00:00:04:00 - 00:00:29:12 Justin Nabity This is the DocNation podcast. We are a movement founded by doctors for doctors dedicated to empowering medical professional to reclaim control over health care decisions and advocating for their fair share of the industry's resources. Please note the views expressed are those of DocNation and not necessarily those of our Guest or Reference Health centers. Kate, so great to have you on the DocNation podcast. 00:00:29:12 - 00:00:35:14 Justin Nabity And, you were telling us earlier about today being a special day. Why don't you share that with our audience? 00:00:35:16 - 00:01:05:11 Dr. Kate Aberle Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Today is October 18th, and October 18th is special in the Catholic Church because it's the feast of Saint Luke and Saint Luke was one of the gospel writers and is believed that he was a physician. And so as a Catholic and also as a as a physician, it's really important that, that we keep him in mind that he can be an example for us as we advance the kingdom of medicine, through Saint Luke's example, but also really after the example of Jesus, the divine physician. 00:01:05:13 - 00:01:14:23 Justin Nabity Yeah. That's so cool. Thanks for keeping us up to speed on that. That's really great. Tell us about your journey into medicine and what you're doing today. 00:01:15:00 - 00:01:41:06 Dr. Kate Aberle So I believe I had a calling that I received when I was about 15 years of age to one day open up my own medical practice, and over the years, through the experiences that I've been given, I'm an ear, nose and throat surgeon. And over my career, God has opened up doors so that I've worked in different work environments, all private practice, but all really with that entrepreneurial spirit to help guide and inspire me. 00:01:41:08 - 00:01:51:11 Dr. Kate Aberle And where I'm at now is I really at the start of the fulfillment of that dream that I had, I hate to say this, but 30 years ago, I. 00:01:51:13 - 00:01:54:00 Justin Nabity Still here, it’s real. 00:01:54:02 - 00:02:19:15 Dr. Kate Aberle But it's taken that long. And what's been really remarkable is that when I was initially having this dream where I thought about it over all these years, you know, in college, in medical school and residency. And then when I was out, out of the out of residency and in private practice, I always had in my mind that it would just be like every other physician practice, you know, you open up your door, you have a shingle, you take insurance, and you just kind of do the gig that everybody's doing. 00:02:19:17 - 00:02:45:01 Dr. Kate Aberle But what what God is, I believe, revealed to me, especially over the last few years, is that, yes, he wants me to open up a medical practice, but to have the focus be something that's a little bit unique, that we're not quite really seeing much, currently in our practice of medicine. And what I mean by that is that what I believe is that God is calling me to really incorporate him and bring him back at the center of medicine. 00:02:45:03 - 00:03:15:11 Dr. Kate Aberle We believe that Jesus is the divine physician, and his ministry was all about healing people. He healed them physically. He was also healing their hearts emotionally and spiritually. And I believe that physicians are called in the same way today to bring that healing to patients. And so I believe that as I open up my doors to, practice medicine as an ear, nose and throat surgeon that I'm being called to pray with patients to invoke or to ask God for his divine inspiration. 00:03:15:11 - 00:03:34:17 Dr. Kate Aberle When I'm in the exam room, what is it that you have for this patient when I'm in the operating room praying with people before surgery to bring God's peace in the operating room to ask him to inspire my mind, to guide my hands, to really involve him at every step of the way when it comes to delivering care. 00:03:34:17 - 00:03:45:13 Dr. Kate Aberle And and I believe that when we start doing that in a profound way, that really the way that medicine is practiced is going to change in a profound way. 00:03:45:15 - 00:04:19:13 Neil Dougherty I love hearing that. And, it's it's for it's really, really cool to see you so secure and bold in your faith and how that has inspired you in medicine. I think there are so many people now that look at health care, particularly even patients that are like, I don't know if I'm going to get treated well, I don't know what's really going on here, you know, but, to be able to see physicians, in your story, I think that's going to be it's that's huge for a lot of people to see. 00:04:19:15 - 00:04:26:08 Neil Dougherty But most, I think most physicians get into medicine because they feel called to, like you were saying. 00:04:26:09 - 00:04:45:12 Dr. Kate Aberle Yeah, I feel I feel like the practice of medicine really over the last four years. I mean, it's been broken for a long time, but the last four years, I think those cracks that were just there really became like gigantic, just gigantic fissures, in the, in the field of medicine. And I think a lot of patients have been disillusioned by their doctors. 00:04:45:12 - 00:05:05:02 Dr. Kate Aberle They feel wherever I go, I talk to people. And the the things that people share with me is that they feel like they're a number where they feel like, I think our current way that we practice medicine, we're really good about saying, well, this diagnostic test, like, you have this problem or you don't have this problem. 00:05:05:04 - 00:05:25:07 Dr. Kate Aberle And if a patient has a test that shows that it's negative, for example, like I had a patient who told me she was having swallowing issues, she had an upper GI scoped by the gastroenterologist and he said, everything looks great. Well, her answer, her question to the doctor was, well, I'm still having issues. What do I do? And he didn't really have anything to say for her. 00:05:25:09 - 00:05:44:23 Dr. Kate Aberle And so I feel like that's happening repeatedly in a lot of different fields that patients, the doctors, don't have much time. I think the average office visit is now seven minutes, and there's no way when you're spending seven minutes with a doctor that you can really get to the emotional, the spiritual, the other aspects that can drive illness. 00:05:45:00 - 00:06:03:05 Dr. Kate Aberle You're just looking at the physical body itself. And in just doing that, you're you're not looking at the whole person. You're just looking at the same I...I believe, like like an iPhone glitch. Or if you had a clogged pipe in your house, like the plumber would come out, fix the problem and be done. But the human person is body, mind and soul. 00:06:03:05 - 00:06:16:06 Dr. Kate Aberle And I think that's why patients are so disillusioned right now. And I think also that physicians and nurses and medical practitioners are really being crushed under the weight of this system that is so broken. 00:06:16:08 - 00:06:34:19 Justin Nabity So, Neil, you commented about Kate's boldness and I would agree with you. Kate, do you think that your peers and those that are in the the work environments that you've been in, does it feel like they kind of have a piece of duct tape over their mouth that they can't they can't do they can't say they can't be. 00:06:34:21 - 00:07:08:11 Justin Nabity They can't care. They can't love on people the way that they would like to. It's it's like, oh, you can go this far with the tests. And that's kind of the the limit of how far you can go to, to help someone when you're right. There's so much more than just the physical aspect to a person. There's the mental, the spiritual side of this is do you find the others or are are feeling the same way, or, is it more to just something that you're noticing that's unique to your practice and what how God's inspiring you? 00:07:08:13 - 00:07:27:19 Dr. Kate Aberle I think this is this is at the heart of so many doctors and nurses and other health care professionals that that they they're being, as I mentioned, they're being crushed by the system. And they they want more. They want a deeper relationship with their patients. There are some health care systems that are openly antagonistic that you cannot pray with your patients. 00:07:27:21 - 00:07:55:05 Dr. Kate Aberle Or maybe it's not necessarily something that’s said, but they've got that duct tape because they only have, you know, seven minutes or their hospital administrators because they're not in private practice anymore. I think some statistic recently said 75% of physician practices, or physicians rather, are employed. And so when you have so many doctors that are employed, they don't have the the leverage to be able to dictate how they're going to be, working with their patients. 00:07:55:05 - 00:08:19:08 Dr. Kate Aberle And a lot of the administrators are just saying, okay, you need to see more, you need to see more, you need to see more and to do what? To kind of dive deeper. It takes a little bit more time. And you also, I think, have to have your heart being able to be open, to be able to see what's going on with those patients, to be able to connect with their heart and the way that the system is where it's indirectly or directly being prohibited. 00:08:19:11 - 00:08:38:22 Dr. Kate Aberle It's very difficult. But, I think there are so many doctors, nurses, social workers that want to have this experience and maybe they just didn't know that this was possible in the field of medicine. They just they just were unaware, or maybe they want to do it and they just feel like for whatever reason, they're not able to do to, to do so. 00:08:38:24 - 00:08:48:07 Dr. Kate Aberle But I think there's, I think there's a calling for all of us to get to that, to connect to the heart of the person sitting in front of us. 00:08:48:07 - 00:09:20:09 Neil Dougherty That’s really well said. Honestly, growing up, what was portrayed, even in entertainment, it was like I knew doctors like this, right? There was the doctors would go the extra mile there. You know, this is kind of what we saw on, on television. Right. But to know that 75% of them are in a system where they might be crushed and only seeing a patient for seven minutes, that changes things. 00:09:20:11 - 00:10:08:02 Justin Nabity And think about the why that's required. Why is seven minutes all that you get. Well because they want churn. They want transactions. They want dollars and all those dollars are going elsewhere. It's being sucked into a direction that doesn't go to the people that it should go to, which is a huge drum that we continuously beat. And this relationship between doctor and patient has been just there's a huge wedge in between the two, and you're talking about building a health system that essentially restores it back to what it was meant to be, which is beautiful, which is a super personal and intentional, where today it's like, again, they want it’s almost like they want robots. 00:10:08:03 - 00:10:33:04 Justin Nabity They don't they don't want humans to think with. And they go deeper with their patients to really get at the core stuff that might be going on in their life that could be triggering what's happening. So can you tell us more about your your vision and how you see what this can do to address this really systematic issue that's affected the industry? 00:10:33:06 - 00:10:54:21 Dr. Kate Aberle Yeah. So, you know, just to kind of give a little bit of background, I think with to look at, to move forward, I think we have to look back and what's broken in the system right now. And and Justin, you've alluded to quite a few of those things. And Neil as well about, you know, that stereotypical image that we had in the, in media, in the past, you know, we have electronic medical records that have been mandated after Obamacare. 00:10:54:21 - 00:11:24:19 Dr. Kate Aberle And so those electronic medical records sound really great. But the problem is, it's a lot of check boxes, and it's forcing an algorithm based kind of a recipe based care where each person kind of you come in with diagnosis X. Okay. We go through this algorithm, which is very unpersonalized. The other problem, and I think the biggest issue that I have as a patient is I really don't feel like the doctor can connect with me when they're staring at that computer, and they're typing away when I'm trying to tell them what's going on with me, and they're not able to look me in the eye. 00:11:24:21 - 00:11:28:23 Dr. Kate Aberle I think that's a that's a huge problem. We've just we've got. 00:11:28:23 - 00:11:43:07 Justin Nabity Why does that matter? So backup though, why does that matter? Because someone that can be easily so, so easily brushed off as well. You're still telling them the same information and they're listening and they're typing and they're I mean, what what what's the real problem with that? 00:11:43:09 - 00:12:00:14 Dr. Kate Aberle Well, I can speak for my own personal experience as a physician who loathes the EMR, on the physician side of things, I know that when when they were first implemented, I tried having that computer and I tried typing away, and I was looking at the patient and also typing typing without, you know, without looking down at the keyboard. 00:12:00:19 - 00:12:20:08 Dr. Kate Aberle But I was more focused on making sure that I was getting everything typed. And if if I made a spelling error, you know, correcting that I was even though I was looking at the patient, I was more focused on what I was writing down. And I really I did not like that. I felt like it was taking away from that connection with the patient, because so much of the communication is nonverbal. 00:12:20:10 - 00:12:49:01 Dr. Kate Aberle And, and so when I've been in practice, I have my medical assistant be my scribe. So she's the one that's taking the notes, and I'm the one that's looking at that patient because you you get so much more as a, as a doctor when you're looking at that person, you're seeing what's going on. You just there's so much more that's conveyed that when you're not focusing on that technology in front of you and you're putting your focus on that patient, I just feel like the, the level of care that's directed is so much higher. 00:12:49:07 - 00:13:25:13 Dr. Kate Aberle But also the patients have told me that they so appreciate that I'm able to hear what's going on, to understand and to really have that that more empathetic relationship, which again, it's just it just solidifies that that's that sacred doctor patient bond. So that's why I think it's so important to kind of get away that what seem to be in theory, when the politicians were, were mandating this, I think it sounded really great, like they're going to decrease medical errors and different things, but it has morphed into something that unfortunately has has taken so much time away from the doctors. 00:13:25:13 - 00:13:46:02 Dr. Kate Aberle There's so much burnout because of all the time spent on the electronic record. But to get to your other question, Justin, what I see is a vision that I have is a health care system where where God is invited in, where patients, are coming because they want a deeper level of healing. They're not wanting a quick fix. 00:13:46:02 - 00:14:06:00 Dr. Kate Aberle They want to get to really what's driving their disease. And we live in a time when we have chronic health conditions that were never even around 100 years ago. There's a lot of debate for why that's the case now, but we've got so many things that are going on. People are not living full lives because of the health issues that they're dragging behind them. 00:14:06:02 - 00:14:25:09 Dr. Kate Aberle But I want I want an environment where, when the patient comes in, they feel that connection with their doctor. Their doctor listens to them. If if the person has a has an issue that has some emotional, roots as to what's going on, that we can address that and kind of focus on that as part of our treatment plan. 00:14:25:11 - 00:14:50:20 Dr. Kate Aberle Perhaps, you know, praying with them or offering meditation as part of their, their treatment plan, for example, as I mentioned earlier in the operating room, especially inviting God to help guide my hands as a surgeon, the mind of the anesthesia doc and the other folks in the room. I think those things are so important. And I think when we invite God back as the Divine Physician, we bring him back into the practice of medicine. 00:14:50:22 - 00:15:12:03 Dr. Kate Aberle We can practice medicine with all the modern technology and the knowledge set that we have. Our health care system, we’re educated here as doctors in an amazing way, and we have amazing technology, especially in the O.R. but we can combine that with supernatural prayer and, and just inviting God in and asking for him for his divine wisdom. 00:15:12:09 - 00:15:35:10 Dr. Kate Aberle And I think what we can achieve with that is going to be incredible. And I give an example just from this last week, my dad had knee replacement surgery on Wednesday, and there was some nursing staff that was in the room and pre-op bay just really causing a lot of anxiety in my patient, in my parents. And so I just offered I was driving my kids to school so I couldn't be there in that moment. 00:15:35:10 - 00:15:41:07 Dr. Kate Aberle But I just asked them, I said, can I pray over you guys? Can I pray into this room? And so I just. 00:15:41:09 - 00:15:42:21 Justin Nabity Like you’re on a phone call? 00:15:42:21 - 00:16:04:23 Dr. Kate Aberle I was on a phone call. Yeah, yeah. And I just I prayed, I said, Lord, I ask you to bring your shalom peace into this room. I ask you to inspire the doctors, inspire their hands, inspire their mind and just bring your peace. We invite you into this operating room. Is pre-op room this whole this whole experience today. And we invite you in, Lord. 00:16:05:00 - 00:16:26:17 Dr. Kate Aberle And what my mom shared with me is that as soon as we we were done with the prayer, the nurse that was kind of fomenting this anxiety and my parents and just just not bringing peace, like he left the room immediately and he did not return. And the surgery was supposed to start about an hour later. Well, immediately the surgical team came in and they said, okay, we're moving ahead of schedule, we're bringing you back. 00:16:26:19 - 00:16:48:19 Dr. Kate Aberle And the surgery went amazingly well. Everybody just had peace. I mean, it was like it was such an answer to prayer, how that changed the atmosphere of the room. And it changed the rest of the day that there was so much peace with every person that was involved in the care of my dad, and just the way that he was after surgery, he he was he had such peace about him. 00:16:48:21 - 00:17:02:08 Dr. Kate Aberle It was remarkable. So it's just a little testimony of when we when we call upon God and we ask him to help us. He doesn't leave us orphaned. He helps out in ways beyond what we can imagine. 00:17:02:10 - 00:17:28:14 Neil Dougherty That is, that's awesome. First, I am so glad that your dad's surgery went well too. I help out in surgeries sometimes as well, and I can, definitely attest to the fact that when we actually took a second to pause and have some prayer, it's like there is that peace in the room and everyone's on their game remembers kind of like what we're here for. 00:17:28:16 - 00:17:33:00 Neil Dougherty That's, thank you for reminding us of that. 00:17:33:02 - 00:18:02:10 Justin Nabity Yeah. For those who maybe this what we're talking about is not familiar or it's new. Like this idea of the Holy Spirit. What is the Holy Spirit? Something that's been helpful for me as I think about this, is having a spiritual GPS that literally guides you. You know what a GPS system, is we use GPS all the time, but God wants to be with you and be that that direction. 00:18:02:10 - 00:18:34:22 Justin Nabity Force prompting, directing, leading. And so why do medicine? Based on your own effort and that's it. When you could have spiritual power and guidance, that GPS guidance and the spiritual guidance behind it. So I love that. And I think about the health system, I don't know what percentage of it of these health centers are Catholic, founded or driven. 00:18:34:24 - 00:19:01:08 Justin Nabity And lots of places that the espouse values and virtue and have these core tenets of what they believe in. It's like, man, I don't hear this being talked about or being used or incorporated. So I'm excited to see what you're going to do to set the the bar and to create an example of what this can be to help. 00:19:01:10 - 00:19:26:02 Justin Nabity There's alot of pressure on you. You're you're you're helping people in some of their greatest moments of need. And there's pressure on you. And so having the support of God our Father, to direct you and for patients to have a peace as well as you prayed and there was an outcome of peace being being provided like this. 00:19:26:04 - 00:19:42:07 Justin Nabity This is big decision. The people's lives are are being impacted greatly by this. And why not have this be a core part? So thank you for your leadership and taking these steps to to go in this direction. 00:19:42:09 - 00:20:07:05 Dr. Kate Aberle Yeah, I appreciate that. I think for, for people that are wanting to to learn a little bit more about what I'm speaking about, there's a group that was just just got off the ground just within the last month called Kingdom Medicine. And this is a Catholic apostolate, but it's open to anybody that's a Christian that wants to to just really be inspired, to be encouraged by other Christian medical professionals. 00:20:07:05 - 00:20:34:05 Dr. Kate Aberle So doctors, nurses, social workers, physical therapists, because most of us, you know, I didn't start medicine praying with patients or having this kind of mindset. It really started for me in 2018. I was, a medical staff at an advent, Adventist hospital. And so we had a physician wellbeing conference, and there were doctors that were there. And at the Adventist system is really, promotes praying with patients. 00:20:34:05 - 00:20:54:22 Dr. Kate Aberle And so I heard a surgeon talk about how he would offer prayer in the pre-op bay. And I thought, oh my goodness, I've been a lifelong Christian, and yet I've never incorporated that in my practice of medicine at all. There's been moments as a surgeon where it's a dicey situation. You're like in that moment, almost in desperation, like, Lord help me, what am I supposed to do, guide my hands, you know, in those in those really difficult moments? 00:20:54:24 - 00:21:13:20 Dr. Kate Aberle But that was the extent of how I prayed for for patients. It was in those challenging OR moments. But I was really inspired by that orthopedic surgeon. And so I started to do that in my practice. And so, for those that want more information, the the organization is, is called Kingdom Medicine, as I mentioned. And their website is kingdommedicine.org. 00:21:14:01 - 00:21:35:10 Dr. Kate Aberle So they're just getting started this month. And I think people can be really encouraged, inspired to just hear other voices. It's intimidating at first. But you can start small and even if it's just a prayer that you pray in your mind before you go into the exam room with that patient, like, okay, Lord, just inspire me with this person that's going to be in front of me. 00:21:35:12 - 00:22:04:14 Dr. Kate Aberle Help me to share the love of Christ through my interaction with this person. But whatever it is from your heart, that's an easy way to really get started. And it's it's nothing that you can say out loud, you know, you can keep it in your heart if you wish, but I know from my own experience that that God really steps up and really shows up in powerful ways when we start to rely on him and not have that burden of self reliance on our shoulders. 00:22:04:16 - 00:22:48:11 Neil Dougherty That's really well said. Kingdommedicine.org. I. I'm sitting here thinking about. My, contribution to prayer over this and I, I pray that there, God will reach out cover our physicians, gather people and bring them to kingdommedicine.org. I, I pray that they they'll be connected with their calling, that they'll be, a release of all these burdens and that crushing weight. 00:22:48:13 - 00:23:11:15 Neil Dougherty And then they can, really, really connect with their patients. Once again, that's we talk about that a lot. And, Justin, you always point out that seven minutes that stack of paperwork, all those things that are in the way. Yeah. I thank you for this today. This is really, really cool. 00:23:11:17 - 00:23:12:15 Dr. Kate Aberle Well, thank you for having me. 00:23:12:17 - 00:23:34:08 Justin Nabity That compassion versus the checkbox medicine is more about trying to provide compassion and love and care for patients and helping them in their greatest need. So I can't wait to see this go for you, Kate. Super excited for you. Thanks for being on and we look forward to keeping up with you as you build this new practice. 00:23:34:10 - 00:23:57:19 Dr. Kate Aberle Yeah, thank you so much. And I just I would say one parting word that I would have for the audience is that, it's really exciting what God can do. And for any person that's inspired to, to incorporate just more reliance upon God, taking that burden off your shoulders and giving it to God, it is so freeing and it is such a privilege to be called to be a physician. 00:23:57:19 - 00:24:18:18 Dr. Kate Aberle And it's I feel so privileged to be able to operate on patients, and it's just so beautiful. And and so I'm really excited for this next chapter in medicine in the United States, because I feel like the page is about to turn or it is turning right now and everything that is broken and soul crushing is going to be gone away. 00:24:18:18 - 00:24:30:09 Dr. Kate Aberle And what's going to be what we're starting the beginning seeds of it right now is something that's going to be refreshing and renewing and just an amazing thing for for our health care industry, I believe. 00:24:30:09 - 00:24:40:00 Justin Nabity It's about bringing heaven on earth. What you're talking about is bringing heaven down to earth. That's let's do it. 00:24:40:02 - 00:24:41:04 Dr. Kate Aberle Amen,. 00:24:41:06 - 00:24:46:12 Neil Dougherty Amen. Thank you for coming on to the show today. 00:24:46:14 - 00:24:47:14 Dr. Kate Aberle Yeah. Thank you. 00:24:47:16 - 00:24:52:01 Justin Nabity Thank you. This has been the DocNation podcast. If you like what you 00:24:52:01 - 00:25:07:11 Justin Nabity heard, be sure to subscribe, rate and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you are listening to us. Your feedback really helps us reach more listeners like you. We'd also love to hear your thoughts and any topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes. Don't forget to follow us on. 00:25:07:11 - 00:25:13:15 Justin Nabity Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn for updates, behind the scenes content, and join the conversation. Thanks for listening.