Jethro Jones: welcome to transformative principle, where we interview real
principals who are doing amazing things to help our students every single day.
I'm your host, Jennifer Jones.
You can find me on Twitter at Jethro Jones.
Today.
I am very fortunate to have Tony finished his interview.
If you are listening to this in the car, you might want to pull over and take out
a notebook because Tony has so much great information to share with you today.
He is an inspiring principal who you can tell.
He loves what he does and loves the students that he's working with.
This is a great interview, and I hope that you learn a lot from.
And I hope that you'll excuse that I was recording in a place where
there was a training going on.
They came in halfway through the interview.
And so when I talk, there's a lot of background noise.
I did my best to erase that.
So it's not as annoying.
So anyway, the good thing is what Tony says.
So you can ignore most of what I say.
And I'd like to thank our sponsor for this week's episode.
SaneBox this last week was spring break and.
So I didn't get a lot of emails, but it was really nice at the end of
each day to get an email from SaneBox telling me about all the marketing
emails that I'd missed and be able to deal with those and not have them
interrupt me while I was on spring.
So please click the link in the show notes and give SaneBox a try.
I think you'll really love it.
Tony Sinanis: for
Jethro Jones: sure.
So let's talk a little bit about what you're really good at and
known for, and that's being a good branding expert for your school.
Talk about how somebody would.
It's just getting into social media and how they could take their school
from nothing to being a positive brand that people think that.
Tony Sinanis: Sure.
Um, I think, I think the whole branding things, just so you know, I'm going to
food is being delivered as I'm doing this.
And I have the
. No worries.
So the whole branding thing for me started, um, after I took a
workshop with Eric Schenander.
Um, last year at eight, no two years ago at AACD.
And then again, last summer at N ESP, which is the elementary
school principals association.
And Eric said something really simple that resonated with me.
Why are we going to let other people tell our stories when we can be the one
telling our stories, we can create the perception, we can build the reality.
Um, and, and it just, it stuck with me.
And I was like, yes, we can.
You're right.
We control that.
Why am I going to let the local paper write something with a local news
agency, run a story about the common core or high stakes testing or, or
how much teachers get paid and we get paid too much and blah, blah, blah.
Um, when in fact we can spotlight not only what we're doing, right?
Because I can tell you all the wonderful things we're doing again.
But when we tell a story, I, you, how we.
So I can tell you, we do writer's workshop, but how does that look?
Right.
And why does it look that way?
Because writer's workshop is rooted in a philosophy of, of teaching and learning.
It's rooted in the gradual release of responsibility of
learning from teacher to student.
And so it's about philosophy.
It's not about program or resources.
Um, I wanted our community to know that I want our community to know that that
that's what we build our thinking on.
Not just randomly saying, okay, let's buy this resource and put it in place.
This is why we believe in that this is how we do it.
You know, um, we believe in one-on-one instruction here at Cantiague.
Like we do a lot of one-on-one instruction.
There's a lot of, you know, uh, reading conferences, writing conferences,
math conferences, whatever, because every kid is different.
They learn different and we believe in formative assessment.
And what does that mean?
Here are pictures to show you, you know, um, we believe in small group
work because research shows that proximity plays a role in, in teacher
transmission of learning to student or student availing themselves to learning.
We believe in valuing the whole child.
Like I love my kids and they know that.
And so when kids feel good about themselves in a space,
their brain releases endorphins.
And when your brain releases.
You are open to learning, you know, so that's the background in terms of
like, that's the stuff that we do here.
So why are we going to let news day write an article about the fact that
we get paid too much or that we only work eight months out of the year?
Some, you know, business like that?
No, because we do a lot, a lot goes into everything that we do.
Every choice we make is thoughtful is reflective, is meaningful.
It's not just random.
We just randomly decide to do one-on-one instruction.
There's research that speaks to the power of that.
So after hearing.
And talking about it in our school, I started using
Twitter are I'm very fortunate.
Our building is, um, is wifi.
Um, and I walk around with an iPad and I take pictures all day and
I tweaked them out with captions.
I'm conscious.
I don't put anyone's name in a tweet.
I just write, you know, grade two kid working on making
an inference or whatever.
So, um, that's how I started telling the story.
I did Twitter one-on-one workshops for parents so that they can get connected.
We have over a hundred parents with.
Um, we have 400 kids, so not bad.
Um, but I also realize that not everyone's on Twitter.
So we use Storify, which is a web-based and app based resource where you can
curate all your tweets and collect them.
And so I send those out in a link to our parents on Friday,
here's our weekend sweets.
They still get the picture and they get the.
I'm really thoughtful about the caption, because I want that to capture the how and
why not just the, what, not just like here we are in a small group, we're in a small
group because, you know, blah, blah, blah.
So, um, that is how I've gone about branding our school.
So hashtag canny ag, he goes into every tweet and, um, he does it.
And, um, you can find that when you Google Kenny ag.
It was an opportunity for us to take control of our storytelling.
And I know people think branding like negatively because you're trying to
market or whatever, but you know what?
We are businesses.
That's what we are.
Um, we are about money on some level.
We are obviously primarily about kids, but money's involved.
So we.
We need to capitalize on that.
We need to tell the story.
So that has been the main platform for me, social media.
The other thing that I started doing this year, which I love is
we do video updates with our kids.
Um, and so each week a different classes spotlighted, and they have a couple
of days to go around the building and find out what each grade level is
doing and what special areas are doing.
They come and they have lunch with me on Wednesday or Thursday, depending.
And we film a little video.
It takes like 20 minutes or so, but it is such an awesome experience for these kids
to know what's going on in their building.
And then we shoot this video out.
So I'm not the one telling the story because you know what, I can
make it up from my office, right.
Because the principal just sits in their office all day.
Well, my kids are the ones they're living it.
They're telling us.
Um, so next week we will start.
We have gone through.
Great.
Fourth, third and second.
So we're going to start first grade.
So we're going to have little first graders finding out what they're
doing in fifth grade, and they're going to come and tell us about it.
Um, so I'm really excited and the feedback has been really positive.
Uh, those go on YouTube.
I use the TouchCast app.
And they then go on YouTube and, um, we get over 300 views a week,
which I think is pretty awesome.
You know, um, George Gross, who I love and I respect, he has picked up my
video, um, updates and he spotlights them during his presentations and Dean sure.
Risky, or I don't remember how to say his name shows.
Okay.
He also spotlights those, which is great.
Yeah.
Like, it's such a powerful tool and it takes so little time, but
it's student voice so that the brand management has been shifted
from me to our staff and our kids.
Because the one thing I need people to know, if they're listening to
this, you have to make sure that brand experience matches the brand promise.
So I can't sit and tell you that we believe in one-on-one instruction.
We believe in small group instruction and that never happens.
Um, it's got to happen.
And that starts inside.
That starts as a, as a school community that starts as a district community.
Like, what are you doing?
What do we believe in?
What, how are we going to teach us, how are we going to plan?
You know, we believe in, uh, you know, understanding by design.
So we believe in essential questions.
That's going to be a part of our thinking when we plan.
And so that brand.
Must match a better brand experience or don't put it out there.
Don't falsify what's going on.
So that's, that's my thinking.
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
I think that's great.
Don't tell people that this is how we do things at our school and it's
not really how we do this is what we believe, but it's not really what we do.
Those have to be aligned.
And I think that's a, that's a great point.
So you taught Twitter and one-on-one classes to parents,
um, and staff and staff.
And then, um, you do.
These weekly videos.
Um, and then you post those out.
How have you dealt with these student privacy?
Um, parents not wanting their kids on the internet.
How have you dealt with that?
Is that through
Tony Sinanis: education?
As a great question?
I got lucky because I work in a district that forces not
forces, but families have to.
So when they registered their kid, they have to check off the thing that
says, I don't want them in pictures.
Yeah.
And which is, which really is genius.
Because if you try to get everyone to opt in, you're going to be
chasing people around for years.
So, um, so we do the opt-out thing and I have been so transparent in it.
I talked to the parents about it all the time and I. And I, and I can tell
you that it has changed the relationship between our school and our community.
It's, it's transparent.
They know what's going on.
Um, they feel comfortable coming to me and asking me questions.
When we have PTA meetings, we're not just talking about big
sales and, and, and fundraisers.
We are talking about book clubs and what those look like
and why we believe in those.
We talking about guided reading and why that is.
We talk about math and focus.
Cause that's a new math resource we're using.
How is that preparing our kids for middle school and so on and so forth.
So the conversation.
So much richer, um, and parents feel that they can access my parents
who tweet me about math homework.
They're like, need help with this math problem.
What do we do?
You know?
Um, and it it's, it's, it's, it's transformed.
So you talk about transformational leadership that has transformed
the way we function as a community because no school can be successful
without the community support and no community can grow without a school
that's, you know, constantly reflect.
I thinking and evolving.
So, so that's really been a focal point for me.
That's awesome.
Jethro Jones: Um, sounds like there's some amazing things that are happening there.
Is there, is there anything else that, uh, that you want to say about that
branding, something else that somebody could be doing that they may not be?
Tony Sinanis: I think it's just a matter of starting small, find
something that you want to spotlight and build it from the inside.
Like talk about it as a staff.
And this can be like faculty, like, so we don't have faculty meetings anymore.
I don't call them faculty meetings.
I call them faculty intimate opportunity because they're an opportunity
for us to learn and grow, not just for us to sit and hear me talk.
Um, you can spend an entire year as a school thinking about what you
believe, what do you believe in, what do we espouse in our actions?
And, and what does this communicate when we say this or do that?
And so I think you have to start there and then go, go from that point.
Use Facebook or use Twitter or, you know, get to the parents the
way that is easiest for you to do.
That's, you know, we use email a lot of emails.
So,
Jethro Jones: uh, I have two questions that I ask at the end of
each interview and they sometimes take a very short answer and
sometimes this is a very long answer.
So to respect your time, I'll ask them right now.
And then if you take a long time, then that's okay.
But, um, the, uh, the first one is, um, What is something that
somebody you advice you would give somebody today to help them become
a transformative principle like you?
Tony Sinanis: Um, wow.
Okay.
I would say three things.
One is, it's not about you.
It's about the community and what their needs are.
So when we talk about transformational or transformative leaders,
those are people who can.
Get their finger on the pulse and realize what needs to change
and why it needs to change.
So don't just change things for change sake, because you think
you're a change agent was then it becomes about you and not the school
community or, or the instructional practices or the kids or whatever.
Um, and that's, I've seen people fall into that trap.
Um, and so it's not about you.
Um, the second thing is.
You must stay current.
You must be informed.
You must be read.
You must know what instructional practices that are rooted in research that I've
shown to be effective are ones that you value and you want to see in your
school and you must get buy-in in those again, just be used to ending at a
meeting and saying, Hey, you know what?
I think small group instruction is what we need to do, and this
is what we're going to do now.
But instead of.
Share an article, send a link out, get the people talking about it and
get people thinking about it because in order to be a transformative,
a transformative leader, you're transforming, people's thinking, right.
You have to be able to transform people's thinking, but the only
way that's going to happen is if they trust you is if they know that
it's not again, not just about you.
Um, it's about the issue.
It's about the need.
It's about the gap.
It's about whatever.
And so I guess, relationship.
Are very much at the core of any transformative leadership
or transformational leadership.
Um, because that's the expectation that we're going to get student
achievement to increase.
We're going to get test scores to go up.
We're going to get teachers to do X, Y, and Z. And the
community is going to do ABC.
That's what transformational leadership is about.
But the only way that happens is if the relationships are rooted in trust
and people know that you're not doing.
For you, you're doing things because they're in the best interest of our kids,
of our community or so on and so forth.
Um, yes, that is so
Jethro Jones: powerful before I do the last thing.
That's the thing that I've heard over and over and over from these transformative
principals that I've interviewed, it's about relationships and trust.
And once that's established, you can do pretty much anything.
And I appreciate you reaffirming that, cause that
Tony Sinanis: is so vital.
And the only way people would trust you.
Is if you're you're, you're not only talking the talk,
but you're walking the walk.
And when I first got here, I was modeling independent reading conferences.
I was modeling small group instruction because that's what I believed was
effective, but I was totally open to, Hey, tell me, rip me apart.
Tell me why this does not work.
Um, cause I don't know.
What do I know?
I only know from the experiences I have and when you build that.
The smartest person in the room is the room, right?
Everyone in that collective space.
And we have such expertise in our buildings, in our communities that
in order to be transformative or transformational or whatever, the
word it takes us collective process, this, this, this, this group effort.
You're not going to do it alone.
Um, and the last thing I'll say, and this is just me personally, um,
don't take yourself too seriously.
Don't take yourself as the principal too seriously.
Cause you're not that big of a deal.
You're replaceable in a moment.
But take the work that you do seriously.
And I live, I live for the space.
I live for these kids and for our staff and our community.
And it's why I'm here on a Friday when I'm off this week.
And it's why I come in on weekends.
This is why I'm here until 5 30, 6 o'clock at night at the expense
of other things in my life.
Very much, because this is a priority.
So for any new leaders who might listen to this, it's not about you don't take
yourself too seriously because when you start walking around, like, I'm the
principal, you project this like sort of finished product, I'm finite, I'm done.
I'm the principal.
So I don't need to learn anymore because I did all this stuff, but you
know what, if anything, you need to be learning the most and you need to be
projecting the most and sharing the most.
And again, it's not about you.
It's about the relationships you build and it's about.
You're not taking yourself too seriously.
That's my opinion.
I like to laugh and have a good time.
So I will, I think
Jethro Jones: that's great advice also.
Um, I, uh, I was talking to a teacher just a couple of days ago and she said, I
finally realized that I am a replaceable parts in a big system and I can be out of
the job tomorrow and the work will still continue on and it doesn't matter if it's
me doing it, or if it's somebody else.
And, and so I need to do the best that I can, but I have to remember also
that I'm not, I'm not the center of it.
The kids are, and whatever I'm doing
Tony Sinanis: needs to be focused on.
And that's it, you're, it's not about you.
Like, I don't show up here because, um, I want people to like kiss the
ring and, you know, um, bow to my feet.
Uh, no, not at all.
I come here because I want to set the stage for other people to shine and for
other people to grow and for other people to learn and my job as a. It's to remove
the obstacles, not be the obstacle or not be the focus or whatever, you know, so
that's really important to me as well.
Jethro Jones: Absolutely.
That's awesome.
Um, so the very last question is kind of a light softball question for you.
What's something in your office that you have there that inspires or
motivates or reminds you why you're
Tony Sinanis: doing what you're doing.
Okay.
I mean, really, it's pretty easy for.
This is when I look at every day, um, this is my son.
Um, and, um, he's, uh, he's, he's my life.
Um, his name is Paul and he is, um, in fourth grade.
He is why I do what I do because when I come, when I come here,
I always in the back of my head, think, what would I want for Paul?
What would I want Paul's school to be like, what would I want Paul's
classroom to be like, what would I want?
Paul's a community.
What would I want Paul's principle to be like, and that's where I leave.
I leave from that space.
And, um, I think that's done me all right so far.
Um, and I've learned more from him about education than anything I learned
in a course in a book, in a class.
Um, because when you're a parent, I get it.
I get it.
My parents come in here and they might be angry about something or they might be sad
about something or they might be, this is.
With this other person is like your heart and your soul right.
Wrapped up in this other little body.
So I think of Paul and I think of the 403 kids that I have here.
They are someone else's life and heart and soul.
So I have the most important job in the world.
We as educators have the most important job in the world and I value that.
And so he is my motivation very much on a lot of levels.
Amen.
Jethro Jones: I, my oldest daughter, her name is caught tissue.
In second grade right now.
And, uh, yeah, same type of thing.
I've I feel like so much of what I do is, is dependent on, on how
I would want her to be treated.
And, and it gives me a great respect for the struggles that our, our
students and our parents are going through and keeping her in mind helps
me make those, those choices that are really beneficial for all my stuff.
Not just one here, one there,
Tony Sinanis: but for all of them.
Yeah.
You know what, Paul Paul, our son was born with medical issues.
His main issue is that he has, um, congenital scoliosis, um, which
requires surgery every six months.
So it's quite a journey.
Right.
Um, but what I've learned from Paul, he's so incredibly resilient and he's
so incredibly positive, um, that I realized anything that we can do.
Anything we want to do, we can do, we can make it.
Um, but everyone has a in their life.
So it may not be a medical issue, but our kids, our staff, our parents,
they have a Paul in their life.
You know, it might be someone who's learning disabled.
It might be someone who's going through a divorce.
It might be someone who is addicted to drugs.
It might be someone who lost all their money because of the, you
know, re uh, re uh, recession.
Sorry.
Everyone has that person in their life.
And we have to value that we have to put value on that.
And if we want our staff to be successful, we want our kids
to be successful as a leader.
I need to remember that because our staff is coming to school and they
might've have had their kid throw up on them on the way to school.
Or they may have had their mom go to the hospital the night before,
or one of our kids coming to school.
And they may have heard their parents arguing the whole car
ride to school or whatever.
Those are things that.
Shape us for me, it's Paul that shapes, you know, my family.
Um, and so that's important to keep at the forefront when
you're interacting with people.
When you're placing expectations on people, they are these
people who are shaped by their outside lives and experiences.
That's that's something important to me.
Absolutely.
Well,
Jethro Jones: thank you so much, Tony, for your time.
Is there any, uh, final shout out you want to give or, or how
people can connect with you?
Tony Sinanis: Uh, you can file.
Find, follow me on Twitter.
I'm at Tony T O N Y. S I N a N I S and my last name is a palindrome.
So spell forwards and backwards the same way.
So if you forget to spell it backwards, uh, and I'm, I'm pretty active on Twitter.
Um, you can go to Jericho schools.org is our website.
You can find my school, Kenny ag elementary school there.
You can see my email address if you want.
Um, we have units of study available online, you know,
whatever people want to see, but Twitter is the best way to get me.
Um, when all I can say is, remember that being an educator.
It means that you are constantly looking to learn and grow
for the sake of children.
Right.
And so we can keep kids at the center then we're good to go.
That's right,
Jethro Jones: Tony, again, thank you so much.
This has been awesome.
Tony Sinanis: My pleasure.
And I'll talk to you soon.
Have a great day.
Bye-bye bye.
Bye.
Bye
That
Jethro Jones: really was an awesome interview with Tony.
He is such an inspiring leader, and I hope that you learned a lot from.
I'd love to hear what you think about the show.
Please feel free to send me some feedback.
jethroJones@gmail.com or you can find me on Twitter, follow me there
and give me some feedback as well.
At Jethro Jones is my Twitter handle.
Also, if you like the show, please share it with your
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Send them emails, let them know what's going on.
Even if they're not into a social media, you can still share the
great things that you're learning from these wonderful principles.