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Welcome to the We Are More podcast.

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My name is Alyssa.

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And my name is Bri.

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We are two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism.

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We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach His

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word.

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And apparently that's controversial.

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Get comfy.

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You're a witch.

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That's really hurtful.

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Is it?

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I think, I think so.

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With the way you said it, your inflections.

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I have so many songs to go with that.

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So periodically Bri will just sing, which is pretty par for the course.

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Yeah, it's pretty, pretty much me.

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Yeah, that sounds right.

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I've been thinking, okay, have you seen those things?

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This is old.

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This is like, I'm out of date.

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But have you seen where people go, oh, if I had a starter pack, or if this character

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from this show had a starter pack.

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If I had a starter pack, it would most likely be Birkenstocks, Claw Clips, those waffle

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shirts from Aerie, a Starbucks.

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So you're a basic witch is what you're telling me.

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A bottle of wine and a DJ.

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A DJ?

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I'd be a DJ.

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Oh, you'd be a DJ.

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Not like you'd have one following you around.

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No, we tried that.

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That didn't work.

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So happy Halloween, everyone.

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Happy Halloween.

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Spooky scary skeletons.

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Except not skeletons.

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We're talking about witches.

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We are.

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But you do have, I bought Bree a painting for her birthday.

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And it has spooky scary skeletons on it.

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Except the title of it is The Winds of Change.

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I need you guys to know, I was okay.

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I love to gift give, it's just like part of who I am as a human.

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And Brianna constantly, out of nowhere, goes, do you feel that?

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And there's no context, okay?

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You're talking about something totally different.

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She goes, can you feel that?

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It's the winds of change.

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And so I found this painting.

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And it's a Disney still from, what's it from?

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Fantasia.

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Fantasia, that's it.

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And I mean, we're not like big Fantasia fans or anything, but we are big Disney fans.

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And it's entitled The Winds of Change.

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Guys, I've never been more proud of myself.

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I just need to get a nail and it's going up in my wall.

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I think we have nails.

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I haven't been able to find one lately.

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Absolutely certain.

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But in this house somewhere, there is a nail to be had.

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But do you know what that quote is from?

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I don't.

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Really?

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No.

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Where?

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Where in Monsters Inc is there talking about spooky scary skeletons?

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Randall, he goes, do you feel that?

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Oh, The Winds of Change.

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The Winds of Change.

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Oh.

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I was still on spooky scary skeletons.

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Oh, that, I mean, there are skeletons in Fantasia that-

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But there aren't in Monsters Inc.

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Listen.

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Oh, this is a really different movie than I thought.

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It is.

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Monster skeletons.

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And they will send shivers down your spine.

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Oh, good.

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And anyways.

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So I'm super proud of the fact, and I recognize that this was none of our doing, but I'm so

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proud that this is coming out on Halloween.

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This was God's timing.

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It just makes me feel very accomplished.

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I feel so professional.

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On Halloween, we're talking about witches.

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I'm very excited.

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So guys, I have done an inordinate amount of research.

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Guess what?

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Brie has done none.

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I have done none.

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But Brie researched the last episode.

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Yeah, that's good enough.

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It's fine.

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And also, I have been contributing nothing due to the plague.

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That's okay.

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She had the plague.

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Very appropriate for witches.

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I feel like had is not the term.

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Has.

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Has.

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Still going on.

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Do people get over pneumonia?

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It's a real question.

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Continuous plague.

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I think it might go on till I die, which might be tomorrow.

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This might take all my life.

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But at least if I die tomorrow, I have enough money to really live it up for the next day.

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Live like it's your last day on earth.

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And your last day on earth is today.

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If today is my last day on earth, I'm ditching all you people.

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I'm going to Disney.

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See you bye.

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Very Super Bowl of you.

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Speaking of the Super Bowl, for the day after Black Friday, we have very cool shirts.

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We'll get on topic at some point.

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I like how we're like, speaking of Super Bowl, I have no idea when the Super Bowl is.

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It's not that day.

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It's not Black Friday.

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But football, there was a train of thought there.

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We like to cause waves because it's who we are as people.

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I don't know if you all have noticed.

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But our family is very into like football, particularly on Thanksgiving Black Friday.

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I don't think particularly on.

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I think it's continuous.

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They love football.

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All the time.

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We have to be present for it on the holidays because we're all together in one big house

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for like four days.

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And so for the last, I don't know, for one of the games on Black Friday, I think there's

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multiple games on Black Friday.

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Do not look at me.

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I have no idea.

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But we ordered shirts and a hoodie for my daughter that all say, go Taylor's boyfriend.

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And I'm so excited about it.

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They're still together.

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I don't even care.

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My boss texted me this morning and he was like giving me a list of things to do.

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And at the end, he's like, go blue.

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And I said, is there a game today?

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Go football.

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And he goes, Michigan versus Michigan State is playing I think tomorrow.

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Oh, really?

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Oh, well, go blue then.

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I have made a family brand out of being, if you are not from Michigan, go blue is like

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U of M, University of Michigan.

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And if you say go green, it's Michigan State.

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And I have made a personal brand out of being a Michigan State fan, despite the fact that

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I could not possibly care less about any sport ever because Alyssa solely likes to push the

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buttons of everybody around her.

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Our whole family is U of M fans.

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And I think it's hilarious.

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And whenever anybody asks me about it, I very seriously just say, well, I look better in

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green.

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Yeah.

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And the looks that I get.

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It's worth it.

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It goes better with my eyes.

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It does.

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And my hair.

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It does.

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My personality.

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You know.

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And on to witches.

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So today, we're going to be talking about the Salem witch trials and also the Hartford

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witch trials and also the Pendle witch trials because I did so much research.

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Proud of you.

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Hartford just reminds me of Gilmore Girls.

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I mean, that's exactly where it was.

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So there you go.

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Fantastic.

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So we'll be talking about the Gilmore Girls witches.

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Hope you guys are prepared.

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So we're going to start with the Salem witch trials because I mean, I think that's probably

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why you're all here.

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That's the most famous ones for us here in the United States.

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So the Salem witch trials were between February of 1692 and May of 1693.

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So not like a long time.

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I just almost made a joke about 1692.

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Was it an inappropriate joke?

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No.

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Then make the joke.

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I'm going to sail the ocean blue.

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Well, that's wrong.

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I know.

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Anyway, so I think we think of this as a long period in history.

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And the reality is it was just over a year.

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And really, most of it happened in the summer between those two.

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So the summer of 1692 was when it...the FUROR.

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Can I say something stupid?

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Okay.

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When I think Salem witch trials, I do not think the United States of America.

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Well, I mean, they were still colonies.

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Yeah.

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But I just...I picture it in England.

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Okay.

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Well, that's wrong.

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I can't help you there.

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I just don't want to be associated with it.

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I'm like, send it over the ocean.

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Well, in England...well, in Europe, I guess, between...lots of research, guys.

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Between the early 15th and the early 18th century, 500 people were executed for witchcraft.

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Across the pond.

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So is across the pond.

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So when you do talk about witch trials, globally, Salem is kind of just a blip.

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But for us, because it happened in the country we're living in, and it happened a lot later

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than most of the European witch trials, it seems like in Europe they had kind of...they

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thought they moved on, they thought they were better than this now.

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You know, like, we've moved on, we are better.

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Yeah, like we're more educated, we don't think about this anymore, whatever.

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And then all of a sudden, Salem happens like 80 years after the main ones in Europe.

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Or behind the times.

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Yeah.

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And so it was kind of a big deal.

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So the Salem witch trials started with two young girls.

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One was 9, one was 11.

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Oh, they were babies.

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They were very young.

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I mean, that's my daughter's age, so you're talking about young, young.

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I'm sorry.

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This big of drama started with preteens?

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Yeah.

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What the heck is this?

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We have preteen drama in our history?

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Preteen drama.

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I mean, probably a lot.

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My gosh.

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So their names were Betty Parris and Abigail Williams.

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Now Betty was the daughter of the Reverend Parris.

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So he was the pastor of the Salem area at the time.

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So he would have had a lot of power and influence.

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And then Abigail was her cousin, Betty's cousin.

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And I believe Abigail was living with them at the time.

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And all of a sudden, the girls start acting real weird.

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As all 9 and 11 year olds do.

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But like they're contorting their bodies.

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They just watched The Exorcist and were confused.

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Leave them be.

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They were in the 1690s?

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Yep.

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I don't think so.

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They were just trying to be cheerleaders out in their backyard.

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So they're starting to do weird things.

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They're saying weird things.

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Strange, right?

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Now there's no videos of this.

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I can't sit here and tell you this is exactly what they did.

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They were starting their periods and they had hormones.

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I mean, they were 9 and 11.

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That's what was happening.

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I can tell you right now.

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But I think because they were in the Reverend's house, obviously there was precedent for witch

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trials.

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This was not a new concept.

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It was kind of an old concept.

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But when witch trials come to town, who becomes the most important figure?

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True.

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The Reverend, right?

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The Exorcist.

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I don't think he was exercising anybody.

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I haven't seen The Exorcist all the way through, so all my references probably don't make sense.

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Alright, well, you people out there that are going to watch it tonight because it's Halloween,

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don't listen to Brie.

264
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:37,040
So these two girls, they accused three women of being witches.

265
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:41,780
I think the wording was afflicting them, so essentially coming to them in their dreams

266
00:11:41,780 --> 00:11:45,720
and scratching them or attacking them, things like that.

267
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,080
Yeah, basically.

268
00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,600
So they accused three women and those three women...

269
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,280
Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego.

270
00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,520
So the three women were Tituba.

271
00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:58,920
Whoa, watch your mouth.

272
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,120
So she was actually the slave of Reverend Paris.

273
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,440
So she's in their household, she's an easy target, right?

274
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:07,440
Absolutely.

275
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,720
She's marginalized, she's not important in society.

276
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,120
No one will miss her when she's gone.

277
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,880
Right, so they accused her as one of them.

278
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,320
The other two were Sarah Good and Sarah Osborne.

279
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,160
Oh, I've heard of them.

280
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,920
So these were all women kind of on the outskirts of society.

281
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,440
How can you accuse someone whose last name is Good?

282
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:27,440
Like the Good Witch?

283
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:28,440
They did.

284
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,320
She was the Good Witch of the North.

285
00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:32,320
I don't think so.

286
00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,280
Like Glinda!

287
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:40,400
So one of them was younger, pregnant, she had to beg for money because...

288
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,040
Was she 12?

289
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,040
Maybe.

290
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:44,040
Not that young.

291
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:49,760
But she was begging for money, so again, outskirts of society, not an important person, not someone

292
00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,400
that the girls would have been concerned about in any way.

293
00:12:53,400 --> 00:13:00,960
And then the other woman was an older woman who, from some accounts that I read, had recently

294
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,640
stopped going to church.

295
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,200
Oh, convenient.

296
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:10,800
Yeah, was someone that wasn't super well liked, you know, again, on the outskirts of society.

297
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:17,520
So I feel like putting myself in these 9 and 11 year old shoes, that makes sense, that

298
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,920
they would try to pick people who wouldn't be missed or weren't connected well or...

299
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,160
Well who's gonna question that?

300
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:30,160
These are already people that if we kick them off the island, nobody's gonna care?

301
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:31,160
Which is horrifying.

302
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:32,160
Poor unfortunate souls.

303
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:33,160
Right.

304
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:34,160
But at the same time...

305
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,160
Sea Witch.

306
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:36,160
I caught it.

307
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:37,160
I caught it.

308
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:38,160
Sea Witch.

309
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,160
Thank you.

310
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:46,840
But at the same time, if they had started off accusing really important people, they

311
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,120
probably would have been dismissed.

312
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,240
Even though they did have some level of status, they were related to the Reverend.

313
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,600
As two children.

314
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,600
Right.

315
00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,640
But they had more status than say, these women.

316
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:07,520
So what happened is Tichyba, who's the slave, she confesses.

317
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:13,400
She says she is associated with the devil, she was coming to them in their dreams, whatever.

318
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:20,400
Now she confesses because allegedly she was beat very badly by Reverend Paris.

319
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,600
She was forced into it.

320
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,600
Right.

321
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:24,600
Right.

322
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,960
However, the deal was also throughout all of the Salem Witch Trials, the deal was if

323
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:35,800
you confess and you blame a bunch of other people, you won't be killed.

324
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,520
Which makes zero sense.

325
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,080
None of this makes any sense.

326
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,320
Our history sucks.

327
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,360
But that was kind of the deal.

328
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,600
So on both sides, on the one side she's getting beaten and told you're going to confess to

329
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,360
this whether you like it or not.

330
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,880
And then on the other side, she's trying to save her own life.

331
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,360
Which I mean, can you blame her for heaven's sake?

332
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,960
And I mean, she's in that household.

333
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,920
There's these two girls that she's probably been caring for for as long as they've been

334
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:05,920
alive.

335
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:11,000
She probably feels maybe protective of them in some way.

336
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,000
I'm just speculating.

337
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,000
Yeah, for sure.

338
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,000
So the other two women did not confess.

339
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,480
As they shouldn't, Sarah's.

340
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,980
The Sarah's did not confess.

341
00:15:20,980 --> 00:15:25,900
Now the Sarah that was pregnant, the younger Sarah, she was actually already a mother and

342
00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:29,480
her daughter was now having to be raised by someone else.

343
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,040
And she had her baby while in prison.

344
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,520
The baby passed away, unfortunately.

345
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:41,880
And then once she had the baby, she was accused, found guilty, and hanged.

346
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,960
The other Sarah, I believe, died in prison.

347
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:46,600
Because she was old.

348
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,240
Why do we always think of burning the witches when they were hanged?

349
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,560
So none of the US witches were burned.

350
00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,160
Now that's not to say that didn't happen other places.

351
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,760
But when you see, like Brie was telling me about, the reason we were doing this episode

352
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:09,040
is because Brie saw some shirts that said they didn't burn witches, they burned women.

353
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,680
And there's definitely precedent for burning.

354
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:18,520
But in the United States, particularly in Salem, there were 20 people that were accused

355
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:19,520
of witchcraft.

356
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,560
And there were almost 200 that were accused.

357
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,120
But there were 20 that were accused and convicted and executed.

358
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,600
And they were all hanged.

359
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,600
And there was one additional man that was crushed.

360
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,600
We'll get there.

361
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:32,600
Like a tomato.

362
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,720
I mean, it was quite graphic.

363
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,280
I read some graphic stuff.

364
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,280
It's not great.

365
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,280
But, so that was the start of things.

366
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:49,280
And that was in March of 1692 that they were accused, that they were then, you know, went,

367
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,760
started on this whole path, right?

368
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:56,200
And that started a crazy amount of crap.

369
00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:01,520
So in the end, there were four main girls that were accusing people.

370
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:06,760
So it was Betty Abigail, and there was Ann Putnam, who was 12, and Elizabeth Hubbard,

371
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:07,760
who was 17.

372
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:14,560
And these four girls are primarily responsible for accusations, okay?

373
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,320
So they start the path.

374
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,400
Now, there's a lot of control around them.

375
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,000
And you have to ask, where's the control coming from?

376
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,000
Satan.

377
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,200
I don't think that's it.

378
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,440
I mean, you could make that argument.

379
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:34,040
But a lot of the control is coming from the men around them.

380
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:38,120
Now these two first little girls, they're acting super weird.

381
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,100
There's actually some theories as to why.

382
00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:41,560
One of the theories is that-

383
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:42,560
Periods.

384
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:43,560
That's your theory.

385
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:49,080
I don't know that that's been substantiated.

386
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:56,000
But one of the theories is that they had a very heavily rye-based diet, and rye can get

387
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,860
a fungus in it.

388
00:17:57,860 --> 00:18:00,520
There's a fungus among us.

389
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,900
That can make you act super weird.

390
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:07,840
So that's one theory as to why that might have started.

391
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:14,200
But remember that the father here is the reverend who has something to gain.

392
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,960
Now later on, another one of the women that gets accused, I believe it's Anne Putnam's

393
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,200
father.

394
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,760
So Anne starts acting weird too, right?

395
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:33,200
And her dad is feuding with this woman whose land kind of backs up to his.

396
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,900
They've been feuding for a long time.

397
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:37,880
She is an upstanding member of the community.

398
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,060
She goes to church.

399
00:18:39,060 --> 00:18:40,900
She's like everybody's grandma.

400
00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:42,240
Everybody loves her.

401
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,720
The BFF.

402
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,560
Except Mr. Putnam.

403
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:53,360
So Mr. Putnam now tells, in theory, the theory is, that he tells his daughter, accuse her.

404
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:54,880
That way we'll get her land.

405
00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:01,400
Because she was in control of it, and women didn't have a lot of rights in the first place.

406
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:06,960
So the fact that she had any control of this property, she's hanging on by a thread.

407
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,640
All he needs is one little thing to break that thread.

408
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,720
Oh, you're going to sing a song.

409
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,220
A tiny little...

410
00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:16,220
The rumor weed.

411
00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:17,220
You're on the rumor weed.

412
00:19:17,220 --> 00:19:18,220
The rumor weed.

413
00:19:18,220 --> 00:19:19,220
Yeah.

414
00:19:19,220 --> 00:19:20,220
Never mind.

415
00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:22,780
At least I knew where that one was going.

416
00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:26,480
So then you've got that man in power.

417
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:34,280
Then you've got the judges, the magistrates, the religious leaders that come in to decide

418
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,320
the fate of those who are accused.

419
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,480
Saying guilty or not guilty.

420
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:42,740
Always guilty.

421
00:19:42,740 --> 00:19:45,600
And they're perpetuating it in a really horrific way.

422
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:52,040
Because like I said, the deal is, if you want to be found innocent, you have to say, yes

423
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:58,080
I'm in line with the devil, but plus also, here's four other people that I saw in line

424
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,080
with the devil.

425
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,440
Which is crazy.

426
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,240
It's all about power, right?

427
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:11,040
So about 200 people, not quite 200, but right around 200 people were accused over a very

428
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,040
short amount of time.

429
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:19,000
Think of how many, almost every day you're having these cases.

430
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,080
And actually there were a couple of animals too that were tried.

431
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,080
There was a dog.

432
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,080
What?

433
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,320
And I want to say a pig.

434
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,680
Were they allowed to speak up for themselves?

435
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,400
I don't know, but they were executed.

436
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:32,960
This is very Charlotte's Web.

437
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:33,960
It's very strange.

438
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:34,960
I don't like that.

439
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,000
Dr. Dolittle and whatnot.

440
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,480
It's wild.

441
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,400
But think of how often this is happening.

442
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,680
This is almost constant.

443
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,640
And then you look at why.

444
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:53,840
I want to get through this one so that we can talk about some of the other trials too.

445
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,400
But oh, I'm sorry.

446
00:20:55,400 --> 00:21:00,160
By the end there were 10 women and girls that said they were afflicted by witchcraft.

447
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,720
So those four that I said before were the main four, but by the end there was like a

448
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,600
group of 10 of them.

449
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,280
And they would go in and they would provide something called spectral evidence.

450
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,280
So remember-

451
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,080
Like the moon and the stars?

452
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,080
Not quite.

453
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:21,120
Remember that this is a legal court in the United States.

454
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:22,560
Now this wasn't the United States at the time.

455
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:23,960
It was colonies.

456
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:29,200
But still, this is a legal proceeding.

457
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,120
And this group of girls, however many there were accusing you at the time, would stand

458
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:38,640
up in court and they would present what they would call spectral evidence.

459
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,020
So that's where they can see something.

460
00:21:42,020 --> 00:21:46,640
So if I was to be like, Brianna is scratching my eyes out-

461
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,120
With my third eye?

462
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:49,120
Yeah.

463
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,480
And ripping my leg off and whatever.

464
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,000
I couldn't think of anything else.

465
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,960
That was the first thing that came to my mind.

466
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,960
The first thing that came to my mind is, she's ripping my leg off.

467
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,200
But they would present this spectral evidence.

468
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,140
They would contort, they would look crazy, they would whatever.

469
00:22:09,140 --> 00:22:14,360
And that was taken as evidence against the people being accused.

470
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:19,080
I want to say so much that like, oh, they're so stupid back then, but I guess it's not

471
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,960
like they had access to the internet.

472
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,620
Well that time was very different.

473
00:22:24,620 --> 00:22:26,440
It was definitely very different.

474
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:36,160
But a huge part of what's happening here is, like we said, power dynamics, selfishness,

475
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:41,400
a lack of consideration for other people, a lack of ability to consider other people.

476
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:49,680
Some of these girls that are accusing people, one of them was a servant who started having

477
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,200
the convulsions and whatever, which again could have been caused by Ry.

478
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,560
It could have been caused by something actually going on in the environment.

479
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:04,700
And her master, I don't really know what, her boss, she was a servant, not a slave,

480
00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:09,000
so that's kind of a complicated terminology.

481
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:14,920
But he beat her really badly because he didn't believe in the witch trials and he said, not

482
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,200
in my house.

483
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:23,200
So then, long story short, that's John Proctor and his wife were both accused.

484
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:29,720
And he was one of the men that was hanged because she did turn around.

485
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,920
At first she apologized.

486
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,800
She said, oh so sorry, didn't mean it, whatever, because he had hurt her and she was scared

487
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:37,800
of him.

488
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:44,160
But then the girls turned on her, the group of girls, and said, no, now we're going to

489
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:49,640
accuse you of being a witch because you're saying we're all lying.

490
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,120
So now she's got to turn back around.

491
00:23:52,120 --> 00:23:55,960
So she accuses him and his wife again and he is hanged, the wife is not because she

492
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,960
was pregnant and ends up getting pardoned in the end.

493
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:05,960
It's all about power dynamics and where does the power lie?

494
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:11,720
And you've got these ten girls that had no power in their lives.

495
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,200
And I don't want to excuse what they did in any way.

496
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:21,840
If you have zero power and then you go from having zero to all of this power and you don't

497
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:27,200
know how to handle yourself, and if you give up even a little bit of that power then they're

498
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,800
going to turn on you.

499
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,640
Now it's a game of survival too.

500
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,520
So I think it's, because the whole time I'm researching I'm asking myself, why are women

501
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,200
accusing women?

502
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:46,080
Why are these marginalized people accusing more marginalized people?

503
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:52,600
And I think it boils down to if they had accused prominent members of the community, if they

504
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,520
had accused men, if they had accused the pastor.

505
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,060
People that were important, and unfortunately that was not the case for most women.

506
00:25:02,060 --> 00:25:05,360
Most women wouldn't have been considered important.

507
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:10,760
So they accused the less important to get their own leg up.

508
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,100
Because that's what worked for them.

509
00:25:12,100 --> 00:25:18,780
And in the end, what stopped all of this, and this is a little bit wild to me, so what

510
00:25:18,780 --> 00:25:25,280
stopped it in the end, again, 200 people have been accused, we've been going through trials

511
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:33,640
for a year, is that the girls accused the governor of Massachusetts' wife of being

512
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,760
a witch.

513
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:41,920
And so now he's like, okay, we're not going to take spectral evidence anymore, and we're

514
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,320
done, we're out.

515
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:49,400
I wonder if they knew that that would stop it.

516
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:56,880
Years later, quite a few of them formally publicly apologized for the whole situation,

517
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,740
as did quite a few of the magistrates.

518
00:26:00,740 --> 00:26:07,600
There was one guy, kind of like the head judge, he to his death never apologized and essentially

519
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,120
said I was doing God's work.

520
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:10,120
Evie- He doubled down.

521
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:11,120
Bekkah- He doubled down.

522
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,560
Evie- Just like the KFC sandwich.

523
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,640
Bekkah- Oh, the double chicken garbage?

524
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,040
Evie- Yeah, nasty.

525
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,600
One of the videos that I saw, and I watched a lot of videos, I read a lot of articles,

526
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:30,480
but one of the videos that I saw, I think the most impactful thing that they said was

527
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,640
these are some of the truest Christian martyrs.

528
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,280
Bekkah- Explain.

529
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:40,080
Evie- These would have been the people, the 20 people that died.

530
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,960
21 actually, because one was crushed.

531
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,600
Just real gross, his tongue came out.

532
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,600
Bekkah- Ew!

533
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,600
Stop it!

534
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,600
It's Halloween!

535
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,040
Evie- Oh, for Halloween.

536
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,040
We love to talk about-

537
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,040
Bekkah- We're talking about death!

538
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,360
I don't know what to tell you.

539
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:58,400
The hanging was not a great time either.

540
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:07,440
But they said that these 21 particular people were the ones that refused to say yes I did

541
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:08,440
it.

542
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:15,640
Now it's really hard to blame the other 180 people-ish, because that's scary and you're

543
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:16,640
saving your own butt.

544
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:25,840
But at the same time, the 20 people that died, the 21 people that died, refused to say that

545
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,000
they were witches.

546
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,600
They refused to say they were in line with the devil.

547
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,520
Now you can say for whatever reason, but I would guess that for a lot of them it was

548
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,400
based on their own faith.

549
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,040
I'm not gonna align myself with that.

550
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,320
I'm not ever gonna say that I did that.

551
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,800
At the very least, they don't want to lie.

552
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,320
Bekkah- Right.

553
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,360
And so these people, now were all of them great?

554
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:51,360
No.

555
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,200
John Proctor, not a good man.

556
00:27:54,200 --> 00:28:00,440
But they were martyrs for their beliefs at the end of the day, which because it's a Puritan

557
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,800
culture were mostly Christian beliefs.

558
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,600
And I just thought that was so impactful.

559
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,280
I've never heard it talked about like that.

560
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,480
That these people were Christian martyrs.

561
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,720
And what a way to turn that story on its head.

562
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:16,720
Think about that.

563
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:17,920
Put yourself in that situation.

564
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,180
What would you do?

565
00:28:20,180 --> 00:28:25,880
Would you stick to your guns and know that you're facing death?

566
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,360
Or would you lie and accuse someone else?

567
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:30,360
That's a tough choice.

568
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:32,080
Just to save your own butt.

569
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,600
Bekkah- Well I mean only 10% of them did that.

570
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,840
So it's a very small percentage and I think that's probably representative of what would

571
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,960
actually happen if this happened today.

572
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:50,800
It's very hard to blame people for when you're facing death, working to save themselves,

573
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:57,800
and yet at the same time, the people who paid the ultimate price, we call them witches.

574
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:58,800
Still.

575
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,800
We call them the Salem Witches.

576
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:10,200
And that's gotta be, I mean they're not on earth anymore, but that's pretty rough.

577
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,680
I just thought that was so impactful.

578
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:22,480
And remember that 70% of the people in the Salem Witch trials that were hanged were women.

579
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:31,040
It wasn't all of them, but it was a huge percentage of those who were accused and those who were

580
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:32,040
hanged.

581
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:37,840
Bekkah- Yeah, I'd love to dive deeper sometime into women turning on women and how that is

582
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,680
not a new topic.

583
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,600
We're doing that today.

584
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:49,560
In so many ways, just simple things like, oh you don't homeschool your kids?

585
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:50,560
I do.

586
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:51,600
Shame on you.

587
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,320
Or ooh you're going to work?

588
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,640
Oh you shouldn't.

589
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,200
You should really, like your greatest calling is to be a wife and mother.

590
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,400
You should want and love to stay at home.

591
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,240
Or you're celebrating Halloween.

592
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,280
Oh yeah!

593
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:06,280
That's a huge one.

594
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:11,920
I remember we've always, we didn't really come from a family that didn't celebrate Halloween,

595
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,400
but we also went to very conservative churches where there was definitely that group of people

596
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,160
that was like, you're celebrating the devil.

597
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,800
Which I think is kind of funny because they don't want to celebrate Halloween, but they

598
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,720
will celebrate harvest and you can decorate and go get candy.

599
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,240
And then I mean Christmas is a pagan holiday.

600
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:37,280
We stuck a Christian sticker on it, but that doesn't make it a Christian holiday.

601
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:42,040
I think it's all about what you choose to do with that day.

602
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,120
Trick or treating is not inherently demonic.

603
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,280
We're just getting candy guys.

604
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:48,960
I like candy, I don't know what to tell you.

605
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:49,960
I love cats!

606
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,960
You know what my favorite is?

607
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,240
Those Reese's Fast Breaks.

608
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,680
They've got like nougat and peanut butter and chocolate.

609
00:30:58,680 --> 00:30:59,680
It's a great time.

610
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:00,680
I like it.

611
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:01,680
Take five.

612
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:02,680
I know you do.

613
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:03,680
Those are hard to find.

614
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,200
Both of these are hard to find.

615
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,960
It's like all of the things.

616
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,160
So sinful.

617
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:15,640
So there's a couple of theories of why this got so big in Salem.

618
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,360
Because there, we'll go into another one that happened in the United States as well, but

619
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:26,420
it's interesting because there's a broader picture here.

620
00:31:26,420 --> 00:31:33,880
So part of it is that the Puritan leadership was starting to feel out of control.

621
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,720
They were having some wars with the Native Americans and they believed that the Native

622
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,080
Americans were in line with the devil.

623
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:52,440
I realize that that is insane, horrific, ridiculous, but that is what they believed at the time.

624
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,520
And so in these wars, now they're feeling out of control.

625
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,960
They're feeling like Satan is coming in because we're at war and we're losing.

626
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:08,760
And so because they were, again, losing control, now how do we regain the control of at least

627
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,600
the people in town?

628
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:17,080
Because originally the Puritans had come over to avoid religious persecution, but now they

629
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:22,080
were over here and a lot of people were not going to church.

630
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,000
A lot of people were starting to think differently.

631
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,080
A lot of people were questioning the reverends, things like that.

632
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,240
So how do we regain control?

633
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,920
Well, a really publicized widespread witch hunt might do it.

634
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:35,920
G!

635
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:44,440
So that's one theory as to why it kind of got so big and why the leaders allowed it

636
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,440
to get so big.

637
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,880
Because there were other times where these things got shut down, where it would start

638
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,280
and they were like, no, this is stupid.

639
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,960
We're not doing this.

640
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,520
But here was a perfect reason.

641
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:03,160
And one of the resources that I read, it said 1690s New England is much less Puritan than

642
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:04,160
1630s.

643
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:12,360
So you think about modern day churches, when a pastor starts to lose control, what's the

644
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,680
first thing that he does?

645
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:21,960
Puts more restrictions on the people to try to force them into control.

646
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,400
Puts more restrictions on the women.

647
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,120
Not biblically based.

648
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,120
No.

649
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,800
But just human based.

650
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,480
How do we control this big group of people?

651
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,760
A big group of people is hard to control.

652
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,240
So tell the women that they can only wear skirts.

653
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,720
Have an element of fear.

654
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:39,720
Right.

655
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:40,720
Absolutely.

656
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:45,280
Like you think of trauma bonding now, you can create really strong bonds if you have

657
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,720
a common enemy or a common fear.

658
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:48,720
Right.

659
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,840
So that's exactly what they were doing here.

660
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,620
Now the next one I'm going to talk about.

661
00:33:54,620 --> 00:33:56,280
There's so much that goes into this.

662
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:02,320
I feel like I watched like 20 hours worth of videos and we're compressing it into not

663
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,360
that long of a podcast.

664
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,200
I've just been watching Agatha all along, so I feel like that's my research.

665
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:09,200
Oh good.

666
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,200
Yeah, that's good.

667
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,360
That'll do it.

668
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,000
They did have the horrifying Salem witches in that.

669
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,000
That gives me nightmares.

670
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,000
Very scary.

671
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,000
It's very scary.

672
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,000
If you're not into scary, don't watch it.

673
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,000
If you're into scary, it's pretty good.

674
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:29,560
But anyway, so the next ones I want to talk about were a little bit earlier in time and

675
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,160
they were the Connecticut witch trials or the Hartford witch trials depending on who

676
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:34,160
you ask.

677
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,440
The Gilmore Girls witch trials.

678
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,360
Because that's all we know about Connecticut.

679
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,360
Or Hartford.

680
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:46,440
So these happened in a longer period of time, but they're not quite as famous because there

681
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,640
were less cases tried over quite a long period.

682
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:59,720
But it was between 1647 and 1663 and it was the very first large scale witch trials in

683
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:00,720
the colonies.

684
00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:08,480
There were 37 cases tried as opposed to almost 200 in Salem and 11 people were killed.

685
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,440
Again, most of whom were women.

686
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,600
What's 11 divided by 37?

687
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:13,680
What?

688
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:14,680
I don't know.

689
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:15,680
I have an English degree.

690
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:16,680
You're trying to figure out percentages.

691
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:17,680
You should phone.

692
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,680
Because I feel like that's a bigger percentage of people.

693
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,760
Percentage wise, oh yeah, a lot more percentage wise.

694
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,960
If you got accused, you were less likely to survive it.

695
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:36,080
But a lot less cases over a long stretch of time as opposed to a single year and then

696
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,080
you've got almost 200 people.

697
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:47,680
So the first woman, the first person, but she was a woman, to be accused, her name was,

698
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,000
and I don't know how to say this, but Ulce A-L-S-E Young.

699
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,120
Call her Ulce.

700
00:35:54,120 --> 00:36:00,040
She was the first person executed for witchcraft likely in the American colonies.

701
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,640
So ever since we came over, she's our first witch.

702
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:05,640
She's the first witch.

703
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,980
But again, that's really hurtful probably.

704
00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:15,600
So she was executed in May of 1647 and there are no surviving records about her trial or

705
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:16,760
charges.

706
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:22,200
So nobody really knows what she was accused of, what the evidence was.

707
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,520
We just know that she was executed.

708
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:31,160
And one of the theories is that she was potentially in line to inherit her husband's land.

709
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:34,360
Oh, power move.

710
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,480
So that's a theory.

711
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,160
It's not proven for sure, but that's what happened with her.

712
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:47,240
So then the first recorded confession of witchcraft, so she didn't confess to it that we are aware

713
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:51,200
of, but the first confession was Mary Johnson.

714
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,520
Why would you be spared if you confessed?

715
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,600
Doesn't it make more sense?

716
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,920
If you're confessing, let's get rid of you.

717
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:06,440
Yeah, but if you confess and you blame someone else, then the trials keep going and they

718
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,680
have a vested interest in the trials continually.

719
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:09,680
True.

720
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,920
I don't know, it seems shady.

721
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,520
So the first confession was from a servant.

722
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,600
She was a servant named Mary Johnson.

723
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:26,840
She was accused of theft in 1648 and then was extensively tortured and interrogated.

724
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,880
And after that, she confessed to familiarity with the devil.

725
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:31,880
Ew.

726
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:32,880
Yeah.

727
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,140
I mean, it's dark and icky.

728
00:37:36,140 --> 00:37:40,020
Her execution was delayed, but she actually was executed in the 1650s, so even though

729
00:37:40,020 --> 00:37:42,120
she confessed, she was executed.

730
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,360
And then these are the three main ones.

731
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,200
Again, there were 11 people, but these are the three main ones.

732
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:54,800
There was Catherine Harrison, who was a former maid servant of one of the captains in the

733
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:55,800
area.

734
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:01,400
She was born in England and came to America, which poor her because they were done in England.

735
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,040
They were done killing the witches.

736
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,480
She's like, I thought I escaped.

737
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:06,480
Dang it.

738
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:14,280
But she became a wealthy citizen eventually because her husband passed away and she inherited

739
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,280
his estate.

740
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,640
She then had a bunch of legal issues and despite the fact, so people were burning her crops

741
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,200
and killing her livestock.

742
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,200
Rude.

743
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,680
She's a woman who owns property and they don't like that and they're trying to drive her

744
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,320
out.

745
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:35,360
And even though people saw it, there were eyewitness accounts of it.

746
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,660
She was never given any restitution.

747
00:38:37,660 --> 00:38:38,660
No one was ever charged.

748
00:38:38,660 --> 00:38:41,560
Well, think about the bystander effect now.

749
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,560
Just because you see something wrong that's happening doesn't mean people in general are

750
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,440
going to do something.

751
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,720
So, her whole situation was a disaster.

752
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:51,720
Okay?

753
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:52,720
Poor thing.

754
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:54,120
So, she's accused of that.

755
00:38:54,120 --> 00:39:02,200
Then she's accused sometime between 1668 and 1669 and she's accused of breaking the Sabbath,

756
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,040
which wow, if we're getting accused of that, we are all done.

757
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,400
All of us are out.

758
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,800
You did any amount of- Did you turn your head to breathe on the Sabbath?

759
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:11,800
You're done.

760
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,760
I mean, if I don't actually work on a Sunday, it's a miracle.

761
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,840
Think about every time someone has a Sunday off and they're like, oh, finally I can mow

762
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:20,840
the lawn.

763
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:21,840
You're screwed.

764
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:22,840
You're right.

765
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:23,840
You're still doing something.

766
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:24,840
Yeah.

767
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,200
So, she was accused of that, of fortune telling and also of black magic.

768
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,760
And then they also used spectral evidence against her.

769
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,680
Her case was real funky.

770
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,160
So, the first jury-

771
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:36,160
Stink?

772
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:37,160
Yes.

773
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,880
The first jury could not decide whether she was guilty or not.

774
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:48,480
The second jury did find her guilty, but then the magistrate decided that she was not guilty

775
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:53,920
because it was all spectral evidence against her and he didn't like that.

776
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:54,920
Some of them-

777
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:55,920
How kind of him.

778
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,920
Some of them turned on it eventually.

779
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:58,920
Still not great.

780
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,720
So, she was actually released, but she was banished from Connecticut.

781
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:09,640
So, despite the fact that she was released, all of her property, so she might as well

782
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:10,640
be dead.

783
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:11,640
All of her livestock.

784
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,000
I mean, we don't know what happens to her after this.

785
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:18,120
I believe her family moves to New York, but we don't know what happens to her from here.

786
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:24,280
But whatever did happen, she lost any autonomy.

787
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,600
Any power, any finances, she lost it.

788
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:27,600
It was gone.

789
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,400
She was literally banished from her home.

790
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,200
Despite the fact that she's found innocent.

791
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,160
They banished her.

792
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,160
Like why?

793
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,040
I don't know.

794
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:46,360
So, there's a really interesting after these things happen process of eventually, after

795
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,760
these people have died, finding them innocent.

796
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,960
Okay, so with the Hartford case, Salem has a similar situation, but with the Hartford

797
00:40:53,960 --> 00:41:00,200
case in particular, in 2012, descendants of those who were executed petitioned to the

798
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,500
Connecticut government to pardon the victims.

799
00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:10,980
Because technically, it's still on the books that they are guilty of witchcraft.

800
00:41:10,980 --> 00:41:13,840
Because these were legal proceedings.

801
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,260
So technically, it's still there, right?

802
00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:18,320
So that was in 2012.

803
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:19,320
The motion was not passed.

804
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:20,760
Maryam- 2012 was a rough year.

805
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,040
We thought the world was going to end.

806
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,040
Bekkah- Yeah, and then it did it in 2020.

807
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,040
Dang it.

808
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,040
All day.

809
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,440
But the motion didn't pass.

810
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:28,440
Why?

811
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:29,440
I don't know.

812
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,440
I didn't get there.

813
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:36,680
Then in 2007, so we're going back a little bit, Addie Avery, who was a descendant of

814
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:41,680
one of the women that was killed, petitioned the British government, because remember,

815
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,320
we were colonies at the time.

816
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,360
So the British government to acquit the convicted witches.

817
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,680
They did not.

818
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,880
I would love to know the reasoning.

819
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,880
I couldn't tell you.

820
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,920
I think it's just not important enough.

821
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,320
It's so long ago that it's like, who cares?

822
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,140
But clearly, someone cares or no one would bring it up.

823
00:42:02,140 --> 00:42:08,320
So then in 2017, the town of Windsor, so just Windsor specifically, not the whole of this

824
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:15,240
case, but just one town that was involved, unanimously passed a resolution to symbolically

825
00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:18,200
clear the names of two of the victims that were in their town.

826
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:22,360
So they couldn't clear everything, but they symbolically cleared it.

827
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:31,680
In 2023, last year, boys and girls, the Connecticut House of Representatives voted 121 in favor

828
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:38,720
and 30 against to exonerate those who were convicted of witchcraft.

829
00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:41,720
Why 30 against?

830
00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:47,640
They were like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

831
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,640
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

832
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:53,640
no, no.

833
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:54,640
This is last year.

834
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:55,640
That's insanity.

835
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:56,640
Last year.

836
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:57,640
And a similar situation happened in Salem.

837
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:58,640
This was not exclusive.

838
00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:59,640
Wild.

839
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,680
Okay, so the last one is the Pendle Witches.

840
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,160
And the Pendle Witches were in England.

841
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:05,160
They were in Lancashire.

842
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,160
Lancashire?

843
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,160
Lancashire.

844
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,160
I think it's Lancashire.

845
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,160
Lancaster?

846
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,560
No, that's not Lancashire, England.

847
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,200
And this was in 1612.

848
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,000
So this was significantly earlier.

849
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,920
I don't know if you guys know this, but we're not British.

850
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,840
Even though sometimes we're talking in accent.

851
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,840
Sometimes you talk in accent.

852
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:27,840
What?

853
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:29,840
I don't know.

854
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,120
So we're going to speed through.

855
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:35,920
Only 12 people were accused in this particular case, but the reason that it's significant

856
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:41,680
is because it was one of the bigger cases.

857
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:49,120
Even though 500 people were executed in Europe, it was over a huge period of time.

858
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,480
So this was one of the hot spots, right?

859
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:52,480
Oh.

860
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,960
So 12 people were accused.

861
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:56,480
Nine women and two men.

862
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,280
So that's how many were tried at that point.

863
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:04,640
And then 10 were found guilty and hanged and one was found not guilty.

864
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:10,160
Most of them, so six of these people, were from two feuding families.

865
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,600
Just like the Hatfords and the Hatfords?

866
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:14,600
Hatfields.

867
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:15,600
Hatfields and the Pacoys.

868
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,040
Good job.

869
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,380
I know history.

870
00:44:19,380 --> 00:44:23,920
But I think it's important, this one I'm not going to talk a ton about because we're

871
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:24,920
getting to the end.

872
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,320
But I think it's important, again, power dynamics.

873
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,640
So the way that this started is kind of a wild story.

874
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,120
So buckle up.

875
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,560
The original accuser was a man.

876
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,320
He's walking through the forest.

877
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,540
He comes upon a beggar woman.

878
00:44:39,540 --> 00:44:42,120
She asks him for some money.

879
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:48,600
Now the current assumption based on current knowledge is that this man likely had a seizure

880
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,880
or some kind of medical event.

881
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,280
He passes out.

882
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,240
Someone finds him, takes him to a local inn.

883
00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:57,400
They revive him.

884
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,240
And when he wakes up, he tells this story.

885
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:03,160
He says, I met a beggar woman on the road.

886
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,840
I said, no, I wouldn't give her any money.

887
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,800
And a dog came out of the forest and started talking to her.

888
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,440
And the dog said, do you want me to kill him?

889
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:14,720
And she said, yes.

890
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:15,960
Why wasn't the dog tried?

891
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,000
Why wasn't there evidence of a dog attack?

892
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,920
Like there are many questions here.

893
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,400
There was no dog.

894
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:24,680
So he accuses her.

895
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,480
They bring her in.

896
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:32,640
She admits to this after, again, a lot of coercion.

897
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:33,640
She's a beggar.

898
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,240
She has no status in society.

899
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:38,000
She just doesn't want to die.

900
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,320
That's what this boils down to.

901
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:45,680
And he actually was going to say, according to records, he was going to pardon her to

902
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,360
say, forget it, whatever.

903
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:49,360
Because I'm insane.

904
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:50,640
Probably because he didn't believe himself.

905
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:51,640
Yeah.

906
00:45:51,640 --> 00:46:00,720
Or hot goss time.

907
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:03,440
He was trying to do something bad to her.

908
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:04,920
And he was like, no, no, no, no, no.

909
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:05,920
I'll pardon you.

910
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:06,920
Yeah.

911
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:08,740
I mean, there are many possibilities.

912
00:46:08,740 --> 00:46:10,000
This is an old story.

913
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,920
A lot of it is lost to time.

914
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:19,000
But what happens is his son was called because his dad is passed out in this random town.

915
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,800
His son comes in and is like, heck no, we're accusing her.

916
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,900
So she ends up being accused of being a witch.

917
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:28,760
So then from there, there are two feuding families.

918
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:33,760
And they're feuding because both of them are impoverished and they are basically fighting

919
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,600
over who gets to beg where.

920
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,780
They also think that there might have been some aspect of natural healing going on.

921
00:46:42,780 --> 00:46:46,640
So potentially they were using herbs and stuff to try and help heal people.

922
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,160
Homeopathic?

923
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,760
Which at the time probably would have been considered witchcraft.

924
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,240
Which is weird because I feel like all medicine back then was homeopathic.

925
00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:59,000
Well, yeah, but this one was being done by women.

926
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,600
Oh, okay.

927
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:02,160
I mean, that's it.

928
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,040
That's what's happening.

929
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:11,120
And so in order to save her own butt, she accuses this other family because, hey, they're

930
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:12,120
annoying me anyway.

931
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:13,720
I'm going to accuse them.

932
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:21,240
Now both of these families were led by matriarchs who were in their 80s, both of whom were executed

933
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:24,280
along with huge percentages of their families.

934
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:25,280
So it didn't work out.

935
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:26,280
Sorry, grandma.

936
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:27,720
Didn't work out.

937
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:32,760
But it's so interesting to dive into this.

938
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,960
And on Halloween yet.

939
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,400
On all Hallows' Eats.

940
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:45,880
It's so fun to look at these stories and pull them apart in a way I've never seen them before.

941
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:52,880
To look at the Salem witches and say, you were martyrs for your faith.

942
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,440
Instead of saying, oh, you were witches.

943
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:01,600
And I think we just, we go along with the story because it's an interesting story.

944
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,160
It's a wild story.

945
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:04,480
It's a spooky story.

946
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,600
If you go to Salem, it's super kitschy.

947
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,800
Now I've never been, but I've seen lots of videos.

948
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:10,800
Very hocus pocus.

949
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:11,800
Yeah.

950
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,680
And I don't necessarily think there's anything inherently wrong with that.

951
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,640
Every town has their thing.

952
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:18,640
Michigan has a lot of apples.

953
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:19,640
There's a lot of apples here.

954
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:20,640
Cars.

955
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:21,640
Cars, yeah.

956
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:22,640
So many cars.

957
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:27,200
But I don't necessarily think there's anything inherently wrong with it.

958
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:35,920
I also think it's important to dive deeper into these stories and to ask bigger questions.

959
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,200
Why did it happen?

960
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,000
Why were women turning on women?

961
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,080
That's why those shirts are so popular right now.

962
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,800
They didn't burn or hang witches.

963
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,680
They killed women.

964
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,840
Where do we draw the line today?

965
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,360
Because I was talking to my mom about this.

966
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:54,360
Our mom.

967
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:55,360
Our mom.

968
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:56,360
No, just yours.

969
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:57,360
She's been aggravating me.

970
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,360
Just kidding.

971
00:48:58,360 --> 00:48:59,360
Sorry, mom.

972
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:00,360
You haven't been.

973
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:06,160
But I was talking to her about this the other day, and obviously on a much smaller scale,

974
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:12,280
but I was relating this to the witchcraft scare of our childhood.

975
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:18,240
So we grew up in the era of Harry Potter, and yet, as little conservative Christian

976
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:25,000
children, if you said the words Harry Potter, you were getting grounded for a month.

977
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,520
I remember when you started reading them.

978
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:28,520
In high school.

979
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:29,520
Yeah, in high school.

980
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:30,520
And you had to hide it.

981
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:34,920
You put different book covers on your books to hide that you were reading them.

982
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:35,920
Because we were rebels.

983
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,280
But I mean, I'm not talking about little kid at that point.

984
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:45,200
I was in high school, I think my sophomore, junior year of high school, and I started

985
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,480
reading them because my friends were all really into them.

986
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:55,120
And still, even by that time, so that was after they'd been out for quite a while, it

987
00:49:55,120 --> 00:50:01,240
was still, my mom was very, our mom, our mom, just yours, Terrence, was very upset that

988
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:02,920
I was reading them initially.

989
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:08,680
And our parents have read them, watched movies, very much turned around on that, and are totally

990
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:09,680
fine with it.

991
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:11,480
In fact, very obsessed, I would say.

992
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,200
Yeah, we watched them a lot.

993
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:21,560
But it's so interesting because you look at the same concept?

994
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:28,280
This fear of this unknown witchcraft stuff.

995
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:34,160
And yet we were okay with, and I know not all Christian households were, but in ours,

996
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,160
we watched the show Bewitched.

997
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,480
We watched The Sword and the Stone.

998
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:40,480
We watched...

999
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,120
What was that one movie with, I think it was Cary Grant, where they buried people in the

1000
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:46,120
basement?

1001
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:47,120
NIC.

1002
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:48,120
Arsenic and Old Lace.

1003
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:49,280
I don't think they were witches, I think they were just killers.

1004
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:50,280
They were just killers.

1005
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,680
That is a spooky show.

1006
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,680
They were just killers.

1007
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,800
They were not witches.

1008
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:01,080
Also you could talk about things like Snow White and Cinderella.

1009
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,400
The Wizard of Oz.

1010
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,000
The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

1011
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,320
Why are those things okay?

1012
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:14,200
And what are we really scared of as Christians in this setting?

1013
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,600
What are we afraid of?

1014
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:23,600
Because the reality at the end of the day is the spells in Harry Potter, she just took

1015
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,640
a bunch of words and translated them into Latin.

1016
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:26,640
Evie.

1017
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,760
They weren't relating it back to Satan at all, it was just magic.

1018
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:39,360
It was magic, but we are so afraid of getting too close to sin.

1019
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:45,040
And maybe that's part of what some of the accusers or the magistrates or whoever in

1020
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:50,240
these cases were doing, not that that makes it any better, but maybe that's what they're

1021
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:56,200
doing is you're so afraid of stepping a little too close to the sin because then you might

1022
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:04,120
fall into the sin that you put this big wall up, not just around you, but around everyone

1023
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:05,120
of faith.

1024
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:06,120
Evie.

1025
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:12,720
And now it's not just that sin that's the actual sin, it's for example, really conservative

1026
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:16,660
Christians back in our time, I don't know if it's true now, but they would say don't

1027
00:52:16,660 --> 00:52:18,780
go to the movies.

1028
00:52:18,780 --> 00:52:22,680
Because not that necessarily the movie that you're going to see is bad, but you don't

1029
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:27,120
want anybody to think that you're going to see what could possibly be a bad movie.

1030
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:31,080
And that's real, I know if you're not from the conservative Christian faith, that sounds

1031
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,040
wild, but that's true.

1032
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:38,000
Bekkah Or don't go into a restaurant that serves alcohol, because even if you're not

1033
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,920
getting alcohol, someone might walk by and think you're getting alcohol and then that

1034
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:43,920
could damage their faith.

1035
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:44,920
Evie.

1036
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,560
Right, so now all these things become additional sins, like going to the movies is a sin, going

1037
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,520
to that restaurant is a sin, even though it's not.

1038
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:57,960
Bekkah Right, so even though Harry Potter is not talking

1039
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:06,360
about the devil in any way, if you want to argue Agatha all along on Disney, I hear you.

1040
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:07,360
I hear you.

1041
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:12,600
But, because there's actual demons in it, it's a little spooky guys.

1042
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,760
But with Harry Potter, there was nothing about that.

1043
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,520
There's magic, there's spells, etc., but there's no worshipping the devil.

1044
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,920
And that's what the Bible says to steer clear of.

1045
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:29,920
But we had to put a bigger circle around it so that you don't get even close to sin.

1046
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,880
It's the same thing with drinking.

1047
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:34,600
We talk about wine a lot.

1048
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:35,600
A lot.

1049
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:43,200
conservative Christians, at least the spaces that we grew up in, did not drink.

1050
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:44,200
You do not drink.

1051
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:45,200
Ever, ever, ever.

1052
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:46,760
Evie Even though Jesus did.

1053
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:52,760
Bekkah Not for health purposes, not for anything else, and if you choose not to drink, no issues

1054
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:53,760
with that.

1055
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:54,760
100% your own decisions.

1056
00:53:54,760 --> 00:54:01,400
But to look at the entire Christian community and say none of you can drink because the

1057
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:06,040
Bible says don't get drunk.

1058
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:07,360
So now we can't drink at all.

1059
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:12,040
Evie I think more specifically it says don't make anything else an idol.

1060
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:18,240
So if you're an alcoholic, I do think you're making alcohol into an idol.

1061
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:21,640
But if you're having a glass of wine, I'm not going to follow you for that.

1062
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,720
Bekkah But we had to draw a big circle.

1063
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:28,120
And once you draw your own big circle, you gotta draw it for everybody else because you

1064
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:29,960
don't want to be all alone.

1065
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,720
Because if it's a sin for you, it's gotta be a sin for everybody else.

1066
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,720
We don't understand nuance.

1067
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:38,040
Evie The idea of misery likes company.

1068
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,680
So if you're miserable, you don't want to be miserable alone.

1069
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,520
So you're going to draw everybody else around you into that.

1070
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:51,040
Bekkah It's such an interesting, as we relate it all back into the witch trials, I think

1071
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:56,080
it absolutely is about exerting power over the people around you.

1072
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:02,000
Whether that's through the church, whether it's through the witch trials, whether it's

1073
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:07,720
through men telling women what they can wear and what they can do with their bodies, it's

1074
00:55:07,720 --> 00:55:10,040
exerting control.

1075
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,600
It all falls back onto that.

1076
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:17,280
And what can we do to step out of that?

1077
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:18,520
Here on this, the Halloween.

1078
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,040
Evie Here on Halloween, we have a Christmas message

1079
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:23,040
for you.

1080
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:24,040
Bekkah We do?

1081
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:25,040
I don't know.

1082
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,680
It'll be really interesting if one of these comes out on Christmas.

1083
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,760
Maybe we'll do the trifecta.

1084
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:32,760
Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas.

1085
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:37,080
Evie I think on Christmas we should talk about the ghost stories.

1086
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:40,720
Bekkah Sure, like a Christmas Carol.

1087
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:44,280
Alright, so I think that's all we have to talk about today.

1088
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:46,360
I hope you guys have an amazing Halloween.

1089
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:54,160
Evie I hope you watch a scary movie, eat some candy, have a good time, and then call into

1090
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:55,160
work tomorrow.

1091
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,400
Bekkah Oh, I was going to call into work on...

1092
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:01,120
I was going to pre-warn them, like I'm out on...

1093
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:02,920
I'm a freelancer so I do what I want.

1094
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:10,240
I was going to be like, I'm not working on the first, but I've had the plague and I had

1095
00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:12,480
to call out a lot, so I can't do that.

1096
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:13,480
It's a bummer.

1097
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:15,800
But I hope that you guys can.

1098
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:17,160
I think that they should...

1099
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:18,160
Hot take.

1100
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:19,160
Controversial take.

1101
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:20,160
Are you ready for it?

1102
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,520
Halloween should always, always, always be on a Friday.

1103
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,320
Evie A hundred percent!

1104
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:27,880
Bekkah Why are we doing this to ourselves?

1105
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:33,280
Evie This is ridiculous, like I don't care about October 31st, I don't care what it is.

1106
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,880
It should just be the last Friday of October.

1107
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:36,040
Bekkah I'm good with that.

1108
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,040
Friday or Saturday?

1109
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:38,040
I'm okay with Saturday also.

1110
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,040
Evie Yeah, even better.

1111
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:40,040
Bekkah Either way.

1112
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:41,040
All right.

1113
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,040
Well, now that you've heard us rant for a while.

1114
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:45,040
I love you.

1115
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:46,040
Woooooo!

1116
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:51,720
All right, if you know anybody in... let's see.

1117
00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:52,720
Salem.

1118
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:56,320
If you know anybody in Salem or Massachusetts.

1119
00:56:56,320 --> 00:57:00,320
Or England.

1120
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:01,880
Or Hartford.

1121
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:05,520
Any of those places that might want to listen to our craziness.

1122
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:06,520
Please share this with them.

1123
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:08,000
Hey, if you know any witches.

1124
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,000
Hey, maybe they would enjoy it.

1125
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,320
I know one just looking at me right now.

1126
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:12,320
Shut up.

1127
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,680
But we'll see you guys next week for...

1128
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:15,680
I don't know what yet.

1129
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:16,680
Ummmm...

1130
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:17,680
The winds of justice.

1131
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:24,680
All right, we'll see you next week for The Winds of Justice.

1132
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:25,680
Bye, we love you.

1133
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:26,680
Bye.

1134
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:27,680
I love you.

1135
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:55,680
I love you.