Welcome to the Connected Mom podcast where we have real conversations helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your fellow moms, and more intentionally with your child. I'm Becky Harling, your host, and I have with me today my amazing co host, who is I got to tell you this about Sarah before we get any further. Sarah is my co host and she is the technological one out of the two of us. So she can fix any technological problem that we're having, which I cannot do. So welcome, Sarah.
It's super good to be with you.
And it's so fun to have two guests today, Becky. So let's chat about what we're going to talk about with them.
I know. So we have two guests today and we're going to talk about theology. Look at us, Sarah. We're being theologians in the midst of motherhood. Sarah is a motherhood.
But, um, I'm hoping that it comes down on me from the wisdom.
Yeah. So I think a lot of times, Sarah, the word theology freaks people out. And they're like, oh, man, I don't know. I don't know what to do with theology. I don't know if I have any theology. I don't know what it means. But our guest today wrote an amazing book together called Flash Theology. And I have looked through this book so many times and it's amazing. So let me introduce them. Um, Jenny Randall has been on before with us. If you haven't listened to that podcast, it's a lot of fun because Jenny challenged both Sarah and I to make up a rap on the spot. Mine was awful. Sarah's was great. But anyway, Jenny Randall is an Emmy Award winning editor who went on a journey to discover what it really means to live on purpose. From a career in the heart of Hollywood to a Bible teacher, that's quite a journey. She has written several books. She and her husband Matt formed Freedom Creatives. She is the author of Courageous Creative getting to Know God's Voice, Dreams Come True. And now flash theology. She's getting her masters from Asbury Seminary, which that has been all over the news. Asbury Seminary. So I hope you're following that. And then we have Brayden Brookshire. Braden holds an Ma in New Testament Research and a, uh, BA in, um, Biblical studies from Horizon University, with both including an emphasis on Biblical Greek exegesis. I remember taking Greek Braden in Bible college. His passion is to help people feel the wonder and adventure of knowing God by taking people into an exploration of Scripture. Braden is a professor at Horizon University, where he teaches Greek and various courses on the New Testament. He's also on staff at newbreak Church in San Diego, California. He's married to Ariana and a father to his son, Cairo. He has a podcast called Adventures in Theology. Anyway, welcome, guys. We're excited to have you on.
Awesome.
Um, yeah, thanks so much.
You make us sound really fancier than we actually are. So, hello.
You are fancy. And what's intriguing about the fact that you wrote this book together is that you're in laws, right? You're each married to a sibling. Am I getting this correct? One of you correct me if I'm not getting it correct.
Yes. My husband, his sister married Braden. Did I say that?
Wait. Oh, yeah. No, you're right.
I said it right.
I think there was a better way you could have said, that works.
Welcome, Braden, to the show. Yeah, somebody corrected us, and they said, you're not in laws. So now we have this question mark around how do we describe it?
In laws. So that person needs to reset.
Yeah, that is in laws.
That's the very definition of in laws.
Yes. And sometimes in laws don't get along. I mean, right. You marry into a family, in our family. So we have four adult kids, and, uh, the in laws, we don't call them in laws. Our kids all call them the Marians. So the Marians bring a whole new element to our family, and it's a lot of fun. Um, anyway, you wrote this book on theology, and how would you guys even describe what theology is? Because a lot of mamas right now are thinking, I'm trying to listen to this. What in the world even is theology?
Braden, do you want to jump in?
Oh, sure, yeah. I mean, theology is not actually that big of a word. I think, unfortunately, a lot of people think of this as something that's only for academics or pastors. But actually, theology is simply the art of knowing God. And so, technically, we're all invited on a journey to engage theology. And technically, I would say every single person engages theology without even knowing it. So even if you're not a Christian, I even talk to non Christians who are engaging theology because they are making statements about God. A statement or belief about God is a theological statement. To say Jesus is Lord is a theological statement. To say that God loves you is a theological statement. And so I know we're talking to moms, and I'm so happy about that, because moms are engaging in theology every single day, and they get some of the most important moments with their kids and providing a theological foundation. So I know we're going to have a conversation, but if I can just set the tone right now, I'm going to say this simply, moms, after you're done here in this conversation, you're going to know that you are a theologian, providing some of the most important work in the kids lives and setting a theological foundation. So here's to you.
Boom. That was well done, Brayden. I've been some of our mamas.
Yeah. Now you know why we've partnered together. His pastoral heart. Huh? Huh?
Yeah, right? It was amazing. Okay, so tell us a little bit about why did you write this book what prompted you to write a book on theology?
Yeah, so you guys might laugh at me, and maybe some of the listeners will understand, but I became a Christian at 18, and I used to just open the Bible, and where it landed, it landed, and the Lord was speaking to me, and I didn't understand the context of why it was written. And then the next day, I just open it, and the Lord was speaking directly to me, and I just didn't have a method or rhyme or a reason. And then as I matured, as we all do, I began to understand how to actually study the Bible and understand the context around it. And in the process of maturing, the Lord called me into writing and into speaking. And there's a weight to what we do as ministers, and I didn't feel equipped to do that alone. So I invited Braden in to be my academic theologian on my book. So I would just pay them measly pennies and be like, can you make sure I'm not making stuff up? And we just loved collaborating together. And in family functions, we would just hang out and talk theology, and my husband would be like, can you guys talk about something else? Can we move this party along? So we always dreamed about collaborating on a project together. And you guys know, from our last podcast, we were talking about creativity. My creative brain wanted to take these big truths and really figure out a way that we can walk people through what it looks like to know God, who he is, and have these foundational truths not only impact our relationship with God, but help us disciple others. And Braden is so passionate about theology, as well. So this project is the best of both of our brains, and we have had so much fun working together in this capacity.
Wow, sarah, that's awesome.
Yeah.
So, Braden, you already kind of talked about this, but I'm really intrigued with what you said about Moms parents really being such an important theologian in their kids life. So can you break that down? What do you mean by that? I know that our big ideas about God matter, but how do you see that kind of infiltrating our family with theology?
Yeah, I mean, uh, even if you're a very involved parent at your church, you get 1 hour on Sunday, maybe two, and then you may be on the mid week if you attend, uh, one or two more hours. But if you think about it, how many more? It's over 100 hours more of your week with your kids consciously, uh, being able to chance to engage them. And so, as parents, we have a really important role, and I think often there's been this shift where we, uh, expect, okay, those who work at a church get time with my kids, and they get a chance to give them a theological foundation because that's too big for me. And I think there's a sense where we need both, uh, to put more of the magnitude of what we do at home, uh, back into our own ownership. But we also need to lighten our heart on this, too. Let me talk briefly about both those, because since you have the most time with your kids, you have the most chance to shape their brain, uh, on how we think about God. And that's so important. But let me just say that we can have fun with it, that we can also do it in ways that even if you don't know the answers, that's okay. My challenge to parents is this share as you go and share as you grow. Because you're going to have opportunities everywhere. You're going to share about Jesus, but you're also going to be able to share as you grow. So my challenge is to be able to be like, hey, I'm still learning and to be learning. And if you've become stagnant in your learning journey, then this is your wake up call. This is a chance to be like, you know what? I do want to learn more because I have an important role with my kids. I'm not going to leave it up to someone else to shape them. Yeah, people are going to come alongside, and I hope your church is doing a great job with that, too. But you have the most time, and so this is just providing more dignity to that. And so I think Flash theology provides you a creative, fun, engaging resource to be able to give you some ideas of some truths to nurture you, but maybe also to translate to your kids as well.
Yeah, I love that so much. Braden I'm I'm thinking back. So my husband and I, um, raised four kids. We now have 14 grandkids. And so I know it is a wow. It was like a grandkid explosion, and it's been amazing. Anyway, uh, we had three of them over a couple of weeks ago for spaghetti dinner with papa because my husband loves spaghetti and brownies. So that's what we were serving. So we had these little boys around the table. Two of them are in first grade and one is in 6th grade. So we had this big conversation about prayer. And the seven year olds were saying, well, my mom prays when she talks me into bed at night. Um, she prays before meals. They were listing all these times. And Steve and I were sitting quietly and our older grandson, who's twelve, interrupted them and said, guys, your moms pray a whole lot more than that. They're just praying in their hearts and you don't hear it, you know? But I thought it opened up such a great theological discussion on prayer, and it wasn't a formal. Sit down, guys, we're going to teach you about prayer. It was around spaghetti and brownies and laughter and fun. I love the vision of your book. And as I look through it, I love how you have central truth standing out, that a mom can look through this book and think, uh, okay, I got to make sure my kid knows this. God wants a relationship with you because he loves you. And sometimes it's just a simple beginning to a conversation such as that. So how does theology make Scripture more accessible? How does your book make Scripture more accessible to readers?
Well, so for me, when I was telling you how I used to read the Bible, the Bible was all about me, and I was very self focused in the reflection of it, which we can relate the Bible to ourselves, but that's secondary, right? We need to know this bigger picture of who God is. And what we like to communicate through our work is that this meta narrative of the Bible, which is Jesus, is woven throughout the Old Testament, to the New Testament. Um, so we always are talking about how it's the greatest love story ever told, and there's this rescue plan unfolding. And even that even teaching our kids. That is such a theological statement, right? Like, what are we being rescued from? What are we being rescued for? And then when they encounter brokenness in the world, as they will through themselves or through classmates around them or circumstances, we get to point them to Jesus. So our book really tried to do that. And we also teach about the triune. God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And we really tried to communicate through Scripture, uh, how they interact, even through salvation. And what person of the Trinity is? Um father God. Like, just kind of taking this larger conversation and really making it accessible. And every chapter starts off with an annotated Bible verse. So we're inadvertently, like, teaching you how to study the Bible without saying, this is how you'll study Scripture. So there's just a lot of moving pieces to it that we, uh, pray and hope are really discipling the reader to practice spiritual disciplines on their own and to have those hard conversations with the kids so they can feel comfortable pointing their kids to Jesus, uh, and have the knowledge to do that as well. Yeah.
And graphics in the book are phenomenal. Was that your creative idea, or was it cooks? Whoever set this book up was completely brilliant with the graphics because it's so easy. It makes everything easy.
So I love it. We both dreamed into it, and they were like, we'll give you all the colors. We'll design it. So they took it next level. And we originally braden, I was laughing about this the other day because when we originally were planning it, we wanted one theological truth on one page. Each was going to be a page. But as we were writing, we were like, we can't just do a page for each because every concept, there's such depth to it. Um, so as you'll see if you have the resource, it expanded since that thought. But yeah, the graphically driven was always our desire in this project because it too impacts those visual learners.
That was what we had to wrestle with, is to make trues accessible, but also not overly you can simplify to a fault as well. That can happen. And so that's why the length of the chapters are between three to five pages, which again, even with lots of visuals and graphics, they're not that long to read when you actually look at word count. But that was the key for us is realizing, okay, there's no way we're going to be able to communicate this in one page. So it takes a few more than that. So part of the fun though, right? Making it accessible but not compromising the depth of what we're trying to talk about.
Yeah, I love it and it's so well set up. I mean, they have these different, um, chapters. God is just. God is peace. God listens. I mean these are all concepts that really no matter how old your child is, you can begin the conversation now. Some of them, it might be a conversation you carry on much later when they're more mature and can really understand that. But these are concepts that I feel like a lot of kids can understand if you help them. Right?
Yeah, no, totally. I mean, this book is written to adults, make, uh, no mistake. But that would be our hope, is that these are providing truths that again, we work in us. And so we can work it out as well through conversations. Like you said, a lot of these conversations are happening around the dinner table, but so did Jesus's ministry.
Yeah.
M, that was good.
Okay, so I have to go backwards for just a second because when I think of flash, I think of a flash mob. Jenny so I'm kind of like expecting you guys to be doing this dance or something.
Are you ready to perform it? Did you do that? Next? Let's hit it.
Um, but I am curious. I mean, my husband went to seminary, a theological seminary. That big word. And we have volumes of books. So tell us a little bit why, what's behind the word flash theology? Becky has described some of it, but if you could give us a little bit more intel on that title.
Yeah, so originally it was going to be flash like quick and Get It in Your Soul. And here are some quick things about God. But as we, like I said, started writing and we would have these long meetings about different chapters and we just so enjoyed when you talk to a friend and you start asking harder questions and then that produces greater thought and then it produces harder questions. Those were our conversations. And we're like, okay, this isn't flash as in fast, but this is flash as in deep, and, uh, the hope is that it produces this bright light where we're able to shine forth. So if you look up the definition of flash, we just said this is a burst of bright light as you study God. So that's really our hope. Not only are we knowing who God is, but it's transforming us to look like Him to the world around us and within our family structure as well.
I love that. I love that.
That's awesome. One more follow up question. So Becky had pulled out. One of the big topics you guys talk about is being fully known by God, among many other things. But we thought we'd maybe drill down on that for a second. How does that relate to parents maybe even being a comfort to parents that being fully known by God?
Yeah, we're so busy, right, like, juggling all the things, tackling all the to do list. I, um, feel like we're just constantly spinning all these plates, trying not to drop anything. Um, and then when they do, it's like, oh, my gosh, nervous breakdown. Maybe just me. But there's a lot of things we, uh, have to manage and be in charge of, and to know that God knows us to the core of who we are, what we're struggling with, what we're thinking about, what we're working on, what our hope is for our children, what our desire is in parenting. Gosh, he's so good and he's so faithful, and he tends to us in ways we can't manipulate or create on our own. And I just think being fully known by God is this beautiful thing to really embrace, because life is hard, right? And when circumstance is struggling, we know that there's a God who loves us regardless. When we feel like we're the greatest mom or dad in the world, we know there's a God who will take us down a notch and help us, um, remind us to look towards Him for our strength, not ourselves. So being known fully by God gosh, what a thing to help our kids see, because this is where identity comes from, right? And they're not going to be chasing things of this world, but they're going to be looking towards God to shape their identity. And if we can fully embrace that thought yet, I don't know if our brains fully can, because we're human, but if we can remember that and remind our children of that, we are truly loved by a God who sees everything within us, and, uh, it's remarkable to think about. Brandon, do you have anything you want to expand on in that?
I, uh, think that, again, part of the reason why some people treat theology as, like, some inaccessible, dirty word is because they don't see how it's practical or whatever. But I think theology is inherently practical. And so when people think it's not practical, that's like a category error. And so the thing is, these are big truths about God, but all these truths about God always touch the ground in our daily life and even the dirt of our life. And so I can't think of a single chapter that doesn't have some relevance of how that shapes a mindset of how I go throughout my day. When we think about the fact of how God listens to us, that's really important. As you're really frustrated and you go throughout your day and you're praying honestly and candidly to God, you know, you're listening to a God who hears, which is easy to take for granted, but at least in the ancient world, was not the case. The gods might not have been listening to you. Uh, they could have actually been very well busy or something else. And so these are truths that need to be internalized because this does affect how we do live and relate not only to God, but then how we handle even, like, our mental health. And so I think that theology is one of the most important things when it comes to the even bigger discussion of things like mental health.
Yeah, I agree with you. Um, it's interesting because, uh, my son is raising two little boys. Uh, so one is ten and one is seven. And the ten year old was struggling with quite a bit of anxiety. My son, one of his favorite psalms is Psalm 139, which, of course, talks about how God knows us, how he's known us from the womb, how he hems us in behind him before and will never leave us. You know, and so my son, JJ, he rewrote that psalm for his son, Joshi. And so, as parents, as we internalize these truths, hey, God completely knows me, and yet he completely loves me. I never have to hide from God. Then that spills out to our kids and they begin to see God as a safe place to pour out their hearts before the Lord. Uh, they don't have to be ashamed when they're afraid or when they're anxious. They can go back to those truths that they've learned about God. I just love that you guys focus on that in your book. And the God who listens. Like, as we were talking, our kids need to know, hey, if you're in school, if you're on the playground, if you're playing soccer, if you're playing football, if you're performing in some art thing, and you need to talk to God, he's always there listening, always. And so you can talk to Him anywhere. And as we internalize those truths as parents, I think it becomes easier then to share them with our kids. So, Jenny, um, switching topics for just a second here. You are a former Hollywood Emmy award winning editor. First of all, what did you edit?
Uh, lots of stuff, but for that it was a PBS television show about science.
Oh, look at you, you're a creative scientist. Um, so.
I won't take it that far. Becky, amazing editor.
It was just a thought. Okay. So how has your former life and what you experienced in Hollywood, how has that impacted or informed your motherhood journey?
Yeah, well, uh, my wheels are always spinning in the vein of creativity. Like, I'm always thinking, how can we communicate? Or how can we because I'm not a maths person. I'm just going to say I count on my fingers like, that I cannot do fourth grade math. Don't even sign me up. Right. So when you say you're a scientist, I'm like, well, um, but I'm always thinking of creative expression, like, how can we take this a step further? And also, whenever I teach stuff, I'm always thinking, how can this not only be taught, but how can it be applied to the life of the person walking through it? So my backgrounds in Hollywood and all the creative ventures have, um, really toughened me up to take creative risks in ways that it really just catapulted me into all these different creative avenues. And when I became a mom, um, I began to see the creativity in my own kids, which we talked about on the last episode I was on alongside you guys. So in the realm of theology and creativity, I think, like, Braden touched on, um, briefly. It can feel kind of stuffy or even scary to think, oh, I'm a theologian, or Our children are theologians. Um, but when you study the biblical God, you are studying God himself. You are a theologian. So what are the creative ways as a mom? I can communicate that to my kids. So a lot of times it's in the car, we'll listen to a worship song, and I'll pause that, and I'll be like, so what do you think we're singing about? About God? That's such an easy question. What are we learning about God in this moment? And their opinions are different, and I love it because it just brings us into this holy moment of reflecting on who God is. Or after kids church, I'll pick them up and I'll be like, so what did you learn about God? What character trait? Like, what's one word? You can summarize what you learned about God, and it's just fascinating how their brains work. I have an eleven and a nine year old. Braden has a toddler. He's in the toddler stage, right, too.
Yeah.
So it's fun just to see the different ways that God has this parenting, um, and pulling these truths out of them and instilling it in them as well. And it's been really fun. And it's not always formal like Braden touched on. It's not always as formal, like, let's sit around and study our Bible for 20 hours. It's just really organic of being a parent, too, to what the Holy Spirit is. Um, how he's moving and transforming not only our family, but the life of our kids, and also seeing the potential that they have and the giftings that they're walking in and then obviously equating that to the power of God moving and ministering in their lives.
Yeah. No one's going to be able to speak better to your kids than you because you can translate, you know, their language, you know, like them better. And so that's why I can speak to Cairo, my son, better than some stranger can, and vice versa with all these things. And that's why it's important for us to take ownership on having these conversations.
Yeah. So I wanted to ask you, Braden, um, so you've got this two year old. How have you because we have a lot of mamas, probably, that are listening, that have toddlers. So how have you begun to have conversations with your two year old about God?
Yeah, fantastic question. Yeah. So, first of all, context, uh, this is actually a few years ago now, but, um, I had someone at our church who asked. They had about, uh, a girl who's about to turn three. And they're like, okay, so when can we start talking to her about Jesus? And it's like, oh, uh, three years ago.
Yeah.
Honestly, though, because some people think here's the thing. We underestimate our kids so easily. First of all, they're learning so much. I mean, if you think about even the toddler stage. So for your moms out there who have like a one, two year old, three year old, think about how much they already learn every day, like fire truck, trash truck, like all the words of bubbles. But they even think conceptually, too. And so I'm not saying that Cairo is walking around with theology on his brain, but I am saying that it's amazing how much he can retain. So setting habits and rhythms are the key. And so, for example, the little things like praying at the dinner table. Now, if we don't pray, first thing, Cairo holds out you can't see this on video, but Kyra holds out his hands and folds them together and looks at us and goes, uh, uh. Because he wants us to pray. He knows. And he likes prayer. There are certain blessings we say over him every night and things like that. And then throughout the day, I try to find any opportunity just to start putting things in his brain. So as we talk about, wow, Cairo, look at these beautiful colors. This teaches us so much about God. He loves beauty. He is so creative. Look at that. He created you. And you are way more beautiful than these flowers. Like like, it's it's so organic to use that word again. Like and you're going to do it in your own personality, in your own way, in a way that connects with your kid. But the point is just to try. What's the worst that happens? You say something about God that in terms of didn't land with your kid. Okay, that's fine. Keep trying. But. The problem is when we actually don't try.
Yeah, I agree with you. I just think m it needs to be a natural conversation that's kind of continual rather than at the time that I grew up, my parents were all about family devotions, which, I mean, I kind of have to say it was a bust, uh, because we were four kids who didn't want to listen and got in trouble every night. When Steve and I were raising our kids, we tried to do it different. We tried to just do it natural conversations along the way. And we did use rhythms, but we made it a little lighter. Not like shoving it down their throats, but just inviting them into conversations about Jesus and letting them know that Jesus loved them. And I love your comment about kids being able to understand far more than we give them credit for. You know, as as a kid, I was three years old when I accepted Jesus into my life, and I remember it like it was yesterday. And I know for sure that that's when my relationship with Jesus started. And so kids are far more receptive. I always like to go back to Jesus said that if you're going to have faith, you got to become like a child. And I think sometimes as parents, we make it more complicated than it really is, whereas kids can believe in Jesus very easily and it's just simple faith to them, which is such a beautiful thing. And so we're almost out of time, but I love this book so much, guys. I'm so excited about it. And Moms, you need to get this book because if you're wondering, like, how do I start the journey on discipling my child? The book is written for you, but you can take those concepts and start thinking about, how can I bring this into family dinners or into playtime or whatever to begin the conversations with your kids. So make sure you order a copy of Flash Theology because it is seriously fantastic. And I don't say that lightly. Hey, Jenny, as we close out and, um, before I ask you to do that, sarah will make sure that both of their contact is in the show notes correct. So that our listeners can get in touch with them, uh, because they'll want to follow you on social media and all the things. But Jenny, would you just close us out in prayer and just pray for the moms? I mean, I think we've given them a lot to think about, and maybe some of them are like, whoa, I don't know what to do with all this. But for others, they're ready to take a step and that's cool. So would you pray for them, please?
I would love to, Father. God, I just lift up every woman under the sound of my voice. And we can include Braden in this as well. God, I just lift up every person listening right now and I just pray that you become even more real to us, Lord, that this conversation wasn't overwhelming, but that it was equipping. God, I pray in the way we manage our homes and those around us, sometimes we feel this need to micromanage, but I pray that we give our kids not only an equipping of who you are, but ownership to lean into who you are even greater. God, I thank you for instilling in us, um, morals and values and helping us know who you are. Lord, I pray for those who struggle with some aspects of who you are, like God is. Father, I pray for the woman that might not really fully understand that. I pray for an awakening toward that truth. God, I pray for those who don't understand you as Savior. Lord, I pray that you become real in, uh, the rescuing of their life and and within their story. God. I pray that we partner with you in these truths as we walk out being a theologian. And we bring that to our homes, to our kids. And we teach them about the fairy truth of who God is so that they can take ownership over their relationship with God. So that they can know that God loves them. God rescued them. God redeemed them. God set them on a path to be like Him to the world around them. So I just pray for over every woman that she feels the stabilizing truth come upon her, that God is both comforter equipper. He is a challenger of good things. And I pray that we look more and more like Him every day. In the name of Jesus, we pray. Amen.
Amen. Thanks, guys. And thank you, listeners for joining us today for this episode of the Connected On podcast. And hey, we want you to join us again next week for another episode where we're going to have another conversation helping you to connect more deeply with God, more empathically with your fellow moms, and more intentionally with your child. This is Becky Harling and we're signing off. Thanks for joining us today.