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Racquet Fuel provides insights into the best practices and innovations of racquets industry business leaders.
Co-hosts Kim Bastable, Director of Professional Tennis Management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, Senior Director Racquet Sports Development at the USTA National Campus, help racquets leaders in your ability to grow the game and to improve the experiences you offer to both your staff and players by talking to industry leaders, including USTA executives, authors and innovators. If you are on a career path in racquet sports or already a racquets business leader and you want to stay up to date on ideas and innovations in racquets industry business and leadership, this podcast is for you.
Presented by the Athlete+ Podcast Network at the University of Florida Institute for Coaching Excellence.
Welcome to Racquet Fuel, where we launch into great conversations and share powerful tools to help you become a stronger Racquet's leader. Your hosts are Kim Bastable, the former all American tennis player and now the director of tennis management at the University of Florida, and Simon Gale, the USTA senior director of Racquet Sports Development. Today on Racquet Fuel, the way to impact business results is to stop being a transactional leader and start being a caring connected leader. Three and Jackie Carpenter, authors of the book People First, share about the actions leaders need to take to motivate staff to provide excellence to customers and members. Profit, they say, is the applause for taking care of your people.
Episode Narration:Now here's Kim inside.
Kim Bastable:Welcome to Racquet Fuel. I'm Kim Bastable, and I am so excited to open up this topic of people and culture with and Jackie today. But first, how are you doing today, Simon?
Simon Gale:I'm doing fantastic. Thank you for asking, Kim. I'm super excited to have Three and Jackie on the podcast today. And the way this kind of came about was I met Three just recently at a leadership conference in Houston and after watching him march back and forth across the stage and completely exhaust me, The message that he was delivering was outstanding and I said to Kim, we got to get these two on on the podcast because the message was so simple but impactful and I really wanted to make sure we got them on. So excited to get this conversation started.
Three Carpenter:Well, thank you all very, very much. I have to tell you, Simon and Kim, we have enjoyed, as Simon just mentioned, getting to know you folks and we're so excited to be part of the podcast. You know, Jackie and I have had great fun talking about the message of our book and having that opportunity to do that with you today is something that we've really been looking for.
Jackie Carpenter:Yeah, we're excited to be here, so thank you.
Simon Gale:So can you guys summarize a little bit the message in your book and and particularly where the motivation came to write this book?
Jackie Carpenter:Yeah. Absolutely. So People First is the name of the book and it's really all about recognizing your employees as your business's most valuable assets rather than maybe tools used to build a profit or a product or an experience, which kind of was the common mindset, right, not very many years ago. And so it's really where we recognize that our employees have needs and feelings, and we take those into account as leaders. We've had great success creating these sort of thriving cultures, and we saw the incredible impact that it had on people's lives as well as our organizations.
Jackie Carpenter:We kind of naively thought that all businesses were doing these kinds of things. In all honesty, we were basically horrified to find out that not all business leaders cared about their employees or thought their employees were their most important assets. And so that was really our motivation for writing a book. And I know we kind of mentioned before we began the the actual podcast was this this process was was a long process, but it was something that became so important to us as really creating a road map. And it took us a while to write the book, but we did that because we wanted to create something other people could follow and really replicate those thriving cultures in their own organization.
Kim Bastable:So let's back up just a bit. We have a book here. But how did you both come into your knowledge on leadership? Can you kind of explain to our listeners your current professional roles, how leadership became such a passion?
Three Carpenter:Well, And thanks for asking, Kim. I have to tell you, was very, very fortunate. I'm from a small town in Iowa. I lived right next door to my hometown club. And by the time I was 14, I had been hanging around the golf shop so much that they put me on staff.
Three Carpenter:Ultimately, by the time I was a young teen, I had incredible leadership experience. It was in my sixteenth year, I was looking out the window one day and I thought to myself, if I could figure out a way to be able to lead people and work in an environment where people were having fun and really enjoying what they were doing, that I would really have a happy life. And it became the motivation for ultimately my career. And for me, I've spent thirty plus years now as a general manager of private country clubs around this country and all different states and all different parts of the country trying to create these incredibly strong employee cultures that then create these kind of amazing member experiences. And so it's really been great fun and really led a lot to the book.
Jackie Carpenter:I always like it when Three does my background because I always feel like he does it better. But I kind of at a young age as well started in the hospitality business, was kind of working around it and I didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life until I realized that hospitality management could really be a role for me. And so I got my undergraduate in hospitality management and then actually went back for a graduate degree in hospitality management. I began working at private clubs right out of college and really fell in love with it. And then for the last eleven years, I have been the editor of The Private Club Advisor, which is one of the main publications for the private club industry.
Jackie Carpenter:So I kind of tripped on writing, which was beneficial when it came to wanting to write a book.
Kim Bastable:That's very interesting. So where did the two of you connect? Were you in hospitality and then you connected? Or Yes. I guess that might be the obvious thing Yeah.
Kim Bastable:Given the story.
Three Carpenter:Yeah. So Jackie hospitality. We had kind of run into each other through the club industry. And then as she was kind of really getting started, I had this unbelievable opportunity at a club that I was at in Des Moines. So her first kind of major role beyond her incredible internship that she had in Colorado was in Des Moines at a club called Wakanda Club.
Three Carpenter:We worked together there and then down in Dallas at Dallas Country Club. Those experiences were quite extraordinary for both of us, both young in our careers. But for Jackie in particular, when she was in Dallas, we had three seventy five people on that team. And so her role was like a chief of staff. So ultimately, she hired everybody, literally all departments and they all reported to her.
Three Carpenter:So it was kind of an amazing thing to really hone in on all these ideas. And for me, I've always been sort of the idea guy, right? And I had this idea of wanting to create these things. Jackie has this incredible ability to implement those things at a very organized operational level. So we really did that really, really well together.
Three Carpenter:And then one that ultimately translated into the stories that, you know, we wrote the book about.
Simon Gale:And to elaborate on the stories a little bit, I think it's one of the great things about your book really resonates is and Jackie mentioned this pre call that there's all these stories we wrote down and we turned it into a book and all these stories from our experiences. And one of the ones you talk about in the book is where you reference asking your club staff, why does our club exist? And you explain it that it's part of defining the club's MVP, the mission, the vision and the purpose. Can you explain to the people listening how and why they need to have this or start this MVP process?
Three Carpenter:Well, absolutely. You know, it's a funny thing, the why thing is what really matters to people. The what you're doing thing can get kind of mundane, right? You could have a role where every day you're hitting tennis balls to someone you're trying to teach a lesson to or you're serving a hamburger in a dining room. But the reality is the why, right?
Three Carpenter:And when you start digging into that piece and start explaining it, it really motivates people at a different level. So we started to really push the issue of, you know, what are we really doing? Why are we really doing it? And that really changed kind of the way everybody looked at it. So I think we overcomplicate this and all too often our mission statements are too long, not terribly relevant.
Three Carpenter:So employees can't really remember them or repeat them and they aren't inspiring or interesting when in reality that is exactly what those words mean. Jackie says this to me all the time, but your words are powerful. If you say something negative, oh, I'm fat, well then you kind of are, right? You think that way. If I'm happy, you know, you are that too.
Three Carpenter:And it's really true when you start to translate that into the power of those words and what you're really trying to achieve. Is creating this roadmap for everybody on your team to be on the same page and with powerful words that everyone has worked collaboratively to create together. The synergy that that brings and the ability to look at those few words and know that's where I'm headed, man, that's that's incredibly powerful.
Jackie Carpenter:Yeah. It's really just about clarifying that purpose and really, you know, what you're doing, which is your mission. Right? Why you're doing it, which is your purpose, and how you're going to do it, which really comes out in your core in your values. And so making sure those are inspiring and relevant is really important to make sure everybody's moving forward together in the right direction.
Three Carpenter:People today care more about connecting with the organization's why. Right? I think the purpose piece is so really important. So we really believe strongly that's where you've got to start because it's not just about your title or the task day to day, it's really about you know, what they're doing and the why they're doing it that really matters.
Simon Gale:I think for our listeners who are leaders of Racquet Sports operations for the most part, we're always looking to to what's the why of our customers, why are people on a tennis court and it's not for forehands and backhands and there's people who want to get better and they want to go to the Nationals and go from a three o to a three five level or whatever their aspirations are. But the minute a coach has the light bulb go off and they understand why people play tennis, I think that's when you start to retain more clients and you have a more successful business. So I think this really resonates at all levels of leadership. So let's transition into staff and hiring and keeping people. There's a general thought I think that hiring is probably one of the most important things a leader does and hiring the right people is critical.
Simon Gale:However, the biggest challenge once you have good people is to retain them. And we all know that retention is generally an issue and the turnover rate can be a problem at a lot of facilities. So I want you to explain the importance of someone's role as a leader. In an industry right now where we're struggling to fill jobs and we're all searching for good people. I think retention and quality of candidate is at an all time high.
Simon Gale:So what are your guys' thoughts on that?
Jackie Carpenter:Yeah. So you hit the nail on the head, Simon. You know, if you're a leader of an organization, you better be real focused on your retention right now because, you know, it used to be sort of the mindset was, oh, employees are a dime a dozen. If you don't like it here, then go on. Well, there's not more people behind you that we can fill the hole with.
Jackie Carpenter:Right? And that's not the case anymore. The majority of businesses are operating short staffed, which that makes it harder for everybody. Frankly, that makes it harder to keep the other people, right, in your organization when everybody's overworked or, you know, struggling to keep up and stressed out. And so leaders have to be focused on creating upbeat work cultures and positive employee experiences.
Jackie Carpenter:More people are gonna be looking elsewhere even, you know, even if they have a pretty sweet gig with you and they go, oh, you know what, though? I can make 50 more cents an hour down the street. I think I'll go check that out. And here's the thing that we kind of remind people, especially leaders today when it comes to retention, is the grass is always greener somewhere else or so it seems, right, to our people. And so we've gotta be giving them reasons to be staying.
Jackie Carpenter:We need to be listening to them. I I heard a quote and I'm gonna botch it now, but it was all about being super in tune with your employees and really listening to them because it is more mission critical than it ever has been before because we wanna be able to keep those people. And I think the the key thing is really about creating positive employee experiences. And we have always been probably really good at creating great member and customer experiences and not really caring as much about the employee experience. And we will tell you today, you almost have to flip it around and care more about your employee experience.
Jackie Carpenter:Because if your employees are happy and they're showing up for work, that's a good thing. You're probably going to have better or great customer and member experiences. But if you don't have the employees, guess what? You're not gonna be able to provide great member or customer experiences. So we really have to be listening to our employees' needs and feelings and wants and creating a culture of learning and knowledge sharing.
Three Carpenter:Well, simple thought, you know, it's an old cliche, right, which is you get out of it what you put into it. Frequently, you know, I'm busy just like everybody else. You get doing your day to day, you know, you're in these ops and all of a sudden you kind of forget to go and spend the time necessary to, you know, help grow the, you know, your core people. And this story just, it made so much sense to me. But, you know, back in the day, you think back to the idea of the days of the blacksmith in your community and this was an incredibly important role.
Three Carpenter:This was the center of that town and the way that worked, that village, right? The way that worked was the apprentice had honed this craft. They were the best they could possibly be just like Racquet professionals. They are probably the best players, the best teachers, they're the best. But the tragedy is if they aren't growing and spending the time really investing in their people and growing them to be as good or better than each one of them, then that skill sort of dies with that professional, right?
Three Carpenter:So in the idea of the blacksmith, imagine that. The blacksmith goes all the way through and is the best and is literally the center of the community and the way that used to work is they would bring an apprentice in. But that was like a completely different thing. The apprentice moved in, was like living in the house with the blacksmith, was literally part of the family and was learning the craft day to day to day to day so that one day when that blacksmith wasn't doing it, they could take on all that role and had that incredible skill. Today, I will tell you, because I have all kinds of leaders say things to me about, oh, you know, I'm so busy.
Three Carpenter:I just don't have time to spend on the retention piece. I don't have time to, you know, spend on the education or the internships or any of those kind of things. And Jackie and I have said it a thousand times. It's the opposite. You have to prioritize that investment in your people to create this incredible entity, this incredible experience because the challenge becomes, no matter how good you are, you individually, there's just too much to do today for Racquet professionals around our country to be able to do it all.
Three Carpenter:They've got to create a great team of people to carry all of that forward but they've got to be doing it at the same level.
Simon Gale:And that's a tremendous story and a great point and I use phrase here or the or I'm constantly reminding my team, if it's not scheduled, it will not happen. So put it in your calendar and make sure your one to ones, your team meetings are scheduled and there's a regular cadence of communication or six months goes by and you've never gotten to that conversation about how are you doing and how do we make you better and it's an investment in time but as you say, day to day takes so much time that it slips your mind and you don't get to it. So it's a great story and and and appreciate you sharing.
Kim Bastable:So so I would follow-up and ask the question, when did things change? When when did this need to really care more about your employees, grow your employees. Did it change? Did we forget it? Did we just lose it?
Kim Bastable:Like, in your experience, why is it so important now, or has it always been so important that we just didn't do it? I don't know how you'd respond to that.
Jackie Carpenter:Oh, all of the above, Kim. Three and I would say it's always been important. We always should have been doing it. However, through the pandemic, things shifted pretty dramatically because all of a sudden, there was a labor shortage. Right?
Jackie Carpenter:And leaders all of a sudden had to say, oh, what? I have to, like, care about my people now to in order to keep them before I could just, you know, funnel people in and out. It didn't really matter. It was sort of I mean, we say our book was perfectly timed to the who who would have known a pandemic, right, would bring this about and really create this people first, you know, revolution, so to speak. But it used to be a competitive advantage.
Jackie Carpenter:Today, you've got to be doing this or people aren't gonna be sticking around.
Kim Bastable:Fascinating. I I think it is interesting how the the COVID has changed things. I actually heard the other day that in some industries, I can't understand this, people are accepting more than one job, and then they're literally not showing up for a couple of those, just never letting the employer know. So employers are are just like they're off making offers, and they're and they're not sure if that person's gonna actually show up on day one. Yeah.
Kim Bastable:I don't know. I just think things have changed. I can't I can't I I can't really believe people do that. But anyway, that's just an aside comment. Let me just throw.
Kim Bastable:This may follow the next question though. Tennis players are normally sort of selfish. I think by nature, we are an individual sport. We're not a team sport, so you kind of, you know, you gotta fend for yourself out there. Could this hurt leadership in our industry because this mindset, you know, grows from kind of a young age and many of the people who are in leadership now were previously fairly competitive players, if not very competitive.
Three Carpenter:Well, Kim, I mean, you're a 100% right. You know, it's not a bad thing, but the competitive nature that made some of our great racket professionals all around this country great is literally something that then becomes counterintuitive when it comes to building a business. That has to be collaborative, which seems, you know, very hard and that's a big trans transition, I would say for a lot of those professionals, will tell you that the idea of being a bit disruptive as a leader has incredible value. So imagine if you're one of the first Racquet professionals to embrace this idea that if I change my competitive way and make it terribly collaborative and then have our team being competitive towards, you know, doing really, really well, but not just as an individual, but as that team really changes things. We do a great deal of work with a very large real estate company around the country and it's a funny comparison to the Racquet Professional, which is humorously, this, say a real estate agent might be the literal best in their state, you know, the top, but they were great alone and all of a sudden realized, wait a minute, that isn't gonna work.
Three Carpenter:Today, I've gotta be able to have a group of me out there doing it at the same level, right? Sort of the power of many over the power of one, no matter how strong that one is. We find this shift takes a minute and it has to be intentional. But when we start going down that road, it is an absolute night and day experience. So we can't recommend this idea more.
Simon Gale:When you talk about leadership, that's not something that is really taught in the Racquet's profession. You're taught how to teach beforehand, how to manage a team, how to run a practice and how to serve customers and serve members and treat them well, that sort of thing. So you can develop leadership skills through coaching, but it's not a pathway really in our industry to leadership. So the power of mentoring as you've talked about and the investment of time, how important is it that when you're first in the industry or seeking out leadership, how important is it who you work for then versus say, making an extra $2 an hour per lesson down the road? How important is the person you work with or for in shaping perhaps your future in the industry?
Jackie Carpenter:Well, it's extremely important. In fact, Simon, we tell people that when they go in for an interview, they should be interviewing the company, the person just as much as they're being interviewed for the position because it does have to be a matchup for that. Like, you wanna work for people who wanna invest in you and it isn't all about the money.
Three Carpenter:Well, and it's it's not just because I love what you just said. You know, you think, well gee, I'm gonna go work at this club or this Racquet's location because boy, it's pretty and it's got a big fancy name. But you go in and you meet the leadership and you go, oh gosh, this maybe isn't gonna be the best thing for me. Then you look at another one that might be a step down in the sense of being not as glamorous and you meet the leadership and you think, Wow, I am gonna learn a ton there. But it's not just the person that you're gonna report to, it's the fact that the person you're going to report to has surrounded themselves absolutely with these great leaders.
Three Carpenter:So the people that you're working shoulder to shoulder with, the people that are going to report to you, right, that all those people have this sort of leadership culture. When that exists, your entity thrives at a completely different level. And Jackie and I will tell you, as much as we like to hope we have had some impact on the people we have worked with from a leadership position, We will tell you that many, many, many people that have reported to us that we have learned absolutely as much from them and still to this day use those same folks just to help continue to grow our strengths and experiences. And one just quick thing that I'd add to what you said, Simon, it's jumping into these classes. It's podcasts.
Three Carpenter:It's great books. There is so much opportunity to expand your strengths as a leader, and and today, the access to that is kind of unlimited.
Kim Bastable:So you said two things in the pre call that we were that really, opened my eyes and I think were insightful, and I'd like you to kinda unpack them for our listeners. One is that people out there are lonely. So that means, you know, many employees are generally lonely. So I'd be curious to know, you know, what's the data or what tells you that. Of course, what impact does that have regarding leadership?
Kim Bastable:And then the second thing is that leaders seem to need permission to truly care about those they lead. You know, there was a football coach once that I saw on the sidelines who would kiss his players as they actually came off the field. And there were some eye opening responses to that, a lot of photos that got captured because, boy, that just doesn't seem like normal. But how do leaders need permission? And and tell us about this loneliness epidemic.
Jackie Carpenter:Yes. So, Kim, people are lonelier than ever. In fact, in our book, we cited a study from 2019 that said that sixty one percent of Americans over the age of 18 were lonely. And that's a pretty staggering number, and that was pre pandemic. Now we live in a world where you don't have to ever leave your house.
Jackie Carpenter:Everything's delivered to you. Everything comes to you. You can work from home, do everything. And so people are disconnected. In fact, one in four adults today say that they are lonely, and that's across the world.
Jackie Carpenter:It's not just here in The United States. But the surgeon general of The US declared loneliness an epidemic in May. Let that sink in. Like, that I mean, that makes me, like, wanna cry. Right?
Jackie Carpenter:But it also we kinda come at it from the standpoint of look at the opportunity that exists for leaders today to to we talk about retention, you know, and keeping employees. Connect them with each other. Create a community, not just for your members and your customers and your clients, but for your employees. And when we say that, we mean everybody doesn't have to be best friends or dating. That's not what we're saying, but it's that they know each other more than just a name and a title.
Jackie Carpenter:And it comes back to this whole purpose notion where people are coming together in a place that's upbeat and positive, and they're working towards one goal. That's really what people are seeking. And this kind of leads to then this sort of notion of giving people permission. And because, you know, a lot of us grew up in a work environment where we weren't supposed to care about our employees. We didn't wanna know anything about like, we don't wanna know what you do on the weekends.
Jackie Carpenter:We only care about you when you're here within these four walls. Well, that's not real. We can't, you know, disconnect ourselves as an employee and just show up, you know, and leave everything else that we're dealing with at home. If my mom has cancer, I'm dealing with that at work. It's impacting me.
Jackie Carpenter:And so if we can embrace that and ask questions about how you're doing and what you need and hey, I know that your mom is sick. What can I do to support you? You need some time off, please let us know. If we can do those things, we can change our organizations pretty dramatically and show our people that this is a caring place to be. So we urge leaders, and actually here, I'm gonna say the words, we give you permission to care about your employees.
Simon Gale:That's interesting though, isn't it? Because it wasn't that long ago that caring and being sensitive was considered to be a bit more of a soft leader or you wouldn't And have an now that's flipped. And it's, I think that style of leadership is less impactful and this concept you're talking about is what's necessary and it's clearly post pandemic absolutely necessary keep a team together and keep them aligned on where we're all headed. So one of the things that we wanna try and always get out of great guests is what's that magic dust or the pixie dust or the secret sauce that one can walk away with and we've heard 30 of great content, how do you summarize it and say, this is the golden nugget you need to take away from our book and our philosophy?
Three Carpenter:I got one. Alright, so this is a big one because it's funny, much like you just were granted permission, here's one, it's time to be brave. And that seems really funny because you know, all go to work, we do our thing, we're all leaders. It's time to be brave and bold and be a disruptor. We talked a minute ago about being a disruptor, doing it a little differently than the norm.
Three Carpenter:When you think of the great companies and the incredible success stories, a whole bunch of people made telephones and Apple just did it different and they changed the whole world. Amazon sold stuff, kinda whole different thing, right? Those people are disruptors. They came up with that. In every small example, we all have it, but the difference is you've got to be brave and bold and be that disruptor, change the way the things have always been and have the guts, and I mean this, have the absolute courage to do it better and do it different.
Simon Gale:We're in an industry that has tended to do things the same way for a long time and Yep. It may take a new wave of leaders, which are naturally coming and we have leadership roles that need to be filled. It may take a new wave to disrupt more than maybe we have in the last couple of decades. So it's going be an interesting moment in time and three, I know you have directors of Racquet Sports at your facility and so on. So it's going to be interesting see how this plays out over the next ten, twenty years in our industry.
Jackie Carpenter:Absolutely. So my nugget of wisdom here to to leave everyone with is it's all about the employee experience and really focusing on our employees. And that simply comes down to this. It's about being more focused on people and less focused on tasks. Mine was shorter than threes, but, you know
Kim Bastable:That's the
Three Carpenter:way it always works.
Kim Bastable:The woman who wrote many words in the book has short words when it comes to the end.
Jackie Carpenter:We just condensed things, Kim.
Kim Bastable:I just We just simplified it down. We asked for a nugget. He asked for a pixie dust.
Jackie Carpenter:I that's good.
Kim Bastable:I think Yeah. Well, I hear I hear a couple things during this that were powerful. One, just flat out your words are powerful. I think that's my daily takeaway today. I mean, we we can make so much impact positively.
Kim Bastable:Sadly, we can do the same negatively. The role of a leader is to be that positive voice. And, you know, I like to say when I was raising my kids to catch them being good, know, comment on all the good things they do, we just sort of don't see those things we aren't so excited about. But I love the words of powerful. I love the brave.
Kim Bastable:I love the permission to really care about the disruptor. These are awesome topics. Couldn't have had a better time with you all. I think everyone should look up People First to get the details and some more of the great stories that that are in the book, and we just appreciate your time very much, both of you, for for being with us today on Racquet Fuel.
Jackie Carpenter:Thank you so much for happiness. What a pleasure.
Three Carpenter:Simon, Kim, thank you. My gosh. Always great to see you. We really enjoyed it.
Simon Gale:Appreciate it, and thanks again.
Episode Narration:That's all for today, but we're not out of fuel. You can find more information and resources in our show notes and by visiting racketfuelpodcast.com. If you liked what you just heard, please subscribe. And also, leave a review, which helps other people join the mission to become stronger Racquet's leaders.
Conclusion:This podcast is a production of Athlete Plus, the people, stories, science behind elite athletes and teams. Athlete Plus is the official podcast network of the Institute for Coaching Excellence, a research, education, and outreach center in the College of Health and Human Performance at the University of Florida. The Institute for Coaching Excellence offers various online certificate programs and degrees in partnership with the Department of Sport Management. Learn more today at coaching.hhp.ufl.edu.