WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:09.450 Dave Hoekstra: Welcome to Working Smarter, presented by Calabrio where 00:00:09.450 --> 00:00:12.840 we discuss contact center industry trends and best practices, as well 00:00:12.840 --> 00:00:15.810 as sharing success stories and pain points with some of the most innovative 00:00:15.815 --> 00:00:17.220 professionals in the industry. 00:00:17.730 --> 00:00:20.490 We are glad you're joining us to learn and grow together in order to 00:00:20.490 --> 00:00:24.150 provide world-class customer service to each and every one of our clients. 00:00:24.360 --> 00:00:27.600 My name is Dave Hoekstra, a product evangelist for Calabrio, and my 00:00:27.605 --> 00:00:29.730 guest today is the esteemed Trent. 00:00:29.750 --> 00:00:36.980 Ryan, the finalist for S W P, workforce Management Professional of the year, 00:00:37.220 --> 00:00:43.255 but more importantly, Trent is the manager of W F M Technology at Netflix. 00:00:43.255 --> 00:00:44.805 Hoekstra you've heard of this company. 00:00:44.835 --> 00:00:48.550 Maybe that's something a company that you might have run across on a day-to-day. 00:00:49.029 --> 00:00:54.239 But we are super excited to have Trent as part of our overall podcast series 00:00:54.260 --> 00:00:56.175 here, and it's great to have you, Trent. 00:00:56.180 --> 00:01:00.290 So instead of just Instead of meandering on for another 00:01:00.290 --> 00:01:02.190 hour, let's get right into it. 00:01:02.190 --> 00:01:05.340 First of all, how are things, how was the nomination? 00:01:05.340 --> 00:01:08.690 How was that process go for you and what did it mean to you? 00:01:09.390 --> 00:01:11.500 Trent Ryan: Yeah, it meant a lot to me. 00:01:11.500 --> 00:01:13.860 I've grew up in the contact center, right? 00:01:13.865 --> 00:01:16.950 And so to be recognized for that work was really great. 00:01:16.950 --> 00:01:20.699 It's been my entire professional career and it was my first time attending 00:01:20.699 --> 00:01:25.080 the S w PPP event, which was just an absolutely fantastic event to 00:01:25.080 --> 00:01:29.460 meet people, connect with people and share stories and best practices with 00:01:29.465 --> 00:01:29.690 Dave Hoekstra: folks. 00:01:30.270 --> 00:01:36.040 Yeah, it's not often you get to sit down with 450 other W f m nerds and every 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:41.280 single person you talk to like understands what we do for a living and why we do it. 00:01:41.285 --> 00:01:42.940 And so it's pretty great. 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:45.180 So I wanna start there. 00:01:45.180 --> 00:01:47.370 You said you grew up in the context center industry. 00:01:47.375 --> 00:01:48.250 So let's go back. 00:01:48.250 --> 00:01:51.720 How did Trent Ryan find himself on this 00:01:51.720 --> 00:01:52.110 Trent Ryan: path? 00:01:52.845 --> 00:01:53.805 Yeah, absolutely. 00:01:53.805 --> 00:01:59.395 My first job actually was selling computers in high school at a little 00:01:59.415 --> 00:02:00.555 company called Best Buy Uhhuh. 00:02:01.155 --> 00:02:05.535 And then I took a job a few years out of college at a entry level 00:02:05.535 --> 00:02:09.864 call center job in Minneapolis where Calabrio is headquartered. 00:02:09.864 --> 00:02:11.035 I don't know how everyone up there does it. 00:02:11.115 --> 00:02:14.875 I determined that to be too cold, so I did two years in the Best Buy contact center. 00:02:15.570 --> 00:02:19.799 And then at the time Netflix had just opened up an office in Salt Lake City, 00:02:19.829 --> 00:02:24.390 and so I made the move to Netflix and I've been there ever since. 00:02:25.260 --> 00:02:29.250 So I grew up not only with in the contact center, but really in the 00:02:29.250 --> 00:02:33.190 contact center with Netflix specifically, which is really special as well. 00:02:33.730 --> 00:02:34.190 So were 00:02:34.190 --> 00:02:37.170 Dave Hoekstra: you initially, I don't wanna say just, but just 00:02:37.170 --> 00:02:39.989 a, like a customer service agent. 00:02:40.665 --> 00:02:41.265 Trent Ryan: Absolutely. 00:02:41.265 --> 00:02:47.515 So I was doing technical support over the phone for Geek Squad at the time Uhhuh. 00:02:47.515 --> 00:02:50.655 And you would call in, have issues with your computer and I would be the 00:02:50.655 --> 00:02:54.615 person you spoke with on the phone trying to connect to it remotely. 00:02:54.620 --> 00:02:58.325 Some really interesting call recordings that are hopefully long gone of, walking 00:02:58.325 --> 00:03:03.380 through folks getting connected to, remote access systems and, That long ago. 00:03:03.380 --> 00:03:06.799 It was not a very simpler process back then, so I'm sure it's 00:03:06.799 --> 00:03:07.940 come a long way since then. 00:03:08.460 --> 00:03:09.660 In some ways it has, 00:03:10.190 --> 00:03:12.230 Dave Hoekstra: We still need tech support people for that. 00:03:12.230 --> 00:03:13.339 So There you go. 00:03:13.739 --> 00:03:19.310 Okay, so when you got to Netflix how did we, did you start in the workforce 00:03:19.315 --> 00:03:22.280 management process or was it you were on the phones and you worked your way 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:22.760 Trent Ryan: into that? 00:03:23.239 --> 00:03:24.990 No, so I started in workforce management. 00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:28.350 I think I was workforce management employee number four or five. 00:03:28.409 --> 00:03:33.345 In Netflix, very early days, and I got incredibly lucky. 00:03:33.345 --> 00:03:37.365 My first week on the job was when we were actually standing up our original 00:03:37.365 --> 00:03:39.140 workforce management software vendor. 00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:42.585 And so that's really where I got my start on the system side of things, 00:03:42.585 --> 00:03:46.755 is I was able to just take all of that in and learn the ins and outs 00:03:46.755 --> 00:03:50.355 of how everything was configured, how this map to this, and then over the 00:03:50.355 --> 00:03:52.425 last, eight years have really just. 00:03:52.950 --> 00:03:56.620 Been able to take that one little more so of knowledge and grow with 00:03:56.620 --> 00:04:01.470 it, leaning on peers and industry best practices to get to where I am today. 00:04:01.980 --> 00:04:05.190 Dave Hoekstra: And how have you seen the workforce management program 00:04:05.190 --> 00:04:07.140 at Netflix grow over the years? 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.620 What are some of the key initiatives that maybe you guys have tackled over 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:14.310 the years that have really Im improved your process and your efficiency. 00:04:14.954 --> 00:04:16.235 Trent Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. 00:04:16.235 --> 00:04:20.654 I think the big one just from, Netflix is when I started, we were 00:04:20.654 --> 00:04:25.455 in the US Canada, in, in a real small handful of countries, right? 00:04:26.085 --> 00:04:32.925 It was predominantly supported by, very simple folks in regions with 00:04:32.925 --> 00:04:34.575 very simple, scheduling rules. 00:04:34.635 --> 00:04:39.615 And as we've expanded we've had to really understand not only, how do we schedule 00:04:39.615 --> 00:04:43.730 in the US but how do we schedule in Europe and the complexity of the labor laws. 00:04:44.130 --> 00:04:45.735 Have just expanded dramatically. 00:04:45.735 --> 00:04:50.085 So we've really had to get folks with local knowledge to be successful and 00:04:50.125 --> 00:04:54.625 implementing, best practices that apply not just to Netflix, but to, that 00:04:54.625 --> 00:04:56.295 specific country that we're targeting. 00:04:56.985 --> 00:05:00.855 Dave Hoekstra: Now was this pre streaming or post streaming or during 00:05:00.855 --> 00:05:01.945 the implementation of streaming? 00:05:02.685 --> 00:05:03.045 This 00:05:03.045 --> 00:05:07.655 Trent Ryan: was pre post streaming, but just post streaming. 00:05:07.655 --> 00:05:09.285 So it had been around for a while. 00:05:09.705 --> 00:05:13.335 But we had, all of the customer service was streaming only. 00:05:13.505 --> 00:05:18.594 At the time the kind of legacy DVD business was a separate, 00:05:18.614 --> 00:05:20.174 much smaller organization. 00:05:20.985 --> 00:05:21.405 Dave Hoekstra: Okay. 00:05:21.885 --> 00:05:28.095 So yeah, my mom just recently found out that the D v D side of the business is is 00:05:29.015 --> 00:05:31.215 closing down, and she's a little bummed. 00:05:31.215 --> 00:05:37.245 She was still super into receiving, the six DVDs of Anne, of Green 00:05:37.245 --> 00:05:40.425 Gables and and working towards that. 00:05:40.895 --> 00:05:42.005 Completing that task. 00:05:42.085 --> 00:05:43.475 But it's okay. 00:05:43.515 --> 00:05:46.715 We now have better options for how to do that anymore. 00:05:46.715 --> 00:05:49.985 And it's fantastic to see the overall growth of just Netflix 00:05:49.985 --> 00:05:55.925 as a, I mean as the example of, what a modern company should be. 00:05:55.925 --> 00:05:57.335 And it's great to see it. 00:05:57.340 --> 00:05:59.755 That includes the workforce management process. 00:06:00.775 --> 00:06:07.905 What I would do is I would ask you, let's pretend we just met and I'd, and 00:06:07.905 --> 00:06:12.255 I really want to understand Netflix's kind of contact center setup, right? 00:06:12.255 --> 00:06:17.114 So what kind of channels what kind of work do you go through, right? 00:06:17.145 --> 00:06:18.705 What kind of volumes do you expect? 00:06:18.705 --> 00:06:19.844 Do you work with partners? 00:06:19.844 --> 00:06:20.505 Things like that. 00:06:21.195 --> 00:06:25.635 Give me the, two minute overview of how Netflix is set up. 00:06:26.414 --> 00:06:27.385 Trent Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. 00:06:27.385 --> 00:06:31.755 The conversation I always have first with folks when they think of Netflix is they 00:06:31.755 --> 00:06:33.744 go, wow, you have a customer service team. 00:06:33.994 --> 00:06:35.335 Folks don't actually know that. 00:06:35.335 --> 00:06:38.594 And I think that speaks to the product, right? 00:06:38.594 --> 00:06:42.164 Generally speaking, folks don't have issues with the product, but our 00:06:42.164 --> 00:06:45.555 channel offerings are dictated by, Hey, if I'm having an issue, it's 00:06:45.715 --> 00:06:47.295 probably when I'm trying to watch tv. 00:06:48.055 --> 00:06:53.355 And so we've leaned into, really real time forms of support, so 00:06:53.355 --> 00:06:55.535 that's predominantly voice and chat. 00:06:56.635 --> 00:07:02.325 And that was very intentional because, folks don't want to be, going back and 00:07:02.325 --> 00:07:05.865 forth over email, weeks at a time for support when it comes to their streaming. 00:07:05.870 --> 00:07:09.385 They just wanna sit down and watch tv. 00:07:09.405 --> 00:07:12.555 One of the changes we did make though, is when I joined the 00:07:12.555 --> 00:07:15.275 entire workforce management team was based in Salt Lake City. 00:07:15.275 --> 00:07:16.784 It was a very small team. 00:07:16.995 --> 00:07:18.994 We could just swivel, pivot. 00:07:19.344 --> 00:07:21.300 Change things, roll it out very quick. 00:07:21.630 --> 00:07:24.180 But as we've grown, we've had to expand in different markets. 00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:28.800 So now the team is, there's a team in the us, a team in Latin America, a team in 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:31.770 emea, as well as a team in APAC as well. 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.530 All part of the same global workforce management function. 00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:38.610 But what's been something we've really had to be very intentional 00:07:38.610 --> 00:07:43.530 about is deciding what things as an organization, do we want to be globally 00:07:43.530 --> 00:07:47.219 aligned, and where do we want to have regional differences in terms of best 00:07:47.219 --> 00:07:52.170 practices and working with partners or working, procedures, processes, 00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:53.671 and just ensuring that's really. 00:07:54.225 --> 00:07:58.125 Clearly laid out, and the expectations are set very clearly because we're not just 00:07:58.125 --> 00:08:02.175 in one office building anymore where we can, turn around and talk to the entire 00:08:02.175 --> 00:08:05.925 team, change something on a Tuesday and have it implemented by a Thursday. 00:08:07.265 --> 00:08:11.825 Dave Hoekstra: So you already mentioned, local labor laws and schedules. 00:08:11.965 --> 00:08:14.785 Obviously there's languages across there. 00:08:14.955 --> 00:08:20.955 Are there any other examples of kind of unique challenges that different areas? 00:08:21.915 --> 00:08:22.305 We have a. 00:08:22.555 --> 00:08:26.245 We have a strongly, predominantly North American audience here, but 00:08:26.375 --> 00:08:30.085 what are some of those unique things that say a Brazilian Netflix has 00:08:30.085 --> 00:08:32.635 to deal with, or somebody in emea. 00:08:33.375 --> 00:08:33.734 Trent Ryan: Yeah. 00:08:33.765 --> 00:08:36.104 So two things come to mind with that. 00:08:36.104 --> 00:08:38.684 One is the forecast, right? 00:08:38.684 --> 00:08:41.684 So content varies so dramatically by region. 00:08:41.895 --> 00:08:45.194 We may have a show that's hugely popular in the US that drives 00:08:45.194 --> 00:08:49.785 contact volume that's not popular in another region, or vice versa, right? 00:08:49.785 --> 00:08:54.015 So the contact volume forecast being very, hyper local and what goes 00:08:54.020 --> 00:08:56.025 into that is, is one piece of it. 00:08:56.204 --> 00:08:56.895 So let me pause 00:08:56.895 --> 00:08:57.194 Dave Hoekstra: other piece. 00:08:57.194 --> 00:08:58.604 Let me, yeah, let me pause before you. 00:08:58.604 --> 00:09:01.264 So take a show like Squid Game. 00:09:02.004 --> 00:09:07.635 That is probably insanely popular in, Korea, but also 00:09:07.635 --> 00:09:09.435 then becomes popular in the us. 00:09:09.435 --> 00:09:15.375 Is that, did you guys have a, a unique and when we say a show becomes 00:09:15.375 --> 00:09:20.055 popular what types of is it just my sis my streaming's not working? 00:09:20.055 --> 00:09:22.995 Is it, you're probably not getting questions like, Hey, 00:09:22.995 --> 00:09:24.194 what's this actor's name? 00:09:24.194 --> 00:09:24.984 Or things like that. 00:09:24.984 --> 00:09:28.814 But, what are, is that the type of interaction that you 00:09:28.814 --> 00:09:30.584 get from those situations? 00:09:31.710 --> 00:09:32.070 Trent Ryan: Yeah. 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:36.360 So anytime that there's a particularly popular show, right? 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:40.590 We see a slight increase in contact volume is associated. 00:09:40.770 --> 00:09:42.480 It's not massive, right? 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:48.330 But it does, tho you know, maybe, there's an issue with, a particular subtitle 00:09:48.330 --> 00:09:49.360 or something on a piece of content. 00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:54.150 That sort of thing will pop up and get to the right folks to get fixed. 00:09:54.690 --> 00:09:55.170 Okay. 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:56.180 Dave Hoekstra: And all right. 00:09:56.180 --> 00:09:58.620 You said that was point number one. 00:09:59.100 --> 00:10:05.500 I, one more follow up on that one is how closely do you work with the content 00:10:06.510 --> 00:10:12.300 part of the, of your organization to when you find out there's a show that's 00:10:12.300 --> 00:10:16.710 going to be particularly popular or not, how does that influence your forecast? 00:10:17.625 --> 00:10:19.455 Trent Ryan: That's one of the things we have in our 00:10:19.455 --> 00:10:21.145 contact volume forecast, right? 00:10:21.145 --> 00:10:24.735 Is what the sort of forecasted popularity of a show is that 00:10:24.735 --> 00:10:27.855 drives the contact volume forecast that we ultimately staff to. 00:10:28.065 --> 00:10:31.895 It's one of many factors that we look in, in the forecast, but it 00:10:32.454 --> 00:10:36.125 is one of the pieces of the contact volume forecast and what is the one 00:10:36.405 --> 00:10:37.395 Dave Hoekstra: show that comes to mind? 00:10:37.395 --> 00:10:39.275 That's an, that's a good example of that. 00:10:40.605 --> 00:10:43.350 Trent Ryan: I'll say it used to be much more impactful. 00:10:43.350 --> 00:10:43.550 Okay. 00:10:43.580 --> 00:10:45.750 So when I joined Netflix, right? 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:49.080 There was, at the time I was joining in the House of Cards era. 00:10:49.220 --> 00:10:49.640 Okay. 00:10:50.130 --> 00:10:51.420 House of Cards came out. 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:52.425 It was massive. 00:10:52.525 --> 00:10:55.635 And there was like one, two big shows a year, right? 00:10:55.635 --> 00:10:56.295 It would be. 00:10:56.714 --> 00:10:58.245 This huge event, right? 00:10:58.245 --> 00:11:00.905 Our contact, we'd have to staff up to the contact volume. 00:11:01.335 --> 00:11:03.194 Not so much anymore. 00:11:03.344 --> 00:11:06.344 We do still see it around holidays, right? 00:11:06.344 --> 00:11:11.444 So everyone goes out and gets their, streaming player of choice for Christmas. 00:11:11.925 --> 00:11:15.545 They plug it in, a couple days after Christmas, and we see, a. 00:11:15.765 --> 00:11:19.170 Spike in volume of folks having, wifi issues, setup issues, whatever 00:11:19.170 --> 00:11:24.900 that, looks like in these sort of one to two weeks after Christmas on 00:11:24.900 --> 00:11:25.140 there. 00:11:25.710 --> 00:11:28.470 Dave Hoekstra: All right, so sorry for digging too deep into the 00:11:29.570 --> 00:11:33.990 process of it, it's fascinating to me cuz you know where, what's really 00:11:33.990 --> 00:11:38.720 interesting, we very rarely get contact centers that are like rock stars. 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:45.019 Most of the time it's it's an insurance contact center or a water utilities 00:11:45.040 --> 00:11:46.480 company or something like that. 00:11:47.210 --> 00:11:49.900 And these stories are particularly fascinating. 00:11:49.900 --> 00:11:54.494 One of my favorites is, one of the cable companies we work with and 00:11:55.094 --> 00:12:01.069 their story was how before all of the big boxing fights their volume just. 00:12:01.995 --> 00:12:04.815 A hundred x and they have to deal with that. 00:12:04.815 --> 00:12:06.615 And so those are great stories that come across. 00:12:06.645 --> 00:12:08.355 All right, so that was point number one. 00:12:08.355 --> 00:12:10.665 What was point number two that you were going for earlier? 00:12:11.219 --> 00:12:15.120 Trent Ryan: Point number two was, and this was really new to me, coming from 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:19.365 a very US perspective is just tfn. 00:12:19.380 --> 00:12:23.479 So toll-free numbers are not prevalent in every market in the world. 00:12:23.629 --> 00:12:23.879 Okay. 00:12:23.909 --> 00:12:26.070 We think of us 1 801 8 8. 00:12:26.740 --> 00:12:28.210 Just standard practice. 00:12:28.210 --> 00:12:33.850 But in a lot of, emerging markets or just different markets, the expectations 00:12:33.850 --> 00:12:35.530 of customers are very different. 00:12:35.589 --> 00:12:40.130 Maybe their, telephony providers actually charged them, really high 00:12:40.150 --> 00:12:41.460 fees to call it one 800 number. 00:12:42.130 --> 00:12:45.314 So one of the things that we did is we actually implemented. 00:12:45.405 --> 00:12:48.170 VoIP and app calling directly in the app. 00:12:48.500 --> 00:12:48.740 Ah-huh. 00:12:49.090 --> 00:12:50.780 And that was, many years ago. 00:12:50.780 --> 00:12:54.980 I think we were, very early on that, I know it's somewhat more commonplace today. 00:12:55.920 --> 00:13:01.790 But that was, a real new staffing challenge for us in terms of, do these 00:13:01.790 --> 00:13:03.720 contacts have a different a h t right? 00:13:04.930 --> 00:13:09.560 Do we need, different sort of measures in place if, the kid gets a hold of 00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:14.510 the phone by mistake and accidentally hits the, talk to a human button. 00:13:14.795 --> 00:13:17.975 Those were all sort of new challenges for us to figure out when we implemented that. 00:13:17.975 --> 00:13:22.494 And I don't think it's something you would implement in, a us, dominated 00:13:24.605 --> 00:13:25.985 customer service experience. 00:13:25.985 --> 00:13:29.256 But when you start going global, it's one of the things you have to think about. 00:13:31.445 --> 00:13:34.755 Dave Hoekstra: That's actually honestly fascinating because I don't think a 00:13:34.755 --> 00:13:39.745 lot of people think about the mechanics of contacting someone by the phone. 00:13:39.745 --> 00:13:43.775 It used to be just purely phone and now we have options. 00:13:44.055 --> 00:13:47.235 Did you guys use a particular technology or did you use 00:13:47.235 --> 00:13:48.615 your own technology for that? 00:13:48.615 --> 00:13:49.885 In-app? 00:13:49.885 --> 00:13:50.295 Calling. 00:13:50.295 --> 00:13:51.815 Calling. 00:13:52.035 --> 00:13:54.735 Trent Ryan: I am not close enough to tell you with a hundred percent 00:13:54.735 --> 00:13:56.655 certainty that was built out. 00:13:56.655 --> 00:14:00.805 Very early in my tenure here at Netflix. 00:14:00.805 --> 00:14:05.324 Traditionally though, we do use a lot of our own, Technology when 00:14:05.324 --> 00:14:09.435 it comes to building out, like the agent experience and our sort of 00:14:09.435 --> 00:14:11.324 contact center platforms that we use. 00:14:11.535 --> 00:14:11.925 Okay. 00:14:11.925 --> 00:14:18.615 Dave Hoekstra: And so example would that be the, delivery mechanism of their 00:14:18.620 --> 00:14:20.355 knowledge base, that kind of stuff? 00:14:20.355 --> 00:14:22.186 Is that the kind of thing you're talking about? 00:14:22.675 --> 00:14:23.205 Yeah, it's 00:14:23.205 --> 00:14:24.615 Trent Ryan: evolved over the years. 00:14:24.615 --> 00:14:28.275 But so the crm a c D. 00:14:28.954 --> 00:14:32.765 Knowledge base is an example where that's currently in-house and we've experimented 00:14:32.765 --> 00:14:34.954 with other options over the years, right? 00:14:34.954 --> 00:14:37.175 Slightly outside of the workforce management realm. 00:14:37.704 --> 00:14:40.775 But workforce management actually was one of the few. 00:14:40.834 --> 00:14:44.584 It was the first piece of like third party technology that we implemented 00:14:44.584 --> 00:14:47.535 in the contact center and we took a look at building it ourselves. 00:14:47.885 --> 00:14:48.214 Actually. 00:14:48.214 --> 00:14:52.805 We came up with sort of a list of base level requirements and the. 00:14:53.355 --> 00:14:57.165 Sheer complexity of what would have to be built in order to make 00:14:57.165 --> 00:15:01.240 that successful was just not, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:03.375 We looked at it and said, we can't really add anything. 00:15:04.140 --> 00:15:07.920 New to this space that other folks have not done. 00:15:07.920 --> 00:15:12.180 And that's how we ended up, using third party tools in workforce management. 00:15:12.185 --> 00:15:16.260 And I think we're, on a bit of a journey as many companies are with implementing 00:15:16.265 --> 00:15:20.745 more and more third party tools where it makes sense into our infrastructure. 00:15:21.285 --> 00:15:21.485 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:15:21.485 --> 00:15:22.740 The build versus buy. 00:15:23.435 --> 00:15:24.035 Conundrum. 00:15:24.035 --> 00:15:30.035 It has always we at Collabreo see it a lot with organizations that are out 00:15:30.035 --> 00:15:33.545 there oh, I, I could build this in Excel. 00:15:33.545 --> 00:15:38.595 And generally there are certain things that you absolutely could build from 00:15:38.625 --> 00:15:40.055 database tables and things like that. 00:15:40.115 --> 00:15:45.115 And like you said, the hard part is getting the formulations just right and 00:15:45.125 --> 00:15:47.415 it takes a long time to get those right. 00:15:47.415 --> 00:15:50.435 And we often see a lot of those organizations do come back 00:15:50.435 --> 00:15:52.235 to us and say, yeah, that. 00:15:52.270 --> 00:15:53.560 That wasn't the best idea. 00:15:53.560 --> 00:15:54.930 Let's talk again. 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:58.940 And that's what's, that's what's fun about the journey to enable a lot 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.000 of these organizations to do it now. 00:16:01.870 --> 00:16:06.030 So let's talk a little bit about the W f M process that you guys go through right. 00:16:06.280 --> 00:16:10.430 From early on in the forecasting and the different departments. 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:15.640 Kinda walk me through the structure and the setup of how Netflix approaches, 00:16:15.699 --> 00:16:20.680 let's start with forecasting and then move through the different phases of workforce 00:16:20.680 --> 00:16:21.160 Trent Ryan: management. 00:16:21.885 --> 00:16:22.785 Yeah, absolutely. 00:16:22.785 --> 00:16:25.275 And we can maybe talk about this as we go as well. 00:16:25.275 --> 00:16:29.175 I always joke in our org that my mission is to get rid of 00:16:29.175 --> 00:16:30.735 Excel files and Google sheets. 00:16:30.735 --> 00:16:32.635 I just, they're so inefficient. 00:16:32.635 --> 00:16:36.105 They serve a place, but anything that we're generating this Excel 00:16:36.105 --> 00:16:38.444 file every week or every month. 00:16:38.444 --> 00:16:39.194 My goal. 00:16:39.425 --> 00:16:41.615 Is to have, Excel file zero, right? 00:16:41.615 --> 00:16:43.385 No Excel files at the end of the day. 00:16:43.685 --> 00:16:46.385 And it's a bit of a joke, right? 00:16:46.445 --> 00:16:47.025 But be careful 00:16:47.055 --> 00:16:47.665 that hits 00:16:48.035 --> 00:16:50.015 Dave Hoekstra: the heart of some of the people that are listening. 00:16:50.015 --> 00:16:50.405 I'm sure. 00:16:50.405 --> 00:16:50.675 Trent Ryan: I know. 00:16:50.675 --> 00:16:52.295 It's so powerful, right? 00:16:52.295 --> 00:16:55.565 But if there's an Excel file that requires, 30 minutes for you to put 00:16:55.565 --> 00:16:59.765 together and it's the same 15 steps every time, why aren't we automating 00:16:59.765 --> 00:17:03.575 that and just generating it automatically and presenting it, to the user, right? 00:17:03.635 --> 00:17:06.965 But anyway, to answer your actual question, and we can talk through 00:17:06.965 --> 00:17:08.194 some of these Excel files, we've. 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:09.865 Maybe gotten rid of over the years. 00:17:10.435 --> 00:17:15.010 So in the workforce management work, we have, essentially three main functions. 00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:20.020 We have a capacity planning organization, a scheduling organization, and then an 00:17:20.020 --> 00:17:22.200 intraday sort of real-time organization. 00:17:23.145 --> 00:17:25.095 And those folks are all regionalized as well. 00:17:25.635 --> 00:17:30.255 Something that is unique is we actually do not do our forecasts. 00:17:30.385 --> 00:17:31.905 On the workforce management side. 00:17:31.905 --> 00:17:35.535 We do the short-term forecast, but we get past the long-term 00:17:35.535 --> 00:17:37.710 forecast from our finance org. 00:17:37.710 --> 00:17:41.345 Who are, for a multitude of reasons, just better set up organizationally 00:17:41.365 --> 00:17:43.635 to generate a better forecast. 00:17:44.565 --> 00:17:48.615 We take that, the capacity planners take that forecast and generate the 00:17:48.615 --> 00:17:50.535 long range staffing requirements. 00:17:52.045 --> 00:17:52.335 Those. 00:17:52.335 --> 00:17:56.835 Then, going through the chain of workforce management, they're doing the long range 00:17:56.835 --> 00:18:00.004 hiring plans, long range, staffing plans. 00:18:00.690 --> 00:18:05.250 Factoring in things like call center shrinkage, FTE definitions, which vary 00:18:05.250 --> 00:18:07.140 dramatically from country to country. 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.205 They pass that over to the schedulers. 00:18:09.205 --> 00:18:13.350 The schedulers are responsible as the name would imply for doing the actual 00:18:13.355 --> 00:18:18.160 scheduling, but also, giving that feedback loop to the capacity planners, right? 00:18:18.430 --> 00:18:21.450 What is my schedule inflexibility, right? 00:18:22.370 --> 00:18:24.120 Because of, labor law, AZ. 00:18:24.735 --> 00:18:29.475 In this market, we're actually gonna have, a 20% or a 10% or a 15%, right? 00:18:29.475 --> 00:18:33.524 We've seen these vary dramatically by hours of operation as well as labor 00:18:33.524 --> 00:18:36.794 laws and then, very traditional as well. 00:18:36.794 --> 00:18:40.935 The intraday folks are there to really execute the plan, what's happening 00:18:40.935 --> 00:18:43.715 today, tomorrow, this week, and really drive the performance that 00:18:43.995 --> 00:18:45.435 we're targeting for the business. 00:18:46.095 --> 00:18:50.534 Dave Hoekstra: So you mentioned, externally from the WFM tool 00:18:50.635 --> 00:18:52.245 that you build the Ferguson. 00:18:52.575 --> 00:18:53.655 It's funny because. 00:18:54.135 --> 00:18:55.395 We see that a lot. 00:18:56.014 --> 00:18:59.355 We see that in a lot of organizations and I think it also shocks a lot 00:18:59.355 --> 00:19:03.675 of organizations like, what do you, why would you have this tool and 00:19:03.675 --> 00:19:05.054 not have it do the work for you? 00:19:05.115 --> 00:19:09.405 And I think a lot of it is because there are so many external factors that go 00:19:09.405 --> 00:19:11.739 into a larger organization's forecast. 00:19:12.100 --> 00:19:15.705 What are some of those forecasts you mentioned like potential show popularity. 00:19:15.705 --> 00:19:18.585 What are some of the other key drivers of a forecast? 00:19:19.785 --> 00:19:20.755 Trent Ryan: Contact rate. 00:19:20.995 --> 00:19:25.695 So we know like customers at different 10 years and their Netflix viewing experience 00:19:25.695 --> 00:19:27.765 will contact us at different rates. 00:19:29.125 --> 00:19:34.215 Big ones too that are, we talk a lot about the contact volume forecast, right? 00:19:34.215 --> 00:19:38.740 That's what everyone drives to, but we never talk about the a t forecast, right? 00:19:39.090 --> 00:19:42.795 And so we actually in some cases will, not in all, but in some cases 00:19:42.795 --> 00:19:46.575 we'll forecast different ts for different contact drivers, right? 00:19:46.575 --> 00:19:51.935 And so we think there's a contact volume forecast of, A thousand calls of, 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.100 this contact driver, that's actually a particularly complex call for our agents. 00:19:56.340 --> 00:19:59.400 We know we need to increase the overall a h t forecast, which can 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:04.250 drive the requirements just as much as, contact volume can as well. 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:04.730 Do 00:20:05.300 --> 00:20:12.015 Dave Hoekstra: you know which streaming devices cause more problems with your your 00:20:12.635 --> 00:20:13.410 Trent Ryan: customer base? 00:20:14.145 --> 00:20:15.975 That is a fantastic question. 00:20:15.975 --> 00:20:20.230 So one of the things at Netflix is we have a lot of data, so Somewhat I'm sure does. 00:20:20.710 --> 00:20:24.105 It's not something we've looked at in the CS space though, because 00:20:24.105 --> 00:20:25.885 it's not very actionable for us. 00:20:26.175 --> 00:20:27.585 From a CS perspective. 00:20:28.004 --> 00:20:28.425 Dave Hoekstra: Okay. 00:20:28.425 --> 00:20:29.485 That was just interesting. 00:20:29.595 --> 00:20:33.254 Could you go to Roku and say, Hey, how many Rokus? 00:20:33.254 --> 00:20:35.445 You said, oh no, get ready for all the calls. 00:20:35.445 --> 00:20:39.074 But I dunno this is just where my brain goes from time to time. 00:20:39.345 --> 00:20:41.355 So you've got a lot of handoffs. 00:20:41.730 --> 00:20:42.680 In the, in this process. 00:20:43.230 --> 00:20:48.880 So are there any real roadblocks that you've run into or any streamlining 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:51.840 opportunities that you've landed on that could really help another 00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:52.590 Trent Ryan: organization? 00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:57.810 One of the things that we used to do so I don't know the exact number off the top 00:20:57.810 --> 00:21:02.925 of my head, but from a capacity planning standpoint, we do that externally. 00:21:02.940 --> 00:21:07.750 And we used to do it in, spreadsheets. 00:21:07.750 --> 00:21:11.850 We had It's probably some 50 some odd capacity plans, right? 00:21:11.850 --> 00:21:13.500 That we're individually staffing to. 00:21:14.445 --> 00:21:18.705 We used to every single month get the, for the forecast from finance, 00:21:18.915 --> 00:21:23.355 load it into a spreadsheet staff to that, and then provide those headcount 00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:25.540 numbers back to finance, right? 00:21:26.110 --> 00:21:29.685 For the financial forecast, and then load them into, Calabrio 00:21:29.685 --> 00:21:30.625 for the schedule generation. 00:21:31.505 --> 00:21:36.575 And so we've been able to automate that entire life cycle of the capacity plan. 00:21:36.915 --> 00:21:41.685 And so rather than, 50 plus Excel files having to be sent, three, four 00:21:41.705 --> 00:21:45.065 times throughout the whole process, that just happens automatically. 00:21:45.455 --> 00:21:49.055 And then one of the things my team has been able to do as a 00:21:49.060 --> 00:21:51.665 result of that is really provide. 00:21:52.425 --> 00:21:56.655 Dashboards to anyone in the business who wants to view, Hey, what does our 00:21:56.655 --> 00:21:58.455 customer service staffing look like? 00:21:58.455 --> 00:22:02.175 Projected, service levels look like for a line of business, 00:22:02.175 --> 00:22:06.345 1, 2, 3, 4 in the organization. 00:22:06.405 --> 00:22:06.675 Right? 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:11.245 And that's something that's very unique to Netflix is it's such a culture of openness 00:22:12.105 --> 00:22:16.895 that anyone in the organization can come in and say, Hey, why did I have to wait, 00:22:16.895 --> 00:22:18.315 two minutes for my call to be answered? 00:22:18.315 --> 00:22:21.405 And they could pull up, in theory, the customer service staffing for 00:22:21.405 --> 00:22:25.795 that week, and they might come ask us and say, Hey I noticed, you all have, 00:22:25.845 --> 00:22:27.315 a one minute wait, two minute wait. 00:22:27.315 --> 00:22:28.315 What's going on there? 00:22:28.685 --> 00:22:32.805 And so we're able to provide that not only to CS members, but also just 00:22:32.805 --> 00:22:36.285 anyone in the business who needs to see what's happening with CS staffing. 00:22:36.945 --> 00:22:37.705 That's pretty cool. 00:22:38.265 --> 00:22:40.155 Dave Hoekstra: Automation is always something that everybody 00:22:40.155 --> 00:22:42.255 is, should be striving for. 00:22:42.665 --> 00:22:47.015 And it's great to see that you've taken these steps to reduce that 00:22:47.015 --> 00:22:49.915 complexity and make it so much smoother. 00:22:50.615 --> 00:22:55.925 Do does, do any of your, when you guys would go out and try to identify a third 00:22:55.925 --> 00:23:01.105 party solution do any of those, did any of those solutions really stand out for you? 00:23:01.445 --> 00:23:04.415 I noticed you said you at some point, you, I think you guys used 00:23:04.415 --> 00:23:07.345 Twilio Flex as a primary driver. 00:23:09.560 --> 00:23:12.909 Any other types of technology out there that really stand out for 00:23:12.909 --> 00:23:15.410 you as drivers to your success? 00:23:16.340 --> 00:23:16.580 Trent Ryan: Yeah. 00:23:16.610 --> 00:23:19.070 Twilio's is used on the teleph. 00:23:19.100 --> 00:23:20.330 I'm not an engineer. 00:23:20.660 --> 00:23:22.650 It's used on the telephony delivery side. 00:23:22.760 --> 00:23:26.190 And it's been used quite heavily within our internal tools. 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:31.040 In terms of other things, when we looked for workforce management 00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:36.800 particularly we really wanted something that was going to be extensible. 00:23:37.425 --> 00:23:40.195 And scalable. 00:23:40.195 --> 00:23:45.195 And for example, because we build our own, a c d we have to actually 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:46.905 go out and build that integration. 00:23:47.264 --> 00:23:48.225 Ourselves, right? 00:23:48.225 --> 00:23:48.314 Yes. 00:23:48.314 --> 00:23:53.534 So Netflix builds the integration between our a C D platform and the collab RT api. 00:23:53.534 --> 00:23:57.855 And while it may not have been important for many folks in the business, because 00:23:57.855 --> 00:24:01.935 I'm plugging off the shelf, a ac d into off the shelf workforce management, for us 00:24:01.939 --> 00:24:10.230 that was actually quite critical is that the, APIs be easily, There to integrate. 00:24:10.260 --> 00:24:10.560 Yeah. 00:24:10.620 --> 00:24:13.800 On the flip side though, probably more important for most people 00:24:14.070 --> 00:24:18.030 is what does the data warehouse look like that we can tap into? 00:24:18.399 --> 00:24:23.729 Because, to the earlier point, workforce management is great at reporting. 00:24:24.179 --> 00:24:30.720 We can go into workforce management, see, Skill level, performance 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:32.380 forecast, all that stuff. 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.640 But it's all in the workforce management box, and not everyone in the 00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:39.660 organization is going to, wanna log into the workforce management application. 00:24:39.870 --> 00:24:42.120 Sometimes you need to be able to push that data to them. 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:42.840 I find that 00:24:42.840 --> 00:24:43.111 Dave Hoekstra: hard to. 00:24:44.205 --> 00:24:45.315 I find that hard to believe. 00:24:45.615 --> 00:24:47.635 Everyone wants a piece of W F M. 00:24:47.675 --> 00:24:51.945 Trent Ryan: I've made so many logins, Dave, for folks, and I say, look, 00:24:51.945 --> 00:24:53.475 you can just do this yourself. 00:24:53.475 --> 00:24:58.425 And they say, no, I want my, Tableau dashboard, or I want my PDF emailed to me. 00:24:58.425 --> 00:25:01.905 So I, we do always have a joke about that, where, it is there if you want 00:25:01.909 --> 00:25:05.985 to go look for it, folks are, set in their ways in terms of how they want. 00:25:06.314 --> 00:25:07.905 The data to be presented to them. 00:25:08.625 --> 00:25:13.395 Dave Hoekstra: So if I were to ask you, so now you spent you spent a week at s w 00:25:13.395 --> 00:25:18.024 PPP in Nashville, which was, get to meet a lot of your peers and a lot of people. 00:25:18.024 --> 00:25:22.034 If I were to ask you, what's one thing that Netflix does 00:25:22.034 --> 00:25:24.646 significantly better than other contact centers that you've run into? 00:25:24.650 --> 00:25:28.084 And maybe one thing that, maybe there's some room for improvement there. 00:25:28.294 --> 00:25:29.264 What would you say? 00:25:30.854 --> 00:25:32.284 Trent Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. 00:25:32.605 --> 00:25:34.875 I think I was really struck by. 00:25:35.669 --> 00:25:39.570 Just in terms of the peers that you know, I met who were there, just how on 00:25:39.570 --> 00:25:44.729 top of it all of these organizations are right in terms of the sophistication of. 00:25:45.749 --> 00:25:48.560 Everyone's really there when it comes to workforce management now 00:25:48.889 --> 00:25:50.649 or is on the path to getting there. 00:25:50.909 --> 00:25:53.320 And so that was really impressive to see. 00:25:53.919 --> 00:25:54.289 Dave Hoekstra: Yeah. 00:25:54.289 --> 00:25:57.240 You don't run into a lot of people that go, gosh, what? 00:25:57.300 --> 00:25:59.040 What do you mean by shrinkage? 00:25:59.040 --> 00:26:04.235 What do it's man we had people coming up to ask and ask us, how do I do interval, 00:26:04.235 --> 00:26:08.285 interval level shrinkage on a skill-based team when I have multi-site applications? 00:26:08.285 --> 00:26:13.055 And it's wow, these are not things that I necessarily had to tackle back in the day. 00:26:13.055 --> 00:26:16.625 And it's really, yeah the level of complexity, but also the 00:26:16.625 --> 00:26:20.075 level of knowledge is astounding these days that's out there. 00:26:20.095 --> 00:26:20.295 Yeah. 00:26:20.300 --> 00:26:20.705 So 00:26:20.795 --> 00:26:21.125 Trent Ryan: great. 00:26:21.125 --> 00:26:21.935 Great example. 00:26:22.775 --> 00:26:23.195 Absolutely. 00:26:23.345 --> 00:26:26.675 Something that a lot of folks are just seem to really have nailed 00:26:26.675 --> 00:26:28.335 down and something that I think. 00:26:28.935 --> 00:26:32.775 We can always improve on is just really clear communication 00:26:32.775 --> 00:26:34.155 within the team, right? 00:26:34.155 --> 00:26:39.105 In terms of we have, multiple team members in multiple continents. 00:26:39.105 --> 00:26:40.845 In multiple countries, right? 00:26:40.905 --> 00:26:45.535 And just trying to be really thoughtful about how do we work asynchronously. 00:26:45.785 --> 00:26:47.415 Not everything needs to be a meeting. 00:26:47.455 --> 00:26:50.790 And if everything needs to be a meeting, Someone's always gonna 00:26:50.790 --> 00:26:54.720 have a really bad, time zone meeting at 1:00 AM or 2:00 AM Right? 00:26:55.080 --> 00:26:59.010 And so that was an interesting one that I saw a couple folks really have great 00:26:59.010 --> 00:27:03.760 ideas on how do we work effectively, asynchronously, maybe not, specific to 00:27:03.780 --> 00:27:07.290 workforce management, but that was one takeaway from the conference that I had. 00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:08.159 All 00:27:08.159 --> 00:27:08.429 Dave Hoekstra: right. 00:27:08.429 --> 00:27:15.254 So the final question I would have for you is, you we talk to a lot of people 00:27:15.254 --> 00:27:19.695 on the podcast that have really achieved the level of success that a lot of 00:27:19.695 --> 00:27:21.635 other people have been shooting for. 00:27:22.155 --> 00:27:27.574 You included, what are some things that you might say, maybe one or two tips that 00:27:27.574 --> 00:27:31.795 you might give to either an organization or individual who's maybe a little earlier 00:27:31.855 --> 00:27:36.024 in their journey about how you might have reached reached the level you were at? 00:27:37.405 --> 00:27:37.824 Trent Ryan: Yeah. 00:27:38.004 --> 00:27:39.885 I appreciate you saying that. 00:27:39.885 --> 00:27:42.014 It's very kind and generous of you. 00:27:42.014 --> 00:27:44.925 I'm not sure if I entirely agree with the premise of the question, but I'll 00:27:44.925 --> 00:27:46.615 go ahead and answer it for you anyway. 00:27:47.065 --> 00:27:51.805 I would say just be curious constantly, right? 00:27:52.095 --> 00:27:52.305 Yeah. 00:27:52.335 --> 00:27:54.364 There are so many resources out there. 00:27:54.695 --> 00:27:58.455 When I learned workforce management, I learned by hitting F1 and going 00:27:58.455 --> 00:28:01.425 into the help file and just reading the whole thing front to back, right? 00:28:01.425 --> 00:28:03.685 Not literally, Pretty muchly. 00:28:03.750 --> 00:28:04.410 Almost literally. 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:04.620 Yep. 00:28:05.020 --> 00:28:05.320 Yeah. 00:28:05.320 --> 00:28:07.080 And there's so many good resources. 00:28:07.080 --> 00:28:12.930 That was one that was available now, but now there's, LinkedIn groups, community 00:28:12.930 --> 00:28:17.400 groups that are available and folks who are willing to help you just because 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.460 they're giant nerds on the topic. 00:28:19.460 --> 00:28:22.410 And you'll see me in some of those groups sometimes chatting with folks, 00:28:22.800 --> 00:28:23.910 what's the best way to do this? 00:28:23.910 --> 00:28:26.790 Or what's the best way to do this on both sides, right? 00:28:26.790 --> 00:28:31.170 And it's a really collaborative environment and, be curious, ask for help. 00:28:31.814 --> 00:28:33.584 And you know you'll get there for 00:28:33.584 --> 00:28:33.945 Dave Hoekstra: sure. 00:28:34.274 --> 00:28:34.635 I. 00:28:35.054 --> 00:28:36.379 Completely agree. 00:28:36.540 --> 00:28:41.534 And I actually, most of my fellow collaborators that I work with are 00:28:41.534 --> 00:28:46.784 probably sick of hearing me say that if there's a singular trait that 00:28:46.784 --> 00:28:50.865 leads to success, especially in what we do for a living, it's curiosity. 00:28:50.865 --> 00:28:52.914 It's why is that the way it is? 00:28:53.185 --> 00:28:57.405 And, you get out your shovel and you just attack and keep going until. 00:28:57.650 --> 00:29:00.690 Until you're until you hit rock bottom and then you gotta 00:29:00.740 --> 00:29:01.670 crawl your way out of the hole. 00:29:01.670 --> 00:29:04.910 You dug yourself, but, and usually that means more work, right? 00:29:04.910 --> 00:29:07.640 When you discover that you have to do something, you're also like, 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:09.290 now I have to do it forever instead 00:29:09.295 --> 00:29:10.070 Trent Ryan: of going forward. 00:29:10.784 --> 00:29:14.955 There's nothing worse than finding out something's been, miscalibrated on a model 00:29:14.955 --> 00:29:18.165 and being the one to point it out because it means now it's on you to fix it. 00:29:18.165 --> 00:29:18.605 Yeah. 00:29:19.065 --> 00:29:19.514 It's the, 00:29:19.725 --> 00:29:20.685 Dave Hoekstra: The age old boy. 00:29:20.685 --> 00:29:22.034 I shouldn't have raised my hand. 00:29:22.034 --> 00:29:25.305 If I'd have just kept my hand down, I'd be, I have so much more free time. 00:29:26.155 --> 00:29:26.825 Absolutely. 00:29:27.025 --> 00:29:27.365 Yes. 00:29:27.695 --> 00:29:28.375 Okay. 00:29:29.035 --> 00:29:33.169 Trent, I have to say, first of all, Congratulations on the nomination. 00:29:33.530 --> 00:29:38.499 We know at this point that you didn't actually win the the award, 00:29:38.580 --> 00:29:44.159 but being nominated, you you, you might not even made it that far. 00:29:44.165 --> 00:29:48.449 So being nominated is a pretty great honor and, for an organization like 00:29:48.449 --> 00:29:52.439 S W Ppp, to recognize the work that you're doing, I think is fantastic 00:29:52.445 --> 00:29:56.070 and it really shows the dedication and professionalism that you've put forth. 00:29:56.310 --> 00:29:58.029 So congratulations on that. 00:29:58.819 --> 00:30:04.060 Second of all, Huge thank you for joining us on the podcast and letting people 00:30:04.060 --> 00:30:10.460 know, the Netflix name as is pretty synonymous with success that's out there. 00:30:10.460 --> 00:30:12.720 And so we're glad that you hear. 00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:17.850 One of the things that I always like to do is give, our guests the last word. 00:30:17.855 --> 00:30:22.180 So if I said to you, Hey, you've got a, you've got a soapbox here or a podium 00:30:22.180 --> 00:30:26.919 to say out to anyone that might be listening, what might you want to provide? 00:30:28.110 --> 00:30:30.330 Trent Ryan: I think I, I'm gonna just anchor back on that. 00:30:30.330 --> 00:30:31.710 Be curious, right. 00:30:31.710 --> 00:30:36.055 I think that is the number one lesson I've learned in my career is that, 00:30:36.705 --> 00:30:39.480 while it's sometimes scary, it's okay to raise your hand and say, 00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:40.860 Hey, why is this set up this way? 00:30:40.860 --> 00:30:42.900 Or Why are we doing things this way? 00:30:43.300 --> 00:30:46.080 And then that is going to dovetail into. 00:30:47.595 --> 00:30:52.335 Conversations and change and things you're just gonna have to figure out. 00:30:52.335 --> 00:30:53.925 But it's gonna be a fun journey along the 00:30:53.925 --> 00:30:58.275 Dave Hoekstra: way and know that you gotta back up your curiosity with data. 00:30:58.455 --> 00:31:00.675 You can't just say, Hey, this feels wrong. 00:31:00.675 --> 00:31:04.725 And then, run out like the Skeletor meme where it just runs out of the 00:31:04.725 --> 00:31:05.235 Trent Ryan: room, right? 00:31:05.235 --> 00:31:07.815 We absolutely, you can say, Hey, this feels wrong. 00:31:07.845 --> 00:31:10.975 Give me a day and I'll, get some data and we can look at this together. 00:31:11.345 --> 00:31:13.730 But you can't just say, Hey, that seems weird. 00:31:13.730 --> 00:31:14.660 And then go about your day. 00:31:14.660 --> 00:31:16.940 You didn't solve anything by doing that, right? 00:31:16.940 --> 00:31:17.710 Absolutely. 00:31:18.080 --> 00:31:18.630 Trent, it's 00:31:18.649 --> 00:31:21.610 Dave Hoekstra: been an absolute honor and a privilege to spend 00:31:21.610 --> 00:31:22.970 some time chatting with you here. 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.820 And I think we're, a lot of people are going to be gr very excited 00:31:26.840 --> 00:31:29.090 to hear what we have to say here. 00:31:29.330 --> 00:31:32.690 So first for me, thank you really appreciate the time. 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:37.220 And second of all, thank you as always to all of our listeners for you guys 00:31:37.220 --> 00:31:38.850 to give us some time of your day. 00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:40.705 It makes me super happy. 00:31:41.155 --> 00:31:45.780 And we are always looking for the next great Collabreo podcast. 00:31:45.780 --> 00:31:50.070 So if you are listening and you'd like to be featured on the podcast, let us know. 00:31:50.070 --> 00:31:54.570 Just go send an email to marketing@collabreo.com and say, 00:31:54.570 --> 00:31:55.680 I want to be on Dave Podcast. 00:31:56.310 --> 00:32:00.520 We can certainly take steps to make that happen, but I appreciate it. 00:32:00.810 --> 00:32:01.800 We all appreciate it. 00:32:02.070 --> 00:32:04.830 And most importantly, Trent, thank you so much for joining us. 00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:06.450 Trent Ryan: My name's Dave. 00:32:06.450 --> 00:32:06.659 Thank you. 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:06.960 Oh, 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:07.620 Dave Hoekstra: absolutely. 00:32:07.620 --> 00:32:10.560 My name's Dave Stra product evangelist here at Collabreo. 00:32:10.560 --> 00:32:13.980 So thank you to everyone out there, and we'll see you on the next episode 00:32:13.980 --> 00:32:15.630 of Working Smarter from Collabreo. 00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:15.900 Thanks 00:32:15.905 --> 00:32:16.290 Trent Ryan: everybody. 00:32:16.290 --> 00:32:16.890 Have a great day.