WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:03.581 --> 00:00:12.871 Gene Tavernetti: Welcome to Better Teaching, Only Stuff That Works, a podcast for teachers, instructional coaches, administrators, and anyone else who supports teachers in the classroom. 00:00:13.701 --> 00:00:19.701 This show is a proud member of the BE Podcast Network shows that help you go beyond education. 00:00:20.121 --> 00:00:24.471 Find all our shows@bepodcastnetwork.com. 00:00:24.971 --> 00:00:27.731 I Am Gene Tavernetti the host for this podcast. 00:00:27.821 --> 00:00:35.711 And my goal for this episode, like all episodes, is that you laugh at least once and that you leave with an actionable idea for better teaching. 00:00:36.331 --> 00:00:38.881 A quick reminder, no cliches, no buzzwords. 00:00:39.216 --> 00:00:40.586 Only stuff that works. 00:00:41.513 --> 00:00:44.263 My guest today is Dr. Anthony Fitzpatrick. 00:00:44.863 --> 00:00:52.033 Dr. Fitzpatrick is the assistant superintendent of the Delsea Regional and Elk Township school districts in Southern New Jersey. 00:00:52.933 --> 00:01:06.023 Recently awarded the 2026 New Jersey State Central Office Administrator of the Year, he has a unique background that includes experience as a high school teacher, elementary principal, and state director of school innovation. 00:01:06.653 --> 00:01:18.173 His work in building intervention and literacy systems led to an opportunity to reduce administrative paperwork on the part of teachers while recognizing the room for expanded teacher leadership. 00:01:18.943 --> 00:01:28.653 This led to the creation of the first Lead Teacher Apprenticeship Program in the state of New Jersey and the first district-initiated program of its kind in the nation. 00:01:29.903 --> 00:01:35.313 Anthony and I are going to talk a lot about that today, this Lead Teacher Apprenticeship Program. 00:01:35.343 --> 00:01:37.443 I think you're gonna find it very interesting. 00:01:37.663 --> 00:01:39.043 I think you're gonna like this one 00:01:40.483 --> 00:01:41.353 Hello, Anthony. 00:01:41.353 --> 00:01:44.543 Welcome to Better Teaching: Only Stuff That Works. 00:01:45.623 --> 00:01:47.883 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Great to be here, Gene, and it's lovely to meet you. 00:01:48.143 --> 00:01:49.003 Gene Tavernetti: Oh, same. 00:01:49.023 --> 00:01:49.473 Same. 00:01:49.653 --> 00:01:52.673 I'm excited to talk to you about two things. 00:01:52.873 --> 00:02:03.293 One is that you have a new book that came out in February, The Evolving Science of Reading: Building a Continuum from Foundations to Fluent Thinking, and we'll talk about that a little later. 00:02:03.293 --> 00:02:13.823 But first I think people need to hear about some of the work that you spearheaded in New Jersey with regards to a new credential. 00:02:14.143 --> 00:02:18.543 that there was a specific purpose for getting this new credential in place. 00:02:18.563 --> 00:02:24.113 And could you just give us a little bit of background before we talk specifically about that? 00:02:24.643 --> 00:02:25.153 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Sure. 00:02:25.603 --> 00:02:38.603 So it's a credential that's awarded through the United States Department of Labor, which is a sidetrack to the way most endorsements or certificates are awarded. 00:02:38.653 --> 00:02:41.493 So it's a lead teacher credential. 00:02:42.203 --> 00:03:08.453 We are applying through the state of New Jersey to offer the endorsement that adds on to a teacher certificate, but right now it's an industry-valued credential recognized by the United States Department of Labor that's associated with apprenticeship programs, which is the language of the Department of Labor that education doesn't speak yet. 00:03:08.513 --> 00:03:21.093 So it's really interesting to be in a space where I have to learn a different industry language in order to marry the two worlds of education and labor. 00:03:23.311 --> 00:03:32.521 Gene Tavernetti: So exactly… Well, first of all, before I have specific questions about why we had to go that route, talk a little bit about what's involved in the credential. 00:03:32.861 --> 00:03:33.331 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Sure. 00:03:33.341 --> 00:03:40.501 So for our participants to earn the credential, it's a two-path process. 00:03:40.591 --> 00:03:44.881 The one path looks very much like a traditional educational path. 00:03:45.241 --> 00:03:49.561 It's coursework, it's weekly discussions, assignments, things like that. 00:03:50.081 --> 00:03:56.101 But the bulk of the work is actually through a job-embedded clinical experience. 00:03:56.441 --> 00:04:32.321 So an hours-based program that involves mentoring young teachers, promoting their own practice to their colleagues, being involved in not leadership decisions at the point where they're making the decisions, but leadership decisions where they're learning about how decisions are made, being in the room when the decisions are made so they get a better sense of the moving parts, which ideally ma- makes them more informed as they're sharing their experience with their peers. 00:04:33.221 --> 00:04:40.671 Gene Tavernetti: So as you were developing what this was gonna look like what was what was a problem or problems that you were hoping to solve with this? 00:04:41.591 --> 00:04:44.621 Anthony Fitzpatrick: We were hoping to solve a couple problems. 00:04:44.631 --> 00:04:47.251 One was the teacher retention issue. 00:04:47.981 --> 00:04:48.671 So 00:04:50.859 --> 00:04:59.429 and this is what I experienced in my own career a long time ago, was that the way to advance was to leave the classroom. 00:05:00.359 --> 00:05:08.299 And I think so many teachers, and I would include myself in this, I didn't want to leave the classroom. 00:05:08.619 --> 00:05:17.769 There, there began to be a need to leave the classroom, whether it's a financial need, whether it's wanting to expand your reach, expand your impact. 00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:25.079 And the opportunities for teacher leadership at that point, o- 20 years ago, were shrinking. 00:05:26.069 --> 00:05:29.329 Budgets were being cut, department chairs were being cut. 00:05:29.609 --> 00:05:41.859 A bunch of those kind of straddling positions of teacher leadership were beginning to disappear, and so you had to jump with both feet into administration. 00:05:42.889 --> 00:05:51.759 Well, that's fine for some people, but I know a lot of educators who want to continue to make an impact in the classroom. 00:05:52.279 --> 00:06:12.879 And so if we create a pathway toward greater recognition, increased salary, and increased responsibility, then maybe we can hold on to those teachers for five more years as we begin to build that front-end pipeline that everyone's struggling with. 00:06:13.449 --> 00:06:24.969 Because if I have everyone leaving the classroom for the open administrative positions, it intensifies the teacher shortage crisis that many of us are facing in the entry-level jobs. 00:06:25.289 --> 00:06:42.159 So it's to stabilize the teaching staff, provide the recognition through purpose, power, and money, and ensure that we have a consistent teaching staff. 00:06:45.717 --> 00:06:48.867 Gene Tavernetti: To make sure that… Let me reiterate. 00:06:49.307 --> 00:06:52.867 So you wanted to have a lot of times we call it a career ladder. 00:06:52.877 --> 00:07:01.157 Is this a different step on a career ladder, or is it a lateral step but enhanced somehow, or is this something brand new? 00:07:02.117 --> 00:07:06.807 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So I guess it's a hybrid between an enhanced step and something that's brand new. 00:07:07.187 --> 00:07:12.077 Since this pathway didn't exist before, yes, it's brand new. 00:07:12.577 --> 00:07:19.987 But it's teaching just with enhanced professionalism, enhanced opportunity. 00:07:20.777 --> 00:07:27.617 There's no shift in the job responsibility, I would say. 00:07:27.627 --> 00:07:34.517 I mean, our apprentices, our lead teacher apprentices will be teaching a full schedule. 00:07:35.397 --> 00:07:43.767 So there isn't necessarily additional mandated responsibilities once they acquire this credential. 00:07:44.107 --> 00:07:47.027 It's a recognition of what they're already doing. 00:07:47.537 --> 00:07:58.007 They're enhancing their own professional practice, and therefore, the recognition is bestowed upon them through credential and movement across the salary guide. 00:07:58.607 --> 00:08:16.347 Gene Tavernetti: So, so let's try to draw a distinction between how you all did it with going through the Department of Labor versus the Department of Ed, and k- kind of was there was this a conscious decision based on what the bureaucratic hurdles may be, or… 00:08:16.427 --> 00:08:17.217 I see you smiling. 00:08:20.027 --> 00:08:20.707 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yes. 00:08:20.857 --> 00:08:29.977 So the US Department of Labor has recently recognized the lead teacher in credential. 00:08:30.567 --> 00:08:35.027 So this is something that is brand new from the federal government. 00:08:35.607 --> 00:08:48.307 There's only one other organization in the country who is a registered provider of this credential, and that's a partnership between the State of North Dakota and Arizona State University. 00:08:48.737 --> 00:08:58.627 So we are the first local school district in the country to be approved to provide this credential through the Department of Labor. 00:08:58.997 --> 00:09:14.247 So there were a bunch of hoops to jump through, but we jumped through those hoops because there was a New Jersey grant for apprentices to get funding to increase the amount of apprentices in the state. 00:09:14.827 --> 00:09:23.967 So here we have this new credential from the feds, and here we have this grant from the State of New Jersey, and that timing was perfect. 00:09:24.367 --> 00:09:29.057 So we applied for the grant and got the grant, and now we have this credential over here. 00:09:29.867 --> 00:09:35.777 But a credential from the Department of Labor means nothing to the Department of Education. 00:09:36.667 --> 00:09:47.827 So, so we are currently in the application process to also award the teacher leader endorsement from the State of New Jersey. 00:09:47.837 --> 00:09:51.597 So those two things are not the same. 00:09:51.807 --> 00:09:53.357 They are not equivalent. 00:09:54.767 --> 00:09:58.287 I don't know why, but it's- it's hoops, right? 00:09:58.287 --> 00:09:58.317 Right, right, right. 00:09:58.317 --> 00:10:04.597 And anyone that's been in education long enough understands that it's hoop after hoop. 00:10:05.617 --> 00:10:11.917 This time it's just two different agencies that do not speak the same language. 00:10:12.267 --> 00:10:17.857 So teachers will end up, hopefully-- They'll definitely end up with a credential. 00:10:18.697 --> 00:10:24.157 We are getting credit transcription for 15 graduate credits. 00:10:24.157 --> 00:10:26.067 That's what moves them on the salary guide. 00:10:27.147 --> 00:10:32.567 And then hopefully they will also get the New Jersey endorsement 00:10:36.259 --> 00:10:37.789 Gene Tavernetti: So let's back up a little bit. 00:10:37.959 --> 00:10:41.309 God, I got so many… the details are always what's so interesting. 00:10:41.749 --> 00:10:45.059 So you have you say there's- it's going on in another state. 00:10:45.069 --> 00:10:47.529 Did you say North Dakota and ASU, Arizona State? 00:10:47.529 --> 00:10:47.899 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yes. 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:47.949 Okay. 00:10:47.959 --> 00:10:49.869 North Dakota and Arizona State University. 00:10:49.929 --> 00:10:56.179 Gene Tavernetti: So when you applied to do this, who is the partner that you're doing this with? 00:10:56.699 --> 00:10:58.409 Is it you all? 00:10:58.409 --> 00:11:00.099 I mean, it- We don't have a partner … it's the district. 00:11:00.129 --> 00:11:00.986 The district is providing this. 00:11:00.986 --> 00:11:01.259 It's the district. 00:11:01.729 --> 00:11:02.149 Okay. 00:11:02.229 --> 00:11:11.349 So how did you convince them that you guys had the the juice, the brainpower, the whatever, as compared to, you know, university programs? 00:11:12.169 --> 00:11:14.039 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So it's interesting. 00:11:14.339 --> 00:11:27.899 We had to convince both the United States Department of Labor and the New Jersey Department of Labor, because we had to become a registered provider with the feds, and then we had to get approval for the grant from New Jersey. 00:11:28.619 --> 00:11:43.675 But we have been building towards this- culture for five years without knowing that there would ever be a credential, without knowing that we'd ever wanna be a provider of an endorsement. 00:11:44.225 --> 00:11:49.385 We have been building informal teacher leadership for five years. 00:11:49.685 --> 00:12:02.875 So we have a lot of the structures and practices in place already, so the application process wasn't difficult because we'd already proven that our teachers have enhanced leadership opportunities. 00:12:03.875 --> 00:12:05.815 Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so again a couple more details. 00:12:06.335 --> 00:12:14.925 So I'm in your district and I'm lucky enough to be part of one of these cohorts that i- is going through, and I get this. 00:12:15.235 --> 00:12:18.055 It's not a credential, it's a… Well, it is a credential. 00:12:18.125 --> 00:12:18.705 It is a credential. 00:12:18.765 --> 00:12:23.535 It is a credential, but the state doesn't even recognize it as an add-on yet. 00:12:23.835 --> 00:12:24.355 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Correct. 00:12:25.365 --> 00:12:28.875 Gene Tavernetti: Is that an enhance, another enhancement to stay in your district? 00:12:29.135 --> 00:12:29.805 Because… 00:12:30.865 --> 00:12:49.005 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Well, the enhancement is that since we have 15 graduate credits transcripted with the credential, the way New Jersey salary guides work is you get a bump in pay after bachelor's plus 15 master's plus 15, master's plus 30. 00:12:49.255 --> 00:12:55.035 So every f- bank of 15 credits or an advanced degree, you get a salary bump. 00:12:55.405 --> 00:13:06.015 So we went for 15 graduate credits so that we could guarantee that this credential is paired with a permanent and pensionable salary increase. 00:13:06.595 --> 00:13:17.185 Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so to to be able to provide those credits and them to be legit, again, I'm wondering how did you let people know? 00:13:17.185 --> 00:13:19.225 I mean, because you're not a university. 00:13:19.565 --> 00:13:29.815 You're not an accredited four-year, which is usually one of the requirements for those for people to take a look at those those units and say, "Okay, these are okay. We're gonna give you that bump." Yes. 00:13:29.815 --> 00:13:31.115 So what was that like? 00:13:31.365 --> 00:13:37.245 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So we are partnering with an institute of, institution of higher education. 00:13:37.285 --> 00:13:40.739 It's- There is an NDA right now. 00:13:40.739 --> 00:13:43.629 They're reviewing- Okay … our learning management system. 00:13:44.099 --> 00:13:52.049 So for our work in district, our people will be awarded 12 of the 15 credits. 00:13:52.429 --> 00:14:03.309 And then the last piece is a virtual course with that college- Okay … in their system to complete the path. 00:14:03.789 --> 00:14:07.329 Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so there still needs to be some sort of partnership, but it's- Yes 00:14:07.339 --> 00:14:15.409 you, I say you, your district, is providing all the rest of the the content, the courses, the training. 00:14:15.819 --> 00:14:16.569 Anthony Fitzpatrick: That is correct. 00:14:16.579 --> 00:14:22.959 And when all is said and done, we are the ones who will award the credential. 00:14:23.999 --> 00:14:25.349 Gene Tavernetti: So, so what's involved? 00:14:25.349 --> 00:14:28.679 So what would be involved in earning those 12 units? 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:39.579 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So we had to develop a competency tracker, and there were a couple non-negotiables 00:14:42.099 --> 00:14:46.159 We had to put in adult coaching requirements. 00:14:46.169 --> 00:14:52.119 So you are embedded in a school, and you have to work with others. 00:14:52.129 --> 00:14:57.719 And so we do things like track the amount of interactions and the quality of interactions you have with your peers. 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:10.629 We look at the different instructional practices that you've put in place because another pillar that we have is instructional effectiveness and data-driven decision-making. 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.739 And then we have instructional leadership pieces as well. 00:15:17.059 --> 00:15:19.859 So it's not just your own practice. 00:15:19.869 --> 00:15:25.499 It's not just the ability to help other adults be reflective about their practice. 00:15:25.939 --> 00:15:36.479 It's then some nuts and bolts implementation, leadership, management type decisions that you have to be able to successfully make. 00:15:36.479 --> 00:15:38.709 So we developed a 00:15:42.873 --> 00:16:00.263 32-week competency tracker to begin to measure at which point during the year, because it's a one-year program, when did you demonstrate competence in all of these different areas 00:16:02.103 --> 00:16:03.763 Gene Tavernetti: So they're continuing to teach. 00:16:04.183 --> 00:16:04.443 Yes. 00:16:04.453 --> 00:16:09.283 They're s- they, they have their full load, so when does the training take place? 00:16:09.283 --> 00:16:13.063 What's the commitment, time commitment outside of the classroom for these folks? 00:16:13.783 --> 00:16:18.863 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Most of the training is happening during the school day. 00:16:19.523 --> 00:16:36.503 So for the instructional practice piece, because we've been working on this for five years, I already know that most, if not all, and I'm pretty confident in saying all of the participants have already demonstrated that instructional mastery piece. 00:16:37.163 --> 00:16:41.443 So then we leverage co-planning days in our district. 00:16:41.673 --> 00:16:47.663 So four times a year we pull our departments the first two weeks of every marking period. 00:16:48.043 --> 00:16:51.703 So the first Monday of the marking period, I pull the ELA department. 00:16:52.153 --> 00:17:03.123 The first Tuesday, social studies department, and so on and so forth, so that they are making instructional decisions for the upcoming marking period. 00:17:03.583 --> 00:17:05.103 So they're looking at data. 00:17:05.183 --> 00:17:07.413 They're talking about their instructional practices. 00:17:07.623 --> 00:17:12.333 They're planning for the next eight to nine weeks of instruction. 00:17:13.073 --> 00:17:21.833 So those embedded opportunities that are already a part of our school year are where the big work really takes place. 00:17:23.263 --> 00:17:25.713 Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so, so they're actually doing the work. 00:17:25.743 --> 00:17:34.183 And who is involved in the district in overseeing evaluating that these competencies have been met? 00:17:34.453 --> 00:17:34.883 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Sure. 00:17:34.983 --> 00:17:42.023 I have two full-time instructional supervisors who will serve as field supervisors for the program. 00:17:42.733 --> 00:17:58.283 I will oversee the coursework, so the weekly discussions and assignments they turn in through our learning management system, but the on-the-ground monitoring of the competencies will happen through the two instructional supervisors. 00:17:58.623 --> 00:18:00.943 Gene Tavernetti: Okay, so there is some coursework that needs to be done. 00:18:00.953 --> 00:18:03.033 It's not… They don't have to leave the classroom. 00:18:03.043 --> 00:18:03.063 No. 00:18:03.073 --> 00:18:05.803 They have some flexibility in when it happens. 00:18:06.313 --> 00:18:06.543 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Correct. 00:18:06.543 --> 00:18:07.783 Gene Tavernetti: E- et cetera, et ceteras. 00:18:07.983 --> 00:18:13.023 So, when you open this up to folks did you get… Was there a lot of interest? 00:18:13.023 --> 00:18:14.003 How did you roll it out? 00:18:14.013 --> 00:18:15.923 What did you… How did you sell sell it? 00:18:15.943 --> 00:18:18.723 What's the… What was the elevator pitch to these folks? 00:18:19.523 --> 00:18:32.553 Anthony Fitzpatrick: The, well, the first elevator pitch was, "I'm gonna find a way to get you 15 graduate credits and a salary increase that's paid for by us." And then so I had a lot of interest there, which, you know, don't hate the player, hate the game. 00:18:32.553 --> 00:18:32.823 Yeah. 00:18:33.263 --> 00:18:44.951 And but again, because we've been building this, we've had- grant-funded leads for three years already. 00:18:45.931 --> 00:18:51.081 So it's a bunch of the same people who have already been digging into the work. 00:18:51.971 --> 00:18:54.281 Now I get to offer credits with it. 00:18:54.321 --> 00:19:00.841 Now I get to offer a permanent salary increase instead of a temporary grant-funded stipend. 00:19:01.311 --> 00:19:20.191 So I had enough money through this New Jersey Department of Labor grant to fund 20 apprentices, and that's we have 20… We had a little bit more than 20 applicants, but I was able to fill all of those slots. 00:19:20.741 --> 00:19:45.549 And so my hope is that, yes, this is grant-funded, but because the partnership with our institution of higher education is really cost-effective, and we're doing so much of this coursework in-house, that at the end of the day, if I have more people who wanna do this and I don't have grant money, it is A 00:19:47.829 --> 00:19:55.159 fascinatingly cheap way to build in teacher leadership with most of the legwork happening in the district. 00:19:55.879 --> 00:20:02.949 'Cause credit transcription is always going to be more cost effective than sending people out and doing tuition reimbursement. 00:20:02.949 --> 00:20:03.319 Right. 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:03.699 Gene Tavernetti: Right. 00:20:03.789 --> 00:20:04.119 Right. 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:18.369 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So if I can take care of 12 of the credits at a really reduced credit transcription rate, I've just lowered the budgetary burden on graduate coursework for the district. 00:20:18.589 --> 00:20:27.379 And so if I have to pick that up locally, it becomes much more possible to expand this program beyond what grant funding can do. 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:30.309 Gene Tavernetti: So h- how many districts… How many districts? 00:20:30.309 --> 00:20:34.219 How many teachers do you have in the district roughly? 00:20:34.229 --> 00:20:39.889 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Well, it's t- it's two school districts, so if I were to say, it's probably about 180 total. 00:20:39.899 --> 00:20:39.909 O- 00:20:40.389 --> 00:20:40.779 Gene Tavernetti: okay. 00:20:40.959 --> 00:20:46.399 So ideally, the grant funding continues, you're able to do this. 00:20:46.749 --> 00:20:53.169 H- what percentage of teachers would you like to see complete at this apprenticeship? 00:20:53.429 --> 00:20:54.209 Anthony Fitzpatrick: 100. 00:20:54.609 --> 00:20:55.019 Gene Tavernetti: Okay. 00:20:55.969 --> 00:20:56.459 Okay. 00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.779 And so, so right now you've got 20 folks. 00:21:00.139 --> 00:21:00.499 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yes. 00:21:01.129 --> 00:21:04.379 Gene Tavernetti: And so they're… Did they complete the year? 00:21:04.429 --> 00:21:07.659 Are they, are we completed with the year yet, or how close? 00:21:07.939 --> 00:21:10.159 Anthony Fitzpatrick: This has not started yet, so- Oh, okay. 00:21:10.189 --> 00:21:10.549 Gene Tavernetti: Okay. 00:21:10.589 --> 00:21:11.049 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Okay … yeah. 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:16.199 This all got approved, April 3rd was when we got approved to be the provider. 00:21:16.789 --> 00:21:20.169 That's why I can't tell you who the college is yet. 00:21:20.169 --> 00:21:20.239 I got it. 00:21:20.239 --> 00:21:20.519 I 00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:20.959 Gene Tavernetti: understand. 00:21:20.959 --> 00:21:20.969 I 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:21.939 Anthony Fitzpatrick: understand. 00:21:21.949 --> 00:21:30.199 I'm literally building a learning management system, which they tell you to never do that, so what did we do? 00:21:30.249 --> 00:21:30.909 We're building one. 00:21:31.689 --> 00:21:36.659 So it's really interesting to watch all the pieces come together. 00:21:36.659 --> 00:21:48.799 And so being very honest, the amount of trust that these teachers have that this is going to be real I asked them to take a leap of faith. 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:56.509 I said I don't have the agreement yet with the university because they need to see the learning management system which I'm building. 00:21:58.289 --> 00:21:58.959 Trust me." 00:21:58.959 --> 00:21:59.439 Gene Tavernetti: Yeah. 00:21:59.439 --> 00:21:59.709 Yeah. 00:21:59.709 --> 00:22:05.599 " Anthony Fitzpatrick: Trust me that this will happen." And I filled all the slots. 00:22:05.609 --> 00:22:09.000 So the groundwork, the seeds have been planted for a while. 00:22:09.930 --> 00:22:16.430 Gene Tavernetti: So, you've got these you've got these folks hoping to, excuse me, hoping to get started soon. 00:22:16.970 --> 00:22:19.580 What is the… you talked about two areas. 00:22:19.580 --> 00:22:31.540 One is teacher leadership, and another one, I think maybe I'm interpreting this, basically teacher competence, something that has been done prior, something that you guys it's built in. 00:22:32.190 --> 00:22:39.280 So w- what does the teacher leadership what's that gonna look like versus what an aspiring administrator might go through? 00:22:40.620 --> 00:23:05.360 Anthony Fitzpatrick: I think teacher leadership looks like someone who is a well-versed, deeply knowledgeable teacher who is a resource for their colleagues, who has enhanced knowledge on a school or district's decision-making process so they can help people make positive change. 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:07.750 So think of it like 00:23:09.882 --> 00:23:18.702 A smaller scale advocacy track where you're advocating for effective instructional and building decision-making. 00:23:19.482 --> 00:23:31.332 Because I often find teachers have great ideas, but they run into the brick wall of not knowing how to wend their way through the bureaucracy. 00:23:33.092 --> 00:23:48.152 We give them a little bit of that information so their good ideas stand a chance at being embedded into the school culture without everything being siphoned through a building principal. 00:23:48.482 --> 00:23:56.542 So in so many ways, for the past 15, 20 years, we've all talked about principals are the instructional leader of the building. 00:23:57.722 --> 00:24:05.932 That's great, but that doesn't mean that a principal needs to be the arbiter of instruction at all times. 00:24:06.412 --> 00:24:19.852 We can share some of that responsibility with teachers across departments that the building principal may have no knowledge of that content area, that specific discipline. 00:24:20.332 --> 00:24:31.592 And when you share the ability to make it through bureaucracy, some really great ideas can affect some departments that maybe get left behind. 00:24:32.042 --> 00:24:44.962 A great music department can thrive and not have a principal who knows anything about music because we now empower teachers with decision-making capabilities. 00:24:45.562 --> 00:24:53.272 Gene Tavernetti: Well, it sounds like you have, based on what you, based on what you've said, you have a lot of these things already embedded in the culture. 00:24:53.982 --> 00:25:22.012 And when I think of, you know, these 20 folks going out and assuming leadership positions in the way that you discuss them right now, is there still a concern that they, as now they're advocates for these things because they have an understanding and, you know, that they're gonna be on the dark side, they're gonna be seen as the dark side, they've already moved and you know, you say you're still one of us, but you just, you sure sound like, you sure sound like them. 00:25:22.952 --> 00:25:23.822 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So I think- 00:25:26.230 --> 00:25:27.020 I get that. 00:25:27.980 --> 00:25:44.060 Because this will be open to so many teachers over the next few years, I don't think we'll suffer from that in a way that the old school department chairs suffered from that. 00:25:44.750 --> 00:25:46.270 None of this will be evaluative. 00:25:46.270 --> 00:25:52.610 None of it will even be formal coaching where coaching cycle reports get sent to me. 00:25:53.380 --> 00:25:56.530 It's a trusted mentor and friend. 00:25:56.980 --> 00:26:13.600 And again, because we have done this informally for the past three years, and I've been able to say yes to just about everyone that's ever wanted to participate, there isn't as much separation. 00:26:13.660 --> 00:26:16.740 And I should say we are two very small school districts. 00:26:17.090 --> 00:26:21.750 One of the school districts has 350 kids, the other one has 1,500. 00:26:22.490 --> 00:26:25.700 My office is in a school building 00:26:28.314 --> 00:26:30.084 Teachers walk into my office all the time. 00:26:30.724 --> 00:26:37.214 It's n- it's not separated the way I've felt it in other districts that I've worked in. 00:26:37.854 --> 00:26:38.844 It's really comfortable. 00:26:38.864 --> 00:26:46.944 I mean, people walk down the hallway and, yes, I guess officially I'm Dr. Fitzpatrick, but when I walk down the hallway it's, "Hey, Anthony, how you doing?" 00:26:47.164 --> 00:26:47.434 Gene Tavernetti: Yeah. 00:26:47.464 --> 00:26:56.404 " Anthony Fitzpatrick: Great, Mary, how are you?" Like, it like the… We are South Jersey tight as can be. 00:26:57.414 --> 00:27:01.384 We don't rest on formality, and I think that helps a lot. 00:27:01.864 --> 00:27:18.514 And we've also been blessed to have a lot of grant money come in over the past few years, so we have been a culture of yes for so long that when teachers ask for something, I usually get it for them. 00:27:18.784 --> 00:27:26.884 And so that also goes a long way that I'm not inviting you into a decision-making structure to always put up a brick wall. 00:27:27.054 --> 00:27:32.134 I'm inviting you into this decision-making structure so that you can figure out how the answer can be yes. 00:27:32.434 --> 00:27:34.104 And I don't know what you're gonna ask for- 00:27:34.124 --> 00:27:34.414 Gene Tavernetti: Yeah 00:27:34.514 --> 00:27:36.264 … Anthony Fitzpatrick: but let's find out how it can be yes. 00:27:37.414 --> 00:27:39.234 Gene Tavernetti: You know, th- this sounds terrific. 00:27:39.254 --> 00:27:46.534 I took… Before we started recording, I told you that I had listened to you on another podcast and how wonderful this was, that I thought it was. 00:27:46.994 --> 00:27:51.374 But it doesn't matter how wonderful something, something sounds. 00:27:51.624 --> 00:27:57.434 What were some of the, what were some of the obstacles, any pushback from faculty on this? 00:27:57.484 --> 00:28:03.724 Any comments that you wanted to be sure… That, that were, that you thought were legit that you actually addressed? 00:28:03.994 --> 00:28:04.584 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Sure. 00:28:04.614 --> 00:28:13.974 So I think where I did not do a good job in the very beginning, and when I say very beginning, April, so, like, three months ago. 00:28:13.974 --> 00:28:14.844 That's how new this is. 00:28:17.014 --> 00:28:26.784 Since I was building the plane as I was flying it, I did a bad job at explaining the why behind it up front. 00:28:27.454 --> 00:28:36.774 And so the initial resistance I got at first was, "Well, what does this mean for our instructional coach? 00:28:37.144 --> 00:28:39.684 What does this mean for our PLC leaders? 00:28:39.774 --> 00:28:41.434 Are you looking to get rid of them? 00:28:41.464 --> 00:28:53.042 Are you looking to…" And so I had to do a better job, and it was really instructive for me of saying, "No, the- We love our instructional coach. 00:28:53.502 --> 00:28:55.022 We have our PLC leaders. 00:28:56.282 --> 00:29:03.432 I want this to be an opportunity for as many people who can do this just so they know more. 00:29:04.272 --> 00:29:07.102 Like, this is an enhanced learning opportunity. 00:29:07.322 --> 00:29:12.582 There is never going to be a position of lead teacher. 00:29:13.172 --> 00:29:14.032 There just won't. 00:29:14.562 --> 00:29:21.512 We don't have the money for it, and I don't know, I feel a certain way about that title. 00:29:22.162 --> 00:29:26.662 I feel that's when things start to really divide people. 00:29:27.062 --> 00:29:30.542 Like, oh, this is someone who is a lead teacher. 00:29:30.922 --> 00:29:31.922 What did they do? 00:29:31.942 --> 00:29:32.912 How did they get that? 00:29:33.202 --> 00:29:33.802 Like, no. 00:29:34.542 --> 00:30:02.192 I want everyone to be able to earn this credential just because of the knowledge and the experience that comes with going through the apprenticeship, and that's why it's important for me to make the reward permanent and pensionable because it's not something that, you know, when I retire pretty soon, when that happens, someone's gonna come in after me, and this isn't a program that they can take away from people who have earned it. 00:30:02.942 --> 00:30:09.472 This is in recognition of a body of knowledge that people possess by going through an apprenticeship 00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:14.760 Gene Tavernetti: Thus they move on the salary schedule. 00:30:14.780 --> 00:30:16.800 Everything, it's now they've already moved. 00:30:16.820 --> 00:30:18.580 You can't take, you take, can't take that away. 00:30:18.930 --> 00:30:19.220 Correct. 00:30:19.220 --> 00:30:23.710 Talking about the salary schedule, any union issues with this? 00:30:24.520 --> 00:30:25.020 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Oh, no. 00:30:25.060 --> 00:30:29.100 They love it because their members get to make more money. 00:30:29.570 --> 00:30:32.320 So, you know, in, in the best of worlds… 00:30:32.320 --> 00:30:37.610 Again, this is why I want 100% of my teachers to be able to go through this program. 00:30:37.850 --> 00:30:40.390 I want them to move over on the salary guide. 00:30:40.800 --> 00:30:42.620 That's real future for them. 00:30:42.730 --> 00:30:44.220 That's real money, right? 00:30:44.540 --> 00:31:10.570 And if I can pay for that through grant funding or make it as cheap as possible for the district to be able to do that, then we should be offering those job-embedded opportunities that are not a leadership theory class that you have to go to one or two nights a week for hours, and that's really just, and I hate to be so sharp-elbowed about this, a glorified book study. 00:31:11.390 --> 00:31:21.930 I want job-embedded deep learning about the things that people do as teachers, not a leadership theory book. 00:31:22.550 --> 00:31:24.180 I need this to be in practice 00:31:27.008 --> 00:31:37.458 Gene Tavernetti: One of the things that I think I heard you say, and if I didn't hear you say it, let's pretend you did say it and that is that, that you really had two issues that you wanted to solve. 00:31:37.458 --> 00:31:46.548 One is retention of those early years teachers and then also the ones that we talked about already, the ones that had been there a while. 00:31:46.578 --> 00:31:50.568 They need… You know, they're thinking about how can I make more money, et cetera, et cetera. 00:31:51.038 --> 00:31:55.058 So what ha- what are we doing for those early teachers? 00:31:55.838 --> 00:31:56.208 Does that… 00:31:56.228 --> 00:31:58.028 Is this gonna impact them positively? 00:31:58.638 --> 00:31:59.228 Anthony Fitzpatrick: It will. 00:31:59.238 --> 00:32:08.288 So if we're being really specific with what we call early teachers as soon as someone has four years of experience, they are eligible for this program. 00:32:09.408 --> 00:32:32.998 So those first four years of someone's career, my hope is that they are benefiting from colleagues who are teaching next door, who they're standing outside of their hallway conversing in between classes, or they have common planning time in the elementary school, that they are learning from the people who have gone through the apprenticeship. 00:32:33.268 --> 00:32:45.378 And once they get their fourth year, they apply, they join, they move over on the salary guide sooner in their career, and that earning potential just compounds. 00:32:45.398 --> 00:32:55.798 It's that advice that we got that we never listen to, that, "Hey, if you take this, if you take $100 a month and put it in your 403b" and we all nodded, and we never did it. 00:32:55.798 --> 00:32:56.173 Right, right, right. 00:32:56.173 --> 00:33:14.798 And be like, "You could have a million dollars." But if I can get if I can get that extra $500,000 a year in someone's pension Early, that means a whole heck of a lot when they've got their 25, their 30 years in. 00:33:15.838 --> 00:33:16.958 That's meaningful. 00:33:17.288 --> 00:33:23.768 And they'll never understand when they're 25, but when they're when they're- Yeah 00:33:24.318 --> 00:33:31.518 our age, they w- they will recognize that decision way back then had a big ripple effect. 00:33:32.078 --> 00:33:42.908 Gene Tavernetti: So, so to, to paraphrase, they're not gonna be eligible to be in this program until they have satisfied some New Jersey, Correct … some New Jersey qualification. 00:33:42.918 --> 00:33:52.198 But you are gonna have these teachers now, and more and more year after year, to be able to provide additional support. 00:33:52.468 --> 00:33:55.931 But y- do you already have support for those early teachers? 00:33:56.251 --> 00:33:56.791 Anthony Fitzpatrick: We do. 00:33:57.101 --> 00:34:01.481 So we have a robust, we call it New Teacher Academy. 00:34:02.031 --> 00:34:04.041 We have a robust New Teacher Academy. 00:34:04.201 --> 00:34:06.871 I've trained all of my teachers as mentors. 00:34:06.891 --> 00:34:07.571 I say I've did. 00:34:07.631 --> 00:34:08.611 I did not train them. 00:34:08.841 --> 00:34:10.511 We have people that train our mentors. 00:34:10.621 --> 00:34:12.161 Wonderful teachers who do that. 00:34:12.861 --> 00:34:24.941 We have all of that done, and we recently just updated our mentorship materials and resources for teachers, and that has been a particular strength. 00:34:25.351 --> 00:34:27.121 I actually take no credit for it. 00:34:27.451 --> 00:34:33.681 Delsea and Elk, those two school districts have been strong mentorship districts long before I got there. 00:34:33.951 --> 00:34:38.981 It's actually a hallmark of th- those two districts. 00:34:39.401 --> 00:34:41.451 We do classroom visits. 00:34:41.571 --> 00:34:43.491 We do common planning time. 00:34:43.731 --> 00:34:49.171 We do a strong mentorship contract with monthly meetings, stuff like that. 00:34:49.441 --> 00:34:53.591 It's very strong, and I t- I take no credit for its establishment. 00:34:54.231 --> 00:35:14.431 Gene Tavernetti: So if I was a mentor in your district in one of these, one of the two districts, and now this apprenticeship was available, would that be a positive thing or a negative thing that I was already a mentor in, in, in judging how I would, you know, as an applicant to the program? 00:35:15.011 --> 00:35:17.471 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Oh, it definitely strengthens the application process. 00:35:17.471 --> 00:35:27.411 But because I've trained everyone and we trained everyone as mentors because we have been going through a pretty massive staff turnover. 00:35:28.561 --> 00:35:32.011 We have been, … and for very good reason. 00:35:32.141 --> 00:35:36.601 We don't have a lot of people leaving the district other than for retiring. 00:35:37.351 --> 00:35:42.871 So we have a l- large amount of staff who are all in that 00:35:45.059 --> 00:35:52.059 I'm retiring next year, I'm retiring in two years, and that has been consistent for the past three to four years. 00:35:52.069 --> 00:35:58.249 So we've had a big chunk of non-tenured staff members for a while. 00:35:58.669 --> 00:36:03.949 So seeing… I was running out of mentors because we had too many non-tenured teachers. 00:36:04.289 --> 00:36:16.109 So I said, "You know what? Let's train everybody so that we cast a wide net." I see this wave of new young teachers that are gonna be hired in this district. 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.319 I need to prepare for an increased amount of mentors. 00:36:21.959 --> 00:36:28.549 So we train them all, and that's why it's already a part of our culture. 00:36:28.809 --> 00:36:34.559 Gene Tavernetti: You know, I just realized why I misunderstood you, because you said, "We train all our teachers as mentors." 00:36:34.969 --> 00:36:39.449 And in my mind I was thinking, "We train all our mentor teachers." 00:36:39.899 --> 00:36:40.199 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Oh, no. 00:36:40.609 --> 00:36:45.769 Gene Tavernetti: Because they're… You know, I work in a lot of districts where the mentor teachers don't get a lot of training. 00:36:46.469 --> 00:36:50.719 You know, they've just been around, and now you're a mentor, and, you know, go work with Anthony. 00:36:51.279 --> 00:36:51.839 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Oh, no. 00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:53.869 Oh no. 00:36:56.019 --> 00:36:56.249 No. 00:36:56.249 --> 00:37:11.179 We, we do a big formal training, but to be selected as a mentor to go through the process, we have developed a really robust program for that. 00:37:13.009 --> 00:37:16.569 Gene Tavernetti: So, so this program, it's gonna, it's gonna be started next year. 00:37:16.569 --> 00:37:19.029 You already have your, you already have your folks. 00:37:19.309 --> 00:37:25.339 You already can get going Can you get going regardless of getting things worked out with this institution? 00:37:25.799 --> 00:37:26.259 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yes. 00:37:26.359 --> 00:37:27.469 Gene Tavernetti: You can get going. 00:37:27.479 --> 00:37:27.509 Yes. 00:37:27.509 --> 00:37:32.549 So, so you're gonna be going regardless of- Yes … of working all this other stuff out. 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:35.419 So, 20, 20 participants. 00:37:35.419 --> 00:37:36.339 You got grants. 00:37:36.499 --> 00:37:39.509 What are you looking for in five years? 00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:44.459 How would you like to see classrooms change, cultures change, et cetera? 00:37:45.499 --> 00:37:54.449 Anthony Fitzpatrick: I think the way classrooms should change is that great intentional instruction won't happen by chance. 00:37:54.459 --> 00:37:58.529 It will be intentionally designed across every classroom. 00:37:59.539 --> 00:38:03.759 And again we do-- I believe we do a really great job with instruction. 00:38:04.299 --> 00:38:05.819 That has been by design. 00:38:06.419 --> 00:38:21.569 But if I'm looking five years into the future, that becomes something that every teacher is acutely aware of that it's happening, and I think that's our next step anyway, is that we've been intentionally building a coherent instructional system. 00:38:23.787 --> 00:38:29.287 The awareness of teachers that's what's happening is kind of the icing on the cake that we need next. 00:38:29.677 --> 00:38:36.397 And so within f- in five years, I think that just becomes a living, breathing part of our culture. 00:38:36.827 --> 00:38:48.047 I think professional development also changes within the five years, that we get away from the sit and get, one and done. 00:38:48.497 --> 00:38:59.897 I mean, we've had some great speakers come in that, that have planted a nice seed, and we've done a really nice job of following up with the things that we've learned in some of those sessions. 00:39:00.507 --> 00:39:05.727 But, you know, sometimes that can be a shot in the dark. 00:39:05.917 --> 00:39:17.977 And if you're really an organization that's learning, that's happening regardless of whether someone's speaking to you on one of the five professional development days. 00:39:18.517 --> 00:39:28.177 The learning is embedded in your learning communities, in your co-planning days, in the conversations you're having in the hallway during passing time. 00:39:28.837 --> 00:39:32.417 That is, is what I think should change in professional learning. 00:39:33.337 --> 00:39:45.727 And then finally, the last thing that should really change is that we don't have the up and out mentality of in order to get more opportunity, I have to leave something I love 00:39:48.873 --> 00:39:57.113 Gene Tavernetti: One of the things that, this is tangential, you know, I interview, I have a chance to meet and interview a lot of outstanding teachers. 00:39:57.963 --> 00:40:02.873 And at the end when we're done recording, I'll just ask them, I said, "How long are you gonna be in the classroom? 00:40:03.233 --> 00:40:04.843 I mean, you have so much talent. 00:40:04.843 --> 00:40:05.943 You are so articulate. 00:40:06.873 --> 00:40:15.263 You- what you need to be sharing what you're talking about." And and then I follow up that question with, "Do you do work in your district? 00:40:15.863 --> 00:40:23.153 Do the people in your district even know what you do?" And it's funny, there are so many that say, "I don't tell anybody what I do. 00:40:23.423 --> 00:40:25.273 I don't want my staff to know." 00:40:25.273 --> 00:40:30.843 And what was Jared Corbath talked about what the tall poppy syndrome- Yes … you know? 00:40:30.843 --> 00:40:32.633 That they just, you know, and I know that. 00:40:32.633 --> 00:40:41.613 I've been around schools a long time, and, you know, s- some principal will want to share how successful a new teacher has been doing something. 00:40:41.653 --> 00:40:46.403 Say no, you're g-," that, that teacher will be will never come back from that. 00:40:46.673 --> 00:40:49.103 So, is that an issue? 00:40:49.303 --> 00:41:08.523 Or l- let me say, let me, my, what I really wanna know is do teachers, do you have teachers like that, and do they have opportunities either to present in the district to do your PD differently because it's gonna be going on, and/or are they recognized and allowed to do some PD outside the district? 00:41:09.213 --> 00:41:12.273 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So we encourage our teachers to do that. 00:41:12.483 --> 00:41:18.967 I think- It's been a regrowth process over the course of the past five years. 00:41:19.327 --> 00:41:29.837 I do think the pandemic kind of pulled the rug out from everybody, at least in our district, in terms of the switch to doing everything online and remote and stuff. 00:41:29.917 --> 00:41:40.407 I do think it rattled some people in terms of their confidence in sharing because our academic results tanked. 00:41:41.387 --> 00:41:42.137 Tanked. 00:41:42.677 --> 00:42:03.477 And people started to feel what do I have to share?" I'll be frank, our middle school was in the bottom 5% of the state, and it was such a hard pill for everyone to swallow, and it rattled our confidence. 00:42:04.097 --> 00:42:09.857 And I'm very proud of my teachers because you're usually on that list for a minimum of three years. 00:42:10.447 --> 00:42:12.857 We got off the list in one because of them. 00:42:13.467 --> 00:42:32.517 And so the recovery of their confidence, we are just starting to see them get that spark of, "I have something I wanna share. Come to my classroom." I think about my middle school math department that has… I mean, you should come see them. 00:42:32.837 --> 00:42:37.127 What they are doing is nothing short of incredible. 00:42:37.727 --> 00:42:39.657 And the results are bearing it out. 00:42:41.517 --> 00:43:00.747 We are hosting a summer summit, a three-day summit to strengthen core instruction, and I have all these teachers that wanna present at the summit and it's really the first time they've really taken to that in, in five years. 00:43:00.917 --> 00:43:03.637 I- they used to do it all the time, and I, and this is my fifth year. 00:43:03.847 --> 00:43:05.987 I know they did it all the time before I got there. 00:43:06.447 --> 00:43:12.697 But they're just feeling that, that confidence and that strength again. 00:43:13.167 --> 00:43:14.297 And I've been waiting. 00:43:14.317 --> 00:43:19.327 I've been waiting for it- … because they're so good, Gene. 00:43:19.377 --> 00:43:32.907 These teachers are so good that I have this teacher who is in her third or fourth year ever- She stood up and gave a presentation to the board about what she's doing in her classroom. 00:43:32.907 --> 00:43:41.567 She did this last week or the week before, and she was so nervous, and I said, "You're gonna be great." And she was and I got a thank you card from her yesterday. 00:43:41.567 --> 00:43:42.557 It's why it's on my mind. 00:43:43.037 --> 00:43:57.617 Once they realize that they do good work, and it's been measured and someone else has seen it and they are valued, that goes a heck of a long way into making them people who wanna share. 00:43:57.777 --> 00:44:17.407 I have this other teacher in our high school who we had a student who struggled with severe dyslexia, Jane, and this teacher took it upon herself to learn how to deliver a structured literacy lesson, multisensory, to help this student. 00:44:18.337 --> 00:44:23.827 And the student said to this teacher, "This is the first thing that's ever worked for me." 00:44:25.647 --> 00:44:35.297 I can't tell you how different that teacher is from before that comment to after that comment. 00:44:36.017 --> 00:44:38.197 And it's things like that. 00:44:38.257 --> 00:44:39.757 It's not this credential. 00:44:40.347 --> 00:44:41.497 It's not a title. 00:44:41.967 --> 00:44:43.147 It's things like that. 00:44:43.207 --> 00:44:45.487 It's getting ourselves off that watch list. 00:44:45.497 --> 00:44:48.167 It's a student saying, "This is the one thing that's worked for me." 00:44:49.067 --> 00:44:52.517 That's what changes a building. 00:44:52.577 --> 00:44:58.447 And as a leader, we have to create the conditions for those things to happen 00:45:02.353 --> 00:45:05.643 Gene Tavernetti: I'm gonna talk just v- a final question about the grant itself. 00:45:05.713 --> 00:45:11.693 I mean, any- anytime you get a grant, you know, there's, you know, there's some sort of evaluation process. 00:45:12.193 --> 00:45:20.943 What is… What are they looking for with regards to evaluation, and is it the same… I mean, many times it's how many teachers did you do? 00:45:20.953 --> 00:45:22.363 How many people went to the training? 00:45:23.023 --> 00:45:30.023 H- what are they asking for in their evaluation for them to be satisfied versus what you guys want? 00:45:30.583 --> 00:45:31.663 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So it's fascinating. 00:45:31.733 --> 00:45:42.613 So again, this isn't a Department of Education grant, it's a Department of Labor grant, so the expectations are totally different, which it literally is learning a new language. 00:45:42.943 --> 00:45:52.583 So Department of Labor, their goal is to increase the amount of apprentices, and for those apprentices to earn more money 00:45:54.625 --> 00:46:04.505 So as long as I accomplish those two things, which is why I need the graduate credits, which is why, like the Department of Labor is very pleased with that. 00:46:04.895 --> 00:46:16.935 Whereas a Department of Education grant is more centered on student results whether it's measured through teacher effectiveness or test scores or things like that. 00:46:16.945 --> 00:46:18.745 That's very Department of Education. 00:46:19.325 --> 00:46:24.705 Department of Labor is all about increased salary and increased apprenticeships. 00:46:26.085 --> 00:46:37.005 Gene Tavernetti: So if you were gonna advise somebody who was interested after listening to this, would they, would you advise them to take a look at what's happening with the Department of Labor in their states or- 00:46:37.015 --> 00:46:37.555 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yes. 00:46:37.855 --> 00:46:38.255 Gene Tavernetti: Okay. 00:46:38.705 --> 00:46:39.445 Anthony Fitzpatrick: I really would. 00:46:39.465 --> 00:46:55.335 I'll tell you, we know that education funding is in an interesting place, and what the Department of Labor showed me was that there is money out there that you can use. 00:46:55.395 --> 00:47:07.445 There was a grant that just occurred yesterday and we're not eligible for it, but it was increasing opportunities for female apprentices in high income sectors. 00:47:08.365 --> 00:47:24.385 And I was like, "Wow this seems like a really great opportunity." It doesn't fit for a school, but I'm thinking, "What other industries out there could benefit from this?" Or are there career and technical education programs in high school that could benefit from this? 00:47:24.405 --> 00:47:33.595 There, there is some real opportunity if you f- if you think creatively about what the grant is expecting. 00:47:33.905 --> 00:47:39.725 I don't think anyone hears lead teacher apprentice and thinks Department of Labor. 00:47:41.015 --> 00:47:41.505 Gene Tavernetti: Right. 00:47:41.865 --> 00:47:42.315 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Right? 00:47:42.645 --> 00:47:47.585 And I think that's why we're the only district that's doing this, is because like, well, that's an apprenticeship. 00:47:49.435 --> 00:47:53.295 I can get money to do this and I'm gonna write it again. 00:47:53.925 --> 00:47:55.115 I'll write it until I retire. 00:47:55.845 --> 00:48:00.945 Gene Tavernetti: So you mentioned a couple times that this supports the culture that you've been working on. 00:48:01.555 --> 00:48:07.955 It seemed to me that a warning to districts would be, "Don't think this is gonna change your culture." No, it will not. 00:48:07.955 --> 00:48:09.065 This is not a place to start. 00:48:09.365 --> 00:48:09.675 Anthony Fitzpatrick: No. 00:48:09.685 --> 00:48:10.025 Gene Tavernetti: Or is it? 00:48:10.025 --> 00:48:10.555 What, what- It's not a place to 00:48:10.795 --> 00:48:11.005 Anthony Fitzpatrick: start. 00:48:11.175 --> 00:48:11.525 Gene Tavernetti: Okay. 00:48:11.775 --> 00:48:12.155 Okay. 00:48:12.305 --> 00:48:19.265 So what would be like some prerequisites that you would… If you were advising somebody, what would you l- what would you warn them about, or? 00:48:19.385 --> 00:48:25.385 Anthony Fitzpatrick: I would say the first thing that we did was we reduced paperwork for teachers. 00:48:25.625 --> 00:48:35.695 That was actually a Department of Education grant that we got, and the whole focus was we need to retain teachers and save them from burnout. 00:48:35.735 --> 00:48:37.105 What's one way to do that? 00:48:37.135 --> 00:48:43.065 And my perspective was, well, we have to reduce the amount of paperwork teachers are doing that I know no one reads. 00:48:43.565 --> 00:48:45.205 So I was lucky. 00:48:45.445 --> 00:48:53.455 I worked for the Department of Education, and I'm ashamed to say that I was responsible for creating a lot of that paperwork that people had to fill out. 00:48:54.325 --> 00:49:05.705 But on the flip side, I also then understood where it's asking us to do this, but it's not asking us to fill out this form in triplicate. 00:49:06.415 --> 00:49:12.385 How can I simplify this, still meet the letter of the law, but take something off of teachers' plates? 00:49:12.745 --> 00:49:16.765 And so that's what I started three years ago. 00:49:17.285 --> 00:49:31.745 Let's start with whittling down all the extra so that teachers can focus on instruction, because you can't build a teacher leader if the job is covered up by all of this nonsense. 00:49:32.495 --> 00:49:33.435 Whittle it down. 00:49:33.955 --> 00:49:36.755 Give educators exactly what they want. 00:49:36.805 --> 00:49:40.395 They're telling us what they want, "Just let me teach." "Okay. 00:49:40.855 --> 00:49:42.605 I'm going to let you teach. 00:49:42.625 --> 00:49:47.575 I will handle everything." So that's what we did. 00:49:47.955 --> 00:49:52.595 And so when we got this grant money, it doesn't take any money to reduce paperwork. 00:49:52.895 --> 00:49:54.645 Just tell people, "Don't fill out this form." 00:49:55.355 --> 00:50:02.085 But what we did with the money was start to provide these extra collaborative periods. 00:50:02.095 --> 00:50:05.485 I paid for our substitutes. 00:50:06.135 --> 00:50:08.185 So okay, I want co-planning days. 00:50:08.215 --> 00:50:12.535 I'm gonna use this grant money to pay for our substitutes so that I can pull the department. 00:50:13.115 --> 00:50:18.315 I'm not eating out of the local budget, and our educators will have the time and space to collaborate. 00:50:18.795 --> 00:50:26.805 The theory of action is that with four days of solid planning, the 176 days left go better 00:50:29.963 --> 00:50:30.553 Gene Tavernetti: So when y- yeah. 00:50:30.553 --> 00:50:30.573 Go on. 00:50:30.573 --> 00:50:36.133 When you had a meeting to talk about less paperwork, did you exclude the special ed folks from the meetings? 00:50:36.533 --> 00:50:37.933 Or I'm just kidding. 00:50:38.113 --> 00:50:38.613 I'm just kidding. 00:50:38.663 --> 00:50:43.003 Well- did you actually… Were you actually able to reduce paperwork for them as well? 00:50:43.343 --> 00:50:43.773 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yes. 00:50:44.103 --> 00:50:44.393 Gene Tavernetti: Okay. 00:50:44.473 --> 00:50:44.743 Yes. 00:50:45.133 --> 00:50:53.993 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Well, I mean, you're never gonna get rid of the PLAFPs, you're never gonna get rid of the progress monitoring, but I mean, we did streamline how to fill those things out. 00:50:54.003 --> 00:50:55.923 We came up with templates and stuff like that. 00:50:56.103 --> 00:51:01.023 But the real lift was frankly in the educator evaluation paperwork. 00:51:01.723 --> 00:51:09.363 So it looks different in every state, but the goal setting things, in New Jersey we call them SGOs, other states call them SLOs and things like that. 00:51:10.223 --> 00:51:19.173 We took that off the plate of the teachers I wrote them all of them, all 180 some of them. 00:51:20.273 --> 00:51:24.703 You know me in an office with a can of Diet Coke and Enya playing in the background. 00:51:25.243 --> 00:51:30.213 I did that because we did a shared school achievement goal. 00:51:31.063 --> 00:51:33.303 Okay, then I don't need all of you to write this. 00:51:33.363 --> 00:51:33.823 Gene Tavernetti: Right. 00:51:33.893 --> 00:51:34.133 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Right. 00:51:34.143 --> 00:51:34.583 I'll write it. 00:51:34.713 --> 00:51:40.653 You do two clicks, put it in your portal, and if our school is doing better, we all benefit from it. 00:51:41.093 --> 00:51:47.823 So they voluntarily bought into that, and that created, that was the seed of trust, the professional development plan. 00:51:48.283 --> 00:51:50.513 What goals do you have for your professional learning? 00:51:50.783 --> 00:51:54.103 You can write your own if you want, but here's one. 00:51:54.473 --> 00:51:54.833 Gene Tavernetti: Yeah. 00:51:55.483 --> 00:51:55.633 Okay. 00:51:55.633 --> 00:51:56.363 Anthony Fitzpatrick: They're like, "Okay." 00:51:58.233 --> 00:51:58.733 Gene Tavernetti: All right. 00:51:58.733 --> 00:52:01.683 Well, you know, again I am very interested in this. 00:52:01.683 --> 00:52:02.533 Lots of questions. 00:52:02.583 --> 00:52:05.443 But let's move on to t- tell us about your new book, 00:52:05.633 --> 00:52:06.463 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Su- sure. 00:52:07.643 --> 00:52:30.043 So, I, I-- because I am the assistant superintendent of two school districts, one is pre-K through 6 and one is 7 through 12, I had to think around what a cohesive literacy continuum looked like because there were structural walls that I had to contend with. 00:52:30.793 --> 00:53:03.913 So I wrote The Evolving Science of Reading to not only acknowledge that the science itself changes and gets better and gets more refined, but also that for our students, the science evolves insofar as the science of reading has been adopted at least politically as an early childhood initiative, heavy into the phonics, heavy into the decoding, and I don't take any issue with that. 00:53:05.053 --> 00:53:11.683 But there hasn't been a lot of support given to what happens to students after they can decode. 00:53:12.643 --> 00:53:14.463 Comprehension is part of the science. 00:53:15.323 --> 00:53:16.993 Morphology is part of the science. 00:53:17.073 --> 00:53:18.753 Syntax is part of the science. 00:53:19.183 --> 00:53:31.953 And so the book really is a call to arms that we have to support the science of reading or structured literacy or evidence-based literacy, whatever term people wanna use. 00:53:32.373 --> 00:53:39.363 We have to support that throughout the whole experience, K through 12. 00:53:39.923 --> 00:53:47.183 It can't be something that we focus on in grades kindergarten through third and then just let it go. 00:53:47.643 --> 00:53:49.493 Text gets more complicated. 00:53:49.723 --> 00:53:52.213 The expectations get more complicated. 00:53:53.193 --> 00:54:03.519 If we use the imagery of the Scarborough's Reading Rope, and all the strands are separate in early childhood and then they weave together- Well, sure. 00:54:04.059 --> 00:54:10.089 Things start to connect, but they get tighter and tighter as the text gets more complicated and complicated. 00:54:10.599 --> 00:54:16.599 So we have to support our students in advanced text complexity. 00:54:17.209 --> 00:54:21.519 And so that was the reason behind writing the book. 00:54:22.289 --> 00:54:25.859 Gene Tavernetti: I mean, it sounds so important. 00:54:26.339 --> 00:54:28.609 I mean, because again people don't think about it. 00:54:28.679 --> 00:54:33.019 They think about, oh, they didn't get, They're not at grade level of third grade, they're not at grade level of fourth grade. 00:54:33.629 --> 00:54:35.179 But it becomes more complicated. 00:54:35.769 --> 00:54:36.399 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Absolutely. 00:54:36.399 --> 00:54:37.559 Gene Tavernetti: It's a lifelong thing. 00:54:38.629 --> 00:54:40.579 Oh, Anthony, this has been a joy. 00:54:40.609 --> 00:54:42.149 You have any questions for me? 00:54:42.389 --> 00:54:43.059 Anthony Fitzpatrick: I do. 00:54:43.089 --> 00:54:43.629 I do. 00:54:44.179 --> 00:54:57.639 So in, in studying some of your things I sense that one of your core philosophies is that given the right environment and support, everyone can succeed. 00:54:57.789 --> 00:55:01.449 And we talk a lot about creating that environment for our students. 00:55:02.299 --> 00:55:19.747 But as someone who, who- consults and ad- and advises, what's the most critical element a central office or building principal has to put in place to create that right environment so that the adults can succeed and grow? 00:55:21.127 --> 00:55:28.357 Gene Tavernetti: Well, it… Let's go back to one of your answers that you talked about and you talked about the one and done staff development. 00:55:28.847 --> 00:55:30.967 I have a friend who calls it the song and dance. 00:55:31.857 --> 00:55:32.247 You know? 00:55:32.727 --> 00:55:50.307 And I know districts that they hire the most famous people they can get to come in to do this one day and then they all s- you know, and then their s- district administrator or principal will introduce them, and they'll say, "Oh, we're so lucky today to have this. 00:55:50.317 --> 00:55:54.557 He's gonna share some things that you could put in your tool belt." You know what? 00:55:54.627 --> 00:55:55.167 No. 00:55:55.467 --> 00:55:55.637 No. 00:55:56.167 --> 00:56:05.357 We need m- my thought is that, and based on my experience, is that there needs to be a focus, and it sounds like that's what you guys are doing. 00:56:05.367 --> 00:56:09.457 There's an instructional focus that everybody knows. 00:56:10.277 --> 00:56:19.257 So when we go and do a training, we make sure that the administrators are in the room so that all the teachers know we're hearing the same thing. 00:56:19.697 --> 00:56:21.777 We ask for questions. 00:56:21.827 --> 00:56:29.207 We ask for people to to push back in front of the administrators so that everybody is on the same page. 00:56:29.407 --> 00:56:48.947 When we do coaching, we want administrators in the room, and when we talk about coaching, we found, 20 years ago, that there are a lot of things that s- that teachers need to know, like how to do transitions, you know, how to get kids in the room. 00:56:49.057 --> 00:56:56.267 All of those things are important, but the thing that was lacking was how to how to design a coherent lesson. 00:56:57.457 --> 00:57:04.667 And now, because we have all of these other ways to access lessons, you know, you can go to AI you know? 00:57:04.827 --> 00:57:09.317 But you still have to be able to evaluate that lesson. 00:57:09.607 --> 00:57:11.727 It, you can't just pull anything off. 00:57:11.777 --> 00:57:13.607 I mean, textbooks are no better. 00:57:13.917 --> 00:57:22.837 You know, you have to be able to take a look at what the textbook has provided, what does coherent instruction look like, and now I have to make some decisions. 00:57:23.497 --> 00:57:26.787 So- Everybody has to be on board. 00:57:27.147 --> 00:57:29.187 That is not, that doesn't change year to year. 00:57:30.187 --> 00:57:36.917 You know, like, like you said in five years, you know, I want everybody to articulate that and operationalize that. 00:57:37.287 --> 00:57:40.997 To, to me, that is that's what I focus on. 00:57:41.257 --> 00:57:46.557 Now, the environment, you know, a lot of times, you know, people talk about the environment. 00:57:46.557 --> 00:57:50.377 "Oh, is the classroom welcoming?" And, you know, that's all, I- that's good. 00:57:50.477 --> 00:57:55.387 I don't worry about the affect as much except during the lesson. 00:57:56.157 --> 00:58:06.767 I want I want good … I want kids to be so happy and so proud that they were able to learn, and then they g- then the next day they're gonna be ready to learn again. 00:58:07.147 --> 00:58:13.787 So that's kind of the way that I think about environment that this effective instruction, that's a baseline. 00:58:14.297 --> 00:58:23.447 If you don't have that, if you don't have that in every classroom I can't be a teacher leader and go to the PLC and talk about something that nobody else knows about. 00:58:23.707 --> 00:58:24.597 So that's 00:58:25.177 --> 00:58:29.457 Well, you got me going on a soapbox but to me- … that, that is so, so important. 00:58:29.727 --> 00:58:37.677 And the reality is, again, I've been doing this for 20, 23 years, and I'm an explicit instruction advocate. 00:58:38.247 --> 00:58:42.807 There are so many people who are, but it's one of those things, it's like a Seinfeld. 00:58:42.807 --> 00:58:43.987 I don't know if you're a Seinfeld, 00:58:44.057 --> 00:58:44.767 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Absolutely 00:58:44.907 --> 00:58:50.912 Gene Tavernetti: Out- It's like, okay the kids need to learn this, and so yada yada, teach the lesson. 00:58:51.922 --> 00:58:52.312 You know? 00:58:52.412 --> 00:58:54.242 But what's the most important part? 00:58:54.752 --> 00:58:54.962 The yada. 00:58:54.962 --> 00:58:55.042 The yada. 00:58:55.042 --> 00:58:55.792 How do you do it? 00:58:56.142 --> 00:58:58.032 And so there's just so many assumptions. 00:58:58.032 --> 00:59:01.202 "Oh, yeah, I do explicit instruction. Oh, yeah, I do this, I do that." 00:59:01.502 --> 00:59:03.602 And so that's my answer. 00:59:03.772 --> 00:59:07.022 Everybody has a baseline of explicit instruction. 00:59:07.372 --> 00:59:08.412 It's the school. 00:59:08.602 --> 00:59:11.202 A new teacher gets hired, says, "This is who we are. 00:59:11.632 --> 00:59:12.872 This is what we do. 00:59:13.512 --> 00:59:18.752 We hope you, you know, you could join us, and if this is not for you, no heartache. 00:59:18.852 --> 00:59:23.920 It's, you know-" That's right. "… go find a place that works." So- That's my thought. 00:59:24.830 --> 00:59:41.690 Anthony Fitzpatrick: I just got I got a, an email solicitation from a textbook company this morning asking me how I was doing in my path toward inquiry-based instruction, and I'm like, "You barked up the wrong tree." 00:59:44.740 --> 00:59:45.000 Gene Tavernetti: Yeah. 00:59:45.140 --> 00:59:45.330 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yeah. 00:59:45.330 --> 00:59:46.990 I'm like, "I didn't realize that's what I was doing." 00:59:47.520 --> 00:59:47.940 Gene Tavernetti: Yeah. 00:59:48.190 --> 00:59:49.160 It… Well, yeah. 00:59:49.540 --> 00:59:55.520 And I think that's a, th- that's a, an issue that I knew about before I consulted. 00:59:55.910 --> 01:00:07.880 But the folks, the textbook people, the people, you know, even all the all the digital platforms, there's money behind them, and their marketing is so good. 01:00:07.900 --> 01:00:08.520 Anthony Fitzpatrick: So good. 01:00:08.710 --> 01:00:10.150 Gene Tavernetti: You know, it, it's so good. 01:00:10.390 --> 01:00:16.010 And it's hard to get somebody excited about explicit instruction. 01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:26.612 Anthony Fitzpatrick: But I, it's one thing I say to people, "If these tools worked-" Why are we in the situation we're in right now? 01:00:27.162 --> 01:00:36.022 If these adaptive platforms and if… Gene, if that were the solution we've been in this now long enough- 01:00:36.442 --> 01:00:36.692 Gene Tavernetti: Yeah 01:00:36.782 --> 01:00:41.842 Anthony Fitzpatrick: that w- we shouldn't be careening off a cliff in our reading scores. 01:00:42.562 --> 01:00:46.662 Like, the explicit instruction is where it's at. 01:00:47.202 --> 01:00:49.332 And truthfully. 01:00:49.712 --> 01:00:54.512 Gene Tavernetti: Yeah, and I think because it puts the teacher at the center of making decisions. 01:00:54.542 --> 01:00:55.032 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yes. 01:00:55.032 --> 01:00:55.252 Yes. 01:00:55.272 --> 01:00:58.412 Gene Tavernetti: I mean, I think that AI is great as an assist- 01:00:58.622 --> 01:00:59.112 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Sure 01:00:59.252 --> 01:01:04.382 … Gene Tavernetti: but you still have to, you still have to make those decisions in the classroom, so. 01:01:04.462 --> 01:01:05.132 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Absolutely. 01:01:05.872 --> 01:01:06.882 Gene Tavernetti: So that's my answer. 01:01:06.912 --> 01:01:11.952 Any last words of advice for us, Anthony, before we say goodbye? 01:01:12.602 --> 01:01:16.752 Anthony Fitzpatrick: No, I think if we really want to professionalize or 01:01:19.512 --> 01:01:26.502 re-professionalize the teaching career or profession… I'm using the word profession too much, so I try to use something else. 01:01:27.552 --> 01:01:54.912 Then these enhanced opportunities, whether it's an apprenticeship program like the one we're running or some other sort of opportunity, we have to find ways to respect deep knowledge for teachers, provide the opportunities for them, and provide the reward for getting that knowledge and doing that work. 01:01:55.112 --> 01:02:06.902 And so I'm thrilled that we are kind of the first ones out on this, but what I really look forward to is who's gonna take the ball next. 01:02:07.052 --> 01:02:13.332 Who's gonna figure out a different way to do this that's even better than what we're doing? 01:02:13.382 --> 01:02:21.172 I want this to be a line of thinking that grows and evolves and helps the profession. 01:02:22.152 --> 01:02:24.412 Gene Tavernetti: Dr. Fitzpatrick, thank you so much. 01:02:24.472 --> 01:02:27.842 And it was a joy meeting you, and hopefully we can talk soon. 01:02:28.182 --> 01:02:29.272 Anthony Fitzpatrick: Yes, I'd like that, Gene. 01:02:29.272 --> 01:02:29.752 Thank you. 01:02:30.518 --> 01:02:33.158 Gene Tavernetti: If you're enjoying these podcasts, tell a friend. 01:02:33.458 --> 01:02:39.028 Also, please leave a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. 01:02:39.718 --> 01:02:49.798 You can follow me on BlueSky at gTabernetti, on Twitter, x at gTabernetti, and you can learn more about me and the work I do at my website, BlueSky. 01:02:50.208 --> 01:02:50.638 Tesscg. 01:02:51.628 --> 01:03:06.998 com, that's T E S S C G dot com, where you will also find information about ordering my books, Teach Fast, Focus Adaptable Structure Teaching, and Maximizing the Impact of Coaching Cycles.