A discussion about Fred Moten and C.B. Bush
with guests: Glynda White and Erica Vital-Lazare - professors at College of Southern Nevada (CSN)
Fred Moten is the finest critical mind on the planet. He is a Las Vegas "almost" native who was mentored by Q.B. Bush, one of the fathers of the Westside community. Glynda White discussed Moten and herself around the Q.B. Bush family dinner table. Erica Vital-Lazare talked about teaching Moten's books in her CSN literature classes.
Show Notes
What is Soul to Soul?
Soul to Soul - Universal Ideas for a Brighter Tomorrow
This show is a free-for-all of positive energy that will include discussions about books, music, politics. books, food, COVID-19, oral interviews, books, and Las Vegas History. I will invite people from the community, all college and university campuses, businesses, and organizations for chats to connect hearts and souls throughout the city.
The following is special
programming sponsored by public
radio K, u and v. 91.5. The
content of soul to soul does not
reflect the views or opinions of
91.5 Jazz and more. The
University of Nevada Las Vegas,
or the Board of Regents of the
Nevada System of Higher
Education.
This is soul to soul, universal
ideas for a brighter tomorrow.
Today, my guests are Glenda
white, CSN Professor of Law and
Erica for tall Lazar. I'm never
pronounced Erica's name exactly
right. And she is also a
professor at CSN English
literature. Erica, tell me what
you actually teach.
I teach creative writing. And I
also teach literature course
that I'm quite proud of its
marginal voices in dystopian
literature.
That's why I can never get it
right. So today we are going to
talk about one of the most
critical thinkers in America
today. And we are going to talk
about this person friend
mountain, because he is from Las
Vegas. He grew up in the west
side. So we're going to start
with Glenda because Glenda was a
friend of his four years. So
Glenda first start by telling us
who QB Bush is.
Okay. Well, I think it's safe to
say that QB Bush was the
community man, that he lived on
D Street for over 60 years, that
he was a mentor, a father, a
brother and husband, not only to
his immediate family, but to the
community as a whole. You could
always stop by he will be
sitting in the yard when it's
warm enough. He sold the pecans
for Christmas, you know how we'd
like to make sweet potato pies.
And so he was really the the go
to person always there to lend a
helping hand. And I think the
most important things were the
dinners around the QB Bush
family table. That's where you
got lectured, educated,
reprimanded chastised and just
given some really good advice
about life about Las Vegas,
about blackness, and most
importantly, what contributions
were you going to make, to make
things better?
Wonderful. I really appreciate
that. Now, you are one of those
children who became one of the
god children in that household.
But also there was another play
brother, and his name was Fred
Moten. Tell me about Fred.
Well, yes, Fred is I say my
little brother, but he's quite a
bit taller, taller and a little
thicker. I might say he won't
appreciate that. But I met Mike
Davis, who is another Nevada in
Las Vegas, and he knew be
Bernese Mountain, and she had a
son, Fred Charles Moulton. And
so when I came to Vegas, and was
younger, and we were out all the
time, running around, we just
met Mike at some place, probably
some disco club or something
like that. And we became
friends. And as we develop that
friendship, of course, we would
talk about different things. He
would take me out to the West
Side Community. And then he told
me he wanted me to meet, as he
called her Ms. Mountain. Ms.
Moulton was a school teacher.
She taught Mike in elementary
school, junior high, high school
o'clock, and even I think a
class was sold out at UNLV. And
so naturally, when I met Ms
Moulton, which is what I used to
call her until about the late
80s. And one day she said to me,
don't call me Ms. Moulton
anymore. And I said, Okay, well,
what do you want me to call you?
And she was so emphatic, I don't
know. But don't call me Mrs.
Moulton anymore. So I was like,
gosh, you know, I was taught to
be respectful of elders and all
and I didn't want to call him is
bronies. And so I decided, I'm
going to call you b. And so
there began the name of B
Moulton or B Jenkins and
everything. And so when I met
her and as time went on, of
course, I met Fred, who was
about 10 or 11. And she was so
very active in politics and
education, and she had to do a
lot of traveling. You So a lot
of times Mike will keep for it
or stay over on Rico street.
That's where they lived on Rico.
I believe it was 401 Rico
Street. And so then after she
met me, and she had to travel to
Carson and Seattle and all
around, I began to keep free. So
I am also the babysitter, as
well as the big sister. And
that's how I met young, Mr.
Moulton.
Now, from there, in classrooms,
all over the country, people are
teaching what Fred is writing.
Erica, tell me about you and
your class. And what you talk
about when you talk about Fred
Moten what is the favorite book?
What are some of the ideas that
you pass along?
Oh, wow, I'm still caught up in
the story, I'm still sitting at
the table. Getting all this
enrichment that comes from that
community love, and I'm thinking
about what a wonderful
laboratory that is, for a mind
that comes out of that community
with all of that love, and all
of that education, about what it
is to be a human among other
human beings. And so that's
primarily what I teach in my
marginal voices. In dystopian
literature course, it is about
not only marginalized
identities, black, brown, non
binary identities, it is about
what you do with that particular
humanity, so that you not only
survive, but you thrive. And
that you also are able to be
equipped, intellectually,
emotionally, to also see to
intend to the survival of your
community. So with that in mind,
what I love, and I just
introduce my students to
snippets of Red Mountain, from
the under commons, fugitive
planning and black study,
because what I'm hoping to do,
and I don't know if my dean will
ever hear this, but what I'm
hoping to do is to plant seeds
of insurgency. And I know that
something you want to talk
about, you know, that trilogy
that comes out of consent not to
be a single being, this is
really what I want to impart,
yes. How to analyze and critique
literature, how to really engage
with a short story so that you
can really see the theme and how
it also reflects your own
particular experience. Yes, I'm
doing all those things, Dean if
you're listening, but I'm also
hoping that I get young minds
off the grid. And I think this
is what Fred Moten really is
able to do so beautifully. And
though his study is about black
social life, and theories of
blackness, and therefore, just
wonderful theories about again,
not only surviving but thriving
without particular histories.
But he's also deeply I think,
mining, investigating and making
it possible for us to see how we
are beyond measure, we can be
informed by our histories,
informed by the histories of
others, and not bound by
So Erica, this is probably one
of the most complex books I've
ever read. I'm reading two books
by him. I'm reading blacker and
blur and the under commons, I am
learning to read again, I am
learning to think in a new way.
I am learning to be patient.
Because this sentence is so
complex. I have to tear it
apart. I can't finish this book
for the next six months. So I am
learning to read all over again.
How do you help me understand
Fred Moten. Glenda How do you
help me understand what I'm
doing what I'm reading?
Well, let me say this. Fred
Moulton has been shaped by
Kingsland, Arkansas, with his
grandparents and of course with
his mom and from that kings on
Arkansas chain, Las Vegas and in
Las Vegas. Fred Moulton has
followed around as I did when I
met be to League of Women Voters
meetings, of course they used to
be held in her basement and we
used to sit on the steps and
listen in on the meetings and
everything to all types of
community political NAACP
meetings, to the blues, to the
jazz to the readings of all
kinds of books to some travel
internationally. And I'll never
forget when they shared with me
that they had been into Africa,
and what it was like many, many
years ago, because his father at
one time worked, I believe it
was paying in airlines and
everything. So sitting around
cubies table being, we used to
say you're dragging us
everywhere to all of these
meetings, going over to this
house, getting out in the
community, walking and talking
to those people, in the houses
in the churches, molded shaped
Fred Moulton be who you are,
never forget to look back, and
to lend a helping hand, you have
an opportunity, you need to pass
that on to others.
Thank you. Like I said, I'm
learning to read again. And I'm
doing it on a level that I've
never done before. Erica,
without frightening your
students. How do you explain the
terminology even that he uses in
the books
for me when I read Fred Milton's
work, it's almost as though you
are entering into another
dimension. So I'm going in and I
have to suspend and I love the
way that you described that
experience as learning to read
again, I have to suspend certain
expectations, because even as
his philosophy of fugitive at
being a fugitive, right and
escape from the norm, I think he
writes in this way, and the
music. So when I had just a
snippet of the under Commons,
which, you know, I think has
some moments that are very
comprehensive, meant to be read
by all is all of his work is I
advise my students and I also
have to dispense that advice to
myself, you know, because you've
got this title of Professor you
supposed to know everything,
when he read it, you're not
supposed to be confounded. But I
advise my students to take the
unknown with a sense of joy and
pleasure, read as though you're
listening to jazz, the music
that comes through in the
language. So even if you don't
know a term, what I advise them
in which I follow my own advice,
this counsel, circle it, but
just let the music play, let it
play, and go back to it. Once
you've completed the page or the
passage, go back to what you did
not know. And then reread it
with that new knowledge. And
even more notes will bring for
you then I consider myself, you
know reading is the water I swim
in right. But I'm going into
like some water that gets a
little little turbulent, right?
But you start to shape, you
know, form those muscles and
take on like the rhythm of the
water. When you're reading Fred
Moten wonderful,
and he talks about sculpture,
artist, writers, philosophers.
And the music comes from all
genres. He embraces classical,
hip hop, all forms of rap. Oh,
my God is just so eye opening
and head opening mentally to
read him. So ladies, I just love
that I am. I have been
introduced to somebody
different. So the last interview
I conducted was with a Mrs.
Davis, not the Davis that you
just talked about two days ago,
I was in her house. I said, Do
you have anything else you'd
like to add to this interview?
She said, I want to talk about
my favorite teacher. She said, I
went to the west side school at
one time, and my favorite
teacher was Mrs. Moulton almost
fell out of the chair. And she
said because she finally told us
how to be proud of being black.
And she explained it and she
talked us through what it was to
grow up on the west side, to
embrace everything that we were
learning here on the west side.
And to use it, I was just
floored. And then I told Mrs.
Davis about Fred, and she just
she was so thrilled. Her face
lit up. She said his mother that
his mother, his mother taught
him that. So it was just
wonderful. So anything else
about Fred and Moulton and his
writing that you'd like to cover
before we come back to the west
side in a different way?
Well, I just have to say, you
know, Glenda is mentioned in his
really big first critical book
in the break, he gives you an
acknowledgement. And you notice
that within those
acknowledgments of the ladies
from the west side, I mean, just
reading that I already you can
tell him already fan girling.
But the way he loves the voices
of women, the way he pays so
much honor, respect, and fuse
with so much joy, that he was
able to sit with his mother, you
know, that that book of poetry
be Jenkins, just the way in
which he is able to acknowledge
the string of that matrilineal
presence. For me, that just
expands the reverence I have for
this man, because he hasn't only
become the scholar and great
thinker and humanitarian and
artist, that he is, without
having that collective of women
around him. And he knows it, and
not says so much about him as a
human being.
So this complex thinker came
from the historic west side
right here in Las Vegas. Why is
that not surprising to us?
It is not surprising to me at
all. And I didn't even get to
the west side until the early
70s. But the bits that I began
to pick up and the time that I
had there during those days, and
even now, that's what the west
side did. That's what B Jenkins
did. That's what Eloise Bush
did. Lavon Lewis did, Mabel
Hogan, and shall I say Alice key
even though so these women Thank
you, Erica, these women shaped
Fred and picked up on me at 21
years old, and began to help
reshape helped me grow more
shaped the mike Davis's shape,
the people next door shaped the
kids at Madison Elementary
School, these women. That's why
he is where he is today. That's
why I'm not surprised. Because
just what I got in coming in, in
the early 70s, has helped
reshape me mold and me to grow
even further, and take another
path.
Wonderful. So Erica, could you
name some of his books, I see
that you have a whole stack over
there. Could you give us the
names? And could you tell us
where he is now and what he's
doing the trilogy
that is sort of like the
foundation of a lot of his ideas
and investigations. Because I
don't think his ideas are ever
complete. You know, he's always
willing to see more, and
therefore say more. But that
trilogy that comes under the
consent not to be a single thing
to being a single thing that's
black and Blurr was the first in
that trilogy. And then the
universal machine, which the
universal machine takes a look
at three philosophers that he's
really putting in conversation
with one another. Hannah Arendt,
Manuel livingness. And of
course, Franz Fanon, which is
the key to a lot of race theory.
Right, the rebel and see her and
the last one is stolen lives.
And so that's a pushing back to
the idea that in blackness,
we've had something stolen, that
can never be reclaimed. Now, the
fact that it was stolen, that
something has been stolen, I
don't think that's really an
issue or question. But the
reclaiming, I think, is really
what Fred is interested in. So
yes, those are three very
pivotal works. And then the
under commons, in the break is
just a beautiful the celebration
of of voices and images of the
black aesthetic, and little
edges is just, I actually knew
of Fred Moten first through his
portray. And then my friend, I
ILA, or hipped me to the essay
work, and I was like, Oh, my
goodness, and that's what,
that's what this friendship and
what Fred Moten said so
beautifully, during a trim and
Trinity Church, Sunday sermon,
you have to pick you have to see
it, it's on YouTube, and I think
it was from January 2020. And he
talked about, Kingsland ark, and
saw so beautifully and his
grandfather, and when his
grandfather was ill, and he had
this riotous gorgeous, you know,
truck garden, and how the
community particularly neighbors
came in and helped to attend to
this garden when his grandfather
was ill. And for all of this
hard work, they didn't want
anything in return. And the
mother of that family when she
refused anything, you know,
because proud people will at
least say take something you
did. She said, This is how we
fellowship. And so turning what
is usually just an abstract noun
into that verb, I think is what
Fred Moten does. This is how he
fellowships, which is to say, my
friend, letting me know that
this poet that I so loved was
also an essayist. This is her
way of fellowshipping. With me
this conversation is the way
that we fellowship I think Fred
Moten he loves to begin
conversation that does not end
further inquiry, where are we
going from this? So I spoke with
his name as though I know. I
have yet to meet this gentleman
I plan to, but he's so intimate
in the language, and so free in
what he wants to give you, which
is freedom.
Wonderful. So the next time he's
in town, of course, we have to
meet him Glinda.
Well, I will certainly certainly
make that happen.
So please tell us where he is
now and what he's doing.
Okay, so now he is at NYU. And
he's in that department of
literature and African American,
and all those things that go
together with that. He is still
writing. I am hopeful that he
may be here later in the summer.
That was one of our
conversations, your things will
break. I know he's doing some
travel. But he had told me that
he was going to try to minimize
some of that now. He has two, I
think teenage boys now. So now
there's a different role to
play. So he may not be traveling
quite as much. But he is in New
York at NYU. Both he and nor is
His wife at NYU. Wonderful.
So Glinda. Do you have any
closing remarks about QB that
you'd like to offer?
I was at QB Bush's house on
Sunday. It was Mother's Day. The
kids are still there. I make it
a point to go to the west side.
But I make it a specific point
to go to QB Bush's house and sit
around the dinner table.
Although the dinner table is
long, and chairs are empty, but
we still sit, we still talk
sometimes cry. We still laugh
and remember when all those
chairs will feel with good
conversation. Good people. Good
thoughts and directions. And let
me not leave out debates and
arguments.
Good. I was always welcome.
Those make the divinity. Yes.
So that's that's what I would
say.
Wonderful. Thank you, Erica, any
closing remarks about the west
side? I'd like for you to talk
about how the west side is
beginning to change now. And you
will you're with an organization
that's happened to do some
things there. Would you like to
just say a few words,
I see the west side as becoming
a future place that's informed
by the past. The fact that we
celebrate so many great
performers and spaces of
performance, that have been a
part of that history. I am also
excited by the fact that we can
celebrate the intellect that
comes out of the west side,
along with Fred right now being
it you know, NYU in New York. We
have a young artist working in
tech and diversifying the tech
space and the arts in tech.
Salah may also guy who was also
from the west side, Rose
McKinney. James is not from the
west side, but worked on the
west side with Miss Ruby Duncan,
and she's in the renewable
energy field. So when I think of
the west side, I think of all
the ways of celebratory
blackness, right what we see
what has been hyper visible so
beautifully. But I'm also
excited about the things that
run those spaces and how
blackness contributes and
propels pushes forward ideas for
the future of that space. So
abodo, which is the nonprofit
that I founded with A good
friend, Brian dies in which you
are so blessedly on the board of
clay tea. We are hoping to be a
part of that coming future.
Wonderful. Any closing remarks?
Glinda I see you taking notes
over there furiously. So is
there something else that you
wanted to mention?
I just want to say that I grew
up in Tennessee, I came to Las
Vegas, and I grew up again. Yes,
because of all the names that we
have mentioned, and so many more
that we didn't. And the West
Side certainly helped reshape me
and it plays a vital role in the
future for prosperity and ever
after.
Yes, I agree with that. When I
started going to the west side,
I was much older than that. I
won't even say how old but my
life was reshaped completely. So
ladies, thank you so much for
this first episode of soul to
soul. Soul to soul is about
universal ideas for a brighter
tomorrow. Thank you so much.
You've been listening to special
programming sponsored by public
radio K, u and v 91.5. The
content of this program does not
reflect the views or opinions of
91.5 Jazz and more, the
University of Nevada Las Vegas,
or the Board of Regents of the
Nevada System of Higher
Education.