Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello.
Hello.
Welcome, Aileen.
I'm like super excited to have you here.
We've been chatting for a while, so it doesn't feel that
Aileen: new
Anke: anymore.
Aileen: It doesn't, but I love it.
We've been, you're wonderful to talk to.
Anke: And so you are wonderful to talk to as well.
And listeners are going to get a little glimpse of that.
So let's just start out, let people know where in this lovely world
you are, your little type of thing.
It gives it a little bit away.
And so what's your business with dogs?
Aileen: I live in Scottsdale, Arizona, and I own a company where we help new
parents, um, manage their relationship with their dogs and we help their, help
them get their dogs ready for baby.
Anke: I love that.
I love that because it's such a, you know, I mean, I guess it's one of those times
where people kind of, Oh, I've got a baby now, like the dog's going to go, right?
So the idea is that the dog doesn't have to go.
What's the Biggest challenge in that.
Like, why is it hard?
Aileen: Honestly, the biggest challenge is the humans getting
everyone on the same page with the same goal of, and an agreement of
how they want their family life.
To feel.
Um, and so the biggest challenge is one convincing people that they shouldn't
wait until baby's here to work it out.
And two, that it is worth, uh, giving your dog a structure
beforehand to make this transition so much less stressful for them.
Anke: So what, what, what do you mean by structure?
What would that look like?
Aileen: Um, you know, having their basic skills down, knowing what rooms
the dog is allowed and not allowed in.
I have a couple of rules, kind of like the dog doesn't go in the baby's nursery
or anywhere that the baby is sleeping.
Uh, those first few weeks when baby's really little and tiny and we're
not sleeping well, um, it's really.
Uh, dogs will want to come in and they will want to be close to
you and they will want to help.
And sometimes that can be really difficult to manage when you have a teeny tiny baby
in the dark in the middle of the night.
And so making this whole thing so much less stressful for them and saying,
this is where I do want you to sleep.
And I don't, I want to relieve you of the burden of being
responsible for helping me.
Um, um, And then knowing when you do want them included.
And so structure is really just knowing what you want, and knowing what you
want that whole thing to look like.
And so it's going to be different for everybody, it's going to be different
for every temperament, it's going to be different for every family.
And yeah, just coming, like knowing exactly what that looks like going
into it will alleviate a lot of the uncertainty when baby arrives.
Anke: So what are typical things that people are maybe worried about?
And you know, like I was saying when we were chatting before,
It's like my grandma who had the dog who was 10 when I was born.
And now all of a sudden, like, Oh, you're going to have to
look after the grand baby.
And everybody told her, Oh my God, the older, like the dog's kind of older
and he's not going to accept the baby.
Is that a thing?
Is that true?
Aileen: I mean, for some dogs that can be, but in my experience, older
dogs tend to, um, be really good.
They, they tend to be a lot.
more in tune or aware of the energy of the situation.
So a senior dog who is uncomfortable is likely is going to be more likely
to get up and leave a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable.
They're going to have a lot lower energy needs.
Um, and I mean, in our case, we had a dog that was totally deaf, so he never heard.
The baby crying, you wouldn't even wake up to those types of things.
Uh, but you know, for senior dogs, it can, the things that can be stressful is
just the biggest change in the amount of time they used to spend with their person.
And so it is important to know that that can create stress for them.
And how can you alleviate that by having Time, like what
does time together look like?
How can you lean on your partner?
How can you lean on your community to alleviate that for the dog?
Anke: So, so
are there particular like behavior changes or like things that are common?
Whereas like all of a sudden there's this little baby, you know,
but it's the time for the dog.
So are there, you know, would that be a time when all of a sudden the dog gets
more anxious or does things differ?
Oh, yeah.
Aileen: Definitely.
A big complaint I hear from people is their dog is following them around.
So when women become pregnant, they go, Oh, my dog totally knows I'm pregnant.
He won't stop following me around.
He wants to be connected to me all the time.
Well, now all of a sudden, when you have a baby, Caring a baby that is
annoying and scary and frightening.
And so those anxious behaviors, a lot of time, I tell people, your dog
doesn't always know you're pregnant, but they do know you're different.
And so when you're pregnant, you're less likely to Uh, maintain
rules or ask for certain things.
You know, that whole first trimester, we do a lot of laying around and
sleeping in bed, and we love having our dog being a part of that.
But what we're not thinking about is what is this going to feel like when
I have a baby that is a part of this?
And so some of the, the, you know, that following around that stressful behavior.
It is important to start teaching the dogs while you're pregnant, what you
expect when the baby first arrives.
And just like when the baby first arrives, you want to start teaching them what's
expected when baby starts crawling.
So you kind of always want to be like one developmental phase in training
ahead of where your baby currently is.
Anke: Oh, I love that.
So my, my guess is that's not what people usually do, right?
So when, you know, If somebody wants to write, to do the right thing,
you know, when's the best time to let's say work with you to, to
address and get, get ready properly.
Obviously not when the baby's due in two days, right?
I
Aileen: have that happen a lot, but I do have an online course that
people can watch and, and it'll give them, you know, the best.
Basics of what they need to know.
Things like having your dog lay in one, one spot on their bed in training.
We call that place, having them understand that they can be a part
of things at the door, but they don't necessarily have to be in the room with
you while you're changing the baby.
Um, Teaching them that like, if you're walking into their space, we
need them to move out of the way.
Uh, I don't recommend climbing over an 80 pound dog while you're holding a baby.
There's a good chance you're going to trip or they're going to get nervous
and they're going to get scared.
So the best time to start training is when you very first find out that you're
going to be adding a baby to your family.
Um, and so don't wait.
Don't wait until a week before because that's what creates the stress.
It is going to be stressful bringing home a baby no matter what.
So the dog just, we don't want the dog to associate that stress and that change with
the newborn that you just brought home.
We want them to have wonderful, positive associations to each other.
Anke: I saw something somewhere in the video.
Where they, um, prepare, like, basically, before they brought the baby home, they
basically had, they showed, they gave the dog, like, clothes that the baby had worn.
So it was literally, like, kind of the day or a couple of days before, when the baby
was born, before they actually got home.
So that by the time the baby was in the basket, the dog
was familiar with the smell.
Is that something that you'd recommend somebody does?
Aileen: I think the most important piece of that, I, it can be good, but
we always want to remember that it's most important how the dog is behaving
when we share that scent with them.
So if we say, here is the scent of your new human sibling, and they get
really excited and they take it in their mouth and they run all over and
they're like, Oh, that is startling.
Now, if you introduce that scent and they take a nice long whiff, then they
walk away from it calmly and lay down.
That's beautiful.
And so it is something that's important.
We just want to make sure that what we're rewarding that scent
with is a nice calm energy.
Um, there will be plenty of time for them to play down the road, but when
your baby is really teeny tiny and in a bassinet and, you know, doing, you
know, snugly sleepy time, that is not the best time to have a bunch of excitement.
So the most important component to that scent is.
What is the dog doing when it smells it?
And how can you gear that towards a nice calm reaction?
Anke: I mean, to be honest, in that video, they did that really
well because the whole, it was such a beautiful, calm moment.
And then when they basically brought the baby in, what the dog did, the dog went
and Walk the blanket and put it on the baby, you know, it was like really sweet.
So you were like, we were like, obviously we were chatting before, so, but I would
love you to kind of touch on this whole topic of, you know, when the baby is teeny
tiny, and so that has its challenges, you know, because they're just delicate
and you can't have them rocking around.
But, um, You know, what is something that people need to keep in mind when teeny
weeny baby grows up to be a toddler who is the rough one in the relationship?
Aileen: Well, there's a big change when babies start crawling and
walking because now all of a sudden the tables have turned.
When the baby is small and being held a lot, the dog can
come into the baby's stomach.
It's like, okay, I'm gonna take my dog in my space, sniff, smell, and then leave.
But when the baby starts crawling and walking, now all of a sudden the baby can
enter the dog's space without permission.
And that can be really frightening for the dog.
And that's one of those situations where you do want the dog to learn to walk away.
One, from any situation that makes it feel uncomfortable, and that's whether
it's good to have safe spaces for them.
Like a bed or a crate where baby is not allowed.
And it's also why supervision is so important.
I don't ever want parents to get into a place where they feel so
comfortable, even if it's just to walk away and grab your coffee.
That's when those things happen, a snap or a growl.
It's when you didn't see.
What was coming.
I recently had someone send me a video of their dog laying on the floor.
And I think the baby is about 20 months old and she's walking over and she's
got a baby doll and she's all happy.
And then it enters maybe like two feet of the dog space.
And the parent was in the kitchen.
So the parent was, it went dog, baby, parent.
And.
That's never good, especially when baby is walking and dog
isn't comfortable with that yet.
And the dog went from asleep to standing up, not standing all the way, but
going to a raised position and kind of growled and barked at the child.
And of course the child was.
Um, and so that's a situation where it, it happens that quickly and that easily
that a moment that doesn't seem scary can become really scary, really fast.
Um, and that dog was just saying, Hey, my space is being invaded in a way
that I don't feel comfortable with.
Um, and no one's here to be the lifeguard.
So just remembering that you are a lifeguard in all situations.
And you're responsible for coaching the dog.
The dog doesn't have to sit there and tolerate things that
it doesn't want to tolerate.
And then also teaching the child, uh, some boundaries to the dog, because
that will keep your child safe.
Anke: Hmm.
I mean, that's something that like, you know, living in Spain, I've seen a lot
where, you know, people are pretty tough on the dog and make no effort to teach.
you know the kids, anything really you know.
So it's almost like the dog's expected to just put up with whatever you know.
And we're kind of like riding on the dog and pulling on the ears and you know
so and I was like, what, what, what?
You know, so, what, what are some you know I don't know is that
even the thing where you are?
Because.
And I don't think that's a thing in Germany where I'm from, so I've not
experienced it there that parents would let their kids just pounce on
their own dogs or on strange dogs.
Unfortunately,
Aileen: I see it a lot more than I'd like to.
We see it a lot on social media.
You know what I mean?
I think sometimes these videos of kids doing things and look at how
tolerant the dog is, people share those things because they just aren't
realizing the sometimes global impact of that imprint of information.
It really, dogs are not toys.
And they are not playmates to, to children.
Um, babies in particular, especially, you know, toddlers who, as we discussed, are
not prone to listening or cooperation.
Like you have to be the one that sets that boundary for them as
much as you set it for the dog.
There is not in any relationship, it's not entirely.
One party's responsibility to be in control all of the time.
That's a shared responsibility in the family.
And so if we put our dogs under so much pressure, they're not going to have
any choice but to use the technology.
Their body, which is the only thing they have to say, Hey, I don't like that.
And no one is advocating.
So we definitely, we want to be an advocate for both the dog and the
baby, and we want to be a teacher to both the dog and the baby.
Um, it would be really unfair to just ask a dog to tolerate
an endless, you know, torture
Anke: from
Aileen: a
Anke: child.
It's like, you know, kids can be, you know, very.
You know, they have a lot of energy, like they can go on for
a bit, you know, so it's, yeah.
Aileen: And some kids, I mean, just like dogs have different temperaments.
Like I do, I do think that a little bit of resilience in
a family pet is a good thing.
And that comes down to like choosing the, if you are, if you know that
kids are in your future, then you may not want to go out and get the most.
To sound dog on the block.
You may want to have a dog that has a little bit more resilience
to, you know, things that kids do.
And, uh, so making that good choice in the beginning and then also, you
know, helping them become acclimated to what life is like with kids.
It's.
You know, I always tell parents, it's just hard to manage it all.
Even with people, I have a dog training business.
We have a boarding side of our business.
We're in people's homes a lot.
You know, we have, we do, we're very active in our community.
And I talk to moms sometimes and they say, I don't know how you do it.
And I'm like, I don't.
I don't.
Some days I don't do it all.
Like, some days the, you know, things don't get done, or don't get
done right, or don't get done well.
Like, this is a really hard thing to do, to be in charge of
all of these living creatures.
Making sure they're all, you know, living together peacefully.
It's hard.
Anke: I guess the thing is, the thing is, if you do get it right, You
know, it's like the most beautiful thing, you know, because like, if
you mentioned like how many people say, Oh my God, I still remember the
family dog we had when I was a child.
Like it's that special bond and to be able to give that to your child, you know,
I mean, that's like that bond or like nothing's cuter than when they kind of
really close, you know, and, and to have
the dog's got.
You know, it doesn't lose the family, you know, and the child gets to experience
that bond that a dog, like, I think can offer, like, pretty much nobody else.
So I think it is the most beautiful thing if you get it right.
So I think it's putting the effort in.
A lot of effort, you know.
Aileen: Yeah, my memories, uh, we had three dogs pass away last year and
two were very, very involved in my daughter's life from the day she was born.
And like, she remembers both of them and she sees pictures of them and
she asked for them all the time.
Oh my gosh, I'm going to cry.
But like their relationship was amazing.
The one inspiration for this entire company that we have, she is, she
is the original baby pack leader.
My three year old, she is the whole, the whole reason we do this.
And like to see her respect for dogs, her leadership with dogs, To see that in
action now that she's a little bit older and to know that it was the result of
like those two amazing relationships she had in the beginning, they, they didn't
know where they were going half of the time, but they knew where she was and they
knew how to be sweet and gentle with her.
And And she knew how to be sweet and gentle with them.
And that is something that like, I know she won't remember when
she gets older, but I will,
Anke: you know, And on some level she does, I swear, you know, because that's
what the thing where I was saying, like, I was, I had a dog like that
in my life, you know, and I don't.
consciously remember it.
I remember the photos, you know, and so you kind of see that, but the
love for dogs has always been there.
So I don't think,
Aileen: you know, I was watching my three year old teach a
Doberman to swim yesterday.
That's, I mean, like if you do a little bit of work in the beginning, you
get to reap these amazing benefits of just, Everybody, understanding that
everybody has a role communicating with your partner about who's in charge
and who's supervising, you know, a lot of what I do is just helping people
understand, you know, what they want and what their role is and how to get it.
Um, I'm really lucky I don't get.
You know, a lot of calls from people who are in terribly dangerous situations.
Those are few and far between.
And I am help happy to help people explore their options and, you know,
rehome dogs responsibly if it's the right thing to do or the right thing for them.
You know, sometimes I think they don't need to do this,
but it's also not my home.
You know, maybe they do feel that they need to do this, but when You know, it
was, that was amazing to watch her do that yesterday, this big 90 pound Doberman.
She was like, jump in the pool.
And she took his leash and she walked him right in.
And I'm like, this is crazy.
But these are the things that she's going to remember, you know, when she's
older, that she, you know, is powerful.
She's a powerful little girl.
Yeah.
Anke: Yeah, I think that's a, that's a, that's a little video
that she's gonna like cherish.
So where can people go and connect with you and find out and get their
hands on your course and, you know, basically get your help to get prepared.
Aileen: Sure.
We are, you can find us online@www.baby pack leader.com.
We also share a lot of content on Instagram, BA at Baby Pack Leader.
We have a Facebook too.
Um, and yeah, if you.
Pop it into Google.
We should pop up a bunch of places.
Um, I've done a lot of, um, things recently, speaking engagements
recently too, where I've gotten to tap into a lot of like dog training,
the dog training side of things.
Um, and that's been really fun.
Those you can find on YouTube.
Anke: Awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
And, uh, it was an absolute delight, and it's such a lovely topic.
Oh my god!
I'm so glad you do the work you do.
Thank you.
Aileen: Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you for having me.
I feel like we're going to be friends forever.
Anke: I feel that too.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.