WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

00:00:10.520 --> 00:00:11.660
Silvercore Podcast.

00:00:13.310 --> 00:00:15.140
Join me as I discuss
matters related to

00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:17.690
hunting, fishing, and
outdoor pursuits with the

00:00:17.690 --> 00:00:20.120
people in businesses that
comprise the community.

00:00:20.900 --> 00:00:22.790
If you're a new to
Silvercore, be sure to

00:00:22.790 --> 00:00:26.990
check out our website,
www.Silvercore.ca where

00:00:26.990 --> 00:00:29.300
you can learn more about
courses, services, and

00:00:29.300 --> 00:00:31.490
products that we offer
as well as how you can

00:00:31.490 --> 00:00:34.129
join The Silvercore Club,
which includes 10 million

00:00:34.130 --> 00:00:36.320
in north America wide
liability insurance,to

00:00:36.570 --> 00:00:38.840
ensure you are properly
covered during your

00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:39.710
outdoor adventures.

00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:46.190
We are episode three
of the urban awareness

00:00:46.190 --> 00:00:48.170
series where our
discussions will revolve

00:00:48.170 --> 00:00:50.690
around what to expect
after the incident.

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But first Paul, now you
recalled something that

00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:55.970
you wanted to clear
up from episode two.

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Um, in the last podcast.

00:00:59.670 --> 00:01:03.569
I couldn't remember the
name of Brian Willis.

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And he is the president
of the, uh, of the

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Winning Mind Training
and company, er training.

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Uh, and that WIN
principle, what's

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important now, is
the most important

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question in life.

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And his training, uh,
tells you how to develop

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that concept and not
to horn in any more

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on him and issues with
copyright, but I just

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want to promote Brian
Willis at this point.

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And, uh, and his, what is
important now, principles

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for both everyday
living for normal people

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and police training.

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Excellent.

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Met him about out 30
something years ago

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in Ottawa, we were at
the Canadian Police

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College together,
and I was immediately

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struck with the guy.

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Uh, enjoyed, uh, the
time I spent with him

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stayed in touch for a
little bit lost track

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and sure enough, he
turns up, uh, delivering

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his WIN program at the,
um, I guess it was the,

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yeah, it was the, uh,
city Vancouver Tactical

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Training Centre and lo
and behold, there's Brian

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and I look at them and
one of the things that

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became important to him
was lose weight, and

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boy did he ever, he was
hardly recognizable,

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but that's that's it.

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Awesome.

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WIN, I like it.

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What's important now.

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Well, after you've
won, what happens?

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So we're in the after
now, we had the, before

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the, during and after,
now after, Paul, have

00:02:26.495 --> 00:02:29.165
you ever found yourself
in a situation where you

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have had a argument, or
disagreement, something's

00:02:32.165 --> 00:02:35.315
happened and you spend
a lot of time afterwards

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thinking about, oh, I
should've done this, or

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I should've said that.

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I think everyone's
had that.

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And there's a very easy
way to help minimize

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the effects of that.

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And that's by properly
preparing before and

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understanding what
this whole after

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section looks like.

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Yeah.

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The 20-20
hindsight, right?

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Tell me about it.

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Everyone's got that in
crystal clear vision.

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And, and, you know, that
happens with everything.

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You know, you buy a
car, uh, you've got20-20

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hindsight, buyer's
remorse, all those

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things, you know, that.

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And there's stress in
buying a car, I don't

00:03:12.929 --> 00:03:13.829
care who you are.

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There's you know, that
first meeting with

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another person who you
have an affection for,

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and you go, oh, as you're
driving away from the

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disaster of that meeting
and re-living the moment.

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But we're talking
about some serious

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stuff here and some
of the things that can

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affect you afterwards.

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And I know we alluded
to, um, Joseph Wambaugh

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and the onion field, and
you know, what happened

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to those officers
after the moment, but

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you really got to in
the planning stage for

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the three phases of,
you know, a critical

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incident, this now we
actually need to plan for

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post critical incident.

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Now the term PTSD post
traumatic stress disorder

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is, is used a lot.

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And it's a very,
very real thing.

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It's evolving.

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It, it does.

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And, and our treatment
of it and our acceptance

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of it, and our
recognition of who can

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be involved in an, in
it's not just a first

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responders thing as well.

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Um, it was interesting
today listening to local

00:04:23.145 --> 00:04:26.914
radio station, top of the
news, you know, they're

00:04:26.914 --> 00:04:29.195
going through some of
the highlights and in

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light of the recent, uh,
number of these open air

00:04:33.815 --> 00:04:37.805
shootings, uh, targeted
hits, they're asking the

00:04:37.805 --> 00:04:39.664
people, how do they feel?

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What do they think?

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And, and they're not only
reaching out to people

00:04:42.635 --> 00:04:45.065
who haven't experienced
that the, the public

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in general, but I think
they're starting to

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talk to the people that
are there and, and that

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can be, you know, a
lot of stuff going on.

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Um, survivor's
guilt is part of

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post-traumatic stress.

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Um, and that is E
nothing happened to me.

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I'm here and I feel
bad because, was there

00:05:09.045 --> 00:05:10.755
more I could have
done, Did I you know,

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put, you know what,
that's one, you should

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never feel bad about.

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Survivor's guilt, um, is,
you know, a real thing.

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Uh, it can be treated
of course, as any kind

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of, uh, disorder, as
a result of something

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like this, you know,
getting treated for it is

00:05:28.515 --> 00:05:31.515
probably one of the plans
you should have if you've

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been through something
like this and you think

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that you should just
ride it out afterwards

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and not talk to a pro.

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Forget about it.

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Pardon my expression,
but you're a crazy.

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Like that, uh, if you've
been somewhere and

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something of this high
order occurs in front of

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you and you're just gonna
shake it off and tell

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your friends, not good.

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So after an incident,
whether that was a

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physical altercation,
whether there's a weapon

00:06:01.865 --> 00:06:05.730
involved, whether,
uh, maybe it was just

00:06:05.730 --> 00:06:08.100
a verbal altercation
that somebody was in.

00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:11.060
How bought a horrible car
accident in front of you.

00:06:11.300 --> 00:06:11.750
Right.

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If I'm personally
involved in that

00:06:16.050 --> 00:06:18.390
incident, one of the
first things that I will

00:06:18.390 --> 00:06:22.440
tend to do is give a
quick rapid body survey,

00:06:22.469 --> 00:06:24.180
make sure I don't have
things sticking out

00:06:24.180 --> 00:06:25.530
to me that shouldn't
be sticking out at me.

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Maybe when the adrenaline
kicked in, I didn't feel

00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.830
things as I normally
would and make sure that

00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:34.350
there isn't any immediate
medical attention that I

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need in order to be able
to continue surviving

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after the first incident.

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So that's one
of the things.

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I will then look to
those around me and

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see, are they in
the same situation.

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Is everybody else okay.

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Right.

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Uh, and then there's
going to be the

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physiological effects
of the adrenaline

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wearing off and
the shakes and the.

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Extreme fatigue.

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Huge.

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And knowing that that's
normal, knowing that

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this is a very natural
response that the

00:07:04.159 --> 00:07:07.010
body has to critical
incident stress.

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And when all of this
stuff kinda, abates

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there, if the police are
involved, be prepared

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to be questioned as if
you were possibly the

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bad guy, the bad person.

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Yeah.

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So we'll just,
lets just clarify.

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And we'll talk,
you know, post

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incident, this is it.

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This is where you did get
involved in something.

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You were, you got,
you got physical with

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somebody or, or they
got physical with you.

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And, and there was,
there was a conflict,

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there was a physical,
uh, contact and

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everything went that way.

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Okay.

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So we'll keep our focus
on that maybe as, so

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in the immediate after
at, excellent, check

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yourself out, have
somebody else look, look

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through your hair, look
through all these other

00:07:51.620 --> 00:07:53.570
things, make sure that
there's nothing leaking.

00:07:53.960 --> 00:07:57.200
And because what happened
when, during, when you

00:07:57.200 --> 00:08:00.830
had that huge adrenaline
dump that also can send

00:08:00.830 --> 00:08:03.680
all kinds of, you know,
natural painkillers

00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:05.539
throughout your body to
keep you in the fight.

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And now that may start
to, uh, to start to

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show up, check the
people around you.

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Absolutely.

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One step before that,
are you a hundred

00:08:14.340 --> 00:08:15.900
percent safe at that
moment before we

00:08:15.909 --> 00:08:16.560
start doing that?

00:08:16.919 --> 00:08:19.770
Like, we need that
one in there now.

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Now we are safe.

00:08:20.880 --> 00:08:22.800
We've checked ourselves
out, we've gone over.

00:08:24.419 --> 00:08:26.789
The hands start to
shake, potentially.

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Um, and again, I it's,
it's a lot, uh, based on

00:08:31.469 --> 00:08:33.390
how much you've trained
beforehand, whether

00:08:33.390 --> 00:08:34.169
that's going to happen.

00:08:34.169 --> 00:08:37.049
And I gotta be, you know,
forthright with this,

00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:40.439
the, the person that got
through it, got through

00:08:40.439 --> 00:08:42.929
it on a minimal amount of
training without a whole

00:08:42.929 --> 00:08:46.590
lot of rehearsal, likely
to feel those immediate

00:08:46.590 --> 00:08:49.940
effects a little bit
more than the trained

00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:54.945
person and, you know, um,
your cognitive effects,

00:08:54.975 --> 00:08:57.495
starting to come back
at this point as well.

00:08:57.555 --> 00:08:59.895
Thinking of the bigger
picture, I have seen

00:08:59.895 --> 00:09:02.205
people that are just
they're, it's over,

00:09:02.205 --> 00:09:04.185
it's done, everything's
safe, but they're

00:09:04.215 --> 00:09:05.085
still not there.

00:09:05.535 --> 00:09:07.515
They're, you know,
running around in circles

00:09:07.515 --> 00:09:10.365
there they're having
problems processing what

00:09:10.365 --> 00:09:13.545
they just went through
and the more trained

00:09:13.545 --> 00:09:15.315
person is now realizing,
okay, what are the

00:09:15.315 --> 00:09:16.425
next steps involved?

00:09:16.995 --> 00:09:17.325
You know.

00:09:17.325 --> 00:09:21.345
So, uh, you know, I
don't know, without

00:09:21.345 --> 00:09:23.685
getting into too many
specifics, but you know,

00:09:23.955 --> 00:09:26.445
the subject is down
and out and there's

00:09:26.445 --> 00:09:27.615
no fight left in it.

00:09:28.365 --> 00:09:31.095
The one plus one rule, is
there anybody else, who's

00:09:31.095 --> 00:09:33.285
checking to see that,
who's watching, who's

00:09:33.285 --> 00:09:34.665
administering first aid?

00:09:35.025 --> 00:09:36.855
You know, all these
sorts of things

00:09:36.855 --> 00:09:39.135
are important, um.

00:09:40.995 --> 00:09:42.405
Make sure the
police are called if

00:09:42.405 --> 00:09:44.345
needed or ambulance

00:09:44.345 --> 00:09:44.675
.
Absolutely!

00:09:44.945 --> 00:09:46.875
Preservation of any
evidence that may be

00:09:46.875 --> 00:09:47.715
potentially there.

00:09:47.715 --> 00:09:50.385
All these things, you
know, are in that moment.

00:09:50.385 --> 00:09:52.485
But let's just, again,
going back to the

00:09:52.485 --> 00:09:58.035
handshaking, one of the
things that people want

00:09:58.035 --> 00:10:02.985
to do is now make it
look like they're normal

00:10:02.985 --> 00:10:07.305
and the emotion of maybe
some, like, maybe it's

00:10:07.305 --> 00:10:10.095
appropriate if I'm I'm
upset with myself and

00:10:10.365 --> 00:10:12.015
started saying things
like, oh, I should have

00:10:12.015 --> 00:10:12.885
done something else.

00:10:12.885 --> 00:10:14.255
Maybe this, you
know, when it

00:10:14.255 --> 00:10:15.075
turned out so bad.

00:10:15.205 --> 00:10:16.215
They start acting it up.

00:10:16.755 --> 00:10:17.085
Yeah.

00:10:17.145 --> 00:10:21.435
Uh, and w a true feeling
that comes from a lot

00:10:21.435 --> 00:10:25.155
of this stuff, if you
did win, and you did it

00:10:25.185 --> 00:10:30.225
successfully, is a sense
of overwhelming pride

00:10:30.225 --> 00:10:34.455
and satisfaction that
gee whiz, I did that.

00:10:35.715 --> 00:10:39.105
And you know, what, if
you've laid waste to

00:10:39.105 --> 00:10:42.225
somebody physically,
whatever the case may be,

00:10:42.825 --> 00:10:44.685
people started thinking,
well, you blood thirsty

00:10:44.685 --> 00:10:47.895
son of a gun, you know,
daughter of a gun maybe.

00:10:48.465 --> 00:10:50.835
And, and how dare
you feel good

00:10:50.835 --> 00:10:51.585
about what you did?

00:10:51.615 --> 00:10:53.085
Well, it's not wrong.

00:10:53.595 --> 00:10:54.585
No, it's natural.

00:10:54.645 --> 00:10:56.415
And, and, and now we're
going to save this for

00:10:56.415 --> 00:10:59.445
just a little bit later
in the aftermath, and

00:10:59.475 --> 00:11:02.595
who's appropriate to
tell this to, but don't

00:11:02.595 --> 00:11:04.335
hide that from yourself.

00:11:04.605 --> 00:11:07.905
It's not a wrong
thing to feel in that

00:11:07.935 --> 00:11:09.615
immediate aftermath.

00:11:09.645 --> 00:11:13.755
It's not, you know, pride
in yourself, relief.

00:11:15.194 --> 00:11:16.905
You want to
congratulate yourself.

00:11:16.905 --> 00:11:18.705
You, you know, you,
you, you go, oh my

00:11:18.705 --> 00:11:23.255
God, I like, that was
me that ended that.

00:11:23.385 --> 00:11:24.525
There's nothing
wrong with that.

00:11:24.985 --> 00:11:25.415
Mhmm.

00:11:25.905 --> 00:11:29.085
Now turning around to
the TV camera, that's

00:11:29.085 --> 00:11:31.035
shown up and they shove
a microphone in your

00:11:31.035 --> 00:11:34.215
face and wanting to,
you know, fist pump

00:11:34.215 --> 00:11:36.735
and, and everything else
in that circumstance,

00:11:37.515 --> 00:11:38.425
we'll save it.

00:11:38.455 --> 00:11:38.675
Right.

00:11:38.675 --> 00:11:39.745
High five's for everyone.

00:11:40.545 --> 00:11:40.835
Yeah.

00:11:41.115 --> 00:11:42.465
Let's not do that
at that moment.

00:11:42.795 --> 00:11:45.165
Whereas you've seen
time and time again in

00:11:45.165 --> 00:11:47.415
a critical incident,
law enforcement, the

00:11:47.415 --> 00:11:51.075
military, uh, they've,
they've gone and just

00:11:51.585 --> 00:11:54.495
overcome a situation
of extreme stress.

00:11:54.915 --> 00:11:56.415
And the next thing you
know, they high five

00:11:56.415 --> 00:11:58.185
each other, and that
gets captured on camera.

00:11:58.245 --> 00:11:58.575
Right.

00:11:58.905 --> 00:11:59.595
Well, you know what.

00:12:00.945 --> 00:12:03.765
There's no context there
because nobody who's

00:12:03.765 --> 00:12:07.095
watching that on TV or
in the taping afterwards

00:12:07.455 --> 00:12:09.375
has the emotions that
those people have.

00:12:09.525 --> 00:12:11.175
And were they
wrong emotions?

00:12:11.865 --> 00:12:12.465
No.

00:12:12.975 --> 00:12:15.525
Were they expressed
incorrectly and was

00:12:15.525 --> 00:12:16.485
it captured on tape?

00:12:16.575 --> 00:12:17.415
Absolutely.

00:12:18.145 --> 00:12:20.745
And you know, and then
these things are hard

00:12:20.745 --> 00:12:24.495
for the people, the non
sheepdogs to appreciate.

00:12:25.305 --> 00:12:27.525
And, and, and you know
what, the wolves are

00:12:27.525 --> 00:12:29.295
not just the people
that are attacking you.

00:12:30.105 --> 00:12:32.475
The wolves are out
there in society

00:12:32.475 --> 00:12:36.305
because they want to
suppress the sheepdog.

00:12:37.115 --> 00:12:39.405
Sheepdog is always
a threat to a wolf.

00:12:39.795 --> 00:12:42.105
Now the wolves may
not be physically

00:12:42.105 --> 00:12:44.595
attacking, but the wolves
have agendas, right.

00:12:45.735 --> 00:12:47.265
I'm getting a little
bit political here,

00:12:47.265 --> 00:12:49.185
but that's the
way I really feel.

00:12:49.415 --> 00:12:49.905
Mhmm.

00:12:49.905 --> 00:12:50.965
I don't disagree
with you.

00:12:50.965 --> 00:12:53.505
And if you can belittle
the sheepdog for doing

00:12:53.505 --> 00:12:57.420
what the sheepdog
does, the sheep who

00:12:57.420 --> 00:12:59.890
has no grounding
in the sheepdog's

00:12:59.910 --> 00:13:00.810
purpose sees it.

00:13:00.810 --> 00:13:03.000
So anyways, getting back
to in the immediate,

00:13:04.680 --> 00:13:06.589
don't be embarrassed
by that feeling of,

00:13:06.589 --> 00:13:07.680
of a sense of pride.

00:13:07.680 --> 00:13:08.339
That's a good point.

00:13:08.370 --> 00:13:08.819
Okay.

00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:11.550
Don't be, you know, don't
be upset about that.

00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:14.550
So we're in the immediate
here, your physical

00:13:14.550 --> 00:13:15.959
self is taken care of.

00:13:16.260 --> 00:13:18.510
You're feeling some
different emotions.

00:13:18.540 --> 00:13:19.110
Okay.

00:13:19.589 --> 00:13:21.569
Uh, don't be afraid
of that feeling that

00:13:21.689 --> 00:13:23.610
that said I did the
right thing and don't

00:13:23.610 --> 00:13:26.490
feel there's a huge
obligation at that moment

00:13:26.490 --> 00:13:28.560
to start explaining
what you just did.

00:13:31.530 --> 00:13:34.500
Law enforcement arrives,
first aid arrives,

00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:37.770
whatever it's that
big of a thing they

00:13:37.770 --> 00:13:38.610
need to talk to you.

00:13:40.040 --> 00:13:41.930
Interesting thing
about law enforcement

00:13:41.930 --> 00:13:43.550
arriving, just a
bit of a side note.

00:13:44.810 --> 00:13:47.175
Whoever calls law
enforcement in

00:13:47.175 --> 00:13:49.335
first tends to
wear a white hat.

00:13:50.285 --> 00:13:52.955
So if you're able to
get on your cell phone

00:13:52.955 --> 00:13:57.335
and get it out there
that, uh, you are the

00:13:57.335 --> 00:14:01.235
reportee uh, you are
that entity that has

00:14:01.235 --> 00:14:02.735
called the police.

00:14:02.765 --> 00:14:03.995
Yeah, that's a good plan.

00:14:04.115 --> 00:14:06.275
And that, that is, and
then you also set a bit

00:14:06.275 --> 00:14:09.335
of a stage by, you know,
relating a little bit,

00:14:09.845 --> 00:14:13.055
but what you got to be
careful of is if you

00:14:13.055 --> 00:14:16.955
did cause physical harm
to another individual,

00:14:17.345 --> 00:14:20.225
even though it was in
complete defense of your

00:14:20.225 --> 00:14:23.795
own self, you don't want
to be too willing to try

00:14:23.795 --> 00:14:26.885
and explain everything
in the moment, because

00:14:26.885 --> 00:14:31.625
what you're not realizing
is in that 24 hours

00:14:31.625 --> 00:14:35.735
following an extremely
stressful event, you're

00:14:35.735 --> 00:14:38.315
still suffering those
effects, those good

00:14:38.315 --> 00:14:40.295
effects that you had of.

00:14:41.985 --> 00:14:45.675
Um, I suppose like we
call it, uh, a wrinkle

00:14:45.675 --> 00:14:48.705
in the space time
continuum, but really

00:14:48.765 --> 00:14:51.135
visual narrowing,
auditory, exclusion,

00:14:51.435 --> 00:14:55.275
um, depth perception,
all of these things are

00:14:55.275 --> 00:14:56.535
altered in the moment.

00:14:56.625 --> 00:14:57.165
Okay.

00:14:57.645 --> 00:15:02.055
Um, people, you know,
say, oh man, I got the

00:15:02.055 --> 00:15:05.415
guy and the time it took
for him to, you know, to

00:15:05.415 --> 00:15:08.505
do you really don't have
the grounding to start

00:15:08.505 --> 00:15:09.995
talking a lot about that.

00:15:10.055 --> 00:15:11.945
You're kind of the
worst possible witness

00:15:12.095 --> 00:15:13.235
to your own event.

00:15:13.355 --> 00:15:13.685
Right.

00:15:13.715 --> 00:15:15.335
Because you've
got a very, very

00:15:15.335 --> 00:15:16.925
narrow perspective
of what happened.

00:15:17.315 --> 00:15:19.295
Whereas somebody
else looking at this

00:15:19.655 --> 00:15:22.685
might have a much
better perspective.

00:15:23.795 --> 00:15:26.915
And one of the things
we see in today's world

00:15:26.915 --> 00:15:31.155
is the reliability of
eye witness accounts of

00:15:31.155 --> 00:15:31.935
what really happened.

00:15:32.625 --> 00:15:34.935
A really good
investigator will

00:15:34.935 --> 00:15:37.964
rely much more on the,
whatever they have

00:15:37.964 --> 00:15:39.405
for physical evidence.

00:15:39.435 --> 00:15:42.045
You know, so where the,
you know, the blood

00:15:42.045 --> 00:15:45.255
splatter is, where the
casing lands, all those

00:15:45.255 --> 00:15:48.975
things are way more,
you know, absolute than

00:15:48.975 --> 00:15:50.475
what a person says.

00:15:50.505 --> 00:15:52.515
And I would just,
honestly, from having

00:15:52.515 --> 00:15:55.155
been there myself,
say look, I want to be

00:15:55.155 --> 00:15:57.435
completely cooperative
with everybody right

00:15:57.435 --> 00:16:02.084
now, but my statement
may be affected by the

00:16:02.084 --> 00:16:03.194
feelings that I have.

00:16:03.194 --> 00:16:05.175
And that's, that's the
thing, be prepared to say

00:16:05.175 --> 00:16:10.485
that I'm not withholding
anything, but without

00:16:10.485 --> 00:16:14.415
having the chance to
talk to someone who's not

00:16:14.415 --> 00:16:18.435
involved and the time for
me to gather my thoughts.

00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:20.880
I will give you
a full statement

00:16:21.210 --> 00:16:23.130
tomorrow, or later.

00:16:24.090 --> 00:16:27.480
And it's very tough for,
and haven't been one

00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.050
for as long as I was,
for cop to accept that.

00:16:30.599 --> 00:16:30.819
Right.

00:16:30.819 --> 00:16:31.249
And say.

00:16:31.249 --> 00:16:31.830
They're not good.

00:16:31.830 --> 00:16:33.150
They're not going to
want to, they want

00:16:33.150 --> 00:16:33.810
the whole story.

00:16:33.810 --> 00:16:35.370
They want it now, they
want to get the report

00:16:35.370 --> 00:16:38.610
written and, and get
the investigation

00:16:38.610 --> 00:16:40.189
underway and all
these other things.

00:16:40.189 --> 00:16:41.720
Well if you've got
nothing to hide, why

00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:42.350
wouldn't you talk?

00:16:42.350 --> 00:16:42.650
That's right.

00:16:42.890 --> 00:16:44.120
Yes, exactly.

00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:45.680
And that's, you
know, that is it.

00:16:45.680 --> 00:16:47.189
And you don't have
anything to hide, but.

00:16:47.189 --> 00:16:47.400
You don't.

00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:50.600
But in the interest and
you got to, you know,

00:16:50.610 --> 00:16:52.819
explain and articulate
this properly, in the

00:16:52.819 --> 00:16:54.620
interest of accuracy,
I'm not prepared.

00:16:54.620 --> 00:17:00.225
Now, if the situation is
still ongoing, somebody

00:17:00.225 --> 00:17:01.485
has fled the scene.

00:17:01.725 --> 00:17:04.694
That's still important
to the investigation, by

00:17:04.694 --> 00:17:09.014
all means, you gotta give
what sketchy details as

00:17:09.045 --> 00:17:10.935
possible, but you need
to preface everything

00:17:10.935 --> 00:17:11.395
that you're saying.

00:17:11.474 --> 00:17:12.675
It's like, you know,
I'm telling you this,

00:17:12.675 --> 00:17:15.194
now this is the best
I understand but the,

00:17:15.405 --> 00:17:17.504
my absolute statement
that I'm going to live

00:17:17.504 --> 00:17:20.625
and die for or buy is
not coming right now.

00:17:20.655 --> 00:17:23.115
This isn't it, I'm,
I'm too close to the

00:17:23.115 --> 00:17:26.234
incident for you to,
you know, uh, listen

00:17:26.254 --> 00:17:29.120
all this stuff and, and
it is, it's very, very

00:17:29.120 --> 00:17:31.610
tough to accept on the
part of an investigator,

00:17:31.900 --> 00:17:32.650
but you know what?

00:17:32.770 --> 00:17:33.700
This is you.

00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.920
As I was sitting in
the major crime office,

00:17:38.980 --> 00:17:40.930
I had been given my
rights that I didn't

00:17:40.930 --> 00:17:43.060
have to say anything,
you know, just like on

00:17:43.060 --> 00:17:46.240
TV and I'm there and I
said, yeah, that's fine,

00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:47.230
I've called my lawyer.

00:17:47.320 --> 00:17:51.040
Um, there is a
post-incident team that

00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:53.500
will come and talk to
you, they're on their way

00:17:53.500 --> 00:17:54.399
to come and talk to me.

00:17:54.399 --> 00:17:57.810
But the, the sergeant
comes in and he says to

00:17:57.810 --> 00:18:00.510
me, he says, you know,
uh, I know you, you

00:18:00.530 --> 00:18:02.280
said you don't want to
say anything until you

00:18:02.280 --> 00:18:05.190
speak to your lawyer,
but the forensic guys

00:18:05.190 --> 00:18:07.710
at the scene, they
can't find the casing

00:18:08.430 --> 00:18:09.180
from your pistol.

00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:11.970
Uh, is there any chance
you picked it up?

00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.550
We just need that and
you know, and I said, no,

00:18:14.580 --> 00:18:17.700
it's in the mop bucket
in the hallway next to

00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:18.570
where I was standing.

00:18:19.020 --> 00:18:23.200
Cause now going back
to the moment and, and,

00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.200
and all the things that
were going on when I

00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:29.070
fired that shot in my
peripheral vision, I

00:18:29.070 --> 00:18:31.800
saw the case arc up out
of the ejection port of

00:18:31.800 --> 00:18:34.470
the pistol and somewhere
deep in the back of my

00:18:34.470 --> 00:18:36.520
head, I still heard the
plunk sizz, and actually

00:18:36.540 --> 00:18:39.690
a sizzle plunk of that
case going into a mop

00:18:39.690 --> 00:18:42.149
bucket, it was in the
hallway of, of where the

00:18:42.149 --> 00:18:42.899
shooting had occurred.

00:18:44.610 --> 00:18:47.380
And I could see the
look on the sergeants

00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.480
face like, oh, and
he's on the cell phone.

00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:51.970
Okay rainman.

00:18:51.970 --> 00:18:54.810
He's on the cell phone
to the forensic guy.

00:18:54.870 --> 00:18:57.000
That's there
who's was a guy.

00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:58.680
I know actually a
hunting partner.

00:18:59.070 --> 00:19:01.650
And, uh, he goes, what?

00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:03.390
You can hear
him saying this.

00:19:03.930 --> 00:19:05.400
So anyways, got it.

00:19:05.730 --> 00:19:07.540
And they just said,
got it, and that's

00:19:07.560 --> 00:19:08.070
where it was.

00:19:09.570 --> 00:19:11.190
But weird.

00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:12.870
I took that in,
in that moment.

00:19:13.290 --> 00:19:16.740
And you know, so, but the
point being is I wasn't

00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:22.050
saying anything, I talked
to my lawyer, I gave the

00:19:22.050 --> 00:19:25.350
statement to my lawyer,
um, that I recalled,

00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:26.880
he was fine with that.

00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:30.584
We got back together
later the next morning,

00:19:31.155 --> 00:19:33.195
uh, to review the
statement, which

00:19:33.195 --> 00:19:35.475
he had recorded and
then prepared for my

00:19:35.475 --> 00:19:38.084
signature, which we were
going to offer up and

00:19:38.084 --> 00:19:38.745
everything was fine.

00:19:38.745 --> 00:19:41.315
There was no, you know,
there was no big if,

00:19:41.315 --> 00:19:43.605
ands or anything, but we
wanted to get distances

00:19:43.605 --> 00:19:44.564
and everything correct.

00:19:45.165 --> 00:19:49.155
And, um, that next
day I went about some

00:19:49.155 --> 00:19:50.834
business, which is
another interesting

00:19:50.834 --> 00:19:53.564
thigh side to things,
gave my statement.

00:19:54.195 --> 00:19:58.635
And then I get, you
know, in the police

00:19:58.635 --> 00:20:00.824
world, what happens now
is they say, you know,

00:20:01.605 --> 00:20:03.615
always sounds suspicious,
the officer has been

00:20:03.615 --> 00:20:05.145
put on paid leave.

00:20:05.175 --> 00:20:08.175
But they just basically
say, Hey, you know.

00:20:08.385 --> 00:20:09.014
Take some time.

00:20:09.074 --> 00:20:09.645
Take some time.

00:20:09.824 --> 00:20:11.024
And they want you
to take some time.

00:20:13.514 --> 00:20:15.405
In that time thing, the
only thing I wanted to do

00:20:15.405 --> 00:20:16.455
was go back to the scene.

00:20:16.485 --> 00:20:17.925
I really wanted
to see it again.

00:20:17.925 --> 00:20:19.605
There was no
opportunity to do that.

00:20:20.185 --> 00:20:23.685
I, you know, took
my couple of weeks,

00:20:23.685 --> 00:20:27.135
whatever it was at
the time, uh, went

00:20:27.135 --> 00:20:28.425
about my regular life.

00:20:28.425 --> 00:20:31.544
I'll tell you, uh, in
that period of time,

00:20:32.835 --> 00:20:35.294
one of the things
that bothered me more

00:20:35.294 --> 00:20:37.395
than anything, um, you
know, and, and things

00:20:37.395 --> 00:20:39.825
will irritate you is
everybody wants to

00:20:39.825 --> 00:20:41.985
hear the story over and
over and over again.

00:20:42.185 --> 00:20:42.605
Right.

00:20:43.455 --> 00:20:47.075
And that's
totally normal.

00:20:47.375 --> 00:20:48.615
It's normal for
people to want, cause

00:20:48.615 --> 00:20:49.245
they want to learn.

00:20:49.304 --> 00:20:49.854
They want to hear.

00:20:50.074 --> 00:20:50.294
Right.

00:20:50.294 --> 00:20:52.475
And there's nothing wrong
with talking about it.

00:20:53.580 --> 00:20:55.620
But there's certain
people that you

00:20:55.620 --> 00:20:57.480
probably want to avoid
talking to it about it.

00:20:57.510 --> 00:21:00.060
It's been, I sought out
a couple other people

00:21:00.060 --> 00:21:02.280
that have been there
and those were the ones

00:21:02.280 --> 00:21:03.120
I want to talk about.

00:21:03.419 --> 00:21:04.679
And that's nothing
wrong with that.

00:21:04.679 --> 00:21:08.820
So in that post
situation, if, if

00:21:08.820 --> 00:21:11.490
you can find somebody
to relate to, and in

00:21:11.490 --> 00:21:14.610
many cases, you know,
the, the post critical

00:21:14.610 --> 00:21:18.149
incident team that, uh,
those are people that

00:21:18.149 --> 00:21:22.409
have been there and
they have, um, empathy.

00:21:22.970 --> 00:21:23.330
Right.

00:21:23.750 --> 00:21:25.429
And I think you
bring up a good

00:21:25.429 --> 00:21:27.110
point about talking
about it afterwards.

00:21:27.560 --> 00:21:29.389
It's an important thing
to do, but there's a

00:21:29.389 --> 00:21:31.700
right way and a wrong
way, to talk about it

00:21:31.909 --> 00:21:36.585
because, as research
looks at how our brains

00:21:36.585 --> 00:21:38.635
work or prefrontal
cortex which has got

00:21:38.655 --> 00:21:41.775
our decision-making and
our short-term memory

00:21:41.775 --> 00:21:43.995
and our hippocampus
we'll take our long-term

00:21:43.995 --> 00:21:47.165
memory, our amygdala
will hold our emotions.

00:21:47.285 --> 00:21:50.495
And as we start
processing certain

00:21:50.495 --> 00:21:52.535
types of events
and our prefrontal

00:21:52.535 --> 00:21:56.015
cortex, it'll start
downloading hard copies

00:21:56.015 --> 00:21:58.025
into your hippocampus
and your amygdala.

00:21:58.415 --> 00:22:01.920
And even though you
aren't actually in a

00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.500
certain situation at that
certain time, you will

00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:07.560
recount those emotions as
if you were, and if you

00:22:07.560 --> 00:22:10.530
continually download the
information into those,

00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:13.080
into those storage banks.

00:22:13.080 --> 00:22:14.550
It's like a
flushing almost.

00:22:14.570 --> 00:22:15.780
In the improper way.

00:22:15.870 --> 00:22:19.410
It's like, and I, and I
liken it to going down

00:22:19.410 --> 00:22:22.140
a dirt road and you wore
some tracks in there.

00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:24.420
The more you drive the
same road, the deeper

00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:26.640
those tracks get, and the
harder it is to get out,

00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.570
which is a big part about
where PTSD, critical

00:22:30.570 --> 00:22:36.240
incident stress and PTSD,
um, theory and therapy

00:22:36.270 --> 00:22:37.650
is being worked on.

00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:40.590
How do we get the brain
out of that rut and

00:22:40.590 --> 00:22:42.510
those tracks in order
to be able to view the

00:22:42.510 --> 00:22:45.870
same from a perspective
as it ought to be.

00:22:46.110 --> 00:22:48.110
So talking
important, I told.

00:22:48.150 --> 00:22:48.630
Yes.

00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:50.580
Talking to the police at
the time of the event.

00:22:50.820 --> 00:22:52.320
You're the worst
possible witness.

00:22:52.350 --> 00:22:52.650
Nope.

00:22:53.024 --> 00:22:54.855
Yeah, you're not a good
witness at that time.

00:22:55.425 --> 00:22:58.034
Talking it out with
somebody, the idea is

00:22:58.034 --> 00:22:59.655
also about culpability.

00:22:59.985 --> 00:23:03.375
You know, if there's any,
um, somebody wants to

00:23:03.375 --> 00:23:05.745
make some suggested that
you did something wrong.

00:23:05.774 --> 00:23:08.415
Do you remember anybody
you talk to, uh, can

00:23:08.415 --> 00:23:12.524
also be called later,
uh, as, as a, you know,

00:23:12.554 --> 00:23:13.754
as a witness to you.

00:23:13.844 --> 00:23:16.304
So, you know, the
best person to talk to

00:23:16.304 --> 00:23:19.505
about this is somebody
who cannot testify

00:23:19.505 --> 00:23:22.265
against you, which
is your psychologist

00:23:22.265 --> 00:23:24.275
or a psychiatrist or
someone like that.

00:23:24.785 --> 00:23:27.185
And getting in and
before that person to do

00:23:27.185 --> 00:23:30.275
your initial download,
oh, the lawyer also

00:23:30.275 --> 00:23:31.385
is very good, lawyers.

00:23:31.415 --> 00:23:31.865
Sure.

00:23:32.405 --> 00:23:33.665
You know, and
they can listen.

00:23:33.665 --> 00:23:35.045
They may have no
grounding in it, but

00:23:35.045 --> 00:23:37.355
they can certainly,
uh, listen to you.

00:23:37.355 --> 00:23:38.945
And then the lawyer is
not gonna look at you

00:23:38.945 --> 00:23:40.715
say, geez, you should
leave that part out

00:23:40.715 --> 00:23:41.315
of your statement.

00:23:41.345 --> 00:23:42.305
Cause they don't do that.

00:23:42.365 --> 00:23:42.605
No.

00:23:42.815 --> 00:23:44.705
You know, that's
not what they do.

00:23:45.185 --> 00:23:47.465
I mean, if you've really
done some significant

00:23:47.465 --> 00:23:49.835
harm to somebody,
but you got out of

00:23:49.835 --> 00:23:53.065
it that way, a lawyer
is definitely there.

00:23:54.095 --> 00:23:56.995
If the whole situation
we're talking about is

00:23:56.995 --> 00:23:59.995
maybe you've defended
yourself against a sexual

00:23:59.995 --> 00:24:02.065
attack or a robbery.

00:24:02.335 --> 00:24:02.575
Okay.

00:24:03.355 --> 00:24:06.505
Um, talk, one of the
things you see the

00:24:06.505 --> 00:24:08.005
police is I only get
my statement now, but

00:24:08.005 --> 00:24:09.475
I sure want to talk to
somebody and I want to

00:24:09.475 --> 00:24:10.525
talk to the right people.

00:24:11.125 --> 00:24:14.185
In today's world, most
of the time that police

00:24:14.185 --> 00:24:16.255
might be the very best
resource you have for

00:24:16.255 --> 00:24:17.515
directing you to do that.

00:24:18.929 --> 00:24:20.580
Despite everything
that people want to

00:24:20.580 --> 00:24:23.490
say, today's police
officer is trained to

00:24:23.490 --> 00:24:26.520
understand the effects
of post traumatic stress.

00:24:27.169 --> 00:24:31.070
And they are told, they
are told that victims

00:24:31.100 --> 00:24:31.909
are going to feel that.

00:24:32.389 --> 00:24:34.909
And almost every agency
has some form of victim

00:24:34.909 --> 00:24:38.990
services, uh, that will
be available to you.

00:24:38.990 --> 00:24:41.250
And, and don't, don't
be that person that's,

00:24:41.280 --> 00:24:42.919
ohh, I don't want to
talk to anybody about

00:24:42.919 --> 00:24:44.240
this, you know, I'm
going to be okay.

00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:46.280
I'm going to run home
until my wife and tell,

00:24:46.280 --> 00:24:48.469
you know, my friends and
I'm going to, you know,

00:24:48.469 --> 00:24:49.370
have a couple of beers.

00:24:49.370 --> 00:24:50.389
Cause it was
exciting too.

00:24:50.389 --> 00:24:52.820
That's that's another
tendency that you

00:24:52.820 --> 00:24:56.060
have, you know, like,
wow, I'm, I'm alive

00:24:56.060 --> 00:24:57.020
and I'm okay and.

00:24:57.020 --> 00:24:57.560
You're happy.

00:24:57.560 --> 00:25:00.169
Well, you know, there's
probably a much more male

00:25:00.169 --> 00:25:02.209
thing to do, you know,
but to go out and get

00:25:02.209 --> 00:25:04.429
together with your buds
and tell them about it.

00:25:05.689 --> 00:25:09.679
Um, some people can be
effected at a deeply,

00:25:09.679 --> 00:25:12.620
deeply emotional
level by this.

00:25:13.490 --> 00:25:15.020
You got to
deal with that.

00:25:15.050 --> 00:25:17.159
And the sooner
it happens.

00:25:18.360 --> 00:25:20.430
And done with a
professional who can

00:25:20.490 --> 00:25:22.470
carry you forward,
that's a good thing.

00:25:22.730 --> 00:25:24.360
And it's going to affect
everyone differently.

00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:24.530
Yeah.

00:25:24.530 --> 00:25:26.810
I mean, people are gonna
have different, uh,

00:25:26.840 --> 00:25:28.400
cognitive resiliencies.

00:25:28.520 --> 00:25:30.500
Uh, they're going to be
in different situations.

00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:33.740
I remember talking about
a, um, uh, uh, there was

00:25:33.740 --> 00:25:37.880
a study once about these
vets from world war one

00:25:37.910 --> 00:25:41.180
fighting in world war
two in some horrific

00:25:41.180 --> 00:25:44.750
instances where they
figured that the younger,

00:25:44.750 --> 00:25:47.750
stronger soldiers would
be out surviving the

00:25:47.750 --> 00:25:50.180
older ones and they
found the inverse was

00:25:50.180 --> 00:25:53.000
true because the older
ones had developed these

00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:56.150
cognitive resiliencies
and they look at, and

00:25:56.150 --> 00:25:57.810
they say, you know, my,
my second divorce was

00:25:57.830 --> 00:25:58.840
worse than this, right?

00:25:58.850 --> 00:26:01.160
Like, whereas a young
guys in there, this is

00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:02.460
a worst thing that's
ever happened to them.

00:26:02.780 --> 00:26:04.910
And you know, again,
going back to the

00:26:04.910 --> 00:26:07.040
policing and I don't mean
to bore people by talking

00:26:07.040 --> 00:26:08.390
about, but it's what
I know, what I've been

00:26:08.390 --> 00:26:10.610
around in a lot of cases.

00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:15.030
Um, some of the, the
crazier stuff that I've

00:26:15.030 --> 00:26:18.030
been involved in while I
was on duty, I would have

00:26:18.030 --> 00:26:20.730
rather been surrounded
by, you know, a bunch of

00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:23.850
gray haired, fat guys,
you know, that, uh, could

00:26:23.850 --> 00:26:26.250
keep their wits about
them than the strongest

00:26:26.250 --> 00:26:27.540
fittest, you know.

00:26:27.580 --> 00:26:28.149
Right.

00:26:28.520 --> 00:26:29.300
That are there.

00:26:29.370 --> 00:26:32.940
And, and I hate to say
that and no disrespect

00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:34.890
to people who maintain
a high level of physical

00:26:34.890 --> 00:26:36.990
fitness and everything
else, but gray hair

00:26:37.070 --> 00:26:39.750
and some experience can
sometimes be a little

00:26:39.750 --> 00:26:41.970
bit better, even though
you don't think they

00:26:41.970 --> 00:26:43.750
have the physical,
uh, abilities, but.

00:26:44.060 --> 00:26:46.200
A couple other things
like, you know,

00:26:46.610 --> 00:26:49.880
immediately after, if
the thing that happened

00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:53.420
is big enough and
almost everything is

00:26:53.420 --> 00:26:55.910
big enough today, it's
going to hit the media.

00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.160
And then you're
going to have a

00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:59.900
whole bunch of people
armchair quarterback,

00:26:59.900 --> 00:27:00.530
what you did.

00:27:00.590 --> 00:27:00.920
Right.

00:27:03.645 --> 00:27:06.435
Doing podcast, funny
enough, people armchair

00:27:06.435 --> 00:27:07.605
quarterback what you say.

00:27:08.185 --> 00:27:09.265
Yeah, they do.

00:27:09.284 --> 00:27:12.135
And you know, it's as a
person who tries to pride

00:27:12.135 --> 00:27:14.235
himself in the ability
to communicate things,

00:27:14.235 --> 00:27:16.335
sometimes you're not
communicating, you know,

00:27:16.335 --> 00:27:18.705
your point correctly,
or the other person

00:27:18.705 --> 00:27:20.834
wants to take something
tangentially away.

00:27:20.925 --> 00:27:21.154
Sure.

00:27:21.455 --> 00:27:23.595
And then you, you, you
know, your dander gets

00:27:23.595 --> 00:27:26.745
up when you go, does this
person just not get it?

00:27:26.774 --> 00:27:28.754
Did I not communicate
everything correctly?

00:27:28.754 --> 00:27:30.435
And they're never,
we're never gonna make

00:27:30.435 --> 00:27:32.435
everybody happy, but
yeah, if you've been in

00:27:32.435 --> 00:27:35.405
it and all of a sudden,
and this happened,

00:27:35.495 --> 00:27:39.155
listening on the radio
the next day to a chief

00:27:39.155 --> 00:27:41.764
of police, it wasn't
really a chief of police

00:27:41.764 --> 00:27:44.195
because that organization
never had them, is

00:27:44.195 --> 00:27:46.205
being interviewed on
the local radio station.

00:27:46.955 --> 00:27:49.565
And he's telling
everybody about, you

00:27:49.565 --> 00:27:53.044
know, all the things that
the officer involved in

00:27:53.044 --> 00:27:55.115
the shooting yesterday
would be feeling and

00:27:55.115 --> 00:27:57.095
everything else, and
I'm going, you know,

00:27:58.245 --> 00:27:59.025
you weren't there.

00:27:59.205 --> 00:27:59.715
Right.

00:28:00.015 --> 00:28:00.705
You weren't there.

00:28:01.095 --> 00:28:03.135
And I had the opportunity
to track that guy down.

00:28:03.405 --> 00:28:06.195
After I had done my,
you know period of time

00:28:06.195 --> 00:28:08.325
off, he happened to be
making a presentation

00:28:08.625 --> 00:28:09.825
on that very subject.

00:28:10.395 --> 00:28:12.375
And I made a point
of going and I went

00:28:12.375 --> 00:28:13.935
up to him afterwards
and I says, you know,

00:28:14.415 --> 00:28:16.485
you've been talking a
lot about this stuff.

00:28:17.445 --> 00:28:19.935
You talked about me,
you never met me, you

00:28:19.935 --> 00:28:22.455
never interviewed me,
you weren't at the scene.

00:28:22.755 --> 00:28:25.005
And you made a whole
bunch of things

00:28:25.395 --> 00:28:27.185
into factual points.

00:28:27.465 --> 00:28:27.815
Yes.

00:28:27.845 --> 00:28:28.995
That weren't factual.

00:28:30.035 --> 00:28:32.525
And I think that
is human nature.

00:28:32.565 --> 00:28:32.785
Oh!

00:28:33.335 --> 00:28:34.985
You want to fill in
the blanks, right.

00:28:35.015 --> 00:28:35.405
Totally.

00:28:36.095 --> 00:28:39.635
But it's so difficult
for the person who

00:28:39.635 --> 00:28:42.305
is in it for the
survivor of the event.

00:28:42.425 --> 00:28:44.495
Who knows exactly
what went on.

00:28:44.585 --> 00:28:44.975
Right.

00:28:45.215 --> 00:28:46.865
And it comes down to.

00:28:47.730 --> 00:28:49.770
And when we talk about
being a witness to our

00:28:49.770 --> 00:28:51.389
own event, and maybe
we're not the best and

00:28:51.389 --> 00:28:53.159
me being a third-party
witness watching would

00:28:53.159 --> 00:28:55.530
be better, but maybe
not the most reliable as

00:28:55.530 --> 00:28:59.760
well, even video cameras
are being shown to be

00:28:59.760 --> 00:29:02.879
an unreliable witness in
certain circumstances.

00:29:02.879 --> 00:29:04.470
I remember I was at a
conference and there

00:29:04.470 --> 00:29:06.210
was some guys that are
doing some high-level

00:29:06.780 --> 00:29:10.020
forensics work with video
and looking at about

00:29:10.020 --> 00:29:12.419
the frame rate and lost
frames and the speed

00:29:12.419 --> 00:29:14.070
that it goes at and end.

00:29:14.070 --> 00:29:16.740
It can actually tell
a different story than

00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:18.000
what really happens.

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.639
So I guess what I'm
trying to get at

00:29:20.639 --> 00:29:24.419
with all of this is,
everybody's different.

00:29:24.600 --> 00:29:26.790
Everyone's going to have
different resiliencies.

00:29:26.909 --> 00:29:30.240
Everyone's going to find
themselves in a situation

00:29:30.330 --> 00:29:32.760
maybe they leave and it
means nothing to them.

00:29:32.790 --> 00:29:34.500
Or maybe it's a worst
thing in the world to

00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:37.830
them, whatever it is,
this critical incident

00:29:37.830 --> 00:29:40.949
stress that they're
feeling is a natural

00:29:40.949 --> 00:29:44.669
physiological response
to an unnatural event.

00:29:44.939 --> 00:29:45.629
And that's it.

00:29:45.629 --> 00:29:47.919
And they should just
simply accept that for

00:29:47.919 --> 00:29:50.550
it, what it is, how
I'm feeling right now,

00:29:50.790 --> 00:29:53.580
whether it's the guilt,
whether it's the anger,

00:29:53.580 --> 00:29:56.010
whether it's a depression
or whatever it might be.

00:29:56.399 --> 00:29:59.340
Hey, this is actually
pretty natural in the

00:29:59.340 --> 00:30:01.680
same way is if I got
a hammer to my knee

00:30:01.699 --> 00:30:05.419
cap and that hurts,
is a natural response.

00:30:05.510 --> 00:30:07.090
And everyone's going to
be a little different

00:30:07.090 --> 00:30:08.909
in how that reacts.

00:30:08.929 --> 00:30:09.350
Correct.

00:30:09.860 --> 00:30:11.360
And I got a funny
story on that one.

00:30:11.360 --> 00:30:13.220
But if you get that
hammer to the kneecap,

00:30:14.835 --> 00:30:16.635
do you just go home and
put some ice on it or

00:30:16.635 --> 00:30:18.645
do you go get x-rays
and get a doctor to look

00:30:18.645 --> 00:30:20.415
at it and tell you to
put it back together?

00:30:20.505 --> 00:30:20.835
Right.

00:30:20.935 --> 00:30:24.135
And this is the thing
your emotions may not be

00:30:24.135 --> 00:30:26.025
good enough just to put a
little bit of ice on it.

00:30:27.105 --> 00:30:29.955
And the underlying
thing of a very high

00:30:29.955 --> 00:30:35.285
level stress incident
to you is it's, it's

00:30:35.295 --> 00:30:36.315
gotta be dealt with.

00:30:36.465 --> 00:30:37.685
It's got, it and, and.

00:30:37.685 --> 00:30:38.735
And the sooner
the better.

00:30:38.805 --> 00:30:39.175
Correct.

00:30:39.175 --> 00:30:43.035
And so, and you're,
you're, you're going to

00:30:43.035 --> 00:30:44.985
go forward and you're
going to listen to that

00:30:45.195 --> 00:30:47.475
person, the right person
as well, pick and choose.

00:30:47.475 --> 00:30:47.805
Okay.

00:30:47.805 --> 00:30:50.925
It's it's like, um, you
know, do some reviews on,

00:30:50.945 --> 00:30:53.445
on who the person is, you
know, you, you don't want

00:30:53.445 --> 00:30:57.375
to go to, you know, uh,
uh, a particular field of

00:30:57.375 --> 00:31:00.705
study psychologist that
doesn't deal with post

00:31:00.705 --> 00:31:01.785
critical incident stress.

00:31:01.785 --> 00:31:03.800
I mean, you know,
the Randy Mackoffs,

00:31:03.825 --> 00:31:05.855
the Georgia Nemetz,
those type of people.

00:31:05.885 --> 00:31:06.075
Right.

00:31:06.075 --> 00:31:06.645
They know.

00:31:06.735 --> 00:31:07.065
Right.

00:31:07.275 --> 00:31:08.555
They are the
ones that you'll.

00:31:08.555 --> 00:31:11.505
And both of them happened
to work with police.

00:31:11.555 --> 00:31:11.615
Yeah.

00:31:11.685 --> 00:31:12.015
Police.

00:31:12.110 --> 00:31:14.580
And that's where,
you know, we gotta be

00:31:14.580 --> 00:31:15.540
upfront about this.

00:31:15.540 --> 00:31:17.580
The people in the
military, people in

00:31:17.580 --> 00:31:20.400
the police, um, all the
first responders are

00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.680
much more likely to have
experienced this stuff.

00:31:23.340 --> 00:31:25.920
And, and, and, and,
and that's the thing.

00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.570
So, you know, reach out
to these people, um.

00:31:28.570 --> 00:31:30.330
The one point on
that though, if,

00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:31.510
if I can quickly.

00:31:32.810 --> 00:31:33.170
One of many.

00:31:33.170 --> 00:31:33.540
The one of many.

00:31:33.540 --> 00:31:36.260
If I can quickly
interject is, quite

00:31:36.260 --> 00:31:40.129
often, I find that the,
an, a person who finds

00:31:40.129 --> 00:31:42.350
themselves in a situation
like this will look and

00:31:42.350 --> 00:31:44.720
say, well, I'm not a,
I'm not a police officer.

00:31:45.050 --> 00:31:46.970
I don't see the
atrocities that

00:31:46.970 --> 00:31:48.830
they see, I'm not a
soldier, I haven't

00:31:48.830 --> 00:31:50.390
seen the atrocities
that they've seen.

00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.940
Regardless of your
background, whatever the

00:31:55.940 --> 00:31:58.910
effects you're feeling
could be the exact same

00:31:58.940 --> 00:32:01.430
as what somebody has
seen an atrocity to

00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:03.590
something, the effects
that are having on your

00:32:03.590 --> 00:32:04.400
mind and your body.

00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:06.890
And there is there's
one story that I read

00:32:07.610 --> 00:32:10.470
talking about PTSD
uh, I don't know if we

00:32:10.470 --> 00:32:12.419
talked about this one
before Paul, the, uh,

00:32:12.419 --> 00:32:13.409
the chocolate bar eater.

00:32:13.590 --> 00:32:14.250
Have you heard this one?

00:32:14.280 --> 00:32:14.460
Nope.

00:32:14.850 --> 00:32:15.000
Okay.

00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:16.950
So this guy goes
he's in the states.

00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:19.950
He goes into a corner
store and he gets

00:32:19.950 --> 00:32:22.320
himself a chocolate
bar, gets halfway

00:32:22.320 --> 00:32:24.270
through the chocolate
bar before he realizes

00:32:24.270 --> 00:32:25.260
it's full of maggots.

00:32:25.679 --> 00:32:26.159
Okay.

00:32:26.429 --> 00:32:29.230
Goes to the shopkeeper,
says chocolate bar's

00:32:29.250 --> 00:32:31.020
got maggots in it,
I'm pretty revolted.

00:32:31.020 --> 00:32:33.240
Shop keeps us, sorry,
here's a refund,

00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.919
get yourself another
chocolate bar, whatever,

00:32:34.919 --> 00:32:35.550
have a good day.

00:32:35.550 --> 00:32:36.870
The guys good,
he goes home.

00:32:38.010 --> 00:32:39.690
But then he starts
having nightmares and

00:32:39.690 --> 00:32:41.700
dreams about magots
being in his food.

00:32:41.879 --> 00:32:43.020
And then he says he
doesn't want to go

00:32:43.020 --> 00:32:43.800
to church anymore.

00:32:43.800 --> 00:32:45.330
Cause he figures
everyone's going to

00:32:45.330 --> 00:32:47.190
be talking about him
and laughing at him.

00:32:47.190 --> 00:32:49.280
He's humiliated as
the magot eater.

00:32:49.409 --> 00:32:49.740
Right.

00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:52.260
And then he's having
these recurring thoughts.

00:32:52.260 --> 00:32:53.760
He's having avoidance
of things that

00:32:53.760 --> 00:32:54.629
he usually likes.

00:32:54.629 --> 00:32:57.560
He's having depression,
all off of eating

00:32:57.679 --> 00:33:00.440
something that some
people in the world would

00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:01.700
readily eat anyways.

00:33:01.700 --> 00:33:01.860
Right.

00:33:02.010 --> 00:33:03.800
Just worms, larva,
maggots, whatever

00:33:03.800 --> 00:33:04.340
it might be.

00:33:05.040 --> 00:33:06.660
You or I might look
at this and say,

00:33:06.690 --> 00:33:09.150
that's nothing, but
how that affected this

00:33:09.150 --> 00:33:12.330
person exhibited all
the signs of PTSD.

00:33:12.690 --> 00:33:15.900
So if somebody listening
to this finds themselves

00:33:15.900 --> 00:33:19.020
in a situation, then they
say, well, I don't, I'm

00:33:19.020 --> 00:33:21.900
embarrassed to go see
a doctor, to talk about

00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:24.990
somebody because I'm
having these thoughts

00:33:24.990 --> 00:33:26.430
or it's affecting
me in these ways.

00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:29.490
I'm feeling grief, fear,
guilt, intense anger,

00:33:29.490 --> 00:33:32.340
irritability, chronic
anxiety, apprehension,

00:33:32.340 --> 00:33:33.750
or, or depression.

00:33:33.750 --> 00:33:35.790
And yes, I'm reading this
off of a list right now,

00:33:36.270 --> 00:33:40.230
but these are all sort of
the emotional things that

00:33:40.260 --> 00:33:41.430
that can be happening.

00:33:42.210 --> 00:33:43.020
It doesn't matter.

00:33:43.500 --> 00:33:45.090
It, no, one's going
to think less of you.

00:33:45.090 --> 00:33:46.770
You've got to get
that addressed.

00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:49.490
Absolutely.

00:33:49.520 --> 00:33:52.370
Now, and you know,
as you're saying that

00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.550
there's real symptoms
and if you're not

00:33:55.550 --> 00:33:57.800
trained to recognize
these real symptoms,

00:33:58.875 --> 00:34:01.395
they're gonna, it's, it's
gonna, it's gonna go.

00:34:01.695 --> 00:34:04.425
Um, one of the things
that was really noted

00:34:04.425 --> 00:34:07.665
with people who weren't
getting treatment after,

00:34:07.785 --> 00:34:10.005
you know, and in the
police world and in

00:34:10.005 --> 00:34:13.335
today's police world, man
is as soon as something

00:34:13.364 --> 00:34:15.824
sketchy has occurred
while you're working, the

00:34:15.824 --> 00:34:19.425
supervisors are there,
the managers are on top

00:34:19.425 --> 00:34:22.605
of the supervisors to
make sure that everybody

00:34:22.605 --> 00:34:24.135
gets it addressed.

00:34:26.279 --> 00:34:28.199
Guys used to, you know,
back in the old days.

00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:30.029
And I mean, the old
days were when I first

00:34:30.029 --> 00:34:32.460
started in the late
seventies, you know,

00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:35.730
something happened, it
was straight to the, you

00:34:35.730 --> 00:34:39.449
know, the liquid, um,
you know, self-medicate,

00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:41.790
and, and let's sit around
those, you know, little

00:34:41.790 --> 00:34:43.949
tables and we'll talk
this out, lots of laughs

00:34:43.949 --> 00:34:44.460
and everything else.

00:34:44.460 --> 00:34:44.819
Right.

00:34:45.060 --> 00:34:47.669
And you know what, it
was very reassuring

00:34:47.669 --> 00:34:50.129
at the time everybody
had a, a good go

00:34:50.129 --> 00:34:51.389
with it and so on.

00:34:51.389 --> 00:34:54.359
And what happened,
uh, with that kind

00:34:54.359 --> 00:34:56.399
of treatment for that
kind of an incident.

00:34:56.759 --> 00:34:59.069
It really had no long
lasting effect in

00:34:59.069 --> 00:35:00.660
the moment it felt
good to have a couple

00:35:00.660 --> 00:35:03.029
of drinks, uh, numb
yourself a little bit

00:35:03.060 --> 00:35:05.370
and, and go home, sleep
it off, or do whatever

00:35:05.370 --> 00:35:05.970
you were going to do.

00:35:06.715 --> 00:35:09.175
But the cumulative
effect, if, if you don't

00:35:09.175 --> 00:35:11.635
get things treated and
this is where, when

00:35:11.635 --> 00:35:14.035
you, you, you hear about
people like, oh, you

00:35:14.035 --> 00:35:17.605
know, they saw something
horrible happen and you

00:35:17.605 --> 00:35:19.615
know, they didn't really
feel that bad about it.

00:35:19.615 --> 00:35:21.685
And then they something
else, you know, and you

00:35:21.685 --> 00:35:24.235
know, the old happen in
threes, I really believe

00:35:24.235 --> 00:35:25.495
in that things, you know.

00:35:25.495 --> 00:35:27.715
So when people say,
well, I've seen something

00:35:27.715 --> 00:35:29.035
like this, it's never
going to happen again.

00:35:29.065 --> 00:35:29.515
Oh, boom.

00:35:29.515 --> 00:35:30.445
It happens, you know?

00:35:30.445 --> 00:35:31.105
And then, yeah.

00:35:31.155 --> 00:35:34.455
And then the third time
after it's over, they

00:35:34.455 --> 00:35:35.475
completely breakdown.

00:35:35.955 --> 00:35:36.405
Mm.

00:35:37.185 --> 00:35:39.674
And maybe the third
time wasn't that big,

00:35:39.944 --> 00:35:42.944
but there was something
in their psyche that

00:35:43.125 --> 00:35:45.585
triggered all this other
stuff that they were

00:35:45.585 --> 00:35:47.325
holding back and I'm no
psychologist or anything

00:35:47.325 --> 00:35:49.605
else, but, but we see
it again and again in

00:35:49.634 --> 00:35:51.375
untreated people, right.

00:35:51.375 --> 00:35:53.595
That's the important
part being, you know,

00:35:53.924 --> 00:35:55.395
unarmed for the next one.

00:35:56.384 --> 00:35:57.855
And the only way you're
going to get armed and

00:35:57.855 --> 00:35:59.984
prepared for the next
one is to get that

00:35:59.984 --> 00:36:00.825
professional help.

00:36:00.975 --> 00:36:01.365
Right.

00:36:01.395 --> 00:36:03.555
So we got to tell
it and, and nobody

00:36:03.555 --> 00:36:04.694
should be ashamed.

00:36:04.964 --> 00:36:08.475
And a traumatic
event could be seeing

00:36:08.475 --> 00:36:09.404
a car accident.

00:36:11.055 --> 00:36:14.685
A traumatic event could
be seeing somebody fall

00:36:14.685 --> 00:36:17.595
off a mountain side while
you're rock climbing,

00:36:17.595 --> 00:36:20.955
you know, watch somebody
fall and get hurt, right.

00:36:21.484 --> 00:36:23.984
A traumatic event to
some people could be

00:36:23.984 --> 00:36:27.900
seeing literally a body
being taken out of a, you

00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:29.630
know, a drowning victim
or something like that.

00:36:29.630 --> 00:36:29.880
Sure.

00:36:29.910 --> 00:36:32.190
That, you know, you
don't need to see that.

00:36:32.190 --> 00:36:34.650
And that's one of the
things, again, societaly,

00:36:34.650 --> 00:36:36.870
we'll see, you know,
whole people going, oh

00:36:36.870 --> 00:36:37.650
my God, look at that.

00:36:37.650 --> 00:36:39.360
There's a yellow blanket
over that person,

00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:40.560
let's see if we can
get a little closer.

00:36:41.250 --> 00:36:43.200
No, you don't
need to see that.

00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:44.940
Leave it.

00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:48.080
Don't subject yourself
to it anymore then you've

00:36:48.510 --> 00:36:49.350
put something in there.

00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:51.360
You don't need to
wonder about it or

00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:54.030
anything else, because
it will actually

00:36:54.030 --> 00:36:55.080
help you continue on.

00:36:56.190 --> 00:36:57.030
You don't need
to get close.

00:36:57.030 --> 00:36:58.200
You don't need
to see blood or

00:36:58.200 --> 00:36:58.800
anything like that.

00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:00.450
It's, it's shocking
how people will come

00:37:00.450 --> 00:37:02.310
up and want to take
pictures of blood

00:37:02.310 --> 00:37:02.760
and everything else.

00:37:02.790 --> 00:37:03.720
You don't need that
because you were

00:37:03.720 --> 00:37:07.050
actually, and especially
if you drag a kid up to

00:37:07.050 --> 00:37:08.300
see it or anything else.

00:37:08.330 --> 00:37:08.420
Right.

00:37:08.420 --> 00:37:09.930
You don't know what
that does to kids.

00:37:09.930 --> 00:37:12.690
So, uh, be um.

00:37:12.750 --> 00:37:13.370
That's a good point.

00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:15.740
You know, you're
not only responsible

00:37:15.740 --> 00:37:17.600
in the after-effect
for yourself, the

00:37:17.600 --> 00:37:18.500
rapid body survey.

00:37:18.500 --> 00:37:18.710
You're.

00:37:18.710 --> 00:37:18.860
Yeah.

00:37:19.620 --> 00:37:21.480
And your emotional
wellbeing and physical

00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.730
well-being, you're
responsible for your

00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:26.250
loved ones and those that
you care for and make

00:37:26.250 --> 00:37:29.550
sure that maybe you're
not the right person for

00:37:29.550 --> 00:37:30.750
them to be talking with.

00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:32.750
Right.

00:37:32.980 --> 00:37:34.959
And maybe, it's
just engrained.

00:37:34.959 --> 00:37:36.170
Like, it's like, you
don't know how your

00:37:36.170 --> 00:37:37.910
kid took it, what they
saw and everything

00:37:37.910 --> 00:37:38.540
else like that.

00:37:38.640 --> 00:37:41.630
And that has happened,
you know, a bit of my own

00:37:41.630 --> 00:37:42.410
life and everything else.

00:37:42.460 --> 00:37:44.960
You don't realize how,
you know, emotionally

00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:49.040
sensitive your kid might
be or how much damage

00:37:49.040 --> 00:37:50.870
you can do to your kid
by saying, oh, just

00:37:50.870 --> 00:37:53.290
toughen up and, you know,
get on with it right.

00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:55.490
They don't even have
to be at the incident.

00:37:55.520 --> 00:37:57.980
But they're responding
to you after the

00:37:58.250 --> 00:37:59.990
incident and how
you're dealing with it.

00:38:00.410 --> 00:38:01.310
That's a good point.

00:38:01.670 --> 00:38:06.450
Um, a couple other things
too, and, and, in the,

00:38:07.410 --> 00:38:10.980
um, old days when they
first started, you know,

00:38:11.220 --> 00:38:14.670
in the very experimental
days of looking towards

00:38:14.670 --> 00:38:18.150
post-traumatic stress
and the syndrome or

00:38:18.150 --> 00:38:20.610
the disease or disorder
that would follow that,

00:38:21.150 --> 00:38:23.580
they would tell you,
get, get ready for this.

00:38:24.780 --> 00:38:26.590
And I did kind of
mention this, I think.

00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:27.530
You did yes.

00:38:27.810 --> 00:38:30.810
But, but truthfully,
don't listen to that,

00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:35.100
you know, because the
self-fulfilling, um.

00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:36.090
Prophecies.

00:38:36.180 --> 00:38:38.220
Suggestions or
prophecies, because

00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:41.250
you're, you know, again,
you're, you're, you're

00:38:41.310 --> 00:38:44.430
not fragile, but you're
open to suggestion and.

00:38:44.430 --> 00:38:44.590
Yep.

00:38:44.590 --> 00:38:46.110
In these things and
you think, oh my

00:38:46.110 --> 00:38:49.200
God, I've just seen
this horrible thing

00:38:49.230 --> 00:38:50.310
what's happening next.

00:38:50.310 --> 00:38:51.960
And here's how I
should respond next.

00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:54.000
And you will, and you
don't want to do that.

00:38:54.030 --> 00:38:54.330
Right.

00:38:54.420 --> 00:38:55.410
So, you know, watch that.

00:38:55.470 --> 00:39:00.240
Again, if, if
you shed a tear.

00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:03.240
And you can't sleep
about something

00:39:03.390 --> 00:39:04.530
you're affected by it.

00:39:05.820 --> 00:39:09.990
And if you shed a
tear, when you just

00:39:09.990 --> 00:39:11.880
think about something
after it's happened

00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:13.680
a day or two, and you
can't sleep a couple

00:39:13.680 --> 00:39:14.550
of days afterwards.

00:39:14.670 --> 00:39:15.270
You're affected.

00:39:15.390 --> 00:39:16.710
Oh yeah.

00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.870
You know, those are
the things that, you

00:39:18.870 --> 00:39:20.400
know, you, you've got
to reach out and it's

00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.910
free in our system and
it's there, but going

00:39:23.910 --> 00:39:26.730
back to it, don't think
because you're not an

00:39:26.730 --> 00:39:29.510
official that you can't
be affected by this

00:39:29.950 --> 00:39:31.320
stuff and to go on.

00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:33.840
So I think we're good
in talking in the

00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:35.820
immediate, you know,
the self-assessment,

00:39:36.240 --> 00:39:39.210
we're talking in the
kind of short term of

00:39:39.210 --> 00:39:40.310
getting the treatment.

00:39:40.450 --> 00:39:45.920
So the long-term, if it
was something was being

00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:52.410
initiated by a criminal
act, you need to expect

00:39:52.410 --> 00:39:55.950
that there's going likely
to be the requirement

00:39:55.950 --> 00:39:59.609
for you to recall
everything and maybe to

00:39:59.609 --> 00:40:03.359
give evidence in court,
um, have your statement

00:40:03.359 --> 00:40:07.140
that was provided at the
time be reviewed and,

00:40:07.160 --> 00:40:08.580
and, and, and that stuff.

00:40:08.580 --> 00:40:10.439
And that this becomes
another time where you

00:40:10.439 --> 00:40:14.370
need to arm yourself for,
for a secondary attack.

00:40:15.899 --> 00:40:20.819
Because remember, uh,
there are lots and lots

00:40:20.819 --> 00:40:23.520
of wolves out there
and, and another form

00:40:23.520 --> 00:40:28.500
of wolf appears to be
the person who would

00:40:28.529 --> 00:40:29.850
defend them in court.

00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:31.890
And you know what
the defense lawyer is

00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.200
just doing their job.

00:40:34.980 --> 00:40:37.440
They have no, nothing
personal against you

00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:39.630
or anything else,
but suddenly you're,

00:40:39.650 --> 00:40:40.890
you're put up there.

00:40:41.130 --> 00:40:43.319
Uh, you're, you're
promising to tell

00:40:43.319 --> 00:40:46.110
everything the truth and
this person's job is to

00:40:46.110 --> 00:40:49.620
make you second guess
every single thing that

00:40:49.620 --> 00:40:51.180
you know that happened.

00:40:51.630 --> 00:40:55.440
So in preparation for
that court case, talk

00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:58.799
to the prosecutor who
will be able to give

00:40:58.799 --> 00:41:01.710
you, you know, the,
the legalities of what

00:41:01.710 --> 00:41:03.509
you need to understand
about all this.

00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.630
May, if the prosecutor
is particularly good,

00:41:06.630 --> 00:41:09.690
give you some, again,
arrows in your quiver to

00:41:09.690 --> 00:41:11.910
deal with the questions
that might be coming up

00:41:11.940 --> 00:41:15.000
by maybe running a bit
of a mock trial, you

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:17.130
know, without the actual
thing happening, all

00:41:17.130 --> 00:41:18.630
these sorts of things,
but you're ready for

00:41:18.630 --> 00:41:22.980
it because peeling the
scab off, you know, the

00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:24.060
you're just about healed.

00:41:24.060 --> 00:41:27.420
There's a scab on there
and that court case could

00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:31.020
very well pull the scab
off and get you thinking

00:41:31.020 --> 00:41:31.860
about everything else.

00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:35.070
So it's not wrong if that
happens and you have an

00:41:35.070 --> 00:41:38.250
emotional reaction to
recounting what's there.

00:41:38.580 --> 00:41:40.560
And it could be two
years in our system,

00:41:40.560 --> 00:41:43.640
two, three years from
the time of the incident.

00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.190
And that's just
for criminal, it

00:41:46.190 --> 00:41:47.120
could be civil.

00:41:47.240 --> 00:41:47.870
Oh yeah.

00:41:47.900 --> 00:41:48.240
Now think.

00:41:48.240 --> 00:41:49.010
Eight years later.

00:41:49.070 --> 00:41:49.730
Well let's yeah.

00:41:49.730 --> 00:41:51.500
Let's talk about
the civil, that's

00:41:51.500 --> 00:41:52.490
the car accident.

00:41:52.520 --> 00:41:52.790
Right.

00:41:52.940 --> 00:41:55.250
That's the, you know,
the other thing, you

00:41:55.250 --> 00:41:58.880
know, you saw somebody
slide down a collapsed

00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:00.440
escalator in the mall.

00:42:00.470 --> 00:42:02.570
Uh, you know, those
things will, will come.

00:42:02.570 --> 00:42:06.260
So again, being prepared
to, you know, have

00:42:06.260 --> 00:42:08.840
that return of those
emotions and then in

00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:09.830
turn dealing with that.

00:42:09.830 --> 00:42:14.300
So we, you know, we,
we make it so important

00:42:14.300 --> 00:42:16.820
that you survived the
incident, whatever it is.

00:42:17.910 --> 00:42:19.790
But surviving,
the aftermath

00:42:19.790 --> 00:42:20.899
can be, you know.

00:42:20.899 --> 00:42:21.899
It's massive.

00:42:21.899 --> 00:42:22.109
Massive.

00:42:22.109 --> 00:42:27.230
And that's probably
in days of yore where

00:42:27.230 --> 00:42:28.400
we slipped up right.

00:42:28.430 --> 00:42:32.150
And it was interesting,
you know, we saw probably

00:42:32.150 --> 00:42:37.430
the first real, you know,
in your face is, is the

00:42:37.430 --> 00:42:39.230
post Vietnam war time.

00:42:39.799 --> 00:42:43.640
When the first world war
was fought, our brave

00:42:43.640 --> 00:42:46.940
young men, uh, and, and
a lot of horses were

00:42:46.940 --> 00:42:50.060
shipped off to places
unknown, you know, that

00:42:50.060 --> 00:42:52.190
we couldn't communicate
that well with.

00:42:52.190 --> 00:42:54.830
And when we came back,
we lauded them as heroes.

00:42:55.160 --> 00:42:56.690
And we looked at
those guys that were

00:42:56.690 --> 00:42:58.880
nervous and shaking
and couldn't deal with

00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:00.410
things as being cowards.

00:43:00.470 --> 00:43:00.670
Right.

00:43:00.670 --> 00:43:03.830
But by four and away,
those were the guys

00:43:03.830 --> 00:43:05.810
that, you know, suffered
the greatest effects.

00:43:06.600 --> 00:43:09.240
In a lot of other
cases, these guys

00:43:09.240 --> 00:43:10.800
that went off and they
came back, they were

00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.170
welcomed with open arms.

00:43:12.190 --> 00:43:14.160
They were, they were
loved for what they

00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:17.250
did and, and, you
know, affection and

00:43:17.250 --> 00:43:20.190
emotion can, you know,
um, again, I'm not a

00:43:20.190 --> 00:43:22.680
psychologist everyone,
there is no doctor

00:43:22.680 --> 00:43:23.880
before the Ballard here.

00:43:24.180 --> 00:43:26.400
But what I'm saying is
it was different times.

00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:30.180
The second world war,
those guys came back and

00:43:30.180 --> 00:43:33.450
we were happy cause they,
you know, they, they put,

00:43:33.780 --> 00:43:37.080
uh, fascism in its place
and they saved people

00:43:37.080 --> 00:43:39.180
and they did all sorts
of things and we loved

00:43:39.180 --> 00:43:41.370
them and there were still
guys going to hospital

00:43:41.370 --> 00:43:43.020
and they were shaking
and they couldn't deal

00:43:43.020 --> 00:43:45.360
with whatever, but we
didn't hear about that.

00:43:46.310 --> 00:43:48.740
Well, there's a support
system in society

00:43:48.770 --> 00:43:49.610
for these people.

00:43:49.650 --> 00:43:50.240
That's right.

00:43:50.240 --> 00:43:50.860
That supports.

00:43:50.860 --> 00:43:51.970
It's accepted and.

00:43:52.080 --> 00:43:53.900
That affection,
that love, that, you

00:43:53.900 --> 00:43:55.130
know, that welcoming.

00:43:55.310 --> 00:43:57.410
It frames how you
individually look at

00:43:57.410 --> 00:44:00.830
the event differently if
you have that support,

00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:02.720
if you don't have
that support, because

00:44:02.780 --> 00:44:04.895
really, or what is it?

00:44:05.384 --> 00:44:06.105
Shakespeare?

00:44:06.255 --> 00:44:08.384
Uh, w what does he say?

00:44:08.384 --> 00:44:09.884
There is neither
good, nor bad, but

00:44:09.884 --> 00:44:10.935
thinking makes it so.

00:44:11.525 --> 00:44:14.025
The way that we look at
things or Viktor Frankl,

00:44:14.055 --> 00:44:15.975
the fellow who was in
the concentration camps,

00:44:16.005 --> 00:44:18.585
lost everyone, everyone
he loved and he was a

00:44:18.585 --> 00:44:21.765
doctor, and he looked
at the effects of these

00:44:22.455 --> 00:44:26.025
Nazi concentration camps
on the psyche of people

00:44:26.025 --> 00:44:26.625
while he's in there.

00:44:26.625 --> 00:44:28.545
And he used his
time as a bit of an

00:44:28.545 --> 00:44:31.245
experiment mentally to
keep himself rolling.

00:44:31.665 --> 00:44:34.035
And he says, how come
some people can laugh and

00:44:34.035 --> 00:44:37.335
joke, and other people
are absolutely falling

00:44:37.335 --> 00:44:40.154
apart and they're both
in the same situation.

00:44:40.305 --> 00:44:43.035
And he came out with what
was his famous quote?

00:44:43.545 --> 00:44:45.545
The one thing that
you can't take from

00:44:45.545 --> 00:44:48.134
me is the way that I
choose to respond to

00:44:48.134 --> 00:44:48.855
what you do to me.

00:44:48.855 --> 00:44:50.895
The last of life's
great freedoms is one's

00:44:50.895 --> 00:44:54.795
ability to choose their
own attitude in any

00:44:54.795 --> 00:44:56.085
given circumstance.

00:44:56.475 --> 00:44:59.565
And so really being
able to choose your

00:44:59.565 --> 00:45:02.985
own attitude sometimes
is predicated on

00:45:03.765 --> 00:45:04.695
those around you.

00:45:04.695 --> 00:45:08.865
If everyone looks at you
as the bad person, or

00:45:08.865 --> 00:45:11.745
they look at what you do
as a joke in a story that

00:45:11.745 --> 00:45:15.525
they tell over beers,
perhaps you start looking

00:45:15.525 --> 00:45:16.545
at it in the same way.

00:45:17.165 --> 00:45:18.295
But you can't allow
that to happen.

00:45:18.305 --> 00:45:19.685
Let's let's continue on.

00:45:19.685 --> 00:45:22.055
So second world
war, they come back.

00:45:22.055 --> 00:45:24.125
Everything's, you know,
there are people clearly

00:45:24.125 --> 00:45:26.545
affected, but the
majority are welcomed

00:45:26.545 --> 00:45:27.605
back Vietnam war.

00:45:27.930 --> 00:45:28.379
Right.

00:45:28.529 --> 00:45:31.109
These guys, these us
soldiers, Marines,

00:45:31.109 --> 00:45:33.089
airmen, sailors
coming back, they're

00:45:33.089 --> 00:45:34.290
called baby killers.

00:45:34.379 --> 00:45:34.560
Right.

00:45:34.589 --> 00:45:37.109
Ah, you know, huge
protests against the war

00:45:37.379 --> 00:45:39.270
and without getting into
politics, whether that

00:45:39.270 --> 00:45:40.319
war was wrong or right.

00:45:40.319 --> 00:45:42.779
And look at how long it
lasts a day, it lasted

00:45:42.779 --> 00:45:47.730
from 1961 or two all the
way through, you know, 10

00:45:47.730 --> 00:45:49.049
years of this going on.

00:45:49.350 --> 00:45:51.299
And it was always kind
of a bit of a shadow

00:45:51.299 --> 00:45:54.660
war and, and, you know,
with the ideals of,

00:45:55.140 --> 00:45:57.330
you know, suppressing
communism, but never

00:45:57.330 --> 00:46:01.170
really fought in the
fashion that a powerful

00:46:01.170 --> 00:46:03.029
nation like the United
States would fight.

00:46:03.029 --> 00:46:05.475
It was always sort
of fringe methods,

00:46:05.745 --> 00:46:06.435
measures, right?

00:46:06.435 --> 00:46:09.465
There was no, there
was an old overwhelming

00:46:09.465 --> 00:46:10.905
defeat of the enemy.

00:46:11.085 --> 00:46:14.535
There was no real, um,
at the end of it all.

00:46:14.565 --> 00:46:15.375
There's no win.

00:46:15.555 --> 00:46:17.295
There was no win, there
was no completion.

00:46:17.295 --> 00:46:19.215
There was no satisfaction
that we went and

00:46:19.215 --> 00:46:19.965
did the right thing.

00:46:20.205 --> 00:46:22.035
And then when we get
back, our own people

00:46:22.035 --> 00:46:25.395
are, you know, baby
killers and, you

00:46:25.395 --> 00:46:26.595
know, horrible things.

00:46:26.955 --> 00:46:30.495
And that's when we really
saw the preponderance of

00:46:30.495 --> 00:46:31.755
post-traumatic stress.

00:46:31.785 --> 00:46:32.025
Right.

00:46:32.445 --> 00:46:34.935
These Vietnam vets
that were, you know,

00:46:34.935 --> 00:46:38.775
starting to act out and
do things and, and go on,

00:46:38.775 --> 00:46:39.825
and this is the start.

00:46:39.825 --> 00:46:43.605
And then, you know, as
we have evolved in our

00:46:43.605 --> 00:46:47.265
recognition of, of how
the body can be affected,

00:46:47.475 --> 00:46:49.875
the mind can be effected
by the sort of stuff

00:46:50.115 --> 00:46:51.675
we're seeing it better
off, but we're still

00:46:51.675 --> 00:46:57.825
seeing, um, it happened,
but a lot of people

00:46:57.825 --> 00:46:59.475
are being prevented
from acting out.

00:46:59.715 --> 00:47:02.145
Now the thing is it's,
it's like so much,

00:47:02.175 --> 00:47:04.515
there's so much media
attention to anything

00:47:04.515 --> 00:47:05.505
like this that happens.

00:47:05.775 --> 00:47:07.635
It looks like
there's more.

00:47:07.785 --> 00:47:08.175
Right.

00:47:08.745 --> 00:47:11.265
There isn't more, in
fact, there's probably

00:47:11.715 --> 00:47:14.145
less of it now because
of the treatment, but.

00:47:14.145 --> 00:47:15.075
Just gets more attention.

00:47:15.225 --> 00:47:16.455
But there's more
attention when

00:47:16.455 --> 00:47:17.175
it does happen.

00:47:18.165 --> 00:47:21.135
And, and th this
again is like, you

00:47:21.135 --> 00:47:23.055
know, to think, oh my
gosh, this is rampant.

00:47:23.055 --> 00:47:25.755
It's not, you know,
don't, don't, don't

00:47:25.785 --> 00:47:29.595
think that a, man, it
it's, it's an absolute,

00:47:29.595 --> 00:47:31.395
that's going to be the
worst situation for me.

00:47:33.085 --> 00:47:35.685
That guy had it way
worse than what you did

00:47:36.075 --> 00:47:38.595
and look what happened
to him, you know, to do

00:47:38.595 --> 00:47:39.134
the things you could.

00:47:39.435 --> 00:47:41.595
You're not gonna be that
way as long as you get

00:47:41.605 --> 00:47:43.845
some treatment for it
and, and do what, what

00:47:44.085 --> 00:47:46.485
you know, people ask of
you to, to go through.

00:47:46.725 --> 00:47:50.915
So, one thing that, uh,
if somebody finds himself

00:47:50.915 --> 00:47:53.134
in that situation and
they're dealing with the

00:47:53.134 --> 00:47:54.845
recurring thoughts and
they're dealing with the

00:47:54.845 --> 00:47:57.035
aftermath and they're
dealing with possible

00:47:57.035 --> 00:48:01.895
criminal or civil,
uh, litigation, uh,

00:48:01.955 --> 00:48:04.865
little things that they
can do, uh, exercise.

00:48:05.399 --> 00:48:06.600
Exercise is huge.

00:48:06.870 --> 00:48:09.870
Uh, it releases
endorphins that had

00:48:10.049 --> 00:48:11.879
gives you a feeling
of accomplishment.

00:48:11.879 --> 00:48:15.419
It's, uh, your diet
eating a little bit

00:48:15.419 --> 00:48:17.700
better food is a
big, helpful thing.

00:48:17.700 --> 00:48:19.290
These are just physical
things they can do.

00:48:19.290 --> 00:48:20.910
One thing that is
really difficult to

00:48:20.910 --> 00:48:24.240
do is, um, or diff not
difficult to do easy

00:48:24.240 --> 00:48:27.779
to do, but difficult
for a possible recovery

00:48:28.049 --> 00:48:28.859
and that's alcohol.

00:48:29.279 --> 00:48:32.009
And so often people will
look to the alcohol as

00:48:32.009 --> 00:48:35.069
a possible solution and
numb it out, but it does

00:48:35.069 --> 00:48:38.250
have a compounding effect
on the psychological

00:48:38.250 --> 00:48:39.060
response to these.

00:48:39.109 --> 00:48:39.319
Yeah.

00:48:39.649 --> 00:48:45.649
You're just, you know,
I, again, do I think, um,

00:48:46.935 --> 00:48:48.045
in a team environment.

00:48:48.315 --> 00:48:51.945
And when we went through
things, did we, you know,

00:48:52.185 --> 00:48:53.265
did we go for drinks?

00:48:53.295 --> 00:48:55.995
Like after the riot,
did we get together

00:48:55.995 --> 00:48:56.715
and reminisce?

00:48:56.805 --> 00:48:57.525
Yeah, sure.

00:48:57.615 --> 00:48:59.445
You know, after a couple
of other things that I've

00:48:59.445 --> 00:49:00.195
been through, did we?

00:49:00.195 --> 00:49:00.465
Yeah.

00:49:01.065 --> 00:49:03.225
But is that the answer
or the solution?

00:49:03.405 --> 00:49:04.095
No, it's not.

00:49:04.455 --> 00:49:06.645
I'll tell you one of the
most interesting things

00:49:06.645 --> 00:49:10.305
that, you know, in a,
in a post situation

00:49:10.725 --> 00:49:14.265
after the riots in 94,
uh, we were having big

00:49:14.265 --> 00:49:18.165
debriefings and you were
notified that on this

00:49:18.165 --> 00:49:21.085
date, you would report
to this location, uh, for

00:49:21.105 --> 00:49:25.395
the purpose of debriefing
after the incident and

00:49:25.605 --> 00:49:28.665
the individual that was
there, that was directing

00:49:28.665 --> 00:49:31.860
the debrief, you know,
had everybody sitting

00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:33.780
in this big circle
and, you know, you're,

00:49:34.050 --> 00:49:35.640
you're vulnerable,
you're, you know, your

00:49:35.640 --> 00:49:36.720
feet are on the floor.

00:49:36.720 --> 00:49:38.010
Your arms are
not crossed.

00:49:38.010 --> 00:49:39.810
You know, he's looking
for this sort of stuff.

00:49:39.810 --> 00:49:41.820
And we're all looking
towards this guy.

00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:43.620
And, and he starts
saying, you know, you

00:49:43.620 --> 00:49:46.710
know, you might feel,
uh, all these things,

00:49:46.710 --> 00:49:49.290
you know, like, uh,
feeling complete and

00:49:49.290 --> 00:49:51.990
that you let people down
and, and that, you know,

00:49:51.990 --> 00:49:54.420
this was like, you might
be having nightmares

00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:55.230
and all this stuff.

00:49:55.230 --> 00:49:57.510
And I still remember
this one individual,

00:49:57.780 --> 00:50:02.310
you know, she, uh, she
said, I don't know about

00:50:02.310 --> 00:50:05.250
the rest of the people
here, but I feel great.

00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.410
And, and, and, and you
start to see heads start

00:50:09.410 --> 00:50:10.440
to nod a little bit.

00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:14.610
And then she says, you
know, not only do I feel

00:50:14.610 --> 00:50:18.359
great, that was like
one of the most terrific

00:50:18.359 --> 00:50:19.740
moments in my life.

00:50:19.770 --> 00:50:22.830
And she went on to say,
now it wasn't the fact

00:50:22.830 --> 00:50:26.250
that it was a whole
sale, you know, attack

00:50:26.279 --> 00:50:29.040
on everything that
you've ever hated in

00:50:29.040 --> 00:50:29.880
your life or anything.

00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:33.270
It was like, what was
important was in this

00:50:33.270 --> 00:50:38.040
group situation that
she stood shoulder to

00:50:38.040 --> 00:50:40.410
shoulder with all these
other people that were

00:50:40.410 --> 00:50:43.650
in equally as bad of a
situation as she was,

00:50:44.370 --> 00:50:46.950
that those people were
there and they got

00:50:46.950 --> 00:50:48.000
through it together.

00:50:48.270 --> 00:50:51.980
And everybody, you
know, was okay.

00:50:52.040 --> 00:50:52.910
Right.

00:50:53.900 --> 00:50:56.839
And that was the
again, suppression

00:50:57.080 --> 00:50:58.069
in a normal world.

00:50:58.069 --> 00:50:59.839
And that's where they
were fighting towards

00:50:59.839 --> 00:51:02.600
in the beginning of
that debriefing was to

00:51:02.600 --> 00:51:05.779
tell you should feel or
the expected to feel.

00:51:05.990 --> 00:51:08.839
And the reaction was,
and an acceptance by

00:51:08.839 --> 00:51:11.960
everybody there that, you
know, what that was okay.

00:51:12.839 --> 00:51:14.279
And what a healthy way
to deal with it too.

00:51:14.279 --> 00:51:18.525
And it was, and it was
actually a, what's the

00:51:18.525 --> 00:51:19.695
word I want to look for?

00:51:20.115 --> 00:51:23.115
Um, a turning point
a what's the other

00:51:23.115 --> 00:51:23.865
one that they.

00:51:24.765 --> 00:51:25.155
Pivot?

00:51:25.545 --> 00:51:25.755
Yeah.

00:51:25.785 --> 00:51:27.335
Diametrically opposed.

00:51:27.335 --> 00:51:27.365
Oh.

00:51:27.615 --> 00:51:28.845
No, there's a
better one in there.

00:51:29.055 --> 00:51:30.345
I'll I'll call
I'll think of it.

00:51:30.375 --> 00:51:32.315
When, when I haven't
been drinking, no,

00:51:32.315 --> 00:51:37.245
just kidding, uh, that,
that, um, psychologist

00:51:37.335 --> 00:51:40.035
said, I got to change
the way I'm approaching

00:51:40.035 --> 00:51:40.965
this and they did.

00:51:41.745 --> 00:51:43.515
And it was just
interesting that one

00:51:43.515 --> 00:51:46.185
incident, this, this
was a huge learning

00:51:46.185 --> 00:51:49.815
environment for that
psychologist, because

00:51:50.235 --> 00:51:52.175
they were never dealing
with, you know, couple

00:51:52.195 --> 00:51:54.725
hundred people or more
that went through these

00:51:54.725 --> 00:51:55.935
sessions afterwards.

00:51:56.075 --> 00:51:57.425
And you know
what, maybe a good

00:51:57.425 --> 00:51:59.015
psychologist shouldn't
be telling a person

00:51:59.015 --> 00:51:59.795
how they should feel.

00:51:59.915 --> 00:52:01.595
Maybe they should be
asking the question.

00:52:01.985 --> 00:52:05.285
And I think that
emphasizes a really good

00:52:05.285 --> 00:52:08.615
point, which is there's
a whole slew of different

00:52:08.615 --> 00:52:11.375
professionals out there
who are psychiatrists

00:52:11.375 --> 00:52:12.155
or psychologists.

00:52:12.185 --> 00:52:14.105
If they're not
speaking your language,

00:52:14.775 --> 00:52:16.335
find somebody else.

00:52:16.395 --> 00:52:16.815
Yeah.

00:52:17.045 --> 00:52:17.315
Yeah.

00:52:17.355 --> 00:52:19.185
And, and that's, you
know, doctor shopping

00:52:19.185 --> 00:52:20.775
is not uncommon in
this day and age

00:52:20.775 --> 00:52:21.825
or second opinion.

00:52:22.215 --> 00:52:24.525
And, and like I say,
if you are in that,

00:52:24.915 --> 00:52:27.615
you know, this, this,
this treatment doesn't

00:52:27.615 --> 00:52:29.955
seem to be working for
me, go somewhere else,

00:52:30.255 --> 00:52:32.055
you know, go somewhere
else and, and see

00:52:32.055 --> 00:52:32.895
what they have to say.

00:52:33.134 --> 00:52:36.645
I'm always a fan of
going to somebody that

00:52:36.645 --> 00:52:39.015
might have a little
bit of experience in

00:52:39.015 --> 00:52:40.005
the subject matter.

00:52:40.125 --> 00:52:40.634
Right.

00:52:40.755 --> 00:52:41.265
Okay.

00:52:41.745 --> 00:52:44.565
I want to have somebody,
that's got context on

00:52:44.565 --> 00:52:47.775
what I'm talking about
and that's a help, you

00:52:47.775 --> 00:52:50.384
know, and, and there
are people like that.

00:52:50.415 --> 00:52:54.105
There are people that,
uh, you know, Randy

00:52:54.105 --> 00:52:56.715
Mackoff, you know, he,
he, he left the police

00:52:56.715 --> 00:53:00.825
service, he became a
counselor, you know, or

00:53:00.825 --> 00:53:03.045
a psycho, you know, and
that's his thing, but

00:53:03.045 --> 00:53:04.335
he's got that grounding.

00:53:04.335 --> 00:53:06.495
So if he's talking
to the cops, you

00:53:06.495 --> 00:53:07.725
know, he was a cop.

00:53:08.535 --> 00:53:13.830
I mean, there are, you
know, women who are

00:53:13.830 --> 00:53:16.390
psychologists that were
rape victims and they

00:53:16.460 --> 00:53:17.370
have that grounding.

00:53:17.370 --> 00:53:20.340
And they went through
all the stages that go on

00:53:20.759 --> 00:53:24.090
that that are a part of
such a horrible trauma.

00:53:24.450 --> 00:53:26.670
You know, the, I mean,
what's worse being

00:53:26.670 --> 00:53:28.200
murdered or being raped.

00:53:28.230 --> 00:53:30.540
My God, you know, a
rape victim has to

00:53:30.540 --> 00:53:31.920
live it every day.

00:53:32.170 --> 00:53:33.420
You know, the
murder victim.

00:53:33.420 --> 00:53:35.520
It's, it's it, you
know, it's horrible.

00:53:35.520 --> 00:53:37.980
It's an awful thing,
but it's not the same.

00:53:37.980 --> 00:53:42.090
And, and if somebody has,
has, has walked that mile

00:53:42.090 --> 00:53:44.520
ahead of you, you know,
it's, it's a lot easier

00:53:44.520 --> 00:53:46.290
to take information
from them, you know, it

00:53:46.290 --> 00:53:48.960
just, I thought, and,
and just the way I am,

00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:52.650
like, I don't, I don't
want to go and I don't

00:53:52.650 --> 00:53:54.810
want to go and train for
something with somebody

00:53:54.810 --> 00:53:57.270
who maybe hasn't even
done it themselves.

00:53:57.270 --> 00:53:58.920
I would rather, I
would go and listen

00:53:58.920 --> 00:54:01.259
to somebody who has a
bit of experience and

00:54:01.290 --> 00:54:02.279
feel better about that.

00:54:03.110 --> 00:54:05.960
So that covers a fair
bit on the, the after

00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:07.220
the after really is.

00:54:08.835 --> 00:54:10.964
Check yourself out, check
your . Surroundings, make

00:54:10.964 --> 00:54:11.484
sure that the threats.

00:54:11.484 --> 00:54:11.854
In the immediate.

00:54:11.854 --> 00:54:12.015
Done.

00:54:12.015 --> 00:54:15.305
Well, the afters in the
immediate, in the near

00:54:16.055 --> 00:54:17.795
and then in the future.

00:54:18.335 --> 00:54:18.694
Right.

00:54:18.845 --> 00:54:19.295
Okay.

00:54:19.535 --> 00:54:23.435
And the, the near in
the future, a lot of

00:54:23.435 --> 00:54:25.504
that has to do with
how you deal with it in

00:54:25.504 --> 00:54:28.085
the immediate, because
that can really shape

00:54:28.234 --> 00:54:29.225
how the future looks.

00:54:29.225 --> 00:54:31.595
You ran your mouth right
afterwards to the media.

00:54:32.045 --> 00:54:34.055
You're talking about
how great you feel and

00:54:34.745 --> 00:54:36.424
how, how fast was over.

00:54:36.424 --> 00:54:38.045
When in fact video
cameras will show it

00:54:38.045 --> 00:54:39.875
being a lot longer
and contradict you.

00:54:39.875 --> 00:54:41.765
And now you look like
a liar, maybe just

00:54:42.065 --> 00:54:44.585
zipper your mouth up,
say what's important

00:54:44.585 --> 00:54:48.194
in the time and talk
to some professionals.

00:54:48.585 --> 00:54:48.765
Yep.

00:54:49.125 --> 00:54:51.165
And, and you know what,
even if you aren't

00:54:51.165 --> 00:54:52.755
directly involved
and you do witness

00:54:52.755 --> 00:54:55.485
something horrible
like that, but you now

00:54:55.485 --> 00:54:57.735
have given a statement,
you are now in it.

00:54:58.335 --> 00:54:58.875
And that's it.

00:54:59.115 --> 00:55:01.485
You are like, and,
and for, let's go

00:55:01.485 --> 00:55:03.765
back to what kind of
started this, Travis.

00:55:03.765 --> 00:55:05.955
I said, Hey, we're
watching all this stuff

00:55:05.955 --> 00:55:10.125
on TV and one of the
reoccurring statements

00:55:10.125 --> 00:55:11.625
is I can't believe it.

00:55:11.795 --> 00:55:12.265
Right.

00:55:12.285 --> 00:55:14.205
I've never seen
anything like it.

00:55:14.565 --> 00:55:17.865
So now those people,
who were not directly

00:55:17.865 --> 00:55:21.885
involved, they were in
the nearby, um, are going

00:55:21.885 --> 00:55:24.255
to be the people who
are givin' statements

00:55:24.255 --> 00:55:28.545
perhaps later, are going
to be witnesses in court.

00:55:29.175 --> 00:55:31.455
And that all could
have an effect or

00:55:31.455 --> 00:55:32.415
an outcome on you.

00:55:32.415 --> 00:55:35.565
If you were part of
the direct, if you

00:55:35.565 --> 00:55:37.725
were at the, you
know, the epicenter

00:55:37.725 --> 00:55:38.955
of whatever happens.

00:55:38.955 --> 00:55:41.805
So we need to
understand that.

00:55:41.835 --> 00:55:44.445
And, and again, even
talk, let's talk to those

00:55:44.445 --> 00:55:45.525
people on the periphery.

00:55:46.125 --> 00:55:49.575
If you were emotionally
affected by what you saw,

00:55:49.755 --> 00:55:54.195
um, take advantage of
our, our medical system

00:55:56.355 --> 00:56:00.135
and get something for it,
you know, get, get, get

00:56:00.135 --> 00:56:03.555
the treatment you need
when you're givin' your

00:56:03.555 --> 00:56:04.875
statement to the cops.

00:56:05.415 --> 00:56:09.045
Tell the cop, you know,
is it normal that I, you

00:56:09.045 --> 00:56:12.165
know, I'm feeling like
this afterwards and you

00:56:12.165 --> 00:56:13.995
know, the measure of the
police officer will, of

00:56:13.995 --> 00:56:15.855
course, you know, the,
and, and let's, you

00:56:15.855 --> 00:56:18.435
know, here's on the back
of my business card is

00:56:18.465 --> 00:56:21.015
victim's assistance and,
and, you know, through

00:56:21.855 --> 00:56:24.615
worksafe BC and their
agreements and other

00:56:24.615 --> 00:56:26.605
things that are out there
and available to you get

00:56:26.605 --> 00:56:28.365
help, and it's not going
to cost you anything.

00:56:29.885 --> 00:56:31.805
And I think that's a
really good point, asking

00:56:31.805 --> 00:56:35.855
for that help from an
officer on the scene, is

00:56:35.855 --> 00:56:37.415
a statement in itself.

00:56:37.475 --> 00:56:37.625
Right.

00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:41.430
And I mean, and, and
I really want to, at

00:56:41.430 --> 00:56:44.010
this point too, not
just because I did it

00:56:44.040 --> 00:56:47.970
and because my circle
of friends extends to

00:56:47.970 --> 00:56:51.540
law enforcement, but
really they are there,

00:56:51.540 --> 00:56:53.970
in most cases to help.

00:56:54.720 --> 00:56:56.640
Although sometimes
you got to hurt

00:56:56.640 --> 00:56:57.540
somebody to help them.

00:56:57.540 --> 00:57:01.140
And, and we can't
emphasize, you know, that

00:57:01.140 --> 00:57:03.420
it, it would be better if
that didn't happen, but

00:57:03.570 --> 00:57:04.740
that's not all cops do.

00:57:05.190 --> 00:57:07.770
You know, these are
highly intelligent,

00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:11.280
dedicated, and this is
for somebody out there,

00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:14.460
courageous people, who
are willing to leave

00:57:14.460 --> 00:57:17.400
their homes every day
with a potential, not

00:57:17.400 --> 00:57:19.560
coming back to it,
to do things for you,

00:57:19.830 --> 00:57:22.440
but in the mundane, in
the day to day, they

00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:25.110
have the information,
the skills and the

00:57:25.110 --> 00:57:27.660
ability, you know, to
genuinely help you out

00:57:27.660 --> 00:57:28.320
of these situations.

00:57:28.640 --> 00:57:29.000
Hmm.

00:57:29.240 --> 00:57:31.760
You know, I always
look at police like

00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:34.010
any other profession,
like any other person

00:57:34.100 --> 00:57:37.319
there is going to be
the preponderance of

00:57:37.319 --> 00:57:39.480
the gross majority of
police officers are

00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:42.060
people who want to
do good and are, have

00:57:42.060 --> 00:57:44.790
high ideals and that's
why they get into it.

00:57:44.850 --> 00:57:46.799
But there are going to be
a couple of bad apples,

00:57:46.859 --> 00:57:48.299
and there's going to
be a couple that are.

00:57:48.819 --> 00:57:49.089
Absolutely.

00:57:49.089 --> 00:57:50.410
Absolutely exemplary.

00:57:50.910 --> 00:57:55.230
But after a while of
being a police officer

00:57:56.100 --> 00:57:58.830
and dealing with the same
things, people, human

00:57:58.830 --> 00:58:01.020
nature, it's normal,
people stand, tend to

00:58:01.020 --> 00:58:05.939
be developed patterns
in getting ruts, kind

00:58:05.939 --> 00:58:08.430
of like game animals,
have game trails for a

00:58:08.430 --> 00:58:10.500
reason, cause that's the
easy way they've learned

00:58:10.500 --> 00:58:11.189
that's where it goes.

00:58:11.189 --> 00:58:15.330
And after a certain
period of time, it's not

00:58:15.330 --> 00:58:17.370
that a police officer
could be bad and they

00:58:17.370 --> 00:58:20.940
aren't, but they just
doing their job, but

00:58:20.940 --> 00:58:22.230
they're definitely
not out there to

00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:23.790
do bad against you.

00:58:23.970 --> 00:58:25.530
And there's going to
be some that are always

00:58:25.530 --> 00:58:26.640
just absolutely striving.

00:58:26.640 --> 00:58:28.980
And I find more and more
that they are just out

00:58:28.980 --> 00:58:31.710
there striving, but the
media doesn't really pick

00:58:31.710 --> 00:58:32.730
up on those ones do they?

00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:33.060
Nope.

00:58:33.350 --> 00:58:35.960
They're looking for the
bad examples that goes

00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:37.640
through and you know,
you gotta to remember

00:58:37.640 --> 00:58:39.710
absolutely everybody out
here that's listening

00:58:39.710 --> 00:58:41.060
today has a bad day.

00:58:41.930 --> 00:58:44.690
And so if that's the
bad day that you met

00:58:44.690 --> 00:58:47.510
that cop on, if that
was their bad day, you

00:58:47.510 --> 00:58:49.970
can't condemn everybody
that's out there nor

00:58:49.970 --> 00:58:51.890
maybe even that person
that you dealt with in

00:58:51.890 --> 00:58:55.070
uniform that day, and
a complete condemnation

00:58:55.070 --> 00:58:56.600
from a one contact thing.

00:58:56.960 --> 00:58:58.010
Not, not very good.

00:58:58.100 --> 00:59:01.779
And after an incident
like this, meeting,

00:59:01.779 --> 00:59:04.380
uh, wanting to explain
your side, you know,

00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:05.100
that you're right.

00:59:05.100 --> 00:59:06.900
And you just want to tell
the police officer and

00:59:06.900 --> 00:59:09.450
you see them treating you
in a fashion that maybe

00:59:09.450 --> 00:59:12.029
you're a suspect in that
that could be difficult

00:59:12.029 --> 00:59:14.550
to take, or maybe they're
having a bad day and

00:59:14.550 --> 00:59:16.770
they just automatically
put that black hat on

00:59:16.770 --> 00:59:19.200
you and right from the
right from the beginning.

00:59:19.320 --> 00:59:19.529
Yeah.

00:59:19.560 --> 00:59:21.450
That can all be very
difficult for people to

00:59:21.450 --> 00:59:25.590
understand because they
tend to depersonalize

00:59:25.620 --> 00:59:29.250
the person in uniform,
but they're going

00:59:29.250 --> 00:59:30.840
through the same garbage.

00:59:31.490 --> 00:59:32.720
Yup, absolutely.

00:59:33.020 --> 00:59:36.350
And like I say, you
know, you know, when

00:59:36.350 --> 00:59:38.570
you're about to give a
statement and they stop

00:59:38.570 --> 00:59:41.420
you and then they tell
you that, you know,

00:59:41.420 --> 00:59:43.580
you're not obliged to say
anything and anything.

00:59:43.580 --> 00:59:44.250
Shut your mouth.

00:59:44.270 --> 00:59:45.170
Shut your mouth.

00:59:45.259 --> 00:59:46.550
That's exactly right.

00:59:46.580 --> 00:59:50.570
And you know, even though
you know that I never

00:59:50.570 --> 00:59:51.410
did anything wrong.

00:59:52.410 --> 00:59:53.190
Shut your mouth.

00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:53.850
That's right.

00:59:54.150 --> 00:59:56.340
That's what you know,
now this is the only

00:59:56.340 --> 00:59:58.230
costly thing involved in
there is getting a lawyer

00:59:58.230 --> 01:00:01.020
involved because that is
money, but that's money

01:00:01.020 --> 01:00:07.840
well spent, you know, um,
because, shut your mouth.

01:00:07.870 --> 01:00:09.090
I can't say
anything more.

01:00:09.540 --> 01:00:11.820
And that's, you know,
that, that, that means

01:00:11.820 --> 01:00:14.010
that you're being looked
at for whatever this is.

01:00:14.100 --> 01:00:14.370
Right.

01:00:14.550 --> 01:00:17.130
And until circumstances
clear you, you need

01:00:17.130 --> 01:00:18.900
to prepare yourself.

01:00:18.990 --> 01:00:22.020
I want to cooperate
with you, but at this

01:00:22.020 --> 01:00:24.510
point I need to, you
know, have my thoughts

01:00:24.660 --> 01:00:26.010
sort of examined.

01:00:26.240 --> 01:00:28.040
There's nothing that
you can say right

01:00:28.040 --> 01:00:30.830
now that you can't
better articulate.

01:00:31.010 --> 01:00:31.580
Later on.

01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:32.350
Tomorrow.

01:00:32.380 --> 01:00:32.540
Right.

01:00:32.540 --> 01:00:33.250
The next day.

01:00:33.790 --> 01:00:34.310
Exactly.

01:00:34.520 --> 01:00:35.360
Nothing's changing.

01:00:35.450 --> 01:00:35.630
Yeah.

01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:36.560
Yeah.

01:00:36.590 --> 01:00:37.670
I think, yeah.

01:00:37.700 --> 01:00:38.450
Leaving it at that.

01:00:38.720 --> 01:00:39.230
I think so.

01:00:39.450 --> 01:00:39.830
Okay.

01:00:40.550 --> 01:00:44.150
Okay, Paul, thank
you very much.

01:00:44.180 --> 01:00:46.070
This has been a
fantastic series.

01:00:46.070 --> 01:00:47.900
We've been getting
great feedback from all

01:00:47.900 --> 01:00:48.830
the listeners on it.

01:00:48.980 --> 01:00:51.530
I really appreciate your
unique insight on this.

01:00:52.259 --> 01:00:53.940
I don't think it's
unique, but it's,

01:00:53.940 --> 01:00:55.380
you know, one that
I'm willing to talk

01:00:55.380 --> 01:00:57.720
about and, and,
uh, I'm not right.

01:00:57.919 --> 01:00:59.490
Well you've got a
unique perspective.

01:00:59.509 --> 01:01:01.130
And you can speak
from your perspective.

01:01:01.220 --> 01:01:03.020
And I appreciate that.

01:01:03.740 --> 01:01:04.069
Thank you.

01:01:04.339 --> 01:01:13.819
Thanks for the
opportunity Travis.