WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:40.090 --> 00:01:41.150 CJ: All right, Duke, we live. 00:01:41.150 --> 00:01:42.040 What are we talking about today? 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:43.825 Ah, whoa, we mixed it up! 00:01:45.695 --> 00:01:47.585 Duke: Don't say we never do anything for you! 00:01:47.605 --> 00:01:53.462 I think , we said the title of this one is going to be it, let's just record. 00:01:54.012 --> 00:01:54.792 CJ: Yeah, there we go. 00:01:54.792 --> 00:01:57.132 Like, today is, it, let's just record. 00:01:57.412 --> 00:02:00.222 So, we're coming to you live, and we're just recording. 00:02:00.222 --> 00:02:01.472 We'll see how this thing turns out. 00:02:01.472 --> 00:02:01.532 Let's see 00:02:02.412 --> 00:02:04.282 Duke: You're trapping us for 30 minutes! 00:02:04.342 --> 00:02:05.182 Strap in! 00:02:08.942 --> 00:02:10.002 CJ: where this thing goes. 00:02:10.192 --> 00:02:11.002 It's been a minute. 00:02:11.792 --> 00:02:14.052 Duke: Okay, you don't really grinds my gears 00:02:14.582 --> 00:02:15.752 CJ: What's that, Duke? 00:02:16.432 --> 00:02:19.712 Duke: There's this new thing in recruiting I'm not sure if it's new 00:02:19.712 --> 00:02:27.047 but it feels new can't remember the last time I saw a Recruiting invite 00:02:27.057 --> 00:02:33.477 like a job invite that included the compensation range what up with that? 00:02:34.187 --> 00:02:37.997 CJ: It's so funny too, because states are literally passing laws that 00:02:37.997 --> 00:02:40.027 require you to disclose compensation. 00:02:40.227 --> 00:02:40.897 And I agree. 00:02:40.897 --> 00:02:43.257 , I'm not even getting job descriptions with them either. 00:02:43.507 --> 00:02:45.877 But sometimes I'm just getting a, Hey, are you available? 00:02:47.217 --> 00:02:50.407 And, you know, but I mean, at the very least though, right? 00:02:50.407 --> 00:02:53.947 If you're me a job description, it should have the compensation attached to it. 00:02:53.947 --> 00:02:55.517 Let's save each other some trouble. 00:02:55.934 --> 00:02:58.404 Then I can tell you whether or not you're in my price range. 00:02:58.761 --> 00:03:00.081 Duke: Seriously, save us the trouble. 00:03:00.081 --> 00:03:03.311 And listen, okay, listen, if you're work for big recruiting 00:03:03.311 --> 00:03:07.691 right now, like just we're gonna meme on you for like 15 minutes 00:03:09.181 --> 00:03:09.881 CJ: Ha ha ha 00:03:10.061 --> 00:03:15.911 Duke: and we're gonna vent and all I can say is if you can just survive it for the 00:03:15.911 --> 00:03:19.681 next few minutes, you may learn something that's going to increase your success. 00:03:20.057 --> 00:03:21.347 and how might I know that? 00:03:21.527 --> 00:03:23.237 Because I closed like four recruiting deals. 00:03:23.237 --> 00:03:23.807 This month. 00:03:23.867 --> 00:03:25.897 So, like, how about that? 00:03:26.321 --> 00:03:27.111 CJ: Ha ha 00:03:27.341 --> 00:03:29.941 Duke: and I always put like four or five things. 00:03:29.941 --> 00:03:31.911 I don't even make big huge job descriptions. 00:03:31.911 --> 00:03:33.767 I just say here's the comp range. 00:03:33.847 --> 00:03:35.317 Here's the job title. 00:03:35.427 --> 00:03:37.227 Here's any other stipulations, right? 00:03:37.227 --> 00:03:38.637 Here's the nice to haves. 00:03:39.127 --> 00:03:42.167 CJ: Yeah, no, let's talk about that, dude, because I do, I've 00:03:42.167 --> 00:03:45.817 noticed, your job posts on LinkedIn, they are very transparent. 00:03:46.306 --> 00:03:50.206 Duke: and listen, like everybody who's a ServiceNow admin, ServiceNow 00:03:50.206 --> 00:03:53.586 dev, ServiceNow architect, they all know what the job is. 00:03:53.586 --> 00:03:56.446 They know they're going to be dealing with stakeholders in a cross 00:03:56.446 --> 00:03:58.286 disciplined, diverse environment. 00:03:58.316 --> 00:04:00.006 Like, everybody knows that. 00:04:00.416 --> 00:04:02.456 I don't need your fricking essay about it. 00:04:04.401 --> 00:04:05.871 CJ: So are you saying no cover letters, 00:04:07.856 --> 00:04:08.476 Duke: Funny enough. 00:04:08.476 --> 00:04:10.786 I had a customer ask for a cover letter and it's just like, okay, well, they 00:04:10.786 --> 00:04:12.546 want what they want traditionally. 00:04:12.546 --> 00:04:15.296 I'd say now email is a cover letter, right? 00:04:15.376 --> 00:04:17.456 If you're sending a resume via email, that should come, 00:04:17.854 --> 00:04:18.054 CJ: man? 00:04:18.054 --> 00:04:18.194 I 00:04:18.529 --> 00:04:19.149 Duke: what they want. 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:20.949 So he asked for a cover letter. 00:04:20.949 --> 00:04:21.749 I give him a cover letter. 00:04:22.037 --> 00:04:22.267 CJ: know. 00:04:22.267 --> 00:04:23.107 I hear you, man. 00:04:23.607 --> 00:04:26.417 I've been in, I've been in it for longer than I'd care to say 00:04:26.617 --> 00:04:28.507 on this podcast live in public. 00:04:29.617 --> 00:04:33.917 And I've written exactly one cover letter and my entire career. 00:04:35.392 --> 00:04:36.662 So, that's my rant, right? 00:04:36.672 --> 00:04:40.502 Like, I am absolutely, totally and completely anti covered letter, like, 00:04:40.512 --> 00:04:43.772 everything that you need to know about me is on the resume to get you 00:04:43.772 --> 00:04:44.972 to pick up the phone and call me. 00:04:45.162 --> 00:04:48.896 And at that point we can talk the cover letter, But I'm not right. 00:04:49.026 --> 00:04:50.016 I'm not writing an essay. 00:04:50.016 --> 00:04:51.216 I'm not applying for a grant. 00:04:51.941 --> 00:04:56.071 Duke: It's a vestigial organ of an old world, right? 00:04:56.071 --> 00:05:00.011 So if you'd, you'd apply for a job at the local plant, right? 00:05:00.111 --> 00:05:03.511 And, you know, the resumes for the new workers is probably all 00:05:03.511 --> 00:05:05.281 the manager read in a day, right? 00:05:05.281 --> 00:05:09.781 Except for the memos that came into his in his literal physical inbox or hers. 00:05:10.716 --> 00:05:11.046 CJ: Yeah. 00:05:11.046 --> 00:05:11.276 Yeah. 00:05:11.276 --> 00:05:11.525 Right. 00:05:11.526 --> 00:05:13.776 Like the little black tray on top of the wooden desk. 00:05:13.881 --> 00:05:17.527 Duke: but in this, in this information economy stuff, why 00:05:17.547 --> 00:05:19.237 give them something else to read? 00:05:19.247 --> 00:05:20.477 It's like, damn it. 00:05:20.521 --> 00:05:23.891 I just want to get to a ServiceNow resource right now. 00:05:23.917 --> 00:05:27.004 I don't want like this essay, cover letter and then, and then 00:05:27.004 --> 00:05:29.044 your freaking 5 or 6 page resume. 00:05:29.044 --> 00:05:29.904 We can get to that too. 00:05:30.332 --> 00:05:35.202 in the information economy, you gotta think that people, read more in a day 00:05:35.202 --> 00:05:39.172 to day than writers in the 1800s wrote. 00:05:39.787 --> 00:05:44.751 In a day, like authors, people, it's insane, but let's just skip back. 00:05:44.751 --> 00:05:46.621 Can we just go right back to the recruiter thing for a second? 00:05:46.746 --> 00:05:47.386 CJ: Yeah, go for it, 00:05:47.591 --> 00:05:49.871 Duke: we dunked on them hard and I just want to make sure they leave 00:05:49.871 --> 00:05:51.574 with something valuable, right? 00:05:51.644 --> 00:05:55.521 It's just trust the fact that the people you are asking to take service 00:05:55.521 --> 00:06:00.631 now jobs, know what a service now job entails, figure out what certs they need. 00:06:00.641 --> 00:06:01.751 They're absolutely required. 00:06:02.026 --> 00:06:03.146 and list those. 00:06:03.166 --> 00:06:05.606 Don't tell people that they're going to interact with humans all 00:06:05.606 --> 00:06:06.956 day because they already know that. 00:06:07.546 --> 00:06:09.806 Second, be transparent about the pay. 00:06:09.956 --> 00:06:11.586 People are going to find out anyway. 00:06:11.736 --> 00:06:16.856 And it's not like you're, detracting the bad actors from applying. 00:06:16.926 --> 00:06:22.956 Like if you hide , , the comp that suddenly people, The only 00:06:22.956 --> 00:06:27.921 thing you do by hiding that comp, Is waste a good resource's time 00:06:27.961 --> 00:06:28.771 if the numbers don't matter. 00:06:29.821 --> 00:06:30.171 CJ: Yeah. 00:06:30.801 --> 00:06:34.041 Duke: Oh, please, Can I please know what the compensation range is? 00:06:34.041 --> 00:06:36.191 And can I also get my food bowl filled too? 00:06:36.191 --> 00:06:37.571 Like, don't make us beg. 00:06:37.744 --> 00:06:40.744 Don't make us look at your stupid friggin calendly. 00:06:41.164 --> 00:06:44.504 Like, why should it be up to me going, like, I'm gonna 00:06:44.664 --> 00:06:45.414 CJ: man, you gotta, 00:06:45.514 --> 00:06:48.574 Duke: availability just so I can ask what your compensation range is. 00:06:49.274 --> 00:06:50.954 CJ: gotta back up off Calendly, man. 00:06:50.964 --> 00:06:51.994 That's my, that's my jam. 00:06:52.174 --> 00:06:54.034 Duke: no, I, I love Calumlee. 00:06:54.044 --> 00:06:56.694 I'm saying their stupid Calumlee, not mine. 00:07:00.074 --> 00:07:01.864 Oh, I feel a lot better though. 00:07:01.874 --> 00:07:02.894 Like, Mm hmm. 00:07:03.824 --> 00:07:05.164 CJ: no, but you're absolutely right. 00:07:05.424 --> 00:07:09.264 And, this is one of those things where, uh, you and I have a bit of privilege 00:07:09.284 --> 00:07:10.624 in, in this environment, right? 00:07:10.624 --> 00:07:13.894 Because we've been doing this for so long that , I'll be honest, 00:07:13.894 --> 00:07:16.674 ? Like right now, I don't even have to send a resume sometimes. 00:07:16.874 --> 00:07:20.471 . And so, I have my choice of whether or not. 00:07:20.711 --> 00:07:24.181 I want to work with you or whether or not I even want to answer your email or your 00:07:24.181 --> 00:07:27.817 LinkedIn message but there are a lot of people out there who aren't at our stage 00:07:27.827 --> 00:07:30.517 and their time still matters, right? 00:07:30.787 --> 00:07:31.177 Duke: right. 00:07:31.414 --> 00:07:36.204 CJ: and the experience matters for everybody and it saves everybody time. 00:07:36.374 --> 00:07:38.314 And everybody gets on the same page quicker. 00:07:38.804 --> 00:07:41.744 If everyone knows what the salary range is for a job, because 00:07:41.754 --> 00:07:43.104 nobody's working for free. 00:07:43.364 --> 00:07:46.094 Like we all do this to make money, to pay other things. 00:07:46.564 --> 00:07:46.874 Right. 00:07:46.874 --> 00:07:51.094 And so you are trying to get me into a position so that you can make money. 00:07:51.224 --> 00:07:54.314 And I am trying to get into that position so that I can make money. 00:07:54.464 --> 00:07:58.034 So let's just talk about what that money looks like up front, 00:07:58.854 --> 00:08:00.704 just send it to me in the message. 00:08:00.974 --> 00:08:03.524 And then I can tell you, Hey, thanks for reaching out. 00:08:03.824 --> 00:08:05.124 This is below my range. 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.409 I'll just keep me in mind for future projects. 00:08:07.409 --> 00:08:08.869 So I can say, Oh, no, this looks great. 00:08:08.869 --> 00:08:09.689 Let's talk about it. 00:08:09.689 --> 00:08:11.732 Here's my resume, Like, that's easy. 00:08:11.921 --> 00:08:15.361 Duke: It literally, yeah, it literally provides no advantage. 00:08:15.421 --> 00:08:18.261 Like, what advantage could it possibly give to keep that a 00:08:18.261 --> 00:08:19.531 secret for any length of time? 00:08:20.012 --> 00:08:23.222 CJ: I don't know because eventually you have to be transparent about it's not 00:08:23.222 --> 00:08:26.032 like you're saving margin either, because you're going to tell me what it pays. 00:08:26.272 --> 00:08:30.922 And I'm my salary request doesn't change based on how far in the process we get. 00:08:31.282 --> 00:08:31.502 Right. 00:08:31.502 --> 00:08:35.826 Like, so, I mean, if anything, it might go up once I figure out how much 00:08:35.826 --> 00:08:37.676 work the, um, the, the role entails. 00:08:37.986 --> 00:08:41.786 So you might, you might be doing a disservice to the client at the end of 00:08:41.786 --> 00:08:46.056 the day, because I might ask for a couple of dollars more because this seems like 00:08:46.056 --> 00:08:48.786 a little bit of more work than I thought it would be based on the description. 00:08:48.926 --> 00:08:51.866 Duke: Yeah, I had one recruiter try to tell me they'll decide on the 00:08:51.876 --> 00:08:54.506 comp after you've made it through all the rounds of interviews. 00:08:54.506 --> 00:08:55.806 I'm like, all the rounds of interviews? 00:08:55.806 --> 00:08:58.346 Okay, let's talk about hourly rate for doing interviews. 00:08:58.691 --> 00:08:59.181 CJ: Right. 00:08:59.296 --> 00:09:03.906 Duke: You know, because that's work for me, right? 00:09:04.871 --> 00:09:06.091 CJ: seriously, right. 00:09:06.371 --> 00:09:08.721 And even in this market, right. 00:09:08.721 --> 00:09:12.461 And this is a bit of a weird market right now across, you know, all sectors. 00:09:12.461 --> 00:09:16.201 . But even in this market, like the ecosystem, the service now ecosystem 00:09:16.201 --> 00:09:19.981 is one where talented resources can typically write their own ticket. 00:09:20.451 --> 00:09:25.061 . And so , nobody is going through all the rounds of interviews just to 00:09:25.061 --> 00:09:26.951 figure out what the position might pay. 00:09:27.336 --> 00:09:27.546 Right. 00:09:27.556 --> 00:09:30.376 Like, it sounds like it might even be an internship. 00:09:31.416 --> 00:09:31.826 Duke: Yep. 00:09:32.116 --> 00:09:33.026 Yeah, exactly. 00:09:33.026 --> 00:09:35.156 Like, can you imagine doing all that just to find out one of these? 00:09:35.156 --> 00:09:38.046 It's not, it's another one of these new, like, 45 an hour 00:09:38.046 --> 00:09:38.966 jobbies that are hitting the 00:09:39.656 --> 00:09:39.866 CJ: Yeah. 00:09:40.066 --> 00:09:40.766 Right. 00:09:40.776 --> 00:09:41.166 Duke: come on. 00:09:41.266 --> 00:09:41.936 Come on. 00:09:41.946 --> 00:09:43.536 Do you really want to be that company? 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:45.619 CJ: No, I don't think anybody really does. 00:09:45.669 --> 00:09:48.289 And the key here, , is that this is just a both ways thing, like 00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:49.409 treat everybody like a grownup. 00:09:49.829 --> 00:09:50.389 Duke: No kidding. 00:09:50.659 --> 00:09:51.149 No kidding. 00:09:51.426 --> 00:09:53.326 and that you actually want them. 00:09:53.726 --> 00:09:54.046 CJ: Yeah. 00:09:54.231 --> 00:09:54.681 Duke: You know what I mean? 00:09:54.681 --> 00:09:57.421 You're, you're prepared to like pay all the salary and benefits and 00:09:57.431 --> 00:09:59.211 stuff, like act like you want them. 00:09:59.241 --> 00:10:02.661 And another thing is like juniors won't be juniors forever, 00:10:03.202 --> 00:10:03.572 CJ: Fair, 00:10:03.854 --> 00:10:06.244 Duke: They'll remember, they'll remember how they're treated. 00:10:06.264 --> 00:10:09.017 And I'll tell you another thing, like, I don't care if you outsource 00:10:09.017 --> 00:10:13.334 your recruiting, the people who reach out on behalf of your company, 00:10:13.477 --> 00:10:16.697 as recruiters, paint a picture of what your company is like. 00:10:16.987 --> 00:10:18.037 Please don't let me name names. 00:10:18.057 --> 00:10:19.557 Please don't, please don't. 00:10:19.982 --> 00:10:22.112 CJ: Don't name any names, but what I would say, right? 00:10:22.112 --> 00:10:25.122 Like, if you are outsourcing, you're recruiting to other companies, you 00:10:25.122 --> 00:10:26.352 should be ministry shopping them. 00:10:26.629 --> 00:10:29.309 Like, you should be understanding what the experience is like for 00:10:29.309 --> 00:10:31.609 the candidates who are going through your outsource recruiting. 00:10:31.609 --> 00:10:34.169 So you can understand, the quality of candidates that you're 00:10:34.169 --> 00:10:35.359 recruiting firm is bringing. 00:10:35.554 --> 00:10:39.157 At the table, Because that's important because you might wonder why you can 00:10:39.157 --> 00:10:41.424 never get like a good, quality candidate. 00:10:41.614 --> 00:10:44.994 And it might just turn out that the experience working with 00:10:44.994 --> 00:10:47.344 your recruiting firm is right. 00:10:47.344 --> 00:10:48.014 It's horrible. 00:10:48.324 --> 00:10:51.854 And so like good candidates drop out because again, in this market, in a 00:10:51.854 --> 00:10:55.264 service now ecosystem, if you've got talent, you've got experience and you've 00:10:55.264 --> 00:10:57.444 got skill, you can write your own ticket. 00:10:57.869 --> 00:10:58.289 Right. 00:10:58.389 --> 00:11:01.939 So you don't have to deal with that, right? 00:11:01.939 --> 00:11:05.149 This is not a, uh, supply side market here. 00:11:05.149 --> 00:11:06.679 This is, or, or maybe it is. 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:08.599 And the supply is with the resource, right? 00:11:08.599 --> 00:11:10.759 The supply is with folks like us, right? 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:13.429 And that supply is very, is very narrow and marginal, right? 00:11:13.429 --> 00:11:16.379 Like we're service now is rising up and I'm a, I'm a big proponent 00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:17.539 of the rise up program, right? 00:11:17.539 --> 00:11:18.969 Like you see my face on it all the time. 00:11:19.369 --> 00:11:19.799 And. 00:11:20.239 --> 00:11:24.619 There's 1, 000, 000 new resources, 1, 000, 000 new people in the ecosystem by 00:11:24.619 --> 00:11:30.429 next year, not this year, and those, and those folks still got to climb up, right? 00:11:30.429 --> 00:11:31.729 They still got to get the skills. 00:11:31.729 --> 00:11:33.369 They still got to get the experience, right? 00:11:33.649 --> 00:11:34.679 They're not CJ. 00:11:34.689 --> 00:11:35.699 They're not the Duke. 00:11:36.072 --> 00:11:38.292 And look, make this easy on everybody. 00:11:38.292 --> 00:11:39.482 Let's just treat everybody. 00:11:39.522 --> 00:11:43.916 With respect for the time and, and just imagine the respect for your 00:11:43.916 --> 00:11:45.306 time that you're going to get back, 00:11:45.541 --> 00:11:48.127 Duke: Yeah, yeah, I feel so, so much better. 00:11:49.877 --> 00:11:50.427 I really do. 00:11:51.002 --> 00:11:53.842 CJ: you know, it's just the consolidation of all the stuff that we see on LinkedIn. 00:11:53.892 --> 00:11:54.052 Right? 00:11:54.052 --> 00:11:56.222 Like, I don't talk about this a lot on LinkedIn, but 00:11:56.222 --> 00:11:57.582 I see all the posts about it. 00:11:57.582 --> 00:11:57.742 Right. 00:11:57.742 --> 00:11:59.572 And I, and I, and I deal with it as well. 00:11:59.772 --> 00:12:00.712 it's just like, let's. 00:12:01.238 --> 00:12:02.357 here's how you can help. 00:12:02.357 --> 00:12:05.914 Here's how we're trying to help you instead of just, griping about it to 00:12:05.914 --> 00:12:07.164 each other, which we do all the time, 00:12:07.584 --> 00:12:07.934 Duke: yeah. 00:12:08.044 --> 00:12:08.344 Yeah. 00:12:08.549 --> 00:12:09.589 Anything you want to talk about? 00:12:10.454 --> 00:12:12.764 CJ: man, that felt cathartic. 00:12:12.764 --> 00:12:12.984 Right? 00:12:12.984 --> 00:12:16.254 Like, so, yeah, let's talk about Jenny. 00:12:16.254 --> 00:12:19.965 I, so first let's, let's take a, I want to zoom out. 00:12:19.965 --> 00:12:23.421 Have you, used chat GPT lately with the Dolly integration? 00:12:23.834 --> 00:12:27.724 Duke: No, I've been using, the demo version, chat GPT, not chat GPT 4. 00:12:27.754 --> 00:12:28.284 I am good. 00:12:28.324 --> 00:12:29.754 Like you, you twisted my arm. 00:12:29.834 --> 00:12:30.594 You twisted my arm. 00:12:31.614 --> 00:12:34.124 I am going to get the, uh, the premium. 00:12:34.569 --> 00:12:35.499 CJ: Come on, man. 00:12:35.684 --> 00:12:36.274 Duke: I know, man. 00:12:36.274 --> 00:12:39.369 Yeah. 00:12:39.699 --> 00:12:41.459 CJ: if you're less cheap than the Duke, 00:12:42.464 --> 00:12:45.559 Duke: Yeah. 00:12:45.859 --> 00:12:46.129 CJ: right? 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:50.569 Like the Dali integration with chat GPT is freaking amazing, right? 00:12:50.569 --> 00:12:54.279 Like it is such a game changer in terms of image creation. 00:12:54.639 --> 00:13:00.230 But that leads me to my, next point is that the AI integration into service now. 00:13:00.425 --> 00:13:01.635 It's also a game changer. 00:13:01.797 --> 00:13:02.157 And. 00:13:02.611 --> 00:13:04.902 For me, I don't look at this as a threat. 00:13:04.912 --> 00:13:06.482 Maybe it will be in a few years. 00:13:06.502 --> 00:13:06.982 Maybe not. 00:13:06.982 --> 00:13:09.997 We'll see, all these, all technology starts off, as folks thinking 00:13:09.997 --> 00:13:11.457 like, this is going to take my job. 00:13:11.457 --> 00:13:15.081 And most of the time it creates more, but, what I look at this as a 00:13:15.081 --> 00:13:16.961 force to multiply for myself, right? 00:13:16.971 --> 00:13:21.171 Like, I'm already, you know, faster than the average bear, but with gen AI, like 00:13:21.171 --> 00:13:24.656 all of those little, you know, Random command lists and functions that I used 00:13:24.656 --> 00:13:26.686 to have to write to make code work. 00:13:26.696 --> 00:13:32.016 Like I can have chat GPT, you write that stuff for me, but let me tell you, and 00:13:32.016 --> 00:13:36.900 still, and that saves me time and it saves me like tedium, which are both great. 00:13:36.910 --> 00:13:38.990 In my opinion, I hate tedium really, really hate it. 00:13:39.380 --> 00:13:45.730 , but the next thing, the best thing about chat GPT integrations in a service now 00:13:45.750 --> 00:13:49.360 is that chat GPT will document my code. 00:13:49.725 --> 00:13:55.365 Greg, it will write comments to the level of specificity that I ask it. 00:13:55.655 --> 00:14:01.325 If I say chat, GTP document every single line in this code, it will 00:14:01.325 --> 00:14:03.445 do it and I don't have to write it. 00:14:03.445 --> 00:14:04.205 I could just add it. 00:14:04.205 --> 00:14:04.915 It is amazing. 00:14:05.325 --> 00:14:06.505 We all hate comments. 00:14:06.505 --> 00:14:06.755 Really? 00:14:06.755 --> 00:14:07.175 We're developers. 00:14:08.005 --> 00:14:10.755 How often have you run into an instance where there's no comments in code? 00:14:11.183 --> 00:14:12.563 Duke: So, first of all, I love comments. 00:14:13.138 --> 00:14:13.518 CJ: Yeah. 00:14:13.518 --> 00:14:13.938 Right. 00:14:13.978 --> 00:14:14.398 Right. 00:14:14.448 --> 00:14:16.158 Oh, well, well, okay. 00:14:16.198 --> 00:14:16.398 Yeah. 00:14:16.398 --> 00:14:18.238 Well, I mean, I love them to hate writing them. 00:14:18.248 --> 00:14:19.708 Love them when they exist 00:14:20.508 --> 00:14:22.158 Duke: Yeah, no, I can see that. 00:14:22.308 --> 00:14:24.128 I mean, that definitely seems like a great use case. 00:14:24.128 --> 00:14:27.588 take my code and then write comments about it. 00:14:27.872 --> 00:14:29.882 CJ: and flip it, flip it. 00:14:29.882 --> 00:14:30.232 Right. 00:14:30.332 --> 00:14:31.132 Like take this code. 00:14:31.132 --> 00:14:33.012 I just, I just, I just started this gig. 00:14:33.032 --> 00:14:33.342 Right. 00:14:33.602 --> 00:14:35.182 I'm jumping in this instance, man. 00:14:35.182 --> 00:14:37.062 It's like 300 lines of code here. 00:14:37.062 --> 00:14:39.732 I can read it all or chat GPT. 00:14:40.102 --> 00:14:40.592 Bam. 00:14:40.592 --> 00:14:41.662 Tell me what this does. 00:14:42.652 --> 00:14:44.192 Oh, that's great. 00:14:44.292 --> 00:14:45.582 Then you go back and read it. 00:14:45.882 --> 00:14:47.422 Duke: Man, did I tell you? 00:14:47.882 --> 00:14:48.272 Okay. 00:14:48.272 --> 00:14:50.952 So I'm part of the, uh, service now developer discord. 00:14:51.452 --> 00:14:51.742 CJ: Thank you. 00:14:51.955 --> 00:14:53.915 Duke: we'll have a link in the description for that below, by the way. 00:14:53.968 --> 00:14:59.618 but we have a jobs board there and I post the jobs I'm recruiting for. 00:14:59.788 --> 00:15:05.112 And some developer came on and said that, Oh, I can do this. 00:15:05.272 --> 00:15:09.482 And so we started asking him questions and, , he was just posting 00:15:09.482 --> 00:15:11.012 chat, GPT answers to the question. 00:15:12.597 --> 00:15:14.447 So like, can I just read it out? 00:15:14.457 --> 00:15:16.027 It's, it's hilarious, man. 00:15:16.027 --> 00:15:16.567 It's hilarious. 00:15:17.297 --> 00:15:17.867 CJ: I love it. 00:15:17.907 --> 00:15:18.317 Go for 00:15:18.447 --> 00:15:19.827 Duke: So hi, nice to meet. 00:15:19.827 --> 00:15:20.337 Why? 00:15:21.347 --> 00:15:21.357 CJ: I 00:15:23.057 --> 00:15:25.057 Duke: I am senior full stack developer. 00:15:25.097 --> 00:15:27.057 I am for six years experience. 00:15:28.177 --> 00:15:29.907 I can fully satisfy your needs. 00:15:30.167 --> 00:15:30.737 DM me. 00:15:31.027 --> 00:15:31.267 Okay. 00:15:31.267 --> 00:15:33.337 So I'm like, okay, let's, let's see what this is all about. 00:15:33.687 --> 00:15:34.017 Okay. 00:15:35.197 --> 00:15:38.277 So here's me tell me about your ServiceNow experience. 00:15:38.912 --> 00:15:41.552 I have had excellent experience at ServiceNow, leveraging its 00:15:41.552 --> 00:15:44.702 powerful features to streamline our IT service management processes. 00:15:45.262 --> 00:15:48.712 In my previous role, I successfully implemented ServiceNow's IT service 00:15:48.717 --> 00:15:56.077 management bracket I T S M solutions, to improve incident , resolution time by 30%. 00:15:56.367 --> 00:15:59.817 I customized workflow, automated routine tasks, and integrated 00:15:59.817 --> 00:16:01.797 various IT tools resulting in a more. 00:16:01.927 --> 00:16:04.257 Efficient, responsive IT support system. 00:16:04.687 --> 00:16:08.037 Additionally, I utilize ServiceNow's reporting and analytics tools 00:16:08.047 --> 00:16:11.727 to generate actionable insights, allowing us to proactively address 00:16:11.787 --> 00:16:13.707 issues and optimize our services. 00:16:14.077 --> 00:16:18.357 Overall, my experience with ServiceNow has significantly enhanced our IT operations 00:16:18.567 --> 00:16:19.807 and contributed to our team's success. 00:16:20.645 --> 00:16:28.575 CJ: Yeah, all right. 00:16:28.605 --> 00:16:31.375 Duke: it's like such a TPT to ludicrous speed. 00:16:31.845 --> 00:16:32.565 CJ: Right. 00:16:34.505 --> 00:16:34.755 All right. 00:16:34.765 --> 00:16:36.865 So if you're listening, you got through that, don't do that. 00:16:37.895 --> 00:16:38.275 Duke: Okay. 00:16:38.295 --> 00:16:40.285 So that's just the beginning. 00:16:40.565 --> 00:16:41.395 Here's the good part. 00:16:41.615 --> 00:16:41.945 Okay. 00:16:42.158 --> 00:16:45.368 being suspicious that perhaps this was not generated by a human. 00:16:45.598 --> 00:16:49.208 I said, tell me about the hardest thing you built in service now and 00:16:49.208 --> 00:16:50.598 which components you built with it. 00:16:51.003 --> 00:16:52.743 Please talk in plain language. 00:16:53.463 --> 00:16:57.183 Okay, simply put, IT service management solutions integrating 00:16:57.503 --> 00:17:00.223 IT operations management and IT business management modules. 00:17:00.503 --> 00:17:01.663 These parts were difficult. 00:17:05.373 --> 00:17:05.873 CJ: Okay, 00:17:06.083 --> 00:17:08.473 Duke: It's like, okay, six years experience ServiceNow. 00:17:10.083 --> 00:17:12.693 You definitely am for six years experience. 00:17:14.973 --> 00:17:18.393 CJ: I mean, seriously, was it a, well, you're talking to the bot, maybe you 00:17:18.393 --> 00:17:19.823 were talking directly to the bot. 00:17:19.833 --> 00:17:23.643 Maybe there was a, discord integration, the chat GPT on the other end, 00:17:23.903 --> 00:17:26.953 Duke: joke's on me and I just trained some AI to be that much 00:17:26.963 --> 00:17:28.113 better at ServiceNow interviews. 00:17:28.553 --> 00:17:28.728 Mm hmm. 00:17:28.728 --> 00:17:28.903 Mm hmm. 00:17:29.843 --> 00:17:31.043 CJ: like, wow. 00:17:31.802 --> 00:17:35.652 think AI is a great tool and I think everybody should use it. 00:17:35.792 --> 00:17:36.032 Right. 00:17:36.032 --> 00:17:38.942 I think you also should be careful how you use it. 00:17:39.312 --> 00:17:39.662 Right. 00:17:39.662 --> 00:17:43.362 Like, you know, at the end of the day, this, it, it hallucinates. 00:17:43.672 --> 00:17:44.042 Right. 00:17:44.072 --> 00:17:46.802 So you want to make sure that the thing that is telling you to 00:17:46.802 --> 00:17:49.092 do is actually something that's grounded in the real world. 00:17:49.448 --> 00:17:51.168 I'm really good at editing. 00:17:51.638 --> 00:17:54.428 It takes me sometimes a little while to get going when you're creating something 00:17:54.478 --> 00:17:55.908 from something from scratch, right? 00:17:56.078 --> 00:18:00.498 Chat GPT as a giving you like a place to start that you kind of edit 00:18:00.498 --> 00:18:04.678 and refine and build on and until it's yours and it doesn't and is no 00:18:04.678 --> 00:18:07.168 longer chat GPTs, that's fine, right? 00:18:07.168 --> 00:18:08.683 It won't sound like any of that. 00:18:08.983 --> 00:18:09.503 Duke: hmm. 00:18:09.963 --> 00:18:13.523 CJ: But if you just like throw a prompt in there and then take the 00:18:13.523 --> 00:18:15.283 read out and say, this is my answer. 00:18:15.283 --> 00:18:15.623 Yeah. 00:18:15.673 --> 00:18:18.083 You're going to end up on the CJ and the Duke a jam session. 00:18:19.543 --> 00:18:20.823 Duke: I'll tell you what I'm excited about. 00:18:21.563 --> 00:18:22.043 CJ: What's that? 00:18:22.463 --> 00:18:26.518 Duke: I am hoping that somehow they merge the worlds of Natural language, 00:18:26.518 --> 00:18:32.215 understanding and chat GPT or whatever, whatever model service now uses. 00:18:32.215 --> 00:18:32.445 Right. 00:18:32.475 --> 00:18:34.325 I'm, I'm still like, I'm not a super AI guy. 00:18:36.362 --> 00:18:40.982 I hope they merge those two worlds and make a more like, like a conversational 00:18:41.002 --> 00:18:42.512 reporting and analytics interface. 00:18:43.290 --> 00:18:43.800 CJ: Ooh, I like 00:18:44.035 --> 00:18:49.715 Duke: So it's like, Hey, come up with a model that tells me how 00:18:49.715 --> 00:18:51.695 good most of my knowledge base is. 00:18:51.910 --> 00:18:54.620 and I'm sure there's ways you could build your own queries 00:18:54.670 --> 00:18:56.080 and maybe that is easier way. 00:18:56.080 --> 00:18:58.230 But I just like to just say, like, listen, service. 00:18:58.230 --> 00:19:01.253 Now, the experts, they've got like, a million, everybody else's data. 00:19:01.253 --> 00:19:02.533 So why can't they say something? 00:19:02.533 --> 00:19:05.377 Like, here's a good measure of a, knowledge basis strength. 00:19:05.727 --> 00:19:07.157 And so when you go and say, Okay. 00:19:11.487 --> 00:19:14.847 And have it come back with listen, 80 percent of your articles haven't 00:19:14.847 --> 00:19:20.520 even been viewed or like, here's a collection of the ones that, have been 00:19:20.520 --> 00:19:23.940 Mark useful and use them as a sample, or here's the ones that are, that are 00:19:24.020 --> 00:19:25.530 actually for products are out of date. 00:19:25.875 --> 00:19:28.805 Have it strip out the old text or maybe, maybe don't even ask it. 00:19:28.815 --> 00:19:32.365 Maybe you just, it's got some kind of like AI insights for you. 00:19:32.455 --> 00:19:34.675 When you come in for work the next morning, you just sit down. 00:19:35.075 --> 00:19:38.375 Do your coffee, sip, and then it just says, Hey, Mr. 00:19:38.375 --> 00:19:40.865 Admin, you know, your knowledge base is mostly crap. 00:19:43.915 --> 00:19:44.275 should know. 00:19:44.275 --> 00:19:45.145 Enjoy your coffee. 00:19:47.975 --> 00:19:49.100 CJ: that's a great point, right? 00:19:49.100 --> 00:19:50.615 Like one of the things when I started. 00:19:50.715 --> 00:19:54.705 Doing ITSM, right, which was on a product previous to a service. 00:19:54.705 --> 00:19:59.035 Now, like one of the things my boss was keen on was what are the industry 00:19:59.035 --> 00:20:03.055 standard KPIs, and metrics that we need to be looking out for, right? 00:20:03.055 --> 00:20:05.485 And like, where, where can we find this list? 00:20:05.525 --> 00:20:09.105 There used to be a site, I think that used to have like a list of. 00:20:09.475 --> 00:20:09.955 Duke: library. 00:20:10.280 --> 00:20:10.940 CJ: Is that where it is? 00:20:10.940 --> 00:20:11.170 Okay. 00:20:11.170 --> 00:20:11.990 KPI library. 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:12.220 Yeah. 00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:15.810 And so, that benchmark where you you can take your data and benchmark 00:20:15.810 --> 00:20:18.637 it against those KPIs and come up with some kind of measurement and 00:20:18.637 --> 00:20:22.407 you don't have to figure out what best practice is like, that's great. 00:20:22.437 --> 00:20:24.637 Put that in the AI, which probably is. 00:20:25.107 --> 00:20:26.737 And boom, that's, I mean, that's value. 00:20:27.437 --> 00:20:27.867 Absolutely. 00:20:27.867 --> 00:20:28.237 Value. 00:20:29.752 --> 00:20:31.212 Library is shot. 00:20:32.257 --> 00:20:32.777 Duke: what's that? 00:20:33.012 --> 00:20:33.652 CJ: It's shot. 00:20:34.007 --> 00:20:34.787 Duke: Oh, shut down. 00:20:34.937 --> 00:20:35.247 Oh. 00:20:35.764 --> 00:20:37.294 Maybe they sold the IP to somebody. 00:20:37.774 --> 00:20:38.004 CJ: Yeah. 00:20:38.014 --> 00:20:38.464 I hope so. 00:20:38.857 --> 00:20:40.877 Duke: ServiceNet already has those benchmarks, right? 00:20:40.877 --> 00:20:44.807 I'm not sure how heavily they're used, but maybe something that also guides 00:20:44.847 --> 00:20:47.997 in the development of an app, when I'm teaching people about developing 00:20:48.017 --> 00:20:51.467 apps and reporting, like, you know how I'm all about the outcomes, right? 00:20:51.467 --> 00:20:55.397 Outcomes, outcomes, outcomes, and those form your basis for your performance 00:20:55.397 --> 00:20:59.437 analytics because if you're going to do performance management against 00:20:59.437 --> 00:21:03.107 your outcomes and you need to judge the present against the past, right? 00:21:04.070 --> 00:21:07.757 but people just build apps all the time, And how much time 00:21:07.757 --> 00:21:08.747 and energy do you think about? 00:21:08.747 --> 00:21:10.757 Oh, do I need to build PA stuff for it? 00:21:11.207 --> 00:21:14.437 And most of the time they just avoid it because building PA stuff is hard. 00:21:15.077 --> 00:21:17.787 But it doesn't have to be hard because they even have that thing that's basically 00:21:17.857 --> 00:21:20.717 like copy all the main indicators, but make it for this table, right? 00:21:21.287 --> 00:21:21.597 CJ: Right. 00:21:22.452 --> 00:21:26.892 Duke: Sorry, I'm going DPA here, but imagine if it's like AES, it's AES, right? 00:21:26.892 --> 00:21:31.392 And you have some kind of like, it's for my soaping app and what is the thing 00:21:31.662 --> 00:21:33.562 that you're most interested in tracking? 00:21:33.775 --> 00:21:35.635 And I say, I need to know. 00:21:35.694 --> 00:21:39.987 how many of my batches got botched in a given period and I need 00:21:39.987 --> 00:21:44.350 to know the, the speed at which my ingredients are being used. 00:21:44.420 --> 00:21:44.710 Right? 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.920 So I basically, I use a lot more olive oil than everything else. 00:21:48.330 --> 00:21:50.070 So my palm oil is going to last me months. 00:21:50.070 --> 00:21:52.340 My olive oil is going to last me days and. 00:21:52.382 --> 00:21:55.182 think of all the things chat GPT already interprets very well. 00:21:55.182 --> 00:21:58.822 Imagine we could just say okay There's here's an ingredient usage table So 00:21:58.822 --> 00:22:04.032 let's track the sum of the ingredients over time should be able to extrapolate 00:22:04.042 --> 00:22:07.369 that for me saying I'm worried about my ingredient Consumption and then just have 00:22:07.379 --> 00:22:11.574 it make the indicators for you And then have a dev, like the person who really 00:22:11.574 --> 00:22:16.454 knows PA, just give the AI a crackhead check to make sure it was built right. 00:22:17.254 --> 00:22:18.464 Saves so much time! 00:22:19.164 --> 00:22:23.034 And not only would it save it time, but it would actually, book more business. 00:22:23.210 --> 00:22:25.340 how many customers right now are just on the precipice of just 00:22:25.340 --> 00:22:26.330 saying, why am I paying for PA? 00:22:26.760 --> 00:22:27.400 Because I don't use it. 00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:28.370 Yeah, because you don't know 00:22:29.214 --> 00:22:32.290 CJ: Yeah, yeah, no, that, that's, that's a good point. 00:22:32.340 --> 00:22:32.650 Duke: sorry. 00:22:32.810 --> 00:22:33.330 CJ: you're good. 00:22:33.390 --> 00:22:35.960 No, you're good because I totally agree with you. 00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:39.000 There's a lot of functionality and service now that I feel like is 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.880 underutilized because folks just don't know how, because it's outside the 00:22:43.020 --> 00:22:47.460 beaten path of like a very specific thing, incident specific, right? 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:48.100 Problem. 00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:49.250 Well, that's not a new problem. 00:22:49.430 --> 00:22:52.300 Can we still low wonky change specific, right? 00:22:52.850 --> 00:22:53.130 P. 00:22:53.130 --> 00:22:53.470 A. 00:22:53.650 --> 00:22:55.454 Not specific, P. 00:22:55.454 --> 00:22:55.464 A. 00:22:55.464 --> 00:22:56.034 Is vague. 00:22:56.064 --> 00:22:56.324 P. 00:22:56.324 --> 00:22:56.454 A. 00:22:56.454 --> 00:22:57.464 Is kind of broad. 00:22:57.667 --> 00:22:58.937 there's no really good. 00:22:59.077 --> 00:23:01.674 this is how you do PA thing. 00:23:01.864 --> 00:23:02.614 However, right? 00:23:02.754 --> 00:23:06.644 Like, Oh, what's up the post that you made Duke on community, that's, that's great. 00:23:06.714 --> 00:23:08.364 That taught me PA actually. 00:23:08.674 --> 00:23:10.934 , but like going back to what you were talking about though, like it 00:23:10.944 --> 00:23:12.594 just reminded me so much of Clippy. 00:23:12.954 --> 00:23:15.804 Like you, you want, like, while you're doing, while you're doing PA, 00:23:16.114 --> 00:23:18.994 you want Clippy to pop up was like, or are you trying to do a metric? 00:23:20.459 --> 00:23:22.549 Duke: I don't want interruption, no way, no how. 00:23:24.479 --> 00:23:27.279 CJ: Oh, man, like Clippy was just ahead of his time, right? 00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:29.909 Imagine Clippy with AI, that would be amazing. 00:23:29.959 --> 00:23:31.389 Microsoft needs to get on that. 00:23:32.205 --> 00:23:36.185 Duke: I just, I just remember that meme I saw with like some, it's like, 00:23:36.185 --> 00:23:37.995 it's the top of a letterhead it says. 00:23:39.975 --> 00:23:41.335 CJ: Let's edit this one out. 00:23:48.030 --> 00:23:49.540 Duke: Yeah, probably so. 00:23:49.895 --> 00:23:51.545 CJ: yeah, we're going to need to edit that one. 00:23:51.625 --> 00:23:54.065 No, but, but yes. 00:23:56.705 --> 00:23:57.515 Oh, man. 00:23:58.805 --> 00:24:00.025 What else is going to do? 00:24:00.035 --> 00:24:00.755 You know what? 00:24:01.165 --> 00:24:05.045 Create a con, a call for content is just gone live. 00:24:05.095 --> 00:24:05.635 I think. 00:24:05.970 --> 00:24:07.030 Duke: Oh, what's up with that? 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:09.299 CJ: Who's going to do it right? 00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:10.529 It comes down to it, right? 00:24:10.529 --> 00:24:18.179 This is where I, where I have the deepest admiration, uh, and inspiration and, 00:24:18.179 --> 00:24:20.439 and, and I'm Inspired by you, right? 00:24:20.439 --> 00:24:24.029 Like, because you presented it like so many different knowledges, right? 00:24:24.029 --> 00:24:27.785 And I remember early in our friendship when we're just getting to know 00:24:27.785 --> 00:24:29.895 each other, you're like, man, I'm going to present a knowledge. 00:24:29.895 --> 00:24:32.939 And I was thinking like, wow, that's crazy. 00:24:33.339 --> 00:24:38.045 Like, I can't imagine getting up and stand up in front of dozens of people in a room 00:24:38.055 --> 00:24:41.730 and, you know, and talking about this Like, I just felt, you know, everyone's 00:24:41.730 --> 00:24:43.010 scared of public speaking, right? 00:24:43.010 --> 00:24:45.020 And you got up there and you, and you killed it. 00:24:45.550 --> 00:24:47.690 And, you know, and that's what this is, right? 00:24:47.690 --> 00:24:52.807 Creative con is everybody's shot do that same thing and, become well known. 00:24:53.142 --> 00:24:53.602 Two, right? 00:24:53.612 --> 00:24:57.372 Like, I mean, it's, it's, hate to meme influencer, right? 00:24:57.392 --> 00:24:57.742 But, 00:24:58.272 --> 00:24:58.772 Duke: Yeah. 00:24:58.852 --> 00:25:00.222 CJ: you know, it's at the same time though, right? 00:25:00.222 --> 00:25:02.632 Like get up there and get in front of your peers and talk. 00:25:02.752 --> 00:25:06.542 and what it does is it helps create those relationships and that network, right? 00:25:06.542 --> 00:25:08.572 That you're going to have forever. 00:25:08.692 --> 00:25:10.587 And it just comes in handy. 00:25:11.097 --> 00:25:11.357 Right? 00:25:11.357 --> 00:25:11.637 Like, 00:25:12.367 --> 00:25:16.407 Duke: and listen, when I first started, I had zero confidence 00:25:16.567 --> 00:25:18.577 in what I was proposing. 00:25:18.637 --> 00:25:21.787 I was just like, well, let's just propose and see what happens. 00:25:22.064 --> 00:25:25.020 My 1st proposal was, do you remember a I'm sorry. 00:25:25.450 --> 00:25:26.660 Do you remember at that company 00:25:30.980 --> 00:25:32.180 CJ: yeah, that company. 00:25:32.180 --> 00:25:32.910 I remember. 00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:38.950 Duke: where I made that lightweight domain separation and we call it 00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:40.670 white picket fence separation. 00:25:40.894 --> 00:25:42.804 And I was like, this seemed pretty cool. 00:25:42.814 --> 00:25:44.454 So I'll present on that. 00:25:44.534 --> 00:25:45.284 And they accepted. 00:25:45.324 --> 00:25:49.484 I was like, what, it was just this thing I made, 00:25:49.574 --> 00:25:50.124 CJ: Yeah. 00:25:50.234 --> 00:25:54.314 And, and then I was like, Oh, then, so, so tell me, like, after they accepted 00:25:54.314 --> 00:25:56.464 that, like, did your, like, stomach drop? 00:25:56.464 --> 00:25:59.484 did you get that, that feeling that like, you're like, Oh, crap. 00:25:59.484 --> 00:26:00.714 Now I actually got to do it. 00:26:01.120 --> 00:26:03.290 Duke: a little bit. 00:26:03.380 --> 00:26:04.810 Nature made it easy for me. 00:26:04.834 --> 00:26:08.697 So I think I would have been nervous if I thought it was, you know, so I didn't 00:26:08.697 --> 00:26:10.047 think it was going to have a huge turnout. 00:26:10.047 --> 00:26:11.407 Cause it's kind of a niche case. 00:26:11.407 --> 00:26:11.687 Right. 00:26:12.202 --> 00:26:14.362 And sure enough, it was the new Orleans one. 00:26:14.362 --> 00:26:18.699 So it was basically like, everybody was hung over and I literally, 00:26:19.089 --> 00:26:20.139 I literally joked to them. 00:26:20.139 --> 00:26:21.689 I'm just like, Hey everybody. 00:26:21.689 --> 00:26:24.499 if you guys just rate me five stars right now, I'll just keep the lights 00:26:24.499 --> 00:26:25.849 down low and I'll talk real quiet. 00:26:27.099 --> 00:26:28.269 there's like eight people. 00:26:28.299 --> 00:26:30.915 And so it was kind of like, ah, it's not so bad, but it was, it was 00:26:30.935 --> 00:26:34.705 the next year where I did another one where I thought, no way people 00:26:34.705 --> 00:26:35.515 are gonna be interested in this. 00:26:35.555 --> 00:26:39.135 It was the, on politics and deployments or on politics and tools. 00:26:39.630 --> 00:26:43.110 And how to plan for the political battles that you'll face in an 00:26:43.110 --> 00:26:47.514 implementation and what, what are the main ones and how do you get over them? 00:26:47.514 --> 00:26:47.854 Right. 00:26:48.329 --> 00:26:49.379 CJ: Yeah, yeah, 00:26:49.434 --> 00:26:51.804 , Duke: okay, it'll be like last time, maybe it'll be 20 this time. 00:26:51.904 --> 00:26:52.624 You never know. 00:26:53.344 --> 00:26:57.190 And standing room only, everybody sat down. 00:26:57.190 --> 00:27:01.910 There's a whole bunch of people standing in the back, forgot my belt. 00:27:02.530 --> 00:27:04.560 So I'm like, can I keep my pants up? 00:27:09.655 --> 00:27:11.125 CJ: probably was a good thing, right? 00:27:11.125 --> 00:27:14.595 Like one, you should probably, you should, you don't want your pants to fall down 00:27:14.595 --> 00:27:16.145 in front of a bunch of people, right? 00:27:16.145 --> 00:27:18.075 Like it's, but the second thing is right. 00:27:18.075 --> 00:27:20.365 Like it gives you something else to concentrate on too. 00:27:20.529 --> 00:27:25.159 Like you're, you're, so you're, you're, you're, uh, making your brain busy. 00:27:25.159 --> 00:27:26.319 So you can't focus on it. 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:31.839 The fact that there's a standing room only and you're, you know, and you're just 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:33.469 like, I got to get through the content. 00:27:33.479 --> 00:27:34.859 I gotta make sure my pants don't fall. 00:27:35.049 --> 00:27:35.719 Duke: those pants on. 00:27:35.959 --> 00:27:36.739 CJ: Exactly. 00:27:37.719 --> 00:27:38.419 Exactly. 00:27:38.889 --> 00:27:41.939 Duke: And that one was just nature saved me on that one too. 00:27:41.949 --> 00:27:43.225 Cause I was, very nervous. 00:27:43.225 --> 00:27:46.155 it was kind of at that point, that magic interval where it's like, 3. 00:27:46.155 --> 00:27:47.055 01. 00:27:48.995 --> 00:27:52.115 People are probably gonna be wondering where you start and everybody's settled. 00:27:52.115 --> 00:27:55.375 And so now you have nothing else you can do to avoid starting. 00:27:55.900 --> 00:27:56.610 CJ: Right. 00:27:56.885 --> 00:28:02.685 Duke: so I kind of nervously asked, is it anybody's first knowledge 13 and. 00:28:03.590 --> 00:28:07.720 Like a bunch of people raised their hands and in one second I'm like, you dumbass! 00:28:08.430 --> 00:28:08.700 Like, 00:28:10.270 --> 00:28:12.160 CJ: Because everybody's first knowledge, 13. 00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:14.670 Duke: But then I realized, no! 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:16.700 It's everybody's first Knowledge 13. 00:28:16.770 --> 00:28:18.820 I got you, you didn't get me. 00:28:20.390 --> 00:28:23.820 And so that was like a killer icebreaker, like everybody was 00:28:23.820 --> 00:28:25.710 like, having a time about it. 00:28:25.710 --> 00:28:27.310 And then it was just like, ok, I got you. 00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:27.860 I got you. 00:28:28.345 --> 00:28:29.435 CJ: Right, right. 00:28:29.435 --> 00:28:30.055 And that, 00:28:31.655 --> 00:28:34.645 Duke: Ever after that, it's like, I don't care, like 300 people, 00:28:34.645 --> 00:28:36.025 a thousand people, I don't care. 00:28:37.435 --> 00:28:38.105 CJ: that's awesome. 00:28:38.415 --> 00:28:38.565 Right. 00:28:38.575 --> 00:28:40.205 Like, I'm still not quite there. 00:28:40.265 --> 00:28:42.485 , I'm still at the phase where I just do it anyway. 00:28:42.825 --> 00:28:43.155 Right. 00:28:43.155 --> 00:28:45.175 Like, you know, 00:28:45.285 --> 00:28:45.965 Duke: do though. 00:28:46.535 --> 00:28:46.935 CJ: yeah. 00:28:46.935 --> 00:28:48.335 Like, I just get up on stage. 00:28:48.335 --> 00:28:50.515 I get in front of people and I just. 00:28:50.845 --> 00:28:51.695 Do it anyway. 00:28:51.705 --> 00:28:55.255 And, you know, and at the end of the day, right, like it always comes out well, 00:28:55.455 --> 00:29:00.679 but I'm always like scared that it's not going to but you just get on with it. 00:29:00.679 --> 00:29:00.909 Right? 00:29:00.909 --> 00:29:03.985 Like, you know, I've got a lot of British friends and, it's always 00:29:04.015 --> 00:29:06.655 kind of like that stiff upper lip and you just get on with it. 00:29:06.925 --> 00:29:07.155 Right. 00:29:07.155 --> 00:29:09.285 And so that's what I do. 00:29:09.810 --> 00:29:15.107 Duke: If I, if I've ever been like nervous or something, like I'm stuttering or I'm 00:29:15.127 --> 00:29:20.227 inarticulate or didn't come out right, I will immediately take ownership of it. 00:29:21.122 --> 00:29:21.902 CJ: Yeah, yeah, 00:29:22.107 --> 00:29:22.507 Duke: know what I mean? 00:29:22.507 --> 00:29:23.857 And just say, Oh, that was awkward. 00:29:23.857 --> 00:29:24.697 Ha ha ha. 00:29:24.697 --> 00:29:25.357 what are they going to do? 00:29:25.357 --> 00:29:26.647 They can't think badly of you. 00:29:26.647 --> 00:29:27.577 You thought about it too. 00:29:27.577 --> 00:29:28.817 Like, we're all in this together. 00:29:29.722 --> 00:29:30.022 CJ: yeah, 00:29:30.227 --> 00:29:31.807 Duke: Let's laugh at that dumb ass thing that happened. 00:29:32.382 --> 00:29:33.342 CJ: well, absolutely. 00:29:33.342 --> 00:29:33.532 Right. 00:29:33.532 --> 00:29:34.922 Like, so I got a, I got a buddy. 00:29:34.932 --> 00:29:38.729 He said, um, and I forget, I think he got this from somebody else, but it's your 00:29:38.729 --> 00:29:42.989 job as the speaker, . Is to ensure that you're delivering the quality content. 00:29:43.229 --> 00:29:46.289 It's the audience's job to make sure that they're receiving it. 00:29:46.874 --> 00:29:47.144 Right. 00:29:47.144 --> 00:29:49.124 So, so don't do their job for them, right? 00:29:49.124 --> 00:29:50.294 Like just do what you do. 00:29:50.564 --> 00:29:52.964 Focus on delivering the qu the, the, the content. 00:29:52.964 --> 00:29:56.474 Focus on delivering it in a quality manner and the rest of it shakes out. 00:29:57.002 --> 00:30:00.202 Duke: have yourself a few little like quips to like anticipate doing 00:30:00.202 --> 00:30:03.242 something wrong and then just have like a fancy one liner you can shoot out 00:30:03.767 --> 00:30:04.187 CJ: Yeah. 00:30:04.657 --> 00:30:04.837 Yeah. 00:30:04.837 --> 00:30:04.987 That 00:30:05.082 --> 00:30:05.242 Duke: time. 00:30:05.272 --> 00:30:05.692 Next time. 00:30:05.692 --> 00:30:06.902 I'm going to rent the premium lifts. 00:30:09.692 --> 00:30:12.852 Or I trip over something like, did you see that thing jump out at me? 00:30:16.677 --> 00:30:19.257 CJ: Plus, you know, a little bit, a little bit of what I've learned, right? 00:30:19.257 --> 00:30:20.847 Like a little bit of flubbing, right? 00:30:20.847 --> 00:30:23.697 Humanizes you with the audience, which makes them more receptive 00:30:23.697 --> 00:30:25.137 to the, to the content, right? 00:30:25.252 --> 00:30:25.552 Duke: sure. 00:30:25.552 --> 00:30:27.602 There's no like, there's no bombing it, right? 00:30:27.622 --> 00:30:32.342 Like, it's so, it's so hard to bomb these things. 00:30:32.632 --> 00:30:34.682 CJ: Yeah, the last thing to do, right? 00:30:34.682 --> 00:30:38.122 Is that you're doing something that everybody else in that 00:30:38.122 --> 00:30:41.975 audience wishes they were doing, Wishes that they had guts to do. 00:30:42.485 --> 00:30:45.525 So when you're up there on stage talking to them, they're all 00:30:45.525 --> 00:30:48.500 looking at you thinking like, man, I wish I could do that. 00:30:49.260 --> 00:30:49.590 Duke: Yup. 00:30:49.950 --> 00:30:53.220 That was me at knowledge 11 and I presented the next year. 00:30:53.770 --> 00:30:56.520 CJ: boom, it was like, I wish I could do that. 00:30:56.520 --> 00:30:57.360 And then you're like, you know what? 00:30:57.360 --> 00:30:58.280 I can do that. 00:30:58.510 --> 00:30:59.640 I will do that. 00:31:00.030 --> 00:31:00.800 Duke: absolutely. 00:31:01.370 --> 00:31:02.290 I think that's a good place to leave it. 00:31:02.290 --> 00:31:02.560 Huh? 00:31:03.170 --> 00:31:03.550 CJ: Yeah. 00:31:03.550 --> 00:31:03.960 Yeah. 00:31:03.990 --> 00:31:04.500 Let's leave it. 00:31:04.540 --> 00:31:08.140 Uh, we'll leave, uh, links to create a con, a call for content 00:31:08.420 --> 00:31:11.800 below, as well as some good gen AI stuff and every other link 00:31:12.940 --> 00:31:13.140 Duke: All right. 00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:13.790 Thanks folks. 00:31:14.030 --> 00:31:14.680 See you on the next one. 00:31:15.530 --> 00:31:16.060 CJ: later.