WEBVTT

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Oh, there we go.

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Hello, everyone.

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We got a lot of stories for you

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today.

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Chat control,

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one point O has been defeated.

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DuckDuckGo is building their own web

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index.

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Vala wants to make payments on Android

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that would work on custom ROMs.

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So all of that and other news is

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coming up next.

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Stay tuned.

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we're working on

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within the Privacy Guides community and

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this week's latest top stories in the data

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privacy and cybersecurity space.

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I am Nate,

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and with me this week live and in

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the same room is our executive director,

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Jonah.

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How was travel?

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It was a good trip.

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Not too much to complain about.

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I didn't have to travel quite as long

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as you did.

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It was still okay, though.

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I've had much worse.

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So... All right.

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Yeah, with that,

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we're just going to jump right into our

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main stories this week.

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And our first story... Oh, excuse me here.

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This is acting up a little bit.

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Yeah,

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our first story this week is about chat

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control.

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This is good news.

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We don't typically get a lot of good

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news in the privacy space.

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I mean, I hate to say it,

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but we do get good news sometimes.

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And this is a good one.

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Chat control one point O has...

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been heavily, heavily, heavily reigned in.

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So for those of you who may not

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be aware, chat control,

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there's two versions of chat control.

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Well,

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let me start by saying that chat control

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is basically the initiative in Europe to

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get companies to scan all communications

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and messaging.

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and um chat control one point oh is

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a voluntary version and uh companies can

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choose to comply or not comply and it

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basically provided them with legal

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protection if they did choose to comply

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kind of a whole uh kind of like

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what section thirty two thirty is supposed

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to do here in the us where like

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if you're acting in good faith we're not

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gonna you know get too crazy with with

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suing you if something goes wrong um two

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point oh is

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the other one that would require client

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side scanning,

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even for things like Signal and all these

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encrypted messengers.

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But yeah,

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but one point it was obviously still not

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great, right?

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Because, you know,

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this this blog post here comes from

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Patrick Breyer,

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who is an MP for the Pirate Party,

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which I think is actually the official

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name, which is pretty crazy.

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But yeah,

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and he's he's long been a big,

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a big proponent of

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of privacy in general in Europe.

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He's definitely been pushing for a lot of

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good privacy initiatives.

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And with this

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With this Chat Control,

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the Pirate Party put forward Amendment

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Five.

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Sorry,

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I know I'm going a little out of

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order here.

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Chat Control is one of those things that

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has to be renewed every so often,

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and it's actually up for renewal here in

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April.

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Unfortunately,

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it doesn't look like they were going to

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stop it entirely,

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but at least they were able to get

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in this Amendment Five here,

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which basically says, okay,

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it's still voluntary, it's still scanning.

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but it has to be limited specifically to

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individual users or groups of users

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suspected by a competent judicial

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authority of being linked to child sexual

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abuse.

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So basically, like the headline here says,

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they've ended the untargeted mass scanning

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of private chats,

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and they've at least reined it in to

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be like,

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it has to be people that you think

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are potentially guilty of this specific

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crime.

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um so yeah i mean those are kind

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of the facts of of this story um

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it's huge news i mean the deadline for

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chat control one point oh uh was coming

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up pretty quick it was coming up in

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april and april sixth i think they said

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yeah a lot of countries in the eu

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were definitely planning on renewing it um

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which would have enabled the current state

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of affairs to continue on which isn't

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ideal because it provides these companies

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a

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you know,

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a legitimate use for or a legitimate

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reason to scan all of this data for

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their customers,

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as long as they're saying they're doing it

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for the purposes defined in check control

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one point.

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Oh,

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they can kind of do whatever they want

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scanning wise with

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The data of Europeans and now,

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even though.

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You know,

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it'll still be around getting this

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amendment in that restricts it to.

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Just like court or ordered situations,

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I think is.

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A huge benefit for sure.

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And again,

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even though this version of chat control

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will.

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pretty much inevitably be renewed.

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It's in this form still a voluntary

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system.

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So something like signal is not going to

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be affected by this anything with end to

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end encryption isn't going to be affected.

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It'll mainly be something that like,

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probably big tech companies, Google,

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Facebook are going to use to scan

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messages,

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which they were certainly doing already.

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So it's not great.

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Ideally, you know,

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all of these services would have more

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privacy by default,

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but

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at least you can still switch these

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private alternatives, right?

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Yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, and it's really interesting.

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I know this isn't necessarily relevant per

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se,

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but this article has some really good

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statistics here that I thought were really

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interesting.

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Like they say here that there was overload

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of junk data.

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Forty-eight percent of the disclosed chats

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are false positives and criminally

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irrelevant.

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They said in Germany,

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forty percent of investigations already

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target minors who thoughtlessly share

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images rather than organized predators.

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So like here in the US, for example,

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the age of consent is like eighteen.

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And so if a seventeen year old is

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dating a seventeen year old and sends an

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image to them, that is technically CSAM.

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But it's also one of those things where

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most people are just kind of like, yeah,

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okay, maybe they shouldn't be doing that,

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but also we shouldn't treat them like

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child predators.

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And so he just kind of points out

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all the reasons that this stuff is just

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completely insane.

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And yeah,

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it's definitely unfortunate that the whole

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thing just didn't get thrown out entirely,

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but it is really cool to see it

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get reined in for sure.

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And that...

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I don't know.

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Do you think this has any implications for

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Chat Control?

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That is what I was just about to

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ask you.

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No,

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I do think there is different ways that

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they could go about this.

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This has obviously been around for quite a

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while and I think they have been using

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this as an excuse for like,

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this has been around for years and now

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we want to expand on these requirements.

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And so certainly it's not great because it

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kind of gives them an excuse to do

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all of this.

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At the same time,

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I think that this version right here and

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the proposed to point out version that

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they continually try to push across the

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finish line.

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They are pretty different.

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And I don't necessarily know that this

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will lead into that.

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But it's always a slippery slope.

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I think we're always we're always right on

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the edge of maybe these privacy

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protections no longer working.

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So even though

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I don't think this is going to be

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a huge deal just because it has been

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around a while and this is an even

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better form of it.

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And so we're kind of moving in the

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right direction.

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I do think when more chat control

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discussions come up,

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like they did last year, for example,

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we all need to stay vigilant about that

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and continue posting about that and

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continue contacting representatives at

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that time.

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So in the future,

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we'll continue to talk about chat control

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if that's coming up and stuff, but...

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But yeah,

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I think before we move on to our

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next story,

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we should probably address a bit more

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about where we are this week.

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So Nate and I,

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as we talked about on last week's show,

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we are here in Austin, Texas.

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EFF Austin is putting on an event that's

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actually starting in a couple hours here

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in this space.

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So this will be...

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build up and there will be speakers going

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on here.

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There's going to be music outside.

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It's going to be fun.

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All of this is going on during South

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by Southwest.

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Kind of an unofficial party together by

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EFF.

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So I don't know if any of you

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watching are in Austin,

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Texas and want to hop over in the

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next two hours, but you certainly can.

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Otherwise, Nate,

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do you have anything else you want to

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share about this event?

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Yeah, I've got a

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Yeah, so our EFF Austin's president,

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Kevin Welch,

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he said that we're fighting the

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enshitification of South by Southwest and

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providing an event in the spirit of the

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original South by Southwest Interactive

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that Hugh Forrest,

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who is one of the co-founders of South

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by Southwest Interactive and is actually

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one of our keynote speakers here tonight,

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he said that Hugh Forrest built over the

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years

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and we're providing a space of hope,

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highlighting people fighting against and

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shitification of tech and bad tech laws,

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people who are building cool things with

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tech and pushing back on bad policy.

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So, yeah,

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I know we have viewers all over the

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country, and all over the world, really.

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But, yeah,

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if you happen to be in the Austin

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area and you're free tonight,

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we'll be here.

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Well,

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we'll be here all night in the sense

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of the event.

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It goes until ten, I think, local time.

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So if you happen to be in the

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area, definitely come say hi.

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And, you know, if not, just,

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Keep an eye out.

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I think we're going to try to share

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some of the stuff that we learned here

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tonight, hopefully.

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Yeah.

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In the meantime,

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do you want to talk to us about

00:09:48.346 --> 00:09:51.128
this next story about what's going on with

00:09:53.188 --> 00:09:54.909
removing custom ROM hurdles?

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Yeah.

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So this headline is,

00:09:59.712 --> 00:10:00.854
Let's see if it would load.

00:10:01.254 --> 00:10:02.215
Paying without Google,

00:10:02.355 --> 00:10:05.878
new consortium wants to remove custom ROM

00:10:05.918 --> 00:10:06.259
hurdles.

00:10:06.859 --> 00:10:07.379
So basically,

00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:09.400
a new coalition consisting of the groups

00:10:09.461 --> 00:10:12.504
behind EOS, IOD, Apostrophe,

00:10:12.624 --> 00:10:15.285
and Vala are pushing for unified

00:10:15.485 --> 00:10:16.167
attestation,

00:10:16.206 --> 00:10:18.448
which is a Google-free alternative to

00:10:18.509 --> 00:10:19.710
Google Play integrity,

00:10:19.750 --> 00:10:21.091
which we've talked about a bit on the

00:10:21.130 --> 00:10:21.812
show and, of course,

00:10:22.552 --> 00:10:24.293
on the Privacy Guides forum in the past.

00:10:25.695 --> 00:10:27.756
which if they can do this it would

00:10:27.836 --> 00:10:30.259
also potentially open the door to google

00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:32.501
free nfc payment options on android which

00:10:32.522 --> 00:10:34.543
would be great um this has long been

00:10:34.984 --> 00:10:36.706
i think a pain point for many custom

00:10:36.885 --> 00:10:40.070
os users and this plan proposal would be

00:10:40.129 --> 00:10:41.850
released under an open source license

00:10:41.910 --> 00:10:42.211
apache

00:10:44.013 --> 00:10:45.714
I think that this could be huge because

00:10:45.833 --> 00:10:48.576
we have certainly not only when it comes

00:10:48.635 --> 00:10:51.477
to like tap to pay apps but also

00:10:51.518 --> 00:10:52.937
just banking apps in general.

00:10:53.038 --> 00:10:54.879
I think that we've seen and this comes

00:10:54.919 --> 00:10:56.760
up a lot in like Graphene OS discussions.

00:10:58.061 --> 00:10:59.461
A lot of banking apps are relying on

00:10:59.501 --> 00:11:02.364
this Google Play API to determine like

00:11:02.403 --> 00:11:04.325
whether your phone is secure and obviously

00:11:04.965 --> 00:11:07.346
That only works on play certified devices

00:11:07.405 --> 00:11:08.625
and you have to have all of this

00:11:09.186 --> 00:11:11.966
invasive background system apps running

00:11:12.246 --> 00:11:13.586
and You have to give a lot of

00:11:13.647 --> 00:11:15.307
access to Google for them to give you

00:11:16.548 --> 00:11:17.607
the okay,

00:11:17.687 --> 00:11:20.269
okay to access your your own financial

00:11:20.328 --> 00:11:23.610
information, right, so Yeah,

00:11:23.950 --> 00:11:28.051
I think this could be a really great

00:11:30.232 --> 00:11:30.472
thing,

00:11:30.513 --> 00:11:31.812
if they can get this across the finish

00:11:31.852 --> 00:11:32.072
line,

00:11:32.232 --> 00:11:34.114
I think that it's going to be a

00:11:34.153 --> 00:11:38.634
challenge for sure to get people to adopt

00:11:38.654 --> 00:11:39.475
this technology,

00:11:39.554 --> 00:11:41.375
especially if they can't get it into

00:11:41.535 --> 00:11:42.855
Android first party.

00:11:42.895 --> 00:11:43.655
Because we've seen,

00:11:45.157 --> 00:11:46.677
like Graphene OS we'll talk about on their

00:11:46.697 --> 00:11:47.157
website,

00:11:47.537 --> 00:11:50.878
there is a way to run some sort

00:11:50.918 --> 00:11:53.097
of attestations that's just built into

00:11:53.177 --> 00:11:53.577
Android.

00:11:53.638 --> 00:11:55.839
And they support that from a hardware

00:11:55.879 --> 00:11:56.399
perspective.

00:11:57.278 --> 00:11:58.759
And I'm not sure exactly how this is

00:11:58.779 --> 00:11:59.340
going to go.

00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:02.322
further than that existing option that

00:12:02.341 --> 00:12:03.283
Graphene OS has.

00:12:04.363 --> 00:12:08.246
But I think the fact that all of

00:12:08.267 --> 00:12:10.869
these banking apps are not adopting that

00:12:10.928 --> 00:12:11.528
means that,

00:12:12.070 --> 00:12:14.491
or not adopting Graphene OS's alternative

00:12:14.552 --> 00:12:15.952
option right now means that there's some

00:12:15.993 --> 00:12:21.197
hurdle that we still have to overcome when

00:12:21.236 --> 00:12:21.817
it comes to this.

00:12:22.658 --> 00:12:25.159
So hopefully more of these custom ROM

00:12:25.299 --> 00:12:27.361
developers banding together can

00:12:29.004 --> 00:12:31.028
get us over the finish line to make

00:12:31.048 --> 00:12:31.951
this more widespread.

00:12:32.532 --> 00:12:34.797
But yeah, I don't know.

00:12:36.538 --> 00:12:37.259
We'll see.

00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:38.200
That's all I can say.

00:12:38.659 --> 00:12:39.879
Did you have any thoughts on this story?

00:12:40.340 --> 00:12:41.100
Not too much more.

00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:42.681
Totally irrelevant,

00:12:42.701 --> 00:12:43.581
but I just want to point out real

00:12:43.601 --> 00:12:43.782
quick,

00:12:43.822 --> 00:12:44.961
I just noticed at the bottom of this

00:12:44.981 --> 00:12:45.261
page,

00:12:45.282 --> 00:12:46.682
there is the Share on Mastodon button.

00:12:46.702 --> 00:12:47.403
Oh, really?

00:12:47.442 --> 00:12:47.962
Yeah,

00:12:48.062 --> 00:12:49.563
which just came out a couple weeks ago.

00:12:49.583 --> 00:12:51.104
There's now like an official Share on

00:12:51.144 --> 00:12:51.764
Mastodon.

00:12:51.865 --> 00:12:53.325
And this is a pretty big publication.

00:12:53.345 --> 00:12:54.385
I don't know how it's pronounced,

00:12:54.426 --> 00:12:56.625
but like heist.de.

00:12:56.706 --> 00:12:57.826
It's a German publication.

00:12:57.886 --> 00:12:58.846
I see them pop up a lot.

00:12:58.907 --> 00:12:59.648
So that's really cool.

00:12:59.908 --> 00:13:00.488
That is cool.

00:13:00.528 --> 00:13:02.489
I will say on our own news articles

00:13:02.548 --> 00:13:02.948
on our site,

00:13:02.989 --> 00:13:03.708
we added that button

00:13:03.788 --> 00:13:04.090
Oh, yeah.

00:13:04.389 --> 00:13:05.390
We had that, like, same day.

00:13:05.451 --> 00:13:06.533
You were on that.

00:13:07.835 --> 00:13:08.655
So if you want to check it out,

00:13:08.676 --> 00:13:09.356
you can do that.

00:13:09.397 --> 00:13:09.937
But, yeah,

00:13:10.057 --> 00:13:11.760
I hope to see other publications about

00:13:11.801 --> 00:13:12.201
that.

00:13:12.261 --> 00:13:13.062
Yeah.

00:13:13.082 --> 00:13:14.524
But, yeah, in regards to the actual story,

00:13:14.644 --> 00:13:15.145
I agree.

00:13:15.206 --> 00:13:16.246
It's especially...

00:13:17.668 --> 00:13:20.230
especially with the ROMs where you can't

00:13:20.250 --> 00:13:22.614
lock the bootloader, like EOS and Lineage,

00:13:22.693 --> 00:13:23.975
or maybe with EOE you can,

00:13:24.035 --> 00:13:25.636
but like with Lineage, for example,

00:13:25.677 --> 00:13:26.778
I know a lot of these banking apps

00:13:26.818 --> 00:13:27.480
don't run at all,

00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:29.282
which it's already frustrating enough that

00:13:29.302 --> 00:13:30.363
when you move to one of these custom

00:13:30.403 --> 00:13:30.763
ROMs,

00:13:31.163 --> 00:13:34.027
you can't use like Google Pay or anything

00:13:34.047 --> 00:13:34.346
anymore,

00:13:34.388 --> 00:13:35.828
which is super frustrating because I've

00:13:35.849 --> 00:13:36.129
actually...

00:13:36.509 --> 00:13:37.070
I'm not going to lie,

00:13:37.110 --> 00:13:38.850
ever since Privacy.com rolled out their

00:13:39.111 --> 00:13:39.812
mobile pay cards,

00:13:39.912 --> 00:13:41.653
I've been using Apple Pay like crazy.

00:13:42.754 --> 00:13:44.235
Just because I have an iPhone,

00:13:44.355 --> 00:13:45.274
it doesn't have a SIM card in it

00:13:45.294 --> 00:13:45.755
or anything.

00:13:46.576 --> 00:13:48.356
But I loaded a privacy card in there

00:13:48.376 --> 00:13:48.897
and I'm like, cool,

00:13:48.937 --> 00:13:49.758
now I don't have to use a debit

00:13:49.778 --> 00:13:50.018
card.

00:13:50.418 --> 00:13:51.119
And it's super,

00:13:51.158 --> 00:13:53.139
super convenient and it's super nifty.

00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:56.121
But there's nothing like that on a custom

00:13:56.142 --> 00:13:57.722
phone, a custom Google,

00:13:57.743 --> 00:13:59.504
or you know what I'm trying to say,

00:14:00.004 --> 00:14:00.904
a custom operating system.

00:14:00.924 --> 00:14:01.184
Yeah.

00:14:01.424 --> 00:14:03.725
And I know some banks,

00:14:03.986 --> 00:14:05.547
from what I'm told, some banks,

00:14:05.647 --> 00:14:07.649
if they offer like, oh, in their app,

00:14:07.688 --> 00:14:08.769
they have their own little payment.

00:14:09.048 --> 00:14:09.789
You can use that.

00:14:10.049 --> 00:14:11.150
But my bank is not one of them.

00:14:11.270 --> 00:14:12.250
So I can't do that.

00:14:12.270 --> 00:14:14.371
And it's just a real bummer.

00:14:14.412 --> 00:14:16.234
So hopefully this is something that will

00:14:16.254 --> 00:14:17.014
solve this issue.

00:14:17.033 --> 00:14:19.134
And maybe we could start to see more

00:14:19.215 --> 00:14:19.855
options in general.

00:14:19.875 --> 00:14:20.495
Because it is crazy.

00:14:20.576 --> 00:14:22.496
And our official recommendation is still

00:14:22.517 --> 00:14:23.076
Graphene OS.

00:14:23.096 --> 00:14:23.778
It's very secure.

00:14:23.798 --> 00:14:24.538
It's very private.

00:14:25.019 --> 00:14:25.219
But...

00:14:25.999 --> 00:14:26.479
at the end of the day,

00:14:26.499 --> 00:14:27.100
it's your phone.

00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:28.179
And if you know the risks and if

00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:29.240
you have a reason and it's your,

00:14:29.341 --> 00:14:30.481
you fits your threat model and you want

00:14:30.501 --> 00:14:31.241
to go with something else,

00:14:31.282 --> 00:14:32.702
like it's your phone, you can do that.

00:14:33.163 --> 00:14:34.904
And you should still have the ability to

00:14:35.144 --> 00:14:37.225
use, uh, you know, your banking at,

00:14:37.245 --> 00:14:38.106
like you said, like, Oh,

00:14:38.147 --> 00:14:39.408
you can't even access your financial

00:14:39.427 --> 00:14:39.847
information,

00:14:40.128 --> 00:14:41.729
which is insane because it's your bank.

00:14:41.769 --> 00:14:42.870
It's your account.

00:14:43.230 --> 00:14:44.130
It's your phone.

00:14:44.191 --> 00:14:45.091
Yeah, exactly.

00:14:45.292 --> 00:14:45.871
But it's like, Oh,

00:14:45.892 --> 00:14:47.253
because you don't have this proprietary

00:14:47.293 --> 00:14:48.133
code or whatever running.

00:14:48.192 --> 00:14:48.734
So yeah, that's,

00:14:49.234 --> 00:14:50.695
I'm really glad to see this coming around.

00:14:50.715 --> 00:14:52.816
And I really hope that, um,

00:14:52.836 --> 00:14:53.376
that it will, uh,

00:14:54.562 --> 00:14:56.504
It will work out and become a thing.

00:14:57.985 --> 00:14:59.066
Yeah, Mr. Rabbit here said,

00:14:59.105 --> 00:15:01.028
sounds amazing to finally have some nice

00:15:01.048 --> 00:15:02.688
payment system on Graphene OS.

00:15:04.130 --> 00:15:06.312
So yeah, pretty cool stuff.

00:15:06.332 --> 00:15:06.432
Great.

00:15:09.475 --> 00:15:10.176
Where are we?

00:15:11.208 --> 00:15:13.190
I think we should probably talk about some

00:15:13.970 --> 00:15:15.649
site updates from Privacy Guides.

00:15:16.450 --> 00:15:19.291
So before we dive into our next topic,

00:15:19.650 --> 00:15:20.431
DuckDuckGo,

00:15:21.351 --> 00:15:22.572
let's give some quick updates about what

00:15:22.631 --> 00:15:23.831
we've been working at at Privacy Guides

00:15:23.851 --> 00:15:24.172
this week.

00:15:24.572 --> 00:15:26.452
And for those of you who are new

00:15:26.592 --> 00:15:27.913
to the show, who don't know,

00:15:28.253 --> 00:15:30.134
Privacy Guides is a nonprofit which

00:15:30.394 --> 00:15:32.715
researches and shares privacy-related

00:15:32.855 --> 00:15:33.355
information.

00:15:33.855 --> 00:15:36.096
And we facilitate a community on our forum

00:15:36.135 --> 00:15:37.456
and on Matrix where people can

00:15:38.035 --> 00:15:38.796
ask questions,

00:15:39.015 --> 00:15:40.777
and get advice about staying private

00:15:40.937 --> 00:15:43.017
online and preserving their digital

00:15:43.057 --> 00:15:43.376
rights.

00:15:44.937 --> 00:15:46.618
So Nate has, as always,

00:15:46.658 --> 00:15:48.217
been working very hard on the video side

00:15:48.258 --> 00:15:48.638
of things,

00:15:48.677 --> 00:15:49.957
so do you want to give us some

00:15:50.019 --> 00:15:51.578
updates on how that's going?

00:15:52.058 --> 00:15:52.418
Sure.

00:15:52.979 --> 00:15:54.558
Me and Jordan both, it's not all me,

00:15:54.578 --> 00:15:56.840
it's team effort, but speaking of that,

00:15:58.379 --> 00:15:59.821
our private messaging video is now

00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:01.721
available for Early Access members.

00:16:02.341 --> 00:16:04.121
So if you are a member on YouTube,

00:16:04.142 --> 00:16:06.004
which actually I do want to shout out,

00:16:06.703 --> 00:16:08.485
somebody did join earlier today.

00:16:09.466 --> 00:16:11.988
Joey Wardock became a member on YouTube.

00:16:12.028 --> 00:16:12.967
We really appreciate that.

00:16:12.988 --> 00:16:13.428
Thanks for joining.

00:16:13.828 --> 00:16:15.950
And we also,

00:16:17.431 --> 00:16:19.413
if you join on our forum,

00:16:19.952 --> 00:16:21.933
then you can get early access to videos

00:16:22.053 --> 00:16:22.394
as well.

00:16:23.095 --> 00:16:24.196
So, yeah,

00:16:24.316 --> 00:16:25.937
any one of those people can now go

00:16:25.957 --> 00:16:26.958
ahead and view that right now.

00:16:27.438 --> 00:16:30.763
And Jonah also rushed out in the sense

00:16:30.783 --> 00:16:31.503
of quick turnaround.

00:16:31.543 --> 00:16:33.885
Jonah put out a video about Proton's kill

00:16:33.905 --> 00:16:37.188
switch on Apple devices and how that is

00:16:38.230 --> 00:16:39.350
a little bit problematic.

00:16:39.711 --> 00:16:40.712
And I think we're going to talk about

00:16:40.732 --> 00:16:41.933
that a little more later in the show

00:16:41.974 --> 00:16:42.374
as well.

00:16:42.553 --> 00:16:44.856
But that is available publicly for

00:16:44.917 --> 00:16:45.977
everyone who wants to go see it.

00:16:46.778 --> 00:16:48.659
I'm sure probably some of you have seen

00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:49.159
that video.

00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:51.822
It definitely got some attention and we

00:16:51.861 --> 00:16:55.926
made some changes to our site regarding

00:16:55.966 --> 00:16:56.206
this.

00:16:56.485 --> 00:16:59.528
So we updated our criteria around VPN kill

00:16:59.548 --> 00:17:00.989
switches and we added a warning for

00:17:01.049 --> 00:17:01.470
Proton.

00:17:02.750 --> 00:17:06.433
Basically the gist of the video was that

00:17:06.894 --> 00:17:08.555
the kill switch wasn't working on Mac OS

00:17:08.575 --> 00:17:09.715
when you switch between servers.

00:17:09.736 --> 00:17:11.718
So there's a brief period of time where

00:17:12.538 --> 00:17:14.319
your IP could be exposed and Proton wasn't

00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:15.099
very clear about that.

00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.202
So the day after we published that video,

00:17:18.623 --> 00:17:21.484
Proton responded on our form with a lot

00:17:21.625 --> 00:17:24.567
of details and they also confirmed that

00:17:24.586 --> 00:17:26.808
they were updating their documentation.

00:17:26.828 --> 00:17:28.529
So now it's very clear that this can

00:17:28.549 --> 00:17:31.732
happen both in their documentation for the

00:17:31.752 --> 00:17:34.454
kill switch right now and in the upcoming

00:17:35.296 --> 00:17:37.998
update of their ProtonVPN app on macOS.

00:17:38.758 --> 00:17:41.881
It'll have a bolded warning basically when

00:17:41.901 --> 00:17:43.362
you turn on the kill switch telling you

00:17:43.521 --> 00:17:44.662
that this is happening.

00:17:44.962 --> 00:17:47.223
And they also committed to fixing this

00:17:47.263 --> 00:17:47.644
problem.

00:17:49.165 --> 00:17:51.207
Hopefully this year they said,

00:17:51.406 --> 00:17:52.028
I think they said

00:17:53.285 --> 00:17:53.905
Spring or summer?

00:17:53.945 --> 00:17:55.387
I know they said summer.

00:17:56.569 --> 00:17:58.011
Spring and summer roadmap, I think.

00:17:58.071 --> 00:17:59.114
Yeah, that's what I remember.

00:17:59.193 --> 00:18:02.378
So hopefully it doesn't take too long for

00:18:02.398 --> 00:18:02.900
them to do that,

00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:06.204
but obviously it'll be a bit of work,

00:18:06.244 --> 00:18:06.566
I think.

00:18:09.073 --> 00:18:11.276
There's two things going on here.

00:18:11.435 --> 00:18:13.097
It's tricky because Apple certainly

00:18:13.137 --> 00:18:14.558
doesn't make it easy to make a kill

00:18:14.598 --> 00:18:15.800
switch in the first place,

00:18:15.921 --> 00:18:17.321
and they're kind of dealing within the

00:18:17.362 --> 00:18:18.202
constraints of that.

00:18:19.765 --> 00:18:20.365
But also,

00:18:20.766 --> 00:18:22.087
I think the bigger issue that we had

00:18:22.127 --> 00:18:24.190
was just how their documentation wasn't

00:18:24.230 --> 00:18:25.951
clear so that people who are on Mac

00:18:26.011 --> 00:18:26.292
OS

00:18:28.874 --> 00:18:30.213
are affected and they might not even know.

00:18:30.374 --> 00:18:31.654
Whereas now at least you know and you

00:18:31.674 --> 00:18:33.394
can plan accordingly.

00:18:35.875 --> 00:18:37.776
Other stuff on the site, as usual,

00:18:37.875 --> 00:18:39.737
Freya has been putting out a lot of

00:18:40.237 --> 00:18:42.136
news articles lately at privacyguides.org

00:18:42.156 --> 00:18:42.676
slash news.

00:18:42.997 --> 00:18:45.077
So there's been more news briefs about AI

00:18:45.157 --> 00:18:48.558
agent threats, some new corona malware,

00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:49.398
and a lot more.

00:18:49.459 --> 00:18:51.298
So if you want to visit privacyguides.org

00:18:51.338 --> 00:18:51.920
slash news,

00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:54.759
that is a great way to keep up

00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:56.980
with updates in this space because we try

00:18:57.020 --> 00:18:57.800
to keep you and

00:18:57.840 --> 00:18:59.481
informed on privacy and security.

00:19:00.602 --> 00:19:01.682
All of the work that we do here

00:19:01.781 --> 00:19:03.962
is made possible by our supporters.

00:19:04.123 --> 00:19:05.463
You can sign up for a membership or

00:19:05.503 --> 00:19:08.644
you can donate at privacyguides.org slash

00:19:08.704 --> 00:19:11.205
donate or you can pick up some swag

00:19:11.605 --> 00:19:13.946
at shop.privacyguides.org.

00:19:15.451 --> 00:19:16.512
I think that's all for updates.

00:19:16.573 --> 00:19:18.775
Let's talk about DuckDuckGo.

00:19:19.736 --> 00:19:21.377
DuckDuckGo.

00:19:21.718 --> 00:19:22.019
Okay.

00:19:22.659 --> 00:19:22.778
No,

00:19:22.818 --> 00:19:25.281
this is actually pretty interesting stuff,

00:19:25.321 --> 00:19:26.923
kind of complicated stuff in my opinion.

00:19:27.984 --> 00:19:30.027
So this comes from their sub stack,

00:19:30.166 --> 00:19:31.307
which I did not know they have.

00:19:31.428 --> 00:19:32.429
I think they have a blog and a

00:19:32.469 --> 00:19:32.848
sub stack.

00:19:33.569 --> 00:19:35.070
um but this is uh this is actually

00:19:35.090 --> 00:19:36.152
a pretty short video it's only about

00:19:36.192 --> 00:19:37.933
thirteen minutes if you all want to go

00:19:38.094 --> 00:19:39.474
watch it on your own time but um

00:19:40.296 --> 00:19:42.257
it's uh it says why duck.go is building

00:19:42.356 --> 00:19:44.558
its own web search index and actually if

00:19:44.578 --> 00:19:45.680
you don't even want to watch the video

00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:47.340
they do have the uh the transcript down

00:19:47.401 --> 00:19:49.583
here but it says it was like um

00:19:49.702 --> 00:19:51.825
unedited probably automatically generated

00:19:51.884 --> 00:19:53.626
so uh personally i found it a little

00:19:53.646 --> 00:19:54.748
bit hard to follow i ended up just

00:19:54.768 --> 00:19:57.650
watching the video but um basically yeah

00:19:57.690 --> 00:19:59.191
like the the title says duck.go is

00:19:59.230 --> 00:20:01.972
building their own web search index um

00:20:02.854 --> 00:20:05.776
The why is kind of confusing in my

00:20:05.796 --> 00:20:06.096
opinion.

00:20:06.536 --> 00:20:11.939
It seems to be motivated by AI.

00:20:11.999 --> 00:20:13.519
It's something about wanting to like,

00:20:14.299 --> 00:20:15.681
I think they're trying to like have more

00:20:15.721 --> 00:20:17.321
control over the training data for their

00:20:17.382 --> 00:20:18.742
AI summaries and stuff like that.

00:20:20.083 --> 00:20:21.564
Which is a really weird reason,

00:20:21.584 --> 00:20:22.125
in my opinion.

00:20:22.964 --> 00:20:24.125
But I will admit,

00:20:24.746 --> 00:20:26.887
one of my concerns with DuckDuckGo has

00:20:26.988 --> 00:20:27.587
long been,

00:20:27.688 --> 00:20:30.569
and this has just been kind of a

00:20:30.609 --> 00:20:32.230
concern of mine in general in the privacy

00:20:32.250 --> 00:20:32.530
space,

00:20:32.891 --> 00:20:35.313
which is that a lot of these search

00:20:35.373 --> 00:20:36.354
engines that we rely on,

00:20:36.394 --> 00:20:37.794
like DuckDuckGo and Startpage,

00:20:38.375 --> 00:20:39.976
they're not really their own search

00:20:40.016 --> 00:20:40.296
engines.

00:20:40.695 --> 00:20:41.817
they're meta search engines they're

00:20:41.836 --> 00:20:44.038
basically a proxy for like Google or Bing

00:20:44.077 --> 00:20:47.398
or somebody else and that really puts them

00:20:47.538 --> 00:20:49.039
at the mercy of those companies like

00:20:49.059 --> 00:20:51.441
DuckDuckGo caught a lot of slack a few

00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:55.303
years ago for censoring things and some of

00:20:55.323 --> 00:20:56.303
it I mean this has happened a couple

00:20:56.343 --> 00:20:57.423
times so I'm not talking about every

00:20:57.443 --> 00:20:59.204
single instance this has happened but in

00:20:59.265 --> 00:21:01.346
some of these cases it's not that they

00:21:01.385 --> 00:21:02.746
were censoring it it's that Bing was

00:21:02.786 --> 00:21:04.227
censoring it and since Bing is their

00:21:04.267 --> 00:21:06.367
primary search engine they censored it as

00:21:06.387 --> 00:21:07.627
a result and

00:21:08.930 --> 00:21:09.674
Yeah, it's just really...

00:21:11.263 --> 00:21:11.384
it's,

00:21:11.503 --> 00:21:12.785
it's not a good position to be in.

00:21:12.964 --> 00:21:14.046
And so, um,

00:21:14.165 --> 00:21:15.467
I'm a really big fan personally of like

00:21:15.487 --> 00:21:16.027
brave search,

00:21:16.047 --> 00:21:17.067
but I understand brave is a very

00:21:17.107 --> 00:21:18.008
controversial company.

00:21:18.548 --> 00:21:18.648
Uh,

00:21:18.828 --> 00:21:20.950
Mojica I think is another like independent

00:21:21.069 --> 00:21:22.351
one, but, um,

00:21:22.651 --> 00:21:24.031
I know their UI is not always great.

00:21:24.051 --> 00:21:25.692
So it's just the point being is that

00:21:25.712 --> 00:21:25.813
it's,

00:21:25.913 --> 00:21:27.874
it's really good to see more of these,

00:21:27.993 --> 00:21:29.894
these search engines kind of like trying

00:21:29.914 --> 00:21:31.215
to break out on their own and create,

00:21:31.536 --> 00:21:32.957
even if I don't think AI is a

00:21:32.997 --> 00:21:34.557
good reason to do it, you know,

00:21:34.617 --> 00:21:35.498
it's kind of one of those, like,

00:21:35.858 --> 00:21:36.638
don't know how we got here,

00:21:36.659 --> 00:21:37.779
but I'm glad we're here kind of thing.

00:21:37.819 --> 00:21:39.300
So I'm really happy to see them, uh,

00:21:40.020 --> 00:21:42.103
um branching out on their own i think

00:21:42.143 --> 00:21:44.465
my big question about this story is do

00:21:44.486 --> 00:21:47.209
you know whether um they're gonna take an

00:21:47.229 --> 00:21:48.891
approach kind of like what brave search

00:21:48.911 --> 00:21:51.313
did where at least initially they were

00:21:51.353 --> 00:21:53.996
kind of like doing a hybrid approach where

00:21:54.036 --> 00:21:56.438
it was still based on google and bing

00:21:56.558 --> 00:21:58.681
i wonder because duck ducko has worked

00:21:58.701 --> 00:22:00.682
with thing for a long time yeah and

00:22:00.722 --> 00:22:01.884
they do say i saw

00:22:02.805 --> 00:22:05.227
in this video that they've been working on

00:22:05.287 --> 00:22:10.571
this like indexing on their own for for

00:22:10.592 --> 00:22:11.952
a few years now so yeah I saw

00:22:11.972 --> 00:22:14.115
that too it's been it's been in the

00:22:14.134 --> 00:22:16.036
works apparently for quite a while yeah I

00:22:16.056 --> 00:22:18.258
don't know I don't know if you saw

00:22:18.278 --> 00:22:19.239
or if they said in this video

00:22:21.288 --> 00:22:22.569
whether it's going to be a hybrid approach

00:22:22.609 --> 00:22:23.210
like that or not.

00:22:23.609 --> 00:22:24.890
I do think it was interesting at the

00:22:24.930 --> 00:22:25.451
end of this video,

00:22:25.471 --> 00:22:27.151
they said if you have questions,

00:22:27.171 --> 00:22:28.010
you can reach out to them.

00:22:28.030 --> 00:22:29.392
They might try to address more of this

00:22:29.412 --> 00:22:29.892
in the future,

00:22:29.971 --> 00:22:31.553
so keeping up with these updates will

00:22:32.212 --> 00:22:33.532
definitely be something we want to do.

00:22:34.294 --> 00:22:34.973
Yeah, for sure.

00:22:35.594 --> 00:22:36.034
I am actually,

00:22:36.094 --> 00:22:37.875
my RSS feed is subscribed to their blog,

00:22:37.914 --> 00:22:39.336
so hopefully I will see more.

00:22:39.476 --> 00:22:41.036
I don't know why they didn't put this

00:22:41.076 --> 00:22:43.217
on their blog, but yeah, no,

00:22:43.237 --> 00:22:44.517
they didn't specifically address that,

00:22:44.537 --> 00:22:45.298
but I noticed that too.

00:22:45.337 --> 00:22:46.557
They just kind of casually slipped that in

00:22:46.577 --> 00:22:46.978
there, like, yeah,

00:22:47.018 --> 00:22:48.058
we've been working on this for a couple

00:22:48.078 --> 00:22:48.598
years, and I'm like...

00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:50.836
Okay, cool.

00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:52.282
Which I get it.

00:22:52.303 --> 00:22:52.664
You know, in...

00:22:54.231 --> 00:22:55.952
I'm a really big Nine Inch Nails fan

00:22:56.153 --> 00:22:58.012
and Trent Reznor over the years has been

00:22:58.053 --> 00:23:00.074
involved in like so many other projects

00:23:00.114 --> 00:23:00.653
and bands.

00:23:00.854 --> 00:23:02.173
And he said in an interview one time,

00:23:02.213 --> 00:23:04.134
he's like, yeah, we, we kind of,

00:23:04.154 --> 00:23:06.276
cause I'm kind of getting the lore here,

00:23:06.316 --> 00:23:08.496
but he was supposed to be in this

00:23:08.516 --> 00:23:09.415
band called tapeworm.

00:23:09.497 --> 00:23:10.436
That was like him.

00:23:10.596 --> 00:23:11.497
And I think some of the guys from

00:23:11.557 --> 00:23:13.738
tool and just like all these like really,

00:23:13.778 --> 00:23:14.397
really big bands,

00:23:14.417 --> 00:23:15.438
but it never materialized.

00:23:15.557 --> 00:23:16.439
Nothing ever came out of it.

00:23:16.818 --> 00:23:18.078
And so he straight up said in interviews,

00:23:18.118 --> 00:23:18.439
he's like,

00:23:18.818 --> 00:23:20.400
I learned from that incident to just keep

00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:20.960
my mouth shut.

00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:22.861
because so many people were disappointed

00:23:22.881 --> 00:23:24.241
that nothing ever came out of tapeworm.

00:23:24.261 --> 00:23:26.663
So I, I totally understand their whole,

00:23:26.683 --> 00:23:26.903
like,

00:23:26.943 --> 00:23:28.405
let's just keep this on the download until

00:23:28.425 --> 00:23:28.766
we're ready.

00:23:28.786 --> 00:23:30.406
But yeah, it's, it's surprising.

00:23:30.446 --> 00:23:31.067
Like when, you know,

00:23:31.107 --> 00:23:31.988
like Beyonce is just like,

00:23:32.008 --> 00:23:32.729
here's a whole album.

00:23:32.769 --> 00:23:33.690
It's like, Whoa, what?

00:23:33.809 --> 00:23:35.691
So yeah, that,

00:23:35.730 --> 00:23:36.771
that really came out of nowhere,

00:23:36.811 --> 00:23:38.614
but I think they probably will do the

00:23:38.653 --> 00:23:39.894
whole hybrid thing for now.

00:23:40.075 --> 00:23:41.855
Um, but I will be interested to see,

00:23:41.915 --> 00:23:43.998
it would be cool if they do eventually,

00:23:44.178 --> 00:23:44.218
um,

00:23:45.487 --> 00:23:46.847
go full in on their own.

00:23:46.907 --> 00:23:48.429
Like, Brave is kind of like,

00:23:48.568 --> 00:23:49.950
ninety percent Brave at this point.

00:23:50.049 --> 00:23:50.589
Yeah.

00:23:50.631 --> 00:23:50.891
So...

00:23:51.911 --> 00:23:54.532
Jordan said in the comments that they've

00:23:54.573 --> 00:23:56.114
found Brave's custom search engine has

00:23:56.134 --> 00:23:58.316
been not super great for people outside

00:23:58.336 --> 00:23:58.695
the US,

00:23:58.736 --> 00:24:00.696
so that could be something to consider.

00:24:01.938 --> 00:24:02.438
I didn't know that.

00:24:02.638 --> 00:24:04.400
Thank you for the perspective.

00:24:04.420 --> 00:24:05.480
Yeah, we'll have to look more into that,

00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:05.760
but...

00:24:06.560 --> 00:24:07.902
Because I know DuckDuckGo right now,

00:24:07.981 --> 00:24:08.301
they...

00:24:09.303 --> 00:24:10.564
And sometimes this causes problems,

00:24:10.584 --> 00:24:11.183
but they do, like,

00:24:11.223 --> 00:24:12.505
have that country selector where you can

00:24:12.525 --> 00:24:12.865
see, like,

00:24:12.884 --> 00:24:14.306
country-specific search results.

00:24:15.919 --> 00:24:16.859
DuckDuckGo is...

00:24:18.040 --> 00:24:20.201
I've been using DuckDuckGo as my main

00:24:20.221 --> 00:24:21.202
search engine for a while,

00:24:21.262 --> 00:24:22.703
but it is kind of hit or miss

00:24:22.723 --> 00:24:24.065
for me, especially with certain topics,

00:24:24.105 --> 00:24:24.586
unfortunately.

00:24:25.185 --> 00:24:26.146
Some things that really...

00:24:27.682 --> 00:24:29.103
is dialed in on and can do super

00:24:29.143 --> 00:24:29.363
well,

00:24:29.403 --> 00:24:30.583
but I feel like it's a lot of

00:24:30.962 --> 00:24:32.983
keyword-based searches rather than,

00:24:33.124 --> 00:24:34.944
I don't know,

00:24:34.964 --> 00:24:35.664
I have to look up a lot of

00:24:35.704 --> 00:24:37.425
more technical stuff a lot of the time,

00:24:37.465 --> 00:24:39.145
and just trying to find out the answer

00:24:39.165 --> 00:24:40.946
to a question can be challenging if I

00:24:40.967 --> 00:24:43.067
don't know exactly what to look up,

00:24:43.107 --> 00:24:45.509
which some other search engines are better

00:24:45.548 --> 00:24:45.949
at.

00:24:45.989 --> 00:24:47.809
But yeah, it'll be cool.

00:24:47.869 --> 00:24:50.830
iLook.gov, so it's exciting stuff.

00:24:51.431 --> 00:24:52.090
Yeah, definitely.

00:24:52.111 --> 00:24:52.230
I mean,

00:24:52.250 --> 00:24:53.811
it's a win regardless whether you're a

00:24:53.852 --> 00:24:54.731
DuckDuckGo user or not,

00:24:54.751 --> 00:24:56.551
because they are probably the most popular

00:24:56.612 --> 00:24:58.613
search engine outside of Google and Bing.

00:24:58.673 --> 00:25:02.413
And then I did want to mention here,

00:25:02.574 --> 00:25:04.273
the four, two, what is that?

00:25:04.314 --> 00:25:04.653
Two, two,

00:25:04.673 --> 00:25:06.275
four said Brave and Kagi are the only

00:25:06.315 --> 00:25:07.615
exceptions I can think of when we were

00:25:07.634 --> 00:25:08.015
talking about,

00:25:08.035 --> 00:25:09.535
or when I was talking about how a

00:25:09.576 --> 00:25:10.776
lot of them are meta search engines.

00:25:11.695 --> 00:25:13.355
We don't officially recommend Kagi.

00:25:14.957 --> 00:25:15.396
I don't know why.

00:25:15.457 --> 00:25:16.517
Maybe we've just never looked at it or

00:25:16.537 --> 00:25:16.836
anything,

00:25:16.896 --> 00:25:18.438
but I have heard really good things about

00:25:18.498 --> 00:25:18.597
it.

00:25:18.738 --> 00:25:18.857
And

00:25:20.194 --> 00:25:20.875
About a month ago,

00:25:20.935 --> 00:25:23.497
Cory Doctorow gave an amazing interview on

00:25:23.517 --> 00:25:24.377
the Jordan Harbinger show,

00:25:24.417 --> 00:25:26.239
and he talked about Kagi a little bit.

00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:29.101
That's been discussed on our forum for a

00:25:29.141 --> 00:25:29.461
while.

00:25:29.601 --> 00:25:32.563
I think one of the big things,

00:25:32.762 --> 00:25:34.364
at least at the time,

00:25:34.845 --> 00:25:36.986
was kind of a feeling amongst a lot

00:25:37.006 --> 00:25:37.686
of people that

00:25:38.467 --> 00:25:40.407
this sort of stuff should be available for

00:25:40.448 --> 00:25:42.308
free because it's such an important thing

00:25:42.349 --> 00:25:44.351
for like a lot of people to switch

00:25:44.431 --> 00:25:44.671
over.

00:25:45.090 --> 00:25:46.211
And so like kind of for the same

00:25:46.251 --> 00:25:49.114
reason we have like, you know,

00:25:49.134 --> 00:25:50.454
like a web browser has to be free.

00:25:50.515 --> 00:25:51.996
It's kind of an access to information

00:25:52.016 --> 00:25:53.296
thing, which is challenging.

00:25:53.757 --> 00:25:54.616
But at the same time,

00:25:55.298 --> 00:25:57.898
I know Kagi has been growing and popular

00:25:58.200 --> 00:25:59.359
so much and a lot of people seem

00:25:59.380 --> 00:25:59.820
to like it.

00:25:59.901 --> 00:26:01.501
So it's probably time to take another.

00:26:02.438 --> 00:26:03.498
look at that.

00:26:03.577 --> 00:26:05.499
I think they do have the first hundred

00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:06.638
searches are free or something,

00:26:06.699 --> 00:26:07.578
which if you don't do a lot of

00:26:07.598 --> 00:26:09.299
searches, that's probably pretty good.

00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.019
But I know some days I do a

00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:12.760
lot of searching too.

00:26:12.780 --> 00:26:14.260
Some days that would probably work for me,

00:26:14.280 --> 00:26:15.501
but then other days I would run into

00:26:15.521 --> 00:26:16.261
that real quick.

00:26:16.301 --> 00:26:17.882
How many searches do you all think you

00:26:17.902 --> 00:26:18.423
do in a month?

00:26:18.502 --> 00:26:19.083
I'm curious.

00:26:19.262 --> 00:26:21.262
I feel like a hundred searches would be

00:26:22.044 --> 00:26:25.924
quite difficult for me to work within.

00:26:25.984 --> 00:26:26.625
It depends on the day.

00:26:26.664 --> 00:26:27.744
If I'm researching for a video,

00:26:27.825 --> 00:26:29.006
I'll blow through that in like an hour.

00:26:32.051 --> 00:26:32.231
Yeah,

00:26:32.272 --> 00:26:33.913
so there is a thread open on our

00:26:33.953 --> 00:26:35.596
forum, like with most tools.

00:26:35.655 --> 00:26:38.357
I think if anyone has any opinions they

00:26:38.397 --> 00:26:40.621
want to share, definitely let us know,

00:26:40.661 --> 00:26:43.262
because we should definitely take a look

00:26:43.282 --> 00:26:44.924
at it again.

00:26:44.944 --> 00:26:45.204
Google?

00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.221
I think that's everything for DuckDuckGo.

00:26:48.663 --> 00:26:49.063
In a minute,

00:26:49.083 --> 00:26:51.265
we're going to start taking viewer

00:26:51.325 --> 00:26:51.766
questions.

00:26:51.806 --> 00:26:53.988
So if you've been holding on to any

00:26:54.028 --> 00:26:55.549
questions about anything that we've talked

00:26:55.569 --> 00:26:59.773
about or what's going on here or anything

00:26:59.834 --> 00:27:00.994
else that you've seen in the community

00:27:01.035 --> 00:27:01.796
this week,

00:27:01.836 --> 00:27:03.176
you can go ahead and start leaving them

00:27:03.257 --> 00:27:06.200
either on the forum thread for this show

00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:07.540
or you can send them in the

00:27:08.541 --> 00:27:10.923
chat for this live stream um pretty much

00:27:10.982 --> 00:27:13.384
no matter what platform you're on we get

00:27:13.423 --> 00:27:14.924
all of that combined into one feed here

00:27:14.944 --> 00:27:16.786
so we should be able to catch any

00:27:16.806 --> 00:27:20.508
comments you send in um but for now

00:27:20.548 --> 00:27:22.008
let's check in on the community forum

00:27:22.028 --> 00:27:23.729
there's always a lot of activity on the

00:27:23.769 --> 00:27:25.569
forum of course but uh here's a few

00:27:25.589 --> 00:27:28.050
of the week's most interesting discussions

00:27:28.590 --> 00:27:29.112
of course

00:27:29.932 --> 00:27:33.212
The remove Proton VPN discussion was quite

00:27:33.252 --> 00:27:34.613
a big one and quite lengthy.

00:27:34.633 --> 00:27:38.013
And that was eventually split off into a

00:27:38.054 --> 00:27:38.934
couple different threads.

00:27:39.335 --> 00:27:39.934
But basically,

00:27:39.994 --> 00:27:41.655
this thread talked about a lot of issues

00:27:41.675 --> 00:27:42.635
that people had with Proton,

00:27:42.695 --> 00:27:44.776
especially that issue on macOS.

00:27:44.816 --> 00:27:46.797
But there's also an open thread on some,

00:27:47.656 --> 00:27:47.957
I'd say,

00:27:48.257 --> 00:27:50.357
peculiarities with their Linux kill

00:27:50.377 --> 00:27:50.778
switch.

00:27:51.278 --> 00:27:52.618
And then the big question of like,

00:27:53.999 --> 00:27:55.200
I think Proton has been aware of the

00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.402
Mac OS issue at least for quite a

00:27:57.442 --> 00:27:57.761
while.

00:27:58.001 --> 00:27:58.423
Well, actually,

00:27:58.442 --> 00:27:59.703
they've been aware of both of those issues

00:27:59.723 --> 00:28:00.163
for a while,

00:28:00.243 --> 00:28:03.826
but I don't think they weren't explicitly

00:28:05.067 --> 00:28:06.469
saying the wrong thing about the Linux

00:28:06.489 --> 00:28:07.009
situation.

00:28:07.028 --> 00:28:07.950
Whereas on Mac OS,

00:28:07.970 --> 00:28:08.910
they were pretty clear in their

00:28:08.950 --> 00:28:10.872
documentation that switching servers,

00:28:11.271 --> 00:28:13.634
the regular kill switch should protect

00:28:13.653 --> 00:28:13.874
you,

00:28:14.054 --> 00:28:15.474
and it doesn't because of Apple

00:28:15.515 --> 00:28:16.076
limitations.

00:28:17.036 --> 00:28:19.116
So I don't know if you are able

00:28:19.156 --> 00:28:21.416
to pull up, not this thread,

00:28:21.477 --> 00:28:23.077
but their reply.

00:28:24.718 --> 00:28:28.358
I think it was in this Proton's misleading

00:28:28.419 --> 00:28:29.199
marketing thread.

00:28:29.259 --> 00:28:31.220
Was there a second reply to us that

00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:32.279
I think would be good to pull up?

00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:35.101
Give me just a minute to find that

00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:35.621
one.

00:28:35.681 --> 00:28:36.040
Here we go.

00:28:36.681 --> 00:28:37.382
Do you want me to put it on

00:28:38.183 --> 00:28:38.364
screen?

00:28:38.384 --> 00:28:39.306
Yeah, I think so.

00:28:39.346 --> 00:28:40.327
Okay, let me find it real quick.

00:28:40.347 --> 00:28:42.070
It's post number forty-eight,

00:28:42.392 --> 00:28:44.115
so I'll just scroll down quite a bit.

00:28:44.134 --> 00:28:44.695
Yeah, give me a second.

00:28:46.318 --> 00:28:48.082
If you have the sidebar pulled up.

00:28:50.366 --> 00:28:51.507
Because they gave one response,

00:28:51.688 --> 00:28:53.748
which was very timely,

00:28:54.709 --> 00:28:56.230
and they did commit to fixing a lot

00:28:56.250 --> 00:28:56.769
of these issues.

00:28:56.829 --> 00:28:58.790
And they updated that documentation thread

00:28:58.810 --> 00:29:01.211
that I showed in the video right away.

00:29:01.332 --> 00:29:04.012
So that was good on them,

00:29:04.113 --> 00:29:05.874
but I think their initial response still

00:29:05.913 --> 00:29:06.733
left a lot of questions.

00:29:06.753 --> 00:29:09.255
So they left another response,

00:29:10.276 --> 00:29:11.715
which is this one, actually,

00:29:11.756 --> 00:29:13.656
with this picture.

00:29:13.737 --> 00:29:13.916
I mean,

00:29:13.977 --> 00:29:15.157
that was the original one that you're

00:29:15.178 --> 00:29:16.778
showing now, if that's on the screen.

00:29:17.818 --> 00:29:18.318
Okay, here we go.

00:29:20.372 --> 00:29:20.711
Yeah,

00:29:20.751 --> 00:29:21.951
the original one was the one I showed.

00:29:22.153 --> 00:29:22.512
Yeah.

00:29:22.573 --> 00:29:25.653
So this is the second reply where they

00:29:25.673 --> 00:29:26.773
showed exactly what they updated.

00:29:27.134 --> 00:29:29.534
And they showed a screenshot of the next

00:29:29.634 --> 00:29:30.534
update that I talked about.

00:29:30.653 --> 00:29:33.494
So maybe you can make that screenshot

00:29:33.535 --> 00:29:33.795
bigger.

00:29:33.855 --> 00:29:34.414
I don't know.

00:29:34.434 --> 00:29:36.175
But they basically say,

00:29:38.355 --> 00:29:39.316
in the client itself,

00:29:39.435 --> 00:29:41.517
your IP may be briefly visible when

00:29:41.537 --> 00:29:42.297
switching servers.

00:29:42.696 --> 00:29:44.218
And they include a link to their updated

00:29:44.258 --> 00:29:44.897
documentation.

00:29:47.384 --> 00:29:49.846
When that update is coming out,

00:29:49.926 --> 00:29:50.287
I don't know.

00:29:50.326 --> 00:29:52.269
But since it's coming out in the next

00:29:52.329 --> 00:29:52.589
update,

00:29:52.609 --> 00:29:54.192
they already have screenshots of it.

00:29:54.251 --> 00:29:56.294
I'd imagine it should be pretty soon.

00:29:56.314 --> 00:29:57.414
So I'm not too worried about that.

00:29:58.636 --> 00:29:59.698
But I'm glad that they fixed a lot

00:29:59.738 --> 00:30:00.258
of that stuff.

00:30:00.278 --> 00:30:02.381
They also said that they're working on a

00:30:02.421 --> 00:30:03.000
deeper fix.

00:30:03.020 --> 00:30:03.961
It's already in progress.

00:30:05.544 --> 00:30:07.026
In their post,

00:30:07.086 --> 00:30:09.528
they said that we've been rebuilding our

00:30:09.588 --> 00:30:11.131
network stack with a native WireGuard

00:30:11.191 --> 00:30:12.692
implementation developed in-house that

00:30:12.712 --> 00:30:14.094
includes a native kill switch,

00:30:14.575 --> 00:30:16.616
maintaining the tunnel through server

00:30:16.636 --> 00:30:17.077
switches.

00:30:17.798 --> 00:30:19.800
And like they said in the other post,

00:30:19.840 --> 00:30:21.663
the timeline for the fix is within the

00:30:21.702 --> 00:30:24.747
first half of our spring-summer roadmap

00:30:24.807 --> 00:30:25.067
cycle.

00:30:27.127 --> 00:30:29.568
So if they are able to get that

00:30:29.608 --> 00:30:31.670
done in the schedule that they're

00:30:32.130 --> 00:30:32.529
providing,

00:30:32.569 --> 00:30:34.070
I think that that would be great.

00:30:34.310 --> 00:30:35.490
But yeah,

00:30:35.510 --> 00:30:36.592
that was kind of the updates on all

00:30:36.612 --> 00:30:37.531
of that.

00:30:40.692 --> 00:30:42.854
I think their response is probably as good

00:30:42.894 --> 00:30:45.255
as you could probably reasonably expect

00:30:45.295 --> 00:30:46.115
given the situation.

00:30:47.215 --> 00:30:48.375
I'm glad that it was quick,

00:30:48.615 --> 00:30:51.696
although it took us making a video about

00:30:51.737 --> 00:30:53.798
it for them to make these changes instead

00:30:53.857 --> 00:30:53.897
of

00:30:56.436 --> 00:30:58.103
acting on the various reports.

00:31:00.470 --> 00:31:01.693
I think they said in one of these

00:31:01.733 --> 00:31:02.276
posts that

00:31:03.689 --> 00:31:05.028
Not a lot of people are on Mac

00:31:05.128 --> 00:31:05.209
OS.

00:31:05.229 --> 00:31:08.130
Yeah, I saw that post.

00:31:08.150 --> 00:31:11.109
There wasn't a very clear demonstration of

00:31:11.170 --> 00:31:13.951
this problem compared to what I did in

00:31:13.971 --> 00:31:14.990
the video where I showed it.

00:31:15.070 --> 00:31:16.490
I think there were a lot of reports,

00:31:16.511 --> 00:31:19.652
but I didn't find any major reports or

00:31:19.731 --> 00:31:21.932
reports that had gotten a lot of attention

00:31:22.053 --> 00:31:24.093
or upvotes or anything on their subreddit.

00:31:24.653 --> 00:31:26.272
But certainly the reports that there were

00:31:26.333 --> 00:31:27.973
that I found and that other people in

00:31:27.993 --> 00:31:28.794
our community found

00:31:31.567 --> 00:31:33.729
They were responded to by Proton support

00:31:33.749 --> 00:31:33.949
team.

00:31:34.229 --> 00:31:36.211
There was also that remove Proton VPN

00:31:36.250 --> 00:31:38.133
thread on our forum that was started in

00:31:38.212 --> 00:31:38.814
December.

00:31:39.094 --> 00:31:42.477
And I know Proton is somewhat active in

00:31:42.517 --> 00:31:43.758
Proton related threats on our forum.

00:31:43.817 --> 00:31:44.178
Obviously,

00:31:44.218 --> 00:31:45.619
they replied to us on our forum.

00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:48.642
So that thread did have a lot of

00:31:48.682 --> 00:31:49.083
attention.

00:31:49.442 --> 00:31:50.304
And I feel like

00:31:52.816 --> 00:31:56.019
It's strange and probably not great,

00:31:56.058 --> 00:31:56.680
in my opinion,

00:31:56.740 --> 00:31:58.402
that nobody in their support team seemed

00:31:58.422 --> 00:32:00.123
to have escalated this problem or been

00:32:00.163 --> 00:32:00.923
like, hey,

00:32:00.963 --> 00:32:03.446
can we have an engineer at least look

00:32:03.487 --> 00:32:04.067
into this?

00:32:04.327 --> 00:32:07.931
Because I think if they had,

00:32:08.571 --> 00:32:10.093
it's an extremely easy problem to

00:32:10.153 --> 00:32:10.673
reproduce.

00:32:11.674 --> 00:32:12.756
And you can do it on pretty much

00:32:12.855 --> 00:32:14.277
any Mac configuration.

00:32:14.738 --> 00:32:16.559
So yeah.

00:32:18.156 --> 00:32:18.837
A bit disappointing.

00:32:19.218 --> 00:32:23.641
I think that they acknowledge that in

00:32:23.681 --> 00:32:24.741
their reply to us.

00:32:25.061 --> 00:32:26.583
They basically said they don't have a

00:32:26.663 --> 00:32:28.785
satisfying answer to that question.

00:32:29.806 --> 00:32:31.386
So they can't really justify it or

00:32:31.426 --> 00:32:31.807
anything.

00:32:32.448 --> 00:32:35.390
But yeah, there certainly was a gap.

00:32:35.650 --> 00:32:36.009
I hope,

00:32:36.851 --> 00:32:38.092
I guess the most we can hope for

00:32:38.291 --> 00:32:40.513
in regards to that is just that they

00:32:40.534 --> 00:32:42.515
do better in the future about issues like

00:32:42.535 --> 00:32:45.438
this and try to address them more quickly.

00:32:47.300 --> 00:32:47.661
But yeah,

00:32:48.261 --> 00:32:49.863
all of these discussions on Proton,

00:32:51.263 --> 00:32:53.625
I wouldn't consider them fully resolved.

00:32:53.644 --> 00:32:55.226
They're still ongoing in our community.

00:32:57.903 --> 00:32:58.403
It's tricky.

00:32:59.045 --> 00:33:03.488
So it's tricky because I feel like a

00:33:03.548 --> 00:33:05.970
lot of the problems that we've seen with

00:33:06.150 --> 00:33:09.653
ProtonVPN in particular is stuff on their

00:33:09.673 --> 00:33:11.554
client side, their software isn't great.

00:33:11.634 --> 00:33:13.016
But the service that they provide,

00:33:13.395 --> 00:33:16.577
which is the main thing for a VPN,

00:33:16.657 --> 00:33:17.439
it's quality.

00:33:18.220 --> 00:33:19.279
And they have a free option,

00:33:19.299 --> 00:33:20.040
which is nice for people.

00:33:20.080 --> 00:33:21.561
And they have a wide server selection.

00:33:21.942 --> 00:33:23.663
And all of that stuff on the service

00:33:24.901 --> 00:33:26.582
server operator side of things is good.

00:33:26.622 --> 00:33:28.721
And so it's hard to say we shouldn't

00:33:28.761 --> 00:33:30.863
recommend ProtonVPN at all.

00:33:32.584 --> 00:33:35.084
But if you're offering a client like this

00:33:35.124 --> 00:33:36.125
with your VPN service,

00:33:36.184 --> 00:33:38.625
I do think that there needs to be

00:33:39.125 --> 00:33:42.626
some level of quality control there and

00:33:42.707 --> 00:33:45.067
certainly more accurate documentation on

00:33:45.107 --> 00:33:45.748
all of that.

00:33:45.768 --> 00:33:47.769
So I'm glad they updated it.

00:33:50.441 --> 00:33:52.461
But yeah, like I said, ongoing.

00:33:52.662 --> 00:33:54.782
If anyone has ProtonVPN opinions,

00:33:56.282 --> 00:33:58.163
feel free to share them on our forum.

00:33:58.243 --> 00:33:59.505
In any of these discussions,

00:34:00.464 --> 00:34:01.786
there's just a lot going on with them.

00:34:01.865 --> 00:34:04.567
But that's kind of the update for now.

00:34:04.807 --> 00:34:07.028
We'll see what their follow through is

00:34:07.067 --> 00:34:07.248
like.

00:34:08.666 --> 00:34:10.347
Yeah, it was a really good statement.

00:34:10.387 --> 00:34:11.429
I was really impressed with it,

00:34:12.090 --> 00:34:15.233
especially just the things like you said,

00:34:15.393 --> 00:34:19.599
why this wasn't surfaced more clearly to

00:34:19.659 --> 00:34:20.139
users sooner.

00:34:20.179 --> 00:34:21.362
We don't have a satisfying answer,

00:34:21.601 --> 00:34:23.023
just taking accountability like that.

00:34:24.746 --> 00:34:27.108
I think there are some very valid reasons

00:34:27.849 --> 00:34:31.313
complaints with Proton.

00:34:31.333 --> 00:34:32.934
Their Linux support is always very slow

00:34:32.974 --> 00:34:33.574
and lagging.

00:34:35.896 --> 00:34:38.538
Proton VPN on Linux is not a great

00:34:38.557 --> 00:34:39.018
experience.

00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:42.420
But it's like you said, they do provide.

00:34:42.442 --> 00:34:43.862
They're the only ones left that still do

00:34:43.963 --> 00:34:44.643
port forwarding,

00:34:44.802 --> 00:34:46.304
which is kind of a niche thing.

00:34:46.385 --> 00:34:49.706
But they are the only ones that have

00:34:49.726 --> 00:34:50.467
a free tier.

00:34:51.429 --> 00:34:52.989
They have a huge server selection,

00:34:53.030 --> 00:34:53.510
like you said.

00:34:53.570 --> 00:34:55.030
So they do have a lot of redeeming

00:34:55.070 --> 00:34:55.492
qualities.

00:34:57.213 --> 00:34:58.293
It's just, yeah.

00:34:59.675 --> 00:35:00.396
You know, it occurs to me,

00:35:00.456 --> 00:35:01.896
since they're notorious for not having

00:35:01.936 --> 00:35:03.277
feature parity between apps,

00:35:03.297 --> 00:35:04.438
why didn't they just remove the kill

00:35:04.458 --> 00:35:06.681
switch on the Mac app entirely?

00:35:06.701 --> 00:35:07.601
Honestly.

00:35:08.081 --> 00:35:09.362
That would have been such an easy fix.

00:35:10.264 --> 00:35:11.264
And nobody would have been shocked.

00:35:11.284 --> 00:35:11.724
It's just like, oh,

00:35:11.824 --> 00:35:13.565
there's Proton not having this feature on

00:35:13.626 --> 00:35:16.027
Mac.

00:35:16.047 --> 00:35:17.028
For all the trash I talk, though.

00:35:17.068 --> 00:35:18.010
But yeah, no.

00:35:18.250 --> 00:35:20.811
So it's good to see them responding to

00:35:20.851 --> 00:35:20.992
this.

00:35:21.432 --> 00:35:22.713
It is unfortunate that it kind of took

00:35:23.739 --> 00:35:25.501
you having to make a video and privacy

00:35:25.521 --> 00:35:27.161
guides having to call them out.

00:35:29.244 --> 00:35:33.786
It's really unfortunate that it's personal

00:35:33.827 --> 00:35:34.226
rant here,

00:35:34.246 --> 00:35:35.869
but it's frustrating that sometimes

00:35:35.929 --> 00:35:37.510
privacy companies behave just like big

00:35:37.550 --> 00:35:40.090
tech companies where Signal had this thing

00:35:40.211 --> 00:35:42.273
where the private keys were being stored

00:35:42.353 --> 00:35:43.353
unencrypted on Windows.

00:35:43.813 --> 00:35:45.135
And they made a very valid argument when

00:35:45.155 --> 00:35:45.594
they're like, well,

00:35:45.614 --> 00:35:47.817
if your machine is compromised,

00:35:48.036 --> 00:35:49.318
there's nothing we can do about that.

00:35:49.697 --> 00:35:50.478
But it's like, yes,

00:35:50.978 --> 00:35:52.641
But also, the fix is so easy.

00:35:52.701 --> 00:35:53.922
Why wouldn't you just roll it out?

00:35:54.041 --> 00:35:55.402
And it basically had to blow up into

00:35:55.422 --> 00:35:56.925
a whole thing before they finally did it.

00:35:57.525 --> 00:35:58.947
And it's just really frustrating when we

00:35:58.987 --> 00:36:01.168
have to see companies shamed into acting

00:36:01.188 --> 00:36:01.548
like this.

00:36:01.568 --> 00:36:01.969
And it's like,

00:36:02.389 --> 00:36:05.253
you're supposed to be better than this.

00:36:05.273 --> 00:36:06.634
We just got a comment from Mr.

00:36:06.673 --> 00:36:07.094
Rabbit here.

00:36:07.134 --> 00:36:08.215
Port forwarding is very niche.

00:36:08.235 --> 00:36:10.317
And that is true, but I will say,

00:36:10.637 --> 00:36:10.958
I think...

00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.400
BitTorrent in particular is a good reason

00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:16.400
that you would want to have port

00:36:16.420 --> 00:36:16.760
forwarding.

00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.081
And there's a lot of very legitimate

00:36:19.121 --> 00:36:21.943
reasons you would want to use torrenting.

00:36:23.103 --> 00:36:23.284
I mean,

00:36:23.344 --> 00:36:25.304
even mundane reasons like downloading

00:36:26.485 --> 00:36:26.925
Linux,

00:36:27.065 --> 00:36:28.766
you can alleviate bandwidth from those

00:36:28.786 --> 00:36:29.246
servers.

00:36:31.347 --> 00:36:31.967
In my case,

00:36:32.248 --> 00:36:35.472
I seed a lot of Qwix's libraries,

00:36:35.552 --> 00:36:37.894
so pretty much anything you can download

00:36:37.934 --> 00:36:39.956
for Qwix to have offline,

00:36:39.976 --> 00:36:41.918
like Wikipedia or any of the other stuff

00:36:41.938 --> 00:36:42.460
in their library,

00:36:42.739 --> 00:36:44.001
I pretty much have all of those hosted,

00:36:44.021 --> 00:36:45.824
and I seed all of them on BitTorrent.

00:36:46.344 --> 00:36:48.226
And the thing with torrents is...

00:36:49.815 --> 00:36:51.956
Even if you're downloading things that are

00:36:51.996 --> 00:36:52.697
perfectly legal,

00:36:52.717 --> 00:36:54.597
you might not necessarily want everyone to

00:36:54.637 --> 00:36:56.018
know what you're downloading.

00:36:56.119 --> 00:36:57.639
And there are certainly websites out there

00:36:57.659 --> 00:36:59.581
where you can enter an IP address,

00:37:00.161 --> 00:37:02.041
and they'll show you everything that's

00:37:02.061 --> 00:37:03.643
been downloaded on that IP address.

00:37:04.202 --> 00:37:07.164
And so that's certainly a privacy concern.

00:37:07.204 --> 00:37:12.148
And I think that port forwarding has a

00:37:12.208 --> 00:37:12.547
use case.

00:37:14.900 --> 00:37:18.963
So just to go ahead and put it

00:37:19.023 --> 00:37:19.422
out there,

00:37:20.543 --> 00:37:22.505
the four two two four said VPNs on

00:37:22.644 --> 00:37:24.385
iOS also have a big problem with leaking

00:37:24.425 --> 00:37:25.385
traffic to this day.

00:37:25.786 --> 00:37:27.626
Apple has some big room for improvement on

00:37:27.788 --> 00:37:28.387
all platforms.

00:37:28.407 --> 00:37:30.168
That's why IVP and kill switches on iOS

00:37:30.188 --> 00:37:30.748
don't do anything.

00:37:30.789 --> 00:37:31.268
That is true.

00:37:31.349 --> 00:37:32.469
If you are an iOS user,

00:37:32.949 --> 00:37:33.751
you should know.

00:37:33.891 --> 00:37:35.371
And I think Proton has even reported this

00:37:35.391 --> 00:37:36.231
to Apple in the past.

00:37:36.791 --> 00:37:39.934
that kill switches on iOS are practically

00:37:40.034 --> 00:37:40.393
useless.

00:37:40.434 --> 00:37:42.474
And Apple, especially on iOS,

00:37:42.494 --> 00:37:43.835
has really hamstrung them.

00:37:44.335 --> 00:37:44.916
As far as I know,

00:37:45.177 --> 00:37:46.396
there's really no way around that,

00:37:46.516 --> 00:37:47.117
unfortunately.

00:37:47.197 --> 00:37:48.998
And the thing is with Proton,

00:37:50.059 --> 00:37:52.601
their iOS implementation and their macOS

00:37:52.621 --> 00:37:54.961
implementation is pretty much identical.

00:37:55.001 --> 00:37:57.483
These exist in the same source code

00:37:57.702 --> 00:37:59.083
repository on GitHub,

00:37:59.123 --> 00:38:01.364
where the app that they release on both

00:38:01.405 --> 00:38:02.505
platforms is the same.

00:38:03.126 --> 00:38:04.786
And that certainly makes development

00:38:04.827 --> 00:38:05.146
easier.

00:38:06.507 --> 00:38:08.148
It means that they're not taking advantage

00:38:08.168 --> 00:38:09.829
of all the tools that are available on

00:38:09.889 --> 00:38:11.971
macOS that aren't on iOS,

00:38:12.010 --> 00:38:13.871
which is a whole argument that's going on

00:38:13.952 --> 00:38:14.231
now.

00:38:15.331 --> 00:38:17.554
People are pretty split between whether

00:38:17.594 --> 00:38:19.134
they should be going above and beyond

00:38:19.173 --> 00:38:20.914
because they're on macOS or whether they

00:38:20.934 --> 00:38:22.936
should be doing it according to what Apple

00:38:23.777 --> 00:38:25.097
tells developers to do.

00:38:26.358 --> 00:38:27.679
There's certainly good arguments for both

00:38:27.739 --> 00:38:28.139
sides,

00:38:28.579 --> 00:38:31.721
but if you're only using Apple's

00:38:33.072 --> 00:38:35.313
Approved api's to like create network

00:38:35.353 --> 00:38:37.793
tunnels like this on mac os there are

00:38:37.914 --> 00:38:39.994
exactly the same problems as there are on

00:38:40.135 --> 00:38:43.775
ios and so like this point about ios

00:38:43.856 --> 00:38:45.976
vpn apps leaking traffic like that totally

00:38:45.996 --> 00:38:48.338
applies to mac os apps and it just

00:38:48.378 --> 00:38:51.539
happens that ivpn and mullved they um

00:38:52.717 --> 00:38:54.137
implement, I would say,

00:38:54.157 --> 00:38:55.539
a bit of a hackier solution to kind

00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:57.039
of plug all those gaps, basically.

00:38:57.420 --> 00:38:59.161
So their kill switch on macOS is certainly

00:38:59.202 --> 00:39:00.742
much better than Proton.

00:39:00.782 --> 00:39:03.485
And if you really need this kill switch

00:39:03.505 --> 00:39:04.065
functionality,

00:39:04.146 --> 00:39:05.527
especially if you switch servers a lot,

00:39:05.567 --> 00:39:07.547
it's probably worth switching to one of

00:39:07.568 --> 00:39:10.510
those providers if you're on macOS.

00:39:10.570 --> 00:39:10.811
But

00:39:12.155 --> 00:39:14.217
I would say that the biggest problem with

00:39:14.237 --> 00:39:16.396
the whole ProtonVPN thing wasn't whether

00:39:16.436 --> 00:39:19.097
their kill switch worked or not,

00:39:19.177 --> 00:39:20.759
because they are working within Apple's

00:39:20.798 --> 00:39:22.079
limitations in this case.

00:39:22.418 --> 00:39:23.800
I think the big problem was just that

00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:26.139
it was very not clear.

00:39:26.539 --> 00:39:28.260
In fact, they said the opposite.

00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:29.300
They said it would work when you're

00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:30.742
switching servers, and it...

00:39:31.561 --> 00:39:31.963
And it didn't.

00:39:32.163 --> 00:39:34.244
And I think that people definitely could

00:39:34.264 --> 00:39:35.846
have been affected by that.

00:39:36.027 --> 00:39:38.829
And so that was the main thing.

00:39:38.929 --> 00:39:40.650
It was more of a documentation issue for

00:39:40.670 --> 00:39:40.771
me.

00:39:40.791 --> 00:39:42.373
And I'm glad that they at least fixed

00:39:42.413 --> 00:39:42.652
that.

00:39:43.373 --> 00:39:45.016
And I'm also happy that they are exploring

00:39:45.056 --> 00:39:47.679
ways to improve the kill switch in

00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:48.059
general.

00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:49.960
That is a longer term fix,

00:39:50.061 --> 00:39:52.943
but it'll still be good to see.

00:39:53.143 --> 00:39:54.945
And I'm glad they did both.

00:39:56.840 --> 00:39:58.501
I got one more before we move on

00:39:58.541 --> 00:39:59.581
from Jordan here.

00:39:59.722 --> 00:40:01.603
And this might be kind of speculation,

00:40:01.744 --> 00:40:02.403
but it says,

00:40:02.605 --> 00:40:03.846
were there any changes that will be made

00:40:03.865 --> 00:40:05.547
to the website after the response?

00:40:05.967 --> 00:40:06.688
Where are we at with that?

00:40:07.762 --> 00:40:08.961
Yeah, so that's a good question.

00:40:09.041 --> 00:40:11.543
We made a few changes already.

00:40:13.023 --> 00:40:14.123
Basically, right now,

00:40:14.403 --> 00:40:16.105
and this is more of a temporary thing,

00:40:16.164 --> 00:40:17.945
but we are making it clear that this

00:40:17.985 --> 00:40:20.146
specific kill switch criteria is only

00:40:20.186 --> 00:40:20.945
going to...

00:40:20.965 --> 00:40:22.445
We're only going to really consider it on

00:40:22.485 --> 00:40:24.126
the operating systems that we recommend

00:40:24.146 --> 00:40:25.487
because, like we just said,

00:40:25.827 --> 00:40:30.268
it's very hard to do this properly on

00:40:30.469 --> 00:40:31.768
Apple platforms in the first place.

00:40:31.989 --> 00:40:35.309
And we would probably argue that if you

00:40:35.409 --> 00:40:37.070
are this concerned about privacy,

00:40:37.190 --> 00:40:37.291
it's

00:40:38.123 --> 00:40:41.003
It's usually good to explore alternatives

00:40:41.664 --> 00:40:43.405
to Apple and certainly Windows.

00:40:43.684 --> 00:40:46.505
And so we're really focused on making sure

00:40:46.525 --> 00:40:48.226
these kill switches work on recommended

00:40:48.746 --> 00:40:50.786
Android ROMs like Graphene OS and also all

00:40:50.847 --> 00:40:54.188
of the Linux distros we recommend versus

00:40:56.989 --> 00:40:58.750
every single platform under the sun.

00:41:01.077 --> 00:41:02.438
that is just kind of temporary for now

00:41:02.478 --> 00:41:05.081
because it is an open question as to

00:41:05.121 --> 00:41:06.541
what we should actually do about all of

00:41:06.561 --> 00:41:12.206
this we'll probably expand this um to go

00:41:12.226 --> 00:41:13.927
back to including all operating systems

00:41:13.967 --> 00:41:17.070
but we might uh say that using the

00:41:17.210 --> 00:41:20.552
os provided kill switch is acceptable um

00:41:20.992 --> 00:41:22.713
regardless of whether that kill switch is

00:41:22.753 --> 00:41:23.715
good like on apple's

00:41:24.434 --> 00:41:25.637
operating system, it's not good.

00:41:25.777 --> 00:41:27.760
But that's more of a platform issue with

00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:29.603
macOS that I think macOS users need to

00:41:29.623 --> 00:41:30.103
be aware of.

00:41:30.463 --> 00:41:33.309
But as long as you're not lying about

00:41:33.528 --> 00:41:34.871
how your kill switch works,

00:41:36.193 --> 00:41:38.115
we might find that acceptable.

00:41:40.184 --> 00:41:41.925
But there are certainly some arguments

00:41:42.786 --> 00:41:44.507
that they should be going above and beyond

00:41:44.847 --> 00:41:49.349
and using undocumented or unsupported

00:41:49.369 --> 00:41:51.331
features if they make the kill switch

00:41:51.371 --> 00:41:54.791
better, like Mulvet and IVPN currently do.

00:41:56.032 --> 00:41:56.813
And so if you want to chime in

00:41:56.833 --> 00:41:57.414
on that discussion,

00:41:57.434 --> 00:41:58.454
you can join in on the forum.

00:41:58.534 --> 00:41:58.934
I don't know.

00:42:00.088 --> 00:42:01.311
what direction we'll go in yet,

00:42:01.331 --> 00:42:03.434
but I think a lot of people right

00:42:03.474 --> 00:42:05.817
now are leaning towards the first approach

00:42:05.876 --> 00:42:08.742
where ProtonVPN stays on the site because,

00:42:09.101 --> 00:42:09.782
like I said earlier,

00:42:11.958 --> 00:42:13.760
It's not only a matter of evaluating these

00:42:13.780 --> 00:42:14.159
clients,

00:42:14.199 --> 00:42:16.440
but we're also looking at the server side

00:42:16.481 --> 00:42:16.800
of things.

00:42:16.820 --> 00:42:18.780
And I think that ProtonVPN does a lot

00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:19.360
of things well,

00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:22.782
even if we're not super happy with some

00:42:22.802 --> 00:42:24.342
of the stuff going on with their clients.

00:42:24.802 --> 00:42:27.583
And especially because it's a free

00:42:27.623 --> 00:42:29.143
alternative for a lot of people,

00:42:29.384 --> 00:42:30.463
or a budget alternative,

00:42:30.503 --> 00:42:31.844
especially if you already have Proton

00:42:32.344 --> 00:42:32.784
Unlimited.

00:42:34.661 --> 00:42:38.684
Expanding access to using a VPN at all

00:42:38.905 --> 00:42:40.286
is super important.

00:42:40.427 --> 00:42:43.168
And there aren't really any free VPN

00:42:43.208 --> 00:42:44.449
providers that come to mind that could

00:42:44.489 --> 00:42:46.251
really replace Proton in this space.

00:42:46.831 --> 00:42:51.036
So I think that's a really good reason

00:42:51.056 --> 00:42:51.976
to keep them on the site.

00:42:54.041 --> 00:42:55.063
Yeah, we'll see how that goes.

00:42:55.362 --> 00:42:55.862
Certainly,

00:42:56.744 --> 00:42:58.125
we'll add more warnings about this.

00:42:58.304 --> 00:42:59.826
Proton added those warnings to their

00:42:59.846 --> 00:43:00.445
documentation,

00:43:00.467 --> 00:43:02.867
but we added warnings in the latest site

00:43:02.927 --> 00:43:03.889
update as well.

00:43:04.048 --> 00:43:06.351
So that should be clear to people about

00:43:06.530 --> 00:43:07.731
what's going on on macOS.

00:43:08.811 --> 00:43:10.353
And we can make those warnings stronger,

00:43:10.492 --> 00:43:14.715
or we can change our criteria accordingly.

00:43:14.956 --> 00:43:16.036
But yeah, no subplans.

00:43:16.338 --> 00:43:18.498
But that's where we're at now.

00:43:18.559 --> 00:43:21.561
At the very least, for the time being,

00:43:21.581 --> 00:43:22.181
it should be clear.

00:43:23.702 --> 00:43:25.798
what's going on on macOS so that people

00:43:25.838 --> 00:43:26.181
are aware.

00:43:27.338 --> 00:43:28.599
Yeah, over on the new oil,

00:43:28.659 --> 00:43:31.960
I do recommend a handful of free VPNs

00:43:32.041 --> 00:43:33.322
like RiseUp and Calix.

00:43:33.362 --> 00:43:34.842
But I even mentioned in the notes that

00:43:34.882 --> 00:43:35.322
I'm like, yeah,

00:43:35.342 --> 00:43:37.643
they're severely limited in features

00:43:37.744 --> 00:43:38.744
compared to what you're going to get on

00:43:38.784 --> 00:43:40.545
something like even Proton's free plan.

00:43:41.045 --> 00:43:41.927
It's just so hard to beat.

00:43:42.067 --> 00:43:43.186
There's certainly a difference between

00:43:43.226 --> 00:43:45.748
like these nonprofit projects and like a

00:43:45.829 --> 00:43:47.610
commercial endeavor, right?

00:43:47.670 --> 00:43:48.329
And that's what I mentioned.

00:43:48.349 --> 00:43:48.530
I'm like,

00:43:48.550 --> 00:43:50.231
these are great if you absolutely need a

00:43:50.251 --> 00:43:51.952
VPN for something and you absolutely can't

00:43:51.972 --> 00:43:52.393
afford it,

00:43:52.452 --> 00:43:54.054
but you're going to take a real feature

00:43:54.074 --> 00:43:54.253
hit.

00:43:54.514 --> 00:43:55.956
as a result.

00:43:56.135 --> 00:43:58.177
In terms of even the number of servers

00:43:58.197 --> 00:43:58.639
available.

00:43:58.759 --> 00:44:00.641
You can't even pick the servers.

00:44:00.681 --> 00:44:01.742
It just connects you to the fastest,

00:44:01.782 --> 00:44:03.224
closest one.

00:44:03.304 --> 00:44:05.846
Those tools to me are more anti-censorship

00:44:05.925 --> 00:44:06.306
tools.

00:44:06.327 --> 00:44:08.509
They're super useful for people who can't

00:44:08.668 --> 00:44:10.130
access the internet normally or need...

00:44:11.653 --> 00:44:13.855
one of these less popular VPNs that aren't

00:44:13.954 --> 00:44:15.735
like probably blocked by less services,

00:44:15.755 --> 00:44:17.456
honestly, but might be slower,

00:44:17.757 --> 00:44:19.117
definitely don't have all the features.

00:44:19.217 --> 00:44:22.797
Whereas there's a lot of VPN use cases

00:44:22.838 --> 00:44:25.278
that don't require or like that aren't

00:44:25.318 --> 00:44:26.880
censorship circumvention.

00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:29.380
And so for all of that stuff,

00:44:29.420 --> 00:44:31.862
ProtonVPN usually makes more sense.

00:44:33.173 --> 00:44:34.235
And not to like beat a dead horse,

00:44:34.275 --> 00:44:35.217
but what you were saying about like,

00:44:35.257 --> 00:44:37.739
you know, they're, they're not perfect,

00:44:37.780 --> 00:44:39.181
but they still provide a valuable service.

00:44:39.282 --> 00:44:39.702
I mean, that's,

00:44:39.902 --> 00:44:41.945
I think that's true of anything on,

00:44:42.025 --> 00:44:42.827
in the privacy space.

00:44:42.847 --> 00:44:45.090
Like there is no perfect service and you

00:44:45.110 --> 00:44:46.632
know, everything has pros and cons.

00:44:46.652 --> 00:44:47.672
And so, yeah.

00:44:48.523 --> 00:44:50.365
It's tough.

00:44:50.385 --> 00:44:54.851
But I think that will take us into

00:44:54.971 --> 00:44:57.614
our Q&A, if I understand correctly.

00:44:57.673 --> 00:44:59.215
Yes, it is time.

00:44:59.717 --> 00:45:00.117
All right,

00:45:00.137 --> 00:45:01.057
so now we're going to take some viewer

00:45:01.097 --> 00:45:01.498
questions.

00:45:01.539 --> 00:45:02.358
This chair moves,

00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:03.740
and it throws me off every time I

00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:05.222
scoot forward.

00:45:05.983 --> 00:45:07.164
Yeah, these are cool chairs.

00:45:07.264 --> 00:45:07.644
I like them.

00:45:08.766 --> 00:45:08.945
Okay,

00:45:08.965 --> 00:45:10.927
so we'll start with questions on our forum

00:45:11.067 --> 00:45:12.427
from our paying members,

00:45:12.646 --> 00:45:14.188
and you can become a member again by

00:45:14.228 --> 00:45:16.068
going to privacyguides.org and clicking

00:45:16.088 --> 00:45:17.688
the red heart icon in the top right

00:45:17.708 --> 00:45:18.509
corner of the page.

00:45:19.210 --> 00:45:21.630
So I don't know if we had any

00:45:21.929 --> 00:45:22.931
member questions.

00:45:22.971 --> 00:45:24.070
No, we didn't have any member questions,

00:45:24.110 --> 00:45:25.251
but we did have some questions on the

00:45:25.291 --> 00:45:25.972
forum this week.

00:45:27.911 --> 00:45:29.273
So let's see here.

00:45:30.954 --> 00:45:34.338
We had a note about chat control.

00:45:34.858 --> 00:45:36.880
I think there was a question here.

00:45:36.940 --> 00:45:37.161
No.

00:45:37.882 --> 00:45:39.623
Okay, but we did have this question here.

00:45:39.965 --> 00:45:41.547
What are your thoughts on piracy when it

00:45:41.567 --> 00:45:43.409
comes to trying to stay private whilst

00:45:43.548 --> 00:45:43.969
gaming?

00:45:44.329 --> 00:45:45.210
I think I mean privacy.

00:45:45.471 --> 00:45:46.693
What are your thoughts on privacy when it

00:45:46.733 --> 00:45:48.135
comes to trying to stay private while

00:45:48.275 --> 00:45:48.675
gaming?

00:45:50.989 --> 00:45:53.152
Yeah, I'll read this before I answer that.

00:45:53.172 --> 00:45:53.371
No, no.

00:45:53.532 --> 00:45:56.215
I think they're asking if piracy is

00:45:56.295 --> 00:45:58.577
acceptable to avoid these.

00:45:59.657 --> 00:46:00.079
Got you.

00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:00.559
Yeah, okay.

00:46:00.579 --> 00:46:01.599
Because they mentioned that most

00:46:01.739 --> 00:46:03.461
storefronts download your data in the same

00:46:03.481 --> 00:46:05.684
way as other sites, or collect your data,

00:46:05.704 --> 00:46:06.125
excuse me.

00:46:06.764 --> 00:46:08.085
specifically your interest while browsing

00:46:08.105 --> 00:46:09.465
the store and your play time of owned

00:46:09.485 --> 00:46:09.905
games.

00:46:10.326 --> 00:46:10.565
You say,

00:46:10.646 --> 00:46:11.885
I haven't found a store that allows you

00:46:11.905 --> 00:46:13.367
to make accounts relatively anonymously

00:46:13.387 --> 00:46:14.547
and pay with something like Monero.

00:46:14.947 --> 00:46:16.567
GOG seems to be the best option when

00:46:16.586 --> 00:46:17.827
it comes to not having your gameplay

00:46:17.887 --> 00:46:20.027
tracked because they do sell DRM-free

00:46:20.188 --> 00:46:20.588
games,

00:46:21.108 --> 00:46:22.228
but you still need to use their

00:46:22.288 --> 00:46:22.949
storefront.

00:46:23.708 --> 00:46:25.449
And then their library is a lot smaller

00:46:25.489 --> 00:46:27.009
compared to like Steam, for example.

00:46:28.090 --> 00:46:29.369
A lot of publishers don't want to release

00:46:29.409 --> 00:46:32.590
DRM-free files or they have exclusivity

00:46:32.630 --> 00:46:33.070
deals.

00:46:34.331 --> 00:46:36.014
So it seems the only way to play

00:46:36.074 --> 00:46:36.875
games privately,

00:46:36.954 --> 00:46:38.077
similar to other media shows,

00:46:38.137 --> 00:46:41.922
is to get them illegitimately.

00:46:41.961 --> 00:46:44.266
Well, I will say that...

00:46:46.023 --> 00:46:48.385
Yeah, first off, Jordan reminded me,

00:46:48.425 --> 00:46:50.186
thank you here, that Fria did,

00:46:50.327 --> 00:46:51.668
I think last week or the week before,

00:46:51.788 --> 00:46:53.289
write an article about how to game

00:46:53.509 --> 00:46:54.009
privately.

00:46:54.289 --> 00:46:54.989
Not piracy.

00:46:55.250 --> 00:46:55.409
Yeah.

00:46:55.429 --> 00:46:56.369
That's a separate topic,

00:46:56.409 --> 00:46:57.670
but if you are a gamer and you

00:46:57.690 --> 00:46:59.271
want to learn about private gaming,

00:46:59.452 --> 00:47:00.893
there is a good article about that, yeah.

00:47:00.932 --> 00:47:01.092
Yeah,

00:47:01.112 --> 00:47:02.253
so I would check that out for sure.

00:47:03.795 --> 00:47:05.536
I will say that me personally,

00:47:06.297 --> 00:47:07.556
this is my personal view,

00:47:07.577 --> 00:47:10.059
and I'm going to end up defending this

00:47:10.139 --> 00:47:11.519
one for weeks like last time I said

00:47:11.539 --> 00:47:11.760
this.

00:47:14.702 --> 00:47:14.722
I...

00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:19.902
I gotta be honest.

00:47:20.041 --> 00:47:21.463
I think piracy is theft.

00:47:21.963 --> 00:47:25.045
And I think all the arguments I hear...

00:47:25.146 --> 00:47:26.126
Like, I hear you.

00:47:26.226 --> 00:47:27.788
It is messed up that you don't actually

00:47:27.907 --> 00:47:28.409
own it, right?

00:47:28.429 --> 00:47:28.568
Like,

00:47:28.588 --> 00:47:29.789
you buy a thing and you get a

00:47:29.849 --> 00:47:30.349
license.

00:47:30.831 --> 00:47:32.552
And there's been so many stories about,

00:47:32.592 --> 00:47:34.132
like, Amazon pulled, ironically,

00:47:34.173 --> 00:47:35.494
NineteenEightyFour out of people's

00:47:35.514 --> 00:47:37.235
libraries because of a licensing dispute.

00:47:37.615 --> 00:47:38.436
But at the end of the day,

00:47:38.657 --> 00:47:39.657
when we're talking about games,

00:47:39.737 --> 00:47:40.619
games are a luxury.

00:47:41.179 --> 00:47:41.420
And...

00:47:42.019 --> 00:47:42.681
At the end of the day,

00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:44.501
and this is another argument people make,

00:47:44.541 --> 00:47:45.222
that they're like, oh,

00:47:45.242 --> 00:47:46.664
but the studio gets most of the money,

00:47:47.204 --> 00:47:48.686
but you're still not paying for it.

00:47:48.766 --> 00:47:50.487
So my thing is, and here's my thing,

00:47:51.027 --> 00:47:53.028
find a way to support the maker.

00:47:53.309 --> 00:47:55.510
If it's an indie game,

00:47:55.550 --> 00:47:57.552
find some way to pay them and support

00:47:57.592 --> 00:47:58.934
them and let them know that you want

00:47:58.954 --> 00:47:59.675
more of these games.

00:47:59.974 --> 00:48:00.815
You just want them on a more

00:48:00.856 --> 00:48:02.697
privacy-respecting platform or something

00:48:02.737 --> 00:48:03.137
like that.

00:48:03.637 --> 00:48:03.938
Yeah.

00:48:04.998 --> 00:48:06.139
The best example I can come up with

00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:07.081
is music, personally.

00:48:07.882 --> 00:48:09.003
And I say this as a musician.

00:48:09.302 --> 00:48:10.284
If you're going to pirate my music,

00:48:10.324 --> 00:48:12.465
the least you can do is go to

00:48:12.644 --> 00:48:14.666
a show, go to the merch store.

00:48:14.746 --> 00:48:16.969
Do something to still show that you

00:48:16.989 --> 00:48:18.829
appreciate it and you are trying to

00:48:18.849 --> 00:48:19.331
support them.

00:48:19.411 --> 00:48:21.271
So that is my personal opinion.

00:48:23.583 --> 00:48:25.164
I'm also not going to endorse crimes on

00:48:25.184 --> 00:48:25.646
a recording.

00:48:26.585 --> 00:48:27.427
I'm just going to say that.

00:48:27.927 --> 00:48:30.409
So I don't think piracy is the way

00:48:30.429 --> 00:48:30.829
to go.

00:48:32.030 --> 00:48:33.210
I think you make really valid points.

00:48:33.231 --> 00:48:34.532
It would be really cool to see a

00:48:35.112 --> 00:48:36.974
game store that allows you to pay with

00:48:36.994 --> 00:48:38.594
crypto, especially something like Monero,

00:48:39.215 --> 00:48:41.876
or doesn't track everything you do.

00:48:42.358 --> 00:48:43.237
I don't know of any.

00:48:43.739 --> 00:48:44.699
I don't know how hard it would be

00:48:44.739 --> 00:48:46.420
to make some kind of a storefront like

00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:46.681
that.

00:48:46.780 --> 00:48:46.960
But...

00:48:48.501 --> 00:48:50.264
I will say in my personal opinion,

00:48:50.304 --> 00:48:51.626
I think the only exception is probably

00:48:51.666 --> 00:48:53.608
like games that are no longer in print.

00:48:53.728 --> 00:48:56.670
Like there's an old Jurassic Park game

00:48:56.690 --> 00:48:57.793
that I love playing where it's like you

00:48:57.813 --> 00:48:59.193
basically build your own Jurassic Park.

00:48:59.534 --> 00:49:01.416
That thing has been gone for years.

00:49:01.577 --> 00:49:01.896
So like,

00:49:01.976 --> 00:49:03.498
I don't think anyone's going to sell it

00:49:03.518 --> 00:49:03.798
to you.

00:49:03.898 --> 00:49:04.559
Yeah, exactly.

00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:06.202
And like you can find them used on

00:49:06.262 --> 00:49:06.461
eBay,

00:49:06.481 --> 00:49:07.784
but they're like a hundred bucks a copy.

00:49:07.844 --> 00:49:08.565
And I'm like, okay,

00:49:09.047 --> 00:49:11.210
I think maybe we'll visit the high fees

00:49:11.230 --> 00:49:12.449
for this one.

00:49:12.590 --> 00:49:14.311
That's definitely not going to the

00:49:14.331 --> 00:49:14.831
developer.

00:49:14.911 --> 00:49:15.351
For sure.

00:49:16.632 --> 00:49:19.135
So that's personally my opinion is the

00:49:19.155 --> 00:49:20.835
main issue I take with piracy is that

00:49:21.297 --> 00:49:21.936
one way or another,

00:49:21.976 --> 00:49:24.057
you're still not showing support for the

00:49:24.097 --> 00:49:24.798
product itself.

00:49:24.818 --> 00:49:26.219
And I think as long as you can

00:49:26.239 --> 00:49:27.920
find a way to do that, you know,

00:49:29.001 --> 00:49:30.382
yeah, that's my two cents.

00:49:31.217 --> 00:49:31.478
Yeah.

00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:34.239
Yeah, retro games is definitely different,

00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:35.800
because that's more of an archival thing.

00:49:35.820 --> 00:49:36.101
To me,

00:49:36.141 --> 00:49:39.202
I think that it's morally correct to

00:49:39.222 --> 00:49:40.322
preserve art, actually.

00:49:40.643 --> 00:49:42.545
But all of this other like piracy of

00:49:42.684 --> 00:49:44.465
modern games, it's like cyberpunk,

00:49:44.646 --> 00:49:46.967
certainly an ethical question.

00:49:49.369 --> 00:49:50.989
And yeah, I totally agree.

00:49:51.130 --> 00:49:51.429
I think

00:49:53.630 --> 00:49:56.331
mean ironically like gabe newell had that

00:49:56.431 --> 00:49:58.373
quote about how piracy is a service

00:49:58.413 --> 00:50:00.534
problem um because people wouldn't pirate

00:50:00.554 --> 00:50:02.795
games if like it was super convenient to

00:50:02.815 --> 00:50:04.155
just buy them because i think people

00:50:04.195 --> 00:50:05.597
really like that convenience we saw that

00:50:06.056 --> 00:50:07.777
you know when steam and netflix were first

00:50:07.797 --> 00:50:09.458
coming out and they were competitors to

00:50:09.818 --> 00:50:11.199
like the mainstream platforms it was like

00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:13.501
oh yeah it's super easy to on netflix

00:50:13.541 --> 00:50:15.001
subscribe and see all the movies they're

00:50:15.021 --> 00:50:16.123
on steam you can just quickly buy a

00:50:16.143 --> 00:50:17.664
game i was gonna say honestly like music

00:50:17.923 --> 00:50:18.304
streaming

00:50:18.784 --> 00:50:20.664
Made me stop pirating music.

00:50:20.724 --> 00:50:22.465
Music is definitely the best example.

00:50:22.625 --> 00:50:23.965
I think a lot of people could learn

00:50:24.344 --> 00:50:25.646
at least this lesson from the music

00:50:25.686 --> 00:50:27.706
industry because almost nobody really

00:50:27.766 --> 00:50:31.467
pirates music these days because it's so

00:50:31.586 --> 00:50:33.367
affordable and easy to stream on pretty

00:50:33.387 --> 00:50:34.108
much any platform.

00:50:34.148 --> 00:50:36.228
It's nice that there aren't really a lot

00:50:36.248 --> 00:50:38.688
of exclusive songs that are stuck on

00:50:38.789 --> 00:50:40.048
certain platforms that you have to switch

00:50:40.068 --> 00:50:40.469
between.

00:50:40.809 --> 00:50:43.130
It's all just kind of a universal system.

00:50:44.789 --> 00:50:46.010
I haven't seen that a lot lately.

00:50:46.630 --> 00:50:47.411
I remember some big...

00:50:48.342 --> 00:50:49.563
headline ones years ago,

00:50:49.623 --> 00:50:51.563
but I don't know what the current status

00:50:51.643 --> 00:50:51.824
is.

00:50:52.324 --> 00:50:55.407
But it's certainly not like a Netflix

00:50:55.447 --> 00:50:57.188
versus Hulu situation where they're

00:50:57.228 --> 00:50:58.690
completely different now and you have to

00:50:58.710 --> 00:51:00.431
buy a million streaming services.

00:51:00.471 --> 00:51:01.652
I think that's why people are going back

00:51:01.692 --> 00:51:02.231
to piracy.

00:51:04.253 --> 00:51:04.773
In this case,

00:51:04.813 --> 00:51:06.815
it's not really a pricing concern because

00:51:06.996 --> 00:51:09.757
obviously it's still very convenient and

00:51:09.818 --> 00:51:12.039
cheap to just buy games on Steam,

00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:12.619
for example,

00:51:12.699 --> 00:51:15.501
but the privacy concern is real and

00:51:16.820 --> 00:51:18.740
Kind of similarly to all those pricing

00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:19.280
concerns,

00:51:19.340 --> 00:51:23.222
I think that a big way to avoid

00:51:23.262 --> 00:51:25.262
piracy would be to encourage more

00:51:25.302 --> 00:51:26.563
developers to, like you said,

00:51:27.382 --> 00:51:29.664
adopt other platforms like GOG,

00:51:29.684 --> 00:51:31.844
for example, is a better one,

00:51:32.025 --> 00:51:32.864
even though it's not perfect,

00:51:32.885 --> 00:51:34.306
but it's not like tracking your gameplay

00:51:34.346 --> 00:51:34.666
and you can...

00:51:36.025 --> 00:51:38.268
use it DRM-free, so you can use it,

00:51:38.608 --> 00:51:40.369
play games offline, all that stuff.

00:51:40.730 --> 00:51:41.751
Ideally, yeah,

00:51:41.791 --> 00:51:43.652
you would purchase from a platform like

00:51:43.693 --> 00:51:45.914
that versus something like Steam if you're

00:51:45.934 --> 00:51:48.356
concerned about privacy.

00:51:49.097 --> 00:51:52.380
But yeah, getting adoption is tough.

00:51:53.300 --> 00:51:54.541
I do kind of have to agree with

00:51:54.581 --> 00:51:56.182
you that it is a bit of a

00:51:56.784 --> 00:51:57.284
luxury.

00:51:58.804 --> 00:51:59.125
Personally,

00:51:59.166 --> 00:52:00.246
I wouldn't think it's right to

00:52:01.726 --> 00:52:03.088
not support game developers,

00:52:03.148 --> 00:52:04.469
especially in these trying times.

00:52:05.851 --> 00:52:07.614
If it's someone like EA,

00:52:07.634 --> 00:52:11.177
make up your own mind about that.

00:52:11.217 --> 00:52:13.159
But if it's an EA,

00:52:13.179 --> 00:52:14.141
I wouldn't really encourage that.

00:52:14.161 --> 00:52:14.822
I don't think it's right.

00:52:15.342 --> 00:52:15.902
That's just me, though.

00:52:16.824 --> 00:52:17.264
I will say,

00:52:18.485 --> 00:52:20.027
I definitely know it only goes so far,

00:52:20.068 --> 00:52:20.789
but I really think...

00:52:22.690 --> 00:52:24.833
think um what's the word i'm looking for

00:52:24.913 --> 00:52:27.675
like respectful feedback i think will

00:52:27.715 --> 00:52:28.956
really go a long way and i mean

00:52:28.996 --> 00:52:30.617
obviously like yeah with somebody like ea

00:52:30.876 --> 00:52:31.878
it's going to take a lot of emails

00:52:31.898 --> 00:52:33.398
to get there but especially with some of

00:52:33.418 --> 00:52:35.240
the smaller developers and studios if you

00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:37.021
send them an email and it's all about

00:52:37.101 --> 00:52:38.103
how you say it you know if you're

00:52:38.123 --> 00:52:39.923
just like you guys suck like okay they're

00:52:39.943 --> 00:52:41.284
not gonna listen to you but if you

00:52:41.405 --> 00:52:42.706
email them and you're like hey i want

00:52:42.726 --> 00:52:43.907
you to know i really want to buy

00:52:43.947 --> 00:52:46.329
your game but like i am morally opposed

00:52:46.349 --> 00:52:47.949
to steam and i will never buy a

00:52:47.989 --> 00:52:48.530
game from them

00:52:49.030 --> 00:52:50.092
And it would be really cool if you

00:52:50.112 --> 00:52:51.932
guys were on like GOG or like sold

00:52:51.952 --> 00:52:53.273
the game directly or something.

00:52:53.614 --> 00:52:55.054
If they get enough of those emails,

00:52:55.175 --> 00:52:55.914
they're going to listen.

00:52:56.675 --> 00:52:57.695
And again, you know, yeah,

00:52:57.715 --> 00:53:00.617
with somebody like a big AAA studio,

00:53:00.637 --> 00:53:01.737
it's going to take a lot of emails.

00:53:01.998 --> 00:53:02.938
But with the smaller studios,

00:53:02.958 --> 00:53:03.838
it may not take much.

00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:05.900
And it may not be that hard for

00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:06.780
them to like, oh,

00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:09.262
let me try selling this on GOG and

00:53:09.282 --> 00:53:10.382
see if it gets a good response.

00:53:10.422 --> 00:53:10.943
And if it does,

00:53:10.983 --> 00:53:12.224
then maybe they'll keep doing it.

00:53:12.284 --> 00:53:13.505
So I don't know,

00:53:13.525 --> 00:53:15.666
because I guess I'm thinking in the

00:53:15.706 --> 00:53:16.447
process that like...

00:53:17.641 --> 00:53:17.762
Like,

00:53:17.782 --> 00:53:18.702
they don't know what they don't know,

00:53:18.782 --> 00:53:19.643
so if they just see, like,

00:53:19.684 --> 00:53:20.625
this game isn't selling,

00:53:20.885 --> 00:53:22.266
they don't know how many sales they're

00:53:22.286 --> 00:53:23.347
missing out on and why,

00:53:23.507 --> 00:53:24.909
unless somebody messages them and say,

00:53:25.009 --> 00:53:25.188
hey,

00:53:26.030 --> 00:53:27.492
I'm not buying your game for this reason.

00:53:27.652 --> 00:53:29.492
So, yeah, just a thought.

00:53:29.552 --> 00:53:30.474
I don't know how well that would work,

00:53:30.554 --> 00:53:30.715
but...

00:53:31.943 --> 00:53:34.284
I saw this comment from Anbi Damara in

00:53:34.324 --> 00:53:37.103
our chat talking about how Steam,

00:53:37.123 --> 00:53:38.224
when you buy a digital license,

00:53:38.244 --> 00:53:39.005
they never revoke it.

00:53:39.164 --> 00:53:40.385
If you buy a game that's no longer

00:53:40.425 --> 00:53:41.304
sold or taken away,

00:53:41.726 --> 00:53:43.385
you still have a copy on Steam.

00:53:44.246 --> 00:53:45.146
And that is true.

00:53:46.467 --> 00:53:49.128
I wonder how that works for most games

00:53:49.208 --> 00:53:50.568
if Steam went away, though.

00:53:50.668 --> 00:53:52.268
That'd be my concern with the whole DRM

00:53:52.307 --> 00:53:55.329
thing because Steam is still licensing it.

00:53:56.208 --> 00:53:58.449
It's a similar case with old games.

00:53:58.769 --> 00:53:59.471
iOS games,

00:53:59.490 --> 00:54:01.994
because the Apple App Store works the same

00:54:02.034 --> 00:54:04.396
way, which is nice,

00:54:04.657 --> 00:54:08.001
but it's still reliant on downloading and

00:54:08.041 --> 00:54:09.483
validating these purchases from a

00:54:09.664 --> 00:54:10.485
centralized app store.

00:54:10.505 --> 00:54:12.126
So there's privacy concerns with that,

00:54:12.146 --> 00:54:14.070
and there's also longevity concerns.

00:54:14.110 --> 00:54:16.411
Who knows if Steam will be around in

00:54:16.431 --> 00:54:16.972
fifteen years?

00:54:17.773 --> 00:54:18.853
Can't imagine they're going anywhere,

00:54:18.873 --> 00:54:19.715
but you never know.

00:54:19.974 --> 00:54:20.175
I mean,

00:54:20.215 --> 00:54:21.556
people say that about a lot of companies,

00:54:21.615 --> 00:54:23.356
and then they disappear.

00:54:24.436 --> 00:54:24.677
Well,

00:54:24.856 --> 00:54:26.478
and another unfortunate thing that I can

00:54:26.518 --> 00:54:29.059
attest to is just because you buy the

00:54:29.079 --> 00:54:29.798
game from Steam,

00:54:29.958 --> 00:54:32.019
the developer is under no obligation to

00:54:32.039 --> 00:54:33.559
make sure it works on future operating

00:54:33.579 --> 00:54:33.960
systems.

00:54:34.221 --> 00:54:34.420
Yeah.

00:54:34.740 --> 00:54:36.902
So Knights of the Old Republic won.

00:54:37.911 --> 00:54:38.532
Thankfully,

00:54:39.092 --> 00:54:40.173
and probably two for all I know.

00:54:40.514 --> 00:54:40.873
Thankfully,

00:54:40.934 --> 00:54:42.175
I can still play that one on Switch

00:54:42.195 --> 00:54:43.396
because one and two were on sale for

00:54:43.416 --> 00:54:44.336
like ten bucks one time.

00:54:44.356 --> 00:54:44.996
And I was like, sweet.

00:54:45.478 --> 00:54:46.938
But yeah,

00:54:46.978 --> 00:54:48.320
they're not available on Windows Eleven

00:54:49.260 --> 00:54:50.661
because they just they never updated it.

00:54:50.681 --> 00:54:52.242
They never ported it to newer Windows.

00:54:52.282 --> 00:54:54.264
And there's like hacks on YouTube.

00:54:54.284 --> 00:54:55.505
They're like, download this file.

00:54:55.525 --> 00:54:55.804
And I'm like,

00:54:55.844 --> 00:54:57.626
I'm not downloading a random file from a

00:54:57.686 --> 00:54:58.266
YouTuber.

00:54:58.347 --> 00:55:00.628
But yeah, that's something to think about,

00:55:00.688 --> 00:55:00.909
too.

00:55:00.969 --> 00:55:01.909
But you're not wrong.

00:55:01.969 --> 00:55:04.692
Like KOTOR is still in my Steam library.

00:55:04.811 --> 00:55:05.893
I just can't play it.

00:55:06.032 --> 00:55:07.054
Can't play it.

00:55:07.074 --> 00:55:07.253
So.

00:55:09.628 --> 00:55:11.853
going back to the beginning here I will

00:55:11.893 --> 00:55:16.365
say not that I want to encourage piracy

00:55:16.405 --> 00:55:17.369
either but also like

00:55:18.809 --> 00:55:21.630
some an approach that i think that i

00:55:21.690 --> 00:55:23.751
felt like morally right about even if it's

00:55:23.771 --> 00:55:26.333
not legally right uh and i'm not saying

00:55:26.393 --> 00:55:29.175
i do this but i feel like it's

00:55:29.235 --> 00:55:31.996
morally right like if you buy uh something

00:55:32.036 --> 00:55:33.237
like if you buy a game or like

00:55:33.737 --> 00:55:35.617
um the case i'm thinking of was like

00:55:35.637 --> 00:55:37.099
if you buy a dvd or a blu-ray

00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:39.539
from a store and then you also pirate

00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:41.701
it just as yeah for convenience purposes

00:55:41.981 --> 00:55:43.422
like yeah like that's different and i

00:55:43.461 --> 00:55:44.563
think if you could like i agree

00:55:45.733 --> 00:55:46.876
if you're really going to go down this

00:55:46.916 --> 00:55:49.318
piracy path, which is your decision,

00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:53.684
if you can also buy the game and

00:55:53.704 --> 00:55:57.228
just don't use that platform that might be

00:55:57.268 --> 00:55:58.951
privacy invasive for playing games or

00:55:58.971 --> 00:56:02.255
anything else, something to think about.

00:56:02.916 --> 00:56:04.418
Yeah, personally, I'm not opposed to that,

00:56:04.557 --> 00:56:04.657
but

00:56:06.394 --> 00:56:07.596
So going back to some of our earlier

00:56:07.635 --> 00:56:10.336
questions we got, Dr. Warface says,

00:56:10.396 --> 00:56:12.358
do you suggest email alias services for

00:56:12.398 --> 00:56:13.458
things like utilities,

00:56:13.498 --> 00:56:14.798
like Waterphone and Electric?

00:56:15.420 --> 00:56:15.940
And also,

00:56:15.980 --> 00:56:17.460
do you guys suggest an app for investing

00:56:17.501 --> 00:56:19.021
like Schwab or Fidelity?

00:56:20.282 --> 00:56:22.663
I guess in regards to the first one,

00:56:22.742 --> 00:56:23.262
yeah.

00:56:23.884 --> 00:56:25.985
I do use aliasing services for pretty much

00:56:26.005 --> 00:56:26.344
everything.

00:56:26.885 --> 00:56:28.005
But what I've started doing a lot more

00:56:28.025 --> 00:56:30.086
lately is switching to custom domains.

00:56:31.367 --> 00:56:32.427
Just because that way if...

00:56:33.507 --> 00:56:34.728
It's kind of as portable as you can

00:56:34.768 --> 00:56:35.130
get, right?

00:56:35.210 --> 00:56:36.190
I use SimpleLogin,

00:56:36.690 --> 00:56:38.592
but if SimpleLogin goes away or I want

00:56:38.612 --> 00:56:39.713
to switch to another service,

00:56:41.034 --> 00:56:42.976
almost all email providers have the whole

00:56:42.996 --> 00:56:43.817
wildcard domain,

00:56:44.077 --> 00:56:45.538
so I don't even need to really import

00:56:45.677 --> 00:56:46.898
my aliases.

00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:48.820
I move the domain to the new provider,

00:56:49.240 --> 00:56:50.402
and I just turn on wildcard,

00:56:50.461 --> 00:56:51.663
and as I start getting emails,

00:56:51.702 --> 00:56:52.463
they'll start coming in.

00:56:52.724 --> 00:56:54.284
So that's kind of my logic.

00:56:54.304 --> 00:56:54.445
Yeah,

00:56:54.465 --> 00:56:56.286
there's always a backup if you're using a

00:56:56.347 --> 00:56:56.967
custom domain.

00:56:57.027 --> 00:56:57.148
Mm-hmm.

00:56:58.135 --> 00:56:59.456
I do the exact same approach, I think,

00:56:59.496 --> 00:57:01.878
for especially the stuff mentioned in this

00:57:02.059 --> 00:57:02.639
comment here.

00:57:02.739 --> 00:57:04.000
I would do the same thing where I

00:57:04.519 --> 00:57:06.161
use simple login aliases as well,

00:57:06.181 --> 00:57:07.762
but I use a custom domain for any

00:57:07.782 --> 00:57:09.922
of that in-person stuff, basically,

00:57:09.963 --> 00:57:11.804
where the privacy concern about...

00:57:13.222 --> 00:57:15.003
people tying those email addresses

00:57:15.043 --> 00:57:16.244
together is not a huge concern,

00:57:16.264 --> 00:57:17.266
because they already have this other

00:57:17.646 --> 00:57:18.226
information.

00:57:20.288 --> 00:57:22.909
And so there is some safety in using

00:57:22.949 --> 00:57:23.990
a custom domain, like you said.

00:57:24.010 --> 00:57:25.331
But there's also a privacy risk,

00:57:25.371 --> 00:57:27.012
because if you're the only person using

00:57:27.052 --> 00:57:27.554
this domain,

00:57:28.054 --> 00:57:30.235
then it's very easy to see if these

00:57:30.275 --> 00:57:31.916
accounts are connected just based on the

00:57:31.956 --> 00:57:32.317
domain.

00:57:32.336 --> 00:57:36.199
So you lose that advantage of using a

00:57:36.260 --> 00:57:37.860
simple login.com alias,

00:57:38.521 --> 00:57:39.362
which is unfortunate.

00:57:39.782 --> 00:57:42.005
But that's kind of the trade-off you make.

00:57:42.947 --> 00:57:43.827
I definitely,

00:57:44.907 --> 00:57:48.030
especially if you can get a custom domain,

00:57:48.931 --> 00:57:51.132
I definitely recommend using email aliases

00:57:51.192 --> 00:57:52.753
for every single service you use.

00:57:53.132 --> 00:57:54.134
That's definitely what I do,

00:57:54.813 --> 00:57:58.117
and that's mainly to serve as a quick

00:57:58.157 --> 00:57:59.536
way to prevent people from

00:58:00.458 --> 00:58:01.599
correlating your accounts,

00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:03.320
but also just I mean,

00:58:03.340 --> 00:58:05.382
services get data breaches all the time.

00:58:05.442 --> 00:58:07.063
And you don't want like your email address

00:58:07.083 --> 00:58:09.585
to match between those data breaches.

00:58:09.746 --> 00:58:10.186
Obviously,

00:58:10.206 --> 00:58:11.588
if you're interested in finding out

00:58:11.628 --> 00:58:13.268
exactly how often that happens,

00:58:13.829 --> 00:58:15.711
Nate publishes the data breach.

00:58:17.213 --> 00:58:18.393
Roundup roundup everywhere.

00:58:18.414 --> 00:58:20.476
He's like starts in our losing my words

00:58:20.496 --> 00:58:21.476
today.

00:58:21.516 --> 00:58:22.597
It's been a long roundup.

00:58:23.197 --> 00:58:23.438
Yes.

00:58:24.119 --> 00:58:25.659
We still have a few hours to go

00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:27.222
because the party hasn't even started yet

00:58:27.262 --> 00:58:27.501
here.

00:58:27.702 --> 00:58:30.204
But yeah, Data Breach Roundup,

00:58:30.224 --> 00:58:32.385
you can get that emailed to you to

00:58:32.425 --> 00:58:33.666
keep up with all the data breaches.

00:58:33.706 --> 00:58:35.668
I think there are a lot more than

00:58:35.708 --> 00:58:37.190
people would expect.

00:58:37.250 --> 00:58:37.969
I think you'd agree.

00:58:38.331 --> 00:58:41.333
Oh, yeah.

00:58:41.373 --> 00:58:42.634
And then just real quick, Dr.

00:58:42.653 --> 00:58:43.574
Warface also asked,

00:58:43.755 --> 00:58:45.597
what's our opinions on Windscribe and do

00:58:45.617 --> 00:58:47.018
we want to add them down the line?

00:58:47.057 --> 00:58:47.237
I mean,

00:58:48.159 --> 00:58:49.460
that's exactly what the forum is for,

00:58:49.639 --> 00:58:49.860
you know.

00:58:51.217 --> 00:58:53.039
I think people have brought up Windscribe

00:58:53.059 --> 00:58:53.579
in the past.

00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:55.541
That discussion has been going on for a

00:58:55.581 --> 00:58:55.922
while.

00:58:56.081 --> 00:58:57.722
I don't know what the current status on

00:58:57.784 --> 00:58:58.043
it is.

00:58:58.083 --> 00:58:59.085
But last I heard,

00:59:00.505 --> 00:59:02.648
there were issues with them not having

00:59:02.688 --> 00:59:04.708
released the source code for their current

00:59:04.728 --> 00:59:05.250
clients yet.

00:59:05.269 --> 00:59:06.951
And there were also issues with them not

00:59:06.990 --> 00:59:09.632
having released the audits for their

00:59:09.672 --> 00:59:10.733
current clients yet.

00:59:10.813 --> 00:59:12.135
All of their audits are outdated,

00:59:13.175 --> 00:59:14.697
I believe.

00:59:14.838 --> 00:59:16.059
They're either outdated or they're

00:59:16.119 --> 00:59:16.719
inaccessible.

00:59:16.818 --> 00:59:17.519
I don't remember which.

00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:19.041
But either way, they don't...

00:59:20.472 --> 00:59:23.135
They didn't meet what we wanted to see

00:59:23.155 --> 00:59:23.554
at the time.

00:59:25.637 --> 00:59:27.298
So yeah.

00:59:30.019 --> 00:59:32.561
I think we'll continue to look at it.

00:59:32.621 --> 00:59:33.722
We should probably look at it again,

00:59:33.822 --> 00:59:35.342
but I haven't seen that thread brought up

00:59:35.422 --> 00:59:36.244
recently on the forum.

00:59:36.583 --> 00:59:38.925
If anyone has new information about

00:59:38.945 --> 00:59:39.364
Windscribe,

00:59:39.405 --> 00:59:40.746
if I said something that's wrong,

00:59:40.945 --> 00:59:42.186
I haven't looked into this for at least

00:59:42.206 --> 00:59:42.686
a few months,

00:59:42.726 --> 00:59:44.987
so you can leave a comment on the

00:59:45.007 --> 00:59:46.489
Windscribe thread and we can look into it.

00:59:47.230 --> 00:59:47.449
But yeah,

00:59:47.469 --> 00:59:48.650
I'll try to remember to look into that

00:59:48.670 --> 00:59:48.911
again.

00:59:49.130 --> 00:59:50.231
But as far as I know right now,

00:59:50.271 --> 00:59:53.052
nothing has really changed from what's

00:59:53.072 --> 00:59:54.393
been shared over there on the forum.

00:59:54.434 --> 00:59:55.414
So I would take a look at that

00:59:55.454 --> 00:59:57.775
if you're interested in Windscribe and you

00:59:57.815 --> 00:59:58.215
want to

00:59:59.965 --> 01:00:00.666
Learn more about it.

01:00:01.507 --> 01:00:05.708
Cool.

01:00:05.728 --> 01:00:07.809
I wanted to address one real quick from

01:00:08.789 --> 01:00:09.809
Leonardo Leo.

01:00:10.809 --> 01:00:11.070
You say,

01:00:11.110 --> 01:00:13.530
I see many privacy advocates using Mac OS.

01:00:13.550 --> 01:00:14.231
As a privacy advocate,

01:00:14.271 --> 01:00:15.172
I think you should use Linux.

01:00:16.112 --> 01:00:16.751
I want to point out,

01:00:16.831 --> 01:00:18.032
and this is a very privileged thing,

01:00:18.273 --> 01:00:19.753
but I know this applies to Jonah too,

01:00:20.052 --> 01:00:21.114
we have multiple devices.

01:00:22.114 --> 01:00:23.155
And so in my case,

01:00:23.795 --> 01:00:24.976
I primarily use cubes,

01:00:25.175 --> 01:00:26.878
which I'm very open about is like super

01:00:26.938 --> 01:00:27.938
overkill for most people.

01:00:28.579 --> 01:00:29.579
Multiple devices.

01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:31.221
Multiple devices.

01:00:32.402 --> 01:00:33.121
And so for me,

01:00:33.202 --> 01:00:35.264
like this here is a Windows device.

01:00:35.583 --> 01:00:38.525
And yes, I cry internally every day.

01:00:39.007 --> 01:00:40.827
But this is also my device because I

01:00:40.867 --> 01:00:41.509
mentioned a second ago,

01:00:41.949 --> 01:00:42.989
I primarily use cubes.

01:00:43.349 --> 01:00:45.050
Cubes cannot video edit, okay?

01:00:45.231 --> 01:00:46.211
Especially the one I've got.

01:00:46.271 --> 01:00:46.952
It's just not there.

01:00:47.012 --> 01:00:48.132
And it's great for like browsing the

01:00:48.172 --> 01:00:49.273
internet and communicating.

01:00:49.715 --> 01:00:50.976
But like this is for...

01:00:51.695 --> 01:00:52.076
production.

01:00:52.096 --> 01:00:53.077
This is for editing videos,

01:00:53.097 --> 01:00:54.297
which are all going to be public anyways,

01:00:54.356 --> 01:00:56.157
so it doesn't matter.

01:00:56.538 --> 01:00:58.418
All of that kind of stuff.

01:00:58.518 --> 01:01:00.159
It's different uses for different things.

01:01:00.659 --> 01:01:03.280
I think for people who can't have multiple

01:01:03.300 --> 01:01:03.760
devices,

01:01:04.179 --> 01:01:06.001
I think we would all agree that Mac

01:01:06.041 --> 01:01:07.400
is way more private and secure than

01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:09.141
Windows.

01:01:09.202 --> 01:01:09.862
If somebody was like,

01:01:09.961 --> 01:01:11.702
I have programs that just won't run on

01:01:11.742 --> 01:01:13.242
Linux, given the choice between the two,

01:01:13.384 --> 01:01:15.943
I would personally recommend a Mac.

01:01:16.485 --> 01:01:18.125
Again, there's a premium there.

01:01:18.184 --> 01:01:18.885
If they have the money,

01:01:19.025 --> 01:01:19.806
I would recommend a Mac.

01:01:19.846 --> 01:01:20.025
But

01:01:20.585 --> 01:01:21.387
It's a, you know, yeah,

01:01:21.447 --> 01:01:22.952
my point being is like, I think, yeah,

01:01:22.972 --> 01:01:23.512
we agree with you.

01:01:23.532 --> 01:01:25.577
I don't think we're advocating for people

01:01:25.617 --> 01:01:26.400
to use Mac.

01:01:26.420 --> 01:01:26.800
It's just...

01:01:28.021 --> 01:01:28.942
You know,

01:01:28.961 --> 01:01:30.061
different things for different use cases.

01:01:30.202 --> 01:01:31.282
I do like their hardware, though.

01:01:31.623 --> 01:01:33.784
I will say I have two MacBook Pros.

01:01:33.824 --> 01:01:35.364
I have this M for MacBook Pro and

01:01:35.385 --> 01:01:36.965
I have an M one MacBook Pro and

01:01:37.025 --> 01:01:39.166
I use Linux on that one because I

01:01:39.206 --> 01:01:41.447
think it's the nicest Linux machine.

01:01:41.807 --> 01:01:42.748
Um, but yeah,

01:01:42.929 --> 01:01:44.048
in terms of multiple devices,

01:01:44.108 --> 01:01:45.650
I switched between that and I mainly use

01:01:45.670 --> 01:01:50.733
this one for writing and videos and the

01:01:50.753 --> 01:01:51.753
other one for all the other stuff.

01:01:52.114 --> 01:01:55.014
So cool.

01:01:55.054 --> 01:01:56.255
Um,

01:01:57.963 --> 01:01:59.505
I guess in response to what I said,

01:01:59.565 --> 01:02:00.867
how convenient is it to set up a

01:02:00.907 --> 01:02:02.548
custom domain?

01:02:02.909 --> 01:02:04.210
A lot of them have documentation to do

01:02:04.250 --> 01:02:04.329
it.

01:02:04.369 --> 01:02:11.356
Personally, I think it's super easy.

01:02:11.376 --> 01:02:20.286
Take a look at the form again here.

01:02:20.326 --> 01:02:22.487
It always updates constantly.

01:02:23.961 --> 01:02:24.983
I wish I could get all my work

01:02:25.023 --> 01:02:26.403
done on GrapheneOS desktop mode.

01:02:26.824 --> 01:02:27.784
That would be interesting.

01:02:30.547 --> 01:02:30.748
Yeah,

01:02:31.248 --> 01:02:32.969
I'm waiting for the desktop mode for

01:02:33.030 --> 01:02:34.431
Androids to come out.

01:02:35.452 --> 01:02:36.893
They have some form of desktop mode right

01:02:36.913 --> 01:02:37.012
now.

01:02:37.052 --> 01:02:38.434
I haven't given it a try.

01:02:38.494 --> 01:02:39.795
I know some other people on our team

01:02:39.815 --> 01:02:41.117
have given it a try.

01:02:42.998 --> 01:02:46.880
And I don't know what the latest is

01:02:46.981 --> 01:02:47.382
on that.

01:02:50.273 --> 01:02:52.195
I got a comment from Mr.

01:02:52.275 --> 01:02:54.635
Rabbit asking about moderation on the

01:02:54.735 --> 01:02:55.155
form.

01:02:57.076 --> 01:02:58.476
I'm not sure I totally understand this

01:02:58.516 --> 01:02:59.596
question because I don't think we have

01:02:59.655 --> 01:03:01.317
heavy-handed moderation in the first

01:03:01.396 --> 01:03:01.717
place.

01:03:02.376 --> 01:03:04.536
I think the moderation on the form is

01:03:04.577 --> 01:03:05.197
going pretty well.

01:03:06.177 --> 01:03:07.498
But there are some discussions about that

01:03:07.557 --> 01:03:08.097
going on.

01:03:10.159 --> 01:03:12.119
And we're going to post an update on

01:03:12.139 --> 01:03:15.659
the form when we know more about what

01:03:15.699 --> 01:03:16.219
we want to do.

01:03:16.780 --> 01:03:19.101
So yeah, I think

01:03:21.697 --> 01:03:22.759
Kind of all I could say, really.

01:03:22.778 --> 01:03:24.681
I don't think it's a huge issue.

01:03:25.862 --> 01:03:27.063
I'll be honest, I have nothing to add.

01:03:28.324 --> 01:03:29.684
I don't really spend a lot of time

01:03:29.704 --> 01:03:31.186
on the forum just because I'm so busy

01:03:31.206 --> 01:03:31.887
with other stuff.

01:03:31.967 --> 01:03:33.367
If somebody calls attention to a specific

01:03:33.407 --> 01:03:34.889
post or something, I'll go look at it.

01:03:35.048 --> 01:03:36.329
And, you know,

01:03:36.771 --> 01:03:37.711
I go in every week to, like,

01:03:37.731 --> 01:03:39.693
pull what are the hot topics for the

01:03:39.893 --> 01:03:40.434
podcast.

01:03:40.474 --> 01:03:41.494
But even then, I just, like,

01:03:42.942 --> 01:03:43.842
We were actually talking about this

01:03:43.882 --> 01:03:44.282
beforehand.

01:03:44.362 --> 01:03:46.643
I sort by basically what topics are hot

01:03:46.684 --> 01:03:48.425
right now, and I'm like, oh,

01:03:48.445 --> 01:03:49.625
these would be good things to talk about.

01:03:51.085 --> 01:03:52.766
We really put Nate to work over at

01:03:52.786 --> 01:03:53.407
Privacy Cats.

01:03:53.427 --> 01:03:54.447
He doesn't have a lot of time to

01:03:55.248 --> 01:03:56.228
just chat with everyone.

01:03:57.048 --> 01:03:57.989
I like to be busy, though,

01:03:58.010 --> 01:03:59.630
and it's fun.

01:03:59.750 --> 01:04:00.311
It's a good job.

01:04:00.510 --> 01:04:01.030
I like this job.

01:04:02.052 --> 01:04:02.652
Configuration.

01:04:02.711 --> 01:04:04.373
Hey, the new MacBook Neo is a catch.

01:04:05.672 --> 01:04:06.534
I said this on our forum,

01:04:06.554 --> 01:04:07.594
but I'll say it again here.

01:04:07.713 --> 01:04:10.556
I think if the Asahi Linux team...

01:04:11.893 --> 01:04:13.213
knows what they're doing and also if they

01:04:13.233 --> 01:04:15.574
have the resources which is no guarantee

01:04:15.594 --> 01:04:17.554
because obviously it's a small open source

01:04:17.594 --> 01:04:19.135
project so they might not be able to

01:04:19.175 --> 01:04:22.396
do this but if they can Linux on

01:04:22.556 --> 01:04:25.117
the new MacBook Neo would be crazy I

01:04:25.157 --> 01:04:27.757
think so many people would would buy that

01:04:28.597 --> 01:04:31.679
that would be especially if you're just

01:04:31.699 --> 01:04:33.539
like web browsing and stuff and you want

01:04:33.579 --> 01:04:35.780
to avoid Mac OS but you don't need

01:04:35.800 --> 01:04:36.119
a super

01:04:37.391 --> 01:04:38.552
I don't even want to say that because

01:04:38.592 --> 01:04:40.494
the MacBook Neo is surprisingly powerful.

01:04:40.554 --> 01:04:42.835
But unless you're doing video editing,

01:04:42.856 --> 01:04:43.797
it's probably not for you.

01:04:44.777 --> 01:04:45.838
But I think a lot of people just

01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:49.541
basically need Chromebook-like hardware.

01:04:49.922 --> 01:04:51.702
A lot of things are done in the

01:04:51.742 --> 01:04:52.684
web browser these days.

01:04:53.184 --> 01:04:55.726
And being able to install Linux on that

01:04:55.746 --> 01:04:59.028
device would be huge.

01:04:59.088 --> 01:04:59.489
Because, I mean,

01:04:59.509 --> 01:05:02.411
it's certainly better than a Chromebook.

01:05:02.451 --> 01:05:03.672
Both in terms of being able to use

01:05:03.711 --> 01:05:06.074
Linux and also just the hardware battery

01:05:06.114 --> 01:05:07.054
life performance.

01:05:08.894 --> 01:05:12.137
yeah I mean you know I was interested

01:05:12.177 --> 01:05:13.538
in it but then I thought about it

01:05:13.557 --> 01:05:14.599
I'm like yeah that might be kind of

01:05:14.619 --> 01:05:17.000
a tough tough order for for video editing

01:05:17.081 --> 01:05:20.061
but it gigs around is a bit tough

01:05:20.202 --> 01:05:21.824
yeah I'd hope to yeah and also the

01:05:21.963 --> 01:05:23.425
the screen size like because I sent it

01:05:23.445 --> 01:05:26.126
to I know my my sister has I

01:05:26.266 --> 01:05:28.188
think she's still on Windows X and hasn't

01:05:29.708 --> 01:05:31.309
I don't think her computer can do XI

01:05:31.489 --> 01:05:32.471
and I've tried to get her to switch

01:05:32.490 --> 01:05:34.452
to Linux she's a little worried about it

01:05:34.791 --> 01:05:36.273
so I'm actually gonna see her in a

01:05:36.313 --> 01:05:36.954
few months and

01:05:37.594 --> 01:05:38.554
or in a few weeks, I think.

01:05:38.713 --> 01:05:39.914
And I'm going to see if like, Hey,

01:05:40.074 --> 01:05:41.175
can I install Linux on your computer?

01:05:41.215 --> 01:05:42.054
Can I walk you through this?

01:05:42.114 --> 01:05:43.315
But, um,

01:05:43.335 --> 01:05:44.735
so I sent her the MacBook Neo thing.

01:05:44.755 --> 01:05:45.315
Cause I'm like, Hey,

01:05:45.335 --> 01:05:46.556
this is relatively cheap.

01:05:46.615 --> 01:05:47.016
It's like,

01:05:47.056 --> 01:05:47.996
if all you're doing is browsing the

01:05:48.016 --> 01:05:49.056
internet, it works great.

01:05:49.416 --> 01:05:50.217
I know you'll have to get used to

01:05:50.257 --> 01:05:51.137
Mac, but I trust you.

01:05:51.217 --> 01:05:52.016
You'll, you'll be fine.

01:05:52.556 --> 01:05:54.056
But, uh, she immediately,

01:05:54.117 --> 01:05:54.898
and not like angry,

01:05:54.938 --> 01:05:58.157
but the first thing she noticed,

01:05:58.177 --> 01:06:01.018
she's like, Oh, yeah, that's fair.

01:06:01.518 --> 01:06:02.458
I will agree with you on that.

01:06:02.498 --> 01:06:03.938
So it would be cool if they had

01:06:03.978 --> 01:06:04.378
like even a

01:06:07.753 --> 01:06:08.713
Yeah, I don't know.

01:06:08.733 --> 01:06:09.034
It's cool.

01:06:09.114 --> 01:06:09.554
I like it.

01:06:09.614 --> 01:06:10.996
It's just, unfortunately, I want one.

01:06:11.835 --> 01:06:13.076
It's like that phone we talked about a

01:06:13.115 --> 01:06:15.356
couple weeks ago that runs Linux, Android,

01:06:15.878 --> 01:06:17.038
and Windows.

01:06:17.418 --> 01:06:17.858
I want it.

01:06:17.978 --> 01:06:18.639
I don't need it,

01:06:18.878 --> 01:06:20.119
but I want it just because I think

01:06:20.139 --> 01:06:21.639
it's cool and I like the idea.

01:06:23.621 --> 01:06:25.722
As Jordan just said in the chat, yeah,

01:06:26.702 --> 01:06:28.483
Asahi Linux is still limited to M.I.

01:06:28.503 --> 01:06:28.844
and M.I.

01:06:28.884 --> 01:06:30.063
And that's the main reason I bring up

01:06:30.083 --> 01:06:31.385
the whole resources thing because I don't

01:06:31.425 --> 01:06:31.625
really...

01:06:32.909 --> 01:06:34.972
fully know what the status of the Asahi

01:06:35.012 --> 01:06:35.893
Linux project is.

01:06:36.934 --> 01:06:37.293
I agree,

01:06:37.313 --> 01:06:38.635
it seems kind of like it's stalled,

01:06:38.835 --> 01:06:42.358
and I hope that's not really the case.

01:06:42.378 --> 01:06:44.001
But I don't keep up with it too

01:06:44.021 --> 01:06:45.563
much in terms of what the developers are

01:06:45.583 --> 01:06:48.224
doing, unfortunately.

01:06:48.244 --> 01:06:50.547
So it could be anything.

01:06:50.588 --> 01:06:51.367
But yeah,

01:06:51.528 --> 01:06:54.652
if they are able to support newer stuff,

01:06:54.692 --> 01:06:55.652
that would be fantastic.

01:06:58.001 --> 01:06:59.021
But yeah, we'll see.

01:06:59.141 --> 01:07:00.242
I think it's a bummer that it's still

01:07:00.262 --> 01:07:00.942
limited to M.One.

01:07:01.282 --> 01:07:01.722
And maybe,

01:07:01.862 --> 01:07:03.382
I believe they support the M.One MacBook

01:07:03.442 --> 01:07:03.621
Air.

01:07:03.681 --> 01:07:05.483
So probably if you're looking for a Linux

01:07:05.543 --> 01:07:07.382
laptop now and like the MacBook Neo is

01:07:07.402 --> 01:07:07.922
convincing,

01:07:08.023 --> 01:07:11.664
I think the M.One MacBook Air is probably

01:07:12.123 --> 01:07:13.864
around the same price as the Neo and

01:07:13.905 --> 01:07:15.545
it's the same performance.

01:07:15.585 --> 01:07:18.065
So a lot of options.

01:07:18.106 --> 01:07:22.407
Probably in a few minutes.

01:07:22.427 --> 01:07:22.686
Okay.

01:07:25.751 --> 01:07:27.211
Jordan said thirteen is a nice size.

01:07:27.251 --> 01:07:28.413
I mean, yeah, it's great for travel.

01:07:29.612 --> 01:07:32.155
Yeah.

01:07:32.235 --> 01:07:33.675
I don't know.

01:07:33.695 --> 01:07:35.257
That may sound very counterintuitive to

01:07:35.436 --> 01:07:37.277
get a laptop and not travel,

01:07:37.338 --> 01:07:38.778
but I am that kind of person.

01:07:39.554 --> 01:07:40.215
configuration set,

01:07:40.235 --> 01:07:41.376
I bet it would be a game changer

01:07:41.436 --> 01:07:42.695
in most education systems.

01:07:44.775 --> 01:07:47.077
I can tell you from the perspective of

01:07:47.157 --> 01:07:51.157
having done IT for a large education

01:07:51.197 --> 01:07:52.559
system in Minnesota,

01:07:53.838 --> 01:07:56.260
it definitely will not be a big game

01:07:56.280 --> 01:07:57.820
changer for at least K-level.

01:07:57.900 --> 01:07:59.320
I think it'll be huge for college students

01:07:59.340 --> 01:07:59.721
for sure.

01:08:00.221 --> 01:08:01.900
Maybe some high schools will adopt it,

01:08:01.940 --> 01:08:04.342
especially if they want to show off,

01:08:04.802 --> 01:08:06.621
which definitely some schools do.

01:08:07.123 --> 01:08:07.382
But

01:08:10.123 --> 01:08:16.087
Repairability-wise, I think... Nope.

01:08:16.108 --> 01:08:18.868
Repairability-wise,

01:08:19.009 --> 01:08:21.270
replacing a screen on a Chromebook is

01:08:21.331 --> 01:08:22.671
like, I don't know,

01:08:22.832 --> 01:08:23.872
twenty bucks or something,

01:08:23.893 --> 01:08:25.713
whereas the screen on a MacBook Neo,

01:08:25.734 --> 01:08:26.713
I don't even know what you're going to

01:08:26.734 --> 01:08:27.014
do.

01:08:28.534 --> 01:08:29.555
The other thing is,

01:08:31.938 --> 01:08:33.118
and the more important thing, I think,

01:08:33.137 --> 01:08:35.960
in education is that management of macOS

01:08:35.979 --> 01:08:36.720
devices is

01:08:37.610 --> 01:08:39.471
such a disaster, really.

01:08:40.653 --> 01:08:43.055
It's just really a pain to do any

01:08:43.095 --> 01:08:44.296
of that stuff on a large scale.

01:08:44.997 --> 01:08:47.719
And unfortunately,

01:08:47.759 --> 01:08:49.659
Chromebooks provide a very compelling

01:08:50.815 --> 01:08:53.056
value proposition to schools because you

01:08:53.077 --> 01:08:55.438
can buy so many of them for cheaper

01:08:55.457 --> 01:08:56.378
than the Neosto.

01:08:56.698 --> 01:08:59.000
And that includes management through

01:08:59.020 --> 01:08:59.439
Google.

01:08:59.640 --> 01:09:02.520
And it includes usually a warranty that

01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:03.702
covers all these repairs.

01:09:04.681 --> 01:09:05.762
And it still ends up being less than

01:09:05.802 --> 01:09:07.042
five hundred bucks per device.

01:09:08.685 --> 01:09:09.987
Which is unfortunate,

01:09:10.146 --> 01:09:12.387
but that's the reality.

01:09:12.587 --> 01:09:13.868
I think for a lot of school systems,

01:09:13.908 --> 01:09:15.668
it's very hard to convince them to do

01:09:16.289 --> 01:09:18.570
the most private option as opposed to the

01:09:18.610 --> 01:09:20.171
cheapest option you possibly can.

01:09:20.190 --> 01:09:22.872
That usually ends up how most schools and

01:09:23.153 --> 01:09:24.913
some government programs end up being in

01:09:24.974 --> 01:09:25.234
general.

01:09:26.726 --> 01:09:26.966
Oh, well.

01:09:27.887 --> 01:09:28.627
Yeah, exactly.

01:09:29.148 --> 01:09:30.809
Exactly like this commenter just said.

01:09:30.849 --> 01:09:34.810
They will continue to just buy e-waste.

01:09:37.011 --> 01:09:38.592
I think they're getting ready to open

01:09:38.632 --> 01:09:39.113
doors.

01:09:40.033 --> 01:09:40.234
Yeah,

01:09:40.354 --> 01:09:42.954
I think we'll probably start wrapping up

01:09:42.994 --> 01:09:45.836
this stream because, like we said earlier,

01:09:46.277 --> 01:09:48.438
we're at EFF Austin right now.

01:09:48.917 --> 01:09:50.078
They have this party going on.

01:09:50.118 --> 01:09:51.078
It starts at six.

01:09:52.198 --> 01:09:54.300
But the place that we're at now opens

01:09:54.501 --> 01:09:54.720
at...

01:09:55.480 --> 01:09:56.680
Five, so a few minutes ago.

01:09:56.801 --> 01:09:58.162
So people are starting to mill in.

01:09:58.181 --> 01:10:00.462
We'll see how many people show up at

01:10:00.483 --> 01:10:00.743
this thing.

01:10:00.783 --> 01:10:02.363
I think it'll be pretty cool, though.

01:10:02.404 --> 01:10:03.344
I think it's going to be good.

01:10:03.463 --> 01:10:04.925
We have a very cool space here.

01:10:05.604 --> 01:10:07.365
I wish we could record here all the

01:10:07.405 --> 01:10:09.746
time and just go up to...

01:10:10.226 --> 01:10:11.846
I don't know how often they do events

01:10:11.867 --> 01:10:12.927
like this with speakers, but...

01:10:15.087 --> 01:10:15.448
Yeah,

01:10:15.488 --> 01:10:18.408
we're at the Butterfly Bar in Austin,

01:10:19.389 --> 01:10:19.969
Vortex.

01:10:20.088 --> 01:10:22.069
I want to share the list of speakers

01:10:23.170 --> 01:10:24.670
at this event here.

01:10:24.689 --> 01:10:26.229
At six o'clock, Hugh Forrest,

01:10:27.010 --> 01:10:28.671
former president of South by Southwest,

01:10:28.711 --> 01:10:29.350
is speaking.

01:10:30.051 --> 01:10:31.270
Then at six thirty-five, Dr.

01:10:31.310 --> 01:10:32.251
Sharon Strover.

01:10:33.252 --> 01:10:34.752
Then there's a bit of a break for

01:10:34.792 --> 01:10:35.471
music, I believe.

01:10:35.492 --> 01:10:36.631
And then at eight o'clock,

01:10:37.412 --> 01:10:39.893
there's a panel of the Austin Technology

01:10:39.912 --> 01:10:40.292
Commission.

01:10:41.012 --> 01:10:41.932
And then at eight,

01:10:41.953 --> 01:10:44.774
there's a talk from John Lipkowski.

01:10:45.435 --> 01:10:48.756
And then pretty much in that seven to

01:10:49.176 --> 01:10:49.997
nine period,

01:10:50.016 --> 01:10:51.377
there will be musicians outside on the

01:10:51.417 --> 01:10:51.957
main stage.

01:10:54.158 --> 01:10:56.180
And yeah, a lot of stuff going on.

01:10:56.380 --> 01:10:58.820
They have a bar here, food, food truck,

01:11:00.862 --> 01:11:01.402
all that stuff.

01:11:01.483 --> 01:11:02.783
We'll see who shows up.

01:11:03.323 --> 01:11:04.444
There should be some other

01:11:06.328 --> 01:11:09.029
hands-on stuff and other smaller events

01:11:09.069 --> 01:11:09.689
going on.

01:11:11.051 --> 01:11:11.831
All kinds of cool stuff.

01:11:11.890 --> 01:11:14.152
It's a very cool event, and obviously,

01:11:14.212 --> 01:11:16.814
you know, it starts in fifty minutes,

01:11:16.993 --> 01:11:19.475
but I don't know if any of you

01:11:19.675 --> 01:11:20.355
plan to make it,

01:11:20.376 --> 01:11:21.315
or if you're in Austin.

01:11:21.956 --> 01:11:24.457
We talked about it a bit last week,

01:11:24.478 --> 01:11:26.698
of course, and I mean, if you're local,

01:11:27.078 --> 01:11:28.640
there's certainly still time to stop by.

01:11:28.800 --> 01:11:30.140
I think you can come by anytime,

01:11:30.161 --> 01:11:32.162
because it's open until ten p.m.,

01:11:33.122 --> 01:11:33.322
so

01:11:34.382 --> 01:11:35.703
there's stuff going on all night.

01:11:36.104 --> 01:11:36.685
And we'll be here.

01:11:38.087 --> 01:11:41.750
And yeah, as far as those talks go,

01:11:41.770 --> 01:11:45.273
we're definitely hoping to talk with some

01:11:45.313 --> 01:11:47.015
of the speakers as well or get some

01:11:47.034 --> 01:11:48.296
of that content available.

01:11:48.336 --> 01:11:49.577
So we can hopefully share some of the

01:11:49.617 --> 01:11:50.859
stuff that we saw here.

01:11:51.439 --> 01:11:54.061
But we will keep everyone posted on what

01:11:54.082 --> 01:11:56.984
that looks like probably next week.

01:11:57.045 --> 01:11:58.024
Yep.

01:11:58.126 --> 01:11:58.485
I got nothing on.

01:11:58.525 --> 01:11:59.627
All right.

01:12:03.453 --> 01:12:05.274
You want to do the outro?

01:12:05.295 --> 01:12:05.574
Sure.

01:12:05.595 --> 01:12:05.795
All right.

01:12:05.814 --> 01:12:05.994
All right.

01:12:06.036 --> 01:12:07.216
So all the updates from this week in

01:12:07.256 --> 01:12:09.096
privacy will be shared on the blog every

01:12:09.117 --> 01:12:09.377
week.

01:12:09.436 --> 01:12:10.877
That post is actually live now.

01:12:11.297 --> 01:12:13.179
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01:12:13.198 --> 01:12:14.680
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01:12:15.300 --> 01:12:17.261
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01:12:17.301 --> 01:12:18.761
that actually right before we start the

01:12:18.782 --> 01:12:19.103
stream.

01:12:19.143 --> 01:12:20.563
So that's a good reminder that the stream

01:12:20.603 --> 01:12:22.203
is starting and it's got all the sources

01:12:22.224 --> 01:12:23.465
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01:12:23.904 --> 01:12:25.105
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01:13:18.841 --> 01:13:19.221
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01:13:19.623 --> 01:13:20.345
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