S4 E28 Audio
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[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of Very Vehicular. As always, I'm your host Brian Scotto. Today's guest is one of the OGs in our space. He's quite possibly the first ever automotive influencer. That's right, we're talking about RJ De Vera, and this guy has consulted on everything from products to magazines.

Uh, his consulting even landed him this bit role in a small LA underground movie about, uh, street racing. Maybe you've seen it. Anyway, get locked in, 'cause this is over three hours of really great conversation.

RJ, welcome to the [00:01:00] show. Hey, thanks for having me. You ready for this one? I feel like I need to stretch. Yeah, like- 'Cause, 'cause I've listened and watched to a couple episodes, and I'm like, "Oh, okay- Yeah ... I'm gonna be there for a while." But we're gonna talk about all sorts of stuff. We're gonna hit all of it.

Yeah. All of it. Uh, the first question I wanna bring up, and I just wanna get right into this one- All right ... because you are, you are, like, an, a veteran in the space now. I know you still look 25. Oh, yeah. I hope it stays, by the way. But, yeah. Thank you, mom. But you, you are, yeah, um, by the way, I was gonna save this for later, but I spoke to, uh, Richard Chang this morning.

Okay. Oh, yeah. And he asked me if you could please lay out what your skincare regimen is- ... 'cause he doesn't understand how you still look the same age as when he first met you- Yeah ... whatever, 30-plus years ago. Yeah. I drink blood. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, I tell everyone I drink blood. Uh, I, I, I miss Rich. I haven't seen him in a minute, so.

Yeah, I've been talking to Rich about trying to do some projects with him. Oh, that's awesome. Um- He's such a good guy. And I, not to make this all about Rich to start, but I think Rich, like, Rich left the space so early that I think- He did ... a lot of his contributions are almost forgotten. For sure. Like, a- Yeah

including, like, helped put [00:02:00] drifting on the map in America- So many things ... with, like, that original Super Street story. What I loved about Rich when I met him was he wasn't from the space. Mm-hmm. And he brought a writing style that was so elevated. Yeah. I remember proofreading one of his first articles, and I went to Matt Pearson, the editor at that time.

Yep. I'm like, "This is too, this is too high- That's too, it's too good ... advanced for us," you know? Um, but he just changed kind of the feel of Super Street- Yeah ... um, because of his writing style and how inquisitive he was a, as a journalist that brought, I mean, Matt, of course, was, was the original ch- editor in chief, but he came from enthusiast books, and I was just a kid up from the street that was, you know, learned how to write and shoot to contribute.

And then, and then Rich came in, who was a true writer. Yeah. And he really elevated the game of the magazine, which, to your point, like, really helped blossom it into what it became. Yeah, I mean, think, he left Super Street and went to the New York Times. I know. And then 0-60. Yeah. So he just kept going up.

Yeah, exactly. 0-60 [00:03:00] though, when that, 'cause Nad's talked about it, I remember seeing it, and I was like, "This is the coolest thing ever." I appreciate that. Yeah, no, because it was, and you talked about Maxim in another podcast, it felt like Maxim and a car magazine- Hmm ... had come together, and I had not seen that.

Like, you know, there were the enthusiast books, and there, and then there were, like, the Motor Trends, even Car and- Mm-hmm ... Europe, all these, like, really, like, elevated, like, mainstream books. And 0-60 fit in this pop culture automotive thing, and that's, to me, and some of the writing that was in it, it was just like, this is, this is amazing.

Yeah. Thanks. It's always good when the show starts with compliments. Yeah. So I appreciate that. Yeah. So back to the first question. You have spent, you know, 30-plus years- Yeah ... in the business now. Yeah, three decades. Right? Yeah. Yeah, three full decades here. And, um- As someone who has seen that and seen it from so many different POVs, right?

You've seen it as an enthusiast, you've seen it from the media side, you've seen it from a product side in multiple different businesses. Yeah. And now [00:04:00] from the SEMA side, right, the organization that tries to make this all make sense for all of us. Sure. What is your health check on car culture right now?

Like, we... And I ask this to a lot of the, like, OGs, people who've been around for a while. Sure. Like, we've been through the ups and downs. Yeah. We've seen all this. How do you feel, like, car culture, the tuning community, aftermarket, how do you think everything's doing right now? Like, where, where do you see it?

Like, a- in this current moment, I, I feel like it's in a really great place, and, and I've seen it enough that it, it bobs and weaves and ebbs and flows in these, you know, peaks and valleys. It definitely feels like we're on this upswing, um, a- and whether we're at the peak or climbing to a peak, partly because there's just so much content and media around all forms of car culture.

I mean, look at Pikes Peak, you know, and, and how big that's gotten. 15, 20 years ago, you had to be really hardcore- Yep ... to know about Pikes Peak. And, and that's just one microcosm of everything that's getting talked about. F1, right, everyone has kind of [00:05:00] accepted and embraced it because of Drive to Survive, and so that helps.

You know, the Fast and Furious franchise, like, 10 movies, 25 years in the making. I feel like there's all these things. Gymkhana, right, how- however many you made. Like, all these things kind of came together and, and have been building the culture for I'd say the last 10 years, 'cause I feel like the last big dip was the recession in '09.

Yeah. And it really died down. Like, millennials didn't really care about cars. Everyone worried about putting food on the table, except for the true enthus- enthusiasts who were like- Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was the core core, yeah. Yeah, it was the core core. It wasn't this, like, this mainstream thing like that pop that happened when, when Fast 1 came out.

And I feel like now in, in 2026, it's like there's so much momentum. All the people that are creating content on YouTube, all the things that are happening in, in movies, all the fashion that you can buy at PacSun and Abercrombie and Tilly's and whatever, it's just coming together. So to me, the health check is it's in a [00:06:00] really good place.

You know- Yeah ... you look at the SEMA show post-pandemic. You know, to where it is now, we've grown almost back to 2019 levels. Yeah. I mean, we're really, really close. Uh, '24 actually, we had more exhibitors at the SEMA Show than we had ever had in the history of, of the event. Um, and so that's just a good temperature check for the industry.

But for me personally, going to car meets, meeting people, talking to people, going to Car Week, Festival of Speed, SEMA Show, whatever it is, the, the crowds are amazing. Like, everything's, like, sold out and, you know, wall-to-wall people. So to me, it's exciting. I, I love these moments, you know? I, so I agree with you, and I think- Yeah

especially the pop culture- Mm-hmm ... side is something I've never seen before. Yeah. And remember, I, I worked, before Zero60, I was in hip-hop- Yeah ... car culture. Yeah. So I worked for Ride Mag- Sure ... and that was a big boom. Sure. Right? We all remember- Yeah ... spinners and- Yeah, yeah ... big 24-inch chrome- Yeah, yeah ... wheels and dubs- Yeah.

What was- ... and so on and so on ... what was the show where everyone went, oh, Cribs? Oh, yeah, yeah, Cribs. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and then- And then Cars was always a big part of Cribs, right? And then Pimp My Ride- Pimp My Ride ... and I was a seeker out of [00:07:00] that. And then you had, like- Yeah ... the Funkmaster Flex Car Show- Yeah

and the Dub Car Show- Yeah ... and all those kind of things. But- I don't, I don't know if you know this, but I had a show on MTV. Did you know this? Yeah. What was it called again? Yeah, Trick It Out. Trick It Out, yeah. Yeah, yeah, two seasons of it. It, it aired the same time as Pimp My Ride. It was so- Yeah ... it was a lot of fun.

It was cheesy, cheesy as hell, but, uh- But fun to make ... but fun to make. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but that, like, the mid-aughts just really embraced cheesy. Yeah. Like, it was, cheese was just- Pe- people loved it ... there. Yeah. It was. People loved it. Yeah. I mean, think about how cheesy Pimp My Ride was. Yeah. But- Oh my God

and Monster Garage- Sure ... and all those shows. All the shows. But they were so entertaining at the time. They were. I think people watch it for the entertainment. Yeah. E- even when we made Trick It Out, it's like we had these themes, like alien theme or sports theme- Yeah ... and it was like- All right, RJ. You know, like, w- you know, the c- 'cause the c- the guys that we gave the cars to were actual shops.

Yeah. And they wanted to build, like, real cars. Real cars. And they were like, "We're gonna give you this space age theme." And they were like, "What? What, what do we do with that?" I'm like, "Figure it out. You know?" "It's for TV." Yeah. So, but- Yeah ... it was just [00:08:00] something that was huge at that moment, to your point. But, yeah, so I think, like, pop culture-wise, like, one, I don't think it's ever been, um, bigger, at least in my lifetime.

Sure. Right? Maybe it was bigger in the '50s, '60s, and the hot rod era. Yeah. But for my lifetime. But it also, I don't think, has ever been cooler, right? Mm. Like, you're seeing, like, Kim Kardashian is- Yeah ... dating L- Lewis Hamilton. Lewis Hamilton, yeah ... and, like, showing up at F1 races. Sure. Right? Like, and, like, these cool brands like Kith and everything are doing collabs- Sure

with, you know, with auto brands, right? Yeah. And, like, and, and l- like, what was sort of nuanced to us- Sure ... is now being put on T-shirts- Yeah ... and being sold at, you know, designer shops. So I think that part's cool. But when I mention this to some other people who maybe aren't seeing that as much, they say, "We have all this regulation.

We have all these problems." Mm-hmm. "We've got, you know, we've got people getting put in jail for tuning cars." Sure. "We've got EPA issues. We've got, you know, the obviously future of EV- Mm-hmm ... and what does that mean for [00:09:00] combustion?" So it's, like, I think depending on how you look at it, and then on top of that, especially living in California, we've got, like, all these laws now- Yeah

that we're, like, all of a sudden, like, CHP feels like they're targeting, you know, car enthusiasts, right? Yeah. So how, how do you see it from that side? And obviously, I know SEMA, you know, is, does put a lot of work into this as well. For sure. I mean, that's, thanks for the softball there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, thanks for the softball. We'll start with softballs, don't worry. Yeah. Uh, on the advocacy side, it's a very big area for SEMA. Uh, and not a lot of people know or realize that SEMA's a non-profit, and all the money that we make from the SEMA show, from the PRI show, from membership, all, all of that goes back into the industry.

Yep. A lot of it goes into government advocacy, um, whether it's, you know, our biggest things right now, we have something called Right to Race- Mm-hmm ... where in certain states we're trying to implement bills, uh, into law where if a neighborhood gets built around a racetrack- They don't get to use the nuisance- Yeah

uh, law to shut a racetrack down, which has happened a lot. Everywhere. Everywhere. My, my hometown [00:10:00] track- Yeah ... Englishtown got- So I think we've- ... shut down because of that ... implemented in, in a number of states now, in maybe up to 10, or, or getting close to 10, and we're, we're, you know, looking at it state by state.

Um, and then there's another thing that we're working, called Right to Modify, because there are a lot of technology things that are gonna be standardized in cars in 2029, 2030, a lot of the ADAS stuff. And Right to Modify is just a bill that continues to give access to aftermarket brands, to be able to access- Mm-hmm

all of these technologies, so that if you lift a vehicle, you lower it, you add a winch, whatever it is, you put a wrap on it, that you still have the man- the, the manufacturers, all these aftermarket manufacturers, still have access to recalibrate systems. Mm-hmm. 'Cause can you imagine if you don't have the access, right?

Oh, yeah. Like, how do you personalize your vehicles, how you lift your, your Jeep? How do you lower your- Right ... your Ferrari, the, the new one? If all of a sudden- Yeah ... the CAN bus is like, "Nope, this is wrong." Yeah. "And now the car won't start." Yeah. Or it [00:11:00] w- it won't let you move. Right. Um, so there's a lot of things on that front that SEMA's a part of.

I, I would say, when I was growing up in the '90s, it felt the same though. Yeah. Where there was, like, law enforcement that were like, you know... And you talked about in this, one, one of the podcasts, like, we all lowered our cars either by cutting springs- ... or, like, heating them up. Yeah. Right? And, and then you- That looks right.

And you would have the bounce, right? The Brooklyn bounce, you know? Um, and of course, if, if- We called it the Honda hop ... okay. Um, I don't know what we called it here, but it was just a thing. If you had a lowered- Yeah ... import, you were getting pulled over. Mm-hmm. Um, because there, in southern California, there was some correlation with, you know, like, um, im- import car culture and Asian gangs.

Mm-hmm. So they would use that as an excuse, and you would kinda get profiled, which really sucked. Oh, I bet. But it was going around, and, and there were, in certain cities, you know, law enforcement that would bring their stick out, and that was, like, their measurement of [00:12:00] whether you were too low or not. Yeah.

22 inches to your headlight. And then there, there's even some of them that would have you pop hood, and like, oh, you know, looking for nitrous or something like that. Yeah. Right? So I know that's happening now with, like, Montana plates and- Mm-hmm ... and things of that nature. So I don't feel it's that different.

I think people- If they didn't live in that area, they didn't know about it Right Are there more regulation coming now? Yeah, and we're, we're fighting lots of, um, like trail laws and clo- like r- um, closures to, like, trails. Um, so then you can't, you know, take your overlanding vehicle- Yep ... or your off-road vehicle.

So I think there's more of that in certain categories, but in terms of, like, car culture or street car culture, I feel like there was, it was there back then. It just depended on where you live. It's more pervasive now, I think, across the country. But I think the industry, like we as enthusiasts, like we live through all...

We just keep going. Yeah Right? You know, like- I mean, in New York, you're right. Like- Yeah ... I would get pulled over at least once a week. Yeah Like, in a slammed Golf- [00:13:00] Yeah ... with tinted windows. Yeah. Like, I would get pulled over all the time. Yeah Stripped, like pu- pulled out of the car. Sit on the curb. Sat on the curb.

Yeah. As they go through the car. Yeah. Like, have, watched them take my JLW4s, unscrew them- Yeah. ... out of the box to make sure there's not, like, drugs in the- Oh ... in the box, things like that. Did you- Yeah ... do you miss car audio? I do. I miss car audio. I want it to come back. I, I was- Yeah ... I, I miss it a lot because I don't think it, it wasn't something That I super loved compared to like other people, but it was like a must-have, right?

Like you had to have- One of the first things you put in the car ... you had to have a box. Yeah, yeah. Like, you had to have like at least- Yeah, the Rockford Fosgate amp ... yeah, Rockford Fosgate. Yeah. And then like I had Orions. Do you remember the Orion? Oh, yes, I remember Orion. Which were like really cool. That was like premium.

Yeah, and then later on I got- Yeah ... the Fosgates and they, because they came with the bridge. Okay, yep. So you could make them all look like one stack. Yes, one stack. Yeah, yeah. Which just looked, looked visually cool. Yeah. Um, and then I had like a mobile, uh, Sony Mobile ES mini display. Wow. Which was like- Yeah

so cool. Yeah, the mini display? Yeah, the mini dis- You were, you were on another level. You know, 'cause there was like the Alpine pull-out. That was cool. [00:14:00] And then- The Kenwood mask. The- That would flip black- The flip, yeah ... so that you couldn't tell that there was a head unit in it. Well, remember everyone would have to- Oh, yeah

bring their pullout, because if you put it under s- the, the seat- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... people would break your glass. Yeah, early you'd have the Benzie Box. Yes, yes. And you'd be walking around with that. And then, and then there was the face. But then later you had the, the, the detachable face. Yeah. And I, you know how many ti- you know how many like Wendy's I left the detachable face in?

Oh, really? You get back in the car and you're like, "Oh no, my face is there." Yeah. You go run back in. That was such a great era. It was. It really was. You know? Uh. I, I, the, I miss car culture, I miss magazine era car culture. Sure. Not because I, I'm, you know, I have this like love for the print era. Sure. Me too.

Which is true. Me too. Yeah. But I loved how slow the information got to us. So like- It was slow, yeah ... you would go to a show. Yeah. You would see someone with something new you've never seen before. Sure, sure. And you'd be like, commit it to memory. Yeah. 'Cause it wasn't like you had a cell phone in your pocket and you could take a photo of it.

No, it w- it wasn't so instant. No. You know? And, and when I started at Super Street, we were still shooting slide [00:15:00] film. Yeah. And, you know, I got taught to bracket probably like, you know, you would shoot things like six stops up, six stops down, just to make sure you got the shot. Especially Hot Import Nights, 'cause it was dark.

Oh, yeah. So you would shoot like 30-second exposures. You would double expose. Yeah. And you didn't know if you got the shot or not. For our younger audience. Yeah. Can you explain Hot Import Nights to them? Because I- Oh, yeah ... it was, Hot Import Nights was r- like I'm gonna say it now, and I probably- Sure ... back then I probably was like a little jaded about it, but it was cool.

It was cool. Like the first one I ever went to was really cool. There was this great progression on Let's just call it car shows. Yeah. A- and like car culture based car shows, because when I was growing up, they didn't exist. Um, in the early '90s, if you had a modified import, you went to a couple places. You either went to the street races- Yep

or a Test and Tune night at some eighth mile, uh, track. There was one in Long Beach called Terminal Island. Of course. You went to h- [00:16:00] house parties. Mm-hmm. And you drove up and down the street thinking you were cool, and you may have gone to a couple sales of like certain import shops. Oh, okay. So Car Mate was one big one in Glendale.

Yep. And they would have a yearly sale, and every crew came out. Yep. Flexing. We had the same thing. Right? Yeah, right. We had this place called Rapid Parts. Okay. And everybody, all the crews would come up. Yeah. Pop out, yeah. And like, you wouldn't buy anything. You would buy- You'd just show up ... you'd buy, uh, the, uh, the, uh, air freshener.

I know. The squash air freshener. The CX63 or whatever it's called. Man, squash. The squash, ooh. That's a good throwback. So then that, and then the first import car show happened, that I'm aware of, actually two in one year in '95. Import Showoff, which was held- Mm-hmm ... at the Pomona Fairplex, Ken Miyoshi and the team, and then Performance Motorsports Expo, Todd Kinetco- Mm-hmm

at the velodrome in, I think it's in somewhere in South Bay. Um, and then a few, and then that continued to evolve and got bigger and [00:17:00] bigger. It started to tour. 'Cause if I remember correctly, Import- It wasn't t- touring in- ... Showoff I think came to the East Coast eventually. Eventually. Yeah. But it was touring, like, LA, San Francisco- Mm-hmm

San Diego, and I think it was in '97 when Richard Goodwin and the guys started Hot Import Nights, and the first one was in Long Beach. Mm. And I remember going to it, like, real skeptical. Yeah. 'Cause I was a hater too. Like, "What is this?" And I didn't even bring a car, 'cause I was part of a car club that competed, that won a lot, but I just came with the Super Street guys to s- shoot it.

Yep. Um, Mike Munar, who was a, a, a classmate or, or a colleague of mine at, um, UCLA, he was kind of part of that group that was helping putting it together with Richard Goodwin and the team. And after seeing the first one, I was like, "This is pretty cool." Yeah. 'Cause it melded, like, this, like, club culture- Yep

um, with car culture, which felt like a natural fit. Yeah. 'Cause you, before that, you would go to these 18 and over- club events in LA, and there was just a huge contingent of people with modified [00:18:00] cars. And then people knew each other within LA car culture through a number of things, like you're part of a dance crew.

Oh, you're, you're RJ from, if I was part of a dance crew- Right ... from this dance crew, or you were part of a car crew, or you were a promoter of some sort, or, you know, you were an, uh, some sort of gang member. Right. And you kinda gotten known for that. I was kn- known as RJ with a white Integra GSR who had a girlfriend from this dance crew.

That was kind of- That was your- ... who I was, you know ... your calling sign, yeah. Yeah, so when Hot Import Nights came together, it became this mashup of a car show and really a nightclub. Yeah. Right? Because it was like- Yeah ... DJ-ing and break dancing- Yes ... were, like, a big part of that at the time. Yeah, so there were DJs that they brought in.

There was a big stage. Um, there were, you know, there were some, some places where you parked the car, you couldn't see the car- Yeah ... 'cause it wasn't lit up well. There were areas that were lit up well, and there were areas that weren't, so you, you were almost... It was like a rave. A lot of people called it a rave with cars in the way.

Yeah. Initially. That's kinda true. And I was like, [00:19:00] "Yeah." With cars in the way. Yeah. It was kinda what it was. But I also think, like, I think without understanding Hot Import Nights, it's kind of hard to understand what the cars looked like in the early 2000s. Mm. Because I think, I, I, I think about this now, and I, I don't know if at the time I was, like, cognitive of this, but you were really building these spectacles that stood out in a rave.

Yes. So, like, all of a sudden, things like underglow- Oh ... and, like, Lambo doors and- 10 TVs ... and a- exactly. Yeah Made a lot of sense- Sure ... because you were displaying your car inside of a club. Yeah. A- and, and there's definitely people that hated that. I was- Of course ... not the biggest fan of it. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause I came from an era where it was super clean and, you know, you, you slammed your car by Heating Springs and it- Yeah

but Running Sixteens, and it was kind of this OEM plus vibe 'cause you couldn't get a whole lot. Yeah. And then the car shows became such a, a, a way that people identify themselves, even myself, where you just, you just kept going like, "What can I do next? What can I do next?" Right. "What can I do next?" And then it becomes, like, a checkbox [00:20:00] thing, and you're like- And then you don't even drive the cars anymore.

Yeah. Well, now it's like- Yeah ... they're putting mirrors underneath the car because they wanna see if you've chrome-plated- Everything ... like, everything under the car. Yeah. And so there was- And it was, like, lo- almost like lowrider culture. It was. It was kind of interesting that it... 'Cause, you know, like, Sport Compact Car was the first, and, and Turbo Magazine felt like the two magazines that first featured import cars in their magazine.

Turbo did it in a way of, like, oh, this, this Honda is turbocharged. Mm-hmm. And they're running at Battle of the Imports. Right, or this, or this DSM's pretty fast. Yeah. You should watch out for it. Yeah, Gabe Buscher, right? Um, and then Sport Compact Car had more what they called Euro lowriders- Mm-hmm ... which were a bunch of Hondas that were wire-wheeled, you know, hydros.

Yep. Custom paint with the pin striping. And then there was a, a group of people, um, you know, a lot of us in Southern California that were buying Option magazines and tuning in the way you would see cars modified in a Japanese [00:21:00] magazine. Yeah. Right? Before JDM was JDM. There was- the, the term didn't exist.

So there was nothing that was covering that. And so there was, there was a moment where, like, it evolved and then Import Shop came, and then You, and then you were just like, "Okay, well, how do I take this thing that was the style in Japan, but make it Am- American?" Yeah. Right? Or, or youth car culture in America, and, and that's how it evolved to this thing at Hot Import Nights where you had 10 TVs, and different taillights, and colored interiors, and, and you didn't drive the car anymore.

No. Yeah. It was just like a moving statue at that point. No, it was a, a movable couch, right? But- A piece of art, let's call it ... I think while it was happening, like you- Yeah ... 'cause I was this Volkswagen guy- Sure ... and it was all about performance, and- Yeah ... you know, I wanted cars that drove well, and subtle, and things like that- Yeah

that that was a little, like was a, was a bridge too far. Yeah. But I couldn't not appreciate- Sure ... the spectacle. Yeah. Like, when Hot Import Nights came to town, I would go, and then I would have these, like, secret dreams of, like, maybe I build just a Hot Import Nights car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, like, there [00:22:00] w- Just for Hot Import Nights, yeah

yeah, just for Hot Import Nights. Like, not my regular car. Sure. You're like, you know, and with a House of Kolor paint job. Sure. And all these crazy things that- Yeah ... were coming into the culture from that. Because it wa- And one of the reasons why, too, and I think we forget about this, there were girls there.

There were a lot. Yeah, that was- There were a lot of girls at- Girls ... Hot Import Nights, which was something that was not normal for, like, an afternoon car show. Like- For sure. It w- it was kind of like Americana reinventing itself. Mm. And, uh, I first got, uh, noticed by a guy named Mark Vaughn from Auto Week.

He wrote a- Yeah, I didn't, I didn't know that. Yeah, he wrote an article called- I love Mark, by the way. Yeah, he's great. He's a great guy. Yeah. I love his humor. I saw him at L- I saw him at Luther Colt, like, two years ago. Yeah. It was so good to catch up with him. I haven't seen him in a long time. It's amazing that he's still- He's still doing it

still doing it, you know? Yeah. But he wrote a story in Auto Week called Passing the Flames. Mm. And it was this idea that there was a group of young people in Southern California reinventing the wheel without knowing that they were reinventing the wheel. It was basically hot rodding in the '90s, and it was [00:23:00] just like the '60s, except instead of muscle cars, it was all these Japanese imports.

And so I was one of three or four people talked about in that article. Um, and that's what it felt like it was, you know? It was, it was a bunch of young people reinventing the wheel, not really knowing it. So previously on this pod, I, I think I referenced you as, like, potentially the first, like, modern day automotive influencer.

Right? Um- In a way. Yeah. Yeah. A- and, and I thought about it a little bit more- Yeah, sure ... as I was pr- like, thinking about and preparing for today, that to us, you know, a pre-social media world- Sure ... you were that kid. Whether or not you knew it or not- Yeah ... you were. And you were definitely this guy who was, you know, an influencer because before, like, and I understand sort of your background because of Richard Chang- Sure

which was like, they connected to you because you knew what was cool. But f- more so than- That's kind. That's kind. I'd like to think so. Well, but that's what Richard told me. Yeah. Like, that's how he saw it. Sure. That you were, [00:24:00] like, this guy who had w- was around cool stuff- Sure ... was involved in cool stuff.

Yeah. Um, and because of that, they sort of, you know, gave you an editor at large position- That's, yeah ... and you came in because they knew you had, like, the finger on the pulse, which is what the modern-day sort of, you know- Yeah ... influencer- Yeah, yeah ... creator market, which is all we talk about now. Sure. And that has become the everything.

Sure. But, like, how do you ... You know, so how do you like your position as the first? You are the- Yeah, that's, that's- You are the genesis of this problem we have. That's very f- that's very flattering. It was pre-social media. Yeah. And I remember, um, when I saw it come back around. Mm. Um, mostly with TJ and Dustin, Chris Fix, even Emilia- Yeah

in the early days, so it gave me some deja vu moments when I saw them kinda up and coming, and of course I, when I was at Meguires, I had done some deals with- Yeah ... TJ and Dustin, and then ended up being Throttle and, and Fix. So but yeah, back in the time that I did it, I didn't know, because I was just so excited to, like, get [00:25:00] brands involved, and then I realized it was an opportunity for me to further what I wanted to do, much like content creators now use, you know, creating content, building an authority to get brand deals to do what they want.

Yeah. Like, like go racing or whatever. Yeah. Whatever it is. So for me, it was the same. I, you know, Matt Pearson, Super Street had, had this skyrocket rise at Peterson Publishing, and all of a sudden everyone was taking notice of, like, what, what are all these, what is this segment on, of kids building Hondas and Mitsubishis and Toyotas?

Matt was kind enough to be like, "I've got this guy on staff that's, like, been doing this for a while," which is crazy to say, 'cause this is the mid-'90s. But he's like, "He, he, he loves it. He knows all about it. He travels to Japan all the time. You should talk to him." So I started talking, I think Honda was one of the first people I talked to, and I went to a meeting at American Honda in Torrance.

I had size 36 khakis that I folded. Sick. And the bangs that were dyed. And I got pulled [00:26:00] over when I got out of Honda in my lowered Integra. But I was just shocked that someone from this corporate company that I looked up to wanted to talk to me, and I didn't know what they wanted. They just wanted to know, like, "What are you guys doing?"

Yeah. Like, "How, why is it lowered? What are these wheels?" And so that just became my MO of, like, me talking to people to, for me, I wanted to get them involved, and then it became, like, "Can you help us?" So, like, PepsiCo was one of the first non-endemic- Yeah ... that reached out and said, "Hey, we understand you helped with the Fast and Furious movie.

We're really interested in this culture. We have a new product coming out that we think makes sense for this demo of, like, young people who are passionate about cars and just culture and living life." It was called Pepsi Blue. Can you help us? And I was like, "Yeah, I can help you." Like, "What do you want to..."

"Well, we're looking at this thing called Hot Import Nights." "Oh, yeah, I've been there since the beginning, you know? And, like, like, uh, sign, sign me up as a consultant, I'll help you, and I'll give you a bunch of ideas." Right? So, so then that just built for a number of [00:27:00] years, and then ended up with, like, my own wheel line.

I did a deal with Valvoline, which is why, why I said a lot of, some of the stuff that I watch Dustin and TJ do- Mm-hmm ... is, is deja vu, 'cause I was the Valvoline guy before any of the social media. But you talked about it in this one podcast where for us, we had to do a deal with someone that had an outlet.

Yeah. A magazine, a television show, whatever it was. You had to have your media partner. You had to have your media partner. So I built all these cars, but I needed to make sure it would get featured. Luckily, I was editor at large at Super Street, so a lot of that was easy. Because if you didn't, then there was no value in it, because there was no media in it.

Mm. So it was a very interesting dynamic of this, I needed media, whether it was Super Street or Modified Mag or whatever, or, or GRIP Video. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Or the DVDs, versus what it became, right? And YouTube and what, what became the platform for people to create content and gain influence. So I had influence in a [00:28:00] very different way than what people have now, and then the reach is so different.

Like, my reach, you know, the, the highest circulation for Super Street was 350,000, right? And, and that's like nothing- But- ... in the, in the social media world now ... I know, but in the print era, that was massive. It was massive. It was huge. Yeah. And I don't think people realize, like, that was bigger than most magazines you think are big.

Sure. Like, that was outselling, like, well-known magazines at the time. Yeah. But that was the biggest. It wasn't as glo- Yes, I know, I know ... it wasn't as global, for sure. And I ended up in a bunch of Japanese magazines as well. Um, I ended up in CAR, which is probably, like, to me was like a, a I'm gonna pinch myself moment.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause I had, I got a feature in CAR Magazine, which was one of the most beautiful magazines. It was. Right? Yep. And they s- sent a photographer out to shoot me, and I couldn't still believe, and I still, I s- it's one of the magazines I'll keep forever. That's cool. Yeah. You know? Um, but yeah, it was, it was a moment where I really enjoyed life.

I enjoyed helping brands build their, their brand within a space that I really loved. I ended up helping make product, to [00:29:00] your point, and, and you know, die cast product. I was a, you know, even Fordsa Motorsports, I was a consultant that helped advise on what parts you could get to modify. I think it was Fordsa two or three.

Mm-hmm. Even, like, the bumpers and the specialty cars you could win. And then I had my own wheel line. So all of these things that I kind of see content creators do now, it does take me back. Yeah. Uh, and you know, I, I, uh, TJ's a good friend, so we, we have this running joke, and, and John Sabal as well. He's like, "Dude, you were the first influencer."

I'm like, "That's kind. I don't, I don't make the, the money-" I think, I, I- "... that some of the influencers do," but, yeah. No, the, the people who come first never do. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We're gonna take a quick break, come back. I wanna dig into kinda where that all took you. Oh, hey, what's up? Here we are with another story time interruption brought to you by my good friends at FCP Euro.

Look, if you've spent any time in the Euro scene, you have heard the term OEM Plus. Okay, for those of you who don't know, [00:30:00] OEM Plus is modifying your car with just OEM parts, usually taken from either a higher spec car or a newer car. To most people, it is the morally superior way to modify a car and still consider yourself a purist.

Anyway, back to what we were saying. The other day, driving the S8, it was brought to my attention that it needed new brakes, and I thought, "Oh, I probably need to fix these, but why fix these when you can upgrade these?" I found a bunch of big brake kits I could go buy, but then I realized that there was a really good OEM Plus option, which was upgrading to the next generation D3, either A8 or S8 brakes.

I started looking on Marketplace. That's usually where I go, and it occurred to me, you know what? FCP Euro probably has most of what I need, and they did. Head over to FCPeuro.com, filled the cart, and surprisingly, it was not that much more than buying the parts used. That's right, I was able to get brand-new parts to do this great OEM Plus upgrade, all from FCP Euro.

Brand new. If [00:31:00] you too wanna mod your car and you like the OEM Plus route, remember, you can go to FCP Euro and find a lot of those OEM Plus upgrades right there if you know what you're looking for. FCPeuro.com, for those of us who have an affliction for European cars. Um, I, I was hoping we could maybe go the full two and a half hours without mentioning Fast and Furious.

But you are so synonymous with it. Yeah. But I wanna start by saying that I don't find you synonymous with it. Okay. Because I knew of you before Fast and Furious. Sure. And when I saw you in Fast and Furious, I thought, "That's cool." Because I saw it as, like, you're giving a nod to us. For sure. You're giving a nod to all these people who read Super Street, who, like, are following- Yeah

what people are doing. And it would be the equivalent of the, if the new Fast and Furious put a TJ Hunt or an Adam LZ- Sure ... in the movie, right? Yeah. Where it's like, it's just a nod. It's that perfect cameo. But when I look at sort of this, I don't know, I don't wanna call it revisionist history, but I think sometimes a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on [00:32:00] your involvement- Sure

in Fast and Furious. Yeah, it's usually the first topic on a podcast. Right, not realizing- Yeah ... that, like, there was a decade of stuff before that- Yeah ... that got you to that point. Pretty much. And then there was all this other stuff that you did- Afterwards ... after it. Yeah. And in a way, and I, I... In a way, Fast and Furious, I think, had a bigger impact years later than it did immediately after.

Yes. Yeah. Right? It did. Like, we all remember- Yeah ... like, Fast and Furious 2 came out, and it felt like the series was over. Yes. And then Tokyo Drift came out. Yeah. And it was cool 'cause it was different- Right ... but it, like, was lacking. And then all of a sudden, like, Fast and Furious came back years later. Yes.

So if you're, you know, if you're probably in your, you know, maybe mid-30s or younger- Mm-hmm ... you probably have a different view of it than you and I do. So 'cause I, and I say that 'cause, like, I don't wanna spend too much time on Fast, 'cause everyone asks you Fast questions, but for you, putting that film together, like, what was your, like, POV coming in?

Obviously, you worked with, with Lieberman on it. Yeah. Um, did it seem- Before it came out, did it seem like it was gonna be something, like, [00:33:00] so impactful for the community? I thought it was gonna go straight to DVD. Yeah, same. I remember signing on, and I've talked about this in other po- pods, where Craig h- got hired.

Yeah. They wanted someone younger that, that knew the scene. They came to a car show, I met them, and I l- literally asked them, I was like, "Oh, you guys are making a movie? It's, like, a DVD movie?" 'Cause I, you know, DVDs were a thing then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're like, "No, RJ, we're gonna put this on, on the big screen."

I was like, in my head I was like, "Yeah, right." Um, and then we made the film, and no one cared about the film when we were making it. "Yeah, we'll send you parts. No, no problem." Right. You know, no one took it seriously. And then the film hit, right? And, and the initial box office number estimate was like, "Oh, you guys are gonna make 12 million."

It tested really well. They moved the p- the, when it would, uh, debut in theaters, and it made like 40 mil or something crazy, right? Yeah. Um, and the movie was, I think the budget was, like, 38 million or something. So then everybody was on Leno, Letterman, you [00:34:00] name it. Um, and it became this thing, and then years later it became a bigger thing.

For sure. Right? Um, so it wasn't... Y- you know, my experience was, and even when they offered me the role, and Paul, I really have to thank Paul for, for that, 'cause I wasn't even... I didn't even ask for a role. Mm. Even though I'd read the script and I knew there were Asian characters in it, and Paul was the one like, "You should be in this."

And I'm like, "Eh, I don't know. Like, there's a lot of things that you guys are asking us that you're not listening to us on. Like, I don't know. This, like, you know?" Right, 'cause you're worried that it's gonna come out and be bad. Yeah. Like, this, yeah. This like- Yeah ... this doesn't feel good, you know? And even when it did come out, I did w- It p- I got a lot of flack.

Of course you did. Yeah. 'Cause the movie's ridiculous. 'Cause it's like, "This is wrong." Yeah. It's like, "This is..." I'm like, "I know. I know." Yeah. "Yep, we couldn't reshoot that." Like, it's a movie, it's not a documentary, right? Yeah, yeah. So my POV was like, so my S2000 was, uh, rented to the, to the franchise for the first film.

It was the villain's car. They put Ninja Stars on it. We call them Snowflakes on Super Street. I was [00:35:00] like, I was like, "I am not dri-" Everyone else was like, "This is gonna be awesome. This is gonna be huge." I repainted that car before the movie came out and put different wheels on it, and everyone's like, "What are you doing?

This movie's gonna be huge." I'm like, "Nah, I don't wanna be affiliated with it." So the S2000, they a- Now it's sold for, like, a million dollars on Bring a Trailer. Yeah. So it's... Well, it's the pink one that's sitting at the Petersen. Oh, okay. 'Cause I sold it to them for the second movie. Mm-hmm. They didn't wanna rent anything.

So if you, if you pop the trunk, you'll see all four colors that the car was, 'cause I was so hellbent that I wasn't gonna have the car be affiliated with the film. Mm. Um, that's, that's how I looked at it. Yeah. That's a telling story, right? So, but they were like, "Can you bring the S2000?" I'm like, "It's not black anymore, and the stickers are gone."

They're like, "Well, what color is it?" I'm like, "It's blue and, and it's got different wheels." And they're like Well, just bring it anyway 'cause it's the car. I'm like, "Okay." Um, and I had just launched Wheel Line at the time- Yeah ... 'cause I was trying to g- move away, and I would leverage the movie 'cause I knew I could leverage it for certain reasons.

Of course. [00:36:00] But I was more focused about the next thing and not, like, my involvement in Fast. But, you know, if a Pepsi came in and said, "Hey, we know you worked on this film." I'm like, "Hell yes, I did." Yeah. "What can we do moving forward," right? And I built a bunch of Evos that we gave away that were Pepsi cars.

Um, but it was a, it was, to me it was just a tool. And even now, you know, we, we leverage it just to get me some interviews and whatever, and then we'll pivot to whatever is- Yeah ... important to the organization. But it is a huge part of my life, you know. It's one of the... You asked Emilia about her tipping point.

It's one of the tipping points, but- Oh, interesting ... but my story's like hers. It's, it's this progressive you parlay, you parlay, you build, you build, you parlay, you parlay and, and you just, you gain more experience. You try s- you do something different that adds to the resume. And now it's, you know, 30 years plus, so.

Yeah. What do you think was the tipping point for Fast and Furious? Because I don't know if the f- Mm. I, the first movie is my favorite- Sure ... because it's a nostalgia. Yeah. And I definitely went and saw it in the theater. Sure. And I drove [00:37:00] like a complete idiot leaving- Yeah ... the theater with all my friends.

Yeah. And, as we all did. Um, but then I, I think it kinda disappeared for me for years. And then all of a sudden it- 'Cause two, 'cause two was too video gamey, right? Yeah. I think there was so much... So first tipping point is number one. Right. Because- Of course ... people watched it six, seven times, which was crazy.

I probably have watched it 30, 40- Yeah. I mean, it, we, I had the DVD. Yeah. And if friends were over- Sure ... for, like, a barbecue at the house- Yeah, you just play it ... we would just put it on, and just, like, recite the lines. Yeah. Like, that and the movie Swingers. Yeah. Oh. Like, there was just a bunch of movies in that era where you, where you- I, I love Swingers, yeah

had to know all the lines. "He's all growns up. He's all growns up." Yeah. With the comb. Calm down, House of Pain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wait three days, always three days. Yeah, it's always three days, always three days. I mean, there, I think that was the first tipping point, and then the next one was four, even though three was building up to four.

No, that makes, that makes sense, yeah. Yeah. I think three is obviously sort of an unsung hero. Sure. Because- Had the best action, it, to my opinion ... it had the, the best action. Yeah. I mean, Rhys, Rhys [00:38:00] Millen- Yeah, yeah ... driving the car up the, when we- Yeah ... recreated that in a film that I did with Chris Forsberg back in the day.

But, like, driving up that section- Sure ... the Hawthorn, was it Hawthorne Mall, right? Was- Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, with the- You know, like- With the parking lot ... that was just really cool- Yeah ... and, like, really stood out. And, and I think that that film, um, was probably ahead of its time. Sure. Because drifting was still very new.

It was, I mean, in Japan it was one or two years old. Yeah. In the US it was literally just starting. Yeah. This was '03, right? Yeah. Before, I think Formula D- Right, I think it was '04 ... officially became a series in '04. Yeah. Um, that particular scene inspired me to create a show that I sold to MTV that never got made.

Oh, really? Yeah, it was called Drift or Die. Ooh, that's a good name. Yeah. And it was gonna be on MTV Too. It was gonna be shot in parking lots, where people would build drift cars and compete against each other. Oh, yeah. That's a good idea. Um, yeah. You should bring that back. I think you could make that show today.

Probably, huh? Yeah. Um, but MTV- And Skate or Die was, like, one of my favorite video games- Skate or Die ... as a kid. Well, that's where it came from. Yeah, yeah. You know? And I was, I mean, I think both of us were in to, into different cultures. Mm. And [00:39:00] skate culture was such a big part of a precursor to car, to our import car culture.

Yep. Right? And, and it, it, it kind of bobs and weaves. Well, you're like a, you're a big sneakerhead too, right? I am, yeah. Yeah. I, my, one of my first jobs was a, at Foot Locker. Oh, really? Uh, saving up f- um, earning money to buy parts for a car I didn't have, which I talk about a lot in other podcasts. But I fell in love with sneakers.

I was a big basketball fan, being an immigrant in the '80s and watching the Lakers and the Celtics go at it. Mm-hmm. And was around watching Jordan become Jordan. Yeah, yeah. Jumping from the free throw line, Jordan 3s, you know, uh, that whole craze of sneaker culture, like, really- Oh, yeah ... getting going. And all the Air Forces, and then the Dunk stuff.

So yeah, for me it's kind of intertwined. There's a thing about- customizing and personalizing your vehicle in the same way like you wear like sneakers to like- Yeah ... show your personality, or the car is also like an extension of your personality. One of the things we always said in New York City is because so few people have cars- Mm-hmm

[00:40:00] sneaker culture was so big in New York. Oh. And just fashion was big. Sure. Right? Like, I joke with people now, like I wear T-shirts and jeans and whatever. Yeah. When I was in New York and living there, like I paid a lot more attention- Yeah ... to what I was wearing because like people don't see your house. Yeah.

You live in an apartment. People don't see your car. Sure. So like the one thing you have to modify is- Yourself ... the way you look. Yeah. Right? So all of that stuff became really important. But there is a culture behind it, and I think- Mm-hmm ... that's the, the connection point. There's a culture behind car culture where people get together and there's this joint passion- Mm-hmm

for something, and, and streetwear, even before it was streetwear culture, skate culture had the same. 'Cause I was traveling to New York, I was traveling to Japan, buying all the Bape stuff and- Mm-hmm ... you know, um, this is pre-Supreme, but going to New York and, and finding some of the brands that were- Yeah ... in SoHo or wherever Um, but I think what drew all of us to sneaker culture or skate culture or car culture was that you found other [00:41:00] members of your tribe.

Yeah. Right? And you connected with them because there was this joint passion. So as, as a car enthusiast and even a sneaker enthusiast, I would travel the world, and if someone, if I met someone, even if they didn't speak the same language and it was very limited, if I knew they were into cars and/or sneakers and/or whatever, um, we would get along really well.

Yeah. And so it was kind of your way to, to be part of the tribe. Is this why you and Mark Arcenal were friends? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I met Mark, I think even before Illest. He was still working at Nike. Um, and it was a small world. I think, you know, within import car culture, there's a s- a smaller group of Asian- Right

culture that you, you in- inevitably would, would meet somebody. Jim La, I went to college with. Mm-hmm. Uh, Mike Munar, Mark Arcenal, all these guys that have, you know, done things, Ken Miyoshi, um, the guy that, that did Gymkhana, Ken- Oh, Ken, uh, Takahashi ... Takahashi. Yeah. Right? And even the guys that do Top Rank now were the [00:42:00] MotorX guys back then.

Yep. So, like, it was just a small world, and, and like, you would inevitably, like, cross paths. Yeah. You know? I remember when I first found Fatlace- Mm-hmm ... right? Yeah. It was like early when it was the blog. Sure. I remember thinking, like, "This is it." Yeah. Like, this feels... And I was, at that point I was already working in the print industry, but it was this perfect intersection- Yeah

of culture, all the things I liked about, you know, skate, sneaker culture- Mm-hmm ... fashion stuff, graffiti- Sure ... and car culture. Yeah. And I had never seen that before. And so Mark was this person who, when I eventually met, you know, a year or two later, I feel like we instantly bonded for that same reason.

Right. Because it was like, we didn't actually just have to talk about cars. Yeah. Like, we liked the same kind of music. Right. Like, we were both into hip hop- Right ... we were both into, like, breakdance, we were both- Yeah. Like, all these things just kind of, like, overlapped. Sure. And actually the thing we shared least in common were cars.

Cars, yeah. 'Cause I was on the Euro side of things- Sure ... and he was more on the Japanese side. Japanese side, yeah. Yeah. And Mark's one of those great examples of, [00:43:00] um, a little earlier. Oh, yeah. You know, Illest's being- Yeah ... and Fatlace being- Yeah ... really the first, some of the first brands that were bridging, you know, car culture- Oh, yeah

and fashion, right? Where it didn't really get into zoomies or any of those things up until you guys- Yeah ... kind of opened that door. It's a, and I've been trying to get Mark on the show for a while. Yeah. He's just never, he's like always just traveling- Yes ... doing baseball stuff with his kid. Know- knowing Mark too, he's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like- Yeah, yeah ... "When can we do this?" He's like, "Well, uh, you know, three months from now, six months from now." Exactly. Exactly. Um, but- Love you, Mark Yeah, yeah. Love you, Mark. Yeah, no, Mark's, Mark's great. Yeah. Um, and Mark was actually- I've never had a... 'Cause, you know, without question, they were our competitor when we launched Hoonigan.

Yes. Okay. Um, but I've never had such a friendly competitor. Competitor, yeah. 'Cause I would be able to call Mark and say, "Hey, man, I, I don't know how to do this." Sure. And he'd be like, "Oh, let me hook you up with my guy." Yeah, yeah. "Or let me, let me do this." That's very Mark too, right? And then on the flip- "Let me hook you up with my guy."

Yeah. Oh, he- Mark's got a guy [00:44:00] for everything, right? Everything, yeah. Um, and obviously we launched Hoonigan side by side with Illest- Right ... because we, we launched Hoonigan through the RWB project- Yeah ... right? In 2011. And that was the official launch for the brand. And at first I thought, "This is kind of weird."

Right. Like, we're launching against wi- Yeah ... alongside someone else who's very similar with what it was. But it was a really good friendship in the early days. We'd go to, like, Agenda together. Right. And we'd be the only two car brands at Agenda. Right, yeah. And, you know, and but, and then eventually then we went to Zumiez first, and Mark, you know, called me.

Sure. And was like, "Hey, what should I know about Zumiez?" Yeah. And I was like, it was a nice relationship to have- Sure ... with someone where we were competitive, but we both wanted each other to succeed. To succeed. And then oddly- Yeah ... at the end, he ended up working at Hoonigan, then I left and he stayed at Hoonigan.

Yeah. So funny how the world spins like that. Small, small world, yeah. Yeah, so. Yeah. It's, I, I think that's a great sign of one of the things that powers the industry is this collaboration culture. Mm-hmm. And you see it now. One of the things I love about mostly the aftermarket is people do wanna see s- each other [00:45:00] succeed.

Mm-hmm. Many times. Not always. Yeah. There's people that hate each other, for sure, but there's also a lot of people that are willing to help each other. I think the drift scene is a great example of that, in early days of drifting, I think even now. Like, lots of- People that would compete against each other, if something broke- Yeah

and they didn't have it, it's like, "Hey, take my axle." Mm-hmm. 'Cause I, I, I don't feel good winning if, if you're not on the line, and I didn't beat you, right? Yeah. Import drag racing was the same. Yeah. Even though there was this really intense rivalry between all the crews, you know, Cyber and Redline- Oh, yeah

Precision Power, and everyone that was in it, um, they still wanted to see, like... They still wanted to line up next to the, their, their rival- Yeah ... and beat them, like, heads up, and not because, like, some part broke. And so I, I love that about our industry, this, this idea that, you know, you wanna contribute and help s- watch others grow, even if you're not growing, you know?

Um, for me, it's like my biggest, like, feels like my passion point, my calling, my purpose, whatever you [00:46:00] wanna call it. Yeah. But, you know. Question for you. Mm-hmm. When you, um, when... Like, looking back at it now, right? And I, and I realize it was all a blur when it was happening, but you've got, you know, three decades of re- you know- Yeah

retrospective look at it. What do you think it was about what you were doing at the time that opened up this world for you? Right? That, like, got the guys at- Sure ... Super Street to take notice. Yeah. Got these other brands to take notice. And I'm talking before- Before Fast ... before Fast. Yeah. Because after Fast, it makes sense.

Sure. But before that, what do you think it was that you were doing that got you to do that? I think what most people gravitated to was just the enthusiasm that I had. Mm-hmm. And my desire to connect people. Like, "Oh, you're doing this? You should meet this person." Like, let me be a bridge to that. Um, and I was just a young kid that wanted more people to be involved, because in my eyes, the more people got involved, the more corporations got involved, the more credibility the space had.[00:47:00] 

Mm-hmm. Because I came... You know, being an immigrant to the US, a lot of what you did was just fight to have credibility. Fight, you were fighting to be seen, 'cause you were, you were, you were a minority. Yeah. And, and import car culture was the minority within the larger car culture world, and, you know, driving, you know, a Honda or anything front-wheel drive, Euro or Honda, you got looked at like, yeah, that-

that's not, that's not, that's not hot rodding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it- and we didn't see it as that. We didn't want it to be called hot rodding. Yeah. We just, we were modifying our cars, right? And we were personalizing it. And so I had- I threw so much energy not knowing it just because I wanted it, it to succeed.

You know? I, the Import Showoff guys, I had a booth at the first one. I, I met Ken, and I was like, "Let me help. I know some guys at Honda. Let me introduce those guys to- 'cause they need to see what you're doing." I met Rodney, who did TMR, Toy Machine Racing. Oh, wow. Love Rodney. Right? Yeah. They're like, "Hey, you got great design skills."

He was at Image Dynamics at the time. [00:48:00] "I've got a buddy who's throwing car shows who could use your talent." Yeah. So we would sit in his office till, like, 2:00 in the morning designing Import Showoff flyers, 'cause it took two hours to save the file, 'cause it was, like, 50 layers, and it was, like, Apple II or whatever.

The Apple II. You know? Yeah, and even when I met the Super Street guys, they're like, they're like, "Tell us about, you know, what you guys are doing and, and why these cars look so different from the Euro lowriders. Oh, let me introduce you to... You guys gotta go to Battle of the Imports. Like, have you heard of Tokyo Auto Salon?

Like- Mm-hmm ... you need to be there." So I was such a sponge. John Sabala talked, uh, I, and I talk about this all the time, we're both sponges, and we love just absorbing. Mm. But unlike John, I was also, like, a big, like, let me share what I've learned. Yeah. Um, you know, and not in the content creator space- Yeah

'cause we didn't have any of that. It was just person to person. So I was sh- I was taking meetings, I was taking people out to lunch, you know, as much as I could. Anybody that was willing to listen, I was gonna go on a [00:49:00] tangent on how great this movement was, how you needed to be involved, whether you were someone doing a car show, whether you were making a product, whether you, you were a brand trying to do something, whether you were creating media.

Mm-hmm. Um, whether it was a print mag and, and TMR to Super Street to 360 Video or Grip Video. Um, I was like all day, every day, and I think that's why what people were like, "Oh, man, this, this kid's, like, serious. Like, he's in it. Like, we should, we should just do something with him." You know? Yeah. "Let's partner with him.

Let's see what we can do together, or who he knows that he can connect us to." And I didn't have this thing where, like, I need a, I need to, like, profit from someone else. Yeah. I just wanted to bridge people and, like, "Oh, you guys are doing that? Awesome. I'm, I'm onto the next thing." Of course, there's things that I worked on for myself personally that I would try to, like, wedge in if it made sense, but if it didn't, I didn't care.

Yeah. You know? So I think that's what drew people. It's interesting as I, I think about it now from my, you know, my perspective or my POV as this, like, kid in New York City- Mm-hmm ... who ran a [00:50:00] Volkswagen car club- Yeah ... and was throwing small events- Sure ... and doing all that, not in the industry. Um, I was r- I was so aware of who you were because I read Super Street, right?

Mm-hmm. And even though I wasn't... I didn't have a Honda- Right ... and wasn't into that, I, I still saw that as a more adjacent market to what I was into- Sure ... because those were the people that I was around in New York City. Right. Like, if we were going out and cruising DPA or Francis Lewis Boulevard or something like that, or going to the street races, we were mingling with, like, all of the car- all the Japanese car kids.

Sure. We weren't talking to the hot rod dudes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, they weren't having us, right? So that was that group, and I had friends who had, you know, DSM cars that ran nine seconds- Right ... and things like that in that era. You were, um- You were someone who was easy to root for. Like, I remember being excited for you- Mm-hmm

when you were in Fast, not hating on you. Sure. And I don't know what, and I think it's just, like, it was really probably the way Super Street presented you. Right. Because realize it's not like today. It's not like- Yeah ... I'm following you on Instagram. Yeah. I have a [00:51:00] parasocial relationship. Sure. It's like I see you maybe once every two months.

I see some of the builds you do. Sure. I read some of the stuff you write about. I think Super Street was one of the first magazines, other than Max Power, that took the editorial staff- And put 'em in it ... and, and put them in it. Yeah. And in a way, that actually set the standard for what we did at Hoonigan.

Sure. Oh, it did. Right? Wow. Because think about it. At Hoonigan- Oh, it was about the characters. It, it was the char- Yeah ... eventually. In the beginning- Sure ... it was about the drivers, but eventually it became about Hirsch- Sure ... and Vinny and Zac- Oh, that's- ... all these guys ... I've not- And that was- ... put that parallel together

yeah, and I, I don't think I did at the time, but when I look back at it- Sure ... it's what I loved about Super Street- Right ... because I felt like I knew you guys. Yeah. Like, I felt like I knew Nads. I felt like I knew you. Sure. Right? Like, um, I didn't actually feel like I kn- knew Richard Chang, 'cause I think he was very much in the background- He was a little bit more in the background

till I, till I met him. Yeah. But the guys who were in the front and doing stuff, like, you know, that was... And you were very much front and center, and I- For sure I, I, I think that, that you, like I said, you were someone that, like, people wanted to root for. And so, and that kinda goes back to, like, [00:52:00] the OG influencer.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause in many ways, that is what influence is. Yeah. Like, you want them to do well, right? Well, yeah, yeah. If you, if you talk to TJ, you talk to Emil, you talk to Cletus, like whoever it is in the space- Sure ... their audience wants them to win. To do well. Yeah. Right? And that was it. So here's one for you.

You are 18 again- Okay ... but it is 2026. Wow. How do you navigate now? Like, like how does RJ de Vera build- Yeah ... the world today? Like, what would you do? Would you, you know- It's so different. Yeah. I mean, but the... It's so different, but the foundations are the same. Mm-hmm. Because I would just use the platforms of today and just do what I did back then.

I think in terms of potential, it's so much greater today, so much more difficult, because there's so much noise and content- Right ... everywhere. But if you can, you know, start to stand out and, and have your own point of view that, that people support, the world is your oyster as a term is, like, the world is your oyster.

[00:53:00] In my day it was like North America was my oyster. Right. Right? And really, it started as LA was my oyster, and then North America. And then it somewhat got global, but nowhere near the reach that it, that you could have right now. Right. So I think me in 2026 would take the same foundational approach, but then use the platforms of today.

Yeah. And I think the potential would be so much greater. And I think one of the- Yeah ... really unique things- Yeah ... about today versus where both you and I were was regionally, like geographics was such an important part of your success. If you didn't live here, you wouldn't have met the people you met- No, not at all

and you wouldn't have done the thing you've done. Yeah. Where you've got guys like, you know, Westen Champlin, who's- Yeah ... in the middle of the country and- Sure ... has built an entire- Sure ... thing around himself- About him, yeah ... because of the non-gatekeeping aspect of- Yeah ... of YouTube and stuff like that. Well, it's just so much more free and open.

Yeah. And, you know, content's everywhere. There, there isn't these... You talked about how, like, if you were in the magazine world, you know, you had to know the magazine mafia, right? [00:54:00] Yeah. To, to get on the newsstand. Yeah. And it was something that got talked about at Petersen- Yep ... when I was there, on how they had to buy circulation and how- Mm

you have to buy to get on the newsstand. And it's just such a different world. But, you know, I'm gonna come back to this idea of, like, making, um, content about the people. I think it's an age-old story that we just implemented at Super Street, and, and kudos to Matt Pearson, because there were no enthusiast books that really featured the individuals.

Mm-hmm. And Matt was- Pr- pretty much a pioneer in that space of like, "No, we're gonna talk about the different editors, what you drive, the stupid things that we do." Um, and then it just got carried on and, and of course Nads took it to another level when he took over after Rich. Um, and but it's, as you say that and you said that, like yeah, I mean, I think most people are drawn to the people and the story more than the content or the build or any of that.

I mean, of course that's a piece of it, but when you become larger, that's what keeps people around. 'Cause you can have, like, one build and then get [00:55:00] forgotten about, and then that's it, right? But if, if the people love who you are and they're rooting for you, they're gonna continue to tune in, whatever you're doing, so.

No, I agree. Yeah. All right, speaking of tuning in, we're gonna, uh, tune out quick for a quick little break and we'll come right back. Be honest, we all do it. You fire up an incognito tab, and you hit up the configurator page of your favorite automaker to build out that dream spec you're never gonna buy.

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I even have a custom set in my Land Rover Discovery, and yes, that bloody thing does finally run. Anyway, check them out, kwsuspensions.com. What do you, what'd you drive here today? Uh, my Alpina. Ooh. Yeah, I have a B6 Alpina, um- I had an Accord that was my daily, like right before pandemic Like a new Accord or like an old- It was a new Accord.

It was like a two liter, but- Okay ... I, I got into Euros, and you get into Euros, you get used- Yeah ... to the luxury, right? You've had a lot of BMWs. You had a couple 911s, right? Uh, not too many. I mean, I had... I, I do this thing where I build cars with friends. Oh. So they were never personally mine, but I get the keys to them, and I drive them- Right

a lot, so... But I've jumped all over the map, all sorts of Japanese cars. I think my first Euro was a, a CLS Mercedes- Okay ... that I slammed with all the Brabus Rocket parts. Oh, yeah. Which was, I just love. The Platinum Motorsports guys built that one. And then I went to- When was that? Like 2007? 2006. 200... Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I'd built a couple E46, uh, M3s for some, some people, um, that [00:58:00] looked like the CSL with the- Yep ... the active auto work supercharger and all that stuff. But that, the CLS was my first personal- Yeah ... uh, Euro car, and then I kind of fell into, like I had a, a FO1 BMW short wheel base 7 Series that I slammed.

Then I had a Maserati GT MC that I loved. Mm. One of the best sounding cars ever. Mm-hmm. Big and heavy, though. Not, not the funnest to drive. And then I had my SLS. I remember that. The gullwing. Yep. Um, and then at some point, I, when I got the SLS, I was like, "Okay, I can't drive this every day," 'cause everything else I drove every day.

Yeah. And so I then I ended up, uh, my mom had a Jetta wagon, so I drove that for a while. And then I had an Audi A6. And then I just kept telling people, like, "This stuff doesn't matter." But I felt like I w- I wasn't living that. Right. Right? So I was like, "Oh, this stuff doesn't matter. It's stuff." And it's a way that I try to keep myself grounded because I love too many things.

Like, I'm sure you and many people in this space are. You just collect too many things, and you have too many things- There you go ... you don't need. Um, and so I was like, "I'm gonna, [00:59:00] I'm gonna..." When, uh, the, uh, the Audi lease was over, I'm like, "I'm gonna get something, like, real practical." Mm-hmm. And my friends were like, "BS.

You can't do that. You can't go back." I'm like, "What's wrong with a new Honda? I came from Hondas." And they're like, "Can't see it." So I was like, "Nah, screw this." So I bought an Accord, and I drove that for six or seven years. And then my nephew, uh, my oldest nephew- That is such a transition from the SLS. Yeah.

'Cause I remember when you had that, I was like, "Flashy, AJ." Yeah, yeah. Well, the gull- I love gullwings. Of course. Who doesn't? Like the '55 gullwing is like... And it was definitely, like, very theatrical- Oh, yeah ... when you popped the door open. And, and one of the, I have a great story. I, I, I, I buy the car. I didn't have...

I had sold everything. It's the only car that I had. I thought I would drive it daily, which was crazy. So I went to Target at 10:00 PM at night, like, in h- in Irvine, where I live. And I remember parking close to the entrance 'cause there's nobody there. So I popped the door open, and there's this couple walking in, and they look over.

And it's not the nod of, like, "Cool car." Yeah. It's like, "Okay, douchebag." [01:00:00] And I was like, "Oh, yeah, maybe I can't drive this car every day." And it was, it, it was before the suspension. It was just like you got either the normal or track suspension. Mm-hmm. And the guy that bought it before me had the track suspension.

It was super stiff. So then I got into, you know, having a daily next to the, to whatever the, the collector car was, and then at some point, it was like I wanted to call myself out on my own BS. Like, can you drive something that's just- Mm-hmm ... normal and plain? Which I got the Accord. And then I ... My oldest nephew needed a new car, so I sold it to my brother for cheap, and I started looking for a new daily.

I was like, "Ah, it'd be nice to get something, like, more luxury again." Mm-hmm. 'Cause it was, like, six years in, right? And it just progressively got worse, and I don't know. Like, people are like, "Oh, daily, Alpina. All right." You know? Like, gonna get something, like, not- Yeah ... not so crazy. And I'm like, "Well, I ran into this car.

It's six years old. It had 40, 4,800 miles." Mm-hmm. How do you pass that up? No, that's a good deal. How do you pass? And it tanks in value because it's an Alpina. Yeah. No one really knows about it [01:01:00] unless you're a car fan. So yeah, I love it. It's been great. Yeah. I see you got TEs on it. It's, yeah. Which is- Which a lot of people either love or hate.

No, I love it. Yeah. It's great. Yeah. I mean, TEs kind of w- Vinny and Achra and I talk about this all the time. Like, they kind of- Ev- ... work on everything ... everything. Um- But being that- Yeah ... it's an Alpina, and everyone knows the Alpina wheels- Right ... which I love as well, but this one has, like, the, the chestnut brown interior, and to me- That works

like, bronze and green just, like, I'm like, "Ah, y- I gotta buy it." And the Supra being a 51120. Mm-hmm. And, and Volk Racing making a bunch of stuff for the Supra, you just try to match- Mm-hmm ... the right size and offset 'cause, you know, for a long time, they didn't make TEs in 20s. Yeah. And this car came with 20s, and it f- looks right on 20s, so.

For a long time, it was really hard to get TEs in anything out of the traditional si- like, Japanese sizing. Yeah. 'Cause when we- Yeah, 4 by 1143, right? Yeah ... the first couple of cars, uh, Gymkhana cars that Ken had- Sure ... I put TEs on. He's on it, yeah. And I remember, um, working with Eddie on it and just trying to be like- [01:02:00] Yeah

be like, "Hey, what can we find?" Sure. Like, "What do you have?" Or, "Can we have it redrilled?" Um- Yeah ... because it was, like, 5 by 112. Yeah. And all this weird stuff. Yeah. Yeah, so. And I love green. What about you? Like, what's, uh ... Do you have, like, 12 cars right now or something? Wow, that's, that's cute. Um, I think, I don't even know where I'm at right now.

Yeah? I think it's, like, 26 or 28. Oh, wow. It's double or triple that. Um, yeah, but so- Why, why- Why don't you get rid- 'Cause I know Adam, I heard Adam LZ has the same thing where he just doesn't get rid of stuff No, he has like a hun- he has like 100 cars, that was insane Jesus. And then we had JP Performance- Yeah

on last week or two weeks ago, and he said he has like 100 and- Wow ... like 60 cars or something. Um- But even 26, like what's the- Yeah, okay ... versus like, "I'm gonna get rid of stuff and get something different," or? Yeah, sure. I, um, well, first, i- to kind of, you know, your idea of like, "I need to have this normal car"- Sure

I'm actually going into that mode right now. Okay. So two years ago, I had this, like daily kinda commuter car. Okay. Right. It was an Audi A1, which is still weird- Yeah ... 'cause they don't sell them here in the [01:03:00] US. Yeah, yeah. But it was a regular car, and it was new- Right ... and it had Bluetooth and things like that, right?

But I found, like, I just drove it every day. Okay. And I didn't drive any of my other cars. Okay. And- 'Cause it's easy, right? Right. Yeah. It's easy. It's like just outside. Sure. I don't mind parking it anywhere. Yeah. Like, it's- it's just easy. Yeah. That was my Accord, for sure. And, and I would just always go to it.

Yeah. Always go to it. And then all of a sudden, like eight months passed by, and you're like, "Man, I have like barely driven any of my fun cars." Mm-hmm, yep. And I started to realize I was, like, not enjoying the hobby as much- Okay ... and it felt more and more like work. Sure. And I'm sure you know this. Yeah. You work in this business.

Yeah. Some days are really fun. Sure. And some days are just work. Yeah. And I was having more and more of the work days, so I sold it, and I was like, "Okay, that's it. I'm only gonna have cool cars." Okay. So for the past year and a half- Okay ... I've only had, like, quote-unquote cool cars- Right ... or cars that I think are cool, which means I don't own anything made after 2002.

Wow. Which- Realize, like- Yeah ... as far as the rules go, that means- Sure ... everything I own is a classic- Yeah ... 'cause 25 years or older- Yeah ... is a classic. Yeah. So I'm in that space, and I mostly drive a car from the [01:04:00] '70s. Okay. So I drive my yellow Rabbit all- Okay ... I mean, my green Rabbit all the time, and then I've got, like, a, a '90s, uh, RS2 that I drive.

Okay. Um, and with a six-year-old- Uh-huh ... sometimes you realize, like, this is- Yeah ... a very irresponsible decision. Sure. Because, like, cars break. Right. Yeah, yeah. And you have to, like, get your kid somewhere. Sure. Or you're supposed to pick your kid up from school- Yeah ... and, like, you know, your Brembo brake has decided to-

separate itself from the carrier. Right. Right? Right, right. Yeah. You're on the side of the road. Like, I've had- Waiting for AAA. AAA literally investigated me last year- Uh-huh ... 'cause I had too many tows. Oh, wow. And- And you have the highest membership, I'm sure ... yeah, and I have, of course. I've got, like- Yeah ... the premium whatever.

Yeah. And it's like, "No, it's like, I'm not... Like, I'm not defrauding you." Sure. "I just have a lot of cars-" Yeah "... that are all unreliable." Right. Um, so I actually just recently j- like, I just paid for it yesterday. I picked up a D4, um, Audi S8. Oh, wow. That's just, like, a stock- Yeah ... like, but, like, it was l- super low miles.

Okay. So it's a 2013, but it only had 29,000 miles on it. Okay. And it was a really good price. That's a [01:05:00] new car for you? And that's gonna be, like, my newest car right now. Yeah. I, I have a problem with new cars. I don't like a lot of... I don't like the big screens. Okay. I don't like a lot of the new technology.

Kind of in, kind of in the same. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, to me, I feel like the cutoff of, like- What's your cutoff? Yeah. For, like, a, for a, like, an enthusiast car, it seems to be, like, 2006, 2008. Okay. What? And, and- Like, probably when they made- Yeah ... the last Evo IX- Okay ... is kind of a good cutoff for me. The cutoff. Um- And then for the new cars, 2013 or something?

And then I say for, like, a newer car where I don't feel like it's got too many bells and whistles- Sure ... like, just the right amount- Sure ... uh, is probably, yeah, like, 2015 or something like that. Okay. To me- Like, like, for example, I like adaptive cruise control. Sure. But I don't like a car that- Everything

steers me back into the lane. Yeah, yeah. Right? Like, there's a certain level- It's funny ... where it just- That interference ... it went past my Overton- Yeah ... window of technology. Yeah. I feel like 2019 for me is that- Okay ... sweet spot because a lot of stuff after '19 went to digital gauges, and that's one of my- Yeah.

Like, the, the B6 versus the [01:06:00] B8 Alpina, the B6 still has- Yeah, that's huge ... you know, regular gauges- Yeah ... that are blue- Yep ... uh, which is super rad, right? But then you get in the, the BA, which is the kind of the next generation after, it's all digital. Yeah. And granted, Alpina tune- like modified it so the, the tach is blue digitally, but it's not the same feeling.

Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah. There's just- And then all the ADAS stuff too. What- Yeah ... e- explain to the audience all the ADAS stuff, 'cause that is something that's coming into- Um, I forget what the acronym is. Advanced Dynamics something systems, adaptive systems or something. But it's basically all the stuff that controls, um, if a car...

If there's a car in front of you, and you, and, and- Right ... it brakes for safety, or lane departure, or any of these sensors that keep you safe. Mm-hmm. That's all the ADAS systems. And, and you watch all these reviews where everyone gets in a sports car, and they're like, "I gotta turn everything off- Mm-hmm ... every time I fire it up."

Yep. And that's just part of, you know, uh, regulation. Yeah, yeah. Right? And I feel like 2019 was about the [01:07:00] end- Before all of those things just started to be integrated, even before the regulation- Mm-hmm ... of like, it's a safety standard, we're gonna put it in. Um, like the Alpina has the one where it kind of shakes if you're- Right

if you hit this edge of lane. And you can turn it off, but the new cars, like everything's on. Oh, yeah. And you gotta turn it off one by one, and it's in a menu and, and so- And they get really aggressive. Yeah, they get really aggressive- Yeah ... where like, if, if you're on cruise control, it'll completely slow you down or whatever the case may be.

So a lot of the ADAS systems are those sensors- Mm-hmm ... that keep you safe. But also, you know, if you wanna turn them off, it's, it's a chore- Yeah ... 'cause you have to do it every time you fire. You c- it's not like you change the setting and it stays. Oh, yeah. I think 2019 was kind of that last year where you can turn things off and it will just remember that.

Um, and some manufacturers are later, like, you know, um, Aston Martin owner, mine's a '23, and I think in '25 that started. Mm-hmm. So I have the, kind of the last generation, like a 2019, in the BMW world [01:08:00] before all of that became the norm. Yeah. So to me, that's kind of like a sweet spot. You still get the ma- the map, your iPhone still connects with it, but you're not having to turn all these systems off, and, you know, and it's, it's not...

If you think about it, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah, but it's- But it's a pain in the ass. It's funny, though, I, I, I am so analog in the cars- Yeah, sure ... that I drive that I'll fly somewhere and rent a car- Mm-hmm ... and get into, like, the most basic rental car at Hertz or whatever- Mm-hmm ... and be like, "What is all these gadgets?"

Yes. Like, why, how do- Yeah ... what is all of this doing? Yeah, yeah. Because now I'm not a journalist anymore, I don't drive as many- Sure ... new cars, and sometimes I'll just get into a new car and I'm like, "This is too much." Yeah. Like, there's just too much going on. Recently, a few months back, I did a film with, um, Boston Legacy Football Club, and we had Leah Block driving- Okay

a Hyundai IONIQ 5 N. Okay. Which, like, as far as EVs go- Yeah ... I really think the thing's cool. Yeah. It's really cool. I've heard really g- I've sat in one. But we mounted- Yeah ... a camera to it. Uh-huh. So we mounted a moto crane- Sure ... camera arm to it, and it, the whole day we [01:09:00] were having problems with it. Right.

And then eventually we realized it was because- There was a sensor ... all the sensors thought we were getting into a car crash constantly. Oh, yeah, constantly. Yeah. Because it kept seeing this thing, which was the camera- Sure ... moving around the car. Sure. 'Cause the whole conceit was like, we're gonna put Leah in the camera car and have her drive the camera car- Ah

and drift the camera car- Sure ... as it was filming. And we just struggled the whole day. Yeah, yeah. And eventually I called one of the guys, one of the engineers over at Hyundai. Sure. He's like, "Oh, maybe it's this." Sure. And sure enough, like we turned all that off and the thing- And you were fine ... finally worked.

Yeah, yeah. And I was like, "Ah, yeah." 'Cause it just- Yeah ... every time the camera would move it'd be like, "You're gonna get in a car crash." Yeah. Just shut the car down. Just shut it down. Yeah. Everything like limp mode. Yeah. So but do, uh, do you have any project cars? Or like are you- The last major project car, so I got burnt out like most people do- Yeah

with that stuff, um, was when I joined SEMA I didn't have anything. I just had my Accord, which was lowered on wheels. But I'm like, "How can I join SEMA and not have a project car?" Um, so I ended up, uh, wanted [01:10:00] something analog. Really wanted something Honda, 'cause that's my roots. Yeah. Started looking- Well, really you're like an Integra guy, right?

That's kind of- First car was Integra. Yeah. So, um, looked for an Integra Type R DC2 'cause it's one of the cars that I'd never really owned. Mm-hmm. And I really love the Japanese front end. Of course, it's one of the best. It's one of the best. And so I started looking for one, um, talked to the guys at Top Ranked, and it was just, it felt really expensive for what it was.

And- Mm. What are they going for these days? At that time it was in the 30s- Yeah ... and 40s, and then I wanted to make mine California compliant, which is another- Mm ... 10K, like 8 to 10K. Um, and so it was like 50 grand for this car that wasn't super clean, that I needed to, like, do some restoration on. We'll, we'll call it.

Yeah. Cha- Champ White. Yeah. Always, you know? Um, and then I was like, you know, one of the cars that I really loved, 'cause I had, I had an NSX for 12 years, um, was the NSX, but even more so was the S2000 that [01:11:00] was in Fast & Furious. Mm-hmm. And I only had that for 18 months, 'cause we sold it to them, right? Um, for it to become the pink car in, in the movie.

But I really enjoyed that car. I didn't think I was a convertible guy- Mm-hmm ... until I had that car. Um, I thought Honda transmissions were, were good, but then I, I, I got in, when I had the S2000, it's like this is one of the best transmissions- Yeah ... ever, ever, ever. And so I just remembered that, and I was, so I started looking in the market and found one for, like, 30K.

And so that was my project for a while. I knew Kenji and the boys were developing a version two of their turbo kit. Mm-hmm. That was going through CARB compliance. We were, at SEMA we were actually doing a lot of the emissions testing for it, so I knew that was coming down the pipe, and I was like, ooh, a turbocharged S2000 that's CARB legal, like, that's gonna be it.

So- As you approach 50- Yeah, yeah ... that is, like, super cool. It's super important, right? And, and working for SEMA too, like, you gotta do it- Right ... above board. So, so I did that, but I, and I made it a tribute build. I, [01:12:00] I... A car came to me through a friend, like, "Hey, there's guys selling one." It's, I'm like, "What color?"

"Black with red." I'm like, "Oh, serendipitous." My first ca- Mm-hmm ... first one that I had that was Johnny Tran's car was black with red. So my thought was if Fast w- it's kinda like your question, see me, like me in 2020, was this, at that time 2023 or 2022, somewhere around there. Like, how would I build this car if Fast One was just coming out- Okay

with modern day parts, right? And, and stuff that I could get now. So that car is very, 'cause a couple of people that have built recreations for Fast Cars were like, they found out I was getting the S2000, they were super excited. Or y- which, which version are you gonna build? Johnny's version or Suki's version?

I'm like, "Neither." Like, why would I wanna build one of those? Like, that was my car back then. Yeah, yeah. Like, I wanna build the new version, the RJ version for now. So, um, yeah, there was a 20th anniversary bumper that launched 20- um, I think 2021 or 2022, that made the car look like a [01:13:00] modern S2000. Mm-hmm. And I saw the Evasive's S2000.

Are you familiar with this car? Yep. Yep. Such a amazing concept. And so that inspired me to be like, "Oh, I'm gonna, you know, use that as inspiration and create my version of that." So, so that's the last project car. Hoonigan wheels and roof and turbocharged and Brembos and all the things that we do. The S2000's a, is one of the few cars that exists- You don't fit in that, though

that makes me wish I was shorter. Yeah. I went to, um, one of the Honda press events- Uh-huh ... for the S2000, got there and didn't fit- Uh-huh ... and couldn't drive the car. Wow, that's a bummer. Like, I ... It literally, like even with the top down- Yeah ... like, it put the top of the windshield right in my- ... my eyeline. Wow.

And just like, just did not fit. Yeah, yeah. And it was like a track event, like the helmet's sticking- Sure ... out the top, and I was like, "This doesn't work." Yeah. But it's pretty cool. I guess most of the, a lot of the Hondas don't work for you. No. A lot of the JDM cars don't work for you. It's one of the reasons why I like Euro cars- Yeah

is because I just fit in them. Fit. Now, everyone thinks I, like, don't like- Sure ... J- JDM or J- Japanese cars. It's like, no, I just don't ... That's why I like- Yeah ... Evos, 'cause I fit in an Evo. [01:14:00] So the S2000's my- Selling Subarus and stuff like that ... my analog car. Yeah. And then I bought the replacement for the SLS, which was- So do you still have that now?

Yeah. Okay, cool. I co-own it with someone. I love co-owning things. You love to co-own, huh? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 'cause then I don't spend as much. I drive the car, like, once a month. Right. Maybe two months. Yeah. And the guy, really close friend of mine, was looking at one and wanted a track, and I'm like, "Let's just build a, like a weekend warrior Cars and Coffee track car."

Yeah. So the, the, the challenge is we're on club sports, so you can imagine how stiff. And, and Chris at KW put street springs in it, and it's still a club sport shock. Yeah. It's still stiff as hell. It's still, that's funny. I feel like I'm gonna lose my kidney every time I drive it. But I still have that car, super enjoy it.

Um, I'd love to do another analog car. I've been... I put into TJ's ear that we should do a c- collab car, like a new school, old school build. Hmm, that's a good one. Um, and he's like, "You're not serious," and I kind of wasn't, but I s- I kind of am, so. What would you build? S15. Yeah. I'd lo- would love an S15. I think that car could launch now, new, and it'd still be good, [01:15:00] you know?

Yeah. Um- It'd probably be better than the last thing Nissan launched. Yeah, yeah. And I just, so, so I k- I need to get back in his ears, like, "RJ, if, when you're serious, text me." I'm like, let me pay off some cars first. But I did replace the SLS, so my, my European collector car is, um, an Aston Martin Vantage F1.

Oh, nice. Which is, uh, uh, the last, this lasts before all the ADOS stuff. Yep, yep. And the new interior. And a lot of people complain 'cause it's the old Mercedes stuff, but to me it's perfect, um, because I, my iPhone works. Mm-hmm. And it's, you still use the little ball, or not- Yeah ... not the track pad, but the little circular thing.

So I, I love that car. It's green. I'm super into green cars right now. That's a good color. Yeah. The Aston Green is like, like chef's kiss, you know? Mm-hmm. And the F1 is one of those- I mean, they kind of, they kind of own the green. They own the green. Like the British do- Yeah. They own, yeah ... they do British racing green very well.

Yeah. When I was looking to replace the SLS, I really got in a zone to, to get an F car. Mm-hmm. And I almost got an F12, 'cause I, I still want a V12 Ferrari someday. But I also really [01:16:00] wanted a green car, and you're not gonna ca- find an F car in green. It's, like, so rare. Yeah. And if, even if you did, it's astronomically expensive.

And so I started looking at all the British cars like Jaguar, Bentley, Aston. And, you know, Aston's one of those brands where like- Everyone loves it, but nobody buys it I, I know. I- Like, you know? TJ and I talked about this. Yeah, and he- Yeah ... he got the new V8, uh- Yeah ... his, his last generation, uh, V8 Vantage.

And I, I love quirky things. I had the SLS 'cause it was quirky. Yeah. It wasn't the 911. It wasn't, you know? Mm-hmm. And so the Aston kinda just spoke to me that way, and I didn't think it would drive as well as it does, especially the F1 edition. Yeah. Which is basically, like, their S version for that generation.

They didn't make any S versions. Everything was, like, an AMR or- Mm-hmm ... you know, something Ultima- 770 Ultimate. So this, the Vantage was just called an F1 edition because they had the safety car. And I remember being so shocked at how good the car drove. And I talked to a lot of journalists, like Bassam or Le- Mm-hmm

you know, Jonny Lieberman. They're like, "Oh, you have an F1? That's a good car." [01:17:00] It's, like, a nod, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, "Oh, shit. I didn't even know this," you know? Um, so I love that car, too, and I, I'm hoping that that one doesn't leave the stable. And I don't ever wanna get to 26 cars, but the S15 would, would be one, and then I want a shooting brake of some sort.

Are you a fan of... Well, you're a hatch- Of course. I love- You're a hatch fan, so. I love hatches. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the shooting brake is just an adult hatchback, right? And bigger. Yeah. Right? Usually bigger, so. Yeah. So if you were, uh, if you were to get a shooting brake, what would be the shooting brake car that you want?

Or the funky clown car. Are you a clown car fan? Yeah, I am. Yeah. I am. I- Are you Z3 or Z4? Um, I like them both. Okay. I actually, we did a episode here, we argued, like, greatest drivers- Sure ... or cars before 2010. Yeah. And I made a strong thing- Z4 ... the M Coupe Z4. Four, yeah, yeah. Like, car- 'Cause now they've got all the CSL stuff on it

was so good. Yeah. Was so- such, such a good car. Yeah, I still look at it on, uh, CarGurus all the time for, like- It's still- Yeah ... they're not, you don't find them around a lot. Yeah. Now, because I mention on the pod, people send them to me all the time. Sure. So, and I'm not a BMW guy, [01:18:00] but- I heard that ... that's the one I would- Yeah

that, I would buy that. I also really like E39 M5s. Okay. Obviously E30s. I re- you know what I really like is, um, a 8 Series. Oh, yeah. Like the old, the old 8 Series. I think that's just the hip-hop in me. Yes. Yeah. Like, it just seems like the kind of car, like- Who was, who was the baseball player? I think Nas had one.

Yeah. J- LL had one. It's like Darryl Strawberry that had a real famous 8 Series. I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was like candy apple and stuff. Yeah. And I mean, as a kid from Queens, you gotta love that, so. Is, is there an Audi that you don't have that you would love to have? Um- 'Cause I know you're a big Audi

guy. That's probably your number one brand. Yeah, I like the, I like the, I like the B7 RS4. Okay. Which was like the 2007, 2008 RS4. Okay. We got them as a sedan here. Sure. I prefer the Avant. I like RS4, the B5 RS4. B5 RS4. Um, Vinny just picked one up. Sure. And he keeps joking that he's gonna sell it to me. But I ha- Yeah

but I already have an RS2. Okay. Um, I don't know. There's a part of me that sometimes wants, uh, an R8. Okay. And I'll tell- Wh- which one? Which one? [01:19:00] I'll tell you why. The V10 gated- Gated ... would be the move. Yeah. Generation one. Yeah. Yeah. But- I loved generation one ... yeah, but I would actually really take any. If there was the right price on- Sure, yeah

on a gated V8- Yeah ... I would do it. Do that. But the V10 is- Yeah ... it just sings. Yeah. It sounds cool. Um- Well, it's the Lamborghini ... I'll tell you why, though. Because I think I would drive it more. It, it feels- Yeah ... more like a daily driver than, like, this 360 does. Yes, yes. And I've driven, you know, I was a journalist in that era.

Yeah. The Gallardo and that side by side- Sure ... even though it's the same car- Sure ... in essentially. Yeah. There's something about the Audi that, like, you could, like, park it at Whole Foods. Yeah. I, I just, I don't know what it is. It just, it's, I guess the same thing that happened to you that night in Target.

Mm-hmm. It doesn't yell douchebag- Yeah. ... as much as other supercars. Yeah. But it's like a supercar in sensible shoes or something. Yeah. Because it's still an Audi. I don't know. That, I mean, Lamborghini is one. I was a partner in a business, we bought the Gallardo- They make great cars Yeah But a l- [01:20:00] lot of enthusiasts don't get it because it comes with this baggage.

Yeah, yeah. Right? The Dues- the due- I'm sure it's a stigma, yeah Yeah, and you're like, "They make such a great car." Yeah You know? Um, would you agree that the first gen R8 is basically the NSX redone? Like, that was my- Hmm ... 'cause I was a h- I was an NSX owner for 12 years, and I was always waiting for them to come out with a new one, and they had the, the HSC concept, and then the HSV.

So you're saying first gen V8 R- R8. For me, would've been what the NSX should've been when Honda Acura was looking to launch the new NSX before the twin turbo hybrid one. Yes, yes, yes, yes. They had all these concept. Yeah HSC concept, HSV. They even raced it in JGTC, the HSV concept. Yep And they talked about a, a V8, a, a V10 because they were in F1, and then the R8 came out, and I was like, "That's the new gen NSX."

I never thought about that. Yeah But I, I... That's an interesting take, and I'm- Yeah ... I, one, I don't disagree with. Yeah I went to the [01:21:00] international launch, which they did, like, outside of Phoenix- Mm-hmm ... for the R8- Sure ... when it came out, and, uh, so I was one of the first people in the wor- I was literally the first people in the world to drive it.

And I remember thinking, like, "Wow, this is really good." Good, yeah Because I had driven Ferraris, I had driven Lambos. Sure And they all had, like, a little bit of like, "Oh, just look past this part." Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look past this one thing- Yeah ... that's, like, the fit and finish isn't good on. Sure But because it was Audi- Audi, yeah

and Audi was killing fit and finish in that era- Yeah ... that it just, like, you got in, you're like, the shifter, like, everything just- Yeah ... felt right, the placement. And as someone who's 6'8", like, I fit well in it. Fit in it, yeah. Because it was built for Germans. And it looked cool as hell And it looked really cool, yeah.

Yeah, it looked really good So it was a good design era for them. Yeah So, yeah If, if, if you had to sell all your cars, all 26 And keep one or buy one Mm ... what would that one car be? This conver- Yeah ... this has come up a couple times- Yeah ... and I answer it different every time- Okay ... 'cause I think it depends- Is there three-

on the day ... or is it one? Um, so for me, like- Yeah ... my- the most important car to me in my own [01:22:00] collection- Sure ... of cars is my 911. Okay. Right? I just love that car. Sure. Whenever I get in it, even just getting in it to move it out of the- Yeah ... garage for us to film this, like, I get excited by it. Like, I just like it.

Yeah. That being said, it's not a car I could live with every day. Sure. Um, I, I- Okay, we'll give you a daily ... oh, if I get a daily- Okay ... then it's like the- That would be the one ... it, it, I, probably that or- Is there something- Or m- I really do enjoy my RS2. Okay Um, I j- Is there something unattainable, like, that's crazy, crazy, like, oh- I'm not, I, like, of course, like everybody, like, I love things like an F1 or like- Yeah

you know- Yeah, McLaren F1's top- Yeah, or like an F40- Top of the food chain, yeah ... or things like that. But- So ... I don't know. I, I kinda dream a little bit lower. Sure, okay. Like, I like simpler stuff. Okay. Um, yeah, I don't know. I, I, it's a tough one. Like, I, I've, I've thought about, like, if I could only... I have a friend, uh, Justin Osmer.

I went, "Do you know Justin at Forza?" Yeah, yeah. And, like, he has an RS6, and I- Right ... I spoke badly about the RS6- Uh-huh ... on the pod, and he was like, "Oh, I can't believe you said that." And I was like, "You know, if I had to only [01:23:00] own one car- Sure ... that'd probably be it- Yeah ... 'cause it checks a lot of boxes. Sure. It's a great dad mobile.

Yeah. It's still fast. Yeah. It looks cool. Yeah. Like, it's, it's- What was your comment on it? ... kind of a full package. You, you, you, you feel, you feel like it's overdone? Is what, I, 'cause I just listened to that on Drive- I felt like, I felt like it was, um, I felt like the RS6 breaks what I like about Audi. Okay.

'Cause I think Audi's about subtlety. Oh, yeah. And that thing is not subtle. It's not subtle. It is not subtle. I would take the RS6 over the M5 wagon Hands down Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah You know? Then you have five wagons, two bigs, two- That to me is like Yeah. But I'm very excited about ... Did you see the Alpina concept- No, I haven't

that just got launched? Um, you know, at BMW design language, I know you're not a BMW guy, lately hasn't been the greatest. Yeah You know? And- Yeah, the big nostrils- Yeah ... and everything. And then I'm still, like, I'm- Also, the new door handles bother me. How- I'm a big door handle guy ... are you? What's your favorite door handle of all time then?

An Audi door handle. Oh. The classic, like- Uh-huh ... recessed wheel. Sure. Like, all it is is the pull out. Oh, yeah. Like, I [01:24:00] like pull out handles- Okay ... more than, like, the lat- Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah ... yeah, the latch. The door handle. Kinda like the lever style- Okay ... door handle. I think the- Is there a specific door handle?

I, the, that door handle- ... on the RS too is- Really? I mean, so much so that I- Really ... I don't know if you know this, but in the Volkswagen community- Uh-huh ... we used to cut those door handles- Yeah ... off of Audis and put them on Volkswagen. Ah. We just- Because it's, like, such a clean- Clean look ... looking door handle.

Yeah. Um, yeah, there's just cer- Like, for example, I love FD RX-7s- That's cool ... 'cause I love the way that they integrate- Yeah ... the door handle- Yeah ... into the top of the door. You can't even tell. Yeah. It's just super clean. Yeah. But meanwhile, even though I've owned them, like, GD STis- Okay ... or, you know, WRXs- Yeah

I hate the door handle. Oh. Like, the door handle feels like an afterthought. Sure. Like, they designed the car- Super functional ... and then they were like, "I don't know. Can we order a door handle from somewhere else?" I also- Just stick it on ... it also bothers me about, like, Corvettes- Uh-huh ... 'cause, like, the Corvette door handle on, like- Sure

the C5 is the same door handle from, like, the Lumina- Oh, yeah ... 'cause it's, like, a parts bin door handle. Yeah. Um, but I think, like, but I ... The new door handles- Yeah ... on the new BMWs are just, [01:25:00] like, it'll ... One'll drive by, and I'll just stare at the door handle. At it, yeah. Like, why did, why? Yeah. What is that? So I don't know.

I am a fan. Aston's kept the same door handle for such a long time now, but it's- Yeah ... you know, it's got the three bars on it, and you kinda ... Now it kind of flips out and meets you. Yeah. But before you would kinda ... But it kind of was- Push, yeah. No, it was good ... kind of hidden. It was really good. It was a really good door handle.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not surprised they've not changed it because it's like- I think I read somewhere that you said you originally wanted to be a car designer But you couldn't, but you couldn't draw I can't draw to save my life. Yeah. Like, I wanted to go to ArtCenter so bad. I had friends in ArtCenter that I worked with on different projects.

Um, my brother was an, also an, a, an artist growing up. He was a great illustrator, and he went to art school to O- um, I think he went to Otis for a little while. He didn't finish. But I just had this dream, 'cause y- you wanna be like your older brother. Yeah. The only thing I could sketch was Snoopy. So I have this affinity for, like, anything Snoopy collab because it reminds me of being, like, eight.

It's so funny- Yeah ... because I, so I was into graffiti as a kid. Mm-hmm. [01:26:00] Which a lot of other people who were into graffiti- Yeah ... were really, really good at drawing. Right. But I wasn't. I was good at letter work- Okay ... and I, like, understood typography- Yeah ... but it didn't translate into drawing. Sure. And I taught myself to draw Goofy.

Oh, okay. So to this day, every character I draw- Yep ... is based on Goofy. Based on Goofy. Like, the way the eyes meet the nose- Yeah, yeah ... and the mouth, like, everything. Like, I'll draw for my son- Well- ... and I'm like, I'm like, he's like, "Oh, what's that?" I'm like, in my head I'm like, that's me still stealing Goofy when I was, like, 10 years old.

Yeah, that's so funny. You probably, you probably doodled it that, over 1,000 times. Uh-huh, uh-huh. I'm in the same boat. It's funny you... Similarity there So I tried. And not e- I didn't even try. Just like you wasn't having a good- I just say, we get into this detailed conversation of door handles. Yes, yes. That's like a very designer look.

That's a very design... I'm, I'm a f- huge fan of design. Yeah. Car design, fashion design, sneaker art. Um, there, there's a... I went to Pebble Beach for the first time in '09- Mm-hmm ... as a guest of Barry McGuire. Um, and I remember some f- we, we were, like, driving down from a wedding in San Francisco. We were gonna b- be there for a few hours and, and drive [01:27:00] home.

And the SLR Stirling Moss was there Mm ... which is like s- I never th- I never thought, one, I'd see one- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... because there's like 30 in the world. Yep. And I remember walking around it and sitting in front of it for like 30 minutes. Yep. My friends were like, "We gotta drive home. Let's go." And I'm like, "Wait, wait, wait.

I don't know if I'm ever gonna see this car ever again." And I would sit, like, next to the, the side exhaust on the fender- Yeah ... and like just absorb the design of it and yeah, I think, you know- And you're seeing the original, the original- No, no. It was the, um- So you're seeing the actual ac- ... the McLaren- Okay

uh, Mercedes- So, so in the episode- Yeah ... I don't know if you heard this episode where, where we talked about the mo- don't meet your hero cars. Okay. And, um, Matt Farah said that- Really? ... the SLR is one of the worst supercars he's ever driven. Oh. Well, and the SLR, to me- But I get it. But from a design- Yeah

aspect, it w- it's definitely, it was definitely something u- Sure ... very unique, you know? Very. But do you know about the Stirling Moss version? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That had, that was like the speedster. Yeah, it was like the 727, right, which was the- Well, there was the McLaren [01:28:00] SLR and then the 722. That was it, the 722.

But then they made one called the Stirling Moss. Okay. Which looks, their idea was the modern-day version of the Stirling Moss race car. Right. Right. So it was the SLR without the roof. Right. So it just had like the little- It just had the windscreen. Yep. And then, and it had a different rear and, you know, it was a true speedster- Yeah, yeah, yeah

like in a modern day. I remember that. And it had this long, I love long-hooded cars- Yep ... because I'm a big '50s and '60s, like, European car fan. Mm-hmm. E-Type Jag, 300 SL. Yep. Any 250 Ferrari, right? Any of that stuff. So that was the one thing about the SLR. It, as a normal car, it didn't look the greatest- Yep

because it was too derived from F1. But as the Stirling Moss, it was like, oh. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I sat there forever and d- you know, that's kind of my love for design peeking out and, and the frustration of like, ah, I wish I could design something that cool. Mm-hmm. Which is why I built so many cars, 'cause it was that creative expression for me.

Like, I would always joke that I was a, just a glorified [01:29:00] parts picker and stylist and not a car builder because I, at a certain point, I didn't wanna ... Like, I'd put headers on. Mm. I didn't wanna, like, tear the engine down or like s- Steph built ... You know, like when I blew my Integra up, I went to JG Engine Dynamics, which was a engine build shop at the time, and Steph rebuilt my engine.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause I know it was on the podcast. But I didn't wanna do any of that. I just wanted to, I just wanted to dream up builds and be like, "Yeah, that's the build." Yeah. You know? And I would ... I, I'm sure you were like this when you were young. You would, like, take a chassis or a- Uh-huh ... a model and be like, "I would do these wheels, this kit."

The paper, the paper build. Yeah. You know? It was so much fun. Which, and then Forza and everything came out, so now you can build it digitally, but. You know, it's funny, 'cause I was never- Mm-hmm ... that big of a gamer, but when Gran Turismo- No. Yeah ... the first one came out- Yeah ... right? Um, I went and I played at a friend's house.

I'd never played anything like it before. Sure. It was, it was- Nobody did. Yeah ... yeah, it was revolutionary. And I worked at an electronics store at the time- Uh-huh ... 'cause, like, cellphones were like- Sure ... StarTACs were like all the rage. Yeah, StarTACs. So I was like, I was like selling, I was like slinging StarTACs- Uh, [01:30:00] StarTACs

in Queens at this place called Nobody Beats the Wiz. Uh-huh. And I went to work the next day and bought the PlayStation- For that ... with the g- that came with Gran Turismo. Gran Turismo, yeah. It was like the package box. And I brought it home, and, uh, my girlfriend at the time broke up with me that weekend-

because I- You played so much ... I played for, like, 72 hours straight. Like, I wasn't sleeping- Yeah, yeah ... and I was playing to modify the cars. Yeah, yeah. And I had, I had gotten, um, a great- What was the car you mentioned? Tommy Kyra? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, and it's because of, like, that game. Uh-huh. Like, there's certain cars that I love- Sure

because of that game. But the, I have this love affair with the Mitsubishi 3000 GT- Oh, from it ... because it was in, in that game. And you could do like- Yes, that was the first car ... the stage three- Yeah ... like, aero kit. Sure. You could do all that stuff. And I would just play and then save it to my card. Uh-huh. And then I would, like, get a bunch of money- Yeah

and then I would sell it, and I would go buy- Sure ... and then reset the game and go buy another car, just to see what you could do. Yeah. Just what you could build it. Yeah. And, like, that was so much... Like, I didn't even think I cared as much about the racing- Right ... as it was like- Building, yeah ... "Wow, I get to m- I get to, like, imagine- [01:31:00] Sure

what I wanna build and actually see it." Yeah. Because as someone who couldn't draw, I was never able to see- Yep ... what I wanted. Oh, yeah. And it wasn't until I was working in the magazine world, it's actually funny 'cause it was the first time we had this idea, I reached out to John Sibal- Uh-huh ... and was like, "Hey, I have this idea.

Can you make this?" Oh, yeah. You know, and this was early days- Sure ... right? This is before everybody- Yeah ... used a render guy. Yeah. It was like John was, like, the first person- Yeah ... to do it. And someone had mentioned to me, like, "Oh, there's this guy, John Sibal- Sibal, yeah ... and he can do, Sibal, and he can do this, he can do that."

Yeah. And, and- Have you had him on the podcast? Not yet. I haven't. Actually, he's a really good one to have on. Yeah, he's some- And I, I, like I said, I, I hired him to do work for me at 0-60- Sure ... back in the day. And, like, you know, and then obviously, like, early Raw Welt stuff, like, you know- Yeah ... he used the round for that.

So yeah, it was, he'd be a good one to have on. But, um, and he was a pioneer in that space. Yeah. And now there's thousands of people who do- Yeah ... the same thing, but it's- Yeah ... it's a cool space. Do you think, we were talking about tipping points earlier- Mm-hmm ... with car culture. Maybe you've s- spoken about it.

I, I feel like [01:32:00] Gran Turismo, Forza, even some of the mobile games are a huge contributor- Oh, for sure ... to the culture. For sure. Like, 'cause there's a whole generation that loves Spoon- Yep ... GTRs because they played Gran Turismo 1, 2, 3- Yep ... and then got into graphics and whatnot when Forza- Yes ... allowed the livery editor.

Yep. Right? And then you could choose parts to mod as well. So y- y- we talked about this moment- Mm-hmm ... where we felt like the enthusiast market was gone, right? Mm-hmm. Where there was like, you know, the Wall Street Journal said no, you know, no young kids are getting their driver's license. Oh, yeah. Right? This was like this, like, kind of post-recession moment.

Sure. The Prius is the most popular car in Hollywood. Oh, yeah. Um, you know, and that's when we launched Hoonigan. Mm-hmm. So, like, we're literally launching a brand about car culture and enthusiasts when it feels like it's- Mm-hmm ... at its worst, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and one of the things that we would always tell people is, like, the community's there, they're just in video games right now.

Right. And they're going to emerge. 'Cause we were watching [01:33:00] what was happening in- Yep ... the gaming community, and then when, um, we did the collab with Forza- Mm-hmm ... uh, it was crazy because- Right ... I would show up to events with my 911- Uh-huh ... and people would be like, "Yo, you built the car from Forza." And I'm like, "No, it's my car in Forza."

Yeah. But just the realization that Forza was bigger than- Yeah ... anything we were doing. Yeah. Right? And there were people who knew. I mean, I remember when the Dirt video game came out. Mm-hmm. I, talking to Colin McRae, and Colin McRae said, "People think I'm a video game character." Oh, wow. Like, they don't know- Yeah.

Yeah, Colin McRae. Yeah ... I'm actually a WRC driver, right? Multiple champion. And when he said that to me, like, it didn't make sense. Right. And then years later, we're in this similar situation- Yeah ... where people are seeing the Hoonicorn in a game- Mm-hmm ... or one of our cars, and they don't know that those cars actually exist- Yeah

in real life. They see them as game cars, and then that's their entryway in. Sure. And Hoonigan has a lot to thank to the, to the Forza guys because we saw this huge surge in, like, a new younger [01:34:00] audience that wasn't old enough to drive yet. Yep. But all of a sudden became aware of us and then tuned into the content we were making- Yeah

because of that. Okay. So like, I, I think that in a lot of ways, gaming culture kept the car community alive- Alive, yeah ... during its worst period. I was so excited. I had met, uh, Kazunori Yamauchi- Yeah ... from Gran Turismo, creator of Gran Turismo. I had some friends at Sony US. I got invited, uh, when they were making Gran Turismo 3, they had to map Laguna Seca and Sears Point.

Oh, yeah. So I went on that trip with them. Oh. Um, and rode around in the van as they, like, mapped the track out, very different from how they do it now, and then somehow got connected to the Forza guys, Dan Greenwald and, and everyone- Okay ... at Turn 10. For Forza 1, they had this idea that people would drive the game and then drive the track in real life.

Mm-hmm. And so they got Gunnar, I think his name was Gunnar Jannard or something. He's a f- a pro, um, a prototype driver- Okay ... that drove for Panoz or something. And they're like, "Hey, RJ, we're, we're thinking you [01:35:00] could be, like, the gamer kid." And I'm like, "Okay, cool. Let's do it." And they're like, "Hey, we, we think you guys will race in the game, and then you'll compete on the track."

I'm like, "I'm not that great of a driver." "This guy's gonna wi- like, wipe the floor with me." So but that was my I remember thinking, like, nothing's gonna beat Gran Turismo. Yeah. Right? And who are you guys? Like, oh, yeah, Microsoft. Yeah, you guys are big, you know. And, and when I played the game, I was like, oh, wow, this was- Yeah

pretty good. You know, it was very different. Um, and then as they made Forza 2 and allowed modification and then, and then Delivery, I was like, wow, there, there, now there's these two huge franchises. And of course, Need For Speed came out as well. Mm-hmm. Uh, very different, but still ag- and again, another franchise that I felt like was such a big part of how people got introduced to cars, and then also modifying cars.

Yeah. And special cars. Like, oh, I won this car. I had to race however long, you know? Yeah. And then, uh, it was a prize or whatever. It's, it's, it's funny how much of that has built sort of... I think in a lot of ways the video game became the new car magazine. Mm. Yeah. And I don't mean, like, Super Street. I mean, [01:36:00] like, MotorTrend- Sure

and Automobile, because people understood the stats- Yep ... because they read the stats in the game. Yeah. So the other day, um, a friend of mine, uh, Matt Kirk, he bought a Lupo Cup car- Okay ... which is like a small Volkswagen. Sure. Like, like almost like... Oh, it's almost like the German's version of a K car, right?

Okay. So it's really, really small. But they built this racing series called the Lupo GTI Cup Series, and most people know it because it was in Gran Turismo. Oh. So I post- Yep ... the photo, not realize, like, thinking about it as a, from a VW POV. Sure. And all these people were like, "Gran Turismo! Gran Turismo!

Gran-" Yeah. I was like, oh, I forgot, right. It was in there. Lupo Cup was one of the things you had to- Had to do ... you had to clear- Yeah ... to get your license- To get the license ... or something like that. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's so funny, like- Yeah ... how so many people know about cars- Sure. ... the way that I think you and I probably know because we read the magazines.

Yeah. Yeah. Where for them, the video game- Was the magazine ... was that. And, and, and they got the sh- I've never thought of it that way ... and especially, like, knowing how much horsepower it had. Sure. Its zero to 60 time. Sure. Like, these were things that were relevant [01:37:00] stats. Yeah. Where we read it in this little column- Oh

in the corner of the magazine. Yeah. They got it as, like, this layout, so. There was a moment, I was going to Supercar Saturdays at Lambo Newport- Mm-hmm ... in like 2014, where it, where it felt like kids were not into cars anymore, and it, and then it kind of shifted. Mm-hmm. And I remember being at one of those meets, and I hear, like, a young voice, and I turn around, and it's, like, some 12-year-old.

And he's spitting, like, every stat to like his dad, right? And I'm like, "Oh, it's coming back." Yeah. You know? And- I mean, that's the old joke- Yeah ... of like when they talk about train kids. Yeah. And like honestly, car guys are the exact same. Exact- yeah. Yeah Like, you could just slay every stat- Everything out

yeah, about this, that, and the other thing. It's interesting, I went to a very similar event that you did, uh, but it was for Gran Turismo, which was like- Okay ... we're gonna take it from the track, and then play in the game. Oh, in the game. Yeah. We did it Laguna Seca. Um, but it was actually my first... The, the only thing I really remember from the weekend was, um, it was my first time hanging out with Ken Gushi- Ooh, okay

'cause he had just, he had just done- Done the [01:38:00] four-deal ... the four-deal. Yeah. And so he was like 19. Right. Um, and, uh, it was like this, and that was like before Laguna allowed drifting. Oh, wow. And he starts like drifting- Yeah ... through the track, and they're like- They're freaking out ... losing their mind over it.

But I remember like my time was like 62 seconds off the video game. Like wow. 'Cause like- Yeah ... on the game you're just like flat out through everything. Yeah, everything. Yeah. And then you're like, "Yeah, I'm clearly not a race car driver." Right. Right. That was humbling. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Definitely humbling moment.

I tried to be a race car driver in my life. That didn't pan out. Yeah. When was that? Uh, well, because of all the import drag racing stuff, like Steph, Adam- Yeah ... everyone was getting pro deals. So I had done a deal with Acura to build a front-wheel drive, um, pro car. Mm-hmm. You know, I never finished it. My first chassis was crooked, had to scrap it.

Paid another builder, the engine guys closed down, so I just said forget it. I then tried to be a circuit driver- Mm ... uh, with the RSX that they gave me. They, basically they gave me a couple engines and, and a ch- a pre-production chassis [01:39:00] to, to try to build a race team. And I was ... You know, I could, I could work my way to be a decent driver and be, like, mid-pack, and I was pretty quick on a go-kart.

Yeah. But I wasn't, like ... You know, before we started, I, I talked about living with Dai, and, like- Yeah ... Dai was so naturally gifted, and I knew Steph, and he was so naturally gifted, and. And I had to work really hard to just be decent. Right. And I had all these sponsors, 'cause I was all consulting for them, so everyone thought I had this huge deal to go race, but no, I had this deal to help them market, and then I just used that money to go racing.

Right. Which is what everyone does. Which is what everyone does. So then I just never ... And it, it, it got to a point it got too expensive, and I was like, "Wow, I ne- really need to focus on just making money, uh, to pay the bills, and, and the racing's just u- using up too much of it." So I have all this photography, and, like, the sparkle suit with all the sponsors, and I had a custom helmet.

And again, I was not bad. Yeah. Um, but I wasn't, like, winning a bunch of stuff, you know? I, I [01:40:00] would go to, like, the go-kart tracks, and then other people that would race, like NASA and SCCA, they're like, "Oh, car show kid." They're like, instantly like- Yeah ... "This guy can't drive," you know? And then, uh, one of my other roommates was this guy Andy Hope, who was a- I remember Andy

a Honda- Yeah ... H1 champion. Mm-hmm. And he would be like, "Oh, car show kid's not bad," you know? And then we'd go race. And, and I'd kinda win because I was, I was pretty small. Right. And these guys were like, "Wow, car show kid ain't half bad," you know? Um, but that's what I was known for. That's all I was ... That's, that's the peak of my racing- Right

uh, career, so. But- Do you get to go do track days at all anymore, or? Not as much. Yeah. So when I was at Meguiar's, we were a sponsor of AMG's driving academy. Okay. Um, there were a lot of times I would take media there, and so I got a lot of track time, which is why I ended up in an SLS, because it was so capable on track, and it was very surprising.

So that was the last. I probably did- five or six or seven- Mm-hmm ... you know, two, three-day advanced kind of track days. I'd love to do the Porsche one- [01:41:00] Mm-hmm ... which I think is at Barber Motorsports, right? Barber's fantastic. Yeah. I've heard really great things. But I've driven Laguna a lot. I drove COTA a lot.

I've driven Road Atlanta. Mm. I do miss it. Yeah. You know, I don't, I don't believe in taking any of my cars to the track. Yeah. I'd rather go drive someone else's car. I mean, that was the best- Yeah ... part about being a journalist. Yeah. Is I've driven so many- So many ... tracks- Yeah ... in other people's cars. Do you have a fa- do you have a fa- do you have a favorite one?

In the US, it's probably Laguna Seca. Laguna. Um, I do really love Barber, though. Okay. I mean, Barber is a fantastic... I think I drove a Lotus there. I forget what I drove there, but, um, it's just a fantastic circuit. Right. And I, and I like the shape of it. I like VIR a lot. Okay. Um- I haven't driven VIR ... um, internationally, uh, Nürburgring is, like- Oh

is just as- Have you driven that? Yeah. It's- The whole thing? A, a bunch. Yeah. Wow. It's, it's a re- we were- I would love to do that ... me, Vinny, and Ron were supposed to race the 24. I heard about that, yeah. In the Hyundai or something? Yeah, with Hyundai, and, um, so we were- Lived there for two months or something

prepping for that. Yeah, that w- there was gonna be a whole thing- Yeah ... and unfortunately it all- What a bummer ... it all fell apart with- Yeah ... sort of how the things ended with Hoonigan. But, um, [01:42:00] that's always been... Like, I would, I would love to go spend three months, live there- Do that ... and just buy, like, a, you know- Yeah

like, a, a Ring weapon and just- Okay ... just go and drive it every day. What, what would be the Ring weapon? Ah, that's a good question. 'Cause I, I, I think that's probably... Yeah, I don't know. That's a- Would you start in a s- lower car- Yeah ... and then progress up the- Yeah ... like Gran Turismo? I, I'm a, I'm a, I am definitely...

Like, Vinny's the kinda guy who w- like, wants to go drive in a GT3 RS. Right. And, like, I'm like, "I'll go in a Lupo Cup car to start." Yeah, yeah. Like, just, yeah. Like, I like- That progression ... bringing the slowest thing possible- Sure ... as fast as I can go, and then upgrade, especially as I've gotten older. Yeah.

Like, I've driven really fast cars on track- Yeah ... and I, I don't like thinking about the math of the speed. Okay. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like, where you're like, "Fuck, I'm- Yeah ... moving right now." Moving, yeah. Yeah. Like, I kind of am- Where your foot starts to- Yeah ... jitter, yeah ... where you're like, "Don't lift.

Don't..." Like, when you have to yell at your foot- Oh, yeah ... not to lift, like, versus, like, being in a car where- Flat out ... you're just, like, just- Flat out ... just manhandling it- Yeah, yeah ... through corners. Like, I [01:43:00] prefer to be at 11/10ths than, like, be nervous at an- Sure ... 8 or 9/10ths in a car. 9/10ths, yeah. I know. Yeah.

An RS will definitely scare- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... the living daylights out of you. Yeah, so, um- Yeah, so I don't know. I think that there's that, and then, um, I don't know, I've driven, I've driven a bunch and it was super fun as a journalist to do that. Sure. I miss that part of it. Part of it. It was really fun. Um, I don't get out on track anywhere near as, uh, much as I should.

Man, me either. I think the last time I was on track was like two years ago- As we get o- ... in this, in the Ferrari ... as we get older, like- Yeah ... we always talk about go- I built this S2000 to be a weekend- Yeah ... track car. I've ... four years, three years? Yeah. Just zero. I can't believe- I keep thinking I'm gonna get back up to Willow Springs- Yes

'cause like I know a bunch of people- Oh, I mean, it's looking good ... who work there. Yeah. And like, yeah, 'cause like that's the last thing I do is Streets in the- Sure ... in the Ferrari, but, uh- And Streets looks beautiful now- Yeah ... with all the runoff and everything. Yeah, yeah. It looks, it looks- I'd love to drive it

it looks, it looks good, so. We- okay, we need to make a pact. We need to- We should do that, yeah ... we could go to Streets. We could go slow, we could go slow man car day- Yeah, drive ... out there. Yeah, just chilling. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I love racing. Um, I was also that person who wanted to be a race car driver- Yeah

but knew I didn't have the means to. [01:44:00] Sure. Which is one of the reasons I went to journalism. Okay. Well, I think one of the jokes is like, if you're not fast enough to race, write. Oh, wow I guess I kind of fell into that as well 'Cause, 'cause you could still get- Yeah ... the access. The access. You could still get to the cars.

You could still kind of- Oh ... do all of that. Um, and then when I met Ken, I was actually trying to make a real strong effort to start rally racing. Sure. And then Ken was like, "Okay, I want you to come and help me run my team and do all that." Sure. I'm like, "Cool." And I was building a rally car. Yeah. Um, do you know Suppy?

Yeah. Yeah, so Suppy- I know Suppy from his Florida days, actually Yeah, yeah. So Suppy was building a rally car for me, and it was, like, sitting at his shop when he was running LM24 after RPM. Okay. And, um, Ken, I was like, "Ooh." He's, like, in my head, I'm like, "I'm gonna race rally." Sure. And I'm like, "And I'll prep for it."

And Ken's like, "You can't race the same series I compete in." He's like, "You have a job you have to do-" Oh "... while I'm there." And I was like, "Oh, right. All right, Suppy, sell the car." Yeah. And then that was pretty much- That was it ... like, the, my last real intention of, like- Yeah ... trying to go do racing, but I don't know.

I, I want, I hope I have this, like, [01:45:00] next chapter in my life- Mm-hmm ... where I get to be, like, a gentleman driver- Sure ... and I show up and go do track. I, like Jeff Swart. Yes. Like, I wanna be Jeff Swart- That's who I want ... where, like, my greatest racing I do in my 50s and 60s. Yeah. I'll, I'll try and join you. Yeah, that'd be fun.

I'll try and join you, man. Yeah, yeah. And we could... You could be, you could be a car show guy. And I could be, like, like, you know, whatever film director guy- Director ... or whatever it is that- That'll be the name- ... what I'll get called. Yeah ... above our door. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Film director guy and car show guy.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, so. What is your next... 'Cause I know this has been a topic in a few of the pods. Mm-hmm. Like, what's your next... I know you're working on or finished Drifter, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's, I- Yeah ... been done with that since last year, but obviously still working. Yeah, are you working on anything that you can talk about or?

Um, I've got two different, um, feature films- Wow ... that are, like, in early stages- Okay ... of me doing kind of the same thing I did for Drifter- Drifter, yeah ... which is, like, second- Second, second unit ... second unit director work on action, and I love that. Yeah. Like, if I could pick anything in the world to do- Sure

it's that. That would be it. That's your next- Yeah, I just, I- That's the next- I really, really enjoy that ... life stage of, of [01:46:00] Scotto. Yeah, it's- Brian Scotto ... and it's interest- And I think that's why, like, when we talked before about Fast and Furious, it's why I like Tokyo Drift- Sure ... because I can respect a lot of the driving that was done in that.

Yeah. I would still do it different, but still I, I love a- Sure. I know that a lot of it was done for real, and I like- Right ... the practical side of it, so that part's interesting. But what I learned with this film with Sung Kang- Sung was, um, extremely gracious with, like, giving me room to do my thing. Oh, wow.

Right? So he kinda- Yeah ... let me, you know, really ch- you know, choose how the action scenes were gonna happen- Sure ... and develop those and work with him on it. But there was also a couple moments where they let me step in and do some narrative work. Okay. And that's not my specialty. Sure. But I was like, "Wow, I, I really actually really- Enjoy it

enjoy this piece." And- Yeah, 'cause you're writing a few things, right? Um, I helped them with, um, with some of the, some of the scenes and the car scenes. Like, so- Sure ... one of the scenes, a bunch of the stuff with Dai I built- Oh, okay ... and built around for him. Um- I haven't watched it. I haven't seen any of it- Oh, really?

at all. So Sung- [01:47:00] Yeah, let's- ... hook a brother up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I, I, there, we're, I can, I can't, it's, it's, there's gonna be an announcement soon- Can, yeah ... but I can't, I can't talk about it yet. Yeah, yeah. But, um, yeah, there's, that was really, really fun. It was 30 days on set. Wow. Um, it was brutal, but it was- Yeah

but I loved it. Yeah. And I realized, like, this is what, I would love m- that to be my life. Sure. But not just the car stuff. I enjoyed the h- I just enjoy putting the package together- Put together, the storytelling, right ... and making things. Yeah, and it, it felt somewhat similar to, like, the magazine days where it's like you make all these things- Mm-hmm

and all these different pieces. Yeah. And then you compile them. It comes together. Where YouTube feels a little bit more fractured than that. Sure. It wasn't the same sort of ex- experience because- Yeah ... it's like, oh, it's this- It's very singular ... it's that. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I love sort of that, like, that, that bigger package building.

So there's that. Um- I'd- Yeah, I don't know ... I'd love to see you do a project that's more car cul- like- Yeah. Drifter is a great... It's like the drifting side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But something- Yeah ... I think you had spoken about or, or maybe Will was asking you, like, how would you write, um, a [01:48:00] spinoff for Fast? Mm.

Right? Yeah, yeah. Like, let's say it's, it's my character who had- Yeah ... two, three- Let's do it. Yeah. This is what we should do. This is- So he had like three lines ... we should do the spinoff, yeah. My f- With Da- Danny Yamato ... Yamato. Yamato. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. Sabal's always like, he does this hashtag, like, bring Danny Yamato back.

Yeah. Like, just for fun 'cause he's, he's, he's that guy. He's my friend like that. And- I mean, but- Yeah ... I, I, like, am actually shocked because of how valuable the, the IP asset of Fast and Furious is- Mm ... that they haven't done- Done ... more spinoffs. Well, they're supposed- I know they've just started to announce that they're gonna do- The TV series

a TV series- Yeah ... and all of that, which is great 'cause I think there's a lot of world. Right. But if you go back to the first one, it's like, whatever happened to Hector? Yeah. Like, there's so many things- Yeah, yeah ... you could, there's so many pieces that you could- Yeah ... pull together and build new stories from.

Sure. You could build backstories. You could build all these things- Yeah, yeah ... which I think could be great, you know? We need to work on a, on a project that's very '90s. Yeah. Yeah, I agree, I agree. You know? I think- Rooted. I think that, um One, I think the, the [01:49:00] community's out there for it. Yeah. They want it now.

Um, there hasn't, while there's been really good movies that have cars in them- Sure ... like Baby Driver- Yep ... and whatever, there hasn't been another car culture movie. And if we're being honest about Fast and Furious- Yeah ... it stopped being about car culture- No ... by like the third one. It's a spy movie. Right?

It's, it's- I mean, I think there's the Avengers reference. Yeah. In cars. It's, it's everything else. And it's like, I really think that the car community- Yeah ... would support another good- Supposedly ... car culture movie. Not a racing movie. Yeah. Like a car culture movie. Culture movie. Yeah. Supposedly they're gonna try to go back to it in 11 is, is what Dan- Dave said.

Yeah. Which I don't know how you walk back from going into space in a Fiero. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's, uh, I- To the moon. To the moon. It w- it, it was so funny to me. I, in, I was in the movie theater, 'cause I still love watching- Mm-hmm ... i- in the theater, even though- I went, me and Hert went to go see it. Yeah. And we just sat there laughing.

And I remember sat-ing, I was sitting there, I'm like, and I s- blurted out, "Fiero prices just went up." But yeah, I think it'd be great to do. I mean, you're the perfect guy because you were in hip hop culture, very [01:50:00] '90s. You were in car culture that were in the '90s. Like, I couldn't think of anyone, there aren't many people that could bring that two together.

Yeah. Because it, it, it would be a culture movie. S- so I'll tell you what- Yeah ... my ultimate dream- Yeah ... would be, is to write And direct Fast and Furious 1- Mm-hmm ... if it was never moved to Los Angeles. Mm-hmm. The New York side, right? The original- Yeah ... New York story- Yeah ... which was based off the Vibe magazine- Yep, yep

article. Han's art- Han's article. I think that, I think doing that- Ah ... justice and, like, really gritty- Sure ... like, the, you know, they, those guys were based in Yonkers, the Bronx- Yep ... running the ha- Like, that was a sketchy time in New York- Sure ... where, like, it, just living in New York was a story. Right. Like, you don't need to be- Yeah

r- you know, robbing international- Sure ... kingpins. Like, you don't need any of that- Yeah ... 'cause just what these guys were doing- Sure ... to pay for their cars- Yep ... and the people that they were around, and all of that is, like, a real true life story- Sure ... that I think would just do well, so. There you go. Yeah. You got, you got one of your next projects.

Yeah, that, that would be great. Well, I think someone owns the IP to it, so they'd have to- [01:51:00] Yeah ... invite me to come do it, but it would- That's true ... it would, may- maybe this will be the- We're, we're, we're, yeah ... this will be what gets it out there. We're, we're making the- You know some people ... we're making the call out there.

Have they ever reached back out to you? Like, have they ever said, "Hey, we'd like you back," or? No, not really. Vin had reached out a couple times. I remember coming to the XXX set when- Oh, cool ... they wrote the script for Fast 2. Yeah. 'Cause Rob Cohen- Mm-hmm ... was the director- Yep ... who became a friend, did XXX with Vin, and I remember going on set, like, "What do you think?

We're thinking it's a one and done." And then I didn't hear from them for a while, and then Vin started his production company where he was doing gaming and cars. Mm-hmm. And he had an IP idea for another, you know, um, property that had him as a, as a driver. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't Fast, and it, this is before he jumped back on.

And that was the last time I had heard from him. Yeah. Um, and, and that was it. You know, Paul and I would talk here and there. Yeah. But Paul wasn't really as involved in, in the production side of things- Yeah ... like Vin was. So I, I've just watched from afar. Yeah. Um, three was Justin's baby. Yep. You know, [01:52:00] Toshi from, who did Apex USA, was the one that consulted on that because, you know, they were friends and they- Yep

they had a different vision which, you know, became Tokyo Drift, which was pretty amazing. So yeah, it was, like, kinda it was a one and done for me, to be honest. Yeah. And it was fun. You know, I enjoyed it. It w- it helped propel my career into this stage of being a consultant for product development and marketing and whatever else I did in that eight to 10 year span.

So it'd be fun to, to kind of jump back in it. Yeah. You know, the r- I still get residuals now, which is crazy. Wait, really? Yeah, 25 years later. Oh. 'Cause Danny Yamato- That's kind of sick, man ... was a character. Mailbox money. Yeah, it's, it's little. It's enough to buy a pair of sneakers or have nice dinner. But it's still 25 years ago, which is crazy to me.

And I know they're gonna launch it in theaters in August. I'm- Mm ... wondering if I get a residual from, from that. I'm assuming I do. Um- Oh, they're bringing the original movie back? Yeah. Like- Kind of like a remastered. Oh, very cool. Yeah, in sometime in August, right around Car Week, I think. Oh, cool. So. Is it coming through, like, is it Being done by the [01:53:00] studio?

I think so. So it'll be everywhere. It's not just, like, what was it, Phantom or whoever does it? Yeah. Fathom or- It's, it's definitely Universal. Okay, very cool. Like, playing up the 25th year anniversary. That's a super smart- Yeah, yeah ... idea from the theater side. Like, I'll go see that in the theaters. Yeah.

That's, I think it's only seven days is what I've read. You know, they've got the roller coasters that are promoting that. Right, right. So they're just milking it. Um, which for me, great, I g- Yeah ... I'll take a little bit of extra money. Is it interesting to you when people talk about how they get into cars now, and a lot of people mention things like- Yeah

Fast and Furious? 'Cause we obviously- It's- ... were in it before that. It's surreal. One of the most surreal moments, I was at Top Rank, a f- they had an open house, and, um, a s- couple friends who had done work for GT Channel, um, Taro and a couple guys from Japan, Ma- Masa and Katsu, um, they've all moved on, right?

Mm-hmm. But they were part of, uh, Best Motoring and Hot Version. So they're here for the Top Rank deal, and they're like, "Hey, RJM, we have a friend [01:54:00] that really wants to meet you who's real- he- do you mind?" I'm like, "All right, cool, like- That doesn't really happen to me anymore. Like, what's the story? Yeah. He's like, "Well," he owns a really big, uh, GTR tuning shop in Japan, it's called Garage Ushida.

Have you heard of it? I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "Well," he didn't know what he wanted to do before he started Garage Ushida. He watched Fast and Furious, and that's what helped him decide that he was gonna do- Hmm ... have a life, you know- Yeah ... kind of, um, modding cars and restoring cars, and he knew you had a big part to do with it, 'cause he had the DVD and, you know, I was in, in the extra section.

Right. He watched the back section. Yeah. The back section. And I was like, "Wow, this is like, that's like," kind of blew my mind a little bit. Yeah. So in that same vein, because we were in the scene before, I didn't, I don't really think of people getting into cars because of the movie. Yeah. More so through, like video games and stuff like that, like we talked about.

But, uh, the movie being, like, that kickoff point- Yeah ... is still very, one, humbling and [01:55:00] surreal to me. Yeah. That it... Because I had a small part to do in launching that franchise, so there's definitely, like, a proud moment there. You, regardless of what you think of the franchise or not, like, having that impact is something that really drives me- Mm-hmm

from, like, a purpose perspective. Um, and so yeah, it's, it's really, for me, it's like, wow, that's amazing. Yeah. Makes me feel real good, like I've done something with my life. It is, it's a really good feeling. Yeah. I, I've, I've won a- I've won awards, I've done all these things. Sure. When someone comes to me and says, like, "Oh, I got into cars 'cause of Gymkhana-" Sure

or because I started watching the Hoonigans. Yeah. I'm like, "Cool. That's awesome." Yeah. Because, like, to think you can usher people into- Man, yeah ... a space. Um, and that was always something that was really important to, I think, both Ken and I. Sure. Ken obviously was into skateboarding. Right. And it was always about, like, bringing the younger group in.

Yeah. But as we were, as I mentioned, in a period where it felt like people were leaving car culture- Sure ... this idea of, like, how do we bring these young kids in? Yeah. Like, how do we get them interested in it? How do you get them excited? How do you get them [01:56:00] excited about it again? Yeah. And it was always about entertainment for us- Mm.

Yeah ... right? Like, how, how you do that. And, like, if there's anything I'm most proud of- It's that ... it's not, like, all the, all the views- Sure ... and everything we- Sure. It was the people who said, "I wasn't really even into this, and these kids- Yeah ... in my school showed it to me. Right. And, like, now I got a Project S13."

I know. It's the best. You're like, "Hell yeah. That's awesome." It's the best. And it's one of- Like, you now have the same addiction. Yeah. I mean, that's the story of my life, right? It's why I'm at SEMA- Yeah ... at the end of the day. You know? We're, we're the people behind the people behind the people. Yeah. It's a Swinger's club.

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have the guy behind the guy. The guy behind the guy behind the guy. Yeah. And, and my, my- trajectory in my career is, is, is m- you know, I talked about it earlier. It's like how do I get people involved? How do I get people excited- Yeah ... about this thing that I love, this thing that you love, right?

You know, and you can see that there's, there's a true point, um, thing that we both have, you know, in the, in the, in the things that we've worked on, the projects that we've put out there. And for me, SEMA's kind of that, that entity that's been [01:57:00] there the whole time. Yeah. You know, and it's more business- I-

oriented, right? But, you know. I, I'm really curious about the SEMA thing because I have sat on a couple different, like, task groups- Sure ... and things for SEMA. Um, you know, and those were, for me, they were all unpaid. I did them because I really care- Yeah ... and I want the community to do better. So I did, like, a media and communications task group.

Yeah. Um, I worked with Mike in the past before he was president- Sure ... on, you know, how we deal, and this was when takeovers were earlier- Sure ... but, like, how we deal with some of that stuff and, and, you know, and, and different things along that. Um, because I care, like, I love this culture. It's a community.

Yeah. It's something like it's the give back piece of- Sure ... like keep this going. And I will admit there's always been a part of me that has questioned, like, do I eventually end up at SEMA? Right? And I don't mean that- A lot, yeah ... like in a bad way, but, like, I could see that where- Sure ... where value ends there, right?

Yeah. So, and, and, and I do wanna actually talk about the Meguiar days, 'cause I was really surprised that you were at Meguiar's for so long. Me too. Because you, 'cause you did, you were doing so many things. Sure. You had, like, a wheel company. [01:58:00] Yeah. You, like you had die cast stuff. You were doing so many things.

Yeah. And then you're like, "I'm gonna go spend," whatever, a decade at Meguiar's- Yeah ... which seemed like a, seemed different from your initial trajectory. Sure. But we can go back to that. Well, we're on the SEMA thing now. Yeah. What attracted you to go to SEMA and kinda to, to do that? Yeah, so I'd been at Meguiar's 3M really.

Yeah. Um, cutting my teeth, learning kind of, you know, publicly traded life, you know, thir- Big corporate. Yeah, big corporate. Big corporate. 95,000 employees, sold in- God ... 100 plus companies. And so I stayed at Meguiar/3M because I was learning so much about global business and- Yeah ... how global business run in a multi-100 million, multi-billion, tens of billions, uh, perspective, and I didn't feel like- I m- I might not ever get that experience again.

Right. Right? And so I thought I'd be at Meguiar's 3M for two years. You know, the recession hit, all my stuff fell apart- Mm-hmm ... 'cause everything that was a, an extra program got cut, [01:59:00] and Meguiar's was a client. They offered me a position to do some wrap stuff, um, and that's how I started. And then I ended up having a boss who just gave me s- like, o- opportunity after opportunity, and then I started to dig into understanding the business that goes behind what it takes to build a multi-hundred million dollar company- Yeah

a multi-billion dollar company, and that really was just so engaging for me. And then I got to a point where I, I'd lived the movie thr- three, four times over, and I was like, "What's next?" You know? And so I interviewed, maybe after, like, year six or seven, multiple times, OEMs, other places, and nothing seemed to fit.

And then the SEMA opportunity came, and I actually... A friend of mine said, worked there, like, "Hey, um, our, our VP of marketing left." Mm-hmm. I'm like, "Oh yeah, I saw that. Let me..." And i- it was a good friend. I'm like, "Let me spread the word. Let me help find someone." And that person said, "No, RJ, I wanna recommend you."

And I was like, "No, I'm good." You know, I had stock options- Yeah ... golden handcuffs. I'm like, "I'm good. I'm, I'm not leaving this place." Yeah. And she's like, "No, [02:00:00] RJ, you, you've been coming to SEMA, you know, since, uh, whatever, like, 20-plus years." I'm almost at 30. Um- You know this, like, you love the industry. Yeah. You could do some good here.

And I, I thought about that, and I'd done some work with a life coach, career coach, about, like, finding my purpose at, at that time. Or no, just before then, and I was kind of reverting back to, like, well, what is my purpose, right? And, and at that... Uh, by this point in my life, I'd decided my purpose was to help people build better versions of themselves- Mm-hmm

which included organizations, which included myself. Um, and then I thought about the SEMA opportunity, and then I ended up meeting with, um, Chris, uh, Chris, who was the CEO at the time- Mm-hmm ... learning a little bit more of what their goals were. Um, and then it kind of fizzled out, and then Mike became CE- you know, was kind of interim CEO, and so he called me.

He's like, "Hey, are you still interested?" And I said, "K- kind of," you know? And then I had a great meeting with him, and just really thought about, like, what SEMA does- Mm-hmm ... for the industry, and I was like, to your point, like, there's, there's a piece [02:01:00] that's like, I, I at least have to spend some time here- Yeah

to see what I could do to help, you know, protect, prolong, spread this, this industry that we both grew up in, you know? And for those listening who only think of SEMA as the- As the show ... SEMA Show- Yeah ... and realize that that's just a, like, a really small percentage- Yeah ... can you just give a real small nutshell of, like, everything SEMA does?

Sure. So SEMA's a nonprofit, one. Not a lot of people realize- Mm-hmm ... it's a nonprofit, and the nonprofit's goal is to fo- just to foster the success of the aftermarket, right? Most people see that through the SEMA Show or the PRI Show, and that's the organization giving an opportunity for manufacturers to meet with buyers, or manufacturers to get exposure for new products.

Um, and it's become its own juggernaut. Mm-hmm. Both shows have their own audiences. Behind that, and that generates most of the money that we then reinvest back into the industry. And so we have a lot of other programs that are more investment pillars. So as an example, SEMA Garage, you talked about it [02:02:00] earlier, that M- Mike Spagnola, our CEO, came to SEMA out of retirement to start that 10 years ago, or whatever it was.

And the Garage really helps with product development. Mm-hmm. You know, you wanna 3D scan something, you want CAD data for a particular vehicle because you wanna create a, uh, a prototype. You want to, um, you created an exhaust or an intake, and you need to run it through emissions compliance testing- Mm-hmm

and get the paperwork, um, filled out for CARB. We do all of that. But we, we pretty much operate that at a, at a loss- Yeah ... because we want the rates to be favorable to the industry. So that's one big part. And didn't you guys just... I just read something the other day, like, there's some new thing that passed that now- So-

the government's allowing you guys to actually CARB approve, right, or something? We have, um, a thing called SEMA Certified- Right, that's what- ... where we take the testing rules that CARB applies and EPA applies to be compliant for- Yeah ... emissions compliance, and we created something s- called SEMA Certified.

The EPA just announced that they will accept that as, um- [02:03:00] A good enough- Right ... to be EPA 49 state compliant. We're still working on a new bill in California that recognizes SEMA cert as proof to also be CARB compliant- Oh, in California ... which is huge. Yeah. Which is huge. So that's one part that, um, some people know about- Yeah

but not everyone. And, and for those listening, like if you run a small company and you're trying- Yeah ... to make things that the EPA regulate, nowadays it's almost impossible. It's, it's hard. Like in the mid- It's expensive. But you guys are making it a lot easier for that, where- Right ... 'cause like in the 2000s, like everybody was making everything.

Yeah. It was a lot more sort of loose. Well, and, and peo- Right? They weren't cracking down as much. They weren't cracking down. Yeah. So even if it was illegal, you could just be like, "Off road use only," and everyone got by on that. Yeah. Yeah. But now they're cracking down on it a lot more. Yeah. So it's, that's one part's product development.

Another side is SEMA's product distribution. Mm-hmm. So we have a division called SEMA Data where we standardize people's product data so that if you're a small manufacturer, a, a big, um, online store, whether it's a JEGS [02:04:00] or a Summit or an Amazon- Yeah ... or an AutoZone, can intake your data and sell it. Yep.

Again, another thing that isn't the cheapest thing in the world to do, so we just make it accessible. Yeah. So that's another thing that SEMA is really big and known for. Yeah. The government advocacy. You guys also, like will measure new cars, so like- Yeah, that's in SEMA Garage. Yeah ... the SEMA Garage part, 'cause I remember talking to Mike about that, which, which is again- Yeah

if you're a small up and coming- Yeah ... designer- You don't have access ... you lose two- Yeah ... or three years in development because only a few people get invited- Yeah ... to go see what the new Ford Mustang- Well, they have- ... is gonna be or something ... they have to buy one usually. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So we work with the OEMs to get access to, to the manufacturers to do measurements, test fitting- Yeah

before even the vehicle- Before it even releases ... co- comes out. Yeah. So that way when it comes out and, and at, they're at SEMA, they already- Yeah ... have the new part for the latest Bronco- Yeah ... 4Runner, Mustang. Supra, GT- Yeah, yeah ... you know, whatever- Whatever ... whatever it is. So- So what is your day-to-day like at SEMA now?

It's madness. [02:05:00] It's madness. Um, because, you know, as the marketing VP, I basically lead a team of individuals that's like an internal agency- Yeah ... much like Enotion is for- Got it. Yeah, for Hyundai ... for, uh, for Hyundai. Um, and so every day, there's about 30 s- or so stakeholders that we serve. So every day, my hat's just trying to you know, kind of guide the madness that- Yeah

we as an internal team have to serve all these business units, um, in terms from a marketing and communications perspective. A lot of my time does get focused on SEMA Show, SEMA Fest, uh, membership, the things that create revenue, because those, that's, we need that to be able to function and to do all the things that we do, whether- Yep

it's SEMA Garage, SEMA Data. We have a huge volunteer program, the things that you were a part of, and councils and networks, where for different segments of the industry, like truck or off-road or automotive restoration or, you know, Future Leaders Network, um, we do, we offer all these events where you can network and build yourself up or build your business up.

[02:06:00] And so all of that costs money, right? Yeah. And so we need to continue to generate more money to do even more, along with the stuff that we're doing on the government advocacy side. We're a huge part to the, um, the reversal of the EV mandate, right? And, and having the choice p- you know, in 2030 to not be forced to buy only EV.

Yeah. Right? Whatever it's gonna be, hydrogen, synthetic fuel- Yep ... you know, EV. I mean, EV's a part of it, you know, plug-in, plug-in hybrid. So that was a big part. We spent quite a bit of money doing that. Which reminds me- Yeah ... I texted Mike like two weeks ago, and I was like, "Dude, I have a g- really good idea- Yeah

to get more, like, SEMA Action Network stuff out there." Sure. And he was like, "Cool, let's set up a call," and I never did. You did, yeah. So Mike, if you're listening- Yeah ... call me, 'cause I've got a really good idea. Well, I, uh- 'Cause I think not enough people know about sort of what you guys are doing- Sure ... in the lobbying side- Yeah

'cause that's really important for the community. Sure. We all sit, we all bitch and moan on Instagram about this- Yeah. Yeah ... and s- you know, the, "I got this and I got [02:07:00] state raft." And it's like, yeah, but, like, you complaining on the internet isn't gonna help, but us as a collective- Yeah ... group- Yeah ... with lobbying behind it- Sure

will actually help. Yeah. You know? Government, our government affairs teams has a saying, "No spaces, no races." Mm-hmm. Right? If you don't have the space, like a racetrack to- Yep ... to race, like- A, a lot of that then starts to die down, you know? Mm-hmm. And then, uh, and then the, the bu- the businesses cease to exist- Yeah

and, and the whole- And it's, it's still like a 50, what, $8 billion business or something? Uh- Where's it at now? Over, like, 52, 53 billion. Yeah, yeah. And then the economic impact is cra- Yeah ... like $337 billion or something- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... crazy like that. So, so we're an industry that gets noticed. The, that's the great thing about our government affairs team is they've really reinforced a lot of the data that's out there.

Like, we affect 1.3 million jobs, as an example. Mm-hmm. And so when politicians hear that, they stand up and go- Yeah, yeah ... "Oh. Oh, okay, we're gonna listen." Yeah. Um, and so it's, it's, you know, you feel very, I myself feel, feel very proud to be part of this organization that's fighting the good fight. Yeah. Know [02:08:00] if I'll stay there forever?

I said that when I was at 3M. I thought I'd stay for two. I was there for 12. I'm on year four or five, completely enjoying what I'm doing, still learning. SEMA Fest, as an example, is I never thought I'd be a promoter of a, a concert- Yeah ... you know, music festival. I was there 'cause I helped do the first one.

Yeah, you guys were there. And it was a lot of fun. Thank you. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. We still use the photo of, of the Mustang a lot. Sweet, sweet. Uh- And hopefully the car, uh, um, w- we, he, like, jumped over the ca- Yes ... the, jumped over the motor home. Oh. But he, like, rotated midair. Yeah. So he was, like, through the roof.

He was like, yeah, it was- That's, uh- He basically kick-flipped the car ... that's, uh, Gabby Downing's, uh, boyfriend at the time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Jim York. Jim York. Jim York. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So still learning. Yeah. Uh, well, finally in a groove, 'cause the first one w- we were just drinking out of a fire hose.

Yeah, it was crazy. Like, no, no tomorrow. Yeah. But- My ultimate moment, by the way- Yeah ... at that event, and for those, uh, SEMA Fest was this festival, like a music festival- Yeah ... with cars that was sort of adjacent to SEMA. SEMA, yeah. So it kicked off on, like, Friday right before. Yes. [02:09:00] It was weird 'cause I had actually already left Hoonigan, but the concept- Oh, you came back

for doing SEMA Fest- Yep ... was this idea that we'd been talking about with you guys. Sure. I remember when you first came on- Yep ... you showed up at Hoonigan. Yep, yep. I'm like, "What are you doing here?" Yeah. You're like, "I work for SEMA now." Right. And we had been talking about wanting to do something with you guys forever, so I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna stay for, I'm gonna stay on to do that."

Sure. I hadn't announced I'd left yet. Um, but the best m- part of it the whole time was Bush went on. Uh-huh. And we got, like, our, our schedule was off. Oh, love it. So we were still putting on this, like- Sure ... crazy show with, like, cars flipping- Yep ... and all this stuff, and apparently Gavin from Bush asked if we could shut up.

And I was like, that was like, and then every- That was the moment ... and, and then we heard it on our side. Sure. And because he used to date, um, what's her face from No Doubt, uh, Gwen Stefani- Gwen, yeah ... everyone just started chanting, "Team Gwen, Team Gwen." I was like, "This is just a fun pop culture moment- Right, right, right

right now," so yeah. I, I just saw the 311- Yeah ... was there 'cause I, I secretly w- Are you a big 311 fan? Not a big one. I'm a secret 311 fan- Oh ... which is now no longer a secret 'cause I just said it on a pod. Right, you just said it, yep. [02:10:00] But I, yeah, you know, I, it's one of the things. I'm like, I kinda like 311. Yeah.

Yeah. We just did the announce yesterday, so Offspring's the headliner. Yep. Jimmy Eat World, 311- Yeah ... and The Alive. Yeah. So we're excited about the lineup. I'm personally more of a hip hop guy. Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's a little bit f- you know, detached, but- Have you guys not gotten- Yeah ... any hip hop for that?

Not since the first one. Yeah. You know, we had Luda- Yep, I remember that ... and Wiz Khalifa. Yep. That first one. But our, our crowd really loves rock music and, and- Makes sense ... punk rock, and that's what makes sense. Yeah. Especially since we moved it to the SEMA Show campus and there's only, like, three or four bands.

Yeah. And it's only one day. It just what makes sense. Yeah. It sells tickets, you know? Do you remember back in the day when W used to do the concert at SEMA? Yes. Yeah. That was always good. Yeah, that was always good. That was, like, mid-2000s. And then they moved to the beach and- Yeah ... the club and stuff. Yeah.

So it's, it's really exciting. My day Circling back to his question, is, it's just full of meetings. I'll be in- ... eight, eight to 10 to 12 me- I'm- Ugh ... today I told my, my team, like- Maybe I don't wanna ever work at Seema Yeah. So I w- I, so the fun- the, the funny part of it was when I left 3M, our inside [02:11:00] joke at 3M, it stood for meetings, meetings, meetings.

As you can imagine- Mm ... multinational company, right? Yeah. 90,000 employees, you're in meetings all the time. Yeah. And all over 3:00 AM, 3:00 PM, 9:00 PM- Yeah ... because you're like, "Oh, it's a call with China. It's a call with the UK," whatever it is. So I left thinking, "Oh, thank God I can let go of that." And then I got to Seema, it's like it's just as bad.

I have this app idea. Yeah. And, uh, if anyone listening decides that they wanna, like, you know, make it themselves, like vibe coding it or whatever, uh, just k- give me, like, 10%. I wanna make an app where it plugs into, like, Zoom, Teams- Uh-huh ... Google, and it takes everyone's salary, and it shows- Just oh yeah, how much

how much per minute the meeting is costing us. It is costing. Because I think we would have less meetings- Yes ... when people went, "Oh my. Look at how much- Yeah ... this meeting is costing us for everyone, for these 13 people to be in the room." Yeah. Mike Spagnola, our CEO, he, he'll do that actually. Oh, really? Yeah.

Yeah, he's, he's, like, super financially, uh, minded and frugal. Oh, good. Yeah. That's just the way he runs things. Yeah. He'll stop sometimes, and he's like, "This [02:12:00] is costing us a lot of money." Yeah. Like, "Let's wrap up," you know? Like so. It's true. Yeah. It's like, sometimes like, "Why are we all here?" Yeah. "We don't need to do this."

So. It's, it's pervasive and, and, and, and we're not even that large of an organization, but- Mm-hmm ... because we, we, we... I think most organizations wanna be a collaboration culture- Yeah ... that you end up having way too many people in the meeting. Yeah. "Well, I'd like to keep informed." It's like, well, you, you'll get the meeting notes.

You don't need to be in a meeting, you know? So can I hit you with some hard Seema Shah questions? Sure. How are you... And I, I, this was a task force I sat on. Okay. So I, I know a little of the internal. But, you know, I think there's this really delicate line that the show lives- Sure ... where part of it is that you are in, you know, you're literally a manufacturer's association that is a non-profit that is- Sure

funded by these manufacturers. But you're also probably the most important car show in the world, right? Yeah. My, my, my- And- ... VP of events would, would like roll his eyes, because he doesn't see it as a car show. But it is. But it is. Yeah. It's both. Like, we- Yeah ... like, every influencer, every [02:13:00] creator- Yeah ... is building a car that- Yes

will end up at the SEMA Show. There, yes. There is an entire cottage industry- Yes ... of money being spent- Yep ... to f- to program- Yeah ... YouTube content- Yeah ... and Instagram content- The, the cars are the stars ... to release cars- Yeah ... at SEMA. If, if you only showed parts, if you guys banned cars- It'd be, it'd be different

it would feel like- It'd be different ... yeah. I mean, it would be closer- The, and, and- ... I guess, to, like, Apex or something. Yeah. But, like, where it doesn't- The energy wouldn't be there ... it wouldn't be the energy. Yeah. And- Different energy ... but there's- It would be business energy only ... but there's a, but there's, like, I know that this is a huge fight- Sure

internally, because some manufacturers just really want it to be- B2B ... a B2B. Yeah. And the show has been going the other way now. Like, Fridays have, like- Sure. It's open to the public ... open, open to the public. Yep. You've got SEMA Fest. Yeah. Things like that. I have always been, obviously, helping you guys do- Sure

the burn yard out front- Sure ... and all of that, that kind of thing. I see the value of this being really exciting to the industry. Sure. And I think it's this cool thing that people want to come to. Sure. I think it's great that people print their own badges and [02:14:00] steal badges- Yeah, yeah ... and do everything. I'm gonna close my eyes.

Yeah. No, but I- Yeah ... it's good. You want something that people- Yes ... want to sneak into. Into, yeah. Right? I mean, that's- Yeah ... a good thing. I know it's bad from that side. Yes. But you, the fact that this is this thing that- We used to kind of give, like, a golden ticket to SEMA- Right ... where people would get to win a chance to come- SE- yeah

and go to SEMA, and, like, meet, you know, Ken Block. Sure. And, like, for them, it was just as exciting to walk the SEMA floo- floor as it was to hang out with- Sure ... Ken Block for, whatever, 20 minutes. Yeah. Because it felt... I mean, I remember my first SEMA, which was 2003 or 2004. Right. And it was, like, crazy to see- Yeah

this thing that used to only be two pages in a magazine or- Sure ... three pages in a magazine. Yeah. And you're like, "Oh, my God, it takes, like, three days to walk this thing," right? It's hard to explain to anyone that's never gone, right? Yeah. Much like Car Week or Festival of Speed or Tokyo Auto Salon, it's, it's like, it's just a mecca.

Yeah. You know? But so a- as someone who's- Yeah ... on the marketing side of it- Sure ... how do you parse this? Like, the, the what a lot of the, the manufacturers- Sure ... and the people who are part of the organization- Yeah ... want it to be, versus, [02:15:00] like, the- It's- ... the element that- I mean, yeah ... it has become the ultimate display for car builds.

It's a tough balance, for sure, and I would say it's shifting, more so now in the last five years than ever before, where pre-pandemic, I would say most, and I was, I wasn't there yet. Yeah. But most of the data from the exhibitors said, "We don't want it to be a public day. We want it to only be B2B," some, some crazy percentage.

Mm-hmm. This is when I was on the task force. Yeah. So I remember that. Yeah, and then it, it started to shift be- partly because of the pandemic. More exhibitors became open to a public day, because they had a- all, many of them, not all, had to build a D2C business. Mm-hmm. And so now the idea of talking to a c- like, a end customer- Right

wasn't as, as off-putting. It's still a tough challenge for us. Mm-hmm. It's still 50/50, where, like, 50% are like, "Yeah." Yeah. "All week public," you know, or, "Two days public," whatever it's gonna be. And, and another 50% like, [02:16:00] "No, let's keep it B2B. I'm, I'm a two-step or three-step distribution business where I don't sell direct to consumer."

Right. "I sell to a wholesaler or a jobber." So that's the toughest balance that we as an organization are trying to juggle. From the marketing side, we have different campaigns for different things. So we have a campaign to, uh, to, to prove the value of the show to anybody that's an exhibitor. We have a campaign to prove the value to anyone that's an, a, an attendee, whether you're a buyer or you're media or you're a content creator or something else.

Um, and then we have a different campaign if you're just an enthusiast, right? And, and you can come for open to the, open to the public day on Friday, and cap it off with the, the SEMAfest concert. So that's our best way of trying to juggle. Larry was just in our office yesterday. Mm. Larry Chen, who's our artist of the show right now, and he's like Same as you, like why, why, why isn't public day two days or all week?

Like, you know. Yeah. And I, I would say certain halls- I s- I also get it though- Yeah ... because as someone who would [02:17:00] get, like, just, you know, people are like, "Oh, can you sponsor me?" Yeah. "Can I get this free?" Like, your marketing guys end up spending a lot of time dealing with the public- Yeah, yeah ... which, like, really isn't industry related.

Right. And you end up having to deal with that. And the other one, which I hate to say, but it is true, is, like, all of a sudden, like, loss prevention, all these things become- Yeah ... a bigger problem- They do, yeah ... when you have more of, like, an open space- Yeah ... and it's not just industry. I mean, uh, yes and no because ours, our open to the public ticket is not a $10 Auto Show ticket.

Right, right. Right? You're like a l- pretty much 100 bucks plus. Yeah, yeah. So you c- you really have to wanna go. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause it's not like a small amount. Yeah. Will you still have more challenges? Of course. I think it's really up to the exhibitors to Look at themselves, look in the mirror, and be like, "Well, we go to all these other events."

You just gotta change your hat. Right. Right? Like, if, if it's not a person with a shop or a WDNs, an end customer, like, "Oh, you're really interested in that part?" Right. "Where do you live? Oh, you can go to this shop, or you can buy online here." Yeah. Unless they have their own online, um, [02:18:00] solution, uh, 'cause, uh, many of them do now.

So I- uh, part- part of it is just in, in the hands of the industry because our VP of events, Tom Gattuso, his famous words around the SEMA show is, "We're just a reflection of the industry." Right. So as the industry moves there, we move there. Yeah. Sometimes we move one step ahead. We don't- we can't move five steps ahead because we need this relationship between the exhibitor, the attendee- Yeah

whether it's business or enthusiasts- Yeah ... to, uh, continue to exist. And if you get it to be too one-sided, you lose the other. Yeah. And look, the need for SEMA has completely changed for the manufacturer, right? Yes. 20 years ago, you were showing up- Yeah ... you were doing orders, you were literally doing the- Yeah

business, right? It was all distribution. It was everyone- Yeah ... was doing their year- Yeah ... worth of distribution and all of that, and doing a lot of their deals. Yeah. And even in the magazine era- Yeah ... we would sell most of our advertising, like on- Sure ... the SEMA floor. Like, there was a quota- Sure ... for the ad guys, like Gordon Tang- Yeah.

and people like that. And I think that's how [02:19:00] you and I actually first met. I was thinking about that on the floor. Probably a rides party or something. Yeah. Yeah, something like that. You know, like, had to sell a certain number of pages- Mm-hmm ... while we were at SEMA. Mm-hmm. I don't think that's true anymore. I think it's- It's different

now become a presentation that actually, and I think rightfully so, is developed and created for social media, because- Yes ... that expands- Yeah ... what you're doing. So it's like- If, if you're smart about it ... if you're smart about it. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause there is still a very real part to the business side. Yeah, for sure.

Especially if you're a new company, yet you don't have distribution, you still use the SEMA show. Yeah. Like, you wanna meet buyers, right? And there's a ton of that that happens, especially if it's a new company- Yep ... or there's a new product. The thing that's really elevated it from a marketing and branding perspective is the reach of digital.

You know, before magazines came and we- Yeah ... would meet with editors. And when I was at Meguiar's, and then, and when I was the steward, and actually, that group reported to me, and we were spending astronomical amounts of money to have three different activations, but it was really, we didn't need any more [02:20:00] distribution.

Yeah. Like, by the time we, when Meguiar's got to SEMA, they knew exactly what products would be on the shelves of- Mm-hmm ... AutoZone, Walmart, O'Reilly, whoever. We used it as a, a platform to launch new items. Mm-hmm. And when digital media became even bigger, it became even more important for us to leverage, you know, um, kind of meet and greets with media that would then shoot video right there- Yeah

and, and content creators, and all of these things that before 2014, '15 wasn't there. Yeah. And now, like, if you're a smart exhibitor that has some maturity- Like SEMA is one of the best platforms to use because also just the search volume of that week is insane- Mm-hmm ... because the events going on, much like there's a great search volume for hyper car and exotic car stuff- Yeah

during Car Week, and other things for Festival of Speed, and there's these like tent pole moments in the year, you know? When we were at Hoonigan, we did a show called, uh, the One Hour SEMA Special. Mm-hmm. And we would get our [02:21:00] overnight pass. Sure. So we got to walk the show- Yeah ... when no one was there. And it would kill the editors because we would, you know, make an hour- Yeah

long show that they had to edit that week. Yeah. It had to come out that week. Sure. You know, at the end of the week, um, or it had to come out, you know, the Monday after at the absolute latest. And, um, you know, the editors and the producers were always like, "Why does this have to come out so quickly?" Yeah.

And I'm like, "Because right now everyone's searching SEMA." Searching for it. And it would do a million views every time- Right ... because people wanted to see- Yes ... have the SEMA experience. Yeah. And they got to have that by us walking them around the show. Right. And it's like that wouldn't do well a month later because that- Not as well.

Not as well. Yeah. It would still do, but like, but that moment, everyone's talking about SEMA, as someone who used to constantly- Sure ... launch films at the back half of the year. Mm-hmm. We would never launch a film at SEMA. We did it once. Right. But we realized that the There was so much noise coming out of SEMA that it wasn't good for us Didn't you, like, start doing it a week before?

So, so what we would do is we would do it the week before- Right ... so that way we would ride second week into [02:22:00] SEMA- Yep ... and there'd be all this excitement about it. Yeah, yeah. And now, like, Toyo's got, you know, BJ Baldwin's truck hanging- Sure ... or the Hoonicorn, and now everyone had seen it- Yeah ... and then there's, like, a second hit- Wave, yeah

that we would get it. Or we would announce the film was coming at SEMA, do a party, and then, like- Launch it after ... but then it wouldn't come out for, like, another two weeks, 'cause it literally sucks all the- Yeah ... air out of the space. Yeah. And that, that's a great thing, right? It's a great thing. You know? And, and- But SEMA should know

as a marketer, it's one of those things that it's like use it for what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? It's a platform. Yeah. So that's what I, when I meet brands now, and we talk about it, you know, because of my history with the show, I mean, my first show, I, f- oddly enough, I went to Tokyo Auto Salon and the SEMA show for the first time- Oh, really?

in '97, and I've, haven't stopped. If I remember correctly, the Tokyo Auto Salon was, like, how you first started with Super Street, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They were like, "Hey, go do this thing." Well, I told them they had to go. They didn't have budget, so they gave me film to shoot it. And I wasn't a shooter, and I'm like, "This is gonna suck."

And they're like, "If it sucks, we won't use it." And then I came [02:23:00] back, and we developed the slide film, and it was ... And Matt was like, "This is good enough." He's like, "Can you write a story?" I'm like, "I'm a, I'm an engineering student." And he's like, "That's what we have copy editors for." That started my career- ... at Super Street.

But I went to SEMA the end of that year in '97, and I've watched it through- Yeah ... all of its phases. But, um, and I've been editor, car builder, small company selling body kits, you know, big company selling car wax, now production. You just gotta look at it as what's, how do I use it as a platform for whatever I need to do?

And that's the smart way to look at SEMA. Yeah. You know, because if you get, like, pigeonholed into one story, like, oh, I don't need it for that. Well, it's like, yeah, because you've already done that. Like, use it for a different reason. And I think that's where some people get stuck. Yeah. Like, you know, like, "Oh, I don't know why, if I should still go to the SEMA Show."

Like, you just gotta be smart how you use it, so. Were you involved in the, like Creator of the Year project and all of that? A little bit. Yeah. You know, that was more of a steering committee- Okay ... to your point. Yeah. Um, I was aware of it. We, dur- you know, [02:24:00] most of the steering committees don't have anyone from staff.

Yep. It's meant to be- Yep ... done by volunteers. So I knew about the people- That's why it was called steering committee. Yeah. I knew about all the people that got nominated- Yeah ... year one. Uh, I hosted the table actually- Yep ... which was really weird, because there was gonna be one winner. And so I had made a recommendation after the second year to not have all these nominees- Oh

'cause th- then everyone just feels like the first loser. Yeah, yeah. Especially if they've been nominated- Well, it's 'cause they are. ... a couple times. So now it's just, we just have a winner. Yeah. Um, and it was Westen this last year. Yep. So I'm really curious to see who it is, and I never learn until, like a week before.

Yeah. Like, staff is really... It's, I think it's part of the bylaws that it's kind of like- Yeah, makes sense. Yeah ... we're, we're kind of kept out of that so we don't sway it in any way. I just, I just bring it up because I, I would say that one of my critiques of SEMA a few years back- Mm-hmm ... was that creators couldn't get badges.

Oh, yeah. Like, there was no way in for them- Sure ... because they weren't traditional media. Media. Oh, we've changed that. Yeah. If they weren't associated to a company like Hoonigan- Right ... they weren't getting in. Sure. So, like, we'd [02:25:00] be talking to guys who were, like, really big in YouTube- Yeah ... and I'd be like, "Oh, you're going to SEMA?"

And they're like, "I can't get a badge." Yeah. You're like, "What?" Yeah. So it was cool to see sort of not only a reversal of that- No, we've really leaned in ... but then, like, an embrace of the- For sure ... of the space around that. I mean, we, we love even letting creators who have 1,000 followers- Yeah ... in, because it helps build their page.

As long as they're creating good car content- Yeah, yeah, yeah ... we're gonna, we're gonna let you in. Yeah. You know? Um, if you're not, even if you're huge- Yeah ... we may actually not let you in- Yeah ... um, from a media perspective. Yeah. But we've really embraced it. I mean, I think there's about 2,500 people that sign up, that get through, um, approved as media.

About 1,500 are some sort of digital creator. Mm-hmm. Where they're, they're creating content on social or on a blog or whatever it is, and that's a huge percentage, right? I forget if it was last year- Yeah ... or two years ago, I went to SEMA. I went, I went in for just a day- Mm-hmm ... or a day and a half, and, uh, I'd been going for [02:26:00] 20 years.

Mm-hmm. And it just didn't occur to me that I didn't have a badge. Like, I literally drove- Yeah ... to Vegas. Right. I got there, and then I went, "Wait, I'm, like, not here with anybody." Right, right. Like, I had never not been there- Okay ... as part of an organization- Yeah ... a production company or whatever. And I, like, just texted Mike.

Yeah. I'm like, "Uh, can I get a badge?" Yeah, yeah. He went to the show office probably. He was like, he was like, literally, like, opening day. He's like, "I cannot believe you- Yeah, yeah ... don't have this sorted." Love that, yeah. I'm like, "I don't actually currently work for a company." How was that feeling? It was kind of- Because like you had, I think you sold and then you left, right?

Yeah, yeah. So I, I sold- And you were kind of a- ... I sold Hoonigan almost ex- almost five years ago now. Okay. Stayed for two years, left, and then I left the industry 'cause I had a non-compete. Okay. So I went to work for Superplastic, and they made like, um, kinda like a Kid Ro- actually, the guy who started Kid Robot- Okay

started Superplastic. Ah. So it was like they were in the vinyl- Sure ... toy space- Right ... like collectible space, but they also did animation stuff. Right. So I was helping them- Got it ... produce and build out animations, and like I did this, um, ex- experience at Area15 for them- [02:27:00] Okay ... called Dopameme, and like all these different things.

Um, so I was doing that at the time. Sure. So I was completely out of automotive. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah. How did, what, I, I don't, like- I try to think about, like, if that ever happened to me, like walking in- Yeah ... and not being tied to anything on auto. Yeah, it was kind of- Like, what was that feeling like?

It was kind of w- it was actually a nice year. Okay. Um- Did you just like- First off, as some- All- Yeah, as someone who has done the Saturday to Sunday- Right ... SEMA run- Which is, which is grueling ... multiple years. Yeah, which is grueling. I mean, I did it my whole time at Rides- Sure ... and Zero to 60, and I did it a lot at Hoonigan, 'cause we'd be launching things- Right

or when we started doing Burn Yard, we were- Sure ... were moving in on Friday before, right? And now all of a sudden I show up and I'm, like, just in and out for the day or in and out for- Right ... two days. Like, it's actually not enough time. Okay. You need more than 48 hours- Yeah. Hours, yeah ... to walk the show. If you wanna walk the show.

Especially if it's, like, you and I, we're like- Sure ... we know so many people. Yeah. It's a huge reunion. Sure. You're catching up with all these friends. Sure. Um, but it was actually re- I had no business there. Yeah. Which was- Yeah ... amazing. Yeah. 'Cause it's [02:28:00] people are like, "What are you doing here?" Yeah. "Like, what are you..."

I'm like, "I'm just here." Yeah. "I'm just here 'cause I've been here for 20 years- Yeah ... and I don't know what to, else to do with November." This time of year, yeah. Yeah, like, I'm just here 'cause it'd be weird not to be here. Not to be, yeah. Pandemic year was- Yeah ... really odd. Yeah, yeah. That I, I was like, "I don't, I don't know what to do this week."

Yeah. I mean, granted, you couldn't do a whole lot. You're like, "I guess I'm gonna celebrate Halloween." Yeah. It was, it was really odd. I, I, I've, I've gone through the r- right? Uh-huh. Like, when you do SEMA for long enough, and you maybe can agree 'cause you work there now, you get to this point where you start saying you hate SEMA.

Mm. Do you know, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. Right? Like, and when I say, I mean the show. Right. Right? Because it feels like this thing you have to go do. Sure. Um, I definitely had a little moment of that in my life. Okay. But I've had a lot of fun at SEMA. Yeah, me too. Like, the parties, like, getting to- Yeah

see all your friends. Especially being East Coast for so long. Sure. It was that one time a year that I got to see everybody. Yeah. I met a lot of- It was the coming together ... you guys- It was the home- homecoming ... in that area. Yeah. So it was like, I met, first time I ever met Nads- Right ... was when he was doing Rice Boy TV.

Okay, yep. And I'm, like, sitting with him in- Sure ... you know, [02:29:00] in the media space, right? Yeah. So, like, I always loved that part of it, and I still, um, and I, I, I wanna choose my words 'cause I don't wanna sound like, "Oh, I'm so famous," but one of the things I l- I dislike about SEMA now is it's very hard for me to walk through SEMA- Oh, yeah

and enjoy it- 'Cause you get recognized ... 'cause I get recognized. Yeah. Um, I l- my first couple years there I would do, like, all the main days, and then, you know- Right ... usually Thursday, like, the marketing guys disappear, and my favorite thing was on Friday, I would just walk- Walk around, yeah ... the show, and just, like, really become a kid again.

Sure. And, like, look at how they did that latch- Yeah ... or wh- or that- Sure ... or this new product. Sure. And, and just really enjoy it as- Yep ... like, a consumer more than as, like, a PR person in the industry. Or the business side, which happens a lot. Um, and I, I try to get those. Yeah. And that's why I would always get the night pass.

Yeah, yeah. 'Cause on the night pass you get to walk- You could see everything ... but you don't get to talk to people. Yeah. But you get to see a lot of things. But the last, the last couple times I've gone I haven't had- Real business there Sure That's great Yeah, yeah, yeah It's great 'cause you just kind of walk around It's catching up with everyone You catch up, you do this, you do that That, that's me at- And [02:30:00] it's, it's really just a car show again, you know?

That's me at Car Week. Oh, yeah. I've seen that. And at Auto Salon. Auto Salon is a little bit of work, but- Yeah Yeah You know, I've never actually, this is gonna be crazy to say- You haven't been to Auto Salon? I've never been to Japan. Oh my God. I'm going to Japan in three weeks. Oh. My first time ever. Um, but- I'm g- I'm, I wanna talk to you afterwards

I've never been, I've never been, and one of the reasons I've never been is, one, I don't fit in the cars. Okay. But I have always worked in groups where there was someone else more interested in- Oh, going ... in the Japanese side. Okay. So, like, guys like Herb- Sure ... or when I was at Zero to 60, there were other writers who- Sure

w- either knew it better- Yeah ... or knew the space better. So I would always send them, and in my head, I always thought the opportunity would come, and then 20-plus years passed- Oh, wow ... and I never have been. What are you go- So an opportunity- What are you going for? Idler's Race, RWB. Okay, ooh. Yeah. Ooh. Are you gonna drive?

I d- I wasn't invited to drive. I'm actually going out there- Okay ... to help tell a story. Okay. But Toshi was like, "Hey, I have a spare car." Right. So I, I might drive while I'm there, yeah, so. So you're there. Yeah. What, what, what, uh, track? I don't even know. I don't even know. I, it- it's all- Yeah ... kind of brand new, and- Sure

I, yeah, it's just [02:31:00] something that's coming up, so- Oh, I'm excited for you ... pretty hype. I, we gotta chat afterwards. But, but it's cr- like, it's one of those things where I kept thinking like- It'll happen ... I'll, I'll eventually go. Yeah. And I've just never been. Like, I've been so many places in the world- Yeah, but not Japan

haven't been, haven't been to Japan. That's so odd. So, yeah. That's weird. And meanwhile, your bi- you're in, you're, like- I'm 20, 25 plus ... your introduction into the industry started because of a trip to- Yeah, yeah ... Auto Salon. You know, at least industry side of it, not just the, you know, enthusiast side. Yeah. It was, it's, it was, uh- What was it like back then?

I mean, compared to what it is now It's still very similar. Really? Actually. I mean, there's a few things that are different. There's a lot more things in English. Yeah. Or, like, um, English characters, where before it was all Japanese chara- Yeah ... you got lost a lot. Yeah. The f- first Auto Salon I went to was in a different venue, so it wasn't as big, but there was definitely some booths that were just as large as OEM booths.

Oh, yeah. Um, and that's changed over the years, of course, because it's gotten more expensive. But, you know, tuning culture in Japan has, has its own ebbs and flows. I mean, there was a huge decade where nobody brought a- [02:32:00] brought any new cars out, 'cause the money just wasn't there. Mm-hmm. 'Cause Japan was in a, still is in a recession, kind of- Mm

sort of, right? So luckily, it's kind of turned back around the last f- five years or so. Mm-hmm. But from like, I felt like from '06 to 2015, there wasn't a whole lot- Mm ... going on. Like, they were trying to fix up Priuses. Yeah. And it wasn't like, or PRI, whatever it's called. Yeah. And so there wasn't, like, a new GT-R coming out or a new- Right

thing to, to really modify. So I felt like they've had their struggles, but I still love going to Auto Salon. It now feels like it's kind of back to that early energy, 'cause, like, all of the- Yeah ... creators are going out. The creators have helped. And there's like a huge market. Yeah. And now everyone goes, and then, like, going to Ebisu- Yeah

is, like, part of the week, and- Okay, yeah ... everything like that, yeah. I, you s- I see, a lot of times I'll see more people in Japan than I do here. I know, that's what, yeah. Right? And it's like, "Oh, hey." You know? My o- my joke always was we go to Vegas just to see everyone- See, yeah ... who lives in, like, you know, the South Bay.

30 minutes away. You're like, "You live 10 blocks from me, but I see you in Vegas." Yeah, right. So now they have to drive. It's, it's [02:33:00] the coming together, you know? So while Nads was on the show- Sure ... he talked about you guys going to Japan. Yes. And getting into some, like, particularly crazy stuff. And I think he was a fr- he was like, "I don't know if I wanna tell this story-" Yeah

"because of RJ." Do you wanna tell the story? Su- I, yeah, 'cause, and we were talking about, there's, there's moments now I think that you and I will be like, "Nope." Yeah, we're, we're like- "Pull over" ... adults now. "Get me out of the car." So there was a moment, Nads on his pod talks about, you know, we, we went to Osaka, we went with a company, Signal Auto.

Um, we got, we, they took us everywhere. Mm-hmm. So the late night drifting, which is what the Nad, that story that Nads told where he had to brace himself. And then there was another night that we were going to dinner, and the owner of the company had a crazy, like, you know, um, like, uh, color shift purple R34, not midnight purple, but- Yeah

kind of one of those House of Kolor colors. He's like, "I'm gonna give you guys a ride." It's kind of like a bonsai run. Mm. You know? So we get in, this car has two Bride seats, Bride seats. [02:34:00] Um, four of us get in. He's like, he wants to pack the car. Now, Derry's sitting up front, I'm sitting behind him in, in front of this carbon Kevlar bucket.

Mm. And then our translator is the other person in the seat. We get in, the owner says, we're, like, putting our seat belts on. He's like, "Oh, oh, no seat belt though." "No seat belt though." And we're like Okay. Like, and we're trying to be, like, gracious- Yeah ... guests. We're like, "Okay." He's like, "Okay, okay. Trust. Trust."

So we're like, "All right." That's like something that- Yeah ... anyone who didn't have, like, a Japanese accent- Yeah ... explaining this to you would be like, "Go fuck yourself." Fuck this. Yeah, exactly. It was like- But somehow you're like- ... sketchy ... "Oh, this is the spirit of racing." Yeah, yeah. "I have to do this." So we, we take off, and we're

And this guy's going for it, you know? Um, and he's got, like, two settings in the car. I think he's on his street setting, so it's probably making, like, 6, 700 horsepower, but it's a R34, right? And he's, he's just- booking it on like Osaka- Yeah ... [02:35:00] freeways. And we're, I forget, it was like a, an interchange of some sort, and the traffic backs up, and he, he kind of sees it late, and he starts braking, but he forgets that we're like full of people.

And so now we're... I don't know how fast we're going, but we're going fast. And so now, like he starts to brake really hard, and he, then he starts screaming. Uh, I thought he was saying low boost, but he was saying like, "No," like, "No brakes," or something. Right. And it, and it, we're like careening towards like the back of this miniature like minivan, and I'm like...

And I'm, I'm, I'm looking at the windshield. I'm looking at this carbon Kevlar seat. I'm like, "I'm gonna die. I'm, I'm gonna die." And remember I was telling you, like there was this one moment I, I will not do that anymore, 'cause I, I literally thought like, "We're gonna hit this car. I'm gonna fly towards this carbon Kevlar seat- Oh

and that's it. That's gonna be the end of me." So he lets off the brake. Luckily, he gets slow enough that he lets off the brake, and he kind of ricochets off the car next to this car that we're about to [02:36:00] hit. So he kind of ricochets in this car. And then he kinda, kinda bones out again and calls like his people and be like, "You know, I just ricocheted off this car.

Make sure you like, you go to them, and we're gonna go do the apology thing- Right. Yeah, yeah ... and make sure nobody's hurt." But that was like a moment of like life, life flashing like- Mm-hmm ... in front of my eyes, and that was, that was it. That was, that's the, that's the John Nadery and RJ almost died story in- S-

in Osaka. So are you now, like you no longer get... Like you, you don't go for rides like that anymore? I'll get in a track car- Okay, yeah ... with a race car driver- Yeah ... as long as I'm harnessed in. Yeah. Like, you know, there was another thing that I did with Valvoline, um, called Drifting 101- Mm-hmm ... um, where we got, uh, Keiichi Tsuchiya, the drift king, to reproduce the Drift Bible.

Mm. Because it was- Yeah ... a Valvoline thing that we did where we wanted- Drift Bibles. Yeah, so good, right? Such a- So Valvoline had, had, um, a goal to get a coupon for oil in the hands of everyone that walked into Hot Import Nights. And they came to me and said, "RJ, do you [02:37:00] have any ideas on like how we do this and it doesn't end up on the, on the floor?"

'Cause at Hot Import Nights you would turn all the lights on, you would see all this stuff on the floor, like people that, you know, that are trying to give away whatever. They're like, "We wanna give away a coupon for, um, a carton of oil, but we don't want it end, we, we don't want it to end up on the floor."

And I was like, "How much money do you have?" They're like, "We've got a decent budget. You got any, any ideas?" I'm like Yeah, I've got a c- pretty crazy one. I'm like, "Do you know that you sponsor this guy called The Drift King?" 'Cause I'd seen this Option magazine- Mm ... where there's this huge Valvoline logo on his race suit.

And they're like, "No, what is it? Why? Why does it matter?" I'm like, "Well, do you know this movie called Tokyo Drift that's coming out, and there's this whole drift series called Formula D and D1, and he did this thing called Drift Bible." I said, "If we remade the Drift Bible and put the coupon in the DVD, I guarantee you none of those will end up on the floor."

Mm. They're like, "Can you make that happen?" I'm like, "I have some friends," right? So I call Taro- Yes ... and I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm like, "Can you, heh, get ahold of Tsuchiya-san and ask him if he's [02:38:00] down to do this?" He's like, "Yes." So we end up doing it. We do it, we film it after a D1 event. It might have been the Fontana one that you spoke about.

Mm-hmm. Kazama's car was the K-Office car, which is Tsuchiya's company. So we brought that car out and we filmed, we re-filmed Drift Bible. At the end, Tsuchiya was like, "RJ, I wanna give you a ride." And we're at, we're at Willow Springs at Horse Thief Mile, and he's like ... And the, the, it wasn't really him, but the production team was like, "Le- le- uh, seatbelt him in, but make it loose so he flies around."

And that was the second time I was like, nah, and after that was like, "Never again." Yeah. 'Cause I almost got, like, th- you know, got sick. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause I was just flying around the, the cockpit so much. My two sketchiest times in a car, one was in, was in Sweden. Mm-hmm. This was before anyone really knew what Gatebil was at the time.

Okay. We went out there. We didn't even know what it was. We went there with Zero to 60. A friend of ours who was, um ... Actually, we went to Norway. Mm-hmm. A friend of ours who was Swedish was like, "Oh, you should go to, like, you know, you should go to Scandinavia." Oh. "They build these [02:39:00] crazy cars." And this was before engine swaps- Okay

from foreign manufacturers in a car was the thing, right? Yeah. Where you're like, "Oh, I'm gonna have a, you know, a, a BMW engine in my Mercedes," right? Mm-hmm. Like, no one was doing that here, but they were doing it there. So we went with Zero to 60, and this guy- was like, "Oh, get in my car. It makes 1,200 horsepower."

Sure. Ooh. 1,200 horsepower- Yeah ... was, like, not something that my brain knew how- Yeah ... to understand. Sure. The Bugatti Veyron, which had just come out, only had 1,001 horsepower. 1,000, yeah, yeah. I thought he was lying. Okay. We got into a car with no seat belts- Ooh ... and it was, like, a Mercedes SL- Okay ... convertible-

that made, oh, like, 1,200 horsepower, and we went down this narrow road- Uh-huh ... in Norway, and I just remember thinking, like- You're gonna die ... "Well, it's been fun." Yeah, yeah. You know? Like- This is how I'm gonna go out ... like, the car was all over the place. Yeah. Like, it was just, like, the wheels spin the whole time.

Yeah. And there's just, like, houses and telephone poles- Sure ... and just not the kind of place to be doing this. Sure. And then I got out of the car, and I'm like, "I'm not doing that again." Yeah, never again. Yeah. And [02:40:00] then another time was in the, in a Donk. Really? Okay. We got, I got into a Donk that had, like, a ton of power.

Okay. And at the time it was probably, like, 600, but it- Sure ... and, but the guy didn't know how to drive. Oh. And the car stepped out- Uh-huh ... and he was just, like ... And I'm, like, wanting to just be like- Right ... "Move over. Let me do this" Yeah ... 'cause he was doing everything wrong- Wrong, yeah ... to collect the car, and amazingly, we didn't hit any of the cars- Wow

on the street in North Carolina. Yeah. But like, again, like, no seat belts- Right ... like, convertible. Like, I don't know why. I'm just never getting into a convertible again- Yeah ... now that I put those two stories together. But yeah, I'm now at the age- They were both convertibles? They were both convertibles, yeah.

Wow. Scary. I just n- I think I'm just now at an age where I just have no interest of, like- Yeah ... someone showing you- Sure ... how fast their car is. Sure. And, like, people wanna prove things to you. Yeah. It's always bad. Yeah, no. Yeah. I mean, I've been in a lot of ra- race cars. Sure. Rally car drive is very scary.

Sure. But harness- You're s- yeah ... helmet, HANS. You feel a little safer that way. You feel like there's something there. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like, I, honestly was just saying, like, "I won't ride with Zac." I was like, the, we were talking, that's how we talked before- Oh ... that we started this guy, you know, Zac from [02:41:00] Hoonigan.

From Hoonigan. Yeah, yeah. He doesn't ever put seat belts in any of his trucks. He doesn't. And they all, they're all, like- They're all like old-fashioned- Sure ... leaf spring trucks that make 1,000 horsepower. That's horsepower. Ooh, that's scary. Yeah. I met Zac on, uh, at F1 Vegas. We were part of a group. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. For, uh, Z- uh, Ra- Racing Bulls or something like that. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So cool guy. Yeah, yeah. Cool guy. Yeah, he's, uh, he's an interesting one 'cause he didn't like cars when he started at Hoonigan. Really? He was just a really good editor. Oh. And he was working- Well, it's his whole life now. Well, yeah.

Yeah. So he was working with, um... Do you remember, um, well, you know Bro Science? Are you familiar with that? The- Mm-mm. No. So there was this guy, um, his, his, like, stage name was Dom Mazzetti. Sure. And during the recession- Uh-huh ... he was, like, a writer or whatever, and he did a bunch of these, like, funny skits. Okay.

And then he was, he became really successful on YouTube doing- Sure ... kind of these skits, and he liked cars, so he did this thing called Nar PM. Okay. And him and Za- Zac worked with him on that, but Zac was a motorcycle guy. Oh. And he came to Hoonigan. Right. And we, [02:42:00] we had him editing, but he was really funny, so we immediately put him in front of the camera.

Sure. But he was a bike guy, and I eventually said to him, like, "Hey, one of the fringe benefits of working here- Right ... is, like, people give you parts to build cars." Right. Yep. He was like, "Huh." So he built a car and sold it- Oh, wow ... and was like, "Oh, this is a good business." Yeah, yeah. And now he's like... I don't even think he rides bikes anymore.

Sure. Now he like, all he does is build, like, big, big V8 stuff. Do you have any bikes? No, I had a- Yeah ... Gixxer when I was younger. Okay. But yeah, I, I, and it never... I don't know, it never really hit- Hit ... the same way, yeah. Yeah, 'cause I feel like there's an intersection sometimes. Yeah. Four-wheel, two-wheel, right?

Yeah. I'm really big, and I look really goofy- Yeah ... on a motorcycle. Oh. And as someone- Yeah ... who... Like, I stopped riding BMX 'cause I looked- Sure ... too goofy on a bike. Oh, wow. It's like, I think at six foot- Yeah ... eight, like, you just like- Yeah. I probably look fine on a Harley, but I never had... I only had interest in sport bikes.

Oh. So, and I had, like, a... I, when I moved here, I had a Bobber. Sure. But I enjoyed building it more than I enjoyed riding it. Riding it. Yeah, especially in LA. Yeah. So. Yeah, I almost got into bikes, but, uh, it scared the living [02:43:00] daylights out of me, so I'm like- Yeah ... four wheels. What'd you do? What were you riding?

Uh, it was mostly like, uh, what is it? R6 stuff. Okay. Yeah. That, that, that kind of size, 600. Yeah. I had a play brother, he's the guy that, um, brought me to the street races that made me, helped me fall in love with cars. He used to flip bikes. Oh, okay. So he would buy them- Yeah ... um, fix them up- Yeah ... flip them. He would pick me up.

I ended up working for him, um, at a copy service company, and he would pick me up from school- Mm ... on a bike, and I would jump on the back of it. And he taught me how to ride and I, I was like, "Ooh, this is- Yeah ... yeah, this is scary." The, uh, it's funny, 'cause for me, the, the reason that I first got really introduced to bikes was a buddy of mine- Mm-hmm

who was the publisher of Mass Appeal, was... We got really into bikes. Right. And I, at that point, just liked working on things. Right. And he didn't really know how to work on stuff, and he had bought, like a b- a crash bike. Right. And then he bought, like a, an, two, basically two crash bikes- Mm ... and we made one good bike out of it.

Yeah. But then I took all the leftovers and built [02:44:00] another bike. Okay. So I was riding this, like full, like- Frankenstein ... Mad Max Frankenstyle bike. And of course, 'cause I grew up riding BMX- Yeah ... like, the first thing I tried was nose wheelies. Oh, wow. Like, I barely could, like, I barely understood, like how to steer- Yeah

through a fast turn. And you were trying to do- But was already, like, trying to do tricks and stuff, so yeah, it was... And, and this is like, in the middle of the city, so clearly that wasn't a good idea. Did you destroy that bike, then? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah . So, and then, and then unfortunately, a friend passed away, and I was like, "All right, I, I- That's it

don't wanna do things like that anymore." Yeah. That, that was the other thing, people would- Yeah. It's not like if you go down, it's when you go down. Yeah. That's, I mean, what do they say? It's like, there's a, there's three riders. There's, like, those who will crash, those who have crashed, and those who won't crash again.

Crash. Yeah. And it's like, that's the three ways. Yeah. Sad. And it's like, that's- Yeah ... unfortunately, my history with bikes is, is that. Sure. So the old, with age comes a cage. Oh, yeah. So yeah, kinda. I enjoy cars. So rally racing's still in the cards for you, or no? Um, I would, if there was anything, either rally racing or hill climb- Oh

are the two things I really like. Have you, have you, have you been to Pikes, but you've never driven? Oh, I've been to Pi- I've, I've never driven Pikes as competit- competitively. [02:45:00] Competitively? Yeah. Um- I could see you doing that ... I, that would be really fun. I really enjoy the European style hill climbs- Okay

that are like two miles or three miles long. Okay. That's way more popular on the East Coast. Sure. So it's actually what, I don't know if you know this, but Ryan Tuerck's been doing a lot of that. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Yeah. So Ryan's been r- competing, um, in the, like the New England- Okay ... Hill Climb Association.

Sure. And it's crazy, 'cause like, you have Ryan showing up with like, you know, I think he's running the Celica there now. Sure. But there'll be guys who will, like, will be in like old NASCARs. Okay. Guys who will be in, like, open wheel cars. Sure. It's like, it's, it feels very drag racing. Okay. It's like run what you brung.

Yeah. Which, there's an element of that- Yeah ... at Pikes too. Yeah. But I really like that, um- Pikes is f- it feels like it's becoming more commercialized and professional- Yeah ... than just run what you brung. Well, especially ever since it's become all paved. Yeah, that's true. Because all paved has brought a new speed to it.

Sure. And there's, like, now a new goal to chase. Right. I think one of the problems, and Will Roggie and I, who both have this, this like, you know, affinity for Pikes- Mm-hmm [02:46:00] You know, is this the golden era- Mm-hmm ... where, like, everything's fast again? Sure. Or was it the original, like- On the dirt ... yeah, the Rod Millen era- Right

where it was, like, all dirt, right? Yeah, all dirt. The in-between era, which I think we were talking about before, felt like things slowed down. I think they actually got to this point where they just weren't breaking new records, right? Mm-hmm. Like, Monster kept going there- Yep, yep ... and, you know, just couldn't- Could, yeah

get into the, you know, good into the nines. Right. Couldn't break the 10-minute mark. And I think whenever a sport has no more progression, like there's less interest for- Yeah ... manufacturers- Becomes less interesting, yeah ... to show up, and because of that there's no- Sure ... less excitement. Where right now- Yeah, you keep breaking the record

it's like every year there's, like, a new story coming- Yeah ... out of Pike, so it's, it's, it's pretty interesting. Oh, yeah. But yeah, I don't know. The, I, I think I, I also really like endurance racing. Okay. I think that that's pretty cool. I don't know if I would, I, I don't know if I would do it, but I, I... Only because there's so much commitment- Sure

that goes into it. Sure. But, I don't know. Yeah, that's tough. If, like, if, if there wasn't everything else in life- Sure ... right, like if I didn't have to worry about- Yep ... like [02:47:00] my mortgage- Yeah ... my kid, like all those other things, I think the three events that I think would be really... Any rally race, I don't really care.

The Nürburgring 24 Hour- Yeah ... and the Baja. Ooh. The Baja 1000. Yeah, 1000. I, I did a, I've done a lot of filming in Baja. Sure. And I've, like, worked with a lot of- Sure ... teams and, and trophy truck teams, guys like BJ Baldwin, Bryce Menzies, so on and so on. And like that just seems to me... It's so, like- Yeah ... raw and lawless- Yeah

that it feels like it's a really good- Would you wanna do- ... bucket list thing ... trophy truck or something else? I don't care. Doesn't matter. I would do, like I, like I don't think I have the speed for a trophy truck. Sure. I think doing it in, like, a Class 5- Sure, yeah ... or something like that would be fine. Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I mean, we were gonna do, we were supposed to do that with a, we built this, uh, Baja Bug called- Okay ... Scumbug at Hoonigan, and that was the original plan to do it, but I think we actually realized, like, we didn't have the budget to do it- Do Baja, yeah ... the way it really needed to be done. Yeah, yeah.

Like, with, like- Chase trucks ... Chase trucks- Yeah ... and all of that. And yeah, we, we did it because BF Goodrich, like, threw us- Sure ... a little bit of [02:48:00] money, but they didn't throw us enough money- Enough money, yeah ... to, like, really do it- Yeah ... do it the right way. I don't think people understand how- Expensive racing is

expensive Baja i- Yeah ... or racing- Just racing ... just Baja in general. Yeah, yeah. What would you do? Oh, that's a great question. I would... I, I really fell in love with circuit driving- Mm-hmm ... even though I'm not that great at it, so I'd love to do, like, a one-make series. Mm. Um, I try to drive open wheel. Mm-hmm. I mean, that is some of the most challenging, and I drove it with no aero, was like a Formula Ford- Yep

you know, with a dog, uh, gearbox, a dog sequential gearbox. Mm-hmm. I cannot heel-toe to save my life. Really? Yeah, like I've, I've tried to learn different models, um, where you put- Have you- ... the foot aside. Yeah. You roll your foot over, and maybe because I've been trying on so many different, um- Configuration

configurations- Yeah ... that I haven't practiced enough one style. I kind of told myself I would do that on the S2000, 'cause that's a great- Yeah ... you know, um, pedal configuration. But yeah, d- through my life, I've just not been, like, the great heel-toe downshift [02:49:00] person. It's, it's, it's funny. I was... I... It was something that I struggled to learn- Mm-hmm

at first because my feet are so big. Mm. And then- You found a system for you ... I went to Bob... I went to do the Bob Bondurant school. Ooh, Bondurant. Yeah, yeah. And Bob was like- That was Mustangs? Uh, at the time it was- Corvettes ... Cor- it was C5 Corvettes- Corvettes ... and Cadillacs. Okay. And, um, I had to drive the Cadillac 'cause with the cage I was- Sure

too big for the Vette, and, uh, Bob was like, "Oh, just do it this way," and it was, like, more of, like... It was- The, the roll? It was more of, like, a toe, like a- Okay ... a roll. Yeah, yeah. Because I couldn't do it- Yeah ... the other... Like, I would just, my foot just didn't- Yeah, yeah ... work that way. Yeah. And I was like, my knee was all- Sure

caught up and stuff, and then, yeah, and that was kind of, like, what clicked. I don't know. Ah. I really... Yeah. It's tough. I mean, I can do it, but what happens is I put too much brake pressure, and it does the lunge forward- Mm ... for the, for the downshift, so that's what I'm trying to work on. I used to always practice on the street.

Uh-huh. And what I realized the worst part about that is, is you're not putting the right amount of pressure. For sure, yeah. And you'd always be off on your timing. Yeah. And then, like... But I learned that, like, then on track it just kinda would make sense. Make sense. I don't know. So. Yeah, so [02:50:00] circuit would be m- my goal if I could, you know, do something from a- Yeah

racing perspective. It, it's this dream of being a gentleman driver. Yeah. Just like you. Yeah. Just show up, do- It would be cool. Yeah, it would be cool. I mean, I love racing. I think, like, I, I have a little bit of interest in doing... Have you ever heard of Lucky Dog? No, what is that? It's kind of like Lemons- Mm-hmm

but with like, they'll take, they take themselves a little bit more seriously. Like, I think Lemons is very much about, like, the joke and the aesthetic- Just have fun, yeah ... whatever, which, like, I have nothing against. Sure. But Lucky Dog tries to be a little bit more, it's an endurance race. Okay. Um, we were looking into it just to get endurance training to go race the Nürburgring.

Okay. And they have a lot of events local. Oh. So, you could go and do, you know, 12 hours of- Sure ... Chuckwalla or something like that- Sure ... or Thunder Hill and whatever, and they do a bunch. And everybody's running, like, you know, a mix of cars, but I think it, you know, it has, like, a spend cap. Sure. So guys are running, like- Mm

you know, E39, you know, 5 Series- Sure ... BMWs, and other guys are running, you know, [02:51:00] E36s. But, like, there's- That's so crazy. Yeah, and I think everything has to be before 2000 and something, so it's like- Okay ... older cars. But, like, it looks the part. And I, and, and again, no knock on Lemons. I, I, I, Lemons is cool. I, I have a bunch of friends who do it, but aesthetically, I love motorsports as an aesthetic.

Yeah, yeah. And, like, if a, if a vehicle next to me is shaped like a chicken, it just feels like I shouldn't be there. It's not serious. Like, yeah. Yeah. We're like- It's not serious ... like, I actually, I pitched an idea to, to a friend of mine. I'm like, "I wanna do a, a Jetta, a Volkswagen Jetta single touring car, like VR6 touring car series that's all '90s Jettas," because they're not fast- Right

but, like, the Jetta looks like an old touring car. Mm. It looks good on, like, an- Mm ... 18 or 19-inch, like- Yeah ... touring wheel drop down. Sure. And granted, 19's massive, but that is what they ran on the touring cars back in the day. And You could, um, and the VR6 sounds good. Yeah. And like that's actually what matters.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was this [02:52:00] video that was circulating of a Jetta like, you know, series from the '90s, and the cars are like bouncing into each other, like going over the curbs. It just looks really cool. Mm. And like that looks like fun to me, 'cause aesthetically it also looks really good. Fun. And we were discussing building this series idea, and I said, "We'd have to control everyone's livery."

Mm-hmm. Because all it takes is for one car to not look cool- Yeah. And have that throw it off ... and it ruins like the whole fleet. Yeah. It's like, it's why JGTC and DTM- Yes ... and all these things looked, were great- Great ... because the cars all looked sick. Yeah, looked great. You know? Okay. We'll have to, we'll have to make a pact to do like a- Yeah

gentleman's race- That's a good one. That's a good one ... at some point. I, I'm gonna give you, I'll give you, I wanna give you one last question. Sure. Man, we ran late. I thought we were gonna end at two hours. Oof. We were at like an hour forty, 'cause by the way, for everyone listening, it is a warm day today in Long Beach.

It is a warm day. And we do not have air conditioning. Um, it is not just RJ's amazing, uh, skincare treatment that keeps him looking this dewy. It's that it's about 90 degrees in here. Yeah, yeah. Um, what do you think are the it cars right now, of new cars you can buy in a dealership? Ooh. 'Cause [02:53:00] we were, I think, spoiled when we were coming up- Mm-hmm.

Yes ... with what was available in the '90s. The '90s stuff was a golden era. We didn't realize how good it was. And, uh, it's a question I get from a lot of younger kids. Sure. Like, "What's the car I can go buy that's either brand new or a few years old that's like the next- Yeah ... like cool car to tune, build, and all of that?"

It's tough, because so many of the cars have so many aids- Mm-hmm ... that it's, you can get a cool car that's fast. Yeah. But from a driving, like it fills your driving soul perspective- Mm-hmm ... it's like tough. You know, especially if you've driven something more analog. But my, my girlfriend's actually looking for a new car, and, and luckily she drives manual.

Hmm. So we just drove GR Corolla and Integra Type S. Both of those cars I think are great- Mm-hmm ... cool cars that you can get now slightly used or new. Um, you could still mod them. Mm-hmm. You could still have fun with them in the same way that we did in the '90s. I think there's less and less of those, [02:54:00] unfortunately.

Mm-hmm. Like, the sports car world, they're all great, they're all fast. But they might not be as great and fun to drive Especially for the price. Especially for the price, 'cause I mean, even the Aston that I'm in, if I spec that in the new generation Vantage, it's like 50, 50% more- Yeah ... than it what it was, and it's got all these aids, and it's heavier and- Yep

so I mean, I mean, think, you know, the sports, uh, it, I mean, Porsche does, does such a great job, and granted, the, the new GT3 is heavier- Yeah ... than it's ever been, but- But these are all expensive cars. Yeah. Like, you're thinking about a 25-year-old. Oh. What do they get? Yeah. Like, I, I think the GR Corollas- And you could-

are very, it's, it's, it's on the upper left. Upper, yeah. Yeah. It's still 45 to 50K, which isn't- Yeah ... cheap, but I guess that's the average price of a new car now. It's crazy. So for that, I would say GR Corolla, um, the '86 GR as well. Of course, that's, that's the one I think everyone goes to. I mean, that's really good.

I mean, its balance is great. Mm-hmm. You can have- It's a great car ... a lot of fun, uh, in it. The Integra Type S, which is basically a Type R that's been tuned- Mm-hmm ... [02:55:00] differently and has a different vibe to it. You know, I grew up in front-wheel drives, and the traction that the latest Type Rs and Type, Integra Type S's have is way, doesn't have the torque steer.

Mm-hmm. It can put down 300-plus horsepower no problem, um, which is just, it's just a fun car to drive. So I think those would be the main. I'm trying to think if there's anything from Subaru BRZ which is basically the same thing Yeah ... as the 86, yeah And again, I feel like they're moving- Everything else has gotten big

moving away from, from what they, like, the, the, what the WRX was. Yeah, they're definitely more- Yeah ... of the overland market that doesn't- Sure ... want trucks. What's in the VW world? I guess, uh- Nothing. GTI or R ... GTI ... but, like, they're all bigger and heavier. Sure. They're not, like, sp- I, I mean- But that's the standard, right?

Yeah. You have to measure it on that, not a- On the current thing, yeah. Yeah. I wish they brought the GR Yaris here. Yeah, I know. That would be s- I agree ... I would d- That's the right size car. Yeah, that would- And that's what they race for, for rally is the Yaris, so. Right, the Yaris, right? Yeah. That would be my...

I would get that for every day. Mm-hmm. That would be the every day. I was just walking past, like, an older gen [02:56:00] Yaris the other day. Sure. And it was just sitting, like, perfectly, like, framed, like, on a street. Right. And I was like, that's a pretty good- Yeah ... looking car. Like, it's, it, and it, ne- no one really ever built it.

Sure. Like, the Honda Fit- Sure ... became the cool small car. Yeah. But, like, the Yaris just had a cool shape to it, like, I don't- I think if you're young, you have to go used. I know, that's it. You know? Because there's, everything's so expensive. But you think about it from our generation, a lot of us were building cars that were only a few years old.

Sure. Sure. Like, yeah, we were building older cars- Yeah ... but, like, the Integra was new. Yeah, fairly new. Like, like, you was still- Yeah ... new. Like, my Volkswagen that I bought, when I first got it, you could still buy it in the dealership. Right. I had bought it used, but it was, like, a few years old used. Right. Now, it's like kids- Yeah

are buying the same... They're, we're all fighting over the same cars. Same cars, yeah. We're all fight- the other day, we, I referred to it as, uh, automotive, uh, gentrification. Oh, yeah. 'Cause it's like we're all- Yeah ... fighting. Like, everybody- For this 90-something ... wants the same... Yeah. Like, you're looking at a DC2- Yeah

so is a 23-year-old. Yeah, yeah. Because all the, we, like, stopped making [02:57:00] fun cars or something. Well, a, a lot, so much change in suspension geometry and j- Yeah ... for, like, manufacturing and cost. So, like, there's not many cars that are double wishbone, and- Yeah ... they're not manual, and even in the, the gearboxes, because they make so s- so few of them are, isn't fully sorted, and- Yeah.

Let me ask you, uh, uh, we, we can end on this one, but, um, from a SEMA side Are you guys actually seeing an aftermarket go back in time a little bit? Because for so long- Mm-hmm ... so much of the aftermarket was about cars- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... that were within the first two or three years, ig- unless they were, like, muscle cars.

Sure. But are we, are you, are we starting to see a return to golden era? Like, I, I am obviously, I have a small POV 'cause I see- Sure ... the brands that I like- Sure ... building stuff for the cars I like, but from a steamer perspective- I'm- ... how do, how are they dealing with the fact that we, we struggle to name a bunch of, like- Yeah

cool new it cars for a younger generation? I'm trying to think of the research. You know, the research is showing a lot of [02:58:00] growth, more in off-road trucks, SUV, and, and CUVs. Mm-hmm. So it's, on that side it's growing, in terms of accessorizing and modding. I guess that's it. I guess- Yeah ... I don't think about the, the truck space is just exploding.

Exploding, yeah. Especially, like, overlanding and all that. So on the performance side, it's much more difficult because there are- Mm ... not as many new platforms. So there are brands that are having to find niches. Mm-hmm. Because there's, there's also a lot of cars where the factory stopped making things, which was kind of a lot of the hot rod stuff.

Yeah. Right? So you have a new body from this maker that makes a body- Yeah ... or panels for whatever. Like, you can get AE86 brand-new bodies now, which is really cool. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Like, straight to your door. So I think that's gonna be the next wave, because it, even, like, Honda announced, you know, they're starting to re-do parts for NSX, right?

Nissan and Nismo has had a refurb program for GTR- Mm-hmm ... for a while, and I'm curious to see if more companies jump on that bandwagon. Like, good luck buying an old '90s [02:59:00] Honda and f- trying to find weather seals. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah. It'd take you, like, f- 10 years to- Mm-hmm ... to build one with new parts, right?

So are, are brands gonna, or manufacturers gonna notice this void and start to build- Right ... components for it? I'm hoping so. Which is what the market for classic cars- Yeah ... was forever. Yeah. It's just these are the new classics. Yeah. And especially it being, like, all plastic and rubber that's, like, all deteriorated.

When, and there was one comment that someone made, like, w- yeah, the c- the cars for, the collector cars for us are '90s cars- Yeah ... that are built with a lot of plastic parts that- Mm-hmm ... are gonna fade and crack. Mm-hmm. So I think there is an opportunity here for whether it's a 360 or a Golf or- Yeah ... an Integra or a NSX- Yeah

for, I mean, even my S2000, which is an '09, there's things that need to be replaced. Yeah. And I don't know if I can get it. I have a 86. I have a Cor- Yeah ... a, I have an old, you know, Corolla 86- Hachi, Hachi ... and I, I actually have a, um- Or 511? No, a coupe. Oh, coupe. So yeah, not technically a Hachi, but- SR5 or whatever it's called

the, yeah, SR, yeah. [03:00:00] And I had n- the car came without taillights. Oh, yeah. And I had no idea that the taillights- Yeah, that's ... were gonna cost a G. You know? Like, I was like, "Ooh, good deal." Yeah. The guy was like, "Oh, I don't have any taillights." Yeah. So I was like, "That's fine." Right. And then you're like, people are like, oh, they're like, you just can't find them anywhere.

Find them, yeah. And only if you, I was, and it's like stuff like that, and there's no one making, you know, like- Yeah, replacement taillights ... OEM replacement taillights. Yeah. I was like, how does that not exist- Yeah, yeah ... for a car that seems so popular in the space? It feels like there's a window right now.

Yeah. Because there's a lot of data that shows the cars that are increasing in value the most are these '90s cars- Mm-hmm ... that everyone's fighting for, whether you're 20 or 40s- Mm-hmm ... or maybe even '50s, like Nad's. Or, or even in the middle, in the, in the 30s. Like, everybody wants like a- Yeah ... a cool '90s car.

Yeah. It's just the era. We're all fighting over the same hot girl. Yeah, so it's like it's going up in price, but then you can't find any parts to restore it. Yeah. So you're just like So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm hoping that as that need becomes even more of a void that isn't filled, that [03:01:00] manufacturers start to wake up.

I mean, you've got people that are doing Restomod 911s- Yeah ... Gunther Works, Singer- Everybody, yeah ... you name it. Huge market. And they're selling it for millions of dollars. Not that we have that kind of money, but what is the, the s- the more attainable version of that, you know? Mm-hmm. Is, is there a Gunther Works version of a E30 M3?

Is there a Singer version of a, you know, or an S2000 R version- Mm ... that Evasive does that's more accessible- Mm-hmm ... than what they spent on that initial one? So yeah, that, that excites me, actually. Yeah. I have one last question for you, like... Yeah. Um, you s- you've seen lots of things. You're seeing lots of things.

What's the one thing that really excites you in the, in the culture, in the industry? Yeah. That's a, that's a really good question. Um, I think probably the thing that most excites me is seeing the excitement in a younger generation. Okay. Because I, I owe so much to this hobby. Mm-hmm. Right? I mean, it's- I feel the same way.

Right? I owe so much to it. Yeah. Like, um, you know, [03:02:00] I grew up in New York City, was around a bunch of crazy shit, and, like, cars- Mm-hmm ... were, like, a safe path out- Yeah, kinda saved your life in a way, right? ... of what I grew around- Yeah ... up, right? And it then became, you know, and then it, it was this thing again when I got into a career space, right?

Mm-hmm. And, like, I failed out of college, and then was able to still be successful- Sure ... because I leaned into that. So, like, I really want that to keep going, and I would say a few years ago I was sitting with a bit of a bleak outlook. Okay. Especially as you hear, like, "Oh, it's only EVs." EV, yeah. "And we're gonna..."

You know, and I'm like, "Oh, this is just gonna change." And, and not saying that it wouldn't continue, but it wasn't gonna be a thing that maybe I recognized. Sure. And then I go, you know, I go to a Cars and Coffee, and some 17-year-old kid's like, "Dude, is that an RS2?" Yeah. I'm like, "I can't believe you know what this is."

Yeah, it res- it restored your faith. Yeah. And it just, like, it makes me excited that there is this younger generation- Yeah ... that is excited. Like, for example, this show is a bunch of old dudes who come on the show- Yeah. We're, we're, we're the old dudes now ... and we rem- we, and we, [03:03:00] we are fucking the Chopped uncs of these young kids.

Yeah. Yeah. And, like, we come on this show, and we reminisce about the nostalgia- Oh, yeah ... and how good it was when you had to read something- Yeah ... in a magazine, and, "Oh, this, that, and the other thing," and there were no technologies. But most of my audience is actually still under 35 or so. Wow. Wow. 32. So it's like that's a cool thing to me, 'cause even though it's all- Sure

there's still a younger audience who's looking at this and saying, "Yeah, I, I, I like this. I like the culture- Sure ... of it all." I have a mixed feeling of how hype it is right now. Sure. Because I've... You've been there. I've been there. Yeah, a couple times. I would- It, it's a tidal wave. Yeah. Yeah. And we all know what it feels like when the wave pulls back out- Pulls back, yeah

and all of a sudden a ton of people lose their jobs. Sure. Because everyone built up to support this. Yeah. And then it falls out. So that part worries me, but I don't know, it's cool to see the new enthusiasts in the space. Um, yeah, I don't know. I, I, I think right now we are at a really strong moment, and I just- Mm-hmm

kinda want, like, as a culture- Sure ... as a community, like, I think that's good. There's obviously a bunch of bad things we have to fix. Sure. Like- That's every generation, though ... but [03:04:00] it always is, right? Yeah. I mean, takeovers and, uh, uh, you know, street racing had its own issues. Yeah. Takeovers have it now. I think it's l- I think it's different.

That's its own pod. But, you know, the issues we're dealing with, you know, EPA and all those- Yeah ... we'll figure our way around them. Yeah. As long as there is a younger enthusiast audience- That's willing to do it, yeah ... that wants to make it happen, because at the end of the day, there is a business behind it all.

Sure. And if enough people wanna do it and it creates enough jobs, well then, like, a piece of it has to exist. Yeah. Right? So- I'll, I'll, I'll end on my philosophy that I think it'll always be around. Yeah. Whatever the platform is, because I think there's an innate human want to personalize things and make- Mm-hmm

it your own. And even when there was the lull, I w- I remember I would give these presentations at 3M and Meguiar's, like, they're not getting their license at 16. But they're getting it at some point- Right ... when it makes sense to get- Yeah ... the license, right? Whether it's 25 or 30. Because at some point, like, you wanna have [03:05:00] something that r- resembles your success or your personality, whatever that may be, and it, and it just shifts.

Yeah. And I feel like there, that, that... it's why people are collectors, it's why people personalize whatever it is that they have. And to me, like, the vehicle may change, the platform may change, the propulsion may change, but this love to do something that's personal and then to share that with other people is gonna continue with or without AI, with or without digital.

Mm-hmm. You know, for, for the SEMA show, the PRI show, we- we're seeing a r- resurgence because people wanna see things in real life, 'cause it's hard to tell what's real and isn't real on screen anymore. Mm-hmm. And you kinda wanna, like, touch grass, right? And feel it yourself, uh, and see it for yourself. So I'm very hopeful.

Yeah. Hopefully, the wave is a, is a tidal wave that continues for a long while and there, there isn't this pullback. But, but that's just me. I, I always look at the glass half full. Yeah, you have a bit of an optimistic vibe. Yeah, I'm very optimistic and I get very excited in the things that fascinate me, and the things that [03:06:00] bring people together, and the, and the things that push, like, progression and momentum.

So it's worked for me for 30 years, so I'm just gonna- Yeah ... keep riding the wave. Well, I wanna tell you, I think you've officially beat TJ's record. Really? Yeah, you haven't beaten JP's, but I think you beat- Yeah ... TJ, and I, I think, I feel like that's what you came here for, right? Not really. I thought we, I thought we'd be done in two hours too, but- So did I, but then, like, you know, then you just get a groove.

Groove, yeah. I like a good groove. I, I, I've noticed with the pods, you, in the beginning you're like, "Oh, we're not even gonna make it to an hour 40." Yeah. Like, I feel like we're- Yeah ... and then all of a sudden you, it grooves. It goes. And that's, I think, what the audience likes the most, is when you get into that sort of- Awesome

flow, flow state. So thank you, dude, for coming on. I appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it. It's been good. And, and then I wanna say too, thank you for everything you've done for our community. Oh, I appreciate it. 'Cause you have done a lot. Like, I was there when I was not in it- I know ... and I wasn't in the industry, and I was rooting for you.

That, that means a lot to me. So it's, it's cool that- Thank you. Yeah. Hopefully, I can keep giving more. Yeah. Sweet. Maybe one day we'll both be at SEMA. Maybe. No, we're gonna- Or you'll be onto the next thing ... we're gonna go gentleman racing. Gentleman racing, and we're gonna go make [03:07:00] the first Fast and Furious movie over again.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. All right. Set in New York City. All right. 'Cause I know people make deals with you when they come here. And that, that is a, I- Right? Usually we wait till the end. Okay. You set the deal in the beginning, but it's always like- All right ... "Hey, what's the deal? What's the thing we're gonna go do?"

Okay. So all right. Thanks, dude. Peace.

The mailbox is full, full, full, full. The mailbox is full, full. The mailbox is full, full and cannot accept any messages at this time. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Each week you hear me talk about how great Heat Wave sunglasses are, but today I want to talk about their co-founder, Justin Hertel, and his fantastic taste in cars.

Here's a quick sampling. Top of the list, he has a sick third-gen LSA-powered sequentially shifted Pontiac GTA. On the flip side, he's got a 190E Cosworth Evo One, if you know you know, plus a proper vintage NASCAR in the iconic Tide livery. What else? A rad C4 Vette, a race Miata, a GT3 RS, oh, and another NASCAR.

I can't keep [03:08:00] track. Speaking of, he tracks all of his cars. But the pinnacle of his collection? A 92 Kenworth custom hauler/motor home. I've never been more envious. Ugh. Anyway, go check him out, heatwavevisual.com, and help support a fellow vehicular hoarder. So what if all of his run? I'm a tool dork. My obsession might even dwarf my addiction to cars.

I love collecting unique and specialty tools, which is how I initially fell in love with Wera. First off, they just make aesthetically pleasing tools. They feel good in your hand, they have a great finish, their sizes are universally color-coded, and they are super strong. In two decades, I've never broken a tool from Wera.

I wish I could say the same about my other tools. But the thing I like the most about Wera is that they create clever solutions for your wrenching woes, because you need over-engineered tools to work on today's over-engineered cars. So if you're ready to step up your tool game, whether it's the Zyklop ratchet or the Joker wrenches, find them at weratools.com.

Let's face it, living the low life [03:09:00] does come with its drawbacks. When I first got my RWB 911, there were only three gas stations in all of Long Beach I could get into without ripping the front bumper off. Luckily, KW Suspensions then introduced the Hydro Lift System to raise your car to adult heights.

The HLS2 lifts the front axle, while the HLS4 lifts them all. It's available as a complete kit or an add-on to your existing KW coilovers, and it works up to 50 miles an hour, meaning you don't have to take every dip in the road at that douchey 45-degree two mile an hour crawl. Check out kwsuspensions.com to find a kit for your slammed ride.