Kevin: Hello and welcome back to Subspace Radio.
It's that time again.
It's time to talk about an episode of Star Trek Discovery, specifically season
five, episode four, Face the Strange.
Welcome back, Rob.
Rob: Look, I am indeed facing the strange right now, which is another weekly
installment of me reviewing Discovery.
How strange is that?
Kevin: You like how I introduced the episode before us this time?
That is, that is like an example of the time twisting mayhem
that existed in this episode.
Rob: are definitely on topic.
Kevin: Yes.
And inspired by this week's episode, we are going to be talking about other
time puzzles, time traps, time problems that have our crews stuck and, uh, using
their brains to get out of the situation.
Uh, but before we get to those, let's talk about this week's episode.
Um, what did you think, Rob?
Rob: There was a lot of focus on, uh, Burnham.
Yes, there is.
Um, but there was a focus on Rayner.
So with this particular time problem, the fact that, uh, Burnham was going
through it with Rayner was actually quite a good setup for the case of,
um, you know, the new crew member.
It's a very Star Trek y way of doing things.
How do we get a new crew member up to date or a new cast member up to date?
Let's put them in a time situation where they go back through the
history of the ship so that we can connect this new character with
this entire legacy of the show.
Kevin: Yeah, some, some real growth from Rayner this episode, I feel.
Rob: Very much so.
We do love a good anti hero or a gruff character that shows a bit of
his lighter side, but not completely.
Kevin: It's like the one on ones from last week were an example of him being asked
to grow and refusing to do so, and it was like, you know, the hero's journey.
That was the refusing the call.
This week was the answering the
Rob: Exactly, and it was that good connection of there going, he did
actually listen, he did absorb all this information, and he does it.
And now, connecting the information to emotion is going to be the
thing that he is growing with and he did a bit of that today.
Kevin: I loved this episode, Rob.
I think this might be my new favorite episode of Star Trek Discovery.
Rob: Well it's not up to that level for me.
It's definitely quite enjoyable but, um, I could see how, um, Yeah, a lot
of the annoying traits of Discovery that people have kind of been put
off by were not on display here.
Even though we had two Michael Burnhams, they got away with not making it
as annoying as it could have been.
So, which is, uh, which is, uh, which is a, uh, a major feat.
Kevin: I think it was the sense of epic and distance come.
Watching, you know, Season 1 Michael and Season 5 Michael come face to
face and realizing just how much they, they've changed, not just in,
in uniform and hairstyle, but in, uh, in characterization as well.
And, wow, like, kudos to Sonequa Martin Green pulling that off.
Like there was no question in my mind that that was season one Burnham.
And there was a difference.
Rob: Very much so, very much so.
Kevin: And trading on that sense of, of distance come, with that final scene
on the bridge where Burnham has to talk down the bridge crew and it is going
back meeting that season one bridge crew that we never got to meet in season one,
Rob: ha
Kevin: and using that as kind of a plot point that none of these people
knew each other or trusted each other and that is the ultimate challenge
that must be overcome in this episode is that Burnham needs to connect with
these people with whom connection was completely lacking in season one.
Maybe with the exception of Tilly.
Rob: Yes, um, it was particularly interesting to have the, uh, the android
character, the, well, the humanoid cyborg, yes, back, again, it was that
case of we did talk about this, um, Uh, quite a few episodes ago about
the lack of emotional impact that that episode actually made because this
character was only a glorified extra, really, and then they sacrificed this
character and you're meant to, they sort of like did, they wrote backwards and
going well now this character's dead now we want you to feel for them and
this is why you should feel for them.
So it was quite interesting to have them back.
It would have been more impactful if it was, you know, say a character like,
um, Tasha Yar coming back or Jadzia
Kevin: Hmm.
Yeah.
This was, this was Airiam's Yesterday's Enterprise, basically.
Rob: Um,
Kevin: It's actually kind of funny because in season one, Airiam was
even played by a different actor, Sara Mitich, who has returned after
playing Arium in that first season.
She has returned as Lieutenant Nilsson, who is Airiam's replacement on the bridge.
But Hannah Cheeseman played, uh, Airiam in season two when she was
killed off, and so we have Hannah Cheeseman back as a guest star
Rob: There we go.
Yes.
It's uh, there's some mess in there about contracts or
Kevin: No doubt.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: But, um, like kudos to the actors that I have such trouble
remembering who played whom and who's returned to play what.
And like, yes, these two women do a good job of creating that character together.
Rob: true.
And I did like the fact that it was through her that, you know, that the
information is all given and she accepts it straight away, which I find the
justification of that was good for me.
So, I went with that.
Um, I was quite interested in the fact that our last, when we did a
time loopy one, which is one of the few episodes of Discovery I really
like that we talked about, the, uh, the Mudd episode time loop one.
Kevin: Ah, yes.
Uh, something, something to make the sanest man
Rob: Yeah, yeah, the blackest night to make the sanest green
lantern shine bright in a day, I believe it's, that's the title.
Don't need to look it up, it up, Kevin.
Kevin: You know me, I look it Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad.
Rob: Course, and Stamets in that one was pretty much one of the linchpins as well.
So, there's something about Stamets that he can, you know, he can be involved
in time conundrums or time puzzles, and
Kevin: Well, that's twice now they've used that, uh, superpower
of his due the tardigrade DNA.
Rob: Those damn tardigrades.
Kevin: I mean, there's, there is something about Discovery that they have so many
kind of unbelievable plot twists under their belts, that when you put them
all on the table and, and, and, and, you know, play fair with them, there
are so many loopholes to things and special powers that people have that,
yeah, it's all a bit wild when you take it at face value, but I feel like they
were being playful with it this week.
Like, when Burnham mentions the tardigrade DNA and Rayner makes a
face, like, they're in on the joke, I
Rob: Yeah, and it's also that case of, you know, when you lay all the canon of a TV
show out and refer to it in its own way, you're going, this is some weird stuff.
It happens in Doctor Who all the time.
Same with a bit of Star Wars with their online streaming shows.
But definitely here, you can see how much has happened within five seasons.
They didn't even touch on the fact of, oh, now we're
thousands of years in the future.
But the whole case of the
Kevin: Oh yeah.
The connection to Calypso, which is a Short Trek.
Uh, I don't know if you ever saw that
Rob: I didn't see that I didn't see many of the Short Treks.
I wanted to.
There's a great one in the lift apparently with, uh, Ethan Peck uh, the characters
Kevin: Speaking of one on ones.
Yeah, that's a good one.
Um, Worth going back to seeing Calypso.
Uh, it is a, it is a beautifully made piece of, of short Star Trek fiction.
Like it's only 15 minutes long, but the premise is, Uh, and this is before
Discovery travels into the future, uh, we as audiences don't know that Discovery
is going to travel into the future.
Um, in this Short Trek, it begins with Discovery in some far future, sitting
in a nebula dormant with no crew aboard.
And the computer, for some reason, is sentient with a woman's voice.
And this is before Zora was established in the show.
And a, a sort of, kind of courier comes aboard, who's not
named Book, but behaves a Book.
And, uh, and that courier who is mystified by this empty starship converses with
and gets to know and eventually falls in love with this sentient computer.
And it's a little love story and they end up, her holographic persona and he end up
dancing on the bridge to these old timey black and white, um, show tune movies.
And that is what's going on on the bridge when Rayner and Burnham step
on and you hear the music playing.
And yes, so we now finally understand under what circumstances in what timeline
the, the Discovery ends up sitting alone in some far flung future, um, talking to
Rob: There it goes.
There and that puts those pieces together.
Excellent.
Makes sense to me.
Kevin: It was to the point where, it started to feel like that was a phantom
limb of canon, that they did that Short Trek, and they enjoyed the artistic
aspects of it, but they were never going to explain uh, and now they have
explained it, and I really like that.
Rob: Yes, um, I, yeah, like we were talking about with, you lay out all
the canon and the fact that they're there talking and how weird it is that
they're going, right, so a traitor becomes the captain of the ship.
Kevin: Oh, it's amazing, I love
Rob: Yeah, that whole case of, so it's like, oh, you're not just a lowly, you
know, lower decker or something like that.
No, no, no, no, no.
You are a classified traitor within the Federation and you're gonna be made
Kevin: And there's something strange about it, that It, for me, it worked.
It landed for the first time this episode.
I don't know if it's the fact that that was obviously so built into the conception
of the series, is we are going to start with this character who has been arrested
for mutiny and follow their journey.
And almost the fact that that was set up, that she was set up to succeed from the
beginning, almost kind of has robbed it of its impact over the years, that every
success she has, there was a sense of, well, this is where we were going anyway.
So it does not feel especially earned.
But looking back on it now, and there was something about seeing
the before and after, that it finally, it, it landed with me.
I don't know if it was just the fact that we were playing this as an emotional
character beat rather than a plot point that really made it work for me,
but for the first time I cared about the journey that Burnham has been on.
Rob: Yeah, I mean, I, I particularly like the fact, like I said, it showed
the whole cycle, life cycle of, of, you know, uh, of a Federation ship, so
you, and it's, it's one of the better, one of the great episodes of Firefly,
I don't know if you ever watched that, there's a great episode of Firefly
yeah, where they go back and find, um, You know, they do the back story of how
they all became members of Serenity.
And this was, you know, the great moment of showing it's, you know, it's in dry
dock and that early start there and then going through all the stages of
it to the point where the potential, you know, worst possible future ever.
Um, it's a great way and that's, that's what you get in a final season episode.
You want to have those episodes where you reflect on what you've done.
It's, it's quite a common thing.
It happens in all Star Trek final seasons and there will be in one of
the episodes that I'll be reviewing.
Kevin: Ooh.
I still think there is a twist yet to come with Rayner.
I don't think, like, he certainly grew a lot.
I think there's going to be some kind of reversion because that, that moment
in the turbolift where he asks Burnham for her override code, and she types
it in in very large numbers right before his eyes, that, again, feels
to me like, something that's being put on the shelf for later in the season.
Like, it is not lost on me that Rayner now has the override codes to Discovery.
Rob: Yes, using the uh, impro term shelving.
Very good use there, Mr.
Kevin Yank.
Kevin: Mm.
Uh, anything else stand out this
Rob: Um, no, that's pretty, yeah, that's, I've pretty much covered
everything but how about you?
Kevin: No, I just want to reinforce, I said at the start, it might be my new
favorite episode of Discovery, and the real reason for that, it, it is character
driven narrative rather than plot driven.
I think so often Discovery has been guilty of being driven by plot.
And this week it was entirely character driven.
And one last shout out to seeing season one Tilly again.
Um, she was magnificent.
Rob: Good stuff.
Kevin: So let's jump into the, uh, the time waves and talk about, uh, past
times our crews have been stuck in time.
Rob: Stuck in time, problems with time, puzzles with time.
Kevin: Yeah.
I've got a TNG.
I don't know if you have anything before
Rob: I do not have anything before that.
Let's go T N G.
Kevin: I brought a few TNGs because especially, uh, I think Brannon Braga
is, you know, well known for writing these sort of time puzzle episodes
and he started his great work in the pages of Star Trek The Next Generation,
so we'll look at some of that.
Uh, when I did go back and look at the original series, I think Wink of an
Eye, which we've talked about before, where the crew gets slowed down or
sped up, well, Kirk gets sped up.
Uh, to the speed of these aliens that have boarded the ship, and the rest
of the crew is slow by comparison, and there is a difficulty working together
across that threshold of speed, but, uh, but not really what I had in mind.
There was also All Our Yesterdays in season three, where, um, they
visit a planet whose sun is going nova, and all of the populace has
escaped through a time portal into other times in the planet's history.
And Kirk gets, accidentally, falls through the portal into one part of the planet's
history, and Bones and Spock go to the planet's ice age and they have to figure
out how to escape together as well.
But it's not really the twisty, timey, wimey that I wanted to bring
to you, a Doctor Who fan, Rob.
Rob: I do appreciate a good bit of that.
Kevin: So I'm gonna start us in Season 2, Episode 13 of The Next Generation,
which is an episode called Time Squared.
And, to me, this is the prototype for this kind of episode.
Like so many other things, TNG did it first, but they hadn't
fully figured it out yet.
Rob: They come back and do it again.
Kevin: Yes, they, again again and and again again.
Rob: Keep on doing it until you get it right.
Kevin: That's right.
In Time Squared, uh, the Enterprise is on its way somewhere.
It's a routine day at the office for the Enterprise, uh, in an
unexplored sector of space, when they detect a Starfleet shuttlecraft
tumbling through space without power.
And they're like, what?
Where did that come from?
There's no other ships out this far.
They tractor beam it aboard in a prolonged effects sequence that there
were plenty of in early season TNG.
But once they get it into the shuttle bay, they open doors and who is inside
but an unconscious Captain Picard.
And so we have Picard finding Picard.
Pulaski is there doing the medical scans and the technobabble is unrefined
this early in TNG, so there's a bit of his life signs are out of phase.
And while they are diagnosing this unconscious Picard in sickbay, Data and
Geordi are combing through the memory banks of this dead shuttlecraft, and
there's a lot made of the fact that they try to plug it into Enterprise
power, and it's incompatible until they reverse the polarity, and they figure
out that basically everything they do with the power has the opposite effect
it normally would on this shuttlecraft.
And meanwhile in sick bay, every time Pulaski puts a stimulant
into Picard, all of his life signs drop, but they figure out that
doing the opposite has the opposite
So there's a bunch of this opposite stuff going on, but that all ends up
being a red herring or it goes nowhere.
They don't really use it.
They, there's a lot of thrashing, plot thrashing in this episode, a
lot of just stringing it out stuff that doesn't really go anywhere.
In the end, they manage to extract some logs from the computer of
the shuttle that shows footage of the Enterprise being destroyed.
And when they check the time codes, they're like, this
is five hours in our future.
Somehow, five hours in our future, Captain Picard leaves the Enterprise
and the Enterprise is destroyed.
And, and how do we avoid this?
So they have the conversation they've had several times.
We've talked about Cause and Effect once before, uh, one of my favorite episodes
of TNG, which is definitely a time puzzle and a time loop, but I'll, I'll refer you
to our episode zero of Subspace Radio, if you want to hear my thoughts on Cause and
Effect, cause we have covered it before.
But they have that same conversation here where they're like, well, we know
something's bad is going to happen, so why don't we just fly in another direction?
And the, the thing, you know, the, the, Well, maybe flying in the
other direction is the thing that causes the bad thing to happen!
We can't start second guessing ourselves.
Let's just do what we normally would do.
And that never makes sense to me,
Rob: Ha, ha, ha.
Kevin: So this is another one of those.
Knowing, knowing the doom ahead of us, let's fly straight into it and hopefully
we'll figure out a way out of it.
As they get closer and closer to the, you know, eventually there is a
space anomaly that appears underneath the Enterprise and it threatens
to suck them in and they're trying everything they can, but nothing works.
But as they get closer and closer to this moment, this recovered Picard becomes more
and more cogent, and Pulaski is saying that basically, you know, our physiologies
aren't designed to exist out of their native time, and so the closer we get
to the native time of this Picard, the more his body is, is kind of readjusting
and he's, he's starting to be able to think clearly and understand clearly.
And at the climax of this episode, we have full on split screen Picard, two
Picards walking down the corridor, debating what to do, but the, the
recovered Picard is still kind of, trapped in the loop of his previous actions.
He knows for certain that he must leave the Enterprise in order to save the
Enterprise, whereas our Captain Picard is trying to figure out, okay, but if
you didn't do that, What would you do?
And that's what this whole episode comes down to.
It's trying to get this other Picard to share his plan B so that they can try it.
And once he gets the plan B, for some reason, Picard shoots
the other Picard in the chest.
Not on stun, mind you.
He leaves a big black mark and calls Pulaski and Pulaski comes and
takes his life signs and he's dead.
Picard shoots himself dead once he's done with himself.
It's all a little, you know, arbitrary and, and all of the kind of vibe is
there of a cool time loop episode, but none of the logic is there.
And I feel like satisfying logic, is part of the formula here.
Rob: It sounds very much Season 2, uh, next TNG where they're still working
out the, the, the wrinkles within their characters and their plots.
So yeah, in Season 1 and 2, Picard is, is very bristly around
the edges to say the least.
So of course he's going
Kevin: It's fun watching them work the problem together.
There's some good character work from Picard who's not used to doubting himself,
but the fact that he is confronted by a version of himself who failed, whose plan
failed, makes him second guess himself in a way that, like, Troi is very aware of.
And, and Troi is following him around trying to give him useful advice,
uh, and he is not listening to her.
In fact, he gets quite, um, upset at her for, for trying to do her job.
And all of that is kind of interesting.
But, yeah, just the, the logic of the time loop thing isn't there.
Um, and it culminates in a, in a scene in the ready room once it's all over.
Riker comes into the observation lounge and he kind of walks in and Picard's,
you know, standing in the dark by the window and he just says, a lot of
questions, number one, damned few answers.
And Riker says, maybe none of it was real.
Perhaps we were all part of a shared illusion.
They end on a point of, maybe it was all a dream.
Rob: Was all a dream.
Yep, yep, yep, yep, that's a early developing of a show where they
just go, um, do we really want to try and justify it scientifically?
No, let's just say it's a shared hallucination.
Kevin: I've got a later TNG, but let's hear one of yours first.
Rob: Well this is the one I only just remembered, and how could I forget it?
I don't think we've talked about it specifically, we have talked about it
in passing, but, uh, And for me, the ultimate in a time puzzle that isn't
time travel but is kind of time travel, uh, The Visitor from Deep Space Nine.
Kevin: Yeah, we haven't talked about it,
Rob: Yeah, so, it is Deep Space Nine, Season 4, Episode 2.
Uh, Michael Taylor wrote this one, directed by David Livingston.
And they really lean into the advantage of our captain of the ship being,
um, or Commander Sisko, still at this point, um, having a son on board.
So it know, that is one of the many things that, uh, distinguishes
Sisko as a captain, as a character, is the fact that he is a father.
He is a father with his son while he works.
A lot has been made of the, you know, the color of his skin, which is an
important step within the franchise, but his relationship with his son is
an important part of him and using,
Kevin: it's the, it's the lesser cited second way that Benjamin Sisko is a
very unique lead for a Star Trek show.
Rob: Exactly.
And so this is in its usual Star Trek y fashion, let's deal with how a son
and a father, you know, relate to each other, with a wacky time hijinks!
So of course, uh, the Defiant is near the wormhole, involved in the
wormhole, there's some sort of, uh, breach within the, uh, warp core,
and it sends Sisko, uh, out of time.
They believe he's dead.
They believe he's dead, gone.
They mourn him, they have a funeral service.
And then, uh, one evening, he appears to Jake, and so begins a life long, uh,
journey, connection, where Sisko does not age at all, but he comes in at irregular
times over the years into Jake's life.
And Jake can never fully move on because he, he can never really live
a fulfilling life because he is always waiting for his father to return.
Um, it's so heartbreaking.
They bring in, um, the brilliant Tony Todd, um, uh, playing, um,
the grown up version of Jake, um, through his adult stages and
even through his old man stages.
Um, so it starts with older Jake and they do a flashback to it all.
It's just Remarkable.
It's a remarkable story about the bond between a father and a son, lost
opportunities, lost moments, um, living a life trapped in the past, um, and how
this freak accident that only would happen in a sci fi show but how it connects on a
real emotional level is, um, is powerful and to have that early on in season
four just shows how, um, you know, how hard they were hitting in season four.
They'd got their three years of, you know, um, their sophomore era of getting
themselves ready, and now, season four, they are firing on all cylinders.
It's a powerful, beautiful, um, uh, heartbreaking story that, again, is the
reset button at the end where everything goes back to how it is, but, um, But that,
that ghost of the past is still there.
That ghost the experience is still there for Sisko, at least.
Kevin: It puts me in the mind of the Voyager episode we talked about, uh,
was it last week or the week before when we were, you know, uh, visiting
these older versions of Harry Kim and Chakotay trying to prevent the crash
of Voyager and when they succeed, everything goes back to normal, but
there's still this echo of these, these versions of our characters who would
no longer exist, but who are sacrificed themselves to put things back to rights.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: This is especially poignant given how Deep Space Nine ends for Sisko,
that Sisko goes into the wormhole and becomes, you know, the, the Emissary,
uh, to the wormhole aliens and, and Jake ends up losing his father after all.
Rob: The final shot, man.
The final shot.
Jake looking out the window of the Promenade, waiting
for his father to return.
You're going, get, get stuffed, Deep Space Nine.
How dare you?
How the very well dare you?
Kevin: get some nice glimpses of like this alternate future
of Deep Space Nine as well.
I remember us seeing kind of an aged up Jadzia Dax, which is another, you
know, character who will never be.
Rob: exactly.
Kevin: will never grow to be
Rob: Never to be that old.
You see, uh, Nog's future, um, within the Federation, so there's little hints
of it there, and you see, you know, Jake is a writer, um, and he, you know,
has disciples, really, people who are fans of his work and stuff like that,
but he's never really lived the life that he wanted to live or the life
that he should have lived because he is tied to this moment when he was a boy.
Um, yeah, it's beautiful.
Tony Todd is incredible.
What a wonderful actor.
I love him in all that I see him in.
Particularly, um, Man on Earth is, uh, he's particularly good in that.
Um, but he's just, yeah, wonderful as a, uh, an aged up, old,
and then grey, uh, Jake Sisko.
Kevin: Part of what makes this one so poignant is that this future that is
portrayed, mean, despite the fact that Benjamin Sisko isn't there to help win
the Dominion War, somehow there is a sense that the world is at peace or that
this, this future is not a awful one?
It is not a, it is not a dark future to be avoided.
The only thing that's really wrong with it,
Rob: Sisko isn't there.
Kevin: Yeah, Sisko isn't there for his son and, but somehow that is enough
for Jake to want to change things.
I'm not sure that would pass muster in, the Starfleet, uh, temporal
Prime Directive but, uh, so be it.
You know, if you manage to change time, no one will know you ever did
it, so Jake gets to have his outcome.
Rob: definitely not a dystopian version of the, of the future's future.
It's not like where, know, it's just a case of everything seems to be going along
and everyone seems to be moving along in a, in a, at a nice, happy, leisurely
pace, it's just that, you know, the one
Kevin: Is there, and there's something about that that makes
it more poignant that Jake is nevertheless willing to sacrifice that
Rob: sacrificed it all because he just wants to see his dad, so.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Um, and those moments, uh, Avery Brooks and Tony Todd do incredibly well,
where he, Tony Todd has to come in for 45 minutes, less than that, and make you
feel as if this bond is, you know, is so strong, and Avery Brooks and Tony Todd
just knock it out of the park, they're just beautiful moments when, like, Sisko's
watching his son age in just flickers.
Is, um, just
Kevin: Jake Sisko's most emotional scenes not played by the main actor Jake Sisko.
Rob: So, um, so yeah, that's mine.
What's your, uh, what's your other time
Kevin: gonna spiral us back to, uh, season six, episode 25 of the
Next Generation with Timescape.
What reminded me of this one was Rayner putting his hand into the
bubble of that time bug and, you know, having a grizzled old hand.
Not the first time that has happened in Star Trek.
And in, in Timescape, um, Picard, Geordi, and Troi are coming back
from a conference on a Runabout.
And so, you know, they're, they're on a road trip.
And they're hanging out.
Um, bantering about the lectures they attended, and it's actually really, you
know, charming writing, uh, but they're basically in the little rec room of the
Runabout, um, sitting around a table, and in the middle of the conversation,
out of nowhere, oh, Data's there as well, Geordi, Data, Picard, and Troi.
Just out of nowhere, the three men, including Data, freeze in front of
Troi, and like, Geordi's in the middle of describing something, and he just
freezes there, and Troi's confused.
It only lasts three, four seconds, and so she just has a moment to take in the
horror of what has happened, and then like they resume, they keep moving.
And, uh, it turns out that these bubbles of or shards of
time are moving through space.
And so this bubble passed through the Runabout and apparently
froze them before her eyes.
And as they're trying to troubleshoot this problem, Troi gets frozen.
And so she's in the middle of explaining what she had experienced, and then
it's a, it's like a smash cut to Geordi scanning her face with tricorder and
she's, she pulls back and is shocked.
And so there's this really kind of tantalizing mystery
of why are people freezing?
Why are different people freezing at different times?
And just as they're starting to get their head around the problem, Picard
notices a bowl of fruit in the middle of the room has gone all moldy.
And he reaches out to it and screams and pulls his hand back
and all his fingernails are long.
Because he put his hand into the bubble fast moving time and it
accelerated the growth of his hand.
Um, and so the, the episode progresses from there, but that initial mystery,
it won't surprise you that this is a Brannon Braga written episode.
Um, one of my favorites.
Also directed by Adam Nimoy, the son of Leonard Nimoy.
Um, so yeah, a good pedigree this episode.
They, once they chart all of these bubbles of time fragments, they find that they
follow a path back towards the Enterprise, and when they get there, they find, frozen
in space, the Enterprise and a Romulan Warbird apparently trading fire with like
frozen in space laser beams and photon torpedoes and stuff and, uh, the entire
scene is frozen and most of this episode is them wearing these subspace bubbles
to shield them from the time difference, beaming onto each of these ships and
in this frozen moment of time trying to unravel the mystery of what happened by
observing a frozen instant across two starships apparently locked in battle,
but turns out to not be so simple, uh, you know, figuring out what happened.
It's, it's really a really enjoyable mystery.
Rob: Well, it sounds quite intriguing.
It's amazing how much time travel has become, like, is a major component
of, say, Doctor Who or something like that, but for Star Trek they
just use it as a means to an end, or like a week to week episode.
So, like, let's do a cool, let's cool, do a little time puzzle.
And there's quite a lot more than I originally thought.
So when we came up with the idea, I went, oh, these are
going to be few and far between.
We're going, no, they're scattered out through the entire, you
know, history of the show.
Kevin: I'm, uh, I'm ceaselessly amazed at how they keep finding a new formula
to play with this, this element of time, or, or frozen time, or being
lost in time, or trapped in time.
Yeah, it's really fun.
There's a, there's an especially creepy scene in this episode where
they make it look like, their way to, uh, main engineering of the
Enterprise and find this cloud of vapor shooting out of the, um, engine core.
And Data casually explains that this is a core breach in progress.
And there is no stopping it.
It has already happened.
It is just happening in ultra slow speed and so it appears to be frozen in
time but it is a event that has already occurred and so there is no stopping
the destruction of the Enterprise.
And they, as I mentioned, they're all wearing these field emitters on their
arms that keep them shielded from it.
But it turns out they are still kind of, they're like deep sea divers who
suffer a bit of the bends after a while.
And so Picard, as they're talking, kind of wanders over to the cloud of vapor in
the background and starts laughing off camera and when we cut to him, with his
finger he's drawn a smiley face in the cloud of vapor and finds it hilarious and
they have to beam him out of there right away because his mind's going a little.
Yeah just that that, uh, contrast of, um, this deadly discovery with
Captain Picard laughing at a smiley face that he's just drawn with
his finger in the cloud of vapor.
Um, yeah, really creepy, enjoyable, and, uh, I think a satisfying resolution
to the episode that I will not spoil.
Rob: Oh, well, uh, if you, if you haven't already, you can be like
me, go out and chase it down and enjoy that tantalizing morsel.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Well, let's go towards an episode that I'd almost forgotten about,
but when I started watching I went, Oh, I know this one from Voyager.
We're going to look at Shattered.
Kevin: I'm looking forward to revisiting this through your viewing, because
I have not seen this one recently.
I barely remember that it exists.
Rob: like we were talking about with a Discovery episode for this week.
It is a typical final season episode.
It's season 7, episode 11.
Let's go, let's go back over the entire history of this show.
Kevin: It's very much the formula of Face the Strange this week,
Rob: Very much so, yeah, and it's a perfect companion piece, so watching
Faces of Strange and then Shattered, you can just see a lot of similarities there.
So, Voyager comes across an anomaly in space, with temporal dilations
and all that type of stuff in it.
We are introduced, well reintroduced into the wonderful, glorious Naomi Wildman.
Uh, cannot say that without, uh, thinking of how Jeri Ryan says it, Naomi
Wildman, and of course, um, one of the Borg children that Seven of Nine had
saved as well, who unfortunately meets,
Kevin: Icheb.
Icheb, who dies in Picard Season 2, if
Rob: who meets, uh, meets a sticky ending at the start of, uh, Season
2, yeah, of, uh, Is it season two or season one of Picard?
Kevin: I remember it as Season 2, I'll double check my facts while you continue.
Rob: Um, so, yes, um, so Chakotay is on his way down to the, uh, to the storage
bay where they are playing card games and, uh, and puzzles and stuff like that.
He's taking one of these, uh, uh, very rare bottles of liquor for
this, uh, regular standing dinner between Chakotay and Janeway.
Uh, he is hit by this, uh, by energy pulse from the time dilation that's approaching
Voyager, and he is then, uh, connected to all different periods of time.
Um, he wakes up and he is, uh, healed by the Doctor, who then he
finds out that, uh, it's not the doctor that he knows, it's a doctor
before he has the mobile uh, emitter.
So, uh, the Doctor's just you've got a temporal problem?
Here, here's a, here, here's a, here's a shot for it.
I can just give you a shot, it's fine.
And he does, he
Kevin: Time problems cause headaches.
Here's a, here's an analgesic.
Rob: Yeah, take two, take two before bed and call me in the morning.
Um,
Kevin: By the way, Icheb died in season one, episode five, Stardust City Rag of
Rob: Yes, it was the first, like, first, when Seven of Nine appears in Picard.
It's her first appearance of, um, of, yeah, Icheb is killed
in the most horrifying of ways.
Um, yeah.
More than, more than one reason why to dislike season one and two of Picard.
Anyway, um, uh, each to their own.
It's a credit to Robert Picardo to be able to, um, throw off just such a ridiculous
justification of why Chakotay can just go through all periods of time on Voyager,
um, and not make it seem ridiculous.
You almost believe him for a second, that's how good Robert Picardo is.
Chakotay is slipping through Voyager and as he enters certain rooms he's
going onto the bridge even before they've gone into the Delta Quadrant.
He goes down to uh, Engineering and Seska's there with um, with
uh, the revolutionary crew.
So great to see Seska back there.
Going to another section where there's the Maquis, you know,
still in their civvy outfit.
He goes in and then he decides to bring Janeway into this.
So typical 90s Star Trek fashion.
He holds her hostage and guides her through with the syringe
at her neck going, I'll use it!
I'll use it, put down your phaser.
And they go through the time dilation and, and um, and they go through this
journey together of realization because she doesn't obviously trust him at first.
Um, and it's all about, it's really about the relationship between Chakotay
and Janeway and not for the first time in the series, there are hints and
nods and winks about do they, did they, will they, won't they, and which makes
it even more ridiculous that at the end of the season they go, Oh yeah,
Chakotay and Seven of Nine are a thing.
And we all nah, get fucked.
Um, if they, yeah, they put so much groundwork into will they, won't
they, between Chakotay and, um, Janeway, which is a kind of a letdown.
You're there going, the first female captain and you're going to do a
romance thing scattered throughout the seasons with her male first mate.
Um, that kind of shat me a bit.
Kevin: The more ambiguous it was, the better it worked.
Like there was this sense that these two people who worked so closely together
leading this ship would inevitably form a bond that transcends friendship.
But does it need to be romantic?
Does it need to be even explicit to the audience?
I think the more we feel it rather than see it, the more satisfying it was.
time they walked up to that line, we kind of went, Look, we don't
need to see what's past that
Rob: It is a weird moment though, where she goes, have we ever?
We've spent all our time together, we've kept things professional, and the look
on Mulgrew's face is, oh, it's almost a case of, I know you can't see my
face, listeners, but she has a look on her face of, oh, what could have been.
And for, like, I, you know, uh, in my past life it was always referred to as
Chakotay was the dogue, Chakotay was always the dogue of Voyager, he was
always, You know, had some sort of, uh, uh, uh, tail that he was chasing,
if you, sorry for the terminology.
Um, but in this one, it's very much a case of, Janeway is the dogue there
going, oh, oh, could I tap that?
Kevin: Well, good on At least it was empowering.
Rob: Yes, so it's, it's very much a, uh, uh, uh, greatest hits of Voyager.
We see the giant disease germ cloud, uh, parasites coming through.
We've got the Borg coming through.
We've got Seven of Nine fully Borg'd up.
We've got old age, uh, Naomi Wildman when she's grown up.
Well, not old age.
She's a grown up Naomi Wildman.
Kevin: Yeah, adult Naomi Weilman.
Rob: So it's all
Kevin: It feels to me like, I haven't seen this lately, as I mentioned, but
just hearing you describe it, it sounds to me like logically it holds even more
tenuously together than what we saw with Face the Strange this week, but the fact
that it is supported by and driven by rewarding character beats enables us
to look past the fact that how would it actually work that walking through a
doorway on a otherwise intact Starship takes you to a completely different time
in its history, like, what is the science of Um, it's, it's nice when a show, you
know, when the characters are so enjoyable that you forget to ask those questions.
Rob: Exactly.
Exactly.
And it is that very much a case of like with this week's episode of Discovery
where you have, when you see B'Elanna Torres from, you know, in her Maquis you
know, days, they're going, there is no way in hell that we would ever, you know,
you tie ourselves to the Federation.
And you go, well, in a couple of years time, um, and yeah, and the time with
Seska as well and her connection with Chakotay, all that type of stuff of how
each of these characters have grown and just, you know, the Doctor tied to just
one room and going, oh, how much we, you know, we do not miss the time when
the Doctor could only stay in one place.
We love him being able to travel around.
Kevin: I'm seeing we even got a Dr.
Chaotica appearance
Rob: is a Chaotica moment and, uh, and begrudgingly Janeway has to pretend
to go full Queen of the Spiders.
Heheheheh.
But yeah, yeah, the actor, think it's the same actor, does return
and is very hammy and And it's all black and white, obviously, so
Kevin: Obviously.
Rob: Does the whole remind me to delete this program
Kevin: It's interesting to me just how similar the formula is to Face
the Strange week on Discovery.
And yet, to me, like, it, you this feels a very, like it is the final season of
Discovery, but I don't think the show runners knew that when they were writing
Face the Strange, like season five had yet to be declared the show's final season.
And so, whereas here in Shattered, they were very deliberately looking back on
the series behind them, knowing they were, they were wrapping all up this season.
In Discovery, it feels more like they are reaching back to pay off these things
that they failed to pay off at the time.
Like that, again, that bridge crew that we never really got to meet at that
time in their history, visiting them now feels like righting a wrong, uh,
or, or connecting something that had been failed to, to be connected before,
uh, and it almost feels like tidying up the show, uh, to strengthen it for
the future rather than nostalgically looking back to wrap things up.
So in a way, I am very much as I was feeling last week.
This deepens my regret that we are working our way to the end of Discovery
here because with each episode this season, I am more and more in the
mood for more Discovery, surprisingly.
Rob: Yeah, it's, it's, it's a shame of just how the show has been structured,
that they need to do these, in some ways, not retcons really, but corrections about
what they have not developed in the past, that they could have developed, and even
with less episodes than they used to have in the 90s, you need to hit all your
ensemble really early on, um, and that's
Kevin: Better late than never, I guess.
Rob: I guess, yeah, and it shows in Shattered just how much history is
there over seven seasons, 24 episodes a season, that we see just a little
moment where all we have of Tuvok is his death scene, uh, potential death
scene, and you, you only feel that for that little moment just because you go,
yeah, we haven't seen Tim Russ at all this episode, but, you know, we, we know
him from every other episode beforehand.
Kevin: Well, I, I feel like I've been through a time loop of my
own this, uh, this episode, Rob.
Rob: Well look, we've all come back around and here we are, out at the
end, what a time travelling cone of interwarping temporal flux it has been.
Kevin: Oh, we didn't even mention All Good Things.
That's another kind of series ender that takes the opportunity
to look back by literally visiting other time periods in the show.
Rob: Exactly.
It's very Back to the Future 2.
That's very much a case of going, let's go look at that important moment back
then from a different perspective now.