what is up everybody and
welcome to the united
states department of nerds
where we are for the people
by the people and of the
people and as you can see I
already have my guest for
tonight with me we've been
having a great conversation
behind the scenes here but
before we dig into the
hard-hitting questions I
have for fran today let's
hit that beautiful music
You are listening to the USBN on the DSPN.
Thank you.
what is up everybody welcome
again today I have with me
francisco nilo from buenos
aires and if his name
sounds familiar that is
because he is the artist
from the vitalarium comic
book series that I have
been reading uh nicholas
was on the show not that
long ago I think about a
month ago now and I was
like you know what let's have fran on
Let's talk about the art
behind it as well.
But we're going to dig into
some other stuff with Fran as well.
Fran, how are you doing today?
Doing great.
Happy to be here.
Hey, I'm happy to have you on, man.
So real quick,
give a quick intro of
yourself and kind of like
what else you work on.
You don't just do comic books.
You do other things.
Yeah, I've actually studied filmmaking.
I wanted to be a film
director when I was a kid.
so those two things drawing
comic books and and
directing films were two
things that were running
parallel to each other
during pretty much my whole
life until I sort of
dropped the whole
filmmaking thing but I got
to be in contact with other
filmmakers and stuff so I
got to work as a storyboard
artist and a poster artist for
films and for um series I I
worked at a graphic design
place for a couple of years
making designs for netflix
and amc uh that's really
cool yeah yeah so so I got
to learn a lot about you
know those sort of
conversations you get to see you know uh
they were useful later on for,
for comic book covers and all that stuff,
which are not that
different from what you see in your,
in your local.
It's really not.
I mean, if you've seen the,
like behind the scenes on
how movies are made,
they have these huge storyboards.
Yeah.
I mean,
it was just like comic book panels.
I imagine that transition
was pretty easy for you
from doing that to only
you're scaling it down.
Yeah, I'm crazy.
The greatest thing is that I
got to learn more about me,
or a bit more about how to
make comic books through filmmaking,
and vice versa.
Because there are there are
rules to how you tell
stories and where to place the camera,
and certain you know,
the one hundred and eighty
degree angle thing when it comes to
camera placement so that the spectator,
the audience knows what's
happening where.
All that stuff,
it's helped me become a
better comic book artist,
a better storyteller in general,
which is what I've always wanted to do.
So storyboards, comic books, films,
all that stuff, they tell stories.
I love telling stories in a video.
I don't know how many people
have actually got to look at,
I know I shared some of
your artwork when I talked
to Nick on the comic book
and like the art is terrific in it.
Thank you.
And then I'm trying to
remember the name of the colorist.
Chandran Bonsami, he's from India,
which is- But she lives in Egypt,
correct?
From India but lives in Egypt?
I'm not sure where he's in.
I think he's from India,
but other than that.
He's a colorist,
like really good colorist.
Spectacular.
Probably one of the best
I've gotten to collaborate with.
I've let him know about it.
On more than one occasion.
Yeah, no, he's very good.
Especially in issue two,
it's a little bit more
noticeable how good he lays
colors down on top of
colors and the way he layers everything.
And granted,
a lot of that is set up by you
and the artwork that you do.
Yeah,
I did throw him a few curveballs
there because I messed up some stuff.
Like I left a few grays
there that we couldn't.
you know remove and there
was there was stuff that
was made in pencil style
that it wasn't easy to uh
to color and he welcomed
the challenge and he was
excited by it and I think
it shows I think it shows
I'm very excited now issue
two turned out issue two
turned out really well I
was absolutely I loved the
cover like the cover of
issue two was phenomenal
Thank you.
I love the mask that he does, that you do,
like his mask.
That's probably one of my
favorite things about it.
It's amazing.
Painful to draw for more than one page.
And you will see in the next issue,
I will have to draw that
for pretty much half the books.
So I've already started
yesterday with that.
I'm already sort of kicking myself.
It is very detailed.
It is very detailed, but it is,
that's one of my favorite parts.
It really is.
The whole exoskeleton suit
is just phenomenal,
but that mask is what sets
it really apart.
It beat off them.
Dude, definitely.
That extra time you put into that alone,
it paid dividends.
It's amazing to look at.
So let's start from the beginning.
How did you get in contact?
How did Nick go about
getting a hold of you?
And how has that
relationship been with
working on this book, the comic book?
Well,
we actually were introduced to each
other through an Instagram DM by a fellow,
by a friend of ours.
Actually, a guy who I got to work with
like in, uh, or something, uh,
we have tried to make,
we had started a project
for a comic book page, a website, right.
That would host comic books and all that,
that ended up not flying,
but I did end up drawing
like three or four issues
of a comic book there.
and this guy was the editor
uh it seems he was
impressed enough by that so
many years later because it
was twenty twenty three or
something like that by the
time that he reached out
told me I got a friend of
mine who's who's got this
sci-fi project I think it
would be perfect for you
you want me to put you
doing content and that
that's how it started that how we uh
That's how I got to know Nick.
It's been amazing.
He's the most collaborative writer.
You talked to him the other day.
He's very clear.
He's built this whole world
and he's very clear about it,
but he's not overly
precious about it in the
sense that he gives you the
basic structure and he lets
you play on it.
He's very open to
new ideas and new stuff.
For instance,
the helmet that you liked so much,
that was something I came
up with on the spot.
He liked it as it was.
I'm telling everybody that's
going to listen to this later,
if you can look at the
cover for Issue Two, that whole,
the exoskeleton suit, the motorcycle
thing that he rides yeah
yeah the hover bikes yes
they are very detailed very
especially the suit and the
helmet it's it's phenomenal
and that issue two cover
like the moment I seen it I
was like brand he went
above and beyond on this
cover like you didn't have
to go that hard on that cover
Yeah, I'm pretty happy with that cover,
too.
There's a few things along
my career that I'm very happy about.
That cover is one of them.
As it should be.
That cover was phenomenal.
I think, or I hope,
I've set up high
expectations for myself
when it comes to Vitalyrium
to sort of have each issue
sort of improve upon the previous one.
and go further than the previous one did.
So I'm hoping the next issue will be,
as a whole,
one of those things I will be
proud of for years to come.
I don't know.
Dude, you should be.
You've been starting at issue one.
It's phenomenal.
The art's amazing.
The colors, the story,
everything matches the way it should.
It tells the story.
I love the issue, too,
because we got to know
Roman a little bit more
about his vices and
really it gives you that
first breadcrumb of what
the whole entire book is
about yeah yeah so it's
it's really good in that
respect so no you have
every right in dude that's
when I'd be like I drew
this you know but um so
when you first read the uh
concept for vidalirium
what popped into your head
from an art perspective?
How did you see everything?
I know Nick is very detail-oriented,
and I'm sure he gave you a lot of that,
but a lot of that also is
on you on how you layer
things and how you draw things.
So what was the first thing
that came to mind when you
got this initial script for
the first comic book?
Well, when I read the first comic book,
I sort of started looking
for references of similar
comics and stuff,
sort of in my mind's eye.
And there was this comic
book drawn by Nick Klain,
who's a fantastic artist.
He's working on The
Incredible Hulk right now.
Okay.
And there was this book he
made for Image named Drifter.
and that ended up being very
much inspirational of what
the world of vitalarium
looked like in on issue one
okay later on as as uh as
nick told me well I want to
lean more into the um
cyberpunk feel of it I
started pulling from other
references there's this
book by liver mejo uh named
the uh something circle is
it the one that it's
currently rereading right now uh no wait
A Vicious Circle.
A Vicious Circle is a book
by Lieberman Ho and Natsum Tomlin.
I'm a huge fan of Lieberman Ho's artwork.
Okay.
And I ended up pulling from there.
Blade Runner, you know,
once he said cyberpunk,
the gates opened up and it was, oh,
all right, I can go harder on this.
And he did.
Like...
I know I'm going to keep
coming back to the helmet
because I absolutely love the helmet.
Like,
was that just you off the top of your
head or is like,
what was your inspiration
with that helmet?
Cause it's very cyberpunk.
Yeah.
Very almost like Marvel, you know,
like fold up and everything is it.
Well,
I definitely wanted it to be
something that you could
think was sort of folding
on itself and not this sort
of nanotechnology you see
in the MCU nowadays.
Okay,
this can somehow fit in a smaller
space when folded up.
For the look of it,
I sort of drew inspiration I
don't remember who the
artist was that's why it
gives tron vibes yeah it
gives strong vibes and and
there was also um an artist
I don't remember his his
name sadly but uh I
remember seeing he had a
helmet design it was all like one huge uh
a fish helmet you know like
just all black glass and I
thought this looks cool but
I want to show manta from
dc sort of but not that
huge yeah not as big yeah
right um and I I love that
thing where you can
figure out where the eyes
were and where the mouth
was or where the nose was.
No, it's... Blank.
Yeah.
No, you... I thought, hey, this guy, Roman,
is sort of an assassin bounty hunter.
You want him to look menacing,
even if he's sort of,
as you already should do,
he's got a lot of vices and
he's far from perfect.
He can...
He's got that helmet on.
He's menacing as fuck.
You can't tell what's going on.
He also has a lot of... And
I told Nick when I talked to him,
on the cover of the book,
which I know you have,
it gives very strong
Assassin's Creed vibes as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was very much something
that Nick was...
sort of suggesting.
Yeah, I know he's a big fan, yeah.
Yeah,
I don't know how aware he was of the
Assassin's Creed vibes necessarily.
If you look at the front of the cover,
the way the hood is,
he has the hood on and he's
just kind of standing there looking out.
That's where I got, I was like, oh dude,
it looks like, you know,
Assassin's Creed video game cover.
Yeah,
I don't know how aware he was or how
unconscious that was,
how subconscious that was.
from him, but it definitely has that.
You hear it right on the spot.
It's got that vibe.
It's like,
and I'm telling everybody out
there that's going to listen later,
it's like Assassin's Creed, Cyberpunk,
Blade Runner had a
beautiful baby boy and his
name is Roman and he's the
main character of this series.
It's absolutely the world itself.
I know he's got a forty plus page
you know,
Excel word document on just
everything about this book,
about this world that he has built.
And you are the one who brings it to life.
Yeah.
So.
I'm actually not fully aware
of everything he's got planned.
I've got the book here.
He sent it over all the way to Argentina.
So that was a long trip.
Uh,
left the note here and everything,
which I'm very grateful.
I don't think I thanked him
about the note on the first page.
Now I can think of it.
It was a nice gesture.
And it's great.
He sent me over issue one,
and I was just like, dude,
this is really awesome to have.
Oh, yeah.
To me,
that's – I love the smell of a
brand-new comic book.
Yeah.
Or a brand-new book in general,
the smell of the pages.
And it's a different thing
having it on your hand,
sort of flipping through it.
Yes.
I'm a huge fan of that.
It's one thing to read it digitally,
and I've read a lot of
books here lately digitally,
but it's just something, just –
To hold it, yeah.
To hold it, the smell,
the way the paper feels,
everything about it just feels amazing.
Yeah, every time I can,
I try to sort of buy the
most prestige format of the books I like.
Mm-hmm.
You know, the ultimate collection,
all that,
because only the object has that
special feel to it, right?
Yep, yep.
So walk us through, like, your process.
Do you start with thumbnails?
Do you do digital roughs?
Or are you traditional, like,
paper and pencil?
Everybody's kind of different,
and I know a lot of it's digital now.
How do you like to do it?
Well, when it comes to the...
thumbnail process sort of
the initial sketches as I'm
reading the script I like
to work on pencil on paper
just rough stuff and lately
for this next issue
consider this sort of a a
little teaser a little
teaser yeah uh I printed
out these smaller size pages and
So I got the limits of the
page and the sort of the
aspect ratio of the page
and sort of where I can go
and where I cannot, where the bleeds are.
So I start drawing as I read the script,
right?
I do this.
Then I scan it and show it
to Nick for his approval.
This one he approved on the spot.
No revisions, no notes, which was amazing.
He rarely has any notes,
but this time he had zero
notes whatsoever, which was amazing.
It's a crazy episode,
this one that's coming.
I told him at the end of issue two,
I was like, like, I was literally like,
I'm sitting at my desk and
I'm kind of leaned into it, you know,
and I'm like scrolling through it.
And I'm at the, you know,
I got my seat pushed all
the way back and I'm really
leaning into it.
I'm like...
I'm like, we got that first breadcrumb,
which I've already,
I'm in that part of the book, you know,
I've passed it already.
I kind of know where we're going.
Right.
But it was just like,
but seeing it visually, you're like, oh,
that, because you,
at that point you can kind of like, oh,
I know about where I am in
the book with this one.
So I was like, yeah.
Well, here's,
here's sort of funny thing
about this next issue.
It's actually sort of a prequel.
and so we've got some I like
to say sort of like a mix
between Raiders of the Lost
Ark meets Lovecraft he's
got that oh yeah cosmic
horror thing going on in
the background it's it's it's right in
in the sweet spot of the
sort of thing that I like.
I love this sort of thing.
Lovecraft and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Yeah.
And sci-fi on top.
So you've got all the
elements that I love.
So I'm really,
really hyped and really
hopeful that this one turns
out exactly as I imagined.
So I make these little thumbnails,
which these ones,
because I was so excited about,
took forever.
Then I scan them, turn it and go to the,
make a Photoshop file and
start making them the digital inks.
Okay.
For which oftentimes I will
take reference photos, which are actually,
I set my phone, whatever,
on a tripod and take
pictures of myself in different poses.
My girlfriend will laugh at
me as I'm doing it.
Sometimes she will sort of photobomb them.
No, that's awesome, dude.
So there's a folder in my
computer somewhere where I've got – Oh,
you know where it is.
These goofy poses.
And then I start drawing,
and each page takes around
somewhere around –
ten to sixteen hours a page
between because I also do
the lettering which I'm not yeah yeah
know that's part of the like
that's like the one of the
last things that gets done
usually yeah well in this
case since I'm the artist
myself I I do this weird
thing where I place sort of
the reference pictures I've
taken on the page and then
I place the speech bubbles
of speech balloons uh
before I start thinking
because that way I know
where I have to add extra
detail where yeah
where I have to move the artwork.
It's sort of something that
usually letters don't have,
which is that opportunity
to set the lettering
wherever they please and
then have the artwork coming later.
So I bought a book on
lettering to sort of learn, but I read,
I think,
ten pages and haven't had the
time to keep going.
keeps doing it.
No, you're doing it right.
I know me and Nick had this
conversation as well.
Lettering can make or break
a story because if it's too
much or if it eats too much of a panel,
you kind of lose.
Like, oh yeah, I see the words,
but where's the visual that
kind of goes with it?
You know what I'm saying?
You're doing it just fine, man.
I was telling him,
I've seen professional
comic books from Marvel and
from DC that are just...
looked like the letters were
threw up over the page and
it's like yeah like yeah as
I as I started lettering my
own stuff I've been more
I've started to be more uh
understanding of letters
because it's it's hard
without the artwork already
set in it's hard already
but once you deliver you are
delivered the page that's
full color fully fully
drawn and you have to place
the balloons there yeah I I
no thank you stay at the
beginning of the of the queue and
That's why, like,
when I first started doing
my comic book shows,
I wouldn't include the letter.
I wouldn't include, like,
the people who did the colors.
I was just, like, the basic, hey,
here's the guy who draws it.
Here's the guy that did the cover.
Here's the writer.
And then it was Erica Schultz, actually,
who does Rat City.
She does Edge-XXIII.
She's doing...
the new daredevil, the red band series.
And, um,
she actually shot me a message and
was like, Hey,
there's other people that
work on these books.
Can you start including them?
And I was like, yeah.
I mean, if, unless I run out of characters,
then I obviously I can't, but, um,
she was the ones like, Hey,
these people work just as
hard as we do writing and
coloring and drawing.
Do you think you can include them?
I was like,
not a problem you know I I
was like the only reason I
wasn't doing it was because
character space and so I
took out some of this stuff
like I would give my a
little like review at the
bottom so I stopped really
doing the reviews at the
bottom that way I could
actually give credit to
everybody associated with
the book because I think
that means a lot more so
but no I have all the mad
respect for them in the
world because they they
make or break a comic book
sometimes yeah yeah yeah yeah
So I know we've kind of hit
this one before,
but are there any specific
characters or scenes or
sequences that were either
especially fun or kind of
like really hard for you to illustrate?
Whether it was book one or book two.
Well, I think on book one,
I really love drawing Darlie, the sort of
gang boss with the mohawk.
I really have fun drawing him.
It was hard to draw him on
consecutive pages because
of all the tattoos,
but I had a lot of fun with it.
performance of the character.
I mean, he didn't just have tattoos.
He also had the, the, some of the cyber.
Yeah.
He had a jaw and missing a finger as well.
Yeah.
So, well, the action scene on,
on issue one was also super fun to do.
Not there's people who would
like to only draw the action scene on,
on their comic books.
I sort of,
like drawing a bit of everything.
And actually since I struggle to make,
I like to try to make them
feel as dynamic as possible.
And sometimes I feel like
I'm not up there.
So I was really happy with
how it turned out.
And it was both challenging
and fun to make.
It turned out well.
That was one of my favorite scenes.
Like,
cause that really gave you your first
hint
of like, oh, Roman's a badass.
Right, yeah, yeah, exactly.
So I wanted to make, you know,
to actually show that and that it,
since it had been like ten
pages up to that point to
actually pay off.
And it turned out well,
and the fact they got to
draw a very gory action
scene was also very... Yeah, no,
that was...
That was really cool.
That was one of my favorite
scenes in book one was when
he literally was just like,
I'll shoot your finger off
and make you eat it.
I was like, dude, that's cold.
And then he did it.
And then on issue two,
I think my favorite thing,
because I got to experiment a bit.
I'm doing sort of
experimenting with the artwork again.
on issue zero is the dream sequence,
the flashback sequence.
Because I got to sort of imitate,
as far as I'm capable of,
another artist's style,
which is Ricardo Federici.
He's an Italian artist.
I'm nowhere near as good as he is.
But he's got a pencil work
that's just fantastic.
So I got to sort of imitate that style.
We were discussing this
before we went live,
and we were talking about
some of the other artists from Italy.
There's a bunch of them, Spain, the UK,
so many artists out there
that are currently like,
doing Marvel, DC, Image,
other... They're all from Europe.
A lot of them are.
And that's why I have... If
you watch one of my comic book episodes,
I struggle to read some people's names.
Because I'm like...
am I supposed to be putting
like some Italian accent on here?
Like what am I, is it Spanish?
And I'm like,
I'm trying so hard and I've
always felt bad because I
can't pronounce them for shit.
And I try so hard to,
but naturally you go back
and you Google and you're like, Oh, okay.
They're okay.
and I try to do that a lot
more now that as I've as
I've gotten further along
into this if I see a name
and I'm like okay let me
google to see kind of how
I'm supposed to say this
name and then I'll try to
imitate that for a couple
of minutes before but like
there's a I got a whole
episode where it's like
every comic book I'm
talking about is like I'm
about to butcher somebody else's name
yeah yeah yeah well but you
tried that's that's amazing
no I will always try and
their art is so good and
their writing is so good um
I think her name is sonia
matis and I think she's
spanish as well but her art
and her writing is so good
I'll have to check it out
so well I I'll check it out
later because yeah
Like,
when you pass your work off to your
colorists and, like,
how much do y'all talk yourselves?
Like, are y'all, like,
constantly back and forth?
Like, or do you kind of give him a hint of,
like, hey, like, these colors here?
I know Nick is very much
involved in it as well,
but how much are you doing?
Yeah, Nick is very much involved in it,
and he's also the – he
usually leaves some –
color cues, color indication,
color script.
All the other stuff is up to
Chandran and whenever he sort of stays,
whenever he does something too crazy,
he's usually right on the spot.
He usually hits the target perfectly,
but every now and then,
uh there may be a few
changes so he sends a
preview to us before he
actually delivers the
actual high resolution page
um and then if any changes
are necessary usually it's
nick who will act for them
um because I usually enjoy
chandra's coloring as it is
I think he elevated the artwork
No, I enjoy his color,
especially when it comes to
the suit and the scene in
the bar in ASU-I.
I thought the color, it was gritty.
It was dirty.
There was just that right
amount of pops of color.
It was fantastic.
On issue two,
there was something that I
didn't give him any
indications whatsoever.
The last scene, I wanted to sort of be
lead do you remember that
scene the um I think it was
skyfall yeah shame spawn
skyfall there's the scene
where they are fighting and
it's backlit by a neon sign
or I don't know what and I
wanted to sort of give that
scene that feel where we got this
light source that's
constantly moving around.
Yeah, no,
like even like the server farm in there,
the backlights,
everything the way it looks
like it's actually lit up
on the paper is fantastic.
And I didn't tell him anything.
I just drew it and I sent it over and said,
well, let's hope he gets.
Yeah, no, he nailed that.
The colors on those pages
are absolutely amazing.
My jaw was on the floor.
And it's really cool because
it really looks like, especially like me,
I just read the digital version of it.
I haven't seen the hard copy yet.
I'm going to order it.
But it literally looks like on the screen,
like it's actually lit up.
Like the lights and
everything look like they're flickering.
It's really something.
He does such a great job.
Yeah.
I actually met him,
like Chandran came into the
team because I introduced him to Nick.
And Chandran had
collaborated with me on
that previous project with
that other guy who sort of
introduced Nick and myself.
And back then, it was almost ten years ago,
right?
A little less, but almost ten years ago.
and he had blown my mind even back then.
I knew this was the guy I
wanted to color my artwork
moving forward because he
actually elevated.
There's stuff where I drew
and I was like sort of, ah,
and he actually saved the
artwork on more than one occasion.
colors man they're they're
phenomenal the way they can
like the art builds the
initial layers but really
when the color comes in on
top of the art it adds
those additional layers and
you get to see though
everything kind of come
together it's phenomenal
the way and there's stuff
that you and I didn't
notice when I was drawing and it was like
how didn't I pick up that I
had drawn these, you know,
the perspective wrong right
here or whatever.
And I didn't notice them
without the colors.
And the moment he colors them,
it's not noticeable.
But for me who had drawn it, I noticed it.
It makes that much of a difference.
Even for the one who made it, who drew it,
It shows things that were hidden.
But that's good
collaboration between everybody, too,
is you noticing it and like, hey,
I need to fix this and then
send it back real quick.
Exactly.
So, I mean,
it's cool that y'all have that
type of relationship.
I know like he could have
you could have just left it
or he could have just left it alone.
And we as readers wouldn't
probably wouldn't have noticed it.
yeah yeah exactly that's
keeping it professional
keeping it the
collaboration and making
sure that you're putting
your best product out there
and that's that's admirable
and respectable so that's
the spirit um of what we're
doing we're we're giving it
all on the delirium and as
a general sort of a rule of
thumb I try to give it all
with everything that I know
because you never know you know
Like,
this guy who introduced Nick and myself,
he, that project was absolutely,
I was doing it for free.
I was living with my parents.
I have no source of income.
I was, I think I was like,
eighteen or twenty years old, like,
and so,
but I was giving it my all anyway
because I didn't know what might happen.
So, lo and behold,
over about ten years later,
There I was.
Here I am.
I got to work with Nick on
this new project.
I'm super excited.
It was thanks to that other
project in which I gave it my all.
It shows.
Like I said,
the art is terrific in this book.
I'll praise art,
but the way everything
comes together with... I
know it's Nick's words, your art...
And his colors,
everything just fits so well together.
And y'all put together such a great book.
And I'm hoping to get my
whole little collection on it.
I know we mentioned some a
little bit earlier.
Do you have any favorite
software or brushes or
pencils that you like to
use when you're doing your art?
Or are you just like, oh,
here's my pencil?
um different they they're
some are very picky and
will only use certain types
and then I've seen some
that are just like a
pencil's a pencil you know
right um yeah I'm sort of
that that kind of artist
where a pencil is a pencil
I usually work if I'm
working on pencil uh it's
usually an hp pencil which
is sort of medium it's not
too soft it's not too hard
And then for digital,
I bought a Cintiq about two years ago,
so I'm working on that.
Okay.
And on Photoshop,
I'm more comfortable on
Photoshop because I got all
these tricks that I can work on.
I haven't gotten truly used
to using stuff like Clip Studio,
though I did work on Clip
Studio for a while,
but I didn't quite click with it.
And I got an iPad with Procreate too,
but I don't,
I haven't clicked with it either.
There's stuff like, for instance,
the dream sequence on issue two, I did on,
I drew on Procreate.
Okay.
And now that,
that was a good one actually.
Yeah.
Procreate allows you to do
some stuff that Photoshop doesn't,
but then Photoshop has a
few tricks and stuff that
you can do that I feel more
comfortable with.
And I think it adds
versatility to my toolbox, right?
Yeah, OK.
It was one of those.
I know everybody's a little different.
I know some people who
absolutely won't use any
type of digital whatsoever.
They just prefer their
pencils and their inks and their,
you know,
color pencils and magic markers.
Yeah.
I have huge respect for them
because every time you're
asked for a change or whatever,
I often get to redo the whole page.
Exactly.
Or at least a huge part of a page.
It means, you know,
Yeah.
Starting from scratch.
And I, yeah, I tried that once, uh,
it took forever.
So yeah, I've been for a while now.
Okay.
So I know you're working on the delirium.
Are you working on anything
else in the background or
are you just purely focused on.
Well, yeah,
I did finish a comic book page
about a month ago or.
uh a little before I started
working on issue two okay
it's a sort of historical
fiction thing uh it's got
the roosevelt family on it
uh it's it's a really crazy
project with a different writer
totally different feel
totally different aesthetic
art style from I'm really
excited about I think the
writer is going to start
shopping it to different
publishers in the next few
weeks so we'll see what
comes from it but I'm
really excited about that
one it's got a completely
different flavor more of
the it's more of conspiracy
thriller with fantasy
So do you ever find, like,
you accidentally, like,
bleed in your art styles
into one or the other?
Oh.
Like, oh, wait,
that's for this other book over here, or,
like, oh, damn, I, you know.
Because I know you said it's
two different art styles,
but do you ever catch yourself, like, oh,
shit, I kind of am using –
No, not so far.
It may happen eventually though,
but not so far.
I did some of the stuff that
I learned with each other
project I used for issue
two of Vitalyrium, which came right after,
right?
So, so some of the stuff I learned there,
for instance,
for the dream sequence on
issue two of Vitalyrium
that came from what I learned
through the test pages I
made for the other content.
Okay.
That dream sequence was brutal, man.
Like that was... I'm really
happy with how it turned out too.
Because it was a gamble.
It was described in the
script as something different,
more like Gloria, just more traditionally
dream sequence as you have
seen on a movie I said no
let's let's just let's just
try something else let's
make it clear that this is
not reality but let's try a
different style no y'all
know that sequence man that was
Like I said, that was a very brutal,
brutal scene.
It's like your worst nightmare.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm not going to give nothing away,
but damn.
Was that your first time
doing a scene like that?
Because that was a very violent,
very traumatic scene.
I think, yeah.
With that level of violence, yeah.
I've always wanted to do
something that was that horrifying.
I come close to that in one short story,
short comic I got to draw
for a friend of mine,
but this felt more like a
gut punch than that one.
I mean,
that one dream is really kind of
what put Roman where he is.
Yeah, exactly.
There's a sequence coming in
the issue zero that I'm
going to be working on in a
few weeks that I'm really hyped about.
And it's a different feel.
It's not the same.
It's not as brutal,
but it's eerie and it's
creepy and it's got that
cosmic horror film feel to it.
that I'm really,
really hopeful that I can pull off.
I want to do something great.
I'm excited to see it.
I knew y'all were going to
do the first two stories
and then you were going to
give us a prequel.
We're going to start shopping.
Yeah.
Between prequel and prequel.
sort of sequel let's call it
yeah back and forth back
and forth uh it's going to
be a challenge and I'm
really excited because it's
a different approach it is
in both directions uh
that's I know um speaking
of that like it's really
weird that we're talking
about that because um ani
press just released um
the sixth gun last week yeah
it was an issue zero
because they the first one
was done six fifteen years ago
And then now they released the issue zero,
which is three stories
related to the first one,
but it's also going to lead
you into the new one that's
coming this summer.
Cause there,
cause the new six gun is going
to be reborn over the summer.
And I love the artists that
they got and that the
writer is fantastic.
I'm really excited about that one.
And, um,
but I always appreciate an
issue zero or something like that.
Cause there's some stories
out there where you're like, damn,
I kind of wish they would
go back and give me like an issue zero.
So I kind of,
cause sometimes an issue one
just picks up right into it
and you're like,
Well, I don't know what's going on.
Like, how did we get to this point,
though?
Every now and then you'll
get into a later issue and
they'll give you a little
bit of a backstory that led
to that event.
But I do appreciate it.
Issue zero.
And I know you have a whole story,
you and Nick.
of like prequel stories that
we're gonna kind of like
feed up into everything and
then uh that to me is
really cool that y'all are
doing that it's it's risky
it's different and I dude
I'm I'm excited for that
because it's different I'm
really looking forward to
seeing how how nick um
handles it because it's it's
it's challenging building up
that because you you may
end up spoiling stuff on
the sequel issues that you
want to set up first on the
prequel issues it's it's
challenging you could spoil
it or you could build that
up to be like one of those
aha moments you know yeah like oh moment
From a prequel,
it happens three or four
issues further down the road.
Then you've done the job the right way,
and you're like, oh, damn.
That's sort of the idea.
If he pulls that off the correct way,
that's going to be
phenomenal because you
don't ever see stuff like that.
yeah and yeah I'm looking
forward to seeing how that
turns out and it's exciting
because it allows us to to
try different things go
into sort of slightly
different genres within the
same uh the same lore
so yeah I said issue series
more is raiders of the lost
ark meets lovecraft meets a
little bit of cyberpunk and
it's uh and it's a far cry
from issue one or issue two which are
deeply rooted into the cyberpunk genre,
right?
That sort of thing going on there.
No, I'm excited to see it come to life,
man, and to read it.
So it's going to be a good one.
So let me ask you this.
I know you said you did your
very first book for free, basically,
your very first artwork.
You're living at home with
your mom and dad,
and you just did it to get
yourself out there.
what would you tell any
other aspiring artist or
writer or whatever who
wants to work in comic book
or illustration like what
what kind of advice would
you give to them I think
it's well it's key to draw
comic books it's key to
read a lot of comic books
and read them sort of
paying attention to the
artwork because you usually
go from speech bubble to
speech bubble and you don't
pay much attention to it
yeah so actually pay
attention to how it's
how the narration works.
And definitely try to make
your own comics or books or
reach out to someone who
wants to make a comic book and draw them,
write for them.
Even if it's for free,
that works as well because
you get to learn so much by
drawing a comic book.
Yeah.
And if it's a good positive,
like working relationship with the writer,
and you're doing his art,
he's going to give you that
good feedback that you need
to kind of like the refine, like, hey,
in this one section here,
I'm thinking more of this.
And yeah,
and hopefully these up and coming people
who want to get into this line of work,
they take that as a
positive thing instead of
just being very hard on, it's my artwork,
how dare you?
I think that thing is... You
have to swallow your pride a little bit.
You have to be humble about it.
You have to be open to
criticism whenever it's constructive.
You may agree with it or not,
Whichever you think is useful,
you pick up.
Whichever you don't,
you don't get angry about it.
If it comes from a place of
being constructive, it's valid.
If it's not, don't take it as an attack,
right?
And definitely getting to
learn a bit about film
language also helps.
There's something about...
film language, camera placement,
film editing, that is also very,
very helpful for comic book drawing.
Yeah.
And I will say right now, like,
because y'all are taking a
book and taking chapters
and making it into a comic book,
which is difficult in itself.
Yeah.
Because you have to be very selective.
You only get so many pages.
So many words can go on a
page and a chapter from a
book can be eight, ten, twelve pages,
you know, in a in a well-rounded book.
You know,
I've seen some where the chapters
were thirty, forty pages in your life.
I'm not on the next chapter yet.
Like, what's going on?
even though like,
but even within that chapter,
you can kind of feel the
tone and the energy shift.
So you're kind of like,
I kind of feel like I
should have had a new
chapter in there somewhere,
but with comic book,
you don't really get that
too much unless you're
doing what you are doing currently,
which is taking apart a
book and making it into a comic book.
And I know there's a lot of
limitations there in doing that.
So I'm sure you and Nick are,
Like, work together on that because,
you know,
he may want to put so much on one page,
but you can't get that much on one page.
Yeah, exactly.
When he first reached out to me,
he had no experience
whatsoever writing comic books.
And I told him, well,
this is sort of what a
comic book script page looks like.
These are more or less the rules of it.
He produced a first twenty
page script and I went over it and said,
okay, this you can do this.
You can't have to split into
more panels or more pages.
It's been back and forth
like that ever since.
And he's gotten better and
better and more efficient
and more effective with
each passing script.
to the point where issue zero, it was like,
I have no comments, no notes whatsoever.
Yeah, good.
That's awesome.
They have art for references or lore stuff,
but not the storytelling aspect of it.
Yeah.
That's really cool that it's
kind of like a learn on the fly thing.
And especially if you're out there like,
you have this idea and then
it's translating your idea to pages.
Or if you wrote a story and it's like,
well,
I wanna make my story into a comic book.
You gotta understand that
you're gonna lose some of your story.
That's just how it is.
Yeah,
I think he's been very understanding
of that.
And he's also been very
welcoming of the stuff that
sort of is introduced into
the story by me or by Chandran,
by all of us who have been a part of it,
the visual aspect of it.
because we end up introducing stuff,
like I said, like the helmet.
It wasn't defined on the book.
The book doesn't go into
huge detail about what the
armor looks like or what
the helmet looks like.
And that was something that
was introduced through the artwork,
through the visual medium.
So not being overly zealous
or overly precious about
the source material was
something that was very...
I was very happy that Nick
had that approach to it, right?
Yeah, I mean, it still feels like the book,
though.
You know, it doesn't... Like,
when you open the comic book,
you still feel the book.
It's not like you're
completely rewriting everything.
The story is still there from the book.
yeah yeah I I tried to as
best as I could to sort of
translate the feel and the
vibe of the of the book I'm
actually I haven't read the
whole thing I started it
and at some point it was
like no you know what I
want to I don't want to
spoil it for myself I want
to yeah to you know to to
write the story along with the readers
in some sense.
Okay, a few months ahead of them,
but sort of see what sticks, what doesn't,
what's more impactful, what isn't.
That's a smart approach to it.
I mean, it's an approach.
I may be shooting myself in
the foot for the next few issues,
but for these first few ones...
I think it's felt more fresh.
Yeah.
And it's crazy,
because the first few pages
of the delirium of the actual novel,
there's this prologue.
And in and of itself,
the story there could be a
huge series of novels in and of itself.
And it's just a prologue, right?
Yep.
So yeah, when I read that, I was like,
I don't know.
I don't want to know much more.
I want to be surprised and
let that excitement show in the artwork.
No, I mean,
everybody wants to take their
own approach.
Like I said,
I'm still reading the book
about a chapter,
two chapters at a time when
I can squeeze it in between things.
So it's one of those where...
I'll read the book, but I'll also,
I like the comic book
because I'm very much a visual person.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm one of those guys,
when I read a comic book, I read the page,
and then I also look at the
art of the page as well.
Yeah.
It's like I'm reading the
same page multiple times
because if you look at it long enough,
you're going to notice
something that you didn't see before.
Right.
You're going to notice a little detail or,
you know,
one of the people working on the book,
they put a signature on
this poster over here on
the wall that you didn't
really pay attention to, you know,
Easter eggs and that kind of stuff.
And I always think it's cool
when you go back and look
at a book that you
particularly like and you
start finding like little
details within the page
that you didn't see before.
So I'm that guy who it takes
five minutes to read a comic book,
but I'm staring at this
thing for thirty or forty
five minutes because I'm
literally looking at the art.
I'm looking at, you know,
How does the art and the
lettering and all this stuff,
how does it all look together?
And how was it rushed?
And you can kind of tell
sometimes if they kind of
rushed it a little bit.
And were they on their, like,
they were already late.
They've already missed their deadline.
They're just trying to wrap this up.
And you can tell because the
comic book in the beginning,
it's like a masterpiece.
But then as it kind of goes along,
you're kind of like, man,
it kind of got sloppy there at the end,
didn't it?
yeah yeah it's happened with
me for with a few books um
but the opposite has also
happened like to this day I
still every now and then I
pick up like say watchman I
go through it and keep
finding easter eggs in it
dude watchman is a that's a
fantastic series example of
how things are set up from
the very beginning even in
the artwork the face
competition everything that's uh
That's what I mean when I
say if you are an aspiring artist,
you have to read comics conscientiously,
paying attention to it and
paying attention to it,
not just to the anatomy or
the perspective or whatever,
but to the page design,
to the choices that are taken,
where to have backgrounds, where not to,
where, you know, that stuff.
I always like to reference back to...
older Hellblazer comic books,
older Swamp Thing comic books,
because they did such a
good job in that era of details.
Everything is there for a reason.
And I think when I was
talking to Dan Carruthers
last week or the week prior,
we were discussing how George Lucas,
when he builds something,
Nothing is there just because.
Whether it's happening in
the background or if it's
happening right in front of your face,
you probably are going to miss a detail.
And that detail is going to circle back,
whether it be in the same
issue or the same movie.
Or it could come back in
like two or three issues
and then maybe your eye will catch it.
And then you're like, wait,
I've seen that in issue one.
And now you've got yourself
going back to issue one and
you're like paying more attention going –
There it is right there.
And then you're looking at
issue four going, it's right there.
This is going to have a this
is going to play something
later on down the road
because it's not going to
just show up for no reason.
Everything is there for purpose.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think that that era of comic books,
especially with DC Vertigo.
Yeah,
DC Vertigo was above and beyond much
of what was being done back then.
And I'm so glad that they
brought Vertigo back.
Vertigo is back.
They're relaunching.
I remember when they
announced that they were
closing Vertigo and they
sort of stopped publishing Hellblazer.
I think they reached... Yeah,
they just... I was like, why?
This is going well.
This is a huge... It's above
and beyond the quality of
everything else on the market.
It's very gritty and I like
those type of comic books.
They're gritty, they're down and dirty and
Constantine and the Vertigo, Hellblazer,
Swamp Thing.
Yeah.
You know, Justice League Dark.
They've all,
they have that grittiness to them.
And I've always appreciated
and liked that in comic books.
That's why I'm such a big
fan of like indie comic books.
Yeah.
Because they feel gritty and
they feel dirty.
They're not limited by
trying to hit the four quadrants,
as you will.
You know,
they're not going to please anyone.
Everyone and your grandma
with the stories.
They want to tell a story.
Some people like it, okay.
Some people don't.
That's okay, too.
Yep.
And that's what I like about
Marvel now is they have the
Red Band editions where they do that.
It's more of a gritty story.
It's more...
Like, I know if that dude got stabbed,
he's supposed to bleed.
And in the Red Band, guess what?
You're going to get the F-words.
You're going to get the blood, the guts.
If somebody's getting the
shit beat out of them,
it's going to look like
they got the shit beat out of them.
And that's also what I've
always liked of the,
especially the newer era of Image Comics.
Yeah, I love the image.
You can bring that vertical feel to it.
To be bold, to be different,
to do stuff that's sort of
out of the genre stipulations.
I've really enjoyed many of
their books the past few years.
I will always be a fan of Image.
There's been a couple of
other publishers I've
really noticed over the last maybe year,
like Ani Press.
Oh, yeah.
I love their work.
They do some of the best
horror comic books out there.
Yeah, yeah.
I've read some of them.
I think I read something he
– Warren Ellis wrote Super
Gods or something like that.
Okay.
only press and was cosmic
horror done well they are
very good at what they do
and um I I follow their uh
their one of their editors
is on blue sky and the guy
who runs the show is on
blue sky and um if you
shout them out they're like
hey man we appreciate you
you know liking our what
you know the stuff and
And they do a lot of fun stuff too,
don't get me wrong.
They have some very
cartoonish books as well,
but they do horror right.
And I will always appreciate
a good horror comic book.
Epitaphs from the Abyss is
such a fantastic series.
Every issue is like three stories,
and they have different writers.
different artists all collab
on these projects,
and it's such a fantastic series.
Yeah.
I have that one on my list,
because just the covers alone are... Yeah,
they always, like,
they have that old-school feel to them,
you know?
Like a Creepshow.
Yes, yes.
Like, and I love Creepshow.
Creepshow is one of my
favorite comic books of all time,
and I will always, like,
They do one-shots here and there.
They just wrapped up a full
run of Creepshow not that long ago.
And I will always appreciate a good,
gritty horror book.
And like I said, Ani Press, I think,
is probably one of the
better ones out there doing it right now.
Yeah,
and there was this book that I think
is still coming out where
Garth Ennis wrote
short story that was an episode per issue.
It was also an anthology book.
I love a good anthology.
Boom Studios has Hello Darkness,
which is based off of Arnold's eye.
Yeah.
Love that one.
The new issue is out tomorrow.
New issue tomorrow.
I'll be checking it out.
Hello, Darkness, dude.
Again, it was originally done by R.L.
Stine, but he invites other writers,
and there's all different
artists that collaborate on it.
The current ones that are
going on right now, like the covers,
he has covers by Jenny Frism,
who I absolutely love her work.
The way she does colors, and it's like
They are so soft.
They're very soft.
And, like,
a feminine face is very feminine
with her.
Yeah.
Like, dude, she's phenomenal.
And she also, like,
all her covers she's done
for something is killing the children.
Yeah.
Phenomenal, phenomenal stuff.
Pinion makes some really great horror.
Dude.
They are very character-driven.
That's what I love about them.
and the fact that he he just
started tiny onion his own
company is that much better
yeah and I've always like
ever since I learned who he
was with something that's
killing the children and
house of slaughter I've
gone back and bought some
of his other boats his
older stuff as well and uh
he's so talented he's got
so much going on world tree
is really good
Department of Truth is one
of my favorites.
Department of Truth.
Oh, dude.
I got it signed.
I got it signed Department of Truth.
I'm very much a fan of Jonathan Hickman.
Yes.
And I was sort of, you know,
do you remember the Black Monday Murders?
Yeah.
That one sort of,
that book sort of stopped the,
I think the artist had
health issues and they
couldn't keep making it.
Mark Spears.
Oof.
Phenomenal.
That's an ESM homage.
Mark Spears.
Here's the one I was looking
for right here, though.
Michael W. Conrad, Plague House.
Big house.
He also does Arnie Press.
He works with Arnie Press
and does Epitaphs from the
Abyss and stuff like that.
Oh, okay.
So he's part of the team of
Epitaphs of the Abyss.
Yeah.
And I think Boom is doing a
fantastic job right now too
with their horror lineup.
And I really like Keen Spot a lot.
Mad Cave is really good.
Mad Cave does Pop Kill.
Yeah, I haven't read it.
With a Jimmy Palmiotti,
who's another fantastic writer.
Yeah, a legend.
Oh, dude, and super nice guy as well.
So one of the characters
from Epitaphs of the Abyss
is doing their – they
basically spun her out of it,
and she's getting her own
series by Corrine Becchio or Corrine –
Beko I can't I'm not sure
how to pronounce her last
name but she wrote a short
story about a vampire in
there and um it's now doing
its own thing and it comes
out tomorrow as well and
it's going to be really
really dope the real Randy
Chavez great show with Dan
Carruthers hey thank you he
was such a pleasure to have
on and his New Zealand accent was just
love those accents I mean I
know I'm I'm southern but
you can't tell as much
anymore but he was such a
fun guy to have on and um
but no horror comics and
sci-fi like darker sci-fi I
will always like that's why
I've loved image and boom
studios the keen spot um
horror is something I want to
to actually draw.
I haven't had the chance to properly make,
you know,
collaborate with something on
that in that genre.
So I have something I'm working on.
I have to actually sit down
and write the whole thing.
It's deeply rooted into the
anthology horror series.
Whenever I get to make it,
you will be the first to
know because I think we are
sort of in that sense.
Come back on, man,
and we'll talk about it.
Um, there's a book out, I think it's on,
I can't remember if it's on
boom studios or dynamite or dark horse.
It might be dark horse,
but it's called Los
Mastrinos and it's takes
place in like the nineteen fifties.
And, um,
it's about a werewolf private
investigator and Los
Mastrinos is kind of like Los Angeles,
but it's for monsters.
It's like all your classic
movie monsters make up this
city and it was just such a good read.
The whole concept was amazing.
A werewolf private
investigator investigating
the disappearance of a
vampire princess or a vampire heiress.
I was like, dude, I love this concept.
It is such a dope concept.
Noir and classic horror...
classic horror monsters nice
yeah anything like it's in
a certain yeah gun honey if
you like crying nor that's
like kind of gritty and
kind of like fits that pulp
feel oh gun honey is really good
I'm writing all this down
because I got to know about
so many comic books I
wasn't aware of through your podcast.
No, I appreciate that.
To me, that's what I do.
I'm not just presenting.
I actually read these comic books.
Yeah.
Like,
there's always a box underneath my
desk of what I'm currently reading.
And once they're read,
they kind of go to their other bots.
But and I could be like a
week behind sometimes I'll get like,
especially if it's like a
thicker comic book, like, yeah,
eight pages.
It's like, okay.
And especially like I said,
with the way I read, yeah,
difficult sometimes.
So
But no, it's like I told Nick, I'm like,
hey,
if you ever need a suggestion on
something, just hit me up.
I'm like,
I'm just literally a message away.
There's nobody else
answering my messages but me, so.
Awesome.
Yeah, I definitely will.
Let's wrap it up, man.
I don't want to eat up too
much of your time.
Tell everybody where they can find you.
Well, you can find me on Instagram as
F-A-H underscore draws, like drawing.
I'm setting up a personal website,
but that's slow progress between working.
And you can find me pretty
much everywhere as
Francisco Nilo with an H at
the beginning of the last name.
It's a strange enough last
name that I'm easy to find.
yeah and you actually found
me like when I first
announced I was going to be
doing uh the interview with
nick and we just kind of
like started talking back
and forth and getting to
have you on the show that
means a lot to me because I
get to you know talk to
both you and nick and I
still talk to nick like he
wasn't just a passing like
oh I interviewed him it's
done no I mean we every now
and then he's shooting my
message you know and it's it's really
I enjoy keeping contact with everybody.
I still talk to Bruno here and there.
I know he's got a new
Kickstarter coming up,
so hopefully he'll come
back on the show and we'll
talk about his new Kickstarter as well.
And hopefully, dude,
you're welcome back anytime, man.
I would be really, really happy to.
It's been a pleasure, this whole talk.
I arrived like, fifteen,
twenty minutes earlier.
Yeah,
we had a whole conversation before we
even started.
So it was a fun time.
And you were like, like I told you, man,
you're the first person to show up early.
I thought it was really cool.
We were right on the same wavelength too.
I was sending you the link
and you were asking for the
link at that almost the same time.
I was like, Oh, you're looking for this.
And like, you're like, Oh yeah,
that's what I was looking for.
Cause most people are
expecting it to be in the invite.
I send them, but I do it the same day.
It generates a link to the thing.
And it's just easier that way.
I normally send it about about, you know,
So before I let you go, though,
tell everybody what you're
watching right now.
Are you watching any specific TV show,
or are you reading
something in particular?
Well,
I'm reading a lot of comic books and
keeping up with a lot of comic books.
Right now,
I'm reading an old book named Lord,
drawn by Ashley Wood, a fantastic artist.
And, uh,
I'm watching love death and robots, uh,
every now and then,
whenever I make breaks from drawing, uh,
with my girlfriend,
I'm watching you because.
Hey, that's actually really good.
Yeah.
My daughter really likes that one too.
She's she's watching that one.
All right.
Nah, that's actually good.
So we'll close it out right there,
everybody.
Thanks, everybody, for tuning in.
Fran,
I can't thank you enough for coming
on the show and talking
about not just vitilirium,
but also everything that
you have going on in your life.
With that, everybody, Fran,
welcome to the Council of Nerds,
my friend.
Everybody else, thanks for tuning in.
We'll see you on the next one.