Your backstage pass awaits. This is an advisory
style episode. It means that I'm abandoning the typical
interview format to deep dive into a challenge faced by my
guest in their own business. It's your chance to peek
behind the curtain and see how key decisions around growth and
scaling really get made. You're going to love
diving into this episode with us.
Welcome to the podcast. We're on Scale Right Revolution, and this is a special
advisory episode, and I have a guest, Marisa
Corcoran. Welcome. Hey Tori, thank you. Thanks for
having me. This is a long time coming because I've known Marisa for
many, many years, and she's helped me with my copy.
Actually, she's helped me understand how to be
myself as I write and to be comfortable
with who I am and expressing myself naturally as I am.
And I gotta tell you, Marisa, oh, it has taken
me a long time to be okay with being
the nerd-tastic leader and allowing that part
to come out and to really recognize that I
kind of am that way and not to hate on myself about it.
Yeah, I know. And I feel like you're really thriving in the nerdastic
leadership— leader role, which is so, which
is so cool. And someone might— is myself. And we can kind of talk about
what these copy— what the Copy Stars mean. And I was just about to tell
folks. So, so Marisa created this
amazing way of just helping you understand
copy yourself, your personality, through one of
the coolest things— through acting. And
who hasn't had a little dream in their life
of one day I'm going to be an actor? And I gotta tell you, my
acting dream is when I'm old— and I used to think when I'm Betty White's
age, I want to be the little grandma on the first— for the first
time walking down the red carpet going, I'm a movie star now.
I love it. And so, so we have these
copy stars, which helps you understand your personality so it can come
through in the way that you type or write or put out copy or speak.
And, um, I just love it. So yes, so Nerdtastic Leader is—
I call it my pocket, um, personality. It might be
my actual primary personality. And these are me just
bastardizing what Maurice is teaching, um, because I also love to be that
cheerleader. And because I'm happy and peppy and positive,
but I'm not real 'Rawr, rawr, go, you got this, you got
it' in my copy or in my business life. I'm just kind of like that
naturally. So it's really interesting to see how it plays out.
Yeah, I think all the different elements, you know, it— I was just
actually saying this, we were talking about this at our AI Sessions event on— at
the time of this recording, this past Friday, where I was talking about as myself,
one of the copy stars is called the hooker with a heart of gold. I
feel like I'm a hooker with a heart of gold, like, outfit and everything today.
Um, I always say like, I don't want to buy from other hookers with a
heart of gold. Like, I haven't— I have that energy in my life. So I
tend to really buy from nerd-tastic leaders. Like, I love when I feel
really taken care of by a nerd-tastic leader. Like, I know they know their stuff.
I know they're the smartest person in the room. I know they're gonna know how
to walk me all the way from A to Z. So I really love
when people actually start to really embrace who they are, because,
you know, something I always talk about, like, people make purchasing decisions
based on two things. One is what you're selling, something that I want or I
need, And number 2, are you the person that I want to do it with?
Do I get a sense of your voice and your vibe? And so when I
see people really step into their copy star or their primary copy star, because we
can always borrow from other bits or have— hey, I'm a little bit of nerd-tastic,
I got the relentless cheerleader in me, of course, uh, I, I really
start to see people shine. So it's really, it's really cool. It's a really— and
it's— and like you said, it's a really fun way of looking at our
business and writing personalities, as opposed to somebody just telling you, oh yeah, just
go out there and be yourself. It's a nice system you can walk yourself through
to kind of understand a little bit more about yourself. And I, you know, essentially
swipe this from the actor world of the archetypes of, you know, the kind of
characters that I used to be called in for when I was, uh, when
I was an actor. Yeah, I, I think,
you know, if I have to talk to the listener directly, if you
haven't dived into different ways of
understanding how you write or how you present or how you talk to people
um, in any situation, this is a really fun way to learn copy. And
Marisa does it like no one else. Um, I've been through a lot of different
copy programs or trainings, courses, and
it literally is my favorite. I go back to it again and again.
Um, and Marisa is in a launch right now. She does a launch. She
also has her, um, Copy Chat,
which is in— going into its 10th season, and she may retire it, I
hear. Um, And then she has the AI sessions. So
she's always like we are here. She's always reinventing and experimenting and
trying new things, um, and also repeating what works.
So, um, I want you to tell us a little bit about Copy
Confidence Society and your business evolution, where, where you
stand today, and just kind of help us understand your business
because I really wanna spotlight it for folks to,
um, to understand what goes on and, and get their interest up in it.
Mm, yeah, thank you, Tori. Thank you. So funny you think I'm, I'm in launch
mode because I got, you know, stranded— it's not really stranded— in
Miami. By the time of this recording, there's like this huge snowstorm happening back up
at the Northeast. I know you're cozy, like,
I just— so I found out I had to stay here for an extra 3
days. Oh, boohoo. You know, all good. It's beautiful weather. It's great.
But I was like, oh yeah, I'm in launch mode. And usually when I'm in
launch mode and I have this speaks to what you just asked me. I could—
in the past, I've been very hunkered down. Like, that's all I do. I live
and breathe my business, which I think is a great quality about myself and the
way that I show up for my people and all that. But over the last
about year or so, I've really tried
to incorporate— like,
trust that I've been, you know, at the time, you know, when this launch is
the 16th launch of the Copy Confidence Society. You know,
it is proven. We've supported over 1,000 business owners. And so
in a way, it's always interesting how God or the universe, whatever you think, like,
it's just interesting that it's like, okay, yeah, I'm launching here in Miami. I'm not
at my normal desk, all that. But there— it is actually
really cool to, to, to do that. And it speaks to the evolution
that we are in as a community, which is helping people just,
you know, I always talk about your business has 3 basic needs. One, you have
to sell in a way that feels good. You don't have buyers, you don't have
a business. Number 2, you have to call in the right people to sell to.
We know this is lead generation or audience growth. And number 3, you have to
know what to say and how to say it in order to call in the
right people to sell to. And that third thing is what I specialize in, is
what we do inside of the Copy Confidence Society. We help you uncover what to
say and how to say it with that personality-filled copy that dazzles.
So if you're a coach or a service provider, there are these core pieces of
copy you need for people to help them make that right
purchasing decision to kind of turn those, those
kind of, you know, subscribers into soon-to-be customers, all of that
good stuff. That's what we specialize in. But with the rise of AI and
everything that's been happening, we've made— we've been making some shifts, like you said, kind
of staying— making some shifts in the, in the
experience and in the program. And where the program used to be, you know,
like very robust and all of that, all— I've really pared it
down. To the absolute, like, essentials that you need to rock it as
a coach or service provider. We've added in these custom GPTs to help you
move it with more efficiency and effectiveness. Um, we're doing it in—
I'm getting back to live teaching. So, you know, if
speaking out there, if you're a listener, I think in your business, I, I really
sat with myself over this past year and said, okay, what do I miss? What
do I want? And I thought, you know, I haven't taught the Copy Confidence Society
live since 2020. And I was craving, like, I wanted
to be— and so lately, like, with AI sessions that you mentioned, we did that
live. On Zoom, interviewed live, and I just was,
I just was craving, I wanted to be back doing things live. So
we're teaching the Society live. We're going to kick off when people join us with
like a 3-day virtual retreat
to move people right through the first things that they need. I'm going to teach
every single aspect live. We're going to have get it done days with my editor,
Jen, where you'll come in and get the copy done. You'll have editing calls. Like
our goal is that you will move through the time. Coming out with those core
copy pieces done and dusted so that you can go live
your life and do the stuff that you wanna do. And you're not in a,
in the weeds of, of videos and modules and things that there
was a place for that, where that worked and it did really well. And I
think I, I was sensing that and sensing that from my own life. And so
I'm just really excited to support people in this kind of updated version of
the society and helping you really uncover who you are
with the Copy Stars. Uncover your messaging, how you talk
about what you do with clarity, how you write about it, and getting some of
those core copy pieces done and dusted, like your website, your welcome
sequence, that everyday kind of writing content creation, and
walk away having that. And then having those kind of AI tools to keep using
that as you keep growing your business.
Yeah, I think that, you know, where it was really easy to get
stuck in ruminating. Um, over
which words do I use, I don't know how to describe it. I think that's
one of the superpowers of AI is really helping you brainstorm
through a couple of those things, or, or even how I use
it most is I just brain dump to it. I take an audio
note and now you can talk straight to it, but I take an audio note
and I let my thoughts just
kind of go as I'm walking or driving or commuting. And then I let it
sort it out and report back to me,
what am I saying again and again? What is the, the gist of
it? And then going back in and putting the human
back into it, which is how do I,
um, make it sound like me or make it conversational? Um,
and then I practice with it over and over, like, how do I describe what
I do? And I I think that being able to have those pieces that
walk you through it when you're going through curriculum or a
process is so powerful because it helps you move faster with
more confidence because you have immediate feedback and
it knows the process that you put in. It
knows the hard work that you've created, the frameworks you've
created into it as a tool for someone
versus let's just go to Claude or ChatGPT or
Perplexity or whatever and start having a conversation. It does not
have the same framework that
someone like you, a professional teaching a specific thing, has. And
I— it's just so beautiful to have those two things coming together now.
Mm, it's so true, Tori, exactly what you're saying. Because at the same time that
I wanted people to move through more efficiently and more effectively, what I was seeing
is when people were bringing stuff that they were using from AI, I thought to
myself, my gosh, this sounds like everyone else. And,
and, and I think, you know, Tori, something that we're kind of, you know,
known for— whatever this means, I'm not like a celebrity or anything— but like something
that we're known— although, you know, I'd like to be, the Leo in me, of
course— but, um, something that I think we get rave reviews
about is that people feel like we've created this sense of
real intimacy inside of the society, even when there
is maybe a more medium-sized or, or bigger group. We've Like I've really made
it kind of made it my goal. I first heard my friend Clint Salter talk
about this one time at a, at a conference a few years ago about scaling
intimacy. And that has really been my word. Yeah. And then
it's been a mission of mine is how do I scale intimacy? And I think
we do a really good job of it. And I say this to say that
I know people really well is basically what I'm trying to say. So when they
would bring me stuff, I'd be like, I know this isn't you. I know this
isn't your copy style. I know this isn't— and so while I understood, I want
to get through stuff, I'm going, This isn't good though.
This isn't gonna convert. And so I said, okay, how can
we bring, like you said, the proven frameworks that I've, you know, been doing since
2013, the tried and true kind of proven frameworks, things that have evolved
over the years, and combine this with this in a bit as that
idea popcorn, that thought partnership without taking away the creativity. Because
something that I really think about as copy, and I will die on this, is
even before I get into marketing with people, I really think of copy as
like, it is an— it's an art. It is this beautiful creative art
form. And I wanna go for quality with people. I wanna help you create a
website, website copy that is gonna live on for you. That has some of the
longest shelf life if you, if you get it right, if you hit it and
you can make some tweaks to it, of course. And that's what I'm— I want
you to come in and get it done and not, and, and then go off
and coach and do the things that you're, that you're great at. And so I
was like, okay, how can we bring what I know is proven to something that
can help people get a, through a little bit faster. And then when they leave
the program, they can, they can come— I kind of call her the MBot— they
can come to the MBot and they can ask the MBot and all that. So
it's been, it's been a journey and we still continue the journey, right?
Especially with this. This is why I wanted to go back to teaching live and
just making sure as updates and things are changing that I was on the pulse
of it and doing things in real time with, with people.
Yeah. Yeah. It makes a huge difference.
Um, So as we were talking about kind of the growth and the
scale, um, now I'm gonna switch this over a little bit.
So, um, we looked at discussing— this is,
uh, I'm switching modes and experimenting too with the technology
piece. And I've been doing advisory sessions on
the scalability of a business and how do you go through those growth levers?
How do you keep the founder front and center as
a, a lean— I call it lean founder-first scaling, um,
which to some may feel like they're going backwards because maybe
they're not going to hire and grow to 75 people.
Maybe they want to stay small and lean. They may look at,
do I really need that much revenue, or do I want to maximize
my profitability and my time? That lifestyle piece
comes into it. But from the standpoint of
what feels good in your business, and you mentioned early
going back and what are you craving in your business, what are you wanting and
missing in your business, and I think that's such a key question to ask.
Um, and then as we move forward, one of the, one of the growth levers
is systems and technology. So
this style of episode is let's look at
Does AI and automation make sense for some of the
recent bottlenecks that you're having as you grow and scale? And
keep in mind that grow and scale doesn't always mean
grow bigger, grow for the sake of growth. Um, I got stuck in
the trap of— I grow— I had my first
tech business and we grew to about 75 people before
I cashed out of that business. Because
I was constantly chasing growth and constantly
feeling unhappy to the point of
really dark places of unhappiness, that pit of
despair that I just couldn't get out of. And I know a lot of
folks get confused. They're like, why did you leave
multimillion-dollar business in something that you already had
established to do, to do something else? And it's funny, I started another
tech business thinking that that was the answer., and
I, I had to exit out of that business as well because I'm like,
this, this isn't it. And so it's funny to kind of come back
to technology again, but in a very different way, more
in a coaching guidance. And what can I build? Like, can
I— I'm, I'm almost getting back to my tech roots
and doing some of that work, doing some of that exploration. And,
and that's what brings us here to this kind of episode. So
I'm gonna tell the listener, um, I asked Marisa
to let us know what are 1 to 3 bottlenecks that she's currently facing
and navigating in her business, and we can talk about them. Yeah, this is
so fun. Awesome. I'm, I'm so excited. So, yeah.
Okay. So Marisa let me know what are the
3 bottlenecks that she's really looking at in her business as she grows
and goes forward. And that's the point where we're gonna do
some thought partnership around and see how we
can explore if AI and automation is a solution or if there's
some other growth lever that may apply. That way, audience, you
get to be that rare fly on the wall to really
understand how do decisions get made in the back end of a business,
especially when they're in that growth and scale mode. And you get to see
not just in general, but Marisa really go through this with me as
we talk at this level on what are the things that she's
finding she's getting stuck in, in her business. Um, and not
stuck as in there's something wrong, but how does she make it
more— I say sustainable scaling, but how can it be smoother? So
the 3 things that Marisa gave us are me checking
everything off. I mean, who doesn't feel like they want to go back
and make sure everything's in place? I think that's a very common
area. There's a lot of copy to always be written. I mean, hello, she's a
copywriter. Beautiful. And then the Ask Me thread, which is this
other piece in her business. So Marisa, if we were
to kind of start off with what do you want to talk about today, which
one of those feels like it's the one you want to discuss? Yeah,
I think the Ask Me thread, and that's
because, yeah, it's something that's worked for us for so long. But I think in
where we're, you know, we were talking earlier about like where we're taking the
society. I'm trying to figure out where that fits in now, especially since
you're doing live— exactly— or live portions. Okay, so why don't
you start by telling us what is the Ask Me thread? Yeah, so the Ask
Me thread is this thing that we've had throughout my programs basically from the
very beginning, which is we, we truly are a global community. We
have people from all over the world, so not everybody can make every call, nor
do I want everybody to feel like they have to be at every call in
order to you know, get the most out of the experience. And I know there's
different learning styles, right? There's people who like never go to the calls and like,
just give me the material, or they come to the teaching stuff, you know, you
know, we all have different learning styles. And I try to make sure that those
are all included. We also have a lot of people with parent, you know, who,
who are parents or taking care of their own parents, or life is coming
to life. So I wanted to make sure that they still felt that they could
get questions answered no matter kind of where they fell into. So what we've
had for the longest time is on Mondays, this thing will appear in our Facebook
group. Called the Ask Me Thread. And you can ask me your kind of like
top 2 questions, you know, like, hey, you
know, Marisa, it's Tori here. I'm in my— you know, here's what's going well.
I always ask people, okay, what's going well? What do you want to celebrate? And
then, okay, Marisa, I'm working on my copy stars and I'm
feeling this. Could you help me figure out this? So you can ask me kind
of 2 specific questions about what you're working on. And then
on Tuesdays, I come in and I answer. But I still end
up basically, which is not bad. I've, I've loved doing it for years, as you
know, Tori, for years. And I'll answer people all the way and I don't close
those loops till the end of the week. But a lot of that is relying
on— I might say to you, Tori, because I am somebody who likes to get
to the kernel of it, I'll say, hey, Tori, let me ask you a question.
Now we're going back and forth and I always make sure we get to the—
we close the loop or I say, hey, Tori, let's talk about this on the
next call. Can, can you bring this? And I write a note making sure that
we save a spot for you to ask a question. And again, it
has worked really well, but where we're taking
things, I'm trying to figure out
where— what we could do with that. And even if we were leaving everything
the same, I still feel like there's a way
that sometimes, oh, I want to ask this, then you want to ask me, and
then you ask this, and then next you know it is Friday, and Friday, and
I, and I want people to feel like they they got, okay,
move on to the next thing. I'm trying to get everybody to like just move
forward. And I feel like just as we've transitioned or changed stuff, I feel
like this has to change in some way, and I'm trying to figure out what
that is. The things that
are coming to mind are your
time, open threads, and the
mbot. And the, the— what I mean by open threads
I have, I have ADHD and it
really messes with me. So if I have a ball that's— or
something that is still in the air, I'm constantly trying
to not let it fall and panicking over it.
And this is done in Facebook, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
So it's not easy. I don't know if you have a system, but it, it
can be difficult to keep track of where do I still have an
open thread? Um, and then your time, like,
you're spending time going in all through the
week, and I don't know how you feel about, about your
time efficiency-wise or the amount of time you spend in that way,
if that's serving you on how you want to spend that time.
And then I forgot what the third one was because I started talking, but no,
I think what you just said is, is absolutely true. I think how
I know it's been my own brain I'm somebody who, like, I
will be on morning walk and I go, oh, I gotta follow up with
Tori in the ask me thread, you know. And I'm pretty good at
doing that, and I have a system. Like, I go in, I go to
the ask me thread always on a Thursday, no matter what, even if I know
I finished it all. Go to all comments and I just make sure
that they're all there. And then if it's all answered, I say, okay, this thread
has been closed, we, we've answered them all, all of it. So I've had the
system, and again, that system has worked well. But yeah, if we are going to
go back to where I'm teaching more live
and we're doing more of these events for people, like AI sessions and all these
things, it's just, oh gosh, the ask me thread goes up and I want— I
don't want to take away from the quality of those answers or the quality
of the time that I've given or getting people their, their
questions answered. It just, I don't know if it fits anymore for where, where we're
going, but I'd still like to have a resource like that
for people in some way. You mentioned earlier your Get
It Done, and I know Get It Done is
focused on a specific done and dusted piece
like your sales page. Um, and folks, if you want in, the
sales page is coming up, so get into
CCS. Um, then you have the editing calls. Are you
finding— so where I'm going is Do we, do we close this
particular type of access at this point
and switch into something else, or do you already have something else that can kind
of take the place? I wonder the kinds of questions
that you're getting. Is it something that can wait
for one of the get it dones? Is it something that
can move into the ask me's, or do you set up a call
again? Like, I don't know how you feel about coming on the a call that's
just the kind of question like a Q&A.
Um, and are you finding— I think this is the most important question
here— is in the Ask Me thread, is there anything people
are coming in there for because it's urgent and can't wait until
the next call or other type
of interaction that they have? Usually
no, unless maybe they're in a launch, you know, And
they've needed— a couple Ask Me threads ago, we had one of our peeps that
was in a launch and, you know, needed some support and they
were closing the doors, you know, but usually
no. Usually it's like, okay, I'm working on my messaging and here's what I'm thinking
about and how does this feel? You know? And so I'm able to cover a
lot and support a lot of people, but I agree with
you. Part of me, so the, I, I go in like two directions. Part of
me goes like what you're saying. Okay, well, we're gonna have all these other live
calls. Like for example, we're gonna kick off with 3 days together.
Like a 3-day virtual retreat. I mean, at
the investment— we're giving a lot, which I'm so excited about, and not
an overwhelming way, in a way that it's— I, I've thought about this for a
long time about moving people through in those 3 days.
So I— part of me feels like so many of those questions that maybe have
been in the ask me thread for so long will have less because
of the virtual— of the retreat and the way that we're doing things and the
get it done like you said. But I'm also wondering if
there's a, a way of the— that the mbah or something there that
I might be missing a bit
too. Yeah, what I'm thinking
first, you mentioned most of the questions you get in there are
the messaging, probably those first 3 modules, like finding
their voice, how to say what they're saying, or their message, that
core message. Um, I
wonder, is there a world where you shut that down
and it becomes that those questions are getting
answered in the kickoff? So they have to come to those kickoffs and those
calls are pointed on the core pieces of
copy. So you're kind of answering most of those questions. You do
a launch model. So you're probably gonna do some kind
of kickoff type of event. Regularly. Um, you
also have the editing calls. They can always pop into an editing call with
their messaging. It doesn't have to be, here's a complete email that I've
created. Let's do the email. It can be, yes, I can't figure out my message
for 5 minutes or whatever, however long, maybe 15. Then you've
got this mbot. I mean, if it's a coach, is it— if
it's trained on your material and
your, um, coaching calls, kind of the brain,
then it's going to be able to respond, not
replace you, but they're going to be able to use the
ChatGPT or the, the custom GPTs that you have in the course material
that's zeroed in on messaging or whatever
place they happen to be in the curriculum. And you're going to have
the overall coaching bot on not only where do I find
this lesson, but What has Marisa said on this
before? Um, plus I think that's it. I think that's it, Tori. I think that's
it. I think we have the GPTs for the
specific things, for Copy Star, for approach unpack,
which, you know, is our messaging, words of the ideal client. We
have it for your content motifs. Like, we have it for the core,
the stuff. I think it's, it's strengthening or
looking at the And the, you know, the, the,
the, the M coaching— I think we have the M copybots. Those are
great, right? The M coaching one, I hear what you're saying, and I think maybe
I hadn't worked on that one as much because I had
the— we've been kind of rolling these out. I knew we were changing course, but
I've kind of been rolling it out with everybody to see. But that one is
kind of the last one I've looked at because I'm like, well, we have the,
you know, we have the Ask Me thread.
Yeah. And the beauty of a coach bot, if folks— if you haven't
heard of it before, it really is a bot that
you train on the back end that has access
to the transcripts of all your calls. If you, if you, if you decide to
train it in that, your coaching calls, as you go, the live
editing calls, all of that gets pulled in and, and
categorized and made into this really rich source of
information. So instead of generic ChatGPT or
Claude using a training from the world. It's your
own little world of your stuff and your brain and things that
you've said. And the beauty of it is, as you continue
to have your live stuff, your live teachings, your
3-day kickoff and your revival, the business
revival, um, and all of the Get It Dones and the
special pieces, you're going to be constantly coaching. So it's always going to
be updated with not only your data, but also how have
you helped and solved and gone through so that those kind
of become processes that the bot will learn to help people go
through. And that way, when they come to a call,
they haven't had zero interaction. They've
had interaction in the meantime. That's their— in the meantime, and they're coming to a
call prepared. They may not even need it. They may be like, oh, this sounds
good, I'm good. Plus you have the community and the
community aspect of it. You know, Lawrence and I have been in there
forever and we help each other and tell each other,
oh, I like that, or this doesn't make sense. So you have that
depth. The thing— the first thing you mentioned is depth
with your team, uh, going, going above and beyond
for the people, not only for your team, but also for all of your
students. And your lifers, those people that have been with you forever,
they're going to continue to support the folks because of the way
you inspire them to do so. And you ask them, please,
everybody share. And I, I don't think that's going away. No, that's,
that's our, that's our strongest— you know, you've always heard me joke about this story.
I'm always like, I will, I'll get in the ring, you know, with anybody
who claims to have a tighter-knit community than what we've created. I think it's one
of our strongest pieces And it really is great because there are
people who've gone through this in their copy. They— it's so great to watch
people like you all give feedback because it's so great. I'm like, I
don't need to step in here, this is it, because you've been doing it or
you've seen it. And so, uh, yeah, I think the
community piece and then strengthening the, like, M— you know, like I
said, the M copy is good, but I think taking some time to strengthen a
bit more the M coaching one And then kind of sunsetting the
ask me thread as we know it. And again, just as we're
moving things, I actually think, you know, likely done
well could probably be even more powerful for people,
honestly. Yeah. And I wanna go back to the
Leo. So Marisa talks about being a Leo in the spotlight all
the time. And it's funny cuz I think Leo is my moon sign.
Ah, Leo's my moon too. So I'm a Leo sun. A Leo
moon. What? And thank God, thank God I'm a
Libra rising, otherwise I would just be— yeah, just taking selfies
of myself all day. Yeah, I'm a Cancer
Leo sun rising, a Scorpio rising,
rising Cancer sun, right? Cancer sun. Yeah, yeah. So this makes so much sense for
you. Alphabet soup. I don't know what all that means for me, but
yeah, I do, but if you don't want to ask me— but yes, I love
it. So anyways, yes, I talk a lot about being a Leo. And then by
the way Then I go in Venus, which is like your love
sign. I go back to Leo. My Venus is also in Leo.
Wow. Yeah, it's, it's a lot,
right? I wrote love sign down because I'm like, I don't know what my— what
your Venus is. Cool. Yeah, what your Venus
is. I have to find it out. Um, and the
celebrity aspect, what you have
done the best I've ever seen
is introducing your people, your community, your
students to other
experts and allowing— giving props
to that expert for really being an expert.
And that transition, I, I think you've done it
with two people. I, I— all I can think about right now is Jen,
but um, making that transition seamless. It's
because you've integrated yourself with them at the same time,
um, and then you've handed the reins over, but you've,
you've been there as
that touting them, um, when you borrow from other
people's relationships. I can't think of the word, but you're
basically showing trust in this person by bringing them
in and seamlessly weaving them through to allow them to have the reins by
proving— let's look at what she can do. I'm going to prove to
you, um, that she's got you. And I think that's
really powerful because the ask me thread is you and access
to you, and you don't want people to think they have
no access to you anymore. That goes against
that above and beyond, that depth that you really create, and really knowing
the people How do you feel
about not being on the ask me thread and still feeling
like you're able to know the people so that you can still give them that
enriched experience? Yeah, it's such a good question, something that I've thought
about. And I think where it comes from is a couple of the
things. Number one, which is we are, you know, a
lot of this is live. So when I'm, when I'm, you know, going back to
teaching where we had the modules, like, I'm going to be teaching the website stuff
live. I'm going to be teaching the welcome
sequence live, so that's me. Um,
Q&A, that's me. Uh, so I feel like there's even in
some ways even more— totally— access than there's been. And I— that
has never been an issue in our community. I really appreciate you saying that,
Tori. It really means so much to me. Thank
you. Um, that has never been an issue in our community. People, I think, are
always pleasantly surprised when they come in. They're like, oh 'Wow, you're
really here.' And I'm like, 'Yeah, what am I also gonna do? I'm not like—'
I know, I like working. I'm like that. I'm always like, 'I like
being here,' you know. Of course I'm here. So, and yeah, and then the people—
you know what's so funny, speaking of being a Leo, which is so funny, is
a lot of times people will talk about like Leos as, you know, it's always
a spotlight on me, on me, on me. But actually, if you read a lot
about Leos, Leos, one of their best qualities is, is, is
spotlighting the people that they also— like, if a Leo loves you and believes in
your talent, a Leo is your like
your agent. That's— and that's so interesting. I
have, uh, an eye for talent. Like, I think I could have been a talent
agent. Like, I have an eye for talent. I do. So when I see people,
I go, that person's good. Yeah. And I want to know them
and I want to support them. And we've seen that. We've seen that with Jen,
we've seen that with Brenna, we've seen that with people who have come in and
are— they're superstars. And so I love that because
I've also, at the same time, I know, again, being a Leo, people think, oh,
it's like the you show. No, I have never wanted that because in the online
space, at least as we've seen, there's a lot of
like a guru culture that I actually never have ever wanted to
be, ever. I've always wanted it to feel that community part. I always say to
run a business, you don't— you're not born knowing how to do it. It's not
even self-made, it's community-made. And what I wanted to do was create a community where
I was that leader of that community that's, you know, shining that light.
So I think there's still a ton of access to me. Yeah. And what
you've highlighted too, Tori, is also trusting. And you— and I
say this, like, the people, like, they're really good at what they do, trusting
that they're really good at what they do. And so, and the other thing about
this too, Tori, is something else about the Ask Me thread that I started
to notice. And I think that, um, maybe in the M coaching, but
it'll be a little bit more helpful in this way, is that what I start
to notice sometimes about the Ask Me thread is people, you know, maybe they're looking
for my approval. And I want to come back and make sure people
know, hey, listen, your business is
always— like, you're always evolving, you're always changing, always growing. So like, how can I
help you trust you? So a lot of times my response is in the
ask me thread, I'll go back and I'll say, hey, this isn't the
sexiest, but tell me more about what you think about
this. Yeah. So also finding ways to make sure that people are
trusting themselves more. As
well. Yeah, I think, I think that's a hard
one. Um, yeah, so I'm putting my client hat on. So
as someone who goes through with an expert and hires an
expert to help me with something, there's a difference in I want to hire you
to create my copy for me and I'm
writing my copy, hey, do you think it
sounds like it's gonna sell, like someone's gonna click the link
or click the button in buy or sign up or
whatever the, the, whatever the thing you're, you're offering to folks. Does
it sound like something they need? Am I positioning it correctly?
And I think there's a, I think there's a place for that
kind of, of, um, it's not approval but
the feedback. Oh, for sure. And then the approval piece,
which For me, I love external validation,
and if I have a coach, like a life coach or a
business coach, I'm always seeking
external validation and learning to trust myself. And
for me, this is my personal experience, they have to kick
me out of the nest and say, boink, you're gonna have to
try it and fail and try it and not fail and try
it and see that you didn't fail and and just put it out
there. And I wonder how
can— I think that part of
the M coaching bot and even the copy bots is
those guardrails, which is kick the bird out of the
nest guardrails. Don't ask, you're not allowed to ask
8 times. You can, you have to stop iterating and
then the bot will say, we're done iterating. Here's the
top 3. I'm ranking them for you. Here's your
top 3. I'm smart because I'm a damn bot. And
go. That right there, when I ask— so I ask
my prompts all the time, okay, stop, give
me your recommendation, tell me why you're recommending it that way.
And because I just need to go and do actual work, um, so we can
get in that loop, whether it's human loop with you
or a loop with some other technology, I think
those guardrails might be that piece that helps move people
along where they get their external validation, which for me feels
like approval, but they also get, hey, if this is
a real approval kind of thing, like a, a second set
of eyes that's knowledgeable about conversion
copywriting or relationship or personality that
dazzles, like That's Maurice's words, personality
that dazzles. Is that in my copy? That's your
editing calls to say, I need this to be judged up, where I
need that kind of validation on this particular piece of copy. How
does that land? Oh yeah, no, I,
I couldn't agree more, Tori. I, I love that. I love that differentiation
too, is that the, you know, that external validation. And it's
also important. I want people to feel, feel that, but then like, okay, we have
that, so now like I think what you said is, is ultimately what I'm always
getting at is like, okay, what are we gonna put in place for you
to know? I often ask this question in the ask me time. I'll say, so
what are we gonna put in place for you to know that this is working
when you put it out there? What are we gonna be looking for? What are
we gonna be— oh, we're getting more responses to the email. Okay, great. Like, or,
you know what I mean? Like helping people come up with
their, um, you know, kind of, uh, what's the word I'm looking for? That's not
parameters, but they're, um, like a metric. Thank you. That's what their metrics,
their measure— their measurements, you know. Um, and so yeah, I think that there's
likely a mixture of that. And then also like, okay, so kicking them out,
like, okay, go do it, and then, you know, feel free to bring it back.
Or like you're saying, bring it to an editing call and Jen will be brilliant
and you'll love it. Or, you know, bring it, you know. And so all of
those, yeah, I think that there's room to make sure that each of
those elements is, is included in
there. Okay, so what we've talked about— I'm just
going to pull the button on it— is, is AI and
automation a potential fix for this particular
bottleneck? And what I find interesting is there is not
an additional AI or an additional
automation that you have to put in place. You're taking the steps to do that
and to build it. We've just fleshed it out to handle this
particular bottleneck, which is What do I do about this Ask Me thread? Do
I sunset it? Do I keep it? So what we've done is
really pulled the— back the covers on what are you actually doing in the
thread? What are the common questions? Why are they
using it? That approval piece, the feedback piece, and what
are you really doing at the end to close those out? And
it's by asking people what they're gonna
do to know if it's working or not. It's to give themselves that
validation. So we've just sussed out some additional guardrails that you can
put in the AI you're already
building. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're already
on that path. Um, now it's just the
decision. Yeah, it's so true. And the messaging, you know, the biggest things that I'm
running through— I love that you said that, like, what are the main things that
people are asking me about in there?
So, I mean, my gosh, how many Ask Me threads do we have to go
back to look at? I know, right? Well, no, no, no,
no, I'm not allowed to do that. No, I'm not. But you know what I
mean? Like, there's so many. Like, we've been doing this for so many years, but
like, I also know in my gut what they are because I've been answering them
for so many years. I know what— I know what it's about. So
yeah, yeah, you're not allowed to pick more than 50. I also think
you know me, like, the hooker with a hard wall. Like, I wouldn't— I'm like
Where do I even go find the old ask me that? You know what I
mean? Someone's constantly guiding me to the computer, like, press this button, turn this
on, you know? Yes. So I am very detailed.
So I, I would be the person that goes back
through 570,000 messages and pulls
the thread and says, oh, here. Yeah.
So yeah, no, we don't need that. You have it off the top of your
head. You can voice it. I have this little automation that I
built. Um, for fun, which I know sounds really weird, but it was a weekend.
I was having fun and I wanted to be
able to capture my ideas because I, I commute
a lot. I'm always on the go driving my kids around
or commuting here and there depending on where I'm going. And
I wanted to capture my ideas, but I put them all
over the place. They're in notes, they're in my Keep— Google Keep. They're an
email to myself. They're— sometimes they're in a different notes app and I forgot
where. Um, I've used to use Evernote, like they're all over the place. So I
built this little bot. I go into Telegram, which is
free. I send myself a voice message and behind the
scenes magic, I don't have to click a button or do anything. It sucks
itself into my Airtable, which is a database, a free database
program, and all my ideas are there. Verbatim,
and I made it smart. So it also categorizes it,
tells me what kind of idea it is, it puts the idea bank label on
it, and it tells me, um, if it would be good for content and
what kind of content. Should it be an email or a carousel, or is
it better as a quote prompt? Because it can be a short note or a
really long— I'm talking for 20 minutes on a drive, my brain is
going crazy— kind of note. It can also split it out, be like, I think
this is 3 ideas. And then it gives me a hook. Okay,
y'all, I gotta tell you, Marisa just did this amazing thing with her
subject lines, her 50 subject lines. Tell us what you just did with
them. Yeah, so the 50+ scroll-stopping subject lines has been like our free gift
for forever. And it's so funny because I was at a conference— this is a
true story— like a couple years ago, and 3 people came up to me on
like the first day. I just want to let you know, like, I use the
subject lines free gift like all the time. It's like the only free gift I
ever use. I was like, oh my gosh, thank you so much. The next person—
by the third person, I was like, am I being punk? Like, is someone trying
to test me or something? Anyways, people use it and they love it and I
love it. Anyways, I decided to be like,
okay, what would happen if I took these and I kind of ran my
3 formulas through AI and I gave it a couple prompts and it
is phenomenal. So like I took my one, it's called the
Cosmo concept where I've like swiped these things from the COVID of Cosmo and how
you can turn them into subject lines that are really
highly compelling that people will open. And so I, I, I ran it through AI
of like, okay, give me a subject line capsule, basically cosmo concept based
on this is my niche. Like, this is what I do. And then I did
it if it had a specific email I was writing. And so I basically went
through the formulas like that for people. So now it's the 50+ scroll-stopping subject lines,
like with this AI helper, and I give you it all to run through and
do. And it was really cool to see. I've already gotten some really great res—
because I just premiered it last week and I've already gotten some really great responses
from people that are like, oh my God, I did it. And this is so
great. So. Yeah, it's really cool. Yep.
So where was I even going with that? I think you were
talking about your— like, it, it'll even give you a hook, you were saying.
Oh yes, I was— I forgot I was talking about me. I'm like, where was
I going? Why did I tell Marisa? And then you were thinking the hook because
we were talking about subject lines, and I— it's like, I was like, I understand
this. Um, and it gives you a hook using
Marisa's formulas. Yep. Because I— why
not? Like, I love them. So I trained it on how to do it. And,
and I realized we have all this— like, I have this, Tori, I just realized,
for the gimme gimme titles, which I know you about, like gimme gimme titles,
by the way, for the Copy Confidence cheat sheet, which is those 52,
like, right, that's all about formatting and bold. Like, I mean, that's a ton
of stuff in the Copy Confidence cheat sheet that I worked for years to put
that together based on people I'd interviewed on the copy chat and all of
that. Um, the Headline Helper, like all of that. Yeah. Yeah.
They're tools. They're all little tools, tools that you own, tools
that you can pop in here for, for your, for your community
really. And I love that you're doing it slowly. So hey,
audience, listen up. If you're getting overwhelmed with, oh my God, there's
a lot of ideas. There's so many things I could do. Is it a
workflow? Is it an AI? I have to do it all at once. You don't.
You don't have to do it all at once. You're not late. You can roll
out one tiny little thing. It could be for yourself, like
my idea bank, voice to content bank. I just did that for myself
because it— I needed it and it was fun. Um, you don't have to geek
out like that. You can have other people geek out for
you. The, the main takeaway from that is just
breathe, pick one thing, play with it. See if
you want to use it for yourself, or pick something that is
client-facing and say, I wonder if— one of the key things Marisa just
said is, well, I wonder what it would be like if—
allow yourself to just kind of play with that. And it could be—
the, the beauty of it, Marisa, is that
50 scroll-stopping subject lines— did I get that
right? You got it, you did it. That is a freebie
that Marisa's given away to get just as lead gen to
help people understand who she is and how she teaches for
eons, revamped. So is there something in your business that
you can revamp that's really bite-sized? You know, that's a great
way to start playing with the idea of scaling with
technology without it being really scary.
Yeah, agreed, agreed. When I was thinking about it, I thought, gosh, I don't have
to create something new. Also, you know what's so funny is I've
been really getting into like my human design, and we have one of our epic
people in our program, um, the great Brianna Owen, who
really talks about like human design and email. And so she was
so generous and gave me a session, and something she was telling me about my
human design is she was like, you know, Marisa— and I can't remember what she
was pointing to exactly, but it was like, you know, you never really need
to like start from scratch because
you— and I can't even remember where she said this, but I thought about
that when I was sitting down to, to think about what I would teach for
AI, because I did something different for season 1. And I was like, wait a
second, yeah, I don't think— I was like, I could just do the 50+ girl
stopping subject lines, right? So thinking about what Brianna said too, and I don't think
you need it in your human design, by the way, to know that you don't—
what you said is so true, Troy. Manifesting generator. You don't need— same, I'm
also a manifesting generator. And I think this is it, Tori, because when we're manifesting
generators, I'm like, oh, I should create this, and I I should create this, and
I should create this, and I should create this. And I love creating. So it
was interesting to have Brianna kind of tell me that, because then I was like,
wait a second, I could just revamp the 50+ and I'm— people
are loving, and I had so much fun doing it. I love it. Yeah, I
had the best time doing it. I was like, this is so fun. So yeah.
Yep. I think one of— so little, little story for,
for listeners. One of the first things I
AI'd for myself Who— was Beetlejuice your
brand? Oh, you did? Oh yeah. So I emailed you and you,
you responded. Marisa responds to her emails, guys. I'm like,
oh my God, I just did this with ChatGPT. Oh, I think
I remember this. I Beetlejuiced my brand. I had it
understand the poster and it was so fun and
I got such great magical answers out of it that I was able to use
in my email. That's right. You gave it The Beetlejuice— we can't say it
3 times, but you know what I mean. Yeah, we can't, you know, but the
call— because if you say his name 3 times, he could appear. And if you
say call Beetlejuice 3 times, you gave them that— you gave it
that poster. I did. That I have in the email.
Yeah, cool. I'm like, take this poster, take these 3
ideas, and then interview me to make this thing
happen. Um, and it, it was so much fun and magical. Yeah, I always
say Beetlejuice is the greatest undead Um,
so fun copywriter to learn from.
Yeah, it's a great marketer. Okay, Marisa, if you were
to say what is the biggest takeaway that you
have from this particular conversation, what would that be? I think
it's the permission to sunset the ask me thread and
the idea of like, oh, we, we likely have this already if we just kind
of tune into that a bit more, and it will likely— I mean, we'll find
out, right? That it will be, you know, even
more helpful for people and likely
more effe— for everybody involved. And I think that's going to then
open up space for me because I think you know this about me too, Tori,
sometimes I like pop into the group and I just like do a live. And
I'm like, oh, and I think that will free me up to even do those
fun things more because I'm not like in the weeds of the ask
me thread. The fun of it is really the
key word, is it will feel more fun. Yeah, and
I love popping in and telling people too what I'm learning or what I'm doing,
but sometimes I get the end of a day of doing the ask me thread
and I'm like, oh gosh, I'll, I'll tell them that, that takeaway
tomorrow, you know what I mean? And I want to get back— I was thinking
as I've been going through this whole year, this past year, I was like, oh
no, no, I want to get back to doing those kinds of things that I
loved, um you know, loved doing as much. So I think that is a— I
mean, many takeaways, but that's a— I mean, not only a takeaway, like one we're
actually going to be doing. I know sometimes you come on things, you're like, oh,
I'll think about this. It's like, no, we're going to be doing it. So you
want to come along for the ride, you can come in our community and find
out. Tell me what you think. Yeah, I like that
it doesn't have your brain constantly
worrying about open loops, dropping balls, or leaving someone
hanging. Which is the— okay, I was gonna, I was gonna swear, which is the
stuff that keeps me— I'm not kidding you, I feel like, may she rest in
peace, the great Catherine O'Hara, may she rest— what a legend, how lucky
we were to live in the time. But that Kevin,
I often have that feeling about like nearly everyone in the copy
company. People that the team will ask me, they'll say, oh, so-and-so, and they're like,
oh yeah, I'm not— and I go, and I'll say the last name, and they're
like, how do you literally know every everyone in the society. Yes. Like, they'll say
Cindy, and I'm like, which one? Cindy this or something? They're like, how do you—
and I'm like, Cindy with a Y or Cindy with an I? Sometimes they can't
think of it fast enough, and I'm like, in my body, like, how? And then
I'm like, oh, wait a second, they don't have the brain that I— so I'll
be in the middle of the night and I'm like, oh my God, Tori in
the ask me thread. Like, so I think this
will free me up to do
that. You won't have that panic, that panic anymore.
Yeah. For folks that are— for like entrepreneurs that are
wondering, I'm always on, I'm always on, I'm always on, I don't have a rest
time. And there's that addiction of, well, I don't really want to rest
time. I mean, like, why am I creating an automation on my
weekends? It was fun, but still I was working.
Um, it's— can you— it's not just about giving
yourself permission to relax and let yourself go and,
and recuperate and re-energize. It's making
sure that you feel comfortable and confident doing so, because
there's something that has to replace that energy, and it can
be something that feels more fulfilling and fun and less stressful. And I'm
not saying that you were overwhelmed with stress, but it's that
little nagging feeling of forgetting something, like, oh my God, I
forgot, uh, that— yeah, go away. Yeah, and even when I think about rest too,
I've been thinking about this story. It's like, even like the chance— like, it's not
even like— how do I say this? It's not even
like sleeping. Of course I want to, you know, who doesn't want to sleep
more? Um, but it's like that time for— I think I'm
in my best when I have the space to be
creative. Those are my best emails, those are my best things, those are my
best— yeah. Um, space. Yeah, so
being that person where the depth— to go back to the beginning, what we were
saying, like, that's what I've been on this quest of this year is, is,
is finding a kind of magic
between the two. Uh, yeah,
so yeah, it's— that's— we're doing it, we're making it
happen. Yes. All right, so I want to share a link with
everyone if you're interested in Copy Confidence Society. Getting into
Marisa's world at all, you can go to
toriboots.com/ccs. CCS stands for
Copy Confidence Society. It'll take you right to Marisa's links,
and it'll link to the copy camp, which she has coming
up next week. Next week at the time of this recording. Next week,
right? Oh yes, I always forget about that. I forget about you. I talk like
it's just whatever, and then I go back and listen to stuff and I'm like,
what am I saying? Yeah. The Leave 'Em Wanting More
Masterclass. Mm-hmm. Guys, it's phenomenal. It's so much fun. So that also
leads in. And then when those launches are done, the Copy Confidence
Society itself, you can go— you'll go straight to that page. So don't worry, you'll
always be in on the latest things happening with that link. Marisa, is
there anything else you wanted to share about how people can get in touch with
you and see more? No, I think you covered it. I think Copy Camp is
something brand new that we're doing, which I'm really excited about. Cause I thought, if
we're updating how we are delivering to society, I wanted to
make sure that the selling of it matches that. Yeah, because I think
often, like, I don't know if any— if you're out there and you're listening, very
often the, like, dazzling of the marketing doesn't always match the dazzling of
the deliverability. And that's a whole other episode we could go into why that is.
And no one's— no one's to blame. There's lots of— there.
But I wanted to make sure that if I'm like, hey, we're teaching this live
and we're doing this, this, this, and this, The Leave a Little More Masterclass gives
you a taste of that, and I'm— I love it. I stand by it. I've
been doing it forever. But I felt like I wanted something to kind of come
before that because, you know, um, so the one
of our alum from our community, again, spotting the— I mean, she's
just so talented, the great Sherri Mois, who does astrology and
business strategy, um, just, just no one better.
And, um, she was recently on Emily Reagan's podcast talking about instead of looking at
it as like a trust recession how she's viewing it. And I just
loved this so much. I always love to listen to you all when you're in
your worlds and like, I'm like, ooh, an alumni said this, I gotta go listen
to it. She talked about, it's like, it's a discernment era. People are more discerning
than ever. And I thought, ah, that is, that's it. And that's why I created
Copy Camp because I want people to feel like I want to help you make
the best purchasing decision for you. I know we're gonna deliver on the deliv— I,
I know that we've, I've spent a long, I've worked with the best people. You
know, there's no one better than Dallas Travers. I mean, I've worked with the best
people to make sure that deliverability is gonna be great. But
I wanted to make sure that people could trust that from the beginning. So that's
really— Copy Camp kind of gives you— I'm not selling on Copy Camp. I'm
not selling. Come for the 3 days. We're gonna hang out. I'm gonna show you
how it's done. And then if you're like, ooh, I really want in on this,
then you can come to the Lead and Win at Work Masterclass. And there I'm
gonna sell to you. So I wanted to kind of update— if we're updating on
the inside, I wanted that to be reflected in, in the area. So Copy Camp
is brand new. So I, I'm really excited about it. 3 days of like this
copy immersion, kind of diving in. I'm really excited about it.
So yeah, I am too. Awesome. Great, Risa, thank you so much for joining
us today. And sorry, don't
forget toribose.com/ccs to get into her
world. Awesome, thanks, Tori.