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Hello and welcome to pickleball Therapy,

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the podcast dedicated to
your pickleball improvement.

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We are recording on-site
today, outside in the yard.

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It's a beautiful scene.

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If you check it out on YouTube,
you'll see the background here.

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It's just how you're not going to sit
out here when it's a day like today.

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It's a little warm down here in Florida,

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but not too shabby in the
morning anyway in the shade.

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We're going to do it outdoor and
enjoy this beautiful outdoor.

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You may hear some birds in the background.

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You may hear some wind wrestling.

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I think that's consistent with the theme

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of the Pickleball Therapy podcast
because it's all about our minds.

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It's all about being be Zen-like
when we play pickleball.

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That's the idea anyway.

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I'm your host, Tony Roy.

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It's a pleasure to be with you.

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I am the host of this weekly podcast,

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again, dedicated to your pickleball
and in particular, your mind.

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Before we get started today, today,
we're going to be talking about...

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Actually, let me tell you what we're going

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to talk about, and then I'll tell
you a couple of housekeeping notes.

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First of all, we're going to talk about
the third shot drop, and we're going to

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use the third shot drop as a way of
thinking about the

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process of becoming as good of a
pickleball player as we want, right?

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In other words, the idea that as we

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improve, as we get better, there are
certain things that we're going to want to

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focus on, and certain things that perhaps
are not as important to our development.

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Not an important, that's not
the right phrase, as you'll see.

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More in terms of the order of things.

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It's a car and a horse situation, and

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we're going to use a third
shot drop as our focus on that.

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Then the RIF, I'm going to share with you
a recent interview, some words from a

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recent interview that Roger Federer gave,
one of the all-time greats in tennis,

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talked about his success as a player,
but also framing it in a better way.

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I think it really helped us as players.

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We'll talk about that in the RIF.

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Before we get into that, a shout out.

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I appreciate the reviews.

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If you listen to the podcast, you already
know that we always ask you to rate and

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review the podcast if you can, because
it helps us reach a lot of players.

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In fact, perhaps you found the podcast

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because you went to a podcast
platform and you typed in Pickleball or

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pickleball podcast, and you
were shown this is one option.

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That happens because It's the
algorithm, we don't control that.

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The algorithm likes ratings and reviews.

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If you can do that, that would
really help us reach other players.

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This comes from Sisipho, is the name on

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the review, back from About a month
or so ago, a month ago, May '22.

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Pickleball Therapy has made a tremendous
difference for me with my game.

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I listen to it every week, and often we'll

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relisten to certain podcasts when driving
to my pickleball courts to help

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to mentally prepare for my Tony is clear,
concise, and has a no-nonsense way to

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tackle topics related to
the game of pickleball.

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I've recently joined the pickleball system

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this past March, and I'm attending the
better pickleball camp in New York City.

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As I write this, my game is improving
all around, and I am a believer.

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I appreciate the review and appreciate the

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A shout out for other teaching
tools, the system in the camps.

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We do what we do because we want to try

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and help as many pickleball
players as possible.

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It's always great to hear
that it's having an impact.

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So thank you very much for that rating.

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As As we dive into the substance of the

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podcast, actually, I meant to say, if you
throw out a rating, I will do my best to

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share it from time to
time with a shoutout.

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So leave us a rating, and I will
share it with you in a future podcast.

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As we Coming to the podcast, be
on the look out for the summit.

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We have the summit coming up

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in a few weeks, and it's
exciting, really exciting summit.

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The presentations are going to be amazing.

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The list of presenters is awesome.

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The topics covered are really excellent.

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They're really going to help your game.

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Plus, it's just a fun,
exciting, pickleball event.

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It's all online, so you
can attend from anywhere.

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You do need a ticket, so you'll
need to register for the event.

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The tickets are free.

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If you do want to take it a step further,
we have an all-access pass you can

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purchase as part of the summit,
but that is entirely your choice.

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So not a prerequisite to attending the

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summit, only if you want more from the
summit, including the journals library.

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If you're on an email list,
you'll find out more about it.

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If you're not on an email list,
I don't know what to say.

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But get on the email list, but
also you go to thepickleballsummit.

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Com, and find out more information
there about the summit.

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All right, let's dive
into this third shot drop.

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And really what I want to tackle is I want
to tackle the idea of overwhelm, of

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potentially be getting
overwhelmed as pickleball players.

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What happens is we want to get better.

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We want to play better.
We want to learn more.

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We want to feel more
confident in our games.

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And so what do we do?

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I'm going to use the third shot drop
because it gives us a very concrete

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concrete area to talk about and to show
you or to hopefully share with you

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some of the pitfalls that can happen
from chasing shots and chasing concepts.

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When we start playing pickleball, we
all hear about the third shot drop.

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It's the paradigm.
It's the shot of our game.

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It's the shot that defines our
game more than anything else.

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We're the only sport that has a
third shot drop that I'm aware of.

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It's us.
It's pickleball.

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We hear about this third shot drop, and so

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So naturally, we hear it's important, and
it is, and I'll explain this in a second,

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a little more as we go through
this, but it is important.

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But we hear about third shot drop.
We hear it's important.

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So what do we do?

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We go running after a third shot drop.

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We're like, Okay, I need to learn
how to hit the third shot drop.

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But here's the thing.

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To use the third shot drop,

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you need a lot more than just
how to hit a third shot drop.

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You need to have shot recognition.

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You need to know about court position.

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You need to know about
angle coverage as a team.

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You need to know how to move, when to

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move, and how to move
as a unit, potentially.

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As a unit, it could mean separately or

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together, but you need to move
in a concerted way as a team.

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There's just a lot more to the third shot
drop than, Okay, I know how to drop it.

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I can drop it.

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There's also some other strategies
unlike drive versus drop.

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There's different types of drops.

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That's the other thing, too, is that when

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we hear about a third shot drop, most
players picture the textbook third shot

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drop where it just goes up and
bounces in the non-volley zone.

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That's a great shot, but you need
to know how to use that shot.

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There's other types of third shot drops

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you can hit that might be more
effective depending on your level.

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This is where I always
embrace the complexity of our sport

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because if our sport was not
complex, then it'd be boring.

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Why am I going to do that again?

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It's no fun, no challenge.

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Pickle has a lot of layers to it,
has a lot of complexities to it.

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The third shot drop is one of those areas,

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where there's a lot of small pieces
that when you put them all together, allow

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you to use a third shot drop
effectively and successfully.

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Anyway, the complexity
is something we embrace.

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The question now is,

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okay, if the third shot drop is important,
shouldn't I go after it?

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I would suggest to you for the vast
majority of players, I'm talking the vast

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majority, I'm going
to be a little conservative here.

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I would go higher, but
let me be conservative.

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Eighty % of players out there

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do not need an effective third shot
drop to play better and to win more.

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Just not necessary.

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For most players out there,

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way more important than learning how to
hit the third shot drop is

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learning to recognize when
they're moving at the wrong time.

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That's the first step.

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Here's the thing, you're
going to need that anyway.

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You're going to need to know how to move

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in order to use that third shot
drop that you want to work on.

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What we suggest is flip it
around, flip the script on it.

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If you want to think about it in terms of
cart and a horse, I mentioned that

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earlier, cart and a horse,
don't put the cart before the horse.

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Meaning, don't put the shot
before the movement.

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Because here's the thing, you need the
movement anyway in order for the third

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shot drop to be successful
or to be effective for you.

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If you learn the movement first instead of
second, you will gain value from it now.

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In other words, you can keep hitting the

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shots the exact same
way you're hitting them.

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But by learning how to move better, you

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will remove some of the downsides to
your shots not being perfect yet.

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Again, you need it anyway, even if you

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have perfect third shot We
actually did a video.

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Well, it made me think about this.
We did a video on the IntuPickle channel.

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You're welcome to check that out.

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I'll look at the title as we go through

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this podcast, and I'll share
it with you in a second.

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But we did a video where basically the
idea was to demonstrate a couple of

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different third shots, and
how they worked in the...

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How they compared, I should say.

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There was one that was the textbook third

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shot that you see it and you go, Oh, my
God, that's a perfect third shot drop.

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How do I get that shot?

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But the team ends up losing the rally

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because their movement
is not correct given the shot.

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They didn't move correctly, and so they

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opened up a gap and they got
attacked, which is shown in the video.

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They're a very good team.

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It's a 3-5 gold medal match at the
US Open, so very good 3-5 players.

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When you're seeing any level at US Open or

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Nationals, those are very good players
at their level, at the top of their level.

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It's a very good team.

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They have that one rally.

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Then the next rally, they have a rally

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where it's not the perfect third
shot drop, but they keep working.

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They keep working the rally, you could

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argue from not a great position, but
from a position that's effective.

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They end up winning the
rally, winning the point.

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They're on the serve team.

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They end up winning the
rally, winning the point.

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Because in that rally, they moved better.

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Their shots were not better.

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Their shots were not as good as
in the first rally that they lost.

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Their shots were not as good, but
their court position was better.

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And so what that

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video was aimed to demonstrate was
the advantage of understanding movement

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over the advantage of hitting
perfect third shot drops.

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I think the difficulty for players is that
it's been so ingrained faint in us that we

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need a third shot drop in order to play
good pickle ball that we lose sight of the

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big picture of
what's going to work for us.

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If you're a system member, you know that

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you're familiar with this terminology, but
this is why we talk all the time about

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framework, about understanding
framework of pickleball.

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Because once you understand the framework,
you can see the game, the bigger picture

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of it, then you're able to
suss out strategies and shots in the order

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that makes sense for where
you're at in the game.

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And generally speaking, for the third shot
drop, again, for 80% plus of players out

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there, it's going to be more beneficial
for you to focus on where you are in the

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court, your court position, more than
the actual shot that you're hitting.

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And the example that...

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Not the example, but I guess it is an

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example that I like to share with players
is, if you're getting smashed with a ball

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early, so remember, let's play this
out a Let's unpack it a little bit.

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You're on the serve side, because you're

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hitting the third shot
from the serve side.

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So your team is.
So you're on the serve side.

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If you are getting smashed with a ball on

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the fourth, so
your team hit the third, and then the

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fourth comes back hot and you're getting
smashed, it is not a problem of the shot.

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It is a problem of your
position on the court.

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It's where you have put your body on the
court that created the possibility of you

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getting smashed with a ball early in a
rally, in this case on the fourth shot.

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And that's something that
you can explore as a player.

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In those, are you in the right place
given the shot that occurred?

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And the tip I'm going to give you is this,
if you want to work on this.

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The most important step here is actually
recognition more than anything else.

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It's first is recognizing

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that you're in the wrong place at the
time you got smashed with the ball.

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If When you get smashed for the ball

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early, so you're eating the plastic, early
in a rally, ask yourself,

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Am I in the right place right now,
given the circumstances?

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And if the answer is no, that's
what you want to focus on.

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That's where you want to spend That's

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where you want to spend
your focus and attention.

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As you work on this, if you're not sure
what to do, stay back on the serve side.

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If you're not sure what to do, stay back

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if you're on the serve and start
recognizing when to move forward.

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If you're certain you should move
forward, by all means, go to it.

241
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But if you're not sure what
to do, I would hang out back.

242
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Because here's the thing, most of your

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partners right now, most of the players
you're playing with an open play and stuff

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like that, are not
going to hit great third shots.

245
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And so guess who's going to eat the ball?

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You, because you're putting
your body in the wrong position.

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So I use this as an example

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of how to figure out the right layering
for the right layering for

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yourself as a player in terms of what
is it appropriate for you to learn now?

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00:13:40,450 --> 00:13:42,920
Then we went into detail on the third

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shot, but this applies to every
other part of the game, too.

252
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,660
I'm working on this, I'm working
on that, I'm working on spins.

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A lot of players can hit

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00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:54,420
10 dinks in a row without missing,
but they're working on their spins.

255
00:13:54,450 --> 00:13:56,340
Not probably a good use of time.

256
00:13:56,370 --> 00:14:02,060
Here's the tricky part of this is,
okay, How do I know what to work on?

257
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,860
How do I know what to work on

258
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in my game if I don't have a
mentor, I don't have a guide?

259
00:14:12,290 --> 00:14:14,600
That's a great question.

260
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,200
That's why we feel so strongly about the
work that we do inside the pickleball

261
00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:23,320
system and the other coaching that we do,
because we are always trying to do our

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best to share with you knowledge that will
help you now, based on where you're at

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00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:34,580
right now, not general statements like,
You need a third shot drop,

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and then you got to go off on your own,
and good luck with that, because you're

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not sure whether it's
right for you right now.

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That's a difficult thing to do in the
abstract without a mentor or without a

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00:14:46,190 --> 00:14:50,980
guide, and that's, again, why we
spend so much time doing what we do.

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00:14:51,010 --> 00:14:54,780
I wish I had more answers for you in
terms of, Here's the automatic for you.

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The only step-by-step program that
I'm aware of is our pickleball system.

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00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:00,520
I'm not trying to sell you the system.

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I'm just telling you facts.

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00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,340
There's no other step-by-step
program that I'm aware of out there.

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If you can find a good local
coach, that's another possibility.

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00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:09,760
If you want to read more about the

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learning process and how to use different
pieces of information or different sources

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00:15:13,470 --> 00:15:19,000
of information out there and some of the
pros and cons, I believe it'll be

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published by the time that this
podcast goes live.

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I'll put a link in the show notes.

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00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:25,520
Otherwise, make sure you're on our email

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00:15:25,550 --> 00:15:31,460
list and you'll get notified when we
put it live in our blog post ecosystem.

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00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,680
The video I promised you,
it's in the In2Pickle channel.

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00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:35,340
It was published.

283
00:15:35,370 --> 00:15:41,180
I'll get the date in a second, but it's
called the Pickleball Third Shot Drop.

284
00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:43,220
You actually need to win.

285
00:15:43,250 --> 00:15:47,320
It's the Thumbnail says, It does
not make sense, but it works.

286
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:48,660
That's a cool thumbnail.

287
00:15:48,690 --> 00:15:51,700
I wish I could come up with
something like that all the time.

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00:15:51,730 --> 00:15:56,440
It went public, actually last
year, November seventh, 2023.

289
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,320
It's been out for a little bit, but you

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00:15:58,350 --> 00:16:02,700
can find that one on the In2Pickle channel
and check that out at your convenience.

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00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,080
We're going to jump into the RIF.

292
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,160
I want to share with you these words from

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00:16:05,190 --> 00:16:08,600
Roger Fedro that I have on
my phone that my co-coach, C.

294
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:09,720
J.
Johnson, shared with me.

295
00:16:09,750 --> 00:16:12,520
I think they're super valuable in terms of

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00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,080
framing ourselves and framing our
expectations more realistically, because

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00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,020
that's the key to avoiding frustration is
to have good expectations when we play.

298
00:16:20,050 --> 00:16:22,360
As we move into the RIF, I want to let you

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00:16:22,390 --> 00:16:25,660
know that we have several
academy courses coming out soon.

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00:16:25,690 --> 00:16:27,920
If you're interested in continuing your

301
00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:31,840
growth as a pickleball player, but aren't
ready to do the system, understand.

302
00:16:31,870 --> 00:16:35,740
The system can seem like
it's a big step, and it is.

303
00:16:35,770 --> 00:16:38,160
It's intended to be, I should say, a big

304
00:16:38,190 --> 00:16:41,900
step because it's
a big move forward for you.

305
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:43,800
The academy offers you more bite size, if

306
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,160
you want to think about that
courses that you can look at.

307
00:16:46,190 --> 00:16:51,080
It also addresses specific areas like
bangers, loggers, things like that.

308
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,520
If you're interested in those
courses, go to our pickleballAcademy.

309
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,860
You can find it at betterpickleball.
Com and just click on Academy.

310
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:57,640
All right, let me jump into the diff here.

311
00:16:57,670 --> 00:17:01,240
Roger Federer, He's really one of
the greatest players of all time.

312
00:17:01,270 --> 00:17:05,420
You can have the debate whether he is the
greatest male tennis player of all time.

313
00:17:05,450 --> 00:17:10,530
That's an open question, but he
certainly is one of the top ones.

314
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,600
He talks about tennis being brutal, and

315
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,500
there's no getting around the fact that
every tournament ends the same way.

316
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,000
This is the interview he gave recently,

317
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,330
which I thought was really
good in terms of state of mind.

318
00:17:23,360 --> 00:17:26,720
One player gets a trophy, every other
player gets back on a plane, stairs out of

319
00:17:26,750 --> 00:17:31,010
the window and thinks, How
the hell did I miss that shot?

320
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,920
Imagine that today, only one of you got a

321
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,600
degree, as he's doing
a commencement speech.

322
00:17:35,630 --> 00:17:42,700
It's basically like this
one survivor concept that we play with.

323
00:17:42,730 --> 00:17:47,660
Then he talks about
In tennis, perfection is impossible.

324
00:17:47,690 --> 00:17:51,240
In the 1,526 singles matches I played in

325
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:54,290
my career, I won almost
80% of those matches.

326
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:55,770
Now I have a question for you.

327
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,810
What percentage of points do you
think I won in those matches?

328
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,620
Then he says, Only 54%.

329
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,320
In other words, even top-rank tennis

330
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,090
players win barely more than
half of the points they play.

331
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:08,040
When you lose every second point on

332
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:09,660
average, you learn not
to dwell on every shot.

333
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,040
You teach yourself to think,
Okay, I double-faulted.

334
00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:13,290
It's only a point.

335
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,040
Okay, I came to the net
and I got past again.

336
00:18:15,070 --> 00:18:16,180
It's only a point.

337
00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:18,160
Even a great shot, an overhead backhand

338
00:18:18,190 --> 00:18:23,500
smash that ends up on ESPN's top 10
playlist, that too is just a point.

339
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,520
Then he talks about life being bigger than

340
00:18:25,550 --> 00:18:30,520
the court, and he talks about a nonprofit
that he started up, and about how he's

341
00:18:30,550 --> 00:18:33,860
helping children with education,
which obviously is fantastic.

342
00:18:33,890 --> 00:18:38,320
But there's three points to this
that I think are helpful to suss out.

343
00:18:38,350 --> 00:18:41,420
One is this idea of winner takes all.

344
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,960
We play pickleball with points,
and no one's trying to change that.

345
00:18:43,990 --> 00:18:46,900
I'm not trying to make it Participation

346
00:18:46,930 --> 00:18:50,420
Trophy sport, that's not
the nature of the sport.

347
00:18:50,450 --> 00:18:56,010
That said, we need to keep in mind the

348
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,680
idea that we're going to win every time,
that we're always going to be the victor

349
00:18:58,710 --> 00:19:02,900
in every That session that we play
and things like that is nonsensical.

350
00:19:02,930 --> 00:19:04,680
If we wanted to keep track of that,

351
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:09,660
there's very few players who can maintain
a more

352
00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:15,160
than 50% winning average all the time if
they're playing at level, because if

353
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:16,520
you're playing at level,
it should be 50/50.

354
00:19:16,550 --> 00:19:18,760
So this idea that I must win to be

355
00:19:18,790 --> 00:19:22,770
successful can be damaging
if we let it get too far.

356
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,240
The second thing is this idea that even

357
00:19:24,270 --> 00:19:27,810
Roger Federer, right, won
54% of the points he played.

358
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,520
So this idea that After every single

359
00:19:30,550 --> 00:19:35,860
rally, I need to analyze
my errors because I lost the rally.

360
00:19:35,890 --> 00:19:37,010
Again, nonsense.

361
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,560
Back to 50/50, right?

362
00:19:38,590 --> 00:19:42,770
It's about a 50% proposition, about
winning or losing if you're at level.

363
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,680
And then the last point is that there's
more to life than just the game.

364
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:49,220
I don't think he's saying

365
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,400
that tennis isn't an integral part of
his life because it has been, obviously.

366
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,010
It allowed him to be where he
is now and things like that.

367
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,080
But it's the same for you.

368
00:19:58,110 --> 00:19:59,660
When you're out there playing

369
00:19:59,690 --> 00:20:04,480
pickleball, the pickleball is a sport that
you play as part of a bigger picture, as a

370
00:20:04,510 --> 00:20:08,460
part of a bigger you, and keeping
that perspective can be way healthier.

371
00:20:08,490 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaking of perspective,
hopefully this book that we've been

372
00:20:12,550 --> 00:20:15,380
working on will be out in
the next couple of months.

373
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,960
I'll try and provide some information in

374
00:20:16,990 --> 00:20:23,290
the next podcast or two about pre-ordering
if you want to pre-order the book.

375
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:24,520
That would be awesome.

376
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,360
It would help us, again, get the
information out to more players.

377
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:29,000
As you can imagine, the book will be very

378
00:20:29,030 --> 00:20:33,010
consistent with the messaging inside
the Pickleball Therapy podcast.

379
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:37,800
Because I'll tell you, when I think about
what we call the three spheres of mental

380
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:42,160
training, perspective is
by far the most important, and that's just

381
00:20:42,190 --> 00:20:45,570
the big picture relationship
that you have with the sport.

382
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,080
I don't know what animals
are, but they're super cool.

383
00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:49,680
They cued up just in time to share some

384
00:20:49,710 --> 00:20:53,770
beautiful background noises with us
for the podcast, so we appreciate that.

385
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,480
As always, if you enjoyed this week's

386
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,160
podcast, please share
it with your friends.

387
00:20:58,190 --> 00:21:01,700
Remember, if you enjoyed the
podcast, they probably will, too.

388
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,240
I hope you have a great week, and I look

389
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,940
forward to seeing you on the next
episode of pickleball Therapy.

390
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:06,200
Till then.