WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.723 --> 00:00:25.973 Cathy: Okay. 00:00:26.193 --> 00:00:26.293 I 00:00:26.293 --> 00:00:28.023 Anke: always love it when we start off with a giggle. 00:00:28.423 --> 00:00:32.283 So hello and welcome Cathy, I'm super excited to have you here. 00:00:33.823 --> 00:00:35.993 Cathy: I think we should just sit here and laugh for the next 15 00:00:36.223 --> 00:00:38.339 minutes and give people some joy. 00:00:38.339 --> 00:00:39.110 We could. 00:00:39.110 --> 00:00:40.266 We probably could. 00:00:40.266 --> 00:00:45.723 Oh, so much Anke for having me here today, uh, for this conversation. 00:00:45.723 --> 00:00:46.253 I'm excited. 00:00:46.273 --> 00:00:47.953 I'm excited to see where this gets to go. 00:00:48.273 --> 00:00:48.583 Yeah, 00:00:48.633 --> 00:00:49.143 Anke: exactly. 00:00:49.153 --> 00:00:52.533 That's always the good thing when it isn't, you know, when there's all 00:00:52.533 --> 00:00:53.723 the possibility in the air, right? 00:00:53.723 --> 00:00:54.863 So I really like it. 00:00:55.303 --> 00:00:57.783 Um, okay, let's just start. 00:00:58.133 --> 00:01:05.128 And Why don't you tell people where, where on earth, literally, you are and um, you 00:01:05.128 --> 00:01:06.698 know, what's your connection to dogs? 00:01:08.368 --> 00:01:12.408 Cathy: Well, in the latitude longitudinal sense of things, I am, 00:01:12.448 --> 00:01:16.388 uh, most broadly, well, I'm on planet earth, which we'll start there. 00:01:16.728 --> 00:01:21.298 I am, I am on the landmass known as North America in the portion called 00:01:21.308 --> 00:01:26.218 the United States, more specifically in the Commonwealth of Virginia. 00:01:26.673 --> 00:01:32.123 So it's, uh, in between Charles, uh, Charlottesville and Richmond for those 00:01:32.183 --> 00:01:36.003 who are listening, who may be geography nuts and want to, want to find that. 00:01:36.663 --> 00:01:42.043 Um, as far as dogs are concerned, um, they're my earliest memory. 00:01:42.923 --> 00:01:46.083 Um, literally my, or one of my. 00:01:46.818 --> 00:01:50.088 Earliest memories, which my mother thought was impossible for me to 00:01:50.088 --> 00:01:52.898 have, but it is a memory from infancy. 00:01:53.338 --> 00:01:57.428 It's a memory from my nursery and it's a memory of our dog. 00:01:57.478 --> 00:01:58.448 His name was Pepper. 00:01:58.968 --> 00:02:02.298 He was a mixed breed of some undeterminate. 00:02:03.603 --> 00:02:04.063 origin. 00:02:04.103 --> 00:02:08.093 I'm guessing there was probably beagle, probably lab, probably pit, 00:02:08.143 --> 00:02:10.693 probably some random sort of retriever. 00:02:10.723 --> 00:02:16.143 He was a roughly 40 pound or so brown dog with black spots and white 00:02:16.143 --> 00:02:20.573 spots and gray spots and floppy ears that were kind of cockeyed and 00:02:20.603 --> 00:02:22.243 a pointy nose and a whippy tail. 00:02:22.243 --> 00:02:22.983 He was kind of ridiculous. 00:02:23.203 --> 00:02:28.513 Like somebody took parts from various dogs and just kind of glued them together, 00:02:29.363 --> 00:02:34.613 but he'd sleep under my crib and, um, he would rouse himself when I was awake. 00:02:35.208 --> 00:02:39.318 And we would stare at each other through the slats of the crib and he'd lick 00:02:39.318 --> 00:02:46.868 my hands and nuzzle me and I'd pull up on my elbows and um, I only cried if 00:02:46.868 --> 00:02:48.758 my diaper was dirty or I was hungry. 00:02:49.428 --> 00:02:54.538 Which, if you think about it, were the two things that he couldn't resolve for me. 00:02:55.018 --> 00:02:58.778 So, my mom said she would often look into the nursery because I was 00:02:58.778 --> 00:03:02.298 so quiet for extended periods she wanted to make sure I wasn't dead. 00:03:02.728 --> 00:03:07.648 And um, and so she'd glance into the nursery and uh, she would see 00:03:07.648 --> 00:03:08.808 us just staring at each other. 00:03:09.478 --> 00:03:12.938 Just staring at each other through the slats of the crib or me giggling 00:03:12.938 --> 00:03:15.778 and grabbing his nose like we were, you know, deep in conversation. 00:03:15.928 --> 00:03:20.503 And um, he was hit by a car in front of our house when I was four or 00:03:20.503 --> 00:03:22.723 five years old, deeply traumatic. 00:03:23.303 --> 00:03:30.583 Um, I didn't see him and I didn't, I didn't see him hit by a car, but I can 00:03:30.583 --> 00:03:38.103 describe to you in meticulous detail the office at the, the veterinarian's 00:03:38.113 --> 00:03:44.033 office, the room they brought us into where they had attempted to save him. 00:03:44.033 --> 00:03:45.203 They had just cleaned it. 00:03:45.793 --> 00:03:51.003 And so I can, in acute detail, describe the smell of the room, 00:03:51.563 --> 00:03:54.223 the angle of the light in the room. 00:03:54.233 --> 00:03:58.053 It was fall, so it had kind of the, the sun had that kind of faded. 00:03:59.398 --> 00:04:05.068 sunlight and it was coming in at a weird angle through the window and they had the 00:04:05.108 --> 00:04:08.498 cabinets like the old apothecary cabinets. 00:04:08.498 --> 00:04:11.258 It was an old veterinarian's office and the stainless steel 00:04:11.258 --> 00:04:12.788 table had just been cleaned. 00:04:13.238 --> 00:04:15.808 And so the light was refracting off of that. 00:04:15.968 --> 00:04:18.878 And so oddly there were rainbows all over the room, which of course 00:04:18.898 --> 00:04:20.538 now I understand as an adult. 00:04:21.448 --> 00:04:25.828 You know, well, I understand also, you know, light refracting through things 00:04:25.828 --> 00:04:30.058 creates rainbows, but I also know now that it was likely the rainbow, kind of 00:04:30.058 --> 00:04:31.508 the rainbow bridge, him, him in the room. 00:04:31.548 --> 00:04:32.258 Because I could feel him. 00:04:32.308 --> 00:04:34.858 I could still feel him in the room, even though he was gone. 00:04:34.888 --> 00:04:36.138 And that was confusing to me. 00:04:37.028 --> 00:04:39.108 And, uh, and I said, where is he? 00:04:39.108 --> 00:04:39.508 Where is he? 00:04:39.508 --> 00:04:40.758 And they kept telling me he was gone. 00:04:40.758 --> 00:04:43.228 And I kept saying, no, he's, he's here. 00:04:43.788 --> 00:04:51.968 And as an adult, you know, I, I came to work with dogs as a professional. 00:04:52.558 --> 00:04:58.143 Um, About 12 years ago, formally, formally, I had been working with 00:04:58.163 --> 00:05:03.543 dogs in some capacity as a, what I would call a hobbyist trainer. 00:05:04.233 --> 00:05:08.003 Uh, no certifications, no, no license. 00:05:08.553 --> 00:05:09.323 Don't come after me. 00:05:09.323 --> 00:05:09.973 I have one now. 00:05:10.363 --> 00:05:18.923 Um, you know, and, but just, Um, I, I got my own first, it was years before 00:05:18.923 --> 00:05:20.243 I would have a dog that was my dog. 00:05:20.243 --> 00:05:23.083 We had another family dog who came into the family when I was about 00:05:23.083 --> 00:05:25.978 nine, but he was never really, mine. 00:05:26.108 --> 00:05:30.958 He, he really, um, I don't think he really belonged to anybody except maybe my dad. 00:05:31.818 --> 00:05:33.508 Um, but he was definitely a companion. 00:05:34.008 --> 00:05:38.358 And when I was in my early twenties in California, I got my own dog and 00:05:38.358 --> 00:05:40.828 I did all the research and I figured out what kind of dog I wanted. 00:05:41.028 --> 00:05:43.788 And, you know, I got the puppy and I raised the puppy. 00:05:43.818 --> 00:05:49.188 And it was then when I, I hired a trainer because I knew that I didn't know. 00:05:50.108 --> 00:05:53.188 I knew the life I wanted with my dog. 00:05:53.248 --> 00:05:56.198 And I, and I didn't know how to get that. 00:05:57.153 --> 00:06:01.133 And I found a guy one day, he was in the park, he had a beautiful German 00:06:01.133 --> 00:06:03.243 Shepherd, and it was like watching ballet. 00:06:03.243 --> 00:06:10.933 I mean, it was really, it was the most organic, connected relationship 00:06:12.803 --> 00:06:19.473 I had ever seen between two beings, period, of any species. 00:06:20.003 --> 00:06:23.843 And it was like one breathed out, the other breathed in, and vice versa. 00:06:24.003 --> 00:06:26.023 And they just, they moved almost like one unit. 00:06:26.023 --> 00:06:29.608 So I walked up to him and I said, So how did you learn to do that? 00:06:29.618 --> 00:06:31.108 And he said, I'm a dog trainer. 00:06:31.128 --> 00:06:33.008 And I said, can, can you teach me? 00:06:33.768 --> 00:06:37.118 Because I'm, you know, I have a puppy and he said, how old's your puppy? 00:06:37.118 --> 00:06:39.788 I said, well, actually the puppy's going to be born in a couple of weeks and I 00:06:39.788 --> 00:06:43.058 get him and the guy looked, he's like, wait, you don't even have the dog yet? 00:06:43.358 --> 00:06:45.088 Like, no, but I know that I don't know. 00:06:46.218 --> 00:06:48.718 You know, I know enough to know that I don't know. 00:06:48.748 --> 00:06:49.678 And so. 00:06:50.298 --> 00:06:51.288 Can you teach me? 00:06:51.328 --> 00:06:55.278 And I think he, he told me later that he thought I was just a crazy 00:06:55.278 --> 00:07:00.008 person in the park, but he gave me his number and said that when he heard 00:07:00.008 --> 00:07:01.798 from me weeks later, he was shocked. 00:07:02.378 --> 00:07:05.428 Um, because he thought for sure that he'd never hear from me again. 00:07:05.888 --> 00:07:11.758 And I worked with him and And we worked together for, uh, we started 00:07:11.768 --> 00:07:15.548 when Archie was, um, probably about eight, nine weeks old. 00:07:15.548 --> 00:07:18.478 He'd come to my apartment and just teach me how to be with him 00:07:18.478 --> 00:07:22.668 since I could, didn't want to risk him in any, you know, public dog 00:07:22.668 --> 00:07:23.908 parks or anything at that point. 00:07:24.208 --> 00:07:27.898 And then he would have me bring him to the tennis court in the dog park, 00:07:28.458 --> 00:07:32.468 where we, he was exposed to sight and sound, but not exposed to any dogs. 00:07:32.468 --> 00:07:36.218 And we could see that the, the ground was clean and could keep him safe. 00:07:36.878 --> 00:07:40.148 And then we kind of worked up from there, and after about a month 00:07:40.148 --> 00:07:44.178 or so, um, he looked at me and he said, you don't really need me. 00:07:45.038 --> 00:07:46.118 I said, what do you mean? 00:07:46.118 --> 00:07:47.678 He said, you're a natural. 00:07:48.068 --> 00:07:49.118 You're really a natural. 00:07:49.558 --> 00:07:53.598 And but I, why don't I, you know, it's ridiculous for me to take money from 00:07:53.598 --> 00:07:54.868 somebody who doesn't really need me. 00:07:54.908 --> 00:07:55.198 I just. 00:07:55.783 --> 00:07:57.033 I don't feel good about that. 00:07:57.883 --> 00:08:00.893 Feel free to, you know, call me anytime, ask me questions. 00:08:00.893 --> 00:08:03.403 I'm happy to meet you here in the park and we can work our dogs together. 00:08:03.403 --> 00:08:09.933 And so we, I did that and it was about a year and a half later and I was in 00:08:09.933 --> 00:08:13.893 the park with Archie and I was just like having him jump up on things and sit. 00:08:13.923 --> 00:08:17.603 Like just, we were just horsing around having a good time and someone come 00:08:17.603 --> 00:08:19.013 up, came up to me and said, excuse me. 00:08:19.033 --> 00:08:20.293 I said, yeah, yeah. 00:08:20.293 --> 00:08:20.783 How can I help you? 00:08:20.783 --> 00:08:22.193 They said, are you a dog trainer? 00:08:22.633 --> 00:08:25.443 And I said, Why do you ask? 00:08:25.473 --> 00:08:28.533 They said, well, I just got a puppy, you know, and I just brought him home 00:08:28.533 --> 00:08:31.683 yesterday and I don't know what I'm doing and you're really great with your dog. 00:08:32.013 --> 00:08:34.563 So I nodded my head and I said, uh, yes, yes, I am. 00:08:34.563 --> 00:08:35.673 I immediately called Mario. 00:08:35.673 --> 00:08:37.593 I said, so I just told someone I'm a dog trainer. 00:08:37.593 --> 00:08:38.283 He's great. 00:08:38.463 --> 00:08:39.233 I said, but I'm not. 00:08:39.233 --> 00:08:40.053 He said, yes, you are. 00:08:40.053 --> 00:08:41.823 I said, but I don't have any certifications. 00:08:41.833 --> 00:08:48.868 He said, Most people who have them, you know, and I mean no disrespect, so let 00:08:48.868 --> 00:08:53.818 me just say, if you're a CPDK or you have any of the initials after your name, 00:08:54.688 --> 00:08:58.878 good, like good, you've put it on yourself to get education, but understand that 00:08:58.898 --> 00:09:03.128 the certifications are not something to wave around and say, I'm a dog trainer. 00:09:03.548 --> 00:09:04.788 Um, they're helpful. 00:09:04.818 --> 00:09:05.468 They're important. 00:09:05.508 --> 00:09:06.938 Yes, get educated. 00:09:06.938 --> 00:09:09.048 Yes, understand dog behavior. 00:09:09.048 --> 00:09:13.328 Yes, understand dog wellness and physicality and illnesses 00:09:13.328 --> 00:09:15.968 and pests and things to 100%. 00:09:16.488 --> 00:09:17.138 100%. 00:09:20.103 --> 00:09:24.273 understand that there are a lot of people out there who slap those letters after 00:09:24.273 --> 00:09:29.973 their name who have no more business working with a dog than I do running 00:09:30.043 --> 00:09:34.663 a classroom of one year olds, right? 00:09:34.693 --> 00:09:39.448 They just, and, and it's, it's It's like that with a lot of things, right? 00:09:39.448 --> 00:09:43.048 Like I, I have transitioned my life into coaching humans now through the 00:09:43.048 --> 00:09:45.098 lens of, of the dog human relationship. 00:09:45.128 --> 00:09:47.608 And there's a lot of people calling themselves coaches out there. 00:09:47.938 --> 00:09:48.656 It's just thinking about that. 00:09:48.656 --> 00:09:48.828 Yeah. 00:09:48.828 --> 00:09:49.118 Yeah. 00:09:49.728 --> 00:09:53.458 I mean, they've got fancy, they've got fancy certifications and they've got 00:09:53.488 --> 00:09:58.933 ICF certifications and they went to this school and that school and I, they 00:09:58.933 --> 00:10:03.753 can't find their ass in a brightly lit room with both hands and like their 00:10:03.753 --> 00:10:07.063 own lives are a categorical shit show. 00:10:07.103 --> 00:10:12.433 And it's like, okay, so without being in judgment, which I realized all 00:10:12.433 --> 00:10:18.523 that sounded super judgy, um, that for me, I know more people who just 00:10:18.933 --> 00:10:23.073 know their dog and they know their dog because they know themselves. 00:10:24.823 --> 00:10:32.443 That I can't expect behavior outside of me to shift, change, adjust, or move if 00:10:32.443 --> 00:10:34.223 I'm looking at it as an outside thing. 00:10:34.673 --> 00:10:38.743 If I'm looking at it as everything in the world around me, I am causing the 00:10:38.743 --> 00:10:40.193 conditions in the world around me. 00:10:40.203 --> 00:10:45.153 And a dog is the perfect mirror for us to see how are we doing 00:10:45.193 --> 00:10:46.453 at any given point in time. 00:10:46.473 --> 00:10:47.553 So, I have my blur on. 00:10:47.553 --> 00:10:48.803 You can't see the background. 00:10:49.203 --> 00:10:49.853 Um. 00:10:50.573 --> 00:10:53.483 If you're just listening to this, you're not really missing much scene 00:10:53.483 --> 00:10:55.733 wise because there's, you can't see anything behind me, but there's three 00:10:55.733 --> 00:10:59.613 dogs in the room right now, completely crashed out, completely relaxed. 00:10:59.663 --> 00:11:02.823 And all three pairs of eyes, I can feel them on the back of my head. 00:11:02.823 --> 00:11:03.613 They're just watching me. 00:11:03.823 --> 00:11:06.303 And if I were to get up and leave, you'd see movement in the 00:11:06.303 --> 00:11:07.763 background because they'd follow me. 00:11:08.193 --> 00:11:11.333 And it's the relationship I have with them. 00:11:12.653 --> 00:11:17.073 And there are mornings when it isn't like this because I'm not. 00:11:17.803 --> 00:11:18.603 like this. 00:11:19.333 --> 00:11:23.613 And so, you know, I'll fast forward through. 00:11:23.613 --> 00:11:24.863 I worked in the Silicon Valley. 00:11:24.863 --> 00:11:26.473 I worked in the tech industry. 00:11:26.503 --> 00:11:30.113 Um, I've been in, in and around communications the entirety of my career. 00:11:30.593 --> 00:11:34.093 I have a big fancy journalism degree from Northwestern University. 00:11:34.423 --> 00:11:38.473 Um, so I'm really good at finding typos on things and editing copy. 00:11:38.673 --> 00:11:40.863 Really use, really useful skills it turns out. 00:11:41.623 --> 00:11:43.713 Um, also along with things like. 00:11:43.938 --> 00:11:47.468 You know, critical thinking and communicating and speaking in 00:11:47.478 --> 00:11:49.038 sentences people understand. 00:11:49.868 --> 00:11:55.358 And, and I, I walked away from that about 12 years ago, mostly 00:11:55.358 --> 00:11:58.468 because I never really particularly liked the tech industry. 00:11:58.468 --> 00:12:00.378 The grind of it was always hard for me. 00:12:00.788 --> 00:12:03.028 Um, I never really felt like I fit. 00:12:03.538 --> 00:12:04.508 I loved the people. 00:12:04.508 --> 00:12:05.618 The people are amazing. 00:12:05.628 --> 00:12:08.008 I have lasting friendships and fascinating people. 00:12:08.008 --> 00:12:12.178 And I got to be witness to a lot of things again, no regret, all great, 00:12:12.568 --> 00:12:14.208 but it never really felt like a fit. 00:12:14.863 --> 00:12:20.803 And I got an opportunity in 2012, uh, Tony Hsieh, who was then the CEO of Zappos, he 00:12:20.803 --> 00:12:26.183 is now unfortunately since deceased, is deceased, um, he invited me to Las Vegas 00:12:26.243 --> 00:12:29.833 and he said come to Las Vegas and see what we're doing to redevelop downtown. 00:12:30.683 --> 00:12:32.843 And then he invited my dog, Truman, to come with me. 00:12:33.713 --> 00:12:37.433 So Truman and I went to Las Vegas in the summer of 2012, uh, on 00:12:37.433 --> 00:12:39.733 what was ostensibly a vacation. 00:12:40.043 --> 00:12:41.063 I was there for 10 days. 00:12:41.478 --> 00:12:46.118 And at the end of the 10 days, I had committed to submit a business plan 00:12:46.188 --> 00:12:53.018 for a new take on what a training and educational facility for dogs 00:12:53.018 --> 00:12:53.948 and their people could look like. 00:12:55.188 --> 00:12:59.518 So it was called the Hydrant Club, and I say was because I, I closed the physical 00:12:59.518 --> 00:13:03.968 iteration of it at the end of 2022, um, mostly because the neighborhood, which 00:13:04.148 --> 00:13:08.468 had been made, made great progress for development up until the pandemic, then 00:13:08.468 --> 00:13:12.238 the pandemic happened, then Tony died, and then after the pandemic what's come 00:13:12.238 --> 00:13:18.118 back is, there's a mob of like 300, you know, delinquents on bicycles who ride 00:13:18.118 --> 00:13:22.968 around and vandalize, one of them actually just Put someone in a hospital last week. 00:13:22.968 --> 00:13:27.238 So there's a lot of vandalism and crime and, you know, not a neighborhood 00:13:27.238 --> 00:13:30.228 where you want to be running, you know, a high end dog training facility. 00:13:30.728 --> 00:13:34.778 Um, but I, so I closed the physical location, but I opened 00:13:34.778 --> 00:13:37.938 the phys, this physical location without knowing a few things. 00:13:38.038 --> 00:13:40.268 First of all, I had never run a brick and mortar business before. 00:13:40.408 --> 00:13:41.248 So there was that. 00:13:41.778 --> 00:13:45.188 Second of all, um, I had worked one on one with a client. 00:13:46.068 --> 00:13:48.598 Right, you know, so working individually with clients. 00:13:48.688 --> 00:13:50.738 I had never done group classes. 00:13:51.108 --> 00:13:55.878 I also had never taught other people how to handle dogs. 00:13:55.888 --> 00:13:59.848 And being a dog handler and being a dog trainer aren't the same thing. 00:14:01.138 --> 00:14:04.978 You know, so if I own a dog, I am the dog's handler. 00:14:05.198 --> 00:14:09.728 I should also be their educator and be part of their educational process. 00:14:10.118 --> 00:14:13.968 But there are a lot of people who, like, the relationships are different. 00:14:13.968 --> 00:14:16.058 It's like the, my parents aren't my friends. 00:14:17.093 --> 00:14:20.333 But I have a friendship with them as an adult, but my parents are my parents. 00:14:20.333 --> 00:14:21.133 I have a teacher. 00:14:21.153 --> 00:14:22.523 I might be friendly with teachers. 00:14:22.533 --> 00:14:27.313 Like there's just relationships that have a certain quality to them in order for the 00:14:27.313 --> 00:14:29.493 function of the relationship to happen. 00:14:29.693 --> 00:14:31.083 Doesn't make them any less intimate. 00:14:31.083 --> 00:14:33.493 Doesn't make them any less connected. 00:14:33.543 --> 00:14:35.213 They just have a certain relationship. 00:14:35.213 --> 00:14:42.573 And for a dog, I think the biggest mistake we make is we create a scenario 00:14:42.573 --> 00:14:45.813 for the dog that is impossible for the dog to actually understand. 00:14:46.773 --> 00:14:49.663 A dog is a dog, a human is a human, they are not the same thing. 00:14:50.698 --> 00:14:51.898 Are they loving companions? 00:14:52.038 --> 00:14:52.638 Yes. 00:14:52.738 --> 00:14:54.318 Are they beloved members of the family? 00:14:54.428 --> 00:14:55.288 No question. 00:14:55.518 --> 00:14:58.898 Do they understand us more deeply than most other humans can? 00:14:59.408 --> 00:15:00.108 100%. 00:15:01.038 --> 00:15:01.938 They're not people. 00:15:01.948 --> 00:15:03.048 They're not our fur babies. 00:15:03.048 --> 00:15:04.368 They're not our fur kids. 00:15:04.628 --> 00:15:05.638 They are not my children. 00:15:05.658 --> 00:15:08.538 I jokingly refer to my dogs as my kids. 00:15:08.728 --> 00:15:10.538 Like, hey kids, let's go inside. 00:15:11.398 --> 00:15:16.728 But I'm very clear that there's a, a relationship there that gets 00:15:16.728 --> 00:15:18.878 to have a certain boundary to it. 00:15:19.563 --> 00:15:22.323 in the way that you have a relationship with a two year old 00:15:22.323 --> 00:15:26.133 that's different than with a 10 year old, with a 12 year old, right? 00:15:26.523 --> 00:15:28.073 With an adult child, right? 00:15:28.073 --> 00:15:32.753 So the dog never really goes beyond the toddler phase. 00:15:32.813 --> 00:15:35.663 And so there's a way that I get to be with them. 00:15:36.303 --> 00:15:42.303 And so I didn't know if I could train people and teach them to handle and 00:15:42.303 --> 00:15:44.973 then to also train and teach others. 00:15:45.253 --> 00:15:48.853 Turns out pretty good teacher and coach, who knew? 00:15:49.183 --> 00:15:56.388 And, um, It was, I wasn't so good at first, it was very, very bossy, um, 00:15:56.398 --> 00:16:03.198 very controlling, not particularly pleasant to work for, um, not, I wasn't 00:16:03.198 --> 00:16:07.148 particularly patient or tolerant with some of my clients in the very early days. 00:16:07.713 --> 00:16:11.463 Um, there were some Yelp reviews at the time that reflected how I was being 00:16:11.663 --> 00:16:17.133 for sure, um, and I can laugh at it now as I've, you know, and some of those 00:16:17.143 --> 00:16:20.433 tendencies are of course still there, but I can laugh at them now and say, wow, 00:16:20.693 --> 00:16:22.413 I'm being kind of an asshole right now. 00:16:22.413 --> 00:16:26.353 So that must mean I'm, mean I'm uncomfortable because I'm 00:16:26.353 --> 00:16:28.133 typically a very kind person. 00:16:28.153 --> 00:16:29.433 I'm a very loving. 00:16:29.668 --> 00:16:33.348 You know, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm wearing this fuzzy pink, like I'm 00:16:33.348 --> 00:16:35.258 kind of like a teddy bear, really. 00:16:35.548 --> 00:16:39.858 And when the prickly part comes out, it's usually because I'm scared, uncomfortable, 00:16:39.858 --> 00:16:41.308 or I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. 00:16:44.208 --> 00:16:47.928 And I just revealed, I've just revealed, I've just revealed my darkest secret. 00:16:47.938 --> 00:16:49.988 So there goes all my mystery. 00:16:50.703 --> 00:16:54.053 You know, and so what happened when the pandemic hit was I started thinking, 00:16:54.103 --> 00:16:56.463 all right, so I've got to get creative. 00:16:56.493 --> 00:17:01.583 And besides the fact that over the last seven years, I've really been spending 00:17:01.583 --> 00:17:09.513 more time working through with the humans, what's in their way of being their 00:17:09.523 --> 00:17:15.603 best guardian for their dog, having the best stewardship for their dog, which 00:17:15.603 --> 00:17:17.023 is really what we're here for, right? 00:17:17.133 --> 00:17:21.323 Like we get to put our needs aside, put their needs first. 00:17:21.668 --> 00:17:30.658 And in return We get the most, I mean, there's just, I mean, I, and if, if 00:17:30.658 --> 00:17:37.568 you're listening to this, you know, you get it because you understand what to 00:17:37.568 --> 00:17:44.628 have your soul touched by a dog or a cat or a horse or a ferret or a guinea 00:17:44.628 --> 00:17:51.743 pig or a rabbit or a bird or your child or your plants like to be in loving 00:17:51.753 --> 00:18:00.183 contribution to another thing that you have such love and care for that you 00:18:00.183 --> 00:18:02.823 care for it and put your needs aside. 00:18:02.843 --> 00:18:04.583 And in so your needs get met. 00:18:04.603 --> 00:18:05.803 Like, I don't know how it works. 00:18:05.893 --> 00:18:08.183 I love 00:18:08.183 --> 00:18:10.553 Anke: how you put that because it is really true, you 00:18:10.553 --> 00:18:13.333 Cathy: know, 100%, 100%. 00:18:13.363 --> 00:18:16.873 And I don't get to love my dog the way. 00:18:17.213 --> 00:18:18.423 I want to love my dog. 00:18:19.703 --> 00:18:24.243 I get to love my dog how my dog, each of my three dogs are very, very different. 00:18:24.243 --> 00:18:25.873 They need very different things for me. 00:18:26.163 --> 00:18:31.093 And when I love them for who they are as individuals, my needs get met. 00:18:32.583 --> 00:18:34.913 Not sure how, not sure why, but they do. 00:18:35.653 --> 00:18:40.523 And so I, I pivoted a bit, uh, while The 100 Club was still in, you know, 00:18:40.523 --> 00:18:46.693 physical brick and mortar iteration, I was spending more and more time coaching, 00:18:46.703 --> 00:18:51.233 and I got myself, you know, a, I got myself a certification, um, and no, 00:18:51.233 --> 00:18:54.413 it's not one of the big fancy ones, I didn't, you know, spend 15 grand to 00:18:54.413 --> 00:18:58.673 have somebody say, yes, you can coach other people, congratulations, um. 00:18:59.433 --> 00:19:02.203 You know, when I got myself educated and got myself trained and got 00:19:02.203 --> 00:19:06.083 myself, you know, hundreds of hours of experience coaching and, 00:19:06.603 --> 00:19:08.873 um, started really figuring out. 00:19:08.873 --> 00:19:15.273 So with everyone and their brother saying they're a coach, how does that, how, 00:19:15.343 --> 00:19:17.783 how do I really show my differentiation? 00:19:17.783 --> 00:19:18.953 It really isn't three. 00:19:19.463 --> 00:19:25.033 It's, it's the, the how I do it and, and the lenses through which 00:19:25.083 --> 00:19:29.483 I do it, which is really, I, I work with in communication specifically. 00:19:29.483 --> 00:19:34.163 So the language you use with yourself, with other people, how do people hear you? 00:19:34.173 --> 00:19:35.813 How do they experience you? 00:19:36.243 --> 00:19:37.813 Um, how do you work in a group? 00:19:37.813 --> 00:19:39.133 How does a group work together? 00:19:39.143 --> 00:19:40.243 How do you deal with conflict? 00:19:40.403 --> 00:19:40.603 So those. 00:19:41.053 --> 00:19:43.853 Those are kind of my main, the main tools. 00:19:44.263 --> 00:19:47.533 The lens for the interpersonal communication and one on one is, 00:19:47.613 --> 00:19:51.533 is 100 percent taught through the lens of the dog human relationship. 00:19:52.633 --> 00:19:58.443 The group dynamics, I do that through the lens of music, specifically 00:19:58.443 --> 00:20:02.203 orchestral music, because it's a great example of how groups work together. 00:20:03.013 --> 00:20:07.653 And my, my third metaphor, uh, for conflict resolution and how to deal with 00:20:07.653 --> 00:20:11.103 pressure and basically hold your shit together when everyone around you is 00:20:11.103 --> 00:20:13.863 losing theirs, and that's ice hockey. 00:20:15.043 --> 00:20:20.453 Um, so I take these three completely disparate lenses and kind of weave 00:20:20.463 --> 00:20:24.853 them together in a way, and look, you can use gardening metaphors, 00:20:24.853 --> 00:20:28.293 architectural metaphors, other sports metaphors, cooking metaphors. 00:20:28.293 --> 00:20:35.253 They're all just a way for us to view, um, to get out of our own way, to see, 00:20:35.503 --> 00:20:40.013 to not take ourselves so seriously, and, and to realize at the end of 00:20:40.013 --> 00:20:42.493 the day, if there's conflict around me, it's because there's something 00:20:42.493 --> 00:20:45.963 in conflict in me, period, period. 00:20:46.648 --> 00:20:48.008 Like, it is literally that simple. 00:20:48.308 --> 00:20:51.978 If the world around me is effed up six ways from Sunday, that's the one 00:20:51.978 --> 00:20:55.268 profane word that I won't use here, but it's, you know, six ways from 00:20:55.268 --> 00:21:02.463 Sunday, um, all I have to do is figure out what's What's awry in my own life? 00:21:02.923 --> 00:21:07.323 You know, if there feels like disarray, disorganization and confusion in the 00:21:07.323 --> 00:21:09.523 world around me, I go clean a closet. 00:21:09.613 --> 00:21:11.033 I don't know why it makes me feel better. 00:21:11.033 --> 00:21:13.233 I don't know why my world gets better, but it does. 00:21:13.563 --> 00:21:16.133 Or I look in that stack of bills I haven't paid, I pay them. 00:21:16.323 --> 00:21:17.953 Or the car is filthy, I clean it. 00:21:18.353 --> 00:21:21.563 Or the things I've been saying on, you know, they're stacked on the desk that 00:21:21.563 --> 00:21:22.903 I've been saying I'm going to file. 00:21:23.143 --> 00:21:24.033 I file them. 00:21:24.803 --> 00:21:27.243 The project sitting in the corner that I've been looking. 00:21:27.463 --> 00:21:30.303 Whatever it is that I've been talking about doing, I do it. 00:21:30.323 --> 00:21:33.113 And all of a sudden, order starts to happen. 00:21:33.653 --> 00:21:38.993 And when we look at the categorical shitshow that is our planet right 00:21:38.993 --> 00:21:42.283 now, and you can look in every aspect. 00:21:42.783 --> 00:21:48.143 The environment, politics, I mean I almost vomit saying the word, 00:21:48.143 --> 00:21:53.103 and not a political conversation. 00:21:53.103 --> 00:21:56.273 I think a lot of people would be surprised where, where my 00:21:56.273 --> 00:21:58.023 inclinations actually fall. 00:21:58.443 --> 00:22:01.193 You know, most people think that I'm one way and I'm actually 00:22:01.193 --> 00:22:03.353 not the way they think I am. 00:22:03.813 --> 00:22:05.343 Um, and. 00:22:06.523 --> 00:22:12.413 Because I, because I sit right in the middle and anyone who would 00:22:12.413 --> 00:22:18.623 pull people off a center are doing it for their own, for their own 00:22:18.623 --> 00:22:20.133 means or from their own discomfort. 00:22:20.813 --> 00:22:25.813 Again, it's really that simple because the answer is when you sit down and 00:22:25.813 --> 00:22:28.733 talk with people person to person. 00:22:29.763 --> 00:22:32.673 We may disagree on how to get to point B, but everybody kind of 00:22:32.673 --> 00:22:34.463 agrees what point A and point B are. 00:22:34.653 --> 00:22:35.513 Here's where we are. 00:22:35.553 --> 00:22:36.513 This is shitty. 00:22:36.953 --> 00:22:38.193 That's where we want to go. 00:22:38.263 --> 00:22:39.073 That's better. 00:22:39.458 --> 00:22:43.158 And then we start tearing each other apart on trying to get there 00:22:43.438 --> 00:22:46.508 instead of saying, okay, well, we disagree on how to get there. 00:22:46.508 --> 00:22:49.078 Can we each go our own ways there and both get there? 00:22:49.078 --> 00:22:49.518 Okay. 00:22:50.218 --> 00:22:50.618 Okay. 00:22:50.618 --> 00:22:51.178 We can't. 00:22:51.418 --> 00:22:55.858 So we have to find a way for our two ways to have some relative symbiosis. 00:22:56.458 --> 00:22:58.398 Okay, well, let's figure that out. 00:22:59.378 --> 00:23:00.278 Let's figure that out. 00:23:00.318 --> 00:23:00.668 I think 00:23:00.698 --> 00:23:05.028 Anke: the let's figure it out is a really powerful approach to anything, right? 00:23:05.378 --> 00:23:09.428 It's almost like, oh, the dog doesn't do what I thought the dog should do. 00:23:09.798 --> 00:23:11.098 How can we figure it out? 00:23:11.278 --> 00:23:11.588 Right? 00:23:11.588 --> 00:23:14.178 So it's anything is, I think, helped by 00:23:14.218 --> 00:23:15.118 Cathy: that approach. 00:23:15.278 --> 00:23:16.178 100%. 00:23:17.793 --> 00:23:18.183 100%. 00:23:18.783 --> 00:23:24.443 And I think that, um, you know, again, you know, when, when I walk into people's 00:23:24.443 --> 00:23:29.543 houses, um, you know, I don't do much, you know, just dog training anymore, you know, 00:23:29.573 --> 00:23:36.363 um, just because I'm doing other things, not for lack of, of wanting to do it. 00:23:36.403 --> 00:23:40.153 Um, you know, but for people who have a dog who are also interested 00:23:40.153 --> 00:23:44.973 in upping their own leadership, like, because here's the when I become the 00:23:44.973 --> 00:23:48.673 leader who I get to be in my life. 00:23:49.363 --> 00:23:51.843 My dog's behavior writes itself. 00:23:53.213 --> 00:23:57.393 Most of the really, most of the irritating shit just goes away. 00:23:57.573 --> 00:24:01.843 The jumping on me, the pulling things apart, the not getting out of my way 00:24:01.843 --> 00:24:04.653 when I'm walking down the hallway or being up under my feet when I'm 00:24:04.653 --> 00:24:10.173 in the kitchen or pulling me down the sidewalk on the leash or running 00:24:10.173 --> 00:24:12.723 out the front door when I open it. 00:24:12.953 --> 00:24:17.503 Whatever the thing is, those are all behaviors that are indicators 00:24:17.593 --> 00:24:23.133 of a dog that doesn't see that there is a a leader in its life. 00:24:23.653 --> 00:24:28.263 And for all of these people who, um, you know, are like, you know, 00:24:28.263 --> 00:24:30.773 and again, there's so many different methodologies, but even in the dog 00:24:30.803 --> 00:24:36.023 training world, there's the, you know, they're like, any force is bad with a dog. 00:24:36.053 --> 00:24:41.213 I'm like, well, excessive force is bad with any living being, right? 00:24:42.703 --> 00:24:43.113 I don't know. 00:24:43.113 --> 00:24:46.113 I'm pretty sure the mama dog picks the puppies up by the 00:24:46.113 --> 00:24:47.213 scruff of the neck with her teeth. 00:24:47.213 --> 00:24:48.323 And that's pretty forceful. 00:24:49.823 --> 00:24:50.853 That's pretty forceful. 00:24:50.893 --> 00:24:54.953 And they understand it and they like straighten their shit out pretty fast. 00:24:55.303 --> 00:24:59.153 When Mama shows her teeth, you know, and snaps her teeth at them, 00:24:59.183 --> 00:25:01.043 oh, ma'am, yes, ma'am, they get it. 00:25:01.833 --> 00:25:06.933 She doesn't then take her paw, backhand him across the head, you know, charge 00:25:06.933 --> 00:25:10.953 at them, tearing fur out of them and slap them around and terrorize them. 00:25:12.388 --> 00:25:16.468 But she sure as hell does, you know, give them guidelines, 00:25:16.468 --> 00:25:17.708 you know, and I think there's 00:25:17.708 --> 00:25:22.988 Anke: also this piece of like, being firm, you know, doesn't have, that does not 00:25:23.058 --> 00:25:28.228 mean being, like, punitive in any way. 00:25:28.278 --> 00:25:30.158 Like, you don't, you can be like my parents. 00:25:30.888 --> 00:25:35.798 like was super strict, you know, there was never a slap or anything, 00:25:36.028 --> 00:25:41.928 you know, there was just a very calm understanding that this is, well, you 00:25:41.958 --> 00:25:45.838 Cathy: under, but you understood that the potential was there, but you understood 00:25:46.038 --> 00:25:47.788 you were now, I was never struck either. 00:25:48.083 --> 00:25:48.573 And it had 00:25:48.603 --> 00:25:49.473 Anke: consequences. 00:25:49.483 --> 00:25:53.223 Like if I was, you know, so it's like, it doesn't have to be, I 00:25:53.223 --> 00:25:57.893 think there's this piece that it's easy to misunderstand, like force. 00:25:58.393 --> 00:26:02.863 And like, I think firm leadership, calm, firm leadership, like the dog needs to 00:26:02.863 --> 00:26:07.373 know and a child and a team member or somebody like it's kind of a grown out, 00:26:07.863 --> 00:26:09.013 Cathy: a grown ass adult. 00:26:09.163 --> 00:26:10.513 Look at our world today. 00:26:11.203 --> 00:26:11.923 Look at our world. 00:26:12.353 --> 00:26:13.043 It's a mess. 00:26:13.223 --> 00:26:17.263 Anke: You know, this is, this is what, what we want you to, this is how to do it. 00:26:17.623 --> 00:26:19.823 And if you don't do it, this is what the consequences are. 00:26:19.883 --> 00:26:21.193 And it's really quite simple. 00:26:21.453 --> 00:26:25.593 I guess it doesn't have to be, it can be kind, it can be, you know, calm. 00:26:25.603 --> 00:26:29.033 It doesn't have to be like, you know, so, but it has to 00:26:29.153 --> 00:26:30.723 be consistent and it has to be 00:26:30.723 --> 00:26:31.073 Cathy: firm. 00:26:31.193 --> 00:26:31.483 Right. 00:26:31.543 --> 00:26:33.233 And it has to be followed through. 00:26:33.233 --> 00:26:39.798 And this is where, when I look at human behavior, if There is no consequence 00:26:40.918 --> 00:26:42.938 for something being I will never forget. 00:26:42.978 --> 00:26:46.468 I, um, uh, I had a lot of rules at the Hydrant Club. 00:26:46.478 --> 00:26:53.858 The, the, the, the clients were under an enormous amount of strict guidelines in 00:26:53.858 --> 00:26:56.538 order to even come for their assessment. 00:26:58.228 --> 00:27:04.308 And I could tell you with 100 percent certainty, every time the 00:27:04.308 --> 00:27:09.458 people whose dogs were going to fail, and about a third of them did. 00:27:11.103 --> 00:27:12.543 And it wasn't always the dog. 00:27:13.523 --> 00:27:15.143 It actually was rarely the dog. 00:27:15.653 --> 00:27:21.413 It was mostly humans who couldn't follow basic, simple rules, like showing 00:27:21.413 --> 00:27:23.253 up to a place at a specific time. 00:27:24.483 --> 00:27:30.383 And the reason it was important is the dogs would arrive between 8 and 9. 00:27:30.383 --> 00:27:30.403 45. 00:27:30.663 --> 00:27:34.203 Well, 45, that's when the dogs would arrive for day school. 00:27:34.743 --> 00:27:39.233 And so they would arrive for day school, and then I wanted, at minimum, a 15 minute 00:27:39.233 --> 00:27:47.078 window to get the group settled before a new dog would be introduced for its, 00:27:47.308 --> 00:27:51.318 you know, process of introduction because the group was settled and balanced. 00:27:51.978 --> 00:27:56.378 I didn't want a frothy, excited, unbalanced group because then the 00:27:56.378 --> 00:27:59.828 new dog would have a bad experience and the new, I wouldn't be able to 00:27:59.828 --> 00:28:01.278 get a good sense of the new dog. 00:28:02.628 --> 00:28:07.748 I could tell as the dog was walking up the sidewalk from the car by how the 00:28:07.748 --> 00:28:11.298 dogs, because I had an open fence and all the dogs would come over and stand 00:28:11.298 --> 00:28:12.758 at the fence, they would come over. 00:28:13.098 --> 00:28:20.938 They would bark, and within about eight seconds They'd stop. 00:28:20.938 --> 00:28:25.698 I mean, the handlers would come over, there would be, have handlers 00:28:25.698 --> 00:28:27.358 in the space managing them. 00:28:27.818 --> 00:28:31.378 But when the dogs didn't settle, it told me everything I needed to know 00:28:31.378 --> 00:28:32.828 about what was walking up the sidewalk. 00:28:32.858 --> 00:28:36.148 Either the human or the dog was imbalanced and I wasn't sure which. 00:28:37.418 --> 00:28:40.078 So I would do things with the dog, with their person there, I'd remove 00:28:40.078 --> 00:28:41.368 the person, I'd work with the dog. 00:28:41.398 --> 00:28:42.608 I'd just spend time with the dog. 00:28:42.628 --> 00:28:44.348 I'd bring a dog in to meet the person. 00:28:44.898 --> 00:28:46.458 I'd bring a dog in to meet the dog. 00:28:46.658 --> 00:28:48.308 And I'd see where the reactivity was. 00:28:48.348 --> 00:28:52.328 And I had someone who showed up 30 minutes. 00:28:53.758 --> 00:28:55.668 late for their scheduled appointment. 00:28:57.428 --> 00:28:59.468 And we had another appointment that was going to be coming. 00:28:59.468 --> 00:29:02.918 And so what we would also do is we'd finish the appointment and I would allow, 00:29:02.948 --> 00:29:09.578 I would enforce at least 30 minutes, ideally an hour, before another dog 00:29:09.578 --> 00:29:13.488 would come because I wanted the dogs to have a chance to decompress and 00:29:13.488 --> 00:29:16.648 all of that and determine which of the dogs needed to be pulled from the group 00:29:16.648 --> 00:29:19.648 for deeper decompression because they had been overstimulated or whatever. 00:29:20.268 --> 00:29:24.328 And she was 30 minutes late and she showed up and I said, hi. 00:29:24.588 --> 00:29:28.018 I said, I'm really sorry, but we're, you know, we're going to need to reschedule. 00:29:28.378 --> 00:29:30.918 I rescheduled my day to be here. 00:29:31.088 --> 00:29:32.198 And she started yelling. 00:29:32.228 --> 00:29:36.818 I said, you know, um, we, here's why I was very, very calm. 00:29:37.438 --> 00:29:38.718 And I explained the situation. 00:29:38.718 --> 00:29:42.448 I said, look, when your dog is here, I want, you know, I want 00:29:42.448 --> 00:29:43.978 your dog to have a good experience. 00:29:44.088 --> 00:29:45.968 This won't be a good experience for your dog. 00:29:46.738 --> 00:29:49.508 And I'm not going to rush it because your dog gets to have the full time. 00:29:51.408 --> 00:29:54.438 And she's like, okay, well, fine. 00:29:54.538 --> 00:29:55.478 You know, I'll reschedule. 00:29:55.478 --> 00:29:56.048 I said, great. 00:29:56.078 --> 00:29:59.598 I said, so, you know, we're going to take the, the assessment payment 00:29:59.798 --> 00:30:01.318 in advance to hold the spot. 00:30:02.158 --> 00:30:04.248 Cause you missed the first, and it's in all of the paperwork. 00:30:04.678 --> 00:30:05.018 And it was 150. 00:30:07.008 --> 00:30:10.688 150 to get your dog evaluated to maybe get into my school. 00:30:11.888 --> 00:30:12.308 Maybe. 00:30:13.268 --> 00:30:17.098 Now, once the dog got in, they got that money right back. 00:30:17.098 --> 00:30:19.248 I'd give them 150 worth of something. 00:30:19.248 --> 00:30:22.398 I'd give them, you know, a free hour of training. 00:30:22.398 --> 00:30:23.358 I'd give them something. 00:30:23.358 --> 00:30:25.088 They immediately got that value back. 00:30:25.088 --> 00:30:30.173 So they weren't really But if they were like, you know, basically it was my PETA, 00:30:30.203 --> 00:30:32.043 my PETA tax, my pain in the ass tax. 00:30:32.063 --> 00:30:32.453 Yeah. 00:30:32.503 --> 00:30:33.003 But I mean, it's 00:30:33.043 --> 00:30:36.323 Anke: also, it kind of makes sure that the people who come there are 00:30:36.323 --> 00:30:37.691 like actually serious about it. 00:30:37.691 --> 00:30:38.143 Cathy: You know? 00:30:38.643 --> 00:30:41.473 The minute I started charging, I didn't charge at first. 00:30:41.553 --> 00:30:44.523 And the minute I started charging, like my, my conversion rate went up 00:30:44.523 --> 00:30:48.803 to about 88 percent and I started turning away about a third of the dogs. 00:30:49.473 --> 00:30:50.493 And that was consistent. 00:30:50.503 --> 00:30:51.863 That was consistent for 10 years. 00:30:51.933 --> 00:30:58.853 I could have made exponentially more money if I had gone volume. 00:31:00.498 --> 00:31:03.248 And I wasn't interested in that. 00:31:03.288 --> 00:31:04.488 I think quality always 00:31:04.558 --> 00:31:07.058 Anke: trumps quantity, right? 00:31:07.338 --> 00:31:09.258 Cathy: Yeah, well, and you can do both. 00:31:09.558 --> 00:31:10.508 You can do both. 00:31:10.508 --> 00:31:11.608 It is possible to do both. 00:31:11.628 --> 00:31:16.008 My facility was physically set up for a specific size. 00:31:16.068 --> 00:31:22.238 I never had more than 40 dogs during a day, which is considered relatively small, 00:31:22.258 --> 00:31:27.508 you know, boarding was about 30, you know, so it was a, you know, I kept that way. 00:31:27.508 --> 00:31:31.108 I didn't have to have as much staff cause we had a one to six ratio, you know, 00:31:31.108 --> 00:31:33.258 for dog to handler or handler, yeah. 00:31:33.328 --> 00:31:34.498 Handler to dog one to six. 00:31:34.828 --> 00:31:39.728 So, um, and sometimes it was more like it could be one to six with three handlers 00:31:39.728 --> 00:31:41.608 if they were all high drive big dogs. 00:31:41.983 --> 00:31:42.233 Right? 00:31:42.233 --> 00:31:44.843 So it really, we really gauged that accordingly. 00:31:45.273 --> 00:31:48.273 And by the way, people are the same way. 00:31:48.313 --> 00:31:51.803 Not all people need the same things. 00:31:52.443 --> 00:31:55.033 And not all people hear things the same way. 00:31:55.033 --> 00:31:58.673 I was talking with a client yesterday and she was relating to me an experience 00:31:58.673 --> 00:32:00.403 of this team that she's working with. 00:32:00.413 --> 00:32:02.763 She's like, I've told them, I've told them, I've told them, and 00:32:02.763 --> 00:32:03.563 they're just not hearing me. 00:32:03.563 --> 00:32:07.373 I said, so what I'm hearing you say is they're not hearing you. 00:32:07.603 --> 00:32:11.133 Because if you're saying the same thing and you're just saying it 00:32:11.323 --> 00:32:16.283 louder, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're hearing it. 00:32:16.283 --> 00:32:19.153 It tells me that they're not engaged with what you're telling them. 00:32:19.193 --> 00:32:20.893 They don't understand why it's important. 00:32:21.683 --> 00:32:22.673 So they're not hearing you. 00:32:23.498 --> 00:32:25.128 So we get to say it to them a different way. 00:32:25.128 --> 00:32:26.568 We get to ask different questions. 00:32:28.038 --> 00:32:30.028 She was like, light bulb went off. 00:32:30.038 --> 00:32:30.598 She said, great. 00:32:30.598 --> 00:32:31.548 So we talked about that. 00:32:31.548 --> 00:32:31.958 I said, great. 00:32:31.958 --> 00:32:33.208 So go do these things. 00:32:34.178 --> 00:32:37.418 And you know, here's, you know, what are some questions that you can ask? 00:32:37.418 --> 00:32:38.998 And she came up with some questions. 00:32:38.998 --> 00:32:39.428 I said, great. 00:32:39.438 --> 00:32:40.138 Those are awesome. 00:32:40.408 --> 00:32:41.438 What else can you ask? 00:32:41.438 --> 00:32:42.618 And she asked, you know, came up with a gun. 00:32:42.618 --> 00:32:43.048 I said, great. 00:32:43.088 --> 00:32:44.428 I said, so go do that. 00:32:45.108 --> 00:32:48.038 Come back to me in a week and let me know if you're still having the 00:32:48.038 --> 00:32:49.918 tone deafness, because at that point. 00:32:51.268 --> 00:32:52.488 There's resistance. 00:32:52.958 --> 00:32:53.878 There's something else going on. 00:32:54.058 --> 00:32:55.448 And then there's something else going on. 00:32:55.458 --> 00:32:57.638 But 9 times out of 10 it's not actually resistance. 00:32:57.638 --> 00:33:00.838 Most of the time people are just like, I'm sorry, what? 00:33:00.838 --> 00:33:01.228 Because 00:33:01.228 --> 00:33:03.758 Anke: it's just not obvious where the relevance is, 00:33:04.358 --> 00:33:04.748 Cathy: right? 00:33:05.268 --> 00:33:10.598 Yeah, I mean, people, most people, most, and like by most, I mean like vast 00:33:10.598 --> 00:33:17.033 majority of people are good, decent, want to do a good job, want to belong 00:33:17.033 --> 00:33:22.123 to a group, want to know that they, you know, belong there, that they fit with 00:33:22.123 --> 00:33:27.453 the group, that they contribute, that they matter, um, that they have a role. 00:33:28.703 --> 00:33:32.263 Most people want to be liked in some capacity. 00:33:32.273 --> 00:33:34.613 It means different, that means different things to different people. 00:33:35.473 --> 00:33:38.968 And that's kind of it at the end of the day. 00:33:39.668 --> 00:33:42.308 Anke: That's why I love it when you think, well, we're the kind of, we 00:33:42.308 --> 00:33:47.258 are different in many ways, you know, between dogs and people, but like, 00:33:47.258 --> 00:33:50.818 boy, there's so many things where we're just the same, where it's actually 00:33:50.818 --> 00:33:52.178 in essence, pretty simple, right? 00:33:53.428 --> 00:33:56.278 Cathy: Well, I mean, look, I mean, it's not a mistake that 56, 000 00:33:56.278 --> 00:34:02.218 years ago, give or take a millennia, the, our species came together. 00:34:02.708 --> 00:34:07.518 And, you know, there's some really fascinating discoveries 00:34:07.528 --> 00:34:09.868 in the last just 15, 20 years. 00:34:10.153 --> 00:34:14.983 that show just how much longer ago, um, you know, it used to be thought 00:34:14.983 --> 00:34:19.363 it was like 000 years ago that dog and man started live together. 00:34:19.373 --> 00:34:22.913 No, it was, you know, it was tens of millennia prior to that. 00:34:23.303 --> 00:34:29.993 And, um, and it was roughly around the time that humans started, 00:34:30.043 --> 00:34:35.193 uh, being able to manipulate fire as well as projectile weapons. 00:34:35.353 --> 00:34:39.533 And so roughly in that timeframe is when our species. 00:34:40.053 --> 00:34:40.843 came together. 00:34:41.053 --> 00:34:43.943 And you know, there's all sorts of lore, like, we kidnapped the 00:34:43.943 --> 00:34:45.663 pups and raised them as our own. 00:34:46.723 --> 00:34:49.573 No, like, there's no data that actually proves that. 00:34:49.573 --> 00:34:53.313 What's, what's more likely is we had killed a large beast with our 00:34:53.313 --> 00:34:56.453 projectile weapons that we had cooked over the flame in the carcass. 00:34:56.843 --> 00:34:58.173 You know, we didn't have Tupperware. 00:34:58.293 --> 00:34:59.423 There was no Tupperware. 00:34:59.653 --> 00:35:02.713 There was no walk in deep freeze, you know, so we just basically 00:35:02.723 --> 00:35:03.873 had the carcass hanging out. 00:35:04.088 --> 00:35:08.008 you know, on the spit where it had been cooked and that the wolves that were 00:35:08.008 --> 00:35:12.308 large enough to have the self confidence, you know, would draw near, um, you know, 00:35:12.378 --> 00:35:16.578 and, and protect, you know, send up a sound when they heard something, giving 00:35:16.578 --> 00:35:18.408 us the chance to protect ourselves. 00:35:18.688 --> 00:35:21.698 We'd literally throw them a bone and look, positive reinforcement. 00:35:21.718 --> 00:35:22.738 Look, see, there you go. 00:35:23.958 --> 00:35:27.073 You know, and, and so yeah, we keep going for ages and ages, 00:35:27.073 --> 00:35:28.398 like days for days, I'm sure. 00:35:28.398 --> 00:35:29.148 I think we, we 00:35:29.148 --> 00:35:31.878 Anke: have another, another conversation in here. 00:35:32.148 --> 00:35:33.018 Cathy: 100%. 00:35:33.018 --> 00:35:34.788 Anke: I think so for now, where, where do we, where can people 00:35:34.788 --> 00:35:36.918 go and find out about, you know, 00:35:37.428 --> 00:35:38.748 Cathy: about me, you, and your 00:35:38.753 --> 00:35:41.028 Anke: work, and where can I get in 00:35:41.028 --> 00:35:41.568 Cathy: touch with you? 00:35:42.208 --> 00:35:46.228 I strive for ubiquity, so if you type Kathy Brooks into. 00:35:46.833 --> 00:35:50.393 A given search engine, the likelihood that the first couple pages are going to 00:35:50.393 --> 00:35:53.833 be me is greater than zero, um, by a lot. 00:35:54.153 --> 00:35:58.563 Um, I'm easily found on LinkedIn, which is the beautiful place where you and 00:35:58.563 --> 00:36:01.803 I got, got a chance to come together. 00:36:02.203 --> 00:36:07.813 Um, I also, you can find me, Kathy Brooks on, on Instagram, Unleashed Leadership. 00:36:08.353 --> 00:36:09.153 LLC. 00:36:09.313 --> 00:36:13.843 The LLC bit is important because someone got to Unleashed Leadership before I did. 00:36:15.413 --> 00:36:18.863 Um, that was my, that was my, that was my scary dog growl. 00:36:19.163 --> 00:36:25.473 Um, but, uh, yeah, so Unleashed Leadership LLC, uh, and I'm actually 00:36:25.483 --> 00:36:28.923 in the process of getting ready to, you know, I do group coaching programs. 00:36:28.943 --> 00:36:30.323 Everything's done virtually. 00:36:30.543 --> 00:36:32.280 I do in person stuff as well. 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:36.093 I'll go in two companies or two people, um, you know, for coaching, 00:36:36.093 --> 00:36:39.843 but my group coaching programs, um, you know, are, are all virtual 00:36:39.843 --> 00:36:41.413 and I'm kicking one off in January. 00:36:41.413 --> 00:36:44.673 So, um, look me up. 00:36:44.733 --> 00:36:45.463 Happy to help. 00:36:45.463 --> 00:36:46.363 Happy to support. 00:36:46.423 --> 00:36:47.283 We can talk dogs. 00:36:47.283 --> 00:36:48.613 We can talk communication. 00:36:49.153 --> 00:36:52.163 Um, we can really talk about anything. 00:36:52.163 --> 00:36:55.333 I can pretty much talk about anything with anyone about, you know, at any time, 00:36:55.533 --> 00:36:57.773 you know, it's kind of a superpower. 00:36:58.323 --> 00:36:58.583 Anke: Awesome. 00:36:58.663 --> 00:36:59.423 Love it. 00:36:59.423 --> 00:37:00.543 Thank you so much. 00:37:00.583 --> 00:37:01.603 Thank you so much for coming. 00:37:01.983 --> 00:37:07.123 And, um, yeah, I look forward to the next installment of this conversation. 00:37:10.538 --> 00:37:11.768 Thanks so much for listening. 00:37:12.288 --> 00:37:16.588 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:37:16.688 --> 00:37:18.468 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:37:19.258 --> 00:37:22.748 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:37:23.178 --> 00:37:28.748 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:37:28.848 --> 00:37:31.218 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:37:31.218 --> 00:37:34.948 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:37:35.368 --> 00:37:36.508 I'd love an introduction. 00:37:36.988 --> 00:37:38.818 Email me at Anke. 00:37:39.088 --> 00:37:43.323 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.