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Culture has always been the backdrop for marketing, but in the next 25 years, can brands and creatives become true culture makers, or are they destined to follow? In this episode of Hard Refresh, host Andrés López-Varela is joined by Jonathan Harley (media and tech executive, ex-Canva/Twitter/60 Minutes), Tess Palmyre (Founder, Brandable), and Tim Duggan (Author and Chair, Digital Publishers Alliance) to unpack the stakes.
From Trump tweeting about Cracker Barrel’s logo to the backlash against DEI, the panel weighs whether marketers can authentically shape culture, or if values-driven storytelling is the only ballast in increasingly turbulent times.
From Trump tweeting about Cracker Barrel’s logo to the backlash against DEI, the panel weighs whether marketers can authentically shape culture, or if values-driven storytelling is the only ballast in increasingly turbulent times.
In this episode:
- Culture wars on fast forward
Tim points to the recent Cracker Barrel logo saga, where Trump’s tweets sparked boycotts, as proof brands are now reacting to culture instead of leading it. - Purpose under pressure
Tess and Jonathan argue values can’t just be slogans; Target’s retreat from DEI vs. Costco’s consistency shows who survives cultural turbulence. - Authenticity as ballast
Jonathan stresses that authenticity is grounded in values, not marketing spin, and is the only way brands can navigate volatile cultural seas in the digital age. - Fragmentation VS mega-brands
Tim warns we may end up with “10 mega-brands and 10 million scraps” in future, while Jonathan highlights Canva and Red Bull as examples of brands acting like cultural institutions. - Humanity shines through AI "slop"
Tess insists that even in a sea of sameness, audiences gravitate back to messy, human, imperfect stories and that those are the cracks where culture happens.
This episode was recorded on the traditional lands of the Whadjuk Noongar people, live at State of Social '25.
Creators and Guests
Host
Guest
Jonathan Harley
Jonathan Harley is a technology and media executive who has worked with Canva, Twitter, 60 Minutes Australia as well as ABC News and Current Affairs. On his journey from foreign correspondent to tech exec, Jonathan focusses on human-centred storytelling, combined with the best digital tools. Now, as AI revolutionises content creation, it is critical to understand the difference between storytelling tools and techniques. But there’s good news for the multi-skillers: the fast-paced rate of change means that generalists may well be about to have their day!
Guest
Tess Palmyre
Founder of Brandable and DEI Lead for WAMA, Tess helps organisations cut the crap and build brands that actually connect – with purpose, with people, and with integrity. She shows businesses how to show up in a polarised world without faking it, fusing cultural intelligence, inclusive strategy, and honest storytelling to create real connection that actually matters. A former teacher and proudly Seychellois foster mum to two Noongar girls, Tess brings lived experience, sharp strategy and zero tolerance for performative nonsense. She was named on the 2025 AdNews Champions of Change Power List for driving real impact in the DEI space. This is her third time speaking at State of Social, and her 2025 session pulls no punches. It’s a call to action – or maybe a call to arms – for marketers and leaders who claim to care about inclusion… but still want it to be comfortable.
Guest
Tim Duggan
Tim Duggan is an optimist who loves thinking about big ideas. He has co-founded several digital media ventures, most notably Junkee Media, a new media publisher which was acquired by ASX-listed oOh!media. Tim writes a weekly column on work for the Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, WA Today and Brisbane Times. His first book, ‘Cult Status: How to build a business people adore’ was awarded the Best Entrepreneurship and Small Business Book at the 2021 Australian Business Book Awards, and his second book on creativity, ‘Killer Thinking: How to turn good ideas into brilliant ones’ was named one of the Best Books of 2022 by Apple Books. Tim’s latest book, ‘Work Backwards: The revolutionary method to work smarter and live better’ explores how anyone can take advantage of a once-in-a-generations moment to rethink how and why we work. Tim is the Chair of the Digital Publishers Alliance, a group representing over one hundred and fifty titles from Australia’s leading independent digital publishers, and currently lives in Europe with his husband.
What is Hard Refresh?
Discover what’s in store for us in the next 25 years of digital marketing and how the first 25 years of this century shaped our industry (and the world), in Hard Refresh.
This limited 10-episode series from Australia’s best marketing conference, State of Social, looks ahead at what trends, technologies, cultural shifts, and maybe even controversies, will define digital marketing over the next 25 years. Andrés López-Varela (a.k.a. ALV), one of Australia's most experienced marketing educators, is joined by a cast of industry leaders picked from the ranks of this year's State of Social speakers to unearth what's next for digital marketing.
Join them as they press F5 to discover a refreshed perspective on everything from the next evolution in social media to the role of marketing in culture, from the future of digital audio to the changing role of online video, from the era-defining impacts of AI and automation to the brave new world for marketing agencies, and much more.
Hard Refresh is recorded and produced on the traditional lands of the Whadjuk Noongar people, the Awabakal people and the Gadigal People of the Eora Nation.