[00:00:00] Dan: Hello and welcome back to we, not me. The podcast where we explore, how humans connect to get stuff done together. I'm Dan Hammond.

[00:00:13] Pia: And I am Pia Lee.

[00:00:15] Dan: You most certainly are. And how the devil are you? Are you a little bit have the water subsided pier, if you'd a bit less damp than last time.

[00:00:23] Pia: Yes, a little, there's definitely a few. I was told by somebody yesterday, I've got Springs appearing in my garden, which I can't quite work out, but there is pooling of water somewhere. And I dunno where it's coming, but been a mammoth community effort, to help people to help the clearing up, get people back on their feet again.

[00:00:44] And I was super impressed by my little local community here in barring bar who are doing a retrospective. So they are asking everybody that was involved in any way during the cleanup and the support to come to the community hall. And they're asking the questions of what worked, what didn't work so well, what would we do better next time in order to prepare ourselves? For an inevitable. So I was so impressed. I am like, I am booked

[00:01:18] in, I was, you know, I am in, I am so heartened, not only by the way the communities come together, but by this thinking, you know, quite often we just think, God, that was awful, and then we get surprised when it comes 

[00:01:29] Dan: Yeah, exactly. The water's gone. Great. That was get, this phrase we kept on hearing through the pandemic back to normal. It's in a way dangerous because you just sort of move on through and then guess what, there's another flood. And we haven't learned it's it's it seems to be that when naturally inclined to do that, but for someone to be able to take that pause and say, no, let's stop and learn, I think that's um, wow, impressive. Can't wait to hear how it goes, Pia. Maybe we'll hear on another episode what the story was, but

[00:01:55] Pia: I will report back.

[00:01:56] Dan: Excellent. Excellent. It's a lovely setup for our guest today, who is talking about community actually he's uh, given much of his life to improving the health of communities through his organizations. So, let's go over here from David now. 

[00:02:13] David a really warm welcome to we. Not me. Thank you so much for being on the show.

[00:02:21] David: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:21] Dan: It's an absolute pleasure. It's absolutely. Now we'll hear a little bit more about you moment, but as we start by torturing our guests with the good old card game. So as you know, I have three packs of cards in front of me, red, tricky, orange. Okay. Green, reasonably easy questions about you and their sort of conversation starter cards, so we're using for that exact purpose. I'm gonna pick a card at random, one of these packs, which one would you like?

[00:02:46] David: Well, I've been known to take the hard road, so I'll go with the red.

[00:02:49] Dan: we'll hear about the hard road a little bit later, I think. Okay. Here is your card. it's a good team on this. This is a good team I should have given feedback, but I didn't.

[00:03:01] David: Yeah, that's a really good question. I think sometimes what you, what is your, what you're strong at is also your Achilles heel, and from experience of managing others, I've sometimes overstay with the empathy part. And and give somebody more chances than they probably deserved where if I'd leaned into more compassion and telling them that, some of the reasons why they weren't performing and give a bit of an action plan that would've been a lot more compassionate to them. And I think would've had better results for everybody. So that was a big learning for me early on in my career.

[00:03:38] Dan: Wow. And overplaying of a strength by the sound of it. Great example. I'm sure many of our listeners are thinking the same thing, so, yeah. Great example. Thank you, David.

[00:03:48] So, let's build on that a little bit that sort of given us a hint of you a little bit along the way, but tell us your story, David where, where, where did you start town and how did you end up here?

[00:03:56] David: Yeah. So obviously this isn't I'm living in Australia, but this is a an English accent. And uh, originally from Lancaster uh, until I was about four years old and then moved over to Germany with my young parents and yeah. Lived there for six years actually. And I suppose that's where I, I really developed a sense of the importance of sport and teams cuz in Germany, I really struggled with being able to connect with, the other children draining was a different language. It was a different environment. But when we played sport, it was really give me that sense of belonging and connection. And I didn't know it at the time, but that social capital has really stayed with me.

[00:04:38] And then we moved back to the UK when I was about 11 and into the Northeast of England. So we called county Durham and yeah, went uni at Middlesborough finished. Finished there with the sports science masters and then lived around the Northeast of England. Worked in football and used to use football to tackle health, crime, and employment and education. So a lot of social inclusion kind of stuff and using sport as a vehicle to, you know, to support others and engage disadvantaged groups. And then my father, unfortunately got sick when I was 26 with with cancer, terminal cancer. And I moved in to look after him for three months and and. We had a, as good as time as we could. And there was no words left unspent said, and, but after he passed away I really struggled being, being young and not having that father figure.

[00:05:28] And it seems like a bit extreme, but when I was 28 moved well immigrated to Australia to start a new life. And and thought I would get into football over here, but the infrastructure's a little bit different and and had to kind of reinvent myself because I wanted to stay with my, with my, my bases, and I ended up in the aquatics and leisure industry. So I swapped football from the UK and into swimming. And this country is a, has a love of water. Lots of beaches, lots of swimming pools. And I've been working in that industry for 13 years and worked across five local authorities and worked in the private sector and then two and a half years ago with my fiance and business partner, co-founded collective leisure which is a social enterprise.

[00:06:13] You know, I was talking about my dad. One of these shirts here is is signed by Wayne Rooney, which he signed to my dad. Yeah. Yeah. When he was a game he actually wore yeah. On his 27th cab. So it was really nice. 

[00:06:26] Pia: Oh, that 

[00:06:27] Dan: Oh, wow. 

[00:06:27] Pia: It's an amazing story, David, because it really charts the power of sport to, and sporting teams to build teamwork. And I guess that's when we think of teamwork, that's that feels much clearer for us sometimes than when we look at other Indus streets or other areas. But tell us, like, from your experience, so this is something deep from within you personally, as well as something that you do professionally, let's get to the nub of it. How do you build really strong teams? What do you see as the ingredients there to make that happen? 

[00:06:59] David: Yeah, it's a deep question. I can only speak from obviously my experiences and everybody will take a different slant on this, but I think fundamentally you have to care about the people around you as humans. We all bring different experiences. We come from different backgrounds, different cultures. When you've had a leader or a manager and they really don't care for you, and it's more of that top down approach, telling you what to do that only gets you so far. I think so if I always distribute right down Pia, I think it's that authenticity and genuineness about caring for others.

[00:07:44] And if you're all working towards something, uh, you know, a common goal and you're looking after each other. I think that's when something really special can happen.

[00:07:52] Pia: I think that's such a good point, David, because putting human beings front and center is what we need to do. And often the desire to get the task done overshadows that and some of our research and Squadify has confirmed that. So it is definitely work in progress, But, know, we see the very best and worst of sporting teams when we watch them. So what have you with, with a real love for sporting teams and, and, and blending that out into the community, we work that you do, what do you see as some of the traits and characteristics that, that could really be valuable in any team? 

[00:08:29] David: Well, I'm saying the worst of sports teams at the moment with my Everton beloved ever not doing too well. So, 

[00:08:37] Pia: I was sad about that. 

[00:08:39] Dan: He had to mention it.

[00:08:40] David: You're a Liverpool fan and I take 

[00:08:42] Pia: That's right. 

[00:08:43] Dan: Yes, indeed.

[00:08:46] David: Yeah. I think we know a sport can give us so much can't it? You know, Teamwork, discipline, hard work, you know, all these things that it can teach us. But if you take a team for example of football, if you will, 11 players, it really is about leveling the plane field. So, you get out onto that football pitch and it doesn't matter where you're from or who you are, you're working towards you playing together as one.

[00:09:11] If there's some individuals and they're not playing together, we see this time again in sport, you won't will not be successful. And the same principles and values of 10 teams are in organizations. If you've got outliers who are working on their own and not part of the whole team, Then I don't think you can be as effective as as you should be.

[00:09:30] Dan: And just picking that up and drilling down into it a bit. David talk, expand a little bit on the challenges you've seen. I mean, where that sort of intent of care and putting humans first is, so valuable and you'd think it would be widely embraced and it wouldn't be hard to build teams, but it is. what, what, What are the challenges you've seen along the way?

[00:09:51] David: Yeah, I think your challenges can be your biggest gifts so that's where the learning is. And if I reflect on that question to some of the teams I've managed, I opened an aquatic center in 2017 after redevelopment in, in one of Australia's more multicultural communities, Auburn, and there was the council built five pools then, and with one of them, there was a modesty ke around it, so that modesty curtain there was to to break down those barriers for certain populations, like, people with disability, the elderly, or women's only sessions, cause there's a high Muslim demographic around there. And three weeks after opening that facility we ended up on a program called Current Affairs, which uh, If you know, Australia, it's quite a sensationalized program.

[00:10:41] Pia: It's not the one you always want to be on. Is it really? 

[00:10:45] Dan: No 

[00:10:45] David: No, PA it's not. 

[00:10:47] Dan: But when you said I was on current affair and I said, do you in a good way? No, not in a good way.

[00:10:53] David: And just for context as I said, there was five pools there and I put a women's only session on for two hours on a Sunday. So, there's lots of other pools to go and swim in, and it was really well and participated. And but the local media picked up the story, the daily Telegraph and said how a, how an Australian it was. And it was going back to the days of apartheid. And then a few days later it was on Current Affair affairs, as I say, and yeah, I was basically getting hit mill from Western Australia calling me you know, not all these terrible kind of words and terminology. And the reason why I wanted to kind of raise that example is is because principles and values, I think are really important within teams, even when you are, being challenged by certain people within teams or the wider community.

[00:11:42] So from that issue I want to talk about another program that we had there, where part of my I suppose approach to managing that facility was to have a demographic of workforce that reflected the local community. So, one, one day I got a knock at my door and from one of my duty managers, they basically run the operations of the facility saying, David, can you come and help us? We've got these young people in the 50 meter pool who are just not listening and of jumping on each other and diving in and I, can't get them to stop. so I walked out onto pool deck and you probably know Steven Corby really well, but one of his kind of mantras was seek first to understand before being understood. And before going in there straight away and saying, we've got these conditions of entry, you can't do this. From a human point of view, I asked where they were from and a little bit about them. And they were from Syria, Afghanistan in Iraq explained that, we've got certain rules and said, but if you were interested in a job, come and see me afterwards.

[00:12:40] And uh, From that we were able to appoint 10 refugees working at the facility and they really took the culture of the facility, which was struggling at the time, cuz I had a really young work for us from here to, to, to here. And uh, yeah, it was, it was on SPS world news. And but that was a process in itself, again, because some of the other Australian employees were saying, why are you giving these jobs to those people? So, yeah. Principles and values, I think, is really important within teams.

[00:13:08] Pia: So that an amazing example of that inclusive leadership. And and as you say that asking, seek to understand. And then really being able to turn a situation around, which is opposite to, being divisive or authoritarian or power, which of course we never see any of that type of leadership at all around us in the world that exists today.

[00:13:28] So how do you try and create that culture across the teams that you've got?

[00:13:33] David: Yeah, I think from the experiences that I've had I'm, I've taken that and, I've tried to bottle it up Pia into the work that we do with Collective Leisure as a social enterprise. And we go back to the values um, and we have. Our values are called drive values and they're around distributed leadership where we take responsibility initiative at all levels.

[00:13:56] It's relationships where we build connection of trust and partnerships, inclusion, as you mentioned, and where we foster diversity and collaboration. The VA is for vulnerability, where we demonstrate courage and authenticity and the empathy bit where I said I overstayed earlier on in my career. Um, we, we try and lead with that lead with empathy and compassion with that as well. So, the distributed leadership is, is the really is a really important part of that. And because I think. You know, human beings have got wonderful potential, but you just have to be open to possibilities. And I think that example in the, at Auburn, I was open to the possibilities of what that these young people could provide. But I think showing that care and support within teams and a really supportive culture, I think culture is so important.

[00:14:45] Dan: David that, I mean, you've talked a lot about your organization, the teams within it. You clearly have a. It sounds like your mission is all about the community, even the name of the even the name of the organization implies this. Talk about how just zoom out a little bit. Could you and talk about how you go out to connect to the community and how you bring people together in that, in that broader space.

[00:15:08] David: Yeah. So I suppose our why is to reduce physical inactivity and improve population health. So that's quite big picture. And while doing that, we provide access and training an employment to people from marginalized communities through what you call Wise. So that is a work integration social enterprise.

[00:15:29] And our purpose is wellbeing without boundaries. So it doesn't matter who you are, where you're from. We believe you have the right to be a wellbeing. And our, And our work typically is focused, done education services, and opportunities for those most in need. And when you talk about zooming out that's where we look to do it through a systems approach. So we co-create programs that work with, and I use that word really intently with not for, with communities through that systems approach. So we're just trying to work from the organization to the community, to the system that we're in, which is always moving. And as we know, politically environmentally, there's a lot of things changing all the time, so.

[00:16:14] And within the system, there's education, disability, academia, government, the third sector, the private sector. We're trying to work within that to, to come back to that why of reducing physical activity and improving population health, because we've got as, huge issues around health inequality. Not only in Australia, but obviously in England as well. 

[00:16:37] So I suppose one project that springs to mind is a affordability. That we run in Western Sydney, it's a weekly club and it's open to children and young people between the ages of five and 18. And it doesn't matter what your ability is or disability, whether that's intellectual, sensory um, or physical we provide multisport and wellbeing programs. So it's about improving physical literacy and having fun and social.

[00:17:08] I'll be honest with you. I sometimes when I'm driving now, I think what are we gonna, what's gonna come up today because it's so diverse with the different abilities, but I always come away from that, just feeling the most full and, so grateful it's just, it's amazing.

[00:17:24] I suppose the kick with that is our coaches are from a refugee background. So, again, from Syria or Iraq and these coaches, they had no experience in delivering sports before, before that Just a real appetite and will to support others, and these, some of these refugees are from water countries. You think about trauma, they had it. And just giving them that opportunity and the care and support to see them flourish is amazing. And it's just that true inclusion. Then we are delivering. Thing programs to, to marginalized communities, but we're doing it with cultures from marginalized communities. So it's it's great to watch watch actually. 

[00:18:05] Dan: it's a really inspiring story, David. I'm sure. I'm sure there are team leaders and team members listening to this and thinking, wow. I thought I had diversity in my team or the who I'm working with. And that is on another level.

[00:18:19] What sort of things come out of that level of inclusiveness though? David? What, what do you see? It's easy so you just to see that as something that's challenging, but what do you see coming out of the, of that inclusive of that diversity of of the number of people of the people around you?

[00:18:36] David: So. a good example of that is, you sometimes never know what's gonna come out of it. The I, I feel that everybody starts with a positive intention, but I think the example I will give is we've got young one, one young boy called Thomas who would not get involved for the first three weeks, you know, uh, autistic and um, just would not get off the side bench.

[00:19:00] We've got another boy who um, Zade, who cerebral palsy, nonverbal in a wheelchair. And the way we got Thomas involved was to help with Zade pushing him around the sports hall. Now it's an absolute love story. These two soon as they walk into the sports hall, they're hugging each other. And that level of empathy that Thomas shored, his grandparents said he's have never, they've never seen that before. And, to put these two Children together with such diverse disabilities. Again, it really, I suppose, hits home around what inclusion is. Cause sometimes I think we can put, people with disability in one area, people who are able bodied in another, but when we're really looking at integrating diverse teams I think, really special things can evolve.

[00:19:47] Pia: And you, you touch on, I think the heart of humanity is, you know, we, we all like to feel included and we all like to feel part of something. And yet we are in danger of brainwashing ourselves that, you know, particularly in corporates or business, we have to divorce these strong personal connections and this being part of something, because it's all about getting the task done.

[00:20:10] But I think. You know, Your stories are illustrating just how important that is. Let's just push that aside. It's a basic fundamental need and there's nothing like kids really to actually probably teach that to us.

[00:20:23] David: Yeah, that connection. We're all striving forward. Aren't we're we're human beings, not human doings as they say. And you know, I think, again, it comes down to care. And I know I keep going on about that and the work that we do with a, if we zoom out a little bit within community, that that's a program delivering on the ground, but when we're working with different organizations and different sectors within the system, the approach that we take at Collective Leisure is to look at a network of cares. So really understanding what the motives and what the, what, why is of the, of different organizations and sectors. So we can bring all that together.

[00:21:02] And sometimes the tension in the conversation is where the, a case, and being able to hold, hold that space. It's not easy, it's uncomfortable. But we do all have a different lens, but if we can come together with a common goal and for us, that's reducing physical inactivity which is the fourth biggest killer in the world. And you look at chronic disease. One in two's got a chronic disease of obesity, of mental health, of heart disease, and physical activity it could be can, is such a great tool to try and reduce some of these um, wicked problems of our time.

[00:21:38] Dan: I believe that sport is not just something you help others to do, but that you have a sporting challenge of your own coming up. Do you want to share a little bit of that with us?

[00:21:48] David: Sure. And it's interesting when you talk about teams, cuz for me, teams can be two people and and I'm on uh, a wonderful journey with a man called Tim Green who's actually inspiring me uh, weekly. Tim is legally blind and he went blind about 25 years ago. And um, he and I are on a mission to complete an Ironman in June, cairns Ironman. And I've been fortunate to do a, I've done five in my lifetime, but this one is extra special because we'll be on a tandem bike for the ride and Amy's guide and pilot. And for the swim and the run will be attached. So we'll be in close proximity for quite a long time. 

[00:22:34] Pia: And know each other pretty well. 

[00:22:35] David: yes. So, and he's on the back of my bike and. Yeah, so we will know each other very well. And we've been training for the past seven months towards this goal. And the reason he wants to do it is is really an incredible reason is because Tim's got Stargardt's disease which affects the central vision in your eyes. And unfortunately, son Herto um, has been diagnosed with the same disease and he's 10 um, was a fantastic, and is a fantastic tennis player, but started to miss tennis balls. And yeah, they realize he's got Stargardt's disease. So he wants to show him what's possible and complete in an Ironman 

[00:23:11] Pia: Oh, what an amazing example. and I mean, that, that will be that would be, be an emotional finishing line. I would imagine for both of you when you complete that huge journey. 

[00:23:22] David: And can I just add to that as well, Pia that the beauty in this project is that he's the way one who's teaching me. So he's, he's legally blind, but he was, he did do triathlons 25 years ago. So when he's swimming behind me, he's telling me, you're not lifting your legs or when he, when we're cycling together, I'm not spinning my legs enough. So I, he's the one with a disability, but he's the one who's coaching me.

[00:23:46] Dan: It's a fabulous story to end on David. And uh, you you've really actually taken us to the warm heart of We Not Me today the human beings that we all have around us and we, and we work with and uh, cooperate with and collaborate with and the care that they all need.

[00:24:03] So thank you so much for uh, for joining us today, David and sharing your amazing story with us.

[00:24:09] David: Pleasure and yeah. Congrats to, for everything that you do with the We Not Me podcast. It's fantastic. 

[00:24:14] Pia: Thank you.

[00:24:15] 

[00:24:19] Dan: the thing that really stood out for me, from what David was saying was that piece when I asked him about challenges and he actually just flipped it completely on his head and said, the challenges is where basically where the good stuff comes from. And I thought I've been thinking about that a fair bit, actually what he said, which is wow, instead of just constantly saying I've got a challenge, I've got a challenge, actually. I think David's mindset seems to be yeah I've chosen to live in a world of challenge. This is all good. And actually it's from that, that I'm gonna get the goodness. And that was incredibly inspiring, constantly referred to purpose of values to keep himself strong in that way. I I thought that was that's been entertaining my mind um, since he said it.

[00:25:00] Pia: Because sometimes when you're faced with challenges it shuts the mind down. And when he cited that ex that, that example of when he walked over to a group of swimmers, to better understand them. And to seek, to understand it's a conscious choice point and that's walking the talk, and he actually was present enough and cared enough and was, was walking his own values that he actually turned that challenge into a great opportunity and um, looked at it as a way to be able to bring them on board and provide employment. You could see that. 

[00:25:37] Dan: Yeah, it really impressive. And I mean, completely against the normal ethos of a swimming pool. Remember all those signs when we were being raised in the UK, which had a big sign of things you can't do, including petting by the way, that's not an option. But you know what you do when you see someone messing about yeah. Both. When you see someone at super you blow your whistle and shout at them. Yeah. So the exact opposite of that, you know, someone instead of the whistle, they come with seek first to understand it's quite yeah

[00:26:05] Pia: I was a lifeguard in my earlier life and I did not see to understand. I blew the whistle, so I've got lots to learn. 

[00:26:14] Dan: Excellent. Excellent. I'm sure all of our listeners will be really inspired by that. And I think for any role, we don't have to be working in communities quite as directly as David, but there's some, there's something there for all of us, I think.

[00:26:24] Which is yeah, quite inspiring. So, Pia, who have we got next week? Who's gonna take us on our, on the next, next step of our journey.

[00:26:31] Pia: So this is um, this is our last guest of this season. I can't believe it. We sort of raced through galloped through and and here we are. And we are going to be talking to, sunni Lobo, who is the CPO of Marqueta and her experience. She's been a as a CPO owner for a number of years and her experience about what the trends are really want to ask her what she's seeing based in the us, but an international organisation, loads of experience. What's she's seeing for teams in the next six to 12 months?

[00:27:08] Dan: She's never dull and uh, incredibly informed. And yeah, she'll bring us the voice from Silicon Valley. I think. Uh, can't wait to see SUNY next week.

[00:27:16] But that's it for this episode, you can find show notes and resources at Squadify.net. Just click on the We Not Me podcast link. If you've enjoyed the show, please do share the love and recommended it to your friends. And as a special favor, please give us a rating on your favorite podcast platform. We Not Me is produced by Mark Steadman of Origin. Thank you so much for listening. It's goodbye from me.

[00:27:40] Pia: And it's goodbye for me.