1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,240 Cassandra Iannucci and Alex Green are both 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,680 part of Deakin's Students as Partners initiatives. 3 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,840 In this episode, they discuss how, together, 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:14,000 they're reshaping the way that students and staff collaborate. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,480 Putting equity and lived experience at the center 6 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,880 and creating real change in higher education. 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,000 From the lands of the Wudawurrung people, 8 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,560 this is Stories of Wonder. 9 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,880 Cassandra, Alex, welcome to "Stories of Wonder." 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,800 - Thank you. - Thanks for having us. 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,080 - Pleasure. 12 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,240 All right. Cassandra, let's start with you. 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,520 I'm hoping that, could you give us a simple overview 14 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:45,000 of what the Students As Partners Initiative is 15 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,920 and what it aims to achieve? 16 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:47,720 - Sure. 17 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,240 Really, at its course, Students As Partners 18 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,560 or students have partnership shifts the focus 19 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,120 from doing things for students 20 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,720 to doing things with students. 21 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,560 So it recognises the unique expertise 22 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,920 that students bring and that's their lived experience. 23 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,400 And you engage in a collaboration which eventually 24 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,880 and intentionally leads to better outcomes, 25 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,560 more inclusive experiences, 26 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:23,400 and things that are just more meaningful 27 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,240 because they're made in co-decision making 28 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:29,760 with students and staff together. 29 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,760 - Yeah, right. And how did you first get involved with it? 30 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,240 - Well, (laughs) 31 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,920 I've always been drawn to relational pedagogy. 32 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,920 So the idea that we learn in relationship with each other, 33 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,960 it's a community of practise really. 34 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,000 And so it's a core pillar of my teaching 35 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,000 and learning philosophy. 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,800 And through also being introduced to ideas 37 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,760 of decolonizing my practise, 38 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,760 I was able to commit to thinking about 39 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,880 how I understand power and voice 40 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,000 and whose knowledge is valued within a teaching 41 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,080 and learning context. 42 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,880 And so I would like to really just acknowledge 43 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,000 our First Nations colleagues 44 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,000 and how we can learn a lot from them about deep listening, 45 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,000 about relationships and about community. 46 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,880 And that's what student staff partnership is. 47 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,680 So really, I came to it from a value 48 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,720 of recognising my students as partners 49 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,080 and thinking about how I can create a community 50 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,320 and lean hard into relationships first 51 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,560 as a grounding for then learning to occur. 52 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:51,760 - Hmm. 53 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,760 Alex, how did you get involved and what drew you into it? 54 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,600 - I first got involved in 2021. 55 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,800 I joined the student's mentoring staff project 56 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,280 as a student mentor. 57 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,480 And that fed into a micro grant project with, I think, 58 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,360 who is now the Digital Learning Futures team 59 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,280 to look at redesigning the DeakinSync Online unit site 60 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,640 to make it more accessible for students. 61 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:20,640 - Mm. 62 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,800 - I was looking for work that went beyond 63 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,760 a lot of the traditional casual roles we think of 64 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:27,600 as being for students. 65 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,160 I think I'd pulled enough pints of Guinness by that point. 66 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:31,160 (group laughing) 67 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,760 And I was also looking for a way 68 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,560 to feel more connected to uni. 69 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,040 I was an online student at the time, 70 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,920 and I think for a lot of neurodivergent students, 71 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,160 they feel that a lot of traditional work styles 72 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,520 won't be suited for them. 73 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,440 So the idea that this would not only be flexible 74 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,520 and accessible for me as a student with autism, 75 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,400 but directly valued my input 76 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,520 was an exciting thing to be part of. 77 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,200 And here I am all these years later. 78 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,080 - Yeah, so you were an online student 79 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,920 when you heard about this? - Yes, back in the day. Yeah. 80 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:03,240 - And how did you hear about it? 81 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,320 - Through Deakin talent. 82 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,200 So where students find out about listings, 83 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,440 including work integrated learning 84 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:10,800 and student roles at Deakin. 85 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,560 So I was pretty habitually combing through that 86 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,720 for something that I could do online. 87 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:16,600 - Yeah. Cool. 88 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,000 Cassandra, what does an authentic student staff partnership 89 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,720 look like in action? 90 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,520 - This really good question. 91 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,400 I think about, look, I think about student staff partnership 92 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,160 as a relationship. 93 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,400 And it is, and just like you would think about 94 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,640 a good friendship or a colleague, 95 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,880 it takes time to build trust. 96 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,840 You don't start by diving into your deepest problem. 97 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:48,680 - Mm. 98 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,240 - You take time, you listen, you get to know each other. 99 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:53,840 You have dialogue. 100 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:58,200 And it's in that space that you can then lean into curiosity 101 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:03,200 and open up more meaningful dialogue 102 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,200 and problem solving together. 103 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:06,800 And it's the same when we're looking at 104 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,920 authentic student staff partnership. 105 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,240 It's built on trust. 106 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,640 So oftentimes that takes time to establish. 107 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,600 - Yeah. - It takes vulnerability 108 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,920 because you need to show up as a whole human person 109 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,600 if you're expecting whomever you're working with 110 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,920 or establishing that partnership or relationship with, 111 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,800 to also show up as a whole human person. 112 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,360 It has to be a shared learning space. 113 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,080 So just like that reciprocity of, 114 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,400 I'm showing up with vulnerability as well, 115 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,280 and we're engaging in that dialogue. 116 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:42,920 You're coming from a learner first perspective. 117 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,400 So if you're coming into a student staff partnership 118 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,720 and it's not genuine, you already have the answers 119 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,520 or you know what you want the answer to be 120 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,360 or what you want a co-created. 121 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,720 And I'll say that in air quotes 122 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,040 because this wouldn't be genuine. 123 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:58,520 - Yeah. - You already have what the 124 00:05:58,520 --> 00:05:59,800 outcome looks like in practise. 125 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,240 So in order for it to be authentic, 126 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,760 you need to come as a learner first. 127 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,640 And again, we lean on our indigenous ways of knowing 128 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,160 and our colleagues who have shared in the 129 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,440 practise of partnership for tens of thousands of years. 130 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,840 So it is a learner first perspective. 131 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:22,560 It's relational, it's dialogic, 132 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,960 and it's built on care fundamentally, isn't it? 133 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,760 Where you care to know about the other person. 134 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,760 You care to know about what the student has to say. 135 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,720 You care about their experience, 136 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,000 you care about them as a person. 137 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,960 So you're not only creating a space 138 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,680 that nurtures a relationship, but you're caring. 139 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,000 I think really at the heart of it, 140 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,160 that is a genuine student staff partnership practise. 141 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,520 It has to be built on that notion of care 142 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,040 and compassion and community and trust. 143 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,640 And it takes time to build and nurture. 144 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:56,640 - Mm. 145 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,080 And I guess like to be able to create spaces like that 146 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,800 in all of these kind of, I don't know, interactions, 147 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,120 these shared sort of learning opportunities, 148 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,840 it's not gonna be for every staff member 149 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,480 or they need to be prepared to kind of do like, 150 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,160 how does that work in, I don't know, 151 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,240 onboarding the right staff members 152 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,240 and matching them with the kind of the right students? 153 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,320 - Mm. - What's that process like? 154 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,120 - Yeah, it's a really good question. 155 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,400 What we have in the Students As Partners programme 156 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:34,400 here at Deakin is really leading nationally 157 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,840 because we have a variety 158 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,120 of student staff partnership projects 159 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,040 that all require different levels of investment, 160 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,560 different capacities to engage in 161 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,520 that genuine relationality. 162 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,040 And so therefore, different entry points really is 163 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,200 how we like to talk about it here at Deakin, 164 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,360 where a staff member who is curious 165 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,960 and committed to recentering the student 166 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,720 or the student voice in their practise, 167 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,120 but doesn't yet feel confident that they can create 168 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,760 that safe enough space or that they can show up 169 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,800 with vulnerability if it challenges their traditional 170 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,280 grasp on authority or controller power 171 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,800 within the teaching and learning space. 172 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,280 They can come into one of our student staff partner programmes 173 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,520 or initiatives that is a little bit of a lighter touch. 174 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,520 - Mm. - So we can meet 175 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:31,800 staff where they're at. 176 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,600 And the same for students. 177 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:38,520 So we have to rebuild trust with our students. 178 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:43,400 And so we can't expect all students to feel comfortable 179 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,040 diving into a deep relational practise with a staff member 180 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,720 if there isn't that trust there. 181 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,680 - Yeah. - And so we can suggest 182 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:56,680 a lighter touch partnership opportunity to start to build 183 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,280 that trust in the staff partner or, 184 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,080 and in the university system that it's genuinely here 185 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,560 to listen and to co-create 186 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:08,880 and to respond in decision making context 187 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,800 to what the student lived experience is telling us. 188 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,040 - Yeah, right. Cool. 189 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,800 So there's a bit of a almost like, 190 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,680 I don't know, you can try. 191 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:17,560 - Yeah. Not before you buy, 192 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:21,960 but you can try a little bit and find your feet a little bit 193 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,200 before you jump into something 194 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,040 that might be a bit more weighty and meaty 195 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,040 and see if you're ready to be vulnerable. 196 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,520 Alex, tell us about a moment 197 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,040 where you saw your input directly 198 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,360 influence a university process 199 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,200 or decision that affects students. 200 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,600 - I mean, look, I could point to points of impact in any 201 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,520 of the projects I've been fortunate to be a part of. 202 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,840 We've made adaptations to the variety of formats 203 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,960 that students can view their learning resources in online. 204 00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,440 That was one I was very proud of. 205 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,200 From that first micro grant. 206 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,360 We've seen a lot of adaptation to language 207 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,760 from projects I've been part of, such as changes 208 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,920 to the evaluate survey, which Cassandra 209 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,240 and I have partnered on last year, 210 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,120 changes internally to how we talk about 211 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,040 study abroad opportunities for students. 212 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,240 But I actually think the most tangible shift I've seen is in 213 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,120 how the staff that I've partnered with interact 214 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:25,640 with students moving forward. 215 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,960 I've been able to go on to partner with a lot 216 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,480 of the staff leads that I've worked with in projects 217 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,280 outside of Students As Partners. 218 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,880 And just seeing the shift in how they show up to class 219 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,760 and meet students where they're at, as Cassandra says 220 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,920 to me is probably the most valuable. 221 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:43,760 - Right. 222 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,360 Are there any examples of like, 223 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:51,280 I don't know how certain teachers 224 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,520 or tutors have sort of changed their strategies 225 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,360 on how to connect with some of their students? 226 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,560 - I think it's more of an attitude. 227 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,480 As Cassandra said, it is partly about staff who are ready 228 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,040 to be vulnerable. 229 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:09,000 And I think seeing that we can all get very connected 230 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,880 to the work that we produce. 231 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,200 You know, when you're close to it, 232 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,080 it's hard to see it objectively. 233 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,960 So I think seeing staff be a little less defensive 234 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,240 about what they're bringing to students 235 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,560 and just giving students the opportunity 236 00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:27,840 to share their thoughts has been humbling, I would say. 237 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,040 I think. Yeah. 238 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,360 - Mm-hm. 239 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,480 And Cassandra, how did these kind of initiatives come about? 240 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,840 Like the things that you can choose 241 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,320 to have people partner on to, I don't know, change, 242 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,840 is there student outreach prior? 243 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,320 Do students express an interest 244 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:48,520 and I guess the same with staff, 245 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:49,640 you went into it a little bit there, 246 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,200 but like, how do they even hear about this? 247 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,800 - Yes, so one of the key features of our suite 248 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,000 of initiatives and programmes is that none 249 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,560 of them are mandatory. 250 00:11:59,560 --> 00:12:02,040 None are required for staff to engage with 251 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,800 or students to engage with. 252 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,760 And I personally really appreciate that 253 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,320 because it restricts, 254 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,200 it prevents disingenuine engagement with the programmes. 255 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,840 And because they're all opt in or voluntary, 256 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,600 there is an expression of interest form 257 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,040 for most of our projects or programmes. 258 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,800 But it really depends on what initiative we're talking about 259 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:34,800 and where in that scaffold partnership experience 260 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,320 a staff wants to sort of get engaged with. 261 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,440 If it is on the lighter touch, 262 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,520 dip your toe in type of a thing. 263 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,000 We do have a co-created 264 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:49,000 and student led podcast where students are 265 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:53,800 in dialogue sharing some of their experiences framed through 266 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,000 what they wish their lecturers or educators knew. 267 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,480 - Ah. 268 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,960 - So you can tune in to that on any... 269 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,440 (group laughing) - Should we, yeah, 270 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,200 let's get a little super there with the name of it. 271 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,240 What's it called? 272 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,680 - "Voices From The Classroom. What I Wish My Lecturer Knew." 273 00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:12,480 - Oh, nice. - Yeah. 274 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,920 - So it's students talking about this. Yeah, right. 275 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:16,760 - That's right. 276 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,120 Students are hosting the podcast talking 277 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,840 with other students who are sharing their lived experience 278 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,040 and that requires nothing 279 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,200 but tuning in to anywhere that podcasts are live. 280 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,760 And you can listen to stories 281 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,040 and really humanise your students in your own classroom 282 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,400 or lean into that curiosity without having 283 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,120 to engage in dialogue with students. 284 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,920 So there's no barriers at all to engaging with that programme. 285 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,880 We then have other programmes like for example, 286 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,360 our students' mentoring staff programme 287 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,040 where an open call expression of interest is put out 288 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,520 to any staff member in the university. 289 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,520 Professional staff, academic staff, casual staff. 290 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,560 And you can express interest in participating. 291 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,200 We don't gatekeep really, the programme is there for you 292 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:09,560 to be involved in. 293 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,880 For that one students, 294 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:13,840 we have a targeted cohort of students 295 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,600 for the students mentoring staff programme. 296 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,920 - Mm-hm. - And so we will open 297 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,320 that programme up for students 298 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,120 who are registered in the Disability Resource Centre 299 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,920 or through the Disability Resource Centre. 300 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,400 But other programmes we then put on Target Connect, 301 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,240 which is Alex you were reflecting on how 302 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,480 that's how you first came to students staff partnership 303 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,040 and that those are those programmes. 304 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,880 So it really depends on what the initiative is. 305 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,120 There's really low barrier 306 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:44,520 and then a little bit more of a assessment process 307 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,920 through which the staff might submit a project idea 308 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,400 and then it goes through an assessment panel 309 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,080 and rubric to receive funding. 310 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,720 So again, the deeper the partnership, 311 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,080 the I guess more thorough the process is to ensure 312 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,640 that it is a genuine partnership project. 313 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:03,560 - Yeah. - And that staff 314 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,560 and students are gonna have a good experience. 315 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:06,400 - Yeah. Cool. 316 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,360 And what are the limits of what a student can mentor 317 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:13,520 a staff member on? 318 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,640 Like is it everything from building empathy 319 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,160 with people with different abilities 320 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,000 or different lived experiences 321 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,760 or the way to like how to use TikTok? 322 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,480 Like what are the lines we're drawing in between here? 323 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,960 - It could be, it really is open in 324 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,440 that student mentoring staff programme in particular. 325 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,720 Some students come into the programme 326 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,080 with something in particular they want to educate. 327 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,320 - So they can come in with, yeah, right. 328 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,160 - They can. - With something that 329 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:44,640 they're proposing that...yeah. 330 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,600 - Or they just come in with an interest 331 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,440 to share their experience and maybe respond. 332 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:51,800 So we had some students come into the 333 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,200 student mentoring staff programme who love the idea 334 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,440 that there's interest from a staff perspective 335 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,320 to understand their lived experience. 336 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,600 And that's enough. 337 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,200 So they come into the programme and just engage 338 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,840 and the conversation goes wherever it goes. 339 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,440 The academic or the teaching staff 340 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,840 or the professional staff, whomever it is, might say, 341 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,200 "Hey, I've been really curious about what it's like to," 342 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,160 or "What was your experience of this aspect 343 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:20,640 of the university?" 344 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,920 And the conversation goes from there. 345 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,080 We do support our students 346 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,240 and our staff engaging in any of our programmes. 347 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,360 So for our students mentoring staff, 348 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:35,360 we provide examples of safe conversations, 349 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,920 what's appropriate, what's not appropriate. 350 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,240 For example, not appropriate to ask for disclosure, 351 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,760 why are you registered with the disability resource centre? 352 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,440 What's your disability or like it's not appropriate. 353 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:48,840 So we really support our students 354 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,560 and staff to make sure it's safe. 355 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,880 We provide activities that students and staff might use. 356 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,200 Like a would you rather teaching and learning edition 357 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,920 or would you rather assessment edition? 358 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,640 And it creates a fun entry point to dialogue 359 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:04,440 and then the conversations go where they need to go. 360 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,800 And of course that's not required. 361 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:08,960 Dialogue can just happen naturally 362 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,720 if both students and staff are willing. 363 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,760 - Mm-hm. 364 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,400 Why is it important that this programme 365 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,640 has an equity first lens? 366 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,480 Maybe you first, Alex. 367 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:25,400 - That's a big one. 368 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,240 I suppose we're trying to provide a platform 369 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,960 for student voices who are often not allowed into the room 370 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,360 or not offered a seat at the table. 371 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,880 - I think students can tell when we engage 372 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,000 with them in a way that is not authentic 373 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,320 and creating this sort of safe third space 374 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,280 for students within Deakin has been, 375 00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:58,280 I mean from my personal experience, 376 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:03,280 humanising, confidence building, capacity building. 377 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,000 But I think we are really trying to prioritise, as I said, 378 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,600 student voices that are often left out of the conversation. 379 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,280 Because those are often the students who need direct support 380 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,240 and are missing out on that relational aspect of what it is 381 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:17,920 to be at university. 382 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,000 So yeah, privileging that space for those students. 383 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,160 - Hmm. Yeah, that's so important. 384 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,880 How do you ensure that students from equity cohorts 385 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:35,800 are supported and empowered rather than tokenized? 386 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,200 'Cause I suppose that's the risk sometimes depending on, 387 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,560 I don't know, it's an opt-in kind of experience. 388 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,280 But yeah, you don't want it to seem transactional. 389 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:50,080 Right? 390 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,800 - I think depending on the project, 391 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,560 part of the work we do at the beginning is ensuring 392 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,280 that staff have intentions 393 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,320 to engage authentically in partnership with students. 394 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,000 So ensuring we're not at risk 395 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,520 of them becoming research assistants 396 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,080 or just sort of sounding boards 397 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:13,040 or tick boxes to say that staff have engaged in partnership. 398 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,480 So Cassandra, maybe you wouldn't mind speaking 399 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:16,840 to sort of how we, 400 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:21,920 yeah prioritise staff who are trying 401 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,200 to engage authentically in partnership, I suppose. 402 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,600 - Yeah, and I might even take a step back. 403 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,440 I think when we think about universities, 404 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,440 they were originally designed for a small group of 405 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,120 privileged white upper class men. 406 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:46,120 And we still see echoes of that in our systems 407 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,320 and the ways that universities are run today. 408 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:56,080 And through our partnership practises 409 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,840 and our equity first lens, 410 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,920 it allows us to really step into believing 411 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,560 that it's our responsibility as a university to change. 412 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,360 So it's not about preparing students for university 413 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:12,240 that doesn't work for them. 414 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,200 - Mm. - It's about co-creating 415 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,520 a university that is for the people. 416 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,960 And I think about conversations that are happening now 417 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,400 about social licencing to educate. 418 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:31,280 And that requires that we have trust 419 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,280 in the people of the community. 420 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,680 And the only way for us to do that 421 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,240 is to care about our students 422 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:45,240 and to show that we are responsive, we are listening, 423 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:48,720 we are committed to co-creating a university 424 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,320 that is for the community. 425 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,200 And the community is more and more diverse. 426 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,040 Thankfully in a university this is something 427 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,920 that we need to celebrate and remove barriers 428 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:04,240 and really step into the responsibility of creating a space 429 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,360 that is built for and with. 430 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:09,800 And that's where partnership comes in with the students 431 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,240 that we want to serve in the university. 432 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,640 And so, yes, to what you were saying, Alex, 433 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,560 it's really important we can, 434 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,400 and equity first perspective allows us 435 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,920 to look around the room and say, who's not here? 436 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,920 How are we reinforcing inequitable practises and why? 437 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,960 - Yeah. - What are the system barriers 438 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,960 that are not meaning this table is it diverse perspective 439 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,000 and we're making decisions together rather than for? 440 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,120 And so one of the things 441 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:56,120 that we do in our programme is a low barrier entry 442 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,520 into student staff partnership. 443 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,240 So what that means for a student when they apply 444 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,720 through Deakin talent, sorry, 445 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,000 when they apply through Deakin talent, 446 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,240 they don't need to upload a CV, 447 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,120 they don't have to have previous work experience. 448 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:19,120 It's you being a student qualifies you for this role. 449 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,960 - Yeah. - It's your lived experience 450 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,960 that we value and welcome you into the programme for to share. 451 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,640 So one, we have a low barrier entry into 452 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,600 the student staff partnership programme 453 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:33,440 and we pay our students. 454 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:34,280 - Mm-hm. 455 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,080 - So we recognise that volunteering 456 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,400 requires economic capital. 457 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,640 It's a privilege to volunteer, it means you have time, 458 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,160 you have money, you have the connections 459 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,040 to be in the right place, you have transportation. 460 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,560 You know, there's so many privileges layered 461 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,480 in an assumption that students can volunteer. 462 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,440 And so we pay or numerate all of our student partners 463 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,240 and that helps to ensure 464 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,040 that equity cohort students are supported 465 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:05,520 in student staff partnership 466 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,160 and are genuinely removing as many barriers 467 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,600 as we can to be decision makers at the table. 468 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,560 We also hire from an equity first perspective, 469 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,680 which is really important to us. 470 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,000 And in order for any projects that seek funding, 471 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,840 any partnership projects that seek funding from our programme 472 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,320 needs to evidence that the outcomes 473 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,920 of the programme are going to support the teaching 474 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:43,920 and learning and student outcomes of equity cohort students. 475 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,480 So it needs to show that it's improving accessibility, 476 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,000 it's considering different ways of working. 477 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,760 It's asking the question, who is this privileging 478 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,680 who is it not, in an attempt to really amplify 479 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,240 otherwise silenced or marginalised voices. 480 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,640 - Yeah, that's fantastic. 481 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,200 And it really, instead of putting the onus on the students 482 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,000 you are actively looking for, who's not here, 483 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,120 who's missing, what voice aren't we hearing right now? 484 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,880 Alex, if you are comfortable, 485 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,040 could you tell us a little bit about 486 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,080 how your lived experience has sort of shaped your role 487 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,200 and your participation in this initiative? 488 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:29,640 - You like the big questions? 489 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,160 (group laughing) 490 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,320 I am very proudly a member of both the queer 491 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,600 and the disabled community. 492 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,520 And I do think my personal identity in that space 493 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,560 inherently lends itself to advocacy. 494 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,960 So there's a reason that the students we partner 495 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,360 with are not only passionate about improving the experience 496 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:55,400 for other students, but they have lived experience 497 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,560 in needing to adapt and change their way of thinking 498 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,200 and change the language they use. 499 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,440 And I actually think a lot of the staff we partner 500 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,200 with can learn from students in that way. 501 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:12,320 I also think that lived experience can create a safe space 502 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,920 for other students. 503 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,480 So other students who identify in those communities can sort 504 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,160 of see themselves reflected in students who have been able 505 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,640 to make significant change at the university. 506 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,440 And it's sort of an opportunity for students 507 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,560 to impact decisions that directly affect them. 508 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,600 - Hmm. - Yeah. 509 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,680 - Has your involvement in this initiative 510 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,840 shaped your career aspirations in any way? 511 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,720 Has it opened any doors for you? 512 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:44,560 - Absolutely. 513 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,360 I mean, I'm currently very fortunate 514 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,400 to be working in the Students As Partners team 515 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,880 with Cassandra and the wonderful Sam Geddes, 516 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,800 shout out to Sam. 517 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:55,440 So I'm working as an officer in the 518 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,800 Students As Partners teams, 519 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,840 sort of as that first point of contact for students. 520 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,840 So it's been a very gratifying graduation 521 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,560 from my work as a student partner. 522 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:10,080 And I would also say I learn from every student we work with 523 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,280 on a daily basis. 524 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,080 - Yeah. Nice. 525 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,080 Cassandra, what are some tangible changes 526 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,840 that you've seen across the university 527 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,520 as a result of this work? 528 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,320 - Like how long do you have? 529 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,080 Because we genuinely could sit here 530 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,080 for way longer than reasonable 531 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,520 to list through some of the changes 532 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,800 or impacts that partnership have had on the university. 533 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,240 I can start by thinking personally 534 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,520 and something you said earlier, Alex reminded me of how 535 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:53,000 of like even the most micro thing makes a big difference. 536 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,680 We have a programme called Coffee Conversations 537 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,680 and this is one of the only students staff partnership 538 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,280 programmes in the whole country that brings partnership 539 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,080 into the teaching and learning space. 540 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,560 So it's something that we're really proud of 541 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,120 because what we found historically is 542 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:20,640 that students are asked to give feedback on the unit, 543 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,840 on their experience of a unit at the end of a trimester. 544 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,160 - Yeah. - Which is amazing. 545 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,920 It's important to amplify that student experience, 546 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,840 but what it doesn't do is impact 547 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,800 that student because they're providing feedback 548 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,000 after their experience is done. 549 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,040 - Right. 550 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,280 That's probably the last thing that we wanted do 551 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,640 when they've like wrapped up a whole unit. 552 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,640 - Right, well, some students are passionate 553 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,240 and want to improve the experience 554 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,240 of the students who come after them. 555 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,320 But it was a problem that we wanted to solve 556 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,120 because students have lived experience, they have opinions, 557 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:59,120 they have feedback, and we need to listen 558 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:03,800 and inform our practise as we go through the trimester. 559 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,480 So we created this coffee conversations programme 560 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,240 Where teaching staff and students, a small group of students 561 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,240 and it changes each week depending on who signs up 562 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,160 or who's available to come along. 563 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,920 We share coffee or any hot beverage 564 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:20,520 or any cold beverage for that matter. 565 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:21,640 - Free coffee, okay yeah. - Free coffee 566 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,560 from the on campus cafe. 567 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,920 You walk over after class, sit down, have a bit of a yarn 568 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,360 over a cup of coffee, students share who they are, 569 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:35,040 as a teaching staff you share who you are, 570 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,160 you could talk about anything. 571 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,920 And the conversation, usually 572 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,320 with the relational first lens ends up talking about 573 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,440 some feedback and student experience. 574 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,720 And then what we can do is listen to that feedback, 575 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,160 make changes to our practise for the next week of classes. 576 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,560 And then you stand up there in front of this class each week 577 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,320 and say, "Hey, I heard what you said last week. 578 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,960 You wanted more of this 579 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,080 so today I've put more of that in my class." 580 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,120 And the students can then see that we're tightening 581 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,280 that feedback loop. 582 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,200 So when we're talking about partnership requiring 583 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,440 trust building every single week when we're evidencing 584 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,760 that you are giving me feedback, I'm listening, 585 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,960 and we're making these decisions together 586 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,520 to improve your experience of teaching and learning 587 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,160 and your teaching and learning outcomes. 588 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,880 Students are more and more engaged and trusting in you 589 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,160 and in the process. 590 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,000 - Yeah. 591 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,080 - But what I learned from participating in that practise, 592 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,000 even the small thing, like realising 593 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,520 that I keep so much a secret of my practise 594 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,000 in the university. 595 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,600 - Mm. - So students will be coming 596 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,800 and saying, "Hey, this deadline for this assignment 597 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,440 is not working for me." 598 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,440 Like, okay, to be honest, it's not working for me either, 599 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,480 but here's the policy. 600 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:50,880 So let's sit down together 601 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,840 and say, okay, using your experience, 602 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,000 using what's in the Deakin assessment policy, 603 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,400 how can we solve this problem together? 604 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,120 And I realised that I was making decisions 605 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,360 that weren't working for students 606 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,800 because of particular systems and requirements, 607 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,720 but not telling students. 608 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,520 So that dialogue was missing. 609 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:11,840 - Yeah. - So even little 610 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,160 things like that, 611 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,840 I'm more forthcoming to share what is usually hidden 612 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,160 or secret knowledge behind closed doors with my students. 613 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,920 And that builds trust and it builds relationships. 614 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,360 But that's just a very small example, 615 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,080 but it's something that does matter. 616 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,040 Other things that we've done, 617 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,960 we see assignments being co-created. 618 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,320 - Oh. - Yeah. Right? 619 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,080 - Cool. - Very excited about this one. 620 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,160 - What's an example, where have they tried that? 621 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,080 - Oh, multiple places across the university. 622 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,680 - Okay. - So we've had a couple 623 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,040 of faculties do partnership projects with their students, 624 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,480 where students in that unit are sitting down 625 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,200 with the unit chair and co-creating the assessment- 626 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,520 - Wow. in the unit. 627 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,000 Sometimes we have examples of students who have 628 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,240 finished the unit and who are currently in the unit 629 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,120 and who are coming into the unit. 630 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:05,160 So if it's a core unit, 631 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,080 we might have the next year's cohort students join 632 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,480 that partnership and they sit down together 633 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,360 and say, "Hey, let's co-create this assessment task 634 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:19,360 so that not only is the task itself genuinely seen 635 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:24,200 as meaningful, relevant, and worthwhile to the student, 636 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,840 but there's also this relationality that's built into it. 637 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,840 Other students then trust that, hey, this was designed 638 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,920 by my peers with my best interest. 639 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,320 And so they lean in harder to the assessment. 640 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,280 It's so cool. 641 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,080 Like, why do you know? It's so cool. 642 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,680 Why don't we do it more often? 643 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:41,600 - Yeah. 644 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,040 - And it could just be a rubric. 645 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,800 You could co-create a rubric. 646 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,400 - Wow. 647 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,920 - And I get excited about teaching and learning 648 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,360 because it's my heart. 649 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,160 But we have so many examples across the university, 650 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,320 having things accessible in like feminine products 651 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,880 in toilets for free. 652 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:01,120 - Of course. Yeah. - Right? 653 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,200 Something that was student initiated and led 654 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,240 and done in partnership. 655 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,080 We have examples of co-creating media, 656 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,520 products that support students 657 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,360 to see possibilities in career trajectories 658 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,520 and pathways from a degree, 659 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,000 connecting with industry partners. 660 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,240 We see, what are of yours favourite things 661 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,520 that you've seen across the university? 662 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:26,320 - Oh gosh. 663 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,400 I'm thinking even just of this year, 664 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,400 assessment templates and rubrics is a big one. 665 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:32,200 - Hm, massive. 666 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:33,320 - Obviously very excited 667 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,080 to see the podcast coming into fruition. 668 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,000 - Was that student like ideated as well? 669 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,520 Or was that an initiative born out of this initiative? 670 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:47,280 - Yeah. - Like and then 671 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,560 sort of handed down... 672 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,480 - That one was staff initiated, 673 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,120 that was born of recognising the problem 674 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,880 of partnership requires safety 675 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,840 and not all staff are safe to share stories with 676 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,080 from a student perspective. 677 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,120 - Yeah. - But we still want 678 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,680 those staff to have access to lean into that curiosity 679 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,960 and to start to understand the student experience. 680 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,520 So we said, hey, we need something that's really low barrier 681 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:12,560 for staff to engage with. 682 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,360 - Yeah. - But we are absolutely 683 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:15,560 not creating that from our, 684 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,040 like it needs to be student led. 685 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,640 - Yeah. - And co-create with students. 686 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,280 So then we hired student partners to create 687 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,720 what will this look like? 688 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,720 And the creation of deciding it was gonna be this podcast, 689 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,760 this was gonna be the aims, this is how we're gonna run, 690 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,520 this is how we're gonna communicate with students, 691 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:34,800 this is how we're gonna edit 692 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,800 was all a partnership with students. 693 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:37,640 - Yeah. 694 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,840 - We've also had the fantastic student initiated 695 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,840 project this year, which has been developing a module 696 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,000 through the students helping students division two 697 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,160 support neurodivergent students in the classroom. 698 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,760 So that's a fantastic resource. 699 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,800 And that was a student who approached us 700 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,520 and said, "This work needs to be done 701 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:58,960 and I think this is the right space." 702 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,240 - Mm-hm. 703 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:05,520 So another tangible change that I've seen is that one, 704 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,840 more and more staff are seeking partnership opportunities, 705 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:16,400 which is really cool because it's normalising 706 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,280 student staff partnership practises. 707 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:19,120 - Mm. 708 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,800 - And if word of mouth is spreading, something's happening, 709 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,360 good tangible outcomes are happening, 710 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,800 students are talking about their experience, 711 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,160 staff are hearing it, they get curious, 712 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,480 they wanna be involved. 713 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,200 - Yeah. - They wanna have that same 714 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:36,600 engagement with their students 715 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,000 or those same quality of relationships with their students. 716 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,840 And then we're seeing it become business as usual. 717 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:44,680 - Mm. 718 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,160 - So as an example, drawing on coffee conversations 719 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,440 that I was talking about, we fund those coffee conversations 720 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,240 when you're a part of the programme. 721 00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:56,360 We often have staff come up to us now and say, 722 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,480 "Hey, it's just what I do with every class now." 723 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:00,320 You know? - Yeah. Nice. 724 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,200 - It's not, they don't even get funding from the programme. 725 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,480 It has just become their business as usual. 726 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,680 - Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. 727 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,080 And it's probably less 728 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,560 and less of a lift as you go forward to even try 729 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,760 and get people on board and more aware of it. 730 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,000 And more people will be looking for opportunities 731 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:18,920 to do this. 732 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,960 - And they trust. Right? 733 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,240 - Right. - They trust. 734 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,200 So we have to establish that trust and it takes time 735 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,240 and it takes repeated genuine responses 736 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:31,520 to students sharing their experience, their voice, 737 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,280 their ideas, their feedback, their perspectives, 738 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,200 making decisions together and leading to tangible outcomes. 739 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,440 And then we know it's not a waste of time 740 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,200 or it's not just tokenistic or it's not just lip service. 741 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,720 The Deakin staff and the Deakin University broadly 742 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:53,160 really does care about what the student has to say. 743 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,040 - Yeah. That's so cool. 744 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,800 Looking ahead beyond structural change, 745 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,160 what does it mean for students to feel heard, 746 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:05,160 to feel valued, 747 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:10,160 and to kind of feel part of the Deakin community? 748 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,200 Nice massive question there for someone to answer. 749 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,120 - I saw you look at me and go, 750 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,360 "No, don't look at me." 751 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,520 (group laughing) 752 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,520 I think I started my university journey only a decade ago, 753 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,440 and even back then before COVID, 754 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,840 it felt like there was a sense of community on campus, 755 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,480 and there was a stronger sense of relationality 756 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,280 between students and staff. 757 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,000 I can remember going from a 4:00 PM seminar, 758 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,400 or shoot as they call them in Queensland, 759 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,080 and going to the uni bar afterwards with my lecturer 760 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:47,320 and talking about the assignment. 761 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,120 Oh, we played pool. (group laughing) 762 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,040 So I do think sometimes that sense 763 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,680 of community is dwindling 764 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:55,880 and there's upsides of that now that 765 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,000 online education is so accessible. 766 00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,480 But I think we could be doing more 767 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,480 to support our online students 768 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,120 in getting involved in that sense. 769 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,920 So as a bit of a roundabout answer to your question, 770 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,400 I suppose I would say to any staff 771 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:10,840 who are sitting there going, 772 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,160 "Why don't we see students on campus anymore? 773 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,960 Why don't students want to engage?" 774 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:17,520 Think about how you could be the reason 775 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,760 they're excited to come to class. 776 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,760 Think about how you can be the community 777 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,320 that they crave on campus. 778 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:25,160 - Yeah. 779 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,080 And think about how you can make them feel 780 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:28,520 like you see them, right? 781 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:29,400 - Yes, absolutely. 782 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,960 And you see them beyond the two dimensional role 783 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,960 of who they are in your classroom. 784 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:37,080 - Mm. - Yeah. 785 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,080 - Yeah. 786 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,520 - Like it actually brings tears to my eye 787 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,600 when I think about this question and what it means. 788 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,400 Like, what does it mean for students to feel heard, 789 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,960 valued, part of a, like it's everything. 790 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,360 - Yeah. - It's everything. 791 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,600 We are humans, students are... 792 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,400 It's a fundamental need. 793 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:00,640 We need to feel seen and heard and valued 794 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:02,120 and part of a community. 795 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:07,120 So words that come to mind are belonging, dignity, 796 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,760 confidence, yes community. 797 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,000 Like, gosh it's powerful. 798 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,840 And if we just put ourselves in that position, 799 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,080 what does it mean for me to be heard 800 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,840 and for me to feel valued, 801 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,320 it's so motivating and inspiring. 802 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,320 And it makes any partnership practise welcoming 803 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,280 because I want my students to feel this way. 804 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,800 I want my students to want to come, 805 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,280 I want to be one of many reasons 806 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,040 students want to be involved 807 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,800 or want to be a Deakin, want to come to class, 808 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,280 they wanna talk to each other. 809 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:48,880 They wanna know that they come to a place where they're seen 810 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,880 as a whole person, not just a number, 811 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,480 not just a student, not just a name. 812 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,520 - Not just a grade. 813 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,120 - Not just a grade. Ugh, all those things. 814 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,480 Yeah, I want my students to know that I see them, 815 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,800 that I know that they're balancing a million things, 816 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,120 that they've had to make a really hard decision 817 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,760 to come to class 818 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,280 because it meant that they didn't do something else 819 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,120 in a long list of things that need to happen. 820 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,360 I mean, we're adults. 821 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,680 We're all living in this high cost of living world, 822 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,720 and no one's feeling it more than our students. 823 00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:25,680 So, gosh, humanising. 824 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,320 Yeah, it's really humanising. 825 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,120 - Great answers. 826 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,280 All right we've got some hopefully less heavy questions now 827 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,800 as we go to start wrapping up. 828 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,400 Alex, I'm looking at you again. 829 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:41,240 - So funny. 830 00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:43,640 - What's one skill that you've gained from this initiative 831 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,120 that you didn't expect? 832 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,600 - I would probably say, I don't know 833 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,680 that there's any skills I wasn't expecting to develop, 834 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,200 partly because going for these opportunities 835 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,440 was very intentional in carving a path to sort of 836 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,360 what my career might look like post university. 837 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:02,760 So I would say, if anything, 838 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,240 it's strengthened a lot of existing skills, 839 00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:10,480 collaboration, teamwork, adapting my language. 840 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:15,160 But you asked earlier if my experience 841 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,840 as a student partner has increased 842 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,080 my graduate employability. 843 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:21,680 Absolutely yes. 844 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:26,400 And further to Cassandra's point, yes I've developed 845 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,040 soft and technical skills as a student partner, 846 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,720 but the personal and professional confidence is what 847 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,080 made me feel like I could take the next steps. 848 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,680 So I'm now sitting on external committees, working groups, 849 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,360 we've travelled for conferences, 850 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,360 I'll be co-authored by the end of my degree. 851 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,360 And yes, Students As Partners is a space 852 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:49,920 that offered that opportunity 853 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,280 but more than anything, it was a space of 854 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,240 we believe you can do this, so give it a go. 855 00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:00,560 It was sort of a safe space for students to make mistakes 856 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,760 and flex their muscles, I suppose. 857 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,000 So I would absolutely not be in my current role, 858 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,160 and I certainly wouldn't be sitting here 859 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,680 if it hadn't been for Cassandra and Sam 860 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,120 and the staff involved in the projects to go, 861 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,640 well give it a go and will be here at the end either way. 862 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,240 So I'm trying not to get emotional now, but yeah. 863 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,160 - Please do it, let's get a close up on. 864 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,080 (group laughing) - Slow (indistinct). 865 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,440 - That's so cool though. Like, that's amazing. 866 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,760 And I think that's what through this podcast as well, 867 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,920 we're learning, is that if you have the opportunity 868 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,200 to sort of like do it 869 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,440 before you have to go out into the world and do it, 870 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,360 you know you can do it by the time you kind 871 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,320 of like leave the campus. 872 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,800 - And they might be industry specific skills. 873 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,680 I've been involved in thematic analysis and report writing. 874 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:52,440 So yes, it's great to do tasks that I envision in my career 875 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:53,840 and go, okay, great to know 876 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,720 that not only do I actually enjoy this, 877 00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:57,920 but I think I might be okay at it. 878 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,360 But it's also just being seen as a peer, 879 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,520 having pretty senior staff in the university turn to you 880 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,200 and go, "Well, what do you think? 881 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:09,840 I've spoken to Cassandra at length 882 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,320 before about how I think there's a bit 883 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,960 preconceived notion that university will shape you 884 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,280 into something useful, and you are here as a blank slate 885 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,160 to be turned into a productive member of society, 886 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,920 but students and staff a like are coming to campus every day 887 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,880 with a whole wealth of experience 888 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:28,800 behind them already. 889 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:29,760 So use it. 890 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:30,960 - Yeah. - Mm-hm. 891 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,640 - Gosh, if we could prepare every student for the first, 892 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,360 well, what do you think in a career where you're like, 893 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,200 "Ah, am I ready for this?" 894 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:41,840 - I remember the first time I was asked that, 895 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,560 and I don't think I'll forget it. 896 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,560 It already feels like a turning point, you know? 897 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:47,400 - Yeah. - Yes. 898 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:48,880 - Amazing. 899 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,880 Cassandra, what's a moment 900 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,760 that made you feel proud to be part of this programme? 901 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,800 You've spoken of many really today, but like- 902 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,240 - It's a great question. - Give us one. 903 00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:58,760 - I know there's so... 904 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,320 I mean, right now. (group laughing) 905 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,280 Like what's more? 906 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:03,840 Oh, I'm so... 907 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,520 I mean, you can probably tell that 908 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,120 I'm really passionate about this work. 909 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:09,640 - I'm not really getting that. - Not getting it? 910 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,120 No, I think I need to be a little bit more dramatic. 911 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,160 (group laughing) 912 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,560 I've really care deeply about the work that this 913 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:19,480 type of practise. 914 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,880 Students staff partnership is not the only way 915 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,080 to build trust and relationships and community and belonging 916 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:26,760 and to empower students 917 00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,920 and staff to make decisions, 918 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,440 to value our experience, our knowledge, our perspectives, 919 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,280 and to come together to collaborate 920 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,600 on shaping what a university looks like. 921 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,440 But it's a pretty darn powerful way to do that. 922 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,560 Like it is a tool that we have. 923 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,240 And we've, as I mentioned before, I'm really proud. 924 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:54,560 We actually just won an award, so shameless plug, 925 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,120 we won an international award 926 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:02,680 for leadership in student voice. 927 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,720 - Wow. Cool. - Yeah. 928 00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,040 (group clapping) 929 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:07,160 - The whole crew is clapping. 930 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,000 (group laughing) 931 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,600 - But it's an award that is for the whole university. 932 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,920 Because it's all of our students, all of our staff, 933 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,240 everyone who's been involved in engaging with this practise 934 00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,600 and developing the programme to what it is. 935 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,200 But it is something that I'm proud of. 936 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:27,200 We have different ways to engage in what it means to not, 937 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,160 the language that's used in the field 938 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,800 is often to democratise higher education. 939 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,040 And yes, that's true. 940 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,600 I think of it as returning 941 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,640 and learning from our Indigenous colleagues 942 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:46,160 and really recentering the values of country, 943 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:51,040 of land, of respect, relationship, dialogue, 944 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,280 coming together as community. 945 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:58,280 So any single moment that I see a student partner 946 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:05,600 step into their worth, like step into 947 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:09,240 what I already know and believe them to be capable of doing. 948 00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:10,360 Or you see a staff partner 949 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,000 or I walk through the cafe, how cool is this Alex? 950 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:14,720 When you're like walking through the cafe 951 00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:17,200 and you see a coffee conversation happening. 952 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:18,040 - Yes. - Yeah. 953 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,240 - And you're like, "Yes." Like that is so cool. 954 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:23,520 We are living and breathing it as a university. 955 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,000 Of course we have room to improve. 956 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,160 We are constantly learning 957 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,680 and we haven't got it dead right yet, 958 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,080 but we're absolutely moving in the right direction. 959 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,000 - Yeah. Amazing. 960 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,760 Final question to you, Alex. 961 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:41,000 What is one thing that you wish more staff 962 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,440 understood about students? 963 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,320 - Ooh, stay tuned for the podcast. 964 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:48,720 (group laughing) 965 00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:50,480 - All right. That's it. 966 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,120 - I think that we want to know where you're coming from. 967 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:57,240 We want to know the motivation behind 968 00:45:57,240 --> 00:45:58,680 how you structured the unit. 969 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:03,600 We want to know what obstacles you are coming up against. 970 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:08,120 I think we need to bring the human aspect back 971 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,480 to higher education a little bit. 972 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,280 And that goes both ways. 973 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,680 So I think don't keep students in the dark just 974 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,240 because you've been taught that that's what that 975 00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:18,520 hierarchical relationship should look like. 976 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,960 You know, pull the curtain back a little bit for students, 977 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,800 help them understand some of your decision making, 978 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,760 and don't be afraid to bring 979 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,120 that vulnerability into the classroom with you, 980 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,720 because it makes you a better educator. 981 00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:33,040 (group laughing) 982 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:33,880 - Yeah. Right. 983 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,720 And that's important because 984 00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:38,480 there's also dialogue internally, 985 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,640 but within the field more broadly 986 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,440 that leaning into some vulnerability 987 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,560 and humanising yourself in the process of engaging 988 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,840 with students will mean that you lose respect 989 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,920 and control and authority. 990 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:55,760 - Yeah. 991 00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,120 - And the opposite is so true, right? 992 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,600 - Yeah. - Like as we become human 993 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:07,240 and we establish relationships, then there's genuine trust 994 00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:11,080 and genuine respect that's reciprocal. 995 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,120 You know, it's not something to fear, 996 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:14,880 but I think that that is scary for some people. 997 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,160 But to know and to hear you say how important it is 998 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,080 from a student perspective that staff 999 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:25,080 are showing up as human and bringing that to their practise, 1000 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,600 I think is a powerful message. 1001 00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,320 - Well it's a great initiative 1002 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,200 and it's nice to hear that you can walk 1003 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,160 around the campus and even see some of the tangible results. 1004 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,800 And so all the best of luck for continuing into the future. 1005 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,400 Thank you so much, Cassandra 1006 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,840 and Alex for coming on "Stories of Wonder." 1007 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:43,800 - Thank you so much for having us. 1008 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,440 - Thanks for having us.