1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:01,620 Speaker: Welcome to Honest Money. 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,910 I'm your host, Anya, and today's episode is brought to you by hard block. 3 00:00:12,034 --> 00:00:12,604 Anja: Hello. 4 00:00:12,664 --> 00:00:14,804 Joining me today is British Hodl. 5 00:00:14,804 --> 00:00:20,584 British Hodl is an ex gold equities and real estate investor, and he's 6 00:00:20,584 --> 00:00:24,184 been creating whole coins since 2020. 7 00:00:24,454 --> 00:00:27,034 2020. Yes, that sounds about right. 8 00:00:27,064 --> 00:00:28,264 Welcome to Honest Money. 9 00:00:29,494 --> 00:00:30,094 HODL: Thank you so much. 10 00:00:30,094 --> 00:00:30,724 Thanks for having me. 11 00:00:31,654 --> 00:00:35,614 Anja: I was just checking if my microphone is on, but it seems all to be good. 12 00:00:37,104 --> 00:00:45,769 So to kick off, have you noticed, like, has the, um, creation of Whole Coin 13 00:00:45,769 --> 00:00:48,559 has sped up or slowed down since 2020? 14 00:00:48,724 --> 00:00:53,449 HODL: I, I think it, it had a lift and then since 2024, 15 00:00:53,449 --> 00:00:54,829 I would say it's slowed down. 16 00:00:54,889 --> 00:00:55,189 Anja: Yeah. 17 00:00:55,189 --> 00:00:58,219 It's been, it's been a funny, funny year. 18 00:00:58,369 --> 00:00:59,719 What do you think of last year? 19 00:00:59,719 --> 00:01:02,149 Obviously a lot of people. 20 00:01:03,739 --> 00:01:09,709 HODL: Yeah, I think it's, uh, last year was a test of, of whether people actually 21 00:01:09,709 --> 00:01:13,249 had their own conviction or whether they were borrowing people's conviction. 22 00:01:13,879 --> 00:01:15,289 I think that was the test last year. 23 00:01:15,289 --> 00:01:16,459 This happens in every asset. 24 00:01:16,459 --> 00:01:16,879 By the way. 25 00:01:16,879 --> 00:01:20,299 It's not, not unique to, not unique to Bitcoin. 26 00:01:20,779 --> 00:01:21,409 Uh, Bitcoin's. 27 00:01:21,469 --> 00:01:25,669 The more volatile the asset, the more your conviction gets tested and the 28 00:01:25,669 --> 00:01:31,039 more you demonstrate whether your conviction, again, is borrowed or. 29 00:01:31,759 --> 00:01:32,869 Actually internal. 30 00:01:32,899 --> 00:01:39,259 And so I, I would say that a lot of people, uh, got exposed for 31 00:01:39,259 --> 00:01:41,209 borrowing conviction last year. 32 00:01:41,359 --> 00:01:41,839 Anja: Right. 33 00:01:41,839 --> 00:01:43,009 That's interesting. 34 00:01:43,099 --> 00:01:48,799 Um, I'm so surrounded by like hardcore Bitcoiners and yeah, 35 00:01:48,799 --> 00:01:50,719 I've not really felt that maybe. 36 00:01:52,414 --> 00:01:59,434 On Twitter a bit, but yeah, I'm, I'm even not getting the, a lot of the posts that 37 00:01:59,434 --> 00:02:01,354 I used to when I first joined Twitter. 38 00:02:01,804 --> 00:02:05,704 I'm just, I feel like the algorithm is very strange at the moment. 39 00:02:06,154 --> 00:02:08,914 I'm not even getting a lot of my, the people that I'm following, 40 00:02:08,914 --> 00:02:10,174 seeing what they're saying. 41 00:02:10,174 --> 00:02:12,064 So I feel like the sentiment. 42 00:02:13,009 --> 00:02:15,589 Is not something that I'm tracking all that well. 43 00:02:16,129 --> 00:02:16,759 Um, well then 44 00:02:17,029 --> 00:02:19,129 HODL: just to let you know then from the outside that 45 00:02:19,129 --> 00:02:20,164 the sentiment's in the toilet. 46 00:02:20,884 --> 00:02:25,759 So that's where the sentiment is right now to summarize it. 47 00:02:26,299 --> 00:02:26,749 Anja: Thank you. 48 00:02:26,754 --> 00:02:26,844 Thank you. 49 00:02:26,844 --> 00:02:32,434 Like I, I. I tend to lean into humor during times like this, and I don't 50 00:02:32,434 --> 00:02:37,414 know if you've seen, there was, there was a short social media clip Burge 51 00:02:37,414 --> 00:02:41,794 from like a movie and someone put like superimposed captions on top of 52 00:02:41,794 --> 00:02:46,789 like different scenes and it's like a bunch of kids singing off Key. 53 00:02:47,104 --> 00:02:52,204 And then the first kids like singing and it, it says like s and p 500. 54 00:02:52,524 --> 00:02:57,474 Up this much and then dah, dah, dah, and then goes like up 20, 72% and 55 00:02:57,474 --> 00:02:58,944 it's like just rolling the eyes. 56 00:02:58,974 --> 00:03:05,004 And then Bitcoin comes in at minus five, singing like the most off key, um, until 57 00:03:05,004 --> 00:03:09,594 the, I guess the teacher, the music teacher loses her mind and finally finds 58 00:03:09,779 --> 00:03:14,969 the one kid who's got perfect pitch, and that happens to be silver, amazing. 59 00:03:15,239 --> 00:03:17,009 Up hundred and 75%. 60 00:03:17,009 --> 00:03:20,999 So it was just one of the funniest social media clips that made me laugh, 61 00:03:21,059 --> 00:03:22,769 laugh, because it was so spot on. 62 00:03:23,789 --> 00:03:26,879 HODL: Yeah, I'm, uh, I'm very happy for my gold and silver 63 00:03:27,869 --> 00:03:31,019 fans, uh, for the last six months. 64 00:03:31,109 --> 00:03:32,939 We'll see what, what the next six months holds. 65 00:03:33,809 --> 00:03:38,879 Certainly for the last six months, they're, they're celebrating justly. 66 00:03:39,709 --> 00:03:40,669 Based on price action. 67 00:03:40,669 --> 00:03:40,729 Yeah. 68 00:03:41,764 --> 00:03:42,154 Anja: Yeah. 69 00:03:42,394 --> 00:03:46,294 One of the things that I've learned listening to your channel, I found 70 00:03:46,294 --> 00:03:50,794 it really interesting and that's, and I didn't know that apparently 71 00:03:51,034 --> 00:03:54,994 the culture within the commodities, like the metal, commodities, gold and 72 00:03:54,994 --> 00:03:58,174 silver, tends to be very doom and gloom. 73 00:03:58,174 --> 00:04:04,474 Is that, is like, I'm not, again, sentiment check is, is 74 00:04:04,474 --> 00:04:06,184 that really like how they are? 75 00:04:06,184 --> 00:04:09,599 Do they really think like expecting the global markets to melt? 76 00:04:11,584 --> 00:04:14,944 HODL: I would actually argue that's the core sentiment most of what I 77 00:04:14,944 --> 00:04:16,774 feel when it comes to Bitcoin as well. 78 00:04:16,834 --> 00:04:20,794 Bitcoin has a little bit more of a positive outlook on the future, but I 79 00:04:20,794 --> 00:04:26,134 would say that most, most Bitcoiners lean towards the idea of taking down the 80 00:04:26,134 --> 00:04:28,004 system and et cetera, et cetera, and. 81 00:04:28,704 --> 00:04:31,134 The reality is, is that most people wouldn't know what to 82 00:04:31,134 --> 00:04:32,454 do if the system collapsed. 83 00:04:32,634 --> 00:04:36,054 Um, even if they're holding Bitcoin or gold or silver. 84 00:04:36,054 --> 00:04:39,504 But yeah, gold and silver investors, it's one of the things that kind of took me 85 00:04:39,504 --> 00:04:43,374 away from that industry was just kind of like the energy of the people that 86 00:04:43,374 --> 00:04:48,384 were, were in the space was, was just, I, it's not something that I relate to 87 00:04:48,384 --> 00:04:50,154 or what I was kind of brought up with. 88 00:04:50,214 --> 00:04:54,204 So, um, yeah, I like to call them doom and gloom boomers. 89 00:04:54,264 --> 00:04:56,549 They don't have to be boomers, but they're all doom and gloomers. 90 00:04:57,874 --> 00:04:59,249 Anja: Yeah, doom and Gloomers. 91 00:04:59,704 --> 00:05:04,354 But it's interesting that you bring that up because obviously recently Danny 92 00:05:04,354 --> 00:05:09,089 interviewed Sailor and that has been an interesting, fantastic interview by the 93 00:05:09,089 --> 00:05:09,209 HODL: way. 94 00:05:09,239 --> 00:05:10,329 Fantastic interview. 95 00:05:10,334 --> 00:05:14,529 Anja: It really was, and I'm still following the comments on, 96 00:05:14,529 --> 00:05:18,819 on the, like the, what Bitcoin did on that particular thing. 97 00:05:18,819 --> 00:05:20,619 It's interesting what people are saying. 98 00:05:21,069 --> 00:05:25,539 Um, they're basically saying, sailor told us, all of us off via Danny. 99 00:05:26,619 --> 00:05:30,699 Um, but yeah, I think he shares a lot of the same sentiment. 100 00:05:30,699 --> 00:05:37,509 He was, you know, commenting about the toxicity of the community and yeah. 101 00:05:37,539 --> 00:05:40,374 What, what did you think overall, um, of that interview? 102 00:05:41,614 --> 00:05:42,454 HODL: I thought it was a fan. 103 00:05:42,484 --> 00:05:44,944 I messaged Danny and I told him I think he did a fantastic 104 00:05:44,944 --> 00:05:46,684 job, um, with the interview. 105 00:05:46,744 --> 00:05:49,714 The point of an interviewer is to push the boundaries, especially 106 00:05:49,714 --> 00:05:51,424 on someone like Michael Saylor. 107 00:05:51,424 --> 00:05:55,984 Michael's one of the smartest people I've ever met in my life, um, and 108 00:05:56,074 --> 00:05:59,374 probably the most fastest thinking person I've ever met in my life. 109 00:06:00,724 --> 00:06:03,124 But, you know, people get intimidated by that. 110 00:06:03,604 --> 00:06:08,614 And so for Danny to, and I think they were at at times, they were 111 00:06:08,614 --> 00:06:10,234 kind of speaking past each other. 112 00:06:10,789 --> 00:06:14,689 But nonetheless, I think it was extremely important and it is 113 00:06:14,689 --> 00:06:17,749 extremely important for a podcaster to push the boundaries on someone. 114 00:06:17,749 --> 00:06:21,169 And so, and I think that's what Danny did and he handled the criticism 115 00:06:21,169 --> 00:06:24,289 really well, and, and, and I think it was overall a really good. 116 00:06:25,294 --> 00:06:30,184 It certainly gave anyone who understands how to, how to listen to, like 117 00:06:30,694 --> 00:06:35,284 tradify markets, an understanding of how Sailor is looking at things. 118 00:06:35,284 --> 00:06:40,534 What kind of, you know, what I took away from, from, from that was just 119 00:06:40,624 --> 00:06:44,674 how Michael Sailor is looking at the landscape based on what he knows. 120 00:06:44,674 --> 00:06:48,214 Remember Bitcoin as are used to. 121 00:06:49,324 --> 00:06:49,869 With Bitcoin. 122 00:06:49,874 --> 00:06:53,494 Bitcoin is, it used to being spoken to very, very directly about 123 00:06:53,494 --> 00:06:55,864 points, like factual points, right? 124 00:06:55,864 --> 00:06:57,634 That's what beauty of Bitcoin is. 125 00:06:58,174 --> 00:07:01,924 Tradify doesn't talk like that because there might be regulations, there 126 00:07:01,924 --> 00:07:03,094 might be things that are coming. 127 00:07:03,094 --> 00:07:06,184 You're under NDA, you're, you know, you're, you're, you're discussing things 128 00:07:06,184 --> 00:07:12,724 that can't be discussed in public, so then you have to be like, someone like me. 129 00:07:12,724 --> 00:07:13,054 I'm. 130 00:07:13,534 --> 00:07:17,314 I can see through what Sailor is saying and try and figure out 131 00:07:17,314 --> 00:07:18,724 like, what does this actually mean? 132 00:07:18,724 --> 00:07:20,614 Why is he saying certain things? 133 00:07:21,514 --> 00:07:25,504 And so then, you know, this is how uh, when BlackRock was talking about 134 00:07:25,504 --> 00:07:28,354 Bitcoin, I knew they were gonna come into the game like it was because I was 135 00:07:28,354 --> 00:07:30,724 listening to listening past the words. 136 00:07:31,324 --> 00:07:33,274 And I think Bitcoiners need to get better at that. 137 00:07:33,274 --> 00:07:35,404 Certainly that's what I've tried to do with my YouTube channel. 138 00:07:35,404 --> 00:07:37,234 Like, okay, this is what was said. 139 00:07:37,999 --> 00:07:39,679 But this is what it actually means. 140 00:07:40,039 --> 00:07:43,429 And if this is what it means, then this is what should happen. 141 00:07:43,459 --> 00:07:47,299 And, um, and that's what I, I think, I think, I think Danny did a fantastic 142 00:07:47,299 --> 00:07:50,779 job overall, and I, and I think Michael Sailor handled it really well. 143 00:07:50,894 --> 00:07:55,189 I, I think Michael Saylor, you know, certainly let people like me know 144 00:07:55,339 --> 00:07:58,459 kind of what the landscape is and how things are working and how we 145 00:07:58,459 --> 00:08:02,659 should be, uh, thinking about treasury companies and things like that. 146 00:08:02,659 --> 00:08:06,229 So I, I, I think overall it was a fantastic, fantastic interview. 147 00:08:07,534 --> 00:08:09,994 Anja: Yeah, I, I thought so as well. 148 00:08:09,994 --> 00:08:15,304 I didn't actually think at the time when Danny was asking him the first question 149 00:08:15,304 --> 00:08:20,854 that kind of seemed to trigger Sailor that, um, he was expecting that reaction. 150 00:08:21,304 --> 00:08:24,574 It almost, and I think he said in a different interview perhaps with Mark 151 00:08:24,574 --> 00:08:30,844 Moss, that, um, that basically he had some difficult questions lined up for 152 00:08:30,844 --> 00:08:35,164 him, but he didn't quite get to those, um, which I thought was interesting. 153 00:08:36,034 --> 00:08:38,104 HODL: So that's, that's how, but that's how it goes. 154 00:08:38,104 --> 00:08:38,314 Right? 155 00:08:38,314 --> 00:08:40,894 You never know which one, you never know what's gonna, which 156 00:08:40,894 --> 00:08:42,154 way the conversation's gonna go. 157 00:08:42,814 --> 00:08:43,174 Yeah. 158 00:08:43,234 --> 00:08:45,904 I, I think he did a fantastic job and I think Michael answered 159 00:08:45,904 --> 00:08:47,404 all the questions fantastically. 160 00:08:47,404 --> 00:08:51,304 I think Michael's, you know, real intention there was to 161 00:08:51,304 --> 00:08:55,084 kind, kind of try and reframe how everyone's looking at things. 162 00:08:56,254 --> 00:09:00,454 Certainly for me, he, he, he did a, he did a great job at that. 163 00:09:00,454 --> 00:09:02,519 So I think overall it was, it was pretty good. 164 00:09:03,949 --> 00:09:05,449 Anja: What was your main takeaway? 165 00:09:05,449 --> 00:09:08,689 Like what do you think was Sailor's main message from that interview? 166 00:09:09,829 --> 00:09:13,489 HODL: I think the main point was, you know, to, from a simplistic point of view, 167 00:09:13,489 --> 00:09:19,879 is that every company's gonna be buying Bitcoin, so this is not a unique thing. 168 00:09:19,879 --> 00:09:22,549 We should be pissed off at the companies that are not buying Bitcoin 169 00:09:22,669 --> 00:09:23,959 because they're not doing their best. 170 00:09:24,889 --> 00:09:27,829 The increased shareholder value through this scarce asset. 171 00:09:28,309 --> 00:09:33,979 And when you're trying to judge, uh, a Bitcoin treasury company based 172 00:09:33,979 --> 00:09:38,449 on its price performance, you're missing half of the story because 173 00:09:38,449 --> 00:09:42,229 what happens when every company has some Bitcoin on the balance sheet. 174 00:09:42,619 --> 00:09:46,249 Every company is gonna be trading at a percentage above or below. 175 00:09:46,249 --> 00:09:50,869 Its Bitcoin, MNF, and that's just how this is gonna go. 176 00:09:50,869 --> 00:09:52,399 This is the birth of a new industry. 177 00:09:52,399 --> 00:09:55,309 And so what's going on right now is that the conversation has 178 00:09:55,309 --> 00:09:57,289 been overtaken by bad traders. 179 00:09:57,859 --> 00:10:01,939 Um, and, and that really needs to be reframed because 180 00:10:02,089 --> 00:10:04,279 bad traders do not dictate. 181 00:10:04,864 --> 00:10:06,364 What an industry is doing. 182 00:10:06,394 --> 00:10:12,004 And so we want people, we want companies to buy as much Bitcoin as possible, and 183 00:10:12,004 --> 00:10:13,504 that's what we should be focused on. 184 00:10:13,534 --> 00:10:18,214 And the fact that people are getting into these companies at seven times multiple, 185 00:10:18,214 --> 00:10:23,524 and then that company is compressing down to a one times multiple in a mid-cycle 186 00:10:23,524 --> 00:10:26,614 bear market is, is completely normal. 187 00:10:26,614 --> 00:10:30,934 But we should not be dictating, you know, the, the value of 188 00:10:30,934 --> 00:10:33,034 adding Bitcoin to a balance sheet. 189 00:10:33,739 --> 00:10:35,959 Based on a bad trade. 190 00:10:38,014 --> 00:10:41,374 Speaker 5: Quick one for the Aussies listening hard block is offering 191 00:10:41,374 --> 00:10:44,074 a $10 signup discount right now. 192 00:10:44,314 --> 00:10:47,824 And if you're with another exchange, ask yourself this. 193 00:10:48,154 --> 00:10:51,784 Are they Australia's longest running Bitcoin only exchange? 194 00:10:51,994 --> 00:10:54,424 Because if not, maybe it's time to switch. 195 00:10:54,994 --> 00:11:01,834 Head to hard block.com au slash join slash Honest Money and 196 00:11:01,834 --> 00:11:03,754 start stacking stats today. 197 00:11:04,548 --> 00:11:04,998 Anja: Yeah. 198 00:11:04,998 --> 00:11:08,358 And obviously you've spent, you know, many years in investing. 199 00:11:08,868 --> 00:11:13,068 What would you say is the most underrated investing skill? 200 00:11:13,608 --> 00:11:17,508 HODL: It's, it's the, I have three rules to Bitcoin and it's the, the 201 00:11:17,508 --> 00:11:20,658 most underrated one is step number two, which is shut the fuck up. 202 00:11:21,073 --> 00:11:25,183 That's, that's the hardest thing to do because if you look at, what's happened 203 00:11:25,183 --> 00:11:29,173 here is people bought their Bitcoin and then they sold their Bitcoin to 204 00:11:29,173 --> 00:11:34,183 put it into a company with a seven times multiple to its, so you basically 205 00:11:34,183 --> 00:11:36,733 exchanged one Bitcoin for 0.21 Bitcoin. 206 00:11:37,503 --> 00:11:40,863 And now you're pissed off that it's taking a little bit of time for 207 00:11:40,863 --> 00:11:45,003 that company to build up from your 0.21 Bitcoin to your one Bitcoin. 208 00:11:45,513 --> 00:11:47,103 But that was the trade that you made. 209 00:11:47,373 --> 00:11:49,233 So you didn't understand what was going on. 210 00:11:49,623 --> 00:11:54,033 Um, and you made that trade simply based on price action and 211 00:11:54,033 --> 00:11:55,413 what was going on in the moment. 212 00:11:56,373 --> 00:11:57,723 And now you've gotta sit there. 213 00:11:57,903 --> 00:12:00,633 Now you've got, now you're in the shut the fuck up part, the part 214 00:12:00,633 --> 00:12:03,213 of the, the trade, so that's that. 215 00:12:03,273 --> 00:12:05,133 That's the hard, that's always the hardest part. 216 00:12:05,133 --> 00:12:06,063 People just don't know. 217 00:12:07,023 --> 00:12:11,973 You know how to shut down that activity bias that we're all that we all have, 218 00:12:12,003 --> 00:12:16,053 and especially, I mean, it's gonna get worse because you know, I'm sure 219 00:12:16,053 --> 00:12:19,263 you've seen that the US market's trying to go to 24 hours trading. 220 00:12:19,923 --> 00:12:23,433 When that happens, this is only gonna get worse because everything's gonna 221 00:12:23,433 --> 00:12:25,503 be open all day around the world. 222 00:12:26,058 --> 00:12:28,938 So you're gonna wake up and you're gonna be thinking about what's 223 00:12:28,938 --> 00:12:30,168 going on with the price action. 224 00:12:30,168 --> 00:12:31,728 You're gonna go to bed and you're thinking about what's 225 00:12:31,728 --> 00:12:32,838 going on with the price action. 226 00:12:32,838 --> 00:12:36,468 So speculation, volatility, and everything else is only gonna go up here. 227 00:12:36,918 --> 00:12:39,378 Um, so, you know, that's, that's really the skill. 228 00:12:39,378 --> 00:12:41,208 The skill is the shut the fuck up part. 229 00:12:42,708 --> 00:12:44,268 Anja: Yeah on that. 230 00:12:44,268 --> 00:12:45,558 I'm glad you brought that up. 231 00:12:45,648 --> 00:12:46,158 Uh, sorry. 232 00:12:46,158 --> 00:12:50,028 Not the shut the fuck up part about the 24 trading part. 233 00:12:50,298 --> 00:12:53,808 I'm glad you brought it up because one of the questions I have is, you know, 234 00:12:54,048 --> 00:13:00,168 Bitcoin is obviously very volatile and the fact that it's trading 24 7, it's always 235 00:13:00,168 --> 00:13:04,428 like the first asset to move or react to something, especially on the weekend. 236 00:13:04,818 --> 00:13:07,638 If everything EL else opens up on the weekend, would that 237 00:13:07,638 --> 00:13:09,408 reduce Bitcoin's volatility? 238 00:13:10,443 --> 00:13:15,453 No, sorry, not, I didn't word that the best, but like, will it make it less 239 00:13:15,873 --> 00:13:20,553 volatile because there'll be other assets that people will be able to trade? 240 00:13:21,873 --> 00:13:26,313 HODL: Yeah, I, I think at that point, the advantage that Bitcoin has for 241 00:13:26,313 --> 00:13:29,763 being the first mover, liquidity kind of starts going away, right. 242 00:13:30,213 --> 00:13:31,053 Um, which. 243 00:13:31,683 --> 00:13:33,393 Is an advantage and a disadvantage. 244 00:13:33,393 --> 00:13:37,293 You kind of want that to happen because then, you know, the, the, the, the Sunday 245 00:13:37,323 --> 00:13:42,393 dumps that you're seeing on Bitcoin kind of go away because anything, the 246 00:13:42,393 --> 00:13:46,473 actual asset that you want to dump can just dump rather than Bitcoin dumping. 247 00:13:46,473 --> 00:13:50,703 So volatility starts to come down as the asset matures, and that's, 248 00:13:50,733 --> 00:13:53,823 that's a normal, that's a normal maturation cycle for an asset. 249 00:13:54,123 --> 00:13:54,513 Anja: Yeah. 250 00:13:55,053 --> 00:13:59,373 Um, but one question I've been asking a lot of my guests this year that I find 251 00:13:59,373 --> 00:14:04,713 very interesting, and I'm curious to ask you as well, is what is your first 252 00:14:04,713 --> 00:14:07,143 memory of money that you had as a child? 253 00:14:07,233 --> 00:14:10,023 HODL: I, oh, that's a really good question. 254 00:14:10,083 --> 00:14:13,113 Um, I'm trying to think back as far as, again, I've got memories 255 00:14:14,133 --> 00:14:17,283 coming up, but I'm trying to see if there's any archives further 256 00:14:17,283 --> 00:14:17,403 Speaker 3: back. 257 00:14:18,753 --> 00:14:18,993 HODL: Yeah. 258 00:14:18,993 --> 00:14:20,493 Go through the archives a little bit. 259 00:14:20,523 --> 00:14:21,183 Um. 260 00:14:22,068 --> 00:14:26,058 I would say that I remember an argument going on about money. 261 00:14:26,148 --> 00:14:30,348 That's probably my first, first memory was an argument about money. 262 00:14:30,558 --> 00:14:33,078 Anja: That makes more sense about your role, number two. 263 00:14:33,468 --> 00:14:33,978 HODL: Yeah. 264 00:14:34,218 --> 00:14:42,468 Look, you know, to me, to me, money has always been about building a moat, right? 265 00:14:42,468 --> 00:14:45,888 It's, it success was about distance. 266 00:14:46,188 --> 00:14:47,268 It wasn't about. 267 00:14:48,243 --> 00:14:49,203 Anything else like Right. 268 00:14:49,203 --> 00:14:54,033 You know, I like nice things, but it, it's really more about building a moat 269 00:14:54,033 --> 00:15:01,503 and a distance between me and whatever the o whatever the thing with no money is. 270 00:15:01,503 --> 00:15:01,773 Right. 271 00:15:01,773 --> 00:15:07,803 Which, which, uh, you know, uh, that's kind of the arguments, the, the negative 272 00:15:07,808 --> 00:15:11,643 emotions that everything else that comes with not having enough money. 273 00:15:12,258 --> 00:15:16,068 So, yeah, that, that's, I guess, you know, that's, uh, that's 274 00:15:16,068 --> 00:15:17,148 what it's always been for me. 275 00:15:17,148 --> 00:15:22,428 It's about how far can you get and then you get to a point, um, I don't 276 00:15:22,428 --> 00:15:23,898 even know if I'm far enough yet. 277 00:15:23,928 --> 00:15:24,918 That's what's interesting. 278 00:15:25,338 --> 00:15:25,518 Right. 279 00:15:25,518 --> 00:15:28,758 I don't know if you are far enough, because if it's just an emotion, 280 00:15:29,328 --> 00:15:32,778 then you're trying to plug that, plug that gap and build that moat. 281 00:15:32,868 --> 00:15:33,543 And the question is. 282 00:15:34,698 --> 00:15:37,008 You know, how, how far do you go with that moat? 283 00:15:37,008 --> 00:15:38,568 How big do you want the moat to be? 284 00:15:38,928 --> 00:15:40,908 And the bigger the moat is, the safer you feel. 285 00:15:41,028 --> 00:15:42,828 So you just keep going. 286 00:15:43,758 --> 00:15:47,418 Anja: Yeah, I was just gonna say the, I thought you were gonna say the bigger, the 287 00:15:47,418 --> 00:15:49,668 moat, mo mote, bigger mote mo problems. 288 00:15:50,173 --> 00:15:53,748 I, I dunno, I just thought of Biggie Smalls for a second. 289 00:15:54,288 --> 00:15:54,468 Yeah. 290 00:15:54,468 --> 00:15:55,938 But that makes a lot of sense. 291 00:15:56,028 --> 00:15:58,133 Um, I can certainly relate to that, you know? 292 00:15:58,998 --> 00:16:03,468 My background as well coming from, you know, an underdeveloped country 293 00:16:03,828 --> 00:16:05,538 and money being very scarce. 294 00:16:05,748 --> 00:16:06,528 You talking about Australia? 295 00:16:07,128 --> 00:16:07,848 No, no. 296 00:16:07,848 --> 00:16:10,248 I was born in Croatia and you know. 297 00:16:11,568 --> 00:16:12,078 Okay. 298 00:16:12,078 --> 00:16:12,168 Yeah. 299 00:16:13,398 --> 00:16:15,528 Well Australia kind of seems to be. 300 00:16:16,173 --> 00:16:23,073 Trending towards, towards a funny financial path where, you know, 301 00:16:23,553 --> 00:16:26,733 the impression I had of the country first coming here in the first, you 302 00:16:26,733 --> 00:16:31,173 know, few decades that I spent here, it was very, very stable country. 303 00:16:31,173 --> 00:16:34,398 Whereas like that stable realization is just seeming 304 00:16:34,398 --> 00:16:36,708 to kind of crack a little bit. 305 00:16:36,918 --> 00:16:39,858 Like the economy's not great, the cost of living is not great. 306 00:16:40,368 --> 00:16:44,988 Um, you know, people even earning high income are having housing stress. 307 00:16:44,988 --> 00:16:48,288 So it's interesting times here. 308 00:16:48,558 --> 00:16:52,668 Um, I don't know, like do you go back to the UK at all? 309 00:16:53,238 --> 00:16:53,448 Yeah. 310 00:16:53,448 --> 00:16:53,838 These days? 311 00:16:53,838 --> 00:16:53,898 Yeah. 312 00:16:53,898 --> 00:16:54,078 My, 313 00:16:54,203 --> 00:16:56,148 HODL: my, yeah, my parents were in the uk. 314 00:16:56,148 --> 00:16:58,458 Brothers in the uk friends are in the uk. 315 00:16:58,458 --> 00:16:58,608 Yeah. 316 00:16:58,608 --> 00:17:01,338 I go back probably three or four times a year. 317 00:17:02,058 --> 00:17:02,448 Anja: Yeah. 318 00:17:02,688 --> 00:17:04,578 Is it kind of a similar situation there? 319 00:17:04,668 --> 00:17:05,358 HODL: Yes. 320 00:17:05,448 --> 00:17:09,678 Um, except, you know, I'm from London, so the UK is really kind 321 00:17:09,678 --> 00:17:12,258 of like London Plus, uh, to me. 322 00:17:12,408 --> 00:17:17,208 So, um, in London, the, you know, there's still things moving and shaking that we've 323 00:17:17,208 --> 00:17:21,708 got our issues like anywhere else in the world, but there's still kind of, it feels 324 00:17:21,708 --> 00:17:24,978 like there's things moving and shaking depending on which industry you're in. 325 00:17:25,158 --> 00:17:25,458 Anja: Yeah. 326 00:17:25,553 --> 00:17:25,843 Yeah. 327 00:17:26,148 --> 00:17:26,658 Okay. 328 00:17:26,958 --> 00:17:27,888 No, that makes sense. 329 00:17:27,888 --> 00:17:30,708 Um, but yeah, so what are the other two rules? 330 00:17:31,018 --> 00:17:32,398 Um, you mentioned one. 331 00:17:33,028 --> 00:17:33,478 HODL: Yeah. 332 00:17:33,598 --> 00:17:35,908 Well, the first rule is you buy Bitcoin. 333 00:17:37,258 --> 00:17:38,848 The second rule is you shut the fuck up. 334 00:17:39,538 --> 00:17:42,298 And then the third rule is you get fabulously wealthy, but you 335 00:17:42,298 --> 00:17:45,298 gotta shut the fuck up to get to the fabulously wealthy part. 336 00:17:45,538 --> 00:17:45,688 Anja: Yeah. 337 00:17:46,198 --> 00:17:50,338 And like, uh, I know you're very passionate about creating whole coins. 338 00:17:51,303 --> 00:17:56,553 Do you think your message is going to change soon in terms 339 00:17:56,553 --> 00:18:00,843 of what the aspirational goal for the Bitcoin should be like? 340 00:18:01,083 --> 00:18:06,063 Is, is aspiring to get a whole coin still a reality for many people? 341 00:18:06,063 --> 00:18:09,333 Or are we looking at 0.1? 342 00:18:10,233 --> 00:18:12,393 Like what's the, what's the go? 343 00:18:12,453 --> 00:18:12,873 My, 344 00:18:12,873 --> 00:18:15,993 HODL: my, my messaging is not gonna change. 345 00:18:15,993 --> 00:18:18,873 I actually went through this after we crossed a hundred thousand, so. 346 00:18:19,293 --> 00:18:23,373 Technically speaking, based on the data that I can see, after a hundred 347 00:18:23,373 --> 00:18:30,813 thousand dollars, about 0.4, 0.45% of the world can now get to one Bitcoin. 348 00:18:31,263 --> 00:18:34,383 So I definitely went through this discovery process of like, 349 00:18:34,383 --> 00:18:36,213 do I now change the message? 350 00:18:36,213 --> 00:18:37,713 Do I, what do I do with this? 351 00:18:38,013 --> 00:18:41,643 And I had to kind of go back to why I got involved in even creating any content. 352 00:18:42,468 --> 00:18:45,738 Um, and, and I decided that my message won't change. 353 00:18:45,798 --> 00:18:48,438 I think the one Bitcoin should be the North Star. 354 00:18:48,708 --> 00:18:53,748 I think, uh, my reasoning around that, um, is still relevant. 355 00:18:53,748 --> 00:18:58,308 I, I think if you don't have enough, I'm very, very sensitive to the happy 356 00:18:58,308 --> 00:19:02,748 hippie nature of Bitcoin, which is like, you know, it's kind of been taken 357 00:19:02,748 --> 00:19:08,183 over from a content or, uh, you know, conference or whatever space by people 358 00:19:08,183 --> 00:19:10,043 that like to hug trees for some reason. 359 00:19:10,343 --> 00:19:13,973 And the reality is it's a monetary network, which means you have to own 360 00:19:13,973 --> 00:19:17,333 enough of the network to be relevant if you don't own enough of the network. 361 00:19:17,723 --> 00:19:22,943 I don't care how many empanada stand makers you teach to use Bitcoin 362 00:19:22,943 --> 00:19:26,063 to sell their fucking empanadas, it's not gonna matter for you, your 363 00:19:26,063 --> 00:19:27,323 family, your bloodline, or anyone. 364 00:19:27,858 --> 00:19:32,088 So you have to have a certain amount of Bitcoin, and I think that number 365 00:19:32,088 --> 00:19:34,068 should always be, get to one Bitcoin. 366 00:19:35,208 --> 00:19:37,398 And whether you get there or not is totally up to you. 367 00:19:37,428 --> 00:19:38,928 Depends how much you care about your future. 368 00:19:38,928 --> 00:19:41,118 Depends how much you care about your bloodline, depends how much 369 00:19:41,118 --> 00:19:44,568 you care about, you know who comes after you and who carries your 370 00:19:44,568 --> 00:19:46,458 last name if you care at all. 371 00:19:46,458 --> 00:19:47,598 I know many people that don't. 372 00:19:48,183 --> 00:19:50,163 So it just depends on what you want. 373 00:19:50,163 --> 00:19:53,343 But my message will always be, get to one Bitcoin. 374 00:19:53,343 --> 00:19:54,423 It's never gonna change. 375 00:19:54,483 --> 00:19:58,473 And that also, I understand that, that over the arc of time, it 376 00:19:58,473 --> 00:20:00,723 makes me more and more irrelevant. 377 00:20:00,813 --> 00:20:04,653 And that's okay because that's what that, that, that is the beauty of time. 378 00:20:04,653 --> 00:20:05,703 Time does pass. 379 00:20:05,913 --> 00:20:07,893 And it's also the beauty of Bitcoin. 380 00:20:08,103 --> 00:20:13,473 It is actually scarce, therefore the timestamps that happen along, 381 00:20:13,533 --> 00:20:16,023 along its path should also be scarce. 382 00:20:16,863 --> 00:20:19,533 So I want my message to stay the same, and it will be a 383 00:20:19,533 --> 00:20:21,543 timestamp along Bitcoin's history. 384 00:20:21,873 --> 00:20:26,793 And the people that heard the message got to one, Bitcoin will be great. 385 00:20:26,793 --> 00:20:31,263 And the ones that heard the message thought it was a joke will suffer. 386 00:20:31,263 --> 00:20:32,683 And that's exactly what they should do. 387 00:20:33,238 --> 00:20:33,318 Anja: Hmm. 388 00:20:34,508 --> 00:20:36,933 So paint an aspirational picture for me. 389 00:20:36,933 --> 00:20:39,993 What does one Bitcoin, what could that mean for someone? 390 00:20:40,053 --> 00:20:42,783 HODL: So I, I think Bitcoin is going to many millions of 391 00:20:42,783 --> 00:20:44,853 dollars, US dollars per coin. 392 00:20:45,003 --> 00:20:45,933 And I think. 393 00:20:46,533 --> 00:20:53,973 That at one Bitcoin, you are now probably in a group of 40 to 50,000 394 00:20:53,973 --> 00:20:56,883 people in the world, uh, over time. 395 00:20:57,393 --> 00:21:03,663 And I think that, uh, any financial institution, uh, in the future 396 00:21:03,663 --> 00:21:05,343 will be chasing your business. 397 00:21:06,153 --> 00:21:11,553 Um, I think you will have all the services that are currently available to high net 398 00:21:11,553 --> 00:21:14,673 worth individuals, uh, available to you. 399 00:21:15,108 --> 00:21:20,328 And I think you'll be able to, to build a, again, build a moat around yourself that 400 00:21:20,328 --> 00:21:24,258 will protect you, protect your bloodline, protect everything that you are, that 401 00:21:24,258 --> 00:21:30,678 you stand for, and you know you will have the ability to assimilate and to, uh, 402 00:21:31,263 --> 00:21:33,363 put into the world what your ideas are. 403 00:21:33,393 --> 00:21:36,783 If you're not at one Bitcoin, you will have to get together with 404 00:21:36,783 --> 00:21:39,663 people who hopefully agree with you. 405 00:21:40,143 --> 00:21:43,173 Uh, but more likely you'll be throwing your support behind 406 00:21:43,173 --> 00:21:45,153 people who have enough Bitcoin. 407 00:21:45,903 --> 00:21:49,653 Uh, and that will be, that'll be the, that'll be your choice, you know, 408 00:21:49,653 --> 00:21:51,183 to, to whether to do that or not. 409 00:21:51,183 --> 00:21:54,543 But you are definitely not gonna be one of the decision 410 00:21:54,543 --> 00:21:57,033 makers, um, in this future world. 411 00:21:57,078 --> 00:21:57,368 Anja: Yeah. 412 00:21:57,843 --> 00:21:59,073 Yeah, absolutely. 413 00:21:59,073 --> 00:22:05,223 So for those who may have a Bitcoin or two or three, is, is the most 414 00:22:05,223 --> 00:22:10,653 important thing holding onto that Bitcoin for like an X amount of time? 415 00:22:10,833 --> 00:22:13,413 Like what is your advice there forever, Trevor? 416 00:22:13,413 --> 00:22:13,423 HODL: Forever. 417 00:22:13,828 --> 00:22:14,208 Anja: Oh, forever. 418 00:22:14,208 --> 00:22:14,608 Forever. 419 00:22:15,573 --> 00:22:17,853 HODL: Laura forever. 420 00:22:18,543 --> 00:22:19,233 Forever. 421 00:22:19,323 --> 00:22:24,273 That's a, it's, it's, it amazes me when I hear Bitcoiners talking about, 422 00:22:24,273 --> 00:22:26,943 you know, if you need some, if you need some cash, just sell the Bitcoin. 423 00:22:26,943 --> 00:22:30,393 It's like, what was the point of telling every, telling people to get, 424 00:22:30,393 --> 00:22:32,643 to get to a certain amount of Bitcoin. 425 00:22:32,673 --> 00:22:36,603 If the goal, if, if the message now transitions to let's just sell 426 00:22:36,603 --> 00:22:40,263 it, like it doesn't make any sense to me, you gotta hold it forever. 427 00:22:41,546 --> 00:22:43,706 Speaker 6: Not your keys, not your coins. 428 00:22:44,246 --> 00:22:48,326 If you're holding Bitcoin, your self custody setup needs to be done right. 429 00:22:49,076 --> 00:22:53,576 Mine racks delivers paranoia grade security so that you can sleep at night 430 00:22:53,576 --> 00:22:55,616 knowing that your money is protected. 431 00:22:56,486 --> 00:22:59,366 Take control and secure your money the honest way. 432 00:22:59,756 --> 00:23:03,146 Head to mine racks.com/honest Money. 433 00:23:04,011 --> 00:23:07,461 HODL: Imagine if people that held Manhattan, or let's say 434 00:23:07,521 --> 00:23:12,411 Sydney land said, you know what, I'm just gonna sell the land. 435 00:23:12,951 --> 00:23:13,191 Right. 436 00:23:13,191 --> 00:23:15,711 They wouldn't be the wealthiest people in Australia right now. 437 00:23:15,711 --> 00:23:20,451 So, um, your goal is to own as much of the finite land as possible, 438 00:23:20,451 --> 00:23:21,651 and then to hold it forever. 439 00:23:23,061 --> 00:23:23,361 Anja: Yeah. 440 00:23:23,496 --> 00:23:27,096 So how do people then live off their Bitcoin? 441 00:23:27,246 --> 00:23:28,956 HODL: There's many different ways to do it, right? 442 00:23:29,106 --> 00:23:32,466 You can, right now, you can lend against your Bitcoin. 443 00:23:32,586 --> 00:23:35,976 Uh, you can, you know, right now I can borrow against. 444 00:23:37,461 --> 00:23:41,331 Things like ibit at Central Bank rates, you know, and that's the 445 00:23:41,331 --> 00:23:46,131 beautiful thing of, of the tradify world kind of joining, uh, Bitcoin. 446 00:23:46,611 --> 00:23:51,531 It's like I can go to private banks in Australia, in Switzerland and 447 00:23:51,531 --> 00:23:57,141 Singapore, anywhere, and borrow against my ibit, um, at Central Bank rates. 448 00:23:57,261 --> 00:23:58,041 So you could do that. 449 00:23:58,041 --> 00:23:58,971 That's one way to do it. 450 00:23:59,031 --> 00:24:03,351 Another way to do it is to use income funds that, that are out there, 451 00:24:03,351 --> 00:24:06,261 like Michael Sailors, STRC, right. 452 00:24:06,501 --> 00:24:11,121 So there's, there's ways that you can now start to do that, but I 453 00:24:11,121 --> 00:24:12,951 still don't think it's time yet. 454 00:24:13,071 --> 00:24:14,691 I don't think that market is matured. 455 00:24:14,691 --> 00:24:15,831 It's still maturing. 456 00:24:16,101 --> 00:24:20,031 So if right now you should either have a business or have a job. 457 00:24:20,586 --> 00:24:26,136 Uh, and that's how you, that's how you, that's how you quote unquote survive until 458 00:24:26,136 --> 00:24:30,666 that economy and that world is built out, which it is being built out at this point. 459 00:24:32,046 --> 00:24:32,346 Anja: Yeah. 460 00:24:32,346 --> 00:24:38,016 I'm in my accumulation phase and I hope to stay there for as long as I can. 461 00:24:39,311 --> 00:24:43,031 Um, and then, yeah, but I definitely have an interest in these products. 462 00:24:43,031 --> 00:24:47,831 I just don't, I, I'm just not there yet in my journey to even start considering them. 463 00:24:47,831 --> 00:24:51,641 But I do see that, you know, they're important to understand. 464 00:24:51,641 --> 00:24:57,311 But what I heard you say on one of your, um, podcast episodes is that one of the 465 00:24:57,311 --> 00:25:01,721 things you are really passionate about is bridging the gap between trad fi 466 00:25:01,781 --> 00:25:07,876 and Bitcoin, which is also one of the reasons that I started this podcast. 467 00:25:08,296 --> 00:25:10,876 In fact, a few people of the interviewed are kind of like, 468 00:25:10,876 --> 00:25:12,736 have their foot in both worlds. 469 00:25:12,736 --> 00:25:17,086 But, um, just on that, like why, why do you think that is so important? 470 00:25:17,206 --> 00:25:23,086 HODL: Well, because there's two parts to, to, to, to this idea of money right there, 471 00:25:23,086 --> 00:25:30,376 there's, there's money and then there's currency and money has been confused. 472 00:25:31,026 --> 00:25:36,816 As currency, like US dollars, Australian dollars, pounds is not technically money. 473 00:25:37,176 --> 00:25:38,286 That's a currency. 474 00:25:38,646 --> 00:25:43,356 And how it works is you have money, which is your real estate, your 475 00:25:43,356 --> 00:25:48,096 equities, your gold, your Bitcoin, and then at some point you convert 476 00:25:48,216 --> 00:25:53,586 that real money into currency to then activate that currency in the economy. 477 00:25:53,586 --> 00:25:54,501 However you wanna do that. 478 00:25:56,076 --> 00:25:59,016 In that process, in that conversion process, there's 479 00:25:59,016 --> 00:26:00,486 something called credit markets. 480 00:26:01,416 --> 00:26:04,176 And that credit mar, it's very important to understand how to 481 00:26:04,176 --> 00:26:07,806 use that credit market so that you never need to sell the actual money. 482 00:26:08,796 --> 00:26:10,896 That's how wealthy people stay wealthy. 483 00:26:11,436 --> 00:26:16,446 So when Bitcoiners wanna say, no, I can just spend my Bitcoin right. 484 00:26:17,271 --> 00:26:22,461 You're an idiot because that's never how long-term wealth has ever been created. 485 00:26:22,761 --> 00:26:28,131 There is a process of using the credit markets to convert some of that money 486 00:26:28,221 --> 00:26:30,621 into currency that then, then can be used. 487 00:26:30,831 --> 00:26:32,601 And so that's the Tradify world. 488 00:26:32,601 --> 00:26:35,661 That's why Tradify is here, because they see this process going on 489 00:26:35,661 --> 00:26:39,351 and they know that Bitcoin's gonna be a great way to use. 490 00:26:39,541 --> 00:26:43,891 To, to to, to put the credit markets on top of the Bitcoin to 491 00:26:43,891 --> 00:26:45,511 then expand the credit markets. 492 00:26:45,511 --> 00:26:46,351 That's why they're here. 493 00:26:46,351 --> 00:26:50,821 And, and your job is, should be to figure out how to, how to use those markets. 494 00:26:50,971 --> 00:26:52,891 Anja: Yeah, I do have a confession. 495 00:26:52,891 --> 00:26:56,341 I do spend a little bit, but that is only because I make I rational 496 00:26:56,341 --> 00:27:01,831 economic decisions to hopefully make Bitcoin the medium of exchange. 497 00:27:01,936 --> 00:27:02,536 I dunno. 498 00:27:04,156 --> 00:27:05,521 HODL: Yeah, I mean, I think again, hall, 499 00:27:08,421 --> 00:27:10,671 I think that's a hallucination in the Bitcoin space. 500 00:27:10,671 --> 00:27:13,671 It's one of the things that, you know, I've been, uh, I've 501 00:27:13,671 --> 00:27:16,221 been criticized for as well. 502 00:27:16,221 --> 00:27:20,001 I, I think that, you know, I call it the circle jerk economy of, 503 00:27:20,001 --> 00:27:23,811 uh, of, of, of, you know, everyone trying to spend their Bitcoin. 504 00:27:23,811 --> 00:27:26,031 It's like, you know, and then people come back and go, oh, 505 00:27:26,031 --> 00:27:27,321 but you can spend and replace. 506 00:27:27,321 --> 00:27:30,561 So I'm like, well, you're an even bigger moron because in most of 507 00:27:30,561 --> 00:27:33,501 these Western countries, you've got a capital gains liability. 508 00:27:34,611 --> 00:27:39,531 So you can spend your Bitcoin, but unless you are committing tax fraud, you have to 509 00:27:39,531 --> 00:27:42,201 pay a tax on whatever Bitcoin you spent. 510 00:27:42,876 --> 00:27:45,396 So why didn't you just spend the fucking dollars to start with? 511 00:27:45,516 --> 00:27:46,416 Anja: Great point. 512 00:27:46,416 --> 00:27:51,156 But in Australia, we do have like up to $10,000 for personal use and you 513 00:27:51,156 --> 00:27:55,296 have to kind of spend it, you know, if you've acquired it, you have to 514 00:27:55,296 --> 00:27:57,366 spend it win, win a certain timeframe. 515 00:27:57,606 --> 00:27:59,031 You can't like, wait for, see, I, I want Bitcoiners 516 00:27:59,611 --> 00:28:03,366 HODL: that are, that are, that wanna spend more than $10,000 for personal use. 517 00:28:05,386 --> 00:28:07,396 Anja: No, I, I I've not spent that much. 518 00:28:07,396 --> 00:28:11,476 It is just like when, when there's bitcoin events and things like that. 519 00:28:11,506 --> 00:28:17,446 Um, I do like to spend a little bit, but I, I appreciate your perspective and I 520 00:28:17,446 --> 00:28:21,016 think it's funny, um, for calling it out. 521 00:28:21,136 --> 00:28:23,941 Have you had any other criticisms in what you do? 522 00:28:24,136 --> 00:28:26,416 'cause I, like, I do appreciate criticize 523 00:28:26,416 --> 00:28:27,016 HODL: every day. 524 00:28:27,346 --> 00:28:29,746 I get criticized every day for everything I say. 525 00:28:29,746 --> 00:28:30,796 There's a criticism. 526 00:28:31,096 --> 00:28:34,306 I've been in this now for four years, and if I didn't have the 527 00:28:34,306 --> 00:28:38,536 thick skin that I do have, I would've probably been depressed, uh, by now. 528 00:28:38,536 --> 00:28:40,246 Like it's just, it is what it is. 529 00:28:40,246 --> 00:28:43,726 Like people have, I got criticized for saying BlackRock 530 00:28:43,726 --> 00:28:45,406 was absolutely coming into it. 531 00:28:45,436 --> 00:28:48,946 When they filed the ETF application, I got called a moron for a year until the 532 00:28:48,946 --> 00:28:54,496 ETF went through because like the fact that BlackRock filed that application 533 00:28:54,496 --> 00:28:56,776 told you it was happening, but. 534 00:28:57,396 --> 00:29:02,106 Bitcoiners didn't see that because they needed to see the actual result. 535 00:29:02,826 --> 00:29:05,316 But that's never how Tradify signaling works. 536 00:29:05,766 --> 00:29:05,946 Speaker 3: No. 537 00:29:06,426 --> 00:29:06,666 That 538 00:29:07,776 --> 00:29:09,996 HODL: so I've been, I've been criticized for everything, so yeah. 539 00:29:09,996 --> 00:29:11,646 What You can go down the laundry list. 540 00:29:11,646 --> 00:29:14,796 Everything I ever talk about, I get criticized for whatever 541 00:29:14,796 --> 00:29:15,876 it, every single thing. 542 00:29:16,956 --> 00:29:17,466 Okay. 543 00:29:17,466 --> 00:29:20,676 Anja: I'm at, I'm at that stage in my podcasting journey where the 544 00:29:20,676 --> 00:29:23,136 criticism is still very like scarce. 545 00:29:23,766 --> 00:29:27,816 Like, there're not, there's not that many, but yeah, I'm not, I'm not sure 546 00:29:27,816 --> 00:29:28,891 my skin is what you getting criticize. 547 00:29:29,191 --> 00:29:32,691 Um, mostly the criticisms just come from. 548 00:29:33,361 --> 00:29:37,891 Like trolls, just, you know, someone seeing a YouTube show and 549 00:29:37,891 --> 00:29:39,421 saying, Bitcoin's going to zero. 550 00:29:39,421 --> 00:29:40,171 And it's like, okay. 551 00:29:40,591 --> 00:29:41,851 Like, things like that. 552 00:29:41,851 --> 00:29:43,831 It's not really criticizing me directly, but 553 00:29:44,131 --> 00:29:44,261 HODL: That's on. 554 00:29:44,261 --> 00:29:48,271 You're on like, uh, you're on, you're on uh, baby trolls right now, just baby T. 555 00:29:48,271 --> 00:29:48,331 Yeah. 556 00:29:49,556 --> 00:29:52,586 Anja: Uh, I got criticized the by the BSV guys. 557 00:29:52,646 --> 00:29:54,086 Um, they came after me. 558 00:29:54,416 --> 00:29:59,756 I have been criticized on LinkedIn by tried fi and that was very interesting 559 00:29:59,756 --> 00:30:04,016 because when I first started talking about Bitcoin and just writing some 560 00:30:04,016 --> 00:30:09,986 posts about it, um, it really seems to trigger a lot of trad fire professionals, 561 00:30:09,986 --> 00:30:11,726 which I found very interesting. 562 00:30:12,176 --> 00:30:14,311 Um, wait, yeah, like some, there's 563 00:30:14,311 --> 00:30:15,746 HODL: people using LinkedIn still. 564 00:30:16,106 --> 00:30:16,711 That's still a thing. 565 00:30:17,126 --> 00:30:17,246 Yes. 566 00:30:18,086 --> 00:30:18,986 Still, I don't even know. 567 00:30:19,646 --> 00:30:23,576 Anja: Yeah, no, there was like some very like high positions 568 00:30:23,576 --> 00:30:26,546 like CEOs and quants and, 569 00:30:26,786 --> 00:30:29,846 HODL: well, everyone, the fucking CEO now everyone's a CEO of their 570 00:30:29,846 --> 00:30:31,826 own $40,000 a year business. 571 00:30:31,826 --> 00:30:34,526 Like you never know who the, who's the CEO anymore. 572 00:30:34,526 --> 00:30:36,361 It's like, you know, I don't. 573 00:30:37,551 --> 00:30:39,411 Yeah, I don't take anyone seriously on the internet. 574 00:30:39,411 --> 00:30:40,311 It doesn't matter to me. 575 00:30:40,371 --> 00:30:42,171 It just, it's the internet. 576 00:30:42,231 --> 00:30:47,781 You know, I, I, my favorite are the, like, I had trolls coming after me. 577 00:30:48,321 --> 00:30:51,471 For like everything my past. 578 00:30:51,471 --> 00:30:54,111 They dig up every they do, and I keep telling them. 579 00:30:54,111 --> 00:30:55,851 I'm like, I was DMing one of 'em. 580 00:30:55,851 --> 00:31:00,171 I was like, you keep firing the same bullets, like, and they keep bouncing 581 00:31:00,171 --> 00:31:01,671 off and you're not learning your lesson. 582 00:31:01,671 --> 00:31:03,051 Like, let me teach you how to do this. 583 00:31:03,381 --> 00:31:07,611 If you want to actually try and make, take a shot. 584 00:31:07,941 --> 00:31:10,461 You need to use, you need to load a different bullet in the chamber. 585 00:31:11,106 --> 00:31:12,696 Like, stop saying the same thing. 586 00:31:12,696 --> 00:31:13,596 Go find something else. 587 00:31:13,596 --> 00:31:15,096 And of course they can't find anything else. 588 00:31:15,396 --> 00:31:16,266 Anja: Pick a different weapon. 589 00:31:17,046 --> 00:31:17,646 HODL: There's nothing. 590 00:31:17,646 --> 00:31:17,916 Yeah. 591 00:31:17,976 --> 00:31:20,676 So they, but they, so they keep firing the same thing and it's like, 592 00:31:20,676 --> 00:31:22,176 okay, well this just doesn't work. 593 00:31:22,176 --> 00:31:26,976 And of course, you know, people that are rational, logical, high net worth. 594 00:31:27,356 --> 00:31:30,866 The target audience that I'm trying to speak to, the more they listen to what I'm 595 00:31:30,866 --> 00:31:34,886 saying, the more it makes sense to them because they're actually adults and then 596 00:31:35,486 --> 00:31:37,706 they come into my vortex and that's all. 597 00:31:37,706 --> 00:31:38,546 That's all I'm looking for. 598 00:31:38,546 --> 00:31:41,456 I'm looking for people that actually, you know, who my message is for, 599 00:31:41,756 --> 00:31:44,366 to come into the vortex and get to enough Bitcoin for themselves. 600 00:31:45,366 --> 00:31:45,726 Speaker 3: Hmm. 601 00:31:46,146 --> 00:31:47,196 Anja: You're very efficient. 602 00:31:47,316 --> 00:31:48,366 HODL: I'm very efficient, 603 00:31:48,876 --> 00:31:49,416 Anja: yes. 604 00:31:49,596 --> 00:31:52,926 Like you answer very succinctly, and we've kind of moved through 605 00:31:52,926 --> 00:31:54,426 my questions very quickly. 606 00:31:54,451 --> 00:31:54,741 I've, 607 00:31:54,741 --> 00:31:58,026 HODL: I've done this, I've done this, uh, I've done this a couple times, 608 00:31:58,176 --> 00:32:00,516 Anja: but you know, some people just like really. 609 00:32:01,176 --> 00:32:04,116 Elaborate things, you know and tell long. 610 00:32:04,116 --> 00:32:04,266 I think, 611 00:32:05,106 --> 00:32:08,856 HODL: I think you know, a lot, a couple of people, a couple of podcasters have said 612 00:32:08,856 --> 00:32:14,766 that to me, and I think it comes down to I'm very, I, I am really not interested 613 00:32:14,766 --> 00:32:17,526 in having a profile on the internet. 614 00:32:18,161 --> 00:32:22,301 Like my, my decision to become British Hollow and to talk about this and 615 00:32:22,301 --> 00:32:26,951 put myself out there was because I realized that people, like my parents 616 00:32:26,951 --> 00:32:28,631 were about to get completely fucked. 617 00:32:28,751 --> 00:32:31,721 Like they've spent 35 years building a property portfolio. 618 00:32:32,496 --> 00:32:34,506 That property portfolio is about to be rugged. 619 00:32:34,536 --> 00:32:37,536 'cause you can't just keep compounding real estate at 15% a 620 00:32:37,536 --> 00:32:40,746 year without productivity in the economy going up and wages going up. 621 00:32:40,806 --> 00:32:41,676 It's not possible. 622 00:32:41,676 --> 00:32:43,326 It's not feasibly possible. 623 00:32:43,446 --> 00:32:47,376 And then Tradify saw Bitcoin was like, wait a second, we can just print as 624 00:32:47,376 --> 00:32:51,246 much money as we want, shove it into this asset and there's no one jumping 625 00:32:51,246 --> 00:32:55,596 off a building, no one being homeless, no social consequences at all of this. 626 00:32:55,986 --> 00:32:58,446 So I kind of saw, okay, this is the path that's gonna go down. 627 00:32:59,076 --> 00:33:04,626 And so, you know, I have a very, everything I'm saying, I crystal clear, 628 00:33:04,626 --> 00:33:08,646 know exactly who I'm talking to and what message I wanna put out there. 629 00:33:08,976 --> 00:33:11,856 Um, you know, and I, and I try and avoid all the distractions. 630 00:33:11,856 --> 00:33:14,106 So I guess it will take that as a efficiency. 631 00:33:15,096 --> 00:33:15,546 Anja: Hmm. 632 00:33:16,116 --> 00:33:20,736 And I did hear you say that you feel like you don't fully fit into the Tri, tri by 633 00:33:20,736 --> 00:33:24,546 World, and you also don't fully fit, like, you don't feel like a full on Bitcoin. 634 00:33:24,906 --> 00:33:26,706 Uh, what do you feel like? 635 00:33:26,916 --> 00:33:28,416 HODL: I feel like myself, I don't know. 636 00:33:28,701 --> 00:33:31,416 I don't, I don't really try and fit in like wherever. 637 00:33:31,416 --> 00:33:33,726 If I see a good idea, I'm gonna say it's a good idea. 638 00:33:33,726 --> 00:33:36,936 If I think it's a bad idea and then it turns out to be a 639 00:33:36,936 --> 00:33:38,166 good idea, I say I was wrong. 640 00:33:38,166 --> 00:33:39,936 And it was a, it was actually a good idea. 641 00:33:39,936 --> 00:33:40,296 So. 642 00:33:41,076 --> 00:33:43,266 Yeah, I don't, um, I don't try and fit in. 643 00:33:43,266 --> 00:33:46,686 I just try and take what makes logical sense, which way the world is 644 00:33:46,686 --> 00:33:49,266 gonna go and, and try and say that. 645 00:33:49,266 --> 00:33:53,646 And then, of course, people with, uh, delusional thoughts about how the world's 646 00:33:53,646 --> 00:33:58,776 really gonna work hate that because it's, you know, it's like telling them that 647 00:33:58,776 --> 00:34:01,656 they're not gonna get their favorite toy at Christmas, so they lose their minds. 648 00:34:01,656 --> 00:34:06,126 It's just, it's, it's, it's part of, part of the game, I guess. 649 00:34:06,936 --> 00:34:08,901 I, I don't really try, I don't really feel like That's very interesting. 650 00:34:09,196 --> 00:34:12,771 Anja: I'm very curious to know what, what's something about Bitcoin 651 00:34:12,771 --> 00:34:16,311 did you say in the past that you turned out to be wrong about? 652 00:34:17,151 --> 00:34:18,471 HODL: Let, give perfect example. 653 00:34:18,471 --> 00:34:24,951 This was, and it is gonna be crazy, so I bought MSTR on the very first 654 00:34:24,981 --> 00:34:29,151 trading day after they announced the Bitcoin strategy in 2020. 655 00:34:30,036 --> 00:34:36,876 The very first trading day I saw it and I thought, this is gonna be trad FI's way 656 00:34:36,876 --> 00:34:41,196 to get Bitcoin exposure because there's no ETFs, there's nothing so fantastic. 657 00:34:41,286 --> 00:34:42,426 You would say fantastic. 658 00:34:42,426 --> 00:34:42,786 Right? 659 00:34:43,716 --> 00:34:44,676 I was right on that. 660 00:34:45,756 --> 00:34:49,866 The ETF came out, the ibit ETF came out and as it was coming out I was 661 00:34:49,866 --> 00:34:54,456 like, I don't know if MSTR still has the same value proposition that 662 00:34:54,456 --> 00:34:59,376 I saw when I, um, when I bought it. 663 00:35:00,096 --> 00:35:06,636 So when the ETF came out, I downsized my position in MSTR and converted it to ibit. 664 00:35:07,626 --> 00:35:12,276 I was right for about three weeks and then I was aggressively wrong 665 00:35:12,276 --> 00:35:17,286 for three months and I had to sit there and go, why the hell was I, 666 00:35:17,376 --> 00:35:19,386 what, what am I not seeing here? 667 00:35:19,896 --> 00:35:20,346 Right? 668 00:35:20,796 --> 00:35:27,186 And then I realized that MST R'S value proposition was not, was never an an ETF. 669 00:35:28,251 --> 00:35:32,871 It was a speculative platform built on top of Bitcoin's volatility. 670 00:35:32,901 --> 00:35:35,451 And then once I understood that, I had to regain my position. 671 00:35:35,451 --> 00:35:39,801 And I'm still probably thousands and thousands of shares short compared 672 00:35:39,801 --> 00:35:41,181 to what I, what I had before. 673 00:35:41,901 --> 00:35:43,551 But you know, we're doing all right. 674 00:35:43,671 --> 00:35:44,661 Anja: I love that story. 675 00:35:44,931 --> 00:35:45,651 I love that story. 676 00:35:46,011 --> 00:35:50,631 Speaker 4: Need a way to sign, verify and secure your Bitcoin Australia's 677 00:35:50,631 --> 00:35:52,221 one-stop shop for Bitcoiners. 678 00:35:52,371 --> 00:35:56,811 Has you covered from signing devices, nodes, and backup solutions? 679 00:35:57,111 --> 00:36:02,136 To bid access day decor and apparel, visit shop bitcoin.com au. 680 00:36:05,691 --> 00:36:06,201 Anja: So, 681 00:36:07,356 --> 00:36:07,576 HODL: so, 682 00:36:07,641 --> 00:36:08,061 Anja: and I went 683 00:36:08,061 --> 00:36:09,351 HODL: through this in public, by the way. 684 00:36:09,381 --> 00:36:11,121 I had a video come out Yeah. 685 00:36:11,121 --> 00:36:13,701 Telling people I'm selling my MT, I'm selling it. 686 00:36:14,466 --> 00:36:17,886 And then months later, I had a video coming out where I'm buying back my 687 00:36:17,886 --> 00:36:20,796 MSTR. This is why I'm buying it back, and this is what I was wrong on. 688 00:36:20,796 --> 00:36:25,266 So this has been out like this is, you can see this transition 689 00:36:25,266 --> 00:36:25,896 through my YouTube journey. 690 00:36:26,676 --> 00:36:27,216 Anja: Yeah. 691 00:36:27,666 --> 00:36:28,146 Yeah. 692 00:36:28,146 --> 00:36:30,246 That's like, it takes a lot of courage. 693 00:36:30,276 --> 00:36:35,496 Um, I find like to just put yourself out there like, like, I don't know. 694 00:36:36,161 --> 00:36:37,176 I, I think it does, 695 00:36:37,266 --> 00:36:38,256 HODL: it takes a lot of courage. 696 00:36:38,256 --> 00:36:39,336 Anja: Mm-hmm. 697 00:36:39,756 --> 00:36:40,566 I think so. 698 00:36:40,626 --> 00:36:42,606 HODL: Maybe, so, maybe that's what, I don't know. 699 00:36:43,476 --> 00:36:44,466 Maybe it is, maybe it is courageous. 700 00:36:44,471 --> 00:36:44,611 Yeah. 701 00:36:44,771 --> 00:36:45,171 I dunno. 702 00:36:45,906 --> 00:36:46,176 Anja: Yeah. 703 00:36:46,176 --> 00:36:47,411 I mean, if, if you're not, I'm 704 00:36:47,491 --> 00:36:49,476 HODL: addicted to being, I'm addicted to being Right. 705 00:36:50,196 --> 00:36:53,046 I'm, I'm absolutely utterly addicted to being Right. 706 00:36:54,126 --> 00:36:58,236 Anja: But are you though, because you, you happen to, you know, admit that 707 00:36:58,236 --> 00:37:00,246 you were very wrong with this, so. 708 00:37:01,506 --> 00:37:01,986 HODL: Absolutely. 709 00:37:02,046 --> 00:37:02,256 Anja: I don't, 710 00:37:02,526 --> 00:37:07,026 HODL: and nobody understands how much I called myself a dickhead 711 00:37:07,356 --> 00:37:08,436 for being wrong about that. 712 00:37:09,486 --> 00:37:12,756 I am absolutely, utterly addicted to being right. 713 00:37:12,756 --> 00:37:19,176 And I felt more stupid than anyone could make me feel in my 714 00:37:19,176 --> 00:37:20,886 own head because I was wrong. 715 00:37:21,066 --> 00:37:21,366 Anja: Yeah. 716 00:37:22,416 --> 00:37:26,911 But explain to me why I bit, why not buy Bitcoin directly? 717 00:37:28,446 --> 00:37:29,826 HODL: Well, there's many different reasons for that. 718 00:37:29,886 --> 00:37:34,806 Number one, you may have, firstly, both are options, right there is 719 00:37:34,806 --> 00:37:38,316 the self custody option, then there is the ibit option number one. 720 00:37:38,316 --> 00:37:42,276 It will always be cheaper to use tra FI's tools on ibit because 721 00:37:42,276 --> 00:37:43,596 the rails are already built. 722 00:37:44,691 --> 00:37:46,521 The insurance policy's already there. 723 00:37:46,521 --> 00:37:47,961 The rail's already built you. 724 00:37:48,141 --> 00:37:51,561 You'll be able to plug into the Tradify infrastructure without any issues, 725 00:37:51,561 --> 00:37:52,611 so it's always gonna be cheaper. 726 00:37:52,611 --> 00:37:56,661 If you want to ever get into borrowing against your Bitcoin, doing any 727 00:37:56,721 --> 00:38:00,651 of the sort of the Tradify stuff, it's always gonna be cheaper to 728 00:38:00,651 --> 00:38:03,741 use ibit than to use SPOT Bitcoin. 729 00:38:04,941 --> 00:38:08,601 Now, saying that further than that, you might have a retirement 730 00:38:08,601 --> 00:38:11,061 account where you cannot buy. 731 00:38:11,706 --> 00:38:12,666 Spot Bitcoin. 732 00:38:12,936 --> 00:38:16,146 You just cannot do it based on the terms of your retirement account, 733 00:38:16,446 --> 00:38:18,126 in which case Ibit is a solution. 734 00:38:18,576 --> 00:38:22,716 You may not give a shit about the quote unquote revolution of Bitcoin, 735 00:38:22,746 --> 00:38:26,796 and what you want is price exposure, and that's what most, most Bitcoiners 736 00:38:26,796 --> 00:38:30,876 kind of miss majority of the world doesn't want the revolution. 737 00:38:30,876 --> 00:38:32,166 They want the price exposure. 738 00:38:33,246 --> 00:38:35,316 And so Ibit becomes an easy way to do that. 739 00:38:35,586 --> 00:38:39,516 You now no longer need to sell your house, sell your equity, sell 740 00:38:39,516 --> 00:38:43,476 whatever, move it over, get a Coinbase account, buy the Coinbase account. 741 00:38:43,806 --> 00:38:49,506 Do you know 17 hours of research order your order, your cold storage wallet? 742 00:38:49,506 --> 00:38:53,076 Then that thing has a leak of data, so I need to order another one. 743 00:38:53,076 --> 00:38:53,946 I need to get that. 744 00:38:53,946 --> 00:38:57,786 You need to understand how, you know, how, how, how your address works. 745 00:38:57,786 --> 00:38:59,286 You then need to go into your exchange. 746 00:38:59,286 --> 00:39:02,016 You then need to, now, with KYC, you gotta tell 'em who's. 747 00:39:02,556 --> 00:39:04,956 Cold storage is, you gotta type the address into it. 748 00:39:04,956 --> 00:39:08,316 It's now gonna take a, now gonna take 10 minutes of you sitting there going, 749 00:39:08,316 --> 00:39:11,826 did I just fuck this up and I've lost all my Bitcoin and it's now gonna 750 00:39:11,826 --> 00:39:13,446 then show up on your cold storage. 751 00:39:13,446 --> 00:39:15,006 Now you've gotta figure out your cold storage. 752 00:39:15,006 --> 00:39:17,106 You now gotta worry about someone bashing you over the head 753 00:39:17,106 --> 00:39:18,276 and taking your cold storage. 754 00:39:18,276 --> 00:39:19,656 You've gotta worry about multisig. 755 00:39:19,656 --> 00:39:21,181 You've gotta do this, that and the other, or. 756 00:39:22,626 --> 00:39:25,266 Just open up your broker account, type in IB and click buy. 757 00:39:25,476 --> 00:39:28,116 That's the friction that's been erased with ib. 758 00:39:28,326 --> 00:39:29,196 Anja: Yeah, yeah. 759 00:39:29,196 --> 00:39:34,506 Obviously, like full disclosure, I am the Revolution Bitcoin person, but I 760 00:39:34,506 --> 00:39:38,706 do see that someone who doesn't have, there should be another, another choice 761 00:39:38,706 --> 00:39:42,666 that, you know, like obviously there's regulatory restrictions or whatever. 762 00:39:42,756 --> 00:39:46,176 You can't put your Bitcoin, I don't know, for retirement account. 763 00:39:46,881 --> 00:39:48,921 You know, it, it makes sense to get ibit. 764 00:39:49,521 --> 00:39:51,981 Um, but yeah, it's, it's, I think it makes 765 00:39:51,981 --> 00:39:55,371 HODL: sense for, I think it makes sense for anyone who's in Bitcoin 766 00:39:55,371 --> 00:39:57,141 to have some cold storage Bitcoin. 767 00:39:57,351 --> 00:40:02,361 And so the way that I've started telling people now is assign a probability on 768 00:40:02,361 --> 00:40:08,001 the world falling apart right within the next decade, and then whatever 769 00:40:08,001 --> 00:40:13,011 that probability is, have that in cold storage now your run bag is safe. 770 00:40:14,196 --> 00:40:17,796 And the rest of it maybe figure out how to use some of these tried five options. 771 00:40:17,856 --> 00:40:19,446 Anja: So what would that be? 772 00:40:19,446 --> 00:40:21,636 What might that be like percentage wise? 773 00:40:21,906 --> 00:40:27,606 Say someone's got a whole coin, like what have you worked that through? 774 00:40:27,606 --> 00:40:28,716 Is that individualized? 775 00:40:29,076 --> 00:40:30,426 HODL: Depends it, it's individual, right? 776 00:40:30,426 --> 00:40:33,186 It depends on what you think or what, what percentage chance 777 00:40:33,186 --> 00:40:34,896 there is for the US falling apart. 778 00:40:35,601 --> 00:40:38,721 In the next decade, what do you, I mean, and by the way, it's not the US 779 00:40:38,721 --> 00:40:43,611 because society, society might fall apart, but the US financial markets, 780 00:40:43,611 --> 00:40:45,591 the US dollar is not gonna fall apart. 781 00:40:46,011 --> 00:40:48,231 So you gotta assign a probability to that. 782 00:40:48,411 --> 00:40:51,561 I think that's sub 10% for the next decade. 783 00:40:52,851 --> 00:40:54,916 I think it's probably sub 5% for the next decade. 784 00:40:56,151 --> 00:40:56,541 Right. 785 00:40:56,721 --> 00:40:58,761 So it depends on, on how you do that. 786 00:40:58,761 --> 00:41:02,121 Plus it depends on how you wanna protect your assets, how you want to do, you know, 787 00:41:02,121 --> 00:41:05,811 there's so many different conversations that are individual conversations 788 00:41:06,231 --> 00:41:08,091 that determine how you allocate your. 789 00:41:09,246 --> 00:41:10,121 Your, your Bitcoin, 790 00:41:10,326 --> 00:41:14,256 Anja: but on that world falling, falling apart scenario, because there's obviously 791 00:41:14,256 --> 00:41:20,916 people like Ray Dalio who, you know, talks about the US being a, at um, 792 00:41:22,356 --> 00:41:27,516 being, I guess at risk of losing the dollar as the world reserve currency. 793 00:41:27,816 --> 00:41:31,776 Then you have Larry Fink saying the same in the investor letter to 794 00:41:31,776 --> 00:41:36,066 BlackRock investors and shareholders in 2025, I think it was last year. 795 00:41:36,756 --> 00:41:36,936 So. 796 00:41:37,746 --> 00:41:42,006 You know when you have kind of like these big players and hedge fund ma hedge fund 797 00:41:42,336 --> 00:41:47,946 managers saying these things, doesn't that seem like for a lot of people, again, 798 00:41:48,366 --> 00:41:54,876 gold and silver going up, that that is a real poss not well to what extent as well? 799 00:41:55,266 --> 00:41:57,996 It might not be like a full fall apart, but it could be. 800 00:41:57,996 --> 00:41:58,721 I partial if the US 801 00:41:59,911 --> 00:42:00,601 Speaker 3: substantial 802 00:42:00,631 --> 00:42:01,601 HODL: fall apart, if the US 803 00:42:01,601 --> 00:42:01,881 Speaker 3: loses. 804 00:42:03,036 --> 00:42:06,666 HODL: No, but if the US loses the US dollar as a reserve currency, 805 00:42:06,666 --> 00:42:10,746 that doesn't mean immediately that the US dollar falls apart, right? 806 00:42:10,746 --> 00:42:12,786 Like it, none of this happens immediately. 807 00:42:13,416 --> 00:42:15,606 So you've gotta be smart, you gotta evaluate. 808 00:42:15,606 --> 00:42:16,626 It's just you, you're val. 809 00:42:16,626 --> 00:42:17,796 You're managing money, right? 810 00:42:17,946 --> 00:42:19,296 You're managing money, right? 811 00:42:19,296 --> 00:42:23,766 So there's going to be some work involved and some thinking involved. 812 00:42:24,036 --> 00:42:27,606 Um, and of course if you don't want to do that, then there's 813 00:42:27,606 --> 00:42:28,926 always the option of popping. 814 00:42:29,676 --> 00:42:35,196 The, the crazy part is, is like no one's saying don't have spot Bitcoin, right? 815 00:42:35,481 --> 00:42:38,706 If, if that's how you feel the most comfortable, that's 816 00:42:38,706 --> 00:42:39,516 how you should have it. 817 00:42:39,516 --> 00:42:43,116 And Bitcoin's beautiful because it's the first time in human history 818 00:42:43,116 --> 00:42:48,516 where you can actually own the spot asset at the same price as a 819 00:42:48,516 --> 00:42:51,156 multimillionaire or Michael Saylor. 820 00:42:51,816 --> 00:42:55,056 Or Larry Fink, we can all own the asset at the exact same price. 821 00:42:55,506 --> 00:42:59,406 So absolutely spot Bitcoin is absolutely an option. 822 00:42:59,406 --> 00:43:01,986 Everyone should, uh, should consider it. 823 00:43:02,076 --> 00:43:04,566 Uh, but again, it depends on your personal situation. 824 00:43:04,575 --> 00:43:06,285 Anja: I think I heard most of that. 825 00:43:06,820 --> 00:43:07,100 Yeah. 826 00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:07,110 Yeah. 827 00:43:08,410 --> 00:43:08,700 Okay. 828 00:43:08,745 --> 00:43:10,755 Well that's given me a lot to think about. 829 00:43:10,755 --> 00:43:10,815 Um. 830 00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:16,230 Yeah, I, I guess I haven't played out all those doomsday scenarios, nor 831 00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:18,150 do I really want to, to be honest. 832 00:43:18,690 --> 00:43:23,430 Like just, I just wanna stack SATs in peace and, you know, 833 00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:27,750 not spend too much time about thinking about the world melting. 834 00:43:28,050 --> 00:43:30,660 But for whatever reason, it does sometimes feel. 835 00:43:32,190 --> 00:43:36,690 That it's almost like been nearly like a hundred years since there's been like 836 00:43:36,690 --> 00:43:39,000 a major, major, major, major crash. 837 00:43:39,330 --> 00:43:41,430 Like 2008 was bad. 838 00:43:42,180 --> 00:43:47,010 But I don't know, like it just, you just pattern wise, it feels 839 00:43:47,010 --> 00:43:48,885 like maybe it's gonna happen. 840 00:43:50,205 --> 00:43:51,135 In the next decade. 841 00:43:51,165 --> 00:43:54,435 HODL: Well, 2008 was really the crash, right? 842 00:43:54,435 --> 00:43:58,875 Like, and that type of credit market freeze happens once 843 00:43:58,875 --> 00:44:00,705 every 80 years on average. 844 00:44:00,765 --> 00:44:03,855 That was funnily enough, that was my first ever recession in business. 845 00:44:04,425 --> 00:44:07,335 So when people tell me we're in a recession, it's kind of a joke 846 00:44:07,335 --> 00:44:11,115 to me now because it's like, you know, 2008 was a recession. 847 00:44:11,325 --> 00:44:15,130 Everything we're seeing now is, is nothing compared to, compared to what that was. 848 00:44:16,380 --> 00:44:18,570 Yeah, I mean, I, I don't think we're gonna see one of those. 849 00:44:18,825 --> 00:44:19,830 I, I, I just don't. 850 00:44:21,330 --> 00:44:21,630 Anja: Yeah. 851 00:44:21,660 --> 00:44:22,650 See that's interesting. 852 00:44:22,650 --> 00:44:28,740 Australia, like, again, I wasn't involved in, in personal finance or finance 853 00:44:28,740 --> 00:44:33,000 very much at the time, but, you know, hearing from people, family and friends 854 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,415 at the time, we didn't seem to get. 855 00:44:36,585 --> 00:44:37,695 That affected by it. 856 00:44:37,695 --> 00:44:41,355 Like yes, a lot of mortgages defaulted. 857 00:44:41,745 --> 00:44:46,905 Um, and some people had to sell their homes, um, before they actually 858 00:44:46,905 --> 00:44:48,645 default on a mortgage, I should say. 859 00:44:49,065 --> 00:44:54,045 Um, and, and you know, most, for the most part, people recovered 860 00:44:54,045 --> 00:44:56,240 fair fairly well, but even know why. 861 00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:57,945 It feels like 862 00:44:58,125 --> 00:44:59,355 HODL: why, you know why? 863 00:44:59,355 --> 00:44:59,745 Right. 864 00:44:59,745 --> 00:45:01,305 They recovered because they turned on the money. 865 00:45:01,305 --> 00:45:01,815 Printers. 866 00:45:01,965 --> 00:45:02,385 That's it. 867 00:45:03,195 --> 00:45:04,335 Anja: In Australia, don't. 868 00:45:06,810 --> 00:45:10,860 Yeah, I, I, I don't know off the top of my head what happened in Australia. 869 00:45:10,860 --> 00:45:14,760 There was like obviously a massive in injection of, of money into the 870 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,300 economy during COVID, but I wasn't really paying attention to how, 871 00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:21,000 what, what was happening around 2008. 872 00:45:21,060 --> 00:45:24,240 I just don't remember, like what I'm trying to say. 873 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:28,770 Like the economy didn't feel as bad back then than it does now in Australia. 874 00:45:29,220 --> 00:45:30,300 It feels worse now. 875 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,440 A lot of people feel like we're in a recession even though the 876 00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:35,880 GDP P is not saying that we are. 877 00:45:37,620 --> 00:45:40,740 HODL: Yeah, I mean, you know, there's, there's many different reasons for what 878 00:45:40,740 --> 00:45:45,510 you're feeling right now, but it certain certainly is completely different to 2008. 879 00:45:46,020 --> 00:45:46,290 Anja: Yeah. 880 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:46,830 Okay. 881 00:45:46,830 --> 00:45:49,200 Well thank you so much for your time. 882 00:45:49,845 --> 00:45:56,025 I would love for you to share any kind of final thoughts with my audience and maybe 883 00:45:56,025 --> 00:46:00,225 like, obviously I'll drop in the note section in terms of how they can find you. 884 00:46:00,615 --> 00:46:01,635 Um, but do you have anything? 885 00:46:01,695 --> 00:46:02,385 Any last words? 886 00:46:03,795 --> 00:46:05,265 HODL: Step number one, you buy Bitcoin. 887 00:46:05,355 --> 00:46:07,065 Step number two, shut the fuck up. 888 00:46:07,095 --> 00:46:09,255 And step number three, you get fabulously wealthy. 889 00:46:09,405 --> 00:46:10,245 Anja: There we have it. 890 00:46:10,245 --> 00:46:11,175 Thanks so much. 891 00:46:11,895 --> 00:46:12,495 HODL: My pleasure. 892 00:46:12,503 --> 00:46:14,993 Speaker 2: Still here you are one of the good ones. 893 00:46:15,473 --> 00:46:18,113 We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. 894 00:46:18,473 --> 00:46:22,193 If you enjoy how we cut through the noise, consider supporting us 895 00:46:22,193 --> 00:46:24,443 directly via the Lightning QR code. 896 00:46:24,953 --> 00:46:26,993 Got a question or a thought to share? 897 00:46:27,383 --> 00:46:28,733 Comments are wide open. 898 00:46:29,033 --> 00:46:30,263 We'd love to hear from you. 899 00:46:30,373 --> 00:46:35,653 For bonus content and updates, follow us on socials at Honest Money Show. 900 00:46:36,703 --> 00:46:41,533 Until next week, take care of yourself and your money and stay decentralized.