Show Notes
Intro:
The Villages, doing drugs late in life, people named Dennis.
Let Me Run This By You: Do you have evidence of the benefits of letting go? Seeing what the nets bring in.
Interview: We talk to
John Cabrera about transitioning from art to theatre, auditioning at Juilliard and TTS with the dramatic monologue du jour (Equus), the casting pool, mushroom mishaps, Merrily We Roll Along,
The Lovers.
FULL TRANSCRIPTSpeaker 1 (
00:00:08):
I'm Jen Bosworth from me this and I'm Gina Pulice. We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand it. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all. We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? People with problems, visibly proud with my heart and my eyes.
Well, speaking of old people, you've got a watch. Tell me about this. I looked it up and I'm like, what is even happening here? Okay. Do you know what The Villages are? The Villages is a retirement community in Florida. It's the largest retirement community, definitely in the United States, maybe in the world. I'm not sure. And it has 130,000 people live there. Oh, dictated. Well, it's not technically gated, but it's considered a gated community and they made a documentary. Apparently the guy who made it, it's very young. He's not on social media. I can't find him. Lawrence Oppenheimer or Lance, Lance Oppenheimer, Oppenheimer, Oppenheimer anyway, beautifully shot documentary, but also just fascinating. It Chronicles these three or four people, including a couple where the, the husband decided, I guess maybe later in life that he wanted to start using drugs because he wanted to expand his mind.
And they never got, they never really drilled down on the drugs that he was using, but he got arrested for having marijuana and a $5 worth of cocaine. Oh, he was doing drugs. He was really doing drugs. And, but he was my favorite because his whole thing is he just wanted to get to a spiritual place quickly. That is amazing. And so there's these amazing shots of him. One of them, everybody drives golf carts everywhere. And one of these shots, he's just screaming, driving headlong into a sprinkler in his, uh, golf cart. Cause he wanted the feeling of the sprinkler on his face. Um, I love him already. I love him. He's amazing. Although it did make me think twice because I've always said if I live to be 90 or 95, I'm going to start doing heroin because you know, I'm going to go out anyway and I would never do it otherwise, but this is making me rethink it because it really took a toll on his wife.
She was really, you know, she said he was always eccentric, but then he, he became downright unusual. He became William S Burroughs William S Burroughs. Yeah. By the end of the documentary, he had stopped doing the drugs. You imagine if he's dead, he becomes a recovering addict. Like he's, he's like 85 years old. Um, so that was one couple. And then there was a, uh, uh, Oh my God, there's this man. Of course his name is dentist. Every, every dentists out there as a ne'er do well, this guy didn't live in the villages. He lived in his van and he was hoping to snag a rich lady so that his whole thing was about, and there's this scene and it's just so poetic. He's lying to, I dunno how this, uh, cinematographer got in the van lying down on the makeshift bed in his van, looking up, no shirt on, looking up at the ceiling saying, you know, I just want a good looking gal. Who's he must have said it three times a good looking gal. Who's easy on the eyes who won't embarrass me
God. And I'm like. Call of you. You live in a van down by the river, in the van.
And you're saying that you need a woman. I mean, you don't even have this woman. You don't even know this woman and you're already criticizing her for embarrassing. You, he, he finally finds one of these women that he had known before and she knows the deal. She knows he just wants a place to live. And he starts saying, it seems to be going right. And then he starts saying, listen, you can either have comfort or freedom. And I just don't know if I can be, uh, I don't, I don't know who to be tied down.
Oh God, go get back in your van and get the hell out of here.
Is that us go drive that van off of a short pier? I mean, the world does not need another
Dennis. No, no. Dennis, Dennis is a great movie. I think you would really like it. I'm going to watch it. I was, I was, I'm going to watch it last night. And then I thought, Oh, I better write. So I did write something, but, but, but I love the idea and I love the idea of, and that's great fodder for scripts, right? Of, of a guy who lives in the he's a drug addict who decides to become a drug user at 84 or whatever, and decide, and then decides not so much like after he has some run-ins with the law, probably
Friends with the law, they even had video of him in court. And the judge saying he was actually such a really nice guy, but he got real obstreperous in the court. And the judge said, you are the rudest person I have ever had to deal with because he decided that he was going to represent himself and just kept saying $5 worth of cookie. And it's only $5 for cocaine. And the judge is like, I don't care how many dollars it's it's a crime, sir. Anyway, it's worth watching. It's called it's for people who don't know it's called not just like heaven, not far from heaven, not heaven's gate,
Some kind of having something like a little piece of heaven. It is called
Some kind of heaven. So you had it
Wonderful. Let me run this by you.
So I was thinking about, um, this idea of letting go and seeing what the nets bring in. Okay. And I have done that for the last I've only done it for the last four days and the results are kind of astonishing. And like I was going to add, well yes, in terms of, so I said, you know what, I'm going to do that. And immediately my anxiety about not just writing, but acting started lessening. Cause I, you know, for, you know, this and listeners might, if they're, you know, whatever like that I have had struggled with, um, like, um, stage fright, you know? And, and as I said, I'm just going to let go and see what the nuts bring in. I've done a lot of work on myself and on my career, my anxiety about acting decreased in terms of my stage, thinking of negative fantasies about screwing up on set or something.
Right. And then I got this audition for, um, a pilot that of course shoots in Chicago. And it's a recurrent character dude, crazy fun, but it really wants you to live in Chicago. And I'm not going to ladies and gentlemen, but I, but the character is this wild, crazy alcoholic mother. That is awesome. Anyway, the point is, do you have evidence in your life? So I have evidence now that when I quote, let go, and it's not even something I'm doing in the world, it's a mental shift. Do you have, uh, evidence for our listeners and for each other that when you have let go of the idea of something, something wonderful happens. That's my big, big question this morning. It's a big,
It's a great question. And the, the automatic answer is yes. Although now I'm trying to comb my failing memory. That's another topic for another day for examples. Um, yeah, I mean, I just know that whenever I find myself with a stranglehold on something and I usually actually notice it physically, like I I'm physically tense trying to hold onto whatever it is that that's not where it is and I have to stop and I have to relax my shoulders and I have to take a deep breath. Um, so just in the overarching sense of even if I'm driving and I find myself, you know, it, it doesn't work and it's better just to, to, to relax and come back to your center. But it kind of does tie into the thing that I was going to run by you, which is about, can you cultivate? Because I, as we were you and I had an offline conversation about me feeling like I need to make up for lost time.
And so I would say, I am not where you are with, with the, um, career stuff. I hope I, I hope I aspire to be where you are, because I think I'm still very much in the frame of mind of like, it's not happening fast enough. It's not going, it's not going, it's not shooting up in the right direction. It's not, it's not, it's not instead of what it is, which is going great. Actually, you know, like it was only one year. We only started this podcast like three months ago, four months ago, we only started writing together a year ago, a little over a year ago. So like why the rush? But I do feel, I do feel this pressure of rush. I think I mostly feel it because I feel guilty that I'm spending all of this time working on something that is not earning me any money. There you go. The same time as my husband is going to work every day, working as hard as he possibly can so that I can be at home working for no money. I feel a lot of guilt about it.
That makes sense. I, that is a real thing. And I, that has to contribute right to the making up for lost time feeling. Um, I also think that it's interesting. I see the story that comes to mind and we can totally cut this if you're like, no way. Bosworth is the story of your was then your boyfriend. And now your husband's showing up in a fedora with a cigar in the rain. Once you had let go of the idea of being in a relationship with him. And he came back in the middle of the night. I have this, a story in my head about that because it's very combative.
No, it's completely true. It was raining. He was wearing a fedora. He knocked on my door and the, there wasn't quite the middle of the night. It was really late at night unannounced. I had no idea. And I had been, yeah, he broke up with me. I was devastated for two weeks. And then I just went on a tear. I started dating left right. And center. And I think that's what he thought he was going to do. And instead he just started regretting his decision and yeah. And as soon as I let go of him, he showed up
And then, and then there's the choice, right? So like when we let go of something and it shows back up, do we choose to let it in? Or do we say actually no I'm. And I think that that's also a very interesting thing. It's like when I do let go of my stranglehold on my, at an audition, a big audition or something, whatever comes back, do I, how do I am, do I embrace it? Do I, how do I approach it? And I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. Self-tape it's going to be super what it is. This character's really, really great in some ways. And I love it and I'm going to do it, but I could say, you know what, I'm going to choose not to. It's just interesting to see when the nets come back in, do we throw the fish back out to the sea or do we eat the fish
Well, but wait a minute, why would you be seeing what the nets bring in and then be rejecting?
I think that's also a product of fear. Like a lot of times I see I've seen with people around me and former clients and things like that, that the thing that they, if they haven't, if we haven't really worked on an issue, if I haven't really addressed the issue of why the fear's there in the first place or something, I'm, I'm apt to sabotage it. When the nets bring in good fish, I'm apt to say those fish aren't big enough. They're not good enough. They don't smell. Right. And instead, now I'm really at 46 taking me to 46 to be like, no, I like what this, you know, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm going to accept the fish that comes back in my net. People are gonna be like, what is wrong with Jane? Why is she obsessed with fish? But the point is the stranglehold, right? The stranglehold is real tempting because we're a do-do society. And, um, especially as women, especially as all kinds of things you could say, especially for, but what I'm saying is for me and what you did too, you thought, Oh, well, when the, the fish came back in the middle of the night wearing a fedora, you were like, you, did you have to think about it? Or was it an immediate thing?
Uh, Lauren collection is that he, I invited him inside to talk and I was just like, listen, whatever. I don't remember the content, but I said, here's what went wrong or, and here's, and I'm kind of moving on. Um, I think it came down to, he just said, will you give me another chance? I mean, I think he was very, uh, earnest about the fact that he was owning up to the fact that he let me go, not the other way around and that he,
Yeah, he made a mistake. That's a great thing that he was able to do because can you imagine if pride or whatever had gotten in the way of that, try and look, you could have said no way. You could have said, I'm, I'm done with this, but it worked out and it, thank gosh it did, but I just, you know, it's being open, I guess, being open to things, looking a different way than I think they should look
That for sure is I can really relate to my, my, having a tendency to reject some, that whole thing. I wouldn't be a part of any club that would have me as a member once somebody does accept me. I'm like, but why what's wrong with you that you want to accept me? And that's something I would very much like to get over me. I have the same thing. I don't have it to that degree with other things, but I can totally relate today on the podcast we have JP Cabrera, John Cabrera. John is a writer, a director, a performer, and a tech entrepreneur. And JP is just a near and dear old friend of mine. We had sort of lost touch over the last decade or two and we're, we've reconnected. And I think when you listen to this interview, you're going to know exactly why I think he's so hilarious and special and wonderful. So please enjoy our interview with John Cabrera. Oh, interesting. I loved how you tied monetization right there at the end. Very
Good.
Anyway, congratulations, John Cabrera, you survived theater school.
I did. Yeah.
So most, most people that we talked to really haven't thought very much about theater school in the last 20 years, but you are really close with a bunch of people who you went to school with. So that might not be the case for you.
Oh, it is the case. I, I really haven't thought much about theater school at all. I mean, I don't think any of us do we're, we're all, we're all, you know, I mean, we're all really close friends still. We see each other all the time and like, might we might throw out a theater school reference like once every three or four years.
Wow. Okay. All right. Yeah, because your relationship has totally evolved and it's it's. Yeah,
Not really. No. I mean, even after theater school, we like, you know, we, we, a bunch of us started a theater company together and then everybody went off to Los Angeles and then that our identity kind of was shaped by. But the things that we were doing out here either individually, like, you know, the shows that we were trying to, that we were on or that we were, that we were working, um, yeah. That we were working on or the stuff that we were doing collectively, like, you know, making a short film or, or, uh, or you know, something doing a play. Um, well, we didn't really do any place, but you know, yeah. You got it.
I get it. I get it. Did you audition for a bunch of schools? Did you always know you wanted to go to a conservatory? What was that whole?
Okay, so I, so I went to a magnet school, uh, for commercial art. I auditioned for, uh, for, uh, uh, like odd to, I interviewed for magnet school in Miami for commercial art. That would take me away from my neck of woods. Um, and put me on the path to being an artist because as a kid, I liked to draw and, and, and all of that. And so I had like a little portfolio of stuff and we use that to get me into this magnet school. And I was there for ninth and 10th grade. Uh, my area of the city ninth grade actually was the last year of middle school. But in this other area of the city, it was the first year of high school. That was a little odd. So all my friends were still in middle school and I was like going to this high school.
I was there for ninth and 10th grade. Um, and I found very, I, I discovered very quickly that I was, that I was not anywhere close to as good of an artist as every other kid there in the class with me. And so that kind of bugged me a lot, you know, I just, I felt, I just didn't feel, I just didn't feel good enough. And while I was, and then I also like, you know, really missing my friends a lot, you know, because I was going to this other school and, but then, you know, afterschool and on the weekends, I was hanging out with all the people from, and I was making new friends at the school, but it was just really, it was tough. And in my 10th grade, like in 10th grade, I took just randomly a drama class. Um, just as one of the electives, like a CRE, like in ninth grade I had taken a creative writing class and, um, really like the teacher.
And then in ninth and 10th grade, she was teaching a drama class. So I took her drama class and I just really fell in love with it and felt like I was really good at it. So big thing. Right. Because I felt like I wasn't very good at this thing that I was there at there, or I, it wasn't that I didn't think I was very good. I just didn't think I was nearly as good as of these other people. So I just felt like I was at the back of the pack, but in this drama class, I really like, I felt like I was, I was good at it. And, um, and I really enjoyed it. My sister also sort of side note to it. My sister is, uh, is, uh, was well, he was a dancer and was up in ballet for very long time.
So she, at this time was a little girl in ballet school and they were doing a production of the Nutcracker tracker and they needed boys to play townspeople. So I did that and then got my first taste of like a massive auditorium of people applauding you. Right. So that nixed with like this drama class that I was taking. And at the end of my S my 10th grade year, I was like, I don't want to go here anymore. Like, I want to go back to, I want to go back to like my real high school. And I, you know, I want to see all my friends and, and, and I kind of want to do theater now. And my mom, of course, we had pumped a lot of money into the whole art thing was disappointed, a little resistant at first, but then was like, yeah, let's do it.
So I moved back to, so I went back to my normal high school and I got really, really into that drama department there, which was like a really big, kind of big deal. Like the school won a lot of awards, went to these big theater conferences and all of that stuff. So it was actually really like suddenly really exciting. And I created, there was this little community that I, I, um, sort of was a part of there. And so by the end of high school, I was just so clear that that's what I wanted to do. And my, my, like I was set on Julliard, right. Like a lot of the, um, you know, the high school kids I'd like, that was my thing. My sister at that point was already not, uh, she was already living in New York and she was dancing at the school of American ballet, which is right next door to Juilliard.
So in my mind it was kind of like, Oh my gosh, perfect. I'm going to like, go move to New York. And, and now my sister like will be like right next door or the dorm room next to me and all of this stuff, just like really like, imagine that. And so I, so I like audition so that, and then I also got started getting like, you know, uh, I got DePaul sent something in the mail and if the college sends something in the mail, and so there was a big, there was going to be like a big, uh, audition in New York city for all of those different schools. And so I, uh, and so, yeah, my mom, like, you know, we, we went to New York and, and, uh, and audition for all of them Juilliard included, which was like the one that I really wanted to get into. And yes, I do. That's why I'm laughing. Uh, so I, you know, for Juilliard, I had to, I had to prepare a Shakespeare piece and I think also a contemporary piece for DePaul and Ithaca. It was just a contemporary piece. And so the contemporary piece that I picked was from, was a monologue from that play Equis, um, which like, you know, back then was just like, Oh, that's super you're, you're like really cutting edge there. You, you know, doing Equis, like every, uh, every like third kid did Equis for,
I think it's come up actually three times. So, so, so
I did act with it, but then for my Shakespeare piece, um, I, I did Mark Anthony from Julius Caesar and, uh, I went into my Juilliard audition and I did it. And, um, I didn't, I didn't know, you know, British accent,
Very, very,
Very, and effective. And I mean, I'm going to just tell you right now, it was awesome. Like, I'm sorry, I'm like, I'm going to say it. It was a good monologue and it was awesome and I was in it to win it. And, and I w and it was a really thick British accent, and I finished it and they looked at me and they were like, um, very nice. Could you please do it again without the British accent?
And that's exactly what they did today. That's so funny. That's exactly what they did.
I did it again without the British accent, which of course I couldn't do. Like, like I, like I had practiced it so much with a British accent that suddenly I was 18 year old, John Cabrera insecure, nervous, John Cabrera as Mark Anthony. Like, you know, I can't even remember the actual Lord, but just imagine me, my voice, not doing anything Shakespearian in any way, delivering this. And it was just like, it was just disastrous, you know, I came out of there. I was like, you know, all of these months that I had been preparing and so excited and convinced that I'm going to Julliard my sister, I'm going to be right there. And, um, and I was just crushed. And then of course, like, you know, they put the list up on the wall. That's the first, you know, it was my first experience with a list up on the wall kind of thing, and did not see my name on there and was just like, just crushed. And, and then
Was that callbacks, was that, so did they do callbacks?
No. No. They did call backs within that audition. I wasn't on the list of callbacks even. Right. Like it was, it was really like, yeah, like the Brit, the British guy that I did, like that guy probably, yeah.
That guy graduated,
But, um, but John Cabrera was not on that list. And so, uh, so I was, you know, I mean, yeah, of course I, you know, I was
Just sad and, um,
You know, I, I like walked like, like back to the hotel where my mom was waiting and I was just like, got there. I think I like just broke down in tears, like immediately. Um, and then I think it was either the neck, I think it was the next day or something like that was the bigger audition that was like the consortium audition that was going to be like for all of these different schools, which ethical was one and DePaul was another Jim also Hoff was the, was the person auditioning me. And, um, I did Equis and, and it was good and I, you know, it was good and he, and I could tell that he really liked it. And, um, and, uh, I think he gave me a note, you know, to adjust it. And I took the note and I did it. And, you know, I mean that, that piece works really well for like an 18 year old, you know, like it just like, if I think that if you had any chops as an actor and you did a young monologue from some play, or you were playing your age, you probably had a really, really, really like a much higher chance of getting, um, getting into those schools.
And if you tried to do well, Mark Anthony from, from Julius Caesar. Um, so, uh, and then, and then I got back and, you know, and then all of the, kind of like sadness of like the, the, the, um, of the Juilliard thing was replaced by like a real, a lot of excitement, because then I got an acceptance letter from, uh, from both Ethica and, um, and DePaul. And in fact, the person from Ethica was really pushing hard for me to go there. They really wanted me to go there. Um, but it was the difference between going to like a little small, like a small college town versus going to a city. And I went and I visited Chicago, and I was just like, it was sort of the closest thing to what I imagined my life would be if I was living in New York. And, and so I was just like, I want, I just, I want to go here. Like, this is great.
When you were talking about saying that your audition was good and like you would, to this day, you, you really stand behind it. That just brought on this flood of memories of conversations that I would have with you were just be arguing with me about a note that somebody,
Oh, yeah. That, well, that has not changed. That's me. That's me. That's like my life, that's my life. Not just, that's not even just a creative thing. That's like my life with my wife on, on, on issues, on domestic issues. Um, yeah, I mean, that's me, I'll never, I'll never change. I'll always be somebody that's constantly like pushing back.
It's good to know who you are. It's good to just, you know, self be self-possessed. So then when you were, so you really, weren't the typical kid who like, wanted to be an actor your whole life and had a bunch of experience with it. So then what did you think day one week one, what did you think of the training
Of the theater school? Yeah. Um, well, I guess when I first got there, I was really enamored by it all. Um, you know, I'd never really had that kind of training or that kind of, you know, that I'd never had that experience, but, you know, in a high school, it was like, you know, you do some, a little bit of like theater games stuff, but mostly you're like, mostly you're doing plays, you're getting ready for some big play, you know? So it just felt very, um, I don't know, I felt I was a part of some special club of people who were, who had this like, secret for how to become an artist. And, you know, all of these different, all these different teachers at the, at the school all had like one little, one little piece of that larger secret to give you, um, I was quite enamored by it, I'd say in that, in that first, uh, in that, well, let's just, let's say maybe that first trimester or two, um, then, then I'd say by the end of the, of the year, things start to get a little wacky, um, maybe even like by the second trimester, you're starting to, like, you're starting to get a little worn out by the repetition of it all.
You're starting to get a little annoyed by the same tricks that you're seeing all of your, your fellow classmates doing. And then of course, I mean, I'm sure you've talked about this with everybody, but then when the warning aspect of them, and then, then things just start to really get walkie and people start really competing with one another, whether they're consciously competing or unconsciously competing, it just starts to get really, really weird. And that first year, I mean, you know, they cut like, you know, when we were there, they cut so many people. And a lot of those people were just like, you know, like they were part of the whackadoodle of it. All right. There were just some people there that were just like, what are, what is your, what are you doing here? Or like, not even from a talent right. Perspective, more like, like where do you come from?
Um, and, and then, yeah, it's just like so much weirdness. And I think that, that, to me, it felt like a little bit like their am, their Mo for who they chose was like, kind of throwing a lot at the wall and seeing what sticks. And so you also start to feel like, gosh, am I, am I just like something that was thrown at the wall? And like, will I stick or not? Right. Rather than, rather than was I actually chosen because they thought I was truly, truly talented, you know? Um, so that kind of gets in your head a bit, um, you know, outside of the theater school and memory, we're also going to a university which had its own separate thing dynamic outside of the theater school. Right. Which is like the dormitories filled with like lots of people who are not theater school related and all of the community interaction that you have going there. Um, the proximity, the distance, the sheer distance from those dormitories to the theater school. Um, I came from my, I was from Miami, so I had never experienced a winter like that in my life. Um, so, and we should tell,
We should tell our audience that winter, that we started theater school was the worst winter Chicago had had in 20 years. And there was multiple, multiple days where the news would say, don't go outside.
I know that it's like hazardous for your health,
Except separate trucking to muse music to move it to music with art, with like a, like a self portrait we had to bring in. And it was like snowing. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I, haven't got, I developed this habit of like taking my showers in the morning before school, like all throughout high school. And, and, uh, and so I would always kind of arrive to school with like slightly wet hair and, and at the theater school, the distance you'd have to walk. I would arrive to the theater school, like with a helmet. Like my head was completely, completely frozen, you know? I mean, that's just one example of just like the weirdness that I was thrown into. Like I used to like walk in the school with like ice all over my head, which I never really experienced that before. Um, and, uh, and so, I mean, it was just all wild, you know, and, and like, I experimented with drugs for the first time in my life, uh, there that fresh that first year. Um, I had, uh, I had a mental breakdown, um, uh, in the LA in the second half, I guess, of, of that year.
I, um, that was actually, um, that was actually inspired or it was jump-started I guess, by the drugs that I had been taking. Um, I, uh, I was, I was re like my roommate at the time who, uh, who just, I became really, really close to during my years at that the school, certainly during that first year. But, um, throughout most of my time at the school, um, he was not at the theater school. He was in the music school. Um, but he sort of opened me to so many like, like music, like I just like my whole, like music Renaissance began. Like, I I'm like some kid from Miami suburbs. Like all I listened to was top forties and suddenly I'm like listening to the Smith. So I'm listening to all of this, like apex twin and all of this, like new stuff. That's just like changing my world and start smoking pot. And then at a certain point, decide that I want to start doing mushroom. And I just like, just my first mushroom experience, I just shout out like a huge satchel of mushroom and
He didn't have anybody telling you how to
Do it. So suffice to say, I had a whole Rendez trip that then sort of broken, can we mentally for the rest of that year? I, I was, I had like high anxiety all year. I was really like, like, just having all of these, like new thoughts about like, just all these existential thoughts that I'd never had before, as it's like kid from the suburbs, like, you know, just all kinds of stuff. And, and it was also having a very difficult time, um, even incorporating any of this new stuff into my, into the education there at the school. Like I was actually having a hard time. I was having a hard time functioning really. And, and, um, and I was in the sh I should add, because I feel like this kind of is related somehow, but I was in Rick Murphy's, uh, improv class.
Right. But you either have Kali or you had Murphy. And I had Murphy and Rick was a very intimidating man. I know that people who are, who have colleagues said something similar about him, but Rick was, was intimidating. I feel in a different way because I developed a relationship with Al colleague as well. Um, which was sort of related to, um, I CA I, I got to know him in my sat in the second year. I S w with Rick. I really felt a lot of those feelings that I mentioned that I was feeling when I was back at that commercial art school. A lot of that was coming back in my class. I felt like I wasn't good enough for him that I, you know, like, and it really was getting me down, like in a, in a bad way. And then I, you add to it as whole, like mental breakdown thing that I had.
And I was just, I was just, I felt like I was just worthless, um, in regards to like the school and convinced that I would be caught, um, because I had gotten more. And, um, and I just couldn't find my stride at all. And then at the end of that year, you do your first, right? Because up until then, all you're doing is improv, which I just couldn't do. I couldn't get my head into it. You know, I just, I, I always was too, just thinking too much, you know? Um, yeah, yeah. That first year it gets better though. Um, so at the end of that year, we do scenes and I picked this scene, the Sam Shepard scene kind of small play, the smallest Sam Shepard play that. I can't remember what it was called right now, but it was this really weird abstract play.
And me Eric's later and I did it, and it was super weird and super crazy. And partly maybe because of how sort of messed up I was mentally at the time, I just, I just clicked into it, like clicked into it in a way that was just like the first thing that I did there at the school and the full year that I've been there that I thought was like really impressive. And I felt it. And Rick was like, Whoa. And later he called me to his office and he basically told me like, no, like no subtle terms. He said like, I, I like you'd be gone if it wasn't for that scene. I did not think that you have that in you like, right. Which kind of was a little freaky to hear. Um, but that, you know, it was sorta, that was also, I learned Rick Murphy's way of complimenting people through, through like, you know, through a sort of strange, uh, I don't think he was trying to be mean, he's just, he's so Frank, he, on that stuff, I think he was, he was being honest. So the next year, uh, you know, that's the year of the scenes and Rick Murphy chose, like chose me to be in his, in his workshop. The one that, you know, in, in the one that he was doing, which was like also like, Oh my gosh, like I thought he, he didn't like me. And, you know, and it was really that scene that I did at the end of his first year that got me to do that. That was the adding machine.
Right. And you remember, so the adding machine, and then I had that monologue that like that monologue, that big monologue there. And, um, and he, and, and he was really, really pleased with what I did there so much so that he in front of everybody, like kind of gushed at my performance with gummy, super embarrassed, you know, but I've colleagues saw the adding machine and then came up to me afterwards and was like, I want you to join my improv first year improv class and come in. Right. And of course, I'm thinking I'm not good at improv. Like I, like, I that's, that was the part that I sucked at, you know, it wasn't until the scene came in, they did, but I was so like, you know, excited that he, that he wanted me to be a part of that, that of course I did it. And it was an app colleagues' class that I understood that I started to understand what improv actually was. And I actually kind of like started doing like these really great, um, improv scenes and whatnot. I don't, I don't think I ever really loved, like, found a love for improv, but I certainly suddenly understood it that I, I didn't really understand it. Um, during that first year with Rick,
Were you the husband and adding machine? The guys?
Um, I w I was missed, I wasn't Mr. As well. We were all Mr. Zeros. Like, there were like five Mr. Z. Like he basically took Mr. Zero and he broke it into all these different things. And I got, I got Mr. Zero's big monologue, which, I mean, I'll be honest. Like I kind of lucked out there. Right. Because I got to, like, I got to just chew up scene. Right. Like I got to do, like, had any of the other guys there gotten a Jeff Brown, got a Mister zero. Like if they'd gotten that they would have also gotten to like, completely chew up the scene and like just, you know, made waves there. So that was like, I was sort of lucky there. I think that Rick gave me that largely because of the scene from the year before I also got the fixer, which was this other, like, weird, like character that appears in there. And that was also super fun and super stylized. Um, but yeah, uh, that,
Can I just interject what I remember about your mystery zero? It was heartbreaking there was something breaking about it in the best part. Yeah.
Because yeah, because it's the part of the play where Mr. Zero is like, is like begging he's, like, he's like begging for his existence really. Right. Because the adding machines about how, like, you know, sort of technologies coming in and taking away everybody's purpose and all that kind of stuff. So it's like, it's just like modeling and he's like begging for his existence. And, and, um, and I guess I was, I, I, I think I've always been able to like, tap into that, into that, um, sense of desperation and self-loathing
Yeah. I have always wanted to do that play by the way. I, I, I stand in that place,
Great time to do something like that. Right. Like the, the, the, the TA, like, I think that that play was written during the expressionists era, uh, period as a large response to industrialization and all of the effects that was having on society and the workforce. And we're seeing a, me, and that was like, turn of the century right now, we're turn of the new century. And we're seeing like, almost this, like, mirroring of what happened a hundred years, uh, ago happening with, with, um, information technology and the internet and, and, and, um, and how, once again, you know, what it means to what, what the workforce means is changing and what your place in the workforce is, and is changing and, and, and economic, um, disparity between, you know, classes and whatnot. So I feel like, I feel like somebody could do, well, you could do like a fateful rendition of it, but I think you could also probably do some sort of like interpretation, like new interpretation of it, or maybe there's even an opportunity for like a new revision of, of somebody that takes the old play and writes a new play where they just inject it, all of that, like adding machine stuff with like internet stuff instead, like tech, startups, and all.
Hmm. Oh. And now it's in the public domain. Okay.
Yeah, that's correct. Yeah. It's from the twenties. So it would be in the public domain. Yeah.
That's very good. I appreciate that. Okay. So let's talk about show besides the adding machine, uh, other shows that you did, what your experiences good, good, and bad and ugly of the other shows.
Uh, let's see. Um, I did detective story, which was w which was another workshop, um, that I thought that that was, uh, that was an enjoyable experience. I did, um, I did a Nick bowling piece, uh, which was the visit. Um, and I,
Yeah,
The visit was, I don't remember what I played in the visit. It was very ensemble show, but I really liked the show from like, uh, from just like, I like the writing. And I just liked the concept, everything about that show kind of keep me out, even though I don't think I had any role to play in it that was substantial. Like, I think, I want to say, like, Eric's later got like the lead role in that, or somebody got the lead role in that, that like, uh, like maybe Russell harden or something, and Anne Marie and Marie Welty had the main role. And then I think everybody else was just like town's person or something like that, which was a trend by the way, we all noticed. So it was a huge trend at the school. It was like two people who would get the actual role in the play and everyone else's beyond cycle.
Um, problem. I think that was, that was a big problem that I think soured a lot of people. Um, uh, and that was, I think, a problem in choosing the plays, right? Like what plays were chosen and that goes down to like why the plays were chosen. And then, and then when you sort of like take you take that path down, it really leads to a professor who wanted to do that play, you know, perhaps perfect professionally and like, and so they've got this great little pool of Guinea pigs that they can use to, um, to, uh, justify their, their desire to do something, um, in a professional sense. That's, that's my sort of, uh, you know, in hindsight, looking back at it, my interpretation of that, Oh, whether I'm right or not, there's no question. It was a problem. I think that, um, that so many plates plays had these big ensembles with like two characters and even more so that a lot of the same people were playing those two characters.
Right. Uh, people who had a look about them, you know, that really lended well to leading man or leading woman. Right. Um, so, uh, there was that, um, Molly Sweeney, that was a play that I did that I absolutely loved. Um, Colleen cos robe and I were in that show together and I forgot who the other person was, but it was, I want to say it was a three person play. It was just three people doing monologues. And the monologues themselves sort of tied the story together about a woman who, uh, who was having cataracts removed, who had cataracts removed from both of our eyes, had made her permanently blind her entire life. And this new, this new surgery would give her sight again and doing so, uh, essentially made her crazy, like made her crazy because she wasn't prepared for all of the visual stimuli that came with sight after not having had it, her entire life.
And, um, and I, I want to say that I, my character, the character I played was the doctor who did it. So there was like a lot of, you know, a lot of similar like themes of regret and self-loathing and all of this stuff that like, I felt like, you know, maybe it was that, that crazy thing that happened to me in my freshman year of school that allowed me to really like, just tap into that stuff really, really well. So, um, and then again, you know, came out of that, that show feeling like I had done something, um, really impressive that, that, that, that affected people. And of course that made me feel good. Um, Gina, you and I were in a show together, which the name of it, I want to S it totally eludes me, but it was where you and I met, actually, it was like, it was where you and I really became friends.
Um, it was called LA the lovers, I think, or it's that British? Yes. With exact, I can't remember her name. She was French. She was actually French and British. She, cause I remember she would speak French and she was, I mean, she was speaking English most of the times and it was very British, but like, but she also had her husband was French and, um, and she, and we, we did that together. Um, that was an interesting, that was an interesting play because, uh, that was, uh, that was a workshop. Um, so of course workshops were like, you know, they're a sec, they were second or third class plays. Right. They were like, they were what you did not want to get when you wake up to that, you know, to that, that list on the inside of the, of the door and they called it the workshop, the workshop pool, it was just absolutely awful. Even just calling it that. Right. Just awful.
Yeah. And, uh, and, and I remember, you know,
Like always coming up to getting up to the door, seeing that I wasn't on a main domain state show that I was in the workshop pool, that I was, it wasn't even going to be a workshop that was in the black box. It was going to be an elementary school classroom. And, uh, and it was called the lovers. And, you know, I was, so I just walked into that, into that, um, into that experience, just, you know, as bitter as I had been about any of the other ones that I did, but, um, that director was really infectious. She was such a sweet woman and the play was cute and quirky and I,
And
That's right, Anne, uh, shoot forgotten her last name. And
She directed for timeline, I think, cause I, her name has actually come up once before and I Googled her after that. It's she? Yeah. She still lives in Chicago and direct place.
She was wonderful. I remember that, that, that whole experience and Wakefield. Right, right, right, right. Um, uh, and anyway, um, she sort of turned this experience that like, you know, a lot, both of you and I came into like annoyed and bitter at right. Um, into the, into this just very, like, just very lovely, um, charming, little, little play that, that, um, that we were all really proud of and that got like really great, um, feedback from everybody who saw it and you and I became friends during that play at first, I think we kind of, we bonded, we bonded in, you know, from that like annoyance of the whole experience perspective. And then by the end we really loved the play and we really were having fun. We were like, you know, a lot of joking in the green room. Um, I remember, uh,
I'm sorry to interrupt you. But the thing that made that it was all about her. It was all about the director and it was all about the way she really, and truly treated us like the children that we were who needed nurturing. Like it, that's what I really, when it came down to, I mean, I understand why the theater school had this very like tough love, whatever approach, but at the same time, we really flourished with the nurturing.
Absolutely. Absolutely 100%, 100%. I'll never forget. I'll never forget. Her husband came to opening night and he gave us a standing ovation, just her husband, like everyone stood up. And, uh, and um, I forget the, uh, I forget the French, uh, term that they used, like to, to, to lodge you with, with praise from the audience, but he was, he was doing that and, and, and I'll just never forget that. And it all, it sort of seemed to like be a part of that whole experience and, and a part of that nurturing thing that you're talking about from her. And, uh, and I really came out of that experience, very surprised by, um, by it, because I came into it very angry, very, very upset. And I was gonna say, I think, I think that like some of the, of the faculty, you know, may have sort of may have sort of taken that like the, you know, that experience that some of us had, like where we came in, you know, sort of bitter about something, but then came out like, I think some faculty would say, well, that's, that was part of it.
That was part of the, the tough love, you know, whatnot. I don't believe that that's true. Like, I, I actually think that it was an, you know, like I think that, that, that it was something that we didn't often see there. Um, uh, you know, a lot of those workshops were, we have to remember with MFA students, so they were students too. Right. Like, so you were, how could you expect to get that kind of a nurturing experience from somebody who was only a few years older than you? Right. So special people like Anne were not that common, uh, in, in, in, in the, in the, uh, at least they're in the nineties when we were there. Um, in terms of those shows. So I'll say that,
Yeah. I was going to say, before you jumped on, uh, Gina, well, I was just saying that my experience of John is that he was so, so funny that I said when we were on crew together, that this gentleman is going to be on a Saturday night live. Like I li I never laughed so hard in my life. And crew was a miserable experience, miserable, but you made it tolerable because I knew every day. So I'm wondering, were you in shows where you got to showcase that later on? Like you should have been the star of the show?
Not really. Not really. I mean, you know, first of all, like I only was on the main stage twice and one of those two times I wasn't cast on the main stage. I was given a little, a little like small bit role in a main stage show. Uh, so, uh, so my first day, my only main stage experience at that school was in the chorus of merrily. We roll along. That was my only one. Yeah. And that was the one where Jean, I don't know if you remember, that was the one where you and I did where you helped me do this photo shoot that I did because, because, uh, Betsy Hamilton was the director and she had, you know, in, in, in the first week we had an, like an assignment as a, as the cast we had to come in and do some sort of, uh, some sort of a presentation to the rest of the cast about dreams and shattered dreams as she had.
She had been, she, I remember she said, like she was walking to, she was walking to the school one day and she looked over to the side and she saw a mirror that was shattered in the glass, in the grass. And, and that was the impetus for this assignment that we all have a broken dreams. And of course at that point I was, you know, I'm in my, my last year at the school. I haven't had any single chance to shine on the main stage. My last opportunity now here is in this merrily, we roll along thing as a chorus member, you know, which would literally with literally just person in the background, dancing and singing in the chorus. Uh, and so I was just like, um, like, okay, I'll give you broken dreams. I'm going to give you some books.
So I approached Gina, I approached GW who now we were like that last friends, because we had like, you know, we had, we'd gone through, uh, the lovers together and, and, and, uh, we both again experienced the defeat of being in the, in the workshop pool. Um, my reaction to that was a little different from Gina, but that's okay. The cat's out of the bag. Um, and, uh, and so I, I was like, Hey, I got an idea I want to do, I want to do this photo shoot where I want to sort of, um, through a series of, of images, I want to recreate my experience discovering that I was cast in merrily, we roll along.
And so we did this whole photo shoot with me, like auditioning then me, like, yeah. And then be like walking up to the door, be looking to see where my name was, then me like falling into the door, sliding down the drone. And then, and then when I did it, that I had those photos developed and then I, I printed them all onto white fruit of the loom t-shirts that I got from Kmart. And I put all of them on one app for the other. And then I put like my main shirt over the top, and I showed up, you know, to that day. And people were looking at me like, what's, what's wrong with that guy? Like, there's something going on with JP as he put on some weight or, you know, cause I was like really puffy, you know? And then everyone was going around the room, they were going around the room, doing their thing, you know, and everyone was looking at me like, because everybody's got like dire Ramesses and all that stuff.
And JPS just sitting there twiddling his thumbs and they're thinking there's something up with JP and, and also they're all, also some of them are thinking JP didn't do it. Like he didn't do. He like, he, he, you know, once again, just didn't bring in his assignment and he's going to come up with some excuse for why he doesn't have his work, you know? Cause that was also another trend with me is that I just didn't like doing homework. Um, and so they got to me and I stood up and I was like, yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this, you know, broken dreams thing. And you know, and I, I realize it's true that I do have a broken dream that I want to share with the class. And then I just proceeded to remove t-shirt after t-shirt and through the t-shirts to people. And cause everyone was dying, laughing, including Betsy Hamilton and they all wanted the t-shirts. Right. Like they, they were like, they were amazing, you know? So I'd like toss in people t-shirts across the room. By the time we got to the end of it. And like Betsy was like on the floor and of course she knew what I was saying, which was, I really, really, really don't want to be.
But she also couldn't deny that like brilliant. I, you know, that I, that I, well, that she wanted that she, that she walked into that house and she walked into that, right?
Yes. Oh, this is amazing. This is the best I've ever. And I can't believe, I didn't remember anything. I mean, I wasn't there for the presentation, but I, I, now I remember taking the third.
Yeah. Um, and so then, and then, and then that show was, you know, that show never, I would never say God, like, you know, I never had like any epiphany, like, Oh wow. I should have, I shouldn't have given this such a, you know, a bad rap early on given her such a hard time. Hey, you know, in the end it was like, you know, I was in the course of merely rural long. It was, it was, it was pretty dumb. I don't think that I got much from that performance, but, but I really enjoyed my time goofing around on that show, which it was my first main stage show. I would have to imagine that this happened in every main stage show, um, which was just like people like mooning each other from the, like, from like the wings, you know, you know, just all kinds of weird stuff past the penny. People like any across the stage, you know, things that you just didn't do, you didn't use just didn't do them in the workshops because it just, it was too small to
Yeah. You were backstage.
Yeah. So that was my first opportunity to experience all that fun. Theatery goofiness that you get to experience at the reskin. And that was very enjoyable. And I I'm glad that I at least got to experience that once. I think there were some people,
Somebody told us a story about you being Bradley Walker told us where you in sisterly fields. Yeah.
That's the other one, which I was not cast in. I was not casting. That's the other one that I said I've been on in two, but the only one I was cast in was merrily. We roll along. I was the only one that was like technically a part of my actual casting. Um, I played major ligit in system of feelings, which is just a character who they talk a lot about throughout the play. And then at a certain point in the play, because there's like one of the six or three different, you know, outcomes of, of this is that they go to this race that this big, like this big outdoor lawn race that they've been talking about in previous, in previous acts. And so if you happen to go in one of the directions, you actually get to see that race. And they've been talking about major ligit throughout the piece.
And if you happen to see that one thing with the race major ligit has a very, very small like role where he just runs slowly. He's like an old man. He runs slowly across the stage while he's being taught. While they're asking him questions, he doesn't actually say anything. He just, he just runs little old man runs with his, like, you know, his Jersey on and his like, you know, marathon number. And he grok crosses the stage. And it's funny, you know, it's a funny moment because he's a little old guy and, and whatnot. And Sean, I auditioned for that. I auditioned for the, for the role and was called back to the role that Sean, um, gun God, uh, and you know, like all like all of the main stage show, you know, I was disappointed that I didn't get on a main stage show.
And that was a sh I was a role that was sort of in my wheelhouse to play, but Sean was in, you know, he was an upperclassmen and he, you know, he, I put, Sean had also not gotten any, you know, really great casting. So it made sense that he got that. And Sean and I were already developing a pretty strong friendship. And so they actually petitioned bill Burnett. They actually said cast, JP has major religion. Like he, like, he would be great, you know, he's really good at characters that do in like, you know, like in prep, you know, all that kind of stuff, uh, which sort of goes back to what you were saying earlier about, uh, Jen or asking earlier, did I get a chance to play any of that kind of like charactery stuff that I had been doing that was a more cup comedian, this would probably be the best example of it and that, and it didn't even come from casting.
I actually was in cast in another show that, that, um, that trimester and I was in that other show. And, um, and so it was that, and then I did this little small part as, as major ligit, which was fun because, you know, I got to, I got to be in a show with all my friends, like, you know, Lee was in that show and Sean was in it. I was Sean and I were in the same dressing room. So we got, you know, we, we put on the makeup together and unlike everybody else, I only had one particular app that I was in, which wasn't always going to be. Right. So I'd have to get all my makeup on, get ready and see whether or not the, the coin flip went my way. And if it did, then I'm on, if it didn't take off all the makeup, but there was something actually kind of fun about that too. So I, like, I actually got into the whole, I got into the, to the fun of just the whole theater experience there, mostly because it was my friends and we can all laugh about it. And if I didn't go on, that was part of the fund. And then afterwards we all went out to a bar and, and, and stuff. So that was actually, I would say that was a, that was definitely a highlight show, even though my role in it was, you know, it was basically nothing really
You'll have to listen to the episode with Bradley Walker. He tells us a sweet story about you guys. Bradley was in that. I remember.
Yeah. He had to wear the short shorts for running. Yeah.
Bradley was also in, in merrily. We roll along if I remember correctly. So it was like Brasfield Bradley, Bradley, Eric Slater and Louise Rosetta. That those were the three, like those were the, those were the three characters. Everybody, everybody else was just set dressing basically.
Right. Well, I want to be mindful of the time. I know you probably have to go, but just really quickly. I mean, you, we didn't even get to talk at all about what you've done since you graduated and it's so well, we'll put it in the show notes and everybody who's listened to this either knows you or knows you from television. Um, so, you know, we'll have to maybe have a part two for the conversation, but what are, tell us what you're doing now
Right now? Uh, right now I'm actually working on a, um, I'm working on a tech startup. Um, I'm actually trying to, um, I'm building a tech product that, um, a platform for collective mythmaking. So I'm trying. Yeah. So I'm trying to build, I'm trying to build a platform where communities can come together and build their own star Wars sized universes together rather than like pump all of their creative energy into the IP. Yeah. The IP of Warner brothers and Disney, right? Like just like billions of dollars worth of value through memes and cosplay and fan fiction is basically like just going right into, into all of these, these, um, big, these big IP that, that the fans really have no control over. And certainly don't see any participation, you know, in, and so I, I, uh, several years ago I started getting obsessed with this idea that like that all of that energy could be focused towards them building their own, you know, their own star Wars, their own Lord of the rings, their own Harry Potter, and that they, that they, um, collectively, uh, you know, collectively control, you know, control the creative direction of it, its its evolution, but also can participate in, in it's a monetary success if it were to have that.
And so I've been on this like multi-year journey to understand what that would look like, how you could ever incentivize a group of people to, um, to work together, um, on something like that. Um, you know, I mean a group I, I imagined that this platform could potentially have be, you know, it could potentially attract as many people as are on Twitter. Right. How would you ever incentivize and track everybody's contributions to understand like what everybody's value is? Um, that took me into the world of blockchain and into the world of cryptocurrency, which is, you know, a technology that I think has a lot of promise in that regard. And um, this past year I've learned a bunch of like, uh, learned a bunch of like coding languages and, and, and have actually built some actual tech, um, and, and some like prototypes and whatnot. Um,
That's amazing. Is there a place where people can stay updated on what's happening with it?
Not yet because I haven't really made it, um, really public yet, but once I start making it public, um, yeah, I mean, I have a website that I'm, that I'm, that's still behind the curtain that I'm going to be releasing that wall out people to like stay up to date through, through an email list. Um, I'm going to be doing a, um, I'm really into this idea of doing sort of a regular clubhouse room, um, in which the first starter world that we're going to be creating together, that I'm going to, um, use clubhouse to, um, to introduce that world through these like weekly, like kind of like his like fake history lessons of the world, like geeky, nerdy history lessons of the world. Um, and, um, and that hopefully will attract people who want to, um, to write, uh, create content in that world, join the community that will essentially be building that thing from the ground up.
And, um, and then, uh, I'm working with, um, I'm working with a few really cool, talented people who I pitched the idea to that. Like he thought about it that have skills and everything from publicity to, um, to JavaScript. Um, and right now I'd say like 2021 I'm sort of dubbing as the team that is the year of team building. It's the year that I'm like looking for folks who like the idea who dig it and think that they can bring value in some way. And there's so many ways that people can bring value to this and kind of come in as a sort of team member from the ground up. Like I said, everything from like publicity and, you know, economic I'm looking for like, you know, right. I'm looking for somebody who's like an economist who wants to come in and be like, okay, you basically are building a little, a little, you know, in game economy, let me make sure that you are doing it right.
And it doesn't collapse, you know, or you don't have overinflation or any of these, like, you know, I feel like I'm kind of having to figure all, all of this stuff out myself and become a sort of Jack of all trades. But as we know, a Jack of all trades is typically a master of no trades. And so at this point I want to, you know, I've been doing a lot of it, you know, getting it to where it is, I'm by myself. But at this point I'm going to need some masters to come in and own some parts of this. That's what I've been doing now. My, you know, you, yeah, you, you know that my, like my, uh, my past for, you know, like the last 20 years has been like a smattering of entertainment industry stuff from like, I was, I had a role on Gilmore girls for five years, and then I started writing, um, you know, uh, like for studios and television and did that for about six or seven years. And, um, and now I'm really obsessed with this and I'm trying to make this, this, this work
Obsessed is that this whole time we've been talking. Cause what, what I usually do when, when we talk to people that we know, which has been almost everybody, um, is I kind of like pull out a theme and I'm sitting here thinking like, I, when I encounter your spirit, I feel it so completely, but I was having a hard time naming it. And that's what it is. It's, it's obsession in a good way. It's obsession with, with your imagining of how the world can be. Um, your obsession with self betterment, your obsession with like a kind of a rigorous standard for how things should be. And, and your, um, you know, your obsession with telling people when it's not up to stare,
You said to me, you said something to me a long time ago. I think it was during the lovers. You said that, that, um, that I was, uh, I was really, you said I'm a very, very perceptive person, but that it's not because I'm very perceptive of other people. It's because I'm a perceptive of myself that you said that it was sort of your way of saying, like, you don't really pay attention to other people, attention to yourself, but somehow through your constantly observing yourself and observing the problems in yourself, you sort of figure out how to engage.
Yeah. Well, and I mean, you were 20, or if you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five-star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable Inc production. Jen Bosworth, Ramirez, and Gina [inaudible] are the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina Polizzi for more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.