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Welcome back to another episode
of the Startup Therapy podcast.

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This is Ryan Rutan, joined
as always by my friend,

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the founder and CEO of
Startups.com, Will Schroeder.

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Will, founders love to tell
us That they're almost ready.

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And I think you and I would
agree that almost ready is

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where startup dreams go to die.

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The only thing that
makes us ready is

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contact with the market.

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So we'll, let's talk about why
founders think that getting

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more prepared and starting
later feels responsible,

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but I think you and I would
say that's probably just

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fear with nice veneers on.

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It is, and, and what's
interesting to me about

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that is we actually believe
that we can plan- Yeah

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for problems, right?

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Yeah.

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That, that if we just wait long
enough, if we just plan enough,

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right, if we get enough, uh,
of our ducks in a row, so to

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speak- Yes … then we'll be
able to avoid the problems.

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Which, which brings me
to the Mike Tyson quote,

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which only you can deliver.

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If you would indulge me,
on your version of Mike

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Tyson's famous quote.

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Everybody had a plan till
I punched them in the face.

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It was better earlier.

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You're better.

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Oh.

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Honestly, when I did that,
when I did that a few days

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ago in jest- … like, it was
better, but now on, on- Yeah.

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… on, on, on the spot, like,
I feel really bad that I

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did… I'm sorry, Mike.

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Please don't find me and
change my plans or my face.

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Everybody has a plan until they
get punched in the face, which,

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you know, mirrors the quote,
"No plan survives first contact

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with the enemy." It works in
the same way, which is, like,

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all the planning in the world
will not mean jack shit, because

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until you get out there and
start doing this and take real

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lumps with real customers and
product and everything else

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like that, and investors, you
can't plan your way into it.

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Yet, yet, but we believe that's

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not true.

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Yeah, we think so.

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Well- Right?

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… I mean, look, it comes
from an okay place, right?

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I think that in so much of life
we've been told that you have

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to prepare for all these things.

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Everything had a prerequisite
up until this point.

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Then you go to start, right?

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Like, you know, before you
got the job you wanted, you

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had to do the grunt work.

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Before you got to any of
the grades you wanted,

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you had to do… Right?

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Everything had, like, some sort
of a, a starter set that you

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had to complete so that you-
Yeah … could level up into.

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Right.

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But the thing is, in the
startup space, readiness is not

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a prerequisite for starting.

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Readiness- Yeah … is
the result of starting.

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Readiness is what happens-
… sometime after we've started,

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often long after we've
started, and we're like,

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"Okay, I started six years ago.

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Now I'm ready.

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Now we're ready.

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Now it's actually working."

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If I think about really where
you and I both started, you

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know, early in our careers-
Yeah … like, you know, very

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early in our careers, before we
realized that there should've

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been maybe something else we, we
should have considered, right?

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Yeah.

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Like, I found out that I
had started a business after

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I had started a business.

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After you had
started the business.

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Yeah.

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And just, like, to give you
a sense for, for what ends

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up happening, this is like,
I'd just turned 19 years old.

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Like, so like three years ago.

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And so, like, I got into
this thing where, um,

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I'd built some software.

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This is 1993.

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I mean, we are going into a
frigging time machine here.

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Yes, we are.

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Um, I'd just built some
software on this new

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diabolical piece of software
called Microsoft Access.

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Oh.

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Oh.

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On

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floppy disk, right?

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You were- And so- You were
at home programming databases

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Yeah, right?

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I always learned
how relations work

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Just not the human kind.

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Just- Yeah, exactly Just the

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Those do not go together.

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I built the software, and
I built it for the company

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I was working for to be,
to do contact management.

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And this is going back so
far that before we had the

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c- this contact management
software that, that I was

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building, they were just files.

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We just had- Yeah

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manila folders with, you know,
people's information on them.

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Every time you called
somebody, you just wrote

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it on the call sheet.

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Anyway, so I build this
software, and, and I

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roll it out, you know,
within our company.

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And then one day, I get
a call from one of the

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companies we were partnered
with, and the, the CEO calls

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me and says, "Hey, can we
get some of that software?"

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And I was like, "I could
sell it to you." Yeah.

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A- and he was like, "Well,
fine. Yeah, just, like,

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name your price." And guess,
Ryan, this was my price.

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This was 1993 going into 1994.

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My price to license my software

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$1500.

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Oh.

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All of it at once?

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That was the all in- Was that,
was that payable over time?

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Was there a layaway option?

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Oh, oh yeah.

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Yeah,

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uh, it was, like, you'd
have to understand where I

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was in life at that point.

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I was making $5 per hour.

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Yeah.

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So $1500- Yeah … was
like a billion dollars.

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Yeah.

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And, and I'm 100% sure, uh,
when I told that CEO what

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the price was, he didn't
understand the pricing.

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Like- Yeah … he
was like, "For what?"

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Yeah.

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Right?

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For, for, per seat?

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Per year?

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Per what?

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What do we mean?

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Like, like, and he still didn't
understand- Yeah … that I

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was actually gonna give him all
the software and install it,

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'cause everything was custom.

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And install,

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yeah.

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Probably maintain it, teach
people how to use it, you know?

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Okay, s- right.

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So all of a sudden I realize
that someone's willing to

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pay me to sell them software.

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Yes.

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And I was like, "I wonder
if more people would be

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willing to pay me." Yep.

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And so that kind of is how I
fell into becoming a founder.

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See, I didn't, I didn't know
I was gonna become a founder.

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No.

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It wasn't like, "I'm gonna go
build software, and then I'll

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find somebody that needs it,
and then I'll sell it to them,

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and then I'll be a found-" no.

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It was just like, eh,
you just did a thing.

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Yeah.

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You started something,
and it turned into

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something else, right?

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Which is how it
always works anyways.

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We just don't usually
see it that clearly.

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I'm gonna give you
another example that's

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way more ridiculous, okay?

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And absolutely irresponsible,
but I'm gonna tie

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these two together.

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Okay.

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Years ago, on Christmas Eve
of all time, uh, Sarah, my

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wife, and I were down in, uh,
in The Bahamas, and I'd always

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wanted to go scuba diving.

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She was terrified of the water,
like, of doing that, so she

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was like, "I'll sit on the boat
and get a tan- Yeah … while

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you figure that out." I'll live

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while you go do that.

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So g- this is how
bad it is, right?

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They take us out on the boat,
and there's, like, these

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three just dudes, right?

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That are explaining us to
the, the group of us there,

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like, how scuba diving works.

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Yeah.

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And maybe the worst explanation
you can possibly imagine.

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And, uh, the only thing I
remember that they even said

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was that if you get in trouble,
tap your, uh, your tank.

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Uh-huh.

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And that's how, you know,
it'll make a sound, and

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that, that's how people will
know you have a problem.

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That way we know to head

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back to shore really fast
before the authorities show up.

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Yes.

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We'll know the last
time we saw you.

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And so I jump in with my
instructor, and they do the

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first thing where you submerge,
and then you're trying to

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pressurize and whatever.

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Yeah.

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And I get it wrong, of course
my head explodes, right?

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I get back up to the top,
you know, I re-pressurize,

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I go down again.

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Well, the next time, time
I go down again, I'm fine.

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And I just stayed down
there for 45 minutes.

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Yep.

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With no training whatsoever.

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Right.

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Right?

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I just swam to the bottom
of the ocean, and just…

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It was amazing, actually, right?

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Now I say that to say, if
you had said, "Will, the

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only way that you can scuba
dive is that you have to go

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through all this training,
you have to be in the pool-

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Yeah … and everything else,"
which you should, by the way.

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I just wanna Yeah.

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I wanna be clear.

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If I thought the whole time
that I would never be able to

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do it unless I went, unless
I waited and planned and

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did all these things- Yeah

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I would've believed
that that's true.

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There is another version, which
I don't recommend to anyone,

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where I could also just jump in-
Yeah … swim to the bottom of

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the ocean, and figure it out.

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That version is told
by a Will who's not

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here to tell that story

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today, I think.

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That's my twin brother, Phil.

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That's the reason you're
not telling that story.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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The reason I tell this story is
I think people believe that they

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can learn to swim by reading
and planning about swimming.

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Yeah, of course.

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Sometimes you just
gotta jump in, right?

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You gotta

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get your feet wet, yeah.

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Correct, right?

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There's no, no version of,
of swimming is, it happens

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on, on dry land, right?

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And there's a lot
that you can do.

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And by the way, this
isn't life and death, like

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submerging yourself in water.

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There's a lot that you can
do that you don't realize,

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and this is where I wanna
tie it back together.

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When I was 19 years old, and
you were damn near, you know,

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you were college age too when
you were getting started- Yep

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I didn't know that there
was something to plan for.

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There wasn't.

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Literally, I, in the same
way like I just answered

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a question, right?

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You built a little software to
scratch your own itch, right,

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at the time when you were
working with that company.

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I've told this story before.

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I was walking in the halls
at OSU, and a previous

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upperclassman from a couple
grades ahead of me at my, at

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my high school bumped into me.

251
00:07:49,652 --> 00:07:51,641
And he's like, "Hey." And
then just like, we had a

252
00:07:51,702 --> 00:07:52,232
two-minute conversation.

253
00:07:52,232 --> 00:07:55,272
He goes, "Wait, you know
computers, right?" Do you

254
00:07:55,272 --> 00:07:56,862
remember when people used
to ask that, when that was

255
00:07:56,862 --> 00:07:57,522
actually a legitimate question?

256
00:07:57,522 --> 00:07:58,072
My grandmother

257
00:07:58,242 --> 00:08:01,312
t- till, till her last day
was like, "Will does something

258
00:08:01,312 --> 00:08:02,352
in computers." In computers.

259
00:08:02,352 --> 00:08:03,072
Like, thanks Grandma.

260
00:08:03,312 --> 00:08:05,022
You know computers, right?

261
00:08:05,032 --> 00:08:08,182
And I said- Yep … "Yes."
He's like, "Great.

262
00:08:08,252 --> 00:08:09,992
We need a website.

263
00:08:10,051 --> 00:08:14,802
Can you make us one?" I said,
"Sure." And then I went to,

264
00:08:14,832 --> 00:08:17,832
you'll appreciate this, Will,
I went to Micro Center and

265
00:08:17,842 --> 00:08:20,012
bought probably Frommer's
HTML or something, right?

266
00:08:20,012 --> 00:08:21,362
Like, I, I don't remember
which one it was.

267
00:08:21,362 --> 00:08:21,422
Uh-huh.

268
00:08:21,422 --> 00:08:22,712
But I bought
O'Reilly's somebody.

269
00:08:22,992 --> 00:08:25,922
Bought an HTML book and,
like, that weekend I figured

270
00:08:25,922 --> 00:08:27,842
out how to code a site, and
by that following Thursday

271
00:08:27,842 --> 00:08:28,582
I had built their website.

272
00:08:28,582 --> 00:08:30,611
But there wasn't like, I
wasn't like, "Okay, let

273
00:08:30,612 --> 00:08:33,122
me go get ready." And, and
look, I, yes, I read a book,

274
00:08:33,132 --> 00:08:34,972
but the book was just to
know how to do the thing.

275
00:08:34,972 --> 00:08:36,782
It wasn't, I wasn't sitting
around prevaricating going,

276
00:08:37,152 --> 00:08:39,162
"I wonder if this is really
the right time to launch

277
00:08:39,162 --> 00:08:40,302
a web design agency."

278
00:08:40,332 --> 00:08:41,642
Number one, I'd never
heard of such a thing,

279
00:08:41,642 --> 00:08:43,681
because I had never heard
of such a thing, right?

280
00:08:44,482 --> 00:08:47,192
Uh, fun fact, I got a text
message from Micro Center not

281
00:08:47,192 --> 00:08:49,962
two hours ago about the Memorial
Day sale that's still going on.

282
00:08:50,202 --> 00:08:53,292
And for all you nerds in the
audience, some of you know

283
00:08:53,292 --> 00:08:55,352
Micro Center because they've
got a regional presence in

284
00:08:55,352 --> 00:08:58,872
places, but Micro Center is
the old school, still exists

285
00:08:58,872 --> 00:09:02,632
version of independently owned
computer store, where you go in

286
00:09:02,632 --> 00:09:05,952
there and the people there are
very much the kind of people

287
00:09:05,952 --> 00:09:07,542
you would, it's the people
that would've been working at

288
00:09:07,542 --> 00:09:08,692
RadioShack back in the day.

289
00:09:08,972 --> 00:09:11,032
Ryan, whenever I get to
go there, and I get to go

290
00:09:11,032 --> 00:09:12,612
there, like, once a year
because I need something

291
00:09:12,612 --> 00:09:15,472
very specific, I'm like, I
have so many warm memories.

292
00:09:15,472 --> 00:09:18,022
And the best part about
this, every time I check

293
00:09:18,042 --> 00:09:20,852
out and I give them my phone
number, they always ask you,

294
00:09:20,971 --> 00:09:24,121
"Are you still at 171 West
Maynard Avenue on campus?"

295
00:09:24,491 --> 00:09:26,532
I'm like, "Yes,
I am." Yes, I am.

296
00:09:26,582 --> 00:09:26,902
Yes, I am.

297
00:09:26,912 --> 00:09:29,472
Um- 40 years later … besides,
it's been a while.

298
00:09:29,662 --> 00:09:32,951
But anyway, I think what's
interesting about that is if

299
00:09:32,952 --> 00:09:36,144
someone had told you- Here's
what you need to do before

300
00:09:36,144 --> 00:09:37,853
you're allowed to do this,"
you would believe them. I

301
00:09:37,853 --> 00:09:40,444
would've. And I think we tell
ourselves that, "I need to get

302
00:09:40,444 --> 00:09:41,704
all these, these ducks in a row.

303
00:09:41,704 --> 00:09:42,133
I need to w- Yeah.

304
00:09:42,493 --> 00:09:43,733
What about, what
about your branding?

305
00:09:43,743 --> 00:09:45,434
Have you thought about how
much time this is gonna take?

306
00:09:45,444 --> 00:09:47,164
You know, have you, have you,
have you- Right … launched

307
00:09:47,164 --> 00:09:48,524
your… Do you have a,
a charter of accounts?

308
00:09:48,524 --> 00:09:50,394
Have you… Are you
gonna go LLC or S corp?

309
00:09:50,394 --> 00:09:50,834
What are you gonna do?

310
00:09:50,843 --> 00:09:50,873
Yep.

311
00:09:50,883 --> 00:09:52,863
Like, all of these things that
could've gotten in the way,

312
00:09:53,223 --> 00:09:55,373
and some of those th- become
necessary at some point, sure,

313
00:09:55,723 --> 00:09:58,074
once you figure out if any of
this works at any level, right?

314
00:09:58,274 --> 00:10:00,304
Had I gone and done all of
that stuff and then figured

315
00:10:00,304 --> 00:10:03,144
out I actually couldn't code a
website, that would've been kind

316
00:10:03,144 --> 00:10:04,383
of a waste of time, wouldn't it?

317
00:10:04,633 --> 00:10:06,773
I mean, but you figured out…
Tha- and I think that's the

318
00:10:06,774 --> 00:10:07,784
part that folks are missing.

319
00:10:07,784 --> 00:10:11,284
So I, I think part of what
concerns me when people say, "Is

320
00:10:11,293 --> 00:10:12,554
now the right time to start?"

321
00:10:12,564 --> 00:10:14,284
We get aw- asked an
awful lot about this.

322
00:10:14,304 --> 00:10:14,704
Yes.

323
00:10:14,794 --> 00:10:17,214
My answer is always,
"No, you're wrong."

324
00:10:17,534 --> 00:10:17,824
Mm-hmm.

325
00:10:17,834 --> 00:10:20,243
The right time should've start-
would mean you already started.

326
00:10:20,373 --> 00:10:20,544
Yeah.

327
00:10:20,544 --> 00:10:22,983
If you're asking the question,
you're already too late.

328
00:10:23,133 --> 00:10:23,203
Yeah.

329
00:10:23,204 --> 00:10:24,733
That doesn't mean you can't
get started tomorrow, but

330
00:10:24,733 --> 00:10:25,553
that's sort of the point.

331
00:10:25,833 --> 00:10:28,333
But I think, like, waiting
is basically stalling, right?

332
00:10:28,363 --> 00:10:30,914
I think that- Yeah … when
people are, are trying to plan

333
00:10:31,223 --> 00:10:33,113
for what, you know, what could
happen and like, "Oh, you know,

334
00:10:33,113 --> 00:10:35,253
we just wanna have this perfect,
you know, plan to get started,"

335
00:10:35,894 --> 00:10:38,414
it's a massive step backward.

336
00:10:38,564 --> 00:10:40,574
I don't think people
understand the cost of

337
00:10:40,574 --> 00:10:41,743
waiting in this game.

338
00:10:42,274 --> 00:10:44,664
I don't think so either, and
as we were talking about this,

339
00:10:44,683 --> 00:10:46,923
I was starting to realize
there's more of a cost to

340
00:10:46,924 --> 00:10:49,184
it than I had even maybe
previously associated, which

341
00:10:49,184 --> 00:10:52,473
is that, like, every day lost
is a day lost or whatever.

342
00:10:52,483 --> 00:10:54,723
Y- yes, but it's not just that,
and it's like, yeah, if, you

343
00:10:54,723 --> 00:10:57,064
know, starting today is better
than starting tomorrow, yes,

344
00:10:57,363 --> 00:11:00,343
but, like, each day that you
don't start is, is not just

345
00:11:00,373 --> 00:11:03,093
you didn't start, it's the loss
of everything that would've

346
00:11:03,093 --> 00:11:04,904
happened in that period.

347
00:11:04,914 --> 00:11:04,934
Yeah.

348
00:11:05,304 --> 00:11:07,873
So there's actually this
negative compounding

349
00:11:07,873 --> 00:11:11,124
effect for the, the longer
that you wait, and- Yeah

350
00:11:11,124 --> 00:11:13,574
and you've got plenty of reasons
and excuses and all this stuff.

351
00:11:14,194 --> 00:11:16,973
Planning is great, and, and you
should plan a little, right?

352
00:11:16,973 --> 00:11:19,613
Like, I planned to go get a
book, and then I planned to

353
00:11:19,613 --> 00:11:22,053
build a test site, and then I
planned to build their site.

354
00:11:22,054 --> 00:11:24,514
That was okay, but, but
planning in that case was

355
00:11:24,524 --> 00:11:28,093
valuable because those plans
specifically led to action.

356
00:11:28,414 --> 00:11:29,934
If plans don't lead to
action- Right … it's

357
00:11:29,934 --> 00:11:31,253
just theater, right?

358
00:11:31,284 --> 00:11:32,554
And, and we don't need that.

359
00:11:32,554 --> 00:11:32,774
Yeah.

360
00:11:32,774 --> 00:11:33,613
We just don't need that.

361
00:11:33,904 --> 00:11:36,973
We do teach a lot of planning
at startups.com, right?

362
00:11:36,973 --> 00:11:36,983
Sure.

363
00:11:36,983 --> 00:11:39,103
Just to be clear, like, you
know, we teach people h-

364
00:11:39,113 --> 00:11:40,353
doing o- idea validation.

365
00:11:40,353 --> 00:11:42,154
We teach them, you know, how
to- Yes … uh, plan to go do

366
00:11:42,154 --> 00:11:44,414
a capital raise, et cetera, but
that's a little bit different.

367
00:11:44,624 --> 00:11:46,144
That's the act of doing.

368
00:11:46,273 --> 00:11:46,513
Yes.

369
00:11:46,534 --> 00:11:46,843
Right?

370
00:11:47,093 --> 00:11:47,773
While planning.

371
00:11:47,794 --> 00:11:47,904
Yes.

372
00:11:47,904 --> 00:11:51,954
It is, I'm building websites for
clients while I'm figuring out

373
00:11:51,954 --> 00:11:54,704
what it means to build an agency
to build websites for clients.

374
00:11:54,704 --> 00:11:54,894
Yes.

375
00:11:54,894 --> 00:11:55,093
Right?

376
00:11:55,093 --> 00:11:58,293
Like, I'm learning by doing,
and that's the part that

377
00:11:58,293 --> 00:12:01,074
I don't, I don't think
folks fully appreciate

378
00:12:01,324 --> 00:12:02,934
in this particular job.

379
00:12:02,934 --> 00:12:04,843
I think a lot of people
are like, "Hey, for every

380
00:12:04,843 --> 00:12:07,513
other job, you have to get
education, degree, whatever

381
00:12:07,523 --> 00:12:10,644
in order- Right … to go
do it." This isn't that job.

382
00:12:10,654 --> 00:12:12,114
There isn't a parallel.

383
00:12:12,284 --> 00:12:16,074
There isn't a parallel where
you have to wait and learn

384
00:12:16,084 --> 00:12:18,034
and prepare to do this job.

385
00:12:18,702 --> 00:12:22,502
You prepare to do this job
by doing this job Right.

386
00:12:23,002 --> 00:12:23,482
It's very specific.

387
00:12:23,672 --> 00:12:25,812
Let me draw a line here,
'cause I, I think there's

388
00:12:25,822 --> 00:12:26,772
an important thing here.

389
00:12:26,801 --> 00:12:28,362
Uh, you said, you said
something great there, which

390
00:12:28,362 --> 00:12:30,232
is, like, around, like,
we're, we're getting people

391
00:12:30,232 --> 00:12:31,812
to do stuff, and we're,
we're having people planning.

392
00:12:31,892 --> 00:12:34,111
I wanna draw a line here,
though, because there's still,

393
00:12:34,112 --> 00:12:37,701
like, you can still stall
and look and feel productive

394
00:12:38,061 --> 00:12:39,942
because there are documents,
there are meetings, there are

395
00:12:39,942 --> 00:12:41,362
research, there's strategy.

396
00:12:42,162 --> 00:12:44,542
But nothing is being tested.

397
00:12:44,812 --> 00:12:46,291
Nothing is being tested.

398
00:12:46,292 --> 00:12:48,742
Stuff is being done, but
nothing's being tested,

399
00:12:48,742 --> 00:12:50,081
nothing's being proven, right?

400
00:12:50,082 --> 00:12:52,302
I think- Right … actually
starting something, but I

401
00:12:52,302 --> 00:12:54,582
mean, like, getting in front
of customers, talking to the

402
00:12:54,582 --> 00:12:56,562
actual people you wanna sell
to, talking to people you

403
00:12:56,562 --> 00:12:57,522
wanna solve the problems for.

404
00:12:57,852 --> 00:13:00,902
That type of launch
forces response.

405
00:13:01,332 --> 00:13:01,502
Right.

406
00:13:01,502 --> 00:13:03,852
Response starts to create
learning, and learning is where

407
00:13:03,852 --> 00:13:05,172
the actual progress comes in.

408
00:13:05,242 --> 00:13:08,622
So I think that we can be doing,
even… So even if you have a,

409
00:13:08,642 --> 00:13:10,942
an action bias and you're like,
"Oh, no, no, I'm not stalling

410
00:13:10,942 --> 00:13:13,722
at all. I am doing so many
things right now." Okay, cool.

411
00:13:13,832 --> 00:13:14,712
What have you learned?

412
00:13:14,962 --> 00:13:16,002
"Well, I learned how
to put together a

413
00:13:16,002 --> 00:13:17,532
chart of accounts." No.

414
00:13:17,772 --> 00:13:20,852
That's cool if what you wanna
become is an accountant.

415
00:13:21,152 --> 00:13:23,302
Not cool- … if what you wanted
to become was a founder, right?

416
00:13:23,392 --> 00:13:25,942
Again, like, it has a place,
but it's not what we're trying

417
00:13:25,942 --> 00:13:27,152
to, to force function here.

418
00:13:27,291 --> 00:13:29,881
I also wanna point out, and
I don't think folks really

419
00:13:29,921 --> 00:13:33,842
appreciate this, there is
a massive cost to waiting.

420
00:13:34,192 --> 00:13:36,362
I think folks think, "Well,
if I wait, that's okay

421
00:13:36,362 --> 00:13:38,752
because I'm building up
this other resource." That

422
00:13:38,752 --> 00:13:42,781
resource is education, network
connections, capital, et cetera.

423
00:13:43,102 --> 00:13:46,471
And all of that sounds like it
would make sense, but what you

424
00:13:46,472 --> 00:13:50,782
don't understand is w- the time
you're taking to do that has a

425
00:13:50,782 --> 00:13:54,862
direct cost- Yes … to the time
you're not getting shit done.

426
00:13:55,082 --> 00:13:57,841
Here's the one thing that
I didn't appreciate early

427
00:13:57,841 --> 00:13:59,862
in my career, 'cause I
just hadn't seen it yet.

428
00:14:00,252 --> 00:14:03,302
I didn't understand how
important it was, going

429
00:14:03,312 --> 00:14:05,662
back to your Mike Tyson,
to get punched in the face,

430
00:14:05,731 --> 00:14:09,021
meaning, like, like, to fail,
until I actually did it.

431
00:14:09,032 --> 00:14:09,932
So I'll give you an example.

432
00:14:10,412 --> 00:14:12,652
Early in my career, I'll
never forget this, and this

433
00:14:12,652 --> 00:14:14,392
is a character you know
that, that we've worked

434
00:14:14,392 --> 00:14:15,132
with for a long time.

435
00:14:15,432 --> 00:14:17,922
Uh, early in my career, I
go and I'm pitching one of

436
00:14:17,922 --> 00:14:19,091
our first clients, right?

437
00:14:19,202 --> 00:14:19,351
Mm-hmm.

438
00:14:19,482 --> 00:14:21,182
It was Harrison House,
if, if you remember, like,

439
00:14:21,182 --> 00:14:22,132
like, ba- back in the day.

440
00:14:22,322 --> 00:14:23,241
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

441
00:14:23,241 --> 00:14:26,052
And so anyway, I'm pitching
the client, and they need a

442
00:14:26,052 --> 00:14:27,142
website and all these things.

443
00:14:27,252 --> 00:14:29,212
One of my good friends, uh,
you know, g- guy you know

444
00:14:29,212 --> 00:14:31,952
well from college, uh, is
standing there right with me.

445
00:14:32,382 --> 00:14:35,012
And as I'm giving the pitch, the
client is, "Well, can, can you

446
00:14:35,012 --> 00:14:36,642
do an e-commerce site?" Right?

447
00:14:37,011 --> 00:14:39,422
And I was like, "Absolutely."
And as I was saying

448
00:14:39,422 --> 00:14:41,451
that- … almost, like, on
cue like a Seinfeld episode,

449
00:14:41,602 --> 00:14:42,771
he's like, "Absolutely not."

450
00:14:45,582 --> 00:14:48,772
And I looked at him and
I was like… And he

451
00:14:48,772 --> 00:14:49,502
was just being honest.

452
00:14:49,652 --> 00:14:51,042
He was like, "Well,
yeah, no, we've actually

453
00:14:51,042 --> 00:14:51,882
never done that before."

454
00:14:52,122 --> 00:14:52,282
Yeah.

455
00:14:52,352 --> 00:14:52,712
Right?

456
00:14:53,262 --> 00:14:55,152
And I was like, "Bro." Yeah.

457
00:14:55,332 --> 00:14:57,202
And I remember walking out
of the meeting and being

458
00:14:57,202 --> 00:14:59,782
like, "You don't get speaking
lines anymore." Yeah, yeah.

459
00:14:59,782 --> 00:15:01,422
Like, "You're not allowed
to talk in meetings."

460
00:15:01,621 --> 00:15:02,562
And he's like, "What?

461
00:15:02,562 --> 00:15:04,012
What did I say?" Like-
"You have mime makeup

462
00:15:04,012 --> 00:15:04,352
at home?

463
00:15:04,352 --> 00:15:05,622
Because you're wearing it
the next few-" Yeah, exactly.

464
00:15:05,622 --> 00:15:05,662
I was

465
00:15:06,522 --> 00:15:08,562
like… It was so like…
He was like, "What did I

466
00:15:08,562 --> 00:15:11,832
do?" I was like, "You're
not allowed to say no-

467
00:15:12,082 --> 00:15:12,302
Yeah.

468
00:15:12,302 --> 00:15:16,111
"… 
to a client." And I remember
he was so blown away by that.

469
00:15:16,112 --> 00:15:18,042
But here's, here's why
it was a lesson for me.

470
00:15:18,301 --> 00:15:20,681
I learned that lesson
when he said no.

471
00:15:21,051 --> 00:15:21,371
Yeah.

472
00:15:21,432 --> 00:15:21,872
Right?

473
00:15:21,971 --> 00:15:22,121
Yeah.

474
00:15:22,121 --> 00:15:23,932
It never occurred
to me to say no.

475
00:15:24,172 --> 00:15:24,342
Yeah.

476
00:15:24,342 --> 00:15:26,702
And I didn't realize
how important it was

477
00:15:26,722 --> 00:15:28,102
to know that- Yes

478
00:15:28,112 --> 00:15:29,932
until I watched someone do
it- Someone do it … like

479
00:15:29,932 --> 00:15:30,762
a crash test dummy.

480
00:15:30,931 --> 00:15:30,951
Yeah.

481
00:15:31,062 --> 00:15:34,292
And then I was like, "Jesus, I
need to never do what that guy

482
00:15:34,352 --> 00:15:37,332
just did." And I watched the
look on the client's face, the

483
00:15:37,341 --> 00:15:40,151
sense of like disappointment
and almost shock- Uh-huh.

484
00:15:40,162 --> 00:15:41,902
Yeah … that he
was being so honest.

485
00:15:41,962 --> 00:15:42,222
Yes.

486
00:15:42,252 --> 00:15:44,032
Now, we would end up
getting that account, and

487
00:15:44,032 --> 00:15:46,022
we would end up building
exactly what they needed.

488
00:15:46,022 --> 00:15:46,362
E-commerce.

489
00:15:46,362 --> 00:15:46,882
We just figured it out.

490
00:15:46,892 --> 00:15:46,922
Yes.

491
00:15:47,582 --> 00:15:51,402
But had I not been out there
getting that experience, like

492
00:15:51,402 --> 00:15:53,982
being able to see it firsthand,
in this case again kind of at

493
00:15:53,982 --> 00:15:57,521
his expense, I would've never
learned that lesson, right?

494
00:15:57,662 --> 00:16:00,811
Which wound up paying
massive dividends-

495
00:16:01,091 --> 00:16:01,421
Yes

496
00:16:01,441 --> 00:16:05,172
… 
throughout my career- Yep … in
learning how to deal with, "Hey,

497
00:16:05,172 --> 00:16:07,062
we don't have that capability."

498
00:16:07,261 --> 00:16:07,281
Yeah.

499
00:16:07,372 --> 00:16:09,822
"But it doesn't mean we
couldn't." You know, something

500
00:16:09,822 --> 00:16:12,761
that's really funny about
everything we talk about here

501
00:16:13,202 --> 00:16:15,202
is that none of it is new.

502
00:16:15,432 --> 00:16:17,972
Everything you're dealing
with right now has been done a

503
00:16:18,112 --> 00:16:21,822
thousand times before you, which
means the answer already exists.

504
00:16:21,832 --> 00:16:23,742
You may just not know
it, but that's okay.

505
00:16:24,072 --> 00:16:25,902
That's kind of what
we're here to do.

506
00:16:25,922 --> 00:16:28,562
We talk about this stuff on
the show, but we actually

507
00:16:28,562 --> 00:16:32,602
solve these problems all day
long at groups.startups.com.

508
00:16:32,762 --> 00:16:36,012
So if any of this sounds
familiar, stop guessing

509
00:16:36,082 --> 00:16:37,052
about what to do.

510
00:16:37,302 --> 00:16:39,972
Let us just give you the
answers to the test and be

511
00:16:39,972 --> 00:16:40,452
done with it.

512
00:16:40,892 --> 00:16:41,921
Stick with us for just a second.

513
00:16:41,971 --> 00:16:43,432
Let's play this out
in a different way.

514
00:16:43,761 --> 00:16:47,671
Now imagine instead of just
being in that conversation with

515
00:16:47,672 --> 00:16:50,722
this mutual friend of ours,
imagine you were sitting back

516
00:16:50,722 --> 00:16:53,432
at the office whiteboarding,
going, "All right, so how should

517
00:16:53,432 --> 00:16:54,612
we handle client communications?

518
00:16:54,642 --> 00:16:55,342
What should we say?

519
00:16:55,342 --> 00:16:55,852
What shouldn't we?

520
00:16:55,852 --> 00:16:57,031
Let's make up some
rules around- Yep

521
00:16:57,042 --> 00:16:58,212
how we handle stuff."
Yep, yep, yep, yep.

522
00:16:58,412 --> 00:16:59,702
Will you ever get this right?

523
00:16:59,712 --> 00:17:00,031
No.

524
00:17:00,031 --> 00:17:04,512
You learn more from one ugly
customer interaction than from

525
00:17:04,692 --> 00:17:07,212
50- Like 40 years … internal
strategy sessions, right?

526
00:17:07,252 --> 00:17:07,892
Every single time.

527
00:17:07,892 --> 00:17:08,382
Actually, stick with that

528
00:17:08,881 --> 00:17:10,412
'
cause, 'cause I, I think
we can pull a lot more out

529
00:17:10,412 --> 00:17:11,551
of, out of that example.

530
00:17:11,862 --> 00:17:14,551
Had we been in the whiteboard
session and we were to

531
00:17:14,551 --> 00:17:16,732
say, "Hey, should we offer
e-commerce to clients?"

532
00:17:16,962 --> 00:17:17,081
Yeah.

533
00:17:17,362 --> 00:17:18,952
Our friend would've
vehemently been like,

534
00:17:18,952 --> 00:17:20,121
"No, we can't do it." No.

535
00:17:20,121 --> 00:17:20,521
Yeah, we can't.

536
00:17:20,521 --> 00:17:22,322
"It, we should never bring it
up- Yeah. "… because a client

537
00:17:22,322 --> 00:17:23,632
will never go for it." Right?

538
00:17:23,632 --> 00:17:25,212
Now, now stick with this
for a second because I

539
00:17:25,232 --> 00:17:26,202
think this is fascinating.

540
00:17:26,492 --> 00:17:29,192
He would genuinely believe,
and have full reason to

541
00:17:29,192 --> 00:17:32,432
believe, that no client would
say yes and that we could

542
00:17:32,432 --> 00:17:33,682
not provide that service.

543
00:17:33,772 --> 00:17:33,962
Yeah.

544
00:17:33,982 --> 00:17:37,831
And if we limited the scope
of our experience to the

545
00:17:37,831 --> 00:17:40,764
scope of that room- The
answer would've been no.

546
00:17:41,154 --> 00:17:42,394
The answer would've
been no, right?

547
00:17:42,414 --> 00:17:46,484
Like very, very vehemently
as I said, right?

548
00:17:46,494 --> 00:17:46,524
Yes.

549
00:17:46,524 --> 00:17:47,904
And, and I couldn't
argue otherwise.

550
00:17:48,484 --> 00:17:52,203
Until you just go do it, until
you just go out there and you

551
00:17:52,203 --> 00:17:54,644
say to the client, "Hey, yeah,
we can absolutely do it,"

552
00:17:54,894 --> 00:17:55,954
and the client goes, "Cool."

553
00:17:56,473 --> 00:17:59,323
And all the planning you
would've held out for, right?

554
00:17:59,323 --> 00:17:59,373
Yes.

555
00:17:59,373 --> 00:18:01,534
This, we'll have to go higher
for this and build that

556
00:18:01,574 --> 00:18:04,524
expertise, et cetera, just
went out the frigging door

557
00:18:04,524 --> 00:18:06,274
because you said one word: sure.

558
00:18:07,453 --> 00:18:08,173
Like- Yep … that was

559
00:18:08,174 --> 00:18:08,494
it.

560
00:18:08,663 --> 00:18:09,023
Oops.

561
00:18:09,234 --> 00:18:09,514
Yeah.

562
00:18:09,594 --> 00:18:10,074
It's amazing.

563
00:18:10,104 --> 00:18:12,314
This is the cost
of inaction, right?

564
00:18:12,363 --> 00:18:12,609
Yeah, the cost of inaction.

565
00:18:12,609 --> 00:18:15,664
Or this is the cost of, of
planning versus doing, right?

566
00:18:15,684 --> 00:18:18,354
Like- Right … have you,
have I, have any founders

567
00:18:18,404 --> 00:18:22,884
ever discovered anything about
their capacity by preparing?

568
00:18:23,134 --> 00:18:24,964
Or did we discover-
Nope … it all by being

569
00:18:24,964 --> 00:18:26,674
forced to perform, right?

570
00:18:26,934 --> 00:18:30,514
I never learned that I was
capable of something I didn't

571
00:18:30,524 --> 00:18:33,394
think I was capable of while
I was sitting around wondering

572
00:18:33,394 --> 00:18:34,631
if I was capable of it, right?

573
00:18:34,631 --> 00:18:34,798
Yep.

574
00:18:34,798 --> 00:18:34,966
Yep.

575
00:18:34,966 --> 00:18:37,344
It happened when I was out
there going, "Shit, I probably

576
00:18:37,344 --> 00:18:39,854
can't catch that guy, but
it's, you know, minute 89,

577
00:18:39,864 --> 00:18:42,283
I'm gonna try. I'm gonna run
him down." And I did, right?

578
00:18:42,354 --> 00:18:42,384
Yep.

579
00:18:42,444 --> 00:18:44,924
Sometimes I didn't, and
that's okay, but, like, if

580
00:18:44,924 --> 00:18:47,114
I had just thought about it,
guess what would've happened?

581
00:18:47,203 --> 00:18:48,663
I certainly wouldn't
have caught the guy.

582
00:18:48,943 --> 00:18:51,733
This past weekend, uh, I had
a contractor out at, you know,

583
00:18:51,733 --> 00:18:52,494
the new house that I'm building.

584
00:18:52,844 --> 00:18:53,544
Wait, new house?

585
00:18:54,412 --> 00:18:55,312
You just gave me PTSD.

586
00:18:55,312 --> 00:18:57,362
You mean the old house that
you've been building, right?

587
00:18:57,972 --> 00:18:59,242
That's, that's a
frigging vintage.

588
00:18:59,242 --> 00:18:59,422
Yeah.

589
00:18:59,702 --> 00:19:03,131
Um, and as we're walking
around it, I'm explaining to

590
00:19:03,132 --> 00:19:04,802
him all the different systems
of the house, and I've given

591
00:19:04,802 --> 00:19:05,702
you this tour a million times.

592
00:19:05,762 --> 00:19:07,112
Like, you know, I'm like,
"Hey, this is how the

593
00:19:07,112 --> 00:19:09,351
electrical systems work and
the geothermal systems work,

594
00:19:09,352 --> 00:19:11,291
and, you know, this is h-
how I architected this and

595
00:19:11,291 --> 00:19:11,981
whatever." I can give this

596
00:19:12,001 --> 00:19:12,291
tour.

597
00:19:12,792 --> 00:19:12,982
Right.

598
00:19:12,992 --> 00:19:13,622
Yeah, exactly.

599
00:19:14,002 --> 00:19:16,982
And so at some point he, he
says to me, he's like, "How did

600
00:19:16,982 --> 00:19:18,482
you learn all of this?" Uh-huh.

601
00:19:18,552 --> 00:19:18,782
Right?

602
00:19:19,202 --> 00:19:21,022
Uh, like, "How did you learn
how to do the electrical

603
00:19:21,022 --> 00:19:24,431
system or lay out geothermal or
build cabinetry or whatever?"

604
00:19:24,431 --> 00:19:24,471
Yeah.

605
00:19:24,471 --> 00:19:26,252
I was like, "It's easy. I
just did it." See the burn

606
00:19:26,252 --> 00:19:26,932
on this hand?

607
00:19:26,941 --> 00:19:27,981
You see the cut
over here, right?

608
00:19:29,322 --> 00:19:30,511
And I wasn't being flippant.

609
00:19:30,521 --> 00:19:33,822
I was like- No … the reason I
know how all of this stuff works

610
00:19:33,912 --> 00:19:35,532
is because I actually did it.

611
00:19:35,692 --> 00:19:37,802
I didn't say to myself,
"Oh, well, I can't possibly

612
00:19:37,802 --> 00:19:40,712
design an electrical system
for a full house, right?

613
00:19:40,712 --> 00:19:42,321
So I guess I just
can't do it." Uh-huh.

614
00:19:42,321 --> 00:19:44,151
I'm like, "Of course
I can do it." Yeah.

615
00:19:44,162 --> 00:19:46,012
Now, doesn't mean I know how to.

616
00:19:46,302 --> 00:19:46,572
Right.

617
00:19:46,572 --> 00:19:47,192
But I can learn.

618
00:19:47,462 --> 00:19:49,162
It's the same way I feel
about entrepreneurship.

619
00:19:49,462 --> 00:19:52,702
The reason I know how to do so
many aspects of this founder

620
00:19:52,702 --> 00:19:54,362
world is 'cause I just did them.

621
00:19:54,382 --> 00:19:54,812
Do them.

622
00:19:54,932 --> 00:19:55,302
Yeah.

623
00:19:55,502 --> 00:19:55,702
Right?

624
00:19:55,702 --> 00:19:58,772
I- if you were to zoom out
and you were to take a look at

625
00:19:58,802 --> 00:20:04,492
our depth of expertise across
so many disciplines- Yeah

626
00:20:04,761 --> 00:20:04,941
right?

627
00:20:04,941 --> 00:20:05,202
Yeah.

628
00:20:05,202 --> 00:20:07,262
So I- I'm gonna take it across
the spectrum, and just so folks

629
00:20:07,262 --> 00:20:08,932
understand, you know, that
are thinking about getting

630
00:20:08,932 --> 00:20:11,932
into this, first understand
how deep our expertise

631
00:20:11,932 --> 00:20:12,912
is across so many things.

632
00:20:12,912 --> 00:20:16,081
So we have expertise,
like actual usable market

633
00:20:16,081 --> 00:20:21,912
expertise, in marketing,
in finance, in fundraising,

634
00:20:22,012 --> 00:20:26,862
in product development, in
engineering, in sales, in

635
00:20:26,862 --> 00:20:27,852
like all of these things.

636
00:20:27,852 --> 00:20:31,762
We've done these, like
professionally at like a, a- Yes

637
00:20:31,772 --> 00:20:33,441
… pretty significant level, right?

638
00:20:33,992 --> 00:20:36,252
Now, you might look at that
and say, "Well, yeah, but

639
00:20:36,262 --> 00:20:39,201
how did you learn all of
those?" I took zero classes,

640
00:20:39,222 --> 00:20:41,052
and I'm pretty much sure
you're in the same boat.

641
00:20:41,271 --> 00:20:41,551
Yeah.

642
00:20:41,662 --> 00:20:43,082
Well, I took a couple classes.

643
00:20:43,082 --> 00:20:44,722
I'm not sure they aligned
with anything I actually

644
00:20:44,722 --> 00:20:45,222
learned, but yeah.

645
00:20:45,262 --> 00:20:47,402
You know, the best classes
I took, the one class that I

646
00:20:47,412 --> 00:20:51,266
took that was game changing
for me- was Econ 101.

647
00:20:51,446 --> 00:20:51,776
Yeah.

648
00:20:52,086 --> 00:20:52,656
Great class.

649
00:20:52,756 --> 00:20:55,106
I'll never forget, when I
got into econ, and I say

650
00:20:55,106 --> 00:20:56,956
this because I, I'm saying,
like, it's, it's amazing

651
00:20:56,956 --> 00:20:59,276
at how sometimes there's
just an unlock moment.

652
00:20:59,426 --> 00:21:00,066
Yeah, yeah.

653
00:21:00,066 --> 00:21:01,616
You just start to see
something in a way you

654
00:21:01,616 --> 00:21:02,326
didn't see it before.

655
00:21:02,326 --> 00:21:03,556
You go, "Oh, okay.
Yes." I just saw the

656
00:21:03,556 --> 00:21:04,076
Matrix.

657
00:21:04,206 --> 00:21:07,446
Like, I got this Econ
101, this dry, awful book.

658
00:21:08,036 --> 00:21:10,386
And I remember reading about
supply and demand for the first

659
00:21:10,396 --> 00:21:13,746
time, and I remember, uh, do you
remember the concept of utility?

660
00:21:14,026 --> 00:21:14,346
Oh, yes.

661
00:21:14,346 --> 00:21:16,686
Like, the amount of value,
like- Yep … like, goes down

662
00:21:16,786 --> 00:21:18,196
as you have more of it, right?

663
00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:19,326
The amount of utility you get.

664
00:21:19,695 --> 00:21:21,726
And the example they
always use is, is a pizza.

665
00:21:22,146 --> 00:21:22,326
Yep.

666
00:21:22,386 --> 00:21:25,486
The first p- slice of pizza
has maximum utility, and then

667
00:21:25,486 --> 00:21:28,166
the value of each additional
slice goes down exponentially.

668
00:21:28,616 --> 00:21:29,586
Um, and- Until the next

669
00:21:29,586 --> 00:21:31,776
morning, and then you find-
I was gonna say- … that

670
00:21:31,776 --> 00:21:32,876
last leftover slice, the
utility on that one's pretty

671
00:21:32,876 --> 00:21:33,816
damn high, to be honest

672
00:21:33,816 --> 00:21:33,976
the way I

673
00:21:33,976 --> 00:21:34,775
feel about vodka.

674
00:21:35,066 --> 00:21:39,646
And so anyway, point is it
was one of those things where

675
00:21:39,926 --> 00:21:43,525
that education, like that
unlock, it was, felt more like

676
00:21:43,525 --> 00:21:47,506
a gateway, made me go, "Wait
a minute, so, like, the market

677
00:21:47,536 --> 00:21:50,006
has a lot of demand and not
enough supply?" And it sounds

678
00:21:50,016 --> 00:21:51,366
stupid when I'm saying it now.

679
00:21:51,686 --> 00:21:51,826
Yeah.

680
00:21:52,036 --> 00:21:53,716
But 18-year-old Will- Uh-huh

681
00:21:54,086 --> 00:21:55,345
his head was exploding.

682
00:21:55,516 --> 00:21:55,736
Yeah.

683
00:21:55,736 --> 00:21:58,255
I was like, "Wait, so I
could, like, supply more

684
00:21:58,256 --> 00:22:00,395
stuff and people will give
me money for it," right?

685
00:22:00,396 --> 00:22:00,476
Yeah.

686
00:22:00,476 --> 00:22:01,266
And I was like,

687
00:22:01,665 --> 00:22:03,346
"
Done." My dreams
have all come true.

688
00:22:03,866 --> 00:22:04,396
Right, right.

689
00:22:04,396 --> 00:22:07,486
And so, but what was interesting
was that I was a theater major.

690
00:22:07,616 --> 00:22:09,766
I clearly had, like, I did
not go to school, like,

691
00:22:09,766 --> 00:22:10,966
as a, as a business major.

692
00:22:11,026 --> 00:22:11,046
Yeah.

693
00:22:11,046 --> 00:22:12,696
How'd you- Like, I thought I
was gonna go make movies or

694
00:22:12,696 --> 00:22:13,965
something, which would've been
really cool … turn the wrong

695
00:22:13,976 --> 00:22:14,916
way on campus one day?

696
00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:15,945
How'd you end up
in an econ class?

697
00:22:15,945 --> 00:22:16,045
Yeah,

698
00:22:16,076 --> 00:22:16,746
exactly, right?

699
00:22:16,775 --> 00:22:20,145
And so anyway, my point is I
think we have this idea that

700
00:22:20,146 --> 00:22:23,196
there's this schooling, like,
all this prep that gets into it.

701
00:22:23,406 --> 00:22:23,426
Yeah.

702
00:22:23,856 --> 00:22:27,446
But the reason that you and I
have such a significant amount

703
00:22:27,446 --> 00:22:31,506
of practicing domain knowledge
in completely different

704
00:22:31,506 --> 00:22:34,576
careers- Yes … right, is
because we actually did them.

705
00:22:34,936 --> 00:22:37,496
We didn't say, "Oh, well,
I'm, I'm marketing, guys,

706
00:22:37,505 --> 00:22:39,786
so I guess I couldn't
possibly code anything."

707
00:22:39,986 --> 00:22:40,566
Yeah, yep.

708
00:22:40,596 --> 00:22:40,836
Right?

709
00:22:41,216 --> 00:22:42,776
Like- Could- don't need to
understand finance at all

710
00:22:42,776 --> 00:22:44,186
because numbers, you know?

711
00:22:44,226 --> 00:22:44,526
Like…

712
00:22:44,646 --> 00:22:45,216
Right, right.

713
00:22:45,216 --> 00:22:45,256
Yeah.

714
00:22:45,256 --> 00:22:48,255
Like, what fascinates me,
and this is really what I,

715
00:22:48,296 --> 00:22:52,226
what I wanna dig in on for a
second, is how extensible we

716
00:22:52,226 --> 00:22:56,065
are as humans, push ourselves
or allow ourselves to be.

717
00:22:56,406 --> 00:22:56,596
Okay?

718
00:22:56,596 --> 00:22:58,726
So let me, let me, let me build
on that a little bit more.

719
00:22:59,036 --> 00:23:02,826
So imagine here I am
19-year-old Will, and at

720
00:23:02,826 --> 00:23:05,446
that time I have no skills
whatsoever, or so I think.

721
00:23:05,586 --> 00:23:06,725
I don't have any learned skills.

722
00:23:06,726 --> 00:23:09,156
My market rate was
$5 an hour, right?

723
00:23:09,156 --> 00:23:12,536
So it's not the market was
rewarding me for anything.

724
00:23:12,806 --> 00:23:17,016
But it turned out that there
was a ton of stuff that I was

725
00:23:17,016 --> 00:23:19,172
good at- But I hadn't tried.

726
00:23:19,182 --> 00:23:19,202
Yeah.

727
00:23:19,462 --> 00:23:21,162
I- this always fascinates
me, by the way, 'cause

728
00:23:21,162 --> 00:23:25,202
I'm like, what if I am a
world-class concert pianist,

729
00:23:25,462 --> 00:23:27,642
but I've never been given
the opportunity to find out?

730
00:23:28,441 --> 00:23:28,661
Yeah.

731
00:23:28,661 --> 00:23:31,441
Like, like, don't you find
it's kind of convenient

732
00:23:31,662 --> 00:23:33,491
that the people that go
on to become, like, these,

733
00:23:33,521 --> 00:23:35,972
these world-class whatever-
Yeah … often are groomed

734
00:23:35,972 --> 00:23:38,612
from families that did- Yes
… specifically that, right?

735
00:23:38,612 --> 00:23:38,622
Yeah.

736
00:23:38,622 --> 00:23:39,682
Like, come on, right?

737
00:23:39,712 --> 00:23:41,652
Like- As if they have the
corner on the market for

738
00:23:41,652 --> 00:23:42,902
growing pianists, right?

739
00:23:42,902 --> 00:23:42,992
Like, come on.

740
00:23:42,992 --> 00:23:43,752
Yeah, that's what I'm saying,

741
00:23:43,752 --> 00:23:43,962
right?

742
00:23:43,992 --> 00:23:46,282
Don't you find that, like,
a, a little bit coincidental?

743
00:23:46,282 --> 00:23:46,691
Definitely.

744
00:23:46,792 --> 00:23:50,272
Which, which implies that that
resident experience and talent

745
00:23:50,481 --> 00:23:53,962
can exist in any of us if we
allow ourselves to unlock it.

746
00:23:53,962 --> 00:23:58,331
So fast-forward five, six
years later, and now I'm

747
00:23:58,331 --> 00:23:59,752
running a pretty large company.

748
00:23:59,972 --> 00:24:00,162
Yeah.

749
00:24:00,162 --> 00:24:00,452
Right?

750
00:24:00,532 --> 00:24:03,282
And I remember thinking to
myself, "How did this happen?"

751
00:24:03,781 --> 00:24:03,901
Yeah.

752
00:24:04,022 --> 00:24:04,242
Right?

753
00:24:04,242 --> 00:24:07,942
I mean, like, like how was it
that with no training, with no

754
00:24:07,942 --> 00:24:12,142
experience, with no anything, I
was able to excel at this level?

755
00:24:12,142 --> 00:24:14,552
And here's the answer:
because I just did it.

756
00:24:14,812 --> 00:24:15,302
You did it.

757
00:24:15,302 --> 00:24:15,522
Yeah.

758
00:24:15,522 --> 00:24:15,752
Right?

759
00:24:15,872 --> 00:24:19,172
And that sounds trite, but
that actually is the answer.

760
00:24:19,252 --> 00:24:22,122
Like, the reason I was able to,
to be a CEO and all these things

761
00:24:22,122 --> 00:24:25,402
at a young age is 'cause I was
willing to just do it and not

762
00:24:25,402 --> 00:24:26,312
sit around thinking about it.

763
00:24:26,312 --> 00:24:26,721
You know what I mean?

764
00:24:26,981 --> 00:24:27,321
Yeah.

765
00:24:27,452 --> 00:24:29,801
There was this quote, and I,
and look, I am always careful

766
00:24:29,812 --> 00:24:32,272
with these things because
they can be misleading.

767
00:24:32,402 --> 00:24:33,402
Are you gonna do it in a voice?

768
00:24:33,482 --> 00:24:34,642
I wasn't going to.

769
00:24:34,642 --> 00:24:35,482
Now maybe I shall.

770
00:24:35,612 --> 00:24:36,402
Let me think about it.

771
00:24:37,012 --> 00:24:38,101
I'm not gonna
remember it exactly.

772
00:24:38,101 --> 00:24:40,712
It was essentially the, the
world stands aside for they

773
00:24:40,712 --> 00:24:41,822
who know where they're going.

774
00:24:42,262 --> 00:24:44,702
But as founders, we don't always
necessarily know where we're

775
00:24:44,702 --> 00:24:47,882
going, but more importantly,
the world stands aside when

776
00:24:47,882 --> 00:24:49,376
people start going, right?

777
00:24:49,376 --> 00:24:50,172
When you start moving.

778
00:24:50,212 --> 00:24:50,452
Yep.

779
00:24:50,452 --> 00:24:50,601
Yep.

780
00:24:50,601 --> 00:24:53,022
When you start moving, people
start to get out of the way.

781
00:24:53,032 --> 00:24:54,132
Things start to
congeal around you.

782
00:24:54,152 --> 00:24:55,072
Things start to happen.

783
00:24:55,081 --> 00:24:57,992
Things start to mold to what
you're trying to make happen,

784
00:24:58,342 --> 00:25:00,262
as opposed to when you're just
sitting still, just thinking,

785
00:25:00,262 --> 00:25:04,401
just planning, lots is changing,
but nothing is changing around

786
00:25:04,412 --> 00:25:06,721
you necessarily, and I think
that's, that's really important.

787
00:25:06,941 --> 00:25:08,862
A- and I wanna back up for
a second 'cause I love this,

788
00:25:08,892 --> 00:25:12,762
this last d- part of the
discussion around this massive

789
00:25:12,762 --> 00:25:15,081
amount of domain expertise
we have, and it is true, and

790
00:25:15,081 --> 00:25:17,621
I like, I, it's crazy to get
into a group of founders.

791
00:25:17,622 --> 00:25:20,052
Like, get seven or eight
founders in a room and,

792
00:25:20,052 --> 00:25:22,852
like, I dare you to find
something that nobody's done

793
00:25:22,852 --> 00:25:24,681
or hasn't tried or doesn't
understand something about.

794
00:25:24,681 --> 00:25:26,062
You can have a conversation
about damn near anything

795
00:25:26,062 --> 00:25:27,962
you want at a pretty-
Right … high level.

796
00:25:28,782 --> 00:25:31,702
But I think it's important
for us to go, but it wasn't

797
00:25:31,702 --> 00:25:33,212
always like that, and it
certainly wasn't like that

798
00:25:33,212 --> 00:25:34,192
when we started, right?

799
00:25:34,212 --> 00:25:35,542
And I think that's the
important part here.

800
00:25:35,562 --> 00:25:39,052
The reason that that is true
isn't because we're a bunch of

801
00:25:39,072 --> 00:25:41,282
know-it-all polymaths, right?

802
00:25:41,312 --> 00:25:45,061
It was because we didn't know
stuff, but we didn't let that

803
00:25:45,071 --> 00:25:48,641
stop us, and by not stopping,
now we know stuff, right?

804
00:25:48,641 --> 00:25:48,682
Yep.

805
00:25:48,722 --> 00:25:52,131
So the knowing stuff is the
by-product of the doing.

806
00:25:52,502 --> 00:25:54,812
It isn't that we were able to do
because we knew a bunch of shit.

807
00:25:54,932 --> 00:25:56,651
We didn't… I knew
shit when I started.

808
00:25:56,671 --> 00:25:58,432
I knew jack shit when I started.

809
00:25:58,442 --> 00:25:58,462
L-

810
00:25:58,512 --> 00:25:59,871
let's unpack that some more.

811
00:26:00,111 --> 00:26:00,351
Yeah.

812
00:26:00,351 --> 00:26:03,131
Because the only way
to learn is to fail.

813
00:26:03,262 --> 00:26:03,292
Yes.

814
00:26:03,432 --> 00:26:06,542
And planning is typically
trying to avoid failure,

815
00:26:06,542 --> 00:26:07,552
which sounds wonderful.

816
00:26:07,782 --> 00:26:08,182
Isn't that funny?

817
00:26:08,192 --> 00:26:08,992
It sounds wonderful, right?

818
00:26:09,042 --> 00:26:09,492
It does.

819
00:26:09,522 --> 00:26:12,022
It doesn't work- Yeah … but
it sounds wonderful, right?

820
00:26:12,022 --> 00:26:12,072
Yeah.

821
00:26:12,072 --> 00:26:14,042
It sounds like something
you would want to do

822
00:26:14,292 --> 00:26:15,262
and you'd want to avoid.

823
00:26:15,262 --> 00:26:17,982
Now, we spend time, you and
I, planning all the time.

824
00:26:17,992 --> 00:26:18,022
Yes.

825
00:26:18,062 --> 00:26:18,922
But here's the difference.

826
00:26:19,302 --> 00:26:21,841
We plan with failure
as part of the method.

827
00:26:21,911 --> 00:26:22,211
Yes.

828
00:26:22,472 --> 00:26:24,772
We launch a landing page
series, and we're like,

829
00:26:24,772 --> 00:26:26,492
there's no version we're like,
"Oh, my God. We got to plan

830
00:26:26,492 --> 00:26:27,341
to make sure it's perfect."

831
00:26:27,621 --> 00:26:27,871
Uh-huh.

832
00:26:27,891 --> 00:26:28,952
We do our best.

833
00:26:29,062 --> 00:26:29,252
Yep.

834
00:26:29,262 --> 00:26:29,722
Right?

835
00:26:29,812 --> 00:26:32,162
But we know that it's
going to fail, but

836
00:26:32,162 --> 00:26:33,422
we're okay with it- Yep

837
00:26:33,432 --> 00:26:37,042
because, um, we'd prefer it
didn't, but we understand when

838
00:26:37,042 --> 00:26:39,101
it does, that helps direct

839
00:26:39,101 --> 00:26:39,772
us, okay?

840
00:26:39,792 --> 00:26:41,552
Now we know what to do.

841
00:26:41,552 --> 00:26:43,922
Before that, it's purely
a theoretical exercise.

842
00:26:44,081 --> 00:26:44,322
Correct.

843
00:26:44,361 --> 00:26:46,822
If I'm sitting around, you and I
can beat up a landing page path.

844
00:26:47,312 --> 00:26:47,462
Yep.

845
00:26:47,472 --> 00:26:49,281
We can beat it up, and we can
go, okay, as much sense as we

846
00:26:49,282 --> 00:26:51,091
can make out of it right now,
and luckily, we get to that

847
00:26:51,091 --> 00:26:51,962
pretty quickly at this point.

848
00:26:51,962 --> 00:26:53,452
But you can spend lots-
Yep … of time doing that.

849
00:26:53,841 --> 00:26:55,951
The reality is it's
all theoretical.

850
00:26:56,032 --> 00:26:57,932
It is all theoretical
up until that point,

851
00:26:57,932 --> 00:26:59,041
until you release it.

852
00:26:59,742 --> 00:27:02,272
Then once you start to see
where it fails, now you

853
00:27:02,272 --> 00:27:04,601
know exactly what to fix.

854
00:27:04,601 --> 00:27:04,641
Right, right.

855
00:27:05,042 --> 00:27:07,232
It's like building a
sandcastle at the beach, right?

856
00:27:07,391 --> 00:27:09,141
You don't know which part of
the wall to reinforce until the

857
00:27:09,141 --> 00:27:10,871
waves start to crash, and then
you're like, "Okay, we got to…

858
00:27:11,001 --> 00:27:11,871
More sand here, Jack.

859
00:27:11,871 --> 00:27:12,851
More sand there, Hannah," right?

860
00:27:13,211 --> 00:27:15,581
You have to start to plug
the holes, but you can't see

861
00:27:15,581 --> 00:27:16,962
the holes during planning.

862
00:27:16,972 --> 00:27:19,702
The holes appear during
actual market action.

863
00:27:19,841 --> 00:27:23,192
I would also argue that
planning is a weak way to learn.

864
00:27:23,331 --> 00:27:25,722
And now, this isn't an-
Yeah … anti-planning ra- rant.

865
00:27:25,742 --> 00:27:26,561
Or anti-learning,

866
00:27:26,682 --> 00:27:26,942
yeah.

867
00:27:27,032 --> 00:27:27,902
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

868
00:27:28,001 --> 00:27:30,561
This is more about you
can't plan your way

869
00:27:30,562 --> 00:27:31,712
into the launch, right?

870
00:27:31,712 --> 00:27:31,831
No.

871
00:27:31,841 --> 00:27:33,072
Yes, by all means,
do some planning.

872
00:27:33,411 --> 00:27:37,331
But when you're not launching,
every day that goes by where

873
00:27:37,331 --> 00:27:41,138
you are not in the market-
Learning from failure.

874
00:27:41,268 --> 00:27:43,048
And that failure comes
in so many forms.

875
00:27:43,068 --> 00:27:45,078
It's comes in how, how
the market reacts to your

876
00:27:45,078 --> 00:27:47,408
product, how investors
react to your pitch- Yeah

877
00:27:47,578 --> 00:27:50,088
how staff reacts to your
shitty leadership style.

878
00:27:50,098 --> 00:27:50,208
Yeah.

879
00:27:50,518 --> 00:27:50,698
Right?

880
00:27:50,708 --> 00:27:52,598
Like, all of these
things, right?

881
00:27:52,628 --> 00:27:52,818
Yep.

882
00:27:52,857 --> 00:27:55,098
These are all the
things you need.

883
00:27:55,658 --> 00:27:58,258
These aren't the things
that you're trying to avoid.

884
00:27:58,528 --> 00:27:58,728
No.

885
00:27:58,778 --> 00:28:00,758
Now, of course, like, you,
it'd be great if you just

886
00:28:00,758 --> 00:28:03,028
built the perfect product
and ev- investor said yes

887
00:28:03,028 --> 00:28:05,548
and everybody that works with
you loves you, but that's

888
00:28:05,548 --> 00:28:06,878
just not the way this works.

889
00:28:07,128 --> 00:28:10,618
And frankly, the only way
you get to the point where

890
00:28:10,618 --> 00:28:13,908
those things start to
click is by failure, right?

891
00:28:13,908 --> 00:28:13,918
Yeah.

892
00:28:13,918 --> 00:28:18,098
And people hate that, because
we are fundamentally conditioned

893
00:28:18,688 --> 00:28:20,488
to avoid failure, right?

894
00:28:20,528 --> 00:28:24,028
Like, you have to get an A on
the test the first time- Yeah

895
00:28:24,038 --> 00:28:25,598
… or you don't get the grade.

896
00:28:25,878 --> 00:28:26,198
Right.

897
00:28:26,208 --> 00:28:29,517
See, if we took tests, like, you
know, if we were grown up, if

898
00:28:29,517 --> 00:28:32,058
you will, through the academic
system the way you're supposed

899
00:28:32,058 --> 00:28:34,748
to be grown up as a founder,
we wouldn't study at all.

900
00:28:35,138 --> 00:28:35,338
Nope.

901
00:28:35,338 --> 00:28:37,268
You would take the test,
you would fail miserably,

902
00:28:37,428 --> 00:28:39,488
you would learn from what
grades you didn't get right,

903
00:28:39,568 --> 00:28:40,498
and you'd take it again.

904
00:28:40,558 --> 00:28:40,768
Yeah.

905
00:28:40,768 --> 00:28:42,938
And you'd fail miserably
again, and you'd keep taking

906
00:28:42,938 --> 00:28:44,198
it until you understood.

907
00:28:44,428 --> 00:28:47,118
Boy, that certainly sound
dangerously like fairly accurate

908
00:28:47,118 --> 00:28:48,918
and useful educational reform.

909
00:28:48,918 --> 00:28:49,128
Well…

910
00:28:49,718 --> 00:28:50,278
Yeah, I, I know.

911
00:28:50,287 --> 00:28:50,697
Imagine that.

912
00:28:51,588 --> 00:28:52,578
Let's stay away from that.

913
00:28:52,918 --> 00:28:57,008
The idea is because you only
get one shot at it, your

914
00:28:57,018 --> 00:28:59,968
studying and your preparation-
Yeah … are the ke- the

915
00:28:59,968 --> 00:29:01,268
essential ingredient, right?

916
00:29:01,268 --> 00:29:01,357
Yeah,

917
00:29:01,357 --> 00:29:01,627
yeah.

918
00:29:01,718 --> 00:29:03,397
But startups don't
work that way.

919
00:29:03,448 --> 00:29:03,958
No, they don't.

920
00:29:04,008 --> 00:29:06,758
It's also a case where you don't
know what the right answer is.

921
00:29:06,767 --> 00:29:07,918
You can't study for it.

922
00:29:08,018 --> 00:29:10,748
Dude, the failure is… It's
so hard, 'cause we watch

923
00:29:10,758 --> 00:29:11,528
founders do this all the time.

924
00:29:11,528 --> 00:29:12,518
They try to avoid failure.

925
00:29:12,518 --> 00:29:13,068
They pause.

926
00:29:13,098 --> 00:29:14,538
They're like, "We're gonna…
more, one more feature, one

927
00:29:14,538 --> 00:29:15,878
more twist, one more that,
one more whatever." Yep.

928
00:29:16,268 --> 00:29:19,478
And you and I are sitting there
going, avoiding failure is

929
00:29:19,488 --> 00:29:22,468
literally trying to avoid the
very mechanism that creates the

930
00:29:22,468 --> 00:29:24,127
answer to this question, right?

931
00:29:24,168 --> 00:29:26,068
This is where the
answer comes from.

932
00:29:26,088 --> 00:29:28,358
And I think, man, the, the
more time goes by, the more

933
00:29:28,358 --> 00:29:29,438
I, I, I see it clearly.

934
00:29:29,548 --> 00:29:32,898
Like, the founders who we
see doing the best, that

935
00:29:32,898 --> 00:29:35,388
is a subjective thing, but
the ones that we see moving

936
00:29:35,388 --> 00:29:37,798
fastest, moving smoothest,
like, just actually getting

937
00:29:37,798 --> 00:29:41,067
stuff done, building great
businesses, aren't the ones

938
00:29:41,067 --> 00:29:42,388
who are failing less at all.

939
00:29:42,397 --> 00:29:45,742
They're the ones
who are metabolizing

940
00:29:45,812 --> 00:29:47,672
failure faster, right?

941
00:29:47,682 --> 00:29:47,702
Yeah.

942
00:29:47,712 --> 00:29:50,331
They are able to
just go out, repeat.

943
00:29:50,922 --> 00:29:53,682
I'm looking at more as, like,
fault tolerance than failure.

944
00:29:53,972 --> 00:29:56,191
Failure is pretty specific,
and it means that it didn't

945
00:29:56,192 --> 00:29:57,391
work at all in a lot of cases.

946
00:29:57,402 --> 00:29:59,682
Sometimes that is true, but more
often what we're dealing with

947
00:29:59,682 --> 00:30:01,191
is just fault tolerance, right?

948
00:30:01,192 --> 00:30:03,982
Which is like, okay, that didn't
do as much of what we want it to

949
00:30:03,982 --> 00:30:06,702
do, or that didn't work as fast
as we wanted, we didn't make

950
00:30:06,702 --> 00:30:09,942
as much money, or that didn't
solve the problem in the way

951
00:30:09,942 --> 00:30:11,122
that the- the- the user wanted.

952
00:30:11,391 --> 00:30:13,732
Most of the time it's not
truly failure, it's just,

953
00:30:14,021 --> 00:30:16,232
it's not adequately reaching
the mark that we want it

954
00:30:16,232 --> 00:30:18,411
to, which I guess could
be couched as failure.

955
00:30:18,412 --> 00:30:19,662
But I don't know.

956
00:30:19,671 --> 00:30:21,561
I'm trying to put a nicer spin
on it so people not to feel

957
00:30:21,572 --> 00:30:24,312
like they have to fail, because
apparently there is resistance

958
00:30:24,312 --> 00:30:26,312
to failure, so I'm just trying
to take that off the table.

959
00:30:26,612 --> 00:30:29,982
Think of how many aspects of
our lives where, that have

960
00:30:30,002 --> 00:30:32,552
conditioned us to avoid failure.

961
00:30:32,622 --> 00:30:34,201
For example, again-
Pretty much all

962
00:30:39,581 --> 00:30:39,771
the rest of them … we'll
go back to academics, right?

963
00:30:39,771 --> 00:30:39,791
E- exactly.

964
00:30:39,791 --> 00:30:39,891
Academics are not conditioned
around try as many times as

965
00:30:39,891 --> 00:30:41,162
you can in different versions.

966
00:30:41,172 --> 00:30:41,192
Yeah.

967
00:30:41,312 --> 00:30:44,022
And only by trying will
you get an A, right?

968
00:30:44,022 --> 00:30:46,392
In o- in other words, only by
experimenting will you get an

969
00:30:46,392 --> 00:30:49,611
A. Like, in this case it's no,
if you remember this specific

970
00:30:49,612 --> 00:30:52,931
answer and you recite it at
this specific time, you win.

971
00:30:52,942 --> 00:30:52,962
Yeah.

972
00:30:53,042 --> 00:30:53,842
It's just that simple.

973
00:30:53,842 --> 00:30:56,441
And if, if you follow that
formula, you win every time.

974
00:30:56,972 --> 00:30:58,281
This doesn't have that formula.

975
00:30:58,952 --> 00:30:59,092
Right.

976
00:30:59,102 --> 00:31:00,212
Or let's take it to a job.

977
00:31:00,402 --> 00:31:01,782
You go get employed for a job.

978
00:31:02,222 --> 00:31:05,621
There's no version where they're
like, "Hey, junior doctor, just

979
00:31:05,622 --> 00:31:06,831
experiment around a little.

980
00:31:06,842 --> 00:31:07,752
Cut some stuff up.

981
00:31:07,752 --> 00:31:10,242
See, see who dies, see who
lives, and like, you know, kind

982
00:31:10,242 --> 00:31:11,192
of see if you can figure out

983
00:31:12,372 --> 00:31:13,592
who should stay and
who should get cut."

984
00:31:13,592 --> 00:31:13,642
That is sort of how

985
00:31:13,642 --> 00:31:13,682
medicine started, but yes.

986
00:31:13,682 --> 00:31:14,062
Yeah, well, yeah.

987
00:31:15,012 --> 00:31:16,242
It's how medicine's
still running.

988
00:31:16,532 --> 00:31:19,942
As kids, when we're, we're
growing up with parents, it's

989
00:31:20,172 --> 00:31:22,552
the moment you do something
wrong, it's slap on the hand,

990
00:31:22,552 --> 00:31:25,172
you know, metaphorically,
and you're just constantly,

991
00:31:25,172 --> 00:31:28,012
like, gun-shy about doing
something wrong- Yeah, yeah

992
00:31:28,502 --> 00:31:31,521
because you're constantly
penalized for doing anything

993
00:31:31,521 --> 00:31:34,870
but what's right And then all
of a sudden, for the first

994
00:31:34,879 --> 00:31:38,800
time, someone's like, "None of
what you learn, none of your

995
00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:42,560
construct applies here," and
you just don't believe it.

996
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,959
You're like, "Wait, I can
just do whatever I want at

997
00:31:44,959 --> 00:31:47,320
my own pace, and if it goes
wrong, I'll learn more?"

998
00:31:47,669 --> 00:31:48,159
Yes.

999
00:31:48,220 --> 00:31:48,710
Yes.

1000
00:31:48,749 --> 00:31:50,599
Okay, that makes no
sense whatsoever, right?

1001
00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:52,959
Yes, because everything
you've learned- Yeah … has

1002
00:31:52,959 --> 00:31:55,429
been pointed toward a
different construct, and

1003
00:31:55,429 --> 00:31:56,070
here's the difference.

1004
00:31:56,450 --> 00:31:59,620
Up until now, everything that
you've tried to do, whether it

1005
00:31:59,649 --> 00:32:02,120
was grow up as a human, whether
it was get a job, whether it

1006
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,629
was go through academia, et
cetera, had a right answer.

1007
00:32:05,050 --> 00:32:06,479
This does not have
a right answer.

1008
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,009
The right answer has to be
discovered through failure.

1009
00:32:09,439 --> 00:32:12,169
You have to make enough bad
product decisions to find

1010
00:32:12,169 --> 00:32:13,110
out what the good one is.

1011
00:32:13,300 --> 00:32:15,939
You have to make enough bad
investor pitches to find out

1012
00:32:15,939 --> 00:32:17,110
what the right, uh, model is.

1013
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:20,050
You have to hire enough
of the wrong people- Yep

1014
00:32:20,050 --> 00:32:22,199
to find out who the
right people are.

1015
00:32:22,340 --> 00:32:22,370
Yep.

1016
00:32:22,490 --> 00:32:22,760
Right?

1017
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,100
Like, it would be so cool if
you could just go through life

1018
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:29,449
and only make good decisions
because you planned so well.

1019
00:32:29,570 --> 00:32:31,990
The way you know that your
spouse is the right one

1020
00:32:31,990 --> 00:32:34,370
for you is because you
had so many shitty spouses

1021
00:32:35,129 --> 00:32:38,159
or partners before that,
and you're like, "Damn."

1022
00:32:38,499 --> 00:32:39,449
One last anecdote.

1023
00:32:39,730 --> 00:32:42,490
I had three girlfriends before
my wife, not at the same time.

1024
00:32:42,770 --> 00:32:44,220
And in each case, right,
like- Good distinction.

1025
00:32:44,220 --> 00:32:45,010
Good distinction … I
had long-term girlfriends.

1026
00:32:45,970 --> 00:32:47,320
Yeah, yeah.

1027
00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:49,280
Like, they went okay.

1028
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,940
I'm like a pretty easygoing
guy, but like, but there

1029
00:32:51,940 --> 00:32:52,860
was always some issue.

1030
00:32:53,230 --> 00:32:56,570
And so I always assumed that
in a relationship, you just

1031
00:32:56,570 --> 00:32:57,720
argue all the time, right?

1032
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,540
I just assume, like, people
get shitty and, like,

1033
00:32:59,550 --> 00:33:00,710
snippy or whatever, right?

1034
00:33:01,060 --> 00:33:03,619
So in my mind, because
that's the only experience

1035
00:33:03,639 --> 00:33:05,790
I had, I assume that's
how relationships work.

1036
00:33:06,508 --> 00:33:09,228
And then I met my wife,
and we don't ever argue.

1037
00:33:09,368 --> 00:33:09,668
Uh-huh.

1038
00:33:09,758 --> 00:33:11,158
Like, it doesn't
even occur to me.

1039
00:33:11,158 --> 00:33:14,028
Like, if my wife said something
crass to me, not like in a

1040
00:33:14,028 --> 00:33:16,508
joking way, but like, like
actually meant it- Yeah

1041
00:33:16,568 --> 00:33:19,198
I would be so
fundamentally confused.

1042
00:33:19,568 --> 00:33:19,908
Right?

1043
00:33:20,098 --> 00:33:21,937
And we've been together
for 20 years- Yeah … so

1044
00:33:21,938 --> 00:33:23,707
it's not like, you know,
this is a new thing.

1045
00:33:23,798 --> 00:33:25,678
Yeah, it's not like the
opportunity hasn't arisen.

1046
00:33:26,058 --> 00:33:27,438
Yeah, ex- oh my God,
right, and we're both

1047
00:33:27,458 --> 00:33:29,208
very Type A personalities.

1048
00:33:29,208 --> 00:33:31,728
So it, it's not like
either of us are, are coy

1049
00:33:31,738 --> 00:33:32,518
about our feelings, right?

1050
00:33:32,528 --> 00:33:33,158
Yeah, yeah.

1051
00:33:33,718 --> 00:33:37,107
But what I'm saying is, until
you get out there and you meet

1052
00:33:37,108 --> 00:33:40,318
enough spouses, this could,
uh, this is about people

1053
00:33:40,318 --> 00:33:42,152
really, co-founders- Could
be co-founders, could be, yep

1054
00:33:42,152 --> 00:33:44,748
… could be coworkers- Yep … and
partners and whatever, you don't

1055
00:33:44,788 --> 00:33:48,158
really understand that you kinda
gotta crack a bunch of eggs-

1056
00:33:48,338 --> 00:33:48,598
Yeah

1057
00:33:48,658 --> 00:33:50,578
… 
you know, break a bunch of
eggs, before you find the

1058
00:33:50,578 --> 00:33:51,618
one that you're looking for.

1059
00:33:51,678 --> 00:33:51,948
Yep.

1060
00:33:51,978 --> 00:33:52,328
Right?

1061
00:33:52,498 --> 00:33:54,708
And I think people are
terrified of that notion.

1062
00:33:54,768 --> 00:33:56,737
"No, I just wanna find
exactly the right person."

1063
00:33:56,898 --> 00:33:57,228
Yeah.

1064
00:33:57,287 --> 00:33:57,977
Good luck with that.

1065
00:33:58,188 --> 00:34:01,848
It's so funny because that
attitude, that mentality, is

1066
00:34:01,858 --> 00:34:05,358
actually what almost guarantees
you, you won't find what you're,

1067
00:34:05,368 --> 00:34:06,418
you're looking for, right?

1068
00:34:06,448 --> 00:34:08,648
At some point- Right … you
have to realize that the

1069
00:34:08,928 --> 00:34:12,097
failure is the structural steel
that becomes the scaffolding

1070
00:34:12,098 --> 00:34:14,128
for, like, everything that we
build from that point forward.

1071
00:34:14,128 --> 00:34:15,607
You gotta get, you
gotta know those things.

1072
00:34:15,848 --> 00:34:16,897
That's what sets the limits.

1073
00:34:16,898 --> 00:34:17,968
That's what sets the tolerances.

1074
00:34:17,968 --> 00:34:19,608
That's what sets the,
the, the min and the max.

1075
00:34:20,118 --> 00:34:22,458
And then you can actually
start to understand how you

1076
00:34:22,458 --> 00:34:23,428
operate within that system.

1077
00:34:23,428 --> 00:34:26,188
And until then, you're,
you're just guessing.

1078
00:34:26,348 --> 00:34:28,197
I think science tells
us exactly how good we

1079
00:34:28,197 --> 00:34:28,947
are at guessing, right?

1080
00:34:28,947 --> 00:34:30,688
We're gonna get it right
less than half the time.

1081
00:34:31,148 --> 00:34:31,878
Which is fine.

1082
00:34:32,048 --> 00:34:33,777
Here's where I would
say, I, I'm kinda tongue

1083
00:34:33,777 --> 00:34:34,438
in cheek saying this.

1084
00:34:34,967 --> 00:34:37,928
Here's where I really
want people to wait and

1085
00:34:37,928 --> 00:34:39,308
plan as long as possible.

1086
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,170
When they're my competition.

1087
00:34:41,780 --> 00:34:42,680
I want my competition- Oh, yeah.

1088
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,160
… to spend as much time on
the whiteboard- We love it.

1089
00:34:45,170 --> 00:34:47,580
Yes … as much time getting
their degree, as much time

1090
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,140
as, as they can making sure
all their ducks are in a

1091
00:34:50,140 --> 00:34:51,390
row before they launch.

1092
00:34:51,630 --> 00:34:51,840
Yeah.

1093
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,510
Please, competition-
Yes … keep doing that.

1094
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:57,619
Because while you're doing that,
I'm gonna be actually building.

1095
00:34:57,620 --> 00:34:59,050
I'm gonna be getting
the customers you're

1096
00:34:59,050 --> 00:34:59,740
just talking about- Yeah

1097
00:34:59,740 --> 00:35:00,810
on a whiteboard, right?

1098
00:35:00,860 --> 00:35:02,410
I'm gonna be raising
the capital, I'm gonna

1099
00:35:02,410 --> 00:35:03,500
be recruiting the team.

1100
00:35:03,540 --> 00:35:05,670
We're gonna be out here
turning signal into revenue

1101
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,420
while you guys are polishing
degrees and theories.

1102
00:35:08,430 --> 00:35:08,720
Fantastic.

1103
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:09,100
Yeah, yeah.

1104
00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:10,280
Good luck with that, right?

1105
00:35:10,650 --> 00:35:14,350
And the reason I say that is you
don't wanna be my competition

1106
00:35:14,489 --> 00:35:15,580
in this scenario, right?

1107
00:35:15,580 --> 00:35:15,690
Yeah.

1108
00:35:15,690 --> 00:35:17,830
Like, you don't wanna be
the person that's sitting on

1109
00:35:17,830 --> 00:35:21,550
the sideline contemplating-
… while the actual person

1110
00:35:21,550 --> 00:35:23,690
who's gonna make this happen
is- Yeah … out there

1111
00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:24,949
making it happen, right?

1112
00:35:24,970 --> 00:35:27,949
It like, again, this goes
back to the cost of waiting.

1113
00:35:28,249 --> 00:35:28,699
Yeah.

1114
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,520
The cost of waiting
is, is to be the person

1115
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,849
that got sidelined- Yes.

1116
00:35:33,180 --> 00:35:33,450
Yeah

1117
00:35:33,579 --> 00:35:37,040
… 
by the person that didn't
sit around waiting.

1118
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,310
I mean, it's, it's
significant, you know?

1119
00:35:38,620 --> 00:35:38,870
Yeah.

1120
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,080
No, it's, it's absolutely true.

1121
00:35:40,140 --> 00:35:42,200
No, like, it really does.

1122
00:35:42,209 --> 00:35:46,169
Like, it, startups don't reward
planning in that way, right?

1123
00:35:46,169 --> 00:35:48,070
They don't reward- At
all … preparation.

1124
00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:49,590
They reward- Right … action.

1125
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:50,719
They reward motion.

1126
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,120
Now, motion without any
planning, without any thought,

1127
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,310
without any idea, like
you're just kicking up dust.

1128
00:35:55,550 --> 00:35:57,140
When the dust settles-
Yeah … if nothing's changed,

1129
00:35:57,140 --> 00:35:58,120
then also nothing happens.

1130
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,010
So y- sure.

1131
00:35:59,210 --> 00:35:59,650
Sure.

1132
00:35:59,660 --> 00:36:02,159
But I think, you know, if I
have to pick one end of the

1133
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,330
spectrum that I'm gonna lean
towards, there's, there's

1134
00:36:04,330 --> 00:36:06,230
somebody who's out there doing
stuff, and there's the other

1135
00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:07,849
person, you're asking, "What
have you launched so far?"

1136
00:36:07,850 --> 00:36:10,619
And they're like, "Lots
of finger tents," right?

1137
00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:11,479
Lots of pinning.

1138
00:36:11,479 --> 00:36:11,532
Great.

1139
00:36:11,532 --> 00:36:11,637
Okay, cool.

1140
00:36:11,637 --> 00:36:12,170
How's that going?

1141
00:36:12,570 --> 00:36:13,160
Yeah, yeah.

1142
00:36:13,220 --> 00:36:15,750
We're not an
industry of planners.

1143
00:36:15,770 --> 00:36:18,020
And again- No … this
isn't anti-planning.

1144
00:36:18,020 --> 00:36:20,480
Just, just to be clear, just
to, to, to give you a sense

1145
00:36:20,490 --> 00:36:24,019
for, like we own bizplan.com
that we've run for 20 years.

1146
00:36:24,020 --> 00:36:27,189
It's literally a business
planning tool that we built-

1147
00:36:27,210 --> 00:36:29,802
Yep countless copies of, right?

1148
00:36:30,202 --> 00:36:32,952
Clearly we think that there's
something to planning, but

1149
00:36:32,952 --> 00:36:34,702
not at the expense of action.

1150
00:36:34,762 --> 00:36:35,152
Right.

1151
00:36:35,202 --> 00:36:37,522
Planning never happens
at the expense of action.

1152
00:36:37,522 --> 00:36:40,191
Planning is something
that is supported-

1153
00:36:40,572 --> 00:36:41,582
Should create action.

1154
00:36:41,862 --> 00:36:42,592
It should create action.

1155
00:36:42,592 --> 00:36:45,332
You should plan enough to know
what to do next, and you should

1156
00:36:45,332 --> 00:36:46,841
not plan any further than that.

1157
00:36:47,442 --> 00:36:47,892
Correct.

1158
00:36:47,892 --> 00:36:52,132
And, and I think the reason
this should be a massive sigh

1159
00:36:52,132 --> 00:36:56,512
of relief for so many founders
is because they're saying

1160
00:36:56,512 --> 00:36:58,672
they're going, "Well, if I
just get to this point, again,

1161
00:36:58,672 --> 00:37:01,272
if I get the degree, if I get
the cash, you know, once I get

1162
00:37:01,272 --> 00:37:02,442
married," you know, you name it.

1163
00:37:02,442 --> 00:37:05,442
Whatever this, this made
up milestone is, here's the

1164
00:37:05,442 --> 00:37:08,061
great news: It doesn't matter.

1165
00:37:08,211 --> 00:37:08,231
Yeah.

1166
00:37:08,241 --> 00:37:09,831
It doesn't make a
lick of difference.

1167
00:37:09,861 --> 00:37:12,251
None of those milestones,
no matter how much you think

1168
00:37:12,251 --> 00:37:15,482
otherwise, are gonna make a
lick of difference, and none

1169
00:37:15,482 --> 00:37:19,842
of them even remotely compare
to actually taking action.

1170
00:37:19,842 --> 00:37:22,032
So I think if, if folks in
the audience are thinking,

1171
00:37:22,161 --> 00:37:23,052
they're on the fence, right?

1172
00:37:23,052 --> 00:37:24,592
You know, "Maybe I should
wait a little bit longer."

1173
00:37:25,152 --> 00:37:27,932
The biggest mistake you
can make right now is

1174
00:37:27,932 --> 00:37:29,422
waiting one more day.

1175
00:37:29,822 --> 00:37:32,332
Because you jump in tomorrow,
you start taking action, you

1176
00:37:32,332 --> 00:37:34,841
start learning, start learning
faster than your competition,

1177
00:37:35,141 --> 00:37:37,662
that's what's gonna drive
your company, not sitting

1178
00:37:37,662 --> 00:37:38,692
around and planning for it.

1179
00:37:38,972 --> 00:37:40,701
For all of us that are,
that are sitting around and

1180
00:37:40,751 --> 00:37:43,732
planning, we become the losers,
and later is for losers.

1181
00:37:43,752 --> 00:37:46,652
If you wanna win, get in
the game, get in right now.

1182
00:37:48,342 --> 00:37:49,851
Overthinking your startup
because you're going it alone?

1183
00:37:50,302 --> 00:37:53,162
You don't have to, and honestly
you shouldn't, because instead

1184
00:37:53,172 --> 00:37:56,272
you can learn directly from
peers who've been in your shoes.

1185
00:37:56,391 --> 00:37:58,721
Connect with bootstrap
founders and the advisors

1186
00:37:58,722 --> 00:38:01,132
helping them win in the
Startups.com community.

1187
00:38:01,322 --> 00:38:05,922
Check out the Startups.com
community at www.startups.com

1188
00:38:06,032 --> 00:38:06,942
to see if it's for you.

1189
00:38:07,212 --> 00:38:08,251
Could be just the
thing you need.

1190
00:38:08,502 --> 00:38:09,442
I hope to see you inside.