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Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for
the Curious.

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I'm Hamish, your host.

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In each episode you'll hear from everyday
people who've been through profound life

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altering experiences, from life
threatening illnesses or accidents, deep

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existential crisis, addiction, or having
to make life choices that have ultimately

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brought them peace, connection and
purpose.

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They've all stared into the abyss, walked
through the fire of their own personal

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dark nights of the soul, and emerged from
the other side transformed.

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This podcast is for anyone going through
an awakening, a time of massive change, or

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questioning the

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meaning of life.

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You are not alone.

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You can get through this.

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I promise you life is more meaningful and
beautiful on the other side.

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Hi everyone.

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Today we've got Liz with us and she is
going to tell us about her awakening and

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her journey because it's been quite a
remarkable one.

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Hi Hamish, thanks for inviting me on and
hi to your listeners.

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I love this project and when you sent me
the link about the title, it just so

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deeply resonated with me.

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Awakening, I just think it's a wonderful
name and a wonderful concept.

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So yeah, thank you very much for that.

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Well, I suppose you could say my
awakening, my journey that I'm currently

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on, this...

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part of my life, this chapter in my life,
started with a very, very simple thing

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really.

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I just pushed away a wine glass one random
Sunday night at dinner, having my roast

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dinner and said, no, no thank you, not
tonight.

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And that began a journey of transformation
that...

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I had no idea would take place when I did
that simple gesture six and a half years

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ago nearly now that that happened.

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But I mean to get to that point, to get to
there, there had been a lot of trial and

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error, there had been a lot of soul
searching, a lot of work, a lot of

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reading, a lot of immersing myself in a
different mindset.

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re -educating myself to realise that I
didn't need alcohol in my life anymore and

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from that one simple gesture everything,
everything in my life changed utterly.

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So yeah, so that's my awakening.

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My Awakening is My Sobriety.

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Congratulations.

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That is brilliant.

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Yeah, I can see you doing that.

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Just putting that glass down and saying,
that's enough.

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What an incredible feeling.

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But it was, I guess, as you said, it must
have been quite a journey to get to that

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point.

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Tell me a little bit about the background,
if you would.

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So I drank like everybody I knew at the
time.

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I started drinking as a teenager and at
the time it was really normalised.

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It was in the 80s.

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I lived in Ireland in a small village in
County Limerick and I was a bit of a

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rebel.

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I was brought up in London as a child.

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moved to Ireland at the age of 11.

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So there was always an element of being a
bit of an outsider in my life.

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And I only realised that as I started to
do the work, actually, after I stopped

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drinking.

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But when I was in England, in London, I
was raised as an Irish girl.

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My Dad would teach me the odd word of
Irish.

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I was trotted out every time there'd be a
family get together, always with booze, to

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sing the Galway Shawl and to sing...

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various like Spancil Hill and the rebel
songs and St.

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Patrick's Day would come, we'd have green
ribbons in our hair, we were very involved

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in the Irish community.

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So when I'd be in school I was very much
the Irish kid and then when I moved from

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Ireland to England I became the English
kid and it was at the height of the

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Troubles as well.

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and where we moved to was a very
Republican area.

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Well, this is where my mom was from, not
my dad.

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My dad was from Galway.

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So it was a really difficult transition
and I experienced some bullying, but I

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didn't, I just, you know, in those days
you just got on with it.

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So when I got old enough to express myself
and to have a bit of a say in who, I

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suppose my identity, I drank very much to
fit in.

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I drank to rebel as well.

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So I was rebelling against...

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the older generation, but also the
patriarchy, you know, and Catholicism and

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everything that was, we were just
entrenched in all of that in those days.

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And boredom, it was so boring.

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There was nothing going on.

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So in my head, London was this, you know,
bright lights, big city place, even though

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I didn't have any exposure to any of that,
because I was a child when I lived there.

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And where I was living was very kind of
monochrome.

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And when I started drinking, when I had my
first drink, and that was an act of

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rebellion and boldness really, it was, it
just, everything just lit up for me.

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It was like fireworks in my brain.

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It's like, this is great.

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I felt instant kind of acceptance.

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I was a huge risk taker.

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I was just, it just animated me.

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And I was quite lively anyway as a child.

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and quite curious and yeah, expressive.

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I had a lot to say, but when I started to
drink, I instantly found a tribe.

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I found my way and found my voice.

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And I think that then led to going to
university.

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I became the first in my family, apart
from our English cousins, to go to

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university.

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And that was a huge thing from both sides
of my family.

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And when I got there, I found another
tribe.

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I found a tribe of people who were like
-minded and into the same stuff that I was

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into and could talk about books and films
that I was into, not be kind of othered or

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feel weird for the things that we liked.

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But also I ended up as a barmaid working
in the college bar and just partied and

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partied and partied.

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And it was great fun, great fun.

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And it was great fun when I went abroad
and I worked as a teacher.

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and I traveled in the Middle East and
lived in the Middle East for a number of

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years and then kind of got into the expat
community, which is completely alcohol

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drenched.

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And just every single, just because we
lived in each other's pockets, there was

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always somebody's birthday.

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There was always some kind of thing to
celebrate, whether it's a promotion or

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commiserate.

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Somebody was, you know, stressed at work
or had a bad time.

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So there was always something there in my
early twenties.

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And also I think with me then, it copper
fastened my identity as an Irish person

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traveling abroad.

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Because it's like, here's Liz, she's great
craic, she'll sing songs.

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And I don't know, I used to think it was
great craic, but now I think back and I

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cringe and I think, Jesus, I turn off like
the party tapes and go, no, no, we're

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going to have a sing song, come on, let's
have a sing song.

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And, or, or.

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I went through a phase of reading Irish
poetry, that was another thing that I did,

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so I would stop everything.

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And it became things like, when did you
leave the party?

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Was it before or after Liz started doing
the poetry?

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And then I realised, God, this is the
thing I do.

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And I think it was because alcohol enabled
me to express so much of what I had to

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keep.

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Bottled up.

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Alcohol, once I had it, I could just do
anything.

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And I felt invincible and I felt it was a
superpower.

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I could talk to anybody.

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I could argue with anybody.

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And I always used to find that I got into
really fun situations on the whole.

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You know, there are some scrapes there
when I think back and I think and Julia,

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my friend and my other podcast host in my
podcast, Julia, she said, do you know what

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it was like, Liz?

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It was like we were going around these
young women, right?

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walking around cities, like just bodies
walking around with absolutely like our

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brains were gone.

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Our brains were offline.

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And I think back and I look at my children
now, I mean, my son's 18 and my daughter's

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12 and I think, my God, I just couldn't
imagine expecting or allowing or thinking

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about them out in the world in that
vulnerable state that we were in.

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when we were young like that.

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But at the time, I was invincible.

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And I was very, very lucky.

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I think I have some kind of divine angel
guide looking down on me, minding me,

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because there were a number of scrapes and
some of my friends weren't as lucky.

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But all the time it was fun and it was
joyous and it was an expression of who I

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was and it was a way for me to be me.

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the essence of who I was.

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And I thought that alcohol enhanced all of
that.

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It added flavor to my life.

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It made it colorful.

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And it didn't, and the thing with my
alcohol consumption was I drank the same

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way from day one.

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So when I was a teenager, maybe about 14,
I drank to get drunk, to experience the

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high, to have an altered state.

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That was it.

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And it was really only when I had
children, because again, that's the thing.

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I went from the whole, you know, young
professional, expat, traveling the world

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to settle down.

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And then I became, it became mommy wine
time.

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So we all pushed the means.

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We, I mean, we advertised it.

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We, we didn't need to be advertised.

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We didn't need to be targeted to, but we
had been prior to that.

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Sex in the City was always sponsored by

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Jacob's Creek.

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So without fail, you'd stick that on and
you go, do you know what I fancy?

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The next thing there'd be a chink chink
and you'd be at the at the fridge door

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pouring the white or whatever.

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I liked red wine because I was
sophisticated and had a sophisticated

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palette, obviously, because I was a
professional, you know, so expensive wine.

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But you know, I just when I think back, I
just say it's just the lies we tell

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ourselves.

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But it started, I think I started to
question my drinking.

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when I started to drink at home and when I
started to feel isolated.

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And I think that I was always drinking at
home to a degree with the father of my

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children, my ex.

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And I was always, whenever anyone would
come around or anyone would visit from

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Ireland, any of my friends or family,
first thing we'd do is open the wine.

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But obviously I didn't drink during the
day, so we'd have to wait till dinner time

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to have it.

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But then all bets were off.

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then all bets were off, so we could be up
till four or five in the morning or

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whatever.

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But the wine started to find its way into
the shopping bag more frequently and the

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excuses started to be made more regularly
when it came to having spaghetti bolognese

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midweek, for instance, because when I was
a mom, I was working part time, so if I

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had Thursday off, I'd have to have
spaghetti bolognese on a Wednesday.

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because I'd have to have wine with it
because you don't, I mean, only peasants

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make spaghetti bolognese without red wine,
you know?

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So it'd be some for the dish and some for
me.

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And then there'd always be an extra bottle
hidden away.

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So the Wednesday night or the Thursday
night became, and it never developed into

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something that was like every single
night.

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I never, because I just thought, God, I
just thought of it because I would always

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overdo it.

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and I'd always be hanging the next day.

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I didn't know any, I just couldn't
understand how, you know, you'd get tips

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in magazines or on telly, you know, on
this morning they'd be doing the cookery

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bit and let's say, and any leftover red
wine, you just freeze it in ice cube trays

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and put it in the freezer.

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I was like, who does that?

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That's the biggest lie that we tell
ourselves.

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But some people do, you know, Hamish, I
believe.

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(Hamish) I can't believe it.

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But that was where I was at.

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And I think I got to a stage of realising
when my children, you know, my son was

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about six or seven and my daughter
probably was about two.

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And I started to think, is this it?

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Is this it?

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Is this the highlight of my week?

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Like looking forward to having this bottle
and a half of wine on a Wednesday night or

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then maybe having it on a Friday and then
Saturday.

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And the Sunday one was the one that killed
me because it was the weekend.

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So I would say to myself, I'm not going to
have wine tonight because it's Friday,

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because I'm going to do park run on a
Saturday because I used to run a lot.

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And then I'd find myself texting my
running group saying, is anyone having a

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glass of wine just because it's Friday?

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And somebody, all I needed, all I needed
was for one person to take a picture of

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their glass of wine.

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And then I'd be like, well, I'll have one
because such and such is having one.

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And then that would always, for me, end up
with me drinking the rest of the bottle

227
00:14:11,497 --> 00:14:14,847
and possibly looking for more, you know,
later on.

228
00:14:14,847 --> 00:14:17,796
And then smoking fags and then, you know.

229
00:14:17,796 --> 00:14:22,357
So, and meanwhile, and I'd still get up
and I'd still run and I'd still be

230
00:14:22,357 --> 00:14:23,177
hanging.

231
00:14:23,177 --> 00:14:25,437
But that person would be like, yeah, I did
have that wine.

232
00:14:25,437 --> 00:14:26,517
Yeah, I feel a bit rough.

233
00:14:26,517 --> 00:14:29,317
And I'd realize that they only had that
one.

234
00:14:29,477 --> 00:14:32,837
But it would never end like that for me,
never.

235
00:14:33,033 --> 00:14:34,833
But still it wasn't a problem.

236
00:14:34,833 --> 00:14:41,033
It didn't seem a problem and it was really
only a problem when I started to feel

237
00:14:41,033 --> 00:14:46,033
depressed with him and I didn't even
realize it was depression until I stopped.

238
00:14:46,033 --> 00:14:51,433
But I was saying earlier with the weekend,
the Friday would happen, Saturday I'd say

239
00:14:51,433 --> 00:14:56,053
no, then we'd have a takeaway curry, the
wine would come into the room, I'd have

240
00:14:56,053 --> 00:14:59,613
just the one, it would lead to something
else.

241
00:14:59,653 --> 00:15:02,053
Sunday would be the roast dinner.

242
00:15:02,409 --> 00:15:08,649
and the wine would come to the table and
once again it would be me going I'll just

243
00:15:08,649 --> 00:15:13,509
have one because I'm working tomorrow and
by the end of the night I'd be looking

244
00:15:13,509 --> 00:15:20,209
around stealing his Guinness, stealing his
Roli's, getting into trouble, you know,

245
00:15:20,209 --> 00:15:25,909
sitting out the back having a hot whiskey
thinking this will change tomorrow and I

246
00:15:25,909 --> 00:15:30,409
think that's when I realized that it was
an issue because I kept breaking promises

247
00:15:30,409 --> 00:15:31,541
to myself.

248
00:15:31,817 --> 00:15:33,997
I kept saying, tomorrow's gonna be
different.

249
00:15:33,997 --> 00:15:35,337
Tomorrow's gonna be different.

250
00:15:35,337 --> 00:15:41,817
And I did, I tried things like, I suppose
I tried, my friend used to jokingly call

251
00:15:41,817 --> 00:15:43,437
me a stopaholic.

252
00:15:43,437 --> 00:15:46,817
She would say, you're not an alcoholic,
you don't have a problem with booze, you

253
00:15:46,817 --> 00:15:50,497
just have a problem with stopping drinking
when you start.

254
00:15:50,957 --> 00:15:53,787
Or you're addicted to stopping.

255
00:15:53,961 --> 00:15:58,421
because I would find it, and you know me
now, I am the queen of challenges.

256
00:15:58,421 --> 00:16:00,011
Every month there's a new challenge.

257
00:16:00,011 --> 00:16:05,401
If you follow me on Instagram, and I love
it because that's what lights me up.

258
00:16:05,401 --> 00:16:09,321
And I share challenges with people because
I love to see people in tribes doing

259
00:16:09,321 --> 00:16:10,841
things together.

260
00:16:10,841 --> 00:16:17,161
But I also love challenges because for me,
it makes me accountable.

261
00:16:17,161 --> 00:16:19,689
So every month I was starting a new.

262
00:16:19,689 --> 00:16:24,269
I'm giving up Boo's challenge and it would
be, I'd call it Joyful January.

263
00:16:24,269 --> 00:16:28,889
I think these were the days even before
Dry January, but I did do a few Dry

264
00:16:28,889 --> 00:16:29,469
Januaries.

265
00:16:29,469 --> 00:16:33,389
Then I kind of jump on the Catholic
bandwagon and say, I'll do Advent.

266
00:16:33,389 --> 00:16:35,269
So I've done a few Advents.

267
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:37,089
God, Lent was a gift to me.

268
00:16:37,089 --> 00:16:40,149
I was always like, well, it's all going to
be better now in February because it would

269
00:16:40,149 --> 00:16:41,189
be Lent.

270
00:16:41,189 --> 00:16:43,529
And then I'd start.

271
00:16:43,529 --> 00:16:47,229
I'd start on Ash Wednesday and then
something would come up and I'd be like, I

272
00:16:47,229 --> 00:16:50,169
should look at, I'll start again in April
or, you know.

273
00:16:50,169 --> 00:16:54,469
But that one Sunday night, it didn't just
happen out of the blue.

274
00:16:54,469 --> 00:16:59,889
I'd had a few runs at it, but prior, it
had taken me a good few years of trying to

275
00:16:59,889 --> 00:17:06,509
keep this drug in my life before I
realized, actually, I don't need it.

276
00:17:06,509 --> 00:17:11,189
I don't, why am I working so hard to
moderate this drug?

277
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:13,257
Why am I working so hard?

278
00:17:13,257 --> 00:17:14,357
moderate.

279
00:17:14,357 --> 00:17:17,237
Why would you even, why would you want one
anyway in the first place?

280
00:17:17,237 --> 00:17:18,837
Why would you have one anyway?

281
00:17:18,837 --> 00:17:21,717
So that was my mindset.

282
00:17:21,957 --> 00:17:28,197
And yeah, it wasn't until I met, I saw
somebody, it was actually Lucy Rocker who

283
00:17:28,197 --> 00:17:31,697
set up Soberistas talking on this morning.

284
00:17:31,997 --> 00:17:39,617
And she was essentially talking about grey
area drinking and alcohol use disorder and

285
00:17:39,617 --> 00:17:42,943
the spectrum of alcohol use disorder.

286
00:17:43,081 --> 00:17:48,181
that I realised, that's what's happening.

287
00:17:48,341 --> 00:17:50,181
That's who I am.

288
00:17:50,181 --> 00:17:51,721
That's how I drink.

289
00:17:51,721 --> 00:17:53,441
It's problematic.

290
00:17:53,981 --> 00:18:01,341
And yeah, that's when I thought it's time
to do something about this and do

291
00:18:01,341 --> 00:18:02,881
something about it now.

292
00:18:02,881 --> 00:18:08,473
Yeah.

293
00:18:08,735 --> 00:18:12,255
really empowering because it is hard.

294
00:18:12,255 --> 00:18:16,655
But you sound like you constantly had more
awareness.

295
00:18:16,655 --> 00:18:18,735
I wasn't so clever.

296
00:18:18,735 --> 00:18:20,705
I did that.

297
00:18:20,705 --> 00:18:24,395
I plummeted and I came down to two
choices.

298
00:18:24,975 --> 00:18:31,135
And it was carry on driving drunk and
crash and kill somebody or myself or get

299
00:18:31,135 --> 00:18:32,315
to rehab.

300
00:18:32,929 --> 00:18:33,719
my god.

301
00:18:33,719 --> 00:18:34,531
Yeah.

302
00:18:34,531 --> 00:18:40,331
think that's amazing that you were able to
have that sense of awareness and go, this

303
00:18:40,331 --> 00:18:41,501
is not really working.

304
00:18:41,501 --> 00:18:47,151
Yeah, it wasn't day one, it wasn't your
first relapse, but you managed that.

305
00:18:47,851 --> 00:18:53,661
So what was it like after you put that
glass down?

306
00:18:53,661 --> 00:18:58,291
Because I guess you had to confront
various things that were hidden at the

307
00:18:58,291 --> 00:18:59,755
bottom of that glass.

308
00:19:00,849 --> 00:19:03,009
god, it was really hard.

309
00:19:03,009 --> 00:19:10,969
I mean at first it was really liberating
because I had put so much research into it

310
00:19:10,969 --> 00:19:18,109
and I think I don't know like for you that
rock bottom that you talk about and having

311
00:19:18,109 --> 00:19:24,689
to face that stark choice between really
death or life, wasn't it?

312
00:19:24,689 --> 00:19:26,869
It was a life or death choice.

313
00:19:26,869 --> 00:19:29,129
Although I didn't have that.

314
00:19:29,129 --> 00:19:34,989
per se, that story that you have was a
story that kept me drinking, because I

315
00:19:34,989 --> 00:19:36,689
kept saying, I'm not that bad.

316
00:19:36,849 --> 00:19:42,829
And that's why I speak about this so
passionately, because I think we all need

317
00:19:42,829 --> 00:19:49,705
to address our drinking and, or our
habits, our habits that numb us out.

318
00:19:49,705 --> 00:19:51,705
No, it might not be drinking for
everybody.

319
00:19:51,705 --> 00:19:52,395
It could be.

320
00:19:52,395 --> 00:19:56,865
I see a lot of students in schools who
have vaping.

321
00:19:56,865 --> 00:20:00,025
That seems to be really on the increase at
the moment.

322
00:20:00,025 --> 00:20:03,125
And cannabis, vaping and things like that.

323
00:20:03,645 --> 00:20:05,785
But it could be gambling.

324
00:20:05,844 --> 00:20:07,925
It could be shopping.

325
00:20:07,925 --> 00:20:10,605
You know, sugar is another one, isn't it?

326
00:20:10,605 --> 00:20:12,065
Caffeine.

327
00:20:13,685 --> 00:20:16,975
But yeah, I think...

328
00:20:17,417 --> 00:20:23,437
So having the awareness was significant
for sure but this is something that I've

329
00:20:23,437 --> 00:20:25,547
devised with the work that I do now.

330
00:20:25,547 --> 00:20:29,557
I have a quote, this little saying that I
give to people all the time because I've

331
00:20:29,557 --> 00:20:39,551
written on my bathroom wall and it's
BELIEVING + BEGINNING = BECOMING.

332
00:20:39,551 --> 00:20:41,483
Say that again, I like that.

333
00:20:41,705 --> 00:20:46,305
Believing, I'm mad into alliteration me
Hamish, so anything with alliteration or

334
00:20:46,305 --> 00:20:50,005
acronyms or little things like pithy
things that you can remember.

335
00:20:50,005 --> 00:20:54,485
Believing plus beginning equals becoming.

336
00:20:55,365 --> 00:20:56,105
Right?

337
00:20:56,105 --> 00:21:02,285
So for me to change my identity to become
somebody who's alcohol free, who's sober,

338
00:21:02,285 --> 00:21:07,265
who's whatever I want to call myself, I
had to first of all believe I could.

339
00:21:07,465 --> 00:21:10,121
And that's the first step with any
awareness.

340
00:21:10,121 --> 00:21:12,281
and any habit change.

341
00:21:12,281 --> 00:21:17,791
So I had to do things like, I'm just
looking at the books that are around me.

342
00:21:17,791 --> 00:21:18,701
Do you know what I mean?

343
00:21:18,701 --> 00:21:23,281
These are the books that I, well, this is
a new one, but these are the types of

344
00:21:23,281 --> 00:21:31,521
books that I read that helped me believe
that I had the ability to, these are the

345
00:21:31,521 --> 00:21:33,441
people who went before me.

346
00:21:33,441 --> 00:21:38,817
So the first stage was doing that and,

347
00:21:38,953 --> 00:21:43,863
In conjunction with that, I immersed
myself in podcasts.

348
00:21:43,863 --> 00:21:48,943
So I went on my podcast app and I just put
in Sober Podcasts.

349
00:21:48,943 --> 00:21:55,613
And I found this woman actually, Laura or
Holly Whitaker, who co -hosted a podcast

350
00:21:55,613 --> 00:21:58,673
with Laura McCown called The Home Podcast.

351
00:21:58,673 --> 00:22:03,333
Two women of a certain age, same age as
me, very like me, into the same stuff.

352
00:22:03,333 --> 00:22:04,853
And they were like my mates.

353
00:22:04,853 --> 00:22:07,497
And I just carried them around with me
everywhere.

354
00:22:07,497 --> 00:22:12,677
And what I was doing was I was rewiring my
brain I now know.

355
00:22:12,677 --> 00:22:14,447
And the other book was this Naked Mind.

356
00:22:14,447 --> 00:22:18,057
I don't have it because I've given it away
to so many people over the years.

357
00:22:18,057 --> 00:22:24,377
But that was all about the neuroscience of
addiction and habit change.

358
00:22:25,057 --> 00:22:29,737
And once I started to realize the
neuroscience behind it, it was a no

359
00:22:29,737 --> 00:22:32,017
-brainer, to excuse the pun, but it was.

360
00:22:32,017 --> 00:22:33,317
It was like, what?

361
00:22:33,317 --> 00:22:35,017
This is mind -blowing.

362
00:22:35,197 --> 00:22:35,913
And...

363
00:22:35,913 --> 00:22:42,053
That really helped me in the early days to
really face into it because when I knew

364
00:22:42,053 --> 00:22:46,733
that these people had suffered, that they
were struggling, that when I read their

365
00:22:46,733 --> 00:22:52,373
stories, when I borrowed their belief,
which is what I say to people now, I'll

366
00:22:52,373 --> 00:22:56,833
say, if anyone's doing something like
giving up smoking or giving up drinking or

367
00:22:56,833 --> 00:23:00,693
working with me with habit change, I'll
say, borrow my belief until you have yours

368
00:23:00,693 --> 00:23:02,633
and immerse yourself.

369
00:23:02,633 --> 00:23:04,013
Borrow everybody's belief.

370
00:23:04,013 --> 00:23:06,187
Stand on the shoulders of giants.

371
00:23:06,249 --> 00:23:09,409
Because once you stand on the shoulders of
giants, that's it.

372
00:23:09,409 --> 00:23:13,569
You can actually get their lived
experience.

373
00:23:13,569 --> 00:23:19,589
Lucy Rocker, watching her, I read her book
and I joined her website, I joined

374
00:23:19,589 --> 00:23:21,709
Soberistas, it was called.

375
00:23:21,769 --> 00:23:26,169
And then I started to check in every day
and I started to read the blogs of the

376
00:23:26,169 --> 00:23:28,009
women who had gone before me.

377
00:23:28,009 --> 00:23:31,969
And I was seeing that they were living
these amazing lives and that they were

378
00:23:31,969 --> 00:23:34,729
talking about the joys of sobriety.

379
00:23:34,729 --> 00:23:36,419
There was no shame.

380
00:23:36,425 --> 00:23:39,415
There was no like, you're broken, you
know?

381
00:23:39,415 --> 00:23:46,385
So I had all of that to bolster me and I
knew that when I had to face into the deep

382
00:23:46,385 --> 00:23:52,405
work and the deep work had to be done
because you had to really deconstruct what

383
00:23:52,405 --> 00:23:57,385
was it that brought you to the place where
you needed this substance.

384
00:23:57,385 --> 00:24:01,705
You needed a substance to numb out and to
sit with it.

385
00:24:01,705 --> 00:24:05,737
So for me, one of the biggest...

386
00:24:05,737 --> 00:24:10,377
tools that I had already started to use
before I did any of this was the morning

387
00:24:10,377 --> 00:24:13,037
pages from the artist's way.

388
00:24:13,397 --> 00:24:16,177
And I don't know if you've heard of Julia
Cameron's Artist's Way.

389
00:24:16,177 --> 00:24:21,537
You might have if you, but I think, do
you, have you ever done any of that work

390
00:24:21,537 --> 00:24:22,293
before?

391
00:24:22,293 --> 00:24:23,663
I can't remember where I met her.

392
00:24:23,663 --> 00:24:25,863
But I think what she does is fabulous.

393
00:24:25,863 --> 00:24:30,343
And I do the morning pages not every day,
but probably three, four days a week, I

394
00:24:30,343 --> 00:24:34,903
will I will sit down there and write down
whatever's going through my head and my

395
00:24:34,903 --> 00:24:35,723
heart.

396
00:24:35,743 --> 00:24:37,443
And sometimes it's repeatable.

397
00:24:37,443 --> 00:24:39,943
Sometimes it's not but it is very
cathartic.

398
00:24:39,943 --> 00:24:40,585
Yeah.

399
00:24:40,585 --> 00:24:45,485
It's amazing, well, but the more pages,
for listeners, it's three sides of A4,

400
00:24:45,485 --> 00:24:48,395
mental puke, I call it, just puke on a
page, yeah?

401
00:24:48,395 --> 00:24:53,605
But it's three sides of A4, every day,
show up to the page, free hand, free

402
00:24:53,605 --> 00:24:56,765
association, just shite, essentially.

403
00:24:56,785 --> 00:25:01,585
But I had been doing that for years
because I was a blocked creative.

404
00:25:01,585 --> 00:25:03,185
I didn't know I was a blocked creative.

405
00:25:03,185 --> 00:25:04,895
I always wanted to express myself.

406
00:25:04,895 --> 00:25:08,073
I did English in university, I did a
master's in journalism.

407
00:25:08,073 --> 00:25:11,253
but there was this limiting belief that I
wasn't good enough.

408
00:25:11,533 --> 00:25:17,333
And when I started to unravel the limiting
beliefs, I realised there was a limiting

409
00:25:17,333 --> 00:25:21,113
belief, because I'm a woman, limiting
belief, you know, being Irish, being

410
00:25:21,113 --> 00:25:26,833
English, what am I, identity wise, I had
to unravel that and unpick that.

411
00:25:27,033 --> 00:25:32,553
I'd go back to years of bullying,
loneliness in relationships and things

412
00:25:32,553 --> 00:25:33,113
like that.

413
00:25:33,113 --> 00:25:37,481
And once I started to unpick this and
then, you know, real...

414
00:25:37,481 --> 00:25:44,321
Go back to like inherited trauma from your
parents and their stories and their

415
00:25:44,321 --> 00:25:45,581
struggles.

416
00:25:46,021 --> 00:25:47,541
It was a lot to sit with.

417
00:25:47,541 --> 00:25:49,041
It was a lot to sit with.

418
00:25:49,041 --> 00:25:52,121
So that's when I started to get counseling
as well.

419
00:25:52,121 --> 00:25:53,661
And that helped me a lot.

420
00:25:53,661 --> 00:25:57,261
But the morning pages, it was through the
morning pages that I knew, in fact, I've

421
00:25:57,261 --> 00:25:59,101
got it up here, the artist's way.

422
00:25:59,101 --> 00:26:04,021
This isn't just a look at all my books
kind of podcast, but it's because I'm

423
00:26:04,021 --> 00:26:05,641
sitting when I'm sitting with the parents.

424
00:26:05,641 --> 00:26:06,665
I love it.

425
00:26:06,665 --> 00:26:10,425
Look, it's just full, full, full of notes,
full of notes.

426
00:26:10,525 --> 00:26:16,165
But that, that was, that was life changing
for me because it was in the artist's way,

427
00:26:16,165 --> 00:26:19,245
morning pages, that I realized there's a
pattern here.

428
00:26:19,245 --> 00:26:21,785
I'm constantly berating myself.

429
00:26:21,785 --> 00:26:26,665
I'm constantly berating myself for not
doing what I say I'm going to do.

430
00:26:26,825 --> 00:26:29,345
And what I said I wanted to do was not
drink.

431
00:26:29,345 --> 00:26:30,985
I won't drink tonight.

432
00:26:30,985 --> 00:26:32,405
Not never, not ever.

433
00:26:32,405 --> 00:26:36,073
And when I was breaking those promises, I
thought, hold on, there's a, have I?

434
00:26:36,073 --> 00:26:42,413
problem with but no surely not and then it
was when I saw Lucy Rocker and I learned

435
00:26:42,413 --> 00:26:47,213
about gray area drinking that I realized
that I did but yeah the first to go back

436
00:26:47,213 --> 00:26:55,433
to your original question the early days
the early days were I think they it was

437
00:26:55,433 --> 00:27:02,921
kind of like a pendulum I'd go from
extreme highs where and those high

438
00:27:02,921 --> 00:27:11,141
I do really feel that part of my drinking
was a way of self -medicating my own kind

439
00:27:11,141 --> 00:27:18,441
of hyperactivity that I had as a child and
as a teenager and sometimes a bit as an

440
00:27:18,441 --> 00:27:19,381
adult as well.

441
00:27:19,381 --> 00:27:26,001
Because the highs, I would do really crazy
things like I would run in, I remember I

442
00:27:26,001 --> 00:27:29,981
would run in and I'd grab like the head
when I was teaching in the corridor and

443
00:27:29,981 --> 00:27:30,537
go.

444
00:27:30,537 --> 00:27:33,017
I've just heard this amazing podcast.

445
00:27:33,017 --> 00:27:34,977
I want to do training on it.

446
00:27:34,977 --> 00:27:36,477
And you're wild -eyed.

447
00:27:36,477 --> 00:27:40,297
And they just very calmly go, that's
great, Liz, thanks very much.

448
00:27:40,297 --> 00:27:41,317
More calm than that.

449
00:27:41,317 --> 00:27:45,457
When I think back, I think, my God, was
that my sobriety?

450
00:27:45,457 --> 00:27:47,637
Was that my level of awareness?

451
00:27:47,637 --> 00:27:50,997
Or is that just because I was no longer
hungover?

452
00:27:50,997 --> 00:27:52,577
I just had more energy.

453
00:27:52,577 --> 00:27:53,597
I don't know.

454
00:27:53,597 --> 00:27:59,369
But then you'd have complete lows as well
because there was the...

455
00:27:59,369 --> 00:28:03,229
You know, the issue of FOMO, fear of
missing out.

456
00:28:03,229 --> 00:28:06,889
There's the issue of, remember, we're
social animals, we're pack animals.

457
00:28:06,889 --> 00:28:12,169
So if you come away from the herd, if the
entire world is drinking and the entire

458
00:28:12,169 --> 00:28:17,749
world was drinking and you come away, you
know, you have to change your family

459
00:28:17,749 --> 00:28:18,549
dynamic.

460
00:28:18,549 --> 00:28:21,409
You have to change your intimate
relationships.

461
00:28:21,409 --> 00:28:24,849
You have to change your relationships with
your friendship groups.

462
00:28:24,849 --> 00:28:28,777
In some ways, even if it's not overt and
very obvious.

463
00:28:28,777 --> 00:28:33,697
So that level of challenges is constantly
there and it can become a really lonely

464
00:28:33,697 --> 00:28:34,557
place.

465
00:28:34,557 --> 00:28:39,377
So I was thankful that I found Soberistas
and I was about 50 days sober at that

466
00:28:39,377 --> 00:28:40,397
stage.

467
00:28:40,417 --> 00:28:43,017
And I, well, I was actually, I tell a lie.

468
00:28:43,017 --> 00:28:46,537
I started to interact with Soberistas when
I was 50 days.

469
00:28:46,537 --> 00:28:53,877
I've been on Soberistas for 10 years, but
in my kind of crazy believing situation, I

470
00:28:53,877 --> 00:28:54,897
wasn't ever beginning.

471
00:28:54,897 --> 00:28:57,909
I was constantly in that believing state.

472
00:28:57,961 --> 00:29:02,041
where I was like, and I remember this, I
said with my friend who was over visiting

473
00:29:02,041 --> 00:29:06,581
from Ireland one year, as we were drinking
wine and smoking fags in the garden.

474
00:29:06,581 --> 00:29:11,981
And I was like, I get these, I get these
emails from Lucy Rocker and Soap Vistas

475
00:29:11,981 --> 00:29:15,601
because, you know, this is terrible, this
booze, it's terrible.

476
00:29:15,601 --> 00:29:17,891
And she's like, yeah, yeah, I know, but
I'm not gonna stop.

477
00:29:17,891 --> 00:29:21,061
And I was like, I am, I'm actually
researching it, it's amazing.

478
00:29:21,061 --> 00:29:22,301
I carried on.

479
00:29:22,301 --> 00:29:26,825
I was so deluded, it went on for years.

480
00:29:26,825 --> 00:29:30,045
But because I was getting emails from
sober visitors, I kind of thought I was

481
00:29:30,045 --> 00:29:38,365
sober curious at least, but it was, yeah,
I think knowing that these people were

482
00:29:38,365 --> 00:29:43,765
there, knowing that these people had done
it, and then actually attending a few

483
00:29:43,765 --> 00:29:50,065
meetups and meeting these people in the
flesh, because on the site, to protect our

484
00:29:50,065 --> 00:29:52,073
anonymity, we have...

485
00:29:52,073 --> 00:29:53,433
you know, different names.

486
00:29:53,433 --> 00:29:58,293
So it was like going to a 007 conference,
you know, where you're like, hi, who are

487
00:29:58,293 --> 00:29:59,073
you?

488
00:29:59,073 --> 00:30:04,313
My friend, her name on the site is Taking
My Life Back.

489
00:30:04,313 --> 00:30:09,053
And we went to this conference, not
conference, we went to like a meetup and

490
00:30:09,053 --> 00:30:13,693
she assumed everybody downstairs was part
of our social group, you know, women of a

491
00:30:13,693 --> 00:30:14,601
certain age.

492
00:30:14,601 --> 00:30:17,961
soberistas and she approached some women
and she was nearly about to say, hi, I'm

493
00:30:17,961 --> 00:30:19,011
taking my life back.

494
00:30:19,011 --> 00:30:21,581
And she realized they weren't part of our
group.

495
00:30:21,941 --> 00:30:24,381
She's like, good for you love.

496
00:30:24,521 --> 00:30:26,961
I'm glad you're taking your life back.

497
00:30:26,961 --> 00:30:30,881
But yeah, it was, it was, it was extreme.

498
00:30:31,141 --> 00:30:38,461
But because I had the support network and
I called it my sober tribe, you know,

499
00:30:38,461 --> 00:30:44,141
because I had them and because I was
checking in twice a day, if I had a wobble

500
00:30:44,141 --> 00:30:44,457
like,

501
00:30:44,457 --> 00:30:51,757
post and just say I've got to go to a hen
do I'm freaking out it's an island it's

502
00:30:51,757 --> 00:30:57,157
gonna be booze soaked what do I do help me
out and then slowly and gradually I

503
00:30:57,157 --> 00:31:02,437
started to find support networks in real
life people who live near me some who are

504
00:31:02,437 --> 00:31:08,657
now my dearest and nearest friends you
know and that that really helped but I was

505
00:31:08,657 --> 00:31:11,433
lucky because that believing part

506
00:31:11,753 --> 00:31:17,573
and the beginning, you know, I was able to
begin doing the work and understand that

507
00:31:17,573 --> 00:31:22,913
when I was faced with the difficult parts,
when I was faced with the parts of myself

508
00:31:22,913 --> 00:31:28,673
that I might have buried, the darker
sides, the parts that were shameful, the

509
00:31:28,673 --> 00:31:35,313
parts that I felt so guilty about in my
drinking days, when they came up, I was

510
00:31:35,313 --> 00:31:39,611
able to reach out and I was instantly
embraced.

511
00:31:39,881 --> 00:31:46,001
So I have so much thanks to Lucy Rocker,
so much thanks to Soberistas and the

512
00:31:46,001 --> 00:31:50,621
Soberista community, so much so that I
went on and studied them for my master's

513
00:31:50,621 --> 00:31:51,581
thesis.

514
00:31:52,001 --> 00:32:00,341
That's what I did, I did social connection
in online communities because they really

515
00:32:00,341 --> 00:32:04,221
save lives, that group.

516
00:32:04,221 --> 00:32:07,609
And there's about 80 ,000 people on that
group now.

517
00:32:07,881 --> 00:32:08,901
They saved lives.

518
00:32:08,901 --> 00:32:14,381
And I was on it for COVID as people were
joining and it burgeoned during COVID

519
00:32:14,381 --> 00:32:22,181
because so many people had, you know, been
trapped with their four walls, drinking,

520
00:32:22,221 --> 00:32:24,181
just escalated.

521
00:32:24,181 --> 00:32:29,641
So it was really, I think it's such a
wonderful, wonderful community.

522
00:32:29,641 --> 00:32:33,241
But yeah, that's for me, I was very lucky.

523
00:32:33,521 --> 00:32:38,177
I had that and I had those people and I
had the...

524
00:32:38,217 --> 00:32:40,297
the lived experience of so many others.

525
00:32:40,297 --> 00:32:42,607
And that's why I'm so passionate about
sharing it today.

526
00:32:42,607 --> 00:32:47,577
I'm so passionate about reaching people
and giving them an option.

527
00:32:47,577 --> 00:32:53,817
They don't have to get to that crucial
stage of life or death before they choose

528
00:32:53,817 --> 00:32:55,847
that alcohol is something that we do.

529
00:32:55,847 --> 00:32:58,997
It's a life -storied choice as much as
anything else.

530
00:32:59,157 --> 00:33:04,277
You can stop it, just like you can stop
drinking coffee, but it's not that easy.

531
00:33:04,277 --> 00:33:05,347
That's the other thing.

532
00:33:05,347 --> 00:33:07,305
When you understand...

533
00:33:07,305 --> 00:33:11,665
that you choose your hard and that's, you
know, Glennon Doyle Melton.

534
00:33:11,665 --> 00:33:15,925
That's something that she said, another
person I used to follow and still do.

535
00:33:15,925 --> 00:33:18,285
But she said, you choose your hard.

536
00:33:18,365 --> 00:33:21,645
You know, it's hard to stay drinking.

537
00:33:21,645 --> 00:33:26,085
It's hard to give up mate, but you choose
your hard.

538
00:33:26,685 --> 00:33:31,945
And that hard, that's the hard you choose
is the hard that actually shows, enables

539
00:33:31,945 --> 00:33:33,405
you to grow.

540
00:33:33,585 --> 00:33:34,849
And that's...

541
00:33:34,889 --> 00:33:39,103
the significance, I think, of that piece.

542
00:33:39,103 --> 00:33:43,263
I'd never considered the choosing your
hard, but it makes sense because it was

543
00:33:43,263 --> 00:33:45,483
hard.

544
00:33:45,483 --> 00:33:49,243
lying, going to different bottle stores,
pretending, assuming they wouldn't

545
00:33:49,243 --> 00:33:50,383
recognise me.

546
00:33:50,383 --> 00:34:00,373
I mean, go figure.

547
00:34:00,373 --> 00:34:04,503
but that makes complete sense because it
is hard work drinking, getting up, hung

548
00:34:04,503 --> 00:34:07,647
over, feeling shit, struggling.

549
00:34:07,647 --> 00:34:12,067
not working properly, compromising, lying,
deceiving.

550
00:34:12,067 --> 00:34:14,307
I mean, it was horrible.

551
00:34:14,487 --> 00:34:16,107
It was...

552
00:34:16,107 --> 00:34:16,341
Yeah.

553
00:34:16,341 --> 00:34:19,121
And it's not just that, it's the mental
energy of the thoughts.

554
00:34:19,121 --> 00:34:24,041
So with me it was, okay, so I'll go to
work, I'll do my job, blah, blah, blah,

555
00:34:24,041 --> 00:34:24,541
blah.

556
00:34:24,541 --> 00:34:27,641
I'm training for a marathon, so therefore
there's nothing wrong, nothing to see

557
00:34:27,641 --> 00:34:27,781
here.

558
00:34:27,781 --> 00:34:30,201
Look at me, I'm superhuman, hello.

559
00:34:30,201 --> 00:34:34,581
Or I go to yoga, I can't have a problem
with alcohol.

560
00:34:34,581 --> 00:34:39,461
It doesn't matter that I'm going to yoga
wearing a t -shirt that says I do yoga

561
00:34:39,461 --> 00:34:40,501
because I like wine.

562
00:34:40,501 --> 00:34:44,425
I had a t -shirt, I had, and I've posted
it before.

563
00:34:44,425 --> 00:34:47,275
I have a running vest that I thought was
hilarious.

564
00:34:47,275 --> 00:34:50,505
It says, I run because I really like wine.

565
00:34:50,505 --> 00:34:56,005
And I was so absolutely blown away by this
running vest that I bought it for my

566
00:34:56,005 --> 00:34:58,795
sister -in -law and my sister, because I
thought it was hilarious, wasn't it?

567
00:34:58,795 --> 00:35:00,445
Look at us, aren't we, guys?

568
00:35:00,445 --> 00:35:03,385
And we are so indoctrinated.

569
00:35:03,625 --> 00:35:08,205
So from the minute that I was like, from
the minute I decided I wasn't going to

570
00:35:08,205 --> 00:35:09,855
drink, then it became the issue.

571
00:35:09,855 --> 00:35:12,361
That's when it took up all my time,
because then it was like...

572
00:35:12,361 --> 00:35:13,271
I'm not gonna drink tonight.

573
00:35:13,271 --> 00:35:14,791
It's Friday, but I'm not gonna drink
tonight.

574
00:35:14,791 --> 00:35:16,021
I'm gonna be prepared.

575
00:35:16,021 --> 00:35:20,731
And then I'd be like, but I do need to
stop in the Aster on the way home.

576
00:35:20,731 --> 00:35:23,581
So I'll just go in the Aster, but I won't
go down the wine aisle.

577
00:35:24,421 --> 00:35:25,281
I'll tell you what I'll do.

578
00:35:25,281 --> 00:35:29,081
I'll go in and I'll just buy the few bits
for the dinner.

579
00:35:29,081 --> 00:35:31,241
But I did say I'd make spaghetti
bolognese.

580
00:35:31,241 --> 00:35:32,581
That's always the one.

581
00:35:32,581 --> 00:35:34,061
There's always one.

582
00:35:34,061 --> 00:35:36,121
That was my biggest excuse.

583
00:35:36,121 --> 00:35:37,661
And I was like, right, I'll just go down.

584
00:35:37,661 --> 00:35:38,951
I'll just get some for the dinner.

585
00:35:38,951 --> 00:35:40,241
I'll just get an extra bottle of Chelsea.

586
00:35:40,241 --> 00:35:41,449
So you're telling yourself.

587
00:35:41,449 --> 00:35:46,349
all these internal like dialogues, it's
exhausting.

588
00:35:46,889 --> 00:35:50,789
So to be able to just take a step back and
go, my God.

589
00:35:50,789 --> 00:35:55,209
And as you say, waking up and dragging a
dead dog of a hangover behind you

590
00:35:55,209 --> 00:35:56,489
everywhere you went.

591
00:35:56,489 --> 00:36:00,359
I mean, it's like Banquo's Ghost walking
behind you everywhere you go.

592
00:36:00,359 --> 00:36:03,819
It's like, here's your hangover.

593
00:36:03,819 --> 00:36:05,749
Here I am, nothing to see here.

594
00:36:05,749 --> 00:36:09,277
But like behind you is this spectre of the
night before.

595
00:36:09,769 --> 00:36:15,089
And as you say, the lying, the lies,
waking up saying, I'm actually fine.

596
00:36:15,089 --> 00:36:17,349
People are going, are you okay?

597
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:21,709
Because you said a lot last night, you
confessed, you said blah, blah, blah,

598
00:36:21,709 --> 00:36:22,019
blah.

599
00:36:22,019 --> 00:36:23,229
You puked your heart out.

600
00:36:23,229 --> 00:36:24,359
Or are you okay?

601
00:36:24,359 --> 00:36:26,048
You posted something last night.

602
00:36:26,048 --> 00:36:29,389
And then it's all like this whole nothing
to see here.

603
00:36:29,389 --> 00:36:30,429
It's absolutely fine.

604
00:36:30,429 --> 00:36:33,209
No, fine, yeah, fine, fine, yeah.

605
00:36:33,389 --> 00:36:35,509
It's a nonsense.

606
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:38,953
For me, it was death by a thousand cuts.

607
00:36:38,953 --> 00:36:44,433
It was death by a thousand, just ch -ch
-ch -ch -ch -ch -chipping away.

608
00:36:45,173 --> 00:36:50,733
and I've, I've written a little blog about
the opposite of that, which is death by a

609
00:36:50,733 --> 00:36:56,953
thousand sparks or life by a thousand
sparks, because the early days, it was,

610
00:36:56,953 --> 00:36:58,993
you needed the glimmers.

611
00:36:59,073 --> 00:37:03,693
You needed that, you know, that 10 days in
a row.

612
00:37:03,693 --> 00:37:04,893
Boom.

613
00:37:05,013 --> 00:37:07,313
That, that became 30 days.

614
00:37:07,313 --> 00:37:08,641
That's a month.

615
00:37:09,289 --> 00:37:16,189
Yeah, that's like three, three weekends,
four weekends, weekends, first weekend.

616
00:37:16,189 --> 00:37:17,559
For me, it was weekends.

617
00:37:17,559 --> 00:37:20,309
They were very difficult hurdles.

618
00:37:20,448 --> 00:37:23,709
But yeah, they're lies, they're lies.

619
00:37:23,709 --> 00:37:27,549
And I think that's the key gift.

620
00:37:27,549 --> 00:37:31,629
You know, when we talk about drinking and
not drinking, that for me was the

621
00:37:31,629 --> 00:37:32,809
authenticity.

622
00:37:33,149 --> 00:37:37,033
You know, because I thought I was
authentic when I was drinking.

623
00:37:37,033 --> 00:37:43,313
in my cups when I would share my truth to
anybody who'd be like, actually, I don't

624
00:37:43,313 --> 00:37:44,513
really want to hear that Liz.

625
00:37:44,513 --> 00:37:47,913
It's just kind of being obnoxious more
than anything.

626
00:37:47,913 --> 00:37:51,573
But in my head, I was like, no, I'm going
to say it.

627
00:37:51,573 --> 00:37:54,373
And that's not authenticity.

628
00:37:54,653 --> 00:38:02,815
That's, you know, that's just been an
asshole.

629
00:38:02,815 --> 00:38:05,615
You really wonder, don't you?

630
00:38:05,615 --> 00:38:07,695
You wonder what it was all about.

631
00:38:09,475 --> 00:38:14,935
I didn't have a community like that, but I
did AA and NA for a while and I found that

632
00:38:14,935 --> 00:38:18,695
support, I found it really helpful.

633
00:38:18,695 --> 00:38:20,915
I didn't subscribe to every aspect of it.

634
00:38:20,915 --> 00:38:28,279
I don't like the fact that, hi, I'm Hamish
and I'm an alcoholic because I...

635
00:38:28,895 --> 00:38:33,715
I know words have power and if I'm going
to call myself something negative, it's

636
00:38:33,715 --> 00:38:36,435
going to sit on my shoulders and go, oi.

637
00:38:36,535 --> 00:38:42,335
So, you know, I don't agree with that, but
I found it tremendously helpful.

638
00:38:42,335 --> 00:38:45,355
And you obviously did with the people that
you were with.

639
00:38:46,235 --> 00:38:52,455
How did being sober and staying sober
change your relationships with family

640
00:38:52,455 --> 00:38:53,405
members and friends?

641
00:38:53,405 --> 00:39:04,969
I mean, you said you've...

642
00:39:04,969 --> 00:39:13,209
Yeah, I found, so I had a new tribe, which
is great as a middle -aged woman, to kind

643
00:39:13,209 --> 00:39:14,889
of find new friends.

644
00:39:14,889 --> 00:39:18,879
You know, I love making friends and I love
people.

645
00:39:18,879 --> 00:39:21,129
I get energy from people.

646
00:39:21,129 --> 00:39:23,069
And I think that's why I ended up
teaching.

647
00:39:23,069 --> 00:39:25,029
That's why I loved being a waitress.

648
00:39:25,029 --> 00:39:27,209
I loved being a barmaid.

649
00:39:27,209 --> 00:39:33,189
All of my jobs in the past when I've been
growing up, because I worked in a bar when

650
00:39:33,189 --> 00:39:35,569
I was 15 in my auntie's bar.

651
00:39:35,569 --> 00:39:40,729
So all of the way up, I've always had jobs
where I've interacted with people and I

652
00:39:40,729 --> 00:39:45,029
just love that social connection and it
nourishes me.

653
00:39:45,029 --> 00:39:48,389
And I suppose I am an extrovert.

654
00:39:48,829 --> 00:39:55,777
So finding that social, that new group of
friends, that was very...

655
00:39:56,457 --> 00:39:58,137
really empowering.

656
00:39:59,017 --> 00:40:04,977
My traditional friends, friends I'd grown
up with, I think some friends found it

657
00:40:04,977 --> 00:40:05,387
hard.

658
00:40:05,387 --> 00:40:10,917
Some friends who were, I was very much the
party girl.

659
00:40:10,917 --> 00:40:13,897
I was very much like, Liz is going out.

660
00:40:13,897 --> 00:40:15,207
Jesus, it'll be a big one then.

661
00:40:15,207 --> 00:40:19,557
Do you know, I was that one where you
rolled the eyes and I was, I was the one

662
00:40:19,557 --> 00:40:24,237
who'd sneak off to the loo and come back
with a bottle of wine or round of shots.

663
00:40:24,681 --> 00:40:26,641
I was always pushing for more, more, more.

664
00:40:26,641 --> 00:40:27,611
Let's go to the next place.

665
00:40:27,611 --> 00:40:28,881
Let's go more, more, more.

666
00:40:28,881 --> 00:40:32,661
And then people kind of got a bit bored
with that sometimes.

667
00:40:32,661 --> 00:40:35,361
Or I'd get bored if people weren't
drinking fast enough and I'd find other

668
00:40:35,361 --> 00:40:37,461
people, I'd go off.

669
00:40:38,321 --> 00:40:40,601
So they were kind of used to that.

670
00:40:40,601 --> 00:40:46,921
So those friends, friends I've had over
the years who know that I drink like that

671
00:40:46,921 --> 00:40:51,601
and don't necessarily, because there was a
few groups of friends who on my first

672
00:40:51,601 --> 00:40:52,553
Christmas.

673
00:40:52,553 --> 00:40:57,153
when I wasn't drinking and we went out for
kind of like a work -due, they elected not

674
00:40:57,153 --> 00:40:58,233
to drink.

675
00:40:58,233 --> 00:40:59,913
And I just thought, that is lovely.

676
00:40:59,913 --> 00:41:02,153
That is just so great, isn't it?

677
00:41:02,153 --> 00:41:03,793
I didn't say anything.

678
00:41:03,793 --> 00:41:05,063
But I was like, no, I'm not drinking.

679
00:41:05,063 --> 00:41:10,773
And I realized, I'm the one who's
instigating most of the heavy drinking in

680
00:41:10,773 --> 00:41:12,193
this group.

681
00:41:12,213 --> 00:41:17,233
Because they sat there and they drank
water really happily.

682
00:41:17,333 --> 00:41:20,293
And we, you know, we did a karaoke.

683
00:41:20,425 --> 00:41:24,945
and it was a Christmas karaoke and we all
sang and we've still got really gorgeous

684
00:41:24,945 --> 00:41:31,605
pictures of it and so a lot of my friends
were really supportive.

685
00:41:31,725 --> 00:41:35,505
My sisters, my sister and my family at
home really supported.

686
00:41:35,505 --> 00:41:41,725
My mother who was having her hot toddies
every night suddenly stopped and didn't

687
00:41:41,725 --> 00:41:42,765
say a word.

688
00:41:42,765 --> 00:41:46,845
Didn't say a word until a year down the
line and said, no I don't drink that stuff

689
00:41:46,845 --> 00:41:47,647
at all.

690
00:41:48,617 --> 00:41:52,337
And every time I'd mention it, she'd say,
fair play to you, fair play.

691
00:41:52,337 --> 00:41:53,517
Good, good.

692
00:41:53,517 --> 00:41:58,997
And so there was a very subtle kind of
influence on some people.

693
00:41:59,397 --> 00:42:04,697
There was also that awkwardness of the,
Liz is here.

694
00:42:04,697 --> 00:42:07,017
Let's just watch our drinking.

695
00:42:07,017 --> 00:42:10,217
And then it was almost like belt loosening
when I'd leave.

696
00:42:10,217 --> 00:42:13,937
I felt that there was a bit of an
inhalation.

697
00:42:13,951 --> 00:42:14,377
Hmm.

698
00:42:14,377 --> 00:42:19,317
when I'd be around, nothing was spoken
about, but it was very much the elephant

699
00:42:19,317 --> 00:42:20,577
in the room.

700
00:42:20,577 --> 00:42:25,737
And even if I do, and I do still find that
with some people, that some people, some

701
00:42:25,737 --> 00:42:28,757
people feel they have to ask, they'll say,
do you mind if I have a glass of wine?

702
00:42:28,757 --> 00:42:29,617
I'm like, I don't care.

703
00:42:29,617 --> 00:42:31,457
I really don't care.

704
00:42:31,457 --> 00:42:32,777
You know, you wouldn't say, do you mind?

705
00:42:32,777 --> 00:42:35,877
Well, you would say if they're having it
in your room, do you mind if I have a fag?

706
00:42:35,877 --> 00:42:39,677
But if they went outside for a cigarette,
they wouldn't say, you don't mind if I,

707
00:42:39,677 --> 00:42:42,217
but so I think.

708
00:42:42,217 --> 00:42:45,717
that it was quite difficult to navigate.

709
00:42:45,717 --> 00:42:49,337
And I still am navigating at Amish, if I'm
honest.

710
00:42:49,337 --> 00:42:56,117
Because every time I go home to Ireland,
it's like a different world, you know,

711
00:42:56,117 --> 00:43:04,097
rural Ireland and the way alcohol is
celebrated and everybody talks about it.

712
00:43:04,097 --> 00:43:08,681
Young kids who were training or drinking
after it, they go to the pub.

713
00:43:08,681 --> 00:43:13,981
And the pub is important, social
connection is important, small villages

714
00:43:13,981 --> 00:43:16,461
need some kind of social glue.

715
00:43:16,901 --> 00:43:23,281
But I just wish to God it wasn't so booze
-fuelled because we still need to rewrite

716
00:43:23,281 --> 00:43:27,481
these stories that we tell ourselves, that
we need this.

717
00:43:27,681 --> 00:43:32,801
And do you know what I find really
difficult is the fact that you don't want

718
00:43:32,801 --> 00:43:36,841
to sound preachy, but it's like Plato's
cave.

719
00:43:36,841 --> 00:43:38,153
You know the parable of

720
00:43:38,153 --> 00:43:39,613
Plato's Cave.

721
00:43:39,613 --> 00:43:43,513
I learned this when I was, this really hit
me when I was a kid.

722
00:43:43,513 --> 00:43:47,393
I did classical studies for my leaving
syrup when I was in school, right?

723
00:43:47,393 --> 00:43:50,993
So I was about 17 when I found this story
out and it's in the Republic.

724
00:43:50,993 --> 00:43:51,873
We did Plato.

725
00:43:51,873 --> 00:43:54,533
I was like, wow, how amazing is that?

726
00:43:54,673 --> 00:44:00,313
And Plato's Cave, it's basically this,
he's talking about reality and he's

727
00:44:00,313 --> 00:44:04,493
talking about kind of higher awareness, I
suppose.

728
00:44:04,493 --> 00:44:06,249
And he says that,

729
00:44:06,249 --> 00:44:10,589
You know, we're like, we're in a cave,
mankind, we're in a cave.

730
00:44:10,789 --> 00:44:14,929
And he said, it's like these prisoners who
are in a cave and all they can see,

731
00:44:14,929 --> 00:44:17,349
they're sitting in the cave and they're
chained.

732
00:44:17,349 --> 00:44:23,749
And all they can see, their reality,
there's a fire and there's shadows and all

733
00:44:23,749 --> 00:44:27,809
they can see are the puppeteers and the
shadows on the wall.

734
00:44:27,809 --> 00:44:32,869
The shadows on the wall of the things
moving, that is their reality.

735
00:44:32,869 --> 00:44:36,105
And one day one of the prisoners breaks
free.

736
00:44:36,105 --> 00:44:41,625
and he crawls out of the cave and he goes
out into the light and he pokes his head

737
00:44:41,625 --> 00:44:46,965
out and he gets blinded first by the sun
because it's just so bright and he's been

738
00:44:46,965 --> 00:44:48,325
in the cave for so long.

739
00:44:48,325 --> 00:44:53,865
But then suddenly his eyes adjust and he
starts to see shapes and he starts to see

740
00:44:53,865 --> 00:44:59,105
what looked like the shapes that were on
the wall downstairs are now actual horses

741
00:44:59,105 --> 00:45:05,321
and men and women and various flowers and
birds and trees.

742
00:45:05,321 --> 00:45:07,751
And he's like, wow, this is it.

743
00:45:07,751 --> 00:45:09,581
This is the reality.

744
00:45:09,581 --> 00:45:14,201
So he goes back down into the cave and he
says to all his mates, I've just broken

745
00:45:14,201 --> 00:45:14,781
free.

746
00:45:14,781 --> 00:45:15,681
This isn't it.

747
00:45:15,681 --> 00:45:16,621
This isn't reality.

748
00:45:16,621 --> 00:45:17,701
That is.

749
00:45:17,701 --> 00:45:19,661
And they murder him.

750
00:45:20,821 --> 00:45:22,391
But that's how I felt.

751
00:45:22,391 --> 00:45:27,481
That's how I can sometimes feel when I get
passionate about this, because you go back

752
00:45:27,481 --> 00:45:29,541
and people go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

753
00:45:29,541 --> 00:45:34,261
Only the other day somebody said, isn't it
about time you gave the old talking about

754
00:45:34,261 --> 00:45:35,243
booze?

755
00:45:35,401 --> 00:45:36,821
bit of a rest.

756
00:45:36,821 --> 00:45:39,481
And I was like, no, I'm never going to.

757
00:45:39,481 --> 00:45:46,621
As long as we live in an alcocentric
society that glamorizes abnormal drinking.

758
00:45:47,481 --> 00:45:50,161
And it's not a judgmental thing.

759
00:45:50,161 --> 00:45:51,721
It's not a judgmental thing.

760
00:45:51,721 --> 00:45:57,881
It's just the awareness, you know, shaking
free the shackles of being stuck in that

761
00:45:57,881 --> 00:46:01,001
cave and just looking at the shadows.

762
00:46:01,161 --> 00:46:03,461
Cause that's me drinking down there.

763
00:46:03,461 --> 00:46:05,279
That's drinking Liz.

764
00:46:05,993 --> 00:46:09,513
Yeah, sober Liz is up there having the
crack in the sunshine.

765
00:46:09,733 --> 00:46:12,013
I'd much prefer to be up there, thank you
very much.

766
00:46:12,013 --> 00:46:16,353
But I want to bring you lot with me
without you killing me.

767
00:46:16,353 --> 00:46:16,993
Thank you.

768
00:46:16,993 --> 00:46:18,293
Because I'm not gonna...

769
00:46:18,293 --> 00:46:23,933
So that I sometimes feel when I share this
information that I can be shot down and I

770
00:46:23,933 --> 00:46:31,353
can be, you know, minimized and humiliated
and told, put in my place.

771
00:46:31,353 --> 00:46:36,163
And that's why I feel it's a really brave
thing to do to talk about this.

772
00:46:36,169 --> 00:46:41,689
I feel it's a really brave thing to do
because, you know, people want you to be

773
00:46:41,689 --> 00:46:47,099
that person who's rock bottom and that's
it, or normal like the rest of us.

774
00:46:47,099 --> 00:46:50,309
And if you're not drinking, then you've
got the problem.

775
00:46:50,309 --> 00:46:53,169
No, I'm sorry, it's a highly addictive
substance.

776
00:46:53,169 --> 00:46:57,389
And the more you practice doing something,
the more you get good at it.

777
00:46:58,189 --> 00:47:01,089
So I'm practicing doing the good stuff.

778
00:47:01,823 --> 00:47:03,163
Absolutely.

779
00:47:03,163 --> 00:47:06,903
And it is difficult because alcohol works.

780
00:47:06,903 --> 00:47:12,543
However, like any crutch that keeps you
up, they start to break and it does.

781
00:47:12,583 --> 00:47:16,191
And I think what you said there, it's so
important.

782
00:47:16,191 --> 00:47:18,655
And...

783
00:47:18,655 --> 00:47:26,315
I had to, when I broke out into the light,
I had to build a boat around myself and

784
00:47:26,315 --> 00:47:30,615
that was, I know that I feel crap when I
drink.

785
00:47:30,615 --> 00:47:35,355
I know that one isn't enough and a
thousand is too many or the other way

786
00:47:35,355 --> 00:47:36,395
around, doesn't matter.

787
00:47:36,395 --> 00:47:40,975
I know that if I have one, that's it.

788
00:47:40,975 --> 00:47:43,825
And I know how bloody hard it was to stop.

789
00:47:43,825 --> 00:47:45,815
So there's no way I'm going to do it.

790
00:47:45,815 --> 00:47:48,031
I don't like how my head...

791
00:47:48,031 --> 00:47:49,651
changes after one drink.

792
00:47:49,651 --> 00:47:52,251
I don't like how my body changes.

793
00:47:52,251 --> 00:47:55,751
And it's almost like writing these down
every morning.

794
00:47:55,751 --> 00:47:57,991
If I drink, I will.

795
00:47:58,051 --> 00:47:59,471
But it works.

796
00:47:59,471 --> 00:48:05,431
You know, I'm out in that sunshine with
you and it's, it's flipping brilliant.

797
00:48:05,431 --> 00:48:07,101
It is really flipping brilliant.

798
00:48:07,101 --> 00:48:08,343
And it's...

799
00:48:08,361 --> 00:48:09,321
And do you know what, Hamish?

800
00:48:09,321 --> 00:48:13,621
We can dance and we can sing and we can
have all the craic in the world and we

801
00:48:13,621 --> 00:48:15,461
don't need that substance.

802
00:48:15,941 --> 00:48:17,341
Who knew?

803
00:48:17,403 --> 00:48:17,743
Yeah.

804
00:48:17,743 --> 00:48:22,783
And it doesn't matter if we make ourselves
feel stupid because we've chosen it rather

805
00:48:22,783 --> 00:48:25,503
than tripped over something because we
were staggering.

806
00:48:25,503 --> 00:48:26,165
Yeah.

807
00:48:26,165 --> 00:48:27,035
is the thing.

808
00:48:27,035 --> 00:48:30,185
This is, and with me, like I had tools
like that.

809
00:48:30,185 --> 00:48:34,045
My biggest tool was NQTD.

810
00:48:34,045 --> 00:48:40,105
And the first place I heard NQTD was this
woman, Holly Whittaker, and it was on the

811
00:48:40,105 --> 00:48:41,165
Home Podcast.

812
00:48:41,165 --> 00:48:43,765
Never Question The Decision.

813
00:48:44,445 --> 00:48:48,205
Now this is the issue, cognitive
dissonance.

814
00:48:48,205 --> 00:48:52,805
It's a killer because you're saying, I'm
not gonna drink.

815
00:48:52,805 --> 00:48:53,641
And then.

816
00:48:53,641 --> 00:48:57,581
your subconscious has gone, yeah,
whatever, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

817
00:48:57,581 --> 00:49:02,241
And that's why I say to people,
affirmations are great.

818
00:49:02,661 --> 00:49:07,181
And neurons, we know this, yeah, neurons
that wired together or that fired

819
00:49:07,181 --> 00:49:08,261
together, wired together.

820
00:49:08,261 --> 00:49:10,581
We know that, the more you practice it.

821
00:49:10,581 --> 00:49:15,661
And changing that negativity bias and
saying, I am lovely, I am worthy, I'm

822
00:49:15,661 --> 00:49:15,981
whatever.

823
00:49:15,981 --> 00:49:19,381
But if your brain isn't believing it, then
that's a nonsense.

824
00:49:19,381 --> 00:49:22,857
So one of the things that I did was, this
is it.

825
00:49:22,857 --> 00:49:26,837
that I made a decision because I have
moderation on the table all the time.

826
00:49:26,837 --> 00:49:27,957
I'll just try one.

827
00:49:27,957 --> 00:49:30,937
I'm going to do it now where I'm just
going to have, actually I won't drink

828
00:49:30,937 --> 00:49:33,787
wine, I'll just drink sherry, because it's
really sickly.

829
00:49:33,787 --> 00:49:35,477
So I'll just, then you drink a bottle of
sherry.

830
00:49:35,477 --> 00:49:37,937
Or I won't drink sherry.

831
00:49:38,257 --> 00:49:39,066
Do you know what I mean?

832
00:49:39,066 --> 00:49:43,357
It's just like, I'll just drink, I'll just
buy minis.

833
00:49:43,357 --> 00:49:45,777
I'll just buy minis, because minis.

834
00:49:45,857 --> 00:49:49,243
But then you buy 10 minis instead of
buying one big, yeah.

835
00:49:49,289 --> 00:49:52,679
all of the lies and the craziness,
moderation doesn't work.

836
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:57,129
So once I realized all of these stupid
games that I was playing with myself and

837
00:49:57,129 --> 00:50:00,089
all of these, you know, I kept, I kept
bringing it in.

838
00:50:00,089 --> 00:50:04,189
The cognitive dissonance was there, you
know, that I wanted to do something so

839
00:50:04,189 --> 00:50:09,949
badly that aligned with my values, not to
drink and be healthy and be clear.

840
00:50:09,949 --> 00:50:13,269
And still it just got muddied.

841
00:50:13,549 --> 00:50:16,229
So never questioned the decision.

842
00:50:16,229 --> 00:50:17,729
NQTD.

843
00:50:17,729 --> 00:50:19,305
I wrote that everywhere.

844
00:50:19,305 --> 00:50:20,265
I wrote that everywhere.

845
00:50:20,265 --> 00:50:21,235
That was on the mirror.

846
00:50:21,235 --> 00:50:22,265
That's in the bathroom.

847
00:50:22,265 --> 00:50:24,605
That was on the visor in the car.

848
00:50:24,605 --> 00:50:27,685
I was thinking whenever I sell this car,
you just pull down the visor and it's just

849
00:50:27,685 --> 00:50:30,465
full of all of these aphorisms.

850
00:50:30,465 --> 00:50:32,185
But NQTD was everywhere.

851
00:50:32,185 --> 00:50:36,345
And then I had a bracelet with NQTD on.

852
00:50:36,345 --> 00:50:41,545
And it was just there and loads of us on
Soberistas used NQTD.

853
00:50:41,545 --> 00:50:45,405
And there was also KOKO, which is keep on
keeping on.

854
00:50:45,405 --> 00:50:48,571
And there was another one, which is I
haven't come this far.

855
00:50:48,617 --> 00:50:50,617
to only come this far.

856
00:50:51,077 --> 00:50:57,477
And I think that was a gift because even
when you're having a wobble, and you will

857
00:50:57,477 --> 00:51:02,357
have wobbles because your brain is trained
in such a way, if you've been drinking for

858
00:51:02,357 --> 00:51:08,617
30 years or doing something for 30 years,
and then suddenly you stop, it doesn't

859
00:51:08,617 --> 00:51:11,237
matter whether you're doing it every day
or whether you're doing it all day or

860
00:51:11,237 --> 00:51:14,537
whether you're doing it every weekend or
whether it's something you do when you're

861
00:51:14,537 --> 00:51:17,837
stressed or just something you do, you
know, when you just want to have a

862
00:51:17,837 --> 00:51:18,689
blowout.

863
00:51:18,889 --> 00:51:26,709
If your brain is trained to do that,
you've got to keep disrupting that because

864
00:51:26,709 --> 00:51:29,069
it will keep coming back.

865
00:51:29,069 --> 00:51:30,439
So you've got to be aware.

866
00:51:30,439 --> 00:51:33,889
I think when you're aware of it then, when
you're aware of that, when you're aware of

867
00:51:33,889 --> 00:51:39,929
that, the concept's called fading effect
bias, or some people call it euphoric

868
00:51:39,929 --> 00:51:41,829
recall, you know.

869
00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:44,729
So it's like the further you get away from
it, the more you're like, I wasn't really

870
00:51:44,729 --> 00:51:45,829
that bad.

871
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:46,591
Yeah.

872
00:51:46,825 --> 00:51:50,085
But I say it's like being in a coercive
relationship.

873
00:51:50,345 --> 00:51:53,785
You know, the further away from it, you
know, it will love bomb you.

874
00:51:53,785 --> 00:51:57,625
So you can go back and drink that wine and
go, woo hoo, look at that, it's great, it

875
00:51:57,625 --> 00:51:59,425
loves me, I love it.

876
00:51:59,425 --> 00:52:02,165
Why do we ever split up wine, we're
wonderful.

877
00:52:02,165 --> 00:52:06,745
But it won't last for long, that love
bombing, it will be, it's short lived.

878
00:52:06,745 --> 00:52:13,285
So when you know that, I do believe that
being aware, you know, forewarned is

879
00:52:13,285 --> 00:52:22,431
forearmed, isn't it?

880
00:52:22,431 --> 00:52:24,691
I think that's really important.

881
00:52:24,691 --> 00:52:26,451
I love your NQTT.

882
00:52:26,451 --> 00:52:48,241
NQTD.

883
00:52:48,241 --> 00:52:49,561
It's good, isn't it?

884
00:52:49,561 --> 00:52:50,721
NQTD.

885
00:52:50,721 --> 00:52:52,681
And I apply that to everything.

886
00:52:52,681 --> 00:52:56,969
The other thing I use, Hamish, which is
great, is the whole econ -

887
00:52:56,969 --> 00:52:57,949
economics of it.

888
00:52:57,949 --> 00:53:02,985
It's like, is this adding value to my
life?

889
00:53:02,985 --> 00:53:07,025
So it might add value, hedonically, in the
short term.

890
00:53:07,025 --> 00:53:10,245
But, you know, you're borrowing from
today.

891
00:53:10,345 --> 00:53:12,805
You know, you're borrowing from tomorrow.

892
00:53:12,905 --> 00:53:14,143
That's what it is, isn't it?

893
00:53:14,143 --> 00:53:15,303
Absolutely.

894
00:53:15,303 --> 00:53:17,693
I think there's a couple of things you
mentioned.

895
00:53:17,693 --> 00:53:19,623
One was identity.

896
00:53:19,623 --> 00:53:22,673
You know, we all for a while, that was our
identity.

897
00:53:22,673 --> 00:53:24,243
You were the light and soul of the party.

898
00:53:24,243 --> 00:53:26,563
I was the light and soul of the party.

899
00:53:27,102 --> 00:53:32,983
And changing your identity isn't easy, but
I love your, the process of your beliefs

900
00:53:32,983 --> 00:53:38,543
and through that way, because it is that
and it is that awareness just to, is it

901
00:53:38,543 --> 00:53:39,333
bringing me value?

902
00:53:39,333 --> 00:53:40,553
Yes, for the moment.

903
00:53:40,553 --> 00:53:41,303
It's brilliant.

904
00:53:41,303 --> 00:53:42,671
Yep, I am.

905
00:53:43,039 --> 00:53:44,039
I am rock and roll.

906
00:53:44,039 --> 00:53:45,819
Everyone thinks I'm wonderful.

907
00:53:45,819 --> 00:53:47,299
Following morning, not so good.

908
00:53:47,299 --> 00:53:48,779
Bank balance, not so good.

909
00:53:48,779 --> 00:53:50,979
Work, you're drunk again, you're hung over
again.

910
00:53:50,979 --> 00:53:52,999
You know, you're not going to get that
promotion.

911
00:53:52,999 --> 00:53:55,899
It's not good medium term or long term.

912
00:53:55,919 --> 00:54:03,739
But so how would how would somebody who is
on that fence, they know they've got that

913
00:54:03,739 --> 00:54:05,959
problem, they think they know they've got
that problem.

914
00:54:05,959 --> 00:54:12,991
How would what would you say to them to
sharpen that awareness and allow them to

915
00:54:12,991 --> 00:54:16,393
see they've got a decision to make.

916
00:54:16,393 --> 00:54:24,733
Yeah, I mean that's hard because a lot of
people reach out to me and say, I think

917
00:54:24,733 --> 00:54:29,333
I've got a problem with booze and we talk
about it and they identify with everything

918
00:54:29,333 --> 00:54:37,793
I say and we have similar stories and they
try really hard and I give them tools

919
00:54:37,893 --> 00:54:38,345
but...

920
00:54:38,345 --> 00:54:43,465
They have got to be at that stage of, you
know, they can't be me in the back garden

921
00:54:43,465 --> 00:54:48,945
drinking wine with my mates, smoking fags,
going, I get my email from soberistas.

922
00:54:49,045 --> 00:54:49,745
Yeah.

923
00:54:49,745 --> 00:54:55,605
And they have to, the first step I would
say is honesty, self honesty and self

924
00:54:55,605 --> 00:54:56,705
awareness.

925
00:54:57,245 --> 00:54:59,225
Reach out by all means.

926
00:54:59,225 --> 00:55:05,525
I'm not saying to people, don't reach out,
you know, become sober curious, really

927
00:55:05,525 --> 00:55:08,009
become sober curious or whatever.

928
00:55:08,009 --> 00:55:10,469
habit change you want to change.

929
00:55:10,469 --> 00:55:15,439
So if it's giving up vaping, I've got a
friend who vapes so much, she said to me,

930
00:55:15,439 --> 00:55:18,689
because we swim in the sea now, and she
said, you know, when we're in the sea, I

931
00:55:18,689 --> 00:55:20,309
don't vape, I don't even think about it.

932
00:55:20,309 --> 00:55:20,749
It's amazing.

933
00:55:20,749 --> 00:55:23,469
I went, my God, is that how bad it is?

934
00:55:23,469 --> 00:55:25,869
She says, yeah, I wake up in the middle of
the night.

935
00:55:25,869 --> 00:55:31,209
But she's aware of her addiction to it and
would like to change it, but isn't quite

936
00:55:31,209 --> 00:55:32,831
at that stage yet.

937
00:55:33,417 --> 00:55:36,377
So I think awareness is very important to
start with.

938
00:55:36,377 --> 00:55:43,177
So start first of all, to look at how you
drink or vape or smoke or gamble, whatever

939
00:55:43,177 --> 00:55:46,297
it is you're doing that you want to
change.

940
00:55:46,297 --> 00:55:50,737
And then I would say immerse yourself in
the believing stage.

941
00:55:50,737 --> 00:55:54,877
Start to actively use, use this, right?

942
00:55:54,877 --> 00:55:56,057
This is awesome.

943
00:55:56,057 --> 00:56:01,257
Get on it, get on your podcast app and put
in, if you want to stop vaping, just put

944
00:56:01,257 --> 00:56:03,561
in vaping and see what comes up.

945
00:56:03,561 --> 00:56:08,321
you'll find out some of the leading
thought, you know, leaders on vaping, I

946
00:56:08,321 --> 00:56:09,201
suppose out there.

947
00:56:09,201 --> 00:56:12,391
They'll all be doing, they'll all be doing
Diary of A CEO and all the podcasts.

948
00:56:12,391 --> 00:56:13,701
There's millions of them out there.

949
00:56:13,701 --> 00:56:18,411
So that's where you will find the best
information and immerse yourself in it.

950
00:56:18,411 --> 00:56:24,101
Listen to what they say and start to
follow people who have already done it

951
00:56:24,101 --> 00:56:24,881
ahead of you.

952
00:56:24,881 --> 00:56:28,461
And then start to actually think, can I do
it myself?

953
00:56:28,461 --> 00:56:31,421
And then, you know, dip your toe in it.

954
00:56:31,421 --> 00:56:33,033
Be, be ginger.

955
00:56:33,033 --> 00:56:36,433
with that, just don't expect big changes.

956
00:56:36,433 --> 00:56:40,133
See, this is the issue with behavior
change, I find Hamish, and you probably

957
00:56:40,133 --> 00:56:44,353
will experience this too in your line of
work, but also I think in your own

958
00:56:44,353 --> 00:56:45,413
experience.

959
00:56:45,413 --> 00:56:48,013
We make these swinging changes.

960
00:56:48,013 --> 00:56:52,233
So whenever I used to give up booze, I
would also give up fags.

961
00:56:52,233 --> 00:56:54,353
I would also do a sugar detox.

962
00:56:54,353 --> 00:56:56,173
I would do a digital detox.

963
00:56:56,173 --> 00:56:59,373
I would also take up writing, you know
what I mean?

964
00:56:59,373 --> 00:57:01,993
And I'd sign up for a marathon, you know?

965
00:57:01,993 --> 00:57:04,973
because my entire life was going to
change.

966
00:57:04,973 --> 00:57:09,233
And I say, just do the one thing.

967
00:57:09,293 --> 00:57:13,353
And this is advice I got from Laura
McCowen, who's the other half of the Home

968
00:57:13,353 --> 00:57:13,873
Podcast.

969
00:57:13,873 --> 00:57:17,793
She said, treat it like you're pregnant.

970
00:57:17,793 --> 00:57:23,573
Treat it like, and even if you're a man,
imagine nine months when you are in this

971
00:57:23,573 --> 00:57:28,593
stage of almost like you need to just rest
and recover.

972
00:57:28,693 --> 00:57:30,153
So you need to...

973
00:57:30,153 --> 00:57:33,513
you need to say no to those social
engagements.

974
00:57:33,513 --> 00:57:37,453
If the kids are downstairs and they're
demanding their dinner, look at, while

975
00:57:37,453 --> 00:57:41,813
you're knackered, because you will be
knackered when you stop drinking, drinking

976
00:57:41,813 --> 00:57:44,003
especially is exhausting, isn't it?

977
00:57:44,003 --> 00:57:48,193
I mean, the first three months weren't
like the first trimester of carrying my

978
00:57:48,193 --> 00:57:50,503
children, honest to God, I was wrecked.

979
00:57:50,503 --> 00:57:53,873
But like, if the kids are downstairs and
there's nothing to feed them, throw the

980
00:57:53,873 --> 00:57:55,173
nuggets into the oven.

981
00:57:55,173 --> 00:57:56,793
You know, they're not gonna die.

982
00:57:56,793 --> 00:57:59,543
Let them have the Coco Pops, they're not
gonna die.

983
00:57:59,593 --> 00:58:02,653
You come first, that's the key thing.

984
00:58:02,653 --> 00:58:05,713
For those precious nine months, you come
first.

985
00:58:05,713 --> 00:58:10,893
And I think if you do wrap yourself in
cotton wool for that time and prioritize

986
00:58:10,893 --> 00:58:14,233
yourself, that is you putting on your
oxygen mask.

987
00:58:14,273 --> 00:58:16,873
And that's the very first thing.

988
00:58:16,873 --> 00:58:22,173
But if you immerse yourself into the
stories of everybody else, that will help.

989
00:58:22,173 --> 00:58:24,777
And I would also say play it forward.

990
00:58:24,777 --> 00:58:28,877
always think that when you're having a bit
of a wobble, think if I have this glass of

991
00:58:28,877 --> 00:58:34,037
wine or this cigarette or whatever it is,
what's going to happen tomorrow morning?

992
00:58:34,197 --> 00:58:39,277
So just think about where that takes you
to and use that.

993
00:58:39,277 --> 00:58:45,617
But I really think if you think of the
believing part, beginning is the starting.

994
00:58:45,617 --> 00:58:52,357
So think about, you know, every single day
putting things in your life that support

995
00:58:52,357 --> 00:58:53,121
you.

996
00:58:53,193 --> 00:58:58,253
So when you're in that nine month phase to
start with, think about meditation.

997
00:58:58,253 --> 00:59:01,833
I'm not asking you to do loads and loads
and loads, but maybe try and think about

998
00:59:01,833 --> 00:59:02,993
your breathing.

999
00:59:02,993 --> 00:59:06,353
You know, follow people who might be able
to help you with that area.

1000
00:59:06,353 --> 00:59:08,113
Think about journaling.

1001
00:59:08,413 --> 00:59:11,253
Think, but you're not going to write a
novel, so just get that off the table to

1002
00:59:11,253 --> 00:59:12,333
start with.

1003
00:59:12,713 --> 00:59:14,933
Let's just set the bars low.

1004
00:59:15,273 --> 00:59:17,853
But you know, think about going for runs.

1005
00:59:17,853 --> 00:59:20,133
Think about doing things that nourish you.

1006
00:59:20,133 --> 00:59:22,217
But I'm not saying sign up for a marathon.

1007
00:59:22,217 --> 00:59:27,937
Think about adding in daily practices that
will support you.

1008
00:59:27,937 --> 00:59:34,617
But my biggest piece of advice, 100 % and
this is Johan Hari, a quote from him from

1009
00:59:34,617 --> 00:59:39,777
Lost Connections, the opposite to
addiction is what, Hamish?

1010
00:59:40,677 --> 00:59:41,543
100%.

1011
00:59:41,543 --> 00:59:43,193
quote him in a few minutes time.

1012
00:59:43,193 --> 00:59:44,083
Absolutely.

1013
00:59:44,083 --> 00:59:44,887
Yeah.

1014
00:59:45,321 --> 00:59:47,681
That was the driving force of my own
study.

1015
00:59:47,681 --> 00:59:49,721
They say research is me -search.

1016
00:59:49,721 --> 00:59:50,981
That is it.

1017
00:59:50,981 --> 00:59:53,561
The opposite to addiction is connection.

1018
00:59:53,561 --> 00:59:55,941
So don't do this alone.

1019
00:59:55,941 --> 01:00:02,041
Whether you do sign up for a smart
recovery program or a 12 -step program.

1020
01:00:02,041 --> 01:00:06,701
- Hamish, I know loads and loads of my
friends, loads of friends who I've found

1021
01:00:06,701 --> 01:00:11,121
over the past six years since I've been
sober are in AA and in recovery programs

1022
01:00:11,121 --> 01:00:15,497
and speak really, like they're great
because they,

1023
01:00:15,497 --> 01:00:21,017
In the 12 step program, you get to the
good parts of it.

1024
01:00:21,017 --> 01:00:24,777
I'm not into the shame bit and the
anonymity and the I'm broken.

1025
01:00:24,777 --> 01:00:26,277
I don't, I'm not going to talk about that.

1026
01:00:26,277 --> 01:00:27,617
I'm a positive psychologist.

1027
01:00:27,617 --> 01:00:29,167
I don't give a shit about what's wrong.

1028
01:00:29,167 --> 01:00:30,837
I want to see what's strong in you.

1029
01:00:30,837 --> 01:00:32,497
Let's talk about what's strong.

1030
01:00:32,497 --> 01:00:35,397
Because when you get to this level, you
are broken.

1031
01:00:35,397 --> 01:00:36,117
You're on your knees.

1032
01:00:36,117 --> 01:00:37,357
You want to build up.

1033
01:00:37,357 --> 01:00:40,757
I don't want to keep telling myself that
I'm crap and I did this and that.

1034
01:00:40,757 --> 01:00:41,597
It happened.

1035
01:00:41,597 --> 01:00:42,377
It's gone.

1036
01:00:42,377 --> 01:00:42,817
Go.

1037
01:00:42,817 --> 01:00:43,777
Let's move on.

1038
01:00:43,777 --> 01:00:44,905
Let's move on.

1039
01:00:44,905 --> 01:00:46,805
Let's celebrate our strength.

1040
01:00:46,805 --> 01:00:52,805
But what I always say is reach out and
find a tribe.

1041
01:00:52,805 --> 01:00:56,945
Whether it's, there's a recovery running
tribe that we have done in the park in

1042
01:00:56,945 --> 01:01:00,205
Sefton Park every Sunday at nine o 'clock.

1043
01:01:00,205 --> 01:01:03,825
A fella set that up, a guy called Steve,
awesome thing going on.

1044
01:01:03,825 --> 01:01:06,325
There are so many other things that you
can find.

1045
01:01:06,325 --> 01:01:09,965
Go online, look for Sober Communities.

1046
01:01:09,965 --> 01:01:13,655
There's Be Sober, there's so many out
there now.

1047
01:01:13,737 --> 01:01:17,587
And I think, and I would say the same is
for everything, isn't it?

1048
01:01:17,587 --> 01:01:23,357
Whether you're recovering from an illness,
whether you're, you know, you've given up

1049
01:01:23,357 --> 01:01:27,677
another form of, you know, whether you're
recovering from some form of trauma.

1050
01:01:27,717 --> 01:01:33,077
There are groups that I really would
recommend find that support system as well

1051
01:01:33,077 --> 01:01:35,597
as everything else that you do, because
that's so nourishing.

1052
01:01:35,597 --> 01:01:37,657
And you'll need that all your life.

1053
01:01:37,657 --> 01:01:40,037
And you'll use it in various ways.

1054
01:01:40,037 --> 01:01:41,033
You know, you might not.

1055
01:01:41,033 --> 01:01:44,553
Like I don't check in, I hardly check in
on soberistas now, but I'm a lifelong

1056
01:01:44,553 --> 01:01:45,313
member.

1057
01:01:45,313 --> 01:01:48,853
I'll always pay my fees because it's been
so good to me.

1058
01:01:48,853 --> 01:01:54,513
And I'll always write blogs and post them
there to help other people because I think

1059
01:01:54,513 --> 01:01:58,933
that's being of service and I'm always
available for people who need support

1060
01:01:58,933 --> 01:02:00,053
there.

1061
01:02:00,153 --> 01:02:05,873
And I think that's, I think giving back is
a key to helping as well, isn't it?

1062
01:02:05,873 --> 01:02:08,735
For you, for your own mental health.

1063
01:02:08,735 --> 01:02:15,335
No, I think you're you're you're spot on
for you know, the the giving up is is the

1064
01:02:15,335 --> 01:02:20,255
giving back is so incredibly important
because you are proof I am proof that it's

1065
01:02:20,255 --> 01:02:26,015
possible to sober up to get over whatever
it is, whatever addiction and that's you

1066
01:02:26,015 --> 01:02:29,035
know, you can go to a psychologist who's
got lots of letters after their name, but

1067
01:02:29,035 --> 01:02:34,655
if they haven't been to those lows, you
you don't have that resonance.

1068
01:02:35,495 --> 01:02:37,599
And I think I think that is in

1069
01:02:37,599 --> 01:02:38,719
incredibly important.

1070
01:02:38,719 --> 01:02:43,899
Just acknowledge what you're doing there,
giving back and helping because it's

1071
01:02:43,899 --> 01:02:45,139
remarkable.

1072
01:02:46,519 --> 01:02:52,839
One thing I wanted to talk about is the
self -shaming aspect of drinking, of

1073
01:02:52,839 --> 01:02:53,939
addiction.

1074
01:02:54,759 --> 01:03:01,239
I threw empty bottles out of my car, I
drove drunk and I'm not proud of that.

1075
01:03:02,119 --> 01:03:06,207
That was less shameful than

1076
01:03:06,207 --> 01:03:10,307
being found at home with empty bottles of
alcohol.

1077
01:03:10,847 --> 01:03:14,737
And it's a horrible thing to say, yeah, I
was doing that.

1078
01:03:14,737 --> 01:03:16,817
And it would be one, two, three, smash.

1079
01:03:16,817 --> 01:03:18,807
I can hear them.

1080
01:03:19,667 --> 01:03:27,007
And that shame, I can either carry with me
or go, well, I was doing the best I could.

1081
01:03:27,607 --> 01:03:30,677
And you can't carry it with you.

1082
01:03:30,677 --> 01:03:32,197
You just, you can't.

1083
01:03:32,197 --> 01:03:34,847
Otherwise it's gonna, you're gonna have
that next drink.

1084
01:03:34,847 --> 01:03:35,617
That's what I did.

1085
01:03:35,617 --> 01:03:36,847
I don't care.

1086
01:03:37,467 --> 01:03:40,227
How do we?

1087
01:03:40,947 --> 01:03:41,967
Yeah.

1088
01:03:43,207 --> 01:03:48,223
But how do we?

1089
01:03:48,223 --> 01:03:52,643
learn to let go of that shame because it's
only us beating ourselves up.

1090
01:03:52,643 --> 01:03:54,202
How do we release that?

1091
01:03:54,202 --> 01:03:56,513
Because that's where the magic is.

1092
01:03:56,513 --> 01:04:00,075
That's where you're going to really start
to overcome anything.

1093
01:04:00,553 --> 01:04:02,773
Yeah, that's self -compassion.

1094
01:04:02,773 --> 01:04:10,773
That's, I think, one of the most important
things my counselor said to me was as I

1095
01:04:10,773 --> 01:04:17,513
got that clarity and I started to
backpedal and think about the things I had

1096
01:04:17,513 --> 01:04:23,813
done and why did I make that choice and
why am I stuck there and why am I in this

1097
01:04:23,813 --> 01:04:25,273
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1098
01:04:25,273 --> 01:04:26,793
And she said to me,

1099
01:04:26,793 --> 01:04:30,973
you did the best you could with the tools
you had at the time.

1100
01:04:31,173 --> 01:04:31,773
Yeah.

1101
01:04:31,773 --> 01:04:38,433
She said that girl who you were did the
best she could with the tools she had.

1102
01:04:38,433 --> 01:04:40,193
Drink was a tool.

1103
01:04:40,293 --> 01:04:42,433
Drink was a tool, you know.

1104
01:04:42,433 --> 01:04:45,693
So it's not, we know that it's not the
drink.

1105
01:04:45,693 --> 01:04:46,223
It's us.

1106
01:04:46,223 --> 01:04:50,713
It is a tool that we use as a coping
mechanism to deal.

1107
01:04:50,933 --> 01:04:53,417
And I think developing...

1108
01:04:53,417 --> 01:05:01,417
a habit of self -compassion and that
means, and that's why I'm so staunchly pro

1109
01:05:01,417 --> 01:05:04,537
positive psychology in the tools that I
use.

1110
01:05:04,537 --> 01:05:09,737
So the first thing I do with somebody is I
give them access to the VIA character

1111
01:05:09,737 --> 01:05:14,197
strength survey and it's viacarracter
.org.

1112
01:05:14,197 --> 01:05:15,347
It's free.

1113
01:05:15,347 --> 01:05:21,137
It was developed by Martin Seligman 20
years ago and you go on it, you find out

1114
01:05:21,137 --> 01:05:23,689
what your top character strengths are.

1115
01:05:23,689 --> 01:05:26,019
and they are your defining
characteristics.

1116
01:05:26,019 --> 01:05:28,829
They're not set, they can move.

1117
01:05:28,829 --> 01:05:32,109
So when I did it first, I got love of
learning, because I was in the middle of a

1118
01:05:32,109 --> 01:05:38,669
masters, but in my top five were
curiosity, creativity, gratitude,

1119
01:05:38,669 --> 01:05:40,469
appreciation of beauty and excellence.

1120
01:05:40,469 --> 01:05:43,129
I was like, this is cool, I love this.

1121
01:05:43,129 --> 01:05:46,629
And then when I did it second, I got
creativity as my top one, because I was in

1122
01:05:46,629 --> 01:05:48,529
the middle of setting up my own business.

1123
01:05:48,569 --> 01:05:50,799
So they're gonna empower you.

1124
01:05:50,799 --> 01:05:52,809
And because it's evidence -based,

1125
01:05:52,809 --> 01:05:56,489
because it's a psychological tool, it's a
measurement tool.

1126
01:05:56,489 --> 01:06:02,089
When you get that information, you can
actually create a new story for yourself.

1127
01:06:02,089 --> 01:06:06,209
You can say, actually, the reason why I
was a bit of a piss head and a bit of a

1128
01:06:06,209 --> 01:06:10,849
risk taker was because curiosity is one of
my top, I'm just a nosy cow.

1129
01:06:10,849 --> 01:06:14,609
So I'd say, I wonder what happens if I mix
this with this and whoa, that's great.

1130
01:06:14,609 --> 01:06:19,469
So I think, you know, you can reinvent,
because it's all about the stories we tell

1131
01:06:19,469 --> 01:06:20,523
ourselves.

1132
01:06:20,585 --> 01:06:25,685
If we tell ourselves a story that we are
worthless, if we tell ourselves a story

1133
01:06:25,685 --> 01:06:31,545
that we are broken, if we tell ourselves a
story that we drank because we were

1134
01:06:31,545 --> 01:06:36,565
unworthy, that story becomes our life.

1135
01:06:36,565 --> 01:06:37,885
It's still our narrative.

1136
01:06:37,885 --> 01:06:39,525
We've got control.

1137
01:06:39,525 --> 01:06:44,645
And we know that, and this is what I love
about psychology, because we can create

1138
01:06:44,645 --> 01:06:46,505
new neural pathways.

1139
01:06:46,665 --> 01:06:47,635
limiting beliefs.

1140
01:06:47,635 --> 01:06:50,045
I love Carol Dweck's work as a teacher.

1141
01:06:50,045 --> 01:06:53,985
I used to always love her work about
growth mindsets.

1142
01:06:53,985 --> 01:06:57,385
You don't have to be, you know, I'm no
good at that.

1143
01:06:57,385 --> 01:07:00,945
Well, actually, no, nobody is until they
actually start practicing it.

1144
01:07:00,945 --> 01:07:03,635
I was no good at drinking until I started
drinking all the time.

1145
01:07:03,635 --> 01:07:05,765
Then I became really good at it.

1146
01:07:05,765 --> 01:07:08,245
Then I could drink any man under the
table.

1147
01:07:08,245 --> 01:07:13,045
So it's like, you know, and I was no good
at sobriety until I started practicing

1148
01:07:13,045 --> 01:07:13,833
that.

1149
01:07:13,833 --> 01:07:17,653
And now I think I'm pretty bossy actually,
I'm a bit of a badass when it comes to it.

1150
01:07:17,653 --> 01:07:19,173
And that's the thing as well.

1151
01:07:19,173 --> 01:07:21,103
I have changed the narrative.

1152
01:07:21,103 --> 01:07:23,573
So I'm no longer, I'm not a victim.

1153
01:07:23,673 --> 01:07:26,353
You know, I am a sober badass.

1154
01:07:26,353 --> 01:07:27,913
I am a sober rebel.

1155
01:07:27,913 --> 01:07:34,173
I swim against the tide of, you know,
social expectation and what we do.

1156
01:07:34,173 --> 01:07:36,473
Yeah, this is countercultural what we're
doing.

1157
01:07:36,473 --> 01:07:37,463
This is countercultural.

1158
01:07:37,463 --> 01:07:38,433
It's amazing.

1159
01:07:38,433 --> 01:07:39,773
How exciting is that?

1160
01:07:39,773 --> 01:07:42,133
We're on the cusp of a revolution.

1161
01:07:42,393 --> 01:07:43,311
So.

1162
01:07:43,497 --> 01:07:47,456
Start to empower yourself with different
stories.

1163
01:07:47,456 --> 01:07:49,577
And then the shame just goes away.

1164
01:07:49,577 --> 01:07:50,967
You're like, yeah, so I did that.

1165
01:07:50,967 --> 01:07:52,117
So I had bottles under my bed.

1166
01:07:52,117 --> 01:07:53,337
Yeah, so what?

1167
01:07:53,337 --> 01:07:54,337
That was me then.

1168
01:07:54,337 --> 01:07:55,707
I was doing the best I could.

1169
01:07:55,707 --> 01:07:57,537
I was dealing with it the best I could.

1170
01:07:57,537 --> 01:07:58,537
Look under my bed now.

1171
01:07:58,537 --> 01:07:59,717
There's nothing there.

1172
01:07:59,717 --> 01:08:01,697
Do you know, it's grand.

1173
01:08:01,957 --> 01:08:04,837
Except my running shoes because I'm going
to go and I'm training for a marathon

1174
01:08:04,837 --> 01:08:06,937
because I'm actually doing it now,
whatever it is.

1175
01:08:06,937 --> 01:08:08,607
And I think that's the key.

1176
01:08:08,607 --> 01:08:10,473
That's really the key.

1177
01:08:10,473 --> 01:08:12,813
Be aware of the stories that you tell
yourself.

1178
01:08:12,813 --> 01:08:16,283
Be present to the thoughts that come into
your mind.

1179
01:08:16,283 --> 01:08:20,373
That's why every time I set a challenge,
part of it's going to be a self -awareness

1180
01:08:20,373 --> 01:08:20,893
piece.

1181
01:08:20,893 --> 01:08:25,793
So I will always have prompts on my social
media that remind people, you know, what

1182
01:08:25,793 --> 01:08:27,693
are you telling yourself today?

1183
01:08:27,693 --> 01:08:28,873
Who are you today?

1184
01:08:28,873 --> 01:08:31,253
How are you showing up for yourself today?

1185
01:08:31,253 --> 01:08:34,733
How are you interacting with others, even
difficult people?

1186
01:08:34,773 --> 01:08:38,553
And you know, when people say, my son only
said to me yesterday when we were having

1187
01:08:38,553 --> 01:08:39,305
dinner.

1188
01:08:39,305 --> 01:08:41,255
And he said something about me not
drinking wine.

1189
01:08:41,255 --> 01:08:42,555
And I said, because I'm sober.

1190
01:08:42,555 --> 01:08:44,785
And he said, but you're not really sober.

1191
01:08:44,785 --> 01:08:48,845
I mean, it's not like you were like rock
bottom because he's now started to listen

1192
01:08:48,845 --> 01:08:53,485
to Joe Rogan and other podcasts and, you
know, celebrities talking about their

1193
01:08:53,485 --> 01:08:54,245
stories.

1194
01:08:54,245 --> 01:08:57,085
And I said, no, I still regard myself as
sober.

1195
01:08:57,085 --> 01:09:00,025
And I still think that that's an amazing
thing to be.

1196
01:09:00,025 --> 01:09:05,105
And I'm, I, even if you find that term
strange, he's like, but it's not like you

1197
01:09:05,105 --> 01:09:05,505
had a problem.

1198
01:09:05,505 --> 01:09:08,105
I said, I did have a problem because if.

1199
01:09:08,105 --> 01:09:14,005
If I can't stop taking a substance, if I
decide that I want to do something and I

1200
01:09:14,005 --> 01:09:18,865
break promises to myself because I don't
do that thing, that is a problem.

1201
01:09:18,965 --> 01:09:21,145
I said, and that was a problem.

1202
01:09:21,145 --> 01:09:25,445
If I say I'm going to have one glass and a
bottle and a half, that's a problem.

1203
01:09:25,445 --> 01:09:26,865
It's a problem.

1204
01:09:26,865 --> 01:09:33,405
You know, so I think that's the key thing
is to be aware of who, what, what you're

1205
01:09:33,405 --> 01:09:35,975
telling yourself and challenge it.

1206
01:09:35,975 --> 01:09:37,601
Just keep challenging it.

1207
01:09:37,993 --> 01:09:40,433
I say, I have a thing for students.

1208
01:09:40,433 --> 01:09:45,393
I call it when the ants come in, the
automatic negative thoughts.

1209
01:09:45,393 --> 01:09:47,233
I say, turn them into PETS.

1210
01:09:47,233 --> 01:09:49,253
Turn your ANTS into PETS.

1211
01:09:49,253 --> 01:09:51,793
Make them positive, empowering thoughts.

1212
01:09:51,793 --> 01:09:57,893
And I said, the way you can do that is you
can stamp on the ants is one of the ones I

1213
01:09:57,893 --> 01:09:58,533
say.

1214
01:09:58,533 --> 01:10:01,153
Stop S, stop.

1215
01:10:01,153 --> 01:10:02,633
T, tackle it.

1216
01:10:02,633 --> 01:10:04,253
Tackle that thought.

1217
01:10:04,253 --> 01:10:05,753
A, ask.

1218
01:10:05,753 --> 01:10:07,905
Ask yourself, is it true?

1219
01:10:08,949 --> 01:10:10,299
find a new mantra.

1220
01:10:10,299 --> 01:10:14,069
So I'll say to my students, you know,
what's your top character strength?

1221
01:10:14,069 --> 01:10:14,949
Kindness.

1222
01:10:14,949 --> 01:10:18,369
Change that I am lazy to, I am kind.

1223
01:10:19,009 --> 01:10:21,469
And then P, practice.

1224
01:10:21,469 --> 01:10:22,629
Write that down.

1225
01:10:22,629 --> 01:10:24,129
Put it on the wall.

1226
01:10:24,129 --> 01:10:25,349
Put it on your mirror.

1227
01:10:25,349 --> 01:10:26,689
Put it on your hand.

1228
01:10:26,689 --> 01:10:27,549
Put it wherever.

1229
01:10:27,549 --> 01:10:28,239
Get a tattoo.

1230
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:30,209
No, don't get a tattoo because your mother
will kill me.

1231
01:10:30,209 --> 01:10:31,969
But you know what I mean?

1232
01:10:32,429 --> 01:10:37,633
And then have it there to remind you and
instead of going,

1233
01:10:37,653 --> 01:10:40,133
my God, the shame, the shame.

1234
01:10:40,133 --> 01:10:42,973
Go, yeah, but I'm actually really kind.

1235
01:10:42,973 --> 01:10:45,853
Or I'm, I love learning or I am safe.

1236
01:10:45,853 --> 01:10:47,533
I am capable.

1237
01:10:47,533 --> 01:10:52,373
I've given, and I think one of the things
about this is when we know this Hamish,

1238
01:10:52,373 --> 01:10:57,833
when we stop drinking or do something
that's really difficult, we do become

1239
01:10:57,833 --> 01:11:00,453
badass in every area of our lives.

1240
01:11:00,453 --> 01:11:02,553
Cause we think I've done that.

1241
01:11:02,793 --> 01:11:06,697
Jesus, I can stand on a stage and talk
cause I've given up booze.

1242
01:11:07,465 --> 01:11:10,845
I can leave this job and set up a
business, I've given up booze.

1243
01:11:10,845 --> 01:11:15,865
I can, you know, find a few pence to rub
together when times are tough because I've

1244
01:11:15,865 --> 01:11:17,285
given up booze.

1245
01:11:17,285 --> 01:11:22,985
So I think we can do anything when we have
said, when we're committing to something

1246
01:11:22,985 --> 01:11:26,665
that we've promised ourselves that we're
going to do and we actually keep our

1247
01:11:26,665 --> 01:11:27,985
promise to ourselves.

1248
01:11:27,985 --> 01:11:30,945
My God, we've got power beyond belief.

1249
01:11:30,945 --> 01:11:32,375
Isn't it true though?

1250
01:11:32,575 --> 01:11:34,575
It absolutely is.

1251
01:11:35,055 --> 01:11:38,575
And there's so much, so much that you've
said.

1252
01:11:38,575 --> 01:11:42,545
And I think I struggle with keeping
promises for myself.

1253
01:11:42,545 --> 01:11:45,775
And when I do, I feel a million dollars.

1254
01:11:45,795 --> 01:11:47,825
And just, you know, I did that today.

1255
01:11:47,825 --> 01:11:48,725
I did that today.

1256
01:11:48,725 --> 01:11:49,655
I said, I'll do that.

1257
01:11:49,655 --> 01:11:50,915
And I've done it.

1258
01:11:51,035 --> 01:11:53,015
Yeah, I'm quite proud of my checklists.

1259
01:11:53,015 --> 01:11:54,475
They help.

1260
01:11:54,475 --> 01:12:00,767
But making promises and keeping promises
to yourself is...

1261
01:12:00,767 --> 01:12:03,047
It's just incredibly important.

1262
01:12:03,047 --> 01:12:04,447
It's incredibly empowering.

1263
01:12:04,447 --> 01:12:07,927
And right at the beginning of this
conversation, you talked about sparks.

1264
01:12:08,007 --> 01:12:12,987
And every promise you make to yourself is
that little spark of light just going up.

1265
01:12:12,987 --> 01:12:14,857
And yeah, tick, there's another one.

1266
01:12:14,857 --> 01:12:19,467
So if I have a slip, it doesn't matter
because I'm slowly putting those sparks

1267
01:12:19,467 --> 01:12:21,527
making my world lighter.

1268
01:12:21,527 --> 01:12:27,367
If I have a shit day and if I fall or if I
stumble or if I have a drink, it's not

1269
01:12:27,367 --> 01:12:29,001
going to kill you because you've

1270
01:12:29,001 --> 01:12:29,583
in.

1271
01:12:29,583 --> 01:12:35,463
up, you've rewired, you've got those
sparks and you can get back off your knees

1272
01:12:35,463 --> 01:12:41,943
again, dust them off and go oops I'm still
a badass and yeah.

1273
01:12:42,153 --> 01:12:47,233
that's why I've said so one of the quotes
that I use a lot is from Rich Roll and I

1274
01:12:47,233 --> 01:12:48,033
don't know where he got it.

1275
01:12:48,033 --> 01:12:49,653
You know, he's a podcaster who I listen
to.

1276
01:12:49,653 --> 01:12:52,773
He's an ultra marathon guy because he has
to be like extreme.

1277
01:12:53,053 --> 01:12:54,653
You can't just be a marathon runner.

1278
01:12:54,653 --> 01:12:56,413
It has to be like the extreme.

1279
01:12:56,413 --> 01:12:59,313
But his one is mood follows action.

1280
01:12:59,313 --> 01:13:01,233
And I love that mood follows action.

1281
01:13:01,233 --> 01:13:02,473
So I use that a lot.

1282
01:13:02,473 --> 01:13:07,553
But the reason why I said believing plus
beginning equals becoming is because the

1283
01:13:07,553 --> 01:13:08,895
action bit.

1284
01:13:08,937 --> 01:13:15,477
We can be, if we fall off sometimes, I've
given you permission to start again by

1285
01:13:15,477 --> 01:13:17,237
beginning, beginning.

1286
01:13:17,237 --> 01:13:22,777
So it's just putting, it's like, okay, I'm
off, but we know that once we have

1287
01:13:22,777 --> 01:13:25,617
momentum, the power of momentum is
incredible.

1288
01:13:25,617 --> 01:13:30,657
So we don't want to fall off because
beginning is bloody hard.

1289
01:13:30,737 --> 01:13:34,577
And once we've become, then we can start
to believe in the next thing and then

1290
01:13:34,577 --> 01:13:35,377
begin that.

1291
01:13:35,377 --> 01:13:39,041
Because everybody who starts something is
always going to be shit at it.

1292
01:13:39,337 --> 01:13:44,037
And I think when you realise that that
beginning bit gives you permission to be a

1293
01:13:44,037 --> 01:13:49,057
bit rubbish, you know, to be a bit like, I
tried and I, the amount of people who say

1294
01:13:49,057 --> 01:13:53,777
to me, I tried, yeah, I did, I don't do
meditation because like I did it once, it

1295
01:13:53,777 --> 01:13:54,417
was crap.

1296
01:13:54,417 --> 01:13:57,597
I didn't, yeah, I came out, I didn't feel
in any way enlightened.

1297
01:13:57,597 --> 01:13:59,467
You're like, yeah, you did it once, maybe.

1298
01:13:59,467 --> 01:14:02,697
It's like going to the gym and going, I
went to the gym once, I came out, I didn't

1299
01:14:02,697 --> 01:14:04,317
even, still had a belly.

1300
01:14:04,317 --> 01:14:05,977
What's that all about?

1301
01:14:05,997 --> 01:14:09,513
What do you expect?

1302
01:14:09,513 --> 01:14:14,973
But I do think that the beginning bit has
a little bit of forgiveness there.

1303
01:14:14,973 --> 01:14:18,173
So believing plus beginning equals
becoming.

1304
01:14:18,233 --> 01:14:22,573
Because I do really genuinely think that
the more you begin and the more you start

1305
01:14:22,573 --> 01:14:27,573
to show up, and I think that happiness,
happiness is there.

1306
01:14:27,573 --> 01:14:30,293
Happiness we create, it's there.

1307
01:14:30,293 --> 01:14:32,913
But it's not something that's just going
to fall upon us.

1308
01:14:32,913 --> 01:14:34,753
It won't fall out of the sky.

1309
01:14:34,753 --> 01:14:36,533
It's a practice.

1310
01:14:36,533 --> 01:14:38,697
And the more we practice it,

1311
01:14:38,697 --> 01:14:42,656
the more we are able to access it.

1312
01:14:42,656 --> 01:14:45,237
And I think that that's the joy.

1313
01:14:45,237 --> 01:14:51,337
The joy of dealing is post -traumatic
growth is what they call it in positive

1314
01:14:51,337 --> 01:14:52,557
psychology.

1315
01:14:52,677 --> 01:14:59,027
The blessing of having to face into shit
because pain is inevitable, isn't it?

1316
01:14:59,027 --> 01:15:00,757
Pain is inevitable in life.

1317
01:15:00,757 --> 01:15:02,977
Suffering is optional.

1318
01:15:03,177 --> 01:15:05,437
Suffering is the story we tell ourselves.

1319
01:15:05,437 --> 01:15:07,857
If you tell yourself that you're shameful,

1320
01:15:07,881 --> 01:15:10,141
and that you're crap and you're broken.

1321
01:15:10,141 --> 01:15:11,641
That's the story you've told yourself.

1322
01:15:11,641 --> 01:15:13,561
There's your suffering right there.

1323
01:15:13,561 --> 01:15:17,811
So I think what I'm talking about is
acceptance really, isn't it?

1324
01:15:17,811 --> 01:15:19,801
It's all about acceptance.

1325
01:15:20,121 --> 01:15:24,301
Because when you start to remember, and
that's acceptance and commitment therapy,

1326
01:15:24,301 --> 01:15:28,901
there's a whole branch of positive
psychology called acceptance and

1327
01:15:28,901 --> 01:15:29,801
commitment therapy.

1328
01:15:29,801 --> 01:15:32,061
And that's what that's all about.

1329
01:15:32,061 --> 01:15:36,481
It's about being present, being mindful
enough to go, okay.

1330
01:15:36,489 --> 01:15:37,039
right?

1331
01:15:37,039 --> 01:15:38,369
That's what happened.

1332
01:15:38,369 --> 01:15:40,709
I accept that part of me.

1333
01:15:40,709 --> 01:15:42,449
I love that part of me.

1334
01:15:42,449 --> 01:15:45,669
I'm compassionate and then move on.

1335
01:15:45,789 --> 01:15:52,169
And I actively stop people in my, if I'm
with somebody in company and they say,

1336
01:15:52,169 --> 01:15:55,269
God, I'm so stupid, I will call them out.

1337
01:15:55,269 --> 01:16:01,409
I've got so trained in my own head to
stopping that thought process that I stop

1338
01:16:01,409 --> 01:16:04,649
students in classrooms, friends.

1339
01:16:04,649 --> 01:16:10,829
anybody I meet, the girl behind the desk
and wherever in Asda, but I make sure that

1340
01:16:10,829 --> 01:16:14,829
if somebody says that I'll say, no, no,
no, I'm going to change that, please,

1341
01:16:14,829 --> 01:16:17,589
change that thought, because that's just a
habit.

1342
01:16:17,829 --> 01:16:21,859
And that's a negative habit because those
thoughts don't just sit there, do they?

1343
01:16:21,859 --> 01:16:26,269
Those automatic negative thoughts, they
create a chemical process in our bodies

1344
01:16:26,269 --> 01:16:28,569
and they create cortisol and all the crap.

1345
01:16:28,569 --> 01:16:30,409
So we don't want that.

1346
01:16:30,749 --> 01:16:33,529
So that's why I think self -shaming is
toxic.

1347
01:16:33,529 --> 01:16:34,793
It's disgusting.

1348
01:16:34,793 --> 01:16:35,913
It's unnecessary.

1349
01:16:35,913 --> 01:16:37,943
How can that be a helpful tool?

1350
01:16:38,655 --> 01:16:40,055
No.

1351
01:16:40,175 --> 01:16:41,145
Madness.

1352
01:16:41,769 --> 01:16:43,649
Self -compassion is a power.

1353
01:16:43,649 --> 01:16:48,479
Self -compassion is where the hidden power
lies.

1354
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:49,859
Absolutely.

1355
01:16:50,839 --> 01:16:54,819
Wow Liz, that was remarkable.

1356
01:16:55,039 --> 01:16:57,399
I could listen to you talk all day.

1357
01:16:57,399 --> 01:16:59,779
Not quite sure how you can respond to that
one.

1358
01:16:59,779 --> 01:17:05,209
So moving on quickly, I think that has
been really very, very special.

1359
01:17:05,209 --> 01:17:08,311
How can people find out a little bit more
about you?

1360
01:17:09,097 --> 01:17:14,817
They could that I have my own podcast with
Julia Carson who is the writer of this

1361
01:17:14,817 --> 01:17:15,357
book.

1362
01:17:15,357 --> 01:17:17,897
This is this isn't a plug for poor old
Julia.

1363
01:17:17,897 --> 01:17:20,737
She's gonna be mortified if she sees this
she'd like why you do that?

1364
01:17:20,737 --> 01:17:25,156
But it's just because it's up here on my
my shelf sober positive.

1365
01:17:25,156 --> 01:17:30,477
It's called Julia Carson She's my mate
from sober istas and our podcast is called

1366
01:17:30,477 --> 01:17:56,253
Rise the Rise Podcast

1367
01:17:56,253 --> 01:18:10,417
So you can find me on my website at
LizFowlan .com.

1368
01:18:10,417 --> 01:18:18,237
So my writings there you can find me on
Instagram as @ Sunrise Sobriety Which is

1369
01:18:18,237 --> 01:18:22,377
really interesting that this is called
awakenings because my tag I went for

1370
01:18:22,377 --> 01:18:27,577
sunrise because when I was sober I felt
like it was just a new day and and just

1371
01:18:27,577 --> 01:18:32,257
the sunrise and I was actually awake at
sunrise without been hammered the night

1372
01:18:32,257 --> 01:18:35,817
before and it was like Wow, this is
amazing.

1373
01:18:35,817 --> 01:18:36,105
I

1374
01:18:36,105 --> 01:18:42,945
So Sunrise Sobriety, my tagline is wide
awake to an alcohol free life because I

1375
01:18:42,945 --> 01:18:44,585
felt wide awake, still do.

1376
01:18:44,585 --> 01:18:48,565
So I post a lot of positive psychology
content there.

1377
01:18:48,565 --> 01:18:54,725
And also on LinkedIn, I'm Liz Folan, MSC
positive psych because I paid a lot of

1378
01:18:54,725 --> 01:18:55,655
money for my MSC.

1379
01:18:55,655 --> 01:18:58,005
So I may as well stick that at the end of
my name.

1380
01:18:59,185 --> 01:19:02,825
I'm bloody, I'm bloody wearing that
because I paid for it.

1381
01:19:02,825 --> 01:19:05,001
So it is a bit.

1382
01:19:05,001 --> 01:19:06,001
clunky as well.

1383
01:19:06,001 --> 01:19:06,861
I might change it.

1384
01:19:06,861 --> 01:19:07,831
I'll change it eventually.

1385
01:19:07,831 --> 01:19:11,081
But at the moment I'm leaving that there
just for another while just to milk it for

1386
01:19:11,081 --> 01:19:12,501
as much as I can.

1387
01:19:13,781 --> 01:19:20,461
And yeah, and yeah, I do a little radio
slot every Friday morning on Liverpool

1388
01:19:20,461 --> 01:19:25,681
local radio called Liverpool live radio
.com with a guy called Roy Bassner.

1389
01:19:25,681 --> 01:19:27,061
It's feel good Friday.

1390
01:19:27,061 --> 01:19:31,657
And I usually have guests on we talk about
positive psychology, we talk about habits.

1391
01:19:31,657 --> 01:19:35,737
We talk about exercise, we talk about
everything that you can do to nourish

1392
01:19:35,737 --> 01:19:36,637
yourself.

1393
01:19:36,637 --> 01:19:37,517
And I love it.

1394
01:19:37,517 --> 01:19:38,837
And it's between 11 and 12.

1395
01:19:38,837 --> 01:19:44,427
So you can get that on the Listen Again
feature, or you can listen to it online.

1396
01:19:44,427 --> 01:19:45,877
You can listen to it on your phone.

1397
01:19:45,877 --> 01:19:49,737
Or if you're in the north west of England,
you can hear it as you're driving around

1398
01:19:49,737 --> 01:19:51,837
if you want to.

1399
01:19:51,897 --> 01:19:53,837
But yeah, that's every Friday.

1400
01:19:53,837 --> 01:19:57,957
And yeah, that's basically where you can
find me on the

1401
01:19:58,282 --> 01:20:05,282
I'd love to hear from anybody if they're
interested in maybe trying sobriety or if

1402
01:20:05,282 --> 01:20:08,522
you're like me and you think, yeah, I
don't drink every day.

1403
01:20:08,522 --> 01:20:13,392
I don't drink all day, you know, but I do
seem to drink quite a lot.

1404
01:20:13,392 --> 01:20:16,006
I have a dodgy off switch when it comes to
booze.

1405
01:20:16,006 --> 01:20:19,546
and you might be questioning it, then I
would love to talk to you.

1406
01:20:19,546 --> 01:20:21,606
I don't care who's out there.

1407
01:20:21,606 --> 01:20:26,546
I'm always there to listen and to support
because there were people there for me

1408
01:20:26,546 --> 01:20:28,306
when I needed them.

1409
01:20:28,306 --> 01:20:31,048
So, yeah, it'd be nice to hear from
people.

1410
01:20:31,548 --> 01:20:32,528
That is wonderful.

1411
01:20:32,528 --> 01:20:38,498
And I'm sure with the energy and the self
-compassion and how you've shared today,

1412
01:20:38,498 --> 01:20:42,348
there will be people reaching out to you
because you've just got that lovely warm

1413
01:20:42,348 --> 01:20:44,868
feeling that it's okay.

1414
01:20:44,868 --> 01:20:46,668
It's okay to fxxk up.

1415
01:20:46,908 --> 01:20:49,908
Life goes on and the awareness and
everything.

1416
01:20:49,908 --> 01:20:51,298
And I think that is super.

1417
01:20:51,298 --> 01:20:52,487
And thank you.

1418
01:20:53,448 --> 01:20:54,076
Yeah.

1419
01:20:54,076 --> 01:20:55,476
And it's so true, isn't it?

1420
01:20:55,476 --> 01:20:56,506
It's just so true.

1421
01:20:56,506 --> 01:20:59,686
There's so many people who are in pain,
Hamish.

1422
01:20:59,686 --> 01:21:01,666
And so many people who are suffering.

1423
01:21:01,666 --> 01:21:05,586
And this is what Martin Seligman, who set
up Positive Psychology, went down and

1424
01:21:05,586 --> 01:21:09,586
invested all the money into it when he
became the president of the American

1425
01:21:09,586 --> 01:21:12,926
Psychological Association back in 2000.

1426
01:21:12,926 --> 01:21:15,986
He was sick of seeing people languishing
and stuck.

1427
01:21:15,986 --> 01:21:18,546
All the money was going into the
suffering.

1428
01:21:18,546 --> 01:21:20,016
But what about the rest of us?

1429
01:21:20,016 --> 01:21:22,310
What about people who were just there?

1430
01:21:22,406 --> 01:21:24,826
Living lives of quiet desperation.

1431
01:21:25,166 --> 01:21:27,106
You know, I see them all the time.

1432
01:21:27,106 --> 01:21:28,116
There's no need for it.

1433
01:21:28,116 --> 01:21:30,588
There's no need for it.

1434
01:21:30,588 --> 01:21:32,388
Absolutely not.

1435
01:21:33,008 --> 01:21:36,048
Well, I have one last question for you
Liz.

1436
01:21:36,268 --> 01:21:38,748
And this question is a very important
question.

1437
01:21:38,748 --> 01:21:40,808
What is your superpower?

1438
01:21:40,808 --> 01:21:45,356
What was the gift or the superpower you
got from your awakening?

1439
01:21:45,894 --> 01:21:51,494
Yeah, I would say my superpower is
sobriety.

1440
01:21:51,994 --> 01:21:54,294
It is sobriety, 100%.

1441
01:21:54,294 --> 01:21:57,364
Yeah, it's, and I say, and I share that
with everyone.

1442
01:21:57,364 --> 01:22:00,834
And I say that myself on my own podcast,
because we ask the same question.

1443
01:22:00,834 --> 01:22:05,914
And I get the students when I work with
teenagers to find out their superpowers.

1444
01:22:05,914 --> 01:22:09,614
And I usually use it for character
strengths, you know, tell them what your

1445
01:22:09,614 --> 01:22:10,886
superpower is.

1446
01:22:10,886 --> 01:22:15,366
But I will tell them it's sobriety for me
because my superpower gives me my

1447
01:22:15,366 --> 01:22:18,426
authenticity and my clarity.

1448
01:22:18,506 --> 01:22:23,446
And I think that that authenticity enables
me to reach other people, like you were

1449
01:22:23,446 --> 01:22:29,026
saying, and the people who shared
authentically before me were able to reach

1450
01:22:29,026 --> 01:22:29,886
me.

1451
01:22:29,886 --> 01:22:32,246
So I think that can save people.

1452
01:22:32,246 --> 01:22:35,286
So as a result, that makes it, it saved
me.

1453
01:22:35,286 --> 01:22:37,546
My sobriety saved me.

1454
01:22:37,546 --> 01:22:39,346
And I think as a result,

1455
01:22:39,366 --> 01:22:45,186
That sobriety saves so many other people
and will continue to save people as long

1456
01:22:45,186 --> 01:22:46,406
as I'm on this planet.

1457
01:22:46,406 --> 01:24:27,426
That's my superpower.

1458
01:24:27,426 --> 01:24:28,526
It's a great question.

1459
01:24:28,526 --> 01:24:29,466
It's a great question.

1460
01:24:29,466 --> 01:24:30,826
Have you had some good answers?

1461
01:24:30,826 --> 01:24:31,864
I bet you have.

1462
01:24:31,864 --> 01:24:34,144
have had so good answers, yes.

1463
01:24:34,544 --> 01:24:41,944
And what often happens is, "Hmm, what is
my superpower?" There is a pause for a

1464
01:24:41,944 --> 01:24:46,304
couple of seconds and then, because
everyone knows what their superpower is

1465
01:24:46,304 --> 01:24:54,384
because they've, they're living it and it
just pours out and it's lovely to see and

1466
01:24:54,384 --> 01:24:55,754
it surprises people.

1467
01:24:56,178 --> 01:24:56,858
yeah.

1468
01:24:56,858 --> 01:25:01,718
That's why I love working with character
strengths, because people don't realise

1469
01:25:01,718 --> 01:25:04,898
what their strengths are, but they do.

1470
01:25:05,038 --> 01:25:10,118
And a lot of the time they get the results
and go, yeah, and yeah, I know that.

1471
01:25:10,118 --> 01:25:16,178
But also a lot of the time they get the
results and kind of go, yes, I'm so glad I

1472
01:25:16,178 --> 01:25:20,758
got creativity or, God, I'm so glad I
didn't get bloody prudence as my top one.

1473
01:25:20,758 --> 01:25:22,358
That's me.

1474
01:25:23,462 --> 01:25:24,422
or humility.

1475
01:25:24,422 --> 01:25:25,342
Jesus, who needs that?

1476
01:25:25,342 --> 01:25:26,682
It's overrated.

1477
01:25:27,462 --> 01:25:30,922
But to me, there are some boring ones, but
it's so funny.

1478
01:25:30,922 --> 01:25:35,622
But without fail, the people who get, you
know, when they get their results, they

1479
01:25:35,622 --> 01:25:37,442
like their top five.

1480
01:25:37,442 --> 01:25:39,282
Nobody's like, I don't want that.

1481
01:25:39,282 --> 01:25:40,922
I wanted this one.

1482
01:25:40,922 --> 01:25:43,822
Most people want humor to be in their top
five.

1483
01:25:43,822 --> 01:25:45,722
It's really mad, isn't it?

1484
01:25:45,722 --> 01:25:47,322
But it makes sense.

1485
01:25:47,322 --> 01:25:49,162
But yeah, you'll have to do that.

1486
01:25:49,162 --> 01:25:51,904
Have you done the VIA character strength
test?

1487
01:25:51,904 --> 01:26:01,042
something I want to, I want

1488
01:26:01,042 --> 01:26:02,722
Get everybody, I really urge you.

1489
01:26:02,722 --> 01:26:08,102
And if you do do it and you want to reach
out, listeners, then reach out to me and

1490
01:26:08,102 --> 01:26:09,802
tell me what your strengths are.

1491
01:26:09,802 --> 01:26:14,322
Because part of my Rise Sunshine
Challenge, that obviously me and my

1492
01:26:14,322 --> 01:26:19,202
challenges, the current challenge is all
through the summer, I want people to do

1493
01:26:19,202 --> 01:26:22,162
four things, R -I -S -E.

1494
01:26:22,322 --> 01:26:23,974
I always have to have acronyms.

1495
01:26:23,974 --> 01:26:29,614
So R is for reflection, I is for
inspiration, S is for self awareness and

1496
01:26:29,614 --> 01:26:34,194
self thought and self talk and E is for
exercise.

1497
01:26:34,194 --> 01:26:37,714
There's always an exercise component to
all of my challenges.

1498
01:26:37,714 --> 01:26:39,174
R is reflection.

1499
01:26:39,174 --> 01:26:41,474
I want you to write down one, two, three.

1500
01:26:41,474 --> 01:26:46,994
one win from the previous 24 hours, two
strengths that you have used.

1501
01:26:46,994 --> 01:26:50,374
So that means you'll have to do the VIA
strengths test so you know what the rest

1502
01:26:50,374 --> 01:26:51,782
of the 24 are.

1503
01:26:51,782 --> 01:26:54,252
go and reflect over them and then write
them.

1504
01:26:54,252 --> 01:27:00,202
And three, gratitude, because gratitude as
a practice we know is absolutely

1505
01:27:00,202 --> 01:27:01,082
transformational.

1506
01:27:01,082 --> 01:27:03,262
But now we know the science behind it.

1507
01:27:03,262 --> 01:27:05,442
It's even more powerful.

1508
01:27:05,662 --> 01:27:07,682
The i bit is inspiration.

1509
01:27:07,682 --> 01:27:09,872
So I have a little book club.

1510
01:27:09,872 --> 01:27:12,022
So every month I have a new title.

1511
01:27:12,022 --> 01:27:20,402
This month's title, in fact, I think it's
here, is only because it's cheap and in

1512
01:27:20,402 --> 01:27:21,510
Tesco at the moment.

1513
01:27:21,510 --> 01:27:23,450
ultra -processed people.

1514
01:27:23,450 --> 01:27:25,450
It's half price in Tesco.

1515
01:27:27,010 --> 01:27:34,430
But also because this fella, Chris Van
Tolican, he was interviewed on Diary of a

1516
01:27:34,430 --> 01:27:38,350
CEO last week and it was a brilliant,
brilliant interview.

1517
01:27:38,350 --> 01:27:42,050
And it's so interesting because I'm always
struggling with nourishment.

1518
01:27:42,050 --> 01:27:44,190
And this is actually helping me.

1519
01:27:44,310 --> 01:27:48,770
The way my brain was reprogrammed with
booze when I read Annie Grace's This Naked

1520
01:27:48,770 --> 01:27:50,420
Mind, this is doing the same.

1521
01:27:50,502 --> 01:27:54,842
So it doesn't demonize food, but it just
lets you know what the story is behind it.

1522
01:27:54,842 --> 01:27:56,692
That's this month's one.

1523
01:27:56,692 --> 01:27:57,932
That's the inspiration bit.

1524
01:27:57,932 --> 01:28:01,562
So I want you to read for half an hour
every day or listen to a book or

1525
01:28:01,562 --> 01:28:02,562
something.

1526
01:28:02,562 --> 01:28:09,622
Previous books have been Atomic Habits by
James Clear, Nurt Isles, here we go.

1527
01:28:10,142 --> 01:28:11,962
Indistractable.

1528
01:28:12,502 --> 01:28:17,592
And yes, Amy Liptrot's The Outrun.

1529
01:28:17,592 --> 01:28:19,910
That was another one that I had on my
list.

1530
01:28:19,910 --> 01:28:24,030
and because I launched it in March, the
Badass Book Club for World Book Day

1531
01:28:24,030 --> 01:28:26,630
because I'm an English teacher by trade.

1532
01:28:27,490 --> 01:28:31,020
And then the S is self -awareness and self
-talk.

1533
01:28:31,020 --> 01:28:34,690
So I want you just not to write anything
or do anything just to be more aware of

1534
01:28:34,690 --> 01:28:35,970
your thoughts for the summer.

1535
01:28:35,970 --> 01:28:40,010
And E is exercise outdoors every day for
20 minutes at least.

1536
01:28:40,010 --> 01:28:44,490
And that's the Rise Sunshine Challenge
that I launched back at the beginning of

1537
01:28:44,490 --> 01:28:44,910
May.

1538
01:28:44,910 --> 01:28:45,720
We're now in June.

1539
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:46,940
I don't know when this goes out.

1540
01:28:46,940 --> 01:28:49,734
This might be a few weeks before this goes
out.

1541
01:28:49,734 --> 01:28:51,834
But this will go out in the summer, won't
it?

1542
01:28:51,834 --> 01:28:53,054
Do you think you'll launch this?

1543
01:28:53,054 --> 01:28:55,144
So this will be going on all summer long.

1544
01:28:55,144 --> 01:28:59,874
So whenever you come to this podcast in
the summer, and if you do happen to come

1545
01:28:59,874 --> 01:29:03,894
to it later in the year, there'll be
another challenge, because I always have

1546
01:29:03,894 --> 01:29:04,634
challenges.

1547
01:29:04,634 --> 01:29:09,294
But usually there's going to be a
reflective piece, a reading piece, a

1548
01:29:09,294 --> 01:29:13,274
thought piece, and an exercise piece to
all my challenges, because I think they're

1549
01:29:13,274 --> 01:29:16,614
the four pillars that keep me sane every
day.

1550
01:29:16,614 --> 01:29:19,950
And it's just about consistency, showing
up every day.

1551
01:29:19,974 --> 01:29:20,954
to do it.

1552
01:29:20,954 --> 01:29:24,694
But yeah, don't know how did we get onto
that talking about our superpowers, wasn't

1553
01:29:24,694 --> 01:29:24,874
it?

1554
01:29:24,874 --> 01:29:25,694
Yes.

1555
01:29:25,694 --> 01:29:26,314
Yes.

1556
01:29:26,314 --> 01:29:29,546
Yeah, to give you the link for the VIA
character strengths.

1557
01:29:29,596 --> 01:29:33,836
Cool, well, I will definitely be your
R.I.S.E challenge.

1558
01:29:33,836 --> 01:29:35,516
I do the exercise every day.

1559
01:29:35,516 --> 01:29:39,276
I do my gratitude every day and 100 %
agreement with you.

1560
01:29:39,276 --> 01:29:41,686
It is so powerful.

1561
01:29:41,686 --> 01:29:44,836
It allows me just to remember what I did
yesterday.

1562
01:29:45,156 --> 01:29:48,736
And if I can just be grateful for cleaning
my teeth because the rest of the day has

1563
01:29:48,736 --> 01:29:51,136
been rubbish, I've cleaned my teeth.

1564
01:29:51,656 --> 01:29:53,236
It is so powerful.

1565
01:29:53,236 --> 01:29:54,986
just anything at all.

1566
01:29:54,986 --> 01:29:58,166
It's knowing that it doesn't have to be a
big thing.

1567
01:29:58,166 --> 01:29:58,966
It can be anything.

1568
01:29:58,966 --> 01:30:01,766
Just like listening to the birdsong
outside.

1569
01:30:02,006 --> 01:30:03,596
You know, we're gifted.

1570
01:30:03,596 --> 01:30:05,106
We're so blessed.

1571
01:30:05,106 --> 01:30:08,806
And when we count our blessings, our
blessings just come.

1572
01:30:08,806 --> 01:30:10,356
More blessings come, I think.

1573
01:30:10,356 --> 01:30:13,166
And I think that's a lovely mindset to
have.

1574
01:30:13,166 --> 01:30:18,686
And that's been really important as a tool
as well to help me when things have been

1575
01:30:18,686 --> 01:31:10,843
tough.

1576
01:31:11,602 --> 01:31:19,182
Liz, thank you ever so much for your time,
your enthusiasm, your challenges, the

1577
01:31:19,182 --> 01:31:21,522
Character Strengths website and
everything.

1578
01:31:21,522 --> 01:31:22,772
It's been fabulous.

1579
01:31:22,772 --> 01:31:24,220
Thank you so much.

1580
01:31:24,220 --> 01:31:28,240
it's been lovely to be here and to share
this with you as well.

1581
01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:31,260
Hamish, it's been lovely and I wish you
the best for the podcast.

1582
01:31:31,260 --> 01:31:33,540
I'm really looking forward to listening to
them.

1583
01:31:33,540 --> 01:31:34,920
They're going to be amazing.

1584
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:35,820
So well done.

1585
01:31:35,820 --> 01:31:36,860
I'm glad you're doing this.

1586
01:31:36,860 --> 01:31:38,758
It's going to be a great project.

1587
01:31:38,758 --> 01:31:40,073
Thank you ever so much.

1588
01:31:40,855 --> 01:31:44,435
Thank you for listening to this episode of
The Crucible, Conversations for the

1589
01:31:44,435 --> 01:31:45,215
Curious.

1590
01:31:45,215 --> 01:31:48,815
If these powerful stories of
transformation resonated with you, be sure

1591
01:31:48,815 --> 01:31:52,795
to like, subscribe and share this show
with anyone who you think could do with a

1592
01:31:52,795 --> 01:31:54,795
dose of inspiration for their own journey.

1593
01:31:54,795 --> 01:31:58,055
I would really appreciate it if you could
make any comments on your favourite

1594
01:31:58,055 --> 01:32:01,375
podcast platform as well, that helps me
reach more people.

1595
01:32:01,375 --> 01:32:04,835
All the important links and information
are in the show notes below.

1596
01:32:04,835 --> 01:32:07,919
Thank you very much for listening and
catch up with you soon.