Travis Bader: Before we dive into this episode, I want to share
something that's been on my mind.
The outdoors doesn't reveal who you are.
It reveals who you pretend to be.
I've been thinking a lot about how easily we can fool ourselves with
titles, with gear, with comfort, but when you're out there alone in
the quiet, none of that matters.
You're left with the truth and the truth can be uncomfortable.
Or it can be the most freeing thing in the world, and that's why I was
so excited to sit down with Jordan.
He's someone who's gone through that kind of truth.
He didn't just survive alone, he lived it.
He leaned into solitude, into discomfort, into stillness, and came out the
other side with something deeper.
In this conversation, we talk survival, family, faith, mindset,
all of the stuff you'd expect.
But what struck me the most was his humility.
Jordan doesn't posture, he doesn't preach.
He just shares his experience and lets it speak for itself.
That's something I respect a lot.
If this kind of conversation resonates with you, if you're someone who's
been craving more than just surface level content, I'll give you a heads
up on something we've been working on.
The Silver Core Club is about to get a big upgrade.
We're building a space for deeper dives.
Practical insights, training, tips behind the scenes, thoughts and stories that
don't always make it into the public feed.
It's not ready yet, but it's coming.
And if you are the kind of person who values growth, capability, and connection,
I think you're gonna want to be there.
Now let's get on with the podcast.
I'm joined today by a man who's rode with nomadic reindeer herders in Siberia,
hunted Wolverines with a hatchet, and became a household name after outlasting
every other contestant in the grueling Arctic on the survival show alone.
He's part philosopher, part frontiersman, and all heart.
A man who didn't just survive the wild, but found peace and clarity in it.
Whether he is teaching others to reconnect with nature or exploring
life's deeper questions, his insights are raw, real, and profoundly human.
Welcome to the Silver Corp Podcast, Jordan Jonas.
Jordan Jonas: Well, thanks.
Appreciate the kind introduction.
Travis Bader: Hey, I figured my job's done.
I can sit back.
Yeah, and you can be all talking now.
Jordan Jonas: Stroked my ego for a little while.
Travis Bader: You're the very first person I've ever had who's done
the podcast out in the woods with beautiful bull pines, Ponderosa pines.
Man, that's awesome.
Jordan Jonas: Springtime.
It's hard to sit inside right now, so I'm glad the connection's good enough.
Travis Bader: Oh yeah, no, the connection's.
Awesome.
Are you just working off of like cell cell service or is this like a Starling thing?
Yeah, it's
Jordan Jonas: just cell service, so good deal.
Travis Bader: Oh, I love it.
Well, a lot of people already know who you are.
Um, some people don't.
Uh, I've actually had the opportunity to meet with one of your compatriots
on season six alumni, Nikki Van.
Oh, cool.
Well, she's been on the podcast and she's a real Oh yeah.
She's a real cool cat.
And she, I like her.
She's fun.
Yeah.
Oh, she's so fun.
And her positivity and her mindset is on point.
And, uh, you know, she, she recently reached out and she says, Trav, uh,
I'm involved with this other Fox show.
They've asked me to be a consultant for it.
Um, or she didn't say it was a Fox show.
I think it was all hush hush and top secret.
Yeah.
Some kind of show.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm involved with this other kind of show, um, but there's
gonna be like a hunting portion and contingent maybe, and like, can you
come on and help out the contestants?
And I'm like, I. Sure.
I know nothing about this Hollywood thing.
Right, right.
But they, but she, um, had me come up, introduced me to the crew, turned out it
was Sylvester Stallone's Balboa Group and it was this Fox show called Extracted.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So we went up to Whistler and they bring these contestants in one at a time,
and we had to give 'em training and testing and I mean, like, usually we
do training as a group, but these guys couldn't see each other and Oh, yeah.
Got me.
Megan hin, she's a cool cat as well, who's a British survivalist.
So interesting world that you kinda roll in with these other people who just,
just pursue their passion and they just end up finding these opportunities.
Like, like what you've had.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.
For all our love of the, you know, like the, some of the things we've
lost touch with in the modern world.
It's amazing the opportunities that it provides.
Yeah.
Well, why do you think that is?
What's that?
Why do you think that is?
Why is it that people are deeply craving Oh, connect So much easier to connect
with people around the world who, you know, you have a skill or an ability and
there's people that have a desire to, you know, learn from you or whatever, and it
just broadens your net so much more than you could a hundred years ago or 10 years
Travis Bader: years.
Yeah, no kidding.
Jordan Jonas: It's pretty wild.
It's, it's, it's neat to appreciate, you know, the, the blessing we have
in, in our modern world right now, as much as there are to overcome.
But, uh, yeah, it's, that's pretty great.
I almost, I wondered that sometimes when I was living with the
natives out there, uh, in Siberia.
Long story, we get there.
It's, we almost live in a time where you can have the best of both worlds
if you, if you play your cards right.
You know, if you kind of, we've lost a lot of, some of the older, the lessons that
come in a in a more rural rural or Sure.
But we've, um, gained a lot of opportunity and security at the same time.
So the ability to combine those is pretty great if you can.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
And you know, with the internet and everything, we've got the access to be
able to learn all of these things that people in back in the day wouldn't,
they wouldn't have that ability.
Oh
Jordan Jonas: yeah.
But,
Travis Bader: but the issue is, I think, is that we're so overloaded with
information that it comes in, it comes out and people are kind of dilettante
into what they kinda get into, and.
Absolutely.
That's where somebody like yourself is a big value.
Uh, people can go to your Instagram and check you out on hobo, jordo,
we'll put, we'll put links into the, uh, the description here.
But you're essentially an information concierge.
They can view things through your eyes.
All this info comes in and, but you're out there living it and you're doing
it and they say, huh, it works for him.
Maybe I'm gonna give it a shot.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah, absolutely.
Trying to reshuffle a little bit.
So you do have a little bit more mental space in what is a Yeah,
an information overload world.
No time.
You know, we're constantly distracted and that's very tangible, so, uh, you
almost have to force your hand at times.
I actually appreciate that about heading up in the wilderness and getting outdoors.
I somewhat dread when.
Starling's gonna be universally, you know, available, but you almost have
to force yourself into situations where you're disconnected and it,
and then you can kind of delve more into your well undistracted mind.
Travis Bader: I mean, it's so tempting.
I mean, you got this, I was on a, I was on a moose hunt in, um, in British
Columbia here this last season.
Yeah.
And, um, I'm, I'm trying to find something.
I'm using the OnX and the eye hunter apps and this thing keeps
popping up and it says, oh, do you wanna connect to satellite?
For, uh, for text messages.
I'm like, no, no, nope.
And then my wife, she does it.
She's like, I'm getting text messages.
I could send a receive and uhoh.
I mean, like, it's, it's cool, but I like the fact that we disconnect and
they're, you don't have that ability to actually read somebody because it,
it takes away that easy option, that easy little lifeline back to something.
Uh, absolutely.
You
Jordan Jonas: almost have to force it too.
It's like, uh, and it's funny because if you go without, you know, the modern
technology or phone and you're up in the mountains for a week or two, you
find, you just don't miss it at all.
It, you just, it's not even day one, you know, there's just no
aspect of you that misses it.
But when you have it, it just absorbs so much of your consciousness.
So it's a odd thing I always find when I'm coming out of the woods.
'cause of course I have a running a little business and stuff and all this.
I know I'm gonna have a lot of.
Message now.
I just have feel that bit of dread, like, oh man, here comes service.
Travis Bader: Well, that, that's the tough part.
I mean, running a business is my justification.
I'm back on social media.
Like I, I would never have social media if it wasn't for the business.
Jordan Jonas: Likewise.
Travis Bader: But then you're on, it's like, okay, I guess I gotta put a message
out or we have to connect a little bit.
And I'd love, I love some of the connections that I've been
able to make because of it.
Mm-hmm.
What I don't love is all the cool stuff that pops up and my A DHD kicks into
Hyperdrive and I'm like, oh, that's cool.
Oh, that's cool.
And I start flipping through.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.
We're on the, we're on the vanguard of humans trying to figure out
it.
They got some talented computer scientists over there hacking our psychology.
That's exactly
Travis Bader: what they do.
Uh, so tell me about hobo Gido.
How'd you come up with that?
Jordan Jonas: Oh, I, uh, you know, and I, I guess I must have been 18 or so and I,
uh, I was just working at a salad dressing factory in Idaho and then, uh, my brother
had ridden at one point had, you know, headed off and randomly started riding
freight trains and, uh, like an old, old time hobo, he, and he actually loved it.
He loved the freedom of it and kind of the lack of, uh, schedule and responsibility.
Any, any road trains were what would end up being seven or eight years where
he just basically just lived out there and rode around like a, like a dang bum.
But he
Travis Bader: as one does
Jordan Jonas: just no, but was.
Uh, he was also, uh, unusually unusual for that, you know, realm sober.
So yeah, he was able to, uh, you know, just have a pretty rich
experience and build a lot of relationships with people and all that.
Anyway, he really liked it and at one point he's older than me and at one point
he invited me, uh, to come with him.
So quit my job and head out, headed out there.
And, uh, I thought it was really neat.
I've thought about it since a lot because it, in hindsight, I wasn't conscious of
it at the time, but it really felt like a sort of a fork in the road and a bit of
a rite of passage for me because instead of just being stuck on the same routine
that I, that most people do, it kind of put me out there, got me way outta my
comfort zone and, you know, just having, having an adventure and new, new ways of
thinking and doors that got opened and all that, and, you know, and eventually, hmm.
Yeah, it was a, it was a pretty awesome experience.
I, that first night I was, it was in April, so it was still pretty cold.
We were on the high line, it's called, uh, going through North Dakota and all that.
And, uh, uh, got a big rainstorm and you know, those trains go 55
miles an hour when they're up there.
And, uh, mm-hmm.
I was asleep.
I dunno how I did.
I must have been exhausted, but I slept through the rainstorm and I, I
actually woke up to my brother, had shimmied along the train car 'cause
he was on another one, shim along back to me and like, woke me up.
He was like, oh dude, I thought you, I was hoping you, uh, you
know, I thought you might have
Travis Bader: not
Jordan Jonas: woken up.
Which I don't know why I even thought that.
But anyways, long story short.
Absolutely drenched.
I was in a puddle of water another while I probably would've drowned in
my, got totally soaked and uh, uh, it was quite the, uh, introduction to
hobo because, uh, you know, middle of the night, North Dakota wind blowing,
I was drenched, didn't have anything dry and uh, I got pretty dang cold.
I remember, I've never been more, more acutely aware of how the
sun can rise but not produce heat for a period of time, you know?
Yeah.
Just watching it like, oh, come on, Katie.
It was, that was a pretty intense and funny, uh, introduction to the ho bowing.
But then, yeah, I traveled across the country with them.
We ended up in Virginia.
Did some, you know, we'd do some temporary work there and then went up the East
Coast and back around and ended up back in, uh, you know, north Idaho ultimately.
But that also was somewhat one of the first times I had.
You know, spend a good amount of time alone, at least enough to get
from Minneapolis to Spokane or what.
Yeah.
So that was an interesting, you know, it was just a real, and it was a cool
experience, particularly for a young man.
Like, just see what's out there.
Travis Bader: I'd see.
So did you ever run into, uh, the police trying to get you off or chase me around?
Oh yeah.
Jordan Jonas: You know, you, that, that was actually, I might have been
a day or two after I got soaked there.
We came into some train yard and, uh, we had kind of done it on a, you know,
been, my brother invited me and I said yes, and we didn't really take time to.
To get coached or anything by him.
But, so we were coming into the train yard and he pulled up his little monocular.
He's like, oh shoot, they're searching the train up there.
Like, we gotta get off.
And so we all just started, you know, I don't know, when you're
on the train, it doesn't feel like it's moving that fast that time.
Oh, but it's moving.
You gotta pro to properly dismount a train.
You gotta climb down the ladder, run with it, get your feet moving,
and then let go, and you can kind of run with the train and run off.
I didn't realize that.
And we're in a hurry, and the police were searching the train.
It was still moving, so I just jumped off feet, can't catch up
on it, rolled down and got up and we, but we got away on that one.
And then a lot of times they didn't care.
You know, a lot of times you'd go up to a train worker and ask them where the train
was headed and they'd, they'd advise you.
I'd, I'd say that was probably the norm.
Although more often you just try not to get seen, just to avoid any issues.
But, uh.
But, uh, yeah, we went to spend a night in jail in DeKalb County, Indiana and
Travis Bader: Oh, yeah.
Jordan Jonas: You know, but that was an experience too.
And, uh, what was that like?
Well, that was funny too because I, uh, we were on the train and my
brother woke up and in the night an al had hit the train, like a, an al
had hit it and died and landed on him.
And we were joking about, oh man, that's gotta be some bad Native American old man.
Oh yeah.
That Al lands on his head, it's deaf.
They were looking out the train and saw a bunch of workers and they were, you
know, intently looking at the train.
And one of them saw us and he like pointed to us and gave us
the throat slit hand gesture.
And we're like, oh, that's definitely a bad omen.
And so we started looking around and sure enough, once again, we could see the
police searching the train up there and we thought, oh, should we jump off and
run for the bushes or see what happens?
And we're like, well, let's just see what happens.
So we.
Kind of hit under some cardboard boxes and rolled through, and
funnily enough, we got past
us.
Disappointed because it was canine training day, and so they had 12
canine units there and they were all excited that we might run.
Glad we made the right choice.
Travis Bader: Yeah, it sounds like you did.
Jordan Jonas: But anyway, went to the, went to jail.
It was really just a misdemeanor, you know, it's like a trespassing charge.
It wasn't a huge deal, but, uh, spent a night there and, and, uh, yeah, it was a,
it was, you know, definitely memorable.
I remember it was a funny little town because they would march you again, you're
just there for a trespassing charge, but they would march you from the jail
to the courthouse, which was several blocks away, but you know, in chains
with your hands behind your back chain.
Oh wow.
Chain up leg March you through town you like.
Cool Luke.
Yeah, totally funny experience.
But, uh, yeah, so all kinds of little.
Adventures doing that.
And you know, every night you're out sleeping and you don't know
where you're gonna get your meal and who you're gonna meet.
And so,
Travis Bader: yeah.
Well, what about the other writers always out
Jordan Jonas: in the world experiencing it, you know, like
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Jordan Jonas: Interacting with different people.
Uh, and yeah, it was, it was interesting.
So.
Travis Bader: Well, what about the other hobos that you'd be riding
with as with rugs and Temple House?
Well, I typically
Jordan Jonas: rode with my, there, you know, with my
brother and our other friend.
And, uh, the three of us would usually ride rode together.
And so, uh, that kept it pretty simple.
Of course.
Um, you know, you'd run into other hobos occasionally, but we kind of
tried to stick on our, you know, most, like I said, a lot, a lot of, we have
a lot of friends who are hobos or were hobos at the time or whatever.
Most of them had.
Issues of different types.
And so, so it was a little easier to travel as a sober person,
kind of with other sober people.
And I only know a couple of them that were hobo of my brother and my friends.
Gotcha.
We kind stuck together and didn't, uh, but, uh, but yeah, we'd always, when we'd,
every city you'd get to, it's kind of a small community, so you'd find out that,
oh, DeVos down in, you know, in New York.
So we'd end up going and running into him, you know, finding people whenever you were
in a certain town, you'd go to the park and reach out and see who was where and
Travis Bader: Okay.
Do they still hang
Jordan Jonas: out?
Travis Bader: Do they still do the hobo sign thing like
they did way back in the day?
Oh yeah.
I
Jordan Jonas: mean, they're around there.
They have little, well, this is all past, I mean, this is all before cell phones.
I'm sure it's totally changed now, but there was a, a, a genius level hobo guy.
I never met him.
My brother knew him well, that, that.
Kept track of every train yard in the country and, and the, you know, where
trains would come into, where they would leave, where you could catch 'em
best, where you could get your closest meal, where you could, uh, you know,
the time the times trains typically came and which time would go and, you
know, when it was leaving the yard, at what time where it would likely end up.
Anyway, he had it for the whole, the whole country.
It must have been definitely a, some kind of a genius.
And he'd print that out and give that to the people he really trusted.
So that was, that's, I still have one of those little pamphlets
he made, which is kind of cool.
And No kidding.
Travis Bader: Whole little underground community.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah, exactly.
Travis Bader: Well, what got you over to, uh, Siberia?
Jordan Jonas: Uh, yeah, so I ended up, when apart, you know, we lived
in Virginia a lot of the time there 'cause we could get work there and, uh.
I was there.
Long story short, I have another brother who's adopted, and when he became
an adult, he found his biological family and he had a biological
brother that was about my age.
And so when we all met, uh, that guy was just telling me about how they were gonna
be building this orphanage in Russia and he was gonna go help, uh, um, some
missionary guy over there, build it.
And I, uh, I was like, oh, interesting.
I hadn't honestly thought a lot about Russia, aside from my interest in
history and stuff, but I, uh, never thought of going there, but I kind of
on a whim or you know, like kind of unserious almost just was like, well
Lord, if you want me to go over there and help out, gimme a sign or something.
And I, uh, when we headed up to New York and met some Russians and was like,
oddly, oddly blown away, or, you know, I don't know, I was very heavily moved.
Um.
To, like, I just felt for them very deeply in a way that it all brought
tears in my eyes, honestly, which was very strange in my experience.
So I, I just took that as a answer to that prayer unexpectedly.
And I was like, all right, well, I'll just buy a ticket for a
year and go and see what happens.
And, uh, and so I did that.
I ended up there, I was a few months later in Russia, you know, without much
of a, I didn't have much of a roadmap.
I just had a flash of clarity, uh, uh, in my life purpose at the time to, to go.
But beyond that, I didn't have much of anything.
So I was in a little village in Siberia, and we worked on that little, uh, building
where they were trying to build the orphanage and, you know, dug well by hand.
You know, just doing all that kind of yeah.
Work.
And, um, the.
The guy that I lived with was, was one of the cool, coolest people I know.
Uh, but he was an American and I wanted Russian man know Russian I live with,
he called the neighboring village.
That guy, uh, that Russian was just like, oh man, I need to, that'd be amazing.
Send the American over.
I need to go to work.
My wife's in the hospital and I got these, you know, little
kids that need to get watched.
Oh, there you, you go only 21 or 22.
But I went over there.
I'd never really messed with kids at all, but just drop me in the deep
end of this, like Siberian village life, watching this guy's kids.
We'd cut hay with a sigh and stack it in those piles like
you see back in the twenties.
Yeah.
Like, like mother
Travis Bader: hand used to do in the old Richard Ski books.
Yeah, absolutely.
Jordan Jonas: Absolutely.
You know, make a, we'd make a, you wouldn't go buy a rake to rake up your
hay, you'd make one outta wood, you know?
Cool.
So we had all these handmade tools and Yeah.
And then, you know, plant potatoes, milk the cow every day.
It was really interesting village life.
Uh, and that the man I had been there with had been in prison years back and, uh.
Together with another, another guy.
And that other guy was super funny, like covered in Russian prison
tattoos and just a, a fiery dude.
He'd always, but very Siberian, very northern.
He'd, he'd always tell me how he had never seen a, never seen an apple on a tree.
Like, you know.
Wow.
Like a man of the north for sure.
Wow.
He would tell me stories about the one time he saw, you know, a,
uh, like a minority on the train.
I saw black guy once on the train.
It was, uh, anyway, to him it was really interesting.
I was like, man, sure.
Grown up in this northern orphanage in Siberia.
Had a rough life.
Went to prison a couple times.
That's where those two guys met.
And then he got out and he had kind of been a changed man, you
know, they found God in prison.
And, uh, so between those two families, I spent my first year there and.
A third guy that had been in prison with was this fur trapper,
you know, from, from the north.
And he really cool guy.
He invited me up to live with him in fur Trap in the far north.
So that kind of led me up that direction.
And there I was in Northern Siberia, uh, uh, with this guy
and he took me out in the woods.
We, he kind of gave me a brief rundown on how to set the
traps and how all this works.
We went to the cabin, some of the cabins and stocked them with noodles.
But aside from that, all I really knew of the place was via topographical map.
And so it was, uh, that was a really, uh, there, that was it.
We, we got it all figured out.
Got it all set up.
It's winter time.
Know about November, uh, or October, November, something like that.
And then.
He went off to a series of cabins in one direction and I went in another
and I went, you know, we separated for like five weeks and just opened
traps and checked them and lived off the land to supplement our noodles.
And it was like way in the deep end right away.
Honestly, I didn't know what I was doing.
And it was, it was, I learned a lot of great lessons fast, you know?
Travis Bader: Was it scary or was it exciting, or like,
Jordan Jonas: oh, it was exciting and it was like, you know, there's something
about when you're alone that, and you have this thing that you need to do that's
kind of out of your league a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
Travis Bader: That is
Jordan Jonas: interesting in that even if it's too much or it's too hard or so, or
you don't really know what you're doing, nobody's gonna fix that problem except
you, uh, because you're alone and no amount of whining or anything will help.
So you really get in this mode where you just make it happen and
you make things happen and you're not, I wasn't thinking about.
Uh, no, I wasn't scared.
I was, uh, always hoping to get something, you know, get a
grouse or get some, sure, sure.
There's a bit of pressure on you to produce something.
Um, and I spent a lot of days, you know, I'd get turned around and lost and,
uh, lots of extra days just trying to find the next trap in some trap line.
You know, maybe since the last time someone had been there, forest fires
had gone through and, you know, who knows where all these things are.
So I, uh, I fell through the ice in this river at one point and.
You know, that's another hard lesson.
You know, obviously now if I'm going across, you're, I'm a little more aware of
how water and rivers and ice work, but you know, a lot of the places, it's Siberia.
You got feet of ice on the river, you don't really think about it.
But of course, there's places where undercurrents are hitting the water
and the ice is thin and you get caught.
Did you get sucked under?
Didn't think.
No, I didn't.
I just went in with my legs and hopped out.
But of course then I was in the middle of Siberia soaking with, with, uh,
but that was the best case scenario.
But I, I made, I got, I made it out, got back to the cabin, it warmed up my
leg was, you know, burning on, you know, when as it woke up, it kind of got very
cold and died and then came to life.
Yeah.
Did you get frostbite on that or no?
I don't think so.
It was nothing per, nothing permanent.
Yeah.
It was the.
Uh, yeah.
Travis Bader: Water's scary.
Water can, uh, well, water's
Jordan Jonas: scary and, and yeah, there's just margins of air small.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I got into quite a few situations that were, were just tough and I, I
thought it was, it was, it was good.
You know, you're by yourself.
I thought it was interesting mentally also.
That was my first time on such an extended period of time where you realize how much
pops into your head when you're alone for a long period of time, and how much
unpredictable, you know, any skeletons in your closet are gonna rear their head,
or any conversations you should have had that you didn't have are gonna come up.
And, uh, and when you're alone, those fester in your head, but you have no
way of really settling them because you're just by yourself and there's
nobody to talk to about it or anything.
So, so they just roll around in your head.
And I'm, I, I thought that was interesting.
I was.
Fortunate enough there to have like a pen and paper.
So writing helped, you know?
Right.
And then I was like, okay, when I get outta here, I'm gonna, you know, get
ahold of that guy and tell him, you know, make things right and stuff like that.
But,
Travis Bader: so, uh, as you write these things down, and that's a really cool
tip because that's a huge part of why I want to talk to you is about the, the
mental aspect that you display and mm-hmm.
But, uh, writing these things down, they probably seem very important in the moment
when you're out there and very pertinent.
And when you come back into civilization and you look back at
this, did it hold the same weight?
Jordan Jonas: Definitely didn't, I would say, because it is, you know, once you
get back into civilization, there's just so much more distraction and so much, you
know, when you're out there again, those things will just roll around in your head
without really a way to resolve them.
And so, or even share the mental burden of them.
So you, so it really just.
Occupies a large percentage of your mind when, uh, writing, again,
writing it down helps just so you can Oh yeah, I'll handle that later.
Okay.
Write it down.
I like that.
But then once I got out, I would, I did find that on a lot of that stuff I would
follow up on, but not on everything.
'cause then once I was out, it didn't affect me as much, you know?
But I, I would say for someone I was advising, like, say you were gonna get on
that alone show, or something like that.
Mm-hmm.
I would definitely advise you to, to spend some time ahead of time
by yourself long enough to see what types of things might pop up.
I mean, maybe it's obvious, maybe you know what, but you know, ends
are untied in your life, but there's a good chance that you don't.
Right.
And if you don't create the space to find out what those are and then
resolve 'em and then head out on that, in that, into that experience,
um, with all those ducks in a row as much as they can be, because, uh.
It'll really bo eat you up out there if you have serious stuff to work through.
It's a terrible place to go work through issues, you know?
And, and on some degree, to some degree it's a great place to
recognize what they're but, but hard,
Travis Bader: hard to resolve.
You can see 'em.
It's like having, having an enemy that you just can't punch.
You can't connect.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Um, so good friend of mine, um, actually he's the one who
brought you on on my radar.
He is like, you gotta talk with this guy.
He's awesome.
Right?
Oh, right.
But he was,
Jordan Jonas: tell him, hi,
Travis Bader: I will, but I'm gonna leave his name out here.
Because, um, he was talking about, um, some difficulties that he was having.
Mm-hmm.
And I was like, you know, for me, I'll go out into the bush, I'll
get away from cells, I'll try and reduce the distractions that I have.
Mm-hmm.
Jordan Jonas: And
Travis Bader: that's my way of kind of, um, kind of decompressing and bringing
things into a bit more of a focal point of what's actually important.
Mm-hmm.
He says, well, I.
I tried that and I was out there for 45 minutes, a couple hours, and I hated it.
All these thoughts are coming and all these things.
It's like, yeah, I had to get back into self service and I had no Interesting.
Yeah.
And I said, well, that's because it's masking when you, when you're with all the
people and all the stuff around you, it creates a level of noise that can now kind
of mask whatever that underlying thing is.
And I suggested maybe find a way to push through, but, um, mm-hmm.
There's a, a question that's sort of related that comes up.
It says, I'd love to know more about his thought process and
self-talk while he is on the show.
He's obviously very skilled and knowledgeable, but what really stood
out for me is his calm, almost zen-like energy throughout the whole process.
Is this a byproduct of skills and knowledge?
Is it a character trait or is it a conscious decision he had
to make every day to survive?
Jordan Jonas: And to some degree it's all three.
So like I, I won't deny that I have a, um, personality that is a bit, I don't
have an anxious personality per se.
Travis Bader: Um, you don't have, or you do have?
I don't.
Jordan Jonas: Okay.
So like, I will say there's some degree, which, you know, it's a, one
of the, my natural state of being, but that's, it's definitely a product of
environment also because, um, and lessons I've learned in life over the years.
So I will say, uh, alone was interesting because for me, and
it's kind of, it probably comes across on the show, although they,
I obviously tried to emphasize it a bit, but for me it really wasn't hard.
It wasn't that hard mentally.
And I caught myself out there asking that same question.
I was like, like, why not?
Like, I, I'm thankful that it's not, but I'm also aware that.
This would usually be a very difficult situation mentally.
And so I thought a lot about what had prepared me to do well in that situation.
And uh, I mean, of the half of that, a lot of that is like what I need to
write a book on, because it's a lot, the answer answer's very large, you know,
you know, there's a lot to it, but I can, um, get to some of the points here.
Uh, the,
the first one is, is perspective, I would say.
So what allowed me that perspective, and I, and I know I've told this story on Lex
Friedman and Joe Rogan and stuff, but it, it, it was, it's just being intimately
aware of my own of history in general.
So like, I did a lot of reading when I was young about people and wars and
memoirs and stuff, and it, it gave me a, as a young person, even a. A perspective
on my own trials at the time that was, uh, that just made them not seem so big.
And then, uh, in my own family history, you know, they'd all been
through the Armenian genocide.
My grandparents and both had terrible stories, which I had the benefit of
knowing, like I got 'em passed down to me.
But both my grandparents were orphaned and, you know, watched their families
die, killed in, in this horrible scenario.
And, uh, to make a long story short, it was interesting as a young person
growing up, I didn't know 'em because they died before my, I was alive.
But I got, there's a few old grainy videos and of course I knew all my aunts
and uncles that they raised and the old videos of them, it was like such joyful.
They were cooking up a rabbit in France and there are just
so much joy around the table.
And then they raised these 11 kids who were my dad, aunts
and uncles that were just the.
You know, it was a such a bright part of my childhood where those family
reunions and getting together and the laughter and the, and the togetherness,
and I always thought it was, you know, and later in my life it dawned on me
how remarkable it was that these people who went through such trials like that
would pale, you know, anything that we're going through in comparison.
Uh, and they came through with joy that was deep, that they transferred to their
children, that they, like if I didn't grow up with a bunch of, uh, ingrained
animosity for the people that did this to us or anything like that, you know,
they, they, they built a new life.
They fostered family, um, to a very high degree.
And they, and, and then I came along just one generation later of the beneficiary
of their ability to go through that suffering and coming out with a positive.
And coming out, come out as creators, not as victims or whatever.
And I thought that was, uh, I thought I think about that a lot.
You know, that's something that goes with me when I'm in a, on a TV show on alone.
It's like, what can I wind about out here?
That's, you know, and hopefully I, that's a good up to their legacy in the same way.
Well, I'll keep it short too, but my, my dad, oh, don't worry about it.
Oh, yeah.
Well, my, my dad went through a similarly difficult, you know, final 10 years
to his life where he lost his legs.
You know, he had diabetes, he had grew up as a child with diabetes,
he had polio, so he was physically unable to maintain his health.
Uh, but he, he being, you know, the product of his parents and who, he was
an immigrant to the us, all he wanted to do was create a life for his kids
and, you know, just be a family man and provide, and, which he did a great
job of until he was about 50 and, and he got a sore on his foot that
wouldn't heal, you know, as it happens.
And then, uh, he spent four or five years just trying to get
this sore to, he couldn't walk on.
And then it finally healed.
And, uh, we went out, we were splitting firewood, I remember.
And we had the log splitter and he was just like, man, Jordan, it's just so
nice to be outside again and be out.
And he crushed his foot in the log splitter.
Oh.
So, so then they just amputated his leg.
But, you know, once that happens, your health can really
degrade and eventually, and
Travis Bader: mentally too, rather.
Jordan Jonas: And in the meantime, my mom had to go back to work because
she was a stay at home mom, but, uh, somebody needed to provide.
And so she was going back to school to become a nurse.
And dad had to watch as he felt like a failure.
And mom had to pick up the slack.
And we were, you know, I remember him crying when we had to go
to the food bank and all that.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, he just felt like a major failure.
Mm-hmm.
But it was interesting because I got to watch his growth through the years.
And then, uh, for us, he never felt like a failure.
You know, he never seemed like a failure.
We saw how he dealt with it.
And for us, from my perspective, I was constantly.
You know, I was watching how he was dealing with the suffering and
the bad lot he kind of had in life.
And, uh, and what I saw is him evolve from, you know, obviously there were very
hard times early on especially, but then he worked through and he found that his
self-worth wasn't tied up necessarily and what he could do and what he could
produce and all the things that you and I probably tied up in he, uh, but he
could see that, what I could see was, is that his value to me was in like,
he was such an encourager and he was such an example of how to face loss and
trial, but maintain a joyful spirit.
You know, every morning I'd hear him at night in pain, like rolling around
and like, ah, then the morning I'd get up and, Hey Jordan, just be really
happy and wanna talk and wanna read.
Anyway, very positive all the way until he died.
And, uh, and it was.
It was an interesting, you know, another very valuable
lesson in how to face trials.
And, and, and that always stuck with me, those two, lesson three, I guess the
reading I had done of like Gulag Arch Capella stuff, my family history, and
my dad gave me a trifecta of perspective through which to filter my own experience.
That just allowed me to deal with suffering with a little more, I think
more of a level head on my, and a little less focus on my own personal
experience, being able to couch it into a broader, you know, a broader story.
Um, and then, so that would be one that would be like, uh, one leg of the
Travis Bader: Okay.
Yeah.
Jordan Jonas: Of the, uh, of resilience.
Then I guess you would need, you know, another part of it, let me think.
Um,
I gotta organize my own thoughts here.
Um,
well, what we, oh, you know, I guess another obvious one that kinda is, is just
having solid relationships in your life.
So because, um, again, it was something you made very clear when you're at a, in
a, in a, on a loan or something like that.
All my trips to Russia, I spent most of my twenties in Russia,
but of course I was a young dude.
I had, you know, wanted to pursue relationships with this girl or that
girl, or I had friends I wanted to spend time with or this and that.
And, uh, but I, and then I, but I also had my core people who, uh,
my family, my really close friends.
And it was interesting to find that after I would leave to Russia and be
gone for a year, I could come back and boy, those people were still
there, you know, they still, and we still cared about each other.
And now my being gone could bring something back and add
value to their lives too.
And.
And being able to over prac, by practicing that muscle, exercising that muscle, I
was able to, uh, grow in my ability to trust those relationships, to maintain
through, you know, through even time and distance and stuff like that.
And, uh, realized that what I would go through would add
value to them and vice versa.
And, and we can all, you know, we don't have to stick to, you know, be
necessarily, I love that physically close like that our, our love in
some way would bind us together.
And I could trust that.
And because I had strong relationships, particularly like on alone, my
marriage was good, so I didn't have to be out there and stress about that.
And so, uh, so that's good.
I then I think there's like a little bit more practical, um, aspects of it, which
is that throughout my life I had just.
Often been outside of my comfort zone.
You know, we've touched on it a little bit already, but from riding freight
trains to living in a foreign country, not knowing the language, to learning the
language, and then being in a completely varied foreign cultures and having to
adapt and, you know, and often just over my head, but recognizing, uh, that I could
be comfortable living and kind of what I would call the edge of my aptitude.
Like I was always pushing what I was comfortable doing and always, not
even consciously sometimes, but just I would find myself in situations
where like, gosh, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'll figure it out.
Obviously in doing so, you also become really familiar with failure, and
it does because you're constantly screwing up and iterating and learning
and, uh, in doing so, I just think by being on the edge of your abilities
a lot, failing a lot, you become.
More resilient so that when you do get in those uncomfortable
situations, you don't feel flustered.
You're kind of like, oh, totally.
You know what it's like you, you're totally kind of used to it.
And then I always think of the example when I missed the moose on alone.
You know, because later, and I'm on this show and I have, I set up for
the listeners that don't know, and I set up this big opportunity of weeks
of, of calling and strategizing to create some opportunity outta Moon.
And I got one and I missed, and I remember the thing watching, walking away.
And just for one, I was like, well, that was awesome.
Like, what a dinosaur.
And like, darn it, that's, I cannot believe I missed both
those emotions come combined.
But then at the same time, I wasn't that I, I could not get, I could be
unclustered in that moment and instead of being mad about how I screwed up and
my failure, I could immediately just switch into, oh, there goes the moose.
Like how can I. Learn from, you know, what its behavior is,
uh, to make this happen again.
You know, like, because I, it just made me more determined to create
another interaction, and right after I missed it, I was able to just stay
focused, watch it, keep a level head, follow where it went, and come up
with another plan, you know, without, without being despondent over, over
Travis Bader: what, what are they saying?
And so I
Jordan Jonas: think
Travis Bader: there's winners.
There's winners and there's learners,
Jordan Jonas: right?
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
And so I, I think just having a, a lifetime of experience that
had me outside of my comfort zone and kind of screwing up and being
uncomfortable, being okay with that Mm. Help build some of that resilience
that your buddy was asking about.
And, and I, uh, so yeah, I don't know.
It'd be interesting.
It'd be interesting for him to go out, I think.
I think people need to.
I don't think not creating that mental space because it's too hard is an option.
Like, you know, like I think, I think you almost have to, you
almost have to go through it.
I would recommend you go out and if there's things really
nagging him, write it down.
Make sure that you're gonna, like, when you come out, try to be determined to
follow up on, on what those things are, but then write 'em down and, and do your
best to let 'em, let 'em slide because you know, we'll I'll, I'll, I will, I will
work through this issue, but I can't up here right now because, you know, right.
So I, I'm try to practice that muscle of recognizing what you can and what
you can't affect and not being too bothered by what you can't affect.
Putting in its right place.
And when you can, then you need to act on that.
So I think in his situation, writing it down would be helpful.
And then, yeah, I spend more time up there because it is
important to have those resets.
We're so, we are so unusually distracted these days that I don't think just
maintaining that way of life is ideal.
And it's not.
It's the, it's the norm.
Like we're all like that.
You and I both, uh, are constantly bombarded by information and phones and
this and that, and that's okay, but you'd have to create some space that's not,
that that's not scheduled and that's not pressured and that's not distracted.
And so I think your advice
pops.
To come out of the woods and confront what those things are.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: I, I think that's a, uh, a brilliant addition to
the advice that I gave him there, and the points that you bring up.
I, I really like the fail fast, fail hard fail often.
Mm-hmm.
Because then you learn that failure is not fatal.
Success isn't final failure isn't fatal.
And you can get used to that.
And I know people who crave failure, they're high performers, high
achievers, because then they know this is a stepping stone to success.
I know if I'm failing, I'm pushing myself and I'm learning.
So.
Yeah.
Right.
And the other one that, uh, if I'm picking up what you're saying, there
is a third party perspective and Right.
What I mean by that is, um.
Uh, I'll give you a couple examples.
Uh, one, uh, when my wife was in labor with our first child, our daughter mm-hmm.
Uhhuh, and it was 27 hours of labor and yeah, long time.
That's an
Jordan Jonas: intense experience.
Totally.
Travis Bader: Like, and lots of pain and everything else.
And, um.
And she's like, I don't know if I can do this and blah, blah, blah.
You know, all the thoughts that go through through somebody's head, right?
Yeah.
And, um, doing, doing the natural birth thing and I says, well, yep.
How would future you like to look back on you and how you perform now?
How would your grandmother, uh, have dealt with something like this?
'cause she admires your grandmother very much.
Right, right, right.
Um, how do you wanna look back on how you dealt with this in, in the moment today?
And although some people have said that, I'm lucky I didn't get my
head smacked off at that point.
Um, uh, in the moment, in the time that was the right advice for her.
And it was like a light bulb just flicked and all of a sudden it was like
all new energy, all new perspective.
Huh.
It was the same situation.
Mm-hmm.
But she's like, okay, it's one day of my life.
Right.
Or it's one month of my life, or it's one year of my life.
Right.
How do I wanna look back on this one?
Jordan Jonas: Right,
Travis Bader: right.
And and the other one is, um.
Uh, and then, then I kind of got out there, another fellow I, I
haven't heard from him in years, and, uh, super funny guy, uh, had
a problem with alcohol and mm-hmm.
And, uh, went, went in the program.
Mm-hmm.
And I got this text, uh, and a couple weeks ago and, uh, uh,
saying, I don't know why I am the way I am and my, my addiction has,
uh, taken me and getting into it.
And I, and I see just through statement analysis and looking at how, right?
Like, what do you mean my addiction?
I have an addictive personality, but it's not my addiction.
I don't have to own this thing Uhhuh.
But, but, uh, so I'm talking with them and, um, I said, you know,
there's people, I care about you.
There's people want you around.
And he's like, well, you know, like, like who my, um, my, my family,
they can take care of herself.
My daughter, she's off to university.
She can take care of herself.
And I said, well, you don't think mental health and addiction
is not a hereditary thing.
You don't think at some point she might want to be able to look back.
She might be fine right now.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
But when she does experience difficulties, what example are you
giving her as a role model to be able to deal with these difficulties?
If you call it quits?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
If you take, if you take the easy way out, and that's that, uh, perspective
that your father was able to give you.
He was going through difficult time.
Mm-hmm.
But he approached it with such enthusiasm and, uh, humility and humor.
Yeah.
You
Jordan Jonas: can find purpose in that trial, you know, and that his purpose is.
Could be to like, well, I'm gonna confront this addiction and this depression, right?
And like maybe show my daughter how to, should she ever find herself in the
same position, you know, like, right.
Travis Bader: He says, oh, I want to be strong like you, or I want
to be this like somebody else.
I said, well, you don't say I want to have strong muscles
and then never go to the gym.
Mm-hmm.
You need to present yourself with those weights and challenges in order
to develop the muscles you want to.
And the same thing is in life, the same ability to be strong
mentally and emotionally.
It happens because of these challenges that were presented.
And this is what I, I mentioned to him, I said, you're given an
awesome opportunity right now.
You're given something a lot of people don't get the challenge to do and mm-hmm.
How you deal with it now is gonna frame how you are in the future and the
people who love you and look up to you.
Good
Jordan Jonas: ripple for generations.
Who knows.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like yours, right?
Yeah, exactly.
It's, it's crazy.
Yeah.
Crazy.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: Um, so, okay, so you're on a loan.
Uh, you're allowed I think 10 items, is it?
Yeah, 10 items.
Um, what, uh, what did you bring that you thought was the most important and
what would you probably not bring again?
Jordan Jonas: Uh, it's hard to say what's the most important,
because you definitely.
But if you're gonna be out there long term, I don't know, I, the,
the natives I was with, you know, in Siberia would always say, the one
thing you need to survive is an ax.
And that's, you know, somewhat true, I'd say.
'cause with an ax, I felt like if I had an ax, I could have a chance.
It's the very small chance.
But, you
Travis Bader: know,
Jordan Jonas: you could, that my plan A on that show is actually I wanted
to bear, the natives had showed me this cool deadfall for a bear,
and I thought, oh, that'd sweet.
And you know, that's something I could build with just an ax and build a
deadfall and then, uh, smash a bear.
I thought that'd be sweet, but Oh wow.
We weren't allowed to bait traps.
Right,
Travis Bader: right.
Yeah.
Some provinces you can, but that said,
Jordan Jonas: you know, having that ax does give you the ability to procure
food, to build shelter, to find, you know, water in the winter, whatever,
you know, it gives you a lot of options so you can build fire with it.
The one item that I almost felt like I didn't need was the saw.
I took it because I thought it'd be a calorie saver and be nice.
It was very helpful, you know, in building, but you can do
everything with an X that you can do with a saw, basically,
particularly in soft wood forest.
But the, uh, I felt like it was a little superfluous.
Had I known my location, what it would be ahead of time, I
would've swapped it for a gill net.
Travis Bader: But,
Jordan Jonas: uh, I made a gill net, but you know, I could've then had two,
which would've only just been better.
So in hindsight, that's what I'd have done, but.
Zach's was ha I mean, the saw was still handy and stuff, but Uhhuh,
it was a little bit unnecessary.
So I would've pro, I would've been my item swap had I had hindsight.
Yeah, everything else was very useful, uh, that I took, so I wouldn't mm-hmm.
And I kinda liked that show format because having a few items versus
just not having anything you picture, like naked and afraid or something.
It's just not a realistic way to, to survive in the woods.
You know, I, it's like 0% chance, basically,
Travis Bader: yeah,
Jordan Jonas: maybe you're eating coconuts or whatever, but the, uh, to have a little
legitimate way of making, of wilderness living and not just dying slowly.
Uh, there's a, you know, you need a few items.
And so I think that alone kind of hit on that balance pretty well,
which, which mimicked a bit what I had been doing in Siberia and stuff.
So it.
Perfect for that situation,
Travis Bader: I guess.
Yeah.
Well, Nikki, she made it to day 52 before she was medically extracted.
Medically.
Yeah.
And she says she was in shock 'cause she felt like she was
in the best shape of her life.
Things are going great.
Like, what do you mean you're pulling me off?
I put all this time and energy.
She, um, that's terrible.
But she was talking about the medical checks that get done.
Yeah.
Were there any points where your medical checks were looking a little touch and go?
Jordan Jonas: No.
Like, so I actually left the show weighing what I do now,
just my totally normal weight.
Awesome.
But I'll tell you what, I'm a thin dude and I, and, uh, I was worried
that they might be worried that I was thin because, uh, it's a, it's
kind of a long story, but I, but, um.
I thought basically that they thought I was, I thought
they thought I was too thin.
And so I was super stressed about them.
And I also, uh,
you know, I, I gotta be honest with you, I didn't know if the show was rigged or they
wanted somebody to win and this and that.
And so I was like, man, what if they tried to use that as an excuse to pull
me off even just because I'm skinny, but yeah, but I'm this way normally.
So anyway, those were all thoughts I had.
I got, gotta admit, but, um, I was never in any danger, honestly.
When the show ended, I, like I said, I weighed what I do now.
I might've even been slight.
I think I got, I was 1 68 when I weighed myself, and that's
like right, what I usually am.
Mm. So interestingly enough, um, but I had lost 25 pounds because I just
put on a bunch of blubber before I went out, you know, eating smart
Travis Bader: move
Jordan Jonas: olive oil and all that.
So, uh.
So that's why I thought, man, I lost that 25 pounds.
They might be worried about me, but, um, they shouldn't be.
And so I was always stressed when they came on med checks,
but only for that reason.
Um, and then I was, I guess, yeah.
Was that the question?
Sorry, I lost track of the question.
Yeah, well, yeah.
Anyway, it was a, it was a, i, I, I empathized for her being pulled, feeling
like she was in good health because, uh, that could, I, I was stressed.
They would do that to me.
You know, like I, me and I didn't have any, I didn't know how I could prove I
wasn't, I, I remember telling them like, what you, me to do jumping jacks or.
Totally fine.
I swear I'm just skinny.
Travis Bader: Well, you, you, I believe it was what, half a
million that you end up winning.
And you're right.
If I remember reading that, you said your goal was to do the show so that
you can spend more time with your family, your in a financial place.
Yeah.
You can spend more time with your kids to, to help raise 'em, right?
Oh, yeah.
And
Jordan Jonas: oh yeah.
It's been good.
It's been amazing for that.
It's been a huge blessing.
Honestly, the most tangible, positive from the show.
I have met a lot of really cool people, but it has allowed me to shift a bit from
instruction in the trades and stuff like that, and into, uh, take taking people
out in the wilderness and, and that's more of a, it's more of a seasonal job.
And so then I also have a downtime where I can really focus on
spending time with the family.
I have the.
Infrastructure and the living in the right place to be able to take the
kids out in the mountains too and enjoy that with them and really help.
Mm-hmm.
You know, it's really helped, it really helped me kind of, for one,
it was one of the, one of the many experiences of life that that helped me
gimme great clarity on what my priorities are in life.
But it was a very important one in being able to like, kind of bring that to a
place that, man, I I'm, I can only be thankful for where I'm at right now.
And sometimes, yeah, I don't deserve it, but we got, got a good thing going.
Hallelujah.
I say
Travis Bader: don't deserve it.
I don't know that.
I don't well know.
Jordan Jonas: I only, again, it's funny because I always have the background, I
always have it running in the background that it doesn't have to be this way.
Like I, you know, look at my grandparents.
They were as wonderful of people, I'm sure, and doing their best in it.
And their life was very difficult.
And so all I can do is like focus on when that's not the case and in
what aspects that's not the case.
And be really thankful for it.
So I'm honestly like, consciously aware of, I don't take for granted the fact
that I do have my health right now.
Yeah.
That
Travis Bader: can't
Jordan Jonas: go up there.
I can understand there's a lot of people that can't, I, I don't take for granted
the fact that I have a job that I love.
It's like that's not given to everybody.
Mm-hmm.
And none of that stuff comes.
None of it is, that's why I say I don't think it's necessarily
deserved because, uh, it's just, there is a element to which it's not.
But I, but you know, but of course hard work and stuff.
Maximizes your odds, but it just, it's just, I'm, I'm thankful for it.
All I can do is just be thankful.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Isn't it funny the harder that we work, the luckier we get, just funny.
Exactly.
Jordan Jonas: You play a role in making your own luck For sure.
Yeah.
You know,
Travis Bader: when I, when I prepare for a podcast like this, I'll go
through and I'll try and find, uh, background on an individual, but.
I have sort of a rough outline because I really like to see where the conversation
takes us, Uhhuh Uhhuh, and so I've got a DHD and I can go in a whole bunch
of different directions, but I also kind of pick up on little weird things
as we go through too, Uhhuh, and I'm just kind of vocalizing my process at
the moment because if I'm to play an armchair detective and do statement
analysis off of a few things that you were saying when we first started talking.
Yeah.
There was a thread of two themes that you brought up on more than
one occasion, and one was alright, one was sobriety and one was faith.
Oh yeah.
So what, what that about?
Am I on base for?
Uh, oh, yeah.
Jordan Jonas: Maybe it's fine.
Well, yeah, I guess sobriety, uh, personally I have, I don't
have an addictive personality and haven't struggled it.
Like my dad wasn't an alcoholic.
I didn't, I didn't have that struggle, uh, running in the background.
But in my adult life, it's been a huge part of my experience
given the fact that, uh.
You know, particularly with my traveling friends.
Mm. And then on a, on another note in Russia, and particularly amongst the
native populations over there, it's just
Travis Bader: through
Jordan Jonas: the roof and it's people you really care about and love.
And you can see 'em in the woods, you know, as when they're nomadic
and they're out in the forest, they're people you would meet and
think of as like happy people.
Uh, but when they get in the village or all their relatives who aren't
reindeer herders that live in the village, it's just the, it's terrible.
You know, the amount of the, the death by murder, suicide or accident
is 30% amongst those people.
They're like, it's, it's a mind blowing and it's like a lot of our
friends, every time I call back, I'm a little bit nervous about who's gonna
be alive and what's gonna happened.
So there was a lot of, you know, stark.
Not only tragedies, but also just missed opportunities.
And, you know, there's a lot of that that is I've been involved with over my life.
So I guess maybe that, that's why that pops into mind.
Um, mm. And faith has just been a, it's just an awesome, I mean, it's
just a, it's interesting thing, it's a huge part of my life, but
I am fascinated by how it evolved over the course of a person's life.
You know, you, you get a, you get a, you get a certain set of principles and
beliefs passed down to you from your parents, and then those have to become
your own through the course of, you know, trial and tribulation and all that.
Mm-hmm.
And then you end up, you know, on, on this.
Yeah.
So.
Interested to talk about with, with the understanding that I am
just a person on a journey, you know, trying to figure it out.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: Are you a religious fellow?
Is your family religious?
Yeah, I
Jordan Jonas: love, I grew up in a Christian home.
That's why even my, you know, whole family history is that they were,
they weren't actually Armenians, they were, uh, what's called Assyrians.
It's a Christian minority group.
They're the last people that speak Aramaic, you know, that was Oh, cool.
What spoke.
So they were the kind of the indigenous people to the Middle East
before kind of the Arab, the influx.
And, uh, and there's still exists, there's still some of them, very few
left now because of the generations of, of, you know, violence and all that.
So, uh, but yeah, so my family history is Christian and then I grew up a
Christian, and then I, but I remember, you know, your faith gets tied to a
lot of random things when you're, you know, a lot of things when you're young.
I, I think for me.
When I was around the time when I felt that odd flash of purpose and went to
Russia, there was a, uh, uh, I felt like that was kind of a dark time because
I've, I remember I always kind of, I'd always put my face on a bit of a pedestal.
I always took it seriously.
But, um, but I also found that I was in a very dark place and it like,
you know, if I would pray, it just felt like nothing if I, I didn't
have any, uh, it just felt very dark.
And I remember, uh, I was like, of course the, maybe my faith had been tied up
with too much, um, of what I had a hard time believing, like the Earth 6,000.
Sure.
And so you gotta like, untie all that stuff and figure out where
the weed is, where the chaff is.
And I think right early in the process.
20-year-old.
I just felt like I was in a dark place.
But I, uh, and I remember reading this verse that said, for those of you
who are, it was I, for those of you who are in the, who are righteous and
yet in the darkness, just continue.
It was basically like that was the summary of it.
Yeah.
Uh, and I thought it was interesting at the time because like, oh, there are
people who try, try to follow the path of righteousness, but are in the darkness.
And I guess I'll just continue and see what happens.
And I kind of, after that conscious decision to continue and to act and
live out the faith, even if I didn't feel it, I, uh, was when I got that
little call to go to Russia and then, which I was really profound for me at
the time, and I. So there, and I was heading on this trans Liberian railway
out to this Siberian village and I was like, what am I, I don't even have
like faith, like I'm just doing this.
I got like a little spurt of something, but I don't have, and I just remember
on that, on the trans Liberian railway, I just like, Lord, if I
had just one thing I could ask for just someday give me faith, like I'm
gonna live like I, like, I believe because I, I'm gonna guide my life.
I'm mean, I kept it really simple.
Like I didn't care, you know, I was the ultimate, um, summary of my faith
was, you know, love the Lord your God, love your neighbor as yourself.
And I was like, if I can just keep it, that I don't have to worry about
the Earth's age, it might stage, I
Travis Bader: don't have to figure out all that.
So you're basically faking it till you make it.
Is that
Jordan Jonas: what Yeah, exactly.
So I'm just gonna worry about what the meat and bones of the, you know,
the meat is of the, of, of this.
And I've prayed that prayer, going to Russia and it was funny
'cause on the way out, I, uh.
After that first year, and it was, it was a really conscious year of me trying
to act purposefully out of love and, you know, go visit the old lady in her house
and go, you know, dig that well or do it, you know, just hands on and on the way
back on the train, I had forgotten about that prayer, but I, I remembered it on my
train ride back and I thought, oh my gosh.
It, that was, that prayer really answered like, unbelievable.
And it was like, oh, kind blew me away.
I was like, oh, I actually do have faith now.
I don't know how that happened over the course of the last year, but, but, you
know, and then over the, over my whole life it's just evolved and, and changed.
But it's a, a journey I am definitely on and I appreciate, like, I
really like the idea of, you know, we all have these things based
on everyone's background, but.
Things that we struggle with, but rather than destroy and tear it all down, I'm
just, I think we need to like redeem and like, you know, take this down, that brick
down, repair it with this one and that one rather than bull the whole thing.
And so I feel like a bit that, that's my, you know, my path
of also is a bit like that.
And I, I most relate to it in the idea of the struggle.
You know, like, uh, there's that idea that the word Israel means like to struggle
with God or whatever, to wrestle with God.
And I, and that's funny because if you can, you can throw it all out.
And I totally understand people that do that for whatever reason, like,
ah, this is all BS and throw it out.
Sure.
And I have a lot of people that I love that have done that, but then
there, but if you take it seriously and wrestle with it and like, wait,
what does it actually, what if I try to take seriously love your enemies?
Like, what does that mean?
You know?
And then.
That's a challenge.
And in some ways it's actually impossible.
Like the call in general to love others is impossible.
And it's, and, and when you live out with these people and you invest so
much in them and then they drink too much and die, and that's like, it,
it, it gets you, it really grinds on you at like the vanity of it all.
But to have that, to choose to believe and have that orientation in the
world, I think is like, I, I, I think I find it so valuable in my life.
I'm like a huge champion of that, even though I understand, I understand
why there's a lot of people whose faith is tied up with like this,
that unnecessary sense of guilt all the time or, or this or that.
So I understand the complexities of it, but if I can boil it to down to
what is good and what is, what is like, what is it that we all all agree
with in some, on some deep level.
This, like the pedestal that our culture has put the idea of
love on is not, not for nothing.
It didn't come outta nowhere.
That's not a, uh, it's not a survival ethic.
It's not as far as like, it's not survival of the fittest.
It's something a little bit different than that.
And so, um, I wanna like cherish that and there's that baby in the bathwater
that may be, that was my faith and there's a baby in the bathwater that
I think in that Christian message that I ascribed to, that I think
is really worth like, fleshing out.
And that's kind of my life journey of faith is fleshing that out, I guess.
Travis Bader: Well that, and that provides purpose and that purpose drives meaning
and joy comes from all of that and
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.
Absolutely.
And then you do it in community with others who are trying
to take that path seriously.
You know what I mean?
And it's, it's a. So I think that's really neat.
I think it's neat to be on a, a purposeful journey towards a ideal,
towards a goal like that with others and progressive work that out in your life and
Travis Bader: yeah.
Progressive realization of a worthy ideal as Earl Nightingale would say.
Right?
Yeah.
What, okay, so you said it's almost impossible, I think you said
almost, I think you had that almost qualifier in there to, to, uh, love
thy enemy to uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Forgive those who have wronged you.
Have you uhhuh, have you squared yourself of that or is that, uh, 'cause I find
that one, I'm like, I don't, I can't wrap my head around like, how do you, how
do you love someone who's done so much wrong and continues to actively go outta
their way to try and, and like Yeah,
Jordan Jonas: no, I do.
I I do think that that's where the, the struggle comes in.
But I'll tell you what is easy to do.
It's easy to hate 'em.
Mm-hmm.
You know what I mean?
And so I think it's incredibly valuable to have a. You know, to have that, to push
back against your natural, your natural tendencies, because there's no doubt in,
in history and your own life personally.
It's like this, you're always looking out for your best interests, you know?
Sure.
I just, I just think having that, that, to push against that, that's why I
don't take it particularly dogmatically.
It's not like, it's not like a law that you must fulfill.
It's like a, it's a call towards wrestling with this as
being your goal in your ideal.
And then, and that's good
Travis Bader: point.
Jordan Jonas: Honestly, you're gonna fall short.
And I guess that's another interesting thing about that Christian message in
particular is that it's like you, there's kind of like, oh, well there's grace
for that, but just take it seriously and, and try, you know, in a way.
And, uh, I think it just makes you, uh.
Yeah, I think I, I think, I think we take for granted how important it's that
there are so many of us in our culture that have that, even if we don't even,
or even if we're not even conscious of where it came from, we have that operating
system running in the background.
Like just even the, you think of like the message of Jesus to have, uh, to love
the weak and blessed are the poor and this and that, uh, that wasn't the norm,
you know, as, as the Roman historians wrote, like the strong do what they
will and the weak suffer, but they must, and that was the way the world always
was until, oddly enough, this other.
Worldview came into the world and somehow gained enough traction that
now its tenants just run in our, the background of our consciousness, even
though we don't even some, you know, my may or may not subscribe to where they
came from, but I could, I feel like it's one of those things that if we're
not grateful for it, we could lose it.
Because I don't think it's a given in, I don't think it's a given
in the world, in world history.
It's an anomaly of, you know, either consider it supernatural
or an anomaly of history.
It's amazing that it happened, you know, like, because it's
not a given, and so we should.
Travis Bader: Well respect
Jordan Jonas: to that.
Travis Bader: I, I think it's a, a universal truth.
And I think if you look at all these different religions, they all mm-hmm.
Will have their points that can tend to boil down to these, and
I'm gonna do air brackets, sort of universal truths or Right.
Or an operating system for how things kind of should proceed and
people will call it by different names and they'll have different,
uh, uh, ways to try and to go there.
But it's hidden in, so far as it goes against human survival nature of mm-hmm.
I mean, for me, I gotta make sure mine, me and mine are, are taken care of.
Mm-hmm.
I, I mentioned this to a friend of mine.
She was over and her daughter was there.
And I says, you know, at the core.
Everybody's for themselves.
Uhhuh.
It's just some people that line is really close to their day to day.
And some people it's pushed further.
And she's like, I don't believe that.
I said, okay, so someone throws a match in this house right
now and it's burning down.
And I didn't even have to finish my statement.
She says, oh, I'm grabbing Adelaide first, her daughter.
Right.
Well, that, that's how we're designed.
We're designed intuitively to, uh Right.
To protect ourselves in those that we love.
So
Jordan Jonas: that, and we're Desi Yeah, we're, but it, you know, we're also
really designed intuitively to be tribal.
It's, you know, to be like, that's like a deep part of who we're
to like our ingroup outgroup.
And it's interesting to have, um, something else going on in your ethical
framework that pushes you beyond that because no, my, my boundary of who is the
other and who is on my side isn't just.
Who's in my family or who's in my group, or even who's in my faith
scribe, or who's in my country.
It, you know, it kind of pushes that beyond our na where it naturally sits.
Mm. And that's not to say that there's, I mean, obviously again, it kind of
goes back to loving your enemies.
Well, the fact is, is you're still gonna prefer your family, and it's
kind of impossible to love your enemy.
Travis Bader: Mm.
Jordan Jonas: When it's truly, you know, truly, you know, when there's truly evil
Travis Bader: violence
Jordan Jonas: and all right.
But, but the, the like operating system that has that to counter our natural
selves is incredibly valuable, I think.
And I think it's taken for granted.
I don't think I would, I would back maybe against what you're
saying, I don't actually think it's necessarily a universal thing.
It wasn't even,
you know, it's not even really the case historically again.
Sim simplistically, the ro, the Roman like ethic was much different.
It was like you could mm-hmm.
If you had power over that person because they were not a Roman citizen or a slave.
You do whatever you wanted with them and, and that was the way of the
world forever, honestly, until Britain decided to try to end slavery, it was
the most normal thing in the world.
It was Right.
Uh, because we're stronger and it's our team and whatever.
But there was something in the world that decided that, and that honestly it was to,
I would, in my context, obviously there's a lot of, in my context, like as far as
I'm in the west here, but it Christian.
Them state of being in the world.
And I just think that that's interesting and we should under, you know, at least
recognize it before we throw it all out.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Do you know who Roger Banister is?
No.
Should I, uh, I don't know, maybe, uh,
you're kinda like Roger Banister in a way.
Jordan Jonas: Oh, interesting.
Travis Bader: So what?
My
Jordan Jonas: phone dies.
I'm gonna try to go get a charger before it does, but
Travis Bader: Okay.
Okay.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.
I'm heading there to tell you what, who's Roger Banister?
Travis Bader: So, Roger Banister back in 1954, he ran a mile in under
four minutes, Uhhuh prior to 1954.
They thought that was impossible.
No man can run a mile in under four minutes.
Uh
Jordan Jonas: huh.
Travis Bader: A month and a half later, John Landy goes out there and he runs
a mile under four minutes, and the next year there's, uh, three more people go
out and run a mile under four minutes.
Year after that, 10 more people and now thousands do it, and high
school students will go out and run a mile under four minutes.
But what changed was the people's perception of what is actually possible.
So Uhhuh, if you look at alone season six, there were six seasons of alone
where their contestants competed and nobody had gotten any big game.
Uhhuh, you, you were the first person to go out there, and you
got a moose uhhuh unsuccessful.
First time successful.
Second time you got a moose, lots of meat.
Next season, somebody got a big game season.
After that, someone got a big game and it's, it's happened
a number of times afterwards, Uhhuh, but through your example.
It's sort of become the norm that people can expect certain
things out of themselves.
And the way that you're talking about living your life and through your example
and what you're doing with your kids and how you've learned from others and
what you're doing through social media, you are showing other people a path of
resiliency in the outdoors and in life.
I would say that is akin to how Roger Banister showed people,
Hey, this is actually possible.
Jordan Jonas: Well, that's a, that's, that's a great compliment.
Travis Bader: Well,
Jordan Jonas: I be the case to some degree.
That be good.
Travis Bader: But, well, I, I think the takeaway for me is, is that, um, when
you put your head towards something.
Um, really just 'cause it's never been done before doesn't
mean it can't be done and Right.
Well, that was, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
No, go ahead.
Yeah.
And how am I comporting myself today in the moment that's gonna serve as
an example for myself, my family, for others at a later date and mm-hmm.
That's some of the message that I'm hearing when, when you're talking.
Jordan Jonas: Good, good.
That, that's, I like how you put that, but yeah, that's a great, it's
kind of a great, um, thing to have running in the background of your mind.
Just, you know, like, what are you putting into the world and is that what
you wanna be putting into the world?
Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.
Travis Bader: Um.
Is there anything I, I mean man, there's a whole ton more we can
talk about, but I realize you have a battery issue that might be, uh,
Jordan Jonas: concerning.
Oh, you know, I got plugged in, so I'd probably have more time.
Yeah,
Travis Bader: okay.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah, it's out charging my, now I'm ahead of the game.
Travis Bader: Beautiful.
And uh, you know, I was gonna drive down to your location there
and, uh, and we'll, we're gonna do this in person, but I was Yeah.
Ju juggling my other commitments.
So what we have to do, and I'm like, I either put this off for a long time
or we at least get the introduction and get the ball rolling and have
this conversation here and maybe are able to continue the conversation out
in your neck of the woods or my neck of the woods, uh, in this future.
Yeah, absolutely.
The
Jordan Jonas: connection
Travis Bader: has
Jordan Jonas: been
Travis Bader: made in, uh, the connection is made.
Yeah.
Uh, you ever make your way out to, uh, a bc
Jordan Jonas: Um, not often.
I don't find myself in BC often though.
What an awesome place.
Yeah.
I mean, it's not, not true.
Not for lack of appreciating it.
Travis Bader: Yeah, it's a pretty interesting place.
Tons of biodiversity.
Awesome for hunting.
Beautiful.
Oh yeah.
Rugged wilderness.
Jordan Jonas: Boy, you fly over those mountains.
Uh oh.
Yeah.
You spend a lot of time up there in dc running around, I'm sure.
Travis Bader: Um, I, I have so many other questions that I've looked through here.
Minimalism gear, philosophy, being present, finding meaning,
faith, fear in the unknown.
Talk about the more about the reindeer herders and, but I think the biggest
one that I had a mark behind here was the psychology of isolation.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, um, uh, you know, you touched on, you touched on a lot of the points
that I was, uh, hoping to uncover through, through the conversation.
Uhhuh, uh, there's a couple things here.
Like was there anything that you discovered in the isolation
that you're still processing?
Jordan Jonas: Um.
No, not particularly on a loan.
Again, that was interesting.
Uh, I did find that,
uh, I know that alone's been a, you know, it's a life changing
experience for a lot of people.
For me, it felt very similar to Russia.
And so it, it kind of felt, so a lot of times when I'm looking
for those, the things that I, uh,
went to or had to work through, uh, I think most of that work was done on
in those, you know, 10 years that I was going back and forth to Russia as
opposed to once by the time I got on a loan, a lot of those lessons that
actually already learned, which was such a big advantage out there, you know?
Yeah.
And so, uh,
but no, I, what I'm working through, um, is really, is applying some
of the lessons that I already now know, you know, like I, and I think
it would mostly be in relation to.
If I try to wear, think about where maybe I'm, it's hard to say, but where
I'm kind of falling short of what I know I would think about if I was alone.
Sure.
Been there a bunch.
Sure.
It's, it's, um, poor example.
I know every time that I've spent, well, since I've had kids that I spend
a long time out in the woods, uh, I think, ah, you know, when I get back
I'm gonna like, make a point to take the kids out on dates, you know, each
of them I should take out once a week, you know, once a month or whatever it
is, and just be consistent about, about giving them some personal time like that.
And though I've.
Had clarity on my priorities enough to know, to set up my life in such a way
that I have a good amount of time with my family and kids I have continued to fail
doing.
Yeah.
The plan setups like that.
So that's a, that's something,
Travis Bader: yeah.
That can be tough.
It can be tough to have this event that you're planning towards and doing, but
Jordan Jonas: yeah,
Travis Bader: to be able to recognize in the moment when it's actually happening,
I think is a very powerful tool as well.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.
Being present.
And that's a struggle, right?
Isn't it Now?
Like even, you know, we can often be distracted amongst our
loved ones and not give them the attention we want or they deserve.
Travis Bader: Well, what is the notoriety that you've received after being on alone?
You're mentioning, you're on Lex Friedman.
You're on Joe Rogan, like the.
But those aren't insignificant podcasts.
You had a lot of eyes on you.
Mm-hmm.
And you've, you've got a level of fame or infamy from mm-hmm.
From what you've done.
How's that been like to deal with?
Jordan Jonas: Well, it's, honestly, it's a, I sometimes a joke with
some of my buddies, uh, but it's, it's at a, it's not too crazy.
It was interesting hanging out with Joe Rogan because he is at a level
of fame that really alters your life.
You know, like, it, it's difficult.
He had to, that was, and that was still when he was in la, but he had
to go to this unmarked building and he has all these bodyguard type guys
around and, you know, it just, uh.
You know, if he's, the minute he steps out of his building and walks down the
street, it's, his experience of life is gonna be greatly altered by his fame.
Travis Bader: Mm-hmm.
Mine
Jordan Jonas: is actually not like,
believe it or not,
but it, but it's kind of funny because for one, it's kind of
a fun thing to get known for.
You know, it was a fun show, a good show, and, uh, so the people that
are interested in that, it usually just leads to a random conversation.
That's a fun conversation with some, you know, some stranger That's
probably a pretty cool person.
It's like, oh, that's, that provides those opportunities here
and there to just have a random fun conversation while you're out.
And honestly, it's kind of a great level of, of if you call it
fame or whatever, but it's, uh, leads to some fun conversations,
A lot of really cool connections, but it's not life altering in.
You know, a certain level of fame would be, I guess.
Mm-hmm.
Did you get
Travis Bader: people reaching out and hating on you because
you killed an animal like you?
Well, less
Jordan Jonas: than I expected.
I'll be honest.
I thought that was gonna be, I was like, oh, that's gonna be funny getting
known, especially acts in this Wolverine that I don't know if most people
probably think they're endangered.
I just,
I was like, oh man.
Uh, I was expecting more hate than I got.
And initially when it first came out, I remember there were a few, but it's been
surprisingly little and I, uh, maybe there's, you know, people get all fired up
on the internet, but if you're thoughtful about something, and I genuinely am
thoughtful about, uh, my, you know, ethics and hunting and things like that, I think
there's more room for that than we think.
It's not like, it's not just like, dude, that shoots everything that moves against.
Hardcore vegan and you know, there's a whole world of people out there that are
open to reason, even if they disagree, potentially with, you know, somebody
might choose a path of vegetarianism even though they hear my best.
Reasoning as to why I feel like ethical hunting is a thing, but, uh,
Travis Bader: sure.
Jordan Jonas: But, uh, uh, but I don't think there's as much antagonism there
as you get the impression sometimes, which has been my experience.
Like I said, I expected to have more hate, I guess you'd say,
and I just didn't get that much.
I was like, oh, that's interesting.
It's positive overall, like pretty much pretty positive.
And I had to learn a little bit early on because you'll get an occasional
loud idiot saying something and then I'll just, and I'll find, you
know, as it does, it just grates in your mind like, why is that?
You know, you have to learn to ignore that.
And so that was just a bit of a learning process.
But I haven't had, I mean, it's not a ton.
It's not like a, yeah,
Travis Bader: I think
Jordan Jonas: not as much as I thought.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
My, my experience has been interesting.
I think, um, you know, a lot of urban type people, uh mm-hmm.
Are actually intrigued about the idea of self-sufficiency and uh mm-hmm.
Being able to forage and get their own food and hunting
and the idea behind it and.
I, I think it's a very different sort of, um, mentality now.
Maybe it's a post covid thing.
Like I was, yeah, I was invited out for a dinner friend of mine, and,
uh, she says, oh, come on over.
We got some other friends and a couple are getting into hunting.
One of them's, uh, transgendered works for Greenpeace.
I'm like, A whole lot of sex.
This person's getting into hunting.
Like, well, I, I thought there's a stereotype to working for
Greenpeace, and they're, they're getting into hunting, right?
And so it was, um, it was really, uh.
Uh, it's, it's been really eyeopening for me seeing the level of, uh, um, interest
that people have for shows like alone.
Mm-hmm.
I, I think there's a connection to our natural environment
that people intuitively know is missing from their lives and Yeah.
Yeah,
Jordan Jonas: you're right on that.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: They're looking for ways to be able to fill that.
And for me, I see hunting as one of the ultimate ways to fulfill it, because
pulling the trigger on an animal if you're successful enough to find one and
get on target or using a bow or whatever it might be, is a fraction of a second.
Mm-hmm.
But, but the time that you spend scouting, the time you spend reading
and learning, the time you spend just being present in the woods and listening
to the critters chirp and the birds and the patterns and the cycles of the
day, all of that encompasses a much deeper connection that I think, and
Jordan Jonas: I think when you see someone that's really anti, and I,
and that's why I can't get that mad because I just recognize that they
don't actually, they're usually not.
Actually aware of what they're arguing with, you know, like, right.
'cause most people, like, you know, like yourself, like you're articulating
when you're out in the woods, there's like a deep sense of understanding of
the interdependence of all the, of us with nature and with the whole system.
And you see, you know, this herd of elk.
It's not like you're just, oh, I wanna kill.
It's like you actually want, like you, you deeply, you deeply respect
and like appreciate those animals.
Mm-hmm.
But at the same time, you are gonna harvest one, you're kill
one, you know, and eat it.
But it's like, but it's a, uh,
but at the same time, you're gonna like work towards creating, you know,
the best situation where that, that species, those animals can thrive.
You know, as the North American conservation model has done a pretty
good job of doing, which is something I. That I'm pretty impressed by
having lived overseas where, uh, you know, people usually just shoot
what they see because Sure, sure.
For a myriad of reasons from, you know, not having the same, uh, wealth that we
do to just not having the same societal trust levels that we have the luxury of
living in and all that kind of stuff.
The, uh, but ours conservation model, it's amazing.
I'm always like, that's so cool.
We live right near town and there's deer all over the place and you
can see elk and people aren't just shooting them all the time.
It's mm-hmm.
Uh, that's great.
There's no, you know what I, where I think people get it wrong is people
think that we can exist and we can separate ourselves from, from nature.
And the wild.
And the wild can exist over there.
And we can exist over here, but we're, and then, and you see it when you
live close like I do to wild places.
It's like even if you wanted humans to not affect nature, they do.
And even if you personally are gonna try not to eat a particular
type of animal, animals are being killed in the process of making your
food and the process of shipping it here and there and refrigerating,
there's like habitat loss involved.
There's just a lot of factors where we live pushes the animals into less
ideal wintering grounds and mm-hmm.
Where accidentally introduced invasive species.
And it just like, these are very complicated situations.
So rather than acting like we can't, cannot be a part of them, we need to.
Cognize that we're, and do it thoughtfully and well, you know, be the well
Travis Bader: said.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah.
So
Travis Bader: well
Jordan Jonas: said.
And I think people are in general open to that message when, when they have an
open mind at all and are discussing it.
But, and a lot of times I don't think people even rec, you know,
there's just a lot of that that people haven't thought about.
You know, when you don't live in a, in a world that is connected in nature,
because it's easy, easy in an urban environment to totally feel like we're
not dependent on wild places and such.
Travis Bader: Well, is there anything that we haven't talked about
that we should be talking about?
Jordan Jonas: Oh boy.
Oh my man, that was a fun conversation.
Honestly.
I, uh, don't always talk about the faith and things like
that, so that's kind of fun.
But the, uh, uh.
I, I dunno, Travis
Travis Bader: probably there probably is, probably is Is there anything that
you wanna leave the listeners with?
Jordan Jonas: Oh, I don't know.
I guess, yeah, appreciate people listening with an open mind and
yeah, we're typically all on the, you know, typically all on the same team.
If we can figure out some of those and there's gonna be differences.
But I, it's been one of the fun things taking people out on trips in
the mountains is I get people from all over, you know, and from very
different political spectrums and different countries and we all get
out in the woods and you just realize everybody's, we actually all get along.
Through filters, basically through social media.
Yeah.
Seeing each other as another person.
And you can have a conversation around the fire and it enrich everybody
and you see that, oh, that person.
Yeah.
It's been one of the most fun things about running the trips that run is just,
is recognizing that and, uh, especially in times that have been, because I've
been doing this since, you know, around covid before Covid a little bit or,
and, uh, it'll have all been politically divisive to see that that's not necessary.
Travis Bader: Well, um, it looked like your, it says your recording
stopped there for a second, maybe.
Jordan Jonas: Yeah, I got a phone call.
I hit it end, but apparently,
Travis Bader: oh well Jordan, delete
Jordan Jonas: the whole thing.
Travis Bader: That's it.
Done.
Throw it out.
We're done.
You ruined it.
Ah, I tell ya.
Um, Jordan, thank you so much for being on the Silver Hor podcast.
You're welcome back anytime.
Thanks.
I really enjoyed this conversation.
Yeah,
Jordan Jonas: right.
I appreciate it.