Christian Napier 00:13 - 00:21 Well, hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Teamwork, A Better Way. I'm Christian Apier, joined by my amazing co-host, as always, Spencer Horne. Spencer, how are you? Spencer Horn 00:22 - 00:33 I am great, Christian. I love, love, love that we always get to have this conversation. Almost weekly. I mean, not always, but mostly weekly. Spencer Horn 00:33 - 00:38 Those of you who listen, maybe you're hoping that we would be more regular. Christian Napier 00:39 - 00:51 Well, it's hard because we all have day jobs, right? Yeah. And you are an extremely busy person. You've got speaking engagements all over the country, all over the world. Christian Napier 00:52 - 00:58 You were just telling me you're getting on a plane tomorrow heading to the great city of Minneapolis. Super excited to hear more. Spencer Horn 00:59 - 01:14 Yeah, no, I'm excited to hear that and to go there. I think the next I have is Detroit, then Panama City, then Amsterdam, then Bali. That's just in September. Wow. Christian Napier 01:15 - 01:18 That is a crazy September. Super exciting. Spencer Horn 01:18 - 01:23 Actually, that's the first week, including the first week in October. I'm sorry. Yeah. Oh, okay. Spencer Horn 01:23 - 01:24 Well, nitpick. Christian Napier 01:27 - 01:43 We have our guest on now, so let's... Spencer, why don't you do the honors of introducing our guest who's joining us all the way. from Dubai in the UAE. Super honored and excited to have Sahil join us. Christian Napier 01:43 - 01:44 So go ahead, Spencer. Spencer Horn 01:44 - 02:07 Yeah, so Sahil Mehta is a CEO, an entrepreneur with business spanning two continents. And he is the best-selling author of the book, Break Free. He's a keynote speaker, a success coach. who has worked with hundreds of businesses and business owners over 25 countries. Spencer Horn 02:07 - 02:55 And he facilitates for EO, which is the entrepreneur organization, YPO, Young Entrepreneurs and Operators. And he has been mentored by Marshall Goldsmith and is part of the MG100, pretty rare and special to be part of that small group. and his book is called Break Free, as I said, and it's about moving from fear of judgment and self-sabotage to what he calls conscious leadership. He's also a mountaineer, which I love, and he's summited Elbrus and Kilimanjaro, and he's used that experience to talk about pacing, trust, and knowing when to turn back, all of which apply directly to how we build teams. Spencer Horn 02:56 - 02:59 Welcome, Sahil, so good to have you. Saahil Mehta 03:00 - 03:01 Such a pleasure to be here. Spencer Horn 03:03 - 03:28 Well, sometimes when we go live, we have challenges, but we do our best to adapt. And I just wanted to start off with a question. Sahil, you described decades of people pleasing and burnout while chasing society's definition of success. What did that look like day to day? Spencer Horn 03:29 - 03:33 And what was the moment you realized it just wasn't working anymore? Saahil Mehta 03:36 - 04:08 It was one of those moments where you get to a point you thought you've reached success because your 20 year old self, if I said that if I have seven figure net worth, family, a nice house, rockstar car, you know, maybe a Porsche or something, which is what I was driving a nice watch. You're able to, you're debt free, able to travel the world and you've got your own company and things are going pretty well. So check, check, check, check, check, but not feeling excited. Saahil Mehta 04:10 - 04:36 And first I said to myself, maybe are you just being ungrateful because you, you have this amazing life that people would trade for. in a heartbeat and you're feeling unfulfilled, like what's going on? And as I started to dig a little deeper, I realized that the definition of success that I had been following all this time, you know, I followed it to the T. It was a system I followed to the T. Saahil Mehta 04:37 - 04:54 Get great grades in school, you get to a good college. Get great grades at college, you're gonna get a great job. My first job, I was an investment banker, this is now 20 plus years ago, and I was earning $80,000 plus in my first year. That's a lot of money. Saahil Mehta 04:56 - 05:17 So I followed the system, but what I didn't realize was that the system wasn't mine. And here's the thing, we all are different. Christian, Spencer, the audience, we all have a unique fingerprint. And yet the definition of success that I was chasing was pretty much similar to a whole bunch of other people. Saahil Mehta 05:18 - 05:45 I mean, in fact, millions and millions who were chasing the same. And what I realized was it wasn't mine. It's something that I inherited from family, society, from media, social media, the educational system, et cetera. And the more I started to be aware and think about it, I realized, well, if that's not what success means to you, then why don't you go about and start defining it for yourself? Saahil Mehta 05:47 - 05:59 Now, it's easier said than done. I'd been following this system for decades. And all of a sudden, I've got this blank sheet of paper, and I've got to figure out what steps to take. So that was the seed that was planted. Saahil Mehta 06:00 - 06:27 And then in 2016, so this is when I'm 36 years old, I went on a retreat with some fellow entrepreneurs. And during this retreat, because you talk about the people-pleasing, part of that came from the fear of judgment, of what others are going to think about me. So I'm on this retreat, and we agreed to two words, no judgment. I mean, wow, I felt this huge weight lifted off my shoulders. Saahil Mehta 06:28 - 06:41 I didn't have to pretend to be someone I'm not. And using the mountain analogies, I just let go of this big rock in my backpack that I'd been carrying for so long. Now I'm lighter. I'm feeling great. Saahil Mehta 06:41 - 06:58 I'm having a great time. And I can only describe the four days of that retreat as euphoric. So as I come back home, I want to note down all these amazing experiences I've had with my wife. So I asked the air hostess on the plane, can I get a pen and paper? Saahil Mehta 06:59 - 07:14 So I start writing away. I start jotting down all these memories and these epiphanies, et cetera. And all of a sudden, I feel these trickles of water going down my face. And now I'm thinking, what's going on? Saahil Mehta 07:14 - 07:23 Because it's not like you to cry. But I said, you know what? I've got these other entrepreneurs on my left and on my right. No judgment. Saahil Mehta 07:23 - 07:42 It doesn't matter. Just let it flow. Just process. And as I did that, I realized that if this is the guy that I am, when I don't have any fear of judgment, where life is so beautiful, then who is this guy that I'm going back to? Saahil Mehta 07:43 - 08:03 That's not me. And okay, I understand we live in a world that has a lot of judgment. And I said to myself, even if I'm half the man that I was over the last four days, that's still way better off than where I am right now. And that kind of allowed me to begin this journey of what am I carrying in my backpack? Saahil Mehta 08:04 - 08:23 Is it serving me as I climb my metaphorical mountains and start to discover what success really means to me? And so you asked me, what did my life look like back then? Even though I ate well, I exercised. Well, I was constantly bloated. Saahil Mehta 08:24 - 08:40 I wasn't sleeping very well and would wake up with a heavy head and a blocked nose. I used to have, and this was the worst part. I used to have these energy dips. And when I say energy dip, in some cases it was so bad. Saahil Mehta 08:40 - 08:51 I would just fall asleep. Now I've fallen asleep. On my desk, I've fallen asleep in restaurants. I've fallen asleep on the sofa when I've had friends over. Saahil Mehta 08:52 - 09:17 I've fallen asleep in a nightclub, even with all that sound. And the worst was once I fell asleep behind the wheel. And I covered this in my TED talk when I talk about how people-pleasing almost cost me my life. but I guess it wasn't my time to go because my wife and I, even though the car was completely smashed from all directions and thank God, no one was hurt. Saahil Mehta 09:18 - 09:39 We didn't hit any other car, but I went off the road into the rocks and trees. We walked out with minor bruising, but what I realized was, and it's like the frog in boiling water. the temperature was increasing ever so much year by year by year. So I didn't really notice the big impact. Saahil Mehta 09:39 - 10:13 And I kept telling myself, Oh, just accept yourself for who you are and how you feel. But the reality is if something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. And so that's when I really started, you know, that and the trip, all these things coming together, I realized that, I need to start discovering who I am and what success means to me. Because if I can live a life of success by my own definition, I move towards fulfillment, which is essentially moving away from regret. Saahil Mehta 10:15 - 10:21 And that's what's going to give me inner peace. And that's how I'll be able to function at a very, very, very high level. Christian Napier 10:25 - 10:44 This is fascinating. There's a lot to unpack there. I appreciate you giving us the context. One thing that I was thinking about as I was reading up in preparation for our conversation today, you used the mountain analogy, and you talk about decluttering and getting stuff out of your backpack. Christian Napier 10:44 - 11:18 And I want to get into all of that in a bit. But one of the things that you talk about is you can spend a lot of time and energy climbing the wrong mountains. And so it sounds to me like you had spent your life doing that, thinking that every time I get to the summit of this, that I will find peace, I will be satisfied, I will be happy, but it doesn't happen, right? And so you got to a point where you're like, okay, I've been summoning the wrong mountains for a long time. Christian Napier 11:19 - 11:32 But how do you go about finding the right one? For you, it's like, OK, I went to this retreat four days. It helped me kind of change my mindset, re-evaluate everything. Is that what people need to do? Christian Napier 11:32 - 12:08 What's the process that folks, or is it individual to every, specific to every individual, what's the process that you got to go through, not just to be aware that you're climbing the wrong ones, because Your body and your mind were telling you, with physical exhaustion, you're sick. Like, OK, I'm spending a lot of energy doing the wrong things. But how do you find the right things? How do you get to that place, not just that you're aware of what's going wrong, but finding the path to the mountains that you really want to summit that are going to bring you that lasting fulfillment and that happiness? Spencer Horn 12:08 - 12:17 Hold on, Sahil. I'm going to put you on your own camera here. Just one second. Uh-oh, maybe that doesn't work. Spencer Horn 12:18 - 12:25 Maybe we'll just keep it like this. All right, go ahead. I wanted to highlight you, but we're adapting here live. Saahil Mehta 12:27 - 12:41 I love the question, Christian, and I'm going to just add one more comment to it before I answer. You mentioned how do you recognize when things are not going great? Well, I want to say one thing. Sometimes things are going great, or should I say good. Saahil Mehta 12:42 - 13:03 but there's a difference also between good and great. And if you keep making decisions that lead to a good life, it still may be a life that you will wake up one day and regret. So by following what I'm about to share, you can start making decisions that push you towards a great life. One that takes you away from regret. Saahil Mehta 13:04 - 13:40 So the good news is I spent a lot of time on this and I had to develop a framework which I'm gonna be honest, it's not like I came, I'm not Einstein and I came up with a concept that's original. I took lots of these learnings from all these great masters out there, these great mentors and coaches that I've had and these amazing folks who share online. And what I did was using that and my mountain experience, I put something which I felt with my engineering mindset, something that's easy to understand and logical. So let me share how that goes. Saahil Mehta 13:41 - 14:03 And by the way, the good news is this entire process and framework is going to be in my upcoming book that comes out early next year, titled The Zero Regret Entrepreneur, which I'm co-authoring with Marshall Goldsmith. So here's how it works. In the mountaineering world, we have something that is known as the Seven Summits. That's the tallest mountain on every continent. Saahil Mehta 14:04 - 14:19 And it's said that once you conquer these seven mountains, you've conquered the world. So I started thinking to myself, what about my inner seven summits? What if I was able to conquer my inner world? And that's where it all began. Saahil Mehta 14:19 - 14:45 So I take people through this process and I'll highlight it fairly quickly is I give a list of different areas of life just to get you started because it's maybe hard to think about what's important for you. But if, if, if you say that there's something else that's important for you, that's not on the list by all means, you can adapt it because ultimately it's your definition of success and we're not trying to push you in any direction. Spencer Horn 14:45 - 14:48 It could be five or eight or 10 summits. Saahil Mehta 14:49 - 14:55 Right. Well, in this case, I still push for seven. And I'll tell you why I push for seven. You know, sometimes people are like, why not three or four? Saahil Mehta 14:56 - 15:07 I said, well, listen, if it's three, everyone's going to pick health wealth relationships. It's too obvious. Yeah. But by pushing you to pick seven, you start to think about the other areas of your life that are important for you. Saahil Mehta 15:09 - 15:26 So once they've identified the seven different areas of their life that ultimately make up success because if you succeed in one area and unhappy in the others, you're still going to be miserable. You're going to have all the health in the world and nothing else. Life sucks. You could have all the money in the world and nothing else. Saahil Mehta 15:26 - 15:37 Life sucks. You get my point. So you define the seven and then you ask yourself, fine, I'm juggling these seven on a daily basis, right? It's a balancing act. Saahil Mehta 15:39 - 15:50 Everyone talks about this balance in life. So you're constantly juggling these seven balls. Now the thing is, some of these balls are made of crystal. You drop them, smashes. Saahil Mehta 15:51 - 16:04 The others are made of rubber. It can bounce back. So in my case, health is a crystal ball. Once I lose it, I might be on medication for life or I've broken something, or I have some autoimmune disease, whatever. Saahil Mehta 16:05 - 16:13 It's very difficult to reverse. And no matter how much I do, I'll never be the same again. Money on the other hand, for me is a rubber ball. I could lose everything. Saahil Mehta 16:14 - 16:32 And we've seen people, you know, as famous as Elon Musk, who've almost gone bankrupt a couple of times and they've bounced back and how. So I look at that as a rubber ball. Now each person gets to define for themselves, which is a crystal ball and rubber ball. So now you've got the seven things that are most important to you. Saahil Mehta 16:32 - 17:04 You decide which ones are crystal and rubber, and then you'll put them in order of priority because in some cases, certain things take precedent. Like for example, in my case, family will always take precedent over fun and recreation. So we put all those in order. Now the beauty of having these seven defined in the order of priority and knowing which are crystal and rubber balls, every decision you make, you can ask yourself, what is the net effect on these seven mountains? Saahil Mehta 17:06 - 17:23 Because the previous version of me with my blinders on, I would see, growth in company or more money? And I'm like, let's go. But when I said yes to that, what did I say no to? And that wasn't clear for me before. Saahil Mehta 17:23 - 17:48 Now I see a bigger picture because I've zoomed out. So your decision making becomes a lot more simple. It gives you a lot more clarity. And of course there are times when you have to make sacrifices, but I always tell my coaching clients that I've been working with for years and years, When it's repeated, it's no longer a sacrifice because they always said, yes, just when I get here, I'm going to give Saahil Mehta 17:48 - 18:00 more attention to my family or my health. And then a couple of months later, something else shows up a few months after that. Another important thing shows up to the point where I say, here's the mirror. Just be honest with yourself. Saahil Mehta 18:01 - 18:12 Don't tell me that health and family is important for you and your biggest priority when your decisions and actions are stating otherwise. So it's important to be aware and reflect upon this. Spencer Horn 18:12 - 18:34 Where does that come from, Sahil? This, I'll wait till I get to this mountain, or even you, you said you had to drop this judgment. Where did all these things that you put in your backpack came from that causes us to say, I have to focus here? Where does this people-pleasing, if you will, start? Spencer Horn 18:34 - 18:48 And how does that impact everybody else? I mean, family, the team, when you're just, It's almost like you're describing we're programmed and we become automatic in this type of thinking. Saahil Mehta 18:49 - 19:13 I love it. And what my coach asks me one day, what she asked me one day in one of my coaching sessions, because it was something I was struggling with, and I can't remember, but I remember what she asked me because it was so powerful. She said, Sahil, what belief system of yours is no longer serving you? And what belief system do you now need to replace it with so it can serve you? Saahil Mehta 19:16 - 19:33 And I'll give you an example. Growing up and you hear these quotes, maybe your parents tell you, maybe your sports coach tells you or your teacher, never give up, never give up. We've all heard, never give up. And it's, it's, it's encouraging. Saahil Mehta 19:34 - 19:55 And like everything, it makes sense to a certain point. after which it can potentially cause more damage than good. It's holding onto that business that you really should have quit or stopped years ago, but you kept telling yourself, never give up. Failure is not an option, but then what is it costing you? Saahil Mehta 19:58 - 20:08 Another simple example, you're running the marathon and you are out of the 26.2 miles. You're now at mile 24 and you can't walk. You can't forget run. You can't walk. Saahil Mehta 20:08 - 20:17 You're crawling. And you're like, I never give up. I, if I have to crawl, I'll get there. But then how much of your limbs or your body are you damaging? Saahil Mehta 20:19 - 20:40 And will that ever be repaired? Now that point, do give up because your health is very important. And just by hanging onto this belief system, which at this point is not serving you, it can actually destroy you. So the key then becomes is how do you start recognizing these belief systems? Saahil Mehta 20:41 - 20:51 And the, one of the ways is by asking yourself, what is a belief system of mine that is no longer serving me? And what do I need to replace it with? So it can take me to the next level. Christian Napier 20:56 - 21:23 OK, this is really, really fascinating. I like this analogy of the seven summits. And one of the questions that I have, Sahil, when you mention this, is I don't think that there are very many people in the history of the world that have actually summited the seven highest peaks on the seven continents, right? It's a minuscule number. Christian Napier 21:23 - 21:37 I don't know what the number is. maybe 1,000, I don't know. But it's probably a very, very small number. So there could be a lot of people who are listening to this podcast who say, OK, well, that sounds fine. Christian Napier 21:37 - 21:54 But is it really achievable for me? Because it's a very rare feat for someone to summit seven highest peaks in seven different continents. And to do that, people have to have resources. They've got to have time. Christian Napier 21:55 - 22:22 And they not only have to have the physical capacity, but it also takes teamwork to do those kind of things. You can't do it all by yourself. You got to have funding, and you got to have people around you that can support you. And so for the person who is feeling a bit burned out, maybe even isolated or alone, you know, thinking about, wow, summoning seven peaks, even though they're kind of the inner peaks in my soul, I don't know if I can do it. Christian Napier 22:23 - 23:00 I don't know if I've got the confidence to embark on this journey to, you know, to self-actualization, to realizing my potential and finding my inner joy and happiness. So what would you say to people who, you know, on the surface are like, yeah, that sounds really cool. Then, you know, they quickly sink into, yeah, but not for me because You know, I'm not a successful entrepreneur. I haven't, I don't have this, you know, comfortable bank account that'll allow me to go on a vision quest to go do something. Christian Napier 23:01 - 23:16 I'm just trying to survive day to day. What do you say to people who may be lacking some confidence, maybe have a little bit of fear and trepidation about embarking on this journey because they just feel like they're going to fail again? Saahil Mehta 23:19 - 23:39 Well, I want to start by saying and to the people that are listening is I hear you and I feel you because I've been there many a times. There's so many times where I've, I've asked myself, is it worth it? Can I do it? Do I have the time, the bandwidth? Saahil Mehta 23:40 - 24:05 I mean, whatever doubt or fear that's been in my mind, many of them have crossed, including And you mentioned my book, Break Free, which is here, a guide to decluttering your life. In school, I got an A in every subject except English. It was the only subject where I got a C. And I told myself, you're not a writer. Saahil Mehta 24:07 - 24:27 What if people ridicule and mock your book? What if you get bad reviews? So there's so many reasons not to do something. I had many, I can, I mean, I gave you a couple, but if you want, I can go on and on and on about why I should not have written that book. Saahil Mehta 24:29 - 24:59 So then I asked myself, what is the one reason you do need to write the book? And I said, if it can just change one person's life and make it better where their life was We're filled with more joy, more inner peace, more fulfillment. As a result of me writing the book, even if hundreds of thousands say it's rubbish, it's okay. Cause I made a difference in one person's life. Saahil Mehta 25:00 - 25:28 Now, what I didn't realize gentlemen is when I wrote the book, the first person had actually changed was me. So to all the people, that are listening. There's hundreds, I'm sure thousands of reasons why something may not work, why it's not a good idea, but what is that one reason that you should do it? Cause I believe in you. Saahil Mehta 25:29 - 25:36 And when I think of writing a book, I'm like, Oh my God, it sounds like a lot. I think of writing a chapter. Oh my goodness. It's still a lot. Saahil Mehta 25:36 - 26:01 You tell me, write one paragraph. I can do that. And so for the folks, I mean, the success definition that people can do, and in the show notes, I can share a link where they can go and go through the process of defining success for themselves, that might take you half an hour to an hour. That's the time you need to invest. Saahil Mehta 26:02 - 26:24 And after that, You may not conquer all seven, but this is your North star. It gives you direction because the last thing you want to do is wake up when you're 80 or 90 or a hundred. And nowadays people are saying in a live till 120 and look back at your life and go, I wish I did. And you're filled with regret. Saahil Mehta 26:25 - 26:42 I mean, you know, the five regrets of the dying, a great book that I constantly look at. And the number one regret is I wish I had the courage to live a life true to myself than the life others expected of me. When I know that's the number one regret of the dying, I tell myself, I don't want to be that person. So what steps can I take not to be there? Saahil Mehta 26:44 - 27:09 And so again, once you have your definition, you have your North star, And when you have your North star that gives you direction, all you have to do each day is what is one step that I can take today? Not five steps, not 10, not a hundred. It doesn't have to be big. Just one step, one step that takes me closer to one of the seven summits in that I've highlighted. Saahil Mehta 27:10 - 27:17 And if you just keep doing that day after day after day, you eventually make it pretty high up the mountain. Spencer Horn 27:29 - 27:49 You know, that's exactly how I climb mountains. I have never climbed Kilimanjaro or Elbrus, but I just find that if I look up at the summit, it's almost insurmountable. I mean, I just feel like, oh, I'm never going to make it. So I say, OK, let me go 100 yards. Spencer Horn 27:49 - 28:04 And let me go another 100 yards. And then after a while, I look back and I go, wow, I've come a long way. But it's, Christian and I were, while we were waiting for you, we were just talking about, I just finished writing my book, Sahil. And- Congratulations. Spencer Horn 28:05 - 28:27 Thank you. And it has taken, this is not an exaggeration, over a decade. And it's so interesting, you know, you talk about in your book, this fear of judgment and self-sabotage is, really the impact that it has on us, who's going to listen to me? My mother was an English teacher and I used to get all kinds of feedback. Spencer Horn 28:27 - 28:49 She would have been apoplectic if I got a C in English and I did anyway. I got plenty of other bad grades. I didn't get my first 4.0 until my master's degree. But it was, again, this self-judgment, who is going to be interested in what I have to say? Spencer Horn 28:49 - 29:10 Who am I? I've never climbed any amazing mountain except here on the Wasatch Front. I just had all these doubts. And I am sending this to people, asking them to evaluated Sahil, nervous that they're going to think, oh my gosh, what a fraud, how stupid. Spencer Horn 29:10 - 29:42 And then I get a couple of people responding back like, this is great, this is amazing. And I'm like, really? I'm surprised because of this belief system that so many of us have that we self-sabotage. And so, you know, where does this fear of judgment hide in people that even look confident and are putting on this facade of confidence on the outside, where does that come from? Saahil Mehta 29:44 - 30:08 Well, again, I can't speak for everyone, but I can certainly share my own story, because I know that really well. Where did people-pleasing come from for me, personally? It came from, if you please your parents, and I'm now talking when you're a young child, You might get certain things that you ask for. You might get that candy at the candy store. Saahil Mehta 30:08 - 30:35 You might get to go watch the movie at the cinema, et cetera, et cetera. So you're like, oh, this works. I please someone, and I get things that I want in return. And then after that, as I grew a little older, pre-teen, or even before that, my parents are telling me, especially in the community that I grew up in, always don't do anything that would make your parents walk around with their heads down in shame. Saahil Mehta 30:37 - 30:51 Always serve others. Treat your guests like they're royalty. So there's a lot of these belief systems or things that I was told as a young child that I just latched onto. And yes, maybe it served me at a certain point in my life. Saahil Mehta 30:52 - 31:04 And yes, it probably serves me even today. But here's the thing, and please don't get me wrong, people pleasing is lovely. It's nice to make someone else happy. Why wouldn't you want to put a smile on someone else's face? Saahil Mehta 31:05 - 31:07 But not at the expense. Spencer Horn 31:11 - 31:16 Right, at the expense of what? What are you saying no to, as you said before, right? Saahil Mehta 31:18 - 32:01 Yes, someone was calling me, apologies. Not at the expense. where it causes you a lot of pain again and again and again do not say yes when you really want to say no because if you keep doing that at some point and in my case i started losing confidence i started questioning my self-worth but i was making others happy and what i realized was people started to fall in love with the inauthentic version of me And then I had to keep it up, which is a lot of effort, because that's not who I am in my native state. Saahil Mehta 32:02 - 32:07 I'm constantly wearing this mask and being someone that I'm not, which is a lot of hard work. Spencer Horn 32:08 - 32:27 I think this is really important. This actually speaks to the title of our podcast today, which is Scale Without Sacrifice, right? And why burnout isn't the price of success. Can you just, can you tie that title to what you just said? Spencer Horn 32:28 - 32:33 Because I think there's a strong correlation because you're sacrificing who you really are. Yeah. Saahil Mehta 32:35 - 33:18 Absolutely and look of course when I climb any mountain physical or metaphorical I am making sacrifices but those sacrifices are choices that I'm happy with, I'm content with, I'm okay with. It's the sacrifices that I'm making whether it's through people pleasing or the fear of judgment or whatever other belief systems that I was holding on to that's causing pain That's the sacrifice I don't want to make because that's taking me away from who I truly am. And if I'm constantly living a life that's not me, then how can I be confident with the real version of me? That's not a sacrifice I'm willing to make. Saahil Mehta 33:18 - 33:28 In fact, I would go as far as saying I would much rather someone hate the real version of me than love the version of me that is not real. Christian Napier 33:41 - 34:07 So Sahil, one of the questions that's popped in my head is, as we talk about these concepts, they feel very personal, specific to the individual. But when it comes to teamwork, you know, building teams. Can the same apply to teams? Can teams identify their seven summits? Christian Napier 34:08 - 34:18 You know, can they come to an agreement on a shared vision and prioritize and declutter? Or is this primarily an individual pursuit? Saahil Mehta 34:21 - 34:53 The way that I framed it till now, it's definitely more focused on the individual. However, If I shift to the team, it's all about ensuring that we're climbing the same mountain. Because if the team, if one is climbing Kilimanjaro, the other one, Everest, the other one, Elbrus, the other one, you know, Tropicalqui, you know, there's so many mountains out there. But we all agree that we're climbing a mountain. Saahil Mehta 34:53 - 35:20 If we're climbing different mountains, how are we going to get great results? And I found with my work, with these amazing business owners over the years, that in so many cases, people just assume that the team members know which mountain they're climbing, but it's not always the case. So it's very important to highlight and to ensure that is the team climbing the same mountain? Because if you are, then you can support one another. Saahil Mehta 35:20 - 35:32 You're following the same direction and you'll certainly get results a lot faster. Otherwise, there's a lot of, conflict, right? Budding of heads. And it's not because I'm better than you or you're better than me. Saahil Mehta 35:32 - 35:58 It's because we're not climbing the same mountain. And if I can kind of tie that into a personal story again, when I was evolving at a very fast pace, I wasn't keeping my wife up to date with what's going on because the person that I was and the person I was becoming was so different. At some point she says, Who are you? Like, I don't recognize you anymore. Saahil Mehta 35:59 - 36:11 And that was starting to cause a lot of problems in our marriage. And this kind of happens in, in the workspace as well. I'm just using a personal analogy that people can relate to. And then we started having silly arguments. Saahil Mehta 36:11 - 36:29 I mean, I would say this shirt that I'm wearing is blue and she'd go, no, it's light blue. And you know, it's, it's, it's such a silly argument. It just, it was argue for the sake of arguing to the point where once I said, listen, Like, I want this relationship to work. Do you? Saahil Mehta 36:29 - 36:41 Because I can't do this fighting and quabbling nonstop. And she said, yes. Finally, we agreed on something. Once we agreed on that summit, then it was, okay, what can we do together? Saahil Mehta 36:41 - 36:54 How do we co-create so that we can climb this mountain together? And so the same applies in teams in the office. Agree on what the summit is. It has to be crystal clear for every single member on that team. Saahil Mehta 36:55 - 37:16 And then it's not, I say you do, because that's the leader of the past, as we know from Peter Drucker, one of the greatest out there. The leader of the future knows how to ask. So it's, how do we collectively climb this mountain so that we all succeed? Now you start to get all these wonderful ideas from all the team members, regardless of their level. Saahil Mehta 37:17 - 37:40 And once you've got buy-in, because it's no longer I said you do, but we all agreed, now you start climbing. And oh boy, everyone is in sync. There might be a few hiccups along the way, but overall, people are in sync and climbing the same mountain and walking together. And they have their milestones along the way clearly labeled. Saahil Mehta 37:40 - 37:42 That's how teamwork leads to success. Spencer Horn 38:00 - 38:33 You talk about this idea of knowing when to turn back, and as you apply that to teams, if you're pushing towards a goal, when do you stop? And then how do you message that to the team to share that we're not quitting, because you talked about the marathon. My dad was a marathon runner, and I think he ran seven marathons, which I think is pretty amazing. And he ran one months after we had a bicycle accident. Spencer Horn 38:33 - 38:45 He crashed his bike and broke three ribs. So he's running just a few months after that, and he got to mile 26 and was in Tremendous pain. You know, I was 15 years old. I'm like, Dad, you can't quit. Spencer Horn 38:45 - 39:01 You're almost done. And he finished. He finished. And I don't know if his pushing so hard to be this marathon runner or healthy contributed to him having a stroke at 59. Spencer Horn 39:02 - 39:14 But maybe. But when do you say no? And how do you message that? Because there are a lot of people on that team that have this don't quit mentality. Saahil Mehta 39:16 - 39:27 I love your question. Here's the thing. In the heat of the moment, we're all human beings, right? So we have emotion. Saahil Mehta 39:28 - 39:42 And in the heat of the moment, there's a lot of emotion involved. And when people are very emotional, it's very difficult to make the right decision. because people will have very different views. I mean, we're all different people. Saahil Mehta 39:42 - 40:16 So of course we're going to have different perspectives. So that's why, and I'm going to use a mountain analogy again, when we are climbing any high altitude mountain where we're going above 20,000 feet, I'm telling you, when you have lack of oxygen, lack of food, lack of sleep, you're not always going to make the right decision. So what we do before we start climbing the mountain, so before any major project, before any major initiative in the company, discuss the what ifs. We already know the probability. Saahil Mehta 40:16 - 40:34 I mean, you know, we're not going to discuss what if the dinosaurs come back because the probability is so low, it doesn't make sense. But there are things that where the probability is significant. There might be a 15%, 20, 30, 40, 50, whatever it is, of something happening. Bring it onto the table. Saahil Mehta 40:35 - 40:48 Have the discussion before you start. If this happens, what decision are we going to make? So that when it does happen, if it happens, the decision's already been made. There is no discussion. Saahil Mehta 40:50 - 41:09 Because again, when I'm at 18,000 feet, approaching the 20,000 feet, And something happens, someone's going to say, and by the way, this happened in one of the worst accidents ever on Mount Everest. Someone said, this is the third time I'm climbing. I didn't make the first two. We're almost there. Saahil Mehta 41:10 - 41:35 Please, we have to go. And the lead climbers, the guides who are so experienced said, OK. That okay resulted in one of the worst accidents ever because suddenly, and this happens on the mountains, where there's unpredictable in the afternoon, the weather suddenly changed wind, strong winds came about. A lot of mountaineers got stuck. Saahil Mehta 41:36 - 42:10 And unfortunately many of those who got stuck passed away. That's because they did not follow the golden rule, which was at this time, wherever you are or at this you know depending on where you are in the time you turn around and you go down because going up is optional coming down is mandatory so if you enter any project any initiative anything that the company is doing have the what-if discussions and once those situations occur there's nothing to discuss because the decision has already been made Spencer Horn 42:11 - 42:30 I like that, and you can do that in forms of agreements, and I don't think organizations or teams make agreements in advance, and you do that when everyone is excited and on board. I think that's a brilliant suggestion. Yeah, I love that too. Christian Napier 42:35 - 43:26 uh, question that the analogy brings to my mind is, is, um, uh, you know, oftentimes, uh, I'm no mountaineer, so, you know, I'm not speaking with any kind of authority or experience here. You know, you watch a documentary like free solo or something like this or you know watch a few of those kind of things you start to learn things like hey well um sometimes there are different routes you know up to the summit so you can go this way you can go that way um and so it may not necessarily be i might be stretching this analogy a little bit too far you tell me but it might be hey you know uh the goal is worthy but the you know, tactically, the way that we're approaching it may not be optimal. Christian Napier 43:27 - 44:05 And maybe we need to reassess and go back down and choose different routing. And so one of the questions I have for you is, you know, as a leader, how do you, how do you discern between you know, we're attempting to summit the wrong mountain, or no, we are trying to summit the right mountain, but we're taking the wrong route. You know, we need to kind of rethink our route and try this other approach that will hopefully lead us to the outcome that we're looking for. As a leader, how do you kind of make that kind of judgment call? Saahil Mehta 44:07 - 44:21 Love it. So I met this army captain. And I still remember this conversation with him vividly. And he said, Sahil, don't use a ladder to go up. Saahil Mehta 44:22 - 44:49 Build scaffolding instead. So that for whatever reason, if the path that you're on, you find an obstacle that you weren't aware about, you can then shuffle to the left or to the right and continue on up because you have scaffolding rather than a ladder. And that really opened my mind because you don't know what you don't know. Surprises can happen. Saahil Mehta 44:50 - 45:01 Laws can change. Situations can change. So many things can evolve. But if you only have one path, you risk everything on that one path. Saahil Mehta 45:01 - 45:05 But if you've built scaffolding, you always have the ability to shift. Spencer Horn 45:10 - 45:30 Sometimes though, I got to tell you, we got, my friend and I, we summited a mountain and we were, the coming down is the hard part, right? We were going down a different way, but we had run out of water and our plan was to get into the valley where the water was. And we could not find the path down. And it's a big circ. Spencer Horn 45:31 - 45:46 And so, I mean, I'm pretty experienced. And so I just surveyed, and I go, OK, we're going to run out of water. And then the sun's going to go down, and we're going to be dehydrated, and we're going to be in big trouble. So Christian, I just found a path that had the least distance to fall. Spencer Horn 45:47 - 45:56 We found boulders and trees. And if we did fall, it wouldn't be more than 20 feet. And we made it there. He was cursing me so bad. Spencer Horn 45:56 - 46:09 We were three-pointing it backwards, climbing down backwards on cliffs with full backpacks. And we had one path down, and it sucked. But we got there, and we survived. Sometimes it's just stupid luck, right? Spencer Horn 46:10 - 46:18 Oh, boy. Well, speaking of, well, I'm not going to say that. Just luck. We were lucky today to have a great guest, Christian. Spencer Horn 46:19 - 46:24 We're running out of time. It went fast. I have so much more to ask. Should we get to the lightning round? Christian Napier 46:25 - 46:36 Yeah, let's do it. I can't believe it's our, you know, I don't know what time it is in Dubai, but it's 1053 in the morning here. I'm shocked. I thought we'd been talking about 30 minutes. Christian Napier 46:36 - 46:38 I can't believe that the time has flown so quickly. Spencer Horn 46:39 - 46:52 So, all right, so here's the story, Sahil. I've got 10 questions, one word answers, or super just like one sentence, all right? We're gonna go as fast as we can. None of these are rehearsed, you just gotta go with it. Spencer Horn 46:52 - 47:02 All right, you ready? Let's go. Summit or Basecamp, where does the real leadership happen? Basecamp. Spencer Horn 47:03 - 47:15 One word for what most leaders are actually chasing? Inner peace. Fill in the blank, burnout is really a sign of? Saahil Mehta 47:18 - 47:19 Lack of awareness. Spencer Horn 47:21 - 47:24 Harder to learn, saying no or hearing no? Saahil Mehta 47:27 - 47:28 Definitely saying no. Spencer Horn 47:29 - 47:40 Kilimanjaro or Elbrus, which taught you more? Kilimanjaro. The worst piece of advice successful people get. Saahil Mehta 47:44 - 47:45 You'll be happy when. Spencer Horn 47:47 - 48:03 Stress less or grow faster. If you could only fix one first. Stress less. One habit you dropped, excuse me, one habit you dropped that your team noticed immediately. Saahil Mehta 48:08 - 48:15 Ooh, wow. It wasn't immediately, but I noticed it after a while and it was people-pleasing. Spencer Horn 48:17 - 48:21 Best thing Marshall Goldsmith has said to you in five words or fewer? Saahil Mehta 48:25 - 48:27 Every breath is a new me. Spencer Horn 48:29 - 48:39 Finish this sentence. Great teamwork happens when? You're climbing the same mountain. All right, there you go. Spencer Horn 48:40 - 48:41 You heard it here. Christian Napier 48:41 - 48:48 Oh, wow. Well, this hour has just flown by. It's been fantastic, Sahil. We appreciate you joining us. Christian Napier 48:49 - 49:02 If people want to get the book, Break Free, folks go out and get it. If they want to learn more about how you can help them individually or help their organizations, what's the best way for folks to reach out and connect with you, Sahil? Saahil Mehta 49:04 - 49:26 The best place to connect with me is on LinkedIn. It's very simple. It's just my name, Sahil Mehta, so they can find me very easily. And if people are ready to embark on their journey of discovering what success means to them, they can just visit my website, www.sahilmehta.com slash successaudit. Saahil Mehta 49:27 - 49:34 And just in case you're having troubles with spelling my name, I'll be sending the link over so it'll be in the show notes. Spencer Horn 49:34 - 49:40 Yeah, I have several of those, including a link to your book already from your assistant. We'll put in the show notes for sure. Christian Napier 49:42 - 50:03 Yeah, we'll definitely get those in the show notes and we'll ask our listeners and viewers to check out those show notes and go connect with Sahil on LinkedIn or his website, get the book. Spencer, you got a book coming out too, as you mentioned, that's super exciting. If people want to connect with you, is LinkedIn the place to be? Spencer Horn 50:03 - 50:08 It is the LinkedIn and I know that that's where they need to find you as well, right? Christian Napier 50:08 - 50:21 Yep, yep, just look for Christian Napier on LinkedIn. Happy to connect with folks. Wow, well, this has been a fantastic conversation, Sahil. It makes me want to go climb a mountain, which is kind of weird for me, but that's awesome. Christian Napier 50:22 - 50:24 Listeners and viewers, we're grateful for you, too. Saahil Mehta 50:24 - 50:37 Can I give the audience one final nugget? Yes. So it's a very short story. There's a sailor, and he goes to the captain, and he says, Captain, Captain, can I please get my pay? Saahil Mehta 50:37 - 50:50 And the captain says, yeah, sure. Come tomorrow. So that night, the sailor goes to bed, all excited, thinking about how he's going to spend his money. And the next day he goes back to the captain and says, captain, captain, please can I get my pay? Saahil Mehta 50:51 - 51:02 And the captain looks at him and says, hey, didn't I tell you come tomorrow? So folks, tomorrow never comes. You've picked up many golden nuggets. Don't try to do everything. Saahil Mehta 51:02 - 51:05 Just pick one, but implement it today. Christian Napier 51:07 - 51:15 Do it today. That's a great way to cap this conversation off. So Sahil, once again, thank you. We really appreciate it. Christian Napier 51:15 - 51:23 And we are so grateful to our listeners and viewers as well. Thank you for being such a supportive community. We really appreciate it. Please like and subscribe to our podcast. Christian Napier 51:23 - 51:24 We'll catch you again soon.