To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my

name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe

that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word. And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy. Hello, and welcome back to regularly scheduled programming.

Yes. Instead of on a Wednesday, welcome back to Thursday. We love a Thursday. I love a lonely day. Back to Amy Grant.

I've been really listening to that all day. Actually, I

posted to our TikTok graphic that showed, like, I love a lonely day from Amy Grant, and then it said, me too, so I could listen to podcasts. I was being very cutesy.

So cute. So I hope

you all had a lovely Thanksgiving. Those of you in The US, if you weren't, I hope you had a lovely last Thursday for whatever reason.

Yeah. I hope you just celebrated yourself.

Yep. We we have tradition of going Black Friday shopping the day after Thanksgiving every year.

Mhmm.

And we will get up we're like the crazy people. I feel like we told you this last year, but we are the crazy people that will get up at 04:00 in the morning, roll our butts out of bed, sit in the four hour long Starbucks line, and then go to the mall Mhmm. Every year without fail. It used to be way more busy Mhmm.

Than it is now because there's Black Friday deals throughout, like, the whole month of November. Mhmm. It used to be like, you go to the mall and you can't find a parking space. Now now you can. Yeah.

But I still I really like I don't even know that I'm necessarily shopping for Christmas. Like, I'm oh, I'm shopping. We're shopping. I'm shopping for myself. But I like to get a Cinnabon.

Mhmm. And I like to get a Starbucks. And I really love to people watch. It's a real treasure.

We and it depends on the year who's around. But we've got a very big family, and a lot of the cousins will go out together. We used to get the ants going out together, but they've decided they're too old now, I think. Because they're lame? Yeah.

Their knees

Hard paws.

Their ankles don't work.

It's Listen. Neither mine. Struggle. Neither mine.

So it's a different group of us. It used to be, yeah, like, our mom and our aunts and stuff like that. Now it's mostly the cousins that go. My daughter has been begging to go for years, but she's young enough that I still feel like, you know, getting up at 04:00 in the morning might not be a wise choice.

She's also still at that point in life where she touches and looks at absolutely We like a thing in the

took both our kids to the store, Not mine and Bree's kids. My kids. Me and my husband. And I took them to the store the other day. And they're really good about not asking you to buy everything for them, but my gosh, do they touch everything they walk by.

Both of them.

And it is chaos. Look at this. Oh, that's so cute. Wow. I don't oh.

It's a real struggle.

Everything is, like, at level 10. Mhmm.

It's a lot of excitement and not a lot of excitement for me. So no Black Friday shopping for my daughter yet.

No. Although I think I did start going when I was 10.

You did. But okay. Okay. So those of you out there who are the oldest children will really understand my pain here. The rule was when we were kids that once we were 12, we could go Black Friday shopping.

That was just the rule. I don't know why. And so I waited all the way until I was 12 to go to Black Friday shopping, and I went one year.

Now Brianna is two and a half years younger than me. No. Don't recall that.

And I went one time by myself. And then the next year, when Brianna wasn't definitely not 12, she was definitely 10. She got to go. And I was so bitter.

Because I cried. Mom, I'm holding this grudge. And for you younger daughters

out there,

just remember, life is still hard for you. So hold on to those little wins.

I will hold the scrudge forever.

That's okay. You can. Oh, anyway. Today, we are

talking a little bit about the holidays, moving into more of the holidays. Mhmm. The global holidays. La la la lifetime. Oh, interesting.

Mhmm. And the holidays can be very difficult for some people.

I feel like across the board, everybody knows that there's a lot of stress and tension over the holiday season because not only is there like financial stress, there's family stress in many different ways. There's family stress if you have lost family members or if you don't get along with certain family members or trying to figure out which side of the family do you visit or how long do you spend with them. Or maybe you're single and you don't have a ton of family to go to. There's so many stresses.

Yeah. And I think probably for our audience in particular, a lot of you likely came from religious spaces. Mhmm. And are now kind of living in opposition to those religious spaces. Yeah.

If you're anything like us, like, we grew up very religious, and we have spent some time in the past couple of years deconstructing our faith. Haven't lost our faith. I would say it's stronger than ever, but we find ourselves disagreeing with some of the core beliefs Mhmm.

That our family does. And that's probably true of a lot of you guys out there. If you found our podcast, if this is relevant for you, then more than likely you deal with the same stuff.

Mhmm. And that can make things difficult. Mhmm. Because there's still people that you love. Right.

Still people that you respect. But now there's there's some tension.

And that can feel like a big divide. Mhmm. It can almost feel like an insurmountable mountain. You know?

Mhmm.

And so we wanted to talk today to you guys, but also to the families. And we titled today or we're gonna title today's episode, dear dads and brothers. Etcetera. Etcetera. Because we wanna talk to the people out there or have you guys share it with the people out there that should be allies to you.

Mhmm. Because for the women listening that are fighting for equality, that are fighting for your own rights in a religious space in the world, etcetera, it's hard. It can be exhausting.

It can be lonely, like we talked about before.

Right. And you need someone to have your back in those moments where you just can't do it anymore. Mhmm. You don't need someone to save you. You've got this.

But it is so nice to have someone to lean on. Mhmm. And so we wanted to talk to specifically men, but any family members really going into the holidays who love the women in your life, who love the marginalized people in your life, and talk to you about how to be an ally to them. Mhmm. Because you might want to, and you might not know how.

Or you might not realize that you're not.

I think we hear the word privilege thrown around a lot, specifically in today's society. But I don't think men fully understand the privilege that they have. Mhmm. Until they choose to open their eyes to it. Like, jokes that aren't targeted towards you.

Every thought and word that comes out of your mouth isn't considered frivolous and stupid just because of who you are as a person. So I think men need to take some time and really open their eyes or really truly listen to the women in their lives and believe them when they're saying, here's an example of how this hurt me. And that way they can then step into that divide and say, okay, I believe you. I'm also going to speak out against your oppression. Mhmm.

Actually, a call out to

our dad real quick. Hi, dad. So we've been talking, obviously, in our family about feminist topics for a very long time. It is something we talk about a lot. We're loud and aggressive about it.

It's just when you're passionate about something, it's hard to shut up.

Yep. And I think our dad has really tried to understand where we're coming from, but comes from a different space. And it's not, you know, where you sit determines what you see. And he's not a woman. Mhmm.

So it's hard for him to see things through our eyes. And so I was really proud of him because we were all listening to a speech recently that was very

anti woman. I'm gonna go with that. Yeah. I would agree with that. It was

a religious speech coming from a religious leader. And Brianna and I were sitting there physically rolling our eyes. Like, if that man was looking at either of us. I do this thing where I have a death stare.

Oh, yeah. And I absolutely get it from dad. Because dad will do that too. If he doesn't like you, if he's mad, you can see it all over his face. And I was doing a death stare.

Oh, yeah. My whole body was tense. I was shaken my feet. Mhmm.

And later on, we were talking to our dad about this. And he said, you know, normally during those kinds of things, I just tune out. Mhmm. I just, you know, go into my imagination and swirl around. He said exactly those words.

It's so weird. I know. It's a direct quote. And he said this time, he intentionally tried to listen and pay attention so that he could hear what we were talking about.

Mhmm.

And he noticed what we were talking about. He could hear it because we've brought it up to him, because we've talked about how important this is to us. Mhmm. And so he made an effort.

Mhmm.

And that's what we're asking of of all of the men in our lives, of all of the people in our lives

Mhmm.

That you hear you hear the people who are being hurt, you believe them, and you try to see things through their eyes.

You know how we say love is an action? Mhmm. That, to me, showed how much dad loves us more than any other time that he said, I love you.

He's gonna cry when he listens to

this. I'm crying now.

Don't get like that, oh, emotional that Brie's crying. She has cried all week long. My emotions are just on the fringes.

I've seen Wicked part two two times now.

But okay. So I wanted to read a letter, actually, that I wrote and have been messing with for a little while. Mhmm. So I'm gonna read it's not it's not super long, but I'm gonna read it to you guys. And that'll kind of launch us into the things that we're gonna talk about.

So dear dads and brothers, etcetera. Etcetera. We need to talk. Not because we wanna lecture you, but because the holidays are coming. And every year there will be a moment, whether it's a joke or a comment or a shrug, that reminds us how easily our voices get pushed to the edges.

You may not mean to hurt us, but the things you laugh at, the things you ignore, and the things you let slide, they hit us hard. The it's just a joke comments like, well, Paul said women should be quiet, or that's why men lead in the household, or the you know how women are jokes. Those are the things that hurt us. Those are the things that settle in our souls. The times we're talked about as being too sensitive when we say something isn't right or that something hurts.

The moments when someone says women are better in supporting roles and no one pushes back, those moments aren't harmless. They hurt us because they tell us we're not fully seen, not fully heard, and not fully safe, especially in the spaces that say they value us. And the part that hurts the most is that you could be our allies. You could be the ones who push back. But too often you stay silent.

Not because you don't care, but because you don't realize that your silence has meaning. So here's the truth. We're not asking you to save us. We're asking you to show up, to listen, to notice, to step in when someone's joke is actually hurtful, to challenge casual sexism, to choose respect over comfort even when it means confronting someone you love. We want to believe that you can be those men, the ones who make our spaces safer, kinder, and more equal for the women in your families.

So this is your invitation and your chance to be better.

You're invited formally. By Alyssa and Brie.

And I wanted to just read that because this has been something I've been working through for a while now, wishing that there were more advocates, Not just in our world, but in the broader world.

Yeah. I think a lot of it comes from just the lack of seeing it. Mhmm. And we can scream it as loud as we want. We can say, the world still needs feminism because of X, Y, Z.

Because I'm not safe. Because I am oppressed. We can say that all we want. But it takes a certain person to actually believe you. Because their eyes aren't open to it yet.

But just taking a step and saying, you know what? I don't see it yet, but I believe you. And I'm gonna try to be better. That is huge.

I think it helps too to prepare certain things to say. Yeah. Be an advocate for all of the people, but prepare what you're gonna say because then you know. You know what you're gonna say in that awkward moment where you're like, normally, I'd laugh just to diffuse. Mhmm.

So Brie has come up with many that I think are very funny. I

just like to keep little cards in my back pocket, you know, just at the ready whenever the situation arises, whenever sexism hits. Yeah. I think, I mean, you see these all over TikTok, but just saying something as simple as, what did you mean by that? Did you intend for it to come across that way? Is this coming from a place of love?

Mhmm. Would you say this to anybody else? Would you say this to a man? I mean, they're not funny.

That's just. I love when a sexist joke comes up and people will say, I didn't get that. Can you explain it to me? Yeah. Like, fully innocent.

And you watch people try and explain their sexism to

you. Mhmm.

And they're, like, tripping over themselves and they don't know where to go.

And then you could just sit there, silently nod, and

say You just nod.

Oh. Mhmm. You meant for that to be hurtful then. Mhmm. That was your intention.

Correct? Question mark.

It can be as simple as not laughing. Yes. If someone makes a sexist joke and you laugh just to diffuse the tension, the person that that joke was against feels like you thought that was funny. Mhmm. And so instead of laughing, you just sit there and you just stare.

Mhmm. Because that wasn't funny.

Or you get up and leave the room.

Mhmm.

That's where I kind of am in some situations where I am uncomfortable speaking up. I'll just get up and leave. Mhmm.

And remember too, for the men out there, they say that one in four women in The United States will be assaulted in her lifetime. One in six will be raped.

Mhmm.

Those are huge numbers. And so oftentimes, women do not feel safe speaking up in these situations, even if it's around family, because a lot of this assault comes from families. Mhmm. So women don't always feel safe being the loud voice saying this isn't okay. So while we're certainly not asking you to save us, we are saying when she doesn't feel safe, you have the opportunity to step in and create a safe space.

Mhmm.

Simply by saying that's not okay.

Mhmm.

I would love to get it across how critical this is. Because even in spaces where, like, Brie and I find ourselves, they're not physically unsafe spaces necessarily. But they are stressful spaces. They're often difficult spaces where we feel the need to defend ourselves from the moment we step through the door. And so to have people on our side

Mhmm.

On our side. I'm not sitting here like, oh, and politically, we need you to be on our side or whatever. But just to have someone that thinks my value is the same as the man's value sitting next to me. For us, growing up in a conservative Christian space, that's a big deal.

Yeah.

The bar is low, but that's a big deal.

Yeah. I think that's important to say. Like, we don't have to on everything. Mhmm. But we can agree bare minimum that, hey, let's just say sexist jokes are not okay.

Mhmm. Because Brianna doesn't feel comfortable with this. You know what? I'm just not gonna say that that's okay anymore. Mhmm.

And anytime I do hear a sexist joke, I am gonna speak up. Mhmm. Because I know that that makes her uncomfortable, and therefore, makes me uncomfortable. Mhmm. Because I care about this person enough.

And I have had so many sexist jokes said right in front of me. Mhmm. From coworkers, from people that I randomly meet at grocery stores to family members. Mhmm. It's not okay.

Right.

It doesn't make me feel comfortable. It doesn't make me feel safe. No. Thank you. Mhmm.

I think it speaks to just lack of consideration of other humans, especially for you and I. Because people we're very loud about our opinions. People people know us. Okay? Yeah.

There's no middle ground of like, what do Alyssa

and Brianna believe? I just don't know. They wear shirts with it saying it

right there. And so for people to do that in front of you speaks to just, I could not care less. Mhmm. And we want people just like anyone else out there, we want people to care about

us. Mhmm.

If you wanna have a relationship with me, I need you to care enough to care about what I do. Mhmm. I need you to care enough to say Alyssa has value. And men out there, the women in your lives are feeling the same thing. If you want a relationship with them, whether that's a romantic relationship or a familial relationship or a friendship, they want you to have their backs.

Because everyone wants that. In good, safe, caring relationships, people have each other's backs. They value each other. They care about what that person cares about. Even if they don't always a 100% agree, they still care and value you.

And so if you're not the person that stands up for them, that steps into that gap, that's going to slowly erode your relationship.

Mhmm.

It just is. There's no getting around it.

Sometimes, maybe we don't know what a sexist joke looks like. I think some of them are, like, blatantly obvious. Like, I can't even think of one off the top of my

head because I don't have them at the right. This isn't

just something you do. No. Not often. But often we hear women compared to objects. Mhmm.

Constantly. A linebacker, perhaps?

A linebacker, the base of a pyramid. Mhmm.

A car. Mhmm. A football team. Mhmm.

Oh, I have sexist joke at the ready. I've heard about, like, men and women sleeping together before marriage. Well, you wouldn't drive a car without test driving it I'm not a car. And I think that is a great way to respond to those types of jokes because they're I would say the more common Mhmm. Is comparing women to x, y, z.

Right. A woman's a woman. A woman's a person. She's not an oven. She's not a servant.

Mhmm. She's not a car. She's not the base of a pyramid. She's not a linebacker. Mhmm.

She's so much more than that. She's a person.

Right. I think a lot of the sexist jokes that I hear too I I'm thinking, like, the dumb blonde jokes.

Yeah.

A lot of the jokes focus around women not being as intelligent as men. Mhmm. Which just is very inaccurate. Like, you can look at all the stats and everything. I'm not gonna pull them up.

But super, super inaccurate. Mhmm. And yet it gets brought up all the time, and it it just chips away a little bit

Mhmm. At who women get to be. That makes you start to think that about yourself too. And I've noticed that, like, in my dating life lately, and again, that's why I'm just not settling anymore. But the idea, like, men are better at sports.

And men are better at this. And men are better at driving. And men are better at this, this, this, this, this. What are you even good at?

Oh, you don't know about sports? Oh, you don't beat me at air hockey? I'll beat anybody at air hockey. Thank you very much.

Yeah. Just like little things chipping away at you, and then you start to if you're not careful Mhmm. You start to believe that about yourself. Mhmm. What am I good at?

Do I have to defend what I'm good at?

Or having to prove yourself all the time. Mhmm. This happened to me recently where some people our family was chopping down a tree, and they had, like, the saw out or whatever. And I came out to say something, and

one of them said, hey, saw down a branch. Come over here and saw down a branch. And I was like, no. I don't wanna. Because it was just a performative thing.

It wasn't like

they actually needed help. You Mhmm.

And I was like, no.

I'm doing stuff. Like, I

don't wanna saw down a branch. And Mhmm. He said, well, to prove your podcast, you need to

saw down this branch. I said, so it it's gonna prove feminism if I saw down a branch? And he said, yeah. And what does that say to me as a person?

Mhmm.

It says, I don't believe you have the same value as me unless you prove it. Mhmm. You have to prove to me that you have the same value as I do. I don't need to prove to you that I have the same level of value. Do you know why?

Because God said that I do.

Mhmm.

Because when God created Eve, he said that I am equal. That I was made in his image. Mhmm. That throughout the entire bible, he continued to say that. So I don't need to prove it to you by sawing down a branch or by learning how to play football.

Do you wanna ask the same of him? Mhmm. Try birthing a child. Right. Go ahead.

Try. Mhmm. Or how do you feel about periods? Yeah. Have you ever seen that amount of blood come out of your body?

Right. When's the last time you did? I see it every month. Hopefully. And I think that leads right into just anything that's considered particularly female Mhmm.

Is less than. Mhmm. Is considered frivolous, a waste of time, waste of energy, especially because of Thanksgiving just having happened. We have Black Friday or with Christmas coming up, shopping. Men think that women shopping is a joke.

Right? Oh, she's just out to spend my money again. Okay. Well, let's dig a little bit deeper. Why is she going shopping?

Oh, it's to get Christmas presents for your parents and your children and or grocery shopping. Maybe all of that shopping has a purpose. It's not just frivolous. And maybe, yes, along the way we get ourselves a Starbucks and a Cinnabon because we deserve that. Gosh, dang it.

Or maybe we just enjoy each other's company. And this is a way we fellowship together. You can watch football. You can go fishing. And that's all fine.

You can go play pickleball. And those are all considered important. Because they're masculine, typically, right? But me going to the mall is frivolous. Why?

There's no reason. Mhmm.

You see that in so many things. You're right. They're considered more more geared towards women. Mhmm. Obviously, don't need to be geared towards women.

But it is more often than not just like, well, that's so silly. Or books, for instance. So there's been a huge resurgence in people reading recently, women in particular. And if you walk through Target, you'll see the types of books women are reading. And there's been a big pushback from men on TikTok because it's called BookTok for the people who like the books.

And there's been a big pushback from men of like, women are ruining literature. Women are ruining reading because of the types of books that are popular right now. And it's because it's geared towards women.

Mhmm.

I think we did an episode on that. Not on that,

but talking about that a little bit maybe, like, six months ago, where it's just because women like it. There's a statistic too that and I don't know what it is, but, like, a huge percentage of men do not read books written by women. Mhmm. And so I've pushed back. I don't read books by men.

I don't want men to enter

my brain. No, thank you. Not ever. She closes her eyes even while driving. Some stats I wanted to read to you.

According to a mental health newsletter, during Christmas time, eighty one percent of people find the season overall stressful. Eighty three percent feel lonely, And twenty six percent say that Christmas makes their mental health worse. Oh, yeah. I don't think any of

us are surprised by those stats. No.

But it is important to say, how can I help even one person not feel those feelings? Mhmm. And if we're specifically talking about the women in your lives, and I hope women that listen to us, because I know our audience is primarily female, I hope that you share this with the people that you think need to hear it, with the people that you want to advocate for you and for other women as well. Because maybe it looks like saying that a joke wasn't funny. Like, maybe that advocacy looks like taking something off your plate.

Not literally. Leave my food alone. Make your own plate. Maybe

it looks like your husband buying Christmas gifts for his own parents this year.

Mhmm.

Or taking care of the stockings for the kids. Or taking care of the Christmas gifts for the kids. Or handling the freaking elf on the shelf. Okay. Or

maybe it's changing our language instead of, oh, he's watching the kids. Mhmm. Nope. They're his kids. Yep.

He is parenting the children.

Yep. Take some of that mental load. Because

that

can be advocacy too. And if it doesn't have to be from a spouse. If you see your friends struggling, if you see your siblings struggling, if you see your parents struggling, to jump in and say, I'm gonna show up. I'm gonna help a little bit more. I'm gonna do whatever it is that I can do.

Mhmm. You know, maybe it's showing up. Maybe it's sending a card to your mom and saying, I miss you. You know?

Whatever it is. Here's a new picture of me you can put on your fridge.

At 35 years old.

Yeah. I would do it. My school picture for the year. Maybe it looks like listening to women. Mhmm.

Like it matters. Mhmm. Listening to not just their hardships, but to their life like it matters. Mhmm. Not like it's a waste of time.

I think particularly in religious spaces, we see that it's often not a safe space for women. Women we talk about this all the time. Women are leaving churches at an unprecedented rate. Unprecedented. In a couple of years, there's gonna be hardly any women there.

I mean, seriously, at the rate that it's going, there just are not a lot of women comfortable or safe in church.

Our dad is so funny. Maybe we should title this, hey, dad. He said that I we maybe have mentioned this before, but he said that he thinks a huge reason why the Christian church attracts so many men is because it gives them unprecedented power. -Mm And they love that. You mean that religiously, you're telling me God ordained me to be a dictator over women.

Biblically. That sounds amazing. Now think about what that says to women. No, thank you. That's why we're leaving in droves, because the kind of men that you're attracting in these churches are just power hungry, and I'm physically not safe.

Look at the statistics. Who is hurting

women? Men. Mhmm. Often religious men, often religious leaders. And for us in our podcast community, you guys, this audience right here, I think a lot of us have stepped out of those unhealthy spaces.

Mhmm. We've consciously stepped away. And and maybe that's true for you. Maybe it's not. But at least I hope emotionally you've distanced yourself.

Mhmm.

And it can be really difficult when you've made a conscious choice. I'm gonna step away from unhealthy religion. I'm gonna step away from unhealthy religious people. And then at Christmas and Thanksgiving and New Year's, to walk back into those spaces where maybe because you grew up religious or maybe because you have religious family members, people are spouting the same stuff Mhmm. That those churches that you left were spouting.

Mhmm. And you left them because of that, but now you're in this home. And these are people that are supposed to love you that you're supposed to love.

And then you start to feel trapped. Like, is my car blocked in? How am I gonna get out? Maybe that looks like having an exit plan. Yeah.

That can be a really hard time. Mhmm. And how do we make that easier? As the women in those situations, you're right. It looks easier by saying things like have an exit plan.

Actually, I think last year, we did a whole episode on keeping yourself safe over the holidays.

Yeah.

Like, emotionally safe. So feel free to go back. We have some really good advice in that one as well. But have an exit plan. Have a plan of things that you're gonna say, responses that you're gonna have, and have a limit.

How much am I gonna take?

Mhmm.

Maybe have a emergency meal back home because McDonald's isn't open on Christmas. So if you're hungry, like, at least have a frozen pizza in the freezer in case you had to leave before dinner. Mhmm. Have all of that stuff taken care of. Because you know your family.

You know your friends. You know that space you're gonna walk into. If you know that it might not be safe for you, have a way out. But then for the for your family, for the advocates

Mhmm. For the people who love you, take note

of how that person is feeling.

Mhmm.

If it's your wife, take note of how she's feeling. You know when when the lines hit between her eyebrows and her hands ball into fists. You know. Mhmm. You know how to read that.

Take note. And step in

when you need to, when you can. She can handle herself, but be the person that's got her back.

How can I be a good partner to this person in that situation too? Like, in our conservative Christian church spaces, often what the holidays look like are the women are taking on a ton of pressure. Mhmm. They're cooking and preparing the meals because that's what they're told to do. They're buying the Christmas presents and wrapping the Christmas presents because that's what they're told to do.

And they feel like they have to take on the weight of the world. So as an ally, what does that look like? Maybe that means doing more than just carving the turkey. Maybe that means stepping in and learning how to cook something. Or if you don't know how to cook something, say, you know what?

I'm a go to Costco because I heard they have really good mashed potatoes. And I'm gonna get those.

Or I will clean the bathrooms and the hallway and whatever.

Don't need to dust out the attic. I'm actually gonna do something helpful. Something practical. Or maybe that looks like instead of her making my plate, because I'm not the most important person, maybe I make her plate. Mhmm.

Give her a break. She cooked this whole meal, and I'm gonna make her a plate instead. And I'm gonna do it well. I'm not gonna do it poorly. Mhmm.

Or wrapping the Christmas presents.

Or buying the Christmas presents.

Or buying the Christmas presents. Handling the Christmas cards. Or just something. And when you do those things, you don't need to, you know, shout from the rooftops like, look what I did. Hey, did I do a good job with this?

Hey, I made your plate. Did I do a good job with this? Did I did you like that? Excuse me. Room?

Room? Did you see? Did you see what I did? Let me stand up on the table real quick. That is not helpful.

Or here's a twist. Maybe you ask her to pray for the food today.

Mhmm.

Maybe it needs to be her voice. I'm switching things up.

I would love to see that in so many alms, to see men intentionally elevate women. Mhmm. And maybe that's maybe that's the next step. Maybe once you've, you know, advocated and and stepped in and not laughed at the jokes and all the things to really intentionally elevate. Not just say, oh, she's status quo.

You know? But, oh my gosh. She's amazing. Look at all

the things she did. Outrageous confidence. Yeah. Build each other up. Brie and I talked couple episodes ago about how incredible women are at this.

Mhmm. And women, I would encourage you to do this for your sisters and cousins and friends and daughters and moms and aunts. Build them up. And during this season too, like, you've all got each other. But I believe that you've got each other, so that's why we're talking to the men right now.

I know you guys already have this down. But women are so good at this. That is part of the language of women. Mhmm. I think.

And you did this to me the other day. We were at dinner, and someone asked, Oh, do you girls sing? And Alyssa goes, Brianna has the most amazing voice I've ever heard in my life. Which is hilarious and not true. You have a beautiful voice.

You've heard me on many of these episodes. Absolutely crush it. You're right. I'm amazing. Killing it.

But that's the language of women. Right? And I wanna do that with the men in my life too. Hype them up. But a lot of times, I tamp it down because they've had enough.

They have enough. Men can learn that. Men can learn how to build people up that way.

But it takes them wanting to do that. Mhmm. So do you want to be an advocate? Do you wanna be an ally?

Do you

wanna be a feminist? Here's what that looks like.

Come on, boys. Come on.

Because we're a really good time. Like It's just a difference. If you look at a crowd of women, and we're all sitting together, and we're talking together, and some people call it gossiping. We're not gossiping. Sometimes.

We're sharing our life, and we're sharing stories, and we're building each other up. And it's fun, and there's Starbucks, and sometimes there's wine involved. -Mm -And then you look at a group of men, and they don't know anything about each other. -They really don't. -They couldn't tell you each other's eye colors.

They don't remember their wives' names. They're sitting together. Mhmm. And maybe they're having a beer or they're watching football. Mhmm.

But what do they know about each other? Like, what is their vibe? Right. There's such a difference.

And that deep, honest connection is what lasts. Mhmm. We talked about this last week in our Elphaba episode. Last week? Two weeks ago.

Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago in our Elphaba episode about how a true honest relationship is the one that will hold for the rest of your life.

Mhmm.

That shallow relationship. And that's why I think you see so much of the male loneliness epidemic. It's not that women are choosing not to be with men right now, choosing to be single instead. I think, obviously, that's part of it, and go women. Mhmm.

But it's that men don't know how to create those deep relationships. And a big part of that is because they're not listening to the voices of women. Mhmm. Women have this down. Maybe not every woman.

Mhmm. But many, many women have this down. We know how to create those deep relationships.

And women are finding even married women. There's some statistics on that, too. And maybe we've talked about this in podcasts. But they're not saying, My spouse is my best friend. Because their spouse is not acting like their best friend.

But the men are saying, No, my wife's my best friend. What does that what does best friend really mean? Because best friend means, I know you inside and out. Not in a gross way. But I am there for you.

I don't want the short version of your story. I want the long version. Tell me every detail of your day. How did it start? You woke up.

I rolled out

of bed. My hair was in my eyes.

And maybe that looks like hard truths and honesty. Like, no. You shouldn't be dating that person. Here's why. But

it can also look like the little things, like, let's go get coffee four times a day and walk through Target. Yeah. There's a song. It's sung by a man, and I don't remember who, but it's called cheerleader. Do you know Oh,

I think that I found myself a cheerleader. No. I don't know who sings that.

But you know the song. Yeah. And I was thinking about that while you were talking. And the song talks about this man finding a girlfriend who cheers him on, who is standing up, shouting how amazing he is to the world, and who just has his back and that feeling of someone having your back.

You have to return that Mhmm. Though. And I find it really interesting in the submissive culture, men are told to look for that. Because you're a submissive wife, you need to be your husband's biggest cheerleader. What is your husband supposed to do?

He should be your biggest cheerleader. But they're not telling men that. No. They're saying, You need to protect. You need to protect from what?

From men. Mhmm. I got off real. The real. I liked it.

Okay. It was good. Good. Oh, I think that about myself a cheerleader. I'm doing a dance too.

You're missing

She's bouncing. We've been bouncing a lot this episode, actually. And I haven't had any coffee in a long time. It's been since this morning. I know.

It's a rough time for me.

Yeah. We're how can we survive?

But you see that relationship imbalance, and I think that's why you see you know, I'm surrounded. Both of us, Brie and I, are surrounded by these traditional marriages. And I'm air quoting again. I'm sorry. Once we start filming, you'll start to see this.

But they

all fail.

Mhmm. I haven't seen one good one, and I am surrounded by them. Yeah. I have yet to see one that feels good.

Mhmm.

That feels whole and joyful and what God designed it to be. Mhmm. Because the Bible says that marriage is supposed to reflect the love that God has for us. It's how we see it. It's how we know it in that deep wonderful relationship that marriage can be.

And I'm not seeing it in these supposedly traditional marriages because they're uneven. They're imbalanced. She's his cheerleader. She knows everything that happened at work, and she knows his work friends, and she knows his schedule, and she knows the kids' schedules, and she's gotten him gifts, she remembers all the dates and everything. And it's not reciprocated, and so she's sitting there trying to show the love of God and not getting the love of God in return.

Mhmm.

So I have a challenge for you. Oh, I love a challenge. Are you ready? Men love challenges. Okay.

Men. Men. Here we go. Here's a tough mutter. It's a manly challenge.

Get out here. What's manly? Taxidermy. Get out your taxidermy.

That's a throwback. We haven't done that one on

a while.

Those of you who've been around for a bit. Alright. So here's your challenge. Do one thing every week for the month of December that shows that you're an ally. Maybe that looks like sending a text to check-in.

Maybe that looks like saying something when something's sexist said around you. Maybe it looks like taking on a responsibility that she normally takes on.

Maybe that looks like opening up your ears to those situations that she's been saying over and over and over again. This is what I'm talking about.

Right. And then talk to her. Not say, hey, guess what I did. I'm amazing. Mhmm.

But sit down and say, hey, I intentionally wanted to see what you've been talking about. And I did. And here's what I

got from that. Here's my follow-up. Yeah. Yeah. Have those conversations so that not so

that you get credit, but so that she knows that you're there. You heard her. You are on her side. You've got her back. Mhmm.

Maybe that looks like she's really into reading. So I'm gonna also get really into reading.

There are so many ways. And it doesn't just need to be to your spouse. Mhmm. Check-in with your sisters. Mhmm.

Check-in with your moms. Check-in

with

your cousins and your aunts and your friends.

And your crazy ex lover.

No. Don't do that. Don't check-in there. Did you catch that reference, though?

I did catch that reference. Thank you. Toby Mac. Nope. Yeah.

No. Keith. Toby Keith. Toby Mac.

I actually would not have caught that if you hadn't gone through that chain of thoughts.

The Christian singer. Toby Mac.

No. He's definitely Toby Keith. Is Toby Keith dead? Is he the one that died? Okay.

So do something every week. Do something every week this month and see how it changes the way that you think. Mhmm. The way that you interact with the women in your life.

Maybe it means educating yourself Mhmm. On some of the female experiences, such as periods. I just lose a lot of you there?

I think that's so good, though. There's a video if you watch doctor Mike on YouTube, he did a video where he talks to his, like, teenage nephews about periods

Mhmm.

And asks them kind of what they know. And, yes, they're teenagers, and so it's kind of, like, funny and jokey and whatever. But men do not know things about how female anatomy works.

I don't blame them too much for not knowing this, but there's also a lot of TikToks that women are like, go get me a lemon tampon. They just don't know the difference between, like, the sizes Mhmm. Or the absorbency levels. So they're like, why is there a left and a right tampon? Is there a difference?

Nope. It's light, regular, super, super fuzz. Left and

right Like the KitKat. Yeah.

Or maybe they don't know that it's not just something that happens once a month. There's like a whole cycle. And it just starts over again after you have your period. And then, like, there's all kinds of different things involved.

But these are ways like, learning about these things are ways that

you can make women feel supported and safe. Maybe that looks like, hey, you're a single guy. I'm gonna keep tampons in my apartment. Mhmm. Not because I'm a creep, but because someone might

need them. Right. It's just these little things that you can do to show us that we're safe around you. And I think that's the biggest emotion for me that I strive to make people feel safe around me.

Unless I don't want them to feel safe.

If you're gonna make a sexist joke, if you're gonna say things that harm other people, you don't need to feel safe around me. But for for just people

Mhmm.

I want people to feel supremely safe to be themselves when I am there.

Because you want to live your life like the hands and feet of Jesus. Right. And Jesus was outrageously kind and loving. Mhmm. And so that's how you want to be perceived.

Mhmm. Imagine if you were in Jesus' presence. Like, just alright. Ready? And we're gonna do an exercise.

I'm picturing Birkenstocks. Okay. Close your eyes.

Everybody's eyes are closed altogether. We're not gonna do a group prayer. We're not doing that. I peeked twice.

Oh, dang it. Bring it on.

Sorry. I'm gonna popcorn over to you. Alright. So you're sitting with Jesus. You're sitting in the grass because that's more comfortable.

And he's in Birkenstocks, obviously. That's what Brie said. And he's got a a weird looking beard.

How are you describing Jesus like that? It's odd. And

what is the feeling that you imagine that you would have with Jesus? Not with if you have a lot of religious trauma, don't think about, like, the the people that follow Jesus. Think about who Jesus has described to be in the Bible. What would you feel in his presence? Because my main feeling is safety.

That feeling of just, like, all the stress in your body falling away.

Like you can breathe again. Yeah. Or is it regret? Well, there might be that too.

But if that's what Jesus would want to make you feel, that feeling of safety, comfort, love, just true peace Mhmm. That is what you should be to the people around you. Now, I'm not saying allow bad things to happen around you. Obviously, there are moments Jesus flipped some tables. There are moments where you need to stand up.

But for those moments, where's just people around you? Mhmm. You know? Be the person that makes other people feel safe. Mhmm.

To the men out there, be the man that makes women feel safe, not because he's big and macho and has a gun in the back of his truck, but because he is a safe space for her to be herself, for her to be comfortable, for her to feel, like, more. Mhmm.

For her to not feel mocked.

To feel valued, to feel equal.

Mhmm. That her interests are not any less valuable than your interests just because she's a woman. Now, will say there's some interests that men have that I feel are significantly not as valuable as mine. All right. I'm ready.

I am not a nerd. Really? I struggle with superheroes and sports. Now we get them.

We're losing people. Sorry. They're they've left now.

We can we can cut all this out. But that's what I'm looking for on the dating apps. I'm just saying.

What was that one the guy on the dating app that you Oh just my

gosh. This is a completely off topic. I'm ready for it. But I was scrolling through the dating apps today, and this guy liked me. And one of his prompts was like, something you should know before we date.

I don't want someone who's into fake fragrances. I want someone who embraces their pheromones and loves natural body odor. That is insane. I hope you find who you're looking for. It's not me.

I use clinical strength deodorant and a variety of sprays. I don't want to smell you. I don't. There's like nothing more attractive than someone who smells nice. Actually, there's a few things.

But listen, dating is hard, especially around the holidays. Especially if you live in a smaller town, there's not a lot to pick from. So I'm happy being alone. I almost felt like that was headed to

a PSA of like, so if you know anyone

Oh, if you know any rich, old men I'm a feminist, but listen. I could use a billion dollars. Everyone could. Mhmm. Merry Christmas to me.

And then you can donate a large chunk of it.

Yes. Would donate almost all of it. Feed the people, man. I would keep just a few measly old million for me. So

if you've been listening, we've been so good about planning ahead the last, like, month and a half.

I'm so proud. We're so, so good.

However, we didn't know what we were gonna talk about until just a few moments ago where we paused and figured out what we were gonna talk about.

And through the magic of editing, you missed the pause.

It was a really long pause, and I had to go back. And we said a lot of ums. And how about we do this?

It was pretty boring. Yeah.

So here we are now. Here we are.

And this Christmas season So previous Christmases, we've talked about like Mary, what that looked like, and I forget what else we've talked about for Christmases.

I think we've only had one Christmas.

Just Mary. Highly suggest that you go back and listen to that episode. It was very interesting just hearing about her. And just the word her in general in relation to the Bible. But this Christmas, we're gonna be talking about different women who helped shape different Christmas traditions.

And maybe that looks like Catherine Dickens, who was Charles Dickens' wife, and Saint Lucia, who is Saint Lucy, who's central to the Scandinavian Christmas celebration, and many other women. Yeah. So we're gonna do three or four weeks on that. Mhmm.

And that'll jump us into the new year, where we will figure out what 2026 looks like together.

Yes. We'll support each other through that business. Yeah. Yuck.

So, yeah, join us for that. We're actually I'm I'm very excited about that. These are women that I don't know anything about. You know? Mhmm.

And I love when we dive into those stories.

Mhmm. Because there's so many stories from women who just get conveniently erased. Mhmm. And I love speaking their names

Yeah.

And reminding people who they are and what their stories are. And so there,

and so Oh, and So enjoy your week. We will see you again next week on Thursday. Yeah. We'll see you. We'll see you.

We could see you if you join us on TikTok or Instagram. Yeah. And head over there. We are if you look for the hashtag we are more, you'll find us there. We're also on Facebook, but I I'm lazy about that one.

Don't post there as much.

I will say if you go follow us on Instagram and TikTok, I just posted pictures of us going to see Wicked for the second time. But the the third picture that I posted was me after seeing Wicked for the first time,

and I was weeping. That was a disaster. So if you wanna see that Yeah. Go find us over there. Mhmm.

Alright. We will talk to you

guys next week. Love you. Bye. Love you. Bye.