1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:02,340 I am. 2 00:00:03,390 --> 00:00:04,920 And this is choosing leadership. 3 00:00:05,340 --> 00:00:09,510 A podcast for high performers, with big dreams at work and life. 4 00:00:10,380 --> 00:00:14,280 This is a podcast for people who know deep inside that there is more. 5 00:00:15,450 --> 00:00:17,369 Have you achieved a great deal of success? 6 00:00:17,759 --> 00:00:21,090 But on the inside, you still feel empty and like an imposter. 7 00:00:22,050 --> 00:00:24,270 Do other people see you as a strong leader? 8 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:28,650 And you wonder why it still feels so lonely and suffocating. 9 00:00:29,339 --> 00:00:34,289 The aim of this podcast is not to provide you more content, but instead shift 10 00:00:34,289 --> 00:00:35,849 the context under which you operate. 11 00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:40,199 I dare to speak to the tremendous power, which you already have 12 00:00:40,319 --> 00:00:41,609 rather than what you believe. 13 00:00:42,029 --> 00:00:43,769 Are your strengths and limitations. 14 00:00:44,459 --> 00:00:47,489 This podcast is called choosing leadership because that is 15 00:00:47,489 --> 00:00:49,529 what leadership is a choice. 16 00:00:49,876 --> 00:00:52,306 And this is the leadership journey, CDs. 17 00:00:52,936 --> 00:00:56,806 I am interviewing leaders with an interesting story to learn how 18 00:00:56,806 --> 00:00:58,036 they got where they are today. 19 00:00:58,576 --> 00:01:01,396 We all have a lot to learn from each other's stories. 20 00:01:01,936 --> 00:01:02,476 Of Viet. 21 00:01:02,506 --> 00:01:04,096 We started very veer now. 22 00:01:04,486 --> 00:01:06,736 And over successes and struggles on the V. 23 00:01:07,216 --> 00:01:09,406 With this series of interviews, my attempt. 24 00:01:09,886 --> 00:01:13,996 Is to give leaders an opportunity to share their stories and for all of us 25 00:01:14,026 --> 00:01:16,126 to learn from their genders sharing 26 00:01:17,126 --> 00:01:21,416 Jason in his own words is a customer focused tech solutions leader. 27 00:01:21,476 --> 00:01:26,456 He has over 25 years of experience building teams to design and deliver 28 00:01:26,456 --> 00:01:28,526 solutions to complex problems. 29 00:01:29,096 --> 00:01:34,136 What I found fascinating from his LinkedIn profile is that he's also other to be 30 00:01:34,136 --> 00:01:36,686 coach the people who work with him. 31 00:01:36,746 --> 00:01:40,586 Describe him as a visionary leader, who is peer listening to. 32 00:01:41,331 --> 00:01:46,251 Smart and yet down toward and brings it infectious enthusiasm 33 00:01:46,251 --> 00:01:48,411 to work in the interview. 34 00:01:48,561 --> 00:01:52,581 Jason shares how playing and coaching team sports like rugby 35 00:01:52,611 --> 00:01:53,961 has shaped his leadership. 36 00:01:54,591 --> 00:01:59,271 He talks about how, as a leader, you do not have to be the most clever person in. 37 00:02:00,426 --> 00:02:04,926 With all the answers and how he sees listening to different perspectives as 38 00:02:04,926 --> 00:02:10,116 a superpower, he told me his leadership is not about him, but about his teams. 39 00:02:10,536 --> 00:02:12,276 And I found that very powerful. 40 00:02:13,276 --> 00:02:13,966 Hi, Jason. 41 00:02:15,136 --> 00:02:15,736 Nice to meet you. 42 00:02:16,276 --> 00:02:16,876 Same here. 43 00:02:16,936 --> 00:02:17,866 Welcome to the show. 44 00:02:18,866 --> 00:02:23,006 Can you start by telling us, telling our audience a little bit about yourself? 45 00:02:24,146 --> 00:02:24,536 Indeed. 46 00:02:24,566 --> 00:02:26,036 So my name is Jason Reese. 47 00:02:26,110 --> 00:02:29,239 I work for the Oracle corporation across a mere role. 48 00:02:29,239 --> 00:02:32,937 So I run one of our technical groups across Mia. 49 00:02:32,994 --> 00:02:35,994 I've seen here today to talk about my personal experiences rather than 50 00:02:35,994 --> 00:02:38,724 necessarily an Oracle employee, but it's my pleasure to be here. 51 00:02:39,624 --> 00:02:40,104 Thank you. 52 00:02:40,284 --> 00:02:41,034 Thank you, Jason. 53 00:02:41,904 --> 00:02:46,013 So with this podcast, I am trying to focus on. 54 00:02:47,228 --> 00:02:51,960 The journey of what brought you where you are today, and also going deeper 55 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,500 into those experiences, which shaped you as a person and as a leader. 56 00:02:55,980 --> 00:03:00,120 So if you look back at your journey, what are one of the one or two of those events, 57 00:03:00,167 --> 00:03:03,471 whether positive or negative, which have shaped you as a person and also as. 58 00:03:03,971 --> 00:03:06,311 Very good question and a big question as well. 59 00:03:06,371 --> 00:03:09,402 I think I started my career as a technical individual. 60 00:03:09,424 --> 00:03:13,731 Very much always as an individual sort of person who enjoyed the technical 61 00:03:13,731 --> 00:03:16,216 aspects of it, of information technology. 62 00:03:16,235 --> 00:03:20,896 But I think I had a natural desire to, to lead to be that as a role model to, 63 00:03:20,897 --> 00:03:22,667 as a team leader, whatever that may be. 64 00:03:22,937 --> 00:03:23,317 And I think. 65 00:03:23,942 --> 00:03:26,672 I would say a lot of reasons I've shaped, been shaped by 66 00:03:26,672 --> 00:03:28,472 that is I've played team sports. 67 00:03:28,536 --> 00:03:32,016 Like my life rugby is the sort of the sport I played the most. 68 00:03:32,466 --> 00:03:35,159 And I think what that shows is it isn't about necessary. 69 00:03:35,206 --> 00:03:37,260 We know the difference between being a manager and a leader. 70 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:41,586 A manager just gets to tell people what to do, whereas a leader is different styles. 71 00:03:41,586 --> 00:03:45,612 So I think if I reflect on my sort of sporting shaping it was always 72 00:03:45,612 --> 00:03:49,112 about leading, even if you weren't necessarily the team captain unit, 73 00:03:49,292 --> 00:03:52,947 what I mean, it's you just took a step forward in what you know was right. 74 00:03:53,672 --> 00:03:55,292 And then hopefully people followed you. 75 00:03:55,356 --> 00:03:58,506 So I think that's how I certainly shaped my early stage of my career. 76 00:03:58,716 --> 00:04:02,565 Not necessarily a desire to be a manager, but just more likely to have 77 00:04:02,625 --> 00:04:06,185 an opinion and have some influence on where my career was going, as well 78 00:04:06,185 --> 00:04:07,385 as the projects I was working with. 79 00:04:08,850 --> 00:04:09,180 Yeah. 80 00:04:09,210 --> 00:04:09,390 Yeah. 81 00:04:09,390 --> 00:04:12,510 It's a, it's interesting that you mentioned how sports 82 00:04:12,690 --> 00:04:13,710 influenced your leadership. 83 00:04:14,130 --> 00:04:15,750 Can you share a little bit more about that? 84 00:04:15,990 --> 00:04:18,822 And this is also curious for me because I read in your LinkedIn 85 00:04:18,822 --> 00:04:20,622 profile that you're also a rugby coach. 86 00:04:20,652 --> 00:04:22,081 So maybe you can share a bit more about that. 87 00:04:22,104 --> 00:04:22,474 Exactly. 88 00:04:22,474 --> 00:04:26,814 And I reflect on this a lot is that as an individual, playing a sport 89 00:04:26,904 --> 00:04:30,144 is really easy in the fact that you only have to look after you. 90 00:04:30,177 --> 00:04:33,837 And as long as your own performance is good enough, then you know, 91 00:04:33,837 --> 00:04:35,127 you're doing the right for the team. 92 00:04:35,667 --> 00:04:39,706 If I now reflect on being a coach, I can assure you it's a totally different 93 00:04:39,706 --> 00:04:44,939 skillset because you have to be able to, especially kids that I coached or 13, 14 94 00:04:44,939 --> 00:04:47,300 year olds as well as 10, 11 year olds. 95 00:04:48,290 --> 00:04:50,390 You can't just tell a child what to do. 96 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:53,420 There's no books telling a child what to do or telling quite 97 00:04:53,420 --> 00:04:54,920 frankly, an employee what to do. 98 00:04:55,370 --> 00:04:57,230 It's actually about framing. 99 00:04:57,230 --> 00:04:57,560 What. 100 00:04:59,035 --> 00:05:02,614 I suppose for them to understand what good looks like, for them to develop. 101 00:05:02,614 --> 00:05:06,919 So as a coach, I spend a lot of my time making sure that, they're 102 00:05:06,919 --> 00:05:08,615 demonstrating what needs to happen. 103 00:05:08,615 --> 00:05:11,835 They're learning the feedback is not a, you've done this wrong. 104 00:05:12,135 --> 00:05:12,945 It's much more. 105 00:05:13,065 --> 00:05:14,155 What did you observe? 106 00:05:14,186 --> 00:05:18,621 What went well, what didn't go well, From a sporting point of view, say 107 00:05:18,621 --> 00:05:20,121 it's much needs to be an individual. 108 00:05:20,301 --> 00:05:21,801 You only have to look after yourself. 109 00:05:22,161 --> 00:05:24,261 It's much harder now to be a coach. 110 00:05:24,501 --> 00:05:28,131 And I take a lot of those learnings quite finely into the professional 111 00:05:28,131 --> 00:05:31,761 world as well around making sure you don't tell people what to do. 112 00:05:32,091 --> 00:05:34,431 You try to sh you try to guide them on the journey. 113 00:05:34,431 --> 00:05:34,731 They're trying. 114 00:05:35,266 --> 00:05:35,626 Yes. 115 00:05:35,656 --> 00:05:39,256 That's very interesting how you take those learnings and then apply it to work. 116 00:05:39,706 --> 00:05:43,606 And one of my coaches likes to say that leadership is a full body contact sport. 117 00:05:44,926 --> 00:05:45,136 Yeah. 118 00:05:45,202 --> 00:05:45,472 Yeah. 119 00:05:45,502 --> 00:05:45,802 Yeah. 120 00:05:45,922 --> 00:05:49,642 And your you and your story exactly reminded me of that quote. 121 00:05:49,737 --> 00:05:53,175 And it's I think it's a wonderful metaphor for everything which we do 122 00:05:53,175 --> 00:05:56,715 in work because we bring our full self rather than just a part of. 123 00:05:57,460 --> 00:05:57,760 Yeah. 124 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,080 And I think the main thing, I, and again, I say this on a Sunday morning, as well as 125 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:07,125 I do throughout the week is time, I think is the one time and sort of priorities. 126 00:06:07,125 --> 00:06:10,575 Are there the one thing that I think we'd all wish we could take step back 127 00:06:10,575 --> 00:06:14,706 from sometimes remove the emotion, remove the pressure, because sometimes 128 00:06:14,736 --> 00:06:19,596 we do make decisions that we think that isn't quite the right thing for the. 129 00:06:20,646 --> 00:06:24,200 But our pressure, the pressure's on to, try to improve in a 130 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,560 sporting performance or try to improve from business performance. 131 00:06:26,607 --> 00:06:27,403 You're absolutely right. 132 00:06:27,426 --> 00:06:30,186 We can sit here cold light of day having a conversation and 133 00:06:30,186 --> 00:06:31,296 we know what's the right thing. 134 00:06:31,596 --> 00:06:35,076 And I think sometimes it's about reminding ourselves, what is the 135 00:06:35,076 --> 00:06:38,965 right thing, rather than always, just driving for a particular outcome. 136 00:06:38,965 --> 00:06:39,998 It's a balance all the time. 137 00:06:41,243 --> 00:06:41,573 Yeah. 138 00:06:41,723 --> 00:06:43,923 So that leads me to my next question. 139 00:06:44,013 --> 00:06:47,629 And this is especially when working with teams and when working with people 140 00:06:47,629 --> 00:06:51,210 in the busy-ness of day-to-day life and the pressure, which you mentioned, 141 00:06:51,264 --> 00:06:55,164 how do you create that space for reflection or finding that balance? 142 00:06:55,208 --> 00:06:55,983 It's hard. 143 00:06:56,053 --> 00:07:00,208 It's hard to do I think you need to as a leader, I try to actually put 144 00:07:00,208 --> 00:07:02,518 time in my diary to take a step back. 145 00:07:02,621 --> 00:07:06,941 It's balancing the operational requirements versus TJ requirements, 146 00:07:07,271 --> 00:07:08,201 strategic requirements. 147 00:07:08,201 --> 00:07:11,870 And I reflect on the last couple of years of of us all working remotely. 148 00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:15,667 It's really difficult to actually take a step back in my view, to 149 00:07:15,667 --> 00:07:17,011 look at strategic stuff on your. 150 00:07:17,026 --> 00:07:20,426 I've got a whiteboard behind me and it's always full of ideas and the like, 151 00:07:20,426 --> 00:07:24,266 but one of the things I do miss from being around people is that ability 152 00:07:24,266 --> 00:07:28,796 to stake your step back with people, take some time out with people and 153 00:07:28,796 --> 00:07:31,946 really reflect on what's working, what isn't working in, looking to improve. 154 00:07:32,516 --> 00:07:36,686 So therefore there's a danger that we are operational all the time, we're 155 00:07:36,686 --> 00:07:40,375 hitting our KPIs, our targets, whatever whatever we measure our business by 156 00:07:40,735 --> 00:07:43,615 and what that means is, and again, especially in the current work. 157 00:07:45,035 --> 00:07:45,965 People get burnt out. 158 00:07:45,995 --> 00:07:49,085 I think people get burnt out by just getting the tasks done. 159 00:07:49,385 --> 00:07:51,005 I think everyone wants to feel relevant. 160 00:07:51,065 --> 00:07:54,845 Everyone wants to feel, they understand why a big company or a 161 00:07:54,845 --> 00:07:58,835 small company quite frankly, is going in the direction is doing going. 162 00:07:58,835 --> 00:08:00,215 So I'll be honest. 163 00:08:00,305 --> 00:08:02,015 I don't think like balance in particularly well. 164 00:08:02,055 --> 00:08:05,305 I know it's an area particular work on for me to make sure that. 165 00:08:05,815 --> 00:08:08,725 We're not just operational and driving the business forward. 166 00:08:09,055 --> 00:08:10,765 We're taking time out to work at all. 167 00:08:10,765 --> 00:08:11,924 Are we doing it efficiently? 168 00:08:11,924 --> 00:08:14,251 But yeah, for me, it's one of the biggest development areas. 169 00:08:14,309 --> 00:08:16,589 I continue to strive to, to improve them. 170 00:08:17,429 --> 00:08:17,759 Yeah. 171 00:08:17,819 --> 00:08:18,059 Yeah. 172 00:08:18,359 --> 00:08:22,409 And I think once you mentioned about blocking time out in your diary, I think, 173 00:08:22,649 --> 00:08:26,159 like not leaving it for chance and not leaving it for when everything gets done. 174 00:08:26,227 --> 00:08:28,687 I always say as well, I did have a attorney course a number 175 00:08:28,687 --> 00:08:30,277 of years ago and a various. 176 00:08:31,177 --> 00:08:34,784 Very interesting professor from one of the the UK universities talks about 177 00:08:34,814 --> 00:08:36,884 sustainable executive performance. 178 00:08:36,974 --> 00:08:42,349 And the idea was you can't hope to to, perform at a high level in your workplace. 179 00:08:42,401 --> 00:08:43,801 If you're not looking after yourself. 180 00:08:44,131 --> 00:08:47,696 So I do tend to find, a bike ride in the summer less likely at the moment with 181 00:08:47,696 --> 00:08:49,826 the weather or run or being in the gym. 182 00:08:50,306 --> 00:08:53,846 I find not only are you helping, you know yourself from a physical point of 183 00:08:53,846 --> 00:08:58,897 view, but I do find on those bike rides, the time to maybe take a step back. 184 00:08:58,928 --> 00:09:00,308 And so I think that's important as well. 185 00:09:00,308 --> 00:09:03,971 We have blocking the time out for The time to think, but a lot of the time we all 186 00:09:03,971 --> 00:09:07,551 know that you block time out and then you find yourself faffing around on the email. 187 00:09:07,551 --> 00:09:11,661 He didn't update sometimes taking yourself physically away from your laptop. 188 00:09:11,693 --> 00:09:14,096 Say out on a, run, a walk, whatever it may be. 189 00:09:14,096 --> 00:09:14,992 I think that's important. 190 00:09:15,052 --> 00:09:16,888 And again, it helps with health as well. 191 00:09:17,908 --> 00:09:20,308 So I can see two common threads here. 192 00:09:20,343 --> 00:09:20,793 One is. 193 00:09:22,158 --> 00:09:25,668 Which is a sporting part, but also on a day-to-day basis that regular 194 00:09:25,668 --> 00:09:29,508 biking or something for doing something physical to allow you to disconnect. 195 00:09:29,508 --> 00:09:32,058 And that gives you a different perspective at everything. 196 00:09:32,118 --> 00:09:32,238 Okay. 197 00:09:32,898 --> 00:09:33,348 Wonderful. 198 00:09:33,408 --> 00:09:33,708 Yeah. 199 00:09:34,328 --> 00:09:36,198 And for me, it's photography. 200 00:09:36,528 --> 00:09:40,608 So I tend to take half an hour, one hour every day, just in my 201 00:09:40,608 --> 00:09:41,898 neighborhood or wherever I am. 202 00:09:41,958 --> 00:09:46,308 I am with my camera and it allows me to distract myself for distance myself. 203 00:09:46,398 --> 00:09:48,828 And then when I am back, I'm totally fresh and totally. 204 00:09:49,638 --> 00:09:53,118 And I knew you could look at problems in a totally different viewpoint, 205 00:09:53,122 --> 00:09:54,442 because you've taken it away. 206 00:09:54,442 --> 00:09:56,722 And again, I think that's a great example of, we can be 207 00:09:56,722 --> 00:09:58,102 very operational all the time. 208 00:09:58,123 --> 00:10:01,274 And sometimes we don't get a chance to say, let's look at it a different 209 00:10:01,274 --> 00:10:04,051 way, and again, I think that's an important point of leadership as 210 00:10:04,051 --> 00:10:06,523 well, is that you don't have to be the cleverest person in the room. 211 00:10:06,793 --> 00:10:08,353 What you need to do is make sure that you have people. 212 00:10:09,118 --> 00:10:12,538 Diverse backgrounds, diverse experiences who are all able to 213 00:10:12,538 --> 00:10:14,038 look at problems in different ways. 214 00:10:14,073 --> 00:10:16,597 And sometimes the problem can be solved in a totally different way. 215 00:10:16,597 --> 00:10:19,237 And I think that's that for me is the superpower. 216 00:10:19,237 --> 00:10:23,330 I wish I would have more which is the ability to just, look at lateral 217 00:10:23,330 --> 00:10:25,372 thinking, I'm a very analytical thinker. 218 00:10:25,372 --> 00:10:27,401 So if the data shows me something I'm going to go with. 219 00:10:27,468 --> 00:10:30,225 I really value people who look at things in a different way. 220 00:10:30,319 --> 00:10:34,639 . . And one of the reasons I'm doing these interviews is to bring out those sites 221 00:10:34,639 --> 00:10:38,610 of leaders, which we don't normally see or get to experience in the work life. 222 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,240 Because either we don't open up about it or because of the hierarchy 223 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,930 or because of our position, people don't feel safe to ask us about it. 224 00:10:45,970 --> 00:10:46,240 Yeah. 225 00:10:46,270 --> 00:10:49,607 So my next question is that tell us something which most people do not know. 226 00:10:50,557 --> 00:10:50,867 Yeah. 227 00:10:50,867 --> 00:10:55,583 I think I will tell you that, but think the interesting thing is, again, what 228 00:10:55,583 --> 00:11:00,353 I've loved about the last couple of years is we've got leaders and we've got, 229 00:11:00,449 --> 00:11:04,792 from my point of view, I've got senior customers, CIO type people who are just 230 00:11:04,792 --> 00:11:07,492 like, anybody else will turn around and say, oh, sorry, my dog's barking. 231 00:11:07,492 --> 00:11:10,142 Or my child's, walked in the room or whatever that is. 232 00:11:10,142 --> 00:11:12,692 And I think that really breaks barriers down because one of 233 00:11:12,692 --> 00:11:14,102 the things I think is really. 234 00:11:14,852 --> 00:11:17,792 And I hope I am is I think you need to be authentic. 235 00:11:17,817 --> 00:11:20,955 There, there are times where you maybe can't show or your emotional, 236 00:11:20,955 --> 00:11:23,685 exactly what you're thinking just simply because you're trying to, you 237 00:11:23,685 --> 00:11:27,285 are trying to lead, but I think if people see you're being authentic and 238 00:11:27,285 --> 00:11:29,775 genuine, I think that sort of that works. 239 00:11:30,195 --> 00:11:33,038 And the thing that people may not know about me is I've got a twin 240 00:11:33,038 --> 00:11:36,657 brother not identical but a twin brother born 20 minutes apart. 241 00:11:36,763 --> 00:11:40,433 First I'd if every here's his podcast, he'll know why I say that. 242 00:11:40,433 --> 00:11:43,017 I'm the older one, but what's interesting is that my brother 243 00:11:43,017 --> 00:11:44,767 and I are totally different. 244 00:11:44,776 --> 00:11:46,156 He doesn't work in the corporate world. 245 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,402 He we're different characters, but Paul, my brother-in-law. 246 00:11:51,317 --> 00:11:53,627 Paul actually now does leadership coaching. 247 00:11:54,077 --> 00:11:57,077 So he does a lot of work with different companies around 248 00:11:57,407 --> 00:11:59,117 leading and improving performance. 249 00:11:59,447 --> 00:12:01,307 And I find that quite interesting cause we're very different 250 00:12:01,307 --> 00:12:05,400 characters, but we both have a natural desire to, and obviously. 251 00:12:06,300 --> 00:12:10,859 But to, again, I think be relevant and make sure that we're whatever we do, we've 252 00:12:10,859 --> 00:12:12,869 got some influence on or whatever it is. 253 00:12:12,869 --> 00:12:13,469 So yeah. 254 00:12:13,829 --> 00:12:16,079 I have a twin brother, which people may not know about. 255 00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:19,379 Some people may think, oh my God, there's two races around in 256 00:12:19,379 --> 00:12:21,539 the world, but yeah, they don't. 257 00:12:21,599 --> 00:12:21,779 Yeah. 258 00:12:21,809 --> 00:12:23,189 There's two of us in this world. 259 00:12:23,219 --> 00:12:23,429 Yeah. 260 00:12:23,939 --> 00:12:24,299 Yeah. 261 00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:24,899 Thank you. 262 00:12:25,289 --> 00:12:26,189 Thank you for sharing that. 263 00:12:26,219 --> 00:12:28,964 And I think what I'm taking away from that is that. 264 00:12:29,944 --> 00:12:34,624 Even when you are so close, like twins growing up in the same family, you can 265 00:12:34,624 --> 00:12:36,604 still become the very different people. 266 00:12:37,294 --> 00:12:37,494 And. 267 00:12:38,479 --> 00:12:40,763 Yeah, but both but both mad about sports. 268 00:12:40,830 --> 00:12:45,253 But again, interesting example, Paul was always more talented naturally, 269 00:12:45,313 --> 00:12:46,603 whereas I was the harder worker. 270 00:12:47,023 --> 00:12:51,403 So how, maybe that's point of our careers as well, but yeah there's 271 00:12:51,433 --> 00:12:55,753 synergies even though there's differences and again, maybe that's another good 272 00:12:55,753 --> 00:12:59,383 metaphor for teams that you don't have to all be on the same person. 273 00:12:59,713 --> 00:13:02,233 You need to actually have different ideas and different 274 00:13:02,233 --> 00:13:02,563 approaches. 275 00:13:03,448 --> 00:13:03,778 Yeah. 276 00:13:03,838 --> 00:13:04,078 Yeah. 277 00:13:04,288 --> 00:13:04,498 Yeah. 278 00:13:04,528 --> 00:13:07,216 And I think on the other side of leadership it's very important 279 00:13:07,216 --> 00:13:11,356 to listen for those ideas and not to pigeonhole people into because 280 00:13:11,536 --> 00:13:14,806 you are, you look similar or you are in a similar background. 281 00:13:14,836 --> 00:13:17,461 So you, so I am going to talk to you in a certain way. 282 00:13:17,971 --> 00:13:22,714 And I reflect on when my first managing job again, in one of the big four. 283 00:13:23,974 --> 00:13:27,841 I've Al I always think this, I remember being told by the HR team, recruiting 284 00:13:27,841 --> 00:13:32,282 people, Jason, you need to not just try to greet people, who are white and in 285 00:13:32,282 --> 00:13:33,792 their mid twenties, the same as you. 286 00:13:33,831 --> 00:13:35,866 You've got to recruit people from different backgrounds male, 287 00:13:35,866 --> 00:13:37,096 female, whatever it may be. 288 00:13:37,486 --> 00:13:40,566 And I, yeah, I'm honest at the time I was like why do I want to do that? 289 00:13:40,776 --> 00:13:43,025 How will I be able to, form a team around people who will 290 00:13:43,025 --> 00:13:43,955 come from different backgrounds? 291 00:13:43,955 --> 00:13:46,454 And I look back at that point in my career, many years later. 292 00:13:46,874 --> 00:13:51,665 And I think how naive was I People from the same background, same thoughts. 293 00:13:52,205 --> 00:13:53,945 We're going to look at things into different ways. 294 00:13:54,245 --> 00:13:55,685 Yeah, no, it's really important. 295 00:13:55,685 --> 00:13:59,620 We have people different thoughts and I don't care where people come from. 296 00:13:59,631 --> 00:14:02,361 I think it's just better that we've got diverse ideas. 297 00:14:02,991 --> 00:14:03,111 Okay. 298 00:14:03,141 --> 00:14:03,351 Yeah. 299 00:14:03,951 --> 00:14:07,221 And if you look back at that span of time, like when did 25 years, 300 00:14:07,671 --> 00:14:09,021 what is it about leadership? 301 00:14:09,051 --> 00:14:12,961 What principle or what believed that you have come to change your view over time? 302 00:14:13,461 --> 00:14:16,371 Most definitely come to a T, let me start this stuff. 303 00:14:16,371 --> 00:14:20,181 I think I am consistent with, and I think that's about. 304 00:14:21,181 --> 00:14:26,711 Being again, genuine and really genuinely being happy to roll my sleeves up and, 305 00:14:26,724 --> 00:14:30,444 do a customer meeting with the team or look at problems and things like that. 306 00:14:30,444 --> 00:14:35,484 So the ability to be, let's say authentic and genuine and have integrity. 307 00:14:35,844 --> 00:14:36,894 That's what I've kept. 308 00:14:36,998 --> 00:14:38,734 Hopefully seen throughout my career. 309 00:14:39,124 --> 00:14:43,335 I think the bit that I've changed is just my outlook on what management 310 00:14:43,335 --> 00:14:44,622 is, I get people all the time. 311 00:14:44,952 --> 00:14:48,163 Talk to me about, becoming a manager or wanting to get in into leadership. 312 00:14:49,153 --> 00:14:51,421 I always say why, just tell me why I'm. 313 00:14:51,421 --> 00:14:53,891 One of the things is when I first started, I probably, there was 314 00:14:53,941 --> 00:14:58,141 maybe something about control or influence or power and things, and 315 00:14:58,141 --> 00:14:59,701 that it's nothing like that now. 316 00:14:59,754 --> 00:15:02,317 It's very much around rather than me being on stage. 317 00:15:03,137 --> 00:15:05,867 I want to be off stage trapping people onto the stage. 318 00:15:05,888 --> 00:15:08,738 Like mostly does I get more to throw it out, seeing people develop 319 00:15:08,738 --> 00:15:10,409 now and making sure their careers. 320 00:15:10,409 --> 00:15:13,109 And I think what that ends up happening is that you've got a very, 321 00:15:13,169 --> 00:15:16,919 you improve your network of people around you because you've done 322 00:15:16,919 --> 00:15:18,602 something for them in their career. 323 00:15:18,602 --> 00:15:21,122 Again, look at the rugby analogy again, if I can have any of my 324 00:15:21,122 --> 00:15:23,496 kids I coach now go on quite funny. 325 00:15:23,496 --> 00:15:25,926 It doesn't matter if played national international level, it's 326 00:15:25,926 --> 00:15:27,276 more that they just play sports. 327 00:15:27,636 --> 00:15:29,106 So I think that influence on people. 328 00:15:29,201 --> 00:15:32,471 For a positive point of view, that's the one thing I've probably changed the 329 00:15:32,471 --> 00:15:34,781 most around why I enjoy the leadership. 330 00:15:34,871 --> 00:15:36,491 So it's not about me genuinely. 331 00:15:36,491 --> 00:15:37,271 It's not about me. 332 00:15:37,631 --> 00:15:41,995 It's about, the teams that that work around me for me, that's the 333 00:15:41,995 --> 00:15:44,965 thing much more important than maybe when I first started as a manager. 334 00:15:45,514 --> 00:15:45,964 Thank you. 335 00:15:45,994 --> 00:15:46,984 Thank you for sharing data. 336 00:15:46,984 --> 00:15:53,355 And I think connecting it back to the experience of coaching rugby because 337 00:15:53,355 --> 00:15:56,355 I have a very similar experience because there was a time when I 338 00:15:56,355 --> 00:15:58,575 was only leading people in at work. 339 00:15:58,965 --> 00:16:01,665 And then I started to lead a social organization and then I 340 00:16:01,665 --> 00:16:03,075 was leading a lot of volunteers. 341 00:16:03,495 --> 00:16:08,115 Now, obviously I cannot tell them, or I cannot come at them because there is no 342 00:16:08,145 --> 00:16:09,975 contract that there is no employment. 343 00:16:10,745 --> 00:16:13,475 So that allowed me to learn a different kind of leadership. 344 00:16:13,505 --> 00:16:15,656 And then I brought it back to work and see that it works. 345 00:16:16,316 --> 00:16:16,736 I think 346 00:16:16,736 --> 00:16:18,926 that's a fantastic example. 347 00:16:18,926 --> 00:16:21,326 And I'm chuckling because I experienced that all the time. 348 00:16:21,326 --> 00:16:26,669 There's you, can't in volunteers, they are volunteers, and people 349 00:16:26,669 --> 00:16:27,839 come from different backgrounds. 350 00:16:27,841 --> 00:16:31,449 Some of the some of the terminology that your viewers may hear, in their. 351 00:16:31,999 --> 00:16:32,929 I am afraid. 352 00:16:33,019 --> 00:16:34,039 I use all the time. 353 00:16:34,549 --> 00:16:37,999 You can imagine in a rugby club in barbershop, we using 354 00:16:37,999 --> 00:16:38,929 some of that terminology. 355 00:16:38,929 --> 00:16:40,609 They will be looking at me and going what? 356 00:16:41,103 --> 00:16:41,973 And I think it's a volunteer. 357 00:16:41,973 --> 00:16:43,923 You've got to it's about inputs. 358 00:16:43,953 --> 00:16:45,933 It's not what you can't tell someone what to do. 359 00:16:46,353 --> 00:16:50,960 And why would you and I think there is a great reflection of that around influence. 360 00:16:51,050 --> 00:16:55,128 And again, if you tell someone because they get a salary, 361 00:16:55,128 --> 00:16:56,748 therefore they fear you need to do. 362 00:16:57,583 --> 00:16:59,533 Then we'll support that because it's. 363 00:17:00,668 --> 00:17:04,628 Th they're not emotionally connected to what we're trying to do. 364 00:17:04,702 --> 00:17:07,102 You're all you're doing is telling someone you need to do this. 365 00:17:07,322 --> 00:17:09,742 They're like, okay, I'm doing that because you're my manager 366 00:17:09,742 --> 00:17:11,212 and I being paid a salary. 367 00:17:11,932 --> 00:17:15,526 I think the, again the holy grail, if you like is to be able to get. 368 00:17:16,616 --> 00:17:18,755 I understand that's important to them. 369 00:17:18,815 --> 00:17:20,675 And then all you're doing is guiding people. 370 00:17:21,005 --> 00:17:25,830 So I, again, I think the volunteer versus paid employee comparison is an 371 00:17:25,830 --> 00:17:27,840 interesting one and it is about influence 372 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:28,500 you're absolutely right. 373 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:28,920 Okay. 374 00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:29,130 Yeah. 375 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:29,430 Yeah. 376 00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:33,780 And I think what sports does automatically is add that element of play and that 377 00:17:33,780 --> 00:17:37,250 connection, which creates a certain amount of energy and involvement with 378 00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:40,565 which I don't see any reason that it cannot be the same at work or. 379 00:17:41,455 --> 00:17:42,385 And I agree. 380 00:17:42,475 --> 00:17:43,614 And I think that's again. 381 00:17:44,584 --> 00:17:47,914 And people excited by a project that's going on a particular 382 00:17:48,184 --> 00:17:51,609 initiative that's going on at work corporate, quite frankly, what the 383 00:17:51,609 --> 00:17:53,388 company is trying to move towards. 384 00:17:53,688 --> 00:17:55,098 If you can tap into that. 385 00:17:55,114 --> 00:17:59,971 That's important, a lot of people that I've interacted with over the years, 386 00:18:00,068 --> 00:18:01,848 their passion is outside of work. 387 00:18:01,910 --> 00:18:04,269 And there is an element of being able to, that they're doing this. 388 00:18:04,999 --> 00:18:06,169 In order to feed the passion. 389 00:18:06,469 --> 00:18:10,459 That's not, there's nothing wrong with that, but you, we, as leaders need to 390 00:18:10,459 --> 00:18:15,289 tap into what that person's passion is, and if we can get it aligned to 391 00:18:15,649 --> 00:18:19,829 our company goals the corporate goals, then you create high performing team. 392 00:18:20,249 --> 00:18:20,999 If you don't. 393 00:18:21,239 --> 00:18:24,329 Then what you've got is got people who are taking a salary during this. 394 00:18:25,044 --> 00:18:27,304 And again, are not as engaged as we would like 395 00:18:27,304 --> 00:18:27,574 them to be. 396 00:18:28,654 --> 00:18:29,014 Yes. 397 00:18:29,044 --> 00:18:29,254 Yes. 398 00:18:29,282 --> 00:18:32,631 I think you're touching on something very critical here, because with most 399 00:18:32,631 --> 00:18:36,674 of my work with leaders, there's a lot of focus on creating that alignment, 400 00:18:36,674 --> 00:18:39,912 which you spoke about between the individual and the team, and then 401 00:18:39,912 --> 00:18:41,352 between the team and the organization. 402 00:18:41,432 --> 00:18:45,212 When everything fits together, it creates a very different level of 403 00:18:45,212 --> 00:18:47,292 engagement, involvement and productivity. 404 00:18:48,222 --> 00:18:48,432 Yeah. 405 00:18:48,782 --> 00:18:49,062 Yeah. 406 00:18:49,692 --> 00:18:50,532 And I think that's important. 407 00:18:50,532 --> 00:18:54,196 I think, as a leader, one of the things I work on clarity of communication 408 00:18:54,196 --> 00:18:55,666 and consistency of communication. 409 00:18:55,666 --> 00:19:01,301 Because again, in a disconnected workforce that we unfortunately all are 410 00:19:01,301 --> 00:19:04,934 at the moment I can have a particular viewpoint and by the time it gets down 411 00:19:04,934 --> 00:19:07,668 to, the individual who's doing the role. 412 00:19:07,678 --> 00:19:11,428 It could it's mistranslated or misunderstood or whatever it is. 413 00:19:11,678 --> 00:19:12,961 Individual just isn't engage. 414 00:19:13,351 --> 00:19:18,765 So that clarity on goal and mission statement, that for me is not an 415 00:19:18,765 --> 00:19:23,185 important thing, clarity of goal, clarity of priorities, and making sure 416 00:19:23,232 --> 00:19:27,865 people understand why it's a priority, how it relates to the company, but how 417 00:19:27,865 --> 00:19:29,425 it relates to them as an individual. 418 00:19:29,425 --> 00:19:32,285 Because again, you can then create the thread between the two. 419 00:19:32,285 --> 00:19:33,818 But it's the hardest part, the role, right? 420 00:19:33,818 --> 00:19:36,518 It's the hardest part of the role to make sure that an individual. 421 00:19:36,615 --> 00:19:39,995 Who you're not talking to, know, yourself necessarily really understands 422 00:19:39,995 --> 00:19:41,465 why we are taking this approach. 423 00:19:41,465 --> 00:19:43,856 And sometimes, they don't maybe see the big picture. 424 00:19:43,862 --> 00:19:48,497 Sometimes they choose not to, or they've got no experience doing that. 425 00:19:48,557 --> 00:19:49,097 And I think that. 426 00:19:49,617 --> 00:19:49,827 Yeah. 427 00:19:49,827 --> 00:19:53,106 The biggest challenge as a leader, I see CEOs, read about 428 00:19:53,106 --> 00:19:54,186 CEOs and things like that. 429 00:19:54,186 --> 00:19:57,766 And you always talk about the best leaders are the ones who actually are able to, 430 00:19:57,790 --> 00:19:59,620 create that fire in the belly of people. 431 00:19:59,664 --> 00:20:01,956 It, again it's something that I think we all strive for. 432 00:20:02,488 --> 00:20:06,418 So I'm very curious with this last thing, which you mentioned, right? 433 00:20:06,538 --> 00:20:07,898 How do you bridge that gap? 434 00:20:07,958 --> 00:20:08,498 Both faces. 435 00:20:08,528 --> 00:20:09,818 How do you listen to the feedback? 436 00:20:09,818 --> 00:20:14,047 If somebody is disconnected and especially more so in the current world, in the 437 00:20:14,047 --> 00:20:17,707 virtual and hybrid world that we live in, how do you bring that visibility? 438 00:20:18,277 --> 00:20:18,307 I 439 00:20:19,747 --> 00:20:22,607 wish you would tell me, but I'll I'll give you some thoughts on it. 440 00:20:23,512 --> 00:20:26,512 I think the first thing is it's about regular communication, 441 00:20:26,512 --> 00:20:28,072 but in different forms. 442 00:20:28,110 --> 00:20:31,306 It's not about having all hands all the time that, you just sat there 443 00:20:31,306 --> 00:20:33,496 telling people what the priorities are and what the performance is. 444 00:20:33,552 --> 00:20:34,182 That doesn't work. 445 00:20:34,183 --> 00:20:35,321 It's about engagement. 446 00:20:35,372 --> 00:20:40,494 Be it emails or slack channels or whatever those medias are as well as, all hands 447 00:20:40,494 --> 00:20:45,117 or we do things I can ask me anything forums where, you know, again you're 448 00:20:45,177 --> 00:20:46,467 in a vulnerable position as a leader. 449 00:20:47,107 --> 00:20:49,519 Ask me anything in that, by that title. 450 00:20:49,789 --> 00:20:52,939 So I think that's the first piece around just regular communication 451 00:20:52,954 --> 00:20:55,784 people feel with what's going on. 452 00:20:56,204 --> 00:20:59,534 I think the other thing is clarity of goals and priorities, as we said before, 453 00:20:59,564 --> 00:21:04,263 and again, making sure people understand, why our priorities are such, but all of 454 00:21:04,263 --> 00:21:08,283 that is fine, but I think it's regular feedback needed and we've recently. 455 00:21:08,333 --> 00:21:12,283 A champions group, the people who we feel are showing the right level 456 00:21:12,283 --> 00:21:16,603 of engagement and quite frankly, are role models in themselves in 457 00:21:16,603 --> 00:21:18,373 order that they are feeding back up. 458 00:21:18,426 --> 00:21:23,095 People talk about skip level reviews with management teams and we'll do that. 459 00:21:23,395 --> 00:21:24,775 But also I think it's really important. 460 00:21:24,775 --> 00:21:24,865 Yes. 461 00:21:25,450 --> 00:21:29,740 Just the managers you're talking to, it's the individuals who they will be 462 00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:33,212 the future managers, but also are the people who understand what it's like. 463 00:21:33,235 --> 00:21:33,835 Like there as well. 464 00:21:33,835 --> 00:21:39,265 So it's feedback, it's clarity of communication and it's consistency. 465 00:21:39,355 --> 00:21:41,935 I think that is, that's the main thing. 466 00:21:41,965 --> 00:21:46,201 Just again, going back to my point about, being authentic, generally listening some 467 00:21:46,201 --> 00:21:48,391 things we can, I can change some things. 468 00:21:48,391 --> 00:21:49,951 I can't, some things people want. 469 00:21:51,091 --> 00:21:53,071 But they're worried about or want to do things differently. 470 00:21:53,101 --> 00:21:54,781 And it's just the nature that we can't change. 471 00:21:54,781 --> 00:21:58,021 That other things you can actually do quite easily. 472 00:21:58,111 --> 00:22:00,961 And that may be the Mo one of the most important things 473 00:22:00,961 --> 00:22:01,801 that's going to motivate in. 474 00:22:02,981 --> 00:22:03,911 Yeah, thank you. 475 00:22:04,211 --> 00:22:04,391 Yeah. 476 00:22:04,451 --> 00:22:06,641 And multiple channels of communication. 477 00:22:06,641 --> 00:22:10,631 Like I think as you share are critical, especially in this day and age when 478 00:22:10,631 --> 00:22:12,341 it's very easy to get disconnected. 479 00:22:12,410 --> 00:22:15,230 And another thing which you mentioned, and maybe I want to just 480 00:22:15,650 --> 00:22:20,270 explore that is, is the role of listening with my work with leaders. 481 00:22:20,270 --> 00:22:21,080 What I am realizing. 482 00:22:22,050 --> 00:22:24,300 I think it's not about the quantity of communication. 483 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:26,040 It's about the quality of communication. 484 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,720 And then the listening basically plays a huge part. 485 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,783 And I wanted to bring it back to sports because I found that such a wonderful 486 00:22:32,813 --> 00:22:37,583 analogy is that when we are dealing with physical bodies, when we say leadership 487 00:22:37,583 --> 00:22:41,453 is a full body contact sport, and then to not just listen to the words 488 00:22:41,483 --> 00:22:45,353 which people are saying, but also to the body language and to the tone of 489 00:22:45,353 --> 00:22:47,783 voice, especially in this virtual world. 490 00:22:48,203 --> 00:22:48,803 And then. 491 00:22:49,648 --> 00:22:54,758 Our leaders training our managers to know how to do so I coach many people and I 492 00:22:54,758 --> 00:22:56,468 can remember this happened last week. 493 00:22:56,538 --> 00:22:59,598 Like very clearly I was talking to my own. 494 00:23:00,498 --> 00:23:03,648 And he's said something and it reminded me of something from my 495 00:23:03,648 --> 00:23:05,628 past, and I had a lump in my throat. 496 00:23:05,628 --> 00:23:09,978 So I, I did a little bit of chuckle and he stopped me there again. 497 00:23:09,978 --> 00:23:10,548 And he stopped. 498 00:23:10,578 --> 00:23:11,508 Don't answer my question. 499 00:23:11,508 --> 00:23:12,048 What was that? 500 00:23:12,108 --> 00:23:12,838 Tell me that. 501 00:23:12,858 --> 00:23:14,148 And that allowed me. 502 00:23:14,192 --> 00:23:17,866 To first of all, understand what real listening is because 503 00:23:17,866 --> 00:23:19,066 he was listening for that. 504 00:23:19,736 --> 00:23:24,396 And then ever since I have had a post-it note on my laptop to remind me of listen. 505 00:23:24,706 --> 00:23:29,356 That incident showed me that there is always the next level to improve and how 506 00:23:29,356 --> 00:23:33,356 important to listen to those signals, which otherwise we might just ignore. 507 00:23:33,426 --> 00:23:33,886 I agree. 508 00:23:34,386 --> 00:23:37,326 I absolutely agree with the fact of being big. 509 00:23:37,326 --> 00:23:38,346 You gotta be present. 510 00:23:38,548 --> 00:23:42,286 Again, one of the things is a work on for me is I'm always driving forward. 511 00:23:42,436 --> 00:23:43,846 So the danger of that. 512 00:23:44,926 --> 00:23:46,096 Am I listening all the time. 513 00:23:46,126 --> 00:23:48,871 Maybe not because I'm, I've already probably thought, 514 00:23:48,871 --> 00:23:49,965 this is what we need to do. 515 00:23:50,445 --> 00:23:51,525 It's worked in the past. 516 00:23:51,525 --> 00:23:53,945 Why would we not, let's get on with it almost. 517 00:23:54,305 --> 00:23:56,615 Let's get on with it and we'll then work out afterwards when 518 00:23:56,615 --> 00:23:57,515 it was the right thing to do. 519 00:23:57,595 --> 00:23:58,505 And we all know that. 520 00:23:59,150 --> 00:24:01,585 You know that is not right, but we're driven forward. 521 00:24:01,585 --> 00:24:05,626 And I think in your example, there, again you're thinking about an 522 00:24:05,626 --> 00:24:09,076 emotional connection, therefore, that lump in your throat is all 523 00:24:09,076 --> 00:24:10,775 about, you cared at that point. 524 00:24:10,835 --> 00:24:16,269 And I think being present, I think for me being present for my own family on 525 00:24:16,269 --> 00:24:20,675 a Sunday morning and rugby training and actually, at work, just being able to, 526 00:24:20,885 --> 00:24:23,255 again, take that moment to say right. 527 00:24:24,090 --> 00:24:26,280 Generally less genuinely listen. 528 00:24:27,735 --> 00:24:30,815 Your concerns to your thoughts, to your feedback. 529 00:24:31,145 --> 00:24:31,955 And I'm doing that. 530 00:24:32,195 --> 00:24:36,275 Going back to that point about stepping away for that moment, I am 531 00:24:36,275 --> 00:24:38,072 present a hundred percent for you. 532 00:24:38,118 --> 00:24:43,461 Again, it's easy to say, but in the multiple things we have going on, 533 00:24:43,492 --> 00:24:46,612 I'm talking to you, my WhatsApp's pinging, my email's pinging, 534 00:24:46,642 --> 00:24:47,962 sorry for your lessons on that. 535 00:24:48,202 --> 00:24:50,772 But that's because it's, we're always connected and. 536 00:24:50,775 --> 00:24:54,147 In this world, we live in on zoom and other medias. 537 00:24:54,197 --> 00:24:54,810 It's difficult. 538 00:24:54,936 --> 00:24:58,716 But it's something that we get, we should all remind ourselves is really important. 539 00:24:58,798 --> 00:25:01,786 And I say in sport, you're here now in professional sport. 540 00:25:01,786 --> 00:25:04,186 It's not about just going through drills and doing the same thing. 541 00:25:04,426 --> 00:25:06,316 It's actually just making sure. 542 00:25:07,101 --> 00:25:11,151 A player knows why that coach is suggesting that particular thing. 543 00:25:11,151 --> 00:25:13,701 Again, getting that engagement is really important. 544 00:25:13,701 --> 00:25:14,362 So they own it. 545 00:25:14,512 --> 00:25:17,512 They own it rather than just being told you need to go and do this task. 546 00:25:18,142 --> 00:25:18,472 Yeah. 547 00:25:18,532 --> 00:25:18,742 Yeah. 548 00:25:18,772 --> 00:25:24,172 Wonderful example of how to, first of all, listen, and then how to add the 549 00:25:24,172 --> 00:25:27,892 context also in your communication rather than just say, do that, or I, before you 550 00:25:27,892 --> 00:25:30,562 do that, what is the context behind it? 551 00:25:30,772 --> 00:25:32,002 What will the company gain? 552 00:25:32,002 --> 00:25:32,782 What will the Dean gain? 553 00:25:32,782 --> 00:25:33,592 What will you gain with. 554 00:25:34,657 --> 00:25:37,747 The one at one of the things that I always refer back to is Simon 555 00:25:37,747 --> 00:25:41,822 Sinai talking about the, the alter, why or why is so important? 556 00:25:41,822 --> 00:25:46,622 And I got showed that video a number of years ago, and I still refer back to 557 00:25:46,622 --> 00:25:50,766 it now because the Y it doesn't matter if you're a buyer as a consumer, you 558 00:25:50,876 --> 00:25:54,341 want to buy a product and therefore, you want to how you relate product. 559 00:25:54,671 --> 00:25:59,158 But I think as an individual within life If you can hone into the why. 560 00:25:59,236 --> 00:26:01,906 I think it, and then I think what it is then is that people don't 561 00:26:01,906 --> 00:26:05,746 necessarily need to agree on the why, but then at least they understand. 562 00:26:05,746 --> 00:26:08,656 And if they understand the why of you're doing a task being 563 00:26:08,656 --> 00:26:10,766 sport or work people, then. 564 00:26:10,766 --> 00:26:11,199 Own that. 565 00:26:11,349 --> 00:26:13,179 And therefore they put all their energy behind it. 566 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,744 Otherwise it's just, I don't know why we're doing this. 567 00:26:16,224 --> 00:26:18,241 You're not going to get the same level of of engagement. 568 00:26:18,781 --> 00:26:19,141 Yeah. 569 00:26:19,201 --> 00:26:19,621 Yeah. 570 00:26:19,741 --> 00:26:24,547 I think remembering the Vive and you're doing the, what brings that purpose 571 00:26:24,577 --> 00:26:26,437 or that meaning with, which is always. 572 00:26:27,032 --> 00:26:28,712 But it brings it to the current action. 573 00:26:28,777 --> 00:26:33,931 We spend a lot of our time actually doing the, what don't we, again, turn 574 00:26:33,971 --> 00:26:37,373 around to a child and say, I need you to, I need you to pass like this. 575 00:26:37,478 --> 00:26:41,138 That's the what to be able to explain to them, why are we parsing like that? 576 00:26:41,198 --> 00:26:43,588 Oh, if I do that, there's more chance that it's gonna be easy for 577 00:26:43,598 --> 00:26:47,408 them to catch it, or I'm going to be able to throw it, pass it further. 578 00:26:47,408 --> 00:26:48,669 Or what are those examples are. 579 00:26:49,374 --> 00:26:53,694 If they understand the why we can always make sure the war is improved upon. 580 00:26:54,594 --> 00:26:54,894 Yeah. 581 00:26:54,954 --> 00:26:56,634 Thank you for that wonderful example. 582 00:26:56,681 --> 00:27:00,911 And as we talk about purpose and meaning, how do you decide, or how 583 00:27:00,911 --> 00:27:05,351 do you define your own future, which is meaningful and purposeful for you? 584 00:27:05,951 --> 00:27:07,121 What's in store for you in the. 585 00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:11,053 Without being too dramatic, I think it's about sort of something about legacy. 586 00:27:11,053 --> 00:27:11,393 Isn't it? 587 00:27:11,401 --> 00:27:13,891 You want to leave what you want to leave the world in a better place 588 00:27:13,891 --> 00:27:15,530 than, what, when you first entered it. 589 00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:18,883 And I think that's important from a career point of view, it might 590 00:27:18,883 --> 00:27:21,995 in my current company w there's a lot of changes, lot of changing in 591 00:27:21,995 --> 00:27:23,793 the industry, it's exciting time. 592 00:27:23,793 --> 00:27:24,663 It's a pressure time. 593 00:27:24,663 --> 00:27:24,803 It's. 594 00:27:25,373 --> 00:27:30,649 It's hard at times, but there's a lot around making sure that again you're 595 00:27:30,716 --> 00:27:34,535 leaving that company, leaving that team in a better place than you were before. 596 00:27:34,535 --> 00:27:37,502 And one of the things that I hope to look back in, few future years 597 00:27:37,502 --> 00:27:40,827 when I've retired and I sit down and reflect and all that sort of stuff, and 598 00:27:40,827 --> 00:27:43,880 it's a number of years just for your viewers to be reassure you want to look 599 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,960 back and actually know that you've. 600 00:27:45,855 --> 00:27:49,914 There are people who've changed their life, for the good, through your 601 00:27:49,914 --> 00:27:54,248 interaction, your support your sponsorship your camaraderie, your friendship, 602 00:27:54,278 --> 00:27:58,097 whatever that may be in order that you can actually say, you've improved things. 603 00:27:58,397 --> 00:28:01,727 So I think, again, that's quite a big thing to say, but for me at 604 00:28:01,727 --> 00:28:02,862 the moment, that's probably my. 605 00:28:02,891 --> 00:28:06,352 Desire from a leadership point of view to look at, that I leave that world 606 00:28:06,352 --> 00:28:10,856 in a better place from a career point of view, balanced, quite frankly, in 607 00:28:11,216 --> 00:28:15,177 the, I have a job to do, and I need to drive forward, my, my priorities 608 00:28:15,177 --> 00:28:16,437 and I need to get the job done. 609 00:28:16,455 --> 00:28:19,915 So it's great to, it's great to reflect on, improving people and 610 00:28:19,915 --> 00:28:21,255 things like that, but I'm very. 611 00:28:22,095 --> 00:28:23,835 Did I have a job to get done as well. 612 00:28:23,835 --> 00:28:27,556 So it, it's the balance between again, operational and strategic, 613 00:28:27,946 --> 00:28:29,034 but that's what I hope to do. 614 00:28:29,034 --> 00:28:32,256 And you got to going forward, spend more time to actually take step back 615 00:28:32,256 --> 00:28:33,736 and make sure people are improving. 616 00:28:33,736 --> 00:28:35,065 And again, that they're developing that. 617 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:36,550 Yeah. 618 00:28:36,580 --> 00:28:36,810 Yeah. 619 00:28:36,837 --> 00:28:40,947 I think it's wonderful that how you highlighted it, it's a balance and 620 00:28:40,947 --> 00:28:43,947 it's not either, or because if you forget the, what, then nothing gets 621 00:28:43,947 --> 00:28:45,267 done, then nothing moves forward. 622 00:28:45,717 --> 00:28:49,046 So the what is, what moves the world forward at the same time? 623 00:28:49,426 --> 00:28:52,616 What can actually make it make life difficult for you? 624 00:28:52,736 --> 00:28:55,616 If you forget the why, what if you have never even questioned? 625 00:28:55,616 --> 00:28:56,319 What is the why? 626 00:28:56,329 --> 00:28:59,599 So that's the legacy part, because that tells me that you're connected, 627 00:28:59,659 --> 00:29:01,609 connecting your, what, with the why. 628 00:29:01,639 --> 00:29:03,460 And then you are very conscious about keeping that. 629 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,538 I think you get the right to create that Bruton. 630 00:29:06,548 --> 00:29:09,058 And if you're actually getting the job done, what you can't do is 631 00:29:09,058 --> 00:29:12,148 just spend all your time thinking and saying, Hey, we could do this. 632 00:29:12,148 --> 00:29:15,928 We could do that because we live in a fast-paced world and 633 00:29:15,928 --> 00:29:17,128 things need to get done as well. 634 00:29:17,128 --> 00:29:18,538 So yeah, it is a balance. 635 00:29:19,138 --> 00:29:19,498 Yes. 636 00:29:20,057 --> 00:29:23,173 So before, before we end, what is one piece of advice that you 637 00:29:23,173 --> 00:29:28,213 would give to somebody who has big aspirations, big dreams, but they 638 00:29:28,213 --> 00:29:29,803 have been on hold for whatever reason. 639 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:30,550 Good question. 640 00:29:31,550 --> 00:29:36,842 Think I would say, be clear on why you're trying to achieve something, 641 00:29:36,842 --> 00:29:39,511 is again, is it a reflection of some. 642 00:29:39,605 --> 00:29:43,888 About the individual things, just to be clear on what what you're trying 643 00:29:43,888 --> 00:29:45,635 to achieve and just be yourself. 644 00:29:45,684 --> 00:29:49,224 One of the things as a leader is there are times you, again, have to have. 645 00:29:49,297 --> 00:29:53,071 No mask on little bit is always going to be as times because you've got to 646 00:29:53,071 --> 00:29:57,736 deliver some messages that not always, believe in yourself, you, you need to do. 647 00:29:59,236 --> 00:30:04,366 And I think what I would say is anybody who's looking to get into leadership or 648 00:30:04,606 --> 00:30:09,466 drive a particular project or ambition forward, just be clear why you want to 649 00:30:09,466 --> 00:30:11,576 do that because it takes a lot of energy. 650 00:30:11,576 --> 00:30:15,995 And from a personal point of view, positive energy is one of my attributes, 651 00:30:16,355 --> 00:30:19,955 but we all get tired, so you can't go into it not being yourself. 652 00:30:19,985 --> 00:30:21,725 So look at what you want to achieve. 653 00:30:21,815 --> 00:30:26,695 Be clear and just go for it because I was one person once said, you 654 00:30:26,695 --> 00:30:29,594 could spend a lot of your time worrying about, getting things. 655 00:30:30,414 --> 00:30:32,754 But you could also be excited about what you could learn 656 00:30:32,764 --> 00:30:35,184 and what you could succeed on. 657 00:30:35,184 --> 00:30:38,064 There's probably a much better saying than what I've just cobbled together there, 658 00:30:38,064 --> 00:30:39,448 but it really is important to don't. 659 00:30:39,538 --> 00:30:42,663 Don't be held back by the fear of failure, just be excited by what you can. 660 00:30:43,893 --> 00:30:44,343 Thank you. 661 00:30:44,358 --> 00:30:47,506 I think that's a, that hits the spot on multiple levels. 662 00:30:47,506 --> 00:30:51,691 I think the connecting with the Y allows you to remind yourself why you are 663 00:30:51,691 --> 00:30:55,801 doing something and then you can always choose where to put your attention. 664 00:30:56,281 --> 00:30:57,271 It could be on the fear. 665 00:30:57,271 --> 00:30:58,681 It could be on the anxiety. 666 00:30:58,771 --> 00:31:02,131 My audit would also be on the excitement or the newness of what, 667 00:31:02,156 --> 00:31:03,309 and that sort of is a choice. 668 00:31:03,339 --> 00:31:03,699 Yes. 669 00:31:03,849 --> 00:31:04,209 Thank you. 670 00:31:04,309 --> 00:31:06,285 So just to close, do you have any lasting tarts? 671 00:31:06,285 --> 00:31:09,564 So is there a place the listeners can reach out to you and find out more. 672 00:31:10,959 --> 00:31:15,380 I know, do you get me on LinkedIn Jason Reese by all means anybody can 673 00:31:15,570 --> 00:31:19,120 share ideas more than happy to to ha I love this type of conversation. 674 00:31:19,145 --> 00:31:22,475 This reason that obviously you and I are talking today, so more than happy 675 00:31:22,475 --> 00:31:26,853 to talk yeah, again, just thank you for the invitation and hopefully my thoughts 676 00:31:26,897 --> 00:31:28,318 have helped someone out there today. 677 00:31:28,345 --> 00:31:28,615 Ideally. 678 00:31:29,615 --> 00:31:30,155 Wonderful. 679 00:31:30,245 --> 00:31:30,725 Thank you. 680 00:31:30,755 --> 00:31:31,955 Thank you, Jason, for your time. 681 00:31:31,985 --> 00:31:36,365 And I'm sure these torts were, would be wonderfully helpful for many people, 682 00:31:36,785 --> 00:31:39,575 not just people who will listen to the podcast when it is released, 683 00:31:39,605 --> 00:31:41,465 but also going into the future. 684 00:31:41,975 --> 00:31:44,495 And I think that's what I like about digital content 685 00:31:44,495 --> 00:31:45,935 that it can persist over time. 686 00:31:46,385 --> 00:31:48,815 And one thing which we did now can actually continue 687 00:31:48,815 --> 00:31:50,555 to add value in the future. 688 00:31:50,795 --> 00:31:55,205 So I greatly appreciate and wholeheartedly thank you for your time. 689 00:31:55,325 --> 00:31:55,535 Thank 690 00:31:55,535 --> 00:31:55,625 you. 691 00:31:57,182 --> 00:32:00,572 That's it for this episode of choosing leadership with summit. 692 00:32:01,712 --> 00:32:05,402 I choose leadership every time I record this podcast and I 693 00:32:05,402 --> 00:32:06,842 invite you to do the same. 694 00:32:07,292 --> 00:32:11,672 I invite you to design a life of joy, meaning pride and satisfaction. 695 00:32:12,152 --> 00:32:15,092 Not just for yourself, but also for those around you. 696 00:32:15,932 --> 00:32:20,072 This is what I do most naturally to lovingly and gently provoke you. 697 00:32:20,522 --> 00:32:24,992 To help you see your own light to help you see what you are already capable of. 698 00:32:25,472 --> 00:32:29,372 I say what might be uncomfortable for me to say, or for you to hear. 699 00:32:29,972 --> 00:32:35,092 To show you that all of our dreams which have been on hold are within our grasp. 700 00:32:36,722 --> 00:32:39,962 If you like the sound of it, do not forget to leave a rating. 701 00:32:40,532 --> 00:32:44,732 I invite you to subscribe to my newsletter@deployyourself.com 702 00:32:45,062 --> 00:32:46,022 slash newsletter. 703 00:32:46,652 --> 00:32:50,492 You can also reach out on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Facebook to share 704 00:32:50,552 --> 00:32:52,172 any other comment or feedback. 705 00:32:53,042 --> 00:32:56,492 I want to thank everyone who contributed to making the show. 706 00:32:56,552 --> 00:32:57,242 At reality. 707 00:32:57,752 --> 00:32:59,312 And thank you for listening. 708 00:32:59,792 --> 00:33:04,322 Always remember that you are enough, you are loved and you matter, this is summit. 709 00:33:04,712 --> 00:33:07,262 Until next time, keep choosing leadership.