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Language: en-GB

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Travis Bader: Before we dive into
this episode, I want to share

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something that's been on my mind.

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The outdoors doesn't reveal who you are.

00:00:20.340 --> 00:00:22.500
It reveals who you pretend to be.

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I've been thinking a lot about how
easily we can fool ourselves with

00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:33.090
titles, with gear, with comfort,
but when you're out there alone in

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the quiet, none of that matters.

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You're left with the truth and
the truth can be uncomfortable.

00:00:40.245 --> 00:00:43.575
Or it can be the most freeing thing
in the world, and that's why I was

00:00:43.575 --> 00:00:45.255
so excited to sit down with Jordan.

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He's someone who's gone
through that kind of truth.

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He didn't just survive alone, he lived it.

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He leaned into solitude, into discomfort,
into stillness, and came out the

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other side with something deeper.

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In this conversation, we talk
survival, family, faith, mindset,

00:01:04.515 --> 00:01:06.015
all of the stuff you'd expect.

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But what struck me the
most was his humility.

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Jordan doesn't posture, he doesn't preach.

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He just shares his experience
and lets it speak for itself.

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That's something I respect a lot.

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If this kind of conversation resonates
with you, if you're someone who's

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been craving more than just surface
level content, I'll give you a heads

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up on something we've been working on.

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The Silver Core Club is
about to get a big upgrade.

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We're building a space for deeper dives.

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Practical insights, training, tips behind
the scenes, thoughts and stories that

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don't always make it into the public feed.

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It's not ready yet, but it's coming.

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And if you are the kind of person who
values growth, capability, and connection,

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I think you're gonna want to be there.

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Now let's get on with the podcast.

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I'm joined today by a man who's rode
with nomadic reindeer herders in Siberia,

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hunted Wolverines with a hatchet, and
became a household name after outlasting

00:02:08.685 --> 00:02:12.975
every other contestant in the grueling
Arctic on the survival show alone.

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He's part philosopher, part
frontiersman, and all heart.

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A man who didn't just survive the wild,
but found peace and clarity in it.

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Whether he is teaching others to
reconnect with nature or exploring

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life's deeper questions, his insights
are raw, real, and profoundly human.

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Welcome to the Silver Corp
Podcast, Jordan Jonas.

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Jordan Jonas: Well, thanks.

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Appreciate the kind introduction.

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Travis Bader: Hey, I
figured my job's done.

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I can sit back.

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Yeah, and you can be all talking now.

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Jordan Jonas: Stroked my
ego for a little while.

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Travis Bader: You're the very first
person I've ever had who's done

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the podcast out in the woods with
beautiful bull pines, Ponderosa pines.

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Man, that's awesome.

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Jordan Jonas: Springtime.

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It's hard to sit inside right now, so
I'm glad the connection's good enough.

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Travis Bader: Oh yeah,
no, the connection's.

00:03:01.470 --> 00:03:01.799
Awesome.

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Are you just working off of like cell cell
service or is this like a Starling thing?

00:03:05.165 --> 00:03:05.605
Yeah, it's

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Jordan Jonas: just cell
service, so good deal.

00:03:08.345 --> 00:03:08.964
Travis Bader: Oh, I love it.

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Well, a lot of people
already know who you are.

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Um, some people don't.

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Uh, I've actually had the opportunity
to meet with one of your compatriots

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on season six alumni, Nikki Van.

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Oh, cool.

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Well, she's been on the podcast
and she's a real Oh yeah.

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She's a real cool cat.

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And she, I like her.

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She's fun.

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Yeah.

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Oh, she's so fun.

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And her positivity and
her mindset is on point.

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And, uh, you know, she, she recently
reached out and she says, Trav, uh,

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I'm involved with this other Fox show.

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They've asked me to be
a consultant for it.

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Um, or she didn't say it was a Fox show.

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I think it was all hush
hush and top secret.

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Yeah.

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Some kind of show.

00:03:51.630 --> 00:03:51.870
Yeah.

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I'm, I'm involved with this other
kind of show, um, but there's

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gonna be like a hunting portion and
contingent maybe, and like, can you

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come on and help out the contestants?

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And I'm like, I. Sure.

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I know nothing about this Hollywood thing.

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Right, right.

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But they, but she, um, had me come up,
introduced me to the crew, turned out it

00:04:09.180 --> 00:04:13.740
was Sylvester Stallone's Balboa Group and
it was this Fox show called Extracted.

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Oh yeah.

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Yeah.

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So we went up to Whistler and they bring
these contestants in one at a time,

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and we had to give 'em training and
testing and I mean, like, usually we

00:04:23.340 --> 00:04:27.510
do training as a group, but these guys
couldn't see each other and Oh, yeah.

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Got me.

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Megan hin, she's a cool cat as
well, who's a British survivalist.

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So interesting world that you kinda roll
in with these other people who just,

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just pursue their passion and they just
end up finding these opportunities.

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Like, like what you've had.

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Jordan Jonas: Yeah.

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For all our love of the, you know,
like the, some of the things we've

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lost touch with in the modern world.

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It's amazing the opportunities
that it provides.

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Yeah.

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Well, why do you think that is?

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What's that?

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Why do you think that is?

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Why is it that people are deeply craving
Oh, connect So much easier to connect

00:05:00.885 --> 00:05:05.685
with people around the world who, you
know, you have a skill or an ability and

00:05:05.745 --> 00:05:10.005
there's people that have a desire to, you
know, learn from you or whatever, and it

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just broadens your net so much more than
you could a hundred years ago or 10 years

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Travis Bader: years.

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Yeah, no kidding.

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Jordan Jonas: It's pretty wild.

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It's, it's, it's neat to appreciate,
you know, the, the blessing we have

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in, in our modern world right now,
as much as there are to overcome.

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But, uh, yeah, it's, that's pretty great.

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I almost, I wondered that sometimes
when I was living with the

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natives out there, uh, in Siberia.

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Long story, we get there.

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It's, we almost live in a time where
you can have the best of both worlds

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if you, if you play your cards right.

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You know, if you kind of, we've lost a lot
of, some of the older, the lessons that

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come in a in a more rural rural or Sure.

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But we've, um, gained a lot of
opportunity and security at the same time.

00:06:07.469 --> 00:06:12.000
So the ability to combine those
is pretty great if you can.

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Travis Bader: Yeah.

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And you know, with the internet and
everything, we've got the access to be

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able to learn all of these things that
people in back in the day wouldn't,

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they wouldn't have that ability.

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Oh

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Jordan Jonas: yeah.

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But,

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Travis Bader: but the issue is, I
think, is that we're so overloaded with

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information that it comes in, it comes
out and people are kind of dilettante

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into what they kinda get into, and.

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Absolutely.

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That's where somebody like
yourself is a big value.

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Uh, people can go to your Instagram
and check you out on hobo, jordo,

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we'll put, we'll put links into
the, uh, the description here.

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But you're essentially
an information concierge.

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They can view things through your eyes.

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All this info comes in and, but you're
out there living it and you're doing

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it and they say, huh, it works for him.

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Maybe I'm gonna give it a shot.

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Jordan Jonas: Yeah, absolutely.

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Trying to reshuffle a little bit.

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So you do have a little bit more
mental space in what is a Yeah,

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an information overload world.

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No time.

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You know, we're constantly distracted
and that's very tangible, so, uh, you

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almost have to force your hand at times.

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I actually appreciate that about heading
up in the wilderness and getting outdoors.

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I somewhat dread when.

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Starling's gonna be universally, you
know, available, but you almost have

00:07:31.575 --> 00:07:34.545
to force yourself into situations
where you're disconnected and it,

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and then you can kind of delve more
into your well undistracted mind.

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Travis Bader: I mean, it's so tempting.

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I mean, you got this, I was on a, I
was on a moose hunt in, um, in British

00:07:46.485 --> 00:07:48.075
Columbia here this last season.

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Yeah.

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And, um, I'm, I'm trying
to find something.

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I'm using the OnX and the eye
hunter apps and this thing keeps

00:07:54.315 --> 00:07:57.015
popping up and it says, oh, do
you wanna connect to satellite?

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For, uh, for text messages.

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I'm like, no, no, nope.

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And then my wife, she does it.

00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:04.740
She's like, I'm getting text messages.

00:08:04.740 --> 00:08:06.030
I could send a receive and uhoh.

00:08:07.350 --> 00:08:13.500
I mean, like, it's, it's cool, but I
like the fact that we disconnect and

00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:17.100
they're, you don't have that ability
to actually read somebody because it,

00:08:17.520 --> 00:08:21.930
it takes away that easy option, that
easy little lifeline back to something.

00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:23.490
Uh, absolutely.

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You

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Jordan Jonas: almost have to force it too.

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It's like, uh, and it's funny because
if you go without, you know, the modern

00:08:29.700 --> 00:08:33.240
technology or phone and you're up in
the mountains for a week or two, you

00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.640
find, you just don't miss it at all.

00:08:35.669 --> 00:08:39.840
It, you just, it's not even day
one, you know, there's just no

00:08:39.870 --> 00:08:41.820
aspect of you that misses it.

00:08:41.820 --> 00:08:45.270
But when you have it, it just absorbs
so much of your consciousness.

00:08:45.270 --> 00:08:48.870
So it's a odd thing I always find
when I'm coming out of the woods.

00:08:48.900 --> 00:08:51.900
'cause of course I have a running a
little business and stuff and all this.

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I know I'm gonna have a lot of.

00:08:53.925 --> 00:08:54.975
Message now.

00:08:54.975 --> 00:08:58.905
I just have feel that bit of dread,
like, oh man, here comes service.

00:09:01.245 --> 00:09:02.415
Travis Bader: Well, that,
that's the tough part.

00:09:02.415 --> 00:09:05.445
I mean, running a business
is my justification.

00:09:05.445 --> 00:09:06.735
I'm back on social media.

00:09:06.735 --> 00:09:09.705
Like I, I would never have social
media if it wasn't for the business.

00:09:10.035 --> 00:09:10.275
Jordan Jonas: Likewise.

00:09:11.355 --> 00:09:14.205
Travis Bader: But then you're on, it's
like, okay, I guess I gotta put a message

00:09:14.205 --> 00:09:15.735
out or we have to connect a little bit.

00:09:15.735 --> 00:09:18.345
And I'd love, I love some of
the connections that I've been

00:09:18.345 --> 00:09:19.575
able to make because of it.

00:09:19.935 --> 00:09:20.355
Mm-hmm.

00:09:20.510 --> 00:09:24.435
What I don't love is all the cool stuff
that pops up and my A DHD kicks into

00:09:24.435 --> 00:09:25.965
Hyperdrive and I'm like, oh, that's cool.

00:09:25.995 --> 00:09:26.625
Oh, that's cool.

00:09:26.625 --> 00:09:27.735
And I start flipping through.

00:09:27.735 --> 00:09:28.245
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.

00:09:28.245 --> 00:09:32.835
We're on the, we're on the vanguard
of humans trying to figure out

00:09:40.380 --> 00:09:40.600
it.

00:09:44.520 --> 00:09:49.050
They got some talented computer scientists
over there hacking our psychology.

00:09:49.709 --> 00:09:50.370
That's exactly

00:09:50.370 --> 00:09:50.850
Travis Bader: what they do.

00:09:51.990 --> 00:09:53.760
Uh, so tell me about hobo Gido.

00:09:53.819 --> 00:09:55.260
How'd you come up with that?

00:09:55.410 --> 00:10:00.060
Jordan Jonas: Oh, I, uh, you know, and I,
I guess I must have been 18 or so and I,

00:10:00.060 --> 00:10:06.209
uh, I was just working at a salad dressing
factory in Idaho and then, uh, my brother

00:10:06.209 --> 00:10:12.900
had ridden at one point had, you know,
headed off and randomly started riding

00:10:12.900 --> 00:10:18.810
freight trains and, uh, like an old, old
time hobo, he, and he actually loved it.

00:10:18.810 --> 00:10:24.120
He loved the freedom of it and kind of the
lack of, uh, schedule and responsibility.

00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:29.490
Any, any road trains were what would
end up being seven or eight years where

00:10:29.490 --> 00:10:34.829
he just basically just lived out there
and rode around like a, like a dang bum.

00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:35.189
But he

00:10:35.790 --> 00:10:36.569
Travis Bader: as one does

00:10:37.140 --> 00:10:39.569
Jordan Jonas: just no, but was.

00:10:39.990 --> 00:10:46.710
Uh, he was also, uh, unusually unusual
for that, you know, realm sober.

00:10:46.710 --> 00:10:51.840
So yeah, he was able to, uh, you
know, just have a pretty rich

00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:56.130
experience and build a lot of
relationships with people and all that.

00:10:56.130 --> 00:10:59.340
Anyway, he really liked it and at one
point he's older than me and at one point

00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:01.350
he invited me, uh, to come with him.

00:11:01.350 --> 00:11:04.620
So quit my job and head
out, headed out there.

00:11:04.620 --> 00:11:07.350
And, uh, I thought it was really neat.

00:11:07.350 --> 00:11:11.550
I've thought about it since a lot because
it, in hindsight, I wasn't conscious of

00:11:11.550 --> 00:11:16.560
it at the time, but it really felt like
a sort of a fork in the road and a bit of

00:11:16.560 --> 00:11:22.230
a rite of passage for me because instead
of just being stuck on the same routine

00:11:22.230 --> 00:11:27.330
that I, that most people do, it kind of
put me out there, got me way outta my

00:11:27.330 --> 00:11:33.720
comfort zone and, you know, just having,
having an adventure and new, new ways of

00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:38.100
thinking and doors that got opened and all
that, and, you know, and eventually, hmm.

00:11:39.165 --> 00:11:40.965
Yeah, it was a, it was a
pretty awesome experience.

00:11:40.965 --> 00:11:47.175
I, that first night I was, it was in
April, so it was still pretty cold.

00:11:47.175 --> 00:11:51.165
We were on the high line, it's called, uh,
going through North Dakota and all that.

00:11:51.165 --> 00:11:56.025
And, uh, uh, got a big rainstorm
and you know, those trains go 55

00:11:56.025 --> 00:11:57.465
miles an hour when they're up there.

00:11:57.465 --> 00:11:58.600
And, uh, mm-hmm.

00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:00.015
I was asleep.

00:12:01.065 --> 00:12:01.935
I dunno how I did.

00:12:01.935 --> 00:12:05.775
I must have been exhausted, but I
slept through the rainstorm and I, I

00:12:05.775 --> 00:12:09.045
actually woke up to my brother, had
shimmied along the train car 'cause

00:12:09.045 --> 00:12:12.255
he was on another one, shim along
back to me and like, woke me up.

00:12:12.255 --> 00:12:15.525
He was like, oh dude, I thought
you, I was hoping you, uh, you

00:12:15.525 --> 00:12:16.485
know, I thought you might have

00:12:17.085 --> 00:12:17.475
Travis Bader: not

00:12:17.475 --> 00:12:18.045
Jordan Jonas: woken up.

00:12:18.045 --> 00:12:19.305
Which I don't know why
I even thought that.

00:12:19.305 --> 00:12:20.925
But anyways, long story short.

00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:22.800
Absolutely drenched.

00:12:22.800 --> 00:12:26.430
I was in a puddle of water another
while I probably would've drowned in

00:12:26.430 --> 00:12:33.360
my, got totally soaked and uh, uh,
it was quite the, uh, introduction to

00:12:33.420 --> 00:12:37.470
hobo because, uh, you know, middle of
the night, North Dakota wind blowing,

00:12:37.470 --> 00:12:42.570
I was drenched, didn't have anything
dry and uh, I got pretty dang cold.

00:12:42.570 --> 00:12:47.670
I remember, I've never been more,
more acutely aware of how the

00:12:47.670 --> 00:12:51.480
sun can rise but not produce heat
for a period of time, you know?

00:12:53.130 --> 00:12:53.520
Yeah.

00:12:53.520 --> 00:12:56.190
Just watching it like, oh, come on, Katie.

00:12:56.190 --> 00:13:01.320
It was, that was a pretty intense and
funny, uh, introduction to the ho bowing.

00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:03.600
But then, yeah, I traveled
across the country with them.

00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:04.710
We ended up in Virginia.

00:13:04.710 --> 00:13:09.330
Did some, you know, we'd do some temporary
work there and then went up the East

00:13:09.330 --> 00:13:15.330
Coast and back around and ended up back
in, uh, you know, north Idaho ultimately.

00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:18.000
But that also was somewhat
one of the first times I had.

00:13:19.650 --> 00:13:23.220
You know, spend a good amount of
time alone, at least enough to get

00:13:23.220 --> 00:13:26.100
from Minneapolis to Spokane or what.

00:13:26.965 --> 00:13:27.255
Yeah.

00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:32.520
So that was an interesting, you know,
it was just a real, and it was a cool

00:13:33.060 --> 00:13:35.250
experience, particularly for a young man.

00:13:35.250 --> 00:13:37.920
Like, just see what's out there.

00:13:38.250 --> 00:13:38.610
Travis Bader: I'd see.

00:13:38.610 --> 00:13:43.080
So did you ever run into, uh, the police
trying to get you off or chase me around?

00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:43.200
Oh yeah.

00:13:43.530 --> 00:13:46.410
Jordan Jonas: You know, you, that,
that was actually, I might have been

00:13:46.560 --> 00:13:49.050
a day or two after I got soaked there.

00:13:49.770 --> 00:13:53.670
We came into some train yard and, uh,
we had kind of done it on a, you know,

00:13:54.300 --> 00:13:59.100
been, my brother invited me and I said
yes, and we didn't really take time to.

00:14:00.255 --> 00:14:02.025
To get coached or anything by him.

00:14:02.025 --> 00:14:06.675
But, so we were coming into the train yard
and he pulled up his little monocular.

00:14:06.675 --> 00:14:08.565
He's like, oh shoot, they're
searching the train up there.

00:14:08.565 --> 00:14:09.375
Like, we gotta get off.

00:14:09.375 --> 00:14:13.485
And so we all just started, you
know, I don't know, when you're

00:14:13.485 --> 00:14:16.275
on the train, it doesn't feel like
it's moving that fast that time.

00:14:16.275 --> 00:14:16.905
Oh, but it's moving.

00:14:17.115 --> 00:14:20.355
You gotta pro to properly
dismount a train.

00:14:20.355 --> 00:14:23.955
You gotta climb down the ladder,
run with it, get your feet moving,

00:14:23.955 --> 00:14:26.565
and then let go, and you can kind
of run with the train and run off.

00:14:26.565 --> 00:14:27.555
I didn't realize that.

00:14:27.555 --> 00:14:29.685
And we're in a hurry, and the
police were searching the train.

00:14:30.135 --> 00:14:33.855
It was still moving, so I just
jumped off feet, can't catch up

00:14:33.855 --> 00:14:39.795
on it, rolled down and got up and
we, but we got away on that one.

00:14:39.795 --> 00:14:42.405
And then a lot of times they didn't care.

00:14:42.405 --> 00:14:45.585
You know, a lot of times you'd go up to a
train worker and ask them where the train

00:14:45.585 --> 00:14:47.565
was headed and they'd, they'd advise you.

00:14:47.565 --> 00:14:49.005
I'd, I'd say that was probably the norm.

00:14:49.125 --> 00:14:54.645
Although more often you just try not
to get seen, just to avoid any issues.

00:14:54.645 --> 00:14:55.185
But, uh.

00:14:56.385 --> 00:15:02.745
But, uh, yeah, we went to spend a night
in jail in DeKalb County, Indiana and

00:15:03.585 --> 00:15:03.915
Travis Bader: Oh, yeah.

00:15:04.755 --> 00:15:08.025
Jordan Jonas: You know, but
that was an experience too.

00:15:08.025 --> 00:15:10.035
And, uh, what was that like?

00:15:11.535 --> 00:15:15.105
Well, that was funny too because
I, uh, we were on the train and my

00:15:15.105 --> 00:15:20.175
brother woke up and in the night an
al had hit the train, like a, an al

00:15:20.175 --> 00:15:22.095
had hit it and died and landed on him.

00:15:22.095 --> 00:15:26.805
And we were joking about, oh man, that's
gotta be some bad Native American old man.

00:15:27.045 --> 00:15:27.135
Oh yeah.

00:15:27.165 --> 00:15:28.650
That Al lands on his head, it's deaf.

00:15:30.195 --> 00:15:33.855
They were looking out the train and saw
a bunch of workers and they were, you

00:15:33.855 --> 00:15:35.895
know, intently looking at the train.

00:15:35.895 --> 00:15:38.295
And one of them saw us and he
like pointed to us and gave us

00:15:38.295 --> 00:15:39.885
the throat slit hand gesture.

00:15:39.885 --> 00:15:41.505
And we're like, oh, that's
definitely a bad omen.

00:15:41.505 --> 00:15:45.135
And so we started looking around and
sure enough, once again, we could see the

00:15:45.135 --> 00:15:48.495
police searching the train up there and
we thought, oh, should we jump off and

00:15:49.245 --> 00:15:51.135
run for the bushes or see what happens?

00:15:51.135 --> 00:15:52.725
And we're like, well, let's
just see what happens.

00:15:52.725 --> 00:15:52.935
So we.

00:15:53.715 --> 00:15:56.805
Kind of hit under some cardboard
boxes and rolled through, and

00:15:57.165 --> 00:15:58.815
funnily enough, we got past

00:16:01.750 --> 00:16:01.970
us.

00:16:04.815 --> 00:16:08.835
Disappointed because it was canine
training day, and so they had 12

00:16:08.835 --> 00:16:12.435
canine units there and they were
all excited that we might run.

00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:15.050
Glad we made the right choice.

00:16:15.400 --> 00:16:16.450
Travis Bader: Yeah, it
sounds like you did.

00:16:18.510 --> 00:16:21.225
Jordan Jonas: But anyway,
went to the, went to jail.

00:16:21.225 --> 00:16:24.405
It was really just a misdemeanor, you
know, it's like a trespassing charge.

00:16:24.405 --> 00:16:32.610
It wasn't a huge deal, but, uh, spent a
night there and, and, uh, yeah, it was a,

00:16:32.775 --> 00:16:34.845
it was, you know, definitely memorable.

00:16:34.845 --> 00:16:38.985
I remember it was a funny little town
because they would march you again, you're

00:16:38.985 --> 00:16:42.465
just there for a trespassing charge,
but they would march you from the jail

00:16:42.855 --> 00:16:46.635
to the courthouse, which was several
blocks away, but you know, in chains

00:16:46.635 --> 00:16:48.465
with your hands behind your back chain.

00:16:48.510 --> 00:16:48.810
Oh wow.

00:16:48.810 --> 00:16:52.095
Chain up leg March you
through town you like.

00:16:52.095 --> 00:16:53.025
Cool Luke.

00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.050
Yeah, totally funny experience.

00:16:56.265 --> 00:17:00.435
But, uh, yeah, so all kinds of little.

00:17:01.170 --> 00:17:02.849
Adventures doing that.

00:17:02.849 --> 00:17:05.310
And you know, every night you're
out sleeping and you don't know

00:17:06.149 --> 00:17:08.639
where you're gonna get your
meal and who you're gonna meet.

00:17:08.730 --> 00:17:09.780
And so,

00:17:10.619 --> 00:17:10.829
Travis Bader: yeah.

00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:12.294
Well, what about the
other writers always out

00:17:12.294 --> 00:17:14.550
Jordan Jonas: in the world
experiencing it, you know, like

00:17:14.879 --> 00:17:15.210
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:17:15.300 --> 00:17:17.819
Jordan Jonas: Interacting
with different people.

00:17:17.970 --> 00:17:20.460
Uh, and yeah, it was, it was interesting.

00:17:20.639 --> 00:17:20.940
So.

00:17:21.510 --> 00:17:23.460
Travis Bader: Well, what about the
other hobos that you'd be riding

00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:25.615
with as with rugs and Temple House?

00:17:25.615 --> 00:17:25.974
Well, I typically

00:17:25.974 --> 00:17:27.960
Jordan Jonas: rode with my,
there, you know, with my

00:17:27.990 --> 00:17:30.120
brother and our other friend.

00:17:30.210 --> 00:17:34.649
And, uh, the three of us would
usually ride rode together.

00:17:34.649 --> 00:17:38.220
And so, uh, that kept it pretty simple.

00:17:38.820 --> 00:17:39.570
Of course.

00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:45.690
Um, you know, you'd run into other
hobos occasionally, but we kind of

00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:49.980
tried to stick on our, you know, most,
like I said, a lot, a lot of, we have

00:17:49.980 --> 00:17:53.790
a lot of friends who are hobos or
were hobos at the time or whatever.

00:17:54.210 --> 00:17:55.320
Most of them had.

00:17:56.490 --> 00:17:58.260
Issues of different types.

00:17:58.260 --> 00:18:02.520
And so, so it was a little easier
to travel as a sober person,

00:18:02.520 --> 00:18:05.310
kind of with other sober people.

00:18:05.310 --> 00:18:08.747
And I only know a couple of them that
were hobo of my brother and my friends.

00:18:09.445 --> 00:18:09.865
Gotcha.

00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:16.230
We kind stuck together and didn't, uh,
but, uh, but yeah, we'd always, when we'd,

00:18:16.230 --> 00:18:20.040
every city you'd get to, it's kind of a
small community, so you'd find out that,

00:18:20.040 --> 00:18:22.920
oh, DeVos down in, you know, in New York.

00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:27.360
So we'd end up going and running into him,
you know, finding people whenever you were

00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:32.730
in a certain town, you'd go to the park
and reach out and see who was where and

00:18:33.300 --> 00:18:33.660
Travis Bader: Okay.

00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:34.385
Do they still hang

00:18:34.385 --> 00:18:34.465
Jordan Jonas: out?

00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:36.600
Travis Bader: Do they still
do the hobo sign thing like

00:18:36.600 --> 00:18:37.620
they did way back in the day?

00:18:37.620 --> 00:18:37.890
Oh yeah.

00:18:37.890 --> 00:18:37.950
I

00:18:37.950 --> 00:18:38.910
Jordan Jonas: mean, they're around there.

00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:42.840
They have little, well, this is all past,
I mean, this is all before cell phones.

00:18:42.840 --> 00:18:48.390
I'm sure it's totally changed now, but
there was a, a, a genius level hobo guy.

00:18:48.390 --> 00:18:49.170
I never met him.

00:18:49.170 --> 00:18:51.090
My brother knew him well, that, that.

00:18:51.945 --> 00:18:57.435
Kept track of every train yard in the
country and, and the, you know, where

00:18:57.735 --> 00:19:00.825
trains would come into, where they
would leave, where you could catch 'em

00:19:00.825 --> 00:19:05.475
best, where you could get your closest
meal, where you could, uh, you know,

00:19:05.475 --> 00:19:10.605
the time the times trains typically
came and which time would go and, you

00:19:10.605 --> 00:19:13.965
know, when it was leaving the yard, at
what time where it would likely end up.

00:19:13.965 --> 00:19:16.875
Anyway, he had it for the
whole, the whole country.

00:19:16.875 --> 00:19:19.545
It must have been definitely
a, some kind of a genius.

00:19:19.545 --> 00:19:23.415
And he'd print that out and give
that to the people he really trusted.

00:19:23.415 --> 00:19:26.985
So that was, that's, I still have
one of those little pamphlets

00:19:26.985 --> 00:19:28.455
he made, which is kind of cool.

00:19:28.665 --> 00:19:29.505
And No kidding.

00:19:29.895 --> 00:19:31.545
Travis Bader: Whole little
underground community.

00:19:31.635 --> 00:19:32.445
Jordan Jonas: Yeah, exactly.

00:19:33.945 --> 00:19:36.495
Travis Bader: Well, what got
you over to, uh, Siberia?

00:19:37.305 --> 00:19:40.845
Jordan Jonas: Uh, yeah, so I ended
up, when apart, you know, we lived

00:19:40.845 --> 00:19:45.495
in Virginia a lot of the time there
'cause we could get work there and, uh.

00:19:45.675 --> 00:19:46.965
I was there.

00:19:46.965 --> 00:19:51.315
Long story short, I have another brother
who's adopted, and when he became

00:19:51.315 --> 00:19:58.065
an adult, he found his biological
family and he had a biological

00:19:58.065 --> 00:19:59.685
brother that was about my age.

00:19:59.685 --> 00:20:04.065
And so when we all met, uh, that guy was
just telling me about how they were gonna

00:20:04.065 --> 00:20:09.315
be building this orphanage in Russia
and he was gonna go help, uh, um, some

00:20:09.315 --> 00:20:10.754
missionary guy over there, build it.

00:20:10.815 --> 00:20:12.975
And I, uh, I was like, oh, interesting.

00:20:12.975 --> 00:20:15.915
I hadn't honestly thought a lot about
Russia, aside from my interest in

00:20:15.915 --> 00:20:21.945
history and stuff, but I, uh, never
thought of going there, but I kind of

00:20:22.004 --> 00:20:26.685
on a whim or you know, like kind of
unserious almost just was like, well

00:20:26.685 --> 00:20:30.315
Lord, if you want me to go over there
and help out, gimme a sign or something.

00:20:30.315 --> 00:20:35.115
And I, uh, when we headed up to New
York and met some Russians and was like,

00:20:35.805 --> 00:20:42.675
oddly, oddly blown away, or, you know,
I don't know, I was very heavily moved.

00:20:43.455 --> 00:20:43.875
Um.

00:20:45.945 --> 00:20:49.275
To, like, I just felt for them very
deeply in a way that it all brought

00:20:49.275 --> 00:20:52.575
tears in my eyes, honestly, which
was very strange in my experience.

00:20:52.575 --> 00:20:57.675
So I, I just took that as a answer
to that prayer unexpectedly.

00:20:57.675 --> 00:20:59.655
And I was like, all right, well,
I'll just buy a ticket for a

00:20:59.655 --> 00:21:01.155
year and go and see what happens.

00:21:01.155 --> 00:21:04.215
And, uh, and so I did that.

00:21:04.215 --> 00:21:08.595
I ended up there, I was a few months
later in Russia, you know, without much

00:21:08.595 --> 00:21:10.485
of a, I didn't have much of a roadmap.

00:21:10.485 --> 00:21:17.685
I just had a flash of clarity, uh, uh,
in my life purpose at the time to, to go.

00:21:17.925 --> 00:21:20.355
But beyond that, I didn't
have much of anything.

00:21:20.355 --> 00:21:27.945
So I was in a little village in Siberia,
and we worked on that little, uh, building

00:21:27.945 --> 00:21:31.635
where they were trying to build the
orphanage and, you know, dug well by hand.

00:21:31.635 --> 00:21:33.135
You know, just doing
all that kind of yeah.

00:21:33.615 --> 00:21:33.945
Work.

00:21:34.005 --> 00:21:36.045
And, um, the.

00:21:37.830 --> 00:21:41.610
The guy that I lived with was, was one
of the cool, coolest people I know.

00:21:41.669 --> 00:21:48.870
Uh, but he was an American and I wanted
Russian man know Russian I live with,

00:21:48.870 --> 00:21:50.429
he called the neighboring village.

00:21:51.225 --> 00:21:55.965
That guy, uh, that Russian was just like,
oh man, I need to, that'd be amazing.

00:21:55.965 --> 00:21:57.015
Send the American over.

00:21:57.015 --> 00:21:57.825
I need to go to work.

00:21:57.825 --> 00:22:00.795
My wife's in the hospital and
I got these, you know, little

00:22:00.795 --> 00:22:02.175
kids that need to get watched.

00:22:02.985 --> 00:22:05.895
Oh, there you, you go only 21 or 22.

00:22:05.895 --> 00:22:07.125
But I went over there.

00:22:07.125 --> 00:22:10.005
I'd never really messed with kids
at all, but just drop me in the deep

00:22:10.005 --> 00:22:13.545
end of this, like Siberian village
life, watching this guy's kids.

00:22:13.905 --> 00:22:17.355
We'd cut hay with a sigh and
stack it in those piles like

00:22:17.355 --> 00:22:18.975
you see back in the twenties.

00:22:18.975 --> 00:22:19.065
Yeah.

00:22:19.785 --> 00:22:20.235
Like, like mother

00:22:20.235 --> 00:22:22.070
Travis Bader: hand used to do
in the old Richard Ski books.

00:22:22.070 --> 00:22:22.630
Yeah, absolutely.

00:22:22.950 --> 00:22:23.190
Jordan Jonas: Absolutely.

00:22:23.595 --> 00:22:27.705
You know, make a, we'd make a, you
wouldn't go buy a rake to rake up your

00:22:27.705 --> 00:22:29.595
hay, you'd make one outta wood, you know?

00:22:29.745 --> 00:22:29.865
Cool.

00:22:30.735 --> 00:22:33.430
So we had all these
handmade tools and Yeah.

00:22:33.690 --> 00:22:36.975
And then, you know, plant
potatoes, milk the cow every day.

00:22:36.975 --> 00:22:39.315
It was really interesting village life.

00:22:39.375 --> 00:22:45.555
Uh, and that the man I had been there with
had been in prison years back and, uh.

00:22:46.575 --> 00:22:50.205
Together with another, another guy.

00:22:50.265 --> 00:22:54.435
And that other guy was super funny,
like covered in Russian prison

00:22:54.435 --> 00:22:57.345
tattoos and just a, a fiery dude.

00:22:57.345 --> 00:23:00.075
He'd always, but very
Siberian, very northern.

00:23:00.075 --> 00:23:05.895
He'd, he'd always tell me how he had never
seen a, never seen an apple on a tree.

00:23:06.015 --> 00:23:06.435
Like, you know.

00:23:06.435 --> 00:23:06.495
Wow.

00:23:06.795 --> 00:23:09.075
Like a man of the north for sure.

00:23:09.465 --> 00:23:09.645
Wow.

00:23:09.645 --> 00:23:12.585
He would tell me stories about
the one time he saw, you know, a,

00:23:13.245 --> 00:23:18.780
uh, like a minority on the train.

00:23:20.415 --> 00:23:21.915
I saw black guy once on the train.

00:23:23.320 --> 00:23:25.935
It was, uh, anyway, to him
it was really interesting.

00:23:25.935 --> 00:23:26.895
I was like, man, sure.

00:23:27.375 --> 00:23:30.435
Grown up in this northern
orphanage in Siberia.

00:23:30.525 --> 00:23:31.545
Had a rough life.

00:23:31.545 --> 00:23:33.495
Went to prison a couple times.

00:23:33.945 --> 00:23:35.355
That's where those two guys met.

00:23:35.355 --> 00:23:37.905
And then he got out and he had
kind of been a changed man, you

00:23:37.905 --> 00:23:39.765
know, they found God in prison.

00:23:39.765 --> 00:23:44.235
And, uh, so between those two families,
I spent my first year there and.

00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:49.110
A third guy that had been in
prison with was this fur trapper,

00:23:49.350 --> 00:23:51.360
you know, from, from the north.

00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:53.640
And he really cool guy.

00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:58.290
He invited me up to live with
him in fur Trap in the far north.

00:23:58.290 --> 00:24:01.230
So that kind of led me up that direction.

00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:06.570
And there I was in Northern
Siberia, uh, uh, with this guy

00:24:06.570 --> 00:24:08.010
and he took me out in the woods.

00:24:08.010 --> 00:24:11.670
We, he kind of gave me a brief
rundown on how to set the

00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:13.530
traps and how all this works.

00:24:13.530 --> 00:24:17.190
We went to the cabin, some of the
cabins and stocked them with noodles.

00:24:17.190 --> 00:24:21.180
But aside from that, all I really knew
of the place was via topographical map.

00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:26.520
And so it was, uh, that was a
really, uh, there, that was it.

00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:27.930
We, we got it all figured out.

00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:28.950
Got it all set up.

00:24:29.010 --> 00:24:30.000
It's winter time.

00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.620
Know about November, uh, or October,
November, something like that.

00:24:34.620 --> 00:24:35.100
And then.

00:24:36.090 --> 00:24:39.420
He went off to a series of cabins in
one direction and I went in another

00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:43.740
and I went, you know, we separated
for like five weeks and just opened

00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:48.150
traps and checked them and lived off
the land to supplement our noodles.

00:24:48.150 --> 00:24:51.780
And it was like way in
the deep end right away.

00:24:51.780 --> 00:24:53.400
Honestly, I didn't know what I was doing.

00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:58.770
And it was, it was, I learned a lot
of great lessons fast, you know?

00:24:59.580 --> 00:25:01.980
Travis Bader: Was it scary
or was it exciting, or like,

00:25:02.190 --> 00:25:05.520
Jordan Jonas: oh, it was exciting and
it was like, you know, there's something

00:25:05.520 --> 00:25:11.760
about when you're alone that, and you
have this thing that you need to do that's

00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:13.740
kind of out of your league a little bit.

00:25:13.830 --> 00:25:13.920
Mm-hmm.

00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:14.820
Travis Bader: That is

00:25:14.910 --> 00:25:19.620
Jordan Jonas: interesting in that even if
it's too much or it's too hard or so, or

00:25:19.620 --> 00:25:23.970
you don't really know what you're doing,
nobody's gonna fix that problem except

00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:27.540
you, uh, because you're alone and no
amount of whining or anything will help.

00:25:27.540 --> 00:25:31.590
So you really get in this mode
where you just make it happen and

00:25:31.590 --> 00:25:33.960
you make things happen and you're
not, I wasn't thinking about.

00:25:34.230 --> 00:25:36.270
Uh, no, I wasn't scared.

00:25:36.270 --> 00:25:41.880
I was, uh, always hoping to
get something, you know, get a

00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.475
grouse or get some, sure, sure.

00:25:44.790 --> 00:25:47.880
There's a bit of pressure
on you to produce something.

00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:52.500
Um, and I spent a lot of days, you know,
I'd get turned around and lost and,

00:25:53.790 --> 00:25:59.010
uh, lots of extra days just trying to
find the next trap in some trap line.

00:25:59.010 --> 00:26:01.980
You know, maybe since the last time
someone had been there, forest fires

00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:05.520
had gone through and, you know, who
knows where all these things are.

00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:10.650
So I, uh, I fell through the ice
in this river at one point and.

00:26:12.060 --> 00:26:13.620
You know, that's another hard lesson.

00:26:13.620 --> 00:26:17.130
You know, obviously now if I'm going
across, you're, I'm a little more aware of

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.080
how water and rivers and ice work, but you
know, a lot of the places, it's Siberia.

00:26:22.080 --> 00:26:25.740
You got feet of ice on the river,
you don't really think about it.

00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:29.490
But of course, there's places where
undercurrents are hitting the water

00:26:29.490 --> 00:26:31.445
and the ice is thin and you get caught.

00:26:32.025 --> 00:26:32.925
Did you get sucked under?

00:26:32.925 --> 00:26:32.927
Didn't think.

00:26:33.090 --> 00:26:33.870
No, I didn't.

00:26:33.870 --> 00:26:36.750
I just went in with my
legs and hopped out.

00:26:36.750 --> 00:26:41.125
But of course then I was in the middle
of Siberia soaking with, with, uh,

00:26:42.870 --> 00:26:44.190
but that was the best case scenario.

00:26:44.190 --> 00:26:47.940
But I, I made, I got, I made it out,
got back to the cabin, it warmed up my

00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:53.490
leg was, you know, burning on, you know,
when as it woke up, it kind of got very

00:26:53.490 --> 00:26:55.260
cold and died and then came to life.

00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:56.670
Yeah.

00:26:56.670 --> 00:26:56.730
Yeah.

00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:59.910
Did you get frostbite on that or no?

00:26:59.910 --> 00:27:00.750
I don't think so.

00:27:00.750 --> 00:27:03.330
It was nothing per, nothing permanent.

00:27:03.810 --> 00:27:04.140
Yeah.

00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:04.800
It was the.

00:27:05.804 --> 00:27:06.495
Uh, yeah.

00:27:06.645 --> 00:27:07.455
Travis Bader: Water's scary.

00:27:07.514 --> 00:27:08.625
Water can, uh, well, water's

00:27:08.625 --> 00:27:12.044
Jordan Jonas: scary and, and yeah,
there's just margins of air small.

00:27:13.034 --> 00:27:13.245
Mm-hmm.

00:27:13.544 --> 00:27:19.485
Uh, I got into quite a few situations
that were, were just tough and I, I

00:27:19.485 --> 00:27:21.014
thought it was, it was, it was good.

00:27:21.014 --> 00:27:22.425
You know, you're by yourself.

00:27:22.635 --> 00:27:24.764
I thought it was
interesting mentally also.

00:27:25.034 --> 00:27:30.225
That was my first time on such an extended
period of time where you realize how much

00:27:30.254 --> 00:27:33.824
pops into your head when you're alone
for a long period of time, and how much

00:27:34.064 --> 00:27:40.064
unpredictable, you know, any skeletons
in your closet are gonna rear their head,

00:27:40.064 --> 00:27:43.094
or any conversations you should have had
that you didn't have are gonna come up.

00:27:43.185 --> 00:27:48.854
And, uh, and when you're alone, those
fester in your head, but you have no

00:27:48.854 --> 00:27:52.844
way of really settling them because
you're just by yourself and there's

00:27:52.844 --> 00:27:54.705
nobody to talk to about it or anything.

00:27:54.705 --> 00:27:57.014
So, so they just roll around in your head.

00:27:57.014 --> 00:27:58.905
And I'm, I, I thought
that was interesting.

00:27:58.905 --> 00:27:59.145
I was.

00:27:59.685 --> 00:28:02.205
Fortunate enough there to
have like a pen and paper.

00:28:02.205 --> 00:28:03.705
So writing helped, you know?

00:28:03.705 --> 00:28:04.004
Right.

00:28:04.004 --> 00:28:07.155
And then I was like, okay, when I get
outta here, I'm gonna, you know, get

00:28:07.155 --> 00:28:11.385
ahold of that guy and tell him, you know,
make things right and stuff like that.

00:28:11.475 --> 00:28:11.655
But,

00:28:12.135 --> 00:28:15.615
Travis Bader: so, uh, as you write these
things down, and that's a really cool

00:28:15.615 --> 00:28:18.975
tip because that's a huge part of why
I want to talk to you is about the, the

00:28:18.975 --> 00:28:21.495
mental aspect that you display and mm-hmm.

00:28:22.159 --> 00:28:28.155
But, uh, writing these things down, they
probably seem very important in the moment

00:28:28.155 --> 00:28:29.925
when you're out there and very pertinent.

00:28:30.165 --> 00:28:33.225
And when you come back into
civilization and you look back at

00:28:33.225 --> 00:28:35.355
this, did it hold the same weight?

00:28:36.315 --> 00:28:40.125
Jordan Jonas: Definitely didn't, I would
say, because it is, you know, once you

00:28:40.125 --> 00:28:44.625
get back into civilization, there's just
so much more distraction and so much, you

00:28:44.625 --> 00:28:49.395
know, when you're out there again, those
things will just roll around in your head

00:28:49.395 --> 00:28:51.465
without really a way to resolve them.

00:28:51.555 --> 00:28:54.975
And so, or even share the
mental burden of them.

00:28:54.975 --> 00:28:57.524
So you, so it really just.

00:28:58.260 --> 00:29:03.625
Occupies a large percentage of
your mind when, uh, writing, again,

00:29:03.625 --> 00:29:06.900
writing it down helps just so you
can Oh yeah, I'll handle that later.

00:29:07.015 --> 00:29:07.305
Okay.

00:29:07.305 --> 00:29:07.745
Write it down.

00:29:08.025 --> 00:29:08.505
I like that.

00:29:08.605 --> 00:29:12.900
But then once I got out, I would, I did
find that on a lot of that stuff I would

00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:14.550
follow up on, but not on everything.

00:29:14.580 --> 00:29:17.970
'cause then once I was out, it
didn't affect me as much, you know?

00:29:17.970 --> 00:29:22.650
But I, I would say for someone I was
advising, like, say you were gonna get on

00:29:22.650 --> 00:29:24.360
that alone show, or something like that.

00:29:24.365 --> 00:29:24.505
Mm-hmm.

00:29:24.510 --> 00:29:29.490
I would definitely advise you to,
to spend some time ahead of time

00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:32.880
by yourself long enough to see
what types of things might pop up.

00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:35.910
I mean, maybe it's obvious, maybe
you know what, but you know, ends

00:29:35.910 --> 00:29:38.670
are untied in your life, but there's
a good chance that you don't.

00:29:38.970 --> 00:29:39.150
Right.

00:29:39.150 --> 00:29:42.540
And if you don't create the space
to find out what those are and then

00:29:42.540 --> 00:29:46.440
resolve 'em and then head out on
that, in that, into that experience,

00:29:47.070 --> 00:29:53.100
um, with all those ducks in a row
as much as they can be, because, uh.

00:29:53.504 --> 00:29:58.185
It'll really bo eat you up out there if
you have serious stuff to work through.

00:29:58.425 --> 00:30:01.215
It's a terrible place to go
work through issues, you know?

00:30:01.215 --> 00:30:04.635
And, and on some degree, to some
degree it's a great place to

00:30:04.635 --> 00:30:07.065
recognize what they're but, but hard,

00:30:07.095 --> 00:30:08.835
Travis Bader: hard to resolve.

00:30:08.835 --> 00:30:09.525
You can see 'em.

00:30:09.615 --> 00:30:12.435
It's like having, having an
enemy that you just can't punch.

00:30:12.435 --> 00:30:13.605
You can't connect.

00:30:13.665 --> 00:30:14.295
Yeah, exactly.

00:30:14.295 --> 00:30:14.296
Exactly.

00:30:14.865 --> 00:30:19.575
Um, so good friend of mine,
um, actually he's the one who

00:30:19.575 --> 00:30:21.075
brought you on on my radar.

00:30:21.075 --> 00:30:22.455
He is like, you gotta talk with this guy.

00:30:22.455 --> 00:30:23.085
He's awesome.

00:30:23.085 --> 00:30:23.355
Right?

00:30:23.355 --> 00:30:23.504
Oh, right.

00:30:24.675 --> 00:30:25.365
But he was,

00:30:25.514 --> 00:30:26.145
Jordan Jonas: tell him, hi,

00:30:27.855 --> 00:30:29.805
Travis Bader: I will, but I'm
gonna leave his name out here.

00:30:29.805 --> 00:30:34.785
Because, um, he was talking about, um,
some difficulties that he was having.

00:30:34.785 --> 00:30:35.865
Mm-hmm.

00:30:35.866 --> 00:30:39.225
And I was like, you know, for me,
I'll go out into the bush, I'll

00:30:39.225 --> 00:30:42.764
get away from cells, I'll try and
reduce the distractions that I have.

00:30:42.825 --> 00:30:42.915
Mm-hmm.

00:30:43.335 --> 00:30:43.514
Jordan Jonas: And

00:30:43.785 --> 00:30:47.895
Travis Bader: that's my way of kind of,
um, kind of decompressing and bringing

00:30:47.895 --> 00:30:50.685
things into a bit more of a focal
point of what's actually important.

00:30:50.690 --> 00:30:50.810
Mm-hmm.

00:30:51.645 --> 00:30:51.735
Mm-hmm.

00:30:51.975 --> 00:30:52.186
He says, well, I.

00:30:52.710 --> 00:30:58.590
I tried that and I was out there for 45
minutes, a couple hours, and I hated it.

00:30:58.620 --> 00:31:00.540
All these thoughts are
coming and all these things.

00:31:00.630 --> 00:31:04.320
It's like, yeah, I had to get back into
self service and I had no Interesting.

00:31:04.860 --> 00:31:05.040
Yeah.

00:31:05.040 --> 00:31:11.640
And I said, well, that's because it's
masking when you, when you're with all the

00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:16.200
people and all the stuff around you, it
creates a level of noise that can now kind

00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.450
of mask whatever that underlying thing is.

00:31:18.450 --> 00:31:22.050
And I suggested maybe find a way
to push through, but, um, mm-hmm.

00:31:22.290 --> 00:31:25.620
There's a, a question that's
sort of related that comes up.

00:31:25.620 --> 00:31:29.460
It says, I'd love to know more
about his thought process and

00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:31.530
self-talk while he is on the show.

00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:35.340
He's obviously very skilled and
knowledgeable, but what really stood

00:31:35.340 --> 00:31:39.150
out for me is his calm, almost zen-like
energy throughout the whole process.

00:31:39.390 --> 00:31:42.360
Is this a byproduct of
skills and knowledge?

00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.170
Is it a character trait or is
it a conscious decision he had

00:31:46.170 --> 00:31:48.180
to make every day to survive?

00:31:49.725 --> 00:31:51.585
Jordan Jonas: And to some
degree it's all three.

00:31:51.585 --> 00:31:57.945
So like I, I won't deny that I have a,
um, personality that is a bit, I don't

00:31:57.945 --> 00:32:00.044
have an anxious personality per se.

00:32:01.155 --> 00:32:02.595
Travis Bader: Um, you
don't have, or you do have?

00:32:02.595 --> 00:32:03.165
I don't.

00:32:03.315 --> 00:32:03.345
Jordan Jonas: Okay.

00:32:03.345 --> 00:32:08.985
So like, I will say there's some
degree, which, you know, it's a, one

00:32:08.985 --> 00:32:15.315
of the, my natural state of being, but
that's, it's definitely a product of

00:32:15.315 --> 00:32:21.014
environment also because, um, and lessons
I've learned in life over the years.

00:32:21.014 --> 00:32:25.935
So I will say, uh, alone was
interesting because for me, and

00:32:25.935 --> 00:32:28.575
it's kind of, it probably comes
across on the show, although they,

00:32:28.635 --> 00:32:32.085
I obviously tried to emphasize it a
bit, but for me it really wasn't hard.

00:32:32.085 --> 00:32:34.065
It wasn't that hard mentally.

00:32:34.725 --> 00:32:37.635
And I caught myself out there
asking that same question.

00:32:37.695 --> 00:32:39.135
I was like, like, why not?

00:32:39.165 --> 00:32:42.165
Like, I, I'm thankful that it's
not, but I'm also aware that.

00:32:43.230 --> 00:32:46.740
This would usually be a very
difficult situation mentally.

00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:52.470
And so I thought a lot about what had
prepared me to do well in that situation.

00:32:52.500 --> 00:32:58.860
And uh, I mean, of the half of that,
a lot of that is like what I need to

00:32:58.860 --> 00:33:03.000
write a book on, because it's a lot, the
answer answer's very large, you know,

00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:09.720
you know, there's a lot to it, but I
can, um, get to some of the points here.

00:33:09.750 --> 00:33:11.280
Uh, the,

00:33:13.290 --> 00:33:19.260
the first one is, is
perspective, I would say.

00:33:19.260 --> 00:33:24.659
So what allowed me that perspective, and
I, and I know I've told this story on Lex

00:33:24.659 --> 00:33:28.800
Friedman and Joe Rogan and stuff, but it,
it, it was, it's just being intimately

00:33:28.800 --> 00:33:31.350
aware of my own of history in general.

00:33:31.800 --> 00:33:36.240
So like, I did a lot of reading when
I was young about people and wars and

00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:42.420
memoirs and stuff, and it, it gave me a,
as a young person, even a. A perspective

00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:48.480
on my own trials at the time that was,
uh, that just made them not seem so big.

00:33:48.810 --> 00:33:51.720
And then, uh, in my own family
history, you know, they'd all been

00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:53.220
through the Armenian genocide.

00:33:53.220 --> 00:33:58.410
My grandparents and both had terrible
stories, which I had the benefit of

00:33:58.410 --> 00:34:00.510
knowing, like I got 'em passed down to me.

00:34:00.510 --> 00:34:06.000
But both my grandparents were orphaned
and, you know, watched their families

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.180
die, killed in, in this horrible scenario.

00:34:09.540 --> 00:34:15.150
And, uh, to make a long story short,
it was interesting as a young person

00:34:15.150 --> 00:34:19.200
growing up, I didn't know 'em because
they died before my, I was alive.

00:34:19.200 --> 00:34:23.310
But I got, there's a few old grainy
videos and of course I knew all my aunts

00:34:23.310 --> 00:34:28.200
and uncles that they raised and the old
videos of them, it was like such joyful.

00:34:28.200 --> 00:34:31.350
They were cooking up a rabbit
in France and there are just

00:34:31.350 --> 00:34:33.090
so much joy around the table.

00:34:33.450 --> 00:34:36.690
And then they raised these 11
kids who were my dad, aunts

00:34:36.690 --> 00:34:38.100
and uncles that were just the.

00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:42.420
You know, it was a such a bright part
of my childhood where those family

00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:46.770
reunions and getting together and the
laughter and the, and the togetherness,

00:34:46.770 --> 00:34:51.210
and I always thought it was, you know,
and later in my life it dawned on me

00:34:51.210 --> 00:34:56.100
how remarkable it was that these people
who went through such trials like that

00:34:56.100 --> 00:35:00.000
would pale, you know, anything that
we're going through in comparison.

00:35:00.540 --> 00:35:07.470
Uh, and they came through with joy that
was deep, that they transferred to their

00:35:07.470 --> 00:35:13.770
children, that they, like if I didn't
grow up with a bunch of, uh, ingrained

00:35:13.770 --> 00:35:17.339
animosity for the people that did this
to us or anything like that, you know,

00:35:17.339 --> 00:35:20.879
they, they, they built a new life.

00:35:20.879 --> 00:35:26.279
They fostered family, um,
to a very high degree.

00:35:26.279 --> 00:35:31.680
And they, and, and then I came along just
one generation later of the beneficiary

00:35:31.680 --> 00:35:35.879
of their ability to go through that
suffering and coming out with a positive.

00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:41.129
And coming out, come out as
creators, not as victims or whatever.

00:35:41.129 --> 00:35:45.720
And I thought that was, uh, I
thought I think about that a lot.

00:35:45.720 --> 00:35:49.980
You know, that's something that goes with
me when I'm in a, on a TV show on alone.

00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:51.779
It's like, what can I wind about out here?

00:35:51.779 --> 00:35:55.770
That's, you know, and hopefully I, that's
a good up to their legacy in the same way.

00:35:56.759 --> 00:35:59.714
Well, I'll keep it short too, but
my, my dad, oh, don't worry about it.

00:36:00.210 --> 00:36:00.509
Oh, yeah.

00:36:00.509 --> 00:36:05.310
Well, my, my dad went through a similarly
difficult, you know, final 10 years

00:36:05.310 --> 00:36:07.440
to his life where he lost his legs.

00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:11.310
You know, he had diabetes, he had
grew up as a child with diabetes,

00:36:11.310 --> 00:36:16.049
he had polio, so he was physically
unable to maintain his health.

00:36:20.049 --> 00:36:24.524
Uh, but he, he being, you know, the
product of his parents and who, he was

00:36:24.524 --> 00:36:28.814
an immigrant to the us, all he wanted
to do was create a life for his kids

00:36:28.904 --> 00:36:33.584
and, you know, just be a family man
and provide, and, which he did a great

00:36:33.584 --> 00:36:37.935
job of until he was about 50 and,
and he got a sore on his foot that

00:36:37.935 --> 00:36:39.855
wouldn't heal, you know, as it happens.

00:36:39.855 --> 00:36:44.444
And then, uh, he spent four or
five years just trying to get

00:36:44.444 --> 00:36:46.575
this sore to, he couldn't walk on.

00:36:48.944 --> 00:36:50.564
And then it finally healed.

00:36:51.015 --> 00:36:54.314
And, uh, we went out, we were
splitting firewood, I remember.

00:36:54.314 --> 00:36:56.865
And we had the log splitter and he was
just like, man, Jordan, it's just so

00:36:56.865 --> 00:36:59.084
nice to be outside again and be out.

00:36:59.084 --> 00:37:00.884
And he crushed his foot
in the log splitter.

00:37:02.145 --> 00:37:02.174
Oh.

00:37:02.174 --> 00:37:05.384
So, so then they just amputated his leg.

00:37:05.384 --> 00:37:07.484
But, you know, once that
happens, your health can really

00:37:07.484 --> 00:37:09.225
degrade and eventually, and

00:37:09.225 --> 00:37:10.245
Travis Bader: mentally too, rather.

00:37:10.515 --> 00:37:13.845
Jordan Jonas: And in the meantime,
my mom had to go back to work because

00:37:13.845 --> 00:37:17.625
she was a stay at home mom, but,
uh, somebody needed to provide.

00:37:17.625 --> 00:37:21.194
And so she was going back
to school to become a nurse.

00:37:21.194 --> 00:37:24.225
And dad had to watch as
he felt like a failure.

00:37:24.225 --> 00:37:26.234
And mom had to pick up the slack.

00:37:26.234 --> 00:37:28.694
And we were, you know, I remember
him crying when we had to go

00:37:28.694 --> 00:37:30.194
to the food bank and all that.

00:37:30.314 --> 00:37:30.464
Mm-hmm.

00:37:30.464 --> 00:37:32.294
And, you know, he just
felt like a major failure.

00:37:32.685 --> 00:37:33.015
Mm-hmm.

00:37:33.134 --> 00:37:36.615
But it was interesting because I got
to watch his growth through the years.

00:37:36.615 --> 00:37:40.694
And then, uh, for us, he
never felt like a failure.

00:37:40.694 --> 00:37:41.955
You know, he never seemed like a failure.

00:37:41.955 --> 00:37:43.665
We saw how he dealt with it.

00:37:43.665 --> 00:37:46.845
And for us, from my
perspective, I was constantly.

00:37:47.220 --> 00:37:51.060
You know, I was watching how he
was dealing with the suffering and

00:37:51.060 --> 00:37:53.189
the bad lot he kind of had in life.

00:37:53.640 --> 00:37:58.649
And, uh, and what I saw is him evolve
from, you know, obviously there were very

00:37:58.649 --> 00:38:03.359
hard times early on especially, but then
he worked through and he found that his

00:38:03.359 --> 00:38:07.259
self-worth wasn't tied up necessarily
and what he could do and what he could

00:38:07.259 --> 00:38:13.379
produce and all the things that you and
I probably tied up in he, uh, but he

00:38:13.529 --> 00:38:18.120
could see that, what I could see was,
is that his value to me was in like,

00:38:18.120 --> 00:38:22.830
he was such an encourager and he was
such an example of how to face loss and

00:38:22.830 --> 00:38:25.080
trial, but maintain a joyful spirit.

00:38:25.080 --> 00:38:29.700
You know, every morning I'd hear him
at night in pain, like rolling around

00:38:29.700 --> 00:38:33.509
and like, ah, then the morning I'd
get up and, Hey Jordan, just be really

00:38:33.509 --> 00:38:35.399
happy and wanna talk and wanna read.

00:38:35.819 --> 00:38:39.660
Anyway, very positive all
the way until he died.

00:38:39.660 --> 00:38:40.770
And, uh, and it was.

00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:46.440
It was an interesting, you
know, another very valuable

00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:48.120
lesson in how to face trials.

00:38:48.120 --> 00:38:55.320
And, and, and that always stuck with
me, those two, lesson three, I guess the

00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:58.890
reading I had done of like Gulag Arch
Capella stuff, my family history, and

00:38:58.890 --> 00:39:06.270
my dad gave me a trifecta of perspective
through which to filter my own experience.

00:39:06.270 --> 00:39:09.690
That just allowed me to deal with
suffering with a little more, I think

00:39:09.690 --> 00:39:14.190
more of a level head on my, and a
little less focus on my own personal

00:39:14.190 --> 00:39:18.570
experience, being able to couch it into
a broader, you know, a broader story.

00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:24.870
Um, and then, so that would be one
that would be like, uh, one leg of the

00:39:26.040 --> 00:39:26.310
Travis Bader: Okay.

00:39:26.310 --> 00:39:26.730
Yeah.

00:39:26.850 --> 00:39:29.940
Jordan Jonas: Of the, uh, of resilience.

00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:33.180
Then I guess you would need, you know,
another part of it, let me think.

00:39:33.270 --> 00:39:33.720
Um,

00:39:37.350 --> 00:39:39.750
I gotta organize my own thoughts here.

00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:42.420
Um,

00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:48.930
well, what we, oh, you know, I guess
another obvious one that kinda is, is just

00:39:48.930 --> 00:39:52.470
having solid relationships in your life.

00:39:52.470 --> 00:39:58.410
So because, um, again, it was something
you made very clear when you're at a, in

00:39:58.410 --> 00:40:00.330
a, in a, on a loan or something like that.

00:40:00.330 --> 00:40:03.150
All my trips to Russia, I spent
most of my twenties in Russia,

00:40:03.150 --> 00:40:04.560
but of course I was a young dude.

00:40:04.560 --> 00:40:09.570
I had, you know, wanted to pursue
relationships with this girl or that

00:40:09.570 --> 00:40:12.690
girl, or I had friends I wanted to
spend time with or this and that.

00:40:13.140 --> 00:40:18.240
And, uh, but I, and then I, but I
also had my core people who, uh,

00:40:18.240 --> 00:40:19.875
my family, my really close friends.

00:40:19.895 --> 00:40:24.360
And it was interesting to find that
after I would leave to Russia and be

00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:28.740
gone for a year, I could come back
and boy, those people were still

00:40:28.740 --> 00:40:31.170
there, you know, they still, and
we still cared about each other.

00:40:31.170 --> 00:40:34.290
And now my being gone could
bring something back and add

00:40:34.290 --> 00:40:35.910
value to their lives too.

00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:36.870
And.

00:40:37.725 --> 00:40:42.825
And being able to over prac, by practicing
that muscle, exercising that muscle, I

00:40:42.825 --> 00:40:51.015
was able to, uh, grow in my ability to
trust those relationships, to maintain

00:40:51.045 --> 00:40:55.935
through, you know, through even time
and distance and stuff like that.

00:40:56.445 --> 00:40:59.475
And, uh, realized that what
I would go through would add

00:40:59.475 --> 00:41:01.455
value to them and vice versa.

00:41:01.455 --> 00:41:05.115
And, and we can all, you know, we
don't have to stick to, you know, be

00:41:05.115 --> 00:41:08.385
necessarily, I love that physically
close like that our, our love in

00:41:08.415 --> 00:41:10.095
some way would bind us together.

00:41:10.095 --> 00:41:11.085
And I could trust that.

00:41:11.775 --> 00:41:14.895
And because I had strong relationships,
particularly like on alone, my

00:41:15.015 --> 00:41:19.725
marriage was good, so I didn't have
to be out there and stress about that.

00:41:20.265 --> 00:41:23.235
And so, uh, so that's good.

00:41:23.325 --> 00:41:31.095
I then I think there's like a little bit
more practical, um, aspects of it, which

00:41:31.095 --> 00:41:33.375
is that throughout my life I had just.

00:41:34.080 --> 00:41:36.930
Often been outside of my comfort zone.

00:41:36.930 --> 00:41:40.140
You know, we've touched on it a little
bit already, but from riding freight

00:41:40.140 --> 00:41:43.830
trains to living in a foreign country,
not knowing the language, to learning the

00:41:43.830 --> 00:41:49.470
language, and then being in a completely
varied foreign cultures and having to

00:41:49.470 --> 00:41:57.839
adapt and, you know, and often just over
my head, but recognizing, uh, that I could

00:41:57.839 --> 00:42:03.060
be comfortable living and kind of what
I would call the edge of my aptitude.

00:42:03.150 --> 00:42:07.080
Like I was always pushing what I was
comfortable doing and always, not

00:42:07.170 --> 00:42:11.040
even consciously sometimes, but just
I would find myself in situations

00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:14.549
where like, gosh, I don't know what
I'm doing, but I'll figure it out.

00:42:14.549 --> 00:42:18.509
Obviously in doing so, you also become
really familiar with failure, and

00:42:18.509 --> 00:42:23.879
it does because you're constantly
screwing up and iterating and learning

00:42:23.879 --> 00:42:28.740
and, uh, in doing so, I just think by
being on the edge of your abilities

00:42:28.740 --> 00:42:32.580
a lot, failing a lot, you become.

00:42:33.390 --> 00:42:36.359
More resilient so that when you
do get in those uncomfortable

00:42:36.359 --> 00:42:38.310
situations, you don't feel flustered.

00:42:38.310 --> 00:42:39.345
You're kind of like, oh, totally.

00:42:39.365 --> 00:42:42.089
You know what it's like you,
you're totally kind of used to it.

00:42:42.089 --> 00:42:47.250
And then I always think of the example
when I missed the moose on alone.

00:42:47.339 --> 00:42:51.120
You know, because later, and I'm on
this show and I have, I set up for

00:42:51.120 --> 00:42:54.690
the listeners that don't know, and I
set up this big opportunity of weeks

00:42:54.690 --> 00:42:59.850
of, of calling and strategizing to
create some opportunity outta Moon.

00:43:00.509 --> 00:43:05.549
And I got one and I missed, and I
remember the thing watching, walking away.

00:43:06.029 --> 00:43:09.210
And just for one, I was
like, well, that was awesome.

00:43:09.210 --> 00:43:10.350
Like, what a dinosaur.

00:43:10.350 --> 00:43:13.080
And like, darn it, that's, I
cannot believe I missed both

00:43:13.080 --> 00:43:15.359
those emotions come combined.

00:43:15.359 --> 00:43:21.270
But then at the same time, I wasn't
that I, I could not get, I could be

00:43:21.359 --> 00:43:26.670
unclustered in that moment and instead
of being mad about how I screwed up and

00:43:26.670 --> 00:43:30.330
my failure, I could immediately just
switch into, oh, there goes the moose.

00:43:30.540 --> 00:43:35.190
Like how can I. Learn from,
you know, what its behavior is,

00:43:36.030 --> 00:43:37.590
uh, to make this happen again.

00:43:37.590 --> 00:43:40.800
You know, like, because I, it just
made me more determined to create

00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:44.730
another interaction, and right after
I missed it, I was able to just stay

00:43:44.730 --> 00:43:50.280
focused, watch it, keep a level head,
follow where it went, and come up

00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:56.250
with another plan, you know, without,
without being despondent over, over

00:43:56.340 --> 00:43:56.880
Travis Bader: what, what are they saying?

00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:57.210
And so I

00:43:57.210 --> 00:43:57.330
Jordan Jonas: think

00:43:58.050 --> 00:43:58.830
Travis Bader: there's winners.

00:43:58.890 --> 00:44:00.360
There's winners and there's learners,

00:44:00.450 --> 00:44:00.780
Jordan Jonas: right?

00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:01.740
Yeah, exactly.

00:44:01.740 --> 00:44:02.340
Exactly.

00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:06.930
And so I, I think just having
a, a lifetime of experience that

00:44:06.930 --> 00:44:10.500
had me outside of my comfort zone
and kind of screwing up and being

00:44:10.500 --> 00:44:15.930
uncomfortable, being okay with that
Mm. Help build some of that resilience

00:44:15.930 --> 00:44:17.850
that your buddy was asking about.

00:44:17.850 --> 00:44:22.710
And, and I, uh, so yeah, I don't know.

00:44:22.710 --> 00:44:23.520
It'd be interesting.

00:44:23.520 --> 00:44:25.740
It'd be interesting for
him to go out, I think.

00:44:25.740 --> 00:44:27.750
I think people need to.

00:44:27.795 --> 00:44:34.665
I don't think not creating that mental
space because it's too hard is an option.

00:44:34.695 --> 00:44:37.455
Like, you know, like I think,
I think you almost have to, you

00:44:37.455 --> 00:44:39.045
almost have to go through it.

00:44:39.045 --> 00:44:41.715
I would recommend you go out
and if there's things really

00:44:41.715 --> 00:44:44.445
nagging him, write it down.

00:44:44.715 --> 00:44:48.555
Make sure that you're gonna, like, when
you come out, try to be determined to

00:44:48.615 --> 00:44:54.375
follow up on, on what those things are,
but then write 'em down and, and do your

00:44:54.375 --> 00:45:00.405
best to let 'em, let 'em slide because
you know, we'll I'll, I'll, I will, I will

00:45:00.465 --> 00:45:05.385
work through this issue, but I can't up
here right now because, you know, right.

00:45:05.385 --> 00:45:09.915
So I, I'm try to practice that muscle
of recognizing what you can and what

00:45:09.915 --> 00:45:13.365
you can't affect and not being too
bothered by what you can't affect.

00:45:14.790 --> 00:45:15.900
Putting in its right place.

00:45:15.900 --> 00:45:18.000
And when you can, then
you need to act on that.

00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.150
So I think in his situation,
writing it down would be helpful.

00:45:21.150 --> 00:45:24.270
And then, yeah, I spend more
time up there because it is

00:45:24.270 --> 00:45:26.520
important to have those resets.

00:45:26.520 --> 00:45:33.060
We're so, we are so unusually distracted
these days that I don't think just

00:45:33.060 --> 00:45:36.510
maintaining that way of life is ideal.

00:45:36.600 --> 00:45:37.105
And it's not.

00:45:37.230 --> 00:45:38.430
It's the, it's the norm.

00:45:38.430 --> 00:45:39.360
Like we're all like that.

00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:43.920
You and I both, uh, are constantly
bombarded by information and phones and

00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:47.430
this and that, and that's okay, but you'd
have to create some space that's not,

00:45:47.550 --> 00:45:52.200
that that's not scheduled and that's
not pressured and that's not distracted.

00:45:52.350 --> 00:45:54.510
And so I think your advice

00:45:58.890 --> 00:45:59.280
pops.

00:46:00.750 --> 00:46:04.319
To come out of the woods and
confront what those things are.

00:46:04.529 --> 00:46:04.740
Yeah.

00:46:05.549 --> 00:46:08.520
Travis Bader: I, I think that's
a, uh, a brilliant addition to

00:46:08.520 --> 00:46:12.330
the advice that I gave him there,
and the points that you bring up.

00:46:12.330 --> 00:46:16.080
I, I really like the fail
fast, fail hard fail often.

00:46:16.319 --> 00:46:16.410
Mm-hmm.

00:46:16.649 --> 00:46:19.500
Because then you learn
that failure is not fatal.

00:46:19.649 --> 00:46:22.229
Success isn't final failure isn't fatal.

00:46:22.290 --> 00:46:24.000
And you can get used to that.

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:29.069
And I know people who crave failure,
they're high performers, high

00:46:29.069 --> 00:46:32.759
achievers, because then they know
this is a stepping stone to success.

00:46:32.759 --> 00:46:35.520
I know if I'm failing, I'm
pushing myself and I'm learning.

00:46:35.790 --> 00:46:35.970
So.

00:46:35.970 --> 00:46:36.029
Yeah.

00:46:36.029 --> 00:46:36.660
Yeah.

00:46:36.990 --> 00:46:37.410
Right.

00:46:37.620 --> 00:46:41.370
And the other one that, uh, if I'm
picking up what you're saying, there

00:46:41.370 --> 00:46:45.209
is a third party perspective and Right.

00:46:45.209 --> 00:46:46.649
What I mean by that is, um.

00:46:46.680 --> 00:46:48.870
Uh, I'll give you a couple examples.

00:46:48.930 --> 00:46:54.690
Uh, one, uh, when my wife was in labor
with our first child, our daughter mm-hmm.

00:46:54.935 --> 00:46:59.700
Uhhuh, and it was 27 hours
of labor and yeah, long time.

00:46:59.700 --> 00:46:59.765
That's an

00:46:59.765 --> 00:47:00.725
Jordan Jonas: intense experience.

00:47:00.835 --> 00:47:01.325
Totally.

00:47:01.435 --> 00:47:03.930
Travis Bader: Like, and lots
of pain and everything else.

00:47:03.930 --> 00:47:04.560
And, um.

00:47:05.175 --> 00:47:07.605
And she's like, I don't know if I
can do this and blah, blah, blah.

00:47:07.605 --> 00:47:09.615
You know, all the thoughts that go
through through somebody's head, right?

00:47:09.620 --> 00:47:09.770
Yeah.

00:47:09.975 --> 00:47:10.455
Yeah.

00:47:10.545 --> 00:47:13.785
And, um, doing, doing the natural
birth thing and I says, well, yep.

00:47:14.295 --> 00:47:17.985
How would future you like to look
back on you and how you perform now?

00:47:18.315 --> 00:47:22.965
How would your grandmother, uh,
have dealt with something like this?

00:47:22.965 --> 00:47:24.855
'cause she admires your
grandmother very much.

00:47:24.855 --> 00:47:25.965
Right, right, right.

00:47:26.025 --> 00:47:30.525
Um, how do you wanna look back on how you
dealt with this in, in the moment today?

00:47:30.525 --> 00:47:33.345
And although some people have said
that, I'm lucky I didn't get my

00:47:33.345 --> 00:47:34.905
head smacked off at that point.

00:47:35.805 --> 00:47:40.095
Um, uh, in the moment, in the time
that was the right advice for her.

00:47:40.095 --> 00:47:43.155
And it was like a light bulb just
flicked and all of a sudden it was like

00:47:43.245 --> 00:47:45.405
all new energy, all new perspective.

00:47:45.555 --> 00:47:45.615
Huh.

00:47:45.615 --> 00:47:46.575
It was the same situation.

00:47:46.575 --> 00:47:46.665
Mm-hmm.

00:47:47.115 --> 00:47:50.145
But she's like, okay,
it's one day of my life.

00:47:50.865 --> 00:47:51.195
Right.

00:47:51.255 --> 00:47:53.805
Or it's one month of my life,
or it's one year of my life.

00:47:53.805 --> 00:47:53.895
Right.

00:47:53.895 --> 00:47:55.305
How do I wanna look back on this one?

00:47:55.755 --> 00:47:56.175
Jordan Jonas: Right,

00:47:56.175 --> 00:47:56.176
Travis Bader: right.

00:47:56.390 --> 00:47:58.215
And and the other one is, um.

00:47:59.384 --> 00:48:02.569
Uh, and then, then I kind of got
out there, another fellow I, I

00:48:02.575 --> 00:48:07.455
haven't heard from him in years,
and, uh, super funny guy, uh, had

00:48:07.455 --> 00:48:09.049
a problem with alcohol and mm-hmm.

00:48:09.130 --> 00:48:10.365
And, uh, went, went in the program.

00:48:10.395 --> 00:48:10.484
Mm-hmm.

00:48:10.484 --> 00:48:14.865
And I got this text, uh, and a
couple weeks ago and, uh, uh,

00:48:16.065 --> 00:48:19.904
saying, I don't know why I am the
way I am and my, my addiction has,

00:48:19.904 --> 00:48:22.815
uh, taken me and getting into it.

00:48:22.815 --> 00:48:26.085
And I, and I see just through statement
analysis and looking at how, right?

00:48:26.654 --> 00:48:28.185
Like, what do you mean my addiction?

00:48:28.185 --> 00:48:30.975
I have an addictive personality,
but it's not my addiction.

00:48:30.975 --> 00:48:32.625
I don't have to own this thing Uhhuh.

00:48:32.865 --> 00:48:36.045
But, but, uh, so I'm talking with
them and, um, I said, you know,

00:48:36.045 --> 00:48:37.214
there's people, I care about you.

00:48:37.214 --> 00:48:38.535
There's people want you around.

00:48:38.535 --> 00:48:44.055
And he's like, well, you know, like,
like who my, um, my, my family,

00:48:44.055 --> 00:48:45.194
they can take care of herself.

00:48:45.194 --> 00:48:46.785
My daughter, she's off to university.

00:48:46.785 --> 00:48:48.165
She can take care of herself.

00:48:49.229 --> 00:48:51.450
And I said, well, you don't
think mental health and addiction

00:48:51.450 --> 00:48:53.430
is not a hereditary thing.

00:48:53.459 --> 00:48:56.609
You don't think at some point she
might want to be able to look back.

00:48:56.609 --> 00:48:57.689
She might be fine right now.

00:48:57.689 --> 00:48:58.560
Oh yeah.

00:48:58.560 --> 00:48:59.321
Yeah.

00:48:58.799 --> 00:49:03.209
But when she does experience
difficulties, what example are you

00:49:03.209 --> 00:49:07.169
giving her as a role model to be
able to deal with these difficulties?

00:49:07.290 --> 00:49:08.490
If you call it quits?

00:49:08.700 --> 00:49:09.325
Yeah, absolutely.

00:49:09.354 --> 00:49:09.645
Yeah.

00:49:09.645 --> 00:49:14.819
If you take, if you take the easy way
out, and that's that, uh, perspective

00:49:14.819 --> 00:49:16.500
that your father was able to give you.

00:49:16.560 --> 00:49:17.729
He was going through difficult time.

00:49:17.729 --> 00:49:17.819
Mm-hmm.

00:49:18.060 --> 00:49:24.180
But he approached it with such
enthusiasm and, uh, humility and humor.

00:49:24.240 --> 00:49:24.359
Yeah.

00:49:24.359 --> 00:49:24.479
You

00:49:24.479 --> 00:49:28.049
Jordan Jonas: can find purpose in that
trial, you know, and that his purpose is.

00:49:28.815 --> 00:49:32.985
Could be to like, well, I'm gonna confront
this addiction and this depression, right?

00:49:32.985 --> 00:49:37.575
And like maybe show my daughter how
to, should she ever find herself in the

00:49:37.575 --> 00:49:39.045
same position, you know, like, right.

00:49:39.134 --> 00:49:41.535
Travis Bader: He says, oh, I want
to be strong like you, or I want

00:49:41.535 --> 00:49:43.095
to be this like somebody else.

00:49:43.305 --> 00:49:47.505
I said, well, you don't say
I want to have strong muscles

00:49:47.505 --> 00:49:48.620
and then never go to the gym.

00:49:48.620 --> 00:49:49.020
Mm-hmm.

00:49:49.105 --> 00:49:52.455
You need to present yourself with
those weights and challenges in order

00:49:52.455 --> 00:49:54.075
to develop the muscles you want to.

00:49:54.075 --> 00:49:58.215
And the same thing is in life,
the same ability to be strong

00:49:58.215 --> 00:50:00.045
mentally and emotionally.

00:50:00.495 --> 00:50:03.345
It happens because of these
challenges that were presented.

00:50:03.345 --> 00:50:07.035
And this is what I, I mentioned
to him, I said, you're given an

00:50:07.035 --> 00:50:08.565
awesome opportunity right now.

00:50:08.685 --> 00:50:12.780
You're given something a lot of people
don't get the challenge to do and mm-hmm.

00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:17.355
How you deal with it now is gonna
frame how you are in the future and the

00:50:17.355 --> 00:50:18.825
people who love you and look up to you.

00:50:19.275 --> 00:50:19.485
Good

00:50:19.485 --> 00:50:21.075
Jordan Jonas: ripple for generations.

00:50:21.075 --> 00:50:21.645
Who knows.

00:50:21.645 --> 00:50:22.245
You know what I mean?

00:50:22.245 --> 00:50:22.455
Yeah.

00:50:22.635 --> 00:50:23.715
Like yours, right?

00:50:23.715 --> 00:50:24.525
Yeah, exactly.

00:50:24.730 --> 00:50:25.845
It's, it's crazy.

00:50:25.850 --> 00:50:25.940
Yeah.

00:50:26.190 --> 00:50:26.540
Crazy.

00:50:26.655 --> 00:50:27.045
Yeah.

00:50:27.555 --> 00:50:31.395
Travis Bader: Um, so,
okay, so you're on a loan.

00:50:32.085 --> 00:50:34.665
Uh, you're allowed I
think 10 items, is it?

00:50:34.665 --> 00:50:35.340
Yeah, 10 items.

00:50:36.615 --> 00:50:42.075
Um, what, uh, what did you bring that
you thought was the most important and

00:50:42.075 --> 00:50:43.875
what would you probably not bring again?

00:50:44.805 --> 00:50:48.465
Jordan Jonas: Uh, it's hard to
say what's the most important,

00:50:48.465 --> 00:50:49.575
because you definitely.

00:50:50.565 --> 00:50:53.415
But if you're gonna be out there
long term, I don't know, I, the,

00:50:53.415 --> 00:50:56.985
the natives I was with, you know,
in Siberia would always say, the one

00:50:56.985 --> 00:50:58.815
thing you need to survive is an ax.

00:50:58.815 --> 00:51:02.505
And that's, you know,
somewhat true, I'd say.

00:51:02.505 --> 00:51:06.675
'cause with an ax, I felt like if
I had an ax, I could have a chance.

00:51:06.945 --> 00:51:08.355
It's the very small chance.

00:51:08.355 --> 00:51:08.840
But, you

00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:08.880
Travis Bader: know,

00:51:09.105 --> 00:51:12.915
Jordan Jonas: you could, that my plan
A on that show is actually I wanted

00:51:12.915 --> 00:51:17.505
to bear, the natives had showed
me this cool deadfall for a bear,

00:51:18.015 --> 00:51:19.395
and I thought, oh, that'd sweet.

00:51:19.605 --> 00:51:22.935
And you know, that's something I could
build with just an ax and build a

00:51:22.935 --> 00:51:25.215
deadfall and then, uh, smash a bear.

00:51:25.215 --> 00:51:27.165
I thought that'd be sweet, but Oh wow.

00:51:27.195 --> 00:51:28.665
We weren't allowed to bait traps.

00:51:29.690 --> 00:51:30.040
Right,

00:51:30.410 --> 00:51:30.760
Travis Bader: right.

00:51:31.030 --> 00:51:31.320
Yeah.

00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.000
Some provinces you can, but that said,

00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:37.935
Jordan Jonas: you know, having that ax
does give you the ability to procure

00:51:37.935 --> 00:51:44.445
food, to build shelter, to find, you
know, water in the winter, whatever,

00:51:44.445 --> 00:51:47.655
you know, it gives you a lot of
options so you can build fire with it.

00:51:50.189 --> 00:51:54.899
The one item that I almost felt
like I didn't need was the saw.

00:51:54.930 --> 00:51:57.930
I took it because I thought it'd
be a calorie saver and be nice.

00:51:58.049 --> 00:52:00.600
It was very helpful, you know,
in building, but you can do

00:52:00.600 --> 00:52:03.180
everything with an X that you
can do with a saw, basically,

00:52:03.240 --> 00:52:05.250
particularly in soft wood forest.

00:52:05.250 --> 00:52:09.480
But the, uh, I felt like it
was a little superfluous.

00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:14.459
Had I known my location, what
it would be ahead of time, I

00:52:14.459 --> 00:52:16.470
would've swapped it for a gill net.

00:52:16.859 --> 00:52:17.160
Travis Bader: But,

00:52:17.669 --> 00:52:21.209
Jordan Jonas: uh, I made a gill net,
but you know, I could've then had two,

00:52:21.209 --> 00:52:22.529
which would've only just been better.

00:52:22.529 --> 00:52:25.290
So in hindsight, that's
what I'd have done, but.

00:52:25.740 --> 00:52:28.765
Zach's was ha I mean, the saw was
still handy and stuff, but Uhhuh,

00:52:29.100 --> 00:52:31.260
it was a little bit unnecessary.

00:52:31.560 --> 00:52:35.340
So I would've pro, I would've been
my item swap had I had hindsight.

00:52:36.330 --> 00:52:41.445
Yeah, everything else was very useful,
uh, that I took, so I wouldn't mm-hmm.

00:52:41.905 --> 00:52:46.800
And I kinda liked that show format
because having a few items versus

00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:49.890
just not having anything you picture,
like naked and afraid or something.

00:52:50.430 --> 00:52:55.710
It's just not a realistic way
to, to survive in the woods.

00:52:55.890 --> 00:52:58.650
You know, I, it's like
0% chance, basically,

00:52:58.950 --> 00:52:59.070
Travis Bader: yeah,

00:52:59.850 --> 00:53:04.440
Jordan Jonas: maybe you're eating coconuts
or whatever, but the, uh, to have a little

00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:10.740
legitimate way of making, of wilderness
living and not just dying slowly.

00:53:11.490 --> 00:53:13.650
Uh, there's a, you know,
you need a few items.

00:53:13.650 --> 00:53:17.160
And so I think that alone kind of
hit on that balance pretty well,

00:53:17.220 --> 00:53:22.290
which, which mimicked a bit what I
had been doing in Siberia and stuff.

00:53:22.290 --> 00:53:22.650
So it.

00:53:24.075 --> 00:53:25.725
Perfect for that situation,

00:53:26.535 --> 00:53:27.075
Travis Bader: I guess.

00:53:27.075 --> 00:53:27.315
Yeah.

00:53:27.345 --> 00:53:31.785
Well, Nikki, she made it to day 52
before she was medically extracted.

00:53:31.785 --> 00:53:32.115
Medically.

00:53:32.115 --> 00:53:32.174
Yeah.

00:53:32.730 --> 00:53:33.009
Yeah.

00:53:33.285 --> 00:53:36.285
And she says she was in shock
'cause she felt like she was

00:53:36.285 --> 00:53:37.605
in the best shape of her life.

00:53:38.294 --> 00:53:38.924
Things are going great.

00:53:38.924 --> 00:53:40.725
Like, what do you mean
you're pulling me off?

00:53:40.725 --> 00:53:41.835
I put all this time and energy.

00:53:41.835 --> 00:53:44.714
She, um, that's terrible.

00:53:44.865 --> 00:53:47.565
But she was talking about the
medical checks that get done.

00:53:47.565 --> 00:53:47.625
Yeah.

00:53:47.685 --> 00:53:52.004
Were there any points where your medical
checks were looking a little touch and go?

00:53:53.714 --> 00:53:53.805
Jordan Jonas: No.

00:53:53.805 --> 00:53:57.615
Like, so I actually left the
show weighing what I do now,

00:53:57.615 --> 00:53:59.174
just my totally normal weight.

00:54:00.120 --> 00:54:00.609
Awesome.

00:54:00.910 --> 00:54:06.315
But I'll tell you what, I'm a thin
dude and I, and, uh, I was worried

00:54:06.315 --> 00:54:11.565
that they might be worried that I
was thin because, uh, it's a, it's

00:54:11.565 --> 00:54:14.984
kind of a long story, but I, but, um.

00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:19.530
I thought basically that
they thought I was, I thought

00:54:19.530 --> 00:54:20.760
they thought I was too thin.

00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:22.740
And so I was super stressed about them.

00:54:22.740 --> 00:54:24.570
And I also, uh,

00:54:27.090 --> 00:54:30.540
you know, I, I gotta be honest with you, I
didn't know if the show was rigged or they

00:54:30.540 --> 00:54:32.520
wanted somebody to win and this and that.

00:54:32.520 --> 00:54:35.760
And so I was like, man, what if they
tried to use that as an excuse to pull

00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:40.740
me off even just because I'm skinny,
but yeah, but I'm this way normally.

00:54:40.770 --> 00:54:43.440
So anyway, those were all thoughts I had.

00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:48.420
I got, gotta admit, but, um, I
was never in any danger, honestly.

00:54:48.420 --> 00:54:52.110
When the show ended, I, like I
said, I weighed what I do now.

00:54:52.170 --> 00:54:53.370
I might've even been slight.

00:54:53.370 --> 00:54:56.490
I think I got, I was 1 68 when
I weighed myself, and that's

00:54:56.490 --> 00:54:57.930
like right, what I usually am.

00:54:58.230 --> 00:55:06.120
Mm. So interestingly enough, um, but
I had lost 25 pounds because I just

00:55:06.120 --> 00:55:09.660
put on a bunch of blubber before
I went out, you know, eating smart

00:55:09.660 --> 00:55:10.050
Travis Bader: move

00:55:10.200 --> 00:55:11.460
Jordan Jonas: olive oil and all that.

00:55:11.460 --> 00:55:13.140
So, uh.

00:55:14.265 --> 00:55:16.665
So that's why I thought,
man, I lost that 25 pounds.

00:55:16.665 --> 00:55:19.904
They might be worried about
me, but, um, they shouldn't be.

00:55:19.904 --> 00:55:22.815
And so I was always stressed
when they came on med checks,

00:55:22.815 --> 00:55:24.884
but only for that reason.

00:55:25.125 --> 00:55:30.015
Um, and then I was, I guess, yeah.

00:55:30.075 --> 00:55:30.975
Was that the question?

00:55:30.975 --> 00:55:32.115
Sorry, I lost track of the question.

00:55:32.115 --> 00:55:32.895
Yeah, well, yeah.

00:55:32.984 --> 00:55:38.835
Anyway, it was a, it was a, i, I, I
empathized for her being pulled, feeling

00:55:38.835 --> 00:55:44.174
like she was in good health because,
uh, that could, I, I was stressed.

00:55:44.174 --> 00:55:45.345
They would do that to me.

00:55:45.350 --> 00:55:48.855
You know, like I, me and I didn't have
any, I didn't know how I could prove I

00:55:48.855 --> 00:55:52.964
wasn't, I, I remember telling them like,
what you, me to do jumping jacks or.

00:55:55.710 --> 00:55:56.640
Totally fine.

00:55:56.640 --> 00:55:57.930
I swear I'm just skinny.

00:55:59.460 --> 00:56:03.180
Travis Bader: Well, you, you,
I believe it was what, half a

00:56:03.180 --> 00:56:04.500
million that you end up winning.

00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:04.980
And you're right.

00:56:05.490 --> 00:56:10.440
If I remember reading that, you said
your goal was to do the show so that

00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:13.470
you can spend more time with your
family, your in a financial place.

00:56:13.470 --> 00:56:13.530
Yeah.

00:56:13.530 --> 00:56:15.930
You can spend more time with your
kids to, to help raise 'em, right?

00:56:16.095 --> 00:56:16.515
Oh, yeah.

00:56:17.135 --> 00:56:17.355
And

00:56:18.015 --> 00:56:18.395
Jordan Jonas: oh yeah.

00:56:18.570 --> 00:56:19.770
It's been good.

00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:21.210
It's been amazing for that.

00:56:21.210 --> 00:56:22.170
It's been a huge blessing.

00:56:22.170 --> 00:56:26.880
Honestly, the most tangible,
positive from the show.

00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:31.530
I have met a lot of really cool people,
but it has allowed me to shift a bit from

00:56:32.490 --> 00:56:38.070
instruction in the trades and stuff like
that, and into, uh, take taking people

00:56:38.070 --> 00:56:43.050
out in the wilderness and, and that's
more of a, it's more of a seasonal job.

00:56:43.050 --> 00:56:46.620
And so then I also have a downtime
where I can really focus on

00:56:46.620 --> 00:56:48.030
spending time with the family.

00:56:48.570 --> 00:56:49.050
I have the.

00:56:50.055 --> 00:56:53.955
Infrastructure and the living in the
right place to be able to take the

00:56:53.955 --> 00:56:57.525
kids out in the mountains too and
enjoy that with them and really help.

00:56:57.734 --> 00:56:57.825
Mm-hmm.

00:56:58.065 --> 00:57:03.045
You know, it's really helped, it
really helped me kind of, for one,

00:57:03.105 --> 00:57:07.694
it was one of the, one of the many
experiences of life that that helped me

00:57:10.185 --> 00:57:13.305
gimme great clarity on what
my priorities are in life.

00:57:13.634 --> 00:57:19.335
But it was a very important one in being
able to like, kind of bring that to a

00:57:19.335 --> 00:57:23.625
place that, man, I I'm, I can only be
thankful for where I'm at right now.

00:57:23.625 --> 00:57:29.475
And sometimes, yeah, I don't deserve
it, but we got, got a good thing going.

00:57:29.535 --> 00:57:30.015
Hallelujah.

00:57:30.105 --> 00:57:30.194
I say

00:57:32.355 --> 00:57:33.674
Travis Bader: don't deserve it.

00:57:33.674 --> 00:57:34.725
I don't know that.

00:57:34.725 --> 00:57:35.025
I don't well know.

00:57:35.839 --> 00:57:39.884
Jordan Jonas: I only, again, it's funny
because I always have the background, I

00:57:39.884 --> 00:57:42.855
always have it running in the background
that it doesn't have to be this way.

00:57:42.855 --> 00:57:44.595
Like I, you know, look at my grandparents.

00:57:44.595 --> 00:57:49.455
They were as wonderful of people,
I'm sure, and doing their best in it.

00:57:49.830 --> 00:57:51.810
And their life was very difficult.

00:57:52.169 --> 00:57:57.390
And so all I can do is like focus
on when that's not the case and in

00:57:57.390 --> 00:57:58.890
what aspects that's not the case.

00:57:58.890 --> 00:58:00.060
And be really thankful for it.

00:58:00.060 --> 00:58:04.500
So I'm honestly like, consciously aware
of, I don't take for granted the fact

00:58:04.500 --> 00:58:06.270
that I do have my health right now.

00:58:06.270 --> 00:58:06.330
Yeah.

00:58:06.330 --> 00:58:06.450
That

00:58:06.450 --> 00:58:06.569
Travis Bader: can't

00:58:06.839 --> 00:58:07.589
Jordan Jonas: go up there.

00:58:07.620 --> 00:58:11.129
I can understand there's a lot of people
that can't, I, I don't take for granted

00:58:11.129 --> 00:58:13.109
the fact that I have a job that I love.

00:58:13.109 --> 00:58:14.910
It's like that's not given to everybody.

00:58:15.390 --> 00:58:15.480
Mm-hmm.

00:58:15.810 --> 00:58:17.279
And none of that stuff comes.

00:58:18.060 --> 00:58:22.500
None of it is, that's why I say
I don't think it's necessarily

00:58:22.589 --> 00:58:27.450
deserved because, uh, it's just,
there is a element to which it's not.

00:58:27.600 --> 00:58:30.209
But I, but you know, but of
course hard work and stuff.

00:58:30.585 --> 00:58:34.035
Maximizes your odds, but it just,
it's just, I'm, I'm thankful for it.

00:58:34.035 --> 00:58:35.295
All I can do is just be thankful.

00:58:35.595 --> 00:58:35.714
Travis Bader: Yeah.

00:58:35.714 --> 00:58:39.404
Isn't it funny the harder that we
work, the luckier we get, just funny.

00:58:39.410 --> 00:58:39.509
Exactly.

00:58:39.645 --> 00:58:42.194
Jordan Jonas: You play a role in
making your own luck For sure.

00:58:42.674 --> 00:58:42.795
Yeah.

00:58:42.795 --> 00:58:43.185
You know,

00:58:43.634 --> 00:58:46.935
Travis Bader: when I, when I prepare
for a podcast like this, I'll go

00:58:46.935 --> 00:58:51.255
through and I'll try and find, uh,
background on an individual, but.

00:58:51.745 --> 00:58:55.674
I have sort of a rough outline because I
really like to see where the conversation

00:58:55.674 --> 00:58:59.245
takes us, Uhhuh Uhhuh, and so I've got
a DHD and I can go in a whole bunch

00:58:59.245 --> 00:59:03.115
of different directions, but I also
kind of pick up on little weird things

00:59:03.115 --> 00:59:07.225
as we go through too, Uhhuh, and I'm
just kind of vocalizing my process at

00:59:07.225 --> 00:59:12.115
the moment because if I'm to play an
armchair detective and do statement

00:59:12.115 --> 00:59:15.564
analysis off of a few things that you
were saying when we first started talking.

00:59:15.564 --> 00:59:15.625
Yeah.

00:59:15.865 --> 00:59:19.555
There was a thread of two themes
that you brought up on more than

00:59:19.555 --> 00:59:23.665
one occasion, and one was alright,
one was sobriety and one was faith.

00:59:24.205 --> 00:59:24.625
Oh yeah.

00:59:25.314 --> 00:59:28.705
So what, what that about?

00:59:28.705 --> 00:59:29.995
Am I on base for?

00:59:29.995 --> 00:59:30.984
Uh, oh, yeah.

00:59:30.984 --> 00:59:31.825
Jordan Jonas: Maybe it's fine.

00:59:31.855 --> 00:59:35.154
Well, yeah, I guess sobriety,
uh, personally I have, I don't

00:59:35.154 --> 00:59:38.365
have an addictive personality
and haven't struggled it.

00:59:38.395 --> 00:59:39.865
Like my dad wasn't an alcoholic.

00:59:39.865 --> 00:59:42.984
I didn't, I didn't have that struggle,
uh, running in the background.

00:59:42.984 --> 00:59:47.424
But in my adult life, it's been
a huge part of my experience

00:59:47.424 --> 00:59:48.475
given the fact that, uh.

00:59:50.175 --> 00:59:55.215
You know, particularly
with my traveling friends.

00:59:55.455 --> 01:00:00.015
Mm. And then on a, on another note in
Russia, and particularly amongst the

01:00:00.015 --> 01:00:01.965
native populations over there, it's just

01:00:02.535 --> 01:00:02.745
Travis Bader: through

01:00:02.745 --> 01:00:05.835
Jordan Jonas: the roof and it's
people you really care about and love.

01:00:05.865 --> 01:00:10.425
And you can see 'em in the woods,
you know, as when they're nomadic

01:00:10.425 --> 01:00:13.185
and they're out in the forest,
they're people you would meet and

01:00:13.185 --> 01:00:14.865
think of as like happy people.

01:00:15.345 --> 01:00:20.565
Uh, but when they get in the village
or all their relatives who aren't

01:00:20.565 --> 01:00:25.155
reindeer herders that live in the
village, it's just the, it's terrible.

01:00:25.155 --> 01:00:31.095
You know, the amount of the, the
death by murder, suicide or accident

01:00:31.095 --> 01:00:33.675
is 30% amongst those people.

01:00:33.915 --> 01:00:37.335
They're like, it's, it's a mind
blowing and it's like a lot of our

01:00:37.335 --> 01:00:41.415
friends, every time I call back, I'm
a little bit nervous about who's gonna

01:00:41.415 --> 01:00:43.125
be alive and what's gonna happened.

01:00:44.535 --> 01:00:46.220
So there was a lot of, you know, stark.

01:00:47.265 --> 01:00:51.255
Not only tragedies, but also
just missed opportunities.

01:00:51.255 --> 01:00:55.455
And, you know, there's a lot of that that
is I've been involved with over my life.

01:00:55.455 --> 01:00:58.695
So I guess maybe that, that's
why that pops into mind.

01:00:58.935 --> 01:01:03.345
Um, mm. And faith has just been a,
it's just an awesome, I mean, it's

01:01:03.345 --> 01:01:06.825
just a, it's interesting thing,
it's a huge part of my life, but

01:01:06.825 --> 01:01:11.175
I am fascinated by how it evolved
over the course of a person's life.

01:01:11.205 --> 01:01:17.115
You know, you, you get a, you get a,
you get a certain set of principles and

01:01:17.115 --> 01:01:20.775
beliefs passed down to you from your
parents, and then those have to become

01:01:20.775 --> 01:01:27.045
your own through the course of, you
know, trial and tribulation and all that.

01:01:27.050 --> 01:01:27.430
Mm-hmm.

01:01:27.515 --> 01:01:30.735
And then you end up,
you know, on, on this.

01:01:33.555 --> 01:01:33.825
Yeah.

01:01:33.825 --> 01:01:34.065
So.

01:01:35.670 --> 01:01:40.140
Interested to talk about with,
with the understanding that I am

01:01:40.140 --> 01:01:42.720
just a person on a journey, you
know, trying to figure it out.

01:01:42.810 --> 01:01:42.870
Yeah.

01:01:43.860 --> 01:01:45.180
Travis Bader: Are you a religious fellow?

01:01:45.180 --> 01:01:46.170
Is your family religious?

01:01:46.170 --> 01:01:46.259
Yeah, I

01:01:46.265 --> 01:01:47.460
Jordan Jonas: love, I grew
up in a Christian home.

01:01:47.460 --> 01:01:52.320
That's why even my, you know, whole
family history is that they were,

01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:56.225
they weren't actually Armenians, they
were, uh, what's called Assyrians.

01:01:56.375 --> 01:01:58.710
It's a Christian minority group.

01:01:58.710 --> 01:02:02.009
They're the last people that speak
Aramaic, you know, that was Oh, cool.

01:02:02.310 --> 01:02:02.700
What spoke.

01:02:02.700 --> 01:02:05.310
So they were the kind of the
indigenous people to the Middle East

01:02:05.310 --> 01:02:08.640
before kind of the Arab, the influx.

01:02:08.700 --> 01:02:12.750
And, uh, and there's still exists,
there's still some of them, very few

01:02:12.750 --> 01:02:19.230
left now because of the generations of,
of, you know, violence and all that.

01:02:19.230 --> 01:02:25.049
So, uh, but yeah, so my family history
is Christian and then I grew up a

01:02:25.049 --> 01:02:29.400
Christian, and then I, but I remember,
you know, your faith gets tied to a

01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:33.060
lot of random things when you're, you
know, a lot of things when you're young.

01:02:33.145 --> 01:02:34.105
I, I think for me.

01:02:35.265 --> 01:02:41.745
When I was around the time when I felt
that odd flash of purpose and went to

01:02:41.745 --> 01:02:47.175
Russia, there was a, uh, uh, I felt like
that was kind of a dark time because

01:02:47.175 --> 01:02:53.895
I've, I remember I always kind of, I'd
always put my face on a bit of a pedestal.

01:02:53.895 --> 01:02:55.215
I always took it seriously.

01:02:55.215 --> 01:03:00.225
But, um, but I also found that I was
in a very dark place and it like,

01:03:00.375 --> 01:03:03.345
you know, if I would pray, it just
felt like nothing if I, I didn't

01:03:03.345 --> 01:03:07.545
have any, uh, it just felt very dark.

01:03:07.545 --> 01:03:13.125
And I remember, uh, I was like, of course
the, maybe my faith had been tied up

01:03:13.125 --> 01:03:20.895
with too much, um, of what I had a hard
time believing, like the Earth 6,000.

01:03:22.545 --> 01:03:22.905
Sure.

01:03:22.905 --> 01:03:22.906
Sure.

01:03:23.745 --> 01:03:26.565
And so you gotta like, untie all
that stuff and figure out where

01:03:26.565 --> 01:03:28.215
the weed is, where the chaff is.

01:03:28.695 --> 01:03:30.675
And I think right early in the process.

01:03:31.470 --> 01:03:32.340
20-year-old.

01:03:32.340 --> 01:03:34.650
I just felt like I was in a dark place.

01:03:34.650 --> 01:03:40.920
But I, uh, and I remember reading
this verse that said, for those of you

01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:44.640
who are, it was I, for those of you
who are in the, who are righteous and

01:03:44.640 --> 01:03:47.460
yet in the darkness, just continue.

01:03:47.460 --> 01:03:50.100
It was basically like that
was the summary of it.

01:03:50.190 --> 01:03:50.520
Yeah.

01:03:50.700 --> 01:03:54.120
Uh, and I thought it was interesting
at the time because like, oh, there are

01:03:54.120 --> 01:03:58.530
people who try, try to follow the path of
righteousness, but are in the darkness.

01:03:58.530 --> 01:04:01.800
And I guess I'll just
continue and see what happens.

01:04:02.100 --> 01:04:09.420
And I kind of, after that conscious
decision to continue and to act and

01:04:09.510 --> 01:04:13.830
live out the faith, even if I didn't
feel it, I, uh, was when I got that

01:04:13.830 --> 01:04:18.900
little call to go to Russia and then,
which I was really profound for me at

01:04:18.900 --> 01:04:24.480
the time, and I. So there, and I was
heading on this trans Liberian railway

01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:27.180
out to this Siberian village and I
was like, what am I, I don't even have

01:04:27.180 --> 01:04:29.160
like faith, like I'm just doing this.

01:04:29.160 --> 01:04:33.390
I got like a little spurt of something,
but I don't have, and I just remember

01:04:33.390 --> 01:04:36.390
on that, on the trans Liberian
railway, I just like, Lord, if I

01:04:36.390 --> 01:04:39.960
had just one thing I could ask for
just someday give me faith, like I'm

01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:44.970
gonna live like I, like, I believe
because I, I'm gonna guide my life.

01:04:45.810 --> 01:04:47.190
I'm mean, I kept it really simple.

01:04:47.190 --> 01:04:53.670
Like I didn't care, you know, I was
the ultimate, um, summary of my faith

01:04:53.670 --> 01:04:56.070
was, you know, love the Lord your
God, love your neighbor as yourself.

01:04:56.070 --> 01:04:58.410
And I was like, if I can just keep
it, that I don't have to worry about

01:04:58.740 --> 01:05:01.290
the Earth's age, it might stage, I

01:05:01.290 --> 01:05:02.220
Travis Bader: don't have
to figure out all that.

01:05:03.180 --> 01:05:05.070
So you're basically faking
it till you make it.

01:05:05.070 --> 01:05:05.430
Is that

01:05:05.430 --> 01:05:06.331
Jordan Jonas: what Yeah, exactly.

01:05:06.331 --> 01:05:09.330
So I'm just gonna worry about what
the meat and bones of the, you know,

01:05:09.330 --> 01:05:11.730
the meat is of the, of, of this.

01:05:11.730 --> 01:05:14.340
And I've prayed that prayer,
going to Russia and it was funny

01:05:14.370 --> 01:05:17.340
'cause on the way out, I, uh.

01:05:18.225 --> 01:05:22.575
After that first year, and it was, it
was a really conscious year of me trying

01:05:22.575 --> 01:05:29.355
to act purposefully out of love and, you
know, go visit the old lady in her house

01:05:29.355 --> 01:05:35.415
and go, you know, dig that well or do it,
you know, just hands on and on the way

01:05:35.415 --> 01:05:41.235
back on the train, I had forgotten about
that prayer, but I, I remembered it on my

01:05:41.235 --> 01:05:43.545
train ride back and I thought, oh my gosh.

01:05:43.575 --> 01:05:47.505
It, that was, that prayer really
answered like, unbelievable.

01:05:47.505 --> 01:05:49.215
And it was like, oh, kind blew me away.

01:05:49.215 --> 01:05:51.465
I was like, oh, I actually
do have faith now.

01:05:51.465 --> 01:05:55.335
I don't know how that happened over the
course of the last year, but, but, you

01:05:55.335 --> 01:06:00.315
know, and then over the, over my whole
life it's just evolved and, and changed.

01:06:00.315 --> 01:06:05.745
But it's a, a journey I am definitely
on and I appreciate, like, I

01:06:05.745 --> 01:06:10.905
really like the idea of, you know,
we all have these things based

01:06:10.905 --> 01:06:12.105
on everyone's background, but.

01:06:13.395 --> 01:06:17.384
Things that we struggle with, but rather
than destroy and tear it all down, I'm

01:06:17.384 --> 01:06:22.904
just, I think we need to like redeem and
like, you know, take this down, that brick

01:06:22.904 --> 01:06:26.714
down, repair it with this one and that
one rather than bull the whole thing.

01:06:27.045 --> 01:06:31.875
And so I feel like a bit that,
that's my, you know, my path

01:06:31.875 --> 01:06:33.674
of also is a bit like that.

01:06:34.035 --> 01:06:39.194
And I, I most relate to it
in the idea of the struggle.

01:06:39.194 --> 01:06:44.595
You know, like, uh, there's that idea that
the word Israel means like to struggle

01:06:44.595 --> 01:06:46.785
with God or whatever, to wrestle with God.

01:06:47.295 --> 01:06:50.595
And I, and that's funny because if
you can, you can throw it all out.

01:06:50.595 --> 01:06:53.775
And I totally understand people that
do that for whatever reason, like,

01:06:53.955 --> 01:06:55.935
ah, this is all BS and throw it out.

01:06:55.940 --> 01:06:55.970
Sure.

01:06:55.975 --> 01:06:58.575
And I have a lot of people that I
love that have done that, but then

01:06:58.575 --> 01:07:03.105
there, but if you take it seriously
and wrestle with it and like, wait,

01:07:03.105 --> 01:07:06.645
what does it actually, what if I try
to take seriously love your enemies?

01:07:06.645 --> 01:07:07.785
Like, what does that mean?

01:07:07.875 --> 01:07:08.205
You know?

01:07:08.205 --> 01:07:08.415
And then.

01:07:09.375 --> 01:07:10.365
That's a challenge.

01:07:10.365 --> 01:07:12.524
And in some ways it's actually impossible.

01:07:12.524 --> 01:07:17.234
Like the call in general to
love others is impossible.

01:07:17.234 --> 01:07:20.745
And it's, and, and when you live out
with these people and you invest so

01:07:20.745 --> 01:07:25.154
much in them and then they drink too
much and die, and that's like, it,

01:07:25.154 --> 01:07:28.875
it, it gets you, it really grinds
on you at like the vanity of it all.

01:07:28.875 --> 01:07:36.015
But to have that, to choose to believe
and have that orientation in the

01:07:36.015 --> 01:07:40.694
world, I think is like, I, I, I think
I find it so valuable in my life.

01:07:40.694 --> 01:07:45.225
I'm like a huge champion of that,
even though I understand, I understand

01:07:45.225 --> 01:07:49.515
why there's a lot of people whose
faith is tied up with like this,

01:07:49.515 --> 01:07:54.285
that unnecessary sense of guilt
all the time or, or this or that.

01:07:54.285 --> 01:07:59.564
So I understand the complexities of
it, but if I can boil it to down to

01:07:59.564 --> 01:08:05.654
what is good and what is, what is
like, what is it that we all all agree

01:08:05.654 --> 01:08:08.535
with in some, on some deep level.

01:08:09.975 --> 01:08:14.535
This, like the pedestal that
our culture has put the idea of

01:08:14.535 --> 01:08:17.505
love on is not, not for nothing.

01:08:17.505 --> 01:08:18.585
It didn't come outta nowhere.

01:08:18.585 --> 01:08:22.755
That's not a, uh, it's
not a survival ethic.

01:08:22.785 --> 01:08:26.265
It's not as far as like, it's
not survival of the fittest.

01:08:26.265 --> 01:08:28.545
It's something a little
bit different than that.

01:08:28.545 --> 01:08:35.234
And so, um, I wanna like cherish that
and there's that baby in the bathwater

01:08:35.234 --> 01:08:39.825
that may be, that was my faith and
there's a baby in the bathwater that

01:08:39.825 --> 01:08:44.385
I think in that Christian message
that I ascribed to, that I think

01:08:44.385 --> 01:08:47.535
is really worth like, fleshing out.

01:08:47.625 --> 01:08:51.345
And that's kind of my life journey of
faith is fleshing that out, I guess.

01:08:52.545 --> 01:08:56.085
Travis Bader: Well that, and that provides
purpose and that purpose drives meaning

01:08:56.085 --> 01:08:57.915
and joy comes from all of that and

01:08:57.915 --> 01:08:58.185
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.

01:08:58.185 --> 01:08:58.845
Absolutely.

01:08:58.845 --> 01:09:01.395
And then you do it in community
with others who are trying

01:09:01.395 --> 01:09:04.274
to take that path seriously.

01:09:04.310 --> 01:09:04.904
You know what I mean?

01:09:04.904 --> 01:09:07.484
And it's, it's a. So I
think that's really neat.

01:09:07.484 --> 01:09:13.514
I think it's neat to be on a, a
purposeful journey towards a ideal,

01:09:13.514 --> 01:09:18.255
towards a goal like that with others and
progressive work that out in your life and

01:09:18.689 --> 01:09:18.979
Travis Bader: yeah.

01:09:18.984 --> 01:09:22.514
Progressive realization of a worthy
ideal as Earl Nightingale would say.

01:09:22.514 --> 01:09:22.604
Right?

01:09:22.604 --> 01:09:22.934
Yeah.

01:09:24.045 --> 01:09:28.184
What, okay, so you said it's
almost impossible, I think you said

01:09:28.184 --> 01:09:33.224
almost, I think you had that almost
qualifier in there to, to, uh, love

01:09:33.224 --> 01:09:35.500
thy enemy to uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:35.625 --> 01:09:38.354
Forgive those who have wronged you.

01:09:38.715 --> 01:09:43.274
Have you uhhuh, have you squared yourself
of that or is that, uh, 'cause I find

01:09:43.274 --> 01:09:47.415
that one, I'm like, I don't, I can't
wrap my head around like, how do you, how

01:09:47.415 --> 01:09:51.404
do you love someone who's done so much
wrong and continues to actively go outta

01:09:51.404 --> 01:09:53.594
their way to try and, and like Yeah,

01:09:53.594 --> 01:09:54.139
Jordan Jonas: no, I do.

01:09:54.179 --> 01:09:57.705
I I do think that that's where
the, the struggle comes in.

01:09:57.705 --> 01:09:59.415
But I'll tell you what is easy to do.

01:09:59.415 --> 01:10:00.300
It's easy to hate 'em.

01:10:00.300 --> 01:10:00.575
Mm-hmm.

01:10:01.025 --> 01:10:01.724
You know what I mean?

01:10:01.724 --> 01:10:08.865
And so I think it's incredibly valuable
to have a. You know, to have that, to push

01:10:08.865 --> 01:10:13.844
back against your natural, your natural
tendencies, because there's no doubt in,

01:10:14.684 --> 01:10:18.434
in history and your own life personally.

01:10:18.434 --> 01:10:25.036
It's like this, you're always looking
out for your best interests, you know?

01:10:25.349 --> 01:10:25.509
Sure.

01:10:25.605 --> 01:10:30.795
I just, I just think having that, that,
to push against that, that's why I

01:10:30.795 --> 01:10:32.985
don't take it particularly dogmatically.

01:10:33.014 --> 01:10:36.014
It's not like, it's not like
a law that you must fulfill.

01:10:36.014 --> 01:10:41.295
It's like a, it's a call
towards wrestling with this as

01:10:41.295 --> 01:10:43.155
being your goal in your ideal.

01:10:43.160 --> 01:10:43.964
And then, and that's good

01:10:43.964 --> 01:10:44.295
Travis Bader: point.

01:10:44.474 --> 01:10:45.915
Jordan Jonas: Honestly,
you're gonna fall short.

01:10:45.915 --> 01:10:50.115
And I guess that's another interesting
thing about that Christian message in

01:10:50.115 --> 01:10:54.105
particular is that it's like you, there's
kind of like, oh, well there's grace

01:10:54.105 --> 01:10:58.815
for that, but just take it seriously
and, and try, you know, in a way.

01:10:58.815 --> 01:11:03.315
And, uh, I think it just makes you, uh.

01:11:05.175 --> 01:11:08.775
Yeah, I think I, I think, I think we
take for granted how important it's that

01:11:08.985 --> 01:11:13.305
there are so many of us in our culture
that have that, even if we don't even,

01:11:13.305 --> 01:11:18.705
or even if we're not even conscious of
where it came from, we have that operating

01:11:18.705 --> 01:11:20.295
system running in the background.

01:11:20.295 --> 01:11:27.645
Like just even the, you think of like
the message of Jesus to have, uh, to love

01:11:27.645 --> 01:11:32.805
the weak and blessed are the poor and
this and that, uh, that wasn't the norm,

01:11:32.805 --> 01:11:37.215
you know, as, as the Roman historians
wrote, like the strong do what they

01:11:37.215 --> 01:11:40.725
will and the weak suffer, but they must,
and that was the way the world always

01:11:40.725 --> 01:11:43.425
was until, oddly enough, this other.

01:11:44.429 --> 01:11:48.330
Worldview came into the world and
somehow gained enough traction that

01:11:48.330 --> 01:11:52.980
now its tenants just run in our, the
background of our consciousness, even

01:11:52.980 --> 01:11:57.450
though we don't even some, you know, my
may or may not subscribe to where they

01:11:57.450 --> 01:12:00.389
came from, but I could, I feel like
it's one of those things that if we're

01:12:00.389 --> 01:12:01.950
not grateful for it, we could lose it.

01:12:01.950 --> 01:12:04.710
Because I don't think it's a given
in, I don't think it's a given

01:12:04.710 --> 01:12:06.599
in the world, in world history.

01:12:07.740 --> 01:12:12.870
It's an anomaly of, you know,
either consider it supernatural

01:12:12.870 --> 01:12:14.309
or an anomaly of history.

01:12:14.309 --> 01:12:17.759
It's amazing that it happened,
you know, like, because it's

01:12:17.759 --> 01:12:19.980
not a given, and so we should.

01:12:20.835 --> 01:12:21.435
Travis Bader: Well respect

01:12:21.435 --> 01:12:21.795
Jordan Jonas: to that.

01:12:22.200 --> 01:12:24.525
Travis Bader: I, I think
it's a, a universal truth.

01:12:24.525 --> 01:12:27.320
And I think if you look at all these
different religions, they all mm-hmm.

01:12:27.400 --> 01:12:30.495
Will have their points that can
tend to boil down to these, and

01:12:30.495 --> 01:12:34.245
I'm gonna do air brackets, sort
of universal truths or Right.

01:12:34.335 --> 01:12:38.175
Or an operating system for how
things kind of should proceed and

01:12:38.175 --> 01:12:41.145
people will call it by different
names and they'll have different,

01:12:41.145 --> 01:12:43.305
uh, uh, ways to try and to go there.

01:12:43.305 --> 01:12:50.440
But it's hidden in, so far as it goes
against human survival nature of mm-hmm.

01:12:50.535 --> 01:12:55.005
I mean, for me, I gotta make sure mine,
me and mine are, are taken care of.

01:12:55.485 --> 01:12:55.905
Mm-hmm.

01:12:56.115 --> 01:12:57.645
I, I mentioned this to a friend of mine.

01:12:57.645 --> 01:12:59.895
She was over and her daughter was there.

01:12:59.895 --> 01:13:01.245
And I says, you know, at the core.

01:13:01.620 --> 01:13:03.540
Everybody's for themselves.

01:13:04.290 --> 01:13:04.320
Uhhuh.

01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:08.490
It's just some people that line is
really close to their day to day.

01:13:08.490 --> 01:13:09.930
And some people it's pushed further.

01:13:09.930 --> 01:13:11.100
And she's like, I don't believe that.

01:13:11.400 --> 01:13:15.120
I said, okay, so someone throws
a match in this house right

01:13:15.120 --> 01:13:16.260
now and it's burning down.

01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:18.120
And I didn't even have
to finish my statement.

01:13:18.120 --> 01:13:20.700
She says, oh, I'm grabbing
Adelaide first, her daughter.

01:13:20.730 --> 01:13:20.940
Right.

01:13:21.900 --> 01:13:23.400
Well, that, that's how we're designed.

01:13:23.400 --> 01:13:26.160
We're designed intuitively to, uh Right.

01:13:26.160 --> 01:13:29.370
To protect ourselves
in those that we love.

01:13:29.850 --> 01:13:30.450
So

01:13:30.660 --> 01:13:33.420
Jordan Jonas: that, and we're Desi Yeah,
we're, but it, you know, we're also

01:13:33.420 --> 01:13:37.140
really designed intuitively to be tribal.

01:13:37.140 --> 01:13:40.350
It's, you know, to be like, that's
like a deep part of who we're

01:13:40.710 --> 01:13:42.225
to like our ingroup outgroup.

01:13:42.690 --> 01:13:49.890
And it's interesting to have, um,
something else going on in your ethical

01:13:50.220 --> 01:13:57.780
framework that pushes you beyond that
because no, my, my boundary of who is the

01:13:57.780 --> 01:14:00.540
other and who is on my side isn't just.

01:14:01.470 --> 01:14:05.250
Who's in my family or who's in my
group, or even who's in my faith

01:14:05.640 --> 01:14:08.100
scribe, or who's in my country.

01:14:08.100 --> 01:14:13.590
It, you know, it kind of pushes that
beyond our na where it naturally sits.

01:14:13.769 --> 01:14:17.400
Mm. And that's not to say that there's,
I mean, obviously again, it kind of

01:14:17.400 --> 01:14:18.690
goes back to loving your enemies.

01:14:18.750 --> 01:14:21.900
Well, the fact is, is you're still
gonna prefer your family, and it's

01:14:21.900 --> 01:14:23.790
kind of impossible to love your enemy.

01:14:23.975 --> 01:14:24.195
Travis Bader: Mm.

01:14:24.465 --> 01:14:29.790
Jordan Jonas: When it's truly, you know,
truly, you know, when there's truly evil

01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:30.300
Travis Bader: violence

01:14:30.300 --> 01:14:30.870
Jordan Jonas: and all right.

01:14:31.290 --> 01:14:39.240
But, but the, the like operating system
that has that to counter our natural

01:14:39.240 --> 01:14:42.155
selves is incredibly valuable, I think.

01:14:42.210 --> 01:14:43.650
And I think it's taken for granted.

01:14:43.650 --> 01:14:46.920
I don't think I would, I would
back maybe against what you're

01:14:46.920 --> 01:14:50.250
saying, I don't actually think
it's necessarily a universal thing.

01:14:50.250 --> 01:14:52.560
It wasn't even,

01:14:54.600 --> 01:14:58.620
you know, it's not even really
the case historically again.

01:15:01.200 --> 01:15:05.429
Sim simplistically, the ro, the
Roman like ethic was much different.

01:15:05.429 --> 01:15:06.929
It was like you could mm-hmm.

01:15:06.936 --> 01:15:11.940
If you had power over that person because
they were not a Roman citizen or a slave.

01:15:11.940 --> 01:15:15.059
You do whatever you wanted with them
and, and that was the way of the

01:15:15.059 --> 01:15:20.940
world forever, honestly, until Britain
decided to try to end slavery, it was

01:15:20.940 --> 01:15:22.469
the most normal thing in the world.

01:15:22.469 --> 01:15:23.400
It was Right.

01:15:23.400 --> 01:15:26.429
Uh, because we're stronger and
it's our team and whatever.

01:15:26.759 --> 01:15:32.940
But there was something in the world that
decided that, and that honestly it was to,

01:15:33.330 --> 01:15:40.200
I would, in my context, obviously there's
a lot of, in my context, like as far as

01:15:40.200 --> 01:15:44.250
I'm in the west here, but it Christian.

01:15:51.405 --> 01:15:54.585
Them state of being in the world.

01:15:54.855 --> 01:15:58.365
And I just think that that's interesting
and we should under, you know, at least

01:15:58.365 --> 01:16:01.305
recognize it before we throw it all out.

01:16:02.865 --> 01:16:03.255
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:16:03.345 --> 01:16:05.025
Do you know who Roger Banister is?

01:16:05.595 --> 01:16:05.925
No.

01:16:05.925 --> 01:16:08.835
Should I, uh, I don't know, maybe, uh,

01:16:11.685 --> 01:16:13.575
you're kinda like Roger Banister in a way.

01:16:14.115 --> 01:16:14.895
Jordan Jonas: Oh, interesting.

01:16:15.495 --> 01:16:16.185
Travis Bader: So what?

01:16:16.185 --> 01:16:16.245
My

01:16:16.545 --> 01:16:17.205
Jordan Jonas: phone dies.

01:16:17.205 --> 01:16:19.515
I'm gonna try to go get a
charger before it does, but

01:16:19.935 --> 01:16:20.325
Travis Bader: Okay.

01:16:20.505 --> 01:16:20.925
Okay.

01:16:20.955 --> 01:16:21.375
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.

01:16:21.375 --> 01:16:25.305
I'm heading there to tell you
what, who's Roger Banister?

01:16:26.625 --> 01:16:31.215
Travis Bader: So, Roger Banister
back in 1954, he ran a mile in under

01:16:31.215 --> 01:16:34.905
four minutes, Uhhuh prior to 1954.

01:16:35.205 --> 01:16:36.585
They thought that was impossible.

01:16:36.615 --> 01:16:39.765
No man can run a mile
in under four minutes.

01:16:39.825 --> 01:16:39.855
Uh

01:16:40.860 --> 01:16:40.940
Jordan Jonas: huh.

01:16:41.325 --> 01:16:44.264
Travis Bader: A month and a half later,
John Landy goes out there and he runs

01:16:44.264 --> 01:16:49.335
a mile under four minutes, and the next
year there's, uh, three more people go

01:16:49.335 --> 01:16:50.565
out and run a mile under four minutes.

01:16:50.565 --> 01:16:53.985
Year after that, 10 more people
and now thousands do it, and high

01:16:53.985 --> 01:16:56.925
school students will go out and
run a mile under four minutes.

01:16:57.405 --> 01:17:03.735
But what changed was the people's
perception of what is actually possible.

01:17:04.095 --> 01:17:10.095
So Uhhuh, if you look at alone season
six, there were six seasons of alone

01:17:10.095 --> 01:17:14.505
where their contestants competed
and nobody had gotten any big game.

01:17:14.535 --> 01:17:18.075
Uhhuh, you, you were the first
person to go out there, and you

01:17:18.105 --> 01:17:20.535
got a moose uhhuh unsuccessful.

01:17:20.535 --> 01:17:21.675
First time successful.

01:17:21.675 --> 01:17:23.715
Second time you got a moose, lots of meat.

01:17:24.615 --> 01:17:27.465
Next season, somebody
got a big game season.

01:17:27.465 --> 01:17:30.495
After that, someone got a big
game and it's, it's happened

01:17:30.495 --> 01:17:34.995
a number of times afterwards,
Uhhuh, but through your example.

01:17:35.549 --> 01:17:41.370
It's sort of become the norm
that people can expect certain

01:17:41.370 --> 01:17:42.450
things out of themselves.

01:17:43.259 --> 01:17:47.370
And the way that you're talking about
living your life and through your example

01:17:47.370 --> 01:17:50.340
and what you're doing with your kids
and how you've learned from others and

01:17:50.340 --> 01:17:55.679
what you're doing through social media,
you are showing other people a path of

01:17:55.710 --> 01:17:59.190
resiliency in the outdoors and in life.

01:17:59.670 --> 01:18:03.389
I would say that is akin to how
Roger Banister showed people,

01:18:03.389 --> 01:18:04.830
Hey, this is actually possible.

01:18:05.670 --> 01:18:08.429
Jordan Jonas: Well, that's a,
that's, that's a great compliment.

01:18:12.665 --> 01:18:12.955
Travis Bader: Well,

01:18:13.035 --> 01:18:15.269
Jordan Jonas: I be the
case to some degree.

01:18:15.420 --> 01:18:16.049
That be good.

01:18:16.170 --> 01:18:20.730
Travis Bader: But, well, I, I think the
takeaway for me is, is that, um, when

01:18:20.730 --> 01:18:22.200
you put your head towards something.

01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:25.560
Um, really just 'cause it's
never been done before doesn't

01:18:25.560 --> 01:18:27.780
mean it can't be done and Right.

01:18:28.440 --> 01:18:29.490
Well, that was, yeah.

01:18:29.565 --> 01:18:29.985
Mm-hmm.

01:18:30.085 --> 01:18:30.625
No, go ahead.

01:18:30.810 --> 01:18:31.020
Yeah.

01:18:31.020 --> 01:18:35.220
And how am I comporting myself today
in the moment that's gonna serve as

01:18:35.220 --> 01:18:40.710
an example for myself, my family, for
others at a later date and mm-hmm.

01:18:40.740 --> 01:18:43.980
That's some of the message that I'm
hearing when, when you're talking.

01:18:44.430 --> 01:18:45.180
Jordan Jonas: Good, good.

01:18:45.180 --> 01:18:48.870
That, that's, I like how you put
that, but yeah, that's a great, it's

01:18:48.870 --> 01:18:54.450
kind of a great, um, thing to have
running in the background of your mind.

01:18:54.450 --> 01:18:58.950
Just, you know, like, what are you
putting into the world and is that what

01:18:58.950 --> 01:19:00.510
you wanna be putting into the world?

01:19:00.510 --> 01:19:00.600
Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

01:19:01.590 --> 01:19:02.100
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.

01:19:03.900 --> 01:19:04.530
Travis Bader: Um.

01:19:05.429 --> 01:19:08.519
Is there anything I, I mean man,
there's a whole ton more we can

01:19:08.519 --> 01:19:11.669
talk about, but I realize you have
a battery issue that might be, uh,

01:19:12.360 --> 01:19:12.629
Jordan Jonas: concerning.

01:19:12.629 --> 01:19:15.269
Oh, you know, I got plugged in,
so I'd probably have more time.

01:19:15.269 --> 01:19:15.509
Yeah,

01:19:15.719 --> 01:19:16.169
Travis Bader: okay.

01:19:16.650 --> 01:19:19.799
Jordan Jonas: Yeah, it's out charging
my, now I'm ahead of the game.

01:19:20.730 --> 01:19:21.389
Travis Bader: Beautiful.

01:19:21.419 --> 01:19:24.540
And uh, you know, I was gonna
drive down to your location there

01:19:24.540 --> 01:19:27.809
and, uh, and we'll, we're gonna
do this in person, but I was Yeah.

01:19:27.809 --> 01:19:29.280
Ju juggling my other commitments.

01:19:29.280 --> 01:19:32.790
So what we have to do, and I'm like,
I either put this off for a long time

01:19:32.790 --> 01:19:36.599
or we at least get the introduction
and get the ball rolling and have

01:19:36.599 --> 01:19:41.625
this conversation here and maybe are
able to continue the conversation out

01:19:41.625 --> 01:19:45.075
in your neck of the woods or my neck
of the woods, uh, in this future.

01:19:45.075 --> 01:19:45.554
Yeah, absolutely.

01:19:46.259 --> 01:19:46.410
The

01:19:46.410 --> 01:19:47.040
Jordan Jonas: connection

01:19:47.040 --> 01:19:47.250
Travis Bader: has

01:19:47.250 --> 01:19:47.459
Jordan Jonas: been

01:19:47.459 --> 01:19:49.474
Travis Bader: made in, uh,
the connection is made.

01:19:49.875 --> 01:19:50.035
Yeah.

01:19:51.855 --> 01:19:54.990
Uh, you ever make your
way out to, uh, a bc

01:19:56.250 --> 01:19:58.019
Jordan Jonas: Um, not often.

01:19:58.019 --> 01:20:00.839
I don't find myself in BC often though.

01:20:01.410 --> 01:20:02.700
What an awesome place.

01:20:02.700 --> 01:20:03.089
Yeah.

01:20:03.150 --> 01:20:04.620
I mean, it's not, not true.

01:20:05.505 --> 01:20:07.425
Not for lack of appreciating it.

01:20:09.405 --> 01:20:11.055
Travis Bader: Yeah, it's a
pretty interesting place.

01:20:11.085 --> 01:20:12.465
Tons of biodiversity.

01:20:12.465 --> 01:20:13.605
Awesome for hunting.

01:20:13.605 --> 01:20:14.055
Beautiful.

01:20:14.145 --> 01:20:14.385
Oh yeah.

01:20:14.415 --> 01:20:15.495
Rugged wilderness.

01:20:15.675 --> 01:20:17.445
Jordan Jonas: Boy, you
fly over those mountains.

01:20:17.445 --> 01:20:17.925
Uh oh.

01:20:17.925 --> 01:20:18.525
Yeah.

01:20:19.155 --> 01:20:22.935
You spend a lot of time up there
in dc running around, I'm sure.

01:20:23.565 --> 01:20:28.155
Travis Bader: Um, I, I have so many other
questions that I've looked through here.

01:20:28.215 --> 01:20:32.985
Minimalism gear, philosophy,
being present, finding meaning,

01:20:32.985 --> 01:20:34.635
faith, fear in the unknown.

01:20:35.115 --> 01:20:40.065
Talk about the more about the reindeer
herders and, but I think the biggest

01:20:40.065 --> 01:20:43.545
one that I had a mark behind here
was the psychology of isolation.

01:20:44.265 --> 01:20:44.445
Mm-hmm.

01:20:44.690 --> 01:20:51.465
And, and, um, uh, you know, you touched
on, you touched on a lot of the points

01:20:51.465 --> 01:20:55.215
that I was, uh, hoping to uncover
through, through the conversation.

01:20:56.505 --> 01:20:57.765
Uhhuh, uh, there's a couple things here.

01:20:57.765 --> 01:21:00.405
Like was there anything that
you discovered in the isolation

01:21:00.405 --> 01:21:02.025
that you're still processing?

01:21:03.825 --> 01:21:04.425
Jordan Jonas: Um.

01:21:06.030 --> 01:21:07.620
No, not particularly on a loan.

01:21:07.620 --> 01:21:08.760
Again, that was interesting.

01:21:08.790 --> 01:21:10.140
Uh, I did find that,

01:21:12.180 --> 01:21:15.870
uh, I know that alone's been a,
you know, it's a life changing

01:21:15.870 --> 01:21:17.309
experience for a lot of people.

01:21:17.309 --> 01:21:19.830
For me, it felt very similar to Russia.

01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:23.340
And so it, it kind of felt, so
a lot of times when I'm looking

01:21:23.340 --> 01:21:27.240
for those, the things that I, uh,

01:21:29.370 --> 01:21:34.590
went to or had to work through, uh,
I think most of that work was done on

01:21:34.680 --> 01:21:38.370
in those, you know, 10 years that I
was going back and forth to Russia as

01:21:38.370 --> 01:21:41.640
opposed to once by the time I got on
a loan, a lot of those lessons that

01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:46.019
actually already learned, which was such
a big advantage out there, you know?

01:21:46.019 --> 01:21:46.080
Yeah.

01:21:46.080 --> 01:21:48.030
And so, uh,

01:21:50.160 --> 01:21:56.070
but no, I, what I'm working through,
um, is really, is applying some

01:21:56.070 --> 01:21:59.970
of the lessons that I already now
know, you know, like I, and I think

01:21:59.970 --> 01:22:02.400
it would mostly be in relation to.

01:22:03.060 --> 01:22:08.490
If I try to wear, think about where
maybe I'm, it's hard to say, but where

01:22:08.490 --> 01:22:13.380
I'm kind of falling short of what I
know I would think about if I was alone.

01:22:15.180 --> 01:22:15.270
Sure.

01:22:15.270 --> 01:22:16.020
Been there a bunch.

01:22:16.410 --> 01:22:16.500
Sure.

01:22:16.530 --> 01:22:20.820
It's, it's, um, poor example.

01:22:20.820 --> 01:22:24.090
I know every time that I've spent,
well, since I've had kids that I spend

01:22:24.090 --> 01:22:28.410
a long time out in the woods, uh, I
think, ah, you know, when I get back

01:22:28.410 --> 01:22:31.800
I'm gonna like, make a point to take
the kids out on dates, you know, each

01:22:31.800 --> 01:22:36.150
of them I should take out once a week,
you know, once a month or whatever it

01:22:36.150 --> 01:22:41.790
is, and just be consistent about, about
giving them some personal time like that.

01:22:41.820 --> 01:22:43.320
And though I've.

01:22:44.430 --> 01:22:48.600
Had clarity on my priorities enough to
know, to set up my life in such a way

01:22:48.600 --> 01:22:53.760
that I have a good amount of time with my
family and kids I have continued to fail

01:22:55.890 --> 01:22:56.220
doing.

01:22:56.220 --> 01:22:56.280
Yeah.

01:22:58.020 --> 01:23:00.990
The plan setups like that.

01:23:00.990 --> 01:23:02.790
So that's a, that's something,

01:23:04.110 --> 01:23:04.320
Travis Bader: yeah.

01:23:04.320 --> 01:23:04.980
That can be tough.

01:23:05.040 --> 01:23:09.480
It can be tough to have this event that
you're planning towards and doing, but

01:23:09.570 --> 01:23:09.720
Jordan Jonas: yeah,

01:23:10.110 --> 01:23:13.110
Travis Bader: to be able to recognize in
the moment when it's actually happening,

01:23:13.110 --> 01:23:15.240
I think is a very powerful tool as well.

01:23:15.450 --> 01:23:15.660
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.

01:23:15.660 --> 01:23:16.380
Being present.

01:23:16.380 --> 01:23:17.490
And that's a struggle, right?

01:23:17.490 --> 01:23:18.150
Isn't it Now?

01:23:18.240 --> 01:23:22.620
Like even, you know, we can
often be distracted amongst our

01:23:22.800 --> 01:23:27.060
loved ones and not give them the
attention we want or they deserve.

01:23:27.930 --> 01:23:32.730
Travis Bader: Well, what is the notoriety
that you've received after being on alone?

01:23:32.730 --> 01:23:34.440
You're mentioning, you're on Lex Friedman.

01:23:34.440 --> 01:23:35.880
You're on Joe Rogan, like the.

01:23:35.975 --> 01:23:38.855
But those aren't insignificant podcasts.

01:23:38.945 --> 01:23:40.655
You had a lot of eyes on you.

01:23:40.655 --> 01:23:40.745
Mm-hmm.

01:23:42.275 --> 01:23:47.045
And you've, you've got a level
of fame or infamy from mm-hmm.

01:23:47.105 --> 01:23:48.035
From what you've done.

01:23:48.305 --> 01:23:49.775
How's that been like to deal with?

01:23:50.705 --> 01:23:53.705
Jordan Jonas: Well, it's, honestly,
it's a, I sometimes a joke with

01:23:53.705 --> 01:23:59.765
some of my buddies, uh, but it's,
it's at a, it's not too crazy.

01:23:59.765 --> 01:24:04.445
It was interesting hanging out with
Joe Rogan because he is at a level

01:24:04.445 --> 01:24:07.445
of fame that really alters your life.

01:24:07.475 --> 01:24:09.545
You know, like, it, it's difficult.

01:24:09.545 --> 01:24:12.065
He had to, that was, and that was
still when he was in la, but he had

01:24:12.065 --> 01:24:16.805
to go to this unmarked building and
he has all these bodyguard type guys

01:24:16.805 --> 01:24:18.425
around and, you know, it just, uh.

01:24:19.305 --> 01:24:22.845
You know, if he's, the minute he steps
out of his building and walks down the

01:24:22.845 --> 01:24:27.525
street, it's, his experience of life is
gonna be greatly altered by his fame.

01:24:27.525 --> 01:24:28.125
Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.

01:24:28.140 --> 01:24:28.430
Mine

01:24:28.485 --> 01:24:29.445
Jordan Jonas: is actually not like,

01:24:31.785 --> 01:24:32.745
believe it or not,

01:24:35.415 --> 01:24:39.465
but it, but it's kind of funny
because for one, it's kind of

01:24:39.465 --> 01:24:42.015
a fun thing to get known for.

01:24:42.015 --> 01:24:45.735
You know, it was a fun show, a good
show, and, uh, so the people that

01:24:45.735 --> 01:24:50.445
are interested in that, it usually
just leads to a random conversation.

01:24:50.445 --> 01:24:54.405
That's a fun conversation with
some, you know, some stranger That's

01:24:54.405 --> 01:24:55.755
probably a pretty cool person.

01:24:55.755 --> 01:24:58.755
It's like, oh, that's, that
provides those opportunities here

01:24:58.755 --> 01:25:02.715
and there to just have a random
fun conversation while you're out.

01:25:02.775 --> 01:25:08.595
And honestly, it's kind of a
great level of, of if you call it

01:25:08.595 --> 01:25:12.675
fame or whatever, but it's, uh,
leads to some fun conversations,

01:25:12.675 --> 01:25:17.025
A lot of really cool connections,
but it's not life altering in.

01:25:17.955 --> 01:25:21.165
You know, a certain level
of fame would be, I guess.

01:25:22.575 --> 01:25:22.905
Mm-hmm.

01:25:23.070 --> 01:25:23.655
Did you get

01:25:23.655 --> 01:25:26.025
Travis Bader: people reaching
out and hating on you because

01:25:26.025 --> 01:25:27.525
you killed an animal like you?

01:25:27.525 --> 01:25:27.885
Well, less

01:25:27.885 --> 01:25:28.875
Jordan Jonas: than I expected.

01:25:28.875 --> 01:25:29.595
I'll be honest.

01:25:29.595 --> 01:25:32.235
I thought that was gonna be, I was
like, oh, that's gonna be funny getting

01:25:32.235 --> 01:25:37.095
known, especially acts in this Wolverine
that I don't know if most people

01:25:37.095 --> 01:25:38.325
probably think they're endangered.

01:25:38.325 --> 01:25:38.595
I just,

01:25:41.250 --> 01:25:42.165
I was like, oh man.

01:25:42.915 --> 01:25:45.225
Uh, I was expecting more hate than I got.

01:25:45.225 --> 01:25:49.185
And initially when it first came out, I
remember there were a few, but it's been

01:25:49.185 --> 01:25:54.225
surprisingly little and I, uh, maybe
there's, you know, people get all fired up

01:25:54.225 --> 01:26:00.135
on the internet, but if you're thoughtful
about something, and I genuinely am

01:26:00.315 --> 01:26:06.435
thoughtful about, uh, my, you know, ethics
and hunting and things like that, I think

01:26:06.435 --> 01:26:08.325
there's more room for that than we think.

01:26:08.325 --> 01:26:13.275
It's not like, it's not just like, dude,
that shoots everything that moves against.

01:26:14.415 --> 01:26:21.495
Hardcore vegan and you know, there's a
whole world of people out there that are

01:26:21.495 --> 01:26:25.425
open to reason, even if they disagree,
potentially with, you know, somebody

01:26:25.425 --> 01:26:29.655
might choose a path of vegetarianism
even though they hear my best.

01:26:30.255 --> 01:26:34.605
Reasoning as to why I feel like
ethical hunting is a thing, but, uh,

01:26:34.695 --> 01:26:34.785
Travis Bader: sure.

01:26:35.980 --> 01:26:41.144
Jordan Jonas: But, uh, uh, but I don't
think there's as much antagonism there

01:26:41.144 --> 01:26:44.144
as you get the impression sometimes,
which has been my experience.

01:26:44.144 --> 01:26:48.224
Like I said, I expected to have
more hate, I guess you'd say,

01:26:48.230 --> 01:26:49.545
and I just didn't get that much.

01:26:49.545 --> 01:26:50.384
I was like, oh, that's interesting.

01:26:50.384 --> 01:26:53.384
It's positive overall, like
pretty much pretty positive.

01:26:53.384 --> 01:26:57.045
And I had to learn a little bit early
on because you'll get an occasional

01:26:57.045 --> 01:27:01.304
loud idiot saying something and
then I'll just, and I'll find, you

01:27:01.304 --> 01:27:04.065
know, as it does, it just grates
in your mind like, why is that?

01:27:04.394 --> 01:27:07.245
You know, you have to
learn to ignore that.

01:27:07.245 --> 01:27:09.465
And so that was just a
bit of a learning process.

01:27:09.465 --> 01:27:12.014
But I haven't had, I mean, it's not a ton.

01:27:12.014 --> 01:27:13.245
It's not like a, yeah,

01:27:13.425 --> 01:27:13.755
Travis Bader: I think

01:27:13.755 --> 01:27:14.599
Jordan Jonas: not as much as I thought.

01:27:15.014 --> 01:27:15.224
Travis Bader: Yeah.

01:27:15.224 --> 01:27:17.054
My, my experience has been interesting.

01:27:17.054 --> 01:27:21.405
I think, um, you know, a lot of
urban type people, uh mm-hmm.

01:27:21.644 --> 01:27:24.885
Are actually intrigued about the idea
of self-sufficiency and uh mm-hmm.

01:27:24.960 --> 01:27:27.705
Being able to forage and get
their own food and hunting

01:27:27.705 --> 01:27:29.264
and the idea behind it and.

01:27:29.655 --> 01:27:33.855
I, I think it's a very different
sort of, um, mentality now.

01:27:33.885 --> 01:27:35.235
Maybe it's a post covid thing.

01:27:35.565 --> 01:27:39.465
Like I was, yeah, I was invited out
for a dinner friend of mine, and,

01:27:39.465 --> 01:27:41.325
uh, she says, oh, come on over.

01:27:41.325 --> 01:27:44.055
We got some other friends and a
couple are getting into hunting.

01:27:44.055 --> 01:27:46.995
One of them's, uh, transgendered
works for Greenpeace.

01:27:46.995 --> 01:27:47.985
I'm like, A whole lot of sex.

01:27:48.165 --> 01:27:49.545
This person's getting into hunting.

01:27:49.575 --> 01:27:53.835
Like, well, I, I thought there's
a stereotype to working for

01:27:53.835 --> 01:27:56.145
Greenpeace, and they're, they're
getting into hunting, right?

01:27:56.325 --> 01:28:00.675
And so it was, um, it was really, uh.

01:28:01.469 --> 01:28:06.839
Uh, it's, it's been really eyeopening for
me seeing the level of, uh, um, interest

01:28:06.839 --> 01:28:08.790
that people have for shows like alone.

01:28:09.360 --> 01:28:09.570
Mm-hmm.

01:28:10.214 --> 01:28:13.110
I, I think there's a connection
to our natural environment

01:28:13.410 --> 01:28:17.519
that people intuitively know is
missing from their lives and Yeah.

01:28:17.525 --> 01:28:17.575
Yeah,

01:28:17.580 --> 01:28:18.480
Jordan Jonas: you're right on that.

01:28:18.480 --> 01:28:18.780
Yeah.

01:28:18.929 --> 01:28:20.880
Travis Bader: They're looking
for ways to be able to fill that.

01:28:20.880 --> 01:28:25.559
And for me, I see hunting as one of the
ultimate ways to fulfill it, because

01:28:25.559 --> 01:28:29.460
pulling the trigger on an animal if
you're successful enough to find one and

01:28:29.460 --> 01:28:34.559
get on target or using a bow or whatever
it might be, is a fraction of a second.

01:28:34.830 --> 01:28:34.920
Mm-hmm.

01:28:35.255 --> 01:28:38.940
But, but the time that you spend
scouting, the time you spend reading

01:28:38.940 --> 01:28:42.120
and learning, the time you spend just
being present in the woods and listening

01:28:42.120 --> 01:28:45.929
to the critters chirp and the birds
and the patterns and the cycles of the

01:28:45.929 --> 01:28:51.780
day, all of that encompasses a much
deeper connection that I think, and

01:28:51.780 --> 01:28:56.280
Jordan Jonas: I think when you see
someone that's really anti, and I,

01:28:56.280 --> 01:28:59.009
and that's why I can't get that mad
because I just recognize that they

01:28:59.009 --> 01:29:00.990
don't actually, they're usually not.

01:29:01.394 --> 01:29:04.455
Actually aware of what they're
arguing with, you know, like, right.

01:29:04.455 --> 01:29:07.514
'cause most people, like, you know,
like yourself, like you're articulating

01:29:07.514 --> 01:29:11.985
when you're out in the woods, there's
like a deep sense of understanding of

01:29:11.985 --> 01:29:16.875
the interdependence of all the, of us
with nature and with the whole system.

01:29:16.875 --> 01:29:19.184
And you see, you know, this herd of elk.

01:29:19.184 --> 01:29:20.684
It's not like you're
just, oh, I wanna kill.

01:29:20.684 --> 01:29:26.865
It's like you actually want, like
you, you deeply, you deeply respect

01:29:26.865 --> 01:29:28.905
and like appreciate those animals.

01:29:29.055 --> 01:29:29.144
Mm-hmm.

01:29:29.144 --> 01:29:32.894
But at the same time, you are
gonna harvest one, you're kill

01:29:32.894 --> 01:29:33.764
one, you know, and eat it.

01:29:33.825 --> 01:29:37.035
But it's like, but it's a, uh,

01:29:39.855 --> 01:29:45.465
but at the same time, you're gonna
like work towards creating, you know,

01:29:45.465 --> 01:29:49.695
the best situation where that, that
species, those animals can thrive.

01:29:49.695 --> 01:29:55.965
You know, as the North American
conservation model has done a pretty

01:29:55.965 --> 01:30:01.320
good job of doing, which is something
I. That I'm pretty impressed by

01:30:01.320 --> 01:30:06.690
having lived overseas where, uh,
you know, people usually just shoot

01:30:06.690 --> 01:30:10.080
what they see because Sure, sure.

01:30:10.080 --> 01:30:16.830
For a myriad of reasons from, you know,
not having the same, uh, wealth that we

01:30:16.830 --> 01:30:21.360
do to just not having the same societal
trust levels that we have the luxury of

01:30:21.360 --> 01:30:23.160
living in and all that kind of stuff.

01:30:23.160 --> 01:30:28.170
The, uh, but ours conservation
model, it's amazing.

01:30:28.170 --> 01:30:29.400
I'm always like, that's so cool.

01:30:29.400 --> 01:30:32.610
We live right near town and there's
deer all over the place and you

01:30:32.610 --> 01:30:35.670
can see elk and people aren't
just shooting them all the time.

01:30:35.670 --> 01:30:36.090
It's mm-hmm.

01:30:36.750 --> 01:30:39.300
Uh, that's great.

01:30:44.730 --> 01:30:48.720
There's no, you know what I, where I
think people get it wrong is people

01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:55.470
think that we can exist and we can
separate ourselves from, from nature.

01:30:55.470 --> 01:30:56.130
And the wild.

01:30:56.130 --> 01:30:57.540
And the wild can exist over there.

01:30:57.540 --> 01:31:01.440
And we can exist over here, but we're,
and then, and you see it when you

01:31:01.440 --> 01:31:04.830
live close like I do to wild places.

01:31:04.830 --> 01:31:09.630
It's like even if you wanted humans
to not affect nature, they do.

01:31:09.630 --> 01:31:13.560
And even if you personally are
gonna try not to eat a particular

01:31:13.560 --> 01:31:16.590
type of animal, animals are being
killed in the process of making your

01:31:16.590 --> 01:31:19.230
food and the process of shipping it
here and there and refrigerating,

01:31:19.530 --> 01:31:21.840
there's like habitat loss involved.

01:31:21.840 --> 01:31:27.150
There's just a lot of factors where
we live pushes the animals into less

01:31:27.360 --> 01:31:29.545
ideal wintering grounds and mm-hmm.

01:31:29.625 --> 01:31:32.145
Where accidentally
introduced invasive species.

01:31:32.405 --> 01:31:35.370
And it just like, these are
very complicated situations.

01:31:35.370 --> 01:31:39.810
So rather than acting like we can't,
cannot be a part of them, we need to.

01:31:40.795 --> 01:31:45.300
Cognize that we're, and do it thoughtfully
and well, you know, be the well

01:31:45.300 --> 01:31:45.630
Travis Bader: said.

01:31:46.350 --> 01:31:46.650
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.

01:31:46.650 --> 01:31:46.710
So

01:31:47.460 --> 01:31:47.670
Travis Bader: well

01:31:47.670 --> 01:31:47.880
Jordan Jonas: said.

01:31:47.880 --> 01:31:55.500
And I think people are in general open
to that message when, when they have an

01:31:55.500 --> 01:31:57.360
open mind at all and are discussing it.

01:31:57.420 --> 01:32:00.330
But, and a lot of times I don't
think people even rec, you know,

01:32:00.330 --> 01:32:02.580
there's just a lot of that that
people haven't thought about.

01:32:03.080 --> 01:32:06.540
You know, when you don't live in a, in
a world that is connected in nature,

01:32:06.540 --> 01:32:10.140
because it's easy, easy in an urban
environment to totally feel like we're

01:32:10.140 --> 01:32:14.340
not dependent on wild places and such.

01:32:15.270 --> 01:32:18.660
Travis Bader: Well, is there
anything that we haven't talked about

01:32:18.660 --> 01:32:19.950
that we should be talking about?

01:32:21.435 --> 01:32:22.375
Jordan Jonas: Oh boy.

01:32:22.595 --> 01:32:24.750
Oh my man, that was a fun conversation.

01:32:24.750 --> 01:32:25.170
Honestly.

01:32:25.170 --> 01:32:30.390
I, uh, don't always talk about
the faith and things like

01:32:30.390 --> 01:32:31.920
that, so that's kind of fun.

01:32:32.250 --> 01:32:34.320
But the, uh, uh.

01:32:36.035 --> 01:32:37.710
I, I dunno, Travis

01:32:38.430 --> 01:32:41.910
Travis Bader: probably there probably
is, probably is Is there anything that

01:32:41.910 --> 01:32:43.380
you wanna leave the listeners with?

01:32:44.670 --> 01:32:45.240
Jordan Jonas: Oh, I don't know.

01:32:45.240 --> 01:32:50.190
I guess, yeah, appreciate people
listening with an open mind and

01:32:50.190 --> 01:32:54.990
yeah, we're typically all on the, you
know, typically all on the same team.

01:32:54.990 --> 01:32:59.550
If we can figure out some of those
and there's gonna be differences.

01:32:59.550 --> 01:33:02.730
But I, it's been one of the fun
things taking people out on trips in

01:33:02.730 --> 01:33:07.950
the mountains is I get people from
all over, you know, and from very

01:33:07.950 --> 01:33:13.920
different political spectrums and
different countries and we all get

01:33:13.920 --> 01:33:17.820
out in the woods and you just realize
everybody's, we actually all get along.

01:33:23.625 --> 01:33:25.695
Through filters, basically
through social media.

01:33:26.294 --> 01:33:26.355
Yeah.

01:33:26.355 --> 01:33:28.184
Seeing each other as another person.

01:33:28.184 --> 01:33:32.384
And you can have a conversation around
the fire and it enrich everybody

01:33:32.384 --> 01:33:35.025
and you see that, oh, that person.

01:33:36.464 --> 01:33:36.794
Yeah.

01:33:36.794 --> 01:33:40.875
It's been one of the most fun things
about running the trips that run is just,

01:33:41.865 --> 01:33:47.445
is recognizing that and, uh, especially
in times that have been, because I've

01:33:47.445 --> 01:33:52.724
been doing this since, you know, around
covid before Covid a little bit or,

01:33:52.844 --> 01:33:59.025
and, uh, it'll have all been politically
divisive to see that that's not necessary.

01:34:00.224 --> 01:34:03.315
Travis Bader: Well, um, it looked
like your, it says your recording

01:34:03.315 --> 01:34:05.235
stopped there for a second, maybe.

01:34:05.745 --> 01:34:07.035
Jordan Jonas: Yeah, I got a phone call.

01:34:07.035 --> 01:34:08.535
I hit it end, but apparently,

01:34:08.565 --> 01:34:11.775
Travis Bader: oh well Jordan, delete

01:34:11.775 --> 01:34:12.405
Jordan Jonas: the whole thing.

01:34:13.155 --> 01:34:13.515
Travis Bader: That's it.

01:34:13.725 --> 01:34:14.085
Done.

01:34:14.085 --> 01:34:14.745
Throw it out.

01:34:14.835 --> 01:34:15.255
We're done.

01:34:15.735 --> 01:34:16.575
You ruined it.

01:34:16.575 --> 01:34:17.835
Ah, I tell ya.

01:34:19.695 --> 01:34:24.135
Um, Jordan, thank you so much for
being on the Silver Hor podcast.

01:34:24.135 --> 01:34:25.510
You're welcome back anytime.

01:34:25.510 --> 01:34:25.910
Thanks.

01:34:25.910 --> 01:34:26.070
Thanks.

01:34:26.265 --> 01:34:27.555
I really enjoyed this conversation.

01:34:27.585 --> 01:34:27.765
Yeah,

01:34:27.765 --> 01:34:28.035
Jordan Jonas: right.

01:34:28.035 --> 01:34:28.905
I appreciate it.