1 01:00:01,066 --> 01:00:03,033 Hello and welcome. 2 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,966 It's another Monday afternoon, evening, 3 01:00:07,433 --> 01:00:08,333 morning, depending on 4 01:00:08,333 --> 01:00:09,566 where you are listening into. 5 01:00:10,533 --> 01:00:12,633 And we are recording Yves 6 01:00:12,633 --> 01:00:15,766 Just Chatting, Episode 29. 7 01:00:17,133 --> 01:00:18,933 We are going to cover the topic today. 8 01:00:19,933 --> 01:00:22,566 Be respectful with other people's time, 9 01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,066 something which is very 10 01:00:25,066 --> 01:00:27,066 dear to my heart, actually, 11 01:00:28,066 --> 01:00:30,166 and is something which I just had a 12 01:00:30,166 --> 01:00:31,833 discussion on a management 13 01:00:31,833 --> 01:00:34,699 seminar the other week about. 14 01:00:35,433 --> 01:00:40,266 And it's kind of funny that we seem to 15 01:00:40,266 --> 01:00:41,599 actually think that it's 16 01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:42,733 getting more and more the 17 01:00:42,733 --> 01:00:45,066 norm and more and more the accepted 18 01:00:45,066 --> 01:00:48,866 factor, that being late or 19 01:00:48,866 --> 01:00:50,433 showing up late for a meeting, 20 01:00:50,966 --> 01:00:54,266 delivering things late is actually 21 01:00:54,266 --> 01:00:56,033 becoming acceptable or 22 01:00:56,033 --> 01:00:59,133 should be more acceptable from 23 01:00:59,133 --> 01:00:59,833 that perspective. 24 01:01:00,433 --> 01:01:04,366 So let me start off by putting in my, 25 01:01:04,666 --> 01:01:05,733 let's say, two, three, 26 01:01:05,733 --> 01:01:07,266 four, five cents into this 27 01:01:07,266 --> 01:01:07,533 spot. 28 01:01:07,733 --> 01:01:09,500 Imagine you have ten people sitting in a 29 01:01:09,500 --> 01:01:12,199 meeting and a majority of 30 01:01:12,199 --> 01:01:13,466 people show up five minutes 31 01:01:13,533 --> 01:01:13,866 late. 32 01:01:14,866 --> 01:01:17,333 But some people are there in time where I 33 01:01:17,333 --> 01:01:20,366 actually ready to start at time, which is 34 01:01:20,533 --> 01:01:23,033 another very, very interesting factor, 35 01:01:23,266 --> 01:01:24,533 which we see lately even 36 01:01:24,533 --> 01:01:26,233 more is even though people 37 01:01:26,233 --> 01:01:27,699 might show up for a meeting in 38 01:01:27,699 --> 01:01:29,666 time, they might not be ready. 39 01:01:29,866 --> 01:01:31,533 They first actually show up for the 40 01:01:31,533 --> 01:01:32,466 meeting, then say, oh, 41 01:01:32,466 --> 01:01:34,166 I'm going to quickly hit the 42 01:01:34,166 --> 01:01:35,233 restroom, or I'm quickly 43 01:01:35,233 --> 01:01:37,166 going to grab a coffee, or... 44 01:01:38,666 --> 01:01:42,099 So the point is some other people are 45 01:01:42,099 --> 01:01:43,066 actually sitting in the 46 01:01:43,066 --> 01:01:44,666 room, prepared for the meeting, 47 01:01:44,966 --> 01:01:47,366 took the time for it, and actually 48 01:01:47,366 --> 01:01:49,466 prepare and are willing to 49 01:01:49,466 --> 01:01:50,599 actually get the work done. 50 01:01:51,133 --> 01:01:54,633 The challenge is that if everybody is 51 01:01:54,633 --> 01:01:55,866 actually going to be 52 01:01:55,866 --> 01:01:58,666 anticipating to start later, that 53 01:01:58,666 --> 01:02:01,133 is actually why we see more and more in 54 01:02:01,133 --> 01:02:02,766 this corporate world 55 01:02:02,766 --> 01:02:04,166 that meetings get planned 56 01:02:04,166 --> 01:02:06,366 longer and longer and longer because the 57 01:02:06,366 --> 01:02:08,000 expectation by now is that 58 01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,533 for the first five, ten, fifteen 59 01:02:09,833 --> 01:02:11,633 minutes, nothing is going to get done 60 01:02:11,633 --> 01:02:12,933 during any of these meetings. 61 01:02:13,366 --> 01:02:15,000 This is something from my perspective 62 01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,333 which we desperately need to change. 63 01:02:17,733 --> 01:02:20,833 I know that one part why we are having 64 01:02:20,833 --> 01:02:22,666 this issue nowadays is 65 01:02:22,666 --> 01:02:24,466 still something which we 66 01:02:24,466 --> 01:02:26,666 got out of the pandemic because the 67 01:02:26,666 --> 01:02:28,533 pandemic made a massive change. 68 01:02:28,766 --> 01:02:30,333 Before the pandemic, in many business 69 01:02:30,333 --> 01:02:31,666 areas, in-person 70 01:02:31,666 --> 01:02:33,966 meetings were the go-to scenario 71 01:02:34,066 --> 01:02:35,300 to solve most problems. 72 01:02:35,733 --> 01:02:38,166 There was more or less no simple scenario 73 01:02:38,166 --> 01:02:39,166 that you could 74 01:02:39,166 --> 01:02:40,599 actually get away in trying 75 01:02:40,633 --> 01:02:42,266 to do everything 76 01:02:42,266 --> 01:02:46,333 completely over remote sessions. 77 01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:47,866 Pandemic changed that. 78 01:02:48,266 --> 01:02:50,800 The pandemic changed it in a way that 79 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:52,266 people were all of the 80 01:02:52,266 --> 01:02:54,133 sudden perfectly fine with 81 01:02:54,166 --> 01:02:56,733 running Zoom and Teams meetings. 82 01:03:00,900 --> 01:03:04,233 And with having Zoom or Teams meetings, 83 01:03:05,166 --> 01:03:07,366 that is actually was the 84 01:03:07,366 --> 01:03:08,866 point where people started 85 01:03:09,166 --> 01:03:12,333 to actually get into the scenario that 86 01:03:12,333 --> 01:03:14,533 you had to deal with the 87 01:03:14,533 --> 01:03:15,933 fact that you had back-to-back 88 01:03:16,300 --> 01:03:17,633 meetings which caused other problems. 89 01:03:17,833 --> 01:03:20,733 So people were scheduling from 9 a.m. to 90 01:03:20,733 --> 01:03:22,800 5 p.m. back-to-back meetings. 91 01:03:23,066 --> 01:03:25,833 Some people even forgot to cover for 92 01:03:25,833 --> 01:03:28,066 their lunch break or anything else. 93 01:03:28,766 --> 01:03:31,133 And as we are walking through this and as 94 01:03:31,133 --> 01:03:31,933 people were walking 95 01:03:31,933 --> 01:03:32,966 through this, people then 96 01:03:32,966 --> 01:03:35,033 identified as like, yeah, there is an 97 01:03:35,033 --> 01:03:36,133 important meetings which 98 01:03:36,133 --> 01:03:37,933 I should enable in Zoom or 99 01:03:37,933 --> 01:03:40,133 Teams or anything else which blocks off 100 01:03:40,133 --> 01:03:42,099 time before and after each meeting. 101 01:03:43,066 --> 01:03:44,033 And that actually 102 01:03:44,033 --> 01:03:45,466 partially solved the problem. 103 01:03:45,733 --> 01:03:47,366 But in the end, people figured out that 104 01:03:47,366 --> 01:03:48,433 they never got their work 105 01:03:48,433 --> 01:03:49,800 done because they actually 106 01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:51,033 spent too much time 107 01:03:51,033 --> 01:03:54,800 back-to-back in these meetings. 108 01:03:55,366 --> 01:03:57,133 Let me quickly jump onto one of the 109 01:03:57,133 --> 01:03:58,133 questions which we just 110 01:03:58,133 --> 01:04:00,000 reached from the audience. 111 01:04:01,033 --> 01:04:02,366 So first and foremost, why 112 01:04:02,366 --> 01:04:03,866 are there not more participants? 113 01:04:04,966 --> 01:04:06,666 These are live recordings of the podcast. 114 01:04:07,099 --> 01:04:10,133 So it's not primarily targeted towards 115 01:04:10,133 --> 01:04:12,633 being a massive online 116 01:04:12,633 --> 01:04:14,766 seminar or something like 117 01:04:14,766 --> 01:04:15,133 that. 118 01:04:15,133 --> 01:04:16,966 It's just something we 119 01:04:16,966 --> 01:04:18,666 do to make it possible. 120 01:04:19,699 --> 01:04:22,000 From an audience perspective, the Eve 121 01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:23,199 Trust chatting sessions 122 01:04:23,199 --> 01:04:26,166 are typically set up for 123 01:04:26,166 --> 01:04:29,133 a generic audience which is interested in 124 01:04:29,133 --> 01:04:29,733 entrepreneurship, 125 01:04:30,733 --> 01:04:32,733 company management and things 126 01:04:32,733 --> 01:04:33,333 like that. 127 01:04:33,733 --> 01:04:35,733 And it's not necessarily around the 128 01:04:35,733 --> 01:04:36,933 comdivision or 129 01:04:36,933 --> 01:04:38,466 VMware space, but from time to 130 01:04:38,466 --> 01:04:39,666 time we cover that as well. 131 01:04:40,500 --> 01:04:40,699 Okay. 132 01:04:42,500 --> 01:04:44,533 Back to the topic of the day. 133 01:04:44,533 --> 01:04:45,733 So the pandemic actually 134 01:04:45,733 --> 01:04:47,466 makes things worse and worse. 135 01:04:47,733 --> 01:04:49,366 And you had more and more people actually 136 01:04:49,366 --> 01:04:52,433 not show up on time for a meeting because 137 01:04:52,866 --> 01:04:54,166 the last meeting went over. 138 01:04:54,566 --> 01:04:55,833 So actually everything in 139 01:04:55,833 --> 01:04:57,566 the following became a problem. 140 01:04:58,300 --> 01:05:01,766 So what we see more and more is that as 141 01:05:01,766 --> 01:05:03,633 we are actually evolving 142 01:05:03,633 --> 01:05:05,066 out of the time outside 143 01:05:05,066 --> 01:05:08,900 of the pandemic, is that we are actually 144 01:05:08,900 --> 01:05:10,533 moving into a scenario 145 01:05:10,533 --> 01:05:13,500 which finally brings us to 146 01:05:13,500 --> 01:05:16,066 the point that people are showing up late 147 01:05:16,066 --> 01:05:18,300 for in-person meetings. 148 01:05:18,699 --> 01:05:21,633 And also as people are showing up late 149 01:05:21,633 --> 01:05:22,366 for in-person 150 01:05:22,366 --> 01:05:24,099 meetings, we also see delays on 151 01:05:24,099 --> 01:05:25,199 other meetings, et cetera. 152 01:05:25,866 --> 01:05:27,500 So one of the important things moving 153 01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:29,199 forward, especially as we 154 01:05:29,199 --> 01:05:31,133 are trying to fix, let's 155 01:05:31,133 --> 01:05:33,833 say the corporate world, and I see this 156 01:05:33,833 --> 01:05:35,400 happening in more and more 157 01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,866 organizations from the get-go, 158 01:05:38,500 --> 01:05:41,066 is that A, people start planning for more 159 01:05:41,066 --> 01:05:43,300 break times in between meetings, which is 160 01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:44,599 one of the important things. 161 01:05:45,366 --> 01:05:47,666 And then it's actually no longer an 162 01:05:47,666 --> 01:05:48,933 acceptable fact that 163 01:05:48,933 --> 01:05:50,566 you're actually showing up late 164 01:05:51,466 --> 01:05:52,500 for any type of meeting. 165 01:05:52,833 --> 01:05:55,033 So from that perspective, you might 166 01:05:55,033 --> 01:05:56,933 actually show up to a 167 01:05:56,933 --> 01:05:58,766 meeting and it might actually 168 01:05:58,766 --> 01:06:01,033 not be on time or something else. 169 01:06:01,633 --> 01:06:03,300 So what I see more and more people 170 01:06:03,300 --> 01:06:04,533 actually from a meeting 171 01:06:04,533 --> 01:06:06,533 management perspective do now 172 01:06:06,633 --> 01:06:09,733 is that people are actually going to 173 01:06:09,733 --> 01:06:11,566 start getting into a 174 01:06:11,566 --> 01:06:13,733 meeting, the attempt is, and 175 01:06:13,733 --> 01:06:16,199 we actually try to create the rules 176 01:06:16,199 --> 01:06:17,699 within Convivision, for 177 01:06:17,699 --> 01:06:19,000 example, by ourselves as 178 01:06:19,033 --> 01:06:21,266 well, where we try to set it up and 179 01:06:21,266 --> 01:06:22,333 actually say, it's like, 180 01:06:22,666 --> 01:06:23,766 me, you should actually be 181 01:06:23,766 --> 01:06:25,666 in the meeting late just five minutes 182 01:06:25,666 --> 01:06:26,866 before the meeting starts. 183 01:06:27,533 --> 01:06:29,866 You should actually be prepared, ideally 184 01:06:29,866 --> 01:06:31,233 close email, close 185 01:06:31,233 --> 01:06:32,633 teams, as long as you're not 186 01:06:32,633 --> 01:06:34,733 using it for the meeting itself, and 187 01:06:34,733 --> 01:06:35,699 everything else so that 188 01:06:35,699 --> 01:06:37,666 you're focused for the meeting 189 01:06:38,500 --> 01:06:38,866 in person. 190 01:06:39,666 --> 01:06:42,333 And for example, I also in my meeting 191 01:06:42,333 --> 01:06:43,566 room or in my office 192 01:06:43,566 --> 01:06:45,066 actually have a separate chair, 193 01:06:45,500 --> 01:06:46,833 which when I know that I don't 194 01:06:46,833 --> 01:06:49,233 desperately need my computer for the 195 01:06:49,233 --> 01:06:50,099 meetings, I'm actually 196 01:06:50,099 --> 01:06:50,933 going to use them. 197 01:06:51,633 --> 01:06:53,766 So one of the things which we are trying 198 01:06:53,766 --> 01:06:54,833 to establish and which 199 01:06:54,833 --> 01:06:55,866 many other corporations 200 01:06:55,933 --> 01:06:59,133 are nowadays establishing as well is that 201 01:06:59,133 --> 01:07:00,766 meetings again start on 202 01:07:00,766 --> 01:07:02,133 time, which also means 203 01:07:02,333 --> 01:07:04,699 that as you're getting into a meeting, if 204 01:07:04,699 --> 01:07:05,599 you are coming late, 205 01:07:05,599 --> 01:07:06,433 you might have missed 206 01:07:06,433 --> 01:07:07,533 the first few minutes. 207 01:07:08,066 --> 01:07:10,766 So we started that, for example, for our 208 01:07:10,766 --> 01:07:11,966 weekly standup meetings 209 01:07:11,966 --> 01:07:13,933 in comdivision as well, is 210 01:07:14,133 --> 01:07:16,466 that is on Friday, 8 30 a.m. 211 01:07:17,633 --> 01:07:19,800 The meeting starts at 8 30 a.m. 212 01:07:20,233 --> 01:07:22,433 Should people for whatever reason come in 213 01:07:22,433 --> 01:07:25,466 later, their topics are going to be moved 214 01:07:25,500 --> 01:07:26,866 further down the pipeline. 215 01:07:27,233 --> 01:07:29,466 So for example, we go through the list of 216 01:07:29,466 --> 01:07:30,633 projects, typically, 217 01:07:31,033 --> 01:07:32,033 yeah, not necessarily 218 01:07:32,099 --> 01:07:33,433 always in the open meeting order. 219 01:07:34,033 --> 01:07:36,099 But if you're actually going to attend a 220 01:07:36,099 --> 01:07:38,366 meeting and it's and you're 221 01:07:38,366 --> 01:07:39,400 the first one being called 222 01:07:39,433 --> 01:07:42,333 out for that standup item, then in that 223 01:07:42,333 --> 01:07:44,166 specific scenario, I mean, 224 01:07:44,166 --> 01:07:45,433 if you're not there, your 225 01:07:45,433 --> 01:07:47,266 topics are going to be moved further down 226 01:07:47,266 --> 01:07:49,366 to the towards the end so that others who 227 01:07:49,366 --> 01:07:50,866 are there and who are in time can 228 01:07:50,866 --> 01:07:52,599 actually follow along and 229 01:07:52,599 --> 01:07:54,800 actually join for that meeting. 230 01:07:55,533 --> 01:07:57,366 So this actually helped us to 231 01:07:57,366 --> 01:07:59,066 start these meetings on time. 232 01:07:59,066 --> 01:08:03,066 And while up until I think last year, we 233 01:08:03,066 --> 01:08:04,033 had two meetings a 234 01:08:04,033 --> 01:08:05,133 week, we actually were able 235 01:08:05,199 --> 01:08:07,033 to reduce the standups down to one 236 01:08:07,033 --> 01:08:08,666 meeting week so that we 237 01:08:08,666 --> 01:08:10,466 can actually cover more in 238 01:08:10,466 --> 01:08:11,633 one specific meeting. 239 01:08:12,033 --> 01:08:14,333 So exactly a 30 that meeting starts. 240 01:08:14,566 --> 01:08:16,766 And believe it or not, more than half the 241 01:08:16,766 --> 01:08:17,866 people are typically in 242 01:08:17,866 --> 01:08:19,266 the meeting room already. 243 01:08:19,733 --> 01:08:22,633 Before the meeting starts, it's also very 244 01:08:22,633 --> 01:08:23,733 common now that we 245 01:08:23,733 --> 01:08:25,466 have rules in place which 246 01:08:25,466 --> 01:08:27,699 actually say that if you can't actually 247 01:08:27,699 --> 01:08:30,500 cover or if there is a 248 01:08:30,500 --> 01:08:31,733 topic which shouldn't be 249 01:08:31,766 --> 01:08:36,966 part of the meeting, then you should 250 01:08:36,966 --> 01:08:38,533 actually be able to move 251 01:08:38,533 --> 01:08:41,266 that topic to later to the 252 01:08:41,266 --> 01:08:42,000 end of the meeting. 253 01:08:42,766 --> 01:08:46,666 So what's going to happen is the your 254 01:08:46,666 --> 01:08:47,800 meeting actually goes, 255 01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:49,133 let's take our Friday standup 256 01:08:49,133 --> 01:08:49,399 meeting. 257 01:08:49,666 --> 01:08:50,566 All the topics of the 258 01:08:50,566 --> 01:08:51,899 meeting are going to be covered. 259 01:08:52,166 --> 01:08:54,466 If someone, let's say Gerhard or Matthias 260 01:08:54,466 --> 01:08:55,733 is actually covering 261 01:08:55,733 --> 01:08:56,966 something where he says, 262 01:08:57,199 --> 01:08:57,800 oh, I need the 263 01:08:57,800 --> 01:08:58,866 following two or three people. 264 01:08:59,033 --> 01:09:00,666 If you have time, if you could stay at 265 01:09:00,666 --> 01:09:01,566 the end of the meeting, 266 01:09:02,166 --> 01:09:03,733 then we can quickly cover 267 01:09:03,733 --> 01:09:04,633 our topic there. 268 01:09:05,033 --> 01:09:06,800 These things work perfectly well, 269 01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:08,266 especially as nowadays our 270 01:09:08,266 --> 01:09:09,500 standup meeting is shorter 271 01:09:09,566 --> 01:09:10,833 than the planned timeframe. 272 01:09:11,300 --> 01:09:13,399 And so from that perspective, we cover 273 01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:14,766 everything in time, then 274 01:09:14,766 --> 01:09:16,133 people have some off topics 275 01:09:16,133 --> 01:09:17,566 can actually come on them later. 276 01:09:18,100 --> 01:09:21,066 We also integrated in our company 277 01:09:21,066 --> 01:09:23,033 something which is, I 278 01:09:23,033 --> 01:09:24,333 think, a three weekly or four 279 01:09:24,366 --> 01:09:27,166 weekly, like virtual beers evening, which 280 01:09:27,166 --> 01:09:28,000 is something where 281 01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:29,133 people can come together 282 01:09:29,433 --> 01:09:30,899 and just actually talk out 283 01:09:30,899 --> 01:09:32,133 whatever is on their mind. 284 01:09:32,366 --> 01:09:33,899 And it's not nothing work related. 285 01:09:34,166 --> 01:09:35,966 It could be around other topics. 286 01:09:36,166 --> 01:09:39,033 It could be around something going on in 287 01:09:39,033 --> 01:09:40,333 the world or whatever else. 288 01:09:40,933 --> 01:09:43,066 And I think that's great thing as well to 289 01:09:43,066 --> 01:09:44,566 reduce a lot of that 290 01:09:44,566 --> 01:09:46,600 chit chat talk out of 291 01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:48,266 the standard meetings. 292 01:09:49,833 --> 01:09:51,933 So this is something where you can 293 01:09:51,933 --> 01:09:54,533 actually work with corporate meeting 294 01:09:54,533 --> 01:09:55,833 culture and actually 295 01:09:56,066 --> 01:09:58,666 make this a more attractive scenario and 296 01:09:58,666 --> 01:09:59,933 actually get more people 297 01:09:59,933 --> 01:10:03,166 into attending meetings from 298 01:10:03,166 --> 01:10:03,833 that perspective. 299 01:10:04,333 --> 01:10:06,500 I wouldn't go as extreme as, for example, 300 01:10:06,699 --> 01:10:08,633 Amazon does it where every meeting starts 301 01:10:08,833 --> 01:10:12,466 with several minutes of silence so that 302 01:10:12,466 --> 01:10:15,066 people could actually read 303 01:10:15,066 --> 01:10:16,100 through the meeting notes 304 01:10:16,199 --> 01:10:18,733 beforehand because let's be honest, let's 305 01:10:18,733 --> 01:10:21,233 face it in most corporations, even if you 306 01:10:21,233 --> 01:10:23,300 send out a comprehensive document before 307 01:10:23,300 --> 01:10:24,300 the meeting, in many, 308 01:10:24,300 --> 01:10:25,533 many cases, people are not 309 01:10:25,533 --> 01:10:27,066 going to read it up front. 310 01:10:28,266 --> 01:10:31,000 Amazon also bent powerpoints 311 01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,933 out of out of most meetings. 312 01:10:33,433 --> 01:10:35,300 And to be honest, I like 313 01:10:35,300 --> 01:10:36,666 the idea more and more. 314 01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,733 We try to reduce them and get them out of 315 01:10:39,733 --> 01:10:41,266 as many meetings as possible. 316 01:10:41,866 --> 01:10:43,500 But also when we are doing product 317 01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:44,666 demonstrations and stuff 318 01:10:44,666 --> 01:10:47,366 like that, we are utilizing real 319 01:10:47,366 --> 01:10:48,199 life demos. 320 01:10:49,366 --> 01:10:50,399 That is far more 321 01:10:50,399 --> 01:10:52,233 convincing for customers. 322 01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:53,300 It's actually bringing 323 01:10:53,300 --> 01:10:54,666 us faster to the point. 324 01:10:55,133 --> 01:10:56,633 And this is also something which we 325 01:10:56,633 --> 01:10:58,633 utilize as part of our architecture 326 01:10:58,633 --> 01:10:59,800 meetings and architecture 327 01:10:59,899 --> 01:11:02,933 workshops where during these architecture 328 01:11:02,933 --> 01:11:04,433 workshops, we are then 329 01:11:04,433 --> 01:11:05,533 automatically pulling 330 01:11:05,666 --> 01:11:09,433 people in and showcase them how we have 331 01:11:09,433 --> 01:11:10,066 done a reference 332 01:11:10,066 --> 01:11:11,833 implementation and then discuss 333 01:11:11,899 --> 01:11:12,633 around the topic. 334 01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:16,366 As proven to be far more effective from a 335 01:11:16,366 --> 01:11:23,033 people's time scale perspective, that you 336 01:11:23,033 --> 01:11:24,666 could actually attend 337 01:11:24,666 --> 01:11:25,366 from that perspective. 338 01:11:26,466 --> 01:11:29,533 So all of these different topics are 339 01:11:29,533 --> 01:11:32,433 helping corporations to 340 01:11:32,433 --> 01:11:34,933 grow and actually be more 341 01:11:35,133 --> 01:11:36,966 effective during their meetings. 342 01:11:37,766 --> 01:11:39,733 The other thing is from being respectful 343 01:11:39,733 --> 01:11:41,033 with other people's time, 344 01:11:41,033 --> 01:11:43,066 if you are actually asking 345 01:11:43,133 --> 01:11:45,266 for someone else's time, give them a bit 346 01:11:45,266 --> 01:11:46,266 of a heads up of what 347 01:11:46,266 --> 01:11:47,233 you want to talk about. 348 01:11:47,933 --> 01:11:52,233 So something again, which we established 349 01:11:52,233 --> 01:11:54,233 in our cooperation over 350 01:11:54,233 --> 01:11:55,199 the last couple of years 351 01:11:55,399 --> 01:11:56,933 is there is no meeting 352 01:11:56,933 --> 01:11:58,333 without an agenda anymore. 353 01:11:58,333 --> 01:12:00,033 It doesn't need to be a complex agenda. 354 01:12:00,899 --> 01:12:02,166 For example, for me, 355 01:12:02,166 --> 01:12:02,966 it makes a difference. 356 01:12:03,266 --> 01:12:05,500 If someone says, hey, I have a paragraph 357 01:12:05,500 --> 01:12:07,333 and a quote or SOW or 358 01:12:07,333 --> 01:12:09,166 something else, which I 359 01:12:09,166 --> 01:12:14,366 just want to cover, then that might be 360 01:12:14,366 --> 01:12:16,066 something we can cover in five minutes. 361 01:12:16,066 --> 01:12:18,133 If someone says, oh, I'm struggling with 362 01:12:18,133 --> 01:12:19,300 this customer, I need 363 01:12:19,300 --> 01:12:21,366 more help and I need actually 364 01:12:21,366 --> 01:12:24,366 more people to visit this one, then I can 365 01:12:24,366 --> 01:12:25,366 foresee this is going 366 01:12:25,366 --> 01:12:26,366 to be half an hour to 367 01:12:26,366 --> 01:12:26,766 an hour. 368 01:12:27,033 --> 01:12:28,566 So I need a bigger time window to 369 01:12:28,566 --> 01:12:30,000 actually squeeze that in my day. 370 01:12:30,633 --> 01:12:32,899 What I try to avoid and what everybody 371 01:12:32,899 --> 01:12:34,066 else tries to avoid 372 01:12:34,066 --> 01:12:35,833 within convolution as well 373 01:12:35,933 --> 01:12:38,566 is trying to get away of having meetings 374 01:12:38,566 --> 01:12:39,766 with follow up meetings. 375 01:12:40,366 --> 01:12:42,800 Ideally everybody comes to a meeting in a 376 01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,100 prepared way so that 377 01:12:44,100 --> 01:12:45,100 you can actually cover 378 01:12:45,100 --> 01:12:46,633 everything in that meeting and then 379 01:12:46,633 --> 01:12:49,300 actually don't need any 380 01:12:49,300 --> 01:12:50,666 follow up meeting or anything 381 01:12:50,666 --> 01:12:52,766 like that anymore from that perspective. 382 01:12:53,433 --> 01:12:55,733 So again, something to be more helpful 383 01:12:55,733 --> 01:12:56,466 from a timing 384 01:12:56,466 --> 01:12:58,766 perspective and be more respectful 385 01:12:59,166 --> 01:13:00,166 from an overall time. 386 01:13:01,333 --> 01:13:05,300 The other thing which we discussed on the 387 01:13:05,300 --> 01:13:06,666 management training 388 01:13:06,666 --> 01:13:09,133 week or two ago was that 389 01:13:09,133 --> 01:13:12,266 we covered how are we going to deal with 390 01:13:12,266 --> 01:13:14,533 or what is the scenario with? 391 01:13:15,100 --> 01:13:17,533 It's typically called a Gen Z phenomenon. 392 01:13:19,133 --> 01:13:21,133 And I wouldn't actually call it a Gen Z 393 01:13:21,133 --> 01:13:22,833 topic because I see this 394 01:13:22,833 --> 01:13:24,266 very often in corporate 395 01:13:24,433 --> 01:13:25,300 America as well. 396 01:13:25,833 --> 01:13:29,300 So people actually show up to meetings by 397 01:13:29,300 --> 01:13:31,766 intent every five minutes. 398 01:13:35,133 --> 01:13:39,133 And from that specific perspective, it's 399 01:13:39,133 --> 01:13:40,600 perfectly fine that 400 01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:43,399 you can actually cover 401 01:13:43,399 --> 01:13:46,333 that specific topic and then you can 402 01:13:46,333 --> 01:13:48,233 actually start the meeting. 403 01:13:48,666 --> 01:13:50,933 I have seen in corporate America very 404 01:13:50,933 --> 01:13:52,566 often that once we 405 01:13:52,566 --> 01:13:54,300 actually establish this, we start 406 01:13:54,366 --> 01:13:55,266 the meeting on time. 407 01:13:56,866 --> 01:13:58,600 People after the second or third time 408 01:13:58,600 --> 01:13:59,699 will get used to the 409 01:13:59,699 --> 01:14:01,133 fact and actually will show 410 01:14:01,133 --> 01:14:01,933 up in time. 411 01:14:02,533 --> 01:14:04,766 Otherwise, you end up in scenarios again 412 01:14:04,766 --> 01:14:06,166 and again where people 413 01:14:06,166 --> 01:14:08,466 just always show up five 414 01:14:08,466 --> 01:14:09,500 or 10 minutes late. 415 01:14:09,833 --> 01:14:11,466 If you have only a 30 minutes meeting 416 01:14:11,466 --> 01:14:12,466 slot and then people 417 01:14:12,466 --> 01:14:13,466 want to leave five minutes 418 01:14:13,466 --> 01:14:15,933 earlier, that's not going to work from 419 01:14:15,933 --> 01:14:17,566 that perspective either. 420 01:14:18,266 --> 01:14:21,399 So just take the aspect which works for 421 01:14:21,399 --> 01:14:22,433 you, but actually make 422 01:14:22,433 --> 01:14:24,333 clear for people that wait 423 01:14:24,366 --> 01:14:25,033 for meeting time is 424 01:14:25,033 --> 01:14:26,533 actually very unproductive. 425 01:14:27,333 --> 01:14:29,366 I used the scenario in one of the videos 426 01:14:29,366 --> 01:14:31,000 or one of the sessions 427 01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:32,933 which we did a few weeks 428 01:14:32,933 --> 01:14:34,733 ago where I was working 429 01:14:34,733 --> 01:14:36,266 with the larger UK bank. 430 01:14:39,333 --> 01:14:41,500 And during that time, one of the things 431 01:14:41,500 --> 01:14:42,866 which I noticed is any 432 01:14:42,866 --> 01:14:44,666 one of these meeting rooms 433 01:14:45,733 --> 01:14:47,466 had a British pound clock at the wall. 434 01:14:48,100 --> 01:14:51,833 So instead of having a time clock at the 435 01:14:51,833 --> 01:14:54,233 wall, they had huge 436 01:14:54,233 --> 01:14:56,566 LED screens showing what 437 01:14:56,566 --> 01:14:58,733 the meeting was currently costing the 438 01:14:58,733 --> 01:15:00,433 company from that perspective. 439 01:15:00,833 --> 01:15:02,500 So that was actually fitted with 440 01:15:02,500 --> 01:15:03,766 information from the 441 01:15:03,766 --> 01:15:05,566 different salaries, room meetings, 442 01:15:05,766 --> 01:15:06,633 and everything else. 443 01:15:07,166 --> 01:15:09,399 And then you could actually see how much 444 01:15:09,399 --> 01:15:10,766 this was actually going 445 01:15:10,766 --> 01:15:12,233 to cost the company from 446 01:15:12,233 --> 01:15:12,933 that perspective. 447 01:15:13,533 --> 01:15:15,266 And as you were actually running these 448 01:15:15,266 --> 01:15:16,233 meetings, you could see 449 01:15:16,233 --> 01:15:18,000 that it actually became more 450 01:15:18,033 --> 01:15:20,466 and more effective for everybody to 451 01:15:20,466 --> 01:15:23,100 completely attend these meetings and to 452 01:15:23,100 --> 01:15:23,866 join these meetings. 453 01:15:24,133 --> 01:15:26,233 And people tried to actually be done in 454 01:15:26,233 --> 01:15:27,233 time and not actually 455 01:15:27,233 --> 01:15:28,133 make it a coffee break. 456 01:15:28,666 --> 01:15:30,466 The opposite way around, I was working 457 01:15:30,466 --> 01:15:31,333 with a larger public 458 01:15:31,333 --> 01:15:32,899 sector organization in Germany, 459 01:15:33,733 --> 01:15:36,933 and I was trying to figure out why the 460 01:15:36,933 --> 01:15:38,166 hell I was invited into 461 01:15:38,166 --> 01:15:39,566 every meeting, whether 462 01:15:39,566 --> 01:15:41,133 it was relating to me or not. 463 01:15:42,466 --> 01:15:45,000 It took me a while until I figured out 464 01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:46,833 and actually spoke to people as I said. 465 01:15:47,166 --> 01:15:48,433 Why are you inviting me 466 01:15:48,433 --> 01:15:49,399 to all of these meetings? 467 01:15:49,866 --> 01:15:50,533 I'm actually 468 01:15:50,533 --> 01:15:52,000 responsible for that project. 469 01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:53,100 There is not even an overlap. 470 01:15:53,766 --> 01:15:55,433 And at one point, the answer came out 471 01:15:55,433 --> 01:15:56,600 very bluntly from one 472 01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:57,800 of the more junior people 473 01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:02,233 is that no matter what's going to happen 474 01:16:02,233 --> 01:16:03,466 is if there is an 475 01:16:03,466 --> 01:16:04,766 external at a meeting, it will 476 01:16:04,766 --> 01:16:06,199 actually bring coffee and cookies. 477 01:16:06,966 --> 01:16:09,333 So that's the other extreme. 478 01:16:09,333 --> 01:16:11,533 It's like inviting people towards a 479 01:16:11,533 --> 01:16:12,533 meeting just to get a 480 01:16:12,533 --> 01:16:15,466 better room or specific tools 481 01:16:15,733 --> 01:16:17,366 or specific food or whatever 482 01:16:17,366 --> 01:16:19,800 else is also never a good idea. 483 01:16:20,366 --> 01:16:23,333 So from that perspective, just be sure 484 01:16:23,333 --> 01:16:26,033 that you cover really 485 01:16:26,033 --> 01:16:28,600 whatever is necessary and 486 01:16:28,699 --> 01:16:29,933 have only the people 487 01:16:29,933 --> 01:16:31,300 attend which are necessary. 488 01:16:31,933 --> 01:16:34,166 And if corporations think that it's a 489 01:16:34,166 --> 01:16:35,533 good idea to punish people 490 01:16:35,533 --> 01:16:37,033 for not inviting externals 491 01:16:37,033 --> 01:16:38,133 or anything else, 492 01:16:38,533 --> 01:16:41,466 then just do as you like. 493 01:16:41,666 --> 01:16:43,466 But in the end, it's not going to help. 494 01:16:45,333 --> 01:16:47,433 So these are things on how you can 495 01:16:47,433 --> 01:16:48,533 actually improve that. 496 01:16:49,533 --> 01:16:51,033 During the management meeting, one of the 497 01:16:51,033 --> 01:16:52,033 topics was also 498 01:16:52,033 --> 01:16:53,966 management training the other 499 01:16:53,966 --> 01:16:56,166 week, where also one of the arguments was 500 01:16:56,166 --> 01:16:58,833 everybody should actually be more relaxed 501 01:16:59,033 --> 01:17:02,266 in the in the current scenario and 502 01:17:02,266 --> 01:17:05,899 actually allow for people to be late. 503 01:17:05,899 --> 01:17:08,133 And I think that's actually the wrong 504 01:17:08,133 --> 01:17:09,466 scenario and how we could 505 01:17:09,466 --> 01:17:11,033 fix the issues we have in 506 01:17:11,066 --> 01:17:12,366 the corporate world at the moment, 507 01:17:12,966 --> 01:17:14,066 because the issues we 508 01:17:14,066 --> 01:17:15,433 face in the corporate world 509 01:17:15,500 --> 01:17:17,966 is that people no longer take tasks very 510 01:17:17,966 --> 01:17:20,433 serious, that releasing 511 01:17:20,433 --> 01:17:22,600 things or doing things on time 512 01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:23,766 is actually no longer 513 01:17:23,766 --> 01:17:25,866 seen as an advantage. 514 01:17:26,466 --> 01:17:30,733 And there is basically no damage done if 515 01:17:30,733 --> 01:17:31,500 you're not actually 516 01:17:31,500 --> 01:17:33,233 delivering on time, which is 517 01:17:33,233 --> 01:17:36,300 also part of the European or especially 518 01:17:36,300 --> 01:17:38,533 the culture in many 519 01:17:38,533 --> 01:17:40,633 European companies is because 520 01:17:40,766 --> 01:17:42,266 it's no longer easy to 521 01:17:42,266 --> 01:17:44,433 fire someone for not working. 522 01:17:44,966 --> 01:17:45,733 You need to have much 523 01:17:45,733 --> 01:17:47,100 better reasons by now. 524 01:17:48,166 --> 01:17:50,500 It is actually safe to do it as long as 525 01:17:50,500 --> 01:17:51,300 you're not actually 526 01:17:51,300 --> 01:17:53,800 completely misbehaving against 527 01:17:53,866 --> 01:17:55,766 colleagues or the company by itself. 528 01:17:55,766 --> 01:17:58,266 It's very hard to actually fire someone 529 01:17:58,266 --> 01:17:59,933 with this has good parts 530 01:17:59,933 --> 01:18:01,233 and bad parts, but that 531 01:18:01,233 --> 01:18:03,833 leads to some of this cultural scenario. 532 01:18:04,266 --> 01:18:05,866 On the other side, I can also clearly 533 01:18:05,866 --> 01:18:07,366 showcase based out of 534 01:18:07,366 --> 01:18:09,266 corporate America, where it's 535 01:18:09,300 --> 01:18:11,633 much easier to quickly just fire someone 536 01:18:11,633 --> 01:18:14,466 if you want to get rid of them by the end 537 01:18:14,466 --> 01:18:18,733 of the months or whatever else, that that 538 01:18:18,733 --> 01:18:21,633 would actually be an easy solution. 539 01:18:22,066 --> 01:18:24,433 But in the end, the meeting culture and 540 01:18:24,433 --> 01:18:25,266 the time respect for 541 01:18:25,266 --> 01:18:26,899 this in the US is even worse 542 01:18:26,899 --> 01:18:28,333 than we have it here in Europe. 543 01:18:28,766 --> 01:18:31,766 But it's actually something which is 544 01:18:31,766 --> 01:18:33,366 becoming more and more of an issue. 545 01:18:35,899 --> 01:18:38,766 As we are trying to evolve corporations 546 01:18:38,766 --> 01:18:40,266 and as we are talking 547 01:18:40,266 --> 01:18:41,666 and as I'm talking with 548 01:18:41,733 --> 01:18:45,333 startups and help startups actually be 549 01:18:45,333 --> 01:18:46,833 more successful in their 550 01:18:46,833 --> 01:18:48,966 cooperation or with financing 551 01:18:48,966 --> 01:18:51,100 and everything else, I'm always 552 01:18:51,100 --> 01:18:53,266 encouraging them to take a very, very 553 01:18:53,266 --> 01:18:55,066 close look in trying 554 01:18:55,066 --> 01:18:58,266 to understand what Amazon does, what Elon 555 01:18:58,266 --> 01:19:00,000 Musk does at SpaceX, 556 01:19:00,733 --> 01:19:03,166 partially also at Tesla, 557 01:19:03,933 --> 01:19:05,466 but not at Tesla that much anymore. 558 01:19:06,133 --> 01:19:08,466 And he tried to cultivate at Twitter 559 01:19:08,466 --> 01:19:10,366 slash X as well is 560 01:19:10,366 --> 01:19:12,166 trying to cultivate a culture 561 01:19:12,166 --> 01:19:14,566 where if you don't actually have anything 562 01:19:14,566 --> 01:19:17,933 to say or to bring to a meeting, stand up 563 01:19:18,066 --> 01:19:18,633 and leave. 564 01:19:18,866 --> 01:19:20,733 Don't even say goodbye because that's 565 01:19:20,733 --> 01:19:22,166 interrupting everybody else. 566 01:19:23,066 --> 01:19:23,866 I've seen this, 567 01:19:24,199 --> 01:19:25,433 especially in online meetings. 568 01:19:25,899 --> 01:19:27,866 Sometimes you come in and start a meeting 569 01:19:27,866 --> 01:19:29,166 with 20 plus people. 570 01:19:29,833 --> 01:19:31,366 Within five minutes, you're down to three 571 01:19:31,366 --> 01:19:33,199 or four or five, which are the ones based 572 01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:35,366 on the agenda and everything else, which 573 01:19:35,366 --> 01:19:36,433 are really necessary. 574 01:19:37,066 --> 01:19:37,833 And the others can 575 01:19:37,833 --> 01:19:39,133 actually get their work done. 576 01:19:41,833 --> 01:19:44,300 The other important part as we are moving 577 01:19:44,300 --> 01:19:46,666 along is also that if 578 01:19:46,666 --> 01:19:47,699 you're attending a meeting 579 01:19:47,766 --> 01:19:50,000 or if you are actually with other people, 580 01:19:50,533 --> 01:19:51,533 a good part of being 581 01:19:51,533 --> 01:19:52,633 respectful with their 582 01:19:52,633 --> 01:19:55,566 time and their presence is to not 583 01:19:55,566 --> 01:19:56,666 actually play on the 584 01:19:56,666 --> 01:19:58,699 mobile phone or do your emails 585 01:19:59,000 --> 01:19:59,833 or anything else. 586 01:20:01,066 --> 01:20:02,933 So for example, that was one of the 587 01:20:02,933 --> 01:20:04,199 reasons why I said in the 588 01:20:04,199 --> 01:20:05,633 beginning I would actually 589 01:20:05,633 --> 01:20:07,933 close down email clients, team zooms 590 01:20:07,933 --> 01:20:10,399 whatsoever, which I don't necessarily 591 01:20:10,399 --> 01:20:11,733 need during a meeting 592 01:20:11,733 --> 01:20:13,266 to be completely focused 593 01:20:13,266 --> 01:20:15,133 on that specific meetings. 594 01:20:16,033 --> 01:20:18,533 And I actually also started about a few 595 01:20:18,533 --> 01:20:20,133 couple of months back when 596 01:20:20,133 --> 01:20:21,699 I see and have the feeling 597 01:20:21,699 --> 01:20:24,633 that people are absent during the meeting 598 01:20:24,633 --> 01:20:25,233 and I have the 599 01:20:25,233 --> 01:20:26,166 feeling that they are doing 600 01:20:26,166 --> 01:20:28,933 the emails or anything else, then I'm 601 01:20:28,933 --> 01:20:31,133 either going to pause for a few seconds. 602 01:20:31,399 --> 01:20:34,866 That actually gives people the point that 603 01:20:34,866 --> 01:20:36,833 they are actually looking back at you and 604 01:20:37,300 --> 01:20:38,899 it's like, OK, why is he pausing? 605 01:20:39,366 --> 01:20:40,966 And then once you see that everybody is 606 01:20:40,966 --> 01:20:43,500 back on time, you actually start again. 607 01:20:43,966 --> 01:20:46,366 Or if that absolutely doesn't help, then 608 01:20:46,366 --> 01:20:48,800 calling out people for 609 01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:50,600 their behavior or just calling 610 01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:52,466 them out and say, it's like, oh, it seems 611 01:20:52,466 --> 01:20:53,333 like that you have 612 01:20:53,333 --> 01:20:54,100 something more important 613 01:20:54,266 --> 01:20:56,433 to do than attending this meeting, then 614 01:20:56,433 --> 01:20:58,399 maybe you should leave or something else. 615 01:20:58,733 --> 01:21:01,266 That sounds very harsh, but in the end, 616 01:21:01,266 --> 01:21:02,100 it's actually helping 617 01:21:02,100 --> 01:21:03,633 in most corporations and 618 01:21:03,633 --> 01:21:06,866 in most organizations to get people into 619 01:21:06,866 --> 01:21:10,033 a healthy meeting culture. 620 01:21:12,233 --> 01:21:13,566 OK, that being covered. 621 01:21:15,066 --> 01:21:15,966 Thank you, Aya. 622 01:21:16,766 --> 01:21:18,966 Thank you from that perspective, those 623 01:21:18,966 --> 01:21:21,666 who were attending live, everything else. 624 01:21:21,766 --> 01:21:23,666 The session is going to go out via a 625 01:21:23,666 --> 01:21:26,133 podcast and it's going 626 01:21:26,133 --> 01:21:27,433 to be streamed on all the 627 01:21:27,533 --> 01:21:29,466 usual platforms from that perspective. 628 01:21:30,500 --> 01:21:32,699 And that being said, thank you all for 629 01:21:32,699 --> 01:21:34,333 watching and watch out for 630 01:21:34,333 --> 01:21:35,633 the podcast to be released 631 01:21:35,633 --> 01:21:36,766 in the next couple of days. 632 01:21:37,133 --> 01:21:38,533 Thank you and goodbye.