345 Fensom
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Kevin Folta: [00:00:00] Hi everybody. And welcome back to this week's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about a very dangerous animal. Now, when we talk about dangerous animals, our minds are always drawn to a few examples of, you know, the surfer that was attacked by the great white shark or maybe someone who is just kind of naive and jogging in the mountains and attacked by a bear or a mountain lion.

And these kinds of cases grab headlines. But silently in the background is a much more insidious. Animal that has a tremendous toll on human health and on human life. And globally, the mosquito is really. Now in the past, on the podcast, we've discussed a number of different remedies from gene drives to transgenic approaches.

And one of the approaches that I find most exciting is the work that's being done by Oxitec. And we've had the month representatives on several times today, we're talking with Meredith Fenson, [00:01:00] she's the head of global public affairs with Oxitec. So welcome to the podcast. 

Meredith Fensom: Thanks for having me back, Kevin.

Yeah, 

Kevin Folta: this is really great. I don't remember off the top of my head, the number of the episode you were on last, but there has been so much happening in this space and so much manufactured controversy around this that I really wanted to have you back to help the listeners understand exactly what this is.

Is it because a lot is being said in social media, as well as the popular press and it's our job to get it right. So thank you very much for joining me. And I guess the best thing to start out with is why bother controlling mosquitoes. 

Meredith Fensom: Well, most mosquitoes are a nuisance, but when mosquitoes aren't spreading disease, it's not necessarily important to control them.

And in fact, in environments where they are native species, it could disrupt the [00:02:00] ecosystem to remove them from that environment. However, when mosquitoes are invasive, And environments, and they are spreading disease to humans and other animals. It is critical to control them. 

Kevin Folta: And right now, if we look at the scope of diseases, which are being spread by mosquitoes, it really surprises me how many there are, and not just in humans, but in animals.

What kind of diseases are being vectored by. 

Meredith Fensom: It is a very long list, but it includes Dean gay, Zika, yellow fever, chicken Gonia, malaria, west Nile fever and something that surprises people is the mosquito that we are targeting in the Florida keys can also spread heartworm including to dogs and cats.

No. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah, that's a really important one [00:03:00] because I just had to give my dog the medicine for this stuff and it cost a fortune. But so I guess the other big question about this is how much of a problem are mosquitoes worldwide. And we, I know malaria, you know, I just don't understand the scope of this.

So could you give me an idea as to how many people are affected by mosquito borne illness every year? 

Meredith Fensom: Mosquitoes are the world's deadliest animal by far. They are, is not a close second. And these mosquito born diseases tell millions of people every year. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah, I guess the other big question then is. How have we controlled them in the past?

I mean, I know that when I was a kid, we used to dance behind the truck. Is it sprayed insecticides, but but you know, how, how, how has mosquito control been administered previously using either chemicals or sterile insects? [00:04:00] 

Meredith Fensom: So the traditional mosquito control tools like, like the, the pesticides, a lot of them are still in use and they've been in use for, for a long time.

They're like the chemical sprays that, that you mentioned. And the, the challenge is that. Those tools over time, they've lost their effectiveness because insects have developed resistance to them. And then some of the more recent techniques like you mentioned, the sterile insect technique that.

That's different from what we are doing that uses things like irradiation or bacteria to essentially disrupt the reproduction of, of these insects so that they are staring. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah. So that was a technique that's been used for a while that you just kind of scramble the [00:05:00] larvae DNA, larval DNA, and some of them turn into adults and because they've had their DNA scrambled, they're still living and they still can make, but they can't reproduce.

And that worked to some degree, but as a hit and miss way of, of, of solving the problem and The other big issue is, you know, in my mind. And maybe you can comment on this too, is that when you're using sprays and using chemistry, you're not only inducing selection of the ones that are immune to those chemicals, but they're also non-specific.

So you affect every insect. I mean, I guess what I'm asking is were those specific for mosquitoes or did they affect all. 

Meredith Fensom: They could impact all, all facts, including the insects that are not meant to be targeted. The beneficial ones like bees or butterflies. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah. So having a mosquito based control is, is, is a good move.

One that's specific to mosquitoes. And when we're talking about [00:06:00] this particular mosquito mosquito, when we say mosquito, this is. What hundreds of different kinds of insects, is there a specific one that is problematic in vectoring? Human does. 

Meredith Fensom: That? Well, there are a number, the, there, there are a number of, of mosquitos species that are especially problematic vectoring human disease.

One is the eighties that chip died. That is the mosquito. We are targeting with our project in the Florida keys. We've been working with that mosquito in Brazil for well over a decade and now have commercial approval there. That is the mosquito, the eighties of chip die. That spreads Zeke. Ding, a chicken Guna, yellow fever Mayaro and also heartworm to, to dogs and cats separately.

There are, there are an awfully species of mosquitoes [00:07:00] that spread malaria, and we have begun to work with those through funding provided by the gates foundation. 

Kevin Folta: The eighties aegypti I mean, it's got aegypti I write in the name. So is this something that is native to the keys or native to Brazil or is this even a new world?

Meredith Fensom: It is, it is invasive throughout the Americas. And really it's invasive in all of, all of the world where, where it survives and really thrives outside of of a small part of, of Africa. 

Kevin Folta: Okay, so this thing doesn't really belong here. So it's not like you're removing something critical from the ecosystems of the keys, by having methods to suppress their numbers.

Meredith Fensom: That's right. It's not meant to be in the environment. And if you re remove it from the environment where it is invasive, you are returning the environment [00:08:00] to its natural state. The interesting thing in the keys is the eighties, Egypt dime makes up just about 4% of the mosquito population there, but it's responsible for virtually all of the mosquito-borne disease transmission to humans.

Kevin Folta: And, you know, I really don't hear much about mosquito-borne transmission, but where have we had significant outbreaks of any of these diseases in the last. 

Meredith Fensom: Unfortunately all over the, the world. And I mean, looking at Florida specifically and talking about the keys, you know, Oxitec was first invited to the Florida keys when there was a Dean gay outbreak in key west, it began in 2009 and continued through 2010 and that outward.

Could not be controlled because this mosquito could not be controlled. And that is when the Florida [00:09:00] keys mosquito control district in invited Oxitec to come and pilot our technology with them. There have been other outbreaks of and the keys sense, including I believe there were about 70 cases in 2020, so about two years ago and then around key Largo.

Kevin Folta: Yeah. And then I'm not anywhere near the keys. I live way too far from the keys, but I guess the, we still do see some of the pushback that you receive for. Trying to solve a problem in the keys. And so could you give us a little sense of the pushback that you've received and maybe a little bit about how the company has tried to manage that through working with the public to help clarify what this technology is.

And isn't 

Meredith Fensom: sure speaking about the keys specifically. There's, there's [00:10:00] really a lot. Of public support locally for this project. Our mosquitoes were on the ballot in a 2016 referendum in, in Monroe county, which covers all of the keys. And in that referendum, 31 out of 33 Monroe county precincts voted in support of our project.

Some of them. Overwhelmingly. So in the 60, 70, 80 plus percent range, which is very unusual in elections and in Florida. And that was a number of years ago, but what we've done since since we received our federal and state approvals and launched our projects there, we have joined the project, sign up on our, on our website for this project keys, mosquito project.com and we've established.

Very lengthy weightless of, of locals up and down the keys who, who want to be involved in the project they [00:11:00] want to host are just add water, mosquito boxes. They want to host the mosquito traps. And we've been, we've been really pleased with the. Support that we have received from, from the community. There, there is, there's a lot of misinformation out there.

There's some criticism. And I mean, one of the criticisms is that Oxitec is somehow not transparent. And I, that is probably the hardest one for me to understand. I mean, you go on our website, we have more than. A hundred peer reviewed publications about our technology going back more than 20 years divided by year.

And then for our project last year in the Florida keys you know, people say, well, you don't have a peer reviewed publication about that yet. And that's true, but peer reviewed publications. Take time and they are by definition. Not [00:12:00] controlled by us. That's, that's one of the reason there's reasons there's so much interest in them because they are fedded by, by third parties.

However, we've run a lengthy. Public educational webinars series for the Florida project. And in last month's webinar, which was our 16th, we spent a lot of time going through the data and the information that we gathered in last year's project. And that is all available. On our Oxitec website on the keys, mosquito project.com website, and also on our YouTube channel, we have both the recording and all of the slides that were presented with, with, with really a lot of data and information about the product.

Kevin Folta: Well, the other big drawback of demanding peer review is that peer review, when you submit a manuscript and that manuscript is published, you now have an implicit obligation to share and [00:13:00] distribute the materials that were used in that study for replication. And I think when you're dealing with proprietary technologies folks.

You know, you can't do that, you know, for obvious reasons. And so nobody really gets too upset when it's a drug or something else that isn't that's being released or that's doing, or any other technology for that matter, an iPhone or whatever. They don't require an iPhone to go through peer review before they can, before they can distribute it for it, say, you know, distributed and nobody really cares, but there's certain technologies.

You know, a little bit concerned about, but I'm really glad that you mentioned these resources. So could you touch on that one more time? It's on it and Oxitec YouTube. 

Meredith Fensom: Yes, we have an OxyTech YouTube channels. There are a lot of videos there. We post all of our public educational webinars there. So the 16 that we've had so far for the Florida project are posted there.

We have other videos giving virtual tour of our projects and our [00:14:00] labs around the world. And then on the website that we. Established for the Florida keys, project keys, mosquito project.com. All of the recordings for that project are available there. And we also post the materials from these different webinars.

So people can take their time to look at the slides afterwards and all of the information that we've presented. 

Kevin Folta: And maybe, you know, maybe you want to answer this, maybe not. So you tell me, but it seems to me that the folks who are involved in the pushback side of this, that they are not keys residents, that these are the typical folks who have always complained about everything.

Now for four decades, that has to do with genetic technologies in the same groups, the same individuals, the same people. Books and running websites and collecting money to push back against biotechnology. So just from everything I've seen from, you know, from my view, it seems like the, the same old [00:15:00] suspects just now that they've lost, the, the argument against crops are turning to other places where the technology is being used.

Just to have a continued something to complain about more than anything. 

Meredith Fensom: I think that's right there, there are a few locals in the keys who are opposed to our project, but it's very few. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah, it's it's, it seems to be, you know, just from my perspective as well that you guys have done a great job with public education, which is such a good cornerstone of this.

It seems like that may be needed in some other places. You I recently learned that this mosquito and its capacity to spread or vector bloodborne disease is now in some new places in the U S so where has it shown up recently? 

Meredith Fensom: That's right. So, whereas the mosquito has been in Florida and some other parts of the U S.

More than two [00:16:00] centuries is a very recent arrival to the state of California where it was first identified just about a decade ago and has now spread to more than 20 counties. 

Kevin Folta: And I guess the real big problem there is when you look at. Like questions like the homeless population in places like LA, where they've had outbreaks of things like or the rodent vector diseases recently, where just because of the high concentration of people outdoors, it kind of is the perfect storm.

If you started to have mosquito vector disease, like Zika or something, like. 

Meredith Fensom: Well, yes. Oxitec was invited to California by more than 10 mosquito control districts in the state, interested in piloting this technology because they know that the eighties Egypt die has established a presence. It is spreading.

And some of [00:17:00] the counties where it is now, the pest pressure of this particular mosquito is, is quite high. So there have not been any disease outbreaks in California from, from this mosquito yet. And the interest is, is in avoiding that, making sure that it does not happen. 

Kevin Folta: So we're speaking with Meredith Fenson, she's the head of global public affairs with Oxitec and we're talking about the mosquito technologies, that limit populations.

This is collaborative talking biotech podcast, and we'll be back in just a moment.

And now we're back on the talking biotech podcast by collabora. And if you haven't tried the free trial of collaborators products, please do a laboratory notebooks that standardize your note taking and your inventory and other ways of maintaining your laboratory with security. Are really critical tools in today's lab environment.

So [00:18:00] to give those things a look, so we're speaking with Meredith fence them, she's the head of global public affairs at Oxitec. And we were speaking about the problem of mosquitoes and where the mosquitoes are spreading and the diseases that they vector along with some of the antiquated techniques that have been used to try to control their numbers.

So the big deal now is. Oxitec is currently been releasing mosquitoes in Florida. You know, this technology is being deployed. And so in the second half of the podcast, I'd really like to focus a little bit on the technology itself, get a rough idea of how it's working, but also, you know, where we're at with respect to mosquito control.

So what, what is the basis of the Oxitec solution in the self-limiting mosquitoes? 

Meredith Fensom: Sure. So where you thing, the mosquitoes against themselves and our technology is meeting based. We [00:19:00] use biology to give our non-binding male mosquitoes, a self-limiting gene. Then when they are released in the wild and mate with the invasive pass females, the female offspring of those encounters cannot survive.

So they are producing males, but that's okay because male mosquitoes do not buy. You've never been bitten by a male mosquito and in pretty short order, those. Friendly males run out of females to meet with and essentially the population crashes. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah. So let's talk about that for a second. So this just is a technology that, where the male mates with the female, the offspring are not viable or doesn't produce females in the next [00:20:00] generation just to get that.

Meredith Fensom: That's right. That's right. No female offspring, just boys. 

Kevin Folta: And then those boys, do they they'll do those males have the capacity to pass on that? Self-limiting gene. 

Meredith Fensom: They do the self-limiting gene continues at half-life. So after about 10 generations, if we stop the releases of our mosquitoes it disappears completely from the environment.

Kevin Folta: So you're introducing a self-limiting gene to the environment. And a lot of critics have said, well, what if this self-limiting gene spreads and all of a sudden beneficial insects and bees and whatever can't reproduce. So how tight is the regulation on that? Self-limiting gene and, and. Maybe I'll add a funny little aside after your answer, 

Meredith Fensom: the regulation.

I mean, as far as regulatory authorities in the United States, you know, our, our path to, to approval for these [00:21:00] pilots was, was very long. It was more than, than 10 years. And one of the really beautiful things about this technology is that it is. Species specific. Our males are meeting with the invasive pest females.

And I mean, these, these eighties that jeopardize these male mosquitoes, they don't, they're not meeting with, with other species or other types of, of, of insects. So one of the great things about it is how. Specific it is. And really there were a lot of advantages for beneficial insects, like bees and butterflies, because it, it does not harm.

Kevin Folta: And that's, that was kind of my point. Exactly. As you don't see this kind of interspecies meeting in, in the mosquito world you know, mosquitoes and butterflies getting together, you don't see that happening. And then the other part of this is that when you have a gene that. Limits the number of females.

It can't [00:22:00] be passed on through the female, right? I mean, you're, you're, you're essentially when, when they have this, it stops the next generation. So this is, you know, we had this whole discussion about, you know, the Terminator gene and crops years ago is that if it was something that stopped the generations, you wouldn't have it being passed on.

And yet people wanted it both ways, you know, fear of this thing, moving through generations yet at the same time. That it was lethal, you know, termination, but the, I guess, what, what are some of the other criticisms that you've seen and what's the best way to respond to them? 

Meredith Fensom: There are a lot of questions about the impact of our technology on the environment and.

Really, that is one of the biggest benefits of this technology. We are targeting invasive species that are spreading disease. So we, we are targeting these, these [00:23:00] species in an environment where they are not supposed to be, and they are causing harm and we are able to target them. Precisely and and really very effectively without having.

Other impacts in the environment. I mean, there, there are no you know, we're not, we're not putting any chemicals in the environment and working in the Florida keys, I, I moved onsite to launch our project there last year. So I was, I was living there through, throughout and the Florida keys are.

Sensitive ecosystem. They are surrounded by a national Marine sanctuary. And one of the things that made me so happy because I've worked with Oxitec technology for more than six years, I'm, I'm a conservationist. That is one of the [00:24:00] appealing things to me about the work that Oxitec is doing. And. It made me really happy last year to see so many of the local beekeepers and butterfly conservationists get on board and really vocally support our, our project.

I mean, I think that is where the truth lies and I dream of seeing that kind of support replicated at the national and global levels. Cause that's one of the real benefits. 

Kevin Folta: So with that in mind, where are the technologies currently being deployed? 

Meredith Fensom: So for mosquitoes, we have just received commercial approval in Brazil.

And, and we began selling our mosquitoes to direct to consumers in Brazil the end of last year. So if you are living in the state of Sao Paulo, you can have our [00:25:00] mosquito at. And a little box and their food delivered to your front door, and you can use this technology at home in your regard. So that, that is a big market for us.

Brazil is because they have such a need for this technology. We're in the United States, we're piloting our eighties chip die mosquito technology and the Florida keys right now. And we have applied to the state regulators in California to also pilot the eighties of zip tie technology there in, in the city of Visalia, it's in the central valley in, in Northern to Larry county.

So, so those are. Mosquitoes. And then were other, were doing other work with other mosquitoes, like the malaria vectors that, that should be out in the field and the. You're too, but we are using the [00:26:00] identical technology for agricultural crop pass. And we're doing quite a bit right now in, in Brazil, for example, with the fall army worm, which is a devastating past, especially of, of corn crops really throughout the world.

Kevin Folta: Yeah, I know that was fall army worm. And also the Diamondback moth where Oxitec projects, right? 

Meredith Fensom: Yes. I mean, there, there's really kind of a long list. The Diamondback moth the pink bollworm the med fly soybean Looper. And in fact, both the pink bollworm and the Diamondback moth we have worked with in the United States.

Kevin Folta: Yeah, I know that the, you know, mosquito are not mosquito. Insect. Pests are tremendously problematic in terms of crop production, especially in places like Africa, where many areas you don't have adequate insect [00:27:00] controls. You can't have a spray plane go over or something, you know, you don't have any means to control it.

Other than, you know, farmers can. Stand outside and watch farming fall, army worm literally take an entire crop out overnight and farmers there with the only thing they have to disperse, the PEs are hitting them with a shirt, blowing a whistle, you know, yelling at them, you know, waving their arms, running through fields.

I mean, this is stuff that we've reported before on science facts and fallacies podcast that you. In places with no insect controls, these huge swarms that you can see on a radar, on a weather radar, that we need more sophisticated ways to be able to help in situations like that. And I'm really glad to hear that Oxitec is starting to target more and more outside of the original, you know, range of mosquito and foreign.

Meredith Fensom: That's great. The technology is, is virtually identical. I mean, we're using the same self-limiting gene [00:28:00] and, and, and you're right. I mean, these, these paths the fall army worm is one example of, of many I mean they're causing real food security issues. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah. So it's really important. Is there any early report about how the mosquito deployments are working?

Like, do you do you have ways of, of measuring populations and saying, okay, in the keys we did this deployment and we know it cuts it down to 1% in, you know, in two weeks and after, you know, a year, well, like what do we know about the efficacy of this? 

Meredith Fensom: So w w we know, we know a lot about it. And in, in Brazil where we've been working the longest and really at scale, I mean, that, that's where we have.

A lot of great data and we've fairly consistently seen that with our mosquito control technology, we can bring down the population of the [00:29:00] invasive eighties, Egypt. I passed by, well, over 90%, usually 94, 95. Plus in, in just about three months. And that is that's, that's significant for the project and the Florida keys.

So you know, we're, we're, we're looking at different things. With last year's pilot and this year's pilot. And last year we wanted to confirm that you know, that our, that our males would emerge from their boxes, that they would mate, with females successfully, that, that they would produce offspring.

And none of those offspring would be female and, and we've confirmed all that. And we got a lot of good information about their flight ratings. And even finding their progeny and cryptic breeding sites. And that's actually a good thing because those are the places that traditional tools have a hard time [00:30:00] reaching.

And I think after this year's project, we'll be able to say more about the suppression of the, of the invasive population there, but you know, it is a small pilot. It's not. I mean, it's not a big project there. 

Kevin Folta: And I guess just to clarify for the listeners, you say their progeny are found in other places, but this is self-limiting.

So you're saying that those are the males that are allowed to survive in subsequent generations and eventually physical. That's 

Meredith Fensom: right. The, the males and their offspring and the way that we know that. So our mosquitoes are, are different from the ones that you would find outside. In, in two ways, one is we give them the self-limiting gene, but the other is that we give them a fluorescent marker so we can track.

All of our mosquitoes and their [00:31:00] progeny and the wild are Florida keys, mosquito control district partners. We're really excited to find a. Th th th the progeny of our males. So these larvae and the male mosquitoes that have the fluorescent marker. So, you know, we know that they are, that they are IRES. But they were very excited to find those in cryptic breeding sites.

Cause that's, that's, that's what you, you want. This is a mosquito that is. Hard to target because of the, because of the places where it lives and breeds. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah. So in a cryptic breeding site might be like a, a tire with water in it, or like a little kid's swimming pool. That's been abandoned, something.

Meredith Fensom: That's right. Or it might be, you know, a flower pot that's sitting under someone's port and gathering water. It might be a bottle cap that's in your driveway. I mean, they can breed in some or [00:32:00] the, you know, larvae can't survive in something that 

Kevin Folta: small. So I guess the last question might be what's next for Oxitec.

And where do you imagine these technologies may be most important going from. 

Meredith Fensom: Well, we want to get these technologies to the communities that need them as quickly as possible, we feel a real sense of urgency and we're looking forward to the future. We're we're ready to make an impact. 

Kevin Folta: So how does social media treat this?

And I frequently see Oxitec coming up in conversations. Not always conversations that are really excited about the technology. 

Meredith Fensom: Right? Well I mean, it, it comes up in both conversations, right? I mean, there are a lot of folks who were really excited about our technology but that there is some opposition to it.

That's. 

Kevin Folta: Yeah. I always see friends of the earth [00:33:00] saying that the OxyTech technology has been detected in natural popular or in I don't want to say natural populations because this is an invasive species, but I think they do say in. Resident populations of mosquitoes, but, but yes, that's why it works.

And so 

Meredith Fensom: that's what they're supposed to 

Kevin Folta: do. Yeah. So it means that things are working exactly as they're supposed to work and that's, but you know, the friends of the earth, other folks, they use this as a nucleus saying, look at how this technology is reaching into these populations of resident mosquitoes.

Yeah. That's exactly what's supposed to happen. And I always remind them of that. And I hope that as others begin to look at and follow Oxitec on social media, you know, follow what's going on, follow the story and, you know, use your knowledge of what this is and what this isn't to gently push back with respect and taking the high road saying, you know, but here's how it really works.

And the good things it can do [00:34:00] for the environment as well as for human public health. So I guess human public health. I don't have anyway. So thank you very much. Meredith Fenson from Oxitec. If people want to learn more, where can they follow Oxitec and can they follow you on social? 

Meredith Fensom: Sure. Our Oxitec website oxitec.com.

I mean, there's a lot of information there are we updated regularly? The Florida keys, mosquito project has its own website, keys, mosquito, project.com. We're we're active on social media. You can find us on Twitter at Oxy tag. LinkedIn and Facebook too. And really those are I think, the best accounts to, to follow for information about our technology.

Yeah. 

Kevin Folta: And, and please do follow those, you know, to the listener, you know, definitely follow those and, and help shape this conversation. You know, we know so much today that people get 75% of their news and [00:35:00] information from social media. We also know that it's replete with false information and it's really important for us to be parts of those conversations.

So when you see them dive in and and, and let's do the right thing here and help a good technology reach the folks that's intended to serve. So I think that's really important. So, you know, Meredith thank you very much for joining me again. I really appreciate you being on and best wishes. Thank you, Kevin.

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