WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.600 Welcome to the Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America. I'm Joel 2 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:07.200 Heitkamp. Heidi couldn't join me today, but you'll hear later with 3 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:10.600 Sonia Parras Konrad, an immigration attorney in 4 00:00:10.600 --> 00:00:14.080 Iowa. They had a great chat about her experience 5 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:17.920 dealing with the ridiculous and harsh administrative 6 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:21.680 policies like we're seeing now. And I got the joy of chatting 7 00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:25.400 with Bryan Little, Director of Labor Affairs for the California Farm 8 00:00:25.400 --> 00:00:29.050 Bureau. We talked about all things agriculture and 9 00:00:29.130 --> 00:00:32.650 labor and learned about the labor perspectives on 10 00:00:32.810 --> 00:00:36.650 all this. We're excited to hear from you. So let's get started with 11 00:00:36.650 --> 00:00:40.450 my conversation with Bryan Little. You know, we 12 00:00:40.450 --> 00:00:44.170 listen to your feedback here on the Hot Dish. We oftentimes ask 13 00:00:44.330 --> 00:00:48.090 what you're interested in, what you want us to bring to you. 14 00:00:48.650 --> 00:00:52.290 One of the things that's talked about is farm labor, what the current 15 00:00:52.290 --> 00:00:56.090 policies are doing to farm labor, how it is affecting those of us 16 00:00:56.950 --> 00:01:00.590 in the rural areas. Of course, that's one of the focuses 17 00:01:00.590 --> 00:01:03.990 of One Country and the Hot Dish. Well, Bryan Little is somebody who 18 00:01:03.990 --> 00:01:07.670 understands farm labor. In fact, what he does 19 00:01:07.990 --> 00:01:11.670 is best explained by him. He's our guest now. Bryan, 20 00:01:11.750 --> 00:01:15.350 good to have you on the Hot Dish. Thanks, Joel. I appreciate it. 21 00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:19.110 Actually, I joke at times that I spend 75% of my time working for Farm 22 00:01:19.110 --> 00:01:22.870 Bureau and 75% of my time working for Farm Employers Labor Service. 23 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:25.760 And I was just a poor dumb poli-sci major and even I can figure out 24 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:29.360 how that math worked. But there's a lot to do in California. We employ 25 00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:33.120 around 800,000 people that do some ag work at some point in the year. 26 00:01:33.520 --> 00:01:37.240 And during our peak harvesting seasons, we're employing about 480,000 people on 27 00:01:37.240 --> 00:01:40.760 any given day. So there's a lot there to chew on in terms of how 28 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.560 the state of California likes to regulate employment. And California loves 29 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:48.200 to regulate everything that moves. So there's a lot there that we have to 30 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:51.980 worry about. And then that's what I do for Farm Bureau is dealing with the 31 00:01:51.980 --> 00:01:55.540 legislature and dealing with our very active regulatory community 32 00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:59.340 that's part of California state government. And then the other half of my 33 00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:03.140 job is I run a small for profit company that California Farm Bureau owns 34 00:02:03.140 --> 00:02:06.900 that tries to help agricultural employers understand and do all the 35 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:10.300 things that the state and the feds want them to do in their capacity as 36 00:02:10.300 --> 00:02:14.020 employers. And that's a lot. We actually sat down and counted one day last year 37 00:02:14.180 --> 00:02:17.860 that farmers in California are expected to post 54 different 38 00:02:17.860 --> 00:02:21.500 things in their workplace to inform their employees about their 39 00:02:21.500 --> 00:02:25.300 various rights and other things like that that farmers are required to inform 40 00:02:25.300 --> 00:02:28.420 Them of and we have a product designed to make it easy for them to 41 00:02:28.420 --> 00:02:31.900 do that. So we try to be the easy button for farm employers. In California, 42 00:02:32.380 --> 00:02:36.100 I don't know what terms you use, but here in the Midwest we use bulletin 43 00:02:36.100 --> 00:02:39.940 board. So I don't know where you put 50 postings on a 44 00:02:39.940 --> 00:02:43.540 bulletin board. How big is the bulletin board? It's 45 00:02:43.540 --> 00:02:46.500 big. That's one of the problems we've been trying to get around. So we have 46 00:02:46.500 --> 00:02:50.150 this piece of agricultural equipment in California that we invented in 47 00:02:50.150 --> 00:02:53.750 2010 or so called the Shade Trailer. It's a two wheel trail 48 00:02:53.750 --> 00:02:57.430 that's basically a picnic table on a trailer that has wings that 49 00:02:57.430 --> 00:03:00.630 fold up to provide shade for people to sit on the trailer. Because of our 50 00:03:00.630 --> 00:03:04.350 Heat Illness Prevention standard requires employers of outdoor 51 00:03:04.350 --> 00:03:07.870 employees to provide shade for them to get into on a hot day. 52 00:03:08.350 --> 00:03:12.190 A lot of times you'll see ag employers will hang those posters underneath those 53 00:03:12.190 --> 00:03:15.970 wings so when they're folded out providing shade for people sitting at 54 00:03:15.970 --> 00:03:19.690 the picnic table, they can look up and see the posters. The requirement is 55 00:03:19.690 --> 00:03:23.450 that the posters have to be somewhere where employees can see them without having to 56 00:03:23.450 --> 00:03:27.290 ask to see them. So we've tried a lot of different things over the 57 00:03:27.290 --> 00:03:30.210 years and there really is no way around the fact that it just covers a 58 00:03:30.210 --> 00:03:34.010 lot of a lot of space and people are running out of places to 59 00:03:34.010 --> 00:03:37.730 put it. And yet our legislators and regulators keep adding 60 00:03:37.730 --> 00:03:41.330 new things that we have to provide postings on. Well, as a former 61 00:03:41.330 --> 00:03:45.050 legislator and someone who served in the North Dakota Senate for 14 years, 62 00:03:45.050 --> 00:03:48.840 you would not have a hard time making an argument with 63 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.400 me that you need to get rid of some of those 64 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.560 posters. It wouldn't be a hard argument to make at all. 65 00:03:55.880 --> 00:03:59.080 Bryan, want to talk a little bit about your background when it comes to labor? 66 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:02.960 I think this is universal, albeit the different commodities you 67 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:06.760 raise versus what we raise here in the middle of this 68 00:04:06.760 --> 00:04:10.440 country. The shortage, just the need, 69 00:04:10.600 --> 00:04:14.240 the qualification, the ability to do that level 70 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:17.560 of work every day. You know, a lot of people don't think of 71 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:21.379 agriculture culture when they think of California. Where are you at when it 72 00:04:21.379 --> 00:04:25.099 comes to labor? Well, California is the largest ag 73 00:04:25.099 --> 00:04:28.739 production state in the United States. Now given that California is a 74 00:04:28.739 --> 00:04:32.379 huge state, I mean it's 800 miles from the Oregon 75 00:04:32.379 --> 00:04:36.139 border to the Mexican border. So it's a big state and a lot of rural 76 00:04:36.139 --> 00:04:39.619 area people think of California, they think of the Bay Area and they think of 77 00:04:39.619 --> 00:04:43.339 the LA Basin. Maybe Fresno comes to mind occasionally, but 78 00:04:43.339 --> 00:04:46.530 for the most part that's what they think of. And Surfing and the beach and 79 00:04:46.530 --> 00:04:50.050 all that stuff. But we grow everything. We grow 400 different 80 00:04:50.050 --> 00:04:53.650 commodities in California. So we grow everything from avocados to zucchini. 81 00:04:53.970 --> 00:04:57.810 We're the largest dairy production state in the United States. So there's a 82 00:04:57.810 --> 00:05:01.010 lot going on here agriculturally. And that's why I was telling you about earlier 83 00:05:01.410 --> 00:05:05.250 that we have about 800,000 people that do at least one job at some point 84 00:05:05.250 --> 00:05:08.850 during the year, because that's how their employers report their taxes. 85 00:05:09.250 --> 00:05:12.890 And then during our peak harvesting seasons, which will kick off in about three weeks 86 00:05:12.890 --> 00:05:16.550 here, we'll be employing about 480,000 people every day doing 87 00:05:16.550 --> 00:05:19.870 something. And that will continue through about the middle of October. 88 00:05:20.350 --> 00:05:24.190 So there's something happening in California just about every day of the year, 89 00:05:24.590 --> 00:05:28.190 growing something. Wine, grapes, tree fruit, 90 00:05:28.270 --> 00:05:31.470 tree nuts, vegetables, leafy greens, 91 00:05:31.950 --> 00:05:35.790 fruit and vegetable, all berries. I mean, berries like you wouldn't believe. They're 92 00:05:35.790 --> 00:05:39.310 all over the place. We're doing our best to try to automate 93 00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:43.320 and as much of it as we can, because California agriculture is 94 00:05:43.320 --> 00:05:46.960 different from agriculture in the Midwest, where my brother in law 95 00:05:46.960 --> 00:05:50.120 will periodically send us video of himself watching South Dakota State 96 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:53.680 Jackrabbit's football on his laptop and his combine was 97 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:57.520 combining his beans. Well, you know, we don't, we don't have those kind of 98 00:05:57.520 --> 00:06:01.360 commodities and that kind of machinery in California that lends itself to that 99 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.080 kind of automation, although we're working on it as fast as we can. But 100 00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:08.700 try to imagine what kind of machine would be required to harvest strawberries. 101 00:06:09.500 --> 00:06:12.260 That, that machine has not been invented yet. And I don't know if we'll ever 102 00:06:12.260 --> 00:06:15.980 get there. Yeah, well, just two points there and what you just 103 00:06:15.980 --> 00:06:19.500 said. Number one, North Dakota State University beat 104 00:06:19.740 --> 00:06:23.260 South Dakota State University in the national championship this year. But I don't want to 105 00:06:23.260 --> 00:06:25.580 be petty and bring that up. Also 106 00:06:26.620 --> 00:06:30.420 zucchini, we raise it too. And the one time of 107 00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:34.100 year you lock your car is when it's zucchini season, because you 108 00:06:34.100 --> 00:06:36.820 don't want a bunch of people dropping it off in your car. And then you 109 00:06:36.820 --> 00:06:40.640 got to deal with it. Bryan, I want to talk the serious issue though, that 110 00:06:40.640 --> 00:06:44.280 we ended up bringing up here, which was just 111 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:48.200 the harvest, the seasonal harvest. How many of these workers are 112 00:06:48.200 --> 00:06:51.880 day workers or week workers? Most of 113 00:06:51.880 --> 00:06:55.519 them are going to be employed. It depends on the situation. Some 114 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:59.240 commodities have relatively short harvest periods. To give you an example, 115 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:03.120 sweet cherries in Lodi, which is about 25 116 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:06.880 miles south of Sacramento in Central Valley, that's about a three week 117 00:07:06.880 --> 00:07:10.680 harvest. But the people that are doing that work, they live 118 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:14.320 in Lodi and Stockton and Elk Grove and the other communities right 119 00:07:14.320 --> 00:07:17.480 around there. And they do that work for two or three weeks, and then they 120 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.160 go find other ag work to do in other parts of California. The people who 121 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:24.800 do ag work in California, that's mostly what they do for a 122 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:28.160 living. They might do several different things over the course of the year, 123 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:32.360 but when there's something available close by to where they live, they'll 124 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:36.180 usually take those jobs and work those jobs for as long as they last. And 125 00:07:36.180 --> 00:07:39.980 if they're done harvesting cherries, then they're probably going to get a job working 126 00:07:39.980 --> 00:07:43.820 on the tomato harvest somewhere else in the Central Valley and then move on 127 00:07:43.820 --> 00:07:47.500 to tree fruits and some ground growing vegetables like melons and 128 00:07:47.500 --> 00:07:51.340 cucumbers and things like that. So we grow again, we grow so 129 00:07:51.340 --> 00:07:55.060 much stuff in California that's not hard for people to put together 130 00:07:55.540 --> 00:07:59.260 Many, many weeks of ag employment if they are a little bit 131 00:07:59.260 --> 00:08:02.950 diligent about it and they maybe are willing to drive a little bit in 132 00:08:02.950 --> 00:08:06.750 order to do those jobs. Ag workers in California, on average, work 133 00:08:06.750 --> 00:08:10.110 about 36 weeks in agriculture out of a year. 134 00:08:10.830 --> 00:08:14.030 So it's not something that you can do 52 weeks a year 135 00:08:14.670 --> 00:08:18.510 because the work, just a lot of time isn't available during the winter months. But 136 00:08:18.510 --> 00:08:21.950 during the rest of the year, there's something going on in California pretty much every 137 00:08:21.950 --> 00:08:25.430 day. Okay, I want to talk a little bit about my 138 00:08:25.430 --> 00:08:29.110 background on some of that as well. Before we raise sugar beets 139 00:08:29.110 --> 00:08:32.770 here and before we got to the point where we 140 00:08:32.770 --> 00:08:36.610 could apply chemical to kill a lot of the weeds that would stop some 141 00:08:36.610 --> 00:08:39.970 of the sugar beet roots from growing, we hold them 142 00:08:40.450 --> 00:08:44.210 in my summers, you know, we got paid to hoe. And what I know is 143 00:08:44.610 --> 00:08:48.130 the migrant workers, the immigrant workers that came to the north 144 00:08:48.210 --> 00:08:52.050 to do that, could do a quarter of land and what it took us, 145 00:08:52.930 --> 00:08:56.530 you know, about three weeks to do one. In other words, they were 146 00:08:56.530 --> 00:09:00.290 better, they worked harder, and they were quicker. My, 147 00:09:00.290 --> 00:09:03.390 my suspicion is when comes to your seasonal work, 148 00:09:04.030 --> 00:09:07.630 many of the individuals that you need are 149 00:09:07.630 --> 00:09:11.070 Hispanic. That the people that come 150 00:09:11.390 --> 00:09:15.150 are very good at what they do, but they might be 151 00:09:15.470 --> 00:09:19.230 first generation immigrants. And, you know, I hope we can have 152 00:09:19.230 --> 00:09:22.590 a conversation here about whether or not some of them are even here 153 00:09:22.830 --> 00:09:25.710 legally. And so is my suspicion right? 154 00:09:27.790 --> 00:09:31.570 You're partly right and partly wrong. The part where you're not right 155 00:09:31.890 --> 00:09:35.490 is that a large part of our population have been residing in 156 00:09:35.490 --> 00:09:39.250 California. Yes, they are Hispanic. Many of them immigrated from 157 00:09:39.570 --> 00:09:43.290 Mexico and other Central American countries. But in many cases, 158 00:09:43.290 --> 00:09:46.970 that was 20 and 30 years ago. So they've lived in California 159 00:09:46.970 --> 00:09:50.770 for decades. Many of them, they have families here. 160 00:09:51.170 --> 00:09:54.850 They have spouses who either may be immigrants themselves 161 00:09:55.410 --> 00:09:59.090 or they may be green card holders. They may be citizens. They 162 00:09:59.090 --> 00:10:02.450 have children who are United States citizens because they were born here. 163 00:10:03.170 --> 00:10:06.930 Their kids are going to the local schools. And these people are 164 00:10:06.930 --> 00:10:10.770 not, by and large, raising their kids to be farm workers. They're raising 165 00:10:10.770 --> 00:10:14.530 them to be public defenders and school teachers 166 00:10:14.530 --> 00:10:18.370 and lawyers and plumbers and engineers and all 167 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:21.690 kinds of things, because we have a very comprehensive state university system in 168 00:10:21.690 --> 00:10:25.380 California and community college system that offers 169 00:10:26.020 --> 00:10:29.740 great education for not a lot of money. So there's a lot of 170 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:33.580 things these people can do, a lot of professional opportunities for their children to 171 00:10:33.580 --> 00:10:37.260 be able to do things other than agriculture, which is one of our problems here 172 00:10:37.260 --> 00:10:41.020 as an industry, is that our workforce is getting older every day, 173 00:10:41.020 --> 00:10:44.780 just like I am and just like you are. And doing agricultural 174 00:10:44.780 --> 00:10:48.540 work in California is a great job for a younger person, maybe not so 175 00:10:48.540 --> 00:10:51.980 much for someone who's as old as me. And then to answer your other question, 176 00:10:51.980 --> 00:10:55.820 yes, you are right, a great many of them did not emigrate to the 177 00:10:55.820 --> 00:10:59.060 United States legally back in the 1980s and 178 00:10:59.060 --> 00:11:02.660 1990s when they came here and settled here. 179 00:11:03.460 --> 00:11:07.180 California Farm Bureau and American Farm Bureau, too, have been advocating 180 00:11:07.180 --> 00:11:10.700 for decades. I mean, I worked at American Farm Bureau back in the 1990s, and 181 00:11:10.700 --> 00:11:14.420 we were advocating then for a path to some sort of status that would allow 182 00:11:15.060 --> 00:11:18.650 our workforce who originally came to the United States not 183 00:11:18.650 --> 00:11:22.010 legally, because there was no good way to do that at the time, 184 00:11:22.810 --> 00:11:25.530 to allow them to be able to earn a status, to allow them to work 185 00:11:25.530 --> 00:11:29.290 legally in the United States, and then to make some improvements to make 186 00:11:29.290 --> 00:11:32.330 our temporary ggricultural visa worker visa program 187 00:11:33.130 --> 00:11:36.730 more affordable, more usable, and more readily 188 00:11:36.730 --> 00:11:39.530 available so that we could rely on that when we need to. 189 00:11:40.570 --> 00:11:44.170 Has ICE or the Trump Administration as a whole 190 00:11:44.690 --> 00:11:48.130 uh crackdown on finding out whether or not some of these workers 191 00:11:48.290 --> 00:11:52.010 are here legally? Because, you know, there was this 192 00:11:52.010 --> 00:11:55.650 exemption that was supposedly given to ag and given to 193 00:11:55.650 --> 00:11:59.490 hotel workers. And so I'm curious, are 194 00:11:59.490 --> 00:12:03.090 these workers, whether they're here legally or not, working in 195 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:06.610 fear? So one piece of that that 196 00:12:07.010 --> 00:12:10.650 need to back up and make sure that we're clear about is that one thing 197 00:12:10.650 --> 00:12:14.130 you commonly hear, you hear these people refer to as undocumented workers. 198 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:18.440 Nobody is undocumented. Everybody has documents. You 199 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:21.720 can buy all the documents you need at a flea market anywhere in 200 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:25.400 California to do work up virtually any job that you can 201 00:12:25.400 --> 00:12:29.160 qualify for, for $1,000. It's just, it's just 202 00:12:29.160 --> 00:12:32.920 not that hard to do. Usually that's going to consist of a California 203 00:12:32.920 --> 00:12:36.600 driver's license and a Social Security card, or it could consist of a Social 204 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:40.040 Security card that you can then and a confident birth certificate that you can then 205 00:12:40.040 --> 00:12:43.570 take the California DMV and get a California issued 206 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:46.610 driver's license. So there are a lot of different ways you can get all the 207 00:12:46.610 --> 00:12:50.170 documentation you need to be able to offer documents to an 208 00:12:50.170 --> 00:12:53.810 employer so that your employer can complete the i9 process before 209 00:12:53.810 --> 00:12:57.650 they hire you. And I only emphasize that because I think there's 210 00:12:57.650 --> 00:13:00.770 a lot of misconceptions out there that farm employers 211 00:13:01.170 --> 00:13:04.850 commonly hire people who they know are undocumented. And that just is not 212 00:13:04.930 --> 00:13:08.680 true. You know. Now, what was your question, Your, your 213 00:13:08.680 --> 00:13:12.520 original question, Joel? My original question is whether or not they're 214 00:13:12.520 --> 00:13:16.160 legal workers or not, which clearly you've 215 00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:19.360 pointed out, some are, some aren't. Because if you're going to a flea market 216 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.680 to do that, clearly you've brought documentation 217 00:13:23.680 --> 00:13:27.440 that isn't accurate. So do they work in fear? 218 00:13:28.160 --> 00:13:31.880 Do they work in a way where any 219 00:13:31.880 --> 00:13:35.320 given day they're looking over their shoulder wondering or not they're going to be the 220 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:39.140 one deported? So a funny thing happened on 221 00:13:39.140 --> 00:13:42.860 the way to the President's Inauguration back in January, 222 00:13:43.020 --> 00:13:46.860 the week before the Inauguration, whoever it was that runs the Border 223 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:50.580 Patrol office in El Centro, California, decided he was going 224 00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:53.380 to maybe he wanted to make sure he kept his job in the new Administration. 225 00:13:53.380 --> 00:13:57.060 I don't know what was going on there, but he initiated an Enforcement Action in 226 00:13:57.060 --> 00:13:59.780 Bakersfield and started going out and picking up - 227 00:13:59.780 --> 00:14:02.780 officially, he said he was picking up criminal 228 00:14:03.260 --> 00:14:07.020 illegal aliens. So the kind of people we've heard talked 229 00:14:07.260 --> 00:14:11.020 about in the course of all the conversation around all of this in 230 00:14:11.180 --> 00:14:14.780 the last six months or so. And from what I could discern, 231 00:14:14.780 --> 00:14:18.380 that's a lot of what was happening there. They were actually doing that. 232 00:14:18.380 --> 00:14:22.220 But the funny thing that happened, and it's happened over and over and 233 00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:25.980 over again since January, is that when any 234 00:14:26.140 --> 00:14:29.800 law enforcement agency seems like does anything from a 235 00:14:30.040 --> 00:14:33.840 sobriety checkpoint to the Department of 236 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.480 Homeland Security's Homeland Security Investigation Service taking down 237 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.280 the child pornography ring in Winters, California. It's about 238 00:14:41.280 --> 00:14:44.920 25 miles from Sacramento going toward San Francisco. It 239 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:49.400 gets reported in local social media like Facebook and 240 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:53.160 Instagram and all that stuff as, oh my God, ICE is here 241 00:14:53.160 --> 00:14:56.800 and they're arresting farm workers and they're doing enforcement on farms. 242 00:14:58.710 --> 00:15:02.390 So far I have yet other than what happened in Ventura county, 243 00:15:02.390 --> 00:15:06.070 in the wake of the LA riots, I haven't been able to find 244 00:15:06.070 --> 00:15:09.790 an instance. I keep getting reports that these things are happening. And 245 00:15:09.790 --> 00:15:13.629 I always go and check contact people I know, because I've been 246 00:15:13.629 --> 00:15:17.350 doing this job for 16 years, I know people all over the state, contact 247 00:15:17.350 --> 00:15:21.150 people I know in those areas and say, what's happening? What 248 00:15:21.150 --> 00:15:24.810 do you. What have you heard? What's going on? And very often the first 249 00:15:25.290 --> 00:15:29.130 thing that I get is, well, yeah, we're hearing that ICE is doing enforcement out 250 00:15:29.130 --> 00:15:32.570 here and then they poke around a little bit and learn a little bit more. 251 00:15:32.570 --> 00:15:35.610 And it turns out that it's the. Like the story I told you before about 252 00:15:35.770 --> 00:15:39.610 Homeland Security investigations taking down a child pornography ring 253 00:15:39.770 --> 00:15:43.490 or a human smuggling ring, or in the case of. We got a 254 00:15:43.490 --> 00:15:47.090 text from a county Farm Bureau executive a couple of weeks 255 00:15:47.090 --> 00:15:50.900 ago saying that she had heard that ICE was in Thermal 256 00:15:50.900 --> 00:15:54.500 and Mecca, which are farming communities in eastern Riverside county, 257 00:15:55.140 --> 00:15:58.860 that ICE was out there doing farm site enforcement. Turns out what 258 00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:02.660 was actually happening was that the National Guard and DEA 259 00:16:02.740 --> 00:16:06.020 were suppressing an illegal Chinese pot grow in the desert. 260 00:16:06.340 --> 00:16:10.020 But that got reported as ICE out there doing stuff. So ICE wasn't 261 00:16:10.180 --> 00:16:13.140 in every case I've investigated and followed up on. 262 00:16:14.020 --> 00:16:17.570 ICE has not been doing farm site enforcement. It's always been 263 00:16:17.570 --> 00:16:21.090 somebody doing something else that gets reported that way 264 00:16:21.250 --> 00:16:24.770 in social media. And then that echoes off legacy media, 265 00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:28.490 which then in turn echoes off the social media. And the more 266 00:16:28.490 --> 00:16:31.730 spectacular and lurid you make these reports, 267 00:16:32.210 --> 00:16:35.330 the more likes and clicks and shares you get 268 00:16:35.810 --> 00:16:39.650 in the social media driven world that we live in these days. Which 269 00:16:39.650 --> 00:16:43.330 is, I guess, okay if you're trying to get likes and clicks and shares. 270 00:16:43.880 --> 00:16:47.720 But it's pretty tough on our employees in our 271 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:51.280 industry who are trying to make a living and support their families, just like you 272 00:16:51.280 --> 00:16:54.840 do and just like I do every day, who don't 273 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:58.280 know if it's safe for them to go to work. And 274 00:16:58.680 --> 00:17:02.440 there have been some pretty colorful and alarming stories about 275 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.720 people who should not have been detained, who were actually. People who were 276 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:10.370 actually US citizens being detained. I don't have any 277 00:17:10.370 --> 00:17:14.050 firsthand knowledge if any of that is true, but if any of it is 278 00:17:14.050 --> 00:17:17.050 true, it certainly is concerning. And that is causing 279 00:17:17.610 --> 00:17:21.370 agricultural employees in California, to the extent that they can 280 00:17:22.090 --> 00:17:25.289 in some cases, to elect not to go to work. I know of at least 281 00:17:25.289 --> 00:17:29.050 one strawberry producer in Ventura County who lost about 60% of 282 00:17:29.050 --> 00:17:32.650 his crop because he, in the wake of the LA riots, 283 00:17:32.650 --> 00:17:36.490 because the ICE and Border Patrol were up in Ventura County 284 00:17:37.860 --> 00:17:40.980 doing whatever it was they were doing, you might have seen last week they 285 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:45.180 conducted a raid on a cannabis production 286 00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:48.860 facility in Ventura County. So because we have adult 287 00:17:48.860 --> 00:17:52.500 use cannabis legal in California, 288 00:17:53.140 --> 00:17:56.940 it's still not legal federally. And so ICE was going out 289 00:17:56.940 --> 00:18:00.620 and picking up people who were here on visas. This is 290 00:18:00.620 --> 00:18:04.430 just last week picking up people who are here on various visas 291 00:18:04.430 --> 00:18:07.710 on temporary protected status, green card holders, 292 00:18:08.030 --> 00:18:11.830 a variety of others. There's a whole variety of visas that people 293 00:18:11.830 --> 00:18:15.510 have been able to get last several Administrations. The problem 294 00:18:15.510 --> 00:18:18.830 is that if you are engaged in cannabis 295 00:18:18.830 --> 00:18:22.470 production, that's a federal felony. And if 296 00:18:22.470 --> 00:18:25.870 you engage in a federal felony, then if you are here on a 297 00:18:25.870 --> 00:18:29.600 visa, you're immediately deportable and ICE can pick you up and deport 298 00:18:29.600 --> 00:18:33.280 you right away. If you're a green card holder, it would prevent 299 00:18:33.280 --> 00:18:36.320 you from ever being able to apply for citizenship if that's what you want to 300 00:18:36.320 --> 00:18:40.000 do. And a great many green card holders will do that eventually. So 301 00:18:40.560 --> 00:18:43.920 it's. And because cannabis production in California 302 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.880 happens cheek by jowl with food production in California. It's all 303 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:51.640 co-located, they're all right next to each other. It 304 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:55.440 has the effect of really scaring our workforce 305 00:18:55.670 --> 00:18:59.430 in California. And they try to avoid going out and going 306 00:18:59.430 --> 00:19:02.350 to work when this stuff is going on around them. And that makes it really 307 00:19:02.350 --> 00:19:06.110 tough for food production. You know, in California, we produce about half 308 00:19:06.110 --> 00:19:09.870 the fruits and vegetables the rest of the United States consumes. So 309 00:19:09.870 --> 00:19:13.270 it's just going to make it really tough for us to be able to produce 310 00:19:13.430 --> 00:19:17.270 strawberries and blueberries and all the other delicious things that 311 00:19:17.270 --> 00:19:20.990 we grow in California that folks all over the country want to eat. Well, 312 00:19:20.990 --> 00:19:24.510 National Farm Bureau is usually an organization with an 313 00:19:24.510 --> 00:19:27.770 Administration like this that would have a connection or two issue 314 00:19:28.250 --> 00:19:31.970 in both the ag department and all the way up to 315 00:19:31.970 --> 00:19:35.810 the top. And so as anybody spoke to them, as anybody spoke 316 00:19:35.810 --> 00:19:39.410 to the Administration and said, you know, other than a press release saying 317 00:19:39.410 --> 00:19:42.090 that, you know, you're not going to target 318 00:19:43.130 --> 00:19:46.890 farm workers, you know, if they're working in fear and the strawberry farmer 319 00:19:46.890 --> 00:19:50.570 is losing a huge part of his workforce, how do you get word 320 00:19:50.570 --> 00:19:54.050 out other than through the Administration itself saying, look, you're 321 00:19:54.050 --> 00:19:57.520 okay? That's a very good question. 322 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:01.640 And to be honest, all the back and forth with 323 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:05.480 this Administration about we are going to target, we're not going to target, we are 324 00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:09.160 going to target, maybe we will target, you know, has 325 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:12.960 caused a lot of confusion and a lot of consternation. And 326 00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:16.960 so that has made things more difficult than it 327 00:20:17.040 --> 00:20:20.650 than they really needed to be a little more clarity about 328 00:20:20.810 --> 00:20:24.570 what their policy is and what the direction is they're going in could 329 00:20:24.570 --> 00:20:28.410 have been very helpful. Now, in a lot of 330 00:20:28.410 --> 00:20:30.970 ways, the genie is kind of out of the bottle and it's going to be 331 00:20:30.970 --> 00:20:34.810 very difficult to put it back and it's going to be difficult to convince people 332 00:20:35.610 --> 00:20:39.130 that they can. Well, for example, one of the things they're talking about trying to 333 00:20:39.130 --> 00:20:42.490 do is to have farmers 334 00:20:42.810 --> 00:20:46.610 this Administration is talking about trying to do is to have farmers be 335 00:20:46.610 --> 00:20:50.250 able to vouch for the long term work for me 336 00:20:50.250 --> 00:20:53.920 on my farm and that employees would be able to 337 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:58.600 exit the country and touch back. The idea being they go back to where they 338 00:20:58.600 --> 00:21:02.400 came from and then they can re enter the United States legally. 339 00:21:02.800 --> 00:21:06.280 In theory, that sounds great. The problem is that most of these people have been 340 00:21:06.280 --> 00:21:10.120 here for 20 and 30 years and so they have no home to 341 00:21:10.120 --> 00:21:13.920 go back to. And with all that's happened in the last 342 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.800 six months, I'm not sure that you would have a great many people who 343 00:21:17.800 --> 00:21:21.640 would be willing to trust that that program will actually work the way 344 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:25.360 that it's being sold to them. So I think you might have difficulty 345 00:21:25.360 --> 00:21:29.000 getting people to participate in that program. Yeah. And 346 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.800 there's examples I think they could go to to justify some of that. 347 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:36.520 Bryan, great conversation. Could do it all day long. Keep 348 00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:39.760 sending those vegetables, those nuts, everything you raise 349 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.960 to the middle of this country as well. Thank you, Bryan. Thank 350 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:47.510 you. And now I'm going to turn it over to Heidi and Sonia 351 00:21:47.510 --> 00:21:50.750 Parras Konrad. They'll take it away. Heidi? 352 00:21:51.390 --> 00:21:54.830 We've been getting a lot of questions about the effects of the 353 00:21:54.830 --> 00:21:58.590 Administration's immigration policies on what's 354 00:21:58.590 --> 00:22:02.350 happening in rural America. Who's out there? What are the status 355 00:22:02.350 --> 00:22:06.030 of so many of the folks who are providing assistance 356 00:22:06.030 --> 00:22:09.070 in meatpacking plants or working picking vegetables 357 00:22:09.710 --> 00:22:13.310 or working in the local hotel. And we all know that there is an 358 00:22:13.310 --> 00:22:16.710 acute labor shortage many times in rural America. 359 00:22:17.030 --> 00:22:20.550 We wanted to invite an expert and that's exactly what we did. 360 00:22:21.350 --> 00:22:24.910 So Sonia Parras Konrad, she's an 361 00:22:24.910 --> 00:22:28.710 activist, attorney and educator on legal remedies for immigration, 362 00:22:28.790 --> 00:22:32.630 survivors of gender violence and labor trafficking. She's founded 363 00:22:32.630 --> 00:22:36.350 numerous nonprofit organizations and she has been 364 00:22:36.350 --> 00:22:40.160 providing immigration technical assistance to frontline 365 00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:44.000 advocates and attorneys. Never more than 366 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.760 now has that assistance been needed. Sonia, 367 00:22:47.760 --> 00:22:51.000 thank you so much for joining us on the Hot Dish and thank you so 368 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.120 much for the work that you're doing. I think to start out, if you could 369 00:22:54.120 --> 00:22:57.800 just give us a sense of the continuum because you didn't start this 370 00:22:57.800 --> 00:23:01.640 work with this Administration. You've been working in this area a long time. 371 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:05.800 What changes have you seen both in terms of 372 00:23:06.360 --> 00:23:09.850 process and the work that you do, but also so the 373 00:23:09.850 --> 00:23:12.690 attitudes of your clients and the concerns of your clients? 374 00:23:13.810 --> 00:23:17.370 Well, thank you so much for having me. It is my pleasure to share 375 00:23:17.370 --> 00:23:21.210 information with you in this very important topic that 376 00:23:21.210 --> 00:23:24.930 affects not only us as community, but also, you 377 00:23:24.930 --> 00:23:28.330 know, anyone that we welcome into our 378 00:23:28.330 --> 00:23:31.970 communities. Obviously, I've been doing this work for almost 379 00:23:31.970 --> 00:23:35.600 29 years. And the difference 380 00:23:35.600 --> 00:23:39.160 between doing this work with other many Administration, including 381 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:42.640 the prior Administration, is that we had a sense of 382 00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:46.400 trust, even though we are in opposite sides, for 383 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.480 instance, with the Office of Chief Counsel 384 00:23:50.040 --> 00:23:53.520 or with ICE. We knew that they were 385 00:23:53.520 --> 00:23:57.160 tasked with doing a job following a series of rules that 386 00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.920 everybody was familiar with. The way that we're practicing 387 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:04.230 today is very, is 388 00:24:04.230 --> 00:24:08.030 terrifying because nobody knows what the rules are going to 389 00:24:08.030 --> 00:24:11.790 be tomorrow. So we are preparing for what we know today. But 390 00:24:11.790 --> 00:24:15.470 tomorrow we have yet another regulation, another change in 391 00:24:15.470 --> 00:24:18.430 policy. The way that 392 00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:22.590 my colleagues, because we see each other in the community, 393 00:24:23.070 --> 00:24:26.430 ICE agents and US officers and judges 394 00:24:26.830 --> 00:24:30.170 are now working in silent 395 00:24:30.730 --> 00:24:34.410 and losing our communications and 396 00:24:34.410 --> 00:24:37.810 gatherings where we, we used to exchange what problems are we 397 00:24:37.810 --> 00:24:40.970 facing and how we can solve this together to provide 398 00:24:41.290 --> 00:24:45.009 fair services or do our jobs following the 399 00:24:45.009 --> 00:24:48.010 rules. That's no longer here. We are 400 00:24:49.210 --> 00:24:50.650 in very 401 00:24:52.170 --> 00:24:54.980 uneasy waters and 402 00:24:56.340 --> 00:25:00.100 not in a trusting way working 403 00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:03.780 against each other. Very divisive, very 404 00:25:04.020 --> 00:25:07.780 isolated. Yes. Right. So if you can 405 00:25:08.100 --> 00:25:11.740 just help me kind of understand your clients, because most 406 00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:15.580 people say, oh, all of these people are alike. They all have the 407 00:25:15.580 --> 00:25:19.340 same status. And you work a lot with refugees. You work a lot 408 00:25:19.340 --> 00:25:23.090 with people who, you know, by, prior to this Administration, were 409 00:25:23.090 --> 00:25:26.530 in the country as we saw it legally or were given some 410 00:25:26.530 --> 00:25:30.210 status that enabled them to work. But a lot of that 411 00:25:30.210 --> 00:25:33.410 now has been turned upside down because the 412 00:25:33.810 --> 00:25:37.170 Administration has revoked a lot of those 413 00:25:37.249 --> 00:25:40.930 permissions. And so could you just kind of start from. These are the 414 00:25:41.170 --> 00:25:44.850 kind of range of legal statuses that you 415 00:25:44.850 --> 00:25:48.210 deal with. Okay. So my expertise, 416 00:25:49.530 --> 00:25:53.050 my dedication is on humanitarian 417 00:25:53.850 --> 00:25:57.530 immigration relief. So I work a lot with children. 418 00:25:58.010 --> 00:26:01.650 We have all these juvenile visas for kids that are 419 00:26:01.650 --> 00:26:04.570 unaccompanied and came alone into this country. 420 00:26:05.450 --> 00:26:09.290 I do U-visas for victims of human for 421 00:26:09.290 --> 00:26:12.810 victims of certain crimes of violence. I do 422 00:26:12.810 --> 00:26:16.640 T-visas for trafficking survivors. I also do 423 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:20.480 family, family petitions. And I work a lot with people 424 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:23.840 that have mixed immigration relief. So they may have 425 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:28.400 TPS because they are from Venezuela. 426 00:26:28.560 --> 00:26:32.080 Can we get, TPS is Temporary Protected Status, right? 427 00:26:33.280 --> 00:26:37.000 This is an area that's rife with acronyms that I know a lot of our 428 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:40.480 listeners really want to be educated because we're told 429 00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:44.980 that all of these people are in the country illegally, that simply crossing over the 430 00:26:44.980 --> 00:26:48.140 border, but that's not true a lot of them have been given 431 00:26:48.540 --> 00:26:51.740 status under federal law. A lot of them 432 00:26:52.780 --> 00:26:56.460 have paperwork to come to this country before they ever cross the border. 433 00:26:56.860 --> 00:27:00.340 Very good point. So, for instance, we had a group, we have 434 00:27:00.340 --> 00:27:03.740 thousands of people that were told, wait for your turn. 435 00:27:04.300 --> 00:27:07.900 Go to this app, apply to enter 436 00:27:08.060 --> 00:27:11.870 legally with something called CBP One. We'll parole 437 00:27:11.870 --> 00:27:15.510 you into the country. You will have an Employment Authorization for 438 00:27:15.590 --> 00:27:19.150 a year. Then you can apply for Asylum or for whatever 439 00:27:19.150 --> 00:27:22.790 protections. So that program has been 440 00:27:22.790 --> 00:27:26.310 suspended and canceled, and all these people are trapped 441 00:27:26.310 --> 00:27:29.470 now in the country with huge uncertainty 442 00:27:29.470 --> 00:27:32.790 and in fear of obviously 443 00:27:32.790 --> 00:27:36.350 getting arrested and deported. So this is just one program. 444 00:27:36.350 --> 00:27:39.830 Another program was the Family Reunification for 445 00:27:40.070 --> 00:27:43.890 Venezuelans or for Cubans. So people apply from their 446 00:27:43.890 --> 00:27:46.970 countries of origin to legally enter the country, 447 00:27:47.450 --> 00:27:51.210 reunite with their family members, and that has been canceled and 448 00:27:51.210 --> 00:27:55.050 suspended. As you know, or you may not know this, 449 00:27:55.050 --> 00:27:55.450 but 450 00:27:55.930 --> 00:27:59.610 925,000 451 00:28:00.810 --> 00:28:04.650 people have lost their temporary protected 452 00:28:04.730 --> 00:28:08.010 status as of right now since the Trump 453 00:28:08.010 --> 00:28:11.450 Administration canceled about nine TPS 454 00:28:11.610 --> 00:28:15.450 programs. Venezuelans, 472,000 455 00:28:15.530 --> 00:28:18.570 Venezuelans have no status now. 456 00:28:18.810 --> 00:28:22.490 Haiti, 348,000 and so forth. 457 00:28:23.050 --> 00:28:26.410 So we have people that came in legally, 458 00:28:26.890 --> 00:28:30.730 that had certain rules applied, that abide by the rules, that 459 00:28:30.730 --> 00:28:34.570 are now up in the air concerned 460 00:28:34.570 --> 00:28:38.330 for their livelihood, their safety, and potential 461 00:28:38.490 --> 00:28:42.330 swiftly removal from this country. Okay, well, I want 462 00:28:42.330 --> 00:28:45.890 to make the point that you work in Des Moines, you live in 463 00:28:45.890 --> 00:28:49.570 Iowa, which obviously we know that there 464 00:28:49.570 --> 00:28:53.250 is a lot of immigrant workers, whether 465 00:28:53.250 --> 00:28:56.970 they're undocumented, came across the border, did not 466 00:28:56.970 --> 00:29:00.690 have any kind of protected status when they did, or whether they had protected 467 00:29:00.690 --> 00:29:04.290 status. And that was a legal difference prior to this 468 00:29:04.290 --> 00:29:08.060 Administration. So what are you hearing from 469 00:29:08.060 --> 00:29:11.700 employers? Are you getting calls from Chambers of Commerce 470 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:15.260 employers saying, what can you do to help the workers 471 00:29:15.340 --> 00:29:19.100 who work in the meatpacking plant or the workers who 472 00:29:20.540 --> 00:29:24.380 basically are helping custom combine? Well, so there 473 00:29:24.380 --> 00:29:28.220 is a huge disconnect between the demand and the needs of the 474 00:29:28.220 --> 00:29:31.820 rural community and the policies, 475 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.440 policies that not only don't respond to the needs and 476 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:40.280 the reality of our situation in 477 00:29:40.280 --> 00:29:44.080 rural areas, but that are going to make it even harder. 478 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.479 If it was difficult before now, it's going to be very, 479 00:29:48.479 --> 00:29:52.120 very hard and scary. We have meat 480 00:29:52.120 --> 00:29:55.280 packing plants, we have the agricultural 481 00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.340 folks, we have mom and pop shops, 482 00:29:59.500 --> 00:30:03.100 farmers that have to milk their cows. And this is a 483 00:30:03.100 --> 00:30:06.700 fact and everybody knows it. They rely on 484 00:30:06.860 --> 00:30:10.660 immigrants to do the job. And we're talking about thousands. 485 00:30:10.660 --> 00:30:13.500 For instance, did you know that we bring about 486 00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:17.500 6,000, 6,000 agricultural 487 00:30:17.500 --> 00:30:21.100 workers just in Iowa to pick up our crops, and that's 488 00:30:21.100 --> 00:30:24.820 every year. So imagine that these are people that legally come into the country 489 00:30:24.820 --> 00:30:28.660 through this agricultural worker program. They 490 00:30:28.660 --> 00:30:31.720 have their H-2A visas that is now 491 00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.080 slowing down and harder to get. While the 492 00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:39.440 crops don't understand about politics. Our 493 00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:43.120 chickens either, and the cows, poor, poor cows, they 494 00:30:43.120 --> 00:30:46.240 need to be milked. There is a huge 495 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:50.000 disconnect between the policies that are getting 496 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.640 harder under these Administrations and the reality of the community 497 00:30:55.080 --> 00:30:58.850 and the people that need. That need the help. I 498 00:30:58.850 --> 00:31:02.410 think the other argument that's been presented are 499 00:31:02.650 --> 00:31:06.330 the people who they are moving against are the worst of the worst. They're 500 00:31:06.330 --> 00:31:09.810 criminals. They've done violent crimes, that if they're 501 00:31:09.810 --> 00:31:13.050 hardworking, they have nothing to fear from 502 00:31:13.850 --> 00:31:17.330 immigration officials. What's been your experience in 503 00:31:17.330 --> 00:31:21.130 Iowa, all the people you represent in deportation hearings, 504 00:31:21.130 --> 00:31:24.860 they're all hardened criminals. Are they? Well, I just said 505 00:31:24.940 --> 00:31:28.620 that my forte is humanitarian relief. 506 00:31:28.700 --> 00:31:32.540 So I work with survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, 507 00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:36.700 children. We just had a swiftly removal of 508 00:31:36.700 --> 00:31:39.020 a kid that had 509 00:31:43.420 --> 00:31:44.700 a Juvenile visa. 510 00:31:48.140 --> 00:31:51.340 And I do have a policy within my 511 00:31:51.340 --> 00:31:55.100 contracts because I may have a conflict of interest. I only 512 00:31:55.320 --> 00:31:59.160 represent survivors and people that are not violent or 513 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:02.600 don't have bad records. A lot of my clients are in 514 00:32:02.600 --> 00:32:06.240 deportation proceedings, and a lot of my clients are going through the 515 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.480 process. But also a lot of the rules 516 00:32:10.040 --> 00:32:13.880 are changing quickly, and this is going to affect 517 00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:17.240 everyone, regardless of your criminal background or your 518 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:21.040 victimization history. You want to tell 519 00:32:21.040 --> 00:32:23.720 us about the latest rule change as it relates to bond? 520 00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:28.400 Yes. So one of the strengths of 521 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.080 our Constitutional rights, obviously is due process and 522 00:32:32.080 --> 00:32:35.760 your right to go in front of a judge and request bond 523 00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:39.320 to be outside, reunited with 524 00:32:39.320 --> 00:32:43.120 your family members and able to defend your case 525 00:32:43.360 --> 00:32:47.120 in front of a judge. So this is one of the pillars 526 00:32:47.120 --> 00:32:50.560 of our legal system and our constitution. 527 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:54.080 And so if we talk about ever changing rules, 528 00:32:54.850 --> 00:32:58.610 recently on July 8, we were 529 00:32:58.690 --> 00:33:02.330 presented with a memorandum that is going 530 00:33:02.330 --> 00:33:06.050 to change the interpretation of 531 00:33:06.450 --> 00:33:10.050 that due process right and rights to bond, making 532 00:33:10.050 --> 00:33:12.850 it very, very hard for people to actually 533 00:33:14.130 --> 00:33:17.930 post bond and go outside of jail 534 00:33:17.930 --> 00:33:21.480 and continue with their immigration defense under the 535 00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:25.320 current Administration and the current laws. So 536 00:33:25.560 --> 00:33:29.400 how many of your clients are saying, I'm done. I don't see that 537 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:33.120 I'm going to be able to fight this. Let's just figure out some 538 00:33:33.120 --> 00:33:36.280 way. You know, the Administration rolled out a voluntary 539 00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:40.720 deportation exit program. How many 540 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:44.520 of your clients have actually taken the Administration up on those? Well, 541 00:33:44.600 --> 00:33:47.930 I just had one. But it was 542 00:33:47.930 --> 00:33:51.490 extremely hard for my client to actually apply for the program. 543 00:33:52.050 --> 00:33:55.890 So hard that she said, I'm done, and up in the plane and 544 00:33:55.890 --> 00:33:59.690 left. This is a client that will have a path to 545 00:33:59.690 --> 00:34:02.850 legally return within 10 years of departing. 546 00:34:03.330 --> 00:34:06.050 So because she is so exhausted 547 00:34:06.850 --> 00:34:10.570 and anxious about every day waking up and not 548 00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:13.969 knowing if this will be baby, she is going to be 549 00:34:13.969 --> 00:34:17.769 arrested and separated from her loved ones. She has chosen 550 00:34:17.769 --> 00:34:21.529 the imaginable, which is to actually 551 00:34:21.609 --> 00:34:25.209 self deport and leave and leave back to a country 552 00:34:25.209 --> 00:34:29.009 where she has no ties anymore because she has been in the 553 00:34:29.009 --> 00:34:32.729 US for a long time and only most of her 554 00:34:32.729 --> 00:34:36.369 family is here in the States and has no way 555 00:34:36.369 --> 00:34:40.140 of, you know, just, just providing herself with 556 00:34:40.140 --> 00:34:43.820 the basics. But this is how desperate and terrifying 557 00:34:43.820 --> 00:34:47.340 people are. We are, our 558 00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:50.780 calls right now are 559 00:34:50.860 --> 00:34:54.060 not anymore about how is my case going, 560 00:34:54.540 --> 00:34:58.260 but am I going to be arrested and what should I do 561 00:34:58.260 --> 00:35:01.980 if I get arrested and what's going to happen to my children if I get 562 00:35:01.980 --> 00:35:05.550 arrested. So these are frantic calls nonstop 563 00:35:05.550 --> 00:35:08.470 into my office and every attorney's office. 564 00:35:09.350 --> 00:35:11.670 So again, the narrative has 565 00:35:13.030 --> 00:35:16.670 shift from how is my 566 00:35:16.670 --> 00:35:20.150 case going? And collaborating with the progress of the case 567 00:35:20.390 --> 00:35:24.230 to, 'Should I take my children to 568 00:35:24.230 --> 00:35:27.950 the hospital, should I take my kid to school, can I 569 00:35:27.950 --> 00:35:31.520 go to church?' Because we no longer have sanctuary 570 00:35:31.600 --> 00:35:35.320 or protected areas. This is 571 00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:38.880 how much in church, in hospitals, in schools, 572 00:35:39.200 --> 00:35:42.560 anywhere. Anywhere you're no longer protected, safe. 573 00:35:43.200 --> 00:35:45.920 And these places are in jeopardy. Children, pregnant 574 00:35:46.560 --> 00:35:50.320 mothers, people in need, emergency situations. 575 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:54.120 Every policy 576 00:35:54.120 --> 00:35:57.720 has a trickle effect and a lot of not 577 00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:02.120 sure if intended or unintended consequences. Yeah, 578 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:06.000 I mean, the sense 579 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:09.800 of intimidation, like I'm exhausted, I'm tired, 580 00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.440 or they may deport me to a country I don't have any 581 00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:17.080 relationship to. So how is that going to work? Or I may be 582 00:36:17.080 --> 00:36:20.200 sitting in alligator Alcatraz, which 583 00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:23.000 by all reports seems fairly 584 00:36:24.220 --> 00:36:27.860 primitive and dangerous. And I'm going to start out, 585 00:36:27.860 --> 00:36:31.580 Sonia, with just my story because I want you to respond to this. 586 00:36:32.060 --> 00:36:35.860 So all of this is so complicated and it really, you know when people 587 00:36:35.860 --> 00:36:38.620 say, just want to take broad brushstrokes and say, 588 00:36:39.500 --> 00:36:43.220 these are the people you want to say. Every story is different. And 589 00:36:43.220 --> 00:36:46.900 you know that, Sonia. Every person's experience in this country has been 590 00:36:46.900 --> 00:36:50.320 different. But here's an example of, of unintended 591 00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:54.120 consequences. We have a dad who's in the country. He's undocumented, 592 00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:58.360 but he's working, getting health insurance from his 593 00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:01.880 work. His wife is pregnant. She has three, she has 594 00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:05.160 triplets who are all in distress. She's in the NICU 595 00:37:05.640 --> 00:37:09.400 in a hospital probably 50 miles away 596 00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:12.840 from where mom and dad live because this is rural America 597 00:37:13.080 --> 00:37:16.640 and you aren't going to get knee neonatal treatment in a rural 598 00:37:16.640 --> 00:37:20.320 hospital. And he's driving to go see her every 599 00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:23.920 night and he gets stopped by ICE agents and he now 600 00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:27.520 is apprehended and on his way for deportation. 601 00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:32.120 So everybody who says, oh, you know, these people are costing the 602 00:37:32.120 --> 00:37:35.760 government. Well, what is going to cost the government more than her 603 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.520 not qualifying? I mean, she's an American citizen, she qualifies for 604 00:37:39.520 --> 00:37:42.730 Medicaid, she no longer has the support of her husband 605 00:37:43.370 --> 00:37:46.970 financially or emotionally. He's being deported. And 606 00:37:46.970 --> 00:37:50.330 now the government is going to pay the cost of 607 00:37:50.730 --> 00:37:54.450 those children's health care. So I 608 00:37:54.450 --> 00:37:58.170 know that you have hundreds of stories like this of 609 00:37:58.810 --> 00:38:01.930 hard working people, but when you look at 610 00:38:03.850 --> 00:38:07.610 taking away all due process and not having a 611 00:38:07.610 --> 00:38:10.700 judge or someone adjudicate circumstances, 612 00:38:11.500 --> 00:38:15.180 you get a lot of unintended consequences, it seems to me. And 613 00:38:15.180 --> 00:38:18.380 so how do we better educate the public? 614 00:38:18.540 --> 00:38:22.180 Sonia, on number one, who's 615 00:38:22.180 --> 00:38:25.779 being hurt, whether it's employers and the 616 00:38:25.779 --> 00:38:29.420 economy, whether it is spouses who are 617 00:38:30.220 --> 00:38:33.580 American citizens, whether it's children who have 618 00:38:33.820 --> 00:38:37.450 either been deported with their mother or are left 619 00:38:37.450 --> 00:38:41.250 behind by a parent who was apprehended. 620 00:38:41.730 --> 00:38:45.490 How do we tell those stories in a more comprehensive 621 00:38:45.490 --> 00:38:48.930 way? Well, obviously 622 00:38:49.330 --> 00:38:52.770 I see a lot of US 623 00:38:52.850 --> 00:38:56.370 citizens that reach out to me when 624 00:38:56.610 --> 00:39:00.290 they are living or going through situations like this and 625 00:39:00.290 --> 00:39:03.650 they're witnesses to the atrocity and the impact of the 626 00:39:03.650 --> 00:39:07.490 policies. So these are people that regardless of 627 00:39:07.490 --> 00:39:11.130 their politics and their party 628 00:39:11.370 --> 00:39:15.050 alliances, all of a sudden see themselves 629 00:39:15.210 --> 00:39:17.450 connected to a human being. 630 00:39:18.730 --> 00:39:22.330 It's no longer a case about immigration 631 00:39:22.410 --> 00:39:26.130 policies. 'Deport them all,' 'criminals out,' it's that they 632 00:39:26.130 --> 00:39:29.810 are all of a sudden inside of this wave 633 00:39:29.810 --> 00:39:33.340 of terror and desperation finding out 634 00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:37.100 that our system doesn't work. These are 635 00:39:38.620 --> 00:39:42.060 real examples of people that become allies 636 00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:45.340 and become voices for 637 00:39:46.860 --> 00:39:50.700 those who are in the shadows. So talking to 638 00:39:51.580 --> 00:39:55.420 your representatives, writing to the 639 00:39:56.060 --> 00:39:59.350 newspaper, voicing what you're experiencing and 640 00:39:59.350 --> 00:40:02.870 seeing in your neighbors, in the 641 00:40:03.350 --> 00:40:06.950 friends of your children, in your workplace, 642 00:40:07.030 --> 00:40:10.630 I think it's very important. We are all witnesses 643 00:40:10.630 --> 00:40:14.470 and we cannot be silent. 644 00:40:16.470 --> 00:40:19.510 You know, I think that is such an important 645 00:40:20.630 --> 00:40:24.440 point. We are all witnesses at this point in time. And 646 00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:28.280 you know, no one, when you look at polling and you look at public 647 00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:32.000 opinion, we've got real life stories and you're seeing, 648 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:36.160 you know, broad criticism, you know, which has been driven, I 649 00:40:36.160 --> 00:40:39.800 think by some of the stories that have been told. And so that's why it's 650 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:43.600 so important that, yes, there's legal process, but that legal process 651 00:40:43.600 --> 00:40:47.400 is changing all the time, as you said. And it's 652 00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:51.170 getting narrower and narrower and harder and harder for you to help your clients. 653 00:40:51.170 --> 00:40:54.850 And if there isn't a political change of heart, and 654 00:40:54.850 --> 00:40:58.610 we won't see that in the Administration, I don't think. But if it's not 655 00:40:58.610 --> 00:41:01.890 political change of heart, we need to have a public 656 00:41:02.690 --> 00:41:06.410 change of heart or at least education. So what is any of 657 00:41:06.410 --> 00:41:10.050 your groups doing to kind of educate the American 658 00:41:10.210 --> 00:41:14.050 public about your clients and their current 659 00:41:14.130 --> 00:41:17.510 situation related to, to deportations 660 00:41:17.830 --> 00:41:21.590 and actions that are being taken 661 00:41:21.670 --> 00:41:25.350 by the federal government? To be honest, not 662 00:41:25.350 --> 00:41:28.910 enough. And it's because we have our head in the 663 00:41:28.910 --> 00:41:32.590 hole, because we are fighting so hard and 664 00:41:32.590 --> 00:41:36.230 so busy trying to, first of all, open 665 00:41:36.230 --> 00:41:39.950 our computers and say, what changed today and how many 666 00:41:39.950 --> 00:41:43.350 of our community members is going to be affected by this? 667 00:41:44.030 --> 00:41:47.470 And kind of like trading water every single day 668 00:41:47.950 --> 00:41:51.710 that we're losing the momentum of including educating 669 00:41:52.190 --> 00:41:55.950 and talking to people that can be, again, a voice 670 00:41:56.030 --> 00:41:59.749 of change and witnesses to what is happening right 671 00:41:59.749 --> 00:42:02.910 now, even though we are 672 00:42:03.950 --> 00:42:07.750 trading water and exhausted. And 673 00:42:07.750 --> 00:42:10.830 when I say we, I mean the immigration bar. We're only. 674 00:42:11.610 --> 00:42:15.450 Let me give you an example. In Iowa, we're just like barely 40 immigration 675 00:42:15.450 --> 00:42:17.930 attorneys in the entire state of Iowa. 676 00:42:19.370 --> 00:42:22.810 Imagine the lack of capacity to respond 677 00:42:23.290 --> 00:42:24.490 to the major 678 00:42:26.490 --> 00:42:29.810 injection of funding to get ICE 679 00:42:29.810 --> 00:42:33.370 agents going into communities and terrorizing 680 00:42:33.370 --> 00:42:36.730 communities and arresting people. We 681 00:42:36.970 --> 00:42:40.620 are often talking in churches. 682 00:42:40.620 --> 00:42:44.340 Which is a great place to talk about what are the issues 683 00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:47.980 that are affecting their communities and how they can be helpful 684 00:42:48.220 --> 00:42:51.580 to their communities. We are doing 685 00:42:52.460 --> 00:42:56.180 TikToks, which is very fashionable. We're doing things 686 00:42:56.180 --> 00:42:59.620 like this. You know, thank you so much, you know, from my heart, you know, 687 00:42:59.620 --> 00:43:03.300 for this opportunity to talk about these issues. We're 688 00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:07.070 writing, we're training the Iowa bar. Recently, we put on 689 00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:10.750 a panel of the 40 immigration 690 00:43:10.750 --> 00:43:14.470 attorneys to educate our own peers on how is 691 00:43:14.470 --> 00:43:17.870 this affecting you as a criminal lawyer, as a family 692 00:43:17.950 --> 00:43:21.150 lawyer, as a judge, so we can all understand 693 00:43:22.670 --> 00:43:26.310 how, again, how difficult 694 00:43:26.310 --> 00:43:29.870 immigration is and how war is getting and 695 00:43:29.870 --> 00:43:33.150 impacting all of us at different levels and capacities. 696 00:43:34.620 --> 00:43:37.620 There's a bunch of people listening to this who want to say, what can we 697 00:43:37.620 --> 00:43:41.460 do to help? I mean, they're not lawyers. They may just be people who 698 00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:45.100 care desperately about fulfilling the obligations under 699 00:43:45.100 --> 00:43:48.460 the Constitution. They may be people who just feel like 700 00:43:48.940 --> 00:43:52.700 this is a humanitarian crisis, that they can't walk away from. So 701 00:43:52.700 --> 00:43:56.500 this is your chance to ask them for something. So have 702 00:43:56.500 --> 00:44:00.140 at it. Well, so remember that 703 00:44:00.140 --> 00:44:03.760 behind every case in the papers, 704 00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:06.800 every statistics, you know, every 705 00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:11.720 roundup raid, there is a human life. And it could 706 00:44:11.720 --> 00:44:15.560 be your neighbor, it can be your nanny, it can be that person that 707 00:44:15.560 --> 00:44:18.880 is taking care of mom and dad that have 708 00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:22.720 Alzheimer's or that is cleaning your house. So 709 00:44:22.720 --> 00:44:25.840 don't see statistics, see human lives. 710 00:44:26.640 --> 00:44:30.430 It's very easy to lose side of the people at the 711 00:44:30.430 --> 00:44:33.790 center again. The father that is picking up those 712 00:44:33.790 --> 00:44:37.470 tomatoes, the people that 713 00:44:37.470 --> 00:44:41.230 pick up your children from school, etc. So immigration 714 00:44:41.230 --> 00:44:44.390 law is an abstract. It's about real 715 00:44:44.870 --> 00:44:48.390 hopes, fears, sacrifices. Our 716 00:44:48.390 --> 00:44:51.270 ancestors once were there as well. 717 00:44:52.390 --> 00:44:55.710 Two, our laws can bend towards 718 00:44:55.710 --> 00:44:59.160 justice too. It's not just black or white. 719 00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:03.920 Rules are shifting, they're changing overnight. 720 00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:07.480 But our history shows that when community 721 00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:11.160 gets together and we 722 00:45:11.720 --> 00:45:15.200 rise our voices, farmers, faith groups, 723 00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:18.120 schools, of course, attorneys, 724 00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:23.240 people working [from] their kitchen tables, they can bend policy 725 00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:27.160 toward fairness. Even police officers that 726 00:45:27.160 --> 00:45:30.480 are listening today to us have that 727 00:45:30.560 --> 00:45:34.360 capacity to say, okay, I need to make sure that the laws 728 00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:38.120 are followed, but do I really need to tell this person because I 729 00:45:38.120 --> 00:45:41.920 think he may be an undocumented person. Do I really have to do 730 00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:45.760 that? And who am I hurting or helping at the end? So every 731 00:45:46.160 --> 00:45:49.960 public comment that we do, every letter that 732 00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:53.600 we can send to a Congress party person, every 733 00:45:53.600 --> 00:45:57.120 lawyer who takes a pro bono case, and yes, every 734 00:45:57.120 --> 00:46:00.800 volunteer that wants to help us lawyers to take more pro bono cases, 735 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.440 chips away that injustice and reminds 736 00:46:05.520 --> 00:46:09.320 policymakers that they're just not numbers. We gotta 737 00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:12.680 get away from numbers and policies and all 738 00:46:12.680 --> 00:46:16.400 criminals rhetoric. But look at 739 00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:21.240 families woven into our own towns, our own communities. 740 00:46:22.520 --> 00:46:26.280 And finally, because I can keep on talking, we all 741 00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:30.080 have a role to play, right? You don't need to have a law 742 00:46:30.080 --> 00:46:33.880 degree to make a difference. And I would just 743 00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:37.480 say when you see something on social media where a child 744 00:46:37.640 --> 00:46:41.240 who with cancer has been deported, share it with your network 745 00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:44.600 and say, this isn't what I expected. I expected that people 746 00:46:45.050 --> 00:46:48.610 who commit violent crimes would be deported, not children 747 00:46:48.610 --> 00:46:52.170 with cancer. And so I think share that 748 00:46:52.170 --> 00:46:55.850 with your federal, especially your federal 749 00:46:57.370 --> 00:47:01.089 elected officials, whether that's a Congressman or whether that's your 750 00:47:01.089 --> 00:47:04.810 two Senators, whoever that is. And so if 751 00:47:04.810 --> 00:47:08.570 you're interested in this work, donate to people who are providing this 752 00:47:08.570 --> 00:47:12.420 pro bono service and encourage other lawyers that you know, or 753 00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:16.220 if you are a lawyer, encouraged to maybe do some pro bono 754 00:47:16.220 --> 00:47:20.060 work in this, in this space, because it is, it 755 00:47:20.060 --> 00:47:23.540 is an all hands on deck humanitarian crisis. 756 00:47:23.700 --> 00:47:27.540 And you know, none of us are defending anyone who is a violent criminal 757 00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:31.460 who came into this country to create mayhem and 758 00:47:31.940 --> 00:47:35.620 commit crimes. No one. No one is there. The real challenge 759 00:47:35.620 --> 00:47:39.160 here is that you can't say it's somebody else's job. 760 00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:43.440 Yeah, it's all of our jobs. Absolutely. Yeah. We need 761 00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:47.160 to stay together. Whether you're a lawyer, farmer, healthcare 762 00:47:47.160 --> 00:47:50.880 worker, teacher, everyday citizen, I think that at 763 00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:54.200 the end, defending human rights, which is what this is about, 764 00:47:54.520 --> 00:47:58.160 follow the rules, defend human rights in 765 00:47:58.160 --> 00:48:01.960 this ever changing legal landscape is not a 766 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:04.620 solo act, but it's a community effort. 767 00:48:05.650 --> 00:48:09.330 Thanks so much, Sonia. I think hearing firsthand how 768 00:48:09.330 --> 00:48:12.770 people are helping immigrants feel safer in their communities 769 00:48:12.930 --> 00:48:16.610 is incredibly heartwarming, but that's certainly something 770 00:48:16.770 --> 00:48:20.569 they need right now. We hope you learned something about the horrendous 771 00:48:20.569 --> 00:48:24.130 consequences the Trump Administration policies have had 772 00:48:24.290 --> 00:48:28.130 on rural immigrants and communities. And if there's something 773 00:48:28.130 --> 00:48:31.910 you think we need to talk about, please let us know. Email us your 774 00:48:31.910 --> 00:48:34.070 thoughts. Our email address is 775 00:48:34.070 --> 00:48:37.870 podcast@onecountryproject.org. That's 776 00:48:37.870 --> 00:48:41.710 podcast@onecountryproject.org. And check us 777 00:48:41.710 --> 00:48:45.510 out on Bluesky and Substack. Thank you for joining 778 00:48:45.510 --> 00:48:45.830 us. 779 00:48:46.390 --> 00:48:52.070 Thank 780 00:48:52.070 --> 00:48:55.710 you for joining us today on the Hot Dish, which is brought to you by 781 00:48:55.710 --> 00:48:59.350 the One Country Project, making sure the voices of the rest of us are 782 00:48:59.350 --> 00:49:01.690 heard in Washington. Learn more 783 00:49:01.690 --> 00:49:05.490 at onecountryproject.org. We'll be back in two weeks 784 00:49:05.490 --> 00:49:08.530 with more Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America.