WEBVTT 00:00:03.130 --> 00:00:06.000 Matt Abrahams: This Tech Tools miniseries is brought to you by Prezi, the 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:10.110 presentation tool that makes your ideas easy to follow, hard to forget, and 00:00:10.110 --> 00:00:12.605 faster than ever to create with Prezi AI. 00:00:13.860 --> 00:00:17.400 The best investment is in the tools of one's own trade. 00:00:17.550 --> 00:00:20.325 At Think Fast Talk Smart, we are taking this quote by Benjamin 00:00:20.325 --> 00:00:24.330 Franklin, the famous US inventor and founding father, very seriously. 00:00:24.570 --> 00:00:28.950 As you know, our show strives to share tips and techniques to help you hone and 00:00:28.950 --> 00:00:31.260 improve your communication and careers. 00:00:31.530 --> 00:00:35.790 These practices and approaches can be augmented with tools and technology. 00:00:36.150 --> 00:00:37.200 I'm Matt Abrahams. 00:00:37.290 --> 00:00:40.620 I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. 00:00:40.950 --> 00:00:46.080 Welcome to this Tech Tools miniseries of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:00:46.710 --> 00:00:50.850 In this multi-part miniseries, we'll introduce you to tools we use at Think 00:00:50.850 --> 00:00:55.530 Fast Talk Smart to help us be better at our spoken and written communication. 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:59.400 And you'll learn best practices from the founders who created them. 00:00:59.730 --> 00:01:03.270 Taken together, we hope these communication tools will help you find 00:01:03.270 --> 00:01:06.030 new ways to think fast and talk smart. 00:01:06.720 --> 00:01:10.740 I'm excited to speak today with Joe Thomas, who's one of the founders and 00:01:10.740 --> 00:01:13.740 the CEO of Loom, now part of Atlassian. 00:01:14.009 --> 00:01:14.970 Well, Joe, welcome. 00:01:14.970 --> 00:01:16.110 Thanks for joining me. 00:01:16.500 --> 00:01:18.179 Joe Thomas: Thank you so much for having me, Matt. 00:01:18.240 --> 00:01:21.720 Matt Abrahams: Some of our listeners might not know exactly what Loom is. 00:01:22.020 --> 00:01:26.550 Can you share what your product is using the elevator pitch structure that I teach 00:01:26.550 --> 00:01:33.000 to my MBA students, what if you could, so that, for example, and that's not all. 00:01:33.240 --> 00:01:33.750 Joe Thomas: Certainly. 00:01:33.930 --> 00:01:40.290 So what if you could record a quick video showing your screen, including a camera 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:45.090 bubble, where the video is instantly ready to share, to communicate complex 00:01:45.090 --> 00:01:50.640 ideas with anyone anytime, so that you can save time, reduce misunderstandings, 00:01:50.700 --> 00:01:55.065 and build stronger connections with your team, no matter their availability 00:01:55.185 --> 00:01:56.295 or where they are in the world. 00:01:56.565 --> 00:02:00.405 For example, with Loom, instead of typing out a long note to explain a 00:02:00.405 --> 00:02:04.305 project or walk through a slide deck live in a meeting, you can record a 00:02:04.305 --> 00:02:06.914 video for your team to move work forward. 00:02:07.305 --> 00:02:09.884 Over ten million Loom videos are shared per month. 00:02:10.125 --> 00:02:10.965 And that's not all. 00:02:11.265 --> 00:02:16.065 Loom utilizes AI to transcribe your video and auto draft a relevant title, 00:02:16.395 --> 00:02:20.715 summary, chapters, and action items, including helping you polish the video, 00:02:20.715 --> 00:02:25.365 removing filler words and silences so you can communicate even more effectively. 00:02:25.695 --> 00:02:27.285 No video editing skills required. 00:02:27.345 --> 00:02:30.825 Matt Abrahams: That was very well done in that structure and very clear. 00:02:30.945 --> 00:02:33.465 I'm curious, what led you to create Loom? 00:02:33.705 --> 00:02:37.905 Joe Thomas: When we were starting out in 2015, myself and two co-founders, 00:02:37.905 --> 00:02:43.245 what we observed was that video was everywhere in our personal lives from 00:02:43.245 --> 00:02:45.255 a consumer landscape perspective. 00:02:45.645 --> 00:02:49.230 But when we would show up to work, video recording and 00:02:49.230 --> 00:02:50.790 sharing was nowhere to be seen. 00:02:50.850 --> 00:02:55.440 Where I was working at the time, we were still using Microsoft Outlook for emails. 00:02:55.440 --> 00:02:58.200 Slack was just starting to become a thing. 00:02:58.620 --> 00:03:03.704 When we looked at what the existing software and offerings provided, 00:03:03.885 --> 00:03:06.015 it was really complex to use. 00:03:06.045 --> 00:03:09.615 You would record a video, it would save a local file on your desktop. 00:03:09.945 --> 00:03:13.125 You had an app to upload it to Dropbox or Google Drive. 00:03:13.125 --> 00:03:16.745 By the time you were ready to actually share a link, it had already been twenty, 00:03:16.745 --> 00:03:20.144 twenty-five minutes, and we felt like there was a ton of latent potential 00:03:20.144 --> 00:03:23.475 within this space to bring video recording and sharing to the workplace, 00:03:23.805 --> 00:03:26.985 based off of the fact that consumer behavior tends to leave the enterprise. 00:03:27.345 --> 00:03:30.915 Now, to be clear, we had a core thesis of bringing video to the workplace. 00:03:31.335 --> 00:03:35.385 But from November 2015 when we started building to June of 2016, so 00:03:35.385 --> 00:03:39.015 nine months, we had a couple major pivots about how we would apply 00:03:39.015 --> 00:03:40.424 it and bring it to the workplace. 00:03:40.605 --> 00:03:44.144 But ultimately, what we've built, and what we've been building against now 00:03:44.144 --> 00:03:49.095 for nine years, is how do we enable more people to use async video as 00:03:49.095 --> 00:03:50.535 part of their core communication? 00:03:50.735 --> 00:03:51.515 Matt Abrahams: Thank you for that. 00:03:51.515 --> 00:03:55.275 And one of the big powers of what you've created is that it is asynchronous. 00:03:55.305 --> 00:03:56.705 You don't have to be in live connection. 00:03:56.705 --> 00:03:59.975 Many of us, thanks to the pandemic, are very familiar with synchronous 00:03:59.975 --> 00:04:04.535 communication, but the tool allows you to do this asynchronously and provide very 00:04:04.535 --> 00:04:07.115 specific videos for people to leverage. 00:04:07.515 --> 00:04:11.745 Now I know beyond just really thinking about bringing video to the enterprise, 00:04:11.745 --> 00:04:16.245 you spend a lot of time thinking about how to integrate videos into 00:04:16.245 --> 00:04:18.075 our work life and our workflows. 00:04:18.404 --> 00:04:22.995 What best practices have you learned that can really help people be more effective 00:04:22.995 --> 00:04:24.745 at integrating video into what they do? 00:04:25.349 --> 00:04:29.460 Joe Thomas: It's funny 'cause in listening to this podcast and other episodes, 00:04:29.490 --> 00:04:34.260 I feel like a lot of things end up being consistent in terms of what is 00:04:34.320 --> 00:04:36.570 good ways to use asynchronous video. 00:04:36.630 --> 00:04:40.710 And one of those is, you already talked about it, which is show, don't tell. 00:04:40.770 --> 00:04:44.610 I think one of the things about Loom is that ninety-three percent of videos 00:04:44.610 --> 00:04:48.030 that are recorded on our platform, they have a screen component to them. 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:49.650 They're not just talking heads. 00:04:49.860 --> 00:04:54.025 And that allows people to show their work, not just tell about it. 00:04:54.145 --> 00:04:55.705 There's also, keep it concise. 00:04:55.975 --> 00:05:01.645 We actually have a feature on our free tier of loom that is a five minute limit, 00:05:01.765 --> 00:05:04.645 and we have had a lot of people talk about the fact that it should be a paid 00:05:04.645 --> 00:05:06.745 feature to implement a recording limit. 00:05:06.805 --> 00:05:09.895 And then the third thing that I think about is being authentic. 00:05:10.245 --> 00:05:15.165 The thing about recording video and sending it is that you can watch it back. 00:05:15.165 --> 00:05:19.125 You can hear your own voice, you can know the stumbles and say, I can rerecord that. 00:05:19.125 --> 00:05:20.385 I might be able to do it better. 00:05:20.625 --> 00:05:24.195 But in a meeting, you can't go back, in a face-to-face conversation, 00:05:24.195 --> 00:05:25.905 you can't go back in time, right? 00:05:25.905 --> 00:05:28.965 And so just be authentic and lean into that authenticity. 00:05:28.965 --> 00:05:32.235 And that's what really resonates and builds trust with people. 00:05:32.414 --> 00:05:36.045 And the last thing that I'd say with async video is that even though we're 00:05:36.045 --> 00:05:41.145 bringing consumer behavior to the workplace, it is still a new skill for 00:05:41.145 --> 00:05:46.005 a lot of people to record and share video as a form of communication. 00:05:46.275 --> 00:05:50.805 And so just think of async video as a skill that you can build and 00:05:50.805 --> 00:05:52.030 develop over the course of time. 00:05:52.710 --> 00:05:57.360 We actually have had many users and customers write into us that they 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:00.840 started using Loom and because it was the only consistent way that 00:06:00.840 --> 00:06:04.950 they've ever heard themselves played back, that they've improved their 00:06:04.950 --> 00:06:09.120 communication as a result of just clicking play on themselves, no matter 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:11.535 how painful it is, because pain is gain. 00:06:11.585 --> 00:06:13.865 And so just think of async video as a skill. 00:06:14.165 --> 00:06:17.495 Matt Abrahams: Taking the time to watch yourself is perhaps the best 00:06:17.495 --> 00:06:19.535 way to improve communication skills. 00:06:19.655 --> 00:06:23.735 And with a tool like yours, it allows you the opportunity to try slightly 00:06:23.735 --> 00:06:27.245 different variations and compare them literally side by side so you 00:06:27.245 --> 00:06:29.135 can see how that looks different. 00:06:29.135 --> 00:06:32.105 I tell people this is like going to the dentist, and I do not mean 00:06:32.105 --> 00:06:34.415 offense to anybody who is a dentist. 00:06:34.415 --> 00:06:35.525 My uncle was a dentist. 00:06:35.715 --> 00:06:38.805 A lot of us don't like going to the dentist, but we're super glad we went. 00:06:38.865 --> 00:06:41.085 Some of what you're talking about is exactly that. 00:06:41.145 --> 00:06:44.235 Take the time to record yourself, watch that recording. 00:06:44.325 --> 00:06:47.895 As Joe said, it is a skill and it is a skill that you can develop. 00:06:47.895 --> 00:06:52.575 All athletes watch their videos, coaches use those videos to help the athletes. 00:06:52.575 --> 00:06:53.385 It's a great skill. 00:06:53.620 --> 00:06:56.260 The notion of focusing on showing really valuable. 00:06:56.260 --> 00:06:59.590 I think it's fascinating that over ninety percent of the folks that 00:06:59.590 --> 00:07:03.310 use your tool have something else on the screen besides just them. 00:07:03.490 --> 00:07:05.920 That shows you how much people are using it to show. 00:07:06.190 --> 00:07:07.540 Being concise and clear. 00:07:07.540 --> 00:07:10.240 I love that you have a feature, I wish we could build that 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:11.980 into everyday interaction. 00:07:12.220 --> 00:07:13.030 Wouldn't that be great? 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:14.680 And then finally, be who you are. 00:07:14.770 --> 00:07:15.400 Be authentic. 00:07:15.400 --> 00:07:19.000 You don't have to put filters on and be somebody or not when you do this. 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:20.320 That authenticity matters. 00:07:21.690 --> 00:07:25.320 Before we end, I'd like to ask you two questions that I'm asking everyone 00:07:25.320 --> 00:07:29.789 who's part of this miniseries, who is a communicator you admire and why? 00:07:30.030 --> 00:07:35.429 Joe Thomas: This is gonna be a basic answer in the sense that, look, Steve 00:07:35.429 --> 00:07:41.190 Jobs I, I think he is undeniable, but I wanted to call out not just his keynotes. 00:07:41.400 --> 00:07:45.539 I think that the recordings that I'd go back to on a very regular basis 00:07:45.539 --> 00:07:51.025 are the informal Q&As that he's done with Apple employees, where I find 00:07:51.025 --> 00:07:53.725 it really fascinating to study those. 00:07:53.785 --> 00:07:59.065 And Mike, the CEO of Atlassian does something very similar to Steve in 00:07:59.065 --> 00:08:03.085 our town halls where he'll pause and he'll really think about an 00:08:03.085 --> 00:08:08.215 answer for ten, fifteen seconds, which seems like an eternity, right? 00:08:08.395 --> 00:08:14.565 But that allows him to shape the communication in his head such that 00:08:14.565 --> 00:08:19.335 it is thoughtful, but it is also not skirting around what the real 00:08:19.335 --> 00:08:21.424 answer is, like the no BS answer. 00:08:21.465 --> 00:08:24.855 And so I feel like Steve Jobs was truly excellent at that. 00:08:25.155 --> 00:08:28.215 Many of us, when we think of Steve Jobs, we think of those big keynotes 00:08:28.215 --> 00:08:32.085 or the amazing address he gave at Stanford's graduation many years ago. 00:08:32.355 --> 00:08:35.475 But in fact, he was also pretty expert at the Q&A piece. 00:08:35.475 --> 00:08:39.554 And that's where I really think the rubber meets the road because you can prepare and 00:08:39.554 --> 00:08:43.720 practice and have a lot of help in those planned communications, but in those on 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:45.819 the spot moments, that's a lot harder. 00:08:46.180 --> 00:08:47.560 Second and final question. 00:08:47.650 --> 00:08:53.199 Beyond Loom your tool, what is one communication hack or tool or 00:08:53.199 --> 00:08:57.310 shortcut that you use personally to help you be more effective? 00:08:57.690 --> 00:09:02.670 So this one is probably more for managers and leaders, but when I 00:09:02.670 --> 00:09:07.440 actually adopted it, it was incredibly helpful for me in order to reduce my 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:09.390 anxiety in communicating with a team. 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:11.880 It's a framework called do, try, consider. 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:15.870 A lot of times when you're communicating things to your team, especially if 00:09:15.870 --> 00:09:21.570 you're in a position of authority, if you don't frame what your message is 00:09:21.570 --> 00:09:25.530 to them through, do, try, consider, they're all gonna take it as gospel. 00:09:25.560 --> 00:09:26.730 Like, we need to go off and do this. 00:09:27.569 --> 00:09:31.260 So when somebody finally introduced to me three years ago, this, do try, 00:09:31.260 --> 00:09:36.464 consider framework, it actually radically changed my ability to share feedback 00:09:36.615 --> 00:09:39.974 in a higher volume while also knowing that I trust that it's not gonna 00:09:39.974 --> 00:09:41.295 be misconstrued on the other side. 00:09:41.295 --> 00:09:45.375 So, do in this scenario, is used extremely rarely, at least for 00:09:45.375 --> 00:09:49.035 myself personally, which is I have extremely high conviction on this. 00:09:49.185 --> 00:09:51.464 I am asking you to do this, right? 00:09:51.464 --> 00:09:53.385 Like this, this isn't a try or consider. 00:09:53.385 --> 00:09:56.265 Try is if it's a design concept. 00:09:56.510 --> 00:09:59.630 I'm not saying that this is a thing that we're gonna ship, but I would love for 00:09:59.630 --> 00:10:04.370 you to experiment and tinker with the designs in this way, and then we can come 00:10:04.370 --> 00:10:05.900 back and have a conversation about it. 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.740 And then consider is used eighty to eighty-five percent of the time, which 00:10:09.740 --> 00:10:11.750 is just, hey, this is a random thought. 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:13.700 I think it's relevant, but I don't know. 00:10:13.730 --> 00:10:17.060 You're the owner of your work and you need to take it as like just another 00:10:17.060 --> 00:10:20.349 data point relative to all of the other things that you're considering. 00:10:20.650 --> 00:10:25.209 And so that was a huge communication hack for me as a leader, is making sure 00:10:25.209 --> 00:10:29.229 that I communicate whether this is a do, try, consider to make sure that something 00:10:29.229 --> 00:10:33.250 that was a consider wasn't taken and come back three months later and I'm 00:10:33.250 --> 00:10:35.155 like, oh no, I forgot I even said that. 00:10:35.660 --> 00:10:37.280 Matt Abrahams: I really appreciate not only you sharing that, 00:10:37.280 --> 00:10:39.140 but also teaching that to us. 00:10:39.350 --> 00:10:42.140 And you're right, many leaders when they will say things, people 00:10:42.140 --> 00:10:46.040 take it as a do, when in fact it was meant as a try or consider. 00:10:46.100 --> 00:10:50.360 It's the preamble that you give to your comment that helps people understand 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:52.580 this is a try, this is a consider. 00:10:52.850 --> 00:10:55.670 And the fact that we look at our thoughts as leaders and even 00:10:55.670 --> 00:10:59.960 colleagues, I would argue as either do, try, or consider, helps us to 00:10:59.960 --> 00:11:03.260 frame and makes the communication more clear for the recipient. 00:11:03.740 --> 00:11:04.490 Joe, thank you. 00:11:04.490 --> 00:11:07.130 You know, when I think about it, a lot of what you're about is helping 00:11:07.130 --> 00:11:09.080 make things clear and easier. 00:11:09.410 --> 00:11:11.060 We are a visual species. 00:11:11.060 --> 00:11:15.560 Seeing things helps us a lot and Loom, as a tool, is really 00:11:15.560 --> 00:11:16.580 helpful for us doing that. 00:11:16.580 --> 00:11:19.190 Thank you for your time and thank you for sharing your insights 00:11:19.190 --> 00:11:20.630 and background story of the tool. 00:11:20.970 --> 00:11:23.850 Joe Thomas: Matt, thank you for creating this podcast in the first place. 00:11:24.030 --> 00:11:26.219 So, so helpful, and thank you for having me on. 00:11:28.589 --> 00:11:30.030 Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining us for one of our 00:11:30.030 --> 00:11:34.110 communication tools episodes of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:37.920 Please be sure to listen to all of the episodes in this miniseries. 00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:41.310 We appreciate Prezis sponsorship of these episodes. 00:11:41.880 --> 00:11:47.160 This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. 00:11:47.460 --> 00:11:49.020 Our music is from Floyd Wonder. 00:11:49.079 --> 00:11:51.480 With special thanks to Podium Podcast Company. 00:11:51.870 --> 00:11:55.199 Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. 00:11:55.439 --> 00:11:57.480 Be sure to subscribe and rate us. 00:11:57.780 --> 00:12:03.310 Follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram, and check out fastersmarter.io 00:12:03.329 --> 00:12:07.615 for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. 00:12:08.005 --> 00:12:11.484 Please consider our premium offering for extended Deep Thinks episodes, 00:12:11.604 --> 00:12:17.074 Ask Matt Anythings, and much more at fastersmarter.io/premium.