WEBVTT 00:00:00.230 --> 00:00:03.030 Matt Abrahams: While most communication situations are not life 00:00:03.030 --> 00:00:05.520 and death, sometimes they can be. 00:00:06.030 --> 00:00:08.880 We can all learn to handle the pressure when under the gun. 00:00:09.930 --> 00:00:13.380 My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at 00:00:13.380 --> 00:00:15.330 Stanford Graduate School of Business. 00:00:15.570 --> 00:00:19.230 Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:00:20.264 --> 00:00:24.255 As part of our four part miniseries on spontaneous speaking, we introduced you 00:00:24.255 --> 00:00:28.814 to a number of coaches whose jobs require successful, in the moment communication. 00:00:29.265 --> 00:00:32.894 So many of our listeners found value in our coaches' advice that we wanted 00:00:32.894 --> 00:00:36.765 to provide you with an opportunity to hear our complete interviews. 00:00:37.125 --> 00:00:40.004 So today I am excited for you to learn from Chris Voss. 00:00:40.425 --> 00:00:44.805 Chris is a former FBI lead international kidnapping and hostage negotiator. 00:00:45.450 --> 00:00:49.110 He's the CEO of the Black Swan Group and co-author of Never 00:00:49.110 --> 00:00:52.950 Split the Difference: Negotiating As If Your Life Depended On It. 00:00:53.430 --> 00:00:55.710 Let's jump right in and learn from Chris. 00:00:58.860 --> 00:00:59.610 Chris, welcome. 00:00:59.610 --> 00:01:01.440 I look forward to our conversation. 00:01:01.860 --> 00:01:02.460 Chris Voss: Thank you. 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:05.700 Yeah, so do I. Let's, uh, let's go on an exploration here. 00:01:06.090 --> 00:01:06.660 Matt Abrahams: Alright. 00:01:06.960 --> 00:01:11.730 So for over twenty years you were a lead FBI hostage negotiator. 00:01:11.789 --> 00:01:15.330 What trainings and experience led you into that role? 00:01:16.080 --> 00:01:19.380 Chris Voss: When I specifically began to train for it was when 00:01:19.380 --> 00:01:23.700 I volunteered on a crisis slash suicide hotline in New York City. 00:01:24.450 --> 00:01:28.920 I was told the best preparation was to volunteer on a suicide hotline, and 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:30.840 as it turned out, that was the case. 00:01:32.100 --> 00:01:36.960 And then after that, you go to the FBI's two week school at Quantico. 00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:42.270 If you're a hostage negotiator anywhere on earth, the training at Quantico is 00:01:42.270 --> 00:01:44.490 one of the trainings you want to go to. 00:01:45.060 --> 00:01:45.660 And I loved it. 00:01:45.660 --> 00:01:48.840 And I stayed volunteering on the crisis hotline for a 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:50.130 couple more years after that. 00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:53.670 And I did a lot of teaching, but a lot of it is then self-directed 00:01:53.670 --> 00:01:57.975 and recognizing it's a perishable skill and not letting it perish. 00:01:58.365 --> 00:02:01.305 Matt Abrahams: What were one or two of the key things you learned from 00:02:01.305 --> 00:02:04.995 the, the work you did with the suicide hotline and, and maybe even Quantico? 00:02:04.995 --> 00:02:07.455 What were a couple of the skills they taught you that you think were 00:02:07.455 --> 00:02:09.854 invaluable to the role you have? 00:02:10.215 --> 00:02:13.305 Chris Voss: What I learned was emotional intelligence is an 00:02:13.305 --> 00:02:15.825 insane accelerator to outcomes. 00:02:16.515 --> 00:02:19.095 You know, we speculate that the application of empathy 00:02:19.095 --> 00:02:23.230 accelerates you to wherever you're gonna go fourteen times faster. 00:02:23.720 --> 00:02:26.730 And I kind of got an inkling of that on a suicide hotline when 00:02:26.730 --> 00:02:29.730 they first said there's a twenty minute time limit on all calls. 00:02:29.850 --> 00:02:30.960 Like, you gotta be kidding me. 00:02:30.990 --> 00:02:35.910 There are anecdotal stories all the time of people being on a phone overnight, 00:02:35.910 --> 00:02:38.490 staying up all night trying to talk people outta killin' themselves, how 00:02:38.490 --> 00:02:39.870 can you do this in twenty minutes? 00:02:40.290 --> 00:02:42.030 And they said, well, as a matter of fact, if you're doing it 00:02:42.030 --> 00:02:43.320 right, it won't take that long. 00:02:44.010 --> 00:02:45.570 And that ended up being the case. 00:02:45.570 --> 00:02:48.330 And you know, I learned emotional intelligence, they called it 00:02:48.330 --> 00:02:50.280 reflective listening at the time. 00:02:50.820 --> 00:02:52.440 This is early 1990s. 00:02:52.440 --> 00:02:55.410 It's derivative of a psychologist named Carl Rogers. 00:02:56.010 --> 00:02:59.940 But I remember using it on the hotline thinking like, uh, if this is this 00:02:59.940 --> 00:03:03.750 effective with people in crisis, why doesn't everybody in my life deserve it? 00:03:03.870 --> 00:03:08.640 Why don't the, my family, my friends, my colleagues, people I arrest 00:03:09.660 --> 00:03:11.700 deserve empathy is an FBI agent. 00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:16.095 And in point of fact, I started applying it on everything that I did. 00:03:16.785 --> 00:03:19.635 Matt Abrahams: You've negotiated in incredibly high pressure 00:03:19.635 --> 00:03:22.005 situations where life is on the line. 00:03:22.425 --> 00:03:24.705 How do you stay calm and collected? 00:03:25.275 --> 00:03:28.965 Chris Voss: You know, anything that looks easy, that somebody makes look 00:03:28.965 --> 00:03:30.495 easy, they put a lot of time into. 00:03:31.545 --> 00:03:33.825 I really started on the suicide hotline. 00:03:34.845 --> 00:03:37.755 They would put us on a line while we were still in training, 00:03:37.755 --> 00:03:39.195 about halfway through training. 00:03:39.675 --> 00:03:44.145 They taught us enough to put us on a line supervised, there's somebody 00:03:44.145 --> 00:03:47.895 right there, take the phone outta your hand if you start saying stupid 00:03:47.895 --> 00:03:49.845 stuff to the person on the other end. 00:03:50.055 --> 00:03:55.335 Which is entirely possible because advice is usually counterproductive. 00:03:55.605 --> 00:03:57.645 It's short circuits their thinking process. 00:03:57.975 --> 00:04:01.515 So the first time that I was on the line, I remember saying, 00:04:01.755 --> 00:04:02.985 hello, this is helpline. 00:04:03.855 --> 00:04:04.605 Just like that. 00:04:04.665 --> 00:04:07.125 And a supervisor said, your tone of voice is great. 00:04:07.215 --> 00:04:07.845 That was great. 00:04:09.299 --> 00:04:11.160 So I thought, okay, well I gotta repeat that. 00:04:11.700 --> 00:04:16.800 You break it down into small pieces, you practice it live, and then you 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:19.290 practice it in small stakes interactions. 00:04:19.290 --> 00:04:22.770 I mean, I gotta practice these skills today, that, it's not bike riding. 00:04:23.415 --> 00:04:26.505 I gotta practice every day or my skills deteriorate. 00:04:26.955 --> 00:04:30.105 Matt Abrahams: So it's the notion of practice and finding opportunities that 00:04:30.105 --> 00:04:34.245 are low stakes to really work on that and, and to keep those skills fresh. 00:04:34.425 --> 00:04:38.865 And it sounds like, at least early on, you had a direct mentor sitting there giving 00:04:38.865 --> 00:04:42.175 you feedback and advice as you went, and that's, that's also important, I believe. 00:04:43.150 --> 00:04:47.109 Before you go into a negotiation or a high stake situation like that, do 00:04:47.109 --> 00:04:49.090 you do anything to prepare yourself? 00:04:49.090 --> 00:04:51.099 Do you do some deep breathing, some centering? 00:04:51.099 --> 00:04:55.270 What, what do you do to prepare when you walk into one of these situations? 00:04:55.659 --> 00:04:59.799 Chris Voss: I do a sort of daily prep because I never know when a high 00:04:59.799 --> 00:05:01.930 pressure situation's gonna come at me. 00:05:01.930 --> 00:05:07.180 So the cliches, the gratitude exercise first thing in the morning. 00:05:07.659 --> 00:05:13.245 The phraseology that, you know, this is happening for me, not to me. 00:05:13.245 --> 00:05:14.475 Calms you down in the moment. 00:05:14.535 --> 00:05:15.645 You gotta practice that. 00:05:15.885 --> 00:05:20.745 When I was on a, as a hostage negotiator, I had just relied on 00:05:20.745 --> 00:05:23.055 the process so much that I was good. 00:05:23.085 --> 00:05:26.325 You know, I don't know sure how this is gonna come out, but the, the best outcome 00:05:26.325 --> 00:05:31.665 is if I just follow the, the process that I know, you know, use the skills 00:05:31.845 --> 00:05:33.525 and, and, and let it go where it may. 00:05:34.155 --> 00:05:37.545 Matt Abrahams: So it sounds like there was a bit of a ritual to your practice. 00:05:37.575 --> 00:05:41.295 Uh, it sounds like you continue that practice, but it's really about, uh, 00:05:41.325 --> 00:05:45.555 relying on what you have done and know that you can get through it. 00:05:45.825 --> 00:05:49.035 When you're under pressure, how do you quickly gather information 00:05:49.035 --> 00:05:50.235 and adjust your approach? 00:05:50.235 --> 00:05:53.445 I mean, you, you constantly must be reading the circumstances 00:05:53.445 --> 00:05:54.620 and then making adjustments. 00:05:55.080 --> 00:05:58.485 Do you have things you use to help you make those decisions or are you 00:05:58.515 --> 00:06:00.315 using some kind of pattern recognition? 00:06:01.065 --> 00:06:03.165 Chris Voss: Your gut does the pattern recognition. 00:06:03.165 --> 00:06:04.695 It's not a conscious process. 00:06:04.935 --> 00:06:11.565 So when you get to the point where you can lean back enough to let your gut 00:06:11.595 --> 00:06:13.635 kick in, then you're gonna be fine. 00:06:14.085 --> 00:06:16.935 Matt Abrahams: Uh, many of us in these high stakes situations, clearly 00:06:16.935 --> 00:06:20.265 different than the high stakes situations you've lived through, we, 00:06:20.265 --> 00:06:21.915 we get in our head and we overthink. 00:06:22.095 --> 00:06:26.355 Do you have ways that help you turn down that volume of overthinking? 00:06:26.925 --> 00:06:31.635 Chris Voss: I'm reading Creativity Inc., by Ed Catmull, the guy who founded Pixar. 00:06:31.905 --> 00:06:38.115 And he says, you know, the overthinkers make mistakes at the same rate as the 00:06:38.115 --> 00:06:40.094 people that are quick to pull the trigger. 00:06:40.844 --> 00:06:43.784 It just takes 'em longer to make the mistakes 'cause they're overthinking it. 00:06:44.565 --> 00:06:48.135 And I thought that makes all the sense in the world. 00:06:48.135 --> 00:06:52.125 You know, the entrepreneurial organizations who are really operating 00:06:52.125 --> 00:06:56.085 on gut instinct, they say, you know, make the mistake now, gather 00:06:56.085 --> 00:06:57.794 the data, fail fast, move forward. 00:06:57.794 --> 00:06:59.414 You see it over and over and over again. 00:07:00.539 --> 00:07:04.620 It never even occurred to me that the overthinkers would 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:07.500 not be any more effective than the quick to pull the trigger. 00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:08.669 It would just take 'em longer. 00:07:08.669 --> 00:07:12.390 And that, and that insight in, in Ed's book just really sort of, 00:07:13.200 --> 00:07:16.560 uh, opened my eyes to the dangers, the perils of overthinking. 00:07:17.520 --> 00:07:19.800 Matt Abrahams: Let's talk a little bit more about that, when, when things 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:24.060 don't go as you expected them to go in the moment, are there ways in 00:07:24.060 --> 00:07:26.849 which you quickly adjust and adapt? 00:07:26.849 --> 00:07:30.630 Or do you just stay the course and keep things going forward even if it didn't 00:07:30.630 --> 00:07:32.849 happen or occur the way you wanted it to? 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.729 What do you do when things don't go the way you planned? 00:07:36.210 --> 00:07:39.289 Chris Voss: The first thing is to realize there is no course. 00:07:40.349 --> 00:07:45.330 If you only imagine there's one course, then you're gonna stick to it when all 00:07:45.330 --> 00:07:46.919 the data's telling you you're wrong. 00:07:47.969 --> 00:07:51.344 So in kidnapping negotiations, I'd show up in an embassy. 00:07:52.350 --> 00:07:53.880 And they'd say, how's this gonna work out? 00:07:53.880 --> 00:07:58.200 And it's gonna work out one of five ways, and we gotta go along 00:07:58.200 --> 00:07:59.520 for the ride, see which one it is. 00:07:59.940 --> 00:08:03.900 You know, that would keep me from getting married to a course. 00:08:04.770 --> 00:08:09.540 So to recognize that it's your desire to wanna think of one path, you're 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:13.380 already limiting yourself because never be so sure of what you want that 00:08:13.380 --> 00:08:14.640 you wouldn't take something better. 00:08:14.940 --> 00:08:18.060 If you can maintain that flexibility in a moment, then you're gonna do really well. 00:08:18.645 --> 00:08:21.165 Matt Abrahams: I think that is such important advice and insight 00:08:21.165 --> 00:08:22.995 that there is no one right way. 00:08:23.205 --> 00:08:27.705 There are many ways, and staying open and agile and curious is what allows you 00:08:27.705 --> 00:08:30.135 to adjust and adapt as things happen. 00:08:30.675 --> 00:08:31.275 Chris Voss: Amen. 00:08:31.665 --> 00:08:35.565 Matt Abrahams: What rules or guidelines do you follow in your messaging when 00:08:35.565 --> 00:08:37.455 you communicate in negotiations? 00:08:37.865 --> 00:08:37.995 Chris Voss: Yeah. 00:08:37.995 --> 00:08:38.855 in general terms. 00:08:39.085 --> 00:08:41.545 You know, he or she who talks most loses. 00:08:41.715 --> 00:08:43.215 If you're explaining, you're losing. 00:08:43.455 --> 00:08:46.590 You should probably be listening five times more when you're talking. 00:08:47.310 --> 00:08:47.700 Matt Abrahams: Right. 00:08:47.910 --> 00:08:52.980 And it's really about the understanding that what you are 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:56.730 saying or not saying has an impact in that moment on what's going on. 00:08:57.000 --> 00:09:00.120 I'd like to get into, if, if you don't mind, sharing some more 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.000 detail about two specific skills that you mentioned earlier. 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.310 You mentioned labeling and you mentioned mirroring. 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:09.510 Would you mind taking a moment to just share what each of those skills 00:09:09.510 --> 00:09:13.170 are and, and the value they bring to you in the work that you do? 00:09:14.070 --> 00:09:15.320 Chris Voss: Uh, the value I bring. 00:09:15.710 --> 00:09:15.890 Matt Abrahams: Yeah. 00:09:15.890 --> 00:09:19.095 The value of, of labeling and of mirroring. 00:09:19.785 --> 00:09:20.985 Chris Voss: All right, so I just mirrored you. 00:09:20.985 --> 00:09:22.305 Matt Abrahams: And I fell right for it. 00:09:23.685 --> 00:09:25.814 Chris Voss: Well, because it feels natural. 00:09:26.055 --> 00:09:29.175 Mirroring is, mirroring is a delightful skill, which is repeating, 00:09:29.714 --> 00:09:33.345 generally, the last one to three-ish words of what somebody has said. 00:09:33.405 --> 00:09:34.635 It could be one word. 00:09:34.905 --> 00:09:36.665 It really shouldn't be more than five. 00:09:37.375 --> 00:09:39.630 And it's just repeating them word for word. 00:09:40.140 --> 00:09:43.860 And in any given communication, and you touched on it a little bit before, 00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:45.210 you know what's said, what's unsaid. 00:09:45.540 --> 00:09:50.640 And the other side, what they hear is, oh, okay, he got what I wanted to say, 00:09:50.640 --> 00:09:52.860 but he needs a fuller explanation. 00:09:53.400 --> 00:09:56.940 And so you're drawn to it and you give fuller explanations. 00:09:56.940 --> 00:09:59.670 It's actually much more effective than saying to somebody, 00:09:59.670 --> 00:10:00.510 what did you mean by that? 00:10:00.915 --> 00:10:03.105 It doesn't require a lot of mental energy. 00:10:03.165 --> 00:10:08.025 The return of investment of what you said versus how much you hear is 00:10:08.025 --> 00:10:09.495 insane, and that's why they like it. 00:10:09.585 --> 00:10:12.615 'Cause I just gotta say three words and the other side will talk for ten minutes. 00:10:13.245 --> 00:10:20.220 Now, the label is just slapping a label on the dynamic or the 00:10:20.220 --> 00:10:22.140 emotion or a hidden dynamic. 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:26.430 Again, I'm coaching a client earlier and they got a vendor that they're dealing 00:10:26.430 --> 00:10:30.690 with who's gonna make all kind of excuses for why they couldn't get stuff done. 00:10:31.050 --> 00:10:34.890 And I said, well, the label here is, it sounds like you're 00:10:34.890 --> 00:10:36.660 telling me you're incompetent. 00:10:38.275 --> 00:10:40.380 And it's gotta be delivered just like that. 00:10:40.650 --> 00:10:43.650 I hesitated, you know, I did an upward inflection. 00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:45.120 I just, what are you telling me. 00:10:45.780 --> 00:10:51.225 If you're a professional, and you agreed on a job, and then you came 00:10:51.225 --> 00:10:54.825 back afterwards with all kinds of excuses, somewhere along the 00:10:54.825 --> 00:10:56.985 line, what you're telling me is you didn't know what you were doing. 00:10:57.045 --> 00:11:00.105 And the important thing about a label is it's gotta be a dynamic 00:11:00.105 --> 00:11:01.575 the other side introduces. 00:11:02.475 --> 00:11:03.855 You cannot introduce it. 00:11:04.575 --> 00:11:06.885 The other side has to introduce it, then it's fair game. 00:11:07.185 --> 00:11:10.275 Matt Abrahams: What's interesting to me, I mean you did a great job describing it, 00:11:10.275 --> 00:11:13.845 so I don't feel like I have to re-explain it, but what's interesting to me is 00:11:13.845 --> 00:11:20.550 how important the way in which you say your mirror or label plays out in it. 00:11:20.550 --> 00:11:23.670 So it's not just the words, it's the way you say those words. 00:11:23.670 --> 00:11:28.290 So that combination of nonverbal presence and the verbal presence matter in this. 00:11:28.349 --> 00:11:30.959 And a lot of us fixate on just the words. 00:11:31.140 --> 00:11:33.900 And what I'm hearing you say is it's much more than that. 00:11:34.199 --> 00:11:36.540 Chris Voss: Being in law enforcement, then I'm always gonna come up with 00:11:36.540 --> 00:11:42.060 law enforcement analogies, and so tone is like the rifling on a bullet. 00:11:42.479 --> 00:11:46.439 Now a bullet comes out of a barrel, and there are things inside of the barrel 00:11:46.439 --> 00:11:50.540 of a gun called lands and grooves that actually spin the bullet, so that when 00:11:50.540 --> 00:11:52.520 it comes out, it goes in a straight line. 00:11:52.520 --> 00:11:55.640 It's the same thing as when you throw a baseball, you spin the ball. 00:11:55.760 --> 00:11:58.940 A baseball pitch with no spin is called a knuckle ball, and that thing 00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:01.490 goes all over the place and nobody knows where the hell it's gonna land. 00:12:01.760 --> 00:12:06.380 And so for your words to hit the target, you know, the, the very label I used 00:12:06.380 --> 00:12:08.930 before I could say, it sounds like you're telling me you're incompetent. 00:12:09.420 --> 00:12:10.500 Now that's an insult. 00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:12.600 That tone of voice is an accusation. 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:13.530 It's insulting. 00:12:13.800 --> 00:12:17.870 But if I say, it sounds like you're telling me you're incompetent. 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.260 Same words, land a thousand percent different. 00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:24.599 Matt Abrahams: One of the things, Chris, I've really appreciated, is you've done 00:12:24.599 --> 00:12:28.199 a really nice job of using analogies, and analogies are really useful. 00:12:28.199 --> 00:12:30.990 While I don't know much about guns and bullets, it's very 00:12:30.990 --> 00:12:32.400 clear that spin matters. 00:12:33.030 --> 00:12:36.150 So before we end, I'd like to ask you three questions that I'm 00:12:36.150 --> 00:12:40.469 asking everybody who's part of this miniseries on spontaneous speaking. 00:12:40.530 --> 00:12:41.550 Are you up for doing that? 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:43.349 Chris Voss: Let's go for it. 00:12:43.770 --> 00:12:44.459 See what happens. 00:12:44.640 --> 00:12:48.780 Matt Abrahams: Chris, I'd love to know who is the communicator you admire and why? 00:12:49.400 --> 00:12:50.385 Chris Voss: Oprah Winfrey. 00:12:50.415 --> 00:12:50.660 Matt Abrahams: Tell me why. 00:12:51.435 --> 00:12:54.645 Chris Voss: So she has dealt with some of the most volatile people on planet Earth. 00:12:54.855 --> 00:12:59.175 I've had some very specific conversations relayed to me in detail 00:12:59.175 --> 00:13:02.475 where she has taken celebrities to the woodshed over their behavior. 00:13:02.685 --> 00:13:05.745 I mean, she has the ability to maintain relationships even 00:13:05.745 --> 00:13:07.095 with differences of opinion. 00:13:07.365 --> 00:13:08.205 I'm a big fan. 00:13:08.205 --> 00:13:08.955 I'm a huge fan. 00:13:09.645 --> 00:13:13.125 Matt Abrahams: Question number two, while those listening in likely aren't going to 00:13:13.125 --> 00:13:17.895 have to speak in situations like you do, uh, what advice would you give for them 00:13:17.895 --> 00:13:20.685 to speak better in the moment in general? 00:13:21.345 --> 00:13:22.395 Chris Voss: Just take your time. 00:13:22.814 --> 00:13:27.675 There, there's so much of an advantage while you're speaking to slow down a 00:13:27.675 --> 00:13:30.495 little, you know, let the moment play out. 00:13:31.515 --> 00:13:34.935 Some people take their time in speaking because they're determined to 00:13:34.935 --> 00:13:37.185 maintain control of the conversation. 00:13:37.305 --> 00:13:41.985 They'll only pause mid-sentence so they don't get interrupted. 00:13:42.015 --> 00:13:46.125 So slowing the conversation down, so you can absorb more information, so you 00:13:46.125 --> 00:13:49.755 can be more in the moment, is not the same as slowing down to stay in control. 00:13:50.250 --> 00:13:54.060 If you slow down to be more connected with somebody in the moment, to hear them, to 00:13:54.104 --> 00:13:58.185 make 'em feel heard, you give yourself time to analyze in the moment, you're 00:13:58.185 --> 00:13:59.535 gonna be a much better communicator. 00:13:59.834 --> 00:14:03.165 Matt Abrahams: This notion of pausing and slowing things down, I 00:14:03.165 --> 00:14:05.324 think is really, really important. 00:14:05.324 --> 00:14:07.155 I want to add an exclamation point to that. 00:14:07.155 --> 00:14:10.214 In these spontaneous speaking situations, we feel such pressure 00:14:10.425 --> 00:14:14.505 to respond immediately, and you remind us that slowing down actually 00:14:14.505 --> 00:14:16.365 affords us lots of opportunity. 00:14:16.725 --> 00:14:17.925 Final question for you. 00:14:17.985 --> 00:14:19.425 I wanna switch roles on you. 00:14:19.454 --> 00:14:21.765 I'm the professor, but I'm gonna have you be the professor. 00:14:21.765 --> 00:14:23.355 I'd like you to give me some homework. 00:14:23.704 --> 00:14:28.625 What is one communication thing that you would encourage me to do in my 00:14:28.625 --> 00:14:33.095 life, that simulates the things that you do, so I can get better, in your 00:14:33.095 --> 00:14:37.115 case, with negotiations and handling high pressure situations, is there one 00:14:37.115 --> 00:14:39.305 thing you'd give me homework to practice? 00:14:39.875 --> 00:14:45.064 Chris Voss: Spend a day with, whatever somebody says to you, say, seems like 00:14:45.064 --> 00:14:46.325 you have a reason for saying that. 00:14:46.475 --> 00:14:49.324 hmmm Somebody says, hey man, what a sunny day. 00:14:49.834 --> 00:14:51.245 Seems like you got a reason for saying that. 00:14:51.915 --> 00:14:55.064 Somebody says to you, you know, if you don't vote for so-and-so, you're 00:14:55.064 --> 00:14:56.385 betraying the American people. 00:14:56.925 --> 00:14:58.515 Seems like you got a reason for saying that. 00:14:59.415 --> 00:15:03.314 Just give yourself a day to experiment with that phrase 00:15:03.314 --> 00:15:04.785 no matter what people say. 00:15:04.814 --> 00:15:08.175 You can come back with your opinion, your observation. 00:15:08.685 --> 00:15:11.985 It doesn't preclude you for any of the natural things you want to say. 00:15:12.824 --> 00:15:17.985 I promise you, you spend a day doing that, you are gonna have four or five 00:15:17.985 --> 00:15:22.229 conversations, just the vast majority of them, are gonna open up in ways 00:15:22.229 --> 00:15:23.880 you, you didn't imagine possible. 00:15:24.180 --> 00:15:25.469 Matt Abrahams: I really like that. 00:15:25.530 --> 00:15:28.560 It opens up the door for more information to come out, so there's 00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:30.300 more data, as you've talked about. 00:15:30.689 --> 00:15:34.859 My mother-in-law, who I believe had a black belt in small talk, 00:15:34.890 --> 00:15:36.699 she used to say, tell me more. 00:15:37.380 --> 00:15:38.340 Chris Voss: Yeah, it's encouraging. 00:15:38.505 --> 00:15:39.194 Matt Abrahams: Exactly. 00:15:39.255 --> 00:15:40.785 Chris, this has been fantastic. 00:15:40.814 --> 00:15:46.035 You've given us lots of insight into how empathy can be an accelerant and 00:15:46.035 --> 00:15:52.425 really encouraging us to slow down, be present, and respond, not in one course 00:15:52.425 --> 00:15:56.625 or one way, but be open to responding in a way that's needed in the moment. 00:15:56.625 --> 00:15:57.495 Thank you so much. 00:15:58.045 --> 00:15:59.040 Chris Voss: The pleasure was mine. 00:15:59.040 --> 00:15:59.880 Thanks for having me on. 00:16:04.829 --> 00:16:07.140 Matt Abrahams: Thank you so much for joining us for another episode of 00:16:07.140 --> 00:16:09.540 Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:16:09.990 --> 00:16:13.110 To learn more from our spontaneous speaking coaches, listen to 00:16:13.110 --> 00:16:20.380 our four part miniseries, episodes, 197, 198, 199, and 203. 00:16:21.060 --> 00:16:24.900 You can also go to fastersmarter.io/spontaneous. 00:16:26.295 --> 00:16:28.830 This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Michael 00:16:28.830 --> 00:16:31.185 Riley, and me, Matt Abrahams. 00:16:31.545 --> 00:16:33.105 Our music is from Floyd Wonder. 00:16:33.525 --> 00:16:35.385 With thanks to Podium Podcast company. 00:16:35.775 --> 00:16:37.755 Be sure to subscribe and rate us. 00:16:38.115 --> 00:16:40.395 Also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. 00:16:40.845 --> 00:16:44.955 And check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language 00:16:44.955 --> 00:16:47.115 Learning content, and our newsletter. 00:16:47.625 --> 00:16:50.955 Please consider our premium offering for extended Deep Thinks episodes, 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:56.650 Ask Matt Anythings, and much more, at fastersmarter.io/premium.