Spencer Horn 00:11 - 00:43 Welcome everyone to Teams Unleashed. This is the podcast where we explore the art and science of team coaching and how to truly unlock the power and human potential of teams. I'm your host, Spencer Horn, President of Team Coaching International, and this is our inaugural session One of the biggest shifts that is happening in the coaching industry today is this. We are moving from coaching individuals to coaching teams as systems. Spencer Horn 00:43 - 01:02 And today, you're going to hear what that actually looks like in the real world. My guest is Pollyanna. Oh my gosh, Pollyanna, all of a sudden I'm panicking that I'm not going to say your last name right. So I'm going to say Lenkic, but I want to say that. Spencer Horn 01:02 - 01:23 And I'm like, oh, I was going to ask you that. And I'm like, Pollyanna Lenkic is it. I was right, but I was nervous. an experienced team performance coach who has worked with organizations like National Australia Bank, IBM, Telstra, helping teams dramatically improve both culture and results. Spencer Horn 01:24 - 01:55 And in the case today that we're going to talk about, she's worked with two organizations that had come together as one team. But instead of alignment, ta-dum, ta-dum, ta-dum, setting up the mystery here, what they had was cultural tension, unclear roles, low trust, a strong us versus them dynamic. And if you're a coach listening to this, I'm sure you've never seen that before. Or if you're a leader of teams, right, that happens. Spencer Horn 01:56 - 02:12 And here's what's fascinating. The capability was there, but it was buried under the dysfunction. So what Pollyanna did was help them shift from a group of individuals into a true team system. And through that shift, she saw remarkable results. Spencer Horn 02:12 - 02:24 We're gonna share some of those today. They were amazing. Pollyanna, welcome to the show. So glad to have you here and excited to see what comes of our very first show. Pollyanna Lenkic 02:24 - 02:29 It's absolute joy to be here. Thank you so much. Spencer Horn 02:29 - 02:44 Thank you. We were talking earlier just about your journey in coaching. And I'd love to hear, I'd love for you to share with our listeners, what got you into this work? How did your journey start? Spencer Horn 02:44 - 02:47 Tell us a little bit about where this all came from. Pollyanna Lenkic 02:48 - 03:05 You know, Spencer, it's the stars aligned, right? Be careful what you resist in life. set my first company up when I was 24. I was a broke Aussie backpacker landed in London with 40 quid in my pocket, that's 40 pounds, no return ticket home, didn't know anybody. Pollyanna Lenkic 03:05 - 03:26 And this is before the internet, folks. So you got to find your way around somehow. And that was when I was 21, 22. And then when I was 24, I decided it was a really good idea to become a co-founder in an IT specialist recruitment consultancy, specializing in unit trusts, you know, finance, investment management, which I knew nothing about. Pollyanna Lenkic 03:26 - 03:44 But when you're 24, it's a good idea, right? Why not? Took that to a large organization, we ended up with an £11 million turnover, 18 full-time members of staff and 110 consultants throughout the UK. So big learning curve, as you could appreciate, lots of fun and a few tears. Pollyanna Lenkic 03:44 - 04:08 When I left that company, I had the crisis that everyone has. What the hell am I going to do with my life? I'm 34, I tried retiring, but then I was vacuuming and dustproofing my loft and I felt that was not a good thing to be doing with my time. So I fell into, I wrote down what are all the things that I love doing about my job when I had my company. Pollyanna Lenkic 04:09 - 04:22 not the titles, not all the whiz bang, you know, business card, ego stuff, just Monday to Friday, what did I do? How did I live? And what were the things I like doing? And then someone said, that sounds a bit like coaching. Pollyanna Lenkic 04:22 - 04:44 And I'm like, well, what the hell is that? So from there, I spent six months researching what was coaching and found CTI. And that was a long time ago, that was back in 99, right? So walked into my first coaching class and here I am. Spencer Horn 04:45 - 05:02 I absolutely love that exercise that you did, just sitting down and looking at what excites me, what turns me on. You've heard of this saying that if you do what you love, you never have to work a day in your life, which is a load of crock. Pollyanna Lenkic 05:02 - 05:04 Oh my God, so yes, so rubbish. Spencer Horn 05:04 - 05:19 Such a rubbish statement. I didn't know if you thought, we're thinking, oh, what's he going to say? This is going to be some cheesy. But the problem is, do what you love so you can put up with all the stuff that you hate. Spencer Horn 05:19 - 05:23 Because no matter what you do, there's going to be challenges. Pollyanna Lenkic 05:23 - 05:36 Yeah, and also, how do you want to live? I didn't have the frameworks or the language that I now have. given the coach training that I've had the absolute privilege to take part in. But how do you want to live? Pollyanna Lenkic 05:36 - 05:52 So I skydived. And, you know, in England, in London, based in Australia, as you know, back then in the 90s, people just went to the pub at 11 o'clock and kept drinking. Well, I'm really bad at that. And all of my clients were a good 10 years older than me and male. Pollyanna Lenkic 05:52 - 06:00 So I went That's not my gig. It's not what I want to do. It's not where I felt comfortable. All fabulous people, but not what I wanted to do. Pollyanna Lenkic 06:01 - 06:12 So I thought, well, why don't I just get a hop on the traffic and drive to the airfield and get three jumps in before the sun sets on a Friday? Isn't that a better idea? So part of that thing isn't just about what you want to do. It's how you want to live. Pollyanna Lenkic 06:13 - 06:24 How do you want to live? Well, I want to live with a four-day week before someone wrote a book about it. So how do you want to live is a really important consideration. What do you wanna do to make that happen? Spencer Horn 06:25 - 06:48 Well, so you got into coaching and you met folks at CTI and you happened to meet then I understand the founder of another coaching company called Team Coaching International. Can you tell us about, what are the differences you notice in say executive coaching, individual coaching and what got you into the team or the systemic coaching side of that? Pollyanna Lenkic 06:49 - 07:23 The both are incredibly powerful, as you know, but they fit for purpose. What I loved about the team coaching is it gave my clients results that individual coaching didn't give. And added to the fact that the team leader or the sponsor of the team becomes part of the team in the process is a game changer. So I could then have something for my clients that genuinely, truly provided results. Pollyanna Lenkic 07:23 - 07:33 So much so that I got a little bit carried away, Spencer, you'll laugh at this. I designed a logo saying 100% money back guarantee, right? Because I got so excited. I offer that to my clients. Pollyanna Lenkic 07:33 - 07:50 I say, you know, I will give you give you your money back 100%. No questions asked. If after, you know, if you're not completely satisfied with the results you're getting. You know, to have a process where you can have that much conviction. Pollyanna Lenkic 07:51 - 08:07 And the reason I have that conviction is how robust this process is. It's so robust. So you're talking about the biggest shift in coaching in the industry, systems coaching, systems thinking. TCI been doing that for how long? Spencer Horn 08:07 - 08:09 20 years this year. Pollyanna Lenkic 08:09 - 08:30 20 years, yeah. So I was one of the early adopters of, because I was very privileged and blessed to know Phil. But so for 20 years, there's data, hard data that shows that this work works. And not only that, when your clients, this is the bit I love, I love so much about it, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 08:30 - 08:46 But what I love the most, at the end of a session, my clients, the people in that room, they go home. They don't have to run back to their office to catch up on all the work that they haven't done because we're doing the work While we're working on the team. Spencer Horn 08:46 - 09:03 Right in the team coaching. And that's just brilliant. I know just from the few interactions I've had with you that you are, and just even from your story right now, you're very results oriented. There's not a lot of fluff in the sense that, you know, don't, don't, don't give me rubbish. Spencer Horn 09:03 - 09:26 Get, let's get to the point. Let's, let's get to win. Let's get to success. And when Phil and Alexis, and really 20 years ago when they went to the coaching federation meetings and said, hey, we want to do this team coaching idea, she tells me that they looked at them like they were wearing foil hats, which we always do coaching individually. Spencer Horn 09:26 - 09:47 And you can create some shift in organizations working with all the individuals and then hopefully they shift the system. But nothing shifts a system faster than working with it all at once. Executive teams, intact teams, working with them you can make in a day, a day and a half. My favorite is a day and a half, two days. Spencer Horn 09:47 - 10:12 You come away with work done, action plans, how we're going to work, how we're going to solve problems. It's just so, so amazing. And I love to hear that you have such great confidence. I mean, I put it on my website, you're going to see a minimum improvement of 20% and I've seen financial results in a short period of time of up to 50% improvement in financial results just because of the work that we did. Spencer Horn 10:12 - 10:29 And we measure pre and post in terms of performance and engagement. And I love that because we can say, here's where you are now, and here's where you are after working with us. And I love that. Well, let's dive into your, I'm sorry, you were going to say something. Pollyanna Lenkic 10:29 - 10:40 Yeah, and I think that's a really important point, right? And for me, it's conviction, right? You know, everyone loves a bit of confidence, but what about walking in the room when you're not feeling confident? Spencer Horn 10:40 - 10:40 Yeah. Pollyanna Lenkic 10:40 - 11:03 and it's early days, you've just trained on TCI, you're excited and you go, oh my God, you know, you don't need confidence, like forget it. Like we've seen what overconfidence does in the world, right? What we wanna do is you can stand in the process, the process works, right? That is gold for the practitioner and gold for the client. Pollyanna Lenkic 11:04 - 11:18 And there's nowhere to hide, people. Nowhere to hide. When you've got a tricky team and they've got tricky situations, usually three o'clock day one, they attack the facilitator. Don't be scared, people. Pollyanna Lenkic 11:18 - 11:27 It doesn't always happen. But what happens is it becomes too much. The discomfort becomes too much, right? And you're trained for that in the TCI system. Pollyanna Lenkic 11:27 - 11:35 You know how to Meet that. It's true. I said to my clients, three o'clock day one, this is going to happen. It's all right. Pollyanna Lenkic 11:35 - 11:37 I've got it. Right. Spencer Horn 11:37 - 11:42 I love, I love that. So, so you're going to, you're telling them it's going to, it's going to get, it's going to get ugly before it gets better. Pollyanna Lenkic 11:43 - 11:58 Yeah. Three o'clock after lunch, right? Graveyard shift. And what happens is you respectfully remind the team, this is their results as they have defined it through a robust system and the good news. Pollyanna Lenkic 11:58 - 12:04 We can shift this. Teams have been here before. This is why we're here. This is why we're doing the work. Pollyanna Lenkic 12:06 - 12:10 You know, it's for you, by you. Oh my God, I get tingles. It's magical. Spencer Horn 12:10 - 12:29 I love that. I have a friend that trusted me, Pollyanna, and she's a brilliant coach, very strong, wonderful person, just like you. I mean, you remind me a lot, just the qualities you have, just this confidence. And she worked for GE as an executive, and she has been coaching high net worth individuals. Spencer Horn 12:29 - 12:48 And she's just like, I met her at a National Speakers Association gala, and she's like, man, what do you do? I said, well, I work with teams. and among other things, and she says, I just have never found a way to get teams to work well together. I said, you need to do this. Spencer Horn 12:48 - 13:05 So she's certified last month, and she is doing her first diagnostic. She's waiting for one or two people to finish that diagnostic, and then she and I are talking tomorrow. So if you're there, Kimberly, I'll talk to you tomorrow. She is gonna be doing her first. Spencer Horn 13:04 - 13:16 I'm so excited for her to do this and follow the process, and when you do it, magic will happen. So let's talk about this challenging situation that you have. Describe it. What was going on? Spencer Horn 13:16 - 13:26 And I know you have case studies written, and I don't know if it's okay to talk about who it is, but if not, I mean, describe what kinds of... Yeah. Pollyanna Lenkic 13:26 - 13:36 So it's really unusual, and I'm very grateful for these two organizations to engage in this case study. Because it's unusual to have a client put their name on a case study. Spencer Horn 13:37 - 13:46 So they kind of say, hey, we have this dysfunction. You know, a lot of times people don't want to have that vulnerability. We were dysfunctional. It's refreshing that they will be willing to do it. Pollyanna Lenkic 13:47 - 14:10 So here's the thing, this was a while ago, this case study, and it's not unusual, right? What is unusual was the generosity of the clients to put the time and energy into the case study, because they can't always, right? For many, many reasons. These leaders, in particular, one of the leaders is now CEO of another organization, has gone through this process, I think about five times. Pollyanna Lenkic 14:10 - 14:23 Each time she gets a new job, wheels me in, We do a team process, sets everything up, right? I'm exit stage left. Next time they, she gets a new role, wheels me in, right? So this person is, you can run this, you can run this yourself at some point. Pollyanna Lenkic 14:23 - 14:52 So that there's longevity in this process, but for this team, two organizations, not-for-profit dealing with people who are financially vulnerable, very caring, just amazing, beautiful human beings. and based at the trendy, funky side of town, and then you've got the corporate bank. Beautiful human beings, but they look different, right? Spencer Horn 14:52 - 14:53 Totally different views of the world. Pollyanna Lenkic 14:54 - 14:58 Well, no. No? So you would think. That's an assumption, right? Spencer Horn 14:59 - 15:00 I am making an assumption. Pollyanna Lenkic 15:00 - 15:28 You are, there you go. So you get into a room, and so the way the bank provided funding for the not-for-profits shifted, rather than saying, here's a bunch of money from our corporate responsibility team, you know, team would had organized this partnership, so that we can help do good in the world, right. But the difference is, you will work together with some of our team members. Right, that was really new. Pollyanna Lenkic 15:28 - 15:52 And so you've got you the first day was just I just remember, it's first day, we've got all the not for profit from Good Shepherd Microfinance in one corner. and all the NAB people in another quarter. And I walked up to the two leaders, and I'd worked with the GM of the bank before and a team process, which is how she knew. So this was her second team process. Pollyanna Lenkic 15:52 - 16:03 And I said, Look, she goes, What do you think? I went, You're either going to break it, or it's going to be brilliant. So I said, I don't know yet. I'm not a gambling person, but I reckon 50-50, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 16:04 - 16:06 And they, it was- I love that, but no promises. Spencer Horn 16:06 - 16:10 Listen, it's really on them, right? I'm going to do my best, but the rest is up to you. Pollyanna Lenkic 16:11 - 16:34 Yeah, I've got that refund thing, so all good, right? Right. So, but really this was the one that locked in the conviction for me because the moment, the moment, so they, not-for-profit team thought that the corporate team were just soulless, different from us. you're just money grabbing, money making. Pollyanna Lenkic 16:34 - 16:37 And they've all said this, it's in their case state, right? So I'm not speaking out of turn. Spencer Horn 16:37 - 16:39 So they made the same assumptions that I was making. Pollyanna Lenkic 16:40 - 16:52 They were doing exactly what you did, right? They're looking at how they were dressed, the color of their hair, you know? Yeah. You know, one had funky sneakers on and one had, you know, high heels and, you know, brogues or whatever, whatever the dudes were wearing, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 16:53 - 17:04 So it's really interesting. They couldn't see the values or the value that each bought. right? Because we looked different. Pollyanna Lenkic 17:06 - 17:15 You guys, we just need your money. But you know, can you just get lost? And you guys over there, you're really efficient, inefficient. So if you just got more efficient, we could work better together. Pollyanna Lenkic 17:16 - 17:31 There was a moment on day three o'clock day, day, day one, it did go. And then we work with that, right, we meet it. There was a moment the next morning at around 10, 11 a.m., I'll never forget it. You know when you feel the air change when you're in a room? Pollyanna Lenkic 17:32 - 17:45 It just went. And one of the team members from Good Shepherd, Mike Fines, oh, seriously, I just get tingles every time I think about this moment. It's etched in my brain. She looked up and she went, oh my God, we want the same thing. Pollyanna Lenkic 17:46 - 17:58 We care about the same things. We're just coming at it from different angles. I've just read a book called Moral Ambition, stick it on your list, it's great. I can't remember the author now, a chap from the Netherlands. Pollyanna Lenkic 17:58 - 18:30 And it talks about when you want to make waves and do good in the world, you need a variety of people to do this with, right? And that was the real reason. We realized that we needed each other beyond just funding to do good in the world. But when I spoke to the GM of Good Shepherd after we did this case study, He said, not only are we working as a team and more effective together, the ripple effect in our organization, we are more efficient. Pollyanna Lenkic 18:30 - 19:02 One of the NAB team members saved six weeks a quarter, six weeks, and we calculated that against rough-ish his salary. That was $30,000 saved and six weeks back in his diary because his counterpart at Good Shepherd Microfinance They now had a more efficient working relationship because this chap at NAB was incredibly efficient with his process. His counterpart was not. They combined resources, processes, they shared in a way. Pollyanna Lenkic 19:02 - 19:16 And he got so much from the other team member, how to connect, how to connect with the work, the ripple effect of that work, why it matters. You know, what do they say? Privilege is invisible to those who have it. whoever said that. Pollyanna Lenkic 19:16 - 19:31 So his eyes were opened to a world that he didn't quite grasp. It was just beautiful. So the ripple effect of this work doesn't stop. That's the magic of it. Spencer Horn 19:31 - 20:04 I love this story so much on so many levels. You know, here's this underlying dynamic of just judging, literally a perspective of another team that is blocking you from working and learning from somebody who has cognitive diversity. You know, you may look different, you may dress different, you may be, there's so many different types of diversity. But as soon as they were able to drop that judgment, they were able to create unity. Spencer Horn 20:05 - 20:18 They were able to create a team. They were able then to appreciate the brilliance of each other. And when that happens, I mean, that just, first of all, it takes humility, right? Just to say, hey, somebody might know something more than me. Spencer Horn 20:19 - 20:27 Isn't that wonderful? Now I can learn from them and life can be easier. If we just get out of the way. Pollyanna Lenkic 20:28 - 20:37 More effective. They, they created a positive ripple effect. They got more funding. More people were helped. Pollyanna Lenkic 20:37 - 20:48 Right? The focus moved away from differences. But team, team coaching and the process that TCI bring isn't about, isn't solely about learning. It's about unlearning. Spencer Horn 20:49 - 21:05 100%. And that's what, that's the dynamic that had to change, that the unlearning of how we work together. But I want to point out something that you just brought up. What is the first really assumption that we make in working with teams? Spencer Horn 21:05 - 21:25 The first assumption that TCI talks about is that what is the purpose for a team? It's to produce results. And it doesn't matter if it's a non-profit because the results of that non-profit are more loans in the community, more people helped. It doesn't matter if it's a government agency because again, it's more services for the community. Spencer Horn 21:25 - 21:48 Whatever the result is, our belief is that teams exist to produce that. And more of it, and the more we can do that, the greater ripples and the greater impact we can have. Now, I'm curious, when that shift happened the second day, we teach our coaches to really understand the energetic field. What did you do with that? Spencer Horn 21:49 - 21:55 How did you help them see that? Or did they see it on their own? Were you able to help them become more aware when that shift happened? Pollyanna Lenkic 21:57 - 22:04 The room just went silent. And as a coach, you've got to get out of the way. Yeah. So I just let it unfold. Pollyanna Lenkic 22:04 - 22:11 I always, we work in a circle. I also use large graphic charts. I custom large. Spencer Horn 22:11 - 22:17 You sent me one of the whole plans. It's like four foot by six foot for the wall. I love it. Pollyanna Lenkic 22:19 - 22:34 And so I had a, so we were standing up around doing some charts around values and stuff. I step back, right? So when there is a circle, we don't want to create dependency in the system. If you're new to team coaching, that will be part of your training. Pollyanna Lenkic 22:35 - 22:54 So the biggest mistake I feel that we as coaches make is when we think we've got the answers. We don't have the answers. We hold the container. We have a robust process based on research, based on data, based on successes for 20 years, but you have to step back. Pollyanna Lenkic 22:55 - 23:14 So when that happened, I just stepped back and let them all get on with it. And the conversation from memory, the conversation was, you know, good half an hour, 40 minutes, and you just spin those plates, right? When there's a pause, and it feels okay, you come in, you do a thought starter, a prompter, and then you step back again. Spencer Horn 23:14 - 23:25 So I use- We call that, those of you listening, we call that spin and fade. You get the conversation started, you step in, and then step out and let them take over. That's a brilliant, and you did it so well. And I love that. Spencer Horn 23:26 - 23:52 We do not have to have the answers. It's so often, Pollyanna, I mean, I have lots of friends that are consultants. And so it is a big mindset shift for them to come and do this work because they feel like, We're paid to give you answers, to solve your problems. That is one of the other things that we really believe of teams, that the answers actually exist within them. Spencer Horn 23:52 - 24:01 They have it within them to solve their own problems. And so teams are naturally whole, right? I mean, in many ways. Pollyanna Lenkic 24:02 - 24:12 And this team were capable. These, these were senior people. They were capable. What they needed was to have the system revealed to itself. Pollyanna Lenkic 24:12 - 24:26 It's another TCI phrase. So let's reveal what's happening. And let's meet that. And here's a framework on how, you know, robust team agreements up front, the setup, which is all in the training, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 24:26 - 24:41 Really robust setup. Because you're going to need it at 3 o'clock on day one, right, at times. But that container that is created, we just hold that for them and give them frameworks. And it's a lot of fun. Pollyanna Lenkic 24:41 - 24:55 It doesn't have to be miserable work, by the way. I mean, I have a ball. I mean, there was one point with this team where they were stuck on decision making. And there was a decision they'd been cycling around for 6-7 months and were at the corporate office running a team coaching session. Pollyanna Lenkic 24:55 - 25:02 And they couldn't make the decision. I said, well, where are you at? And we're like, we're 80%. Then I'm like, well, just start talking about it. Pollyanna Lenkic 25:02 - 25:15 Let's, you know, observe what's happening. And so you observe what's happening and you observe the hamster wheel and the avoidance and no one's making a decision, all the usual garden variety, human stuff, right? In high stakes decisions. So you pull out a framework, you know, it doesn't matter. Pollyanna Lenkic 25:16 - 25:24 Actually, it doesn't matter which one. And I know this, some of my friends who do this work get really annoyed with me when I go, actually doesn't matter which framework you use. Spencer Horn 25:24 - 25:26 Oh, well, no, you have to use this one. Pollyanna Lenkic 25:26 - 25:32 Yeah, because it's the conversation and the pattern interrupt that comes with that, right? Spencer Horn 25:32 - 25:37 But I think it works for you because you actually do trust the team is going to get there. Pollyanna Lenkic 25:38 - 25:47 Yeah, and if they're not, We've got tools to use. So in the end, I said, so all you have to do is test your message. Oh, look, it's lunchtime. There's a whole bunch of people in the kitchen. Pollyanna Lenkic 25:47 - 26:04 I'm going to go out and get 10 of them. And you've got 30 seconds to prepare your message to test it with an audience. And I just walked out because there's a whole bunch of your senior leaders in there, and they need to test a message. All you have to do is go, zero, got no idea what the hell you're talking about, or 10, I get it. Pollyanna Lenkic 26:05 - 26:10 And then just go back to lunch. Who's up for it? Well, Stampede, everyone's up for it, right? So we had about 20 people in the room in the end. Pollyanna Lenkic 26:10 - 26:16 And I'm like, right, team, go. And they tested their message. They got twos, threes, and ones. I'm like, thank you. Pollyanna Lenkic 26:16 - 26:20 Thank you for the folks. They went out. They did it again. I got them back in. Pollyanna Lenkic 26:20 - 26:29 Now no one's leaving the lunchroom, right? And I just said, come on back in. And so they came back in. They did the message again. Pollyanna Lenkic 26:29 - 26:38 And they got a 10. And they're like, oh, no. Well, we'll park this now until we can talk to the CEO. I'm like, OK, who in the room would the CEO pick the phone up to? Pollyanna Lenkic 26:39 - 26:55 And the CFO went, well, that'd be me. I might as well get on the phone then. Call him and do what you need to do. So that six month decision was done with laughter, fun, and it was nailed in half an hour, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 26:55 - 26:58 So they had a ball. Spencer Horn 27:03 - 27:05 I told you I'd accidentally cut you off. I didn't mean to. Pollyanna Lenkic 27:05 - 27:08 I thought I'd need that because I've got a bit of a cold, so that was good timing. Spencer Horn 27:09 - 27:25 So there's a couple of things that really stood out. First of all, it's what you said in the beginning, is you're actually doing the work. We're not just coaching and getting everybody to sing kumbaya like we were talking before the show came on. We are teaching them how to work. Spencer Horn 27:25 - 27:48 And it looked at it another way. In many cases, the team is capable, but they have learned helplessness. And so you are there to basically say, here, you actually have the capability and let me show it to you. So you undo that, that's the unlearning that you're talking about, the learned helplessness that needs to be unlearned. Spencer Horn 27:48 - 27:53 And as soon as they do that, it's fun for them, which is why it's fun for us. Pollyanna Lenkic 27:54 - 27:58 It's fun, it's fun. Dysfunction doesn't have to be terrible, right? Spencer Horn 27:58 - 28:01 Dysfunction makes so much fun for all of us. Pollyanna Lenkic 28:01 - 28:13 And be respectful. I'm not, you know, there's times when you hold the space in a very respectful way. That team, we'd worked together for a while, it was okay. I mean, they were a bit confronted by it at first, but they'd been working with me for six, seven months. Pollyanna Lenkic 28:13 - 28:29 And it was good. I mean, I worked with the team recently, and they had 37 public policy items to nail. And we did it in a day using the process, right? They didn't have the budget for a full team process. Pollyanna Lenkic 28:29 - 28:45 We did the diagnostic. We did a one-day debrief, and then they said, we actually just need to get through these policies and get it to the minister. We have to do it. 37 policies, and there was something like three or four sub-items underneath each one. Pollyanna Lenkic 28:46 - 28:48 They all went home and had dinner with their family that night. Spencer Horn 28:48 - 29:15 OK, so we're going to talk about ROI in just a second here. But that tells me that in a day, they are getting just a huge return on the time investment that they spend with you. And I'm wondering if coaches are listening to this and they're saying, wow, this is a threat to my ongoing coaching fees that I charge for individuals. If I can fix their problems in one day, it's like they're not going to need me. Spencer Horn 29:17 - 29:20 It just came to my mind. I don't know if that's a question that somebody might be asking. Pollyanna Lenkic 29:21 - 29:27 Gosh, that's a good question. Here's the thing. You do your job well, they don't need you anymore. I'm really clear on that. Pollyanna Lenkic 29:28 - 29:32 Right? But they do refer you. Yeah. So do your job well. Spencer Horn 29:32 - 29:36 Because what percentage, in your experience, what percentage of teams have it all together? Pollyanna Lenkic 29:39 - 30:02 It's not about having it all together. It's about, we live in a world, and the people I work with, like the senior leaders that I work with, same as you, they are under intense pressure. They have the skills, they have the capability, they don't often have the space to work through what they need to work through. So it's taking out the noise in the system so they can focus and get clarity on what they need to work on together. Pollyanna Lenkic 30:04 - 30:25 And sometimes it is a capability uplift. Sometimes it's a framework that does elevate some capability. You're pulling something from a leadership program that you did in the moment because that fits You've always got stuff in your back pocket as a, as a facilitator and coach. You know, we don't do one thing, you know, I run leadership programs, I run team processes, I facilitate, you do strategy. Pollyanna Lenkic 30:26 - 30:38 So you just stick, get something out of your back pocket and go, Actually, I'm going off-piste for a moment. And we're going to do this because this serves the team. So when you serve the team, it's not about you. Right? Pollyanna Lenkic 30:38 - 30:54 If you create dependency in a system, then I'd have issue with that. because that's not serving the team, it's not serving the client. Build capability so that they don't need you. And then when they get a new job, they get you back in again. Spencer Horn 30:55 - 31:05 I'm co-coaching a client with Peter Hoard. I don't know if you know who he is from Sweden. One of our TCI coaches who's been with us for many, many years. He's a brilliant coach. Spencer Horn 31:05 - 31:36 Anyway, we're working with a major client, number one airline in the world. And preparing for this team coaching engagement, I think we edited our agenda eight times. And then after the first day, this was a two-day retreat with them, we had edited it six more times. Just because we're dancing with what's showing up and we need to say, okay, we need to adjust this. Spencer Horn 31:36 - 31:59 We need to do this because of what there is. So you come with a plan, but you have so many tools in your back pocket that you can really, really adjust. I just read, it was I think April 9th, that Gallup reported the new management engagement data. I don't know if you've seen that. Spencer Horn 31:59 - 32:14 And I think the data was for North America. So I know we have people all over the world. You're in Australia. But engagement for managers went from 2022 to from 31% to 22% in 2025. Spencer Horn 32:14 - 32:25 And part of the reasons are just what you are talking about. They don't have the space to think. They're taking on so much responsibility. Think about AI implementation, for example. Spencer Horn 32:26 - 32:41 Individually, it's improving productivity, but the complexity of implementing it is really on a lot of management's shoulders right now. Figuring out how to work it. Teams are spread out. You're doing more with less. Spencer Horn 32:41 - 33:01 And so the anxiety and the stress and the pressure from above and below on management is huge. And so what you're saying is that even the best of teams that have all the resources need someone that can help move the needle with them. Pollyanna Lenkic 33:01 - 33:30 Yeah, benefit. And when you think back to the case study, which was, you know, we've been sort of focusing on a little bit, one of the things that had to shift was the two GMs who were like the, I used to call them the two-headed leader of that team. They were parenting their team, right? rather than leading the team, because they were, they were having to, everything was escalated up, you know, everything, conflict, misunderstandings, challenges. Pollyanna Lenkic 33:30 - 33:56 So one of the things that I, part of that process was to support them to use a coaching approach to get their team members to resolve it themselves. So a big part of the process was teaching the team to be, to level up to their skillset, to have the conversations that needed to happen. That's why constructive interaction was such an important uplift for this team, because they didn't know how to do it, right? Spencer Horn 33:56 - 34:10 So once we came up- Will you describe that to people? Because that's a competency that we're aware of in team coaching, but constructive interaction, describe what that means and why that's typically something that a lot of teams really struggle with. Pollyanna Lenkic 34:11 - 34:50 Yeah, look, and it depends on where you're coming from. You know, really, we had to get them, if you're familiar with below the line, above the line behaviours, we needed to get to above the line behaviours. And how do you have a conversation when we are in absolute disagreement, we feel there's a values clash, everything you're saying to me, I want to, you know, push back on, you know, how do you have those conversations? Well, some people will avoid, some people will come out fighting, some people, so bringing the conversations into the room rather than in the corridors afterwards. Pollyanna Lenkic 34:51 - 35:06 And so it's a skill and it's a big conversation. And the good thing is it'll be part of your training when you do the TCR training. So teaching the team to sit in the discomfort. What do humans dislike the most? Pollyanna Lenkic 35:06 - 35:11 Discomfort. Why has change such a big challenge? It's not the change itself. It's not the process. Pollyanna Lenkic 35:11 - 35:30 It's the discomfort. And as humans, we, the great royal we, we will do anything to avoid discomfort. You know, from avoidance to those below the line behaviors, to being ignited from past situations and using the energy of that in this situation. you know, there's so much. Pollyanna Lenkic 35:31 - 35:46 And then obviously, in its extreme, there's addiction, you know, what's that's numbing, right? So we numb. So teaching the team to sit together in discomfort was a really important part of this process. And I mean, just beautiful, amazing humans who went with it. Pollyanna Lenkic 35:46 - 36:04 Literally, I had them sit in discomfort. What's the most uncomfortable thing you could say right now, in this team that you'd be happy to say one on one for the person that you're really have good rapport with and feel safe with, who's willing to speak that into this system right now relevant to what we're talking about? Spencer Horn 36:05 - 36:06 What happened when you did that? Pollyanna Lenkic 36:07 - 36:30 We sat in silence for eight minutes. Do you know what it's like to hold the space for eight minutes excruciating. So that's where you have to know as a coach, when do you sit and hold the space monitoring that arc So you pick it up before it goes down the cliff, right? So we sat in the space, eight minutes, just sat there and I just held the space. Spencer Horn 36:30 - 36:39 And we felt it. I love that so much, Pollyanna. So many people would feel uncomfortable, like I'm failing as a coach. I'm not, nothing is happening, but huge movement is happening. Pollyanna Lenkic 36:41 - 36:47 And here's the thing, you feel all that. You go, oh my God, am I doing the right thing? Yeah. You know, you do. Spencer Horn 36:47 - 36:50 Imposter syndrome, oh, they're gonna fire me. Pollyanna Lenkic 36:51 - 36:57 I'm failing my client. So get out of self. That's when you know as a coach you're in self. Yes, exactly. Pollyanna Lenkic 36:57 - 37:16 And when you're in self, get out of self, focus on other, focus on the system, just do the process in your own mind. Before any process, any coaching client, any systems process, before anything, what do you do? You prepare yourself, right? So it's not just about being in the room. Pollyanna Lenkic 37:17 - 37:26 It's not just the timeline. It's how do you prepare yourself emotionally? to meet the team and do the work that needs to be done for the team. All right. Pollyanna Lenkic 37:26 - 37:45 So the ARC felt uncomfortable, stayed with the team until, and someone did speak. And they just said, I'm going to give it a go. And everyone else's job, really tight boundaries. Everyone else's job was to hear and sit with it before anyone spoke. Pollyanna Lenkic 37:47 - 37:56 It was just amazing. They were amazing. They are, this team are in my heart forever. I mean, I still, you know, see them all at various new organizations. Pollyanna Lenkic 37:56 - 38:09 But they were courageous, right? Humans, we talk about, you know, coaching concepts around, you know, as, you know, hold them as creative, resourceful and whole. That's what it means. Right? Spencer Horn 38:21 - 38:36 That is, it is exactly what it means. You know one of the ways that I've address that is actually creating an agreement around disagreement. How do we disagree? How are we going to behave? Spencer Horn 38:36 - 39:01 Who needs what? And to make it feel safe, just like we do in the very beginning with teams, that's a process or process, depending on where you're from, that you can do at any time is let's create an agreement. How are we going to be with each other in terms of, So constructive interaction is really about how do you disagree? How do you look at different perspectives? Spencer Horn 39:01 - 39:17 And it's one that many teams struggle with, and it's so important. The other one that you focused on that they struggled with, as you said, the managers were parenting, and that tied closely to accountability. Yes, how did you address that? Pollyanna Lenkic 39:18 - 39:30 Well, accountability was really lacking on the team because there was a lot of blame in the system. So think about those Gottman behaviors, you know, lots of blame. So we unearthed all the blame first. What does blame look like in this team? Pollyanna Lenkic 39:30 - 39:43 What does contempt look like in this team? Because there were seeds of contempt. And there was a moment where the team's going, no, there's no contempt in this, in our team, in our system. And I'm like, you know, that eye roll that just happened like 30 seconds ago, that's the seeds off, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 39:43 - 39:57 So full-blown contempt, as we know, And I've worked with teams where there's been full-blown contempt and that team can't carry on the way it is, right? It's beyond repair in its current form that happens. Spencer Horn 39:58 - 40:10 So for this team- And I love that we address those toxins in, you know, that is one of the most dangerous toxin if it's sustained, right? And if they're not admitting it, then obviously it has the ability to stay in the system. Pollyanna Lenkic 40:11 - 40:20 So we're in the quad of the, you know, the Gottman, you know, Blame, Contempt, Stoicism. We're in that quad. We were there for an hour and a half, right? Spencer Horn 40:20 - 40:21 Oh my goodness. Pollyanna Lenkic 40:21 - 40:28 Yeah, they were there. They were there. I did give them chocolate brownies. So they were there for an hour and a half, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 40:29 - 40:36 Talking about what does it look like in this team? What does it sound like? What's the impact of that? How does it feel? Pollyanna Lenkic 40:37 - 40:44 All the senses. We mapped it out for Blame. We mapped it out for contempt. We mapped it out for stonewalling. Pollyanna Lenkic 40:45 - 40:46 Yeah, mapped it out. Spencer Horn 40:47 - 41:10 And then we know. So if you're listening, please envision this. We put a quad on the floor, just a simple Y, X axis. And in each of those four quadrants, We put one of Dr. John Gottman's toxins, the four toxins of relationships or the apocalypse, what are they? Spencer Horn 41:10 - 41:16 Stonewalling, blame, contempt, and defensiveness, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 41:16 - 41:27 So will blame and defensiveness go together? What's the other one? I see now I've gone blank. I know this model so well. Pollyanna Lenkic 41:29 - 41:32 Blame, contempt, stonewalling. Criticism? Is it criticism? Spencer Horn 41:32 - 41:48 Criticism is the same as blame, I thought, yeah. So here we are, so we have to prepare ourselves going in the class and I hear I didn't even prepare, we're just asking off the, this is the wonderful thing about going live. Pollyanna Lenkic 41:49 - 41:54 No, and you don't have to remember a thing. I've only been running this model for 20 years, so you can have facilitated based. Spencer Horn 41:54 - 41:55 Yeah, geez. Pollyanna Lenkic 41:58 - 42:10 I also have a big poster of the Apocalypse of the Four Horsemen, you know, in a thing. So it's all, you know, it's up there. Look, you can look it up, right? It's all good. Pollyanna Lenkic 42:10 - 42:20 But the important bit that I've added is I have a flip, right? So how do you get out of that? So I have a flip Spencer Horn 42:21 - 42:25 It's criticism and blame, it's criticism and blame, it's defensiveness is by itself. Pollyanna Lenkic 42:26 - 42:34 And then stonewalling, and then, yep, yep. Yeah, so have the flip model. So don't just leave them there, right? Because that's not much fun. Spencer Horn 42:34 - 42:35 No. Pollyanna Lenkic 42:35 - 42:53 Don't do it, right? So have the flip, you know, instead of, you know, what would be more constructive. So you're leading the witnesses to, you know, when you've, it's like any sort of bias we hold. It's hard to remove it. Pollyanna Lenkic 42:53 - 42:58 Think about all those limiting beliefs. Hard to remove it. There are limiting beliefs in the system. Hard to remove it. Pollyanna Lenkic 42:58 - 43:08 When it comes, acknowledge it, and then go, what's the alternative behavior approach? Much easier. So I give them a flip model to move forward. Spencer Horn 43:09 - 43:45 I have a question for you. When you're in that toxins quad, and maybe they're a little bit reluctant, what would your, Recommendation be for a coach to maybe set the example and say because I I personally Owned that I can be I can do contempt and I get defensive. So I like I straddle I'm like these are both if I'm honest, these are the two that I that I fall into Do you ever you know set the example and say hey, it's okay to be honest. I And here are mine. Pollyanna Lenkic 43:45 - 43:54 ...human condition. Welcome to the, my favorite phrase is, Welcome to the human condition. You know, it's just part of being human. We choose whether we act from there. Pollyanna Lenkic 43:55 - 44:11 So I give a team example. I don't give a personal example, because I want to keep them in the team state. I do say, this is worthy work to do on your own. And for the purpose of us working together, we're going to look at what it looks like in the system, in the team. Spencer Horn 44:11 - 44:25 For the system. Excellent. So this is, so this is a great point, because sometimes what will happen is that people get confused, because they're like, Well, this is what I do. And you are keeping it only at the system level. Spencer Horn 44:25 - 44:27 And I think that is, that's great. Pollyanna Lenkic 44:28 - 44:36 So for coaches listening, you know, have stuff in your back pocket. And you know, I love that back pocket. It's a bit bulky, isn't it, the back pocket? But have examples. Pollyanna Lenkic 44:36 - 44:48 That's part of your prepared spontaneity, right? I love prepared spontaneity. I skydived for 15 years, and we, before every jump, we did 15-minute emergency drills just in case, right? Eight jumps a day was my happy place. Pollyanna Lenkic 44:49 - 45:04 So that's 15 minutes times eight, right? So it's similar. Prepared spontaneity saves you when you need it. Have all those extra things that you might need on a prepared spontaneity timeline that you may not ever use, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 45:05 - 45:08 But have it there in your back pocket. Spencer Horn 45:08 - 45:27 That's what that means. Yeah, that's wonderful. Pauliana, talk about how the team diagnostic helped you create awareness and buy-in, especially when maybe the team that was initially resistant. So for those of you who are listening, we have a diagnostic where the team measures where they are on productivity and positivity. Spencer Horn 45:27 - 45:53 There's 14 elements that really enable us to dive into at multiple layers. So how does it help you create awareness and buy-in, especially when they might be resistant? And then the second question is, how nervous are they to actually see their results before, as you start? Does that add to the three o'clock pushback a little bit? Pollyanna Lenkic 45:56 - 46:19 Yes, to all of that. It depends on the team, of course. So ensuring that you're not making up assumptions about the team when you review the results is a really important factor. You know, so ensure, yeah, we always prepare, we look at the results before we go in, and then you know, it's a bit like your timelines, prepare, prepare, prepare, then throw it over your shoulder and work with the room, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 46:19 - 46:36 So it's a measured process. It's a game changer for the value you give to your clients. A lot of people have had frustrating experiences with team days, right? It's all happy and nothing changed. Pollyanna Lenkic 46:36 - 46:53 Connection is really important. The World Health Organization has deemed loneliness is the biggest health epidemic of our times, right? So connection is important, but a coin minted on one side has no currency. Friend of mine, Gunter Svoboda, shared that quote with me, and I love it. Pollyanna Lenkic 46:53 - 47:07 Thank you, Gunter. So a coin minted on one side has no currency. What makes this powerful is we connect lift engagement positivity traits, right, if you know the model. And then you have productivity traits. Pollyanna Lenkic 47:08 - 47:17 The magic is in the intersection of the two. I think the two side of Ben can solve most problems. So therefore, it's a measured process. It's not guesswork. Pollyanna Lenkic 47:18 - 47:36 It has 20 years of robust results behind it. When you sit with a team leader and you say, if they have had Circumstances where they've done a team session and nothing's changed. Talk about that. What was missing? Pollyanna Lenkic 47:36 - 47:42 What happened? What was frustrating about it? Well, here's how this is different. We measure the system. Pollyanna Lenkic 47:43 - 47:53 It holds up a mirror to the team. There's nowhere to hide from this. Sometimes I say that, sometimes I don't, depending on who I'm talking to and how nervous they are, right? But there is nowhere to hide. Pollyanna Lenkic 47:53 - 48:15 And it's not just a mirror, it's data. against 14 key team strengths based on robust global research. This isn't just someone more, I might just drive to a nice little model today and pick some nice colors and go, wow, look what we've got, right? In the same way the Gottman model is based on robust research. Spencer Horn 48:16 - 48:18 Over 30 years of research. Pollyanna Lenkic 48:18 - 48:39 Correct. TCI's model is based on 20 years of research. So you've got case studies, even if you've never run a team process before, go onto the TCI website, there are case studies there, right? So you've got case studies of this working globally across every sector, different cultural contexts in country. Pollyanna Lenkic 48:41 - 48:50 It works and that's the key difference. It is a commitment. So being very clear, what does the client need right now? What do they have capacity for? Pollyanna Lenkic 48:51 - 49:00 Is it a team day that they want to that they need? Or is it team effectiveness? They're two very different things. Team effectiveness is the team coaching process. Pollyanna Lenkic 49:01 - 49:19 And, you know, that is a process. And it is a process. I don't know, who's woken up one morning went, you know, I really fancy a six pack and being really strong and fit. So you go out and you buy the gear, whether it be a bike or yoga mat, or whatever it is, or gym membership, you have one PT session, how's your muscle tone? Pollyanna Lenkic 49:20 - 49:37 Not happening if you never get back into the gym again, right? So if it's a team process, there's work to happen. And the reason it's a process is people can practice, course correct, implement, test some stuff out. and then they come back and then you keep moving that. Spencer Horn 49:37 - 50:04 And you wanna make sure that this is not just an event that lets them off the hook because yeah, we've done it before. Well, the difference is that we're gonna start off and really give you this huge inoculation, if you will, against all the challenges that you have and help you to, to come together as a team. But then that needs to be ongoing. So with this engagement, talk a little bit about that. Spencer Horn 50:04 - 50:11 How did you structure that? How long of follow-ups did you do? And what did those look like? Pollyanna Lenkic 50:12 - 50:21 Yeah, so I used the team coaching process, right? We're trained on this. This is what team TCI does. So I just followed the process. Pollyanna Lenkic 50:21 - 50:31 I think the first timeline I ever got, it's pretty much what I'm still using. And I adapt, and I grow it, and you change it. But you've got the bones of it, right? So it's the process. Pollyanna Lenkic 50:31 - 51:04 It's the start with the team, well, obviously, all the debriefs, consultation with the leader of the team first, prepare them for the process, understanding the context, what's happening, the challenges, where the leader needs support during the process, and what that looks like, as well as the team. Then we do the diagnostic, trying, ensuring, I always, ask the team to do the diagnostic within a three-day window together, because then, you know, if we can, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but we try and get them to do it at least in that one way. Spencer Horn 51:04 - 51:18 I like that, Pollyanna. I really like that because then it is a slice in time and things change, even from the time they take the assessment to the time that you do the retreat or first engagement, there can be even differences. Pollyanna Lenkic 51:19 - 51:27 Absolutely. So then we have a two-day offsite, where we reveal the results. And again, that's part of the training that you have. You'll get your two-day timeline. Pollyanna Lenkic 51:28 - 51:43 It's not gonna be guesswork. It's tried and trusted and worked, and there's an amazing community, which I still tap into when I go, oh my gosh, I just worked with this team and this happened. So that can happen, right? Then I give my client, I don't know what, I'm interested to see what you do. Pollyanna Lenkic 51:43 - 52:01 I give my clients a choice between hour and a half team coaching every month or every two months, a three-hour session. And that happened because some clients just liked it. So flexibility in the process, right? I don't, I recommend it doesn't go longer than two months. Pollyanna Lenkic 52:02 - 52:20 And then at the end, we measure again, another diagnostic, and have some fun with it. I mean, with this team, as you know, the results were extraordinary. I got, I'm not gonna sing it to you, because that would just be embarrassing, but you know, I put the results up, and what's that, there was- You can't be embarrassed, Pollyanna, be honest. I can. Pollyanna Lenkic 52:21 - 52:40 I think I put the space on to see, you know, that, you know, that, and I was like, and I revealed the results, you know, you can have some fun with it, depending on the team. And they were so excited because the results were so tangible. And, you know, and relate it back to business results as well, because then they have to speak to their stakeholders. Right? Pollyanna Lenkic 52:40 - 52:47 So it's not, yes, the connection and the camaraderie and the working together is incredibly important. And here's what it meant for the business. Spencer Horn 52:47 - 53:11 Well, I want to answer your question, but I, you know, we're, we're, it's, it's amazing how, how fast time has gone. I don't know if you know, we've almost been talking for, for an hour. Would you just, so we don't run out of time, would you share some of the, so accountability increased by their own measure, 69%. Pollyanna Lenkic 53:12 - 53:22 Yeah, so, so at the conclusion of the system, I've got to remember this, there was an uplift in positivity in the team by 39%. And it increases in productivity. Spencer Horn 53:22 - 53:26 39% of all 7 elements of positivity. That's amazing. Pollyanna Lenkic 53:27 - 53:37 47% on productivity. So trust increased by 38%. Communication by 37%. Respect by 34%. Pollyanna Lenkic 53:37 - 53:50 Constructive interaction by 60%. right, and they are all positivity strengths. Leadership increased by 52%. Leadership in this context isn't the leaders, it's leadership within the team. Spencer Horn 53:50 - 54:05 Leadership capacity throughout the, yeah, throughout this team. So in terms of ROI that you measured, savings and all of that, and decision making, you talked about how much faster and more efficient their decision making was, and I imagine they measured that. Pollyanna Lenkic 54:06 - 54:30 Well, yeah, decision making went up by 48% and accountability by 69%. Right. So there's a lot of tangible ROIs in that, you know, including the six weeks back in your calendar, including faster decisions, you know, extra funding, you know, less time spent in conflict, more time spent aligned doing the job. you know, doing what they were there to do together. Pollyanna Lenkic 54:31 - 54:53 So you have to remember that all of these extraordinary individuals had their own teams that they were a part of in their own organizations, right? So this was almost like a separate project that was pretty much a full-time job. They took those efficiencies back into their own organizations and their own, into the other teams that they were a part of and that they led. So the ripple effect was extraordinary. Spencer Horn 54:54 - 54:58 Well, I don't want to embarrass you, but I hope you charged them the right amount. Pollyanna Lenkic 54:58 - 55:16 Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's the other thing, when you look at the cost of the program, I always say investment for my clients, because it's an investment of time and money. So I will often say to my clients, I say 25%. Pollyanna Lenkic 55:17 - 55:26 You know, I say, when I look at all the work I've done, clients are getting 25% uplift on, you know, in their teams. What would that mean? Spencer Horn 55:26 - 55:28 Is that top line, bottom line? Pollyanna Lenkic 55:29 - 55:46 I don't know. I just sort of say 25%. I don't specify it until they ask me for specific and then I'll give them specific case studies. And then what that means for the business and what that means for the output and the money saved, right? Pollyanna Lenkic 55:46 - 55:54 And I think it's important to have those case studies. And again, if you don't have them, TCI have them. So when you do the training, you have access to that. Spencer Horn 55:55 - 56:13 I want you to be confident if you're listening to charge based on the value that you're bringing. I remember, Pollyanna, I was referred to a client and I did the diagnostic. I have a pretty robust fee. I'm not going to share that, but they're like, wow. Spencer Horn 56:13 - 56:31 By the time we were done, they're like, now I understand. Now I understand, but sometimes we're afraid to say, what would it be worth to you if you were able to increase your productivity by 25%? What's it costing you to stay where you are right now? Correct. Spencer Horn 56:31 - 56:49 Well, let me just answer your question. So I'm actually in a client engagement right now that has been interrupted by the Gulf War. So we had created a six-month engagement. It's really meant to be an initial engagement that hopefully spreads throughout the entire organization. Spencer Horn 56:49 - 57:33 So it's a different type of team engagement, 30 executives of individual teams. So we can't do a true team diagnostic, but we're doing team leader views with all of them and the team coaching process. Then that hope is is that they will but working with the team leader with all the outcomes like we normally would so it's a really interesting hybrid, but it's a six months and what we're doing is two months of 90 minute coaching for like seven cohorts. So we do small cohort coaching virtually So we'll break them into you know, four or five groups and And then we'll have a one-day in the middle. Spencer Horn 57:33 - 57:55 We started with two days, two months of 90-minute coaching for those cohorts, one day, and then two more months of 90-minute coaching, and then finish with a two-day. So we have five live days. And on top of that, I am doing one session with each individual to just do some. They're really needing help right now. Spencer Horn 57:55 - 58:07 The geopolitics, how it affects the airlines is enormous. And they're based right there in the Middle East. So they need all the help they can get. Pollyanna Lenkic 58:09 - 58:31 Yeah, it's a tough time out there for everybody. And the other thing I'd probably recommend for people listening is, you know, have a network of coaches, because there are times, you know, I, if individual team members need coaching, or would benefit from coaching, and that happens, that falls out of this program, I choose, it's a personal preference, I choose not to coach them. I choose to stay with, to the system. Pollyanna Lenkic 58:31 - 58:37 And I have other coaches that, you know, we've all got friends in the industry, colleagues in the industry. I just, I refer them onto them. Spencer Horn 58:37 - 58:58 I think that, I think that's great. And, and I really addressing the, the system is, is so powerful and knowing how to do that. I love that, that you have that collaboration. So for coaches who are listening and want to create this level of impact, what's the first shift that they need to make in, in how they approach teams? Pollyanna Lenkic 59:01 - 59:16 get trained well. Seriously, I could not have done this work if I didn't have the training. Because it's it that is such a big question. There are so many shifts that happen to be able to work with the system. Pollyanna Lenkic 59:17 - 59:35 I don't know that that's an answer I can give you in one minute. I would say be trained, be trained well. I invest in my training and development so that I can give my clients value, rather than just rolling out what I did, you know, last year. I recently recertified with Team Coaching International. Pollyanna Lenkic 59:35 - 59:54 Because, you know, and I went, oh my God, I forgot about that. Why am I doing that? You know, it's good. And then I had the joy of co-running a masterclass with Alexis, you know, one of the co-founders of TCI when I went out to Hawaii. Pollyanna Lenkic 59:54 - 1:00:16 So I was on the same time zone for America. Cause I'm not just not at my best in the middle of the night in Australia. So be trained well and have a good network of people to bounce off to ensure that you're, that you're running good process and good practice. Because we can all get lazy, we can all fall into bad habits. Pollyanna Lenkic 1:00:16 - 1:00:22 It's our job as coaches to stay current, to stay relevant, and to ensure that we're serving our clients. Spencer Horn 1:00:23 - 1:00:24 Do you ever co-coach? Pollyanna Lenkic 1:00:25 - 1:00:30 I love it, yes, all the time. I'm there. Spencer Horn 1:00:30 - 1:00:47 Here's what I wanted to ask of you. If there's someone out there who's doing team coaching and you want to connect with Pollyanna, how can they reach out to you? and get to know you? If you're a business leader who wants you to come in and work with them, how can they reach you? Spencer Horn 1:00:48 - 1:00:56 Because you're just so fabulous in what you do. I'm just so grateful for all that you've shared with me and our listeners. So how can people find and get a hold of you? Pollyanna Lenkic 1:00:58 - 1:01:17 Probably the easiest way is search for me on LinkedIn. Send me a message, but please personalize it because I just delete all non-personal personalized messages because LinkedIn is an interesting place, right? Sometimes they're good connections and sometimes not so much. So personalise an invite so I know who you are and where you've come from, from listening to this. Pollyanna Lenkic 1:01:17 - 1:01:29 You can email me. My email address is polyanna at polyannalinkage.com. So my first name, at, and then my surname, dot com. Reach out to TCI. Pollyanna Lenkic 1:01:30 - 1:01:30 Reach out to you. Spencer Horn 1:01:30 - 1:01:43 Teamcoachinginternational.com. And you are leading a master class in July. Is that right? For people in Southeast Asia, in New Zealand, in Australia. Pollyanna Lenkic 1:01:43 - 1:01:45 I haven't been told about that, but love to. Spencer Horn 1:01:45 - 1:01:55 I don't know. I don't know. I thought you were. So isn't there, there's something happening and there's going to be something happening, but there's going to be a masterclass, I think. Spencer Horn 1:01:56 - 1:02:10 So maybe I've jumped the gun, but if you're out there and you're in Southeast Asia, you're in Australia and you want to get certified in July, we want to hear from you. So message Pollyanna, message me, we'll figure out how to make it happen. Pollyanna Lenkic 1:02:11 - 1:02:15 Yeah, and I'll make it happen. Also, I'm in London in September, so let's make something happen there. Spencer Horn 1:02:16 - 1:02:22 in September. Brilliant. I might be just across the channel there. Pollyanna Lenkic 1:02:23 - 1:02:23 Let's do something. Spencer Horn 1:02:24 - 1:02:36 I would love that. So lovely to meet with you. Stay on. And if you're listening to, this is our first episode, we hope that you like and subscribe to our Teams Unleashed podcast channel. Spencer Horn 1:02:37 - 1:02:48 Thank you so much for listening. And Pollyanna, thank you so much for your generous time. It's been such a pleasure for me to learn from your brilliance and your generosity is so much appreciated. Pollyanna Lenkic 1:02:49 - 1:02:53 You're too kind. Thank you. It's been an absolute joy. And yeah, reach out if you're listening, reach out here. Pollyanna Lenkic 1:02:53 - 1:02:55 You're part of a community. Spencer Horn 1:02:56 - 1:02:58 Absolutely. Bye-bye now.