Welcome to the Colour Timer podcast.
I am your host, Vincent Taylor.
This is the podcast where we speak with professionals
who work with colour.
Today, I'm chatting with production designer, Merje Weske,
and art director, Lisa Korpin
from the Emmy nominated series, "The Bear".
You might've heard of that show, right?
With the 2024 Emmys just around the corner,
"The Bear" has a record breaking 23 nominations
in the comedy series,
and that includes the nomination
for Outstanding Production Design.
I'm a teeny bit obsessed
with the design and colour of "The Bear".
And when I started to look into Merje and Lisa's careers,
and I saw their credits,
and saw the shows that they've worked on over the years,
it quickly kind of made sense to me
why I'm so taken by the aesthetic of this incredible show.
So get comfy.
Let's go.
Take your seats because the hourglass is about to turn.
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Explore the craft, creativity,
and science of professionals
who use colour to tell stories.
Welcome to "The Colour Timer" with Vincent Taylor.
(upbeat music)
Hey guys, thank you for joining me.
Hi.
Merje and Lisa, before we do anything else,
congratulations, Emmy nominations coming out
from every direction,
and especially that it's
including production design as well.
So huge congrats, that's fantastic.
Thank you.
It's very, to be honored.
Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
I wanna get into talking about the show specifically,
but before we even go there,
I kinda wanna talk about what you both do
and how that kind of coincides
and sort of backing up quite a lot
and finding out what got you
to the place you are now with your careers.
So Merje, your production designer on "The Bear"
and Lisa, your art director.
So those are the roles in inverted commas.
I mean, your backgrounds are really immense.
So do you wanna just talk a little bit about
how you got to where you are now?
Well, for me, I've been in the business over 20 years.
And started, I have a fine arts backyard.
I did start out like most of the people in the business
starting PA and then you work your way up as a set dresser
and you do props and a little bit of art department
and with experience and knowledge.
And one day you get the opportunity to be a designer.
And I think I was lucky
and hopefully I had talented enough to be here.
Yes, I have sort of the opposite experience.
I had a little bit more of a long and winding road.
And if you would have told me 26 years ago
that I'd be here, I would have said, what is that?
So I think I just sort of kept following different threads.
And at some point I realized that they are related
and they kind of layered on top of each other
and tried to get into the business,
kept trying to get into the business.
This was 2016 when I actually,
I'd been in the design business
and I've been studying photography
but didn't actually get into film and TV
until 2016.
So working with Marie has been amazing
because obviously I can benefit with her,
not just the length of your experience Marie,
but like you said, you've done so many different roles,
which is so amazing to benefit from.
Yeah, and then like the roles
like of a production designer, as an art director,
I mean, do you kind of define those roles specifically
or do they kind of get blurry between the two
and how do they work together?
Well, we definitely, we work together a lot
but I think for more, my role is more like working
with creatives like a director and a D.P.
and then finding the look together
and finding the style and the colors,
all this what we want this film to look like
and what the time periods and all the things.
Like I work with a script very, very closely
but then once the creative part to figure out
what we're gonna be doing,
then Lisa is the one who makes the machine to work.
She will run the construction crew and set designers
and all the people actually will make this.
Also Lisa is hands on helping to design,
many times like, oh my God, like I can't come up with idea
and Lisa will throw like four or five ideas my way
what she works out with her team
and then we can pick and choose from there.
Oh yeah, this could be the final thing.
Like this entire making a TV show, a movie
or anything like this, I feel it's a huge teamwork.
It's not one, it's not a one or two egos
it's everybody is doing the part
and everybody makes it look as good as it comes, yeah.
That thing, sorry, I'll just jump in real quick.
That little thing you said then about,
with Lisa like just throwing out ideas,
is it always a kind of,
and I'm guessing it would vary from project to project
but is it always a safe space
that you can just throw your ideas out?
With Marie it is but with any designer, not necessarily.
It depends and I think it's not just whether a designer
is open to other ideas.
They may get a rapport with someone specific on the team
and really communicate well with them
or it's just sort of design relationships happen.
But even when I'm throwing out ideas,
I'm just not sitting there by myself throwing out ideas.
I'm working with the people on our team
and one idea leads to another idea often.
And sometimes you stick with the first one
and sometimes you end up like 10 ideas down the line
or some sort of hybrid of all of it.
What I try to do is as an art director
what I think I'm hoping to do is that Marie needs space
and time to work out the vision as she was saying
with the directors, the DP, the producers.
And the more that I can help to filter out
some of the noise and the logistical clutter,
of course Marie needs to know what's going on
but as much as I can filter out
so that she can kind of be not so weighed down by that,
that's what my goal is.
Now I do need to come to Marie and ask her for advice
sometimes with sticky situations
and that's just how it is.
But yeah, so that's the goal is to kind of,
it's sort of like the frontline.
You know?
When a project, such an amazing show
and I just adore it.
And actually I should say the
number of times I'm watching it
and this is one of the reasons I really, really,
this is my wife's fault.
Cause she said, you should speak to them
because I'm watching it and all of a sudden I'm going,
what, how, how?
And she's there going, shush, would you shush?
You know, cause there's so many beautiful things
to look at.
But what I want to ask you was
when a project like this or a project of any sort
comes to you, how do you decide that, yeah
this is a project I would like to work on?
For me, it's the most important is the project itself
and then the story, what is this about?
And the script or novel it's based to
then and of course, secondary is people, you know?
Because now I've been in a business long enough
that there are a number of talented people
I would like to work again and again.
But usually it's a project and the meaning of it
and all of that outcome.
Yeah, I'd say the same for me.
You know, I don't, I haven't had the opportunity yet
to work on something where I actually got to read
the script first, but usually I'm talking to, you know
supervising art director or a production designer
who has read parts of it and
sort of respecting their opinion
that it seems like a strong project.
Also does it seem like I'm going to get to make
some cool stuff, you know?
(laughs)
Like I actually, if I were ever to go back
to being in interior architecture,
I think I would really want to be a hospitality designer
but I've never gotten to work on hospitality.
So like for me to do a restaurant was like a dream,
you know, actually.
Do you both know, I know some projects
I've worked on as a colorist and I'm kind of,
I mean, my projects is so much shorter,
but I'm right in there and
sometimes it's not till I see it.
I go, oh, this is really good.
This is really lovely.
And do you know at the time that you're working
on something really, really amazing?
Most of the time I don't, but I'm always
what drives me is the story.
And I usually would 110% into getting it right visually
and doing my research and doing the, yeah,
backgrounds and everything and knowledge
and to get everything right.
So yeah.
I think sometimes when I'm reading it, you know,
I'm like, wow, this could be amazing.
And then sometimes I'm, you know, even surprised further
by what they do visually with it
because I don't know necessarily the frames
or how it's going to be shot and the music
that's going to be with it in the bear.
The music has been huge as well.
This is such a big question.
And when I was thinking about this next question,
I was thinking about a series,
but it's too overwhelming for me.
So just bringing it right back
and just talking about an episode,
where the heck do you start?
Oh, well, I think if it's a TV show
because it's already rolling,
this is a little snowball going down the hill.
So there is already a pre-story
and you know there's going to be after story.
So, but yeah, you start with the script
and you start with the story
and then what the vision director has.
And sometimes I do my mood boards
and then I go to his office and he has his mood boards
and oh, you saw the story this way,
but I saw it that way.
And so we combine it or we talk about it
and things like that.
But we start with a big picture
and then we work down into the tiniest little detail.
Should we have this little blue candle on the set
or yellow candle on the set?
And that's how it, I think, rolls, yeah.
Dream big.
Well, two things.
Yes, I'm breaking down the script
probably in a slightly more pragmatic way than Marie.
Our team is looking for things about the space
that need to be as scripted or objects
or other things that we're gonna need.
But then we're also waiting for Marie
to come and give us those directions
when she has sort of started
to at least get initial direction with the director
so that we can kind of start to
make different design proposals.
Whether, but I try to sort it more in my head by location.
I could see as a designer where you would start
also like by character or like,
what are the spaces or the look and feel of the character?
What are they wearing?
What kind of objects would they have?
And things like that.
But usually we're more like getting scripted directions,
starting our lists and then
waiting for more info from Marie.
Now, obviously one of the really big characters
in the bear is the food,
which is one of my constant like,
oh my God, oh my God.
I just, every time I see a new plate come on and,
but can you talk to me about how that works
with your roles in the show,
with how the food comes into
as a designer and art director?
Actually on this show, I'm also like,
I go and see the food and I'm like, oh my God.
Because we have a just food designer.
Right.
The producer chef who designs all the dishes
and with her and she's with her team is doing research
and finding reference and then finding pictures.
She has like hundreds of cookbooks.
And then we have to draw,
everything is thrown out what this dish would look like.
And then she makes one and then presents that to director.
And then if he likes it, or if that's the way we're going,
then it's gonna be made.
It's also a process pretty much like entire art department.
I think like also that whole department
has grown over the seasons.
And I think this like,
it's finally the size that it needs to be to take on,
you know, the food because it's a whole animal.
They've done a great job and we worked with them
too. I know you had mentioned
interest in the drawings. We worked with them
direction for the drawings. So Marie was talking about
those reference images. So they would give
us those reference images for scripted dishes. And then we
had two people working mostly on
the notebooks. One person was a local artist, Denise Dietz
for the scripted dishes, and then
our in-house art department illustration
star, Abacuc Rodriguez kind of filled in
all the other pages and jotting down ideas
and working with culinary to like, you know,
they went and they threw food all over the
books. And, you know, they had a lot of fun
making those notebooks. So. Yeah, the notebooks are
fantastic. And I kind of at one stage,
I remember thinking, I wonder who decided
that Carmy was actually going to be really,
really great artist, you know, because whenever you see
them and you see some of the other
characters looking at them going, wow, you know, like
they're, they're really, really impressive.
Yeah, I think Carmy was not as good drawer in the season
one. Right. This kind of has developed over
because he used to just have a simple sketches he will too.
And now they are like beautiful.
So beautiful. Yeah. Yes. And also in season three, you see
more him sitting with the sketchbook,
even when he's in the Copenhagen, like he's just throwing
his ideas or pastries and dishes and
things. So it's, it's been the evolving process for him
too. With, with the food, you know, there's,
there's, there's a number of times where he's, he's looking
at a plate and he's just mesmerized
by that plate, deciding whether it's right, whether it's
wrong. And then the number of times
he decides it's wrong and he throws it out. I'm curious, do
you guys have what is a perfect plate
and then you do something to fuck it up so it is wrong or
is that just something internal with him?
I think it's always him. Yeah. Right. Okay. Damn
perfectionism. Yeah. I wanted to, I wanted to
ask you about that though, but about that idea about being
a perfectionist and about what drives
an artist and, and, and there's a lot of messages in the
bear for me at least. And that's one of the
messages about that, that thing about just driving yourself
to a point of perfection or, or striving
to be a better artist. And I'm wondering if that is
something that either of you relate to as artists.
I think it's, I think everybody could relate.
like everybody has their own struggle with something
or wanting to be better or wanting to be perfect
at something, it's the drive.
And yeah, think about these things.
And I think like sometimes you think you're done
and then like another idea comes in and you're like,
"Oh crap."
Like, and for me, like I think it's season three,
we also see Carmy like, he's a little bit like, to me,
anyway, he's a little lonely and he's like working
on these dishes and he's like, he doesn't look happy
and he's kind of like obsessed, you know?
And I get like that if I'm designing like alone
and I think that having a team really helps me not.
Like it's okay to like sort of abuse myself, right?
To like, too long, but like, you know, these are people,
I have a team, like I can't, like, you know,
you want to inspire them, you don't want to be like,
you don't want them to be exhausted.
So you need to know when to stop and Marie is very good.
She always comes out and will say, "Everybody go home."
(laughs)
You have a life people, you know.
(laughs)
The look for the bear is, I mean, it's such a beautiful
look and there's some things that are a little more obvious
like, you know, the coldness of the kitchen
to the warmth of the restaurant,
especially when you get those split screens.
But is there a look book or is there a kind of a Bible
of design that you guys have for the bear?
No, it was a combination of several ideas and so,
Maddie, one of our characters as well, you know,
he is also real life, he's a
chef and we were talking to him
and we were like, what can, and also like characters,
what can those people do who has no design experience,
That finds this little bit of money and they want to do a,
you know, Michelin star style of restaurant,
what can they possibly do with this?
And then it's simplicity is always,
but makes simple, simple and beautiful and just,
that was one of the big parts of the design,
Scandinavian looks and stuff using a raw materials,
like the back wall is just a stained plywood.
There's something like we take and probably handle that,
you know, or simple stripes and simple colors
and just stark and white and not to overthink it.
But then, yeah, in a big back corner,
we have this fun bathroom with absolutely crazy wallpaper,
you know, something different.
But it was a combination again,
with looking at the pictures and the resources
and what people have done with all the restaurants
and what's in and what's out and that was a long,
long like kind of a designing process
with many many hats involved.
Yeah, it's, I get so excited.
I mean, every episode I watch, I could watch,
I could watch and don't let any of the writers hear this.
I could watch the show without any sound
because I just dive into it.
But then of course you get the layer of the sound
on top of that, that kind of brings it all together.
But you may have noticed that my time
has stopped ages ago, but I just,
I'm sneaking a few extra minutes out of it
because there's so much I wanted to ask you.
I saw it. Yeah, no,
it's just a bit cheeky.
I was wondering, I guess to wind up and to finish off,
if there's something as, you know, in your roles
that you kind of wish someone would ask you about the,
and I'm stealing this technique off Rachel Maddow actually,
because she does this all the time.
Is there something I should have asked you?
But it's a really good,
I think it's a really good
question to ask people, you know,
if there's something that you think
is a really interesting fact,
especially to do with the design of the color of the show
that you'd love to mention.
Lisa, do you have anything?
I'm gonna think a little bit.
Yeah, put you on the spot a bit as well.
So sorry about that.
Well, I don't know if it's directly about color,
but I do, I, like, I've become pretty obsessed
with like the kitchen lighting, the linear lighting
because there's not a lot of color in the kitchen.
I know we have these blue elements,
but it is really a cool white kitchen, right?
I wish people would ask more like,
hey, tell me about those lighting ideas.
Because I think, and they've shot it so beautifully,
like they really frame.
that was sort of architectural lighting moves really well.
But, you know, like we had custom shelves over the island
and over the bakery that have light panels below
and, you know, and all of that,
the back wall has a custom spice shelf.
Like all of that work was very
much at the end, right Marie?
But like you said, it was like,
at the end of a long process.
I'm always impressed actually with that, with the kitchen
because of it is, for me, it's
quite a strong look in there.
It's quite a harsh look and yet
skin tones are still popping through.
The food colors are still popping
through, which I think is really clever.
Yeah, but yeah, Lisa, I agree with you.
The kitchen was designed with lighting the
way that the lighting crew actually never
had to lit it.
They would walk on and just film because
it was already lit with practical lighting.
In the end, we worked with the lighting designer, our TP,
very closely where to put exactly
what lights and light temperature.
So everything will be ready to shoot.
And I mean, they can dial it up and
down and all that, but they're not adding,
they're not, yeah, they're not like hanging any lights
or adding thing on stands really.
It's all practical.
And I just, yeah, I think it turned out really great.
And, you know, I think of it like,
it's kind of like an art gallery, you know,
like you want the food to pop like artwork,
so you wouldn't want too much noisy colored kitchen.
So it's sort of, and I think that real kitchens
maybe are kind of like that too.
Like you want it to be more neutral.
So like you can see what you're making, right?
Like you don't want all that visual clutter around you.
Which is interesting, isn't it?
Because when it was The Beef, it was so good.
And the food kind of did, the food did kind of get lost
in there and cause of that chaos.
And I want to thank you sincerely.
Thank you both for taking time out to chat to me
and I'm such a fan.
And once again, huge congratulations on all the nominations
to the both of you and to everyone on the show.
And I'm looking forward to seeing you.
Yeah.
Merje, Lisa, thank you so much for joining me
on the podcast.
Fantastic and huge congratulations again.
Thank you to my executive producer MixingLight.com.
Chances are if you're seeing this through their website,
you already know what they do.
But if you don't check them out MixingLight.com.
They can help you with all things color.
Thank you listeners for joining me again
and thanks for buying some t-shirts.
Some people actually bought
some t-shirts, which is so cool.
I did it kind of as a half joke
because somebody said you should get some merch.
And yeah, so people have actually bought t-shirts.
If you want to buy a t-shirt, you can see in the show notes
or maybe I'll, you know how people do that thing?
They point and there's a link.
I'll see if I can do that.
I'm not making any promises.
But look, until next time, thank you so much.
Thanks for joining me.
Keep the comments coming
and like, subscribe to all that jazz.
All right, see ya.
The Color Timer, a micro podcast experience.