When you're pre-qualified and you're
negotiating on an aircraft,
your position is f***
you on pre-qualified.
That's it.
I want this, I want this, I want this.
And if you don't give it to
me, I'll get it from over there.
Welcome to Own the
Jet by Aspen Aero Group,
where we share perspectives from some of
the leading voices in
private jet ownership and
business aviation. I'm your host, Derek
Savage, along with my
co-host, Jason Spoor,
president of Aspen Aero Group. Our guest
today is Wendy
Stewart-Ormond from Aircraft Finance
Corporation. Wendy is an expert in
aviation finance and has
helped countless buyers make
smart, strategic decisions when it comes
to their aircraft purchases.
Join us as we dive deep into the
mechanics, mindset, and moments that
define jet ownership.
And together, we'll learn
what it takes to own the jet.
Wendy Stewart-Ormond,
thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me. It's a
privilege. Thank you.
Being our very first show, let me give a
little bit of a
synopsis on what the show is.
So we're trying to bring things from the
perspective of anybody that's interested
in owning a jet either for the first time
or maybe they already own a jet.
And they're trying to learn more about
the ins and outs of private aviation.
So they're more well-informed and they
know the right people, right?
So can we start off by talking a little
bit about your company, what you guys do,
and why it pays to
know someone like Wendy?
Wendy Stewart-Ormond, Aircraft Finance
Corporation is a 30-year-old company.
We're always been family owned. If
somebody wants to purchase an aircraft,
chances are they may need
financing, even if they think they don't
need financing, they
should still talk to us.
We offer a concierge level service where
we hold their hand from
underwriting to clothes and beyond.
Our clients are lifelong clients. We
don't do one-offs. And I
know their kids' names.
I know their dogs. They know my dogs, my
kids. We become family.
But isn't that what private aviation is?
It's very niche and it's a family.
Jeff Sarris Yeah. So if
I'm just picturing myself,
if I'm some rich person that wants to buy
a jet, like I've got a
whole lot of money and I want to
buy a jet, why would I need financing for
it? Because I'm assuming
I'm going into this with,
"I've got FU money. Let's do this." Why
do I need financing?
Wendy Stewart-Ormond, Aircraft Finance Corporation is a very niche and it's a family-owned company.
Well, even people with FU money should
consider the fact that we
can get very favorable rates
and terms. They can take their cash,
reinvest it in their
business, put it in the stock market,
just hold on to it. We don't just finance
the Uber wealthy. We have
friends that come together,
two, three gentlemen, and they go
together and purchase
and finance an aircraft.
So I'll do anything over a million
dollars and the sky's the limit.
Jeff Sarris Nice. So
it's like a party bus,
if you're going in with friends. For our
viewers here, Jason, you're
the president and owner of
Aspen Air Group brokerage and management
firm for private aviation, jets
specifically. How did you
and Wendy know one another? Jason
So we met several years ago working one
of my past jobs. We had
one of our executives looking
to buy an airplane and we contacted
Wendy's company and made
the connection. So I got him
financed and on his way to an airplane
and been friends ever since.
Jeff Sarris You told us a
story when we were meeting
earlier. Jason I told
you several stories.
Jason You told us several stories, but
you told us an interesting
story about some things that
happened related to some people you had
to bail out. I don't
want to give too much away.
Wendy We do finance some very colorful
people. This was a very high profile
musical entertainment person. We got the
financing done in place.
We closed this beautiful
Gulfstream aircraft. Yay, it's always a
happy day. And their very
first trip, I get a phone call at
5am. I'm on the East Coast and I wake up,
"Hello, it's never good
when your phone rings at 5am."
And it is the client saying, "Our pilots
just quit. We're in Miami."
And I'm like, "Hang on. Hold on." I turn
on the light. "Can you
reiterate what you're saying?"
Jeff Sarris Their pilots quit. They
didn't just like, "Take a break."
Wendy No, we landed in Miami.
Jeff Sarris They quit. Walked away.
Wendy They took their bags and they left.
I said, "Why did this
happen?" He said, "I don't know."
I said, "Okay, let me call you back.
Let's make some phone calls
here." So we call the pilots.
I'm like, "Hello, what's going on?" I
said, "I am not losing my pilot's license
for drugs and hookers
for the sake of this aircraft." And I
said, "I understand. Thank you so much."
Jeff Sarris That's just
multiple hookers, multiple drugs.
Wendy There was a lot
going on in the back of this
aircraft. It's a rock and
roll lifestyle. Jeff Sarris
When you own the jet, you live how you
want. Wendy Exactly. So I
said, "I understand. Thank
you so much." Click. I call a friend down
the west coast. Wake them
up. And it's very early there.
Thank God you took the call. You know who
you are. I said, "I need
two Gulfstream pilots in Miami
and two hours. Max four, please." Jeff
Sarris Now they had to be like specific
stream pilots. Because you mentioned
that. Wendy You have to be type rated on
a specific aircraft.
Jeff Sarris So you can't just like, "Hey,
Southwest Airlines, you speak to that."
Jeff Sarris Yeah, no. Very
specific for that airplane.
Jeff Sarris You've got to have that
license, that
certification, training, all that. Okay.
So you had not only
was it Find Me pilots.
Wendy To pick this aircraft. And so four
hours later, they took off
in Miami. Because after 30
years, we know who to call. And we don't
leave our people just
hanging out there in the wind.
Jeff Sarris It's who you know, right?
Wendy Yes, because they
will finance another aircraft,
or five, or six. This is a lifelong
relationship. And I don't judge, you
know, I don't care what
he was doing on his aircraft. I just want
him happy. I want him to
come back and finance another
aircraft in the future. Jeff Sarris How
long do people usually
keep their, I mean, do people
get their planes repoed? Like if you find
somebody that like, you
know, it's their first jet,
they're not used to the
expense of it, whatever, right?
Wendy Well, we qualify them, not just on
the payments, but on the
maintenance, the hangers,
the pilots, the fuels, unexpected,
whatever. So hopefully,
they're never in a position
where they have to make a choice over not
making their jet loan
payment. But we've never had that
happen. Look, a jet owner loves as a mad
crazy love for his
aircraft. He will sell his wife,
his kids, his dogs, his house before he
misses a jet loan payment.
Jeff Sarris Right. Because you can always
get another dog. You can
always, if you got the jet,
you can get a wife. Wendy Or three.
Jeff Sarris Right. Okay. But they don't
walk away from their aircraft. We have
never had that happen.
Jeff Sarris I guess it's a
life, right? Like you get this
lifestyle room. Wendy And you can't go
backwards from that. Like
you're flying around in your golf
stream and all of a sudden you're like,
Oh, this isn't for me. I'm
gonna go back and fly united.
Jeff Sarris United.
Wendy United. Said no one ever.
Jeff Sarris Right.
Wendy Or they just started going downhill
commercially when golf had started.
Jeff Sarris I would say
post 9 11 it went downhill
because all the TSA stuff.
Wendy Or that was the first
in commercial aviation, but it didn't get
really awful until golf
head. And we actually in 2021
had our biggest here in 2021 and 30
years. Everybody bought
a private jet in 2021.
Jeff Sarris Now, a lot of
that, there was some depreciation,
like tax benefits, right? Wendy Or we
used to have 100% bonus tax depreciation.
Jeff Sarris So what that
means if I have this right,
and I think I do because we were talking
a little bit about
this yesterday. That means
that if you purchase a $10 million jet,
you can depreciate all of
that year one. Is that the idea?
Wendy Or there is a schedule. Yeah, but
it used to be 100%. So if
you have a tax liability,
you can purchase a private aircraft and
take the depreciation
right off your tax bill.
It's a very large incentive, but they're
bringing back a bill that
just passed the house that
includes 100% bonus depreciation. And I
actually just had a phone
call last week when it passed
the house that a client of mine who I've
had for five years is
looking at a new aircraft. He was
looking at a $4 million aircraft. He
called me up. He said,
"Wendy, I think I'm going to step
up to an $8 million purchase to offset my
tax liability." And I said,
"Okay, let's get this done.
Let's get you pre-qualified, sir, because
the best position always when purchasing
an aircraft is from a f*** you position."
And by that I mean when you're
pre-qualified and you're
negotiating on an aircraft, your position
is f*** you on
pre-qualified. I want this, I want this,
I want this. And if you don't give it to
me, I'll get it from over there. So
always buy a jet from
a position of I'm pre-qualified. So let's
get you pre-qualified. And
that is why you want to know,
Wendy. Right. So right now, just talking
about the depreciation thing,
if I were to buy a jet today,
right, and this is before this bill
passes and we're taping
this prior to airing it,
so by the time this airs, this is likely
that the bill will
already pass. But today,
prior to that happening, what's that look
like? What's keeping those
floodgates from coming open
as far as people making that purchase?
Right now, it's at 60% depreciation.
But think about that being able to bump
up to 100%. If you have a
$10 million tax liability,
the difference between 60% and 40% is
significant. What is that? $4 million?
I'm doing quick blonde
math. You're better at it than I am. It's
significant. So I
think people are watching
and waiting. We have a new
administration. You know, politics play a
huge part in private
aviation. So I think we're headed in the
right direction. I do
want to find out from you if
there's like a thing that people need to
know prior to getting into this
conversation. If there's one
thing, now you had mentioned cash being
an obstacle sometimes, right? Like cash
is the biggest enemy
sometimes. Cash is my biggest competitor.
Your biggest competitor,
right. Right. Why is that?
Because if I've got $10 million in the
bank and I want to buy a jet, why
wouldn't you want to keep
that? Throw it into Bitcoin. Or whatever
it is. Just hold on to it.
But I also, I've talked to a
lot of clients who I think it's an ego
thing. Yeah. I paid cash for my jet, but
that doesn't make it a
smart purchase. Right. Even if you
already own your jet for
cash, let's refi you out of it.
Let me give you cash back. I can get you
cheap money. Just take your
cash back. Nice. Use it in
your business. Invest it. Hold on to it.
Nice. We do that a lot. So if somebody
wants to get in touch
with you about like, hey, maybe I've got,
what's the minimum I
need to have as far as like,
before I reach out to you, just so I
don't have a bunch of like, well, it
depends on what you're
purchasing. Let's say I'm purchasing a
jet, uh, that is at least, I don't know,
what, $2, $3 million.
$2, $3 million. What do I need to have in
the bank? What am I, what
does my situation need to
be before I reach out to you? So if
you're coming to me for a loan, yeah,
perhaps you don't really
need it. Okay. Right. But you want it.
Yeah. So if you want a $2 million loan,
let's have one to two
in the bank. Okay. You get to hold on to
it. But it creates comfort.
Okay. Knowing that you have this
cash. Okay. Just in case things go south
in your life. Yeah. That's
a, that's a lower barrier to
entry than I would have assumed. I would
have assumed that you needed
to be like 20, 30 at least.
No. No. Well, if you're buying a $30
million aircraft, right?
Right. Yeah. We're just talking
like a starter jet. Yeah. Yeah. Just my
first jet. Right. That's what we're
talking about. Yeah. Yeah.
So, yeah, you can do that with one, $2
million in the bank and finance whatever
you need to finance.
Well, you're going to put 30% down. Yeah.
So after that, you need cash and
reserves. We're going to
look at your reserves. Okay. Gotcha. You
know, whenever you guys work
in this industry, one thing
that I found, because I'm a newcomer to
the industry, I don't
know an FOB from a DOM to any
of these other acronyms you guys throw
around all the time. What are
some cases where you guys have
run into where you just had to educate
the hell out of people? Is
that something that you run
into very often? Yeah. Quite often. What
don't they know? So it
depends where they're coming in
from, right? If they're coming in from a
previous aircraft owner to
being a brand new owner, wanting
to start operating a jet. Yeah. How much
we have to backfill, how
much we have to educate them on,
hey, you got to buy the airplane, but not
only that, but continuing
the upkeep on the airplane,
the hangar of the airplane. Now, now, you
said something
interesting last night when we were
talking about the maintenance. Why? Okay.
So obviously you have to
maintain an aircraft. I
get that. It's like, you know, I own a
car. I have to get maintenance done on
that. Aircraft's a little
bit more intense, right? But why does
that matter whenever you're looking to
finance a jet? Well,
the engine and APU maintenance programs
protect the asset from catastrophic
possible happenings.
And it does happen and happen. The value
of an aircraft is largely
in the engines. Yeah. And we
prefer to have them on programs that are
purchased hourly by the
owner. If they're not on programs,
like why should that matter? Well, if you
lose an engine, depending on the
aircraft, you're reaching
into that front pocket. Yeah. One
million, two million, three million,
right? And up. Yep. For
that engine, that engine program is
insurance that no matter what
happens, it's taken care of.
Gotcha. What about the, like, I don't
know, like if your lenders see that
something's not on a
maintenance program, how does that affect
the finance? So we
prefer it, but we have done it
without the programs, but that requires a
significant cash
deposit into an account to be
held to ensure that if the engine fails,
that it's going to. So it's
like, if you're not going to
maintain this, you're covering the risk.
Right. We don't want someone
just to walk away when an engine
fails and just leave their airplane
banded on a ramp somewhere.
We don't want the airplane.
We put the orange sticker on the window
and you just wait for them
to tell what it was and how
that works. Something like that. We want
everybody out there
flying and happy and, you know,
flying private. Yeah. What does it feel,
I mean, like people come to
you guys and they're, they're
like, a lot of times they haven't owned a
jet before, but like maybe
they've ridden in a private
jet from somebody, like they've had a
taste of it. Or they're
just so fed up with commercial
air travel. Yeah. Like I flew in here
yesterday. It was not enjoyable, but you
know, even if you're
sitting up front and we're in
Indianapolis, we have a pretty decent
airport. Yes. It's about,
it's about, you know, getting through TSA
and this trip search and all of your,
everything being shoved into a dirty,
nasty bin. And, you know,
people are sick of it. And then
flight delays, cancellations,
misconnections, your luggage is lost. The
beautiful thing about
private aviation, you show up 15 minutes
before your flight and you
just get in and everyone's
happy. And the pilots just are there and
you just go. Nice.
Where can we learn more?
aircraftbanker.com. Aircraftbanker.com.
It's our website. Okay. Yeah.
One thing before we go. Sure.
I absolutely have to pay homage to our
founder. Absolutely. My
late, beloved husband, who
everybody knows in private aviation,
Martin Stewart Orman was
a Titan in this business.
And we miss you. Everybody loves you. And
thank you for teaching and
mentoring so many people.
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. To Marty.
To Marty. Awesome. Great
way to end the first episode.
Thank you for watching Own the Jet. If
you want to see more Own the Jet, make
sure to subscribe to
our channel on YouTube and leave a
comment telling us what aspect of jet
ownership you'd like to know
more about. Own the Jet is brought to you
by Aspen Aero Group, your
trusted partner in private and
corporate jet ownership. Learn more at
AspenAeroGroup.com. This has been a
Savage Media production.