WEBVTT 00:00:00.339 --> 00:00:04.270 Jon Cheek: If you get thirty, forty, fifty listeners to a podcast that you've just launched, that's really good. 00:00:04.330 --> 00:00:08.360 Like give yourself a pat on the back rather than just trying to be the hundreds of thousands of persons right away. 00:00:08.360 --> 00:00:13.870 And going back to my pedals and podium, just keep on the pedals because it will come, but it won't come straight away. 00:00:18.830 --> 00:00:23.750 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:27.714 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcast Company. 00:00:27.754 --> 00:00:30.384 We help university podcasters level up. 00:00:30.765 --> 00:00:34.695 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee, founder of JPod Creations, podcasting is broadcasting. 00:00:35.665 --> 00:00:37.585 And we want you to know you're not alone. 00:00:37.885 --> 00:00:41.934 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there and we can all learn from each other. 00:00:42.134 --> 00:00:43.634 Neil McPhedran: That is right, Jen. 00:00:43.635 --> 00:00:51.605 And as we say, please check out the Higher Ed Pods, Higher Education Podcaster Community. 00:00:51.620 --> 00:00:52.339 Sign up. 00:00:52.360 --> 00:01:07.029 We are over a thousand university podcasts in there now, which is an incredible repository, directory of university higher education podcasts and growing, we've got a lot of really interesting stuff. 00:01:07.049 --> 00:01:19.180 And we talked about it last episode and I'm just going to talk about it again, haven't zeroed in on the actual date yet, but we've got this upcoming thing we're planning, the higher education podcast conference. 00:01:20.260 --> 00:01:24.380 I think we're going to call it the Higher Ed PodCon. 00:01:24.500 --> 00:01:28.549 Chicago, second week of July is where we're aiming. 00:01:28.549 --> 00:01:32.740 So hopefully this week we lock down our venue. 00:01:32.839 --> 00:01:35.960 Email us if you're interested in participating. 00:01:36.059 --> 00:01:52.405 It's for anyone interested in learning about or working in and around the higher education podcast space, even if you're listening to this for the first time and you're just starting your journey, it would be a perfect place to come and meet other higher ed podcasters. 00:01:52.414 --> 00:01:54.164 Really at the heart of it that's what we're hoping to do. 00:01:54.164 --> 00:01:59.715 So hopefully next episode, I'll be able to zero in on some specifics here, but we're super excited about it. 00:01:59.755 --> 00:02:04.225 And hopefully we can see some of you in person in Chicago in July. 00:02:04.420 --> 00:02:10.470 Jennifer-Lee: Love it because that's the one thing, and I know we mentioned before, is when we go to other conferences, there's just such a small cohort of us. 00:02:10.540 --> 00:02:13.920 And we're like, we want to be with other university podcasters. 00:02:13.979 --> 00:02:22.130 Neil McPhedran: Okay, so Jen, this episode, we are chatting with Jon Cheek from the Uni Taster Days. 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:26.470 And Jon is from jolly old England. 00:02:26.770 --> 00:02:28.730 And has a great accent. 00:02:28.760 --> 00:02:31.800 So that's always good to chat with someone from Britain. 00:02:31.950 --> 00:02:35.750 They always feel like they're a little bit more sophisticated than us just because of their accent. 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:44.405 But Jon's from Uni Taster Days and he is the host and founder, I guess, as well, of the Uni Guide podcast. 00:02:44.405 --> 00:02:45.405 Jennifer-Lee: He's got a great voice. 00:02:45.425 --> 00:02:49.495 And I think he probably has the best last name of somebody that we've interviewed so far. 00:02:49.495 --> 00:03:06.555 And I think his idea, not just for the podcast, but Uni Taster Days, which is a guide that happened before the podcast of how to get into different educational institutions across Britain, I think was super smart. 00:03:07.105 --> 00:03:08.335 Neil McPhedran: So far, just the UK. 00:03:08.395 --> 00:03:08.685 Yep. 00:03:08.745 --> 00:03:10.144 Jennifer-Lee: Something we could really do here. 00:03:10.145 --> 00:03:12.585 And we really haven't stumbled upon it yet. 00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:13.590 What a great resource. 00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:14.710 So let's get into it. 00:03:15.810 --> 00:03:16.380 Neil McPhedran: Welcome John. 00:03:16.390 --> 00:03:18.930 Great to have you here on the Continuing Studies podcast. 00:03:19.260 --> 00:03:19.600 Jon Cheek: Lovely. 00:03:19.630 --> 00:03:20.579 Thanks very much for inviting me. 00:03:20.579 --> 00:03:22.289 I'm really looking forward to this chat with you. 00:03:22.320 --> 00:03:26.610 And we were saying just before we started recording that I'm usually in kind of the seat that you're in asking the questions. 00:03:26.619 --> 00:03:29.600 So I'm really looking forward to seeing what it's like on the other side today. 00:03:29.900 --> 00:03:31.190 Jennifer-Lee: You're in the hot seat today. 00:03:31.190 --> 00:03:38.300 I'm really excited to have you on because you're from England and we don't really get that many other podcasts outside of North America. 00:03:38.310 --> 00:03:43.430 So we're really excited to talk to somebody that isn't Canadian or US. 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.399 Neil McPhedran: But our goal in 2025, Jen, right, is to reach further beyond North America. 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.720 Jennifer-Lee: Get out of our backyard. 00:03:52.110 --> 00:03:53.140 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, so welcome. 00:03:53.180 --> 00:03:54.330 It's great to have you here. 00:03:54.330 --> 00:03:58.690 So, Jon, why don't we just start with what is Uni Taster Days? 00:03:58.710 --> 00:04:02.230 What a unique name and it's super unique endeavor that you have there. 00:04:02.259 --> 00:04:02.870 Jon Cheek: Yeah, thank you. 00:04:02.870 --> 00:04:09.370 So, basically Uni Taster Days, we, in the main, we're an event site for students and schools to find university events. 00:04:09.595 --> 00:04:16.995 But basically, I used to work a long time ago at a university and part of my job was to go into schools and deliver events for schools, but there was never a place to find them. 00:04:16.995 --> 00:04:19.575 So schools never had a place where they could find all these events. 00:04:19.584 --> 00:04:22.225 Like universities went directly to schools, schools went directly to universities. 00:04:22.645 --> 00:04:27.805 And I kind of had the idea of Uni Taster Days as being that middle ground between schools and universities. 00:04:27.805 --> 00:04:31.265 So 2012, I set that up as a website. 00:04:31.345 --> 00:04:37.715 And then since then, we've kind of been building lots of resources for schools, including the podcast, which we're going to talk about today. 00:04:37.715 --> 00:04:44.779 And ultimately, what we do is make things better for students when it comes to university, more information so they can make better decisions in the future. 00:04:45.280 --> 00:04:49.850 Jennifer-Lee: And can you just tell us what university you're part of, for people that might not know? 00:04:49.910 --> 00:04:52.120 Jon Cheek: I've previously, I've worked at, how many now? 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:55.360 So I've worked previously at three universities, but now I'm completely independent. 00:04:55.360 --> 00:05:00.679 So we work with lots of, we've got over a hundred universities that are members, but we are completely kind of the middle ground. 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:07.574 The beauty of us being that independent middle ground person or company, is that we can be completely impartial. 00:05:07.574 --> 00:05:11.930 We can talk about university without kind of saying come to this one or come to that one. 00:05:11.930 --> 00:05:15.944 Neil McPhedran: So is this for UK students, if I have that correct? 00:05:15.944 --> 00:05:21.674 And is it more for UK universities or is it also UK students that are interested in going abroad as well? 00:05:21.829 --> 00:05:27.569 Jon Cheek: Yeah, at the moment we're very much focused on the UK, so we work with universities in the UK, students in the UK. 00:05:27.629 --> 00:05:40.049 In time, you know, hopefully in the years ahead we might be, perhaps this is our first step in order to being international in terms of the podcast, but we haven't yet nailed the UK, we're getting close, but we, you know, there's still some, there's a few universities that aren't members. 00:05:40.359 --> 00:05:42.819 We're really keen to make the members, um, and likewise. 00:05:42.829 --> 00:05:49.909 You know, Uni Tasters were founded in 2012, so we've had a long time to build stuff with schools, but there will be still some schools that don't know enough about us. 00:05:49.909 --> 00:05:54.219 And we're keen to nail this market and see what we can do to help others. 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:57.479 Jennifer-Lee: So Uni Taster Days, it's its own entity. 00:05:57.479 --> 00:05:59.559 And then you guys have the podcast that relates to that? 00:05:59.599 --> 00:06:00.449 Jon Cheek: Yeah, exactly. 00:06:00.449 --> 00:06:03.279 So we're a website that has lots of resources. 00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:05.789 And one of the resources we've got on the website is the podcast. 00:06:05.790 --> 00:06:12.029 And we've got guides for students to find videos and, we offer this portal where students can find incentives to attend events and things. 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:22.254 The podcast is literally been launched back in 2022 to provide students with loads of information so they can go on to make really good decisions. 00:06:22.710 --> 00:06:27.654 And we have lots of different guests and ultimately it's really to help students to make great decisions in the future. 00:06:27.664 --> 00:06:29.964 And that's the main part of what we do and why we do it. 00:06:30.234 --> 00:06:30.684 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:06:30.704 --> 00:06:34.844 And the podcast is called Uni Guide podcast, which is an excellent name. 00:06:34.934 --> 00:06:35.794 Jennifer-Lee: Great SEO. 00:06:36.034 --> 00:06:39.964 Neil McPhedran: And so the target audience for the podcast is students and parents. 00:06:39.974 --> 00:06:40.584 Is that right? 00:06:40.604 --> 00:06:42.884 Jon Cheek: Yeah, it's a funny story in terms of the audience. 00:06:42.884 --> 00:06:48.019 And one funny story that, that I bet others can relate to is kind of the journey to where we got to this point. 00:06:48.029 --> 00:06:52.459 So now the podcast is for students considering university. 00:06:52.459 --> 00:06:57.929 So in terms of listeners, that's exactly who again, we're marking ourselves to support, but that's not how it started. 00:06:57.929 --> 00:07:03.619 So how it started was a podcast for parents and also staff that work in schools. 00:07:03.749 --> 00:07:13.389 Because we thought to ourselves, you know, I was chanting to my colleague, Tim, who produces the podcast, and there's not enough information out there for parents when it comes to Uni, but also those working in schools. 00:07:13.479 --> 00:07:18.269 So we thought what we could do is launch a podcast because there's so many millions of people listen to podcasts. 00:07:18.299 --> 00:07:22.599 And we thought parents listen to podcasts, school colleagues, you know, adults will be listening to podcasts. 00:07:22.599 --> 00:07:25.269 And it's a nice way of reaching that audience. 00:07:25.714 --> 00:07:28.864 So we launched the podcast for parents and teachers in the first instance. 00:07:28.914 --> 00:07:32.824 And for the first four or five episodes, they were the audience that we were supporting. 00:07:32.874 --> 00:07:36.434 But so many contacted us to say, the podcast is brilliant. 00:07:36.454 --> 00:07:40.834 We're going to pass it on to our son, daughter, considering university. 00:07:40.864 --> 00:07:41.704 And it kept on happening. 00:07:41.704 --> 00:07:43.834 And we were like, we got to a stage where we thought, you know what? 00:07:44.464 --> 00:07:50.444 Rather than, you know, be the podcast that is supporting everyone and potentially then targeting guests is challenging. 00:07:50.504 --> 00:07:52.144 Maybe we should just support students. 00:07:52.544 --> 00:07:56.064 And there's a lot more students considering university than there is, you know, staff in school. 00:07:56.094 --> 00:08:05.394 So, you then, kind of targeting a bigger market, but we're very much student led now in terms of guests on the podcast, but in terms of who we're kind of attracting as listeners, but it's not how it started. 00:08:05.424 --> 00:08:15.714 And actually one thing for the listeners that you can take from us is that we didn't ever fight up to about three, four episodes in think that this podcast will be driven towards students, supporting students considering Uni. 00:08:15.864 --> 00:08:16.714 In the end, it has been. 00:08:16.714 --> 00:08:27.514 So if you are thinking about the future, the audience is a massive part of it, but for us, we had that situation where we completely changed audience by about five episodes in. 00:08:27.534 --> 00:08:36.164 And the beauty of that, I suppose, is by doing it early, it meant that, you know, we're not in the situation where we've been spending two, three years on a podcast and then we're going to change, change angle. 00:08:36.354 --> 00:08:36.464 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:08:36.534 --> 00:08:38.314 I love a good podcast pivot story. 00:08:40.089 --> 00:08:40.899 Jennifer-Lee: They're always pivoting. 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:42.339 We haven't pivoted this one yet. 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:46.569 Neil McPhedran: Well, we started so niche we would have to just do a whole new podcast then. 00:08:47.499 --> 00:08:49.129 Jennifer-Lee: Like, pivot into finance? 00:08:49.129 --> 00:08:50.539 I don't think that would work with you and I. 00:08:50.609 --> 00:09:05.789 But this is just interesting to me because usually Neil and I interview universities or colleges that have podcasts either in the recruiting department or on specific topics like science or arts or law. 00:09:06.139 --> 00:09:17.019 But this is neat because you guys are resources for students for many different post secondary education institutes throughout the UK, you're not just one thing. 00:09:17.019 --> 00:09:18.149 And so this is something new. 00:09:18.149 --> 00:09:22.779 It's kind of like you're creating a mini network on your own, but with one podcast. 00:09:23.109 --> 00:09:25.799 Jon Cheek: Yes, it's interesting, actually, that you mentioned that, Jen. 00:09:25.819 --> 00:09:29.859 So the funny thing about this podcast is that it's the one thing that I'm asked more about. 00:09:29.859 --> 00:09:34.719 You know, the podcast for Uni Taster Days is a big part of what we do, but not the biggest part. 00:09:35.064 --> 00:09:38.174 But it's, it's probably the thing that I'm asked about more from people. 00:09:38.434 --> 00:09:47.144 Like I could, you know, I get asked to deliver events and talk about podcasts and a lot of the time, you know, people that I know will contact me and say, can you speak to a colleague about the podcast? 00:09:47.144 --> 00:09:50.484 And it's funny that so many people are interested in them. 00:09:50.594 --> 00:09:57.854 The advantage that I suppose Uni Taster Days has got with this podcast in comparison to a Uni that has their own podcast is our reach is far greater. 00:09:57.904 --> 00:10:05.404 Because for university, they, they might have one that's for their current students, or they might have one for prospective students that are thinking about going to that Uni. 00:10:05.414 --> 00:10:10.409 Whereas, for us, we can produce a podcast that is for everyone, um, interested in Uni. 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:13.459 And I'm not, you know, by any means a podcast expert. 00:10:13.459 --> 00:10:14.115 You guys are. 00:10:14.115 --> 00:10:20.680 But the, thing that surprised me actually is in the UK, there wasn't really a big podcast that helps everyone considering Uni. 00:10:20.710 --> 00:10:24.840 Like a lot of universities have got their own, but there was never kind of the Uni Guide version. 00:10:25.110 --> 00:10:27.830 Yeah, we just, I just thought there was a lot of potential there to create something. 00:10:27.830 --> 00:10:33.390 And it's certainly the one area in the last two years that I've grown, developed more than anything. 00:10:33.510 --> 00:10:34.305 And I love it. 00:10:34.365 --> 00:10:44.665 If I said to myself three years ago, four years ago, I'd be involved in a podcast and talking about podcasts a lot and having conversations like this on your podcast, I'd have said no chance, but fast forward and yeah, really, really enjoy it. 00:10:44.775 --> 00:10:49.785 Neil McPhedran: It amazes me that we've been at this for, I guess we're coming into our third year now. 00:10:49.845 --> 00:10:58.095 How often we hear the folks that we interview say how much they love their podcast and being part of it and the people they talk to. 00:10:58.095 --> 00:11:05.765 And as Jen said, we cover from alumni to academics that are really niche into their subject matter or whatever. 00:11:05.765 --> 00:11:10.785 But that is something that we hear often, just about how enjoyable it is. 00:11:10.795 --> 00:11:19.015 For me, and Jen, you'll probably agree, one of the things I've loved the most about our podcast is the people that we've met and the conversations we have. 00:11:19.085 --> 00:11:27.955 It's an interesting medium that allows us to dig into something and to really get to know the reason behind the podcast and so on and so forth. 00:11:27.965 --> 00:11:31.325 And I don't think in other ways we would have that opportunity. 00:11:31.535 --> 00:11:32.795 Jon Cheek: Yeah, completely agree. 00:11:32.795 --> 00:11:35.435 And, and I kind of live by being curious. 00:11:35.435 --> 00:11:43.435 I think, you know, the podcast gives you the opportunity to be curious and speak to really interesting people and learn stuff like every, you learn from every single person that you speak to. 00:11:43.725 --> 00:11:49.745 Podcasts provide that opportunity, whether it's listening to other people's, I like listening to lots of podcasts and I listened to yours the latest episode in advance of this. 00:11:50.175 --> 00:11:52.725 It's such a nice way to kind of learn. 00:11:52.915 --> 00:11:56.745 And there's some podcast episodes, of the podcasts I listen to and listen to several. 00:11:56.745 --> 00:12:00.765 There's lots of episodes that sometimes you start listening to and you think, you know what, the guest isn't perhaps for me. 00:12:00.845 --> 00:12:04.268 And naturally there might be a few people that listen to me and they think, ah, nah, not the guest for me. 00:12:04.290 --> 00:12:04.954 And that's absolutely fine. 00:12:04.955 --> 00:12:10.495 But it gives you that option to kind of give people a bit of time and find out if you can learn or if you enjoy kind of the stuff they're saying. 00:12:10.575 --> 00:12:12.475 I'm a big kind of advocate of podcasts. 00:12:12.605 --> 00:12:16.245 The only thing just to add on that, I want to stay super positive about podcasts. 00:12:16.245 --> 00:12:25.635 But, one thing that I always say to people that speak to me about having their own podcast, is not to underestimate the work that you need to put in to do it well. 00:12:25.725 --> 00:12:32.545 Like there's, some people speak to me and say that, we want to do a podcast and we're going to record it on a Tuesday evening and it's going to take an hour and then we're going to put it out. 00:12:32.545 --> 00:12:38.385 And I always kind of stress them that if you're going to do it well, it needs so much more than that. 00:12:38.425 --> 00:12:45.085 You need to know, like we did with this one, have pre chats with guests and talk about their own experience so you can ask really good questions. 00:12:45.085 --> 00:12:46.545 You then need to edit it really well. 00:12:46.545 --> 00:12:50.165 And it's not something that you can just do really quickly and expect it to be fantastic. 00:12:50.215 --> 00:13:00.545 And that's one of the big things I've stressed to people, because I don't want them to go away and think, yeah, let's do this and get really enthusiastic and then realize that what they've decided they're going to do is so much more work than they anticipated. 00:13:01.025 --> 00:13:04.005 I think if they go into it with that attitude that it's a lot of fun, but it's going to be a lot of work. 00:13:04.345 --> 00:13:04.645 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 00:13:04.695 --> 00:13:12.615 And I also think people not only underestimate the workload, but they underestimate the fact that they put all this workload into it and they're like, what's my return? 00:13:13.035 --> 00:13:25.025 And of course we always want a return, but I'm finding that the more we speak to different podcasters, and the more that Neil and I work with clients, is that there are returns that you would have never thought of. 00:13:25.345 --> 00:13:28.645 And people always just think of like, oh, listeners and whatever. 00:13:28.645 --> 00:13:32.235 But it's like, I know people who have gotten jobs from podcasts. 00:13:32.235 --> 00:13:37.750 I know people who have gotten new clients from podcasts and their listenership hasn't even been that crazy. 00:13:37.760 --> 00:13:44.080 One of the schools that Neil and I talked to, which is Stanford, one of their courses, a storytelling course. 00:13:44.110 --> 00:13:48.260 And they said that these students are in there for like communication or things like that. 00:13:48.460 --> 00:13:49.400 Just taking this course. 00:13:49.430 --> 00:13:56.260 And the professor was like, at the end of the course, they just happened to take these podcasts that they created, without her asking them to. 00:13:56.310 --> 00:14:00.620 And they got jobs in different fields because I think it just shows that you're dedicated. 00:14:00.630 --> 00:14:02.740 So podcasting can be used in many ways. 00:14:03.100 --> 00:14:05.670 But again, you've got to be the catalyst for it. 00:14:05.670 --> 00:14:08.750 You can't just stick it out there and be like, okay, that's it. 00:14:09.450 --> 00:14:10.010 Jon Cheek: Love it, Jen. 00:14:10.050 --> 00:14:11.030 Yeah, completely relate to that. 00:14:11.030 --> 00:14:18.880 And, one of the things I try and live by, I don't know if it's a term that's used so much kind of outside the UK, but it's podium and pedals. 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:27.470 And what I mean by that is rather than kind of always thinking about the podium in the sense of getting, you know, hundreds of thousands of listeners, I very much concentrate on the pedals. 00:14:27.470 --> 00:14:30.700 Do things well, do things consistently, and then the podium will come. 00:14:30.930 --> 00:14:36.070 But, you know, if the people think about the podium before doing the pedals, I think you've got it completely the wrong way around. 00:14:36.550 --> 00:14:38.540 And the other quick story I can share with you is. 00:14:38.850 --> 00:14:39.510 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:14:39.690 --> 00:14:43.007 Jennifer-Lee: I was like, that's the name of Neil's company. 00:14:43.037 --> 00:14:45.110 Jon Cheek: Just keep doing it. 00:14:45.110 --> 00:14:46.120 Neil McPhedran: Podium and pedals. 00:14:46.230 --> 00:14:47.560 Jennifer-Lee: That's a UK term? 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:49.860 Jon Cheek: I can't remember the source of it. 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:51.945 I read it in a book, I think somewhere. 00:14:52.375 --> 00:14:53.875 And I could just relate to it really well. 00:14:53.885 --> 00:15:08.770 And they, you know, they said pretty much the same thing that they, they concentrate, you know, rather than always thinking about the, the end goal and, and looking at weekly download figures and, and streaming figures and stuff, just concentrate on doing things well, because then if you do things well the podium part, you know, you will, that will come. 00:15:08.850 --> 00:15:13.130 But if you go into it, thinking podium, and I'm going to get the lead in podcasts straight away, it's not going to happen. 00:15:13.130 --> 00:15:14.360 You just need to be consistent. 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:18.470 You just need to do things well and edit things well, get good audio, get good guests. 00:15:18.510 --> 00:15:20.150 And that's what I've kind of taken from it. 00:15:20.180 --> 00:15:30.740 The other thing just to extend on that, is I work a lot with universities that travel the UK and go to visit students in schools and they'll travel say hundreds of miles to speak to students. 00:15:30.750 --> 00:15:36.990 Sometimes they might speak to a group of thirty students for an hour and spend half a day traveling to speak to those students. 00:15:37.710 --> 00:15:43.230 If they produce a video or a podcast and they had thirty people that listened to it, they'd be like, ah, that's disappointing. 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:45.200 It's still thirty people, isn't it? 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:52.410 And I think sometimes with the online stuff that we produce, people expect to have hundreds of thousands of views and millions of views or listens. 00:15:52.410 --> 00:15:54.830 And you know, in an ideal world, that would be fantastic if you get that. 00:15:54.830 --> 00:15:59.010 But if you get thirty, forty, fifty listens to a podcast that you've just launched, that's really good. 00:15:59.070 --> 00:16:03.860 Like give yourself a pat on the back rather than just trying to be the thousands, hundreds of thousands of persons right away. 00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:09.340 And going back to my pedals and podium, just keep on the pedals because it will come, but it won't come straight away. 00:16:09.845 --> 00:16:13.595 Jennifer-Lee: I'm gonna throw a pop culture reference that just happened into the mix here. 00:16:13.595 --> 00:16:30.855 But I think with just anything, a lot of people don't take the time and realize things are a long term goal, not, not a short term goal, because even I was just shocked, Demi Moore just won a Golden Globe and she said that's her first award ever in acting and she's been doing the career for forty-seven years. 00:16:30.875 --> 00:16:36.355 So, you know, if you've got, you gotta sometimes step it up, take a, take a while. 00:16:36.765 --> 00:16:37.135 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:16:37.885 --> 00:16:39.555 Um, so why a podcast? 00:16:39.555 --> 00:16:46.005 So you were at the, so if I, my math is right, you were at it for ten years with Uni Taster Days. 00:16:46.285 --> 00:16:50.335 And then somewhere in your tenth year, basically, you launched a podcast. 00:16:50.375 --> 00:16:56.065 So you obviously had previous to that had all kinds of communication tools and channels and whatnot going. 00:16:56.385 --> 00:17:07.110 Why did you think podcasting and what have you found from the podcast as sort of part of your quiver of communication tools and channels that you're meeting with a podcast? 00:17:07.890 --> 00:17:16.450 Jon Cheek: Yeah, probably if I go back to, the podcast launched in 2022, in January of 2022, I listened to podcasts, but I had no plans whatsoever to have one. 00:17:16.590 --> 00:17:22.560 How things changed is I was invited to go on another podcast and I had this conversation, it's a university podcast. 00:17:22.560 --> 00:17:29.650 Ultimately, I came away from that conversation, you know, we had a kind of pre chat, and I came away from the conversation thinking, I'd love to be more of a part of this. 00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:38.895 So it's a longer story really, but the, so I then contacted the organization that invited me to be a guest and said, look, if you're looking for a sponsor I'd love to support what you're doing. 00:17:38.925 --> 00:17:46.517 'Cause it was a podcast to support equal opportunity in education and didn't really work out because that organization they wanted to stay completely impartial. 00:17:46.517 --> 00:17:50.557 And if we have a, commercial partner on it, are we then completely impartial? 00:17:50.557 --> 00:18:00.913 And I could completely understand their decision, but I still thought, you know what, I could then start exploring my own a podcast and do something very different to what they do, but appeal to kind of masses. 00:18:00.993 --> 00:18:17.723 So I did a bit more digging and I spoke to a guy called Tim, who now produces our podcast and he was actually involved in the other podcast and said, look, I'm very confident I can get some really good guests, I've got these ideas but what I don't have any expertise on at all is the production side and how we produce this podcast, how we turn a conversation into great audio. 00:18:18.503 --> 00:18:19.893 And he's fantastic at that. 00:18:19.893 --> 00:18:27.468 And he's involved in lots of different podcasts and he had that expertise, whereas I had to kind of be the knowledge of where I wanted the podcast to ultimately go. 00:18:27.718 --> 00:18:29.118 And I think it's just one of those situations. 00:18:29.118 --> 00:18:37.732 So right place, right time, and I had more of a chat with Tim and we started planning and kind of three months after that initial conversation, we then produced our, first podcast 00:18:37.752 --> 00:18:43.532 And if we now fast forward to 2025, we've, produced, I think we're on number thirty-seven of them. 00:18:43.582 --> 00:18:50.352 And we've also been involved in another podcast called the One in Five, where someone listened to the Uni Guide and they were really impressed with it. 00:18:50.392 --> 00:18:54.402 And they actually wanted to produce a podcast themselves to support disabled students considering Uni. 00:18:54.707 --> 00:18:57.087 So they then approached us and said, look, we've got this idea. 00:18:57.087 --> 00:19:04.987 We want to support more disabled students to consider Uni, but we haven't got the expertise in house to produce this and would you like to be involved in it? 00:19:04.987 --> 00:19:06.707 And we were like, yeah, that sounds fantastic. 00:19:06.707 --> 00:19:06.957 So, 00:19:07.687 --> 00:19:09.477 Jennifer-Lee: I'd love to have them all on too. 00:19:09.527 --> 00:19:12.307 Neil McPhedran: And we'll put a link to that other podcast in our show notes as well. 00:19:12.587 --> 00:19:12.857 Jon Cheek: Yeah. 00:19:12.857 --> 00:19:12.987 Thanks. 00:19:13.067 --> 00:19:16.617 It's called the One in Five, because one in five students at university have a disability. 00:19:16.617 --> 00:19:24.907 And the really cool part of that podcast is Tim and I were involved in producing it, but the five co hosts all have different disabilities. 00:19:24.917 --> 00:19:26.757 So they kind of talked about lived experience. 00:19:26.777 --> 00:19:33.077 And it's one of the most positive, powerful, it's just such a nice podcast. 00:19:33.077 --> 00:19:38.757 And it's great to chat to people that listen to it and have been inspired perhaps to consider university as a result of it. 00:19:38.907 --> 00:19:57.582 And judging that, Jen mentioned earlier on, about wider benefits of being involved in the podcast and the five co hosts part of that, they contacted Tim and I to say they've grown so much as a result of it, you know, in terms of their communication skills and, and I'm sure, now I don't want to put words in their mouth, but I'm sure now, you know, kind of a year on, they're probably still talk about it. 00:19:57.582 --> 00:20:00.522 It's probably on their job applications, the things they've have been involved in. 00:20:01.062 --> 00:20:10.212 And it was just, it was a series of six podcasts, podcast episodes, but they, if you kind of listened to the first one and then the last one, you can just see how much they've developed. 00:20:10.272 --> 00:20:16.352 And we all had conversations and it's so much nicer when the guests are relaxed and you can just hear that their tone's so relaxed. 00:20:16.352 --> 00:20:20.922 And, and you never know, they might go ahead themselves in the future and create different podcasts about different subjects. 00:20:20.922 --> 00:20:23.847 And that all started from being involved in that One in Five. 00:20:23.847 --> 00:20:25.497 So yeah, lovely to be part of it. 00:20:25.517 --> 00:20:32.207 And that came as a result of the Uni Guide and people listening to that one and thinking, you know what, we can approach these two and see if they can help us with our one. 00:20:32.327 --> 00:20:32.887 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:20:32.937 --> 00:20:47.227 One of the things you mentioned, and I can see when I go to the website for the Uni Guide and you mentioned a little bit, was the student panel and the student participation in the podcast, the Uni Guide podcast. 00:20:47.577 --> 00:20:48.437 Curious about that. 00:20:48.437 --> 00:20:51.667 So can you sort of unpack that a little bit for us? 00:20:51.757 --> 00:20:53.837 How does that student panel work? 00:20:53.837 --> 00:20:56.057 And, tell us a little bit about that strategy. 00:20:56.467 --> 00:21:02.527 Jon Cheek: Yeah, it's funny, Neil, the journey in terms of the, what we do now is very much for students from students. 00:21:02.537 --> 00:21:05.377 So the advice comes from students. 00:21:05.387 --> 00:21:11.027 And actually Tim, the producer and my role is over the last couple of years, it's got smaller and smaller. 00:21:11.717 --> 00:21:14.237 And that is really based on feedback we've had. 00:21:14.237 --> 00:21:19.307 The listeners want to hear from students at university, about university. 00:21:19.637 --> 00:21:24.617 They don't want to hear from a forty year old man that previously attended a Uni and worked for Uni. 00:21:25.177 --> 00:21:27.277 And that's me, by the way. 00:21:27.277 --> 00:21:27.807 That's not Tim. 00:21:27.877 --> 00:21:28.587 Tim's much younger. 00:21:30.267 --> 00:21:34.257 I thought we could just create something that's like for students, from students, and they're volunteers. 00:21:34.257 --> 00:21:36.597 So we don't pay the students that are part of the podcast. 00:21:36.617 --> 00:21:38.767 They give up their time to kind of help other students. 00:21:38.987 --> 00:21:40.357 They talk about their own experience. 00:21:40.357 --> 00:21:47.237 And how we structure every single episode is we have two or three students from the student panel and then we have what we call an expert guest. 00:21:47.687 --> 00:21:53.457 The expert guest used to be from a university, so it used to be someone that works at a university in the UK. 00:21:54.487 --> 00:21:56.407 And that worked really well. 00:21:56.707 --> 00:22:07.177 The content was always impartial, but the worry we had was that, some listeners might think that this guest from University of whichever will just want to talk about University of whichever. 00:22:07.807 --> 00:22:09.107 And, we were a bit worried about that. 00:22:09.137 --> 00:22:15.677 So we thought by having a guest that's completely external to a university, we could then really, really build the impartiality. 00:22:15.727 --> 00:22:16.887 And that's how we do things now. 00:22:16.887 --> 00:22:18.657 But the student panel is so brilliant. 00:22:18.807 --> 00:22:21.677 They, again, give up their time to help others. 00:22:21.837 --> 00:22:23.897 And I'd like to think they've got a lot out of it as well. 00:22:23.897 --> 00:22:26.487 And I'm listening to them over the years. 00:22:26.677 --> 00:22:32.207 Their communication skills have developed massively, but we're always really, really keen to kind of help them. 00:22:32.367 --> 00:22:45.947 So when it comes to small things like writing recommendations or references for them, and also to kind of ask them how we could help them further in terms of, is there any skills that you want us to help you with when it comes to being part of the podcast? 00:22:47.102 --> 00:22:48.722 They are a massive part of it. 00:22:48.882 --> 00:22:53.452 And there's seven students now that appear on various episodes, you know, two or three students each time. 00:22:53.492 --> 00:22:57.112 We book a guest and then we send up two students to say, look, this date, who fancies it? 00:22:57.112 --> 00:22:57.672 Who's available? 00:22:57.672 --> 00:23:01.172 And then students work with us to create some questions for the guest. 00:23:01.242 --> 00:23:02.832 They're very involved in the whole process. 00:23:03.022 --> 00:23:04.992 A lot of the success of the podcast is down to them. 00:23:05.012 --> 00:23:07.712 Tim and I, producer Tim and myself, are now a small part of it. 00:23:07.722 --> 00:23:13.322 We're more behind the scenes and we leave it to the guest or the students to create really good content that listeners will hopefully really enjoy listening to. 00:23:13.432 --> 00:23:17.567 Jennifer-Lee: So when you guys are looking for guests, what type of guests are you looking for? 00:23:17.727 --> 00:23:22.417 Jon Cheek: I'm actually, at the moment, one of my current jobs is looking at potential guests that can appear on it. 00:23:22.797 --> 00:23:28.747 What we try and do is find subjects that we think students considering university will be super interested in. 00:23:29.457 --> 00:23:33.127 And then once we get the subject, we look for people that are experts in that area. 00:23:33.497 --> 00:23:35.897 And a lot of the time they're looking for organizations. 00:23:35.947 --> 00:23:41.327 If I give you an example, the latest podcast that we launched actually just today is all about writing personal statements. 00:23:41.337 --> 00:23:47.697 So in the UK, if you want to apply for a university, you need to write a page about yourself essentially, and why you're going to be great for Uni. 00:23:48.167 --> 00:23:51.927 The deadline for personal statements is in, at the end of this month. 00:23:51.927 --> 00:23:55.447 So we had that topic, you know, personal statements are due at the end of this month. 00:23:55.507 --> 00:23:56.577 That's the topic we wanted. 00:23:57.167 --> 00:24:00.897 And then we just looked out for people that do really interesting work in that space. 00:24:00.897 --> 00:24:03.917 And the guest that we've got on this episode is a guy called Jonathan. 00:24:03.937 --> 00:24:11.957 He's worked at eight different universities for twenty-five years, and now he runs a completely separate organization that produces newsletters and things to support students. 00:24:12.667 --> 00:24:16.677 And he was probably the person that jumped out as being the biggest expert we could find in that space. 00:24:16.697 --> 00:24:17.357 So we approached him. 00:24:17.357 --> 00:24:24.917 And for the next one, we'll kind of look at deadlines that are coming up in February and then March and student finance and things, and nail the subject. 00:24:25.037 --> 00:24:26.937 And then once we've got the subject, we try and find guests. 00:24:26.947 --> 00:24:35.727 And one interesting thing is it's very, very rare when we approach guests, I don't know if you both find this, but it's very, very rare when we approach guests that guests say no. 00:24:36.897 --> 00:24:39.497 Usually they, they actually lap up the chance of being on a podcast. 00:24:39.527 --> 00:24:48.207 And it's probably, I don't know, perhaps why they say yes, it might be visibility or it might just be that they listen to podcasts themselves and they perhaps just want to be involved in the process and want to know what's involved. 00:24:48.207 --> 00:24:50.397 And we're really fortunate in terms of guests. 00:24:50.397 --> 00:24:51.327 We've never struggled. 00:24:51.487 --> 00:24:53.447 Jennifer-Lee: I just think podcasting is a new way of connecting. 00:24:53.457 --> 00:25:01.722 It's a new way to basically have a coffee and also get your point across and have a wider reach as we all work on our personal brands. 00:25:01.722 --> 00:25:04.422 And I really think what you guys are doing is really unique. 00:25:04.432 --> 00:25:09.632 The fact that you're doing topics that don't pertain to one university, they pertain to many. 00:25:09.632 --> 00:25:16.662 And the fact that you're kind of getting more neutral guests that are targeted, opposed to like other universities that we've done in the past. 00:25:16.662 --> 00:25:20.782 It's so focused on that school and what their criteria is. 00:25:20.792 --> 00:25:23.212 So I just feel like you guys are doing something really unique. 00:25:23.272 --> 00:25:27.242 Neil and I have not hit on that in North America yet. 00:25:27.732 --> 00:25:43.532 Neil McPhedran: We've talked to recruiter podcasts that are definitely in a similar vein, I guess, that are focused on helping students figure out, but you get into a specific program at a school or get into a school. 00:25:43.542 --> 00:25:44.622 Jennifer-Lee: A very specific school. 00:25:44.652 --> 00:25:50.252 Neil McPhedran: As you say, Uni, but I like your wider aperture that you've, that, you know, that you've applied. 00:25:50.392 --> 00:25:50.672 Jon Cheek: Yeah. 00:25:50.672 --> 00:26:01.812 It's, I suppose the big advantage that we've got as an organization kind of sitting in the middle ground, working with the vast majority of Uni's, is we can be completely impartial and we can, you know, we're not talking about a particular Uni. 00:26:01.812 --> 00:26:03.772 In fact, we never ever talk about a particular Uni. 00:26:04.182 --> 00:26:13.442 We talk about a university topic, wherever it's you know, writing a personal statement, applying for student finance, why you might want to consider university, you know, they're all very central topics. 00:26:13.442 --> 00:26:24.402 But actually they, these are topics that seventeen and eighteen year olds are going to be thinking about because university is such a, you know, wherever that's universities in the US or universities in the UK, it's such a big decision. 00:26:24.452 --> 00:26:30.592 And if people always talk about the cost of it, but actually I always think it's time, like you can make loads of money in the future. 00:26:30.592 --> 00:26:35.512 If you, you know, a lot of students will make lots of money in the future, but what they can't get is that time they spend at Uni. 00:26:36.012 --> 00:26:44.292 And that's a big part of why we do what we do, is hopefully doing all we can to make that investment of time, a really good one, whether it's a university they go to or which course they do. 00:26:44.507 --> 00:26:48.357 And resources like the podcast, I think, go a long way to helping students with that. 00:26:48.847 --> 00:26:53.607 Jennifer-Lee: It's just smart because I haven't obviously applied for university for a long time. 00:26:54.767 --> 00:27:04.917 And I remember the application process was quite convoluted and complicated and like, you know, we had the internet, but I didn't have all these resources that we have now. 00:27:04.987 --> 00:27:05.337 Jon Cheek: Exactly. 00:27:05.407 --> 00:27:08.347 And now I support resources that support students considering university. 00:27:08.347 --> 00:27:11.787 But if I go back to myself when I was seventeen and eighteen, I was absolutely useless. 00:27:11.807 --> 00:27:16.277 I picked my course based on one chat with a careers advisor in a school. 00:27:16.277 --> 00:27:21.947 So, but a big reason why I do what I do now is to avoid what I did looking back and making things. 00:27:21.977 --> 00:27:22.257 available. 00:27:22.257 --> 00:27:27.877 And you know people say there's so much information at students fingertips now, which there is, but they still got to find it. 00:27:28.047 --> 00:27:33.027 And actually the more that we can do, whether it's podcasts, really useful websites to make that easier. 00:27:33.077 --> 00:27:41.117 Neil McPhedran: I want to say I commend you on something that you've, that sort of a thread that's come up on a couple of things as we've talked is how you listen to your audience. 00:27:41.487 --> 00:27:50.947 And I think that we as podcasters need to spend more time listening to our audience versus just being focused on the next episode and what we're producing and the content. 00:27:51.357 --> 00:27:58.247 You early on in your podcast, as you mentioned, made that pivot from an audience to more focused in on the students. 00:27:58.247 --> 00:28:11.527 But then the story you told about the student panel and how that's come about and how that podcast has evolved and the thread that you've mentioned throughout is listening to your audience and what you heard from your audience. 00:28:11.527 --> 00:28:19.617 And I just think that's a great takeaway for ourselves, Jen, you and I, but also our audience here as well, too. 00:28:19.617 --> 00:28:21.287 So, uh, that is excellent. 00:28:21.287 --> 00:28:26.707 I think maybe that's a good thing for, I'm going to remember that for 2025 as I move forward. 00:28:26.707 --> 00:28:29.497 Just sort of how important listening to your audience is. 00:28:29.697 --> 00:28:34.317 Jon Cheek: The only thing I was kind of extend in on that, I'm very into, you know, I really appreciate you saying that Neil. 00:28:34.367 --> 00:28:43.147 The big, I'm such an advocate of listening to the audience rather than kind of getting absorbed in numbers, which a lot of people will look at numbers first. 00:28:43.307 --> 00:28:46.427 I don't actually, I try and get feedback from listeners first. 00:28:46.427 --> 00:28:50.487 And if you, a lot of people will look at, you know, downloads of each episode. 00:28:50.487 --> 00:28:59.447 But unless you're changing something radically, actually looking at, you know, spending lots of time looking at numbers all the time, I don't think helps massively because you haven't changed your approach. 00:28:59.447 --> 00:29:09.007 You know, our podcast now is we have an expert guest, we have a student panel, and then we have a chat for about an hour and produce a thirty minute episode as part of that. 00:29:09.007 --> 00:29:16.777 And if we, if we changed that completely, whether it became the audience or how we did things, then naturally, then you've got to go straight to the numbers and see what the impact is. 00:29:16.807 --> 00:29:26.709 But if you're not going to change it, I think, you know, change it radically, I think that what you get so much more use out of is actually talking to listeners and saying like, what you like, what don't you like, what could we improve on? 00:29:26.709 --> 00:29:29.149 And you don't get that in terms of looking at bare numbers. 00:29:29.289 --> 00:29:34.849 You get that on feedback and creating more of a community perhaps is where we'd like to go longer term. 00:29:34.849 --> 00:29:39.689 And, we don't do that so much now, but wouldn't it be nice to have that kind of community filter podcast? 00:29:41.089 --> 00:29:45.659 So I'm really looking forward to doing more this year is making more of a community of it. 00:29:46.499 --> 00:29:52.799 Jennifer-Lee: I think you're so ahead because that's an important thing that a lot of people don't do, is listen to their audience. 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:57.479 Yes, you can look at the numbers, but if you're not listening to your audience, how are you going to grow? 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:22.834 That being said, you already gave us one great tidbit, but just in general, in the university post secondary podcasting space, is there something that you hear other podcasters do you don't have to throw anyone under the bus, but anyone in that space that you would love to change or something you'd like to see, um, in the post secondary education podcasting space that you haven't seen or you'd like to fix? 00:30:23.604 --> 00:30:25.094 Jon Cheek: That's a brilliant question, Jen. 00:30:25.184 --> 00:30:34.629 The only thing I would kind of answer, and it's probably not the best answer, but it's the best one I can give right now, is that I think doing things well is the most important. 00:30:34.639 --> 00:30:44.339 The amount of podcasts that you see that are very short lived because someone's had an idea and they've had, you know, one or two podcasts and looked at the figures and then thought, ah, there's not enough people listening. 00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:48.169 I just think you need to do it well and you need to do it consistently. 00:30:48.169 --> 00:30:53.889 So when I say do it well, I mean, produce a podcast really well, make sure the audio is good, make sure the guests are briefed. 00:30:53.929 --> 00:30:58.749 And the thing that surprised me in terms of this podcast is you could speak to the most confident people in the world. 00:30:59.224 --> 00:31:03.294 But actually, if they've never appeared on a podcast, they are going to be massively out of their comfort zone. 00:31:03.294 --> 00:31:08.064 And one thing that you guys are really good at and you've done with me is make people feel comfortable. 00:31:08.114 --> 00:31:12.454 And then you can get so much better content because someone's comfortable having a conversation with you. 00:31:12.454 --> 00:31:26.394 And that's probably the one thing, not so much answering the question as well as I perhaps should have, Jen, 'cause I'm kind of getting on a tangent, but I would say that maybe the thing that we need to do more of is really thinking about the podcast before you go straight to recording it. 00:31:26.844 --> 00:31:40.814 And taking more of a long term view of it and say, look, we're going to do this for one year, whether it's twelve episodes, if you do it monthly, or if you do it weekly, I wouldn't suggest doing a weekly perhaps for university podcasts, but if you did do a weekly, you know, it's fifty-two, um, don't do it weekly. 00:31:41.494 --> 00:31:46.419 Say if it's twelve episodes and actually committing to it and saying, look, I am going to do this consistently for this period of time. 00:31:46.684 --> 00:31:54.024 And then in a year's time or however long you put on it, we'll then have a look at where we are and not kind of having the attitude where I'm going to just release it straight away. 00:31:54.104 --> 00:31:57.604 And then in two weeks or three weeks, I'm going to look at the thousands of listeners. 00:31:57.894 --> 00:32:01.304 Because it's very unlikely that's going to happen and you'll be disappointed. 00:32:01.304 --> 00:32:15.454 So I think it's more, if people decide and they're going to do it and really thinking hard about doing it and taking a long term view of it and then producing something consistently that's really good, is what I'd like to see more of rather than kind of the, the impulsive podcast where it's like, we'll do this. 00:32:15.454 --> 00:32:20.504 And then you then see on, you know, Spotify or Apple podcast, however, there's people listening. 00:32:20.564 --> 00:32:22.164 You see podcasts with a subject. 00:32:22.204 --> 00:32:25.152 It will say the last episode was recorded in 2023 or so. 00:32:25.152 --> 00:32:27.114 And you're like, what a shame. 00:32:27.344 --> 00:32:31.764 Jennifer-Lee: I thought that was a brilliant answer and a great end to this conversation. 00:32:31.814 --> 00:32:32.314 Neil McPhedran: It's great. 00:32:32.364 --> 00:32:34.504 I've really enjoyed our conversation. 00:32:34.594 --> 00:32:38.154 And I think there's some really good takeaways for our audience here. 00:32:38.154 --> 00:32:41.394 And thank you so much for sharing and being open with us. 00:32:41.824 --> 00:32:43.724 Jon Cheek: I've really enjoyed this and I've also enjoyed listening. 00:32:43.724 --> 00:32:43.814 Yeah. 00:32:43.814 --> 00:32:48.874 I'm so glad that we had the initial conversation because now I can find out more about the stuff you're doing. 00:32:48.904 --> 00:32:50.364 And you've certainly gained a listener now. 00:32:50.364 --> 00:32:52.364 So I'll be listening to future podcasts. 00:32:52.364 --> 00:32:52.914 Neil McPhedran: I love it. 00:32:53.014 --> 00:32:55.454 Gaining one listener at a time through guesting. 00:32:57.964 --> 00:33:01.204 Well, Jen, another awesome conversation there. 00:33:01.204 --> 00:33:03.184 I really enjoyed our chat with Jon. 00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:07.669 It's too bad, we were supposed to also have his producer, Tim, join him. 00:33:07.689 --> 00:33:11.379 We had some technical glitches there off the top and it didn't quite work for him. 00:33:11.399 --> 00:33:13.259 We're going to have Tim on separately. 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:20.269 He actually works with a few other podcasts that are sort of in and around the space that look pretty interesting, but great chat we had with Jon. 00:33:20.289 --> 00:33:37.434 I really like the pivots that he made with the podcast and especially sort of how he's focused in more and more on actual prospective students, students looking to get into university and, you know, he's brought more students into it. 00:33:37.444 --> 00:33:44.844 So like his voice is kind of pulling back a little bit and it's more students voices for students. 00:33:44.844 --> 00:33:50.904 I thought that was a really interesting, I guess, not necessarily a pivot, but a really interesting evolution that he's made with the podcast. 00:33:50.934 --> 00:33:58.244 I love to see that when podcasts make changes along based on what they learn and hear and feedback they get from their audiences. 00:33:58.649 --> 00:34:05.409 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, I also like the fact that he mentioned a lot of podcasts when you're doing a specific university, you're tied to that university. 00:34:05.489 --> 00:34:16.859 And that he said this one, it's like you can interview many different universities and get feedback from, not just what is it like to apply to them, but going back to your earlier point, of having the students come on in their voice. 00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:24.089 About really what their thoughts about going to university and things that they struggled with and it's not just about the application process. 00:34:24.089 --> 00:34:28.029 It's like afterwards getting in and it's like, well, how do you get a dorm? 00:34:28.029 --> 00:34:32.569 Like they do various topics of like, where is like, where is your community? 00:34:32.589 --> 00:34:34.119 How do you get new friends? 00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:40.209 Neil McPhedran: And then from that, to be able to hear in the student's voice, I think, is just, uh, fantastic. 00:34:40.209 --> 00:34:42.949 So yeah, anyway, another great episode. 00:34:42.969 --> 00:34:43.319 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 00:34:43.319 --> 00:34:58.019 And that's what really makes this podcast unique because I think when we are all thinking about post secondary education, we want to ask those questions, but we don't have someone to tell us that because at the end of the day, university isn't really right for everybody. 00:34:58.259 --> 00:35:06.199 It's not something that everybody should invest time into or money and maybe, it doesn't mean like you're not successful. 00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:11.359 There are like a lot of entrepreneurs that never even went to postsecondary school, but you got to find your fit. 00:35:11.379 --> 00:35:14.949 So I think it is a really great resource. 00:35:15.134 --> 00:35:19.104 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, you're right about the agnostic point of view. 00:35:19.114 --> 00:35:32.674 We've definitely chatted with a few podcasts that are specific to a university and the recruitment process and they're super helpful and excellent resources. 00:35:32.684 --> 00:35:41.824 This is an interesting one coming from the purview of, you know, it's not associated with a specific institution, so it's an agnostic voice, if you will. 00:35:42.534 --> 00:35:48.654 Jennifer-Lee: So, anyways, thank you for tuning in to the Continuing Studies podcast, a podcast for higher education podcasters. 00:35:49.004 --> 00:35:52.064 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:35:52.074 --> 00:35:59.339 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform so you'll never miss an episode. 00:35:59.689 --> 00:36:08.889 But if you found this episode particularly valuable, please consider sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested in higher education podcasts. 00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:18.524 We also invite you to join your peers on HigherEdPods.com where you can connect with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 00:36:18.594 --> 00:36:20.624 Thank you for being part of our community. 00:36:20.624 --> 00:36:26.204 We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and conversations around higher education podcasts. 00:36:26.214 --> 00:36:27.264 See you in the next episode.