WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.560 Victoria: Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where chemical means business. 00:00:05.930 --> 00:00:09.710 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.710 --> 00:00:13.620 from leaders, driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.529 --> 00:00:18.830 Each week, we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.830 --> 00:00:20.580 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:21.959 Let's get started. 00:00:23.203 --> 00:00:26.723 Today, I'm speaking with Peter Huntsman, who is the CEO of Huntsman 00:00:26.773 --> 00:00:32.013 Corporation, here at the Marsh North American Energy and Power Symposium. 00:00:32.013 --> 00:00:36.513 And Peter just gave a very lively keynote, which brought some 00:00:36.513 --> 00:00:39.173 contrary views, but also some necessary views into the industry. 00:00:39.173 --> 00:00:42.433 So I'm really looking forward to this conversation, and one that I've 00:00:42.433 --> 00:00:43.880 been hoping to have for a long time. 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:45.950 So, Peter, thank you for joining me on The Chemical Show. 00:00:45.955 --> 00:00:46.715 Peter: It's my pleasure. 00:00:46.715 --> 00:00:47.855 Thank you very much for having me. 00:00:48.035 --> 00:00:51.655 Victoria: Thank you So just give me a little brief overview to you and 00:00:51.655 --> 00:00:54.755 to Huntsman Corporation for those that may or may not be aware of it. 00:00:55.305 --> 00:00:58.355 Peter: Well, the business was obviously started by my father. 00:00:58.970 --> 00:00:59.620 And we actually 00:00:59.620 --> 00:01:02.890 started as a plastics packaging business. 00:01:02.910 --> 00:01:07.770 My father said that, starting in the early 1980s that, getting into 00:01:07.810 --> 00:01:12.093 the plastic side of the packaging, the plastics manufacturing, that's 00:01:12.093 --> 00:01:13.293 where the money was going to be made. 00:01:13.323 --> 00:01:15.973 I'm not sure that was necessarily, has been proven to 00:01:16.078 --> 00:01:18.348 Victoria: What was like it was styrofoam clamshells. 00:01:18.558 --> 00:01:19.278 Am I right about 00:01:19.333 --> 00:01:21.933 Peter: Well, yes, he originally started with eight cartons. 00:01:21.963 --> 00:01:25.273 My father originally started when they were first married, selling eggs. 00:01:25.713 --> 00:01:29.943 Uh, he had an uncle that, that he worked with, uh, gathered up all the eggs from 00:01:29.943 --> 00:01:32.323 the local farmers around Los Angeles. 00:01:32.463 --> 00:01:35.503 They bring them in, they had a huge amount, number of these eggs, 00:01:35.603 --> 00:01:36.743 that were breaking on the way. 00:01:36.743 --> 00:01:38.613 They couldn't be transported and so forth. 00:01:39.003 --> 00:01:42.133 And so they started a joint venture between 00:01:42.133 --> 00:01:42.253 Do 00:01:42.453 --> 00:01:48.053 Chemical, D O, and Olson Brothers, uh, which is my father's 00:01:48.123 --> 00:01:49.893 uncle's, uh, Olson Brothers. 00:01:49.923 --> 00:01:52.233 Dow and Olson together was, was Dolco. 00:01:52.613 --> 00:01:52.953 D. 00:01:52.953 --> 00:01:53.213 O. 00:01:53.263 --> 00:01:53.503 L. 00:01:53.503 --> 00:01:53.803 C. 00:01:53.803 --> 00:01:54.093 O. 00:01:54.393 --> 00:01:57.573 And that was the name of the first one of the very first packaging 00:01:57.573 --> 00:02:00.603 businesses that had styrofoam a cartons. 00:02:01.143 --> 00:02:04.413 And from there, that's the barriers to entry. 00:02:04.433 --> 00:02:06.873 Getting into plastic packaging is not all that high. 00:02:07.403 --> 00:02:11.753 They originally then they went into build soup bowls out of plastics. 00:02:12.413 --> 00:02:13.633 That didn't sell very well. 00:02:13.753 --> 00:02:17.443 And so they melded the sides and they made a clam shell out of it. 00:02:17.858 --> 00:02:19.868 And originally they tried to sell those to Avon. 00:02:20.408 --> 00:02:24.168 As women, at the end of the day, would come home, this is what the advertising 00:02:24.242 --> 00:02:25.059 Victoria: trying to sell to them. 00:02:25.059 --> 00:02:25.548 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:02:25.548 --> 00:02:25.712 Absolutely. 00:02:25.712 --> 00:02:26.038 No, it's 00:02:26.058 --> 00:02:28.438 Peter: As women come home, they want to put their earrings and they want 00:02:28.438 --> 00:02:30.788 to take all their jewelry off and put it in some place convenient. 00:02:30.798 --> 00:02:32.358 So, we'll put it in this clamshell. 00:02:32.359 --> 00:02:34.128 Now that didn't sell very well, 00:02:34.348 --> 00:02:36.178 Victoria: surprise me that, that didn't, that didn't sell 00:02:36.218 --> 00:02:36.448 Peter: off. 00:02:36.768 --> 00:02:40.118 And eventually, they went to McDonald's, McDonald's said that was a terrible 00:02:40.118 --> 00:02:41.598 idea, we'll never put a burger in that. 00:02:41.598 --> 00:02:43.848 So they went to Burger King, Burger 00:02:43.848 --> 00:02:47.998 King put their worst selling ham and cheese sandwich out of Miami. 00:02:48.608 --> 00:02:53.728 Into this, and they found that it was, able to keep the warmth of the burger. 00:02:54.198 --> 00:02:57.378 They could pre produce and therefore have a fresher burger. 00:02:57.718 --> 00:03:01.578 And, most importantly, the, the material that these were made out 00:03:01.578 --> 00:03:03.078 of was 100 percent recyclable. 00:03:03.258 --> 00:03:05.128 So all the environmental groups loved it. 00:03:05.148 --> 00:03:08.568 It's better than that waxy paper that can't be recycled and so forth. 00:03:08.888 --> 00:03:11.218 And then McDonald's came and said, Why don't you bring this to us? 00:03:11.298 --> 00:03:14.258 And then eventually we went from packaging into the plastics production. 00:03:14.259 --> 00:03:14.565 Right, 00:03:14.668 --> 00:03:16.928 Victoria: And then acquired many, many other companies and 00:03:16.928 --> 00:03:18.438 then shifted and transformed. 00:03:18.628 --> 00:03:19.038 Peter: 50. 00:03:19.058 --> 00:03:22.248 So I, I like to think of the arc of the companies very similar to 00:03:22.248 --> 00:03:23.448 the arc of the chemical industry. 00:03:23.738 --> 00:03:29.188 We started in grades of plastics that made clamshell containers for 00:03:29.188 --> 00:03:32.868 hamburgers and today every Boeing 787 00:03:33.173 --> 00:03:39.603 flying will have about 20 tons of Huntsman or Huntsman related materials per plane. 00:03:39.933 --> 00:03:42.303 So That's kind of what the chemical industry has done. 00:03:42.303 --> 00:03:46.353 We've gone from cheap packaging all the way to where you cannot 00:03:46.353 --> 00:03:52.633 build, an airplane today without our materials, uh, space travel, EVs, 00:03:52.753 --> 00:03:55.883 renewable energy, all of this is made possible through our industry. 00:03:55.883 --> 00:03:55.923 That's 00:03:55.935 --> 00:03:56.167 Victoria: awesome. 00:03:56.167 --> 00:03:56.978 And it's so cool. 00:03:57.098 --> 00:03:58.748 So, and that's a great segue. 00:03:58.748 --> 00:04:02.578 So, you know, you're talking today about the role of chemicals 00:04:02.628 --> 00:04:07.988 in, um, maybe energy transition, but in a carbon economy, right? 00:04:07.988 --> 00:04:10.638 So I know you said quite vehemently, there is no such thing as carbon 00:04:10.648 --> 00:04:15.078 neutrality, um, but we can be smart with our carbon, right? 00:04:15.078 --> 00:04:16.808 So why is this so critical? 00:04:16.808 --> 00:04:18.658 What is critical about chemicals today? 00:04:19.128 --> 00:04:19.588 Well, I, 00:04:19.658 --> 00:04:23.898 Peter: I'm always just a bit bemused in that the, most of the policy makers are 00:04:23.908 --> 00:04:25.548 looking to get away from hydrocarbons. 00:04:25.613 --> 00:04:25.843 Victoria: hydrocarbons. 00:04:26.648 --> 00:04:30.698 Peter: Chemical industry, think about this, there's very few products we produce 00:04:30.698 --> 00:04:32.398 today that we were making 10 years ago. 00:04:32.723 --> 00:04:36.993 Paper can't say that, steel can't say that, most manufacturing 00:04:36.993 --> 00:04:38.483 processes can't say that. 00:04:38.783 --> 00:04:42.433 Timber industry, so what we make today in the chemical industry, we 00:04:42.433 --> 00:04:44.633 replace, we're continuously coming out. 00:04:44.863 --> 00:04:47.843 Think of a, of something as simple as a bottle of water. 00:04:48.193 --> 00:04:50.653 You know, the plastic containers can't hold water. 00:04:50.653 --> 00:04:53.403 Now those things are so thin, you get it in your hand and you're afraid 00:04:53.403 --> 00:04:54.593 that it's just going to come apart. 00:04:54.803 --> 00:04:55.603 That's how thin it is. 00:04:55.673 --> 00:04:58.933 That's, we've, we've, we're saving hydrocarbons, we're saving 00:04:58.933 --> 00:05:00.333 money, we have efficiencies. 00:05:00.808 --> 00:05:04.508 I don't know of another industry that manufactures, now I know tech and, and 00:05:04.508 --> 00:05:08.318 chips, I'm moving that to one side here, but when I think, if you could see the 00:05:08.318 --> 00:05:15.248 sort of, of manufacturing proficiency in the steel, cement, wood, energy industry 00:05:15.458 --> 00:05:17.108 that you've seen in the chemical industry. 00:05:17.458 --> 00:05:21.078 That's what's so phenomenal about this industry is we are the solution. 00:05:21.383 --> 00:05:22.053 Victoria: Yeah, absolutely. 00:05:22.053 --> 00:05:27.213 And as you point out, so many of the products that are being used readily 00:05:27.213 --> 00:05:29.473 today were not around a decade ago 00:05:29.573 --> 00:05:31.093 Peter: and they won't be here 10 years from now. 00:05:31.333 --> 00:05:32.263 We'll have something better. 00:05:32.273 --> 00:05:35.333 Victoria: and all the things that from a consumer perspective, we've grown 00:05:35.333 --> 00:05:39.663 accustomed to, whether it be phones, whether it be, you know, these microphones 00:05:39.663 --> 00:05:41.623 that we're using today, whatever are 00:05:41.913 --> 00:05:44.573 foundationally part of the chemical industry, right? 00:05:44.573 --> 00:05:47.663 There's so many critical components that go into it that, you know, 00:05:47.673 --> 00:05:52.003 frankly, the majority of the world doesn't really recognize, but you and I 00:05:52.003 --> 00:05:53.523 recognize that, which is a good thing. 00:05:53.923 --> 00:05:56.733 So one of the things you've talked about is, Just some of the 00:05:56.733 --> 00:06:00.573 challenges and hurdles in getting these new products approved, right? 00:06:00.573 --> 00:06:03.113 So there's so many of the innovations that are taking place. 00:06:03.553 --> 00:06:08.243 We know that we need these innovations to support our future economies, 00:06:08.253 --> 00:06:14.183 whether it be EVs, whether it be airplanes and aerospace and the 00:06:14.183 --> 00:06:15.543 new technologies that we want. 00:06:15.903 --> 00:06:20.143 And yet, it seems like it's really a challenge, Maybe we can design them, 00:06:20.143 --> 00:06:22.437 but to get them approved for use. 00:06:22.437 --> 00:06:23.907 Can you talk about that a little bit? 00:06:24.292 --> 00:06:29.702 Peter: Well, the EPA today has 90 days by law, and that was the Frank 00:06:29.712 --> 00:06:32.462 Lautenberg Act, that they have 90 days. 00:06:32.462 --> 00:06:36.602 It's a bipartisan bill that was passed, uh, what was it, seven or eight years ago. 00:06:37.062 --> 00:06:41.122 And it was supposed to reform how you regulate chemicals 00:06:41.152 --> 00:06:41.982 and at the same time how 00:06:41.982 --> 00:06:43.592 you approve chemicals. 00:06:43.832 --> 00:06:46.312 I've been a chief executive officer for over 20 years. 00:06:46.722 --> 00:06:49.952 I rarely have ever heard CEOs complain about. 00:06:49.998 --> 00:06:54.658 The over regulation of our industry as much as the regulations 00:06:54.658 --> 00:06:56.548 that just don't make sense. 00:06:56.698 --> 00:06:59.928 And so when you're trying to regulate something, and you've 00:06:59.928 --> 00:07:01.048 got 90 days to regulate it. 00:07:01.068 --> 00:07:03.858 We've got some products in the United States right now that have been on 00:07:03.858 --> 00:07:05.948 that wait list now two or three years. 00:07:06.608 --> 00:07:07.718 And so I go to China. 00:07:08.328 --> 00:07:12.528 And I can probably get not only the approval virtually within a matter 00:07:12.528 --> 00:07:15.478 of weeks, but I probably get some subsidies from the government to 00:07:15.488 --> 00:07:17.828 build a new process, new technologies. 00:07:17.838 --> 00:07:20.128 I mean, they incentivize you to bring new technologies over there 00:07:20.128 --> 00:07:21.558 for a whole host of reasons, right? 00:07:21.998 --> 00:07:25.878 And we're sitting over here thinking, well, if you really want to get beyond 00:07:26.528 --> 00:07:30.618 forever chemicals, you really want to get beyond perhaps some of the more toxic 00:07:31.028 --> 00:07:33.488 products that were made decades ago. 00:07:34.168 --> 00:07:38.928 We're constantly innovating, but if you don't have the means and the ability 00:07:38.928 --> 00:07:43.178 to get that approved quickly and efficiently, and maybe even incentivized 00:07:43.248 --> 00:07:46.588 to replace those sorts of things, maybe we, we get the front of the line. 00:07:46.588 --> 00:07:49.518 If you have something that's going to be replacing yesterday's, 00:07:49.668 --> 00:07:50.948 state of the art chemistry. 00:07:51.488 --> 00:07:51.908 And so. 00:07:52.063 --> 00:07:55.883 As we look at this, it just seems today that the EPA seems to be more 00:07:55.883 --> 00:07:59.803 interested in buying electric buses that don't work for school districts than 00:07:59.803 --> 00:08:03.703 they are getting the next generation of cleaner, more efficient, more 00:08:03.703 --> 00:08:08.473 effective, chemistries in building blocks approved and into the market. 00:08:08.693 --> 00:08:10.213 Victoria: Yeah, I would agree with that. 00:08:10.213 --> 00:08:15.133 And, and I know, um, I recently was at HCPA, the household and consumer 00:08:15.133 --> 00:08:16.463 products association meeting. 00:08:16.463 --> 00:08:21.393 And there was a lot of conversation there about concerns about the new 00:08:21.393 --> 00:08:25.903 administration coming in and what it means for the EPA opportunities, obviously 00:08:25.903 --> 00:08:30.273 with, as we get into a new administration, which we're just, you know, days away 00:08:30.283 --> 00:08:34.793 from, how do you see this and how do you and other CEOs like yourself. 00:08:35.013 --> 00:08:38.913 Influence this influence the opportunity for a more effective E. 00:08:38.913 --> 00:08:39.173 P. 00:08:39.173 --> 00:08:39.653 A. 00:08:39.963 --> 00:08:43.163 How do you look at these changes that are afoot in Washington? 00:08:43.873 --> 00:08:47.543 Peter: I'm not sure that there's a lot of immediate impact on that. 00:08:47.543 --> 00:08:50.533 I, and I say that because when we build a chemical plant, you're 00:08:50.533 --> 00:08:54.083 building a plant that's going to be around for at least 30 or 40 years. 00:08:54.388 --> 00:08:58.038 So you're making an investment today, and you're really saying where are 00:08:58.038 --> 00:09:00.018 we going to be 20, 30 years from now. 00:09:00.268 --> 00:09:03.098 Because that's when the plant's probably going to be totally sold out. 00:09:03.438 --> 00:09:05.878 It's, it's going to take a couple of years to permit. 00:09:05.878 --> 00:09:08.418 If you and I decided today that we're going to go out and build a billion 00:09:08.418 --> 00:09:10.868 dollar ethylene plant or anything, you're probably looking at two or 00:09:10.868 --> 00:09:12.378 three years to be able to permit. 00:09:12.618 --> 00:09:15.918 To be able to, to engineer it another two or three years to be able to build it. 00:09:15.918 --> 00:09:17.978 And so we're, so you're looking at five, six, seven years. 00:09:18.048 --> 00:09:20.078 There's a product like MDI polyurethanes. 00:09:20.078 --> 00:09:21.608 You're probably getting closer to a decade. 00:09:22.118 --> 00:09:24.648 So we're, we're going to make a billion dollars today. 00:09:25.108 --> 00:09:28.698 We're going to make, make that decision today for a plant that wouldn't 00:09:28.698 --> 00:09:30.628 even be running for almost a decade. 00:09:31.268 --> 00:09:33.318 And then it's going to run for another 30 years 00:09:33.538 --> 00:09:34.158 after that. 00:09:34.168 --> 00:09:37.318 So I've got to be able to look today and say, well, I'm building this facility. 00:09:37.688 --> 00:09:39.698 I need to be able to look 40 years down the road. 00:09:39.834 --> 00:09:40.287 Victoria: the road. 00:09:40.287 --> 00:09:41.644 So how do you handle that? 00:09:41.644 --> 00:09:44.863 Cause that's, cause there's a certain amount of regulatory uncertainty. 00:09:44.863 --> 00:09:47.773 So there's always the business uncertainty, you know, in 00:09:47.773 --> 00:09:48.953 terms of the markets there. 00:09:48.953 --> 00:09:51.033 Is it the right product, right place, right markets? 00:09:51.043 --> 00:09:51.953 Is it profitable? 00:09:52.393 --> 00:09:56.103 But then you add this regulatory risk onto it. 00:09:56.828 --> 00:09:57.948 Which is a risk. 00:09:58.008 --> 00:09:58.748 Not just in the U. 00:09:58.748 --> 00:09:58.958 S. 00:09:58.958 --> 00:10:02.098 In Europe else, you know, frankly, probably around the globe, different 00:10:02.108 --> 00:10:03.698 regions, different, different places. 00:10:03.698 --> 00:10:08.798 But how do you assess that risk and incorporate that into those decisions? 00:10:09.288 --> 00:10:10.218 Peter: It's a real challenge. 00:10:10.408 --> 00:10:12.638 I wish I could say that there's an easy answer to this. 00:10:12.638 --> 00:10:16.608 One of the questions that was asked, um, you may have heard earlier was, 00:10:16.988 --> 00:10:21.308 somebody got up and said that, that free enterprise and democracies were the enemy 00:10:21.328 --> 00:10:23.098 because they're both short term oriented. 00:10:23.768 --> 00:10:27.048 They're the enemy of the solutions of what we need to change 00:10:27.068 --> 00:10:28.268 climate issues and so forth. 00:10:28.548 --> 00:10:30.418 Well I take just the opposite approach to that. 00:10:30.418 --> 00:10:32.908 I think government has been one of the most ruinous. 00:10:32.908 --> 00:10:36.368 So if I look back at the United States, Huntsman, we've invested hundreds of 00:10:36.368 --> 00:10:41.228 millions of dollars in the production when the Clean Water Act came out in the 1990s. 00:10:41.228 --> 00:10:43.218 Remember when we had to have MTBE? 00:10:43.218 --> 00:10:46.288 It was mandated you had to have and oxygenate your gasoline. 00:10:46.288 --> 00:10:48.428 Our industry spent billions and billions of dollars. 00:10:48.478 --> 00:10:50.288 Exxon, Huntsman, Lyondell. 00:10:50.658 --> 00:10:53.358 Great companies spent billions of dollars building these 00:10:53.428 --> 00:10:55.928 facilities within a few years. 00:10:56.118 --> 00:11:01.808 It not only was it no longer mandated, but it wasn't even permitted because 00:11:01.808 --> 00:11:03.858 of, of legal liabilities and so forth. 00:11:04.028 --> 00:11:05.638 So I can go through, 00:11:05.688 --> 00:11:09.358 line and scripture of the government mandates that have come out, whether 00:11:09.358 --> 00:11:13.318 it's on aerosol usage or whether it's on hydrocarbons, whether you, you 00:11:13.318 --> 00:11:16.038 know, and the amount of money that goes directly from the government. 00:11:16.038 --> 00:11:16.098 Thank you. 00:11:16.403 --> 00:11:20.503 Into NGOs pockets that are fighting the chemical industry. 00:11:20.883 --> 00:11:23.373 People like Mayor Bloomberg, who's spending hundreds of millions 00:11:23.373 --> 00:11:26.193 of dollars of his own money to get beyond petrochemicals. 00:11:26.463 --> 00:11:29.963 This is a guy that has multiple private jets, multiple homes around. 00:11:30.103 --> 00:11:32.633 He's gotta be a huge customer of ours, I mean, 00:11:32.983 --> 00:11:34.923 of all the products and everything. 00:11:34.923 --> 00:11:34.963 And 00:11:34.963 --> 00:11:38.693 he's spending all this money to try to ban the, the solutions 00:11:38.693 --> 00:11:40.103 to what we have in society. 00:11:40.103 --> 00:11:40.253 I, I, 00:11:40.423 --> 00:11:41.833 Victoria: I know it's really ironic. 00:11:41.923 --> 00:11:42.683 It's ironic. 00:11:42.683 --> 00:11:46.183 And I think it's a function of the fact that people don't actually understand, 00:11:46.943 --> 00:11:50.283 how things are built, where products come from, what it might be right. 00:11:50.283 --> 00:11:52.303 There's just this sheer lack of understanding. 00:11:52.913 --> 00:11:55.463 And maybe it's a bit of it's somebody else's problem. 00:11:55.473 --> 00:11:59.653 Or if I just make a bold statement, it's all going to magically fix itself. 00:12:00.523 --> 00:12:01.983 It's a conundrum for sure. 00:12:02.213 --> 00:12:05.923 Peter: It, it is, and I, I have an opportunity to speak, 00:12:06.028 --> 00:12:07.448 usually every other month or so 00:12:07.708 --> 00:12:08.708 at a university. 00:12:08.708 --> 00:12:11.718 And invariably I'll get a student that will stand up and say, I want you to 00:12:11.718 --> 00:12:15.608 know I'm opposed to the chemical industry and I'm boycotting your industry. 00:12:15.948 --> 00:12:17.728 And I'll look at him and I'll say, what do you mean? 00:12:17.728 --> 00:12:18.538 You're boycotting it. 00:12:18.538 --> 00:12:19.448 I don't know. 00:12:19.458 --> 00:12:20.138 How do you do that? 00:12:20.418 --> 00:12:22.378 Why don't use plastic bags anymore? 00:12:22.378 --> 00:12:24.178 I don't, I've got a canvas bag. 00:12:25.068 --> 00:12:25.588 Okay. 00:12:25.628 --> 00:12:27.588 Well, you know, we haven't produced plastic 00:12:28.118 --> 00:12:28.368 for 00:12:28.838 --> 00:12:31.438 either the bag or the plastics go into the bag for decades, 00:12:31.778 --> 00:12:33.338 but you're wearing our product. 00:12:33.338 --> 00:12:34.218 You're eating our product. 00:12:34.218 --> 00:12:35.288 Your anxiety medicine. 00:12:35.288 --> 00:12:36.808 You're probably taking is our product. 00:12:36.808 --> 00:12:38.858 Your eyeglasses, your computer, your skateboard. 00:12:38.858 --> 00:12:40.728 You've got their clothes, shoes, everything. 00:12:40.728 --> 00:12:42.808 You have the air conditioning coming in everything in this. 00:12:43.268 --> 00:12:46.568 And you know, when people, you said earlier, maybe they've just 00:12:46.588 --> 00:12:48.188 forgotten how things are made. 00:12:48.628 --> 00:12:53.798 There seems we were so detached from, um, It used to be the majority of our 00:12:53.798 --> 00:12:55.718 population was just in agriculture. 00:12:55.718 --> 00:12:57.698 Now it's less than 5%. 00:12:57.868 --> 00:12:59.758 It's actually in the production of food 00:12:59.998 --> 00:13:01.108 that feeds the world. 00:13:01.248 --> 00:13:03.068 Victoria: Or even manufacturing overall, right? 00:13:03.068 --> 00:13:06.608 Because you think about how efficient our manufacturing processes are. 00:13:07.218 --> 00:13:09.878 Many people are not in manufacturing anymore. 00:13:09.888 --> 00:13:11.638 They're just in consumption. 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:12.200 That's right. 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:12.481 Yeah. 00:13:12.481 --> 00:13:12.762 You 00:13:12.968 --> 00:13:15.608 Peter: mean, look how much of our GDP today is around, you 00:13:15.608 --> 00:13:16.808 know, the financial services. 00:13:16.808 --> 00:13:19.008 We're just basically moving money around, right? 00:13:19.248 --> 00:13:20.318 A lot of what tech is. 00:13:20.358 --> 00:13:21.858 Apple does not build. 00:13:22.443 --> 00:13:23.293 This phone, right? 00:13:23.293 --> 00:13:24.593 They license it to be built. 00:13:24.603 --> 00:13:26.123 They have a third party that builds it. 00:13:26.123 --> 00:13:28.023 But Apple themselves, they don't build this phone. 00:13:28.033 --> 00:13:31.683 They own the technology when you download apps, they make money. 00:13:32.003 --> 00:13:35.723 It's a brilliant business model they have, but they're not making the phones. 00:13:36.073 --> 00:13:38.273 These companies that we think even manufactured today. 00:13:38.283 --> 00:13:39.073 Most of them don't, 00:13:39.203 --> 00:13:40.503 and they'll sub it out to somebody 00:13:40.503 --> 00:13:40.833 else. 00:13:41.243 --> 00:13:41.613 Victoria: right, right. 00:13:41.813 --> 00:13:44.193 So you talked a little bit about Europe today. 00:13:44.243 --> 00:13:46.613 And, frankly, it's a European problem, right? 00:13:46.613 --> 00:13:50.203 And I know that you've addressed the fact that, uh, as we Look 00:13:50.203 --> 00:13:51.463 at what's going on in Europe. 00:13:51.463 --> 00:13:57.423 Europe seems to be anti manufacturing, whether it's intentional or it's the 00:13:57.823 --> 00:14:00.403 the function of misguided policies. 00:14:00.813 --> 00:14:03.263 Can you just talk a little bit more about what you see going on 00:14:03.263 --> 00:14:07.093 there and how are you and Huntsman approaching business in Europe today? 00:14:07.813 --> 00:14:10.163 Peter: Well, unfortunately, we're approaching it and that 00:14:10.163 --> 00:14:13.983 we have been cutting costs now for the last, really since about 00:14:13.993 --> 00:14:15.523 2021. 00:14:15.933 --> 00:14:17.743 Uh, you start to see record high. 00:14:17.773 --> 00:14:21.313 This is the year before Putin invaded Russia. 00:14:21.343 --> 00:14:25.123 This is, remember when all those really smart people went to Glasgow 00:14:25.123 --> 00:14:26.813 at one of the environmental summits 00:14:26.868 --> 00:14:27.858 Victoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:14:28.458 --> 00:14:28.758 Yeah. 00:14:28.768 --> 00:14:28.838 It was 00:14:28.843 --> 00:14:30.393 Peter: during that summer, right? 00:14:30.393 --> 00:14:33.613 That you started to see, a high pressure goes over Europe. 00:14:33.933 --> 00:14:36.493 There's not enough wind to produce the electricity. 00:14:36.493 --> 00:14:37.663 They start burning gas. 00:14:38.073 --> 00:14:43.513 It's going into the next winter's storage and electrical prices this summer before 00:14:43.513 --> 00:14:46.213 the invasion go to historical high prices. 00:14:46.693 --> 00:14:47.023 Okay. 00:14:47.123 --> 00:14:50.113 So I'm not a fan of Vladimir Putin. 00:14:50.433 --> 00:14:52.293 I despise what he's done in Ukraine. 00:14:52.373 --> 00:14:55.023 I'm not saying that that has had zero impact. 00:14:55.323 --> 00:14:58.253 What I'm saying is that much of where we are in Europe is 00:14:58.253 --> 00:15:00.093 a problem of their own making. 00:15:00.453 --> 00:15:04.013 And what they have done is simply put is that they have legislated. 00:15:04.328 --> 00:15:08.828 And set targets with no real achievable way to get there. 00:15:09.148 --> 00:15:10.398 Now, aspirational 00:15:10.438 --> 00:15:14.298 targets are fine, but when you start telling people, this is 00:15:14.298 --> 00:15:15.638 going to cost you your jobs. 00:15:15.638 --> 00:15:18.108 You start telling people to shut down your facilities. 00:15:18.108 --> 00:15:21.128 You start getting to a point where hundreds of thousands of people, look 00:15:21.128 --> 00:15:25.148 what's taking place in the automotive sector and so forth today, Europe 00:15:25.448 --> 00:15:30.798 does not stand a prayer, the chance of competing against the Chinese with EVs. 00:15:31.053 --> 00:15:32.363 Victoria: you think it's fixable? 00:15:32.883 --> 00:15:35.173 Is the European situation fixable 00:15:35.283 --> 00:15:38.233 Peter: not at the present time, I've talked to government leaders there. 00:15:38.233 --> 00:15:41.703 I've asked them if, if tomorrow somebody came out today and just 00:15:41.723 --> 00:15:46.453 prove the science incorrect with, with climate, would you change 00:15:46.703 --> 00:15:48.613 most of them said, no, we wouldn't. 00:15:48.633 --> 00:15:49.263 This is a way 00:15:49.263 --> 00:15:50.043 of life for us. 00:15:50.103 --> 00:15:51.343 This is where we want to be. 00:15:51.343 --> 00:15:54.883 This is our, our reason for, for existence. 00:15:54.983 --> 00:15:58.758 And Which always just astounds me, because I'm not sure, if it's not 00:15:58.968 --> 00:16:01.138 climate driven, why are you doing this? 00:16:01.285 --> 00:16:05.545 Victoria: I, I do feel bad for, uh, For all the employees that are no 00:16:05.545 --> 00:16:10.475 longer have jobs because manufacturing sites have shut down for the, you 00:16:10.475 --> 00:16:14.595 use the analogy of what it costs to take a shower in Germany and the UK. 00:16:14.625 --> 00:16:19.565 It's hard to be a, you know, a citizen there in some respects. 00:16:20.025 --> 00:16:22.415 Um, in many respects, it's great. 00:16:22.435 --> 00:16:23.405 I love, I love Europe. 00:16:23.405 --> 00:16:24.225 I love to visit Europe, 00:16:24.326 --> 00:16:24.580 Peter: of 00:16:24.585 --> 00:16:25.995 Victoria: Wonderful place, but lived there 00:16:25.995 --> 00:16:27.625 Peter: 8 years of my put a bunch of my kids through 00:16:27.655 --> 00:16:29.620 Victoria: Yeah, but Through 00:16:29.685 --> 00:16:31.505 Peter: European school system and so forth. 00:16:32.260 --> 00:16:34.240 Victoria: But the industrial policies today are 00:16:34.490 --> 00:16:35.090 Peter: it's terrible. 00:16:35.150 --> 00:16:39.960 The energy policies that filter into the industrial policies and what you're 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:45.120 going to see is just this massive dislocation, relocation of manufacturing. 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:49.310 Eventually where the chemicals go, where steel, chemical and energy goes, that's 00:16:49.310 --> 00:16:50.780 where manufacturing has got to follow. 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:54.830 And it's, and when I say manufacturing, I go all the way down, you know, 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:59.070 where are the Apples, the Googles, the NVIDIA is in Europe today. 00:16:59.245 --> 00:16:59.535 Victoria: Yeah. 00:17:00.355 --> 00:17:03.895 Peter: They're not there and the sad thing is with AI coming on you've got 00:17:03.895 --> 00:17:07.345 plenty of smart people in Europe You got a great education system that is 00:17:07.345 --> 00:17:12.515 there I'm not criticizing that but AI is going to exist because of data data 00:17:12.515 --> 00:17:18.175 is going to exist because of Power because of the electrons that generate 00:17:18.175 --> 00:17:22.695 the data That's going to exist because you have competitive raw materials for 00:17:22.695 --> 00:17:26.095 energy and so you're gonna see massive data centers You're seeing it today. 00:17:26.095 --> 00:17:27.135 This isn't a projection 00:17:27.510 --> 00:17:28.270 In China, 00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:28.980 coal. 00:17:29.540 --> 00:17:31.120 In the Middle East, oil. 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:31.870 And in the U. 00:17:31.870 --> 00:17:32.210 S., 00:17:32.340 --> 00:17:32.920 gas. 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:34.100 Not nuclear. 00:17:34.210 --> 00:17:35.220 I mean, I hope eventually it 00:17:35.310 --> 00:17:35.940 Victoria: I hope get there. 00:17:36.050 --> 00:17:37.120 Peter: Not nuclear. 00:17:37.190 --> 00:17:39.110 You cannot run a data center on wind. 00:17:39.300 --> 00:17:41.530 It can be part of your portfolio, yes. 00:17:41.810 --> 00:17:44.060 But it's not going to be exclusively on wind. 00:17:44.465 --> 00:17:45.270 Victoria: wind. 00:17:45.270 --> 00:17:45.410 And 00:17:45.410 --> 00:17:48.140 Peter: as you think about this, the whole next generation of A. 00:17:48.140 --> 00:17:48.510 I. 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:50.830 is going to be coming from those three regions. 00:17:50.900 --> 00:17:53.000 Now, not exclusive to those three regions. 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.130 There's going to be isolated incidences, I get it. 00:17:55.540 --> 00:17:58.900 But the vast majority of AI is going to be coming from China. 00:17:58.950 --> 00:18:00.070 It's going to come from the Middle East. 00:18:00.140 --> 00:18:02.090 And it's going to be coming from the data centers that are built 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:04.020 in there and in the United States. 00:18:04.130 --> 00:18:08.280 And so it's not just a question of where you want to produce your steel or where 00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:09.810 you want to produce your automobiles. 00:18:09.810 --> 00:18:15.120 It's also the next generation of, of information, technology, of, of medical 00:18:15.120 --> 00:18:17.050 science, of, of space and so forth. 00:18:17.585 --> 00:18:19.485 That's what Europe is missing out on today. 00:18:19.825 --> 00:18:21.755 What should be built today is not going to be 00:18:21.765 --> 00:18:25.985 Victoria: Yeah, and it gets back to your earlier comment on free enterprise, right? 00:18:25.995 --> 00:18:31.115 So free enterprise, innovation and rewarding that innovation and the 00:18:31.445 --> 00:18:37.055 problem solving the opportunities that we're seeing and that with the 00:18:37.225 --> 00:18:42.085 less regulation or maybe appropriate regulation, we enable that to happen. 00:18:42.270 --> 00:18:42.905 Peter: happen. 00:18:42.985 --> 00:18:43.265 Yeah, 00:18:43.515 --> 00:18:45.345 it's, Yeah, they've got to go hand in glove. 00:18:45.365 --> 00:18:45.845 That's what I say. 00:18:46.505 --> 00:18:47.895 I'm not opposed to regulation. 00:18:47.895 --> 00:18:48.035 I'm 00:18:48.055 --> 00:18:49.465 Victoria: Yeah, no. 00:18:49.535 --> 00:18:50.235 Industry needs it. 00:18:50.315 --> 00:18:50.695 Yes. 00:18:51.545 --> 00:18:52.085 Peter: I'm just 00:18:52.085 --> 00:18:55.005 opposed to when it becomes non science and when it becomes 00:18:55.005 --> 00:18:56.365 too emotional or political. 00:18:56.485 --> 00:18:57.715 And both sides of the aisle 00:18:57.820 --> 00:18:58.150 Victoria: Yeah. 00:18:58.450 --> 00:19:00.680 Let's talk a little bit about business transformation, because you 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.630 referenced the fact that, you know, you guys are fundamentally, Huntsman 00:19:03.630 --> 00:19:06.640 is fundamentally pulling away in many ways from Europe because of the 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:08.310 business environment makes it difficult. 00:19:08.990 --> 00:19:14.446 As a company, dramatically different company today than you were 20 years ago. 00:19:14.446 --> 00:19:14.841 Yeah. 00:19:15.026 --> 00:19:18.124 Growing businesses, selling businesses, changing businesses. 00:19:18.884 --> 00:19:22.384 What have you found to be really successful in helping to align 00:19:22.384 --> 00:19:28.314 your organization, align your, your customers through these transformations 00:19:28.314 --> 00:19:29.654 that you've led the company through? 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.119 Peter: Well, I think you've got to, first of all, you've got to come into 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:36.039 work every morning and you've got to be ready to take your portfolio. 00:19:36.479 --> 00:19:37.389 And I don't 00:19:37.389 --> 00:19:40.149 like to use the phrase blow it up because in the chemical industry 00:19:40.149 --> 00:19:41.649 that has really bad connotations. 00:19:41.649 --> 00:19:41.819 But, 00:19:42.139 --> 00:19:45.119 but you've got to be ready and willing to take it apart. 00:19:45.579 --> 00:19:48.719 If Huntsman were the same company today that it was just 00:19:48.719 --> 00:19:50.289 10 years ago, we'd be bankrupt. 00:19:50.289 --> 00:19:51.589 And I don't say that lightly. 00:19:51.729 --> 00:19:56.469 I mean, you know, since that time, the last 15 years, we have, we've shrunk the 00:19:56.469 --> 00:20:00.419 size of our company by about 40 percent and we have a much stronger balance sheet. 00:20:00.699 --> 00:20:03.959 We have more product innovation that's taking place today than ever before. 00:20:04.299 --> 00:20:05.179 We got out of all the polystyrene and 00:20:05.179 --> 00:20:06.909 styrenics. 00:20:07.189 --> 00:20:09.319 We got out of polyethylene, polypropylene. 00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:12.379 We used to be one of the top five producers in North America on that. 00:20:12.389 --> 00:20:16.259 All of the olefins, aromatics, TIO2, our intermediates business, 00:20:16.259 --> 00:20:20.359 surfactants business, our textile businesses, we've sold all of 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:21.359 Victoria: That's dramatic. 00:20:21.379 --> 00:20:25.339 Peter: down and we've expanded in aerospace, adhesions and so forth. 00:20:25.679 --> 00:20:27.779 And we're going to continue to do that, 00:20:27.879 --> 00:20:31.539 Shareholders may ask, are we content with the portfolio is today? 00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:32.309 No, of course not. 00:20:32.639 --> 00:20:34.659 We've got to continue to, to rip it apart. 00:20:34.659 --> 00:20:37.649 We've got to continue to, to find opportunities now at the bottom 00:20:37.649 --> 00:20:39.059 of a cycle where we are today. 00:20:39.059 --> 00:20:41.339 It's rather difficult to say that, but. 00:20:41.339 --> 00:20:45.949 The time to sell and transform your assets or when you're you're just coming 00:20:45.949 --> 00:20:50.379 out of that trough, which I think we're just about there, and I think that 00:20:50.409 --> 00:20:51.919 there's a lot more transformation. 00:20:51.919 --> 00:20:55.029 We're gonna look a lot more like our epoxies, adhesion, 00:20:55.059 --> 00:20:56.639 aerospace, even in Europe. 00:20:56.649 --> 00:20:59.459 Those are those are good businesses today, right? 00:20:59.529 --> 00:21:03.459 Energy conservation, and we're gonna look a lot less like commodity M. 00:21:03.459 --> 00:21:03.679 D. 00:21:03.679 --> 00:21:03.919 I. 00:21:03.919 --> 00:21:06.489 And commodity urethane products and so forth. 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:06.859 Victoria: Yeah. 00:21:07.169 --> 00:21:07.419 Yeah. 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:09.919 I think we are in a period of transformation, certainly. 00:21:09.979 --> 00:21:13.489 And certainly Huntsman is definitely right there. 00:21:13.489 --> 00:21:14.129 You have to be. 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.649 Yeah, change or be changed. 00:21:17.129 --> 00:21:17.359 Yeah. 00:21:17.419 --> 00:21:20.289 So let's talk a little bit about leadership aside from the fact 00:21:20.289 --> 00:21:21.549 that your name is on the company. 00:21:21.549 --> 00:21:25.369 So there's obviously, you know, there's a family legacy for 00:21:25.369 --> 00:21:26.979 you and Huntsman Corporation. 00:21:27.569 --> 00:21:29.879 But that's not a guarantor of success. 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:34.679 Are there some characteristics or things that you really attribute to 00:21:34.689 --> 00:21:36.967 being a successful leader of a company? 00:21:36.967 --> 00:21:39.813 Peter: good question because there's just so many different 00:21:39.813 --> 00:21:41.290 attributes depending on the 00:21:41.605 --> 00:21:41.695 Victoria: depending 00:21:42.550 --> 00:21:44.660 Peter: company, the profile and so forth of it. 00:21:45.110 --> 00:21:47.710 I became president, I became chief executive back when we were 00:21:47.710 --> 00:21:50.190 private And, our family owned the majority of the company. 00:21:50.630 --> 00:21:53.970 And, my father for all intents and purposes from an operating point of view. 00:21:54.280 --> 00:21:55.450 stepped aside about 30 00:21:55.460 --> 00:21:59.990 years ago, back when we were still in plastics and polystyrene and so forth. 00:22:00.460 --> 00:22:02.870 You look at the transformation that's taken place since then. 00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:05.150 Uh, I think it's really important to look at 00:22:05.150 --> 00:22:07.020 The macro global trends. 00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:11.940 One of the reasons I wanted to get out of polyolefins and out of polystyrene, out 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:16.060 of these heavy chemicals, I saw that we were competing more against countries. 00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:18.860 Then we were against companies. 00:22:19.050 --> 00:22:23.310 I mean, I know Reliance in India is not owned by the government, but try 00:22:23.340 --> 00:22:27.120 going and building a million barrel a day refinery in India as an outsider. 00:22:27.120 --> 00:22:28.200 You're probably not going to get. 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:28.300 the 00:22:28.300 --> 00:22:30.240 same sort of incentives that Reliance would get. 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:32.650 And look, we do the same thing in this country as well. 00:22:32.770 --> 00:22:36.800 Somebody like Japan, a very close ally, wants to come in and buy a steel asset. 00:22:36.850 --> 00:22:37.990 We tell them you can't do that. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.290 At least, the Current president says that. 00:22:40.650 --> 00:22:45.385 Um, so I think you've got to look at the large macro trends. 00:22:45.575 --> 00:22:49.545 What do you bring that's that's unique to your industry? 00:22:49.695 --> 00:22:54.455 What can you do that private equity can't do or somebody, a government entity? 00:22:54.845 --> 00:22:58.155 And I think the most important thing, particularly for me, 00:22:58.165 --> 00:22:59.325 and it's very easy for me. 00:22:59.835 --> 00:23:03.425 Is to hire people, surround yourself with people that are smarter, people 00:23:03.425 --> 00:23:05.145 that are, are better than you. 00:23:05.295 --> 00:23:07.475 I said, that's an easy thing for me to be able to do. 00:23:07.505 --> 00:23:10.945 Cause I, I can always find smarter people and people that 00:23:10.955 --> 00:23:12.575 have, better ideas and so forth. 00:23:12.585 --> 00:23:12.895 So, 00:23:13.085 --> 00:23:13.645 I think if 00:23:13.645 --> 00:23:16.035 I've done a good job at anything, it's listening to them, it's 00:23:16.035 --> 00:23:19.425 taking in having a culture where you can say, that's a good idea. 00:23:19.425 --> 00:23:20.635 But how about if we, 00:23:20.770 --> 00:23:21.290 Victoria: we, if 00:23:21.375 --> 00:23:22.305 Peter: we looked at it a different way? 00:23:22.305 --> 00:23:25.635 How about if we did something differently and you've got to be able to have 00:23:25.925 --> 00:23:27.755 Victoria: an open dialogue. 00:23:27.775 --> 00:23:29.705 Peter: You've got to be able have an management team where you 00:23:29.705 --> 00:23:31.745 can have a debate and you can, 00:23:32.015 --> 00:23:36.485 you can do that without insulting people and do it outside of an element of fear. 00:23:36.731 --> 00:23:37.889 Victoria: Yeah, it's great. 00:23:37.889 --> 00:23:41.220 Um, did you always know that you wanted to be in chemicals, right? 00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:45.190 Because, uh, while that's one of the family businesses, I know that your 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:50.110 siblings all are leading different parts of the Huntsman empire, if I 00:23:50.110 --> 00:23:54.050 can call it that, or in politics or in public life in different ways. 00:23:54.070 --> 00:23:55.730 Does, did you know? 00:23:56.385 --> 00:24:00.205 Peter: There was a point for probably about 15 years where all of my 00:24:00.205 --> 00:24:02.235 siblings were in the company together. 00:24:02.755 --> 00:24:03.775 Um, and 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.480 Victoria: was that? 00:24:04.840 --> 00:24:04.860 Yeah. 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:05.780 Am I allowed to ask that? 00:24:05.875 --> 00:24:06.145 Peter: Yeah. 00:24:06.145 --> 00:24:07.065 People ask that all the time. 00:24:07.415 --> 00:24:11.685 I can genuinely say I never had a major disagreement, never 00:24:11.685 --> 00:24:12.575 had an argument with any of 00:24:12.575 --> 00:24:13.225 my siblings. 00:24:13.295 --> 00:24:16.705 We might, we might've disagreed on decisions that would be made past, but 00:24:17.015 --> 00:24:21.550 we'd always, In private, shut the door, sit down, talk to our differences. 00:24:21.980 --> 00:24:23.760 And I attribute a lot of that to my father. 00:24:23.770 --> 00:24:26.670 I mean, he put the family, the relationships in the family, and so 00:24:26.670 --> 00:24:28.660 forth, came before anything else. 00:24:28.730 --> 00:24:30.170 That loyalty and so forth. 00:24:30.520 --> 00:24:31.060 If I could 00:24:31.330 --> 00:24:33.900 it's a public company, it doesn't make any sense, but if I could 00:24:33.900 --> 00:24:36.770 have all my siblings, my brothers and sisters coming back into 00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:39.250 the company, working with them again, I'd do it in a second. 00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:43.130 I started in the company as a truck driver and I used to deliver fuels 00:24:43.190 --> 00:24:45.080 and pick up fuels in refineries. 00:24:45.170 --> 00:24:46.970 And I was always fascinated with refining. 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.650 And when I was waiting in line to load up, I got to 00:24:49.660 --> 00:24:51.160 meet truck drivers, or I got to 00:24:51.170 --> 00:24:52.160 meet people in the refinery. 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.370 They'd take me around and, show you how a cat cracker works. 00:24:55.370 --> 00:24:58.980 And, you know, how all these, you know, coking units and, and, 00:24:59.010 --> 00:25:00.740 and, alkylation units and so forth. 00:25:01.350 --> 00:25:04.040 And I was just fascinated with, with all those processes. 00:25:04.050 --> 00:25:06.940 Started buying some books on engineering and process design, 00:25:06.970 --> 00:25:10.560 teaching myself , how do you go from crude oil to gasoline to asphalt oil, 00:25:10.950 --> 00:25:12.670 and then subsequently into chemicals. 00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:15.380 And, so our family, when I started the company, our family 00:25:15.380 --> 00:25:16.400 had kind of two companies. 00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:17.630 One of them was a plastics company. 00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:21.560 The other one was a trucking gas station company. 00:25:21.570 --> 00:25:25.280 And I, I wanted to, I rose to the point where I was running the gas 00:25:25.280 --> 00:25:27.220 station trucking side of the business. 00:25:27.770 --> 00:25:31.350 And tried to convince my dad, true story, tried to convince him to 00:25:31.350 --> 00:25:32.600 get out of the chemical business. 00:25:32.600 --> 00:25:35.260 Our future would be in trucking and gas stations. 00:25:35.570 --> 00:25:38.710 Especially with 7 Eleven, you know, they were talking about always going, 00:25:38.710 --> 00:25:39.760 they'd always be going out of business. 00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:42.190 Circle K, we could buy, this was back in the 80s. 00:25:42.990 --> 00:25:43.670 My father 00:25:43.790 --> 00:25:46.230 said we gotta, we can only take one of these paths. 00:25:46.820 --> 00:25:49.750 And I, I presented what I thought was a very compelling argument 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:53.000 as to why we ought to get out of plastics and get into trucking. 00:25:53.020 --> 00:25:54.270 He came on a Monday. 00:25:54.320 --> 00:25:56.060 We did this on a Thursday or Friday. 00:25:56.110 --> 00:25:59.010 He came on a Monday and he said, I'm going to go with the plastic side. 00:25:59.040 --> 00:25:59.860 I was devastated. 00:25:59.860 --> 00:26:02.887 I thought for sure he'd pick the local trucking. 00:26:02.927 --> 00:26:07.347 I mean, this, this is a great business and it was, you know, that you could see and 00:26:07.347 --> 00:26:09.127 feel and touch the products is chemical 00:26:09.142 --> 00:26:09.592 Victoria: is really 00:26:09.897 --> 00:26:11.127 Peter: It was really cool stuff. 00:26:11.127 --> 00:26:14.507 And he said, last night I had one of our neighbors. 00:26:15.482 --> 00:26:17.202 I tell you the name of the neighbor, but he's still alive. 00:26:17.202 --> 00:26:17.572 So I want 00:26:18.282 --> 00:26:20.532 our neighbors called me up and said, he went by one of our 00:26:20.532 --> 00:26:24.442 convenience stores and bought a box of raisin bran and it was stale. 00:26:25.197 --> 00:26:27.847 I said, yeah, who goes and buys a perishable item at a grocery 00:26:27.847 --> 00:26:29.397 store or at a gas station? 00:26:29.697 --> 00:26:32.467 My father said, Peter, I don't want to be in a business where 00:26:32.467 --> 00:26:35.987 my neighbors are calling me over a stale box of Raisin Bran. 00:26:36.367 --> 00:26:37.717 said, I don't want to be in a local business. 00:26:37.717 --> 00:26:41.237 I want to be in something that's global and something that's not in my backyard. 00:26:41.487 --> 00:26:44.167 So we sold all the gas stations, trucking and everything. 00:26:44.167 --> 00:26:45.767 We put that money into chemicals, 00:26:46.392 --> 00:26:48.912 Victoria: And did you know that you were going to stay and do 00:26:48.912 --> 00:26:49.222 Peter: chemicals? 00:26:49.342 --> 00:26:50.937 I I was really discouraged. 00:26:50.937 --> 00:26:53.017 I thought this is, this is just devastating. 00:26:53.017 --> 00:26:56.287 I went and talked to a company called Sinclair, uh, used 00:26:56.287 --> 00:26:57.467 to be run by Earl Holding. 00:26:57.527 --> 00:27:00.497 I went and actually met with Earl Holding at the time and said, and 00:27:00.497 --> 00:27:01.507 he was kind of like, you crazy. 00:27:01.507 --> 00:27:03.147 Your father's got this great company. 00:27:03.147 --> 00:27:04.087 Go work for your father. 00:27:04.407 --> 00:27:05.797 Uh, you're not part of my family. 00:27:05.797 --> 00:27:07.617 Cause his family's was, was running the company. 00:27:08.097 --> 00:27:11.857 And my dad, we just bought a polypropylene plant in New Jersey. 00:27:12.217 --> 00:27:16.937 And so he, I got a job in the New Jersey chemical plant in charge of quality 00:27:16.937 --> 00:27:20.527 and production, went out and figured out how plastics were made and within 00:27:20.527 --> 00:27:22.267 a year or so I was just kind of like. 00:27:22.732 --> 00:27:23.592 This is the future. 00:27:23.662 --> 00:27:23.872 It's 00:27:23.872 --> 00:27:24.622 just terrific, 00:27:24.652 --> 00:27:24.862 Victoria: right? 00:27:24.862 --> 00:27:26.952 That was the line in The Graduate, wasn't it? 00:27:26.952 --> 00:27:28.242 The future is chemicals? 00:27:28.242 --> 00:27:28.892 Or plastics? 00:27:28.892 --> 00:27:29.212 Yeah. 00:27:29.222 --> 00:27:29.962 Peter: That's right. 00:27:30.522 --> 00:27:32.992 It's been it's been a great thing for our family. 00:27:33.092 --> 00:27:39.782 Uh, they've my father took his estate when he passed away in 2016 and put it 00:27:39.782 --> 00:27:43.972 into a foundation that virtually most not all but most of that money goes 00:27:43.972 --> 00:27:45.602 into cancer research and mental health. 00:27:46.072 --> 00:27:49.852 And the second generation runs that board that manages that foundation. 00:27:49.852 --> 00:27:52.182 And now we're starting to do likewise with 00:27:52.182 --> 00:27:53.502 our resources and so forth. 00:27:53.762 --> 00:27:57.642 so this industry, not only is it afforded, I think, you know, tens 00:27:57.642 --> 00:28:00.712 of thousands of people employment within the company and innovation, 00:28:00.712 --> 00:28:02.082 what we've done with Huntsman Corporation, 00:28:02.082 --> 00:28:07.312 but the proceeds and the stock values and so forth have gone to, I hope, the 00:28:07.312 --> 00:28:12.042 betterment of society, which is really the best dividend I think our, our company 00:28:12.145 --> 00:28:15.567 Victoria: I think it is, it is a phenomenal legacy. 00:28:16.342 --> 00:28:17.022 Peter: But I, I, 00:28:17.157 --> 00:28:20.097 Victoria: family has been able to build and you've participated 00:28:20.102 --> 00:28:21.612 Peter: glad, glad to be part of the 00:28:21.687 --> 00:28:22.557 Victoria: Yeah, absolutely. 00:28:22.847 --> 00:28:28.747 So, um, what advice do you have for young people entering the 00:28:28.747 --> 00:28:33.967 industry that want to be part of its success and its transformation? 00:28:33.967 --> 00:28:37.797 What advice would you have to a new person saying, should I come join this chemical 00:28:37.797 --> 00:28:39.537 company and how do I have a great career? 00:28:40.247 --> 00:28:42.067 Peter: That's really tough, but one thing that, 00:28:42.097 --> 00:28:43.557 that my father and 00:28:43.557 --> 00:28:46.767 then subsequently, uh, I did when I was president is when my 00:28:46.767 --> 00:28:50.947 younger siblings came in, they all went and worked in a facility somewhere. 00:28:50.997 --> 00:28:52.617 They all went and worked in a chemical plant. 00:28:52.657 --> 00:28:58.162 All of us have, have I was in New Jersey, my brother James was in Beaumont, Texas, 00:28:58.162 --> 00:29:01.692 my brother David was in Odessa, Texas, brother Paul was in Australia, my brother, 00:29:01.762 --> 00:29:05.852 yeah, so it was, I mean they all went and worked in different places and they 00:29:05.852 --> 00:29:10.362 all understood what it was like to work in a chemical plant, how did it actually 00:29:10.362 --> 00:29:12.172 work, how did it function and so forth. 00:29:12.422 --> 00:29:15.032 It's one thing to, to sell chemicals, one thing to look at 00:29:15.032 --> 00:29:17.262 it as part of your, your portfolio. 00:29:17.537 --> 00:29:18.897 It's quite another thing to understand. 00:29:18.977 --> 00:29:20.847 How are the molecules bad? 00:29:20.857 --> 00:29:22.147 How do you actually do that? 00:29:22.457 --> 00:29:25.697 And who are the people that actually do that for you? 00:29:25.697 --> 00:29:26.627 And, you know, 00:29:26.627 --> 00:29:27.717 can you relate to them? 00:29:27.737 --> 00:29:29.987 They're the people that are going to give you the productivity. 00:29:30.387 --> 00:29:32.757 They're the people who give you the quality, the innovation, 00:29:32.757 --> 00:29:34.097 the speed and so forth. 00:29:34.377 --> 00:29:37.787 They're the people when a customer runs out, they'll put a product in 00:29:37.797 --> 00:29:40.407 the back of their pickup and they'll run it out there personally because 00:29:40.407 --> 00:29:41.807 of the pride they have in the company. 00:29:41.987 --> 00:29:43.857 That's what differentiates Huntsman from its competitors. 00:29:44.022 --> 00:29:46.722 Competitors are the individual people that work in our company. 00:29:47.417 --> 00:29:47.767 Victoria: Love it. 00:29:48.157 --> 00:29:49.577 Well, Peter, thank you so much 00:29:49.642 --> 00:29:50.362 Peter: Well, thank you. 00:29:50.407 --> 00:29:51.087 Victoria: enjoyed spending 00:29:51.112 --> 00:29:51.562 Peter: a delight 00:29:51.627 --> 00:29:52.037 Victoria: today. 00:29:52.092 --> 00:29:52.332 Peter: you 00:29:52.527 --> 00:29:53.257 Victoria: Nice meeting you. 00:29:53.337 --> 00:29:54.707 Thanks everyone for listening. 00:29:54.997 --> 00:29:57.167 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:29:57.167 --> 00:29:58.697 talk with you again soon. 00:30:00.154 --> 00:30:02.314 Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. 00:30:02.654 --> 00:30:07.114 If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, 00:30:07.384 --> 00:30:10.914 and most importantly, share it with your friends and colleagues. 00:30:11.774 --> 00:30:14.664 For more insights, visit TheChemicalShow. 00:30:14.674 --> 00:30:17.194 com and connect with us on LinkedIn. 00:30:17.844 --> 00:30:21.794 You can find me at Victoria King Meyer on LinkedIn, and you can also 00:30:21.794 --> 00:30:23.744 find us at The Chemical Show Podcast. 00:30:24.154 --> 00:30:27.384 Join us next time for more conversations and strategies 00:30:27.644 --> 00:30:29.434 shaping the future of the industry. 00:30:29.804 --> 00:30:30.514 We'll see you soon.