WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:30.753 --> 00:01:31.553 Duke: All right. 00:01:31.603 --> 00:01:33.193 this is our hundreds episode, Corey. 00:01:33.193 --> 00:01:34.713 I, 00:01:35.123 --> 00:01:36.443 CJ: 100. 00:01:36.473 --> 00:01:39.863 Who could believe that we would make it to 100? 00:01:40.563 --> 00:01:41.253 It's crazy. 00:01:42.673 --> 00:01:45.013 Duke: I thought I would, because I remember when I wanted to start 00:01:45.013 --> 00:01:47.813 the podcast and I was like, how do you know if you've made it? 00:01:47.913 --> 00:01:48.923 How do you know what you should do? 00:01:48.933 --> 00:01:50.313 And somebody would be like, it's going to take you about 00:01:50.313 --> 00:01:51.493 100 episodes to figure it out. 00:01:52.413 --> 00:01:53.463 And so here we are. 00:01:55.453 --> 00:01:56.203 CJ: Fair enough. 00:01:56.713 --> 00:01:59.263 Well, I would like to think that it didn't take a hundred episodes to 00:01:59.268 --> 00:02:01.303 actually figure out the podcast, but Yeah. 00:02:01.453 --> 00:02:05.053 I've definitely grown differently or a lot, right? 00:02:05.053 --> 00:02:06.913 Like from episode one to episode a hundred. 00:02:06.913 --> 00:02:09.463 I mean, I remember I didn't even want to do episode one. 00:02:09.629 --> 00:02:12.416 and you really twisted my arm on the day and I appreciate that. 00:02:12.416 --> 00:02:12.606 Right. 00:02:12.676 --> 00:02:15.326 Duke: Was it that you didn't want to or you didn't think you could? 00:02:15.986 --> 00:02:16.636 CJ: Uh, yeah. 00:02:16.636 --> 00:02:18.206 So that one, right. 00:02:18.206 --> 00:02:19.946 Like, I didn't think I could, I was scared. 00:02:19.986 --> 00:02:20.226 Right. 00:02:20.526 --> 00:02:24.056 Honestly, I didn't think I had anything to say to anybody wanted to hear. 00:02:24.481 --> 00:02:27.675 That's really what it comes down to when, you're thinking about 00:02:27.675 --> 00:02:29.005 creating any kind of content, right? 00:02:29.055 --> 00:02:32.485 Do you have something to say that you feel like other people want to hear and 00:02:32.485 --> 00:02:36.241 I just couldn't find that voice inside of myself, that I thought other people 00:02:36.241 --> 00:02:37.951 wanted to, uh, wanted to listen to. 00:02:38.341 --> 00:02:42.781 Duke: Yeah, for me, , I'd always used my voice and saying things out in the open as 00:02:42.781 --> 00:02:46.441 a way to litmus test the ideas themselves. 00:02:46.441 --> 00:02:46.661 Right? 00:02:46.671 --> 00:02:48.011 Like the best way to find out if. 00:02:48.336 --> 00:02:49.856 What I think is true. 00:02:50.516 --> 00:02:52.166 iS to tell people what I think. 00:02:52.801 --> 00:02:53.481 CJ: Well, that's true. 00:02:53.866 --> 00:02:56.356 Duke: And they'll either get behind me or they'll correct me in a hurry. 00:02:56.356 --> 00:02:59.126 So 00:02:59.361 --> 00:02:59.551 CJ: man. 00:02:59.551 --> 00:03:01.221 I mean, that is, that's absolutely true. 00:03:01.221 --> 00:03:01.471 Right. 00:03:01.471 --> 00:03:04.815 And that's one of the things, I always tell people too, is why I talk to a 00:03:04.815 --> 00:03:06.285 lot of people who I disagree with. 00:03:06.285 --> 00:03:06.445 Right. 00:03:06.445 --> 00:03:10.138 It's because, I figure out in a conversation, whether or not I'm right. 00:03:10.198 --> 00:03:14.958 Like if I'm right, then talking to someone I disagree with will allow me to try to 00:03:14.958 --> 00:03:19.238 convince them in a way that allows me to internally strengthen my own argument. 00:03:19.258 --> 00:03:19.588 Right. 00:03:19.938 --> 00:03:20.563 Or Yeah. 00:03:21.123 --> 00:03:25.043 They will convince me that I'm wrong and now I have a different 00:03:25.043 --> 00:03:26.313 way of thinking about things. 00:03:26.330 --> 00:03:28.710 And that means that I was talking wrong things. 00:03:28.710 --> 00:03:28.880 Right. 00:03:28.890 --> 00:03:29.910 Nobody wants to do that. 00:03:29.950 --> 00:03:30.210 Right. 00:03:30.230 --> 00:03:33.090 , that's why I always , tell people like, Hey, you don't 00:03:33.090 --> 00:03:35.198 want to shy away from, conflict. 00:03:35.198 --> 00:03:35.393 Right. 00:03:35.413 --> 00:03:38.683 Just like you said, like you talk to people, put it out there and if 00:03:38.683 --> 00:03:39.933 you're wrong, they'll correct you. 00:03:40.243 --> 00:03:40.543 Right. 00:03:40.543 --> 00:03:42.163 And if you write, they'll reinforce it. 00:03:43.368 --> 00:03:44.348 . Duke: It's episode 100. 00:03:44.498 --> 00:03:46.208 Look, we had all these plans. 00:03:46.208 --> 00:03:49.908 We want to make this huge blowout episode, this massive production. 00:03:50.378 --> 00:03:53.927 But I think we just look back at, some of our best moments were 00:03:53.927 --> 00:03:56.527 just like, hey, let's just hit the record button and let's go. 00:03:57.117 --> 00:03:58.947 Pick a broad topic and let's go. 00:03:59.497 --> 00:04:03.767 And so the topic today is What are we talking about today, Cory? 00:04:04.347 --> 00:04:05.787 CJ: Push it to the limit. 00:04:06.557 --> 00:04:06.777 Duke: THE LIMIT! 00:04:06.777 --> 00:04:11.161 Yep. 00:04:11.237 --> 00:04:14.197 CJ: we're going to talk about how you take it, whatever it is and turn it 00:04:14.197 --> 00:04:20.770 to 11, and I'm here for it, I think, we can all be safe sometimes, right. 00:04:20.820 --> 00:04:24.610 But you know, safe breeds a certain type of complacency. 00:04:25.270 --> 00:04:30.340 And I think we all need to be reminded that there is an 11 on the dial. 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:30.900 Right? 00:04:30.990 --> 00:04:33.340 And sometimes you need to chase it. 00:04:33.692 --> 00:04:36.532 Duke: And if there isn't 11 on the dial, you can make an 11 on the dial. 00:04:36.837 --> 00:04:38.827 CJ: Yeah, man, I would get some tape and a sharpie. 00:04:38.912 --> 00:04:39.432 Duke: That's right. 00:04:39.868 --> 00:04:41.928 So it's, it's a little bit vague. 00:04:42.028 --> 00:04:44.158 It's a little bit unstructured, but that's what we're doing. 00:04:44.978 --> 00:04:47.558 Cause there's a lot of people that need to go to 11. 00:04:47.588 --> 00:04:50.735 I'd say, all of the people coming into the environment, 00:04:51.325 --> 00:04:52.998 . It's, um, It's not easy. 00:04:53.038 --> 00:04:54.798 You're going to have to work at an 11. 00:04:54.900 --> 00:04:56.390 to get the success that you want, 00:04:57.310 --> 00:04:57.500 CJ: Yeah, 00:04:57.560 --> 00:04:58.970 Duke: success that you're being advertised. 00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:02.770 So go for that, but also go for a lot more you know, nobody's going to 00:05:02.820 --> 00:05:03.960 give it to you on a silver platter. 00:05:03.960 --> 00:05:04.260 Right. 00:05:04.280 --> 00:05:08.090 And here I am with 15 years of experience and I'm, I, myself, I'm thinking like, 00:05:08.090 --> 00:05:10.177 man, am I really doing the best I can? 00:05:10.177 --> 00:05:11.757 Is this the best I can do? 00:05:12.137 --> 00:05:13.817 And no, it totally isn't. 00:05:14.387 --> 00:05:18.883 So this episode is For me, at least it's useful for me as well, 00:05:19.285 --> 00:05:19.485 . CJ: now. 00:05:19.485 --> 00:05:22.402 So, you know what, I, I love how you started that out Because there 00:05:22.402 --> 00:05:26.282 are a lot of people coming into the ecosystem . And I really do think, , they 00:05:26.282 --> 00:05:28.045 need to hear push it to the limit. 00:05:28.095 --> 00:05:28.345 Right. 00:05:28.345 --> 00:05:29.675 They need to hear, turn it to 11. 00:05:29.865 --> 00:05:30.065 Right. 00:05:30.065 --> 00:05:30.475 And there's some. 00:05:30.785 --> 00:05:34.885 Great examples of folks who have pushed it to the limit and who have taken 00:05:34.885 --> 00:05:37.582 it to that , number 11 on the dial. 00:05:37.672 --> 00:05:39.622 . And have seen it pay off for them. 00:05:39.922 --> 00:05:40.192 Right. 00:05:40.192 --> 00:05:43.082 So when I'm thinking about that, I'm thinking about Kali, right? 00:05:43.082 --> 00:05:46.562 Like Holly came into the ecosystem and she was like, I'm 00:05:46.562 --> 00:05:49.632 going to make this thing my own. 00:05:50.067 --> 00:05:52.557 Duke: yeah, like, everything was against her too, right? 00:05:52.567 --> 00:05:53.617 She just decided. 00:05:54.187 --> 00:05:56.677 She just decided, like, I'm gonna do it. 00:05:57.007 --> 00:05:59.097 But then it was also , she backed it up with action. 00:05:59.140 --> 00:06:01.680 ask her about her golden hours, ? Three in the morning. 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:02.860 She's up learning. 00:06:02.870 --> 00:06:05.860 Cause that's the clearest moment in her mind during the day. 00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:07.180 She just get up. 00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:08.960 The first thing she's thinking about is service. 00:06:08.960 --> 00:06:11.693 Now, the first thing she's doing is service now whatever happens 00:06:11.863 --> 00:06:14.083 the rest of her day, the best part of her day is going to service 00:06:15.018 --> 00:06:15.358 CJ: Right. 00:06:15.718 --> 00:06:16.898 Like just amazing. 00:06:17.148 --> 00:06:18.288 And then what else does she do? 00:06:18.288 --> 00:06:21.168 She's like, yeah, no, I'm going to start talking to people about service now. 00:06:21.428 --> 00:06:22.605 And it's like, know, who are you? 00:06:22.695 --> 00:06:25.285 I'm Kali and I'm talking to you about service now. 00:06:25.330 --> 00:06:26.715 that's enough right there. 00:06:26.855 --> 00:06:29.195 Like knowing that, that right there, that's enough. 00:06:29.205 --> 00:06:30.605 Like you're going to take my call. 00:06:30.795 --> 00:06:32.225 You're going to get on this mic with me. 00:06:32.225 --> 00:06:33.475 We're going to have a conversation. 00:06:33.475 --> 00:06:35.075 It's like, yeah. 00:06:35.075 --> 00:06:35.140 Yeah. 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:36.790 Right. 00:06:36.790 --> 00:06:38.200 Because what's the worst that can happen? 00:06:38.210 --> 00:06:39.710 You can call somebody up and they say no. 00:06:40.280 --> 00:06:40.490 Okay. 00:06:40.490 --> 00:06:42.813 So you call somebody else, pushing it to the limit. 00:06:43.093 --> 00:06:44.620 Just, go, go, go. 00:06:44.620 --> 00:06:47.250 Like, you don't know, like, you don't know what you don't know. 00:06:47.250 --> 00:06:51.197 And a no isn't like a, isn't a death sentence either. 00:06:51.197 --> 00:06:51.517 Right. 00:06:51.517 --> 00:06:53.947 Like a no is something that just needs to be overcome. 00:06:54.527 --> 00:06:54.807 Right. 00:06:54.837 --> 00:06:56.107 And where's Kali now? 00:06:56.947 --> 00:07:00.706 Kali's an MVP, 00:07:00.807 --> 00:07:01.397 Duke: she started 00:07:01.485 --> 00:07:02.783 CJ: Like boom, 00:07:03.068 --> 00:07:03.428 Duke: Yep. 00:07:04.033 --> 00:07:04.463 CJ: you know what? 00:07:04.503 --> 00:07:06.983 I want to give another shout out to Kalisha Moore. 00:07:07.293 --> 00:07:07.663 Right. 00:07:07.663 --> 00:07:11.053 Like Kalisha started in, in the last year, I don't even know if she's been 00:07:11.053 --> 00:07:12.643 in the ecosystem for a whole year. 00:07:12.833 --> 00:07:17.803 And she, kicked it off and she, she's found that, S and P D G group. 00:07:17.853 --> 00:07:18.183 Right. 00:07:18.183 --> 00:07:19.973 Like, she's got, they have their own slack. 00:07:19.973 --> 00:07:21.433 She's doing interviews. 00:07:21.433 --> 00:07:25.243 They're doing webinars and she's a rising star now. 00:07:25.403 --> 00:07:25.913 you know, anyway, 00:07:26.148 --> 00:07:28.298 Duke: Well, let's, let's break down some of the lessons though. 00:07:29.158 --> 00:07:32.638 , it's one of the things there's point at the example, but maybe less obvious 00:07:32.638 --> 00:07:34.108 is what is it that they did different. 00:07:34.272 --> 00:07:37.052 with Kali, backed it up with action. 00:07:37.412 --> 00:07:40.342 It wasn't, just the words service now is going to be my thing. 00:07:40.352 --> 00:07:43.152 It's the willingness to get up at 3 a. 00:07:43.152 --> 00:07:43.402 m. 00:07:43.528 --> 00:07:45.798 It's the sacrifice of other parts of your life. 00:07:45.998 --> 00:07:46.328 CJ: Yes. 00:07:46.798 --> 00:07:48.258 Duke: Nobody's making extra time for you. 00:07:48.258 --> 00:07:48.578 Right? 00:07:48.608 --> 00:07:50.062 And I know the matrix had that line. 00:07:50.062 --> 00:07:51.662 How can we take time if we don't make time? 00:07:51.662 --> 00:07:53.482 But I'm just like, I don't, time isn't made. 00:07:53.532 --> 00:07:54.702 It's always taken. 00:07:55.242 --> 00:07:57.542 You must take time. 00:07:58.272 --> 00:07:59.392 it like, you know what I mean? 00:07:59.522 --> 00:08:00.792 It like the violence of it. 00:08:01.532 --> 00:08:01.852 CJ: Dude. 00:08:01.882 --> 00:08:06.132 Like, I, I got so many, , things around like taken versus given, right? 00:08:06.132 --> 00:08:07.495 power freedom. 00:08:07.542 --> 00:08:08.912 these are things that have to be taken. 00:08:08.912 --> 00:08:10.072 It can never be given to you. 00:08:10.372 --> 00:08:10.722 Right. 00:08:10.752 --> 00:08:11.232 And. 00:08:11.712 --> 00:08:15.182 Honestly, like, so freedom is a great one here, a lot of folks are getting into the 00:08:15.232 --> 00:08:17.412 ServiceNow ecosystem for freedom, right? 00:08:17.412 --> 00:08:18.662 But how do you get freedom? 00:08:18.992 --> 00:08:23.382 If you think getting freedom is sitting in a class and just 00:08:23.392 --> 00:08:25.402 learning, you're not getting freedom. 00:08:25.412 --> 00:08:28.332 You're asking somebody to give it to you, You got to take that 00:08:28.342 --> 00:08:30.212 learning in that class, right? 00:08:30.212 --> 00:08:31.362 And then go and apply it. 00:08:31.842 --> 00:08:34.492 . And that's, what we've seen folks do who have been successful. 00:08:34.588 --> 00:08:39.035 We've seen them say, okay, I'm, in next gen or some other program. 00:08:39.035 --> 00:08:42.555 And, I'm being taught these skills, I'm going to take these skills that I'm being 00:08:42.575 --> 00:08:44.885 taught and then go outside the program. 00:08:45.365 --> 00:08:50.212 And turn them into practical examples, of learning and not only that, right? 00:08:50.212 --> 00:08:53.792 Like, I'm going to gather other folks into this with me. 00:08:54.082 --> 00:08:58.062 And so now I formed a unofficial accountability group, right? 00:08:58.062 --> 00:08:59.702 Cause I think that part of it is important. 00:08:59.722 --> 00:09:02.662 What I've seen Kalisha do and what I've seen Kali do is that they didn't 00:09:02.662 --> 00:09:04.782 just do this lesson by themselves. 00:09:05.142 --> 00:09:05.762 Duke: that's right. 00:09:05.907 --> 00:09:09.527 CJ: They got other people and surrounding themselves with those people. 00:09:09.527 --> 00:09:11.617 Right now, you've got this accountability now. 00:09:11.617 --> 00:09:15.050 So if you, if you're tired one day, somebody else isn't going to be tired 00:09:15.060 --> 00:09:18.210 that day and they're going to grab you and drag you and they're going to pull you. 00:09:18.210 --> 00:09:18.590 Right. 00:09:18.980 --> 00:09:22.597 Like how many times have we seen that montage in a movie, where the Navy 00:09:22.597 --> 00:09:24.232 seals are coming out of the ocean. 00:09:24.232 --> 00:09:24.537 Right. 00:09:24.537 --> 00:09:27.797 And one guy's lagging behind and, you know, somebody grabs like, 00:09:27.797 --> 00:09:30.407 come on, you know, that's this. 00:09:30.770 --> 00:09:34.090 So, so what I say, the next thing is, is that what I've seen folks do 00:09:34.100 --> 00:09:37.760 is, surround themselves with other folks and create that accountability 00:09:37.760 --> 00:09:39.630 network so that they can push forward. 00:09:40.060 --> 00:09:41.470 Duke: And we'll have it all in the show notes. 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:42.990 There's the ServiceNow community. 00:09:42.990 --> 00:09:47.620 There's the SN dev Slack channel, the, , ServiceNow developer discord. 00:09:48.030 --> 00:09:49.560 , there's LinkedIn, man. 00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:52.730 Like there's so many places you can, and should interact. 00:09:53.280 --> 00:09:55.380 I've said it over and over and over again, too. 00:09:55.403 --> 00:09:59.180 one of the things that people kind of sleep on is just drill. 00:09:59.373 --> 00:10:02.473 my dad was an infantryman, And so when he wanted certain things 00:10:02.473 --> 00:10:03.843 done, it had to be just so, right? 00:10:04.070 --> 00:10:05.170 Here's how we brush our teeth. 00:10:05.190 --> 00:10:06.600 We brush it this way all the time. 00:10:06.950 --> 00:10:07.990 Here's how we make our bed. 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.870 We make our bed this way all the time. 00:10:09.880 --> 00:10:13.180 And part of your morning routine was you first do the bed, then you do your brush. 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:14.380 It was just so, right? 00:10:14.830 --> 00:10:18.105 But then you drill it enough and it becomes second nature. 00:10:18.625 --> 00:10:20.545 You don't think about how it's going to get done. 00:10:20.555 --> 00:10:23.495 It just gets done magically because you've just greased the groove. 00:10:24.025 --> 00:10:24.515 Right? 00:10:24.610 --> 00:10:24.900 CJ: like that. 00:10:24.940 --> 00:10:25.250 I like 00:10:25.285 --> 00:10:27.835 Duke: And, that's just the way it works mechanically now. 00:10:27.875 --> 00:10:31.605 And so I started off my service now journey with drill. 00:10:31.635 --> 00:10:37.195 It's like every morning come into the office, get my coffee sit and read. 00:10:37.278 --> 00:10:41.298 wiki, sit and read whatever, whatever passed for community back in those 00:10:41.298 --> 00:10:45.795 days, Um, and it was just like half an hour of learning and as community 00:10:45.795 --> 00:10:49.405 improved, it would be half an hour of answering questions or looking 00:10:49.405 --> 00:10:51.535 at questions that had right answers. 00:10:51.822 --> 00:10:55.912 the point wasn't necessarily to, it's not like I had a focus to it. 00:10:55.912 --> 00:10:57.742 Like, I'm going to learn CSM or I'm going to learn. 00:10:58.192 --> 00:11:02.592 Whatever it was, just 30 minutes of every day had to be dedicated 00:11:02.592 --> 00:11:04.082 to this 30 minutes at least. 00:11:04.742 --> 00:11:05.292 CJ: Right. 00:11:05.797 --> 00:11:09.597 Duke: And then the dividend on that is five years later, 10 years 00:11:09.597 --> 00:11:13.907 later of 30 minutes a day, every workday, stupid amounts of hours. 00:11:14.427 --> 00:11:16.007 I saw Chuck Tomasi's post the other day. 00:11:16.127 --> 00:11:18.507 He was marking his 5, 000th day in service. 00:11:18.507 --> 00:11:18.687 Now 00:11:18.920 --> 00:11:19.790 CJ: Yes, crazy. 00:11:20.350 --> 00:11:24.177 Duke: imagine if you just learned one thing every day and committed 00:11:24.177 --> 00:11:28.820 to that and stuck to it and drill and 5, 000 things learned. 00:11:29.695 --> 00:11:30.285 CJ: Yeah. 00:11:30.400 --> 00:11:31.830 Duke: 5, 000 service now facts. 00:11:31.961 --> 00:11:40.215 CJ: know that I cannot give you 5, 000 service dump facts, right? 00:11:40.265 --> 00:11:42.315 I consider myself pretty good at this, right? 00:11:42.315 --> 00:11:44.665 But there's no way , but imagine if you could. 00:11:45.215 --> 00:11:45.315 Right. 00:11:45.405 --> 00:11:47.802 Imagine if you could and do, I just want to say this, right. 00:11:47.802 --> 00:11:50.572 Cause you and I have talked about your 30 minutes a day before. 00:11:50.572 --> 00:11:50.812 Right. 00:11:50.822 --> 00:11:53.822 And, privately, I've told you how much I've admired that because 00:11:53.822 --> 00:11:55.782 I wish that I could do, and I haven't been able to do it. 00:11:55.962 --> 00:11:57.812 And in fairness, I shouldn't say I wish I could do it. 00:11:57.852 --> 00:11:59.231 I can't do it. 00:11:59.332 --> 00:12:04.052 . I just haven't put in the effort , to actually make that one of my habits. 00:12:04.132 --> 00:12:07.752 And that's why I admire that in you, because I know how much effort 00:12:07.752 --> 00:12:09.802 it takes to do 30 minutes a day. 00:12:09.802 --> 00:12:13.212 And I see you do it effortlessly and I see the results of that, man. 00:12:13.212 --> 00:12:15.432 And I, I am just, yeah, I'm in awe. 00:12:15.712 --> 00:12:19.092 . And so my point , to elevating that is that it works. 00:12:19.397 --> 00:12:22.377 People, minutes a day works. 00:12:22.727 --> 00:12:23.497 Here we are. 00:12:23.517 --> 00:12:27.717 , I'm talking to the guy who got me talking on this podcast, cause 00:12:27.727 --> 00:12:29.287 Lord knows I didn't want to do it. 00:12:30.897 --> 00:12:32.647 , and part of that is just 30 minutes a day. 00:12:32.987 --> 00:12:35.607 So be consistent and drill, right? 00:12:35.617 --> 00:12:36.767 Drill, drill, drill. 00:12:36.917 --> 00:12:37.457 I love that. 00:12:37.867 --> 00:12:38.387 I love that. 00:12:38.802 --> 00:12:40.842 Duke: I'll tell you what, though, man, if I could go back. 00:12:40.902 --> 00:12:42.742 We said this on the Oscar podcast too, right? 00:12:42.772 --> 00:12:48.272 But if I could go back, the one thing I would radically change is taking notes. 00:12:48.575 --> 00:12:53.415 I have lost a shocking, depressing amount of knowledge for just not 00:12:53.425 --> 00:12:54.925 having it written down somewhere. 00:12:55.512 --> 00:12:56.352 Like, Oh shit, shit. 00:12:56.352 --> 00:12:56.892 I did that. 00:12:56.892 --> 00:12:57.912 I wrote a script that did that. 00:12:57.912 --> 00:12:58.432 Exactly. 00:12:58.432 --> 00:12:59.022 Where is it? 00:12:59.032 --> 00:13:03.172 Like way back in the garbage bin of the subconscious is 00:13:03.212 --> 00:13:04.352 floating around there somewhere. 00:13:04.352 --> 00:13:04.811 Yeah. 00:13:04.957 --> 00:13:05.727 CJ: Absolutely. 00:13:05.887 --> 00:13:06.167 Right. 00:13:06.167 --> 00:13:10.307 And I've got, so I, at one point in my career, , I took notes and I stored 00:13:10.307 --> 00:13:13.033 a bunch of scripts, snippets and stuff, and I still have those things. 00:13:13.050 --> 00:13:14.260 But what I didn't do. 00:13:14.570 --> 00:13:17.890 And what AI makes it a lot easier to do now is I didn't comment 00:13:17.900 --> 00:13:19.570 those script snippets, right? 00:13:19.590 --> 00:13:21.360 So how do you find what you wrote? 00:13:21.400 --> 00:13:22.860 If you don't have any comments, 00:13:23.875 --> 00:13:24.095 Duke: Yeah. 00:13:24.095 --> 00:13:25.125 How do you understand it? 00:13:25.125 --> 00:13:27.545 You ever do that thing where you write something like a week later, you look at 00:13:27.545 --> 00:13:29.095 it and you're like, whose script is that? 00:13:29.430 --> 00:13:29.860 CJ: right? 00:13:30.220 --> 00:13:31.380 Especially if it's complicated. 00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:32.950 What was that supposed to do? 00:13:35.520 --> 00:13:36.030 Yeah. 00:13:36.075 --> 00:13:37.635 Duke: So write stuff down, folks. 00:13:37.635 --> 00:13:38.245 Write it down. 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:41.670 CJ: add context, especially if it's cold, I mean, I haven't, I've never 00:13:41.670 --> 00:13:45.180 actually tried this with actual, human scale language notes, but 00:13:45.247 --> 00:13:49.060 maybe you could actually get, chat GPT and notes to your notes, right? 00:13:49.060 --> 00:13:52.110 Like context sensitive notes to your notes so that you can find them easier 00:13:52.110 --> 00:13:54.840 to search in your, one note or whatever. 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:57.410 The other thing is that people use notion, right? 00:13:57.410 --> 00:14:00.410 Maybe, uh, I can add comments for you there to make this 00:14:00.410 --> 00:14:01.600 stuff easier to surface, right? 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:03.070 Because that's also important. 00:14:03.070 --> 00:14:05.670 It's not just taking the notes, but being able to find the thing that 00:14:05.670 --> 00:14:07.560 you're, writing down is really important. 00:14:07.825 --> 00:14:10.355 Duke: Yeah, once your notes gets to a certain size, for sure. 00:14:10.925 --> 00:14:12.255 CJ: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. 00:14:24.162 --> 00:14:25.842 , Duke: gotta strap, all of that. 00:14:29.492 --> 00:14:41.272 Okay, we're back. 00:14:42.502 --> 00:14:46.782 Another thing, I'm totally off my track now. 00:14:48.132 --> 00:14:48.502 CJ: reflect. 00:14:53.399 --> 00:15:00.589 Yeah. 00:15:00.974 --> 00:15:04.254 Duke: Any more than I already do, because 1 thing that CJ and the 00:15:04.254 --> 00:15:08.874 Duke has really provided me over the past couple of years is that time 00:15:08.874 --> 00:15:13.696 to reflect, , we're reflecting on our careers, reflecting on our jobs 00:15:14.111 --> 00:15:14.401 CJ: Yep. 00:15:14.716 --> 00:15:18.276 Duke: for the audience's benefit, but it's also calcifying stuff in our own mind. 00:15:18.421 --> 00:15:19.561 CJ: Yeah, absolutely. 00:15:19.561 --> 00:15:19.841 Right. 00:15:19.901 --> 00:15:23.011 There's a predominant theory in public speaking, right? 00:15:23.061 --> 00:15:25.981 When you're talking to an audience that they don't hear you unless you say it 00:15:25.981 --> 00:15:31.851 three times, I seem, I also feel like I don't internalize a thing, right? 00:15:31.891 --> 00:15:36.831 Unless I reflect on it three times or, to integrate it into my, consciousness 00:15:36.831 --> 00:15:39.741 or body of work experience, whatever you want to call it, right? 00:15:39.741 --> 00:15:39.761 Yeah. 00:15:39.998 --> 00:15:43.178 talking about it here with you, Duke, that's one thing I write it 00:15:43.178 --> 00:15:44.758 down again somewhere else, right? 00:15:44.758 --> 00:15:45.908 As another thing, right? 00:15:45.908 --> 00:15:50.268 And then, you know, however, whatever the third thing become and then so what 00:15:50.278 --> 00:15:53.551 happens in this is another and I can't find the guy that I, jacked it from. 00:15:53.551 --> 00:15:57.364 But, , he says, I write a lot of content about the things that I'm thinking 00:15:57.374 --> 00:16:01.414 about because when I do an interview, I'm no longer doing an interview 00:16:01.414 --> 00:16:03.504 where I'm thinking about the subject. 00:16:03.544 --> 00:16:05.154 I'm just recalling the things that I've 00:16:05.439 --> 00:16:05.999 Duke: Yes, 00:16:07.684 --> 00:16:08.154 CJ: right? 00:16:08.649 --> 00:16:09.169 Duke: yes. 00:16:09.209 --> 00:16:12.449 And that's part of the reason I participate so much. 00:16:12.949 --> 00:16:17.429 , I do it mostly from the service now developer discord now, but it's so 00:16:17.429 --> 00:16:21.419 important to engage with other people's questions because There's like the set 00:16:21.419 --> 00:16:23.159 of stuff that you know for sure, right? 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:24.419 That you could just dead recall. 00:16:24.599 --> 00:16:28.629 But , there's like such a potential energy, that's a much larger set of 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:34.499 things you can know, but you won't know until somebody asks you, and then 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:35.689 it's like blink, blink, blink, blink. 00:16:35.689 --> 00:16:39.399 All the pieces fall into place, but those pieces would have never fallen 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:40.809 into place unless somebody asked you. 00:16:41.099 --> 00:16:46.269 So I've been so Motivated and captivated by this idea that there's all these 00:16:46.309 --> 00:16:50.449 things that I could know that I don't because nobody's asked me yet. 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:53.179 CJ: Yes, yes, 00:16:54.449 --> 00:16:56.519 Duke: And so I'm just like, ask me questions. 00:16:57.999 --> 00:16:59.489 Please ask me questions. 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:02.209 ? CJ: Because then you got to go in and you figure it out, right? 00:17:02.209 --> 00:17:03.179 Or you know it, right? 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:05.019 And you're sharing it or whatever, right? 00:17:05.059 --> 00:17:05.884 Like the whole nine yards. 00:17:05.914 --> 00:17:06.714 Everything we just said. 00:17:06.754 --> 00:17:08.324 Yeah, no, no, absolutely. 00:17:08.324 --> 00:17:10.314 Do like, how do you know if something's important unless 00:17:10.314 --> 00:17:12.894 somebody's asking you about it and how do you make that top of mind? 00:17:12.894 --> 00:17:14.614 Actually your questions, love the questions. 00:17:14.938 --> 00:17:15.138 All right. 00:17:15.138 --> 00:17:15.838 What else we got? 00:17:15.919 --> 00:17:17.069 Duke: going to the next level. 00:17:17.484 --> 00:17:19.524 we can talk about career planning. 00:17:20.259 --> 00:17:20.649 CJ: Yeah. 00:17:20.649 --> 00:17:20.989 All right. 00:17:21.023 --> 00:17:21.753 That's a good one. 00:17:21.753 --> 00:17:23.273 For me, I didn't plan my career. 00:17:23.273 --> 00:17:24.589 I I kinda happened into it. 00:17:24.829 --> 00:17:29.409 , but I will tell you that I prepared myself to happen into it. 00:17:29.929 --> 00:17:34.059 Right, and that sounds like next level because it kind of is, what 00:17:34.059 --> 00:17:37.089 I've done is that, I say, yes to everything, you know, and you might, 00:17:37.089 --> 00:17:38.439 this might sound familiar, right? 00:17:38.439 --> 00:17:41.239 I said, there's a lot of knowledge last year and ever 00:17:41.239 --> 00:17:42.759 since, but it's the truth, right? 00:17:42.819 --> 00:17:44.039 . Opportunity surface. 00:17:44.179 --> 00:17:47.019 , and you then have a choice to make, right? 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.529 Are you going to say no to the thing? 00:17:49.549 --> 00:17:51.059 Or are you going to say yes to the thing? 00:17:51.249 --> 00:17:54.519 And what I'll say here now is what I've said previously. 00:17:54.529 --> 00:18:01.479 Like, I can't recall a situation where I had a positive impact 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:03.199 to my life by saying no. 00:18:03.439 --> 00:18:04.849 So there are choices that I've made. 00:18:04.859 --> 00:18:06.949 . That were not successful, obviously. 00:18:06.949 --> 00:18:07.099 Right. 00:18:07.099 --> 00:18:08.419 Like everyone's going to have those. 00:18:08.469 --> 00:18:13.679 . But there has never been a successful choice that originated from a no. 00:18:13.936 --> 00:18:18.416 So, you know, when an opportunity knocks, when you're considering whether or not 00:18:18.416 --> 00:18:20.256 you're going to do it, think about that. 00:18:20.256 --> 00:18:24.136 The only way that you're going to see a positive benefit is if you say yes. 00:18:24.481 --> 00:18:27.181 it doesn't matter if you have a career plan at that point, right? 00:18:27.181 --> 00:18:27.901 Well, you should. 00:18:28.021 --> 00:18:30.961 Elaine Duke's wanna talk more about that 'cause he's better at that than I am. 00:18:31.231 --> 00:18:35.041 But to set yourself up for the career plan, you gotta be open to 00:18:35.041 --> 00:18:37.201 saying yes to opportunities, right? 00:18:37.201 --> 00:18:39.211 And so just that's the base. 00:18:39.376 --> 00:18:41.836 Duke: Everybody talks about like, plan the career, but. 00:18:42.391 --> 00:18:45.101 Someone told me once like the older you get, the more you realize 00:18:45.101 --> 00:18:46.631 like life kind of happened to you. 00:18:46.681 --> 00:18:47.031 Right? 00:18:47.421 --> 00:18:47.751 CJ: Yeah. 00:18:47.811 --> 00:18:48.081 Yeah, 00:18:48.221 --> 00:18:49.951 Duke: like you decided your way through it. 00:18:50.021 --> 00:18:54.721 but there's a certain sense of the plan is to be capable, like you were saying, 00:18:55.195 --> 00:18:59.346 build the capabilities and increase the probability that when opportunity 00:18:59.346 --> 00:19:06.346 knocks, you will be at home, waiting for it and not out doing something else. 00:19:06.396 --> 00:19:10.346 And so especially for the beginners, they're under so much pressure. 00:19:10.396 --> 00:19:11.806 Oh, you got to pick a niche. 00:19:12.126 --> 00:19:16.716 You can pick ITOM, you can pick CSM, you can pick SPM and niche down, niche down. 00:19:16.746 --> 00:19:17.556 It's all about the niches. 00:19:17.556 --> 00:19:18.956 Go, go, go, niche, niche, niche. 00:19:19.431 --> 00:19:24.961 And it's like, they're not even through the, they just got their CSA. 00:19:25.671 --> 00:19:28.461 They haven't even had like a year's worth of practical experience and 00:19:28.491 --> 00:19:30.111 people are telling them to niche down. 00:19:30.601 --> 00:19:32.511 And it's like, how, how? 00:19:33.294 --> 00:19:35.609 CJ: So the only time I'd say that you can niche down the 00:19:35.609 --> 00:19:40.589 early is if you are an industry, , specific subject matter expert. 00:19:41.224 --> 00:19:41.804 Duke: yeah, that's 00:19:41.859 --> 00:19:42.359 CJ: Right. 00:19:42.739 --> 00:19:44.289 That is the only time it works. 00:19:44.569 --> 00:19:47.679 Otherwise, like, you need a broader base before you can niche 00:19:48.014 --> 00:19:48.564 Duke: That's right. 00:19:48.604 --> 00:19:54.069 There's three variables that influence and where you niche, the 00:19:54.069 --> 00:19:59.236 combination of interest, baseline skill and, , proximity to opportunity, 00:19:59.961 --> 00:20:00.281 CJ: Yes. 00:20:00.656 --> 00:20:03.846 Duke: You get somebody who's, maybe they've been a cabinet maker and they 00:20:03.896 --> 00:20:05.416 don't like being a cabinet maker. 00:20:06.151 --> 00:20:06.531 CJ: Yeah. 00:20:06.856 --> 00:20:09.226 , Duke: they got the capability, but they don't have the interest. 00:20:09.397 --> 00:20:09.967 CJ: Right. 00:20:10.077 --> 00:20:12.297 Duke: and , my journey with SPM was like that. 00:20:12.347 --> 00:20:16.707 I didn't have the interest, but I did have the capability in terms 00:20:16.707 --> 00:20:19.717 of like, I had enough platform knowledge to learn it very quickly. 00:20:19.967 --> 00:20:24.747 And I had the last variable, the proximity to opportunity was so vast. 00:20:24.747 --> 00:20:26.997 Like I had a customer that basically , we don't want anybody else. 00:20:26.997 --> 00:20:30.447 We want you and we'll pay you this, obscene amount of money. 00:20:30.679 --> 00:20:32.389 To learn and take this journey with us. 00:20:32.729 --> 00:20:37.039 So it was like the opportunity is what drove me into the niche. 00:20:37.789 --> 00:20:40.782 But if I think about that from the outside, what am I going to do? 00:20:40.782 --> 00:20:43.712 Am I going to study SPM for eight, for like eight months? 00:20:44.204 --> 00:20:44.764 CJ: Yeah. 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:45.769 Duke: that on my own? 00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:47.879 Not knowing that there's payoff at the end. 00:20:48.504 --> 00:20:48.724 CJ: Yeah. 00:20:48.724 --> 00:20:49.704 Why would you do that? 00:20:49.724 --> 00:20:50.414 Right. 00:20:51.099 --> 00:20:53.189 Duke: I think, I think a lot of people think it's just like, oh, I'm going 00:20:53.189 --> 00:20:54.769 to study the now learning stuff. 00:20:54.929 --> 00:20:56.349 I'm going to get my exam. 00:20:56.399 --> 00:20:58.869 That's something you can do in, two, three weeks. 00:20:59.054 --> 00:21:02.334 if you're good academically, but it's not being credible in the 00:21:02.344 --> 00:21:04.294 ecosystem, not by a long shot. 00:21:04.494 --> 00:21:04.984 CJ: Right., 00:21:05.030 --> 00:21:09.230 Duke: If I told you that credibility baseline, credibility takes you 00:21:09.270 --> 00:21:13.090 eight to 12 months to get , on any of the niches, you'd be a lot more 00:21:13.090 --> 00:21:14.580 careful about which one you picked. 00:21:14.760 --> 00:21:17.360 You'd be waiting for somebody to say like, Oh, we need this. 00:21:18.080 --> 00:21:22.370 You'd be waiting to see the demand before you went and paid that sacrifice. 00:21:22.810 --> 00:21:23.880 CJ: Man, that's so true. 00:21:23.967 --> 00:21:27.267 Because you would, value that investment differently if you 00:21:27.267 --> 00:21:28.807 didn't think there was a payoff. 00:21:29.050 --> 00:21:29.420 Right. 00:21:29.490 --> 00:21:31.200 Or if the payoff was uncertain., 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:36.200 Duke: This is another thing about turning it to 11 is you have got to divorce 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:40.550 yourself from the marketing bullshit in the ecosystem in any ecosystem, 00:21:41.170 --> 00:21:41.500 CJ: Yeah. 00:21:42.010 --> 00:21:42.240 Duke: right? 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.756 If somebody is telling you, this is how long it takes and it sounds, 00:21:46.020 --> 00:21:50.510 , amazing, have a voice in your head that says, but what if it's not that, 00:21:52.276 --> 00:21:52.786 CJ: Yeah. 00:21:53.043 --> 00:21:56.183 Duke: Because I think a lot of people want to believe that being an expert 00:21:56.373 --> 00:22:02.243 in SPM is one cert away and you get the cert by taking a course and 00:22:02.243 --> 00:22:04.733 writing a multiple choice exam on it. 00:22:05.103 --> 00:22:07.013 And that is not expertise. 00:22:07.361 --> 00:22:12.978 CJ: I think there's a willingness to sell expertise as something 00:22:12.978 --> 00:22:14.941 that is easily attainable. 00:22:15.028 --> 00:22:17.233 But when it's not, So, there's novice, right? 00:22:17.233 --> 00:22:18.543 That's the very beginning, right? 00:22:18.553 --> 00:22:22.353 Then there's expertise where you've walked down the road significantly. 00:22:22.353 --> 00:22:22.583 Right. 00:22:22.583 --> 00:22:27.003 And then there's a whole middle road, ? Where you are competent. 00:22:27.618 --> 00:22:31.438 . And I think the problem is, , is that, you know, make yourself competent 00:22:31.438 --> 00:22:34.248 in six months does not sell books. 00:22:34.828 --> 00:22:35.138 Duke: Nope. 00:22:36.388 --> 00:22:36.838 Months. 00:22:37.028 --> 00:22:37.338 What? 00:22:40.028 --> 00:22:41.858 Yeah, no, everybody wants that quick. 00:22:42.098 --> 00:22:45.468 CJ: but months in that sentence, but also competent in that sentence. 00:22:45.468 --> 00:22:45.725 Right. 00:22:45.765 --> 00:22:47.905 like, you don't want to go to a job interview and say, 00:22:47.905 --> 00:22:49.125 yeah, no, I'm competent. 00:22:49.395 --> 00:22:49.605 Right. 00:22:49.605 --> 00:22:50.495 Like, I'm great. 00:22:50.710 --> 00:22:55.193 and so you sell great, people sell great, they sell quick, they sell great 00:22:55.443 --> 00:22:57.193 and they make things sound unrealistic. 00:22:57.243 --> 00:22:57.523 Right. 00:22:57.523 --> 00:23:02.443 But ultimately I think competence is always easier to get than expertise. 00:23:02.713 --> 00:23:05.088 . And competence is more than fine. 00:23:05.088 --> 00:23:05.263 Right. 00:23:05.263 --> 00:23:06.413 If you dress it up well. 00:23:06.698 --> 00:23:10.218 But I just think, you know, I think sometimes people flame out because they've 00:23:10.218 --> 00:23:14.908 been sold the concept that expertise is something that they can attain quickly, 00:23:15.058 --> 00:23:16.888 and then they find that it's impossible. 00:23:17.025 --> 00:23:20.605 But competency is something that they probably could have obtained in that 00:23:20.605 --> 00:23:24.165 same amount of time in which they were looking to obtain the expertise. 00:23:24.205 --> 00:23:26.355 And that is something that you can build on. 00:23:26.355 --> 00:23:27.935 And that is something that gets you in the door. 00:23:28.281 --> 00:23:31.671 Duke: And I will say once you found your stride, I know it's it's so hard 00:23:31.671 --> 00:23:34.105 right now, To be in the beginner's seat. 00:23:34.455 --> 00:23:36.511 And, you've got the certifications. 00:23:36.511 --> 00:23:38.461 You did everything everybody told you to do. 00:23:38.481 --> 00:23:40.741 And it's still like, find a job. 00:23:40.751 --> 00:23:41.831 I don't get that 1st job. 00:23:42.041 --> 00:23:44.501 Everybody's saying I need X years of experience and whatever. 00:23:44.501 --> 00:23:49.025 But as soon as you breach that barrier, understand and believe that, 00:23:49.116 --> 00:23:51.166 What coffee is for closers, right? 00:23:51.786 --> 00:23:52.116 CJ: Yeah. 00:23:52.116 --> 00:23:52.516 Yeah. 00:23:52.886 --> 00:23:53.516 Duke: Is the term 00:23:53.684 --> 00:23:54.380 CJ: Yeah. 00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:59.373 Duke: you have to do the hard stuff and the people who, get the hard stuff and 00:23:59.373 --> 00:24:02.453 do it are the ones who get the rewards. 00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:04.119 CJ: You know what? 00:24:04.120 --> 00:24:07.270 You said something in there, that I want to dive into because I was 00:24:07.290 --> 00:24:09.310 always find that this thing annoys me. 00:24:09.320 --> 00:24:11.010 the X years of experience, right? 00:24:11.270 --> 00:24:13.950 And what I want to tell folks out there is that you might not have X 00:24:13.950 --> 00:24:17.530 years of experience, whatever X is, but that's fine because X years of 00:24:17.530 --> 00:24:22.155 experience is really just a proxy for determining That's Competency, right? 00:24:22.205 --> 00:24:25.415 But from for determining, you know, whether or not you actually can 00:24:25.415 --> 00:24:27.555 deliver the thing that's that exists. 00:24:27.715 --> 00:24:31.705 And so the only thing that you need to do to get past that X years 00:24:31.705 --> 00:24:36.935 of experience gate is demonstrate the competency that they're trying 00:24:36.935 --> 00:24:39.055 to actually understand, right? 00:24:39.055 --> 00:24:42.675 Like the competency that they're trying to discover, right? 00:24:42.735 --> 00:24:46.810 So Don't worry about if you've got, two years, , of experience for an 00:24:46.810 --> 00:24:51.260 entry level job, ? What they care about is, can you do the job right? 00:24:51.320 --> 00:24:54.160 Cause nobody cares about really what you've done anywhere else. 00:24:54.360 --> 00:24:57.660 They care about what you can do for me here now. 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.200 . And they use all of those other metrics, 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:04.360 . It's just basically as a proxy for being able to demonstrate that you 00:25:04.360 --> 00:25:08.280 were able to do those things without them having to run like some kind of in 00:25:08.280 --> 00:25:10.610 depth background check to understand it. 00:25:11.139 --> 00:25:14.250 Duke: think about all the different things that you could learn in 00:25:14.250 --> 00:25:16.910 service now in five years, right? 00:25:16.910 --> 00:25:22.463 Like me doing five years of SPM doesn't make me One bit 00:25:22.473 --> 00:25:24.823 better at doing itom board, 00:25:24.968 --> 00:25:25.268 CJ: Right 00:25:25.583 --> 00:25:27.263 Duke: not even a little bit. 00:25:27.476 --> 00:25:31.436 And so everything they say about X years experience, what they mean to 00:25:31.436 --> 00:25:36.296 say is we don't know what questions to ask, to find the credibility 00:25:36.346 --> 00:25:37.646 and we've been burned before. 00:25:37.846 --> 00:25:38.966 That's what it's saying. 00:25:39.656 --> 00:25:43.136 And so having the hard skills is not enough. 00:25:43.216 --> 00:25:47.696 You've got to learn to talk about the things that you can do. 00:25:48.171 --> 00:25:50.781 And here's an example of the right way and the wrong way. 00:25:50.901 --> 00:25:51.731 The wrong way! 00:25:51.895 --> 00:25:54.355 This is how you talk about your ServiceNow skill the wrong way. 00:25:54.471 --> 00:25:58.468 I use, , Business Rules, Client Scripts, UI Policies, Flow Designer, 00:25:58.468 --> 00:26:00.048 Schedule Jobs, What else we got? 00:26:00.181 --> 00:26:01.101 JavaScript. 00:26:01.150 --> 00:26:01.740 What else we got? 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:05.240 UI builder, uh, did I say flow designer? 00:26:05.340 --> 00:26:09.430 Yeah, I use all of those to build solutions as per customer requirement. 00:26:09.638 --> 00:26:09.818 CJ: You 00:26:09.933 --> 00:26:11.833 Duke: Now, Corey, what can I do on service now? 00:26:12.243 --> 00:26:12.923 CJ: No idea. 00:26:12.923 --> 00:26:16.688 Yeah. 00:26:17.083 --> 00:26:20.683 Duke: But if I say, hey, listen, I replaced Salesforce. 00:26:20.785 --> 00:26:25.825 At a global contact center, and we made it much simpler so that the training 00:26:25.825 --> 00:26:28.015 time went from 3 months to 3 days. 00:26:28.305 --> 00:26:32.595 And we also racked up like, 100, 000 dollars a year savings on 00:26:32.605 --> 00:26:37.075 licenses and we prototyped it in a day and deployed it in 3 weeks. 00:26:37.930 --> 00:26:39.200 Now, what can I do on service? 00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:39.939 Now, 00:26:41.005 --> 00:26:43.675 CJ: Yeah, now I know exactly what you can do, right? 00:26:43.780 --> 00:26:44.420 Duke: exactly. 00:26:44.430 --> 00:26:48.843 Now, maybe you don't get a whiz bang dragon slay like that, but you can 00:26:48.843 --> 00:26:52.000 still, attach the thing to its outcomes. 00:26:52.455 --> 00:26:52.815 CJ: Yeah. 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:55.440 Duke: How many times have we said that we should, I bet you outcomes is 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:59.110 the most common word if we count all the words we've said on this podcast 00:26:59.455 --> 00:27:01.005 CJ: Followed closely by value. 00:27:01.950 --> 00:27:02.240 Duke: Yeah, 00:27:02.925 --> 00:27:06.431 CJ: Well, but it's true though, Duke, and I think it's because, Folks who who 00:27:06.431 --> 00:27:12.045 are in the ServiceNow ecosystem probably identify as techie in some way, And 00:27:12.045 --> 00:27:13.935 techie folks love technology, right? 00:27:13.945 --> 00:27:14.705 Like a lot of us. 00:27:15.375 --> 00:27:17.265 Oh, yeah, maybe a little bit, you know, and, 00:27:17.410 --> 00:27:20.480 Duke: No, I mean, they clearly love technology, but do you, do you, do you 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:23.130 think the majority of the newcomers to the ServiceNow space would tell, 00:27:23.140 --> 00:27:25.210 would label themselves as techie? 00:27:25.435 --> 00:27:26.855 CJ: yeah, no, that's a good question. 00:27:27.110 --> 00:27:28.150 Duke: I think it's a coin toss. 00:27:28.150 --> 00:27:32.790 Now, I think five years ago, probably, but I think with NextGen and RiseUp 00:27:32.790 --> 00:27:34.480 and , the programs with the armed forces. 00:27:34.695 --> 00:27:35.615 I, I don't think. 00:27:36.225 --> 00:27:38.085 The majority are thinking that they're technical. 00:27:39.549 --> 00:27:40.370 CJ: Well, you know what? 00:27:40.370 --> 00:27:42.505 that's a leg up, Than on the rest of us. 00:27:42.895 --> 00:27:43.135 Right? 00:27:43.135 --> 00:27:45.330 Who do, , consider ourselves, , techie, right? 00:27:45.330 --> 00:27:50.330 And I'll tell you why is that when you approach ServiceNow from a 00:27:50.360 --> 00:27:55.333 techie perspective, you elevate the code, you elevate, platform, 00:27:55.333 --> 00:27:56.683 you elevate the tinkering. 00:27:56.853 --> 00:28:02.043 And you think less of, or don't focus enough on often, , the outcomes and 00:28:02.043 --> 00:28:07.243 delivering value for the business in a way that they can use to make 00:28:07.413 --> 00:28:11.753 money or reduce costs, that's what ServiceNow is for ultimately, right? 00:28:11.763 --> 00:28:14.343 To make money for the business or reduce costs for the business. 00:28:14.633 --> 00:28:17.906 And if you're coming into the ecosystem and you're not thinking that this is 00:28:17.906 --> 00:28:22.451 a tinker toy, then maybe you should come into ServiceNow world Thinking 00:28:22.451 --> 00:28:27.511 that this is a, a tool for businesses to make money or reduce costs. 00:28:27.731 --> 00:28:27.971 Right. 00:28:27.971 --> 00:28:32.381 And if you can internalize that, then you're already a leg ahead of a lot of 00:28:32.381 --> 00:28:37.461 folks who are advertising themselves as people who know flow designer, business 00:28:37.461 --> 00:28:41.481 rules, client scripts, UI builder, you know, workspace, et cetera, right? 00:28:41.491 --> 00:28:44.901 Like, you know, and given that bulleted list of the things that they know. 00:28:45.106 --> 00:28:47.966 Versus someone comes in and gives that other spill that you did, ? Duke, 00:28:47.996 --> 00:28:52.686 where you talk about , how you took this thing and did this thing and save 00:28:52.686 --> 00:28:56.416 this amount and you did it in this amount of time, , those sorts of words 00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:00.173 that, folks are looking to hear because ultimately service now is a two, two. 00:29:00.723 --> 00:29:04.636 Make money for businesses or save money for businesses that makes sense. 00:29:04.636 --> 00:29:06.076 I'm on my way off base 00:29:06.306 --> 00:29:10.016 Duke: I mean, it's really the, core essence of it. 00:29:10.346 --> 00:29:13.473 Like, when I do my, coaching cohorts, the first couple 00:29:13.493 --> 00:29:16.083 episodes, isn't jump into the tech. 00:29:16.113 --> 00:29:17.923 It's, why are we here? 00:29:18.583 --> 00:29:20.073 CJ: Right, right. 00:29:20.243 --> 00:29:23.913 Duke: how did this service now thing go from, you know, nothing 00:29:24.193 --> 00:29:26.693 to the size that it is today. 00:29:26.980 --> 00:29:27.460 CJ: Yeah, 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.740 Duke: And it's because it solves a certain class of problems. 00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:33.800 So we better be really clear about what that class of problems is because , we're 00:29:33.800 --> 00:29:35.550 not using this to make angry birds. 00:29:36.820 --> 00:29:36.950 You 00:29:37.080 --> 00:29:39.110 CJ: I'm sure somebody could at this point 00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:40.830 Duke: exactly. 00:29:40.866 --> 00:29:42.370 but would you want to right? 00:29:42.600 --> 00:29:43.160 CJ: Right 00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:45.930 Duke: and I don't, I, I know there's some tension there because I always tell 00:29:45.930 --> 00:29:50.400 people, hey, look back over your past life or your hobbies or your crafts or 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.440 whatever in order to find motivation. 00:29:52.673 --> 00:29:54.363 Of what to build, right? 00:29:54.373 --> 00:29:58.490 To crank up your skill, and not a lot of those apps would get put on a service. 00:29:58.490 --> 00:29:59.640 Now, it wouldn't be worth it. 00:29:59.730 --> 00:30:00.170 Right? 00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:00.930 CJ: Right, 00:30:01.050 --> 00:30:04.640 Duke: But it showcases the class of problem that you can solve. 00:30:04.650 --> 00:30:05.610 We talk about it all the time. 00:30:05.620 --> 00:30:06.310 My soaping app. 00:30:06.310 --> 00:30:06.600 Right? 00:30:07.300 --> 00:30:10.243 So I make soap and you know, there's always a risk that you 00:30:10.243 --> 00:30:14.283 can waste your ingredients when you're making a batch, right? 00:30:14.283 --> 00:30:17.533 If I pour too much, I, I screw up the ratio of the batch. 00:30:17.563 --> 00:30:18.293 Everything's a waste. 00:30:19.213 --> 00:30:19.603 CJ: Yeah 00:30:19.768 --> 00:30:21.798 Duke: and also like, how much of it do I have left? 00:30:21.798 --> 00:30:25.028 So if I'm planning a batch, I want to know if I have enough of everything 00:30:25.248 --> 00:30:26.828 before I pour it out of the bottles. 00:30:27.278 --> 00:30:32.095 So I use ServiceNow to control my raw inventory, quantities and consumption. 00:30:32.228 --> 00:30:34.918 And it helps me make better supply chain decisions. 00:30:35.108 --> 00:30:38.078 I didn't do it because some company out there, some is going to put the 00:30:38.078 --> 00:30:39.658 soaping production app on their instance. 00:30:39.748 --> 00:30:40.878 No, of course they're not. 00:30:41.118 --> 00:30:45.148 But they might need something that, monitors and manages raw materials 00:30:45.396 --> 00:30:45.856 CJ: yeah, 00:30:46.191 --> 00:30:47.911 Duke: cough loaner laptops cough. 00:30:47.911 --> 00:30:51.931 Yeah, 00:30:51.956 --> 00:30:54.276 CJ: and, and all of that stuff is, is very similar. 00:30:54.276 --> 00:30:56.166 Sometimes you're just switching out the unit, right? 00:30:56.176 --> 00:30:58.046 Like the unit of the thing, right? 00:30:58.056 --> 00:31:02.166 Is it a, , whatever the ingredients are that go into soap, or is it a 00:31:02.186 --> 00:31:07.246 mouse and a keyboard and a printer and USB cables or what have you, right? 00:31:07.246 --> 00:31:09.236 At the end of the day, it's all the same stuff. 00:31:09.941 --> 00:31:10.471 Right? 00:31:10.701 --> 00:31:15.301 It's all tables and forms and so on processes and so on and so forth. 00:31:15.301 --> 00:31:15.551 Right? 00:31:15.611 --> 00:31:19.081 Duke: I, I think for this year's cohort for this is me pushing my limit 00:31:19.231 --> 00:31:23.041 for when I do my, my next coaching cohort this year on top of making 00:31:23.041 --> 00:31:24.421 people pick their own capstone. 00:31:25.001 --> 00:31:28.061 I think I'm just going to have a suite of capstones that people can do. 00:31:28.636 --> 00:31:33.324 Because I think people should just have a library of problems that they have solved. 00:31:33.324 --> 00:31:33.677 So, 00:31:33.988 --> 00:31:34.508 CJ: Right. 00:31:34.737 --> 00:31:40.743 Duke: do in my cohort, the soaping inventory 1, but Holly 00:31:40.743 --> 00:31:42.433 writer, she just did that. 00:31:42.441 --> 00:31:46.581 used car lot process where they take everything from the acquisition of 00:31:46.581 --> 00:31:51.201 vehicles to the repair and detailing and cleaning so that the sales people 00:31:51.201 --> 00:31:53.031 can see what cars are ready to sell. 00:31:53.221 --> 00:31:56.221 And then actually the cell records go in service now, and you can 00:31:56.221 --> 00:31:57.951 see which cars are in contention. 00:31:58.191 --> 00:32:01.921 And then it's got all the financials so they can see, like, how much margin 00:32:01.921 --> 00:32:05.425 each rep is making and what cars are best at selling or And so I'm like, 00:32:05.795 --> 00:32:07.735 that's a great thing to model out. 00:32:07.903 --> 00:32:11.223 When you're talking about acquisition management, and then when you're talking 00:32:11.223 --> 00:32:14.963 about managing the performance of a sales team, that's a great problem to solve some 00:32:14.963 --> 00:32:19.213 other, you know, I got another person , he worked in medical, claims processing. 00:32:19.336 --> 00:32:22.556 And so it was kind of like processing the claim, like the person says, I use 00:32:22.556 --> 00:32:26.906 these treatment codes, and I'm therefore asking for this amount of money. 00:32:26.906 --> 00:32:29.226 Well, do we need certain pieces of evidence for that? 00:32:29.496 --> 00:32:33.533 And, what actual money we're going to give them and when we tell them how much money 00:32:33.533 --> 00:32:35.233 actually, like, do they have responses? 00:32:35.603 --> 00:32:37.023 Is there a reconciliation for that? 00:32:37.183 --> 00:32:41.153 Like, there's all kinds of these problems that if you just keep building 00:32:41.163 --> 00:32:44.713 those out, you just get a feel for the, yeah, like, what am I trying to say? 00:32:44.713 --> 00:32:45.123 Corey? 00:32:45.443 --> 00:32:50.503 like, who cares how a planer works until you actually have to even out wood 00:32:50.800 --> 00:32:51.150 CJ: yeah, 00:32:51.230 --> 00:32:54.300 Duke: you have to have to shave exactly a millimeter off of a piece of wood. 00:32:54.310 --> 00:32:56.870 Then and only then is the planer going to make sense. 00:32:57.263 --> 00:33:00.400 CJ: you've got to do to think, I mean, at the end of the day, like, you don't 00:33:00.430 --> 00:33:05.420 understand how it all works until you actually use the thing to make it work. 00:33:05.770 --> 00:33:06.020 Right. 00:33:06.020 --> 00:33:08.320 Like, you don't understand how flow designer works until 00:33:08.320 --> 00:33:09.460 you actually build flows. 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:12.940 , you don't understand how, email works until you send one. 00:33:12.950 --> 00:33:15.110 Try to explain, like, email to someone who's never sent one. 00:33:15.110 --> 00:33:18.730 Well, I'm going to write this thing into like a screen and 00:33:18.750 --> 00:33:20.030 then send it to somebody. 00:33:20.250 --> 00:33:20.430 Right? 00:33:20.430 --> 00:33:21.420 Like, you like, huh? 00:33:21.460 --> 00:33:21.670 Like, 00:33:21.730 --> 00:33:22.800 Duke: Send it to somebody. 00:33:23.270 --> 00:33:23.650 CJ: right? 00:33:23.650 --> 00:33:25.600 How, how do you get it to them? 00:33:25.850 --> 00:33:26.090 Right? 00:33:26.090 --> 00:33:27.670 You know? 00:33:27.670 --> 00:33:32.730 And so ultimately, There is no substitute for actually doing the thing , you 00:33:32.730 --> 00:33:35.743 can read all the articles you want to all the wikis, all the docs. 00:33:36.026 --> 00:33:38.106 But if you do all of that without. 00:33:38.371 --> 00:33:42.911 Getting the PDI right and banging on the instance and probably getting to 00:33:42.911 --> 00:33:47.021 the point where you need to reset that thing a couple of times, if you are 00:33:47.021 --> 00:33:50.761 doing all of this without getting to that point, you're probably leaving 00:33:50.901 --> 00:33:53.071 a lot of understanding on the table. 00:33:53.321 --> 00:33:53.681 Right. 00:33:53.711 --> 00:33:55.061 And notice, I didn't say knowledge. 00:33:55.091 --> 00:33:57.648 I said, understanding, Because that's the key. 00:33:57.778 --> 00:33:58.488 That's what you want. 00:33:58.498 --> 00:34:02.158 You want to be able to , understand the process and the platform. 00:34:02.418 --> 00:34:02.638 Right. 00:34:02.638 --> 00:34:04.028 And you can't do that without doing it. 00:34:04.271 --> 00:34:04.591 Duke: Yeah. 00:34:04.591 --> 00:34:05.021 You know what? 00:34:05.021 --> 00:34:08.701 I'm having a massive aha moment here because in my first three coaching cohorts 00:34:08.711 --> 00:34:12.675 from last year, it's a, it's one thing to be lectured at by somebody who's been 00:34:12.675 --> 00:34:14.255 there, done that a hundred hundred times. 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:19.410 . And so I put a lot of time and effort into building some exercises, right? 00:34:19.460 --> 00:34:20.760 You don't get the instructions. 00:34:20.770 --> 00:34:23.480 You get told what you need to produce 00:34:23.765 --> 00:34:24.435 CJ: Right. 00:34:25.130 --> 00:34:26.920 Duke: and that puts one tool in context. 00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.963 But for next year, it's going to be a lot more like solutions, 00:34:30.093 --> 00:34:31.173 like full on app builds 00:34:31.435 --> 00:34:31.895 CJ: Okay. 00:34:32.038 --> 00:34:32.986 Duke: I'm putting this out there. 00:34:32.986 --> 00:34:35.676 This is me pushing it to my limit next year. 00:34:35.790 --> 00:34:37.910 , my coaching program is going to be. 00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:40.530 The best thing money can buy or bust. 00:34:41.941 --> 00:34:45.251 CJ: Duke, like, if anybody can do it, you can, the knowledge that you have around 00:34:45.251 --> 00:34:48.881 this and a dedication that I've already seen you put into this, , if there's 00:34:48.931 --> 00:34:53.751 anyone who can deliver on that promise, like I have full confidence that it's you 00:34:54.038 --> 00:34:56.478 Duke: So if anybody wants to be an advisor for that effort, , . And 00:34:56.478 --> 00:34:59.208 if anybody's interested in actually being a part of that mentorship 00:34:59.228 --> 00:35:00.648 program, , please reach out. 00:35:00.718 --> 00:35:01.918 I don't have any of the details yet. 00:35:01.938 --> 00:35:03.358 All I know is that it's going to get done. 00:35:03.368 --> 00:35:04.288 This is my mission for 20. 00:35:05.338 --> 00:35:06.448 This is me pushing it to my level. 00:35:07.268 --> 00:35:08.398 CJ: push it to the limit, baby. 00:35:09.783 --> 00:35:09.883 All 00:35:09.898 --> 00:35:10.598 Duke: What about you, Corey? 00:35:10.598 --> 00:35:11.178 What do you got up this 00:35:11.233 --> 00:35:11.743 CJ: man. 00:35:11.743 --> 00:35:12.933 I know you're gonna put me on the spot. 00:35:12.933 --> 00:35:15.453 I knew you were gonna put me on the spot, right? 00:35:15.463 --> 00:35:18.723 Like, uh, you know, you don't put yourself on the spot and you're like, yeah, no, 00:35:18.723 --> 00:35:20.463 I'm not going out here on this limb alone. 00:35:20.463 --> 00:35:20.903 I knew it. 00:35:20.943 --> 00:35:21.313 I knew it. 00:35:21.313 --> 00:35:22.043 I knew it was coming. 00:35:22.188 --> 00:35:23.808 How I'd like to push it to the limit. 00:35:24.178 --> 00:35:29.851 It's, yeah, Looking at the consulting that I do differently, what I think the 00:35:29.851 --> 00:35:35.558 market is missing, And what I know that I bring to the table, , is really helping 00:35:35.558 --> 00:35:37.478 folks get the most out of service now. 00:35:37.938 --> 00:35:41.288 what I know natively is that when I show up at a client, , I'm giving 00:35:41.288 --> 00:35:45.198 them the ability to have someone who understands both the technology 00:35:45.508 --> 00:35:47.638 and how their business works. 00:35:47.638 --> 00:35:52.358 And being able to merge the two so that they get the best out of service 00:35:52.368 --> 00:35:53.798 now to drive that business, right? 00:35:53.798 --> 00:35:57.308 Whatever that business outcome is, like, whatever that synergy 00:35:57.308 --> 00:36:01.068 is, , I'm the person who can come in there and I can talk to whatever. 00:36:01.243 --> 00:36:04.753 , department head , or C level if necessary, whoever, right? 00:36:04.773 --> 00:36:05.273 Understand. 00:36:05.273 --> 00:36:05.513 Okay. 00:36:05.513 --> 00:36:07.493 So why did you actually buy service now? 00:36:08.003 --> 00:36:08.293 Right? 00:36:08.293 --> 00:36:10.203 Like, what are you actually trying to do with this thing? 00:36:10.363 --> 00:36:13.043 I'll tell you what, there are a lot of people who can't even answer 00:36:13.043 --> 00:36:15.233 that question, why did you buy it? 00:36:15.233 --> 00:36:17.043 And what is this thing supposed to be doing for you? 00:36:17.163 --> 00:36:20.343 But that's the 1st question that you actually need the answer, right? 00:36:20.343 --> 00:36:21.833 Because when you get to a point, yeah. 00:36:22.070 --> 00:36:24.120 Well, you've got this platform out here, right? 00:36:24.170 --> 00:36:27.180 You're doing things with it and you're paying for it, you want to make sure 00:36:27.180 --> 00:36:30.050 that is aligned with the, with the mission of the business, whatever the mission 00:36:30.050 --> 00:36:33.960 of the business, this often the mission of the business is profit plus, right? 00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:36.460 Like it's going to be, we need to make money and we are also, and 00:36:36.460 --> 00:36:37.930 we're making money in this way. 00:36:37.950 --> 00:36:38.270 Okay. 00:36:38.270 --> 00:36:40.030 So how can service now help you do that? 00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:41.290 We don't know. 00:36:41.420 --> 00:36:41.680 Right. 00:36:41.680 --> 00:36:43.400 Nobody knows most of the time, right? 00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.210 Like they've got here and they, and you know, and things happen. 00:36:46.230 --> 00:36:49.030 . So I like what I'm really good at is making the business be more 00:36:49.030 --> 00:36:50.460 intentional about how to use service. 00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:53.310 Now, quote that, uh, so 00:36:54.205 --> 00:36:55.475 Duke: Alright folks, there you have it. 00:36:55.505 --> 00:36:56.645 That's episode 100. 00:36:56.725 --> 00:37:00.285 You guys, and I just thought just a quick note. 00:37:00.315 --> 00:37:01.685 Thank you guys so much. 00:37:02.205 --> 00:37:04.715 There'd be no business getting to episode 100. 00:37:04.805 --> 00:37:07.395 We wouldn't even made it to episode 50 if we hadn't had 00:37:07.395 --> 00:37:09.565 people watching but be telling us. 00:37:09.723 --> 00:37:11.723 that, the thing is making an impact on their lives. 00:37:12.223 --> 00:37:13.653 Thank you so much for listening. 00:37:13.673 --> 00:37:17.283 Thank you for all the likes and comments and shares, and hopefully 00:37:17.283 --> 00:37:19.343 the next 100 are even better. 00:37:19.343 --> 00:37:20.263 Thanks so much folks. 00:37:20.433 --> 00:37:21.473 CJ: thanks everyone again. 00:37:21.473 --> 00:37:21.653 Right. 00:37:21.653 --> 00:37:22.683 I just want to echo Duke. 00:37:22.683 --> 00:37:26.933 I normally let him do the sign off, but this is episode number 100 and. 00:37:26.971 --> 00:37:30.931 there has just been so much that this podcast has given me 00:37:30.931 --> 00:37:32.491 over the last several years. 00:37:32.511 --> 00:37:37.261 And really, I wouldn't be here in this space if not for you Duke. 00:37:37.261 --> 00:37:38.891 So I just want to say, I appreciate that. 00:37:39.051 --> 00:37:42.021 But also all of, all of our listeners out there and everyone 00:37:42.231 --> 00:37:46.351 who I've ever bumped into and told me, Hey man, I love the podcast. 00:37:46.731 --> 00:37:47.451 Thank you so much. 00:37:47.451 --> 00:37:48.041 I appreciate it. 00:37:48.041 --> 00:37:49.751 You have no idea how much that means to me. 00:37:50.466 --> 00:37:51.076 Duke: Thanks folks. 00:37:51.126 --> 00:37:51.926 See you on the next one. 00:37:52.118 --> 00:37:52.598 CJ: Bye bye.