1 00:00:11,724 --> 00:00:17,784 Jethro D. Jones: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. 2 00:00:18,294 --> 00:00:19,794 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 3 00:00:19,794 --> 00:00:22,494 You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones. 4 00:00:35,210 --> 00:00:37,850 Welcome to Transformative Principal. 5 00:00:37,850 --> 00:00:40,910 I am so excited to have on the program today, Shenita Perry. 6 00:00:41,180 --> 00:00:42,590 I am your host, Jethro Jones. 7 00:00:42,590 --> 00:00:48,830 You can find me on all the social networks at Jethro Jones and Shenita is an assistant principal in. 8 00:00:49,205 --> 00:00:58,265 Alabama and we're gonna talk today about, the school X book study that she recently went through with me and what that was like. 9 00:00:59,105 --> 00:01:01,985 so everybody can have an idea of what that's like. 10 00:01:01,985 --> 00:01:03,845 If you want to do that with me also. 11 00:01:03,845 --> 00:01:04,865 Shenita, welcome. 12 00:01:04,865 --> 00:01:07,955 Tell us a little bit about yourself and what you're doing and where you're at. 13 00:01:08,620 --> 00:01:09,300 Shenita Perry: Hello, Jethro. 14 00:01:09,300 --> 00:01:10,470 Hello everyone. 15 00:01:11,070 --> 00:01:13,440 as Jethro said, my name is Shenita Perry. 16 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:22,950 I am an assistant principal in Montgomery Public Schools, Montgomery, Alabama at Baldwin Arts and Academics Magnet School, which is a six through eight school. 17 00:01:23,650 --> 00:01:28,960 We academically gifted and gifted students at our school, 18 00:01:33,250 --> 00:01:33,640 six. 19 00:01:36,875 --> 00:01:37,865 Jethro D. Jones: Okay, cool. 20 00:01:38,075 --> 00:01:53,555 And so having academically and artistically gifted students, I'm sure presents its own, types of challenges, and, issues that other people, they may think that's just a, walk in the park, but I'm sure there are challenges with that also, right? 21 00:01:53,705 --> 00:01:54,815 Shenita Perry: Oh, most definitely. 22 00:01:54,815 --> 00:01:58,295 There are definitely challenges, especially because they're middle schoolers, 23 00:01:59,705 --> 00:02:00,095 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 24 00:02:02,525 --> 00:02:12,095 Shenita Perry: Academically gifted or being artistically gifted along with going through all the changes that they go through as middle school students. 25 00:02:12,755 --> 00:02:27,905 it's, really an interesting, setup because I've been a, I was, my first middle, my first assistant principal position was at another, we call 'em traditional middle schools at a traditional middle school in our district for three years. 26 00:02:28,265 --> 00:02:29,255 Totally different. 27 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,970 But you still have your, issues. 28 00:02:35,090 --> 00:02:40,910 They may not be the same issues or to the same level, but they are, you do have issues. 29 00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:41,750 I'll just say that. 30 00:02:41,750 --> 00:02:43,700 Situations, I won't call them issues. 31 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:44,240 They're like 32 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:46,370 challenges. 33 00:02:46,460 --> 00:02:47,810 Challenges, like you said. 34 00:02:48,290 --> 00:02:48,830 Jethro D. Jones: for sure. 35 00:02:48,830 --> 00:02:51,185 I. That, that makes sense. 36 00:02:52,385 --> 00:03:02,195 so you joined the school X book study that we did, earlier this year, and I just wanted to get your take on it, what you, enjoyed about it. 37 00:03:03,605 --> 00:03:05,045 so why don't we just start there. 38 00:03:05,315 --> 00:03:07,415 You, why did you join in the first place? 39 00:03:07,550 --> 00:03:14,600 Shenita Perry: Okay, so the reason I joined in the first place, I'm a, regular listener of Principal Matters with Will Parker. 40 00:03:15,260 --> 00:03:21,170 So at the end of one of the episodes I heard your, I call it your commercial for the school X book study. 41 00:03:21,290 --> 00:03:21,410 Jethro D. Jones: all 42 00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:27,845 Shenita Perry: So I was really, intrigued because, I was just intrigued. 43 00:03:28,295 --> 00:03:32,675 I'm, I love to learn, so I really was like, that sounds interesting. 44 00:03:32,675 --> 00:03:44,675 So then I think I asked Will about it, and then I, think I pulled up, I got a sample of your book on my Kindle, so I started reading it. 45 00:03:45,695 --> 00:03:50,555 I may have done that after I signed up, but it just seemed like it was just something I needed to do. 46 00:03:51,605 --> 00:03:55,685 I just, I love to learn, so I'm a, glutton for learning. 47 00:03:56,105 --> 00:04:01,235 So then once I started reading a sample of your book, I think I reached out to you and told you it was so amazing. 48 00:04:01,235 --> 00:04:02,525 This is really what I needed. 49 00:04:03,035 --> 00:04:10,295 So it was just, it was refreshing and different, and it made me start looking at my. 50 00:04:11,015 --> 00:04:16,505 Leadership and looking at the school experience for everybody in a different way. 51 00:04:16,565 --> 00:04:32,885 Making sure I honed in on, it's not just my experience, it's not just my teacher's experience, it's all of our experiences, my experience as a leader, my teacher's experiences, my students' experiences, the parents' experiences, how we experience school. 52 00:04:33,455 --> 00:04:34,325 So that really, 53 00:04:34,895 --> 00:04:35,285 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 54 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:36,160 Shenita Perry: intrigued me. 55 00:04:38,090 --> 00:04:38,480 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 56 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:43,970 and not a lot of people talk about the school experience in the way that I do. 57 00:04:44,295 --> 00:04:44,785 Shenita Perry: Exactly. 58 00:04:45,020 --> 00:04:49,250 Jethro D. Jones: so it usually takes me a while to explain to people what that really means. 59 00:04:50,660 --> 00:05:01,700 so rather than me explain it, let's see how well I did and explaining it to you, would you define that school experience, which is a different way of looking at things from how we traditionally do. 60 00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:02,555 How would you define that? 61 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:14,090 Shenita Perry: the traditional thing, we look at it, the traditional way we look at school is we look at, we get the kids in, we teach 'em, we push 'em out into the world. 62 00:05:15,170 --> 00:05:17,840 We get the kids in, we teach 'em, we push 'em out into the world. 63 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:24,170 But from the experience that the way you, your book, 64 00:05:27,140 --> 00:05:29,990 your book and the book study, we. 65 00:05:52,415 --> 00:05:55,595 helped us be the best people we can be. 66 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:57,980 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 67 00:05:59,915 --> 00:06:19,175 Shenita Perry: It's hard to describe, and I think it's my words, not yours, not how you, you did a great job with the book study, but it's, just my biggest takeaway was looking at the lens, looking at school from a variety of perspectives and not just 68 00:06:19,340 --> 00:06:19,630 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 69 00:06:19,805 --> 00:06:20,890 Shenita Perry: we know school to be. 70 00:06:21,980 --> 00:06:26,690 Like when we learned about the design, thinking, and I'm about to botch this up. 71 00:06:26,690 --> 00:06:35,900 I know I am, but the five levels, you gotta help me with this now, Jethro, the five levels of the thinking, it's going blank in my brain right now. 72 00:06:36,140 --> 00:06:37,220 Come on Jethro, help me 73 00:06:38,255 --> 00:06:39,155 Jethro D. Jones: yeah, I got you. 74 00:06:39,305 --> 00:06:40,415 So it's empathy. 75 00:06:40,445 --> 00:06:47,555 First you get empathy for what someone's going through, and then you do a rapid prototype, and then you, sorry. 76 00:06:47,585 --> 00:06:54,455 Before you do the rapid prototype, you ideate and then rapid prototype, and then you reflect, and then you do the whole process all over again. 77 00:06:54,845 --> 00:06:56,975 And so idea. 78 00:06:57,335 --> 00:07:02,405 What you said though was perfect that it's about seeing school through different people's eyes 79 00:07:02,945 --> 00:07:04,985 seeing what their experience is like. 80 00:07:05,015 --> 00:07:08,495 And so what does it look like for a parent walking up to your school? 81 00:07:08,495 --> 00:07:13,925 What does it look like for a kid on the first day of school or on the hundred and 75th day of school? 82 00:07:14,255 --> 00:07:15,485 Do you ever think about the, and. 83 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,150 Most of the times we don't. 84 00:07:18,180 --> 00:07:29,250 And so that's what I'm trying to get across with this book is we do need to think about that and then we need to be intentional about designing that process so that it's actually meaningful and valuable to the people that are there. 85 00:07:29,375 --> 00:07:40,745 Shenita Perry: Exactly, because like you just said, the hundred and 75th day at school, so we have exactly, a little bit less than a month for the kids, but today was like the month away for the teachers. 86 00:07:41,195 --> 00:07:43,265 So yesterday was a month away for the kids. 87 00:07:43,475 --> 00:07:47,975 So it's like looking, when I meet with teachers about. 88 00:07:48,470 --> 00:08:02,360 Situations and challenges, and I'm looking, I'm, trying to look at it from the perspective that they see it because I have been a teacher, but I'm also trying to look at it from that teacher's perspective. 89 00:08:03,020 --> 00:08:08,660 like situation came up today and I was trying to look at it from that teacher. 90 00:08:12,170 --> 00:08:17,300 The way it went, that, they may have been at the point where they're ready to just say, Hey, whatever. 91 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:18,440 There's just a month left. 92 00:08:18,770 --> 00:08:18,920 You. 93 00:08:20,075 --> 00:08:24,905 So help understand that, like they say, seek first to understand and not to be understood. 94 00:08:25,415 --> 00:08:34,535 So I'm starting to look at, have that empathy walk in that person's shoes in that particular person's shoes, not just the shoes I walked in as a teacher. 95 00:08:34,535 --> 00:08:42,455 And I think that's one thing we forget too, as leaders, we try to walk in other people's shoes, in the shoes that we walked in, if that makes sense. 96 00:08:43,535 --> 00:08:44,045 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 97 00:08:44,050 --> 00:08:44,270 Yep. 98 00:08:44,765 --> 00:08:45,785 Shenita Perry: Forget their shoes are. 99 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,425 Their, situation is totally different from ours, so trying to. 100 00:08:52,535 --> 00:08:55,115 Jethro D. Jones: I. I like what you said there. 101 00:08:55,115 --> 00:08:58,655 You said, we try to walk in other people's shoes, but we still keep our own shoes on. 102 00:08:58,955 --> 00:09:00,305 that's essentially what we're doing. 103 00:09:00,965 --> 00:09:04,265 And, that doesn't help anybody because we're not actually walking in their shoes. 104 00:09:04,265 --> 00:09:08,735 We're just saying we are to try to make ourselves feel better, but we're not actually doing it. 105 00:09:09,035 --> 00:09:18,425 And what I encourage people to do is to actually walk in their shoes and see what it feels like and force yourself out of your current position and say, what would this be like if I were a student? 106 00:09:18,425 --> 00:09:19,805 If we had a month left of school? 107 00:09:20,085 --> 00:09:22,305 What would my day to day look like? 108 00:09:22,695 --> 00:09:32,325 Would, I be able to tell that my teacher is sick of, me, and of the class, or would I think that they're gonna miss me like crazy because they're not gonna see me in a month? 109 00:09:32,355 --> 00:09:33,825 And that just breaks their heart. 110 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:34,640 Shenita Perry: Yeah. 111 00:09:35,145 --> 00:09:36,525 Jethro D. Jones: what message are we sending? 112 00:09:36,525 --> 00:09:37,935 Do we ever even think about that? 113 00:09:38,195 --> 00:10:00,755 Shenita Perry: Exactly, because I feel like sometimes we send a message to the kids that they're inferior because they're children or because, I, and that's one message that has really stuck out to me, and I think it has stuck out more be since I've done the book study, the, making, the treating kids as if they're not human. 114 00:10:01,145 --> 00:10:02,225 If that makes any sense. 115 00:10:02,405 --> 00:10:04,565 We forget the human part of the child. 116 00:10:05,225 --> 00:10:06,575 We just think, okay. 117 00:10:07,025 --> 00:10:14,765 They come in my room like it's in a, like I said earlier, they come in, we teach 'em, we spit 'em back out, come in, we teach 'em, we spit back out, but we forget. 118 00:10:15,380 --> 00:10:21,830 In the midst of that, we have little humans or younger humans, 'cause they're not always little, they're not always smaller than us. 119 00:10:21,830 --> 00:10:23,690 Some of 'em are taller than us and bigger than us. 120 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:39,080 But, we forget the element that this kid may have not eaten last night, or this kid may be taking care of family members or, 'cause I think the perception with, type of school I work at is that every kid has what they need. 121 00:10:40,130 --> 00:10:48,860 And there are still kids that come from low socio socioeconomic backgrounds, but they're able to come to our school because they meet the requirements. 122 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:55,130 But they may be struggling, in other ways, and we forget about that. 123 00:10:55,850 --> 00:10:56,660 Or we forget. 124 00:10:56,660 --> 00:11:08,870 Yeah, they're smart, but they may not be the kid whose parent, made sure they pronounced every t correctly, pronounced every word correctly, but they're, they can hang with the best of them. 125 00:11:09,485 --> 00:11:15,875 We forget about that part of the child or the, not just the child though, but the adults in the building. 126 00:11:16,085 --> 00:11:20,945 We forget that they're dealing with struggles and real life when they leave school. 127 00:11:22,355 --> 00:11:32,795 we forget that I, they may have aging parents or they may have a handicap child, or they may go home to a lonely house and not know how to deal with that. 128 00:11:33,860 --> 00:11:41,690 they may have experienced major loss in their lives, and at the time that they experienced the loss, everybody had compassion and grace. 129 00:11:42,020 --> 00:11:48,110 But, two years later, nobody, thinks to ask, Hey, how are you doing today? 130 00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:50,455 do you need anything? 131 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:51,920 Jethro D. Jones: nobody may even know. 132 00:11:52,255 --> 00:11:52,745 Shenita Perry: Exactly. 133 00:11:53,255 --> 00:11:55,085 Jethro D. Jones: Nobody may even know that they did that. 134 00:11:55,085 --> 00:11:56,165 They had that problem 135 00:11:56,210 --> 00:11:56,780 Shenita Perry: Exactly, 136 00:11:56,855 --> 00:11:57,275 Jethro D. Jones: ago. 137 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:08,150 Shenita Perry: I have a tendency to look out for everybody else, but not talk about my own, not share what I'm dealing with, and sometimes that's, sometimes it's a. 138 00:12:10,535 --> 00:12:14,465 and, then when, I get overwhelmed, I'm like, shoot, people don't know I'm going through this. 139 00:12:14,465 --> 00:12:15,365 I'm going through that too. 140 00:12:15,365 --> 00:12:27,125 But that's the thing I think we all forget in all parts, the leader experience, the parent experience, the teacher experience, the student experience, that we forget the humanity of every other part. 141 00:12:27,935 --> 00:12:28,655 We forget. 142 00:12:29,020 --> 00:12:29,310 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 143 00:12:32,315 --> 00:12:43,625 Shenita Perry: Are in this for the right, we're in this to make sure that the children, not just the children are successful, but everybody's successful and it takes all of us working together. 144 00:12:44,135 --> 00:12:53,435 I think that's one thing I really, I saw a lot of the synergy of, if everybody's experience is what it needs to be and we all work together. 145 00:12:54,125 --> 00:13:02,285 The experience can be even that much greater and the impact and the success rate and what we achieve can be that much greater. 146 00:13:02,525 --> 00:13:09,995 Like they say, together, everyone achieves more, but until we understand each other's experiences, we won't be able to achieve more. 147 00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:12,485 I hope that makes sense. 148 00:13:14,375 --> 00:13:29,765 Jethro D. Jones: That totally does, and that's, really what I'm trying to get across with the book and the book study that, the book is great and you can read it and do all this stuff, but the book study walks you through each section and teaches you how to do it so that you can see what it's like. 149 00:13:29,765 --> 00:13:35,135 And we play games and we do different exercises to make sure that we get the experience of. 150 00:13:35,940 --> 00:13:38,010 trying it out and, trying things. 151 00:13:39,055 --> 00:13:45,715 Is there, of those games or activities that you thought was especially memorable and helpful? 152 00:13:45,855 --> 00:13:46,755 Shenita Perry: Oh my goodness. 153 00:13:46,830 --> 00:13:47,860 Jethro D. Jones: you're allowed to say no. 154 00:13:48,765 --> 00:13:51,705 Shenita Perry: I remember, but I don't remember what the game was called. 155 00:13:51,735 --> 00:13:57,495 I think it was like there was a, there were activities each time. 156 00:13:57,615 --> 00:14:02,805 What was the one where we had to say, and such and such and such? 157 00:14:03,255 --> 00:14:05,805 What was the name of that one that. 158 00:14:05,805 --> 00:14:06,195 Jethro D. Jones: Yes. 159 00:14:06,195 --> 00:14:08,055 And it's a very simple game. 160 00:14:08,055 --> 00:14:08,415 Yes. 161 00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:11,010 Shenita Perry: Yes, and that was really cool. 162 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,510 And then when you taught us about the communication cards, that was super cool. 163 00:14:15,885 --> 00:14:16,425 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 164 00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:22,260 Shenita Perry: But there was another activity you did with us that was, I liked all of them though. 165 00:14:23,220 --> 00:14:26,040 What was the other activity that you did with us? 166 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:27,630 I can't remember. 167 00:14:28,140 --> 00:14:28,950 But the Yes. 168 00:14:28,950 --> 00:14:33,300 And was really cool because everybody share input to help. 169 00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:35,940 Some of it might not have been helpful. 170 00:14:35,940 --> 00:14:38,280 I think I gave some crazy answers, but. 171 00:14:40,530 --> 00:14:40,710 Jethro D. Jones: did. 172 00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:41,460 That's the beauty of 173 00:14:41,545 --> 00:14:41,835 Shenita Perry: yeah. 174 00:14:42,030 --> 00:14:42,510 Yeah. 175 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:49,830 But it was really, and the thing I loved about the book study, we all came from different locations. 176 00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:52,140 We came from different parts of the country. 177 00:14:52,290 --> 00:14:57,750 We came from different types of schools because we had somebody that was from like a Christian school. 178 00:14:58,725 --> 00:14:59,985 We had elementary. 179 00:15:02,785 --> 00:15:03,005 Jethro D. Jones: Yep. 180 00:15:03,270 --> 00:15:06,210 Your middle school and then one person was a high school too. 181 00:15:06,495 --> 00:15:17,685 Shenita Perry: We had principles and then we had, it was the diversity that really, and just hearing what everybody, the thing was, hearing what everybody else went through and knowing that, hey, I'm not in this by myself. 182 00:15:18,765 --> 00:15:28,395 because we think in different parts of the world, people or different parts of the country, people don't experience what we experience, but we all are in the same boat. 183 00:15:28,765 --> 00:15:31,555 Or even in the yacht basin, we're in the same yacht basin. 184 00:15:31,945 --> 00:15:37,825 we may not have the same type of boat, but we're all in the same harbor trying to get to a location. 185 00:15:39,115 --> 00:15:40,945 that was, I thought that was really cool. 186 00:15:41,605 --> 00:15:44,305 I, just liked, and our group was small and intimate. 187 00:15:44,425 --> 00:15:47,365 I liked that too because our group was not that big. 188 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,825 So that really made it, 189 00:15:49,830 --> 00:15:50,220 Jethro D. Jones: yeah, 190 00:15:50,335 --> 00:15:51,265 Shenita Perry: that made it. 191 00:15:53,850 --> 00:15:54,750 Jethro D. Jones: yeah, for sure. 192 00:15:54,750 --> 00:16:04,770 So what have you, if anything, and if you're like, I had nothing, what have you taken away from that, that you're doing now on a regular basis in your day-to-day work? 193 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:06,150 I. 194 00:16:06,810 --> 00:16:11,280 Shenita Perry: I, it, does come from the book study, but it's on a small scale. 195 00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:24,360 How I, one thing, like I mentioned earlier, the biggest thing is trying to look at things through other people's, through the lens that everybody else sees. 196 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,250 It, sees how they experience. 197 00:16:27,405 --> 00:16:30,855 How they're experiencing things at school. 198 00:16:31,755 --> 00:16:38,445 like you said, the kids, so when they, when I talk to the kids, I tend to ask more questions. 199 00:16:39,525 --> 00:16:41,055 I try to dig deeper. 200 00:16:42,465 --> 00:16:43,845 like, how does that make you feel? 201 00:16:43,845 --> 00:16:51,645 Or do you realize this based on, do you realize your, I had a conversa, lemme say this. 202 00:16:51,675 --> 00:16:53,655 I had a conversation with a student. 203 00:16:55,260 --> 00:16:57,000 he was upset with his teacher one day. 204 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,060 I know this is gonna sound weird, but he was upset with his teacher. 205 00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:06,330 So I, I said to him, I said, you do remember last year your teacher dealt with a lot. 206 00:17:06,330 --> 00:17:08,100 She had a lot going on. 207 00:17:08,850 --> 00:17:10,620 she had a very tragic thing to happen. 208 00:17:11,235 --> 00:17:18,405 And so he was like, and I said, it's, this might've been right before the book study, but the book study helped me see that I did the right thing. 209 00:17:18,915 --> 00:17:29,865 So I said, I said, you remember, it was around this time of year when that happened because he was saying she was, it seemed like she was in a bad mood and just stuff like that. 210 00:17:30,705 --> 00:17:31,845 So I said, you realize that. 211 00:17:35,850 --> 00:17:39,180 It may be because of what happened last year. 212 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,950 And so he was like, you know what? 213 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,350 That makes sense Ms. Perry. 214 00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:44,460 That makes sense. 215 00:17:45,180 --> 00:17:48,570 So what I'm, gonna do, I'm gonna try to be a little more compassionate. 216 00:17:48,570 --> 00:17:55,500 So then not long after I started the book study, something else similar happened with another student. 217 00:17:55,950 --> 00:18:04,080 So I was able to kind of channel, Hey, think about how your teacher try to look at it. 218 00:18:05,220 --> 00:18:09,210 And so they were like, oh, I never thought about it like that. 219 00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:13,260 But the hardest part is not to get the kids to think that way. 220 00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:18,600 It's the hardest part is to get the grownups to try to remember, you remember what it was like when you were a kid. 221 00:18:18,870 --> 00:18:20,730 'cause I did that with one of the teachers. 222 00:18:20,730 --> 00:18:23,130 He was having some classroom management problems. 223 00:18:23,130 --> 00:18:24,480 And then I said, yeah. 224 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,340 I said, but you gotta remember they're this age. 225 00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:29,340 And he was like, yeah, I remember how I was when I was that age. 226 00:18:29,915 --> 00:18:30,205 Yeah. 227 00:18:30,555 --> 00:18:30,975 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 228 00:18:31,035 --> 00:18:31,575 Oh boy. 229 00:18:33,195 --> 00:18:33,495 Yeah. 230 00:18:34,725 --> 00:18:48,735 Shenita Perry: Even though that's not walking in these kids' shoes, because when I was 13, 12, 13, 14, 11, number one, we didn't have cell phones, so that's a whole, we didn't have social media, we had like bash books and stuff like that. 231 00:18:49,845 --> 00:18:53,325 we had the, hard copy version of what they do online now. 232 00:18:55,185 --> 00:18:56,595 it's the access. 233 00:18:56,595 --> 00:18:59,115 They have faster access to stuff than we had. 234 00:18:59,325 --> 00:19:00,495 So I try to. 235 00:19:01,605 --> 00:19:06,585 That now try to get the teachers to remember that and at the end of the day, they are still children. 236 00:19:07,125 --> 00:19:10,185 children are gonna do stuff that makes no sense to us. 237 00:19:10,365 --> 00:19:13,425 But if you think back to when you were a child, oh yeah, I did do that. 238 00:19:14,025 --> 00:19:15,285 Or I probably did worse than that. 239 00:19:15,795 --> 00:19:17,325 it's just different. 240 00:19:18,505 --> 00:19:18,795 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 241 00:19:19,455 --> 00:19:20,865 Shenita Perry: I dunno if that answered your question. 242 00:19:21,165 --> 00:19:22,065 I hope that answered your. 243 00:19:22,380 --> 00:19:25,110 Jethro D. Jones: oh yeah, you totally got it. 244 00:19:25,110 --> 00:19:33,540 And that's key is being able to see others' perspective, see where they're at, and see what their experience is instead of just thinking that, just because. 245 00:19:33,915 --> 00:19:37,935 I think that is automatically the truth and really the key. 246 00:19:38,355 --> 00:19:42,195 We, got a bit open to what they're thinking and what they're, seeing. 247 00:19:42,225 --> 00:19:49,065 So my last question is, what is one thing that a principal can do this week to be a Transformative Principal like you? 248 00:19:49,065 --> 00:19:50,615 Shenita. 249 00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:52,290 Shenita Perry: That's a good question. 250 00:19:54,555 --> 00:19:54,855 Jethro D. Jones: thank you. 251 00:19:57,510 --> 00:20:08,100 Shenita Perry: just have a, just be, have a listening ear and an open eye to see what other people see from the vantage point that they see it. 252 00:20:09,540 --> 00:20:13,590 So just start trying to look at things from different perspectives. 253 00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:18,540 And then to be, this is one thing, and I think we may have talked about this. 254 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,430 These might not be the exact words, but this is something that has resonated with me a lot since the book study. 255 00:20:23,910 --> 00:20:28,170 Listen to understand instead of listening to respond. 256 00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:41,190 Because a lot of times when we listen to what, when we're in a conversation, we're just listening to say, see what we're gonna say next instead of listening to make sure we understood what was said before we say something or before we do. 257 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,370 Or before we ask the next question. 258 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:53,400 So when you try to look at stuff through other people's experiences or perspectives, you tend to listen to understand. 259 00:20:53,460 --> 00:20:54,330 So that's one thing. 260 00:20:54,330 --> 00:21:01,501 I think as leaders, we don't really, we, our, lives are so overwhelmed with everything that's going on. 261 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:07,050 We forget to take the time to make the time to do that because you have to make the time to do that. 262 00:21:08,415 --> 00:21:11,685 And to remember, we don't need to do all of the talking. 263 00:21:11,685 --> 00:21:13,485 Sometimes the listening part is the. 264 00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:17,490 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 265 00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:20,250 Boy, that is fantastic and a great place to end. 266 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:22,740 thank you so much for being here. 267 00:21:22,770 --> 00:21:27,360 If you're listening and you would like to join the book study, you can do that at a link in the show notes. 268 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:36,990 Jethro Do site slash s xbs for school X book study, and there's a link to that at Transformative principle.org on the show notes for this episode. 269 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,410 Thank you so much, Shenita, for being part of Transformative principle today.