WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.630 --> 00:00:03.450 Alan: There we go local regardless in progress 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:04.350 Mario: Huh? 00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:07.020 all right, We'll have to, I'll have to figure that out. 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:07.560 Alan: Start again. 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:09.160 So when you. 00:00:09.248 --> 00:00:13.838 implement Paddle's checkout process, there's two main options. 00:00:13.838 --> 00:00:17.888 First, you can either do a, a product, which is like a, you know, delivering a 00:00:17.888 --> 00:00:21.625 license or a piece of software URL or, something or a subscription service. 00:00:21.655 --> 00:00:26.785 And then when you do subscription, you can you create a catalog of subscription. 00:00:26.885 --> 00:00:31.661 Which each one becomes a different Paddle like service that you get the ID for. 00:00:31.661 --> 00:00:35.441 And so you can match things up and, you know, handle restrictions or limitations 00:00:35.441 --> 00:00:39.163 on your end so that you can then set a. 00:00:39.169 --> 00:00:43.162 A price for each of you can either just say one price in US and then 00:00:43.172 --> 00:00:47.392 US dollar, and then, you know, auto localize that, or you can set specific 00:00:47.392 --> 00:00:51.652 prices for like me, for instance, for Japan, I want a round number in Yen. 00:00:51.952 --> 00:00:54.162 So I override the the. 00:00:54.187 --> 00:00:58.177 Price to be something around number that matches kind of with the dollar. 00:00:58.228 --> 00:01:02.068 And then when you do the, to actually implement the checkout itself 00:01:02.068 --> 00:01:05.467 on your app, you have there's, there's two things you have to do. 00:01:05.467 --> 00:01:09.082 First of all, there's the actual purchase taking the card details and things, 00:01:09.442 --> 00:01:11.786 and then there's the the webhook side. 00:01:11.786 --> 00:01:16.316 So you get a bunch of data back when they start subscribing, or you can 00:01:16.466 --> 00:01:18.738 choose which webhook events to change. 00:01:18.738 --> 00:01:23.349 So if they like, if a billing payment has completed our payments failed, or 00:01:23.349 --> 00:01:25.539 if they've changed their email address. 00:01:25.539 --> 00:01:30.286 So they've canceled or any, all of these things are if a card 00:01:30.336 --> 00:01:31.806 subscription failed, things like that. 00:01:31.806 --> 00:01:34.636 So you can choose all of these webhooks. 00:01:34.656 --> 00:01:38.475 And so you get like a you know, payload back and there's a simulator. 00:01:38.475 --> 00:01:40.365 So you can simulate all of these within there. 00:01:40.395 --> 00:01:44.175 So to get to that point, you have to actually collect the payment details. 00:01:44.235 --> 00:01:45.495 So there's two options. 00:01:45.495 --> 00:01:48.411 There's either a a JavaScript one, which does an overlay or there's 00:01:48.411 --> 00:01:51.531 an inline one, which effectively gives you a, a customizable. 00:01:51.551 --> 00:01:54.045 form, which is like on a separate page. 00:01:54.345 --> 00:01:58.949 So to make it just simple and less work doing the I'm just 00:01:58.949 --> 00:02:00.369 doing the JavaScript overlay one. 00:02:00.369 --> 00:02:04.256 So it just produces like a a modal on top of your page and 00:02:04.256 --> 00:02:05.786 it just works really easily. 00:02:05.850 --> 00:02:07.560 Getting that bit is fine. 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:12.872 I'm just having to now deal with all of the different webhook Things that matter. 00:02:12.902 --> 00:02:13.142 Right. 00:02:13.172 --> 00:02:16.719 So a lot of them I'm like, I don't care if they're if they for instance 00:02:16.749 --> 00:02:17.979 change their address or something. 00:02:19.374 --> 00:02:23.334 That doesn't matter to me, but if they cancel subscription, that matters to me. 00:02:23.514 --> 00:02:28.794 Or even when a payment if a payment fails, do I tell them in my UI, they'll probably 00:02:28.794 --> 00:02:33.774 get an email from Paddle anyway, but also I should probably tell them in my UI also. 00:02:33.774 --> 00:02:34.074 Right. 00:02:34.074 --> 00:02:35.420 So how do I update that? 00:02:35.420 --> 00:02:36.260 So that'd be the. 00:02:36.990 --> 00:02:41.130 The whole model locally in your applications suddenly expands a 00:02:41.130 --> 00:02:44.910 bit because it's like, well, what different states do I need to show? 00:02:45.002 --> 00:02:48.422 You know, I showed them that last billing data and then next billing date. 00:02:48.455 --> 00:02:51.350 So, you know, if I tell them, you know, your active subscription, but 00:02:51.350 --> 00:02:53.430 you'll be next charged next Tuesday. 00:02:53.503 --> 00:02:57.373 It, it's just another thing to take care of and to show. 00:02:57.433 --> 00:03:01.093 And so it's takes a little bit it getting it working. 00:03:01.898 --> 00:03:06.068 Paid and it's you get the thing back and you can do something different, 00:03:06.068 --> 00:03:09.698 you know, increase the number of users or whatever that is easy. 00:03:10.058 --> 00:03:14.978 And then there's just all of these like extra bits, which it's kind of 00:03:14.978 --> 00:03:17.897 one of those that there's there's there's the obvious things like 00:03:18.137 --> 00:03:21.137 you need to store a cancel URL. 00:03:21.246 --> 00:03:24.696 So if they want to cancel, they have to go to Paddle associate 00:03:24.696 --> 00:03:25.986 you, they give you a URL. 00:03:27.141 --> 00:03:27.801 They click on that. 00:03:27.801 --> 00:03:31.941 They get redirected to Paddle where they canceled their subscription, or 00:03:31.941 --> 00:03:33.171 if they need to change their billing. 00:03:33.181 --> 00:03:37.071 So you get, they send you these URLs as part of the web of you've got to store 00:03:37.071 --> 00:03:38.291 those and then put those in your eyes. 00:03:38.291 --> 00:03:39.104 So that's like a 00:03:39.104 --> 00:03:41.338 Mario: Are those accounts specific or? 00:03:41.788 --> 00:03:43.288 Alan: so those are account specific. 00:03:43.288 --> 00:03:43.528 Yes. 00:03:43.528 --> 00:03:46.678 So if you're a subscriber to my thing and you want to 00:03:46.678 --> 00:03:48.808 cancel, I store, the cancel URL. 00:03:49.648 --> 00:03:52.018 You click the cancel, I send you there. 00:03:52.032 --> 00:03:52.969 And they cancel on Paddle. 00:03:53.059 --> 00:03:57.957 So it's the I guess it's to do with all of the because they control the billing 00:03:58.017 --> 00:04:00.800 and they are the I was a seller of record. 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:02.060 I forget the actual term of it. 00:04:02.090 --> 00:04:02.330 Right. 00:04:02.424 --> 00:04:02.754 Mario: So. 00:04:02.754 --> 00:04:02.904 yeah. 00:04:02.904 --> 00:04:03.654 That's what it's 00:04:03.994 --> 00:04:04.314 Alan: Yeah. 00:04:04.314 --> 00:04:09.539 So, because I don't know anything about the the, the users details 00:04:09.569 --> 00:04:13.409 effectively, but they send me their email address as part of the payload. 00:04:13.679 --> 00:04:17.129 But apart from that, anything to do with billing, I know nothing about apart 00:04:17.129 --> 00:04:21.593 from they work, they paid for something, they paid this amount for a thing. 00:04:21.612 --> 00:04:26.202 So to, in order to complete that, like canceling out, changing the 00:04:26.316 --> 00:04:28.776 so if they want to upgrade or downgrade their subscription plan, 00:04:28.776 --> 00:04:30.216 also, I have to do the same thing. 00:04:30.771 --> 00:04:33.471 Bounce them back to Paddle in order to do that. 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:36.069 Because I can't know anything about their billing, right? 00:04:36.159 --> 00:04:39.608 So it's there's a little bit of stuff which if you're doing, if 00:04:39.608 --> 00:04:42.218 you're using Stripe, I believe it's a more direct approach way. 00:04:42.218 --> 00:04:45.293 You know, it's like, I bill you, you get this I get this back. 00:04:45.503 --> 00:04:48.863 I do things is it's a direct kind of thing with you and the 00:04:48.923 --> 00:04:50.123 the person buying the thing. 00:04:50.153 --> 00:04:52.363 Whereas Paddle is a little bit of this. 00:04:52.543 --> 00:04:54.988 You know, going around the houses a little bit because I send 00:04:54.988 --> 00:04:56.128 them that they changed it there. 00:04:56.128 --> 00:04:57.038 I get to web put back. 00:04:57.072 --> 00:04:58.482 And then they come back to me. 00:04:58.902 --> 00:05:02.652 So there's, there's a little bit of more of a round trip involved, 00:05:02.682 --> 00:05:04.183 but it's straightforward enough. 00:05:04.213 --> 00:05:05.173 I mean, it's easy enough. 00:05:05.173 --> 00:05:09.223 And I say, I think it's worth doing for this stage just because I don't have to 00:05:09.223 --> 00:05:11.015 then worry about the whole tax thing. 00:05:11.038 --> 00:05:14.238 Mario: How are you finding their API, their documentation? 00:05:14.298 --> 00:05:14.878 Alan: It's fine. 00:05:15.002 --> 00:05:15.632 I mean, it's. 00:05:16.587 --> 00:05:19.287 There's a few annoyances that you have to kind of read 00:05:19.287 --> 00:05:20.397 between the lines a little bit. 00:05:20.427 --> 00:05:25.820 And the biggest annoyance is that there Using API docs should not be a single 00:05:25.820 --> 00:05:31.370 page web, just make it static, HTML document that I can copy and paste from. 00:05:31.438 --> 00:05:35.539 So you can't co copy and paste from their API document it 00:05:35.599 --> 00:05:37.009 as in you can't select text. 00:05:37.072 --> 00:05:42.062 And, and I'm like, okay, you've given me a webhook within your documentation. 00:05:42.342 --> 00:05:46.552 with keys tokenized keywords that I'm supposed to check on yet. 00:05:46.552 --> 00:05:52.072 I can't copy and paste that keyword and it's like, it's really annoying stuff. 00:05:52.282 --> 00:05:52.792 I just wish 00:05:52.792 --> 00:05:53.202 Mario: oh yeah. 00:05:53.202 --> 00:05:53.502 Yeah. 00:05:53.832 --> 00:05:58.985 Alan: this is where my you know, get kind of annoyed with single page web apps 00:05:59.005 --> 00:06:00.535 when there really isn't any need for it. 00:06:00.535 --> 00:06:02.095 It's a HTML document. 00:06:02.095 --> 00:06:03.505 It's a text page. 00:06:03.750 --> 00:06:04.320 Mario: Yeah. 00:06:04.350 --> 00:06:07.500 It's it's yeah, it's just it's documentation. 00:06:07.530 --> 00:06:09.510 It should be just plain HTML. 00:06:10.200 --> 00:06:10.440 Alan: Yeah. 00:06:10.950 --> 00:06:13.020 So th there's there's little frustrations like that. 00:06:13.050 --> 00:06:17.001 And it does feel like it feels like the certain areas that where 00:06:17.041 --> 00:06:20.031 obviously, I guess it's, so I don't always that a smaller company. 00:06:20.031 --> 00:06:20.541 I don't know. 00:06:20.541 --> 00:06:23.541 They seem to be reasonably big, but I guess, compared to 00:06:23.541 --> 00:06:24.934 Stripe, anything small, right. 00:06:24.973 --> 00:06:26.743 That does seem bits, which. 00:06:26.993 --> 00:06:30.323 They're finished, but they don't feel fully fleshed out. 00:06:30.593 --> 00:06:30.863 Yeah. 00:06:30.933 --> 00:06:33.383 It feels like, you know, there's still lots of things they're 00:06:33.383 --> 00:06:34.409 doing they haven't done yet. 00:06:34.438 --> 00:06:37.078 And there's bits, which is like, this doesn't seem clear and obviously 00:06:37.078 --> 00:06:41.040 there's a there's a lack of Scale of support in terms of ecosystem. 00:06:41.050 --> 00:06:45.630 So like for instance, those, there's no library for Alexa for doing it, 00:06:45.660 --> 00:06:47.100 but I mean, it's simply enough, right? 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:51.884 I mean, it's, it's me sending a you know, a payload to get some JavaScript 00:06:51.884 --> 00:06:56.504 to do something, and it's receiving a webhook that I have to verify the 00:06:56.504 --> 00:06:58.874 signature with just usual crypto stuff. 00:06:58.932 --> 00:07:03.358 So it's simple enough, but also you're kind of on your own with regards to. 00:07:04.363 --> 00:07:07.273 There's the data build a subscription service around it. 00:07:07.273 --> 00:07:08.737 So it's but it's fine. 00:07:08.767 --> 00:07:11.826 I mean, again, the, the convenience of once it's done, 00:07:11.856 --> 00:07:13.236 I won't have to think about it. 00:07:13.236 --> 00:07:13.476 Right. 00:07:13.476 --> 00:07:16.029 So and you know, even if I was doing this with Stripe, I'd 00:07:16.029 --> 00:07:17.529 still have the same kind of. 00:07:18.444 --> 00:07:22.194 Things with regards to, you know, messaging in the billing section and 00:07:22.194 --> 00:07:25.704 you know, when, how do you cancel and how do you, it's all gotta be that, 00:07:25.824 --> 00:07:27.684 and this is slightly easier, I guess. 00:07:27.744 --> 00:07:29.004 So it's fine. 00:07:29.154 --> 00:07:29.424 Yeah. 00:07:29.514 --> 00:07:33.384 I, no, no real noise is just something to kind of work through it. 00:07:34.284 --> 00:07:36.084 Mario: Yeah, I've been thinking about it. 00:07:36.084 --> 00:07:40.136 And I think I'll follow you in trying out Paddle it's. 00:07:41.276 --> 00:07:45.510 It's gonna save a lot of headaches with you know, taxes and all that stuff. 00:07:45.820 --> 00:07:48.730 Alan: They also have a metered option as well. 00:07:48.730 --> 00:07:52.798 I believe I didn't look into it because it's I'm not doing it, but if you're doing 00:07:53.068 --> 00:07:56.994 like you number of minutes or something like that I believe you can do that. 00:07:56.994 --> 00:08:00.744 So if I was to move to like per seat seating, I think I can probably 00:08:00.984 --> 00:08:02.314 implement it using that as well. 00:08:02.314 --> 00:08:05.269 But I'm not going to do that again for the first version. 00:08:05.269 --> 00:08:06.499 I'm just going to go with a flat. 00:08:06.525 --> 00:08:13.425 I'm think I'm going to do like two or three levels, like up to 10 members up to 00:08:13.425 --> 00:08:17.895 20, and then on limited or, you know, to a few hundred or something, just to make 00:08:17.895 --> 00:08:22.180 it clear there's different levels and then to can get a feeling for whether I'm in 00:08:22.180 --> 00:08:26.104 the right ballpark, just to kind of get some idea of how it's how people use it. 00:08:26.775 --> 00:08:27.705 Mario: Right, right. 00:08:27.752 --> 00:08:30.782 Alan: Again, going for a per seat billing at this stage feels like 00:08:31.112 --> 00:08:33.092 adding more complications than I need. 00:08:34.785 --> 00:08:38.835 So the other big thing is I've been doing the 500 startups academy 00:08:38.895 --> 00:08:40.275 thing, founder academy thing. 00:08:40.365 --> 00:08:40.635 So, 00:08:40.635 --> 00:08:41.355 Mario: Oh, nice. 00:08:41.685 --> 00:08:42.465 How's that going? 00:08:42.487 --> 00:08:45.877 Alan: Yeah, so it's kind of interesting as I am, there's two 00:08:46.297 --> 00:08:47.737 kind of main components to it. 00:08:47.737 --> 00:08:52.908 There's so it's a four week course bank And there's 50 companies. 00:08:52.977 --> 00:08:54.747 Like half of them are in Japan. 00:08:54.777 --> 00:08:56.382 The other half are dotted around the world. 00:08:56.412 --> 00:08:58.662 Quite a lot around Asia, a few in Europe. 00:08:59.442 --> 00:09:01.688 And so there's a weekly. 00:09:01.690 --> 00:09:03.970 Like video course on a particular topic. 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:08.856 And then at the end of that week they have a effectively, a networking session 00:09:08.946 --> 00:09:13.806 and a, an AMA with somebody either that was teaching the cost of the video 00:09:13.806 --> 00:09:18.396 course, or it, that, that related to that they also work in that field. 00:09:18.444 --> 00:09:20.424 So for instance, this week's was like SEO. 00:09:20.434 --> 00:09:24.441 Last week's was sales and marketing the previous week was. 00:09:24.555 --> 00:09:29.145 Like growth, experiments and metrics and how to add like what metrics to think 00:09:29.145 --> 00:09:31.065 about and how to measure them and stuff. 00:09:31.156 --> 00:09:32.836 So they've all been very there. 00:09:33.046 --> 00:09:37.403 The SEO one probably is a little bit Well, I can't, I guess it's still kind 00:09:37.403 --> 00:09:41.273 of relevant, but I'm not in a position to do much with that right now, apart 00:09:41.273 --> 00:09:45.714 from, you know, get my first version of the landing page up a newer version of 00:09:45.714 --> 00:09:49.679 my landing page up, and then start to think about how I can work with that, 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:53.901 to, to grow content and things, to to improve the SEO of both the site and 00:09:53.901 --> 00:09:57.011 all of the content I want to produce. 00:09:57.011 --> 00:10:02.573 but the the previous week about like both sales in terms of segmenting 00:10:02.573 --> 00:10:07.256 gear, potential users and how to target different users and the 00:10:07.256 --> 00:10:08.726 value of different types of users. 00:10:08.726 --> 00:10:13.946 So more than anything, I mean, this is none of it is stuff that you couldn't, or 00:10:13.976 --> 00:10:17.056 haven't already learned about either from, 00:10:17.726 --> 00:10:21.656 reading stuff on the web or reading, you know, all of the startup 00:10:21.656 --> 00:10:25.196 books that you've probably got the same as me or just YouTube. 00:10:25.226 --> 00:10:29.276 I mean, a lot of the same people have done very either the same people or 00:10:29.786 --> 00:10:31.826 other experts on this area have done. 00:10:31.856 --> 00:10:35.876 You know, you can see YouTube talks about the same kind of topics. 00:10:36.506 --> 00:10:38.126 So the data, the information is out there. 00:10:38.126 --> 00:10:40.337 It's nothing radically new. 00:10:40.337 --> 00:10:45.812 But effectively somebody's sitting you down and say, The spelling it out and 00:10:45.812 --> 00:10:51.212 then saying, now do some of this, like, you know, there's exercises going through 00:10:51.212 --> 00:10:56.172 it, like you know, working out like your segments of your users, and then having 00:10:56.172 --> 00:10:59.832 an AMA session with someone who is an expert on this and being able to, you 00:10:59.832 --> 00:11:01.777 know, it's, it's like a 90 minute session. 00:11:01.791 --> 00:11:05.811 Basically them going through the user at the audience questions. 00:11:05.811 --> 00:11:06.051 Right. 00:11:06.291 --> 00:11:07.881 So it it's very valuable. 00:11:07.911 --> 00:11:08.811 It's been really valuable. 00:11:08.811 --> 00:11:13.524 And just in terms of getting you to do the work, which you've probably put off. 00:11:14.088 --> 00:11:16.829 I mean, even just going through that thing of well, okay. 00:11:16.829 --> 00:11:20.519 Who are the, your target segments and what's the value of each one and why are 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:23.159 you, you know, what kind of problems are you solving for them and how do you talk 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:27.689 to them and how just looking at this and then saying, okay, well, how do you 00:11:27.989 --> 00:11:31.409 measure and analyze and optimize for this 00:11:31.819 --> 00:11:34.289 metric for this, this sector the segment. 00:11:34.499 --> 00:11:38.879 And so just going through that and actually making you write this down 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:40.499 or think about it more than, yeah. 00:11:40.499 --> 00:11:42.209 I kind of know what I'm supposed to do. 00:11:42.209 --> 00:11:42.509 Right. 00:11:42.512 --> 00:11:46.520 Has been incredibly valuable and it's made me a lot more analytic about you know, 00:11:46.520 --> 00:11:50.236 some of the stuff that I was thinking of doing, I'm like I need to, you know, 00:11:50.436 --> 00:11:51.620 reassess some of these things. 00:11:51.620 --> 00:11:53.510 So it's, it's definitely been valuable. 00:11:53.510 --> 00:11:54.960 I mean, absolutely been valuable. 00:11:54.960 --> 00:12:00.786 And just the, some of the DMA sessions, you know, these people are, you know, 00:12:00.786 --> 00:12:05.075 they both either work at 500 as mentors or they're, you know, related to 00:12:05.075 --> 00:12:07.398 the, the 500 in the kind of network. 00:12:07.398 --> 00:12:07.958 Yeah, just 00:12:08.298 --> 00:12:13.006 sitting with them for, you know, 90 minutes on zoom has been just like, yeah. 00:12:13.046 --> 00:12:14.176 It's like knowledge bomb. 00:12:14.806 --> 00:12:19.978 It's been, I mean, I guess the, the thing which has stood out partly for 00:12:19.978 --> 00:12:25.648 me is that you can kind of see the, you can see a pattern in almost like 00:12:25.648 --> 00:12:27.118 the startup factory at work here. 00:12:27.118 --> 00:12:27.368 Right. 00:12:27.410 --> 00:12:32.030 I mean, I guess it's very American centric, obviously, because, you know, 00:12:33.020 --> 00:12:38.480 500 is, and the whole start-up as a, as an industry is very America centric. 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:38.730 Right. 00:12:38.730 --> 00:12:44.714 But you can almost through both of the, both the course material and the sessions, 00:12:44.714 --> 00:12:50.574 the AMA sessions themselves, you can almost see the the recipe for a startup 00:12:51.204 --> 00:12:56.124 as in it's very clear is that you, if you look at any of the bigger or the more. 00:12:57.354 --> 00:12:59.064 Becoming successful startups. 00:12:59.064 --> 00:13:03.024 So not, not necessarily the Stripe or the, you know, the, the, the unicorn 00:13:03.024 --> 00:13:06.759 kind of companies, but the companies which are raising, you know, a 10, 20 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:09.907 million are worried that, you know, just in that stage where they're, 00:13:10.027 --> 00:13:14.085 they're not you know a real startup that they've graduated from that we're 00:13:14.085 --> 00:13:15.855 making a product to, or actually growth. 00:13:17.130 --> 00:13:20.880 And then when you see these courses, you can almost see the recipe that 00:13:20.880 --> 00:13:23.850 they followed to get to the point where they are and what they're 00:13:23.850 --> 00:13:25.480 implementing in order to grow further. 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:30.222 It's, it's a very clear I mean, each case is different, but there's 00:13:30.552 --> 00:13:35.008 that the patent is the same and the, information that they're using to create. 00:13:35.055 --> 00:13:38.955 the instructions to get there follows this pattern perfectly. 00:13:39.935 --> 00:13:44.685 And then, so it's kind of interesting seeing the structure behind it all. 00:13:44.865 --> 00:13:47.625 So it does definitely, I guess, companies that have gone through 00:13:47.625 --> 00:13:51.735 500 or YC or anything they're going through the same course. 00:13:51.745 --> 00:13:52.035 Right. 00:13:52.088 --> 00:13:55.478 And they're implementing the same things in a very similar way, just for the. 00:13:56.228 --> 00:13:57.588 You know, th their own industry. 00:13:57.589 --> 00:13:57.859 Yeah. 00:13:57.859 --> 00:14:00.349 And you can start, certainly see the patterns appearing 00:14:00.969 --> 00:14:01.749 Mario: Well, that's good. 00:14:01.809 --> 00:14:02.589 That's that's. 00:14:02.649 --> 00:14:02.889 That's 00:14:03.259 --> 00:14:06.169 Alan: well, the hope is then that is you can reproduce this, right. 00:14:06.169 --> 00:14:09.229 You know, if it's working for these 10 companies, but those things aren't 00:14:09.229 --> 00:14:12.409 working for those 20, well, you do the things which are working, right. 00:14:12.409 --> 00:14:15.649 So you can obviously see these things must work because these other companies 00:14:15.649 --> 00:14:19.949 that are becoming successful and raising more money on, you know, doing reasonably. 00:14:20.193 --> 00:14:23.923 So yeah, I guess it's a case of like, okay, take what's the things which are 00:14:23.923 --> 00:14:28.153 obviously working for them and, you know, reproduce some of those tactics. 00:14:28.153 --> 00:14:28.423 Right. 00:14:28.453 --> 00:14:28.813 So, 00:14:28.868 --> 00:14:29.738 Mario: yeah, yeah. 00:14:29.743 --> 00:14:30.703 Alan: it's been super interesting. 00:14:30.703 --> 00:14:35.664 So yeah, this, this week is a SEO and next week is oh, I forgot. 00:14:35.726 --> 00:14:37.256 So that's why I that's next week. 00:14:37.256 --> 00:14:38.336 I'd have to think about that next week, 00:14:38.831 --> 00:14:39.151 Mario: Yeah. 00:14:39.151 --> 00:14:39.521 Yeah. 00:14:39.611 --> 00:14:40.001 Yeah. 00:14:40.136 --> 00:14:41.708 Alan: very oh, it's about fundraising. 00:14:41.708 --> 00:14:42.098 Of course. 00:14:42.128 --> 00:14:45.638 It's a, it's about basically pitching and fundraising and stuff like that. 00:14:45.638 --> 00:14:46.401 So again 00:14:46.446 --> 00:14:48.126 Mario: last week, how many weeks is it? 00:14:48.201 --> 00:14:48.801 Alan: it was four weeks. 00:14:49.266 --> 00:14:49.806 Mario: Four weeks. 00:14:49.866 --> 00:14:50.226 Okay. 00:14:50.631 --> 00:14:52.904 Alan: So it definitely interesting. 00:14:52.964 --> 00:14:58.640 And even if I don't, you know, necessarily go looking for money, just knowing the 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:02.750 system and the process and the expectations and what people are 00:15:02.810 --> 00:15:06.410 doing is just helpful and very interesting, useful to know. 00:15:06.410 --> 00:15:06.710 Right. 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:06.950 So. 00:15:07.150 --> 00:15:08.435 Mario: Yeah, for sure. 00:15:08.525 --> 00:15:09.515 Knowledge is power. 00:15:09.515 --> 00:15:13.955 So even, even if you don't go that route, do you, it's always good to know. 00:15:13.955 --> 00:15:14.225 And. 00:15:14.442 --> 00:15:14.742 Yeah. 00:15:14.772 --> 00:15:18.702 Even if you don't get investment in that way you could, channel some of 00:15:18.702 --> 00:15:22.769 that knowledge in your own way to grow your company at the pace that you 00:15:22.769 --> 00:15:27.392 want to grow it, you know, the, it doesn't have to be all VC and all that 00:15:27.497 --> 00:15:27.737 Alan: Right. 00:15:27.737 --> 00:15:27.977 Right. 00:15:27.977 --> 00:15:28.367 Exactly. 00:15:28.367 --> 00:15:32.807 I mean, that's, that's certainly an option and, you know, I it's never say never. 00:15:32.807 --> 00:15:33.047 Right. 00:15:33.077 --> 00:15:36.480 You know, there's there's, there's big advantages to doing that depending on 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:37.920 what the type of company you want to grow. 00:15:37.920 --> 00:15:38.190 Right. 00:15:38.190 --> 00:15:40.146 So it's but again, just knowing. 00:15:40.216 --> 00:15:43.906 Having this kind of knowledge dump on you is, is really valuable. 00:15:43.906 --> 00:15:48.755 So yeah, I'm, I'm really enjoying it and it's, it's definitely been made me think 00:15:48.755 --> 00:15:53.355 a lot about the, some of the strategies or lack of strategies that I've been doing. 00:15:53.384 --> 00:15:58.904 And just how you, you can almost, you know, obviously it's, it's not 00:15:58.904 --> 00:16:00.814 that simple, but you can almost. 00:16:01.289 --> 00:16:06.401 Be more strategic about what and how and who you are talking. 00:16:06.486 --> 00:16:10.182 So, I mean, I guess this is a common problem with you know, indie makers in 00:16:10.182 --> 00:16:14.172 general, as we build what interests us or what we see a small niche for rather than 00:16:14.222 --> 00:16:20.143 the big picture of like you know, looking at where exactly the valuable markets are. 00:16:20.162 --> 00:16:23.062 So but again, it doesn't, you don't have to necessarily do 00:16:23.062 --> 00:16:24.102 exactly the same, but just. 00:16:24.967 --> 00:16:29.467 Keeping these things in mind and making, using the thing, which 00:16:29.467 --> 00:16:32.527 you've, which are relevant to what you're doing is incredibly valuable. 00:16:32.707 --> 00:16:32.917 So, 00:16:33.147 --> 00:16:33.537 Mario: yeah. 00:16:33.537 --> 00:16:34.287 That's awesome. 00:16:34.419 --> 00:16:38.179 Well hopefully it, you sounds like you're, you're getting a lot of 00:16:38.179 --> 00:16:39.499 out of this what is it called? 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:40.069 Course? 00:16:40.099 --> 00:16:40.359 It's 00:16:40.389 --> 00:16:40.779 Alan: Yeah. 00:16:40.809 --> 00:16:43.344 It's a, is it 500 founders academy? 00:16:43.375 --> 00:16:44.125 500 Kobe. 00:16:44.125 --> 00:16:45.697 So yeah, Kobe city are basically. 00:16:46.587 --> 00:16:47.397 Supporting it. 00:16:47.457 --> 00:16:51.177 So there's a bunch of, you know, networking and mentoring that they 00:16:51.177 --> 00:16:52.857 are arranging as well as like a. 00:16:53.832 --> 00:16:54.942 Together with them. 00:16:55.002 --> 00:16:58.842 So, so kind of a joint venture between 500 and Kobe, so 00:16:59.587 --> 00:17:00.007 Mario: Nice. 00:17:00.192 --> 00:17:02.412 Alan: So I had, I'll have an excuse to go to Kobe city. 00:17:02.478 --> 00:17:04.248 I've never, never been to that area. 00:17:04.913 --> 00:17:05.363 Mario: There you go. 00:17:05.568 --> 00:17:07.248 Alan: yeah, exactly what that looks like. 00:17:07.248 --> 00:17:12.344 They have some fantastic so similar to my city Fukoaka they are running a you 00:17:12.344 --> 00:17:16.049 know, with the goal to, to encourage startups and new They have a startup 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:20.593 visa system and a like a court that the city like encourages and supports 00:17:20.653 --> 00:17:22.273 small businesses in various ways. 00:17:22.273 --> 00:17:23.923 Like they provide this startup hub. 00:17:23.999 --> 00:17:26.980 So they've got you know, in the same way we've got an old elementary 00:17:26.980 --> 00:17:30.160 school that they've revamped and it's now our startup center. 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.100 I have like a co-working space there and things have subsidized 00:17:33.100 --> 00:17:34.330 offices, Kobe doing the same, but. 00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:35.950 Brand new fancy building. 00:17:35.950 --> 00:17:38.920 So we've got like a cool old historic building. 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:43.873 They've got a brand new fancy office, so you see a different type ticket, 00:17:44.113 --> 00:17:46.629 but I mean, they, they also help you. 00:17:46.659 --> 00:17:51.295 If you're a foreigner and wants to start a company in Japan start a startup, 00:17:51.315 --> 00:17:56.314 then they can, they help arrange you can get a visa to start a company here. 00:17:56.344 --> 00:17:58.144 Even if you don't have like a working visa. 00:17:58.144 --> 00:17:58.354 There's. 00:17:58.919 --> 00:18:00.389 Things that you can do to achieve that. 00:18:00.389 --> 00:18:06.105 So both she be a city in Tokyo Kobe and Fukuoka are running these, these schemes. 00:18:06.105 --> 00:18:08.898 So it's, you know, Japan's got a long way to go in terms of 00:18:08.958 --> 00:18:11.417 entrepreneurship in digital space. 00:18:11.476 --> 00:18:17.626 But they're trying, I mean, it's been really good for me just in terms of, 00:18:18.516 --> 00:18:22.557 helping arrange me you know, contacts within the city mentorships you know, 00:18:22.677 --> 00:18:25.347 things like the coworking space and just that, you know, that there's a 00:18:25.347 --> 00:18:28.527 lot that they try and do to encourage and to support small businesses. 00:18:28.527 --> 00:18:31.377 So, yeah, it's a nice thing to have as good system. 00:18:32.092 --> 00:18:32.632 Mario: That's awesome. 00:18:33.687 --> 00:18:34.137 Yeah. 00:18:35.427 --> 00:18:35.847 Yeah. 00:18:35.997 --> 00:18:40.108 Well good luck with the rest of the course and you're yeah, you're gonna 00:18:40.378 --> 00:18:44.516 it's, like I said, sounds like you're getting a lot of value out of it and yeah, 00:18:45.026 --> 00:18:45.806 Alan: It's been interesting 00:18:45.866 --> 00:18:46.436 Mario: take notes 00:18:46.616 --> 00:18:48.056 Alan: yeah, exactly. 00:18:48.128 --> 00:18:51.944 It's it's been interesting also seeing just the variety of companies, because 00:18:51.944 --> 00:18:56.760 it is a it's a founders academy that they're also 500 are also running a thing 00:18:56.760 --> 00:19:00.114 with IHG city, which is Growth to Japan. 00:19:00.114 --> 00:19:07.344 So if you've got a successful product or company abroad, they're basically running 00:19:07.374 --> 00:19:12.464 a similar kind of cause, but different target at basically bringing your company 00:19:12.464 --> 00:19:17.223 to Japan and how to set up here, how to grow and how to find your audience here. 00:19:18.408 --> 00:19:21.528 As opposed to starting a company, you know, you, you're not in the founding 00:19:21.528 --> 00:19:22.698 stage, you're in the growth stage. 00:19:22.698 --> 00:19:25.248 So that's a much smaller cohort. 00:19:25.248 --> 00:19:26.418 It's like 10 companies. 00:19:26.658 --> 00:19:30.650 Whereas I was at 50 And so it's obviously different target is a slightly longer, 00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:33.372 it's got obviously a very different focus. 00:19:33.382 --> 00:19:35.978 Yeah, so they seem to be running a few of these things and that's I 00:19:35.978 --> 00:19:39.398 think they said they're going to their planter run this founder's academy, 00:19:39.668 --> 00:19:41.108 like twice a year or something. 00:19:41.108 --> 00:19:42.188 And the growth one, I think that. 00:19:42.873 --> 00:19:44.013 Once a year or something. 00:19:44.013 --> 00:19:47.181 So yeah, it's all a super, super interesting. 00:19:47.181 --> 00:19:47.451 And, 00:19:47.486 --> 00:19:48.236 Mario: That's awesome. 00:19:48.441 --> 00:19:51.474 Alan: opportunity to, to be just acquire knowledge. 00:19:52.099 --> 00:19:52.609 Mario: Yeah. 00:19:52.764 --> 00:19:55.644 Alan: got to put it into practice now, which is easier, said than done. 00:19:56.959 --> 00:19:58.069 Mario: This was free, right? 00:19:58.129 --> 00:19:59.269 This, yeah. 00:19:59.354 --> 00:19:59.564 Alan: Yep, 00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:00.959 Mario: That's nice. 00:20:01.424 --> 00:20:01.904 Alan: exactly. 00:20:01.904 --> 00:20:06.344 I mean, obviously it also sets you up in terms of just networking for, you 00:20:06.344 --> 00:20:11.328 know, if I ever decided to try and join another accelerator, there's just so many 00:20:11.383 --> 00:20:14.261 people I've spoke to on that, that you know, the network is expanding, right. 00:20:14.261 --> 00:20:18.370 And just it's super useful to have these contacts and and just say. 00:20:20.315 --> 00:20:20.855 Mario: Cool. 00:20:21.035 --> 00:20:21.815 Very cool. 00:20:22.095 --> 00:20:23.445 Alan: Just going to put into practice now. 00:20:23.705 --> 00:20:23.975 Mario: Yeah. 00:20:25.735 --> 00:20:29.505 So, where are you at in terms of the product and and launching, I 00:20:29.505 --> 00:20:33.315 know you're integrating Paddle, so you're getting ready for opening 00:20:33.315 --> 00:20:35.175 it up for billing and stuff. 00:20:35.183 --> 00:20:37.733 Do you, what are your plans? 00:20:37.762 --> 00:20:42.623 As far as opening it up to the public, open the gates or 00:20:42.653 --> 00:20:43.043 Alan: Yeah. 00:20:43.113 --> 00:20:44.858 As, as I said, there's no reason. 00:20:44.898 --> 00:20:46.958 I mean, the product is. 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.919 This is why I was kind of giving you a crap because it's, there's a 00:20:50.919 --> 00:20:54.579 million things that are currently I see as glaring problems with it. 00:20:54.579 --> 00:20:54.879 Right. 00:20:54.954 --> 00:20:59.004 But at the same time, I also have people using it daily and they finding it useful. 00:20:59.274 --> 00:21:03.654 So amongst those beta testers, it's like, well, if they're finding it useful, 00:21:03.684 --> 00:21:06.234 then other people probably will too. 00:21:06.234 --> 00:21:06.534 Right. 00:21:06.924 --> 00:21:10.923 So I kind of have to get to the point where, you know, I 00:21:10.953 --> 00:21:12.883 stop trying to fiddle with it. 00:21:12.913 --> 00:21:16.303 And a lot of the things I want to do now are bigger things. 00:21:16.374 --> 00:21:20.364 There's lots of smaller things that I can improve, but there's, there's just bigger 00:21:20.364 --> 00:21:22.027 feature sets that I want to work on. 00:21:22.027 --> 00:21:24.316 And if I start working on those 00:21:24.596 --> 00:21:25.886 now I'll never launch. 00:21:25.886 --> 00:21:26.096 Right. 00:21:26.096 --> 00:21:29.516 So it's like, okay, I've got to draw a line in the sand with it's like, 00:21:29.786 --> 00:21:31.496 it's useful to people right now. 00:21:31.526 --> 00:21:36.266 So therefore launch and, you know, I'll go in with a pretty, you know, 00:21:36.416 --> 00:21:37.796 straightforward pricing system. 00:21:37.796 --> 00:21:42.146 So it's like, you know, just it's this and it's VO can use it for, 00:21:42.206 --> 00:21:43.466 you know, 10 say I'm thinking of. 00:21:44.296 --> 00:21:49.096 20 or 10 30 and, you know, hundreds of something like that, just to 00:21:49.096 --> 00:21:52.834 make it an affordable and easy kind of price point, almost like 00:21:52.864 --> 00:21:55.926 a No, no, no real excuse not to. 00:21:55.926 --> 00:21:58.566 If you find it useful not to pay, if you find it useful, right. 00:21:58.647 --> 00:22:04.328 Again, just to, to help understand the users, the how the product fits and 00:22:04.358 --> 00:22:06.398 what to focus on next, things like that. 00:22:06.398 --> 00:22:10.581 So I said, Forcing myself to to get it at the end of the month 00:22:10.671 --> 00:22:12.051 about whether we'll hit that. 00:22:12.081 --> 00:22:15.271 I don't know, but as soon as close to that as possible. 00:22:15.271 --> 00:22:19.584 And then just say I'm going to have a either a two week or a, I think a 00:22:19.584 --> 00:22:24.946 two week free sign up without a credit card and then hit the the paywall. 00:22:25.016 --> 00:22:25.786 I thought about doing. 00:22:26.696 --> 00:22:27.686 Credit card first. 00:22:27.716 --> 00:22:31.196 So that's something Paddle supports as well as you can enable 00:22:31.196 --> 00:22:33.746 a trial period within Paddle. 00:22:34.016 --> 00:22:37.086 So I can basically say like 14 day trial. 00:22:37.086 --> 00:22:39.504 But that way they have to enter the credit card first and then 00:22:39.594 --> 00:22:41.604 on day 15, they get billed. 00:22:41.656 --> 00:22:46.876 But so the other, the other way is you handle the trial and then after 00:22:46.876 --> 00:22:49.786 14 days, I say, you need to pay and they send them to Paddle for billing. 00:22:51.151 --> 00:22:56.012 I can understand both obviously the, you know, the, the internet 00:22:56.012 --> 00:22:59.102 wisdom, conventional wisdom is you take credit card upfront. 00:22:59.192 --> 00:23:02.762 And if you look at anybody on like, you know, MegaMaker, or MicroComp full, 00:23:02.882 --> 00:23:07.033 probably swear by taking credit card data up front and doing the trial and 00:23:07.033 --> 00:23:11.701 then auto bill after two weeks, unless they cancel I feel that I dunno, I just, 00:23:11.701 --> 00:23:14.251 as somebody as a user, I hate that. 00:23:15.661 --> 00:23:18.301 And then I can completely understand the reasons for doing 00:23:18.301 --> 00:23:19.531 it and it makes perfect sense. 00:23:19.531 --> 00:23:22.411 But at the same time, if I can't try out a product without entering 00:23:22.411 --> 00:23:23.641 a credit card, I get kind of. 00:23:23.688 --> 00:23:26.794 Unless it's some, I mean, Transistor, I guess is the one, which was like 00:23:26.824 --> 00:23:30.394 a, I know exactly what that does and if you need it, you pay for it. 00:23:30.694 --> 00:23:34.654 Whereas it feels like this is almost like a, let me understand the product 00:23:34.654 --> 00:23:37.714 and then let me decide if it's, if I'm going to pay for it or not. 00:23:38.134 --> 00:23:38.914 So 00:23:39.020 --> 00:23:40.850 Mario: Yeah, I can, I can see that reasoning. 00:23:40.940 --> 00:23:41.810 That makes sense. 00:23:41.870 --> 00:23:43.775 It depends on the product as well. 00:23:43.816 --> 00:23:48.046 Because yeah, like you said, if it's something that people already know what 00:23:48.046 --> 00:23:53.790 it is and they know what to expect, you know Yeah that I can see how just 00:23:54.330 --> 00:23:58.458 require the credit card and and don't charge it until the trial period ends. 00:23:58.563 --> 00:24:03.309 But in your case, because it's it's it, the user's going, gonna 00:24:03.309 --> 00:24:06.769 want to explore the product and kind of, you know, get to know it. 00:24:06.833 --> 00:24:10.305 Yeah, I think, I think you have, I think that's the right approach. 00:24:10.305 --> 00:24:11.082 Even though Yeah. 00:24:11.082 --> 00:24:13.242 The advice out there is, you know, always. 00:24:14.232 --> 00:24:15.582 You know, don't, don't 00:24:15.682 --> 00:24:15.922 Alan: Yeah. 00:24:17.052 --> 00:24:20.232 Mario: give it away without requiring requiring the credit card, 00:24:20.262 --> 00:24:20.502 Alan: Yeah. 00:24:20.982 --> 00:24:22.782 I mean, you have the same dilemma, right? 00:24:22.806 --> 00:24:26.806 Especially since running, if someone does a call, it costs you money. 00:24:26.806 --> 00:24:27.046 Right. 00:24:27.046 --> 00:24:30.467 You know, from me an additional 10 users it was a bit of server load. 00:24:30.467 --> 00:24:30.647 Right. 00:24:30.647 --> 00:24:31.157 It's nothing. 00:24:31.337 --> 00:24:34.457 Whereas for you, it actually costs you money to have a free user. 00:24:34.457 --> 00:24:34.727 Right. 00:24:35.097 --> 00:24:35.577 Mario: Yeah. 00:24:35.877 --> 00:24:36.177 Yeah. 00:24:36.717 --> 00:24:39.537 Which is one of, which is one of the reasons I've been in this 00:24:39.537 --> 00:24:41.577 private beta mode for a while. 00:24:41.577 --> 00:24:44.577 It's, it's a little too long for my liking. 00:24:44.757 --> 00:24:50.487 I you know, I don't want it to go on forever, but that's one of the reasons, 00:24:50.487 --> 00:24:56.188 you know, there's a cost to running the system and I want to keep it as controlled 00:24:56.188 --> 00:25:01.796 as possible to iron out all the kinks and it's, that fine line between you 00:25:01.796 --> 00:25:06.026 know, spending money on running the system and allowing the user to test 00:25:06.026 --> 00:25:08.027 it and you know, for free, because. 00:25:08.520 --> 00:25:11.741 you know, I feel the same way I, from the user point of 00:25:11.741 --> 00:25:13.841 view, I don't like when I have, 00:25:13.841 --> 00:25:15.401 to put a credit card in, you know, 00:25:15.681 --> 00:25:17.391 Alan: I can understand the reasoning completely. 00:25:17.401 --> 00:25:20.301 And again, in certain situations it kind of makes sense. 00:25:20.301 --> 00:25:22.341 So it's like, well, I know what this is, and I need this thing, 00:25:22.341 --> 00:25:23.059 so I'm going to pay for it. 00:25:23.059 --> 00:25:27.331 But some kind of free trial to just let me really get a feel for it before I 00:25:27.361 --> 00:25:31.487 commit to this in any way, even if it's a free commitment free just entering a 00:25:31.487 --> 00:25:33.497 credit card, feels like I'm not ready yet. 00:25:34.202 --> 00:25:34.712 Mario: Yeah. 00:25:34.772 --> 00:25:35.192 Yeah. 00:25:35.432 --> 00:25:38.192 So how are you going to handle the transition 00:25:38.407 --> 00:25:38.767 Alan: Hmm, 00:25:39.182 --> 00:25:41.162 Mario: end of trial to charging? 00:25:41.527 --> 00:25:42.217 Alan: is a good question. 00:25:42.782 --> 00:25:43.112 Mario: Yeah. 00:25:44.747 --> 00:25:45.077 Alan: Yeah. 00:25:45.077 --> 00:25:51.767 I mean, it's the, the easiest is literally to, so I know who created 00:25:51.827 --> 00:25:54.587 the account, as in, as an account owner, there's a workspace owner 00:25:54.767 --> 00:25:56.357 and then there's team members. 00:25:56.387 --> 00:25:59.177 They, any of those can be admin, but there's one person who is 00:25:59.177 --> 00:26:00.917 the owner and always an admin. 00:26:01.757 --> 00:26:02.807 And so. 00:26:03.802 --> 00:26:07.822 If I hit the paywall, my easiest thing I'm going to do is basically everybody 00:26:07.822 --> 00:26:11.632 else gets a message saying, you need to tell you, you need to tell your 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:13.590 account owner that you need to pay. 00:26:13.890 --> 00:26:18.780 And then the, the owner basically goes to a page that says, choose a billing method. 00:26:18.830 --> 00:26:20.360 That's the, the easiest way. 00:26:20.392 --> 00:26:21.813 I'm not sure if it's the best way. 00:26:21.834 --> 00:26:25.146 It would be nice if people don't lose access to their data. 00:26:25.176 --> 00:26:28.185 So obviously if they so the other way would be. 00:26:28.283 --> 00:26:29.813 You can't check in or something, right? 00:26:30.203 --> 00:26:31.613 So you can't publish a check-in. 00:26:32.033 --> 00:26:35.243 So that would be another way of if people can log in and they can still 00:26:35.243 --> 00:26:37.853 see all the things they've done, but they can't publish anything new, 00:26:38.543 --> 00:26:40.293 Mario: it's effectively read-only mode 00:26:40.313 --> 00:26:42.353 Alan: read only mode right now, it goes into read only mode. 00:26:42.383 --> 00:26:44.723 So that would probably be the better version. 00:26:44.723 --> 00:26:45.653 It's just a bit more work, 00:26:46.458 --> 00:26:46.908 Mario: Yeah. 00:26:46.968 --> 00:26:47.358 Yeah. 00:26:47.538 --> 00:26:50.088 Well, because you have to touch a lot of points in the code 00:26:50.088 --> 00:26:51.888 base to make that happen, right. 00:26:52.338 --> 00:26:55.998 Because every part of the app where they can add something, you would have to 00:26:56.313 --> 00:26:56.793 Alan: Exactly. 00:26:56.943 --> 00:26:59.433 Do I do allow stop comments as well? 00:26:59.433 --> 00:27:01.233 Do I stop like reactions? 00:27:01.296 --> 00:27:03.996 Do I do, can I, do I stop them editing things? 00:27:03.996 --> 00:27:05.676 So right now you can publish a new way. 00:27:05.686 --> 00:27:06.696 Can edit an old one. 00:27:06.696 --> 00:27:09.336 You can add comments, you can react to things and yeah. 00:27:09.366 --> 00:27:12.156 So each one of those things it's like, well, it'd have to go through 00:27:12.246 --> 00:27:14.946 an additional check and I'm like, ah, it seems like a lot of work. 00:27:15.006 --> 00:27:15.366 So 00:27:15.424 --> 00:27:16.404 Mario: Yeah, it is. 00:27:16.874 --> 00:27:21.034 Alan: So the at that's probably what I'll do is that again, I might change 00:27:21.034 --> 00:27:24.124 that late to date, but it's the easiest thing to get me to launch. 00:27:24.124 --> 00:27:24.344 Right. 00:27:24.392 --> 00:27:28.102 A lot of these things, there's a, there's a trade off between the 00:27:28.102 --> 00:27:29.362 amount of work to get it to work. 00:27:29.362 --> 00:27:30.652 And the, is it the best solution? 00:27:30.682 --> 00:27:32.872 Maybe not, but I'll have to revisit that later. 00:27:34.182 --> 00:27:36.840 Mario: you know, as we're talking about this, I'm thinking here I'm 00:27:36.840 --> 00:27:39.976 listening to it and I'm thinking about it and I don't know. 00:27:40.093 --> 00:27:43.273 If you go in that route, right, you don't require the credit card, 00:27:43.423 --> 00:27:44.983 they go through the trial period. 00:27:44.983 --> 00:27:50.173 And when that ends, it's almost like you have to reel them back in and 00:27:50.173 --> 00:27:52.033 have them enter that credit card. 00:27:52.093 --> 00:27:56.653 Whereas if you do that beforehand, now you have it. 00:27:56.653 --> 00:28:01.215 And now at the end of the trial period, well, before the end of the trial you. 00:28:01.628 --> 00:28:04.318 the way that I would approach it as you send a message, right. 00:28:04.328 --> 00:28:07.128 Cause you don't want to surprise them with the credit 00:28:07.173 --> 00:28:08.403 Alan: The panel does this automatically. 00:28:08.403 --> 00:28:08.913 I believe. 00:28:08.966 --> 00:28:11.808 I think I have to check, but yeah, you could just send them a message. 00:28:11.958 --> 00:28:13.758 Just say you're about to be billed for this. 00:28:14.133 --> 00:28:14.553 Mario: Yeah. 00:28:14.583 --> 00:28:17.823 So you're trialing period ended and you're about to this amount is going 00:28:17.823 --> 00:28:20.133 to be charged on next date or whatever. 00:28:20.133 --> 00:28:22.383 So now it's, it's, it's less. 00:28:23.003 --> 00:28:24.023 Alan: Less friction at that point. 00:28:24.038 --> 00:28:27.098 Mario: Friction because you've already got the credit card. 00:28:27.098 --> 00:28:31.178 You don't have to reel them back in and have them go to a form where they are 00:28:31.208 --> 00:28:33.308 going to punch in their credit card. 00:28:34.058 --> 00:28:35.738 So I don't know. 00:28:36.048 --> 00:28:40.878 Alan: know I've struggled with this a lot, because again, the, the problem, as well 00:28:40.878 --> 00:28:45.294 as having a free trial period is that you end up with a lot of churned accounts. 00:28:45.324 --> 00:28:48.984 Like, you know, it's easy to sign up for anything, especially including 00:28:48.984 --> 00:28:50.274 even, you know, bots and stuff. 00:28:50.334 --> 00:28:55.314 And I, I want to minimize the barrier to signing up, but at the same point 00:28:55.314 --> 00:28:56.484 then there's so, you know, you. 00:28:57.729 --> 00:28:57.969 Yeah. 00:28:57.969 --> 00:28:59.979 You open up the potential for abuse, right? 00:29:00.009 --> 00:29:02.239 Because, and it's like 00:29:02.239 --> 00:29:04.833 Mario: And that's, and that's the one thing about requiring the credit 00:29:04.833 --> 00:29:06.663 card that it helps you weed out. 00:29:06.963 --> 00:29:10.323 Those who are not serious about it, those who are really more 00:29:10.323 --> 00:29:12.003 serious about trying your product. 00:29:12.003 --> 00:29:15.543 And they're really curious, they're willing to, put the credit card in. 00:29:15.543 --> 00:29:19.203 And I honestly, now that I think about it, I do feel like that 00:29:19.203 --> 00:29:23.863 where if I have to put the credit card in, I kind of don't like it. 00:29:23.863 --> 00:29:27.453 But if it's a product that I really want to check out. 00:29:27.453 --> 00:29:28.893 And that I'm curious about. 00:29:29.313 --> 00:29:30.873 I don't mind so much. 00:29:30.933 --> 00:29:35.159 I, you know, I know that I'm going to get, especially if I'm told ahead of time, we 00:29:35.159 --> 00:29:39.888 won't bill you, you know, and you know, we will let you know before you before we 00:29:40.043 --> 00:29:43.933 Alan: So another thing to consider is that there's a potential for. 00:29:44.733 --> 00:29:49.713 This as a foray, something that a team might try without getting 00:29:49.863 --> 00:29:51.843 their managers buy in first. 00:29:51.873 --> 00:29:54.783 So for instance, you know, we would like to try this too. 00:29:54.813 --> 00:29:55.413 We try it. 00:29:55.413 --> 00:29:58.413 And then we tell our boss, this is useful for us. 00:29:58.893 --> 00:30:00.213 Can you get, can you pay for this? 00:30:00.453 --> 00:30:05.103 So the moment I can transfer the ownership of the workspace 00:30:05.253 --> 00:30:07.075 to my boss, he pays, it's done. 00:30:07.097 --> 00:30:11.402 The other thing to consider as well as in Japan, Staff 00:30:11.432 --> 00:30:12.932 generally don't have credit cards. 00:30:12.962 --> 00:30:14.658 You don't have an expense card. 00:30:14.691 --> 00:30:19.471 Now every company I've worked for in the UK in the U S is like, you work 00:30:19.471 --> 00:30:21.971 here, here's a card and it's expensed. 00:30:21.991 --> 00:30:23.581 And just make sure you submit your receipts. 00:30:23.581 --> 00:30:23.750 Right. 00:30:23.750 --> 00:30:26.039 But in Japan, generally, that doesn't happen. 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:28.300 Staff don't get like personal credit cards. 00:30:28.306 --> 00:30:33.885 So in fact, it's also a potential problem that Staff can't even get 00:30:33.885 --> 00:30:35.805 stuff, signed it like a manager. 00:30:35.805 --> 00:30:39.457 She might not be able to get sign up for, for product has got 00:30:39.457 --> 00:30:41.447 to go to her manager's manager. 00:30:41.447 --> 00:30:46.106 And then that person will want an invoice and they'll want to pay with a they have 00:30:46.106 --> 00:30:49.406 a paying system here called pay easy, which is like a bank transfer system that 00:30:49.406 --> 00:30:53.998 is done at an ATM And so there's a whole separate billing system because in general 00:30:53.998 --> 00:30:58.438 credit cards are just not that common at companies, especially at small companies. 00:30:58.504 --> 00:31:01.924 So then I've got the, the, the question is, well, in that case, 00:31:01.954 --> 00:31:03.064 it may be, I just split it. 00:31:03.064 --> 00:31:03.814 So Japan, you don't. 00:31:03.814 --> 00:31:04.714 And I'm like, oh God man, 00:31:05.109 --> 00:31:06.459 Mario: No, no, 00:31:06.814 --> 00:31:10.139 Alan: which I did think about for a little while and then like do I do that? 00:31:11.584 --> 00:31:14.464 Mario: no, but that's an excellent point because of the nature. 00:31:14.464 --> 00:31:17.284 Again, the nature of your product, you have. 00:31:17.353 --> 00:31:19.393 It's more for teams, right. 00:31:19.423 --> 00:31:20.563 More team oriented. 00:31:20.563 --> 00:31:22.483 So you have to think about that. 00:31:22.483 --> 00:31:24.053 And that's, that's an excellent point. 00:31:24.433 --> 00:31:27.523 you want to remove that friction because you want people to try it 00:31:27.523 --> 00:31:31.003 out and then they can go to their boss and say, Hey, we love this 00:31:31.003 --> 00:31:32.623 thing and you know, can we get it? 00:31:32.863 --> 00:31:33.193 Alan: Yes, 00:31:33.234 --> 00:31:33.728 Mario: Yeah. 00:31:33.983 --> 00:31:37.583 Alan: I know this is, this has been, I mean, same as, as the pricing has 00:31:37.583 --> 00:31:40.646 been something I've been toying, you know, like going around in my head, 00:31:40.646 --> 00:31:43.573 I've been back and forth on it a hundred times just as like you know, 00:31:43.603 --> 00:31:48.703 can I really like, especially as you said, if it's, if it's small team and 00:31:48.703 --> 00:31:52.113 yeah, we want to try it out, then if we like it, then we tell our boss that, 00:31:52.413 --> 00:31:53.533 you know, we should use this. 00:31:53.533 --> 00:31:55.093 This is useful for us as a team. 00:31:55.093 --> 00:31:55.343 Right. 00:31:55.343 --> 00:31:58.835 And if you'd, they've got to put in their own personal credit card to do that, 00:31:58.865 --> 00:32:02.045 then it's possibly not going to happen. 00:32:02.990 --> 00:32:03.470 Mario: Yeah. 00:32:03.545 --> 00:32:04.865 Alan: more of a chance that's not going to happen. 00:32:04.865 --> 00:32:05.070 Right. 00:32:05.129 --> 00:32:07.729 I mean, the other thing, as well as I could just literally, you know, to 00:32:07.729 --> 00:32:11.879 tackle abuses like 14 days, how long do I keep an account for, if somebody, 00:32:12.989 --> 00:32:14.399 I mean, I've done this with services. 00:32:14.459 --> 00:32:16.705 I sign up for the trial thinking. 00:32:17.575 --> 00:32:18.535 Yeah, I might need it. 00:32:18.715 --> 00:32:22.735 And then 14 days comes and you go, I'm not ready to pay for it yet. 00:32:22.975 --> 00:32:25.585 And then, you know, like three months later, I'm think, right. 00:32:25.585 --> 00:32:26.515 I need to use that thing. 00:32:26.545 --> 00:32:28.915 And I go back and I expect the account to be still be there. 00:32:28.915 --> 00:32:29.155 Right. 00:32:29.845 --> 00:32:30.295 Mario: Yeah. 00:32:30.445 --> 00:32:32.343 Alan: it's not, I'd be like, well I'll do the things. 00:32:32.343 --> 00:32:33.603 I get emails from services. 00:32:33.603 --> 00:32:37.233 And it's like, you haven't used this Bufala account in three years. 00:32:37.233 --> 00:32:38.553 And I'm like, what the hell is that? 00:32:39.693 --> 00:32:40.893 We're going to delete your account. 00:32:40.893 --> 00:32:42.813 And I'm like, fine, because I don't know what the hell this is. 00:32:44.303 --> 00:32:46.763 Mario: I remember That when I created that. 00:32:47.463 --> 00:32:52.083 Alan: That does a complete sidetrack, but a slight annoyance and emails is 00:32:52.113 --> 00:32:56.013 when a startup as cause it's always a startup like generally, you know, 00:32:56.013 --> 00:32:58.871 the bigger companies, if Stripe emails uh, you know what Stripe is, right? 00:32:59.081 --> 00:33:02.481 But if it's some company that emails you and says, oh, we noticed you 00:33:02.481 --> 00:33:04.781 haven't used such a thing, we've added a new feature to do this. 00:33:04.821 --> 00:33:07.841 I'm like, I have no idea what your service is and you're 00:33:07.841 --> 00:33:09.401 talking about this as if I do. 00:33:09.641 --> 00:33:11.801 I tried your product a year ago for. 00:33:12.731 --> 00:33:14.681 An hour, if you're lucky. 00:33:14.951 --> 00:33:18.401 And then they, you know, rather than kind of, it would just take a paragraph 00:33:18.401 --> 00:33:22.631 at the top of the email saying that, you know, I was thinking, you know, 00:33:23.171 --> 00:33:26.351 product X is the thing, which, you know, time-tracking you go, oh, right. 00:33:26.381 --> 00:33:26.951 Oh, it's a thing. 00:33:26.951 --> 00:33:27.191 Right. 00:33:27.671 --> 00:33:31.641 But it, you you'd be surprised at how few companies do that. 00:33:32.171 --> 00:33:33.351 always a massive annoyance. 00:33:34.006 --> 00:33:34.286 Mario: Yeah. 00:33:35.306 --> 00:33:35.756 Yeah. 00:33:35.771 --> 00:33:39.565 I actually need to do that cause I'm going to be sending an email out pretty soon 00:33:39.595 --> 00:33:41.455 about with an update about the product 00:33:41.455 --> 00:33:42.605 Alan: I need to do the same thing, right? 00:33:42.605 --> 00:33:42.785 Yeah. 00:33:42.815 --> 00:33:44.675 I've got an email list of a bunch of people I need to 00:33:44.675 --> 00:33:45.875 tell them it's released and I 00:33:45.875 --> 00:33:46.715 Mario: Yeah. 00:33:46.745 --> 00:33:49.085 And I haven't sent an email in forever. 00:33:49.085 --> 00:33:53.145 I, the only one time I sent an email to some of the people that I was 00:33:53.145 --> 00:33:55.919 onboarding and it's been months, I need to get better at that. 00:33:55.919 --> 00:33:57.599 Alan: So I'll make sure you put a paragraph at the beginning. 00:33:58.239 --> 00:33:58.749 Mario: Yeah. 00:33:58.869 --> 00:33:59.829 Yeah, for sure. 00:33:59.890 --> 00:34:01.300 I need to get better at communicating. 00:34:01.395 --> 00:34:04.275 As we were talking about this, it reminds Me of something I wanted to 00:34:04.275 --> 00:34:08.415 talk to you about, but I think we're going to have to leave it for next time. 00:34:08.540 --> 00:34:08.750 Alan: thanks. 00:34:08.750 --> 00:34:09.200 I think 00:34:09.495 --> 00:34:11.137 Mario: so we'll have another topic. 00:34:11.137 --> 00:34:11.417 to talk. 00:34:11.506 --> 00:34:14.036 And it has to do with wait, what was it again? 00:34:14.080 --> 00:34:14.930 As you were talking to 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:15.900 Alan: chances of remembering. 00:34:15.930 --> 00:34:16.980 And two weeks was zero. 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:18.220 Mario: I know, right. 00:34:18.220 --> 00:34:20.500 I need to add it to my notes for next time. 00:34:20.572 --> 00:34:21.212 Has to do. 00:34:21.212 --> 00:34:22.711 with oh yes. 00:34:22.711 --> 00:34:25.339 Retention time of recordings. 00:34:25.339 --> 00:34:29.399 I need to figure out What I'm going to do about the the whole 00:34:29.399 --> 00:34:31.469 thing of storing files, recordings. 00:34:31.479 --> 00:34:31.929 Alan: not free. 00:34:32.729 --> 00:34:37.701 Mario: And it, you know, if I don't introduce some kind of retention period 00:34:37.701 --> 00:34:42.891 after which, files get purged, then it, it just keeps piling up and increasing costs. 00:34:42.891 --> 00:34:46.511 So I think I have to introduce some kind of the, you know, this 00:34:46.531 --> 00:34:48.631 concept of retention period. 00:34:49.041 --> 00:34:52.361 And for some subscription plans, it would be less. 00:34:52.361 --> 00:34:54.731 Or, you know, the cheaper ones would have less retention period. 00:34:54.731 --> 00:34:59.231 And if you want more, you know, a year or whatever subscription plan costs more 00:34:59.331 --> 00:35:01.221 Alan: again, your billing is slightly complicated. 00:35:01.335 --> 00:35:04.785 Just because yeah, you, well, I mean, there's so many leavers you can 00:35:04.785 --> 00:35:06.405 pull on your billing process, right? 00:35:06.405 --> 00:35:10.485 It's like a retention, the how many recordings, the size and things. 00:35:10.485 --> 00:35:11.775 So, yeah, it's 00:35:12.655 --> 00:35:16.165 Mario: Yeah, I'm trying to, yeah, I'm gonna try to keep it simple, you know? 00:35:16.485 --> 00:35:16.755 Alan: right? 00:35:16.815 --> 00:35:17.235 Yeah. 00:35:17.235 --> 00:35:17.775 You have to. 00:35:17.985 --> 00:35:19.815 Mario: based it on, on, minutes. 00:35:19.815 --> 00:35:20.175 Right. 00:35:20.175 --> 00:35:25.335 It's just packaged minutes and retention period then. 00:35:25.425 --> 00:35:25.965 And that's it. 00:35:26.415 --> 00:35:26.805 Yeah. 00:35:27.165 --> 00:35:29.145 But maybe we can talk about it in more 00:35:29.160 --> 00:35:29.740 Alan: talk about that. 00:35:29.810 --> 00:35:30.270 It'd be good. 00:35:30.330 --> 00:35:31.890 I want to have a think about this as well. 00:35:31.890 --> 00:35:36.510 So, because I come with some opinions because I never have any of that. 00:35:37.031 --> 00:35:37.451 Mario: All right. 00:35:37.451 --> 00:35:37.811 Cool. 00:35:37.841 --> 00:35:38.621 Sounds good. 00:35:38.671 --> 00:35:40.995 All right, so this is probably a good point to wrap it up. 00:35:41.540 --> 00:35:42.080 All right. 00:35:42.080 --> 00:35:42.920 it's been a minute. 00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.204 I think I dunno, I think we might've skipped a week or something, but 00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:48.489 Alan: it's, it's a confusing period of time. 00:35:48.549 --> 00:35:51.039 So weeks make no sense anymore. 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.009 Mario: But We're back. 00:35:53.069 --> 00:35:58.669 and yeah, do this again in a couple of weeks and until then have a great one. 00:35:58.669 --> 00:35:59.916 And I'll talk to you then. 00:36:00.106 --> 00:36:00.526 Alan: Cheers.