Welcome to the Love, Sex and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom, and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive and heart centered leader. Hello everyone. Welcome to Love, Sex and Leadership. I'm very excited to be here at Juicy Land with these two dear brothers in my life. Blake Zealear, nice to see you. Aaron and Dre or Jack, and both men who have been doing a lot of work in men's work. Blake's been working in this field since 2017 with men. Jack and I actually met in a men's retreat many years ago and all three of us have a lot of both experience and enthusiasm and inspiration for supporting men to get more out of their head and into their body, into like the aliveness of what's alive inside of them. So I want to take this time to have a dialogue, have some sharing, have some conversation around especially the leadership of what it means when a man is embodied and alive and bringing that level of inspiration into his life. So, questions I'll start for both of you and maybe Blake, you want to start. What's your big why in menswear? What's the why that drives you to support men in waking up? Well, great question. First answer really is to give back. You know, I lost my, my father at a pretty young age when I was still in my 20s. And it was like my experience of becoming a man was incomplete and I didn't really have anyone to look up to to help me kind of like finish the job. And of course there were things that I would not have been able to learn from my father anyway. But nonetheless that, that absence really like drove me to find teachers, to find mentors, find men that I could trust who would, you know, older and further down the path than I, than I was, but also who had like learned the hard lessons of life and could, could transmit those lessons to me while I was still trying to become comfortable in myself, still trying to accept myself as a man. And receiving that medicine from the mentors that I found was so life changing and really just helped me to anchor in my being and anchor into self acceptance and self love in ways that changed everything. So my first answer to that question is just the. I've received such tremendous benefit from this work that being able to turn around and gift that seed, same medicine back to other men is, is my, my biggest why. I love that example because that's really a living embodiment of like having to go through the teachings yourself to feel the impact to then want to give back to another. Absolutely. I think what sometimes get me is watching people trying to make change, but they're not actually embodying the change inside themselves. Seeing you through the years and it's been beautiful to witness your, your stepping into your leadership and really being a model for men to lean into. So. Yeah, thank you. I suppose if there's a part two to that answer or to that question, it's that there is a particular type of, of medicine and magic that I've experienced in groups that are all men that just can't be reproduced anywhere else. Right. As soon as you have a co ed container or a container where like interpersonal connection of a more erotic or romantic sort is, is the thing that people are going to mentally default to it, it distracts from the purity of, of the teaching, the purity of the experience. And even for men who are attracted to men, there's something about the intention setting around an all men's container that is for a circle of brotherhood rather, rather than more like horizontal romantic connection that allows men to just deepen into themselves in the presence of men who can sharpen them. Right. Something the whole iron sharpens iron analogy, you can't really achieve that anywhere else except in a circle of men with men that are being vulnerable and dealing with the challenges of power. How about for you, sir? Yeah, I feel also, I can relate to that also losing my father when I was two and a half and, and not having much of a father figure but, but having that reference point in, in other men growing up and, and also like you, also looking for reference points of healthy, healthy masculine and also looking at the same time for rites of passage, being introduced to, to life here in different ways, different stages. Sexuality. What does it mean to have a cock? What does it mean to have balls? What does it mean to love those kind of things from a father which I didn't have, made me kind of look for that in a, in a, in a bigger way and look for it in, in a sense that, yeah, I, I became I guess quite discerning and wanting to find where the best reference points around. And I must say I didn't, I didn't find many on my journeys and it really kept kind of moving me towards indigenous men that I could also get a kind of an introduction to, to matter with in different ways. And I feel like I still, I still, I'm, I'm learning from different men. I feel like coming into a space with men is a space where I, I get to mirror Myself and each of those men and receive and learn from their journeys and share about my journey. And we get to kind of share our gifts and reference points and what they have moved through and what they have experienced and the initiations that they have gone through. I feel like a group of men together. Yeah. It makes me feel like, yeah similar to what you're saying. Like coming into a space where there's not hormonal kind of polarity. Even though I can also find attraction to men. But, but that there is, there's a ground there that feels like a space space where my heart just naturally opens up and I'm, I'm curious what vulnerability looks like. I, I feel like I'm still curious how an open heart looks like. I feel like for many years there has been a, maybe even a learning of how to be vulnerable. Right. And, and, and that not quite touching what really vulnerability means. And I feel with men there's almost like, like I love that that's like I don't feel you what's underneath that or kind of like a dark kind of love, a confrontational love that I think I longed for having a father telling me you know this is your boundary here. Here goes the line. I had the nurturing of a mother and you know the, the warmth that comes from the mother. But that introduction to boundaries and which carries such a deep love. I, I, I'm still learning about setting appropriate boundaries in my life. Yeah. Setting good structure and, and, and knowing where are those boundaries and learning you know, having to have gone far beyond them where there's a lot of resentment to then figure out. Wow. I'm, I'm needing to explode because I, I betrayed some part of myself and learning to step back and know what was the healthy place where I hear is a boundary before I close my heart. So I didn't know the difference between shutting down and closing and drawing a boundary. So that was a huge piece for me to actually know. Setting a boundary is, is very, my heart can still stay open and I can still be in connection. It doesn't mean a pushing away of somebody. So stuff like that which has just been revolutionary to learn. You know, spending time with men like yourself and, and in field like we're used to. I feel like those are golden, very human pieces that I just wasn't introduced to in school or anywhere. You know. And it's such valuable qualities to carry. So I think there's, there's several curiosities around initiation and, and also just very valuable human day to day pieces of how to be amongst other humans and navigate, how to be with men and feel a level of, of both, like, healthy competition and, but also healthy camaraderie, like, where we actually support one another. The dynamic, you know, I can hear in both of your shares that I notice in working in this field while, is that there's such a resistance for men to come together with men only spaces. But then I notice once they're there, they're like, oh, my God, this is so I can breathe. And, and so I'd love to actually name and speak into that resistance. That resistance. Like, I notice it, you know, in running these men's initiation journeys for the last seven, eight years, really, I've seen, like, men that are so resistant, then they come and they're like, oh, my God, I should have came like two or three years earlier. Like, I remember it just came in my brain. There's a brother who's in Bali with me a few years back for the year before, was going through relationship challenges and all these things, and his relationship fell apart. And the following year he came and he remembered at the end of the training, he looked at me, he's like, if I was here a year ago, that relationship would still be alive. Yeah. And I could feel the sorrow and, like, the sadness. And it's, It's a funny thing because he's, you know, he's very straight, he's in relationship with a woman, but there's a level of maturing inside of him that happened in that men's only space that allowed him to go back into relationship with his beloved, more mature, more connected. And as a result, he's had very different relationships moving forward. So, yeah, I'd love for both of you to share some perspective on, like, that, that resistance factor and then that opening expansion that happens when men can share that dynamic of power and vulnerability together. I mean, the, the, the medicine, the nourishment, the, the nutrients that are available in a men's only container, especially if it's being led by somebody who has a bit more experience than you do, is most men have lived without it for so long that, like, trying to describe to them how they'll feel once they get to incorporate this nourishment into their being, is a very difficult thing to describe because they're, they. It's like trying to talk to a fish about water, right? It's like you've been swimming in this medium that is, that is even inside of the patriarchy that is actually, despite the privileges that come with with patriarchy, very Very challenging for most men to find a sense of self worth, a sense of mattering, a sense of safety, a sense of camaraderie. Like with other brothers, any place that doesn't feel like competition is, is scant. Like there's, there's a, such a total lack of it in this, in this patriarchal, competitive world that we live in, that like trying to describe what it's like to be outside of that to someone who's never been outside of that is, is very difficult to convey with, with words or a podcast or even with, you know, a moment of, of deep connection, like where we share some vulnerability. I've had this experience with a lot of men who like, they, they'll open up to me in some other place, in some other way about what they're going on, what's going on in their life, their challenges. And you know, I'll do my best to like serve them in the moment or hold space for that conversation. And then often on the back side of it, I'm left with this feeling of like, wow, brother. You know, what would really help is if you spent like a week outside of this day to day world you're always living in and come to a men's retreat. And even though they've just had a taste of connection, connection through vulnerability with, with me, with another man, there's still like a whole week. I don't know if I could do this for a whole week. That sounds really intimidating, that sounds really uncomfortable. And you know, I'll be honest, there is a type of discomfort there, but it's the type of discomfort that only comes from trying something new. Right? It's a little bit like skydiving or something like that. It's like you, you're in the plane, it's uncomfortable, you're all strapped in, you're getting ready, and it's like 3, 2, 1, and then 3 seconds out the door, you're having the time. So it's actually the anticipation of the leap, it's the, the things that our imagination makes up, that, that, that intimidate us about what we think we're about to do. That's actually the resistance. It's not the experience itself. Once you're airborne, once you're out of the water with a bird's eye view, looking at the, the medium in which you've been swimming your whole life, it's freedom. It's freedom. It's the, it's the things that we make up prior to jumping that really are the resistance. And those things are made up from the context of being inside the medium, not outside of it. So I hope that conveys some of it. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Anything you'd like to add into that? Yeah, I feel like I can connect to my own resistance in kind of joining those spaces, which was in the beginning a kind of intimidation by this, like, the hyper masculine. I was afraid to just become more disconnected and more polarized in masculine and the brother. And. Yeah. And like. And actually the opposite happened. I was softened in those spaces. I was cracked open. I was seeing through other men this softness and. And. And just really even touching upon something that feels to me beyond gender, a soul quality that lives in when a male body becomes like, soft and opening. It's like, wow. It's one of the most beautiful things, like, even, like, slight, when the feminine masculine quality is balanced and there's a bit of that quality coming out of a man. It. This is one of the most beautiful things for me to both witness and feel moving in my own system and embody. And I feel like, yeah, going into the men's journeys, finding out that it was a lot about cultivating a relationship to my feminine that I then wouldn't externalize and in a way try to cultivate in someone else and be in a relationship with an idea or something that I wanted someone to be, which is basically belonging I had for my own feminine or for that piece of my soul to integrate for me to be in a certain wholeness, to then be able to meet the female and not externalize pieces and wanting her to be in a certain way. Because actually I was wanting to incorporate those pieces. I think that's one of the most valuable things that I brought from men's work is really, you know, my little girl, my. My. My maiden, my. My mother. You. My own motherhood, my own cronehood and, and. And. And beyond all of the, you know, the. The feminine masculine qualities. Really a quality of soul union. Yeah. And union inside and then being able to then meet a brother and a sister and beyond another soul, another human being in life from a very different place. So I feel like there's a value in this work and there is a body that we are in that has certain hormonal structures and we have a penis and we have balls and. And. And hair on our chest and it just. And, you know, bearded our face. It just comes with certain hormonal qualities. And I think for us to come together and share in that space is very integrative. Like, it's a very. For me, I guess also it Depends what people bring with them to such journey. You know, I, I feel like there's a space for bringing any thing in. You know, if somebody's really in a crisis mode, it's a place to come and, and collapse and break and completely be supported. Putting the pieces back together and knowing direction or knowing how to navigate a certain relationship or, you know, I feel like it's a space that you can bring the, the core pieces that, that is not possible in many other places. That reminds me of something I feel is crucial for this conversation. That I think for a lot of men who imagine going to an all men's container who have never been there before, one of the things they make up is that it's a bunch of alpha men telling them how to be better. Better men. Right. Like the way you are is not enough. You're an inadequate man as you are. So come and let me tell you how to be an adequate man. And it couldn't be further from the truth. It couldn't be more different than that. Like all the men's work that I participated in and taught myself has been much more focused around what you just named Jack of like bringing all that you are, including and especially the, the messy unintegrated bits and letting all of that come to be loved, accepted and included and integrated into the whole of who you are. It's not about changing who you are, it's about creating a bigger embrace of acceptance around. Yeah. And you know, for myself coming from kind of a military background where there was a lot of that driven and it's funny to see men coming into men's spaces, trying to only bring that energy. Like I was doing that when I was 18, just like, it's just a, it's a very old school mentality. And the thing I really hear in both of this and makes me think of, you know, recognizing that the most undeveloped feminine is in a man's body and, and really these spaces are, are holding for men to be stronger in their alpha, but that's a direct relationship to the depth to which they know their vulnerability and their feminine. And without these two kind of meeting and supporting one another than a man is meeting that his relationships in his life trying to be over alpha. But inside there's just this tenderness saying like, see me, see me, I'm here. And I. Then the man feels disconjuncted, he feels like he's not quite whole. So that level of the feminine development that happens in these spaces, to me, if that's not part of a men's space that is happening. You need to find a new men's space. Like, it's just very. It's like, if it's only one way, you're not having the whole picture. And for myself, like, there was such a fear. Like, the first time someone said that there was a feminine energy inside of me, I was like, off, like, no. But then I realized that there was a deeper voice that was leading me towards more integration. So I. I'd love to, like, dive into that a little bit deeper because this, this feminine piece, for me, I think, is what men are most often, even underneath the surface of the two Alpha. Like, what happens if I'm in a space and I'm really actually held in my deepest vulnerability? Yeah, like what? Can I actually break down that much? Can I trust the men around me that can hold me in my deepest vulnerability? Okay. I realize it's not all Alpha, but then I watch this question happen in men layer by layer. Like, can I really bring that peace inside that for most men have probably been sitting on for their entire lives because they're terrified of it themselves. So why on earth would they feel comfortable enough to bring it to other men and feel the. The. And this is why, when brotherhood gets built, and I can even feel that with both of you, there's like a trust that happens through time that allows us to bring those pieces and to know they're not judged. So I'd love to. Yeah. Here's some thoughts, reflections, like, in that trust piece, especially for those deep core vulnerabilities that often I feel like is the reason that men do things all alone and they become the lone wolf, because underneath all of it, they're like, nobody can. I can't trust anyone with the deepest core vulnerabilities inside of me. Want to take that one first? Yeah. I. Yeah. What. What kind of rings in my system is this? He's around vulnerability as weakness, you know, like that it's. That it's kind of perceived. Perceived as weakness where I've experienced again and again and again when I see somebody being able to expose their challenges and expose their. Where they feel inadequate in certain ways, where they feel they need help. It is the most inspiring thing for me to open in. In the presence of somebody doing that, I feel they are giving me their trust. And so I am so in my space, opened to give them back trust. So it's like a back and forth giving more trust. I'm laying out my vulnerable pieces here, and actually these pieces are our strength in the end of the Day the ability to expose and know where we are, having a challenge. And, and I, I think, yeah, just the whole perception of power that I have grown up with is such a twisted image of something maybe that made me become arrogant and shut down and, you know, create certain protectors around my heart and feelings and, you know, wear a mask where when I kind of dove deeper in that direction, I found that the man that I have the deepest of respect and love for at this point and that I'm so inspired and, and I feel I can truly call them somebody that, that I will follow their lead is men that carries a tremendous humility and a tremendous connection to the body, to the land, and a reverence to other human beings. And, and they carry an ability to, to relate from a very human place. It's not distant, it's not something mysterious. It's, it's something that, that just goes to, to touch some very mundane pieces. And I feel like, yeah, this humility piece was really something I also found in indigenous communities in the men that, that held dignity. So it was not a, like a letting go of power and being overpowered kind of humility, but it was a humility that had an openness and a space in their heart for, for love towards others and always a respect. Even though we would disagree or have different opinions, there was a deep respect. And, and so these kind of qualities were mysterious to me. You know, as a child, I thought we had to become strong and, you know, had no weaknesses and, you know, like these, these perceptions as a little boy. And that created like a, an arrogance in me and a distancing. Yeah. And the toughness was the very pieces that, when I melted those, I, I, I found really some of the pieces that had value in me establishing connection to other human beings. And that actually was valuable connections in spaces where a person I didn't even know for more than an hour or, or, you know, throughout a couple of days was somebody who helped me correct just because they held a certain quality of a mirror and because we, we all came together and decided this is a space where we can be vulnerable. And it gave a permission to everybody that I, I received some, something from someone that I couldn't maybe receive from another mirror of a male body. So I feel like there's, there's a magic in the space of having different journeys, different kinds of male archetypes, different kind of personalities that we can learn the exact piece that we're maybe sort of looking to learn more about. I think that is what I experience in the Quality that is in those spaces that we, we, we're in that we're familiar with. And yeah, I think for me the trusting piece is also to the level of the body because I feel like ah, yeah, we can trust that we can navigate all of this in the mind and we can establish ways to relate emotionally. But I also felt like there was like a dropping into my animal of like ah, we can be in the body together and be in the land and, and there's something that can land all the way into the body. Made me feel trusting towards a, a male space that was not just good to make me more hyper and penetrate more ideas into my mind was actually going to help me come into my body as a soul and help me listen to what lives in here. Not just copy or you know, you know, learn from others and take that on, but find out what does it look like when I'm actually really in my body and what comes out when I'm all the way in my balls, in my anus, you know, what actually comes out of me and, and when we're together in that, you know, some of the deepest contractions that lives in those places can come out and be spoken about vulnerabilities around our body or certain experiences having a male body, semen, ejaculation, conversations that, you know, sexuality, sexuality that, that just feels like that's a space where we can have them and we can really unpack those things. Feel like that's where I've trusted it that we can go to those places of conversation that maybe feels like it's not invited in. Just like a general space. Like I feel the spaces that I know you two to have provided and that I've been part of doesn't, there's nothing that isn't welcome there. You know, it's like, okay, let's talk about death. Let's talk about the core pieces that are, that are existential and, and that can really bring more life into our, our, our, our journey. So I feel like I trust the intimacy that lives there and I trust when we come, three of us together, you know, we carry different qualities but we, you know, are listening to something beyond all of us, to a love that can establish in a group that I, I, I, I, I keep returning to. So I'm, yeah, that's yeah, beautiful. We've been speaking a lot about trust and like just a quick plug for, for Juicy Land where we're going to be hosting this event. You know, the number one reason that I was able to say yes to this project to putting my money and my life force here is because of the trust that I felt with you, the awareness. And now it's extended to you, too, Jack, of course, since we spent more time together. But from the outset, I was like, I can put everything on the table with this man. All of my truth, all my vulnerability, my fear, my anger. I can go, like, forehead to forehead with this brother, and whatever comes up between us, we can resolve it. And that, to me, was the X factor, because I've seen a lot of other intentional communities and even just brotherhood circles that have broken down because of a struggle between brothers, where the essence of that breakdown was one or both brothers refusing to be vulnerable in each longer. This is where I close. I will go no further. You will not get to that most tender part of me, Whether it's my inner child or my feminine. I'm gonna. There's a. I have a limit to how open I can be with another man because some part of me has to remain protected. And that's where the breakdown occurs. And to any of your listeners or viewers who are less familiar with this language that we're using around the feminine and men, yes, I want to. You know, that's like the tantric language for it, but, like, I want to put a more pedestrian way of describing it, right? So the feminine in. In any of us is the part of us that feels and expresses and creates. That's. That's enough of a description. So it's where men are concerned, the part of us that feels. We're talking about our emotions. And if you grew up in the same world that I did, then so much of our conditioning as. As a boy growing into a man in this body was, don't feel this. Don't express that. Don't show fear. Don't show tears. If you're angry, you better hide that, because an angry man is a bad man. Right? And like all of these conditions around which emotions are acceptable and which ones aren't, and even in a more adult space, like your typical corporation, emotions are treated as liabilities, not assets, right? It's like this other version of hyper masculinity that just makes all of what we feel wrong or. Or at least risky. And I loved what you said, Jack, about, like, listening to what's coming up and through in the body. Those are our feelings. Whether it's a physical sensation, like, oh, when I eat that particular food, my belly hurts afterward, or when I spend time with this person or doing this activity, I feel kind of gross inside afterward. You know, or like, you know, there's, I'm walking through my life feeling kind of frustrated and a little depressed day after day after day. But I don't have any way of getting deeper into that experience, into the body, to feel it fully, to express it in a way that I can release it so that it doesn't have power over me anymore. That's what integrating with the feminine means to me. It means getting a lot of permission and holding from the circle of brothers to actually go in and feel and express everything that's there. So many men, including myself, are so used to what is being asked of us in the world, by and large, by default is to hold space, to provide, to be the strong one, to have the spine, to tell the truth, to draw the lines and. But to hold and hold and hold and hold and hold and hold some more. Whether it's your partner's emotions or a baby that's pooping every two hours or whatever the thing is, it's like, hold the thing, provide the thing, be there, show up, show up, show up, show up. And most men have been conditioned that that is their, their role, that is their, their sole occupation in life is to, to do for others. And this is one of the reasons, I think, that it's so hard to illustrate for a man who's considering coming to an all men's container what's available to him. Because again, if you've never released holding completely and just been able to feel and express purely while others are holding you, a lot that comes up, a lot that can come through, a lot that can come through. Someone can finally change your diaper for. And like when that happens, it's like, oh, I'm okay. I'm okay as I am, I'm okay when I proverbially speaking, my own pants, like, I'm okay. I'm, I'm still loved, I'm still held, I still exist. Because the rest of the world isn't here being like, oh, you failed, you're a weak man. You should clean up after yourself. All of that programming that we get out there, that is not going to be present in the circle that we're creating here at Juicy Land in June. That's, that's the why, that's, that's what's available here. I love it. I love it. And you know, one of the inspirations for, for me personally when we found this land at Juicy Land was from holding these men's containers for, for many years now at the end, I witnessed the synergy, the Brotherhood, the trust, the communication. And I've always felt this, like, desire inside. Let's build and let's, let's create. Let's. Thank you. Let's, let's put our feet into the earth. Let's feel this in our body. And so that's one of the things we're doing in this training. We're going to hold the normal seven day men's retreat. The guys can come and then after the following week will be together. Those, you know, some guys will come that have been in other trainings with any one of us will come into that second week and the intention will be what can we, as a group of probably 20 to 30 men, what can we build and create for one week together when there's synergy and communication and trust? And this is what we're doing. In June, we have our deep dive immersion where we're talking about all the things we've been doing here together and we get the, you know, support all of you to ultimately remember yourself as your own unique leader. Like all of us are leaders. But what I love about this, this work is not about any one of us being on the pedestal. It's actually you stepping into your power that we're opening a container for you to do. And then in the second week, we get to put our feet into the earth, dig, get dirty, get, like, put, create and, and have the intentional life that I feel so many of us are dreaming of. So that's what's super alive in my heart and one of the biggest whys of coming together on this land, in community and then to land this retreat here together with these two amazing men. I'm so excited for me too, bro. Yes, this will be great. Thank you guys. Do this. We'll see you there. Yes, see you there. If you liked what you've seen today, if you want to find out more, you can go to theinitiationjourney.com to find out. If you like this podcast. If you want to hear other great conversations around leadership, around love, around sex, check it out. Love, sex and leadership. And any questions you have for myself, for Blake or Jack, please comment below. Share this with your friend women. Please share this video with men in your life. This is what will support them. It helps them to get that initiative because sometimes men forget. So we love you, we see you, thank you and see you next time.