Welcome to ChannelWaves, the podcast where channel
leaders share success strategies, best practices, and emerging
trends brought to you by StructuredWeb.
Here's your host, Steven Kellam.
Hey, welcome, everybody, ChannelWaves.
We appreciate everyone taking a
little bit of time today.
Today we're going to dig into trust and
we're going to talk about what it takes
for vendors to build trust with partners.
I think it's been interesting to talk about what
partners need to do to build trust with vendors.
And I think one of the key things
is what happens if it gets broken?
Now, I'm an optimist, and I'm going to
introduce you, Leslie, in just a second.
I have a feeling she's.
I know she's an optimist as well, too.
I would almost say what really cool things can
happen once trust is built the flip side
of what happened if trust is broken. So today.
Joining us in this discussion is Leslie Chiorazzi
Did I say that correctly?
Pretty good, Chiorazzi
Joining us today is Leslie Chiorazzi
And Leslie is the managing
partner of CMIT in Manhattan.
So welcome, Leslie.
Thank you so much, Steven.
Thanks for having me.
The reason I asked Leslie to do a
podcast is because when I met Leslie, I
felt like, well, I thought a couple things.
One is I thought, she's doing what
I did ten or twelve years ago.
So I'm slightly jealous maybe 15 years ago,
because running a managed service business was actually
sorry to everybody I'm working with today might
have been the coolest job I ever had. It was.
It was really cool.
So when I met Leslie I was like, okay, it's cool.
She's doing what I used to do.
And two, I felt like she was very opinionated.
And I say opinionated in a very good way.
And look, if you're going to run a managed
service business in New York, in Manhattan, I think
you have to have, what we say, strong convictions.
For sure, for sure, for sure.
We met at the Baptie conference. Right.
And you were talking about the ins and
outs of being a managed service provider. We did.
And then again at Forrester.
And one of the things Leslie was
talking about on stage was about that
trust relationship and how important that is.
As a matter of fact, what did
we end up calling this episode?
If you break.
Sorry.
If you break your trust, you're what?
Dead to me? Dead to me. Exactly.
I believe you said that on
stage, and that caught my attention.
I thought, look, in today's world, it's
so important to have that trust.
So what does that mean?
And how does that help the relationship?
So we're going to walk through that today.
But Leslie, before we jump into it, maybe you can
tell everybody just a little bit about who you are,
what you do, a little bit about your managed services.
Because in today, boy, managed services is a lot
more, can be a lot more, it can be
a lot different than what it was when I
was a managed service provider 15 years ago.
15 years ago, certainly, but a
lot's changed, but also nothing's changed.
So again, I own CMIT solutions in Manhattan.
My territory is Murray Hill.
CMIT Solutions is a franchise.
There are more than 250 locations across the
country, all providing managed, outsourced it maybe in
slightly different ways, maybe depending on the community
or the vertical they serve.
But I've been here for eight years now, and
my specialties really healthcare and nonprofit, along with hospitality
and yeah, we met at that conference.
And I get asked to speak quite a bit on
this topic around the vendor relationship to managed service providers
and how to sell to people like me.
And I think it's a really great topic.
I think that there's a lot to be, a lot to
be learned along with a lot here, because sometimes the people
who come up with the go to market strategies are very
far removed from the actual salespeople who are selling.
No, I agree.
And even 15 years ago, I ran into that.
I think as we go through this, we'll talk about
some of the goods, the bads, the indifference, some of
the things that change, some of the things that stay
the same, and I think some of the things that
we can do on both sides to make it work.
So before we dig into the trust, maybe
we can start just your take on the
relationship between a partner and a vendor.
Anyways, today, what is that relationship in your mind?
What does it need to look like?
What's the value of that?
How do you view that relationship?
Vendor, you, customer, sorry.
You know, it's a, it's a big ecosystem,
you know, albeit we need each other, the
customers need me to bring solutions to them,
to help them run and protect their business.
The partners that I work with need to bring in sales.
We need to have those relationships in order
to sell to my clients, because often they
do not have that relationship with the customer.
They're just selling to channel people.
And I think that that ecosystem
has to have quite a balance.
The vendors have to understand what I need, I
have to let them know what I need, and
we have to set equal expectations around that.
I would imagine that if I called the vendor
all the time for quotes, but never use them.
Would they rush to answer those quotes for me?
If I do business with someone who doesn't come through in
the way they told me, if the expectations they set are
not met, you know what I'm going to say.
They're likely dead to me.
So, you know, but that ecosystem can be very well fed.
There are times that I learn about something new
that I'm not even offering yet or that a
client doesn't have a need for yet.
I think a lot of vendors sometimes don't understand that
the SMB market does not ask for specific services.
They're not asking for things.
We are making recommendations based on what
we see in their infrastructure or what
they need for growth or protection.
So when they come to me and say, well, when a
customer asks for this, and I'm like, no, the customer has
never heard of that, they're not asking for that.
But it's great for me to get educated by the vendor.
So then when I see the need
somewhere, we can then apply it.
We can then work together.
But I do think there is a very special
relationship because know who you're going to go to
for what in most cases, especially if they are
doing the right thing by you. Okay.
And that can mean a lot of things, Steven. Yeah.
Well, let's start with, so how do you build that trust?
Right.
Let's take it all from a
foundational level, kind of both ways. What do you.
You've been doing this for a
little while, I would assume, right? Actually, yeah.
You've been doing this for this job
at CMIT for over eight years, right? Correct.
So it's the same thing a client looks for in me.
You're going to do business with who you like,
trust, or think are smart for the most part. Right.
They understand their product, they are available to you,
they educate, they give you fair pricing and so
forth, or they're the only one in the market.
Because I often ask vendors, especially when I'm in
a room with seven people selling the same thing.
What's your differentiator?
Why you versus the next one?
As we know, many of these
services have become a commodity.
So I can go to multiple people for
the same exact thing, so why choose them?
And I think over the years, I
have relationships with certain people that way.
Even if they move to other companies, I'm still working with
them because it's them who I have the relationship with and
who I know is going to take care of me.
In some instances, though, it's the product and you have
to take a chance on the person you work.
But at the end of the day,
we're all people working with people.
It's not like it's just about the service, because you
can likely get that replicated from many other places.
Same as I would say to my clients, why choose me?
You know, I have to make sure that I
have something to offer that makes them decide to
do business with me versus the next MSP.
I like what you said, that people do business with
people that they like, they trust and think are smart.
I think that brings it in, that
brings it into focus pretty narrowly.
I do a question for you, I've
got lots of questions for you.
The first one is, and maybe it's a little bit
different now, how many key vendors do you work with?
Back in my day I was managed service provider
and I sold somewhat similar to you, I sold to
between 50 and 400 people credits for that mid market.
And I probably had five key vendors that
made off my managed service and then I
had other commodities I could work around.
I mean, I'm curious what it's,
what it's like today for you.
Well, I would say that a bit of a difference,
being part of a franchise is a little bit more
power in the marketplace because we have, you know, there's
a lot of buying power when you have 250 owners
serving, you know, thousands of customers.
So I would say there is a vetted portion
of this that is required as a franchisee.
But unlike a Starbucks, I can bake and
sell my own brownies if I choose.
And also the stack has become that much more diverse.
MSP's aren't answering just support anymore, we're answering
connectivity, we're answering cloud movement and migration, we're
answering licensing along with security, of course, and
in some cases physical equipment.
So many I don't know that I can click off how many.
And sometimes I don't only use one VoIP
provider, one security provider, one connectivity provider.
So it's better to be more concise
and to have and grow those relationships.
But there is a lot these days that
we have to make part of our offering.
So where you might have worked with five
or eight, probably working with 15 at high
points, is that better or worse?
Depends competitively.
It depends on what?
Yeah, it depends on what.
And again, I'm looking for a differentiator in some
cases, who does this the best or who does
this the closest or well, because ultimately the trust
relationship with the client is mine.
So I have to bring in people that offer
up the right solutions for me at the right
price, I think it was easier for me.
And you can tell me what you think, because actually
people want to listen to you today and not me.
But when I only had five, it was easier
for me to build a trust because it was
just a smaller, it was just a smaller number. Right.
And so I was interacting more often with the
same group and in my size of an organization,
it was just easier with that number.
When you start to get to eight to
15 and building that trust on a regular
basis, I could see that get somewhat extended.
Okay, two part question.
I also think it'd be really cool.
Those people that you build a great trust with in
those 15, it's going to be a big differentiator because
you feel like you can rely on them versus it
being kind of like wait and see sort of stuff.
Well, I would say in certain areas, with certain solutions,
it's definitely one or two, but I don't think you
can only have one vendor for each thing.
I think that is sometimes a problem, both
from a cost perspective, from a support perspective.
Same as the reason that people don't have an
IT employee anymore and have a team outsourced, because
you need to have backup to that solution.
If someone leaves, moves, sells, their company
changes hands, you lose your account rep,
it might be time to move on.
And I've seen that happen, certainly even
in my short tenure in this business.
So I think it has its ups and its downs for sure.
But I think because we're a larger entity, we get
a lot more consistent support, too, where I know there
are many MSP's out there who get switched around constantly
depending on the, you know, the size of their business.
Yeah, we're definitely, we're definitely
running in a different world.
I wasn't a franchise world, so
I didn't have that buying power. Yeah.
Okay, so let's talk about this trust.
So what do you look for in a vendor?
What differentiates them, what makes them somebody you
trust and how do they go about it? Right.
Well, I've been fortunate that over the
last couple of years, I've been part
of kind of a women's technical organization.
So I've met a lot of channel partners through there,
and that has led to both referrals from them as
well as business to them, which has been great and
probably unheard of for the most part for women, especially
MSP's, because there's not a lot of female owned MSP's.
But I think I would say the most important thing around
the vendor relationship for me is someone who is going to
take the ball and run with it to completion.
Someone whose job I don't have to explain to them.
I sell a lot of things.
We sell one, typically, I want them to be
the expert in both delivery and support to getting
the client onboarded or educating me or my team
so that we can help support it.
Someone who is responsive, you know, and not like
next day, but really, really responsive and who cares.
I would say it's the most important thing in a client and
a vendor and an employee is you care about it a lot.
So how long does it take
you to build that relationship?
What's the Leslie trust factor, right. On this.
And, you know, it matters, right?
I'm a trust first.
Even I am a trust first.
I am not suspect of people until they make me suspect.
Okay. And maybe that's.
Maybe that's a bad, bad quality. How?
As far as forming a relationship, it's twofold.
I like what they sell and I like what they tell me
about what they sell, and then they have to prove it.
And that's the other thing is leveraging that
not in your largest client sometimes, but in
your first small client, somewhere where we can
make mistakes without a high payment.
And I'm going to find out, too.
From when you're in a franchise and there's multiple
owners, good and bad news travel really fast.
I can tell you what travels faster.
Yes, exactly.
So that's pretty interesting.
So, yeah, if it goes wrong with one of
those 250, I think everybody finds out pretty quickly.
Look, I could tell you the story
if you want to hear it.
And they are definitely dead to me.
I'm not going to mention who it is, of course. Okay.
I was going to say, you tell me your
worst story, I'll tell you my worst story.
Let's. Hold on.
I'm going to go with mine being worse. Okay. Okay.
But before we get into that and we'll come back, I
think we'll sort of wrap up with the stories because we're
going to talk about the good bad and ugly on that.
So what about the other way around?
So, you know, the vendors have to build the trust.
You're in a pretty interesting spot because you've
got 250 brethren in there that you can
go back and forth, not all.
Once again, not everybody has that.
So the vendors have to build the trust.
But what about you building the trust other way?
In your thinking of that perspective, is there a light
bulb that goes off at some point with a vendor
when they realize, hey, this company is really good and
there's huge opportunities, and they've met my criteria there.
So again, you're a little unique in that
you've got 250 people you could work with
on that, but I'm super curious.
So, Leslie, what about the other way around?
What about in today's world, the partner
proving some trust to the vendor?
What does that look like?
Today we talked a little bit about the
vendor needing to be trustworthy to the partner.
So I think something I mentioned earlier
about not asking 'zillon quotes that never
come through, not taking advantage.
I know that vendors always are asking me to go
out places and go to events and go to things.
And when you're not bringing them business, I think
after a while it gets a little, you know,
like where they either stop inviting you or kind
of looking at you sideways, that you're taking advantage
of something that you shouldn't be.
Years ago, I used to work a lot of conference tables
and, you know, javits and things like that, and we put
things out and some people would come by and just wipe
off the whole table and you'd be like, really?
I think, I'm sure that's what vendors feel
like when you come to their events and
you're not doing business with them.
But then again, it's in their best interest to
be top of mind, to be in front of
you, and to make sure that they're educating you
constantly so you can look for opportunities to partner.
So in your opinion, this trust between
the vendor and the partner, is it
getting better or is it getting worse? Right.
Is it moving in the right direction where you feel like
in the market that the alignment is getting better on that,
or is it kind of going the other way?
I don't know if it's either.
I would say there's way more competition.
I mean, I know many, many vendors, and probably
each product and service I sell, and do I
choose to just stick with one all the time,
taking care of me a certain way?
I certainly think that there is, like
I said, a great balance there.
Getting a lead from a vendor is
amazing because it almost never happens.
And sometimes I question when I go to certain events,
when it just seems to be very social, and then
all of a sudden I get a lead from a
vendor event, which is always kind of mind blowing.
And I think that's really helpful because
they want MSP's to work with them.
We become your salespeople to
sell these products and services.
We want to make sure that you're feeding us as well.
When you hear either from a customer looking at
your services or from just being out in the
marketplace that someone needs an MSP, you're likely going
to feed the people who feed you.
Yeah, I did read on your LinkedIn profile, and people can check
it out that you do like to get out and about.
I think there are some very happy photographs
that you bring out and about on your
LinkedIn profile, which is a great thing, right?
If I'm a little too social, be a great thing.
Yeah, a little too social for my own good.
But I mean, I think it's led to
the relationships that either I've gotten business from
or do business because of or with.
And I also think, you know, if you get some face time
with different people and learn a little bit about what they do
and who they are, it takes you a long way.
And we've done this both in social events, but
also in charity events, fundraising events, award nights, things
like that, where we come out for the people
that we support and support us.
I think I saw that you were a big soccer fan on that.
I thought I saw a post on that. Right?
I had a great opportunity.
Nothing better than a Yankee fan who gets
to see their brand in Yankee Stadium.
Okay, that's pretty cool.
Do you want to tell me a little bit about that?
What was that all about?
I decided now that if I do not stay working
as an MSP, that I can be a lobbyist.
It took so much work to get a bunch of
tri-state owners to kick in for this opportunity to
advertise with NYCFC and become an associate partner.
This brilliant idea comes out of the UK.
Our company called Eleven and Eleven was
looking for 30 relevant small businesses in
the area for this opportunity.
None to kind of overlap.
And they were everything from construction,
window washing, nursing homes, it.
And with that, we're at every home game, we're
up on the digital signage, on the televisions.
We get to network and socialize with each other.
It's really been a fun opportunity.
And I am a soccer fan.
I am a Yankee fan.
So it was great.
Like the first time it ever came up, I
think it was on Father's Day two years ago.
And their social channels are really.
They've highlighted me, they've done some stuff for me and
for the rest of the northeast, and it's been great.
It was kind of cool.
I would think that the vendors really like that.
You said that.
I would think, you know, if you've got.
If you've got partners who are getting out there
and connecting, I would view that from the vendor
perspective as you know, that's a great opportunity that
someone wants to go out, have connections that's going
to help me get connected.
My ultimate customer, that's a
really, really good thing.
I also think that on the side of it being,
like, fueled by women, you know, a lot of us
have really been able to lift each other up.
I'm of that age where there was only room for one.
And I worked for my mother,
who had a woman owned business.
She was an entrepreneur.
There's a lot of women in my office.
This business does not leverage
itself to that many females.
And I think that there was a
lot of backbiting when I was younger.
So when I see these women mentoring each other
and helping each other and looking for opportunities both
to socialize together, but also to work together and
learn about their products and services, that inspires me.
I also have two daughters, so I look at it for
them as well, that there'll be room for more than one.
Okay, I'm in the two daughter club, so I can have this.
I'm a feminist, and I'm in the two
daughter club, so I can add this.
I can have this conversation.
And one of the things that attracted me to you
as well, too, is I just thought, look, if there's
a woman who can run a managed service business in
New York, in Manhattan, that's freaking cool.
That's the first thing I thought about
is, like, how cool is that?
Well, when I was a managed service provider, I'm
not so sure I met a woman that was
running a managed service at that point. I know it.
I know it.
80% were men. I would say I had about 20, and that was, I
thought about 80/20 split male female back to that point.
Right?
Which is pretty good.
But I would, you know, it's like, I complain to some
of the larger vendors, I go to events, and all the
women on the main stage are marketing or HR.
They're never head of tech, they're never
head of engineering, none of that.
I think that'll change.
Here's where I think it's changing this.
We're doing total objective.
It's one thing.
I'm seeing more women in the channel, leading sales,
and it used to be in marketing, and I'm
seeing, like, two of the best sales, just people
I know in the channel right now.
And I don't actually, you know, my
dad made me colorblind, gender blind.
I don't even think about it.
So I'm just like, oh, yeah, you're great at
what you do, but I had to notice because
of my daughters and paying attention to that. Right.
I mean, just, you have to that, you know, how do you
get past, and by the way, it's very cool to do marketing.
It's very cool to do HR.
No doubt, no doubt.
Nice to see it expand out to the sales. Right.
Well, that to me is not surprising
just because I feel like women are
always leveraged in the sales opportunity.
Maybe not in the channel as much as
now, but I would love to see there
be more on the tech side, especially in
the larger companies, a little bit more representation.
You know, it is what it is.
Okay, well, you know, sound like someone who, like,
accepts it is what it is very often.
So you can say that, but I don't actually.
Yeah, it's difficult.
It's difficult to get people to, you know, go down
this track and then they have to be competitive.
So, you know, it's, you know, that's
why it lends itself where it is.
You know, I think it
will get there, especially technology.
I think part of the reason for that is this,
things were larger, heavy to carry, all those things where
now with so much more being tiny and cloud based,
there's a lot less flapping stuff.
Well, actually that changed a lot of things.
I was thinking that changed how MDF
worked, it changed how product got demonstrated.
So that's pretty fast.
Is the first time I thought about that and
how who could actually physically do the role.
That's actually a great point.
I admit I've been doing this for a while.
I never actually thought about that.
Okay.
That's actually pretty cool thought.
Okay, so gender aside, you've got the vendor and the
partner relationship, all the good things we talk about.
So what happens when a vendor breaks that and you
can tell your story and I'll tell my horror story.
Let's talk about what it happens when it breaks and
then we tell a story and then I'm interested.
Have any vendors actually won it back
or once it's broken, it's gone?
So that's a three part question.
Well, you know, I will say, in thinking about
our discussion, one of the things that I considered
was how they handle things when they go wrong.
Because as an MSP, as you'd imagine,
I often compare us to an ER. Right?
Some people are going to die.
Some people are going to leave with a limp.
Other people are going to leave perfectly fine.
We are never going to be
perfect, never going to be 100%.
It's not the nature of technology or the work we do.
So we need to set client expectations,
same as vendors need to set hours.
Here's what needs to happen to get the job done right.
We need to empower the vendor to get through the job.
If they screw up, there needs to be
an opening for them to make it right.
And that is the second part to it.
It's not just getting it right 100%
of the time because that's not real.
You know, things are going to happen.
But making sure that when you reach out to
them, whether it be on a Saturday night, when
they're off on their yacht cruise, or they are
at home on a Monday morning working remotely, that
they're responding to what's wrong, that they're answering that
ticket, that they're escalating that issue because the salesperson
often, you know, has no control over the implementation,
just like I don't.
I'm not that technical.
You know, it's on my team to get
that done, and we have to make sure
that we set the expectations of the client.
So I think it's threefold. Right.
It's doing the best job you've represented. Right.
If the vendor tells me the expectation, the report's going
to take 20 days, but it takes 80, I'm going
to be upset and so is the client, and the
client's going to be upset with me.
And if I'm passing on that trust relationship, right.
The client doesn't know who my salesperson is.
The client knows me, so everything comes back to me.
So they have to be an extension
of how I would handle things.
And that's kind of the first part to it.
Getting it right. Yay.
We're all happy. When it goes wrong.
I need to be able to reach out, and
they don't go, well, I don't handle that part.
They find the person, they escalate the issue.
They give me the home phone numbers of whoever I
need to call to make sure my client is satisfied
with what we brought in, because if that doesn't happen,
then I won't be using them again for sure.
And if they handle the problem correctly, sometimes the tool
or the service we buy is fantastic, but if the
delivery is not there, you're already put off.
Like, I shouldn't have done this.
Why did we do this? This is not good.
This is not what they told me.
We were selling to the customer and that's happened.
But I think giving them the space to make mistakes
is fine as long as they're going to handle that.
But really the best partner for me is
someone who I hand off the business to.
I tee it up for us to both
be successful and they get it done.
And if there are blips or service needed after,
they're not like, oh, that's not my part, they
actually get the rest of it done.
So it's out of my hands.
They all claim they can do it,
but not all of them will.
So what's your horror story?
Ah, this is good.
You ready for this? I'm ready. All right.
Unnamed VoIP supplier.
So I worked with a customer, a very large
client, for two rounds of demos around this.
And instead of just bringing in one vendor, I
brought in several that acted as the bar. Right.
I wanted to be the value added resource,
come in with a consultative approach and not
just like lead somebody by the hand.
It's this person, right?
So that's what I did.
I did that twice.
Never charged the client to do the
work, just acted as the consultant.
Second round, I spoke to their incumbent, who was charging them
a little bit more money than they should, started to have
a pretty good relationship with them, and talked to them about
what it would take to save the client, what we wanted
it to look like be priced at.
And they came in really well.
So I brought in two vendors to the client and
I said, we can't really pick a bad choice here.
You know, we can, but it is going to be heavier
lifts to move off this one and go to that one
where we can just save money and do all the other
things you want to do with this one.
Now, the other vendor, more famous, much bigger, and
had a lot of good tools, the clients.
So like a couple weeks before they made a
decision, I share this account with another it person.
Walk them in, and I thought, oh,
good, he's supporting me on this. This is great.
We'll do this together.
When it came down to it, they picked the larger
supplier and we started to have a battle over.
And I registered this deal.
I used the section, the vertical that I
needed to for expertise along with enterprise.
Because it was a larger deal.
I did all the right things.
Suddenly my registration was missing.
And they basically, instead of taking the position
that I had, started all paperwork, they said,
we're going to go first to ink.
Well, CEO was with the other person, the COO
was me, and the other person got the deal.
And so I will never sell that vendor
again because they could have taken the position.
They should have.
Why register a deal if you're
not going to hold that registration?
Why bother going through all these steps?
They had all the paperwork, they had all
of the messaging back and forth, and they
still let the customer decide, which is okay.
I understand their position to a certain degree,
and I think there was a lot of
untruths in the middle of that somehow.
But I said, from now on, if I ever do that
much work again, I'm going to charge the client or tell
the client, because the client also then found out, like what?
How the payouts go, which they should never have
known because I never charged them a dime. Nor would I.
But next time I would just say, if I'm going to
put in all this work to the phone system and you
don't use me, there's going to be a charge for it.
It was a lot of money, too.
The SPIF was a lot.
Here's the thing, having run, I've run the technology
side of incentives and deal registrations and all that.
That's what I've been doing for the past
15 years, since I left, being a partner.
People ask me about deal registration all the time.
There's a lot of advantages to both sides on it. Right.
Because the vendor can understand the pipeline and
the partner is supposedly protected on that.
It's so key for everything.
And when it runs well, it runs really well.
But that's just like, that's Cardinal sin number one.
If.
If you don't adhere to that,
you're, you're, you're dead to me.
That was, that was a tough burn, but
that's one of those lessons that you, you
learn hard and you don't do it again.
There's no, my perspective.
There's no coming back from that.
Yeah.
And, you know, again, I think, I don't like
to take a negative approach to these things. Right.
Brush it off. Next. What's new? What's happening?
What are we doing?
Because if you sit yourself in that space, you'll
just think everybody's a crook and everybody lies.
And, you know, I never want to be like that.
I really enjoy learning about
new products and services.
I really enjoy working with different people, especially
great people, because I've worked with many more
fantastic, helpful, educated resources than the opposite.
And, you know, I just, that was
just, you know, not a great day.
Well, now, one of the things that I
thought was interesting and when you were doing
your presentation is I found you very positive
and very upbeat and very enthusiastic.
That's why I reached out to do podcast.
But I also felt like if someone did something like that,
as you said, they were dead to you, which is what
you said on stage, what the audience repeated back to me,
which was the best part of that whole afternoon. Whoa.
Oh, absolutely.
Look, my story, I'll tell it pretty quickly.
It's very similar deal registration.
We took a vendor into a, it
was a city account, city wide account.
It was a pretty big account, and we were mid
sized partner, and we went and did all of it.
You got the whole thing going, and they
turned it over to a regional partner.
And then I found out that the salesperson
ran the deal for the vendor's spouse, worked
for that company that came in and took.
And that was a huge deal for us. Right.
For us in the hundreds and hundreds of thousands.
It was a pretty big annual deal.
And I was shell shocked.
I was like, is this for real? Same thing.
My deal, registration.
I'm not sure where I got lost and
what, and what was I going to do?
There was nothing I could do, but I was
like, you just burned that bridge so, so bad.
I also, you know, I want to put
my head on a pillow at night.
I would never have done the opposite.
The funny thing is, and the other it
person became involved, all I could think about
was, what should I give him?
Like, maybe I should give him a split.
Like, you know, I really wanted to be generous
about it and that, that really, like, burned doubly.
Yeah, yeah, I know.
And I'm the same thing.
That was not self shocking,
but, you know, he's suffering.
He's suffering the consequences of it already.
So, you know, it's like, no, you know, it's no skin.
I've, you know, long gone past it, but I
will never do business with that particular company again.
Even if the client asked, I'd
probably tell them the story. Yeah.
You know, from my perspective, it
just wasn't worth the time anymore. And same thing.
What are you going to do about it?
I just wrote it off and just moved on.
You find an alternative, it just makes the best of it.
Life's too short for that. Yep, yep. 100%.
And like I said, I, you know, I have, one of
the things that I find so interesting about VoIP is, you
know, there are many people who just use one vendor.
It's easier to do that.
You know, same dashboard if you need help.
Same this, same that.
But for me, I love VoIP as a business solution.
I love the idea that customers have certain requirements
that not every carrier can meet, along with the
fact that it's not all their own.
So maybe they have a third party contact center
or they have, and I'm still a fan of
the outsource of that, but there are so many
pieces to put together and really bring somebody something
great with the ability to grow their business because
of it, versus just picking up and saying hello
and setting up a call flow or having IVR.
There's so much more to be gained now.
And that's the part I find
so interesting in that space.
Okay, so let's wrap it up.
Listening to the partner and trusting how they
need to take in that information to be
able to do how to get educated.
It's not like, I think in some semblance, the
world with some of the videos, we've lost the
essence of what are we trying to get across?
Are we trying to just say something glitzy?
Are we actually trying to educate?
And small amounts.
I just want to add something that I was just
on a call the other day and I was working
with a VoIP provider and they have kind of hyper
care in place for the first 90 days.
And I thought a lot about that as an MSP as well.
When you first onboard a client, they need a much
more direct line from you than they do three months,
six months, a year down the road in most cases.
And I think developing that and making sure that
their initial onboard is handheld, especially with VoIP, because
VoIP applies to everything, because it's like if the
connectivity is bad, your computers might work, but your
phones will experience it, right?
They don't take up a lot of bandwidth, but
they're also super important to most people's businesses, even
if they're not using a physical phone.
So I think a bunch of handholding upfront in that kind of
space is something else I look like for in a vendor.
The fact that there's going to be support and that
I hate using that term one throat to choke.
I'd much rather have one back to
pat any day of the week.
So that's interesting that you say that. Right.
So I think a trust thing there and
the vendors is, I love that customer.
In the beginning for me, I looked at it as
like over that first 90 days, they could even make
the renewal for me and my life, for my whole
team really, really great for the next two years, or
they could make it miserable for six months.
That's 100% right. 100% right.
Two options, right.
And I was like, all you have to do is, here's the deal.
The thing that I cared most about in all my
implementations is my project manager had to get a 95%
plus CSAT rating on the setup and the installation.
That was my biggest metric because I knew, by
the way, this is 15 years ago, right?
And I knew that that was
going to make all the difference.
And I had some vendors that really
bought into that and some that didn't.
Once again, the ones that did,
they were the ones I used. Right.
Because I wanted those people to love us. Right? Yep.
You wanted the care, and they wanted the care from you.
But it also, I talk a lot
about what is the client's love language?
You know, do they need follow up?
Do they need details?
Do they need a call right back?
Or do they need you to just communicate? We're on it.
We got you.
So I think paying attention to that,
back to their expectation and their trust,
is, what do they need from you?
If you're not giving it, you're gone.
Well, see, you're dead to me. You're gone.
This is, what if I'm a vendor, this is
what I want to hear from my partner.
That's what's going to help me build trust in
my partner, is because they're actually listening to what
does that client need over that period of time?
Because we all have that same goal over that first
beginning of that 90 days to get the client in
a great space just to add to it.
Steven, part of the Forrester thing that was a big
deal to me was the fact that, again, you have
these big heads of companies at these events.
And what I hope they take from what
they see here is the fact that sometimes
the strategy doesn't match, you know, where, you
know, three layers down what it looks like.
Like we used to always say to my, an older
boss of mine, like, you're not the one in front
of the customer, so you don't get it.
This is what I'm hearing in the marketplace, and I'll
tell you the biggest thing for MSP's, to me, the
biggest shift, we might have to hide this.
You know, back in the day when you were
doing this, right, it was, it was newer.
I mean, it still had been around for a
while, but part of the relationship was the expectation
that you weren't going to be there a lot.
It wasn't a co-manage thing. They were used to.
Larry, who lives up two blocks
away, coming by whenever something broke.
And MSP was a little bit of
a larger engagement with a monthly retainer.
Now, many of the sales opportunities I come across
for requests, for proposals that I'm answering, want to
see somebody, whether it's on a monthly call, whether
it's in a quarterly meeting, whether it's a technician
that comes by, want to leave for 3 hours,
they want more engagement, they want more handholding, more
touchy feely, because everything they do is connect technology.
And even people who think they're technical don't often
want to touch anything or mess with anything.
They want help and.
Or they want a special engagement for the
VIP's in their office, things like that.
And that, to me, is the
current shift of what's happening.
So our vendors are going to have to
shift with us to more handholding, to more
being part of our actual team, in some
cases, to support clients, especially in the beginning.
And I agree.
Okay, my second nightmare story is I worked
in the winery business, and, I mean, I
had, like, really nice wines, and this whole
managed service thing was starting to come around.
And we made all these promises with our vendors, and we
went in there and we basically were telling them, we don't
need to be here to take care of you.
And we sort of missed the point that they
missed, and they expected Larry to come around.
And even though we did a great job, they let us go.
Six months later, I remember sitting in a
bar in Napa, and the general manager came
over and he's got a case of wine.
And it was like 2007 Pritchard Hill.
I mean, it was nice stuff.
And he fired me with a really nice case of wine.
He goes, look, you guys are really good.
But my owner, that's not, what? Not for him.
Not for him.
And that's the thing.
You don't figure that out.
If you don't find out what that is almost right from
the start, you're gonna find it out from a problem.
Usually, you know, I think going over
the expectations is that much more critical. That's.
I mean, RFPs are usually stacked for a specific
vendor, whether it's, you know, something regulated, where they
have to go to RFP every couple of years,
or whether, you know, Larry's daughter now has an
MSP that they know they're gonna give it to.
But you do get the parameters, and if you're
answering to them right, and you're setting a proposal,
and they said, well, you told us we were
gonna have somebody here every Tuesday from nine to
twelve, and you don't need that.
You probably don't. Pretty interesting.
I learned to ask questions a lot better after that,
and to make sure that those questions were funneled up
a lot better after that as well, too.
So that was a big if.
You're not learning from those mistakes. Dead. Yeah.
No, no, absolutely.
And my vendor wasn't very happy.
I wasn't very happy, but I
never made at mistake again.
Hey, I want to go down a track real quickly before
we wrap up that I wasn't even going to go down. Sure.
Because I'm in the platform and I'm in
demand generation business, I thought I would ask,
so how do you view MDF?
How do you view demand generation help
with co-branding of materials and information?
You're part of a big group.
Do you guys get a lot of MDF funding?
Do you get a, you know, a
through channel marketing automation platform or anything
like that to do demand generation?
So maybe I'm not
understanding the question specifically.
Are you talking about support from
the vendors that we work with?
Right, so, yeah, yeah.
So MDF market development, MDF dollars that
they give to you for marketing, digital
advertising, any sort of demand generation activities.
So the larger vendors that work with us that
like are vetted and we have to use to
support the marketing efforts of our home office, I
believe along with us, depending on our spend.
So, you know, I have thrown
like a security awareness breakfast.
The vendor, you know, that I put in
paperwork for and the vendor supported the breakfast.
I don't ask for it all that much, only
because I don't necessarily go and go down the
track of educating around one particular product.
It's usually the whole, not that they necessarily need
that, they just need to know the parameters in
order to support you, but I think it's great.
I think it's helpful.
I think that even I'm about to do.
We have our CMIT conference in November and I had asked
if I could do a session because a lot of the
time franchisee led sessions are the more popular ones.
We learned something from you and I think I'm going to
partner with a vendor in that one to be able to
benefit what I was going to talk about in the first
place, which was kind of farming your current client base.
So we're looking to put together some type
of template to help not only me, but
all of the owners across the country.
So, you know, clients, if you're doing the right
job, they want more, they're consuming more, not less.
They're not cutting your engagement.
They're saying, what else do we need?
Come in every year, tell us how old our
machines are, where there might be security gaps, should
we migrate to cloud, do we need more equipment?
Whatever it is.
And I think that lends itself to
vendors wanting to support that too, obviously.
So back to your question.
MDF is important, but a lot of franchise owners, in my
opinion, don't know it exists as far as for themselves.
Interesting.
Here's one of the interesting things for me
is I sold risk mitigation and business continuity.
I always had vendors coming to
me, look, this is traditional.
I had the traditional group of vendors back then.
It's not hard to figure out.
servers, laptop security.
It's pretty straightforward stuff.
I said I sold risk mitigation
and business continuity, and I'm back.
I'm thrilled that I'm a gold
or a platinum partner for you. And I use a backstop.
The message I was trying to get up is
your lights are always on and it's always secure.
And you could.
15 years ago, vendors didn't get that and
all the stuff they would hand me for
marketing were just about their product, right.
I do think it's getting better to the
point where I think some of them are
starting to understand how to blend that message.
And there are AI tools and things
out there that are pretty interesting.
And I'll show you one of the things that
we do that allows you to take your message
and their message and blend it together for a
quick email campaign, which is great.
It's really, really cool stuff.
You got to be able to blend it.
And it's funny, historically, through channel
marketing automation, tech platforms didn't get
a lot of partners coming in.
Because just putting your logo on
a vendor's collateral, right, not enough.
And if you can't speak well to it, like forget it.
And it's not your value prop anyways.
I kept thinking about it.
I was like, why are the vendors missing your
value prop is your relationship and everything went and
understand what that client wants, when, where and how.
Right?
So help me figure out how to do that.
And I think AI and where technology is going, pretty soon
you're going to have like a little, we call it a
marketing assistant, that you'll just sit there and you could just
ask it for collateral and it'll have all of your information
in there and it'll crown email or a landing page or
anything you want to do collateral for when you go to
one of those events and it'll blend the message and you
don't have to spend four days doing it.
I think that's pretty cool.
And I think a lot of vendors are going to start sending
that sort of stuff your way, you know, to circle back.
I was talking with a particular vendor yesterday
and they were like, well, when your clients
asked for and this and that, and I
was like, my clients don't ask for that.
They're never going to know what that is. Educate me.
Where is the opportunity? So I can look for it.
When I'm talking to clients or prospects, let me know.
Like, to me, this particular problem, this particular
company, the opportunity is if I talk to
a prospect who already has that and I
need to move it, that makes sense.
But to initiate that step, most of the customers that
we work with do not need certain things that, you
know, I don't know who's buying from them.
I am pretty sure there are larger customers
out there that 100% need what they have.
But I said, educate me.
Tell me where the opportunity is, and I'll
let you know if it's something that I
come across or it's something I'll look for.
Like, I have a client who doesn't answer phone calls.
Like, they just don't.
They get 65% of their calls.
They're losing a fortune.
I've been telling them this for the last four years,
and when I intimated that we should get a inbound,
outbound call center for them, they were like, no way.
They're used to this person answering the phone or
that person answering the phone, I said, okay.
All of a sudden, they came around.
Now they've come so far around, they're ready
for it to be an AI receptionist.
And I'm like, wait, how did we go from
Joan answering, not answering the phone to AI?
So we're still working on the opportunity.
But it is kind of funny because, you
know, want to make sure you don't miss
any calls, and voicemail is not enough.
And if you are a medical practice and a new
patient call, you don't pick up, guess what they're doing?
Calling somebody else right away.
They are not leaving a voicemail.
It's a new patient, most likely.
Okay, I will.
Look, this has been. This has been great.
I appreciate you taking all this time
to talk to me about this.
I appreciate you having me.
Last thing, if anybody wants to reach out and pick
your brain, get to know you a little bit. Oh, lord.
There's so little in my brain left, Steven.
I don't know how much they can peck at.
What's the best way?
Well, obviously, you found time to go to Forrester.
You found time to go to Baptie Channel. Focus.
So, you know, you're. And I did.
They should reach out on LinkedIn is probably the
easiest way, or, you know, certainly I can provide
a slide for Chris that you can post up
with, you know, my contact information. All right.
Well, Leslie, thank you for your time.
I really appreciate it.
Listeners, viewers, thank you for joining us.
If you have any questions, please feel reach out
to me or reach out to Leslie and go
see a NYFC soccer game next time.
Well, and more importantly, make sure you do the
right thing by your partners so that you're not
dead to them or dead to me. Wow.
That is a much better.
All right. Thank you. Appreciate it. Take care, Steven.
Talk soon.