Matt Abrahams: Community catalyzes transformation.
My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at
Stanford Graduate School of Business.
Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
Today, i'm incredibly excited and very curious to speak with Gina Bianchini.
Gina is the CEO and founder of Mighty Networks, a community building platform.
Prior to Mighty Networks, she was the CEO and co-founder of Ning, a global platform
for creating niche social networks.
Gina also wrote the book, Purpose: Design a Community and Change Your Life.
Well, welcome Gina.
I so look forward to this conversation.
I look forward to continuing the conversations we've had prior.
Gina Bianchini: Thank you for having me.
This is so nice.
Matt Abrahams: It is.
It's awesome.
So shall we get started?
Gina Bianchini: Yeah, let's do it.
Matt Abrahams: So to start, can you define what you mean by community and distinguish
it from an audience or a following?
What is the value of a community in general?
Gina Bianchini: Community is when people come together and every
single member has something to give and something to receive.
Now, contrast that to an audience.
Following is, I am important and I am valued based on the number of
followers, as if they're nameless, faceless people who are less than me.
So the work that I am doing and the work that the technology has never been
available before to take advantage of this is every single person in a community
has something important to offer.
And we have an amazing ability today to build communities like the very
best party you've ever been to.
Where you show up and you're like, wait a second, everyone here, tell me more.
And I like myself in this room because I'm looking around and every single
person that I am seeing and meeting and talking to is interested in me, but
also is a really interesting person.
Now compare that to what has happened in real life with people that have been
brought up in social media, you start to notice something really interesting
if you pay attention to it, which is people start by talking about themselves.
Because the way that we are being conditioned is what is important,
is what I have to say, versus how I'm showing up for other people.
So to me, that is the core difference of a community, is that every single
person matters and it is a network of peers versus star on the stage that
is collecting people's attention in a way that is not actually introducing
them to other people in that following.
Matt Abrahams: When I first heard of your work, I was really moved by the
way you look at community, because I have over time really come to believe
that connection happens in community.
We call connections like followers, that's a connection I have, but what
you're really talking about is that bi-directional, we have something
to give, we have something to learn.
And it really highlights, as you mentioned, social media
really isn't that social.
It's really broadcasting.
And to have a community of like-minded individuals who all share some
similar ideas and where everybody can benefit is really powerful.
And you've argued in your book Purpose, and I've heard you talk about this
before, that community can serve as a catalyst for transformation.
And I'd love to hear more about how can community lead us to that transformation
and through that transformation.
Gina Bianchini: Human beings are designed to get results and transformation
in their lives from being members of communities, of having an identity
as a runner, an identity as a leader.
And so power of community really is, I think about it as the three things.
So number one, a community is the absolute most effective way to
navigate rapid change because all the content in the world doesn't
help you in a real time environment.
Only people talking to each other in real time is what is going to
help us all navigate the world that is moving faster and faster.
A community is the most effective way to build new practices and change
habits because you don't have to lean into and on your own self-discipline.
Now again, some social sciences, some psychologists would say
more or less that's true.
That we don't have a finite amount of like willpower.
Let's just say it's easier to build new practices and build new habits
in the context of being surrounded by people who are on the same path.
If all your friends stop drinking, it's a heck of a lot easier to stop drinking.
It becomes much less of a thing.
And then finally, if community is the single most effective way to navigate
rapid change and build new practices and habits, it is the fastest way
to get results and transformation you just can't get on your own.
So I really look at creating communities, hosting communities,
joining communities in a way that is about what you can give and then ask.
It is the most important and also the most energizing thing that any of us can do.
Matt Abrahams: The ability of a community to catalyze change and
cement that change is really powerful.
I think about the changes in my own life and how they were
accelerated and supported through the communities that I have.
When my wife and I started our family, we had a strong community.
When my father passed away, we had a strong community.
As my career has evolved, it has been through the support of others
in similar positions, so the ability to have community help us change.
It can be challenging, though, to find that right community,
and certainly communities can lead to bad behavior as well.
What advice do you have for finding your tribe, for finding your community?
Gina Bianchini: One of the easiest ways to find community is today
through the creators that you follow.
Because there are the ones, like you and like others, that are like, hey, I've done
the hard work of building an audience and now I'm ready to take them from a dark
room that everybody's sitting, listening to me to, hey, let's roll up our sleeves.
Let's get people in groups.
Let's get people together and let's go practice.
Let's go on some quests.
And while I tend to try to stay away from advice, 'cause it turns
out advice shuts a conversation down, it shuts community down.
Whereas if you reposition or reframe advice to sharing stories,
sharing ideas, sharing experiences, it expands the conversation.
'Cause then everybody has room to communicate and contribute.
So what I would share is my own experience of the power of tapping into transitions,
your own or others, is when people are the most motivated to actually try new
things, to actually meet new people.
And where this really became true for me and where it crystallized was, this was
maybe a couple decades ago, but I was just like stuck where I was physically.
I went to New York for two months, and where in Palo Alto I would
find reasons to not go out.
I'm like, why do I need to go out?
When I was in New York, I was like, hey, do any of my friends
have friends I should meet.
Oh, you guys are going out?
Sure, I'll go.
And that's the moment.
So the more that you can find those things that are about transitions and where you
are the most motivated, but you're also gonna meet other motivated people, that
is the best way to start communities, and it is the best way to join communities.
And there is something about just showing up and being open and introducing yourself
not as a way to give somebody your resume or flex in ways that make you feel better,
because that's what you're supposed to do on social media, but rather showing
up, introducing yourself, and just being curious about the other person.
Those small moments do more for building the quality of connection that
ultimately creates those results and transformation, that value creation.
Matt Abrahams: I find it really interesting that when I asked how do you
find community that I was thinking, you go search here and you go search there,
but in fact what you took that question to be, and I think this is the better
way to take it, which is, how do you get yourself in a place where you are ready to
find community and ready to participate?
And it's identifying transitions.
Certainly in my life, I can reflect on that and see how that played out.
And being open, we can get very insular and safe in our
habits and we have to be open.
We have to look for those places of transition and others who are
open and in places of transition.
And a great place to start is with people that you respect and you have at least
some fundamental connection with creators, teachers, folks who do something similar.
I wanna switch to this notion of future story, because I think it
fits into what we're discussing.
Can you define what you mean by future story and how can those who are trying
to build community leverage this future story to help congregate people?
Gina Bianchini: So one of my investors and just mentors who I admire
tremendously is a guy named Mike Maples.
And Mike wrote this incredible book called Pattern Breakers, but even before
he wrote the book, he would talk about this whole concept of back casting.
So the whole idea was, and it's what futurists have done for
seventy years, where you start in the future and you look backwards.
And a little bit of a backstory here is the whole concept of a future story came
out of, as I was teaching people how to create communities, what became very clear
to me is that it starts with purpose.
And it starts with the same purpose that any individual who doesn't even
wanna start a community, doesn't even wanna join a community, having a
purpose, a grounding clarity in how to take our time, our talents, our energy
into the kind of impact we wanna have.
And what I realized is this concept of back casting is so powerful.
But what is underlying all of it is the clearer any of us can get
looking out five years and with as much vivid detail as possible, what
does the day in the life look like?
Who are you surrounded by?
Where are you living?
What kind of impact have you had?
Who do you spend time connecting to?
Being so clear in your own head about what that world is five years from now has
so much power and it is absolutely free.
It costs no money.
Grab a piece of paper and write your future story.
What does the world look like in five years?
What is the world you want to live in?
And I think so much of the moment that we are in right now, where there
is so much division, has a lot to do with the fact that more and more
of us are distracted all the time and we don't have time to say, what
is the world that we wanna live in?
Whether that's our day-to-day life, or whether that's the world
more broadly, what is important?
What are the things worth, not just fighting for, but believing in?
And the more vivid any of us can be in telling that story, you
give yourself the absolute best chance at making that a reality.
Matt Abrahams: So a future story allows you to clearly define what's important to
you and what that can look like for you.
And that level of detail provides additional motivation.
Gina Bianchini: And clarity.
Like so many of us can sit down and like, oh, what's my personal mission statement?
That's different than a future story.
Matt Abrahams: It helps us make it a reality, and it helps us understand
where we need the support that community can bring, and having that focus and
clarity can really be motivational because it can feel very intimidating
when I know I want to change, but I don't know where I want to go.
So you've built a platform, Mighty Networks, and you say that
part of what it does is allows for people magic to take place.
And you describe that as the connecting of relevant people to each other.
What role does communication play in this people magic.
One of the things that I very much have gravitated towards because this
isn't something that's very important to me beyond communication, is the
ability to facilitate because there's the broadcasting of communication,
but then there's the actual hard act of bringing together, facilitating.
Share with me what people magic is, and the role communication plays in that.
Gina Bianchini: What people magic is designed to do is make the
facilitation easier and easier so that more people can do it and
more people can do it effectively.
But the easiest way to think about it is coming back to that openness.
I don't care who you are and I don't care how many followers you have, how popular
or unpopular you are, when you are walking into a party you're a little nervous.
And the difference between your ability to relax and enjoy and meet people and
create value and connection is that person who either is the host or a friend of
the host who comes over to you and is like, Matt, I am so glad you're here.
I invited you with purpose.
I invited you with intention.
And, oh my God.
You have got to meet Josh.
I knew you guys would hit it off because, and then there's all
sorts of different techniques for like how to make that connection.
But what have I just done?
I've put you at ease.
I have hopefully hyped you up a little bit.
Because in the same way that like hurt people, hurt people, confident people
connect with other people, like the social lubricant, that it exists to
create networks of people and communities of people come from confidence.
When you feel good, when you feel like you have something to bring to the picnic.
And so a facilitator also does something really important, which
is, I'm gonna make sure you don't feel like you're on the spot.
So in facilitating, I'm gonna structure.
I'm gonna guide.
I'm going to be in charge of the experience that we are creating
here together so that you get results and transformation.
And I believe in a time and a place where as people, we are going to increasingly
be competing with more and more powerful software that wants to be like us,
that wants to take more and more time from human beings, the hosts and the
facilitators are going to be the ones that ensure that we are harnessing the power
of software to make the people we meet, the people we connect with, the people
that we build, at a level of awesomeness that up until this point, relied almost
exclusively on luck and serendipity.
Matt Abrahams: I think that's a really interesting way to define facilitation
as proactive, productive serendipity.
And I like that definition.
I spend a lot of time helping people with the practical, tactical skills
of facilitation, and I agree with you.
It's about helping people feel welcome, helping people feel psychologically
safe, making sure that they don't feel like they're on the spot.
And I like this idea of host.
We have Priya Parker on who likes the same ideas, and certainly we've talked with
Amy Edmondson about psychological safety.
A good facilitator helps bring that about.
You set up the context and the environment for the magic to happen,
but it's really hard because you have to be incredibly vigilant.
And I had not thought of, as you rightly introduced, that a good
host or facilitator is also the one who can maximize and leverage the
technology, be it AI or other tools to help, again, set the scene, set
the table for the community building.
Well, Gina, I knew this was going to be a fantastic conversation.
You and I are very aligned on the power of community.
I'd like to end the way I end all these podcasts with three questions.
One I create just for you and the other two.
I've been asking lots of people.
So my first question is a little different than the community building.
You've had to navigate the venture capital world in many capacities.
Many of the people listening in have to pitch ideas, and I'm curious, what's
your best advice for communicating a new disruptive idea, especially to
those who might be a little skeptical or entrenched in the way things are?
Gina Bianchini: The rookie move is I'm gonna convince
the people who are skeptical.
The masters are like, that's not the job.
The job is to find the true believers.
So what does that look like?
When you are a true believer in your ideas, you're like, I need to
convince every single person that I meet that this is the future.
And the problem is that when somebody tells you, no, it's crushing,
but also it feels so personal.
So one of the things that I have observed that is absolutely
critical is number one, volume.
You have to feel like you have abundance in the number of
people that you can talk to.
So if that's a spreadsheet of people, that you are gonna go down
that list and so that the nos and the rejections that are inevitable.
I wish that I was the kind of person that like welcomed rejection.
I don't, but that has helped a lot.
The next time that I am going to fundraise.
I will have a hundred names and I will go through a hundred, and my
expectation will be that I have to go through a hundred and I just need one.
And I'm going through that list to find the true believers.
Finding a true believer that was already thinking about this stuff, that is your
idea, is much more powerful and important in the ultimate success that you're gonna
have than trying to convince a skeptic.
Matt Abrahams: I like that reframe.
The goal is not to move the skeptic.
The goal is to find the true believer, and the way to do that is to open
up to as many people as possible and really think through and identify.
And that reframe on who the real audience is, I think can really change
how a lot of people accomplish things.
Question number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why?
Gina Bianchini: Steve Jobs.
Just the ability to capture, not just the vision of where the intersection of art
and science can go, but in every area.
Just watching somebody who as a communicator could help everybody
see what something new could be, and what excellence could look like, and
the ability to bring people to an entirely new level of contribution.
The teams that he put together.
The vision that he said, the future story that he was talking about in his
twenties, that happened in his forties, that level, and what everyone I know who
worked with him will say is he made it look like he was a natural and he wasn't.
Matt Abrahams: There are many famous stories about how much work he put
into what he did, but the ability to identify a goal, a vision, and
communicate it, and then assemble the community or teams, really important.
I can understand why you would gravitate towards Steve Jobs.
Final question.
What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?
Gina Bianchini: I think that ingredient number one is so what.
So the little trick that I learned from a woman named Amy Jo Kim, who I love,
was so that we can, so that we can, or so that you can, or so that I can.
The so that we can, that is the why and the benefits and the results,
and once that snapped into place for me, it gave that communication hint
to anybody who's listening, why.
I think that's ingredient number one.
Ingredient number two is detail and the real masterclass of detail is
when you can communicate significant detail in as few words as possible.
That's when you hit magic in communication because if you're too detailed and
use too many words, people zone out.
If you go to too few words, you will want to abstract it.
And you see this if you try to like put into ChatGPT or Claude or whatever,
hey, make this shorter and it's the most generic thing in the world.
So finding that detail in as few words as possible, I think it is the absolute
hardest thing in communication and the absolute just north star of communication.
And then I think that the third thing is heart.
Not trying to BS your way through things, but rather, what do I really care about?
What is really important to me?
How do I show up for an idea?
And how do I leave people feeling about the idea, the concept, me as a messenger?
I think that is something important to pay attention to.
Matt Abrahams: Having that passion, that heart, the emotion, absolutely critical.
You clearly demonstrate that.
I like this idea of taking so what and evolving it into so that we
can, and finding that sweet spot of detail and concision, really
important, really difficult to do.
But what a wonderful recipe and what a wonderful conversation, Gina.
I love the community that you and I have built and the way we interact and
the power of community to transform and the power of community to evolve
just content in one way communication to really being something that's
special and can help people grow.
Thank you so much for your time, and thank you so much for your insight.
Gina Bianchini: Thank you for having me.
Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining us for another episode of
Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.
To learn more about community, please listen to episode 1 74 with Priya Parker.
Please consider joining our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community
at fastersmarter.io/learning.
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This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.
Our music is from Floyd Wonder.
With thanks to Podium Podcast Company.
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