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Welcome to the We Are More podcast.

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My name is Alyssa.

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And my name's Bri.

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We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.

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We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His

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word.

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And apparently that's controversial.

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Get comfy.

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Hello world.

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Welcome, welcome, one and all, to our graduation.

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I don't remember the rest, but I was dressed as a duck.

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No one but me and like mom and dad are going to get that.

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That was my speech from the kindergarten graduation.

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And it wasn't even my speech.

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You got, didn't you get like part of it?

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Like everybody got a line.

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I don't know, but I was dressed as a duck.

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Why?

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Cause I did the little duck part.

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I feel bad for these parents cause you think like they want their little kids to be dressed

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up in their cute little fancy clothes and they made you a duck.

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Well, I still had a dress.

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I took off the duck costume.

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For the ceremony or like after?

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No for the ceremony.

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I don't really fully remember it, but we did like, we need to move on.

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You don't think that this is a great hook for people?

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Feeling very overwhelmed.

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I don't, I was five.

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I was five and I was a duck.

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You were a duck.

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I don't remember it either.

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I can't do as good of a duck sound as I can a chicken.

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You want to do your chicken?

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Tell the people about your viral YouTube video.

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I made a video in college of myself clicking like a chicken and I think it has like 5,000

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views.

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So I'm pretty much famous.

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Pretty much.

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Really you don't need the podcast.

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You just needed to make more chicken sounds.

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That's it.

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That's all I needed.

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I think you should probably find a new life calling.

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When I was in high school, I worked the set crew of the plays when they did the student

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show.

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So it was less important.

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I was a duck or a gufnaf.

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I do remember.

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Backstage I was clicking like a chicken.

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So people in the auditorium were like, why is there a chicken back there?

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What's going on?

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I loved the student shows.

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Those were always so fun.

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I know.

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Mostly because we got out of class.

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Yeah.

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For like most of the day.

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Yeah.

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I snuck people with me who weren't even in the drama department.

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They didn't want to pay for tickets.

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I was like, come back with me.

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I remember, I think probably like half of them I was in and then half of them I went to see.

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And either way it was a good day.

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Yeah.

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It was a great day.

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It was like last hour I think you got out of class.

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Or maybe two.

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I don't know.

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For the play?

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It might have been two.

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Depends on how long it was.

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It's true.

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Anyway.

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Moving on.

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Two and a half minutes of nonsense.

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But frankly we're doing great if we're two and a half minutes of nonsense.

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Yeah.

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Actually we're very clear and concise and succinct.

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That's who people think we are.

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How can you describe Alissa and Brianna?

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Succinct.

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That's the word.

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Yeah.

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People tune in specifically for our succinctness.

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They just don't love to do it.

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They just like to talk so we started our own podcast.

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I mean frankly.

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No one else wanted to listen to us.

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So here we are.

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Here we are.

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Talking to the world.

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Hello world!

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I have a week off and I don't know what day, what time, who I am, what's my name, where

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I come from, where did I go.

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Is my name Cotton Eye Jo?

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I think it is.

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And you should probably do the dance.

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TikTok!

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That's not where my mind went.

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I was like, Jo!

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Transition!

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Jo is a man's name.

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We're talking about toxic masculinity.

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Obviously Jo is toxic.

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Wow.

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That was a journey.

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So later when I edit this...

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You're not gonna edit that out because that is perfect.

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That is pretty funny.

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So anyway today we're talking about...

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Jo.

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Any Jo's that are listening, I'm real sorry.

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She has a vendetta against you.

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So anyway!

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Today we're talking about toxic masculinity.

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Jo!

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No.

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No.

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What is toxic masculinity?

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Can you define it?

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Because WebMD can.

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Do you know that when I edit these things, it sounds like I'm splicing things together

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because we go from cracking up hysterically to one of us becoming really serious.

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It's not.

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It's just us being real stupid.

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That's alcohol free, ladies and gentlemen.

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Just for you.

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Mostly ladies.

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Except that guy on TikTok.

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Except that one guy on TikTok.

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He loves me.

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Yeah, someone basically proposed to Brie on TikTok, so you know, updates coming soon.

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Yes, I'm taking applications.

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So today, as we go through toxic masculinity, we're gonna have a special guest later.

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Yes, Jo!

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No!

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We wanted to talk about toxic masculinity and how it affects women because we are women

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and that is the perspective that we can speak from.

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We also wanted to talk about how toxic masculinity affects men.

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And while we can talk about that from an academic standpoint, we are not men.

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We are not men.

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I hate to surprise you guys.

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I know that sometimes I go by Brian.

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I am not a man.

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So later on, my husband Nathan is going to come on.

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We should ask my future husband, TikTok man.

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TikTok man!

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Would you like to be on the pod?

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So later on, Nathan will be here.

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We have some questions for him that hopefully he's looking over right now.

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Did you give them to him?

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I did.

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Okay, good.

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So hopefully he's preparing himself.

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I'm gonna guess he's napping.

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That's a solid possibility.

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I'd be napping if I weren't here.

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You might be napping now.

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I am.

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I'm sleep talking.

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So Brie has some definitions for us, yeah?

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WebMD has a definition of toxic masculinity.

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And I will tell you what it is now.

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I'm prepared.

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You spit on me just now.

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Good.

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It's a good thing we're close.

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What is toxic masculinity?

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I'll tell you.

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It is an attitude.

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I gotta stop.

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It's an attitude or set of social guidelines stereotypically associated with menliness

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that often have a negative impact on men, women, and society in general.

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I think toxic masculinity, obviously it's popping up worldwide.

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This is not a church specific thing.

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It's a very buzzword topic.

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Two weeks from now we're also going to talk about toxic femininity because I think that's

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super important as well.

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Less spoken about.

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Yeah.

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But for this week, toxic masculinity I think we see everywhere.

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I mean it's all over social media.

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I think yes, it's everywhere but it's such a deeper topic than we give it credit for.

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Right.

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Because like I said, it's a buzzword.

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So if you see a manly man with a fish the size of Mount Rushmore and he's like, ugh,

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I'm a man.

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Like, ugh, that's toxic.

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Right, but is that toxic or is that just being who he is?

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Yeah.

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And when does it become toxic?

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Because it certainly can.

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So I think in the church we're seeing this so much tied to religion.

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Toxic masculinity has woven its way into the fabric of church men or Christian men or whatever

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you want to call them, but men that find themselves in church.

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Our dad says this all the time.

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He says that of course that attracts a certain kind of man who is maybe not confident in

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himself who is maybe not sure of his place in the world because it tells him you have

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ultimate power.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Go dad.

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And like you said when we were getting coffee for the 14th time in a row, it's all about

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power.

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Even deeper to define it a little bit.

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That's such a good basic definition.

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But to go further into it, we said if it's not the man holding the giant fish, what makes

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it toxic?

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Well I'll tell you because I read a whole article on WebMD about it.

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Okay, tell me.

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Okay.

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I'll quote it.

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WebMD.

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The author's name is Sarah Valley.

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I just feel like I should give her credit.

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Yeah.

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I don't know.

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She says, it's not meant to imply that the idea of masculinity in itself is inherently

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bad.

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Instead, it's meant to point out that certain behaviors and ways of thinking often associated

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with masculinity, from mental and physical toughness to sexism and homophobia, have a

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negative and often dangerous impact on the world.

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And I think just to dive into that a little bit, we talked about this earlier.

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When you tell someone that they have power over one group of people, so in this case

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women, it usually doesn't stop there.

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Usually if you say, I'm stronger than women, you're also probably going to say, I'm stronger

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than this type of person.

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I'm stronger than this type of person, which lends itself to racism, which lends itself

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to homophobia.

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Like so many things.

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Because you've decided you're higher up on the mountain than everybody else.

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Yeah.

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Because I'm physically stronger than this person.

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I have more power over this person, but also this person and this person and this person.

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Exactly.

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It gives you this heightened view of self, as opposed to looking out at the world and

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saying, how can I be a healthy, happy part of this community, this world, this relationship?

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Well think about Jesus.

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Jesus is fully God and fully man.

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He could have come down fully God and just been like, do what I want you to do, people.

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But he didn't.

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He lowered himself and he didn't look at himself as any better than anybody else.

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And that kind of leadership is what the world needs.

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You know, literally.

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When men jump off this precipice into this toxic, I have to be a man.

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I have to be a manly man who hunts and fishes and does taxidermy.

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I think that's going to be our running joke throughout every podcast.

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Men love taxidermy and women love embroidery.

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Obviously.

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Cats are women and dogs are men.

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We know that.

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Did other people think that or was that just us?

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I think other people think that.

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That was like a weird childhood thing.

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It's like a Mandela effect or something.

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But I think when you see men tying their personalities into this, it just becomes almost impossible

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to be a healthy person.

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Because we had talked about this earlier.

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We've had many conversations about this today.

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That masculinity has become a personality.

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Yeah.

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The idea of being a manly man is not a personality.

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Like if as an individual you like certain things that tend to be more masculine, great.

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Same thing with women.

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If you tend to like things that are more feminine, great.

267
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:24,760
But that doesn't just because you're a man doesn't mean you have to like these things

268
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,360
or have to be obsessed with power.

269
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,360
Right.

270
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,720
Well, I went through a few different articles.

271
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,320
We did so much research for this one, guys.

272
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:34,320
Are you proud?

273
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:35,320
Yeah.

274
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:36,320
I have several pages.

275
00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,800
I do too.

276
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:45,360
So one of the articles that I went through focused on someone named Andrew Tate.

277
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,120
And I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with him.

278
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,960
This is a little bit of an older story, but I think it's important to bring stories like

279
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,520
this to light.

280
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,360
So he was someone that he was on the show Big Brother, which I've never watched.

281
00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:58,840
Have you ever watched Big Brother?

282
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,600
I think I've seen clips, but I haven't actually watched.

283
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,480
I'm not super familiar with what it is.

284
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:04,480
Isn't it on MTV?

285
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:05,480
Yeah, it was an MTV show.

286
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,320
But I think like all the people live in the same house.

287
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,320
They do.

288
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:11,320
Yeah.

289
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:18,680
Anyway, so he was on there and got kicked off for a video that surfaced of him very

290
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:20,280
extremely abusing a woman.

291
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,320
The reason that he is of interest in this story here for us.

292
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,240
Because just like Britney Spears said, he is toxic.

293
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:28,680
He is toxic.

294
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:29,680
Yes.

295
00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:33,640
But also he became someone of great influence.

296
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:38,720
He at one point, I don't know if this is still true, but at one point had over 9 million

297
00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:42,520
followers over on Twitter, which is now X.

298
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:43,760
I'm so confused.

299
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:44,760
It's very strange.

300
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:53,720
But at one point he did and he was very, very vocal about what men are supposed to be and

301
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,200
what women are supposed to be.

302
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,240
He called his followers the war room.

303
00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,240
Great.

304
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:00,240
Yeah.

305
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:05,880
He talked about how men need to fight to reorient the world around themselves.

306
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:10,840
He also then talked about, I just, I just have to like quote this because it's, I just

307
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:11,840
can't.

308
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,560
He believes that women are barely sentient.

309
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:18,240
Just pause there for a moment.

310
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:22,220
How do you speak to any other human being on the planet?

311
00:14:22,220 --> 00:14:25,200
Any other human being at all?

312
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,920
And say, you can barely turn your head to breathe.

313
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:35,800
You literally can barely keep yourself alive purely because you're a woman.

314
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,560
Like that makes no sense.

315
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:45,480
I don't, I, I can't even really respond to it because it is so far from what I can even

316
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:46,480
understand.

317
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,680
Does he forget who birthed him?

318
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:48,920
Or anything.

319
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:56,560
Like look at women across the world, leading businesses, leading countries, leading their

320
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,560
families.

321
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,480
He wouldn't go to a female doctor and be like, Oh, you're barely, barely able to turn your

322
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:02,480
head to breathe.

323
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,240
Like, I know he wouldn't go to a female doctor.

324
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:05,240
He's the worst.

325
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,240
And if he did, she would kick him in the face.

326
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:08,600
Or worse.

327
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:10,180
Further along.

328
00:15:10,180 --> 00:15:15,480
So obviously this man has found himself with a lot of influence.

329
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,100
Horrifying, but that has attracted people.

330
00:15:19,100 --> 00:15:21,600
That attitude has attracted 9 million people.

331
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,480
And part of it, I think is just the love of controversy.

332
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:29,600
We just love to watch the world burn a little bit, but at the same time, I think people

333
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:31,680
like that power dynamic.

334
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,640
It's going to attract people saying, yeah, I should have absolute power.

335
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,840
And look, this guy says so too.

336
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,800
And I think the danger is like social media.

337
00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,640
Yes, pretty much everybody uses it, but a lot of young people use it.

338
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,280
They think, Oh, you know, it's, it's against the norm.

339
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,240
It's interesting.

340
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:58,520
So yes, you're going to attract a lot of young people and you're going to fill their heads

341
00:15:58,520 --> 00:15:59,520
with garbage.

342
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:00,520
Yeah.

343
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:04,800
If you give them a definitive, this is how the world is supposed to be, it makes a little

344
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,320
bit more sense when you're younger.

345
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:07,320
Yeah.

346
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,440
It's easier when things are black and white.

347
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:10,440
Right.

348
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,400
And so he has found himself with all this influence.

349
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,960
Now as he went along to just prove what a horrifying human being he is, in case I haven't

350
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:27,840
made that clear yet, in I believe it was 2022, so end of 2022, a great year, not for him.

351
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:36,840
He was arrested in Romania with his brother and two Romanian women on counts of human

352
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:45,520
trafficking, creating a criminal gang to sexually exploit women and further charges that I won't

353
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,520
say because then I have to mark this as explicit.

354
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:55,960
So, he now is standing against charges on all of those things in Romania and the UK

355
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,880
has additional warrants against him.

356
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,760
They're just waiting to extradite him until he stands trial for all of this stuff.

357
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,760
That's insane.

358
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:11,400
So now are we saying that all people that subscribe to this toxic masculinity crap are

359
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,120
going to go this far?

360
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:17,480
No, but that's where the thought process leads.

361
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:27,200
If you can't respect women, if your ideology says to you, I am superior to women, then

362
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,840
they have no value.

363
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,640
So yeah, I mean, human trafficking isn't that big of a deal if-

364
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,960
That person has no value.

365
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:36,960
Exactly.

366
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,000
If they mean nothing, then who cares?

367
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:48,360
You have to give other people value in order for harming them to have consequences.

368
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:53,560
And they do not have to earn your respect or earn their place.

369
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,360
You do not have the right to anybody else.

370
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,600
I think that's a really good point that we should bring up.

371
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:07,760
I think men who subscribe to this specifically, it's very much like respect, right?

372
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:08,880
That's the big thing.

373
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:13,880
I think we've mentioned this before in the podcast, but you'll hear this in churchy circles.

374
00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,280
Men want respect and women want love, which is utter garbage.

375
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,240
I want to be respected.

376
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,360
Men also want love.

377
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:23,440
Women also want respect.

378
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,560
We all want both of those things.

379
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:33,160
As people, we want to be loved and also respected.

380
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:41,560
And you should respect the people around you as people, as people deserving of the same

381
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,200
rights as you.

382
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:49,560
And if we're going to talk biblically, the Bible specifically says, God created men and

383
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,200
women in his own image.

384
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,960
Male and female, he created them.

385
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:59,960
Did you know actually the English standard version of the Bible, that verse, I gotta

386
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:05,840
look it up, it says he created men in his own image.

387
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:11,520
I think we're obsessed with finding the differences as a culture, as a society.

388
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,920
We're obsessed with finding the differences between men and women and defining them so

389
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,480
differently.

390
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:23,120
And we do not think about how similar we are as just people.

391
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:24,120
People want respect.

392
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:25,120
People want love.

393
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:28,720
That was one of the things that was said to me when we first started this podcast was,

394
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,800
well, you can't deny that men and women are different.

395
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:33,480
They're different.

396
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,520
We just love to hold on to that.

397
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,120
There's like one thing that's different about us.

398
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,000
Maybe two things.

399
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,280
Maybe three.

400
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,520
But we're desperate to hold on to that.

401
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,520
Men and women are different.

402
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:49,520
We're different.

403
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,520
We're different.

404
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:51,520
But why?

405
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:52,520
Why?

406
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:53,520
Why do you want that?

407
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:58,700
I can like whatever I want to like, whether it's stereotypically masculine or stereotypically

408
00:19:58,700 --> 00:19:59,700
feminine.

409
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:05,100
I can pursue whatever career I want, whether it's stereotypically masculine or feminine.

410
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:06,580
Just in general.

411
00:20:06,580 --> 00:20:10,720
Because I like doing something traditionally masculine.

412
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,280
Does not make me a man.

413
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,000
I'm a woman and I'm allowed to like what I want to like.

414
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,000
Well when you make such-

415
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,480
And I don't have to like embroidery.

416
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:18,960
Thank you very much.

417
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:25,320
When you make such distinct boxes for people, it becomes very hard to feel comfortable in

418
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,280
your own skin.

419
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,220
Like I have a very assertive personality.

420
00:20:30,220 --> 00:20:33,120
And I've always said that.

421
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:39,840
And I have struggled with that a lot of my life because I was told that's not what a

422
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,880
Christian woman is.

423
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:48,320
And I think we talked about this in our first episode, in our stories episode, where I said

424
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:55,360
I felt out of place in the church because I was a strong vocal assertive woman.

425
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:56,920
And that's not what I was told.

426
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,160
That's not what I was supposed to be because we have these tiny, tiny boxes of what women

427
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,600
look like and what men look like.

428
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,160
And that leads to toxic masculinity.

429
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:13,420
And think about an amazing God created men and women.

430
00:21:13,420 --> 00:21:16,160
Why are we trying to make him smaller?

431
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:20,200
Think about all of creation, what he created.

432
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,520
And yet he's going to think of men and women and put them in these little boxes?

433
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,920
No, there's so much more to us that we just deny.

434
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,640
I want to circle back to those translations that I was talking about.

435
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:36,320
So it's Genesis 1.27.

436
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:41,200
And we've talked in the past about the different versions of the Bible and how some of them

437
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:48,000
were written with a lot of this toxic masculinity crap imbued in them.

438
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,280
That was kind of the purpose of them.

439
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,800
So that's the English Standard Version.

440
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,640
So first I'm going to read to you from the New Living Translation, which has a lot less

441
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:56,640
gender bias.

442
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,720
It was kind of written in such a way that things were more gender neutral.

443
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,240
And done because that was found in the original texts.

444
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,640
So Genesis 1.27 in the New Living Translation says,

445
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,840
So God created human beings in his own image.

446
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,440
In the image of God, he created them male and female, he created them.

447
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,240
Now let's look at that in the English Standard Version.

448
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,240
I wish you would.

449
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,400
I wish I didn't have to.

450
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,200
So then the English Standard Version, same verse, says,

451
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,680
So God created man in his own image.

452
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,000
In the image of God, he created him.

453
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,520
Male and female, he created them.

454
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:41,800
Gotta love that.

455
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:48,240
And that's confusing for people who haven't looked into multiple different versions or

456
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,760
the historical aspect behind when those translations were written.

457
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:54,760
Which one do you believe?

458
00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:03,560
But I think we can circle back to toxic masculinity traits, not just violence.

459
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,080
There's other things tied to that.

460
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,840
Like we said before, homophobia.

461
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,680
I have more to say on that.

462
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,920
But a need for control, we kind of touched on that.

463
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,040
Promiscuity.

464
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,640
Being a man means that you can sleep around however much you want, but as a woman, you're

465
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,800
not allowed to because your virginity is your greatest gift.

466
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:24,800
And your hair.

467
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:25,800
And your hair.

468
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:26,800
Sorry, mom.

469
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:31,840
I thought of an idea for a TikTok.

470
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,440
We clip together all the time so we say sorry, mom.

471
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,560
Do you know how long that will take?

472
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:39,560
And sorry, grandma.

473
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,560
We say that a lot.

474
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,960
Using to help with household duties because they think they're beneath them.

475
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,760
Risk taking.

476
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,480
So stupid.

477
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,800
Sexual aggression towards women.

478
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,600
We kind of spoke on that.

479
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:55,840
Stoicism.

480
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,360
So like a lack of emotions.

481
00:23:57,360 --> 00:24:01,600
Lack of emotion because they're always told that women are the emotional ones and women

482
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,800
are weak, so therefore emotions are weak.

483
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:09,900
Real quick, I saw something one time and it was like the biggest joke on humanity is that

484
00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:12,960
men have rebranded anger as not an emotion.

485
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,200
Yes, I've seen that.

486
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:22,080
In my experience, men are 100% more emotional than women.

487
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:23,720
It's different emotions.

488
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,400
And they don't know how to channel it and they don't know how to deal with it, whereas

489
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,320
women have kind of learned how to deal with their emotions.

490
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:36,720
Well because stereotypically we teach men to tamp down those emotions.

491
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:41,160
As parents throughout the world, we're teaching our boys tamp down those emotions.

492
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,160
Don't talk about it.

493
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,160
Don't feel it.

494
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:44,160
Don't whatever.

495
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,160
So then when those emotions come out, they don't have a way to handle them.

496
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:55,440
Whereas for women, we're hopefully, and again this is just generalizations, but hopefully

497
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:01,880
we're teaching our daughters a little bit more of how to handle a wide range of emotions.

498
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,760
Yeah, like you're feeling sad.

499
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,500
I understand that.

500
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:07,160
Let's sit down and talk about it.

501
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,160
Let's breathe for a second.

502
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,720
The world isn't ending.

503
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,320
Whereas men get sad but then they get angry because they are sad.

504
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,320
And they can't tell anyone they're sad.

505
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,000
And they throw away all their stuff.

506
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:23,640
Yeah, like access to mental health services, not as prevalent with men because they don't

507
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,320
know how to deal with their emotions.

508
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:30,200
And it's not socially acceptable to seek help.

509
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:36,440
It took me a long time through our marriage for me to be able to talk Nathan into seeing

510
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:37,880
a therapist.

511
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,920
And he's really not like this at all, but even not like that.

512
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,040
And that's why we want to bring him on later and have him talk about this.

513
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,200
It's like men don't go to therapy.

514
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,080
That's still running through his brain.

515
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:49,680
They don't believe in therapy.

516
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,840
I've heard that several times too.

517
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,880
When honestly I'm telling you, I'm constantly in therapy.

518
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,120
I love therapy.

519
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:00,640
And I think it's so good for people.

520
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,920
Even when you're not going through a crisis.

521
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,920
I think that's the best time to be in therapy because then you can deal with your little

522
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,160
day to day stuff.

523
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,640
You're building a good foundation for when those bigger issues come up.

524
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,440
You're able to handle them a little bit easier.

525
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,840
Your house isn't gonna blow over.

526
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,440
So another article that I went through.

527
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:21,440
Look at us reading.

528
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:22,920
I know, I'm so proud of us.

529
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,080
Turns out we are illiterate.

530
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,080
Well we knew I was.

531
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:27,080
We were questioning you.

532
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,760
And I've always said that.

533
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,560
So then the question starts to become like, what is biblical masculinity?

534
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,880
So I read another article and this was from 2020.

535
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,600
So it's a little bit further back.

536
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,400
But it was written by a former evangelical pastor.

537
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:49,880
And he was talking about the toxic masculinity that he saw in the world around him.

538
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:55,780
And he kind of was part of it and has now obviously moved past that.

539
00:26:55,780 --> 00:27:00,560
So in this article he talks about a conference that he went to.

540
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,880
And the speaker was talking about how to grow your church.

541
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,080
And I've worked at churches.

542
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,760
The spaces that I have been in and the pastors that I have talked to, it just is so often

543
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,960
about how big can I make my church.

544
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,080
So that was what the conference was about, was growing your church.

545
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,640
Or at least this was, this speaker was part of the conference.

546
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:29,080
And the speaker said that in order to grow your church, you need to get more men involved.

547
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,120
Because obviously.

548
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:35,280
And he said that churches have too many women.

549
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:40,320
Honestly there are just so, so many women.

550
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,120
And I've had enough of the embroidery.

551
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:45,000
They're not even focusing.

552
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:52,400
So he said that about women attending and in key leadership positions.

553
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,800
And I'm sure he tried to hedge it a little bit because you can't exactly say that beyond

554
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:57,800
film.

555
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:04,880
But he went on to argue for complementarianism, gender roles, men being elders, pastors, leaders,

556
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,280
you know, as you do.

557
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:11,760
If you haven't heard about these things, go ahead and listen to all the rest of our podcasts.

558
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:17,440
And talked about how women can hold small roles, but that they're not designed to carry

559
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:21,720
the weight of real leadership because we can barely turn our heads to breathe.

560
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,480
What will we do?

561
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,120
So this, and he referenced first Timothy 212.

562
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:31,360
So this is from the NIV.

563
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:35,400
So we've talked about this before, but it says, this is from Paul writing to Timothy

564
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,800
in his church and he says, I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over

565
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,160
a man she must be quiet.

566
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,640
Now I'm not going to get super deep into this one right now because we have talked about

567
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,520
this in the past and we will continue to talk about it.

568
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:54,080
But if you are hearing that and you're confused why that's in the Bible, remember that Paul

569
00:28:54,080 --> 00:29:01,040
absolutely had women teach and preach and sent Phoebe off with his book of Romans to

570
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:07,040
teach the Roman church and had Prisca teaching other men.

571
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:12,240
So listen to our other podcasts as well on this, but if this is all you're hearing, please

572
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,960
don't be confused.

573
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,440
Sometimes translations suck.

574
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,440
Translation suck.

575
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:25,920
And also know that a lot of times Paul would quote the Roman rule and then he would refute

576
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:26,920
it.

577
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,880
And a lot of times also Paul was talking about a specific situation.

578
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,700
So I think historically in certain contexts that like he would be talking to a church

579
00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:41,040
where I believe in this context he was talking to Timothy's church who had a lot of women

580
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,660
who had not been allowed to learn up until this point.

581
00:29:44,660 --> 00:29:48,840
And so when they were coming to these house churches, they were very loud and boisterous

582
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:53,160
and asking all kinds of questions and it was distracting everybody else.

583
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:58,560
And so Paul was essentially saying like, learn, but learn quietly so other people can learn

584
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:59,560
too.

585
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:00,560
Right.

586
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:05,200
Not all women throughout time, but this specific church at this specific time.

587
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,400
Because remember Paul didn't write this to every church.

588
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,600
He wrote it to Timothy's church.

589
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,880
So if it was correct for every church, then he's leaving the rest of them in sin and only

590
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,560
caring about Timothy's church apparently.

591
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,560
Oh, Timothy.

592
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:21,160
So anyway, the speaker from this article heading back there, he said that churches are too

593
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,360
feminine for modern day men.

594
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,560
Bri, we put up too many lace curtains.

595
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:26,560
I told you.

596
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,560
I knew it.

597
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,500
I knew it all along.

598
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:31,320
We painted it pink and we weren't supposed to.

599
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,480
I thought it was supposed to look like Barbie's dream house.

600
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,320
I'm confused.

601
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:43,400
So essentially he said that churches need to offer tougher, more manly events to attract

602
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:44,400
the men.

603
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,400
Leather, cigars, taxidermy.

604
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:46,400
No, no cigars.

605
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,840
Just the smell of cigars.

606
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,080
And hunting and fishing and you got to kill some stuff.

607
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,360
Yeah.

608
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:09,400
So in order to do that, he said you need to embrace a muscular Christianity model.

609
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,120
Then going on to say if you get the men, you'll get the whole family.

610
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,840
If you get the women, apparently the family just dies in a river.

611
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,440
But if you get the men, you get the men, the whole family will follow.

612
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,180
And this is something that Christian churches actually do still talk about.

613
00:31:25,180 --> 00:31:32,520
This is not an uncommon thing where they say there's a set of statistics that say that

614
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,800
if a man comes to church, his whole family will come.

615
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,280
And if a woman comes to church, and I don't have the exact statistics, but if a woman

616
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,160
comes to church, the family is much less likely to come.

617
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,280
Which at least in our experience is not true.

618
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,280
Not at all true.

619
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,540
And biblically it's not true.

620
00:31:50,540 --> 00:31:54,680
You can look at women in the Bible who created house churches.

621
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:55,780
It doesn't talk about their husbands.

622
00:31:55,780 --> 00:31:57,080
It doesn't talk about anybody else.

623
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,680
It talks about them bringing their family to church.

624
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,280
They're being bossed.

625
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,280
Bees.

626
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,280
Yeah.

627
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,440
And on top of that, this statistic that keeps getting quoted, it doesn't actually, like

628
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,600
there's no basis for it.

629
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:10,960
Nobody can find where it came from.

630
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,720
It's just something that's been quoted so many times that people kind of think, oh well

631
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,920
clearly it's true.

632
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:23,920
So this speaker said start up rugged ministries that only appeal to men and their sons.

633
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,320
They can appeal to women.

634
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,600
Things like eating steaks and talking about men's issues and feelings, but not too much.

635
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,600
Not too many feelings.

636
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:38,240
And you should have retreats that only have male speakers that talk about male based things.

637
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,240
And in order to attract these tougher men, you have to make ministries that are cool,

638
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,720
tough, and rugged.

639
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,480
And this will make men want to be part of the church and it'll get them saved.

640
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,920
Now I just, I would like to back off of, I know we're like making fun of this a lot,

641
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,120
which is what we do as people, but I want to back off of it for a second and ask the

642
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,960
question where did Jesus say that?

643
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,320
Like we say all the time, give me a verse.

644
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:07,320
Give me a verse.

645
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:14,100
Jesus never said in order to attract people to me, you've got to be manly.

646
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:15,100
You've got to kill some stuff.

647
00:33:15,100 --> 00:33:16,400
You've got to eat a lot of steak.

648
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:22,840
I think the point of Christianity is that God is the reason that people are attracted

649
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:23,840
to you.

650
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,240
That's what sets us apart.

651
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,840
That's our little light that we have to let shine and God does the rest.

652
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,340
Well, and who was Jesus?

653
00:33:31,340 --> 00:33:35,760
Was Jesus this rugged, intense man?

654
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,400
Like I don't see any evidence of that in the Bible.

655
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,880
No, but thousands and thousands of people followed him and think about even now people

656
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:43,880
follow him.

657
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,280
They say Jesus was the most impactful, even non-religious people will say Jesus was the

658
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,280
most impactful figure in history.

659
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:56,480
One of the things that I wanted to ask is, and this is a little bit like pointed, but

660
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:57,960
I don't care.

661
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:58,960
Have you ever?

662
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:00,960
I know.

663
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,080
If you think your church is not like this, if you're sitting there going, well, thank

664
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:10,820
goodness my church is not like this, ask yourself if that's true.

665
00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:16,320
Now maybe from the pulpit, they're not saying, yeah, men are better, men are masculine and

666
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,880
we need to have masculine stuff.

667
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:28,640
But maybe they have ministries that only the masculine men are invited to journey on.

668
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:34,880
Now I'm not saying that you can't have a men's or women's small group and separate people

669
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:40,560
out like that because I do know that personally I'm more comfortable opening up and sharing

670
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,480
in a group of women, it makes me feel safer.

671
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,840
I'm not saying that there's not some place for a small group, just like you might cater

672
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,320
to a specific age group.

673
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,720
You might have a under 30 group.

674
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:59,680
Or if you're me, a small group of divorcees that I somehow was a part of and was not a

675
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:00,680
divorcee.

676
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:06,600
I'm not saying that there's not a place for that, but what does that ministry look like?

677
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:13,520
Does it look like men encouraging other men to be strong Christians who love Jesus and

678
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,160
exemplify Jesus?

679
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,520
Or does it look like men telling other men to be masculine?

680
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,360
And we can only talk about X, Y, Z because that's what's on the masculine list.

681
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,360
How to get more power.

682
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,440
Right.

683
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,440
What does it look like?

684
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,320
How to be more dominant, assert your authority.

685
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,720
Really analyze that in your churches.

686
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:38,440
I think that's critically important if you're looking for a church, if you are asking yourself

687
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,240
if your church is the right place anymore.

688
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:48,280
Bree and I have been through a lot of churches and we've had to ask this question a lot.

689
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:55,120
And it's difficult because sometimes you do get involved somewhere and then you realize,

690
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,280
oh hey, I've fallen into the same trap.

691
00:35:58,280 --> 00:35:59,280
Yep.

692
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,440
Yet again, I thought this was different.

693
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,080
So I think it's important to ask that question.

694
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:13,200
But then the article goes on to ask if the problem for this toxic Christian masculinity

695
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,320
stuff is Christianity itself.

696
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,680
Now I wasn't explaining this very well to Bree earlier so she got a little confused.

697
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,920
So I'm going to try and be more clear.

698
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,120
I am easily confused so it's fine.

699
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:34,400
So according to people who believe in this toxic masculinity for Christian men, they

700
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:35,400
don't think they would call it that.

701
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:36,880
They wouldn't call it that.

702
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,400
They would call it masculinity for Christian men.

703
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:40,400
Yes.

704
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:41,400
They would drop the toxic.

705
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:42,400
You never know.

706
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,360
Some of them are a little crazy.

707
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:51,080
But in order to believe that Christianity becomes a little bit of an issue, Jesus becomes

708
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:55,720
a little bit of a problem because Jesus didn't exemplify this.

709
00:36:55,720 --> 00:37:01,440
And so the author has a quote here from Mark Driscoll who is a pastor who I personally

710
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,000
didn't know a whole lot about.

711
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,000
I've heard the name.

712
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,120
Yeah, I've heard the name but that's about it.

713
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:13,320
He is a big mega church pastor though I do know that with a lot of influence and hopefully

714
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,700
that disturbs you after I read this quote because it disturbed me.

715
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:18,700
So this is a quote from him.

716
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:22,920
He says, there is a strong drift toward the hard theological left.

717
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,840
Some emergent types want to recast Jesus as a limp wrist hippie in a dress with a lot

718
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:33,160
of product in his hair who drank decaf and made pithy zen statements about life while

719
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,040
shopping for the perfect pair of shoes.

720
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:41,480
In Revelation, Jesus is a pride fighter with a tattoo down his leg, a sword in his hand,

721
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,220
and the commitment to make someone else bleed.

722
00:37:44,220 --> 00:37:45,720
That is a guy I can worship.

723
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:51,120
I cannot worship the hippie diaper halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat

724
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,760
up.

725
00:37:54,760 --> 00:38:02,360
I'm gonna let that sink in just for a second but also I feel like if that's not blasphemy

726
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,600
I don't know what is.

727
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:05,720
That's insane.

728
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:06,720
It's insane.

729
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:09,760
They only had dresses back then.

730
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,760
They didn't have pants.

731
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,800
And they didn't have hair product.

732
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:15,800
They had oil.

733
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,000
They also didn't have decaf coffee.

734
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:25,120
But let's... there's a lot... I could do a whole podcast on this.

735
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:32,440
But let's talk about first of all that he's pulled out Jesus in Revelations as opposed

736
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,960
to Jesus when he was on the earth.

737
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:41,080
So Jesus in the end times when really we don't have a lot of information on what that's gonna

738
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,160
look like, you know, because it has not happened, because it has not happened, as opposed to

739
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:51,440
Jesus when he was on the earth and said, hey look at me, follow me.

740
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,320
The historical actual account of Jesus.

741
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:56,680
When he was here.

742
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:57,920
When he loved people.

743
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,840
And all of this stuff that he's saying, he drank decaf.

744
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,840
Is that an insult?

745
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,200
Can I just... is that... to me it is.

746
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,720
I mean we don't drink decaf.

747
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:11,480
But like if you drink decaf are you less of a Christian?

748
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:12,480
Are you less of a man?

749
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,120
Are you less of a person?

750
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,400
What in heaven's name?

751
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,040
If you use hair product, I guarantee you this man, he's on TV.

752
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:20,680
I guarantee you he's using hair product.

753
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,600
In fact, I guarantee you he's got makeup on his face when he's on TV.

754
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,040
Does that make you less of a Christian or of a man?

755
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,040
I don't understand.

756
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,040
It doesn't.

757
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:30,040
I don't understand.

758
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,840
There's a verse that says essentially you'll know who they are by their fruit.

759
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:39,640
You'll know who they are by their goodness, not by their hate towards other people.

760
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:45,360
I think this is actually super relevant to this in particular because he is a pastor

761
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:50,040
and the label, the little header, which again is added by translators, but the little header

762
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,920
for this section is true and false prophets.

763
00:39:52,920 --> 00:40:01,560
I'm proud of you.

764
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:07,100
So this section is Matthew 7, 15 through 20 and it says watch out for false prophets.

765
00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:13,240
They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

766
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:14,240
Sheep's clothing.

767
00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,240
By their fruit, you will recognize them.

768
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:20,560
Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles?

769
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:26,400
Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

770
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:31,040
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

771
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:37,680
I think that's perfect because it does talk about it's your attitude that people know

772
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,600
Christ through you.

773
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:47,440
And when your attitude is like Mark Driscoll's and it's, well I only have respect for people

774
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,940
I can beat up.

775
00:40:49,940 --> 00:40:51,940
That's not Christ.

776
00:40:51,940 --> 00:40:52,940
That's alienating.

777
00:40:52,940 --> 00:40:55,080
Well, first of all, I don't know your workout routine.

778
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,760
I don't know who you're beating up, but how many people are you alienating?

779
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,400
How many people can you not respect?

780
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,120
Well, that's what it boils down to is it boils down to you can't respect anyone that is not

781
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,440
physically stronger than you.

782
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,820
So then who else don't you respect?

783
00:41:11,820 --> 00:41:16,800
Because I'm going to guess most of the biblical characters weren't weightlifters.

784
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:25,440
Are you not respecting Abraham, who did most of his work when he was old?

785
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:33,280
Or Ruth, who it's unlikely was super physically strong or had the opportunity to be so?

786
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,480
Jesus himself?

787
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:35,480
Right.

788
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:41,840
Like, if he isn't a super buff gym guy, you can't respect him?

789
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,920
And then pull that into modern day.

790
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,000
So now I assume that this man thinks all women are weaker than him.

791
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,040
So just going based off that, not that all women actually are weaker than him.

792
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,040
I feel like I could take him with a shiv.

793
00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:02,040
But going based off of that of his assumption, now he can't respect any women.

794
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,640
He can't respect any differently abled people.

795
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,340
He can't respect children.

796
00:42:08,340 --> 00:42:12,620
He can't respect anyone that isn't as physically strong as he is.

797
00:42:12,620 --> 00:42:15,580
And he's leading how many people?

798
00:42:15,580 --> 00:42:17,040
What about the elderly?

799
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,760
You can't respect your elders because that's quite literally biblical.

800
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,500
So then the rest of this article goes on to talk about in this perspective.

801
00:42:24,500 --> 00:42:29,020
Now this isn't what the author thinks, but from this perspective, he said, what do women

802
00:42:29,020 --> 00:42:32,960
even do in this view of the world?

803
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,720
What is even the point of women other than to pop out babies?

804
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:43,720
And he said that according to these people, women just need to submit sexually and socially

805
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:46,020
to fulfill their role.

806
00:42:46,020 --> 00:42:50,440
This obviously would make them the happiest if they just did those little things.

807
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:51,440
Obviously.

808
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:56,600
It's so simple to not have any personality whatsoever.

809
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,420
They also need to hold up their husband's ego.

810
00:42:59,420 --> 00:43:04,240
This is me being a little sassy, but just because he can't hold it up on his own, he

811
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:05,520
might just fall right over.

812
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,940
It's a big ego.

813
00:43:06,940 --> 00:43:09,040
It needs a lot of people to hold it up.

814
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,040
Maybe multiple wives.

815
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,720
Maybe.

816
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:20,360
And also that wives need to be well-kept and pretty at all times because if they aren't,

817
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,400
their husbands might be liable to just run off and find someone else who's prettier and

818
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,640
lovelier and clearly that's their fault because they didn't put on enough makeup today.

819
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,360
I'm looking at you and I right now.

820
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:31,920
We're not looking great.

821
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,040
We're not looking great.

822
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:35,040
I did shower.

823
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,280
Brought to you.

824
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,640
It's just the whole concept of it.

825
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,320
And is this taking it a little far?

826
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:49,100
Maybe, but I don't think this is taking it out of the realm of what someone who subscribes

827
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:54,680
to a toxic masculinity attitude would say.

828
00:43:54,680 --> 00:44:02,200
It makes it very hard if you're surrounded by that constantly to want to follow Christ.

829
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,360
To want to be a Christian at all.

830
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,600
You see women, and like I said, we've said this before, but women are leaving churches

831
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:09,600
in droves.

832
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,840
They are running from the church.

833
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,920
Why?

834
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:16,000
Because of this.

835
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,600
Because that's the reputation of the church right now is hate.

836
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:25,360
You look at our TikTok for example, and I love that we're getting interaction over there

837
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,600
because it's showing me what people's attitude is towards things like this.

838
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,040
My husband's there.

839
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:38,000
But we've gotten a lot of comments when we post clips from the episodes of like, well

840
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,760
the church just hates women.

841
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,080
Well the church is a business and they're trying to bring families in because they want

842
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,080
more money.

843
00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,520
Well, the church wants to tamp women down, so why would you be there?

844
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,280
Why not just leave?

845
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,640
And those are the kinds of comments that we're seeing and I'm so glad that people feel comfortable

846
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,560
enough to say that to us.

847
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,320
Coming from a church position because I want to hear that.

848
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,760
I want to hear that you've had these kinds of problems.

849
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:10,440
Because if we're stuck in our own bubble all the time, how are we supposed to further God's

850
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:11,440
mission?

851
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:16,520
How are we supposed to share the love that we know that is truly there?

852
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:22,440
And I think that's what we're trying to do here is to pull back all of this, all of the

853
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:29,000
submission and the masculinity and whatever, to say there is a loving book underneath all

854
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,360
of this that we've lost.

855
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:38,800
Because we've covered it in our social expectations and in power and in all of these things we've

856
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:44,200
covered it and the book is in there, it's down there, Jesus is trying to shout as loud

857
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,440
as he can and we're not listening.

858
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,640
Nope.

859
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:54,640
We're so obsessed with the rules and we're so obsessed with the definitions, trying to

860
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,960
define men and women and making them separate as much as we can and you're right, we've

861
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:00,680
lost the love.

862
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,160
We've completely lost the love.

863
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:08,680
Okay, so we are going to jump into our interview portion.

864
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,800
I titled it Interview with a Man.

865
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,440
I'm so proud.

866
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:21,560
So we asked my husband Nathan if he would come up the stairs and record with us because

867
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:29,640
we want to learn a little bit more about what toxic masculinity looks like from a man's perspective.

868
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,240
If he even thinks it's toxic.

869
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:33,040
We don't know yet, we have not interviewed him.

870
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,640
That's true, I'm sorry for the influence, Nathan.

871
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,000
Alright, so Bree's going to ask some questions because otherwise she's going to feel like

872
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,680
a real third wheel.

873
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,480
That's a direct quote.

874
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,480
From myself.

875
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:45,480
Okay, Nathan.

876
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:46,480
Hi, I'm Nathan.

877
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:52,720
I am Alyssa's husband and long time listener of the podcast.

878
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:59,320
Thank you so much for having me here today and I am terrified of your questions.

879
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,920
Oh no.

880
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,480
Okay, I'm moving on.

881
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:11,200
What are things you were taught as a child that would make you more manly or were you

882
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,600
ever taught things that would make you more manly?

883
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,280
Is that insulting?

884
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:23,000
I don't think I was, I don't remember anything directly like, you know, like you gotta do

885
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:24,840
this, be this way to be manly.

886
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,000
I do remember like one instance where me and my one friend, we were outside riding our

887
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,840
bikes after it rained and we both fell and got really bloody knees and I remember his

888
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:39,000
dad would not let him put a bandaid on his knee because, you know, that's for women.

889
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,000
What?

890
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,000
Because women bleed.

891
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:51,400
Yeah, he let him put a pad on his knee.

892
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:52,400
That's insane.

893
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:53,400
That's insane.

894
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:59,520
I remember thinking though like, oh maybe I shouldn't have a bandaid on my bloody knee,

895
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:00,520
but then I did.

896
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:04,160
Because like health and wellbeing is only for women.

897
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,440
Well I mean that's what your statistics said.

898
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,920
Men are less likely to seek medical attention.

899
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,160
That's very true.

900
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,400
Do you have anything more to say on that?

901
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:14,400
No.

902
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,160
Okay, I'm moving on to question two.

903
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:23,960
In your own words, not in anybody else's words, what does it mean to be a man?

904
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:30,440
Well, I don't know, I think that's kind of a loaded question to some degree depending

905
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:36,560
on who you're talking to just because I don't think being a man is really defined as doing

906
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,520
certain things to be a man.

907
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,640
All Jesus calls us to do is to love God and love others.

908
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,200
God doesn't say like, do this to become a man.

909
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,360
He just says, love me and love others.

910
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,200
Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

911
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:53,640
As a person in general?

912
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,120
Okay.

913
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,800
What do you think God wants for men today?

914
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,400
I don't think he wants anything specifically for men.

915
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:03,960
I think his commandment is to love him and love others.

916
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,080
That's all he's asking.

917
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:14,680
And so I think as humans, men and women, we complicate and make the Bible very difficult

918
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,120
for ourselves.

919
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,280
Question number four.

920
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,080
What do you hope to teach your son as he becomes a man?

921
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:33,840
I hope to teach Bibliobab as our son's name, just to be kind, to love people as they are

922
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:39,560
and no matter what they might believe, no matter what they, however they choose to live,

923
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,480
because that's how Jesus loved them.

924
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,600
I don't care what they're doing or how they do it.

925
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:52,200
As long as he's loving them as Jesus called to, then they see God through him by, I don't

926
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,800
know what the word is, by telepath.

927
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,240
Just by seeing him.

928
00:49:58,240 --> 00:49:59,240
Yeah.

929
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:04,920
I think that's a really interesting statement though, because you do not think of kindness

930
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,720
as traditionally masculine.

931
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:08,720
People aren't taught that.

932
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:09,720
That men should be kind.

933
00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:10,720
Yeah.

934
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:13,840
Well, I think our church a couple weeks ago for Father's Day did a pretty good job at

935
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,160
talking about that too, is like the pastor asked, what do you think of when you think

936
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:19,160
of a man?

937
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,960
And he showed a picture of Rambo with his shirt ripped off and his muscles being where

938
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,360
they shouldn't be and all kinds of things.

939
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,320
Then he's like, this is what maybe most of you think of.

940
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:34,720
And then he showed another picture of Mr. Rogers, someone very kind, teaching kids,

941
00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:36,720
things like that.

942
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:43,560
Those attributes of being a man might not be the stereotypical view of people.

943
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:47,480
Just to circle back, I promise that we did not name our son Bibli Bob.

944
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:53,600
However, to all the Bibli Bob's out there, I'm sorry, I don't mean to insult your name.

945
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,360
If your name is Bibli Bob, change your name.

946
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:01,000
Because that is stupid.

947
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,960
That's my grandmother's name.

948
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,680
Question five.

949
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:11,560
If you could go back in time, what is one thing you wish your younger self could know?

950
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,560
It was okay to wear that bandaid.

951
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:18,000
I don't know if I have anything, honestly, specifically that I wish my younger self would

952
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,000
know.

953
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:25,040
Because I don't really feel like I grew up in a situation where women were less than

954
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,040
other men in the church.

955
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,040
I grew up with women speaking in the church.

956
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:31,240
There was women pastors in the church.

957
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:33,200
They all held those titles.

958
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,800
I think that's a huge difference in the way that Nathan grew up versus the way that we

959
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:37,880
grew up.

960
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:43,400
Because we grew up primarily Baptist, sometimes non-denominational churches that are just

961
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,600
secretly Baptist anyway.

962
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:50,360
But Nathan grew up more like Assemblies of God churches.

963
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:55,720
And community churches and things like that that didn't have the Baptist background at

964
00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:57,120
all, I would say.

965
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:01,440
So that's a huge difference that we've been talking through a lot lately.

966
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,120
Yeah, I didn't really know this was a thing.

967
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:09,360
Not even until we got married, probably maybe five years into our marriage, did we really

968
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:16,320
start discussing this being a divide in the Christian community for ourselves as we were

969
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:22,080
trying to be adults and loving the Lord.

970
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,120
Finding one of our millions of churches.

971
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:25,120
Millions.

972
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:29,120
Do you think traditionally Christian men are misunderstood?

973
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:30,840
No.

974
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:39,160
I think men, they tell you how they feel.

975
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,600
Maybe not tell you how they feel, they tell you what they think.

976
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:43,440
I think fairly easily.

977
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:50,280
I just think that instead of listening to others or listening to women specifically,

978
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:54,360
they get stuck in a rut because they're old grouchy men.

979
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,560
Well, I think that ties into what we're talking about in this episode for toxic masculinity

980
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:04,480
and saying that when you think you're right on everything, you don't have to listen to

981
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:05,640
anybody else.

982
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:11,520
You don't have to listen to people who are less than you or who you could beat up.

983
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,420
You don't have to take those opinions into account.

984
00:53:14,420 --> 00:53:19,520
For the most recent church we had just left, something that I can take away from them was

985
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:26,400
is if you put men and women in this box and they don't fit in this box, then they're not

986
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,400
doing the right thing.

987
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:28,560
They're not being a man.

988
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:29,560
They're not being a woman.

989
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:36,480
You really got to go to the Bible and read and see what is God's box.

990
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,360
Again, for a million times, love God and love others.

991
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,160
Those are his two greatest commandments.

992
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,560
That's all he gave you.

993
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:52,840
Do you really think that being the head of the household telling your wife what to do

994
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,400
and how to do it, is that really loving?

995
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,160
I would really challenge that.

996
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:06,200
Well, in the most recent Bertrandt season, she says power is intoxicating and if all

997
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:13,080
you're after is power, then yeah, you're going to be a little drunkard.

998
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:17,360
What are your feelings on the bear analogy?

999
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:18,360
I love bears.

1000
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,160
Give me the overview on the bear analogy again.

1001
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:30,000
Usually it's asking women if you were walking through a forest and you came upon something,

1002
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:37,880
would you rather come upon a bear or a man alone in the forest?

1003
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,960
It's hard to say most because I haven't surveyed all the women.

1004
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,160
I have asked every single woman and they have all agreed.

1005
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,520
I can tell you what TikTok says.

1006
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:53,360
But a lot of women, a surprising majority of women have said they would rather find

1007
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,880
a bear in the woods as opposed to a man.

1008
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:59,680
Yeah, I think that can be very true.

1009
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:08,200
I think as humans, we can hurt each other way more whether it's verbally, physically,

1010
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,880
mentally, whatever that might look like.

1011
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:12,800
We have a lot more options to hurt somebody.

1012
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:18,320
A bear can just, you know, dead.

1013
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:19,320
Yeah kills you and you're done.

1014
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,360
All right, I'm going to ask the next question.

1015
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,040
Were you ever taught to directly respect women?

1016
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,060
Like was that something that you were talked to about?

1017
00:55:29,060 --> 00:55:36,880
Because as women on the other side of things taught, we were taught this is how you respect

1018
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:37,880
men.

1019
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:39,160
This is how you respect your husband.

1020
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:40,620
This is what they expect of you.

1021
00:55:40,620 --> 00:55:44,920
Was that something that you were taught kind of on the flip side?

1022
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,080
And the way that I grew up, no.

1023
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:52,280
I would say that conversations I've had with other guys in my life, friends in my life,

1024
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,240
I would say for them, yes.

1025
00:55:54,240 --> 00:56:00,360
And it's definitely was done by their church and what their church believes in this topic.

1026
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,000
But me specifically, no.

1027
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,000
What kinds of things would you say they were taught?

1028
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:10,840
I mean that they're supposed to be the ones that provide and take care of things and make

1029
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,480
sure everybody's good all the time.

1030
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,800
But I was never taught, oh, I'm the spiritual leader of my household.

1031
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:22,080
I never heard that before until last maybe six years of my life.

1032
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,920
The last five churches we were in.

1033
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:31,840
I think that it's interesting though that you say that they are taught not how to respect

1034
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,900
women, but how to provide for women.

1035
00:56:34,900 --> 00:56:41,800
Like we need them in order to exist and survive as opposed to how to respect us as human beings.

1036
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:42,800
Okay.

1037
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,920
What are your thoughts on toxic masculinity if you have any at all?

1038
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:52,680
I mean I think it's so messed up to me it's hard to really put words into it honestly.

1039
00:56:52,680 --> 00:57:02,240
Because I see so many people that I care about around me being hurt by people who are doing

1040
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:05,040
what they should be doing in the name of God.

1041
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:10,480
I really don't have any tolerance for it to where I'm going to stand there and be like,

1042
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:11,480
oh, that's okay.

1043
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,520
That's just the way they want to live their life.

1044
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:16,920
And I'm not going to go out there and attack them and be hateful.

1045
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,920
But the Bible says to confront your brothers on their wrong doings.

1046
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:24,280
So I'm not going to let them just, if they're doing it in the name of God and they consider

1047
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:30,920
something Christian, I'm not going to sit there and listen to them and respect them

1048
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:31,920
for that.

1049
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,720
Do you think black coffee is the most masculine way to drink your coffee?

1050
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,320
Considering that I know that you put this question in there for me to admit that I only

1051
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:45,640
drink cream and a little bit of coffee.

1052
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:46,640
Just like my grandmother.

1053
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:51,720
She says I'm very wise.

1054
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:57,040
We go to Starbucks and he gets like extra cream in his coffee and it comes out white.

1055
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,840
You don't have to look at the labels.

1056
00:57:58,840 --> 00:57:59,840
You just know who's a Zeus.

1057
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:00,840
Yeah.

1058
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:05,800
I've heard that little jingle on the radio that's like, you're the cream in my coffee.

1059
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,080
That is kind of dirty.

1060
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:10,080
Thank you for that.

1061
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:11,080
All right.

1062
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:18,320
So we're going to say goodbye to Nathan because frankly, I have to edit out enough of this

1063
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:19,400
crap.

1064
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,440
If you listen to everything I said and believe me, you'll be in a good neighborhood in heaven.

1065
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:24,440
Shut up, Nathan.

1066
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:25,440
Say bye, Nathan.

1067
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:26,440
Thank you for your time.

1068
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:27,440
Get out.

1069
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:32,200
This is why it's a sister's only podcast.

1070
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:36,800
I'll tell you that much.

1071
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:41,720
On that note, thank you for being here today.

1072
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:48,760
We appreciate Nathan coming all the way upstairs and answering many a question.

1073
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:49,960
Many a question.

1074
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:51,920
With questionable answers.

1075
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:52,920
Yes.

1076
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:58,880
Anyway, so we hope you enjoyed our discussion on toxic masculinity.

1077
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,880
I don't know if enjoyed is, I keep saying enjoyed.

1078
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,600
I don't think enjoy is a good word here.

1079
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:05,080
We have a lot more to say.

1080
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:06,520
Does anybody want a part two?

1081
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:11,560
Cause we're still, we still have to talk about toxic femininity, but femininity, femininity.

1082
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:13,240
That's a hard word to say.

1083
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:14,240
Not in that song.

1084
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:15,240
That's a good song.

1085
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:16,240
That's a good movie.

1086
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:17,240
Yeah.

1087
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:18,240
Do you want a part two?

1088
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,040
Because I have more to say.

1089
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,680
I think we all have more to say.

1090
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,360
I would love to hear.

1091
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:29,680
We actually, we posted on TikTok for any men that happened to be listening to our feminist

1092
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:30,680
podcast.

1093
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:34,360
If you have any thoughts on toxic masculinity, we love to hear them.

1094
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:35,360
Head over there.

1095
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:41,040
It's we.r.more4 and you can let us know kind of what you think about it.

1096
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,000
Women, we'd love to hear your thoughts too.

1097
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,000
Women!

1098
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,800
So please let us know.

1099
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:47,920
And we'd love to incorporate those in future episodes.

1100
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:48,920
Yes.

1101
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:50,120
Feel free to message us.

1102
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:51,300
Feel free to comment.

1103
00:59:51,300 --> 00:59:53,080
Feel free to send us a carrier pigeon.

1104
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,920
Any way you want to communicate with us is fine.

1105
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:56,640
I dislike birds.

1106
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,440
Please don't send us a pigeon.

1107
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,240
What if it's like enchanted and it talks?

1108
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,680
No, I don't want a talking pigeon.

1109
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:04,800
And no one wants that.

1110
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:05,800
I do.

1111
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:06,800
No, you don't.

1112
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,440
You don't like birds more than I don't like birds.

1113
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,640
A bird flew into our work window the other day and it scared me.

1114
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:12,640
Inside?

1115
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:13,640
No, just ran into the window.

1116
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:14,640
Oh, okay.

1117
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:18,920
All right, well, we'll see you guys next week for our mini episode.

1118
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:20,960
What are we talking about?

1119
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:22,400
Subliminal sexism.

1120
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:23,400
That's it.

1121
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,880
We walked through Target for research purposes.

1122
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:26,880
Research.

1123
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,880
Not for Starbucks or shopping.

1124
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:29,880
Just research.

1125
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:30,880
Just a casual like $100 later.

1126
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:31,880
Fine!

1127
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:32,880
Fine!

1128
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:33,880
Fine!

1129
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:34,880
All right, we'll talk to you guys next week.

1130
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:35,880
Have an awesome week.

1131
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:36,880
We love you!

1132
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:37,880
We love you!

1133
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:51,880
Bye!