WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.560 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where chemical means business. 00:00:05.930 --> 00:00:09.710 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.710 --> 00:00:13.620 from leaders, driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.529 --> 00:00:18.830 Each week, we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.830 --> 00:00:20.580 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:21.959 Let's get started. 00:00:23.203 --> 00:00:24.803 Victoria: Hi, welcome back to the Chemical Show. 00:00:24.943 --> 00:00:29.523 I am here today with Jennifer Abril, who is the CEO of SOCMA. 00:00:29.983 --> 00:00:32.163 I'm going to let her describe that acronym. 00:00:32.430 --> 00:00:39.000 It's been three days of great energy, and conversations and topics about 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.230 the specialty chemical industry. 00:00:40.230 --> 00:00:43.070 So Jennifer and I are going to be talking about that and more. 00:00:43.380 --> 00:00:44.580 Jennifer, thanks for joining me. 00:00:45.135 --> 00:00:46.225 Jennifer: Victoria, it's great to be with you. 00:00:46.330 --> 00:00:46.930 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:00:46.930 --> 00:00:49.480 So let's just start with a little bit about you. 00:00:49.670 --> 00:00:51.090 And then we're going to talk a little bit about SOCMA. 00:00:51.090 --> 00:00:52.180 So tell us about yourself. 00:00:52.495 --> 00:00:57.115 Jennifer: Okay, been in and around chemicals since 1997. 00:00:57.465 --> 00:01:02.525 I sort of fell into this industry after coming through more of a policy based D. 00:01:02.525 --> 00:01:02.755 C. 00:01:02.765 --> 00:01:03.385 background. 00:01:03.845 --> 00:01:09.245 But I have been Enjoying being part of the specialty chemical sector or 00:01:09.295 --> 00:01:13.475 any element of the broader specialty chemical sector for all of my career. 00:01:13.555 --> 00:01:13.825 Victoria: Yeah. 00:01:13.945 --> 00:01:15.095 How long have you been with SOCMA? 00:01:15.525 --> 00:01:17.925 MIC2: So this is my second tour duty with SOCMA. 00:01:18.202 --> 00:01:22.392 So I worked at SOCMA for three years earlier in my career and I've been in 00:01:22.392 --> 00:01:23.992 this role for eight and a half years. 00:01:24.607 --> 00:01:24.977 Victoria: Awesome. 00:01:25.017 --> 00:01:25.457 That's a long 00:01:25.732 --> 00:01:26.152 MIC2: Yeah, 00:01:26.694 --> 00:01:28.634 Victoria: tell us about what is SOCMA? 00:01:28.734 --> 00:01:33.264 And, and I'm gonna proceed this with a bit of, I attended my first SOCMA 00:01:33.264 --> 00:01:37.879 show about three years ago, and I was like, wow, I was not, I'm not even 00:01:38.059 --> 00:01:43.799 aware that this existed and that all of these companies engaged in the chemical 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.839 industry existed and did what they did. 00:01:46.889 --> 00:01:48.659 So tell us about SOCMA and its members. 00:01:48.669 --> 00:01:49.089 MIC2: Yeah. 00:01:49.089 --> 00:01:52.209 I mean, we're, we're an older association. 00:01:52.209 --> 00:01:54.009 I mean, we're 104 years old. 00:01:54.009 --> 00:01:54.069 Wow. 00:01:54.369 --> 00:01:54.579 Yeah. 00:01:54.579 --> 00:01:56.649 We've been around for a very, very long time. 00:01:56.649 --> 00:02:00.579 I think one of the fun things that we leaned into when we celebrated 00:02:00.579 --> 00:02:03.134 our hundredth anniversary, which unfortunately was during COVID. 00:02:03.479 --> 00:02:05.739 Was the history of the organization. 00:02:05.789 --> 00:02:09.729 And so fun fact is that our very first meeting was at the Hotel 00:02:09.729 --> 00:02:12.149 Washington in Washington, D. 00:02:12.149 --> 00:02:12.579 C. 00:02:12.589 --> 00:02:18.599 And our dinner speaker was Herbert Hoover when he was the secretary of 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:22.659 commerce and his pitch to us was we need to build a specially chemical 00:02:22.659 --> 00:02:24.949 sector here to feed our wartime efforts. 00:02:25.389 --> 00:02:27.549 And, we need a single point of contact. 00:02:27.549 --> 00:02:30.899 So if you all could get yourselves organized around a trade group, that 00:02:30.899 --> 00:02:32.079 would be really helpful to the U. 00:02:32.079 --> 00:02:32.219 S. 00:02:32.219 --> 00:02:32.719 government. 00:02:33.079 --> 00:02:35.879 And so hence trade associations were born. 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:38.819 Victoria: That makes a lot of sense, because I know that as an industry 00:02:38.819 --> 00:02:43.179 group, you're doing a lot to pull together the various points of view, be 00:02:43.179 --> 00:02:49.489 a single point of contact when it comes to policy and regulation and, and helping 00:02:49.959 --> 00:02:52.159 navigate the complex world that we're in. 00:02:52.244 --> 00:02:53.524 MIC2: Yes, we're doing all of that. 00:02:53.524 --> 00:02:57.754 And I think it's so interesting that the that the impetus for that for the 00:02:57.754 --> 00:03:04.094 organization was actually a call by the government to please organize yourselves. 00:03:04.094 --> 00:03:07.364 I have too many conversations with individual companies. 00:03:07.684 --> 00:03:12.354 Can you please get together and, you know, give us your collective point of view? 00:03:12.464 --> 00:03:15.344 And that ask is has been prevalent all the way through? 00:03:15.624 --> 00:03:16.484 Victoria: Yeah, that's awesome. 00:03:16.484 --> 00:03:18.794 And, you know, for a hundred years, as you say. 00:03:19.144 --> 00:03:25.484 Of course, here we are in 2025 and the government's view on, Maybe everything at 00:03:25.484 --> 00:03:28.544 the moment is a little different, so we're going to get into that a little bit later. 00:03:28.844 --> 00:03:32.614 Um, yeah, so, you know, we're sitting here at the SOCMA show, 00:03:32.674 --> 00:03:36.664 just wrapping up what appears to be a really successful conference. 00:03:36.664 --> 00:03:41.734 So, talk to me about the SOCMA show and what it is and how this manifests. 00:03:41.974 --> 00:03:41.994 Yeah, 00:03:42.004 --> 00:03:45.421 Jennifer: so for a long time, SOCMA has been involved in, helping 00:03:45.421 --> 00:03:47.201 businesses find each other, right? 00:03:47.201 --> 00:03:53.211 So in the contract and toll space and the custom chemical space, there's a lot of 00:03:53.221 --> 00:03:54.921 finding a needle in a haystack, right? 00:03:55.126 --> 00:03:59.446 I need just the right partner who can do just the right work for me 00:03:59.486 --> 00:04:00.946 on just the right time schedule. 00:04:01.336 --> 00:04:05.586 Our aim at SOCMA is to help bring down the number of Google searches 00:04:05.606 --> 00:04:08.906 that happen out there and to help people find each other faster. 00:04:08.906 --> 00:04:12.146 And we try to do that with curated services and We have a number 00:04:12.146 --> 00:04:15.936 of business services that help people do that on a regular basis. 00:04:16.386 --> 00:04:20.336 But it's important that we also have an event where we can get together, have the 00:04:20.336 --> 00:04:24.126 industry come together and, especially it helps at the beginning of the year, 00:04:24.446 --> 00:04:27.606 when you're really trying to make sure that you've got your, your projects 00:04:27.606 --> 00:04:32.181 lined up, and you're, you're trying Trying to work on on shoring up sourcing. 00:04:32.891 --> 00:04:33.851 That's really important. 00:04:34.111 --> 00:04:36.991 So we really like having a Q one event. 00:04:37.041 --> 00:04:41.041 So it is a trade show, but we're injecting conference like elements 00:04:41.041 --> 00:04:44.991 so we can bring the rest of what SOCMA works on, which advocacy and 00:04:44.991 --> 00:04:49.321 safety performance and best practice sharing and business intelligence. 00:04:49.331 --> 00:04:52.201 All of that we're trying to infuse into the event. 00:04:52.421 --> 00:04:52.751 Victoria: Right. 00:04:52.951 --> 00:04:54.511 And 1, 300 people this year? 00:04:54.511 --> 00:04:55.271 Is that what I heard? 00:04:55.271 --> 00:04:56.171 MIC2: 1300 people. 00:04:56.171 --> 00:04:56.491 Yeah. 00:04:56.501 --> 00:04:57.581 It's been terrific. 00:04:57.611 --> 00:04:59.511 We had a lot of growth this year. 00:04:59.521 --> 00:05:04.701 I think a lot of that has to do with interest in domestic production. 00:05:04.961 --> 00:05:10.911 And our goal, our aim as the organization is to grow the north american, especially 00:05:10.911 --> 00:05:12.341 chemical environment, the sector. 00:05:12.641 --> 00:05:13.536 Victoria: Yeah. 00:05:13.571 --> 00:05:15.811 MIC2: what we've we've attempted to do here. 00:05:15.926 --> 00:05:16.306 Victoria: Yeah. 00:05:16.366 --> 00:05:18.186 And you talked a little bit about the matchmaking. 00:05:18.186 --> 00:05:21.776 And I think one of the things that happens here and for, for people that may or may 00:05:21.776 --> 00:05:25.796 not know, is a lot of the SOCMA members. 00:05:26.136 --> 00:05:29.876 Many of them are custom manufacturers, toll manufacturers. 00:05:30.236 --> 00:05:35.286 I've noticed a lot of, uh, engineering and instrumentation and other groups as well. 00:05:35.566 --> 00:05:39.116 But so many people that I talk to can't, they're like, Oh, we're here 00:05:39.116 --> 00:05:40.996 looking for somebody that can help make. 00:05:41.756 --> 00:05:44.586 A product that we want to make, or they're here finding somebody 00:05:44.586 --> 00:05:46.766 that helps fill up their assets. 00:05:46.786 --> 00:05:50.226 So it's a really unique in a different way, because I think a 00:05:50.226 --> 00:05:55.626 lot of industry conferences is a lot about speed dating and, you know, 00:05:55.656 --> 00:05:57.416 securing business for the future. 00:05:57.726 --> 00:06:00.036 But this happens in such a unique way. 00:06:00.186 --> 00:06:00.505 MIC2: Yeah. 00:06:00.505 --> 00:06:01.783 And for noticing that. 00:06:01.783 --> 00:06:06.561 I mean, I was really, touched by somebody who who pulled me aside yesterday morning. 00:06:06.571 --> 00:06:08.181 The first time she had been to this event. 00:06:08.191 --> 00:06:10.971 She's been in and around the sector for 30 years, she told me. 00:06:11.491 --> 00:06:17.681 But what she she complimented us on was the ability to have genuine conversations. 00:06:18.141 --> 00:06:21.721 She was saying that a lot of events she goes to, especially trade shows are 00:06:21.721 --> 00:06:27.706 very much A sales energy in the room, but this is a lot of collaboration, and 00:06:27.706 --> 00:06:30.516 it's a lot of, genuine conversation. 00:06:30.866 --> 00:06:35.376 And we've worked really hard to put that part into, um, into this 00:06:35.376 --> 00:06:37.066 environment and to inject that. 00:06:37.066 --> 00:06:40.716 So it's really less about the show, and it's really about creating an 00:06:40.776 --> 00:06:45.286 environment where we can We can make sure those partnerships get done, and 00:06:45.286 --> 00:06:49.796 I just wanted to interject that, um, for the first time, we've actually, 00:06:49.896 --> 00:06:51.526 rallied around a theme for this year. 00:06:51.576 --> 00:06:52.236 Victoria: Oh, okay. 00:06:52.266 --> 00:06:55.296 MIC2: Usually trade shows don't carry themes, but we're trying to inject 00:06:55.306 --> 00:07:00.876 a lot of what SOCMA does into this event as well, so that we can make 00:07:00.876 --> 00:07:02.686 it more additive and value added. 00:07:03.461 --> 00:07:08.291 And so, um, the theme that we chose, and it is, uh, appropriate, is adapting 00:07:08.291 --> 00:07:10.271 supply chains for a changing world. 00:07:10.376 --> 00:07:11.426 Victoria: Mmm. 00:07:11.601 --> 00:07:13.931 MIC2: then we had three different sub themes underneath. 00:07:13.951 --> 00:07:18.231 One was around trying to understand new innovations and how is AI driving those. 00:07:18.781 --> 00:07:20.791 Another one is around policy changes. 00:07:20.851 --> 00:07:21.651 A lot of those 00:07:21.818 --> 00:07:23.258 Victoria: Yeah, a lot of those. 00:07:23.531 --> 00:07:27.861 MIC2: And the third one is about regionalization, localization, what 00:07:27.861 --> 00:07:29.341 are the changing dynamics there? 00:07:29.751 --> 00:07:33.161 All of those things are top of mind and it turned out to be really on target. 00:07:33.916 --> 00:07:37.626 Victoria: And I think that piece around localization is so critical. 00:07:38.386 --> 00:07:43.509 And it ties to that chain story, because I think as across the chemical industry, 00:07:43.549 --> 00:07:47.349 as supply chains have gotten more expensive, have gotten longer, we've 00:07:47.349 --> 00:07:52.709 got all the uncertainties around what the tariff picture is, that creating 00:07:52.719 --> 00:07:57.469 resilient local supply chains, business opportunities becomes really critical. 00:07:57.749 --> 00:07:58.419 MIC2: Absolutely. 00:07:58.859 --> 00:08:04.239 So one of the things that we have been tracking for the last few years is 00:08:04.269 --> 00:08:09.679 asking what part of your new inquiries or existing inquiries do you believe have to 00:08:09.679 --> 00:08:12.129 do with on shoring or reshoring efforts? 00:08:12.659 --> 00:08:15.669 And it's been really interesting because we haven't had we've had anecdotal 00:08:15.699 --> 00:08:20.779 data, but we just did a survey going into this conference and asked again. 00:08:21.129 --> 00:08:23.769 And this is the first time we've really seen a lot of 00:08:23.939 --> 00:08:24.379 Victoria: more. 00:08:25.094 --> 00:08:30.444 MIC2: The theme is very heavy on intentionality around localization. 00:08:31.004 --> 00:08:35.394 I know the last time we asked about this, there were some anecdotes 00:08:35.394 --> 00:08:39.974 that said, I think I'm getting new projects because of localization, but 00:08:39.974 --> 00:08:42.074 it might be that they just aren't. 00:08:42.344 --> 00:08:44.654 My customers aren't telling me that's the driver. 00:08:45.074 --> 00:08:50.054 It might be a new project that in other years they might have shopped it to other 00:08:50.054 --> 00:08:54.144 geographies, but maybe they're shopping it inside of North America now first. 00:08:54.914 --> 00:09:01.334 But this year, when we asked again, we saw a jump in more purposeful localization. 00:09:01.334 --> 00:09:04.884 And that has a lot to do with this changing supply chain and all the 00:09:04.884 --> 00:09:06.254 global dynamics that are happening. 00:09:06.304 --> 00:09:06.964 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:09:07.014 --> 00:09:10.634 And I think what's been interesting as well is when you look at the 00:09:10.644 --> 00:09:14.124 global chemical market, the U. 00:09:14.124 --> 00:09:14.294 S. 00:09:14.314 --> 00:09:19.564 continues to be a bright spot, um, in terms of innovation and growth. 00:09:19.824 --> 00:09:23.354 I saw something, in the Wall Street Journal this morning that just was talking 00:09:23.354 --> 00:09:27.834 about Germany, which Germany was really, in many ways, the European powerhouse 00:09:27.834 --> 00:09:29.814 for so many years for chemicals. 00:09:30.104 --> 00:09:35.169 And yet what we've seen Over the past year and more is continuous announcements 00:09:35.199 --> 00:09:39.959 of Asset shutdowns and closures and so in you know, and I also think in 00:09:39.959 --> 00:09:43.909 the chemical industry a lot of stuff's coming from China but I think you know 00:09:43.909 --> 00:09:49.022 what you talk about this intentionality of on shoring and reshoring and 00:09:49.022 --> 00:09:55.259 localization is a reflection of a global dynamic shift in chemical manufacturing 00:09:55.269 --> 00:09:56.249 MIC2: That's exactly right. 00:09:56.589 --> 00:10:01.509 So we were looking at, you know, we're looking at a changing world, right? 00:10:01.509 --> 00:10:02.839 Everything is in transition. 00:10:02.859 --> 00:10:08.999 And if you go back 10 years ago, the world had been pretty stable, right? 00:10:09.009 --> 00:10:12.859 So we knew where the supply chains were just in time was fine. 00:10:12.869 --> 00:10:14.829 The logistics for the most part were working. 00:10:14.949 --> 00:10:16.509 We were starting to see. 00:10:17.134 --> 00:10:19.694 Pre covid, the idea of plus one, right? 00:10:19.704 --> 00:10:22.474 China plus one dual sourcing. 00:10:22.674 --> 00:10:24.744 Then everybody panicked during covid. 00:10:24.764 --> 00:10:28.494 Then we had the inventory build up and then the inventory drawdowns 00:10:28.524 --> 00:10:29.084 Victoria: been a rough few 00:10:29.434 --> 00:10:30.204 MIC2: it has. 00:10:30.494 --> 00:10:36.624 We always try to try to pull on what's the outlook for the year and coming into 00:10:36.624 --> 00:10:41.664 this year, you know, interestingly, the especially chemical sector, at least 00:10:42.284 --> 00:10:46.944 The people that we pull, they just have this underlying perennial optimism going 00:10:46.944 --> 00:10:51.144 on, and I love that, because each year you come out of the, out of the gate 00:10:51.144 --> 00:10:55.311 thinking it's going to be a good year or we're at least going to be able to, 00:10:55.341 --> 00:10:59.781 um, to see some, some pickup, and I think that has a lot to do with, SOCMA 00:10:59.801 --> 00:11:03.951 members being so diversified too, you know, that, that really helps when 00:11:03.951 --> 00:11:08.091 you're, when you have, you know, a variety of customers in lots of markets 00:11:08.091 --> 00:11:10.181 that are, able to offset each other. 00:11:10.181 --> 00:11:10.201 Yeah. 00:11:10.581 --> 00:11:10.781 Victoria: Yeah. 00:11:10.781 --> 00:11:13.971 And you, and you shared earlier that you had coined a phrase 00:11:14.011 --> 00:11:15.581 coming out of your survey. 00:11:15.591 --> 00:11:15.611 Yeah. 00:11:16.061 --> 00:11:17.291 Can you share it with us? 00:11:17.311 --> 00:11:17.701 MIC2: Okay. 00:11:18.111 --> 00:11:22.426 So, the, the punchline is pragmatic confidence. 00:11:22.936 --> 00:11:24.366 So I'm going to back into how we got 00:11:24.461 --> 00:11:25.041 Victoria: How does, yeah. 00:11:25.041 --> 00:11:25.691 What does that mean? 00:11:25.726 --> 00:11:26.026 MIC2: right. 00:11:26.036 --> 00:11:30.906 So I mentioned, so each year before we come to the show, we do a state of the 00:11:30.906 --> 00:11:32.696 industry report or an outlook report. 00:11:33.036 --> 00:11:34.966 And, that's the part that I deliver. 00:11:34.966 --> 00:11:38.466 So I deliver that on the, on the first morning of the event, we ask all of 00:11:38.466 --> 00:11:41.956 the people that are in our, our show network as well as all of our members 00:11:41.996 --> 00:11:46.076 and other contacts that we have to participate in this outlook survey. 00:11:46.781 --> 00:11:49.731 And then I package that up and I send it, I deliver that in 00:11:50.001 --> 00:11:51.721 the beginning of the event. 00:11:52.201 --> 00:11:53.561 It looks good this year. 00:11:53.684 --> 00:11:56.924 And ultimately, like I said, you know, some of those, those things 00:11:56.924 --> 00:12:00.664 we've been tracking for a while are all very much pointed in growth 00:12:00.704 --> 00:12:05.144 mode, efficiencies and growth are really two trends that came through. 00:12:06.034 --> 00:12:11.004 We got to pragmatic confidence is at the end of the survey, I 00:12:11.064 --> 00:12:12.534 asked an open ended question. 00:12:13.224 --> 00:12:17.074 And we said, okay, last year's phrase was. 00:12:17.409 --> 00:12:18.949 Cautious optimism. 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:23.909 So if cautious optimism defined 2024, what word or phrase 00:12:23.949 --> 00:12:26.039 do you think describes 2025? 00:12:26.209 --> 00:12:28.399 And it was all over the map. 00:12:28.954 --> 00:12:29.394 Victoria: Of course it 00:12:29.769 --> 00:12:33.334 MIC2: I literally had somebody, one person that said, endless 00:12:33.354 --> 00:12:37.744 opportunity, and the very next person that took the survey said bleak. 00:12:38.124 --> 00:12:38.644 Victoria: Oh man. 00:12:38.654 --> 00:12:38.674 It 00:12:38.674 --> 00:12:41.764 MIC2: it went from one side of the coin to another. 00:12:41.814 --> 00:12:46.234 So what I did, using AI, right, because that's the fun thing to 00:12:46.234 --> 00:12:51.604 do now, is I took all of those raw answers and I put it through chatGBT 00:12:51.604 --> 00:12:53.404 and said, what am I looking at? 00:12:53.564 --> 00:12:53.934 Victoria: Yeah. 00:12:54.214 --> 00:12:57.844 MIC2: And it broke it up into into categories for us. 00:12:58.056 --> 00:13:04.196 A good 15 percent of people were those super optimists, real strong optimists. 00:13:04.366 --> 00:13:10.186 And then another 25 percent were kind of the, the solid optimist chart. 00:13:10.786 --> 00:13:15.006 Another 25 percent were kind of moderate growth, something that was a little 00:13:15.016 --> 00:13:16.916 bit more measured in their response. 00:13:17.316 --> 00:13:21.005 And then we had a pretty good clip that said, uncertainty. 00:13:21.067 --> 00:13:25.637 If you dig deeper though, in the uncertain category, it really has 00:13:25.637 --> 00:13:28.677 nothing to do with people just having no idea what's going to happen. 00:13:28.857 --> 00:13:32.997 It's really about, I'm not prepared to make a call because I see this 00:13:32.997 --> 00:13:35.657 happening, this happening, this happening, and this happening. 00:13:35.977 --> 00:13:40.917 And they may not actually, um, those things may be in conflict with each 00:13:40.917 --> 00:13:46.227 other, or there may be some issues that get in the way of what I'm. 00:13:46.407 --> 00:13:50.067 hopeful for, which is a stronger business operating environment. 00:13:50.447 --> 00:13:55.097 So when you take all of that and kind of distill it down and we kept working 00:13:55.097 --> 00:13:59.627 on the language where we landed was that there is confidence, there is 00:13:59.627 --> 00:14:03.867 confidence out there, but people are being extremely pragmatic about it. 00:14:04.177 --> 00:14:05.287 They are informed. 00:14:05.452 --> 00:14:09.522 They are watching, they are monitoring, and they know that they're going to 00:14:09.532 --> 00:14:14.732 have to be agile and, and keep a very close eye to make those little tacks 00:14:14.732 --> 00:14:18.302 along the way, to make sure that they're put, they're still in a good position. 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:23.609 we ended up with pragmatic confidence, which I think really underscores 00:14:24.229 --> 00:14:25.599 the general business climate. 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:26.229 Victoria: I agree. 00:14:26.239 --> 00:14:33.319 And I think it also underscores the nature of this group of companies inside a SOCMA. 00:14:33.339 --> 00:14:36.379 I think that's just, it's a good categorization of that. 00:14:36.429 --> 00:14:38.379 What can you share about the rest of the cervix? 00:14:38.379 --> 00:14:41.389 I know you collected a lot of different information is, you know, what two 00:14:41.389 --> 00:14:43.399 or three things stand out for that? 00:14:43.654 --> 00:14:46.724 MIC2: So the first thing we asked is, okay, so you coming into this 00:14:46.724 --> 00:14:48.504 year, what's your growth outlook? 00:14:48.774 --> 00:14:50.324 And people are anywhere, 97 00:14:50.389 --> 00:14:50.889 Victoria: nine. 00:14:52.149 --> 00:14:52.309 7 00:14:52.324 --> 00:14:55.524 MIC2: percent of the people that took the survey are either stable 00:14:55.584 --> 00:14:57.264 or greater than 5 percent growth. 00:14:57.264 --> 00:14:58.454 So, you know, it's sort of, 00:14:58.829 --> 00:14:59.709 Victoria: Looking for growth this 00:14:59.889 --> 00:15:03.009 MIC2: Yeah, so growth is expected only about three percent 00:15:03.149 --> 00:15:06.559 Victoria: but pragmatic growth, because up to 5 percent is not crazy. 00:15:06.839 --> 00:15:09.589 MIC2: not crazy but it's incremental and it's reliable, 00:15:09.629 --> 00:15:10.189 Victoria: Yes. 00:15:10.189 --> 00:15:11.069 Yes. 00:15:11.249 --> 00:15:15.569 MIC2: there's still this underneath, there's this hope that all of the 00:15:15.569 --> 00:15:20.699 factors that are coming together will really create a surge, right? 00:15:21.009 --> 00:15:22.879 And they are prepared and ready for it. 00:15:23.434 --> 00:15:24.784 They're ready and waiting. 00:15:25.384 --> 00:15:28.714 So good, good growth for this year, right? 00:15:29.144 --> 00:15:32.824 Um, we also asked questions about, you know, adoption of 00:15:32.864 --> 00:15:34.744 technologies and automation. 00:15:34.744 --> 00:15:36.794 And so back to the efficiency question. 00:15:37.024 --> 00:15:39.924 There are a lot of people that when we asked last year, 00:15:39.934 --> 00:15:41.524 where were we on automation? 00:15:41.524 --> 00:15:43.554 A little less adoption. 00:15:43.794 --> 00:15:48.824 Um, and we're looking at automation across and technology adoption, I should say. 00:15:49.344 --> 00:15:51.814 Across a lot of different different elements. 00:15:52.204 --> 00:15:56.124 But that also leads into the efficiency and the growth ideas. 00:15:56.594 --> 00:16:00.264 Other questions we asked was about mitigating risks. 00:16:00.284 --> 00:16:02.004 What are you doing to look at tariffs? 00:16:02.164 --> 00:16:05.044 understanding where tariffs are a number of different things. 00:16:05.044 --> 00:16:08.954 So, um, we'll be publishing those results and putting them on linked in. 00:16:08.954 --> 00:16:09.264 So, 00:16:09.434 --> 00:16:09.724 Victoria: Great. 00:16:09.744 --> 00:16:11.694 And I'm, and hopefully, can I get a copy of that? 00:16:11.694 --> 00:16:15.084 We'll include the link to it in our show notes and on our website so people can 00:16:15.194 --> 00:16:16.274 MIC2: Yeah, yeah. 00:16:16.304 --> 00:16:16.664 Yeah. 00:16:16.964 --> 00:16:20.024 And we do, we, we do surveys throughout the year. 00:16:20.384 --> 00:16:23.924 A lot of things that are anecdotal, 'cause we're trying to get a pulse and we, we 00:16:23.924 --> 00:16:25.784 literally call them our pulse polls. 00:16:26.054 --> 00:16:29.234 So we do these surveys across the year about different things that, that come 00:16:29.414 --> 00:16:29.804 Victoria: Yeah. 00:16:29.814 --> 00:16:33.304 Well, and I've seen them come through and what I would say is, what I 00:16:33.314 --> 00:16:37.544 appreciate about the surveys that you do is that they feel very real. 00:16:37.614 --> 00:16:39.894 Sometimes, you know, surveys come through and you're like, 00:16:39.944 --> 00:16:41.854 oh gosh, I mean, who knows? 00:16:42.194 --> 00:16:46.414 But I think back to the whole pragmatic confidence that underpins 00:16:46.414 --> 00:16:50.644 SOCMON and its members, it's their pragmatic surveys as well to really 00:16:50.644 --> 00:16:52.874 assess what's going on in business. 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:54.899 MIC2: Yeah, I mean, we're trying to be spot on to what's, 00:16:54.939 --> 00:16:56.179 what, what is the driver? 00:16:56.179 --> 00:16:57.819 What do people need to know right now? 00:16:57.892 --> 00:17:01.232 A couple years ago we were looking at, destocking trends. 00:17:01.282 --> 00:17:03.372 So we were keeping track of those. 00:17:03.682 --> 00:17:06.722 So it's really about, you know, what's happening in business right now. 00:17:06.912 --> 00:17:10.476 And that can be additive to all of the economic, indicators 00:17:10.476 --> 00:17:11.376 that people are reading. 00:17:11.451 --> 00:17:11.831 Victoria: Yeah. 00:17:12.201 --> 00:17:16.051 You touched on this as we talked about the survey, but when you think about the 00:17:16.091 --> 00:17:21.651 outlook for specialty and custom chemicals and manufacturing, what does that look 00:17:21.651 --> 00:17:24.421 like when we look into to 2025 and beyond? 00:17:24.421 --> 00:17:26.131 So 00:17:26.131 --> 00:17:33.406 MIC2: SOCMA Vision 2030, and that is a belief in a strategy that we can position 00:17:33.416 --> 00:17:37.026 North America as the preferred geography for specialty chemical manufacturing. 00:17:37.066 --> 00:17:40.906 There are a lot of really positive things happening in the U. 00:17:40.906 --> 00:17:41.166 S. 00:17:41.166 --> 00:17:43.026 or conditions here in the U. 00:17:43.026 --> 00:17:43.386 S. 00:17:43.736 --> 00:17:44.986 A stable business climate. 00:17:45.586 --> 00:17:50.146 relatively speaking, right, with more business friendly, advances to be made. 00:17:50.486 --> 00:17:55.556 Um, strong energy and, energy that is cost efficient. 00:17:55.886 --> 00:18:00.986 We have a strong workforce, high quality outputs, and we have open capacity. 00:18:01.476 --> 00:18:03.846 And so all of those things make the U. 00:18:03.846 --> 00:18:04.066 S. 00:18:04.066 --> 00:18:07.536 Or at least North America, a really strong contender. 00:18:07.671 --> 00:18:09.561 to be that central hub. 00:18:09.611 --> 00:18:14.291 And as I said earlier, that is our aim as an organization, is to 00:18:14.291 --> 00:18:16.211 seize, seize those opportunities. 00:18:16.491 --> 00:18:17.131 Victoria: I think that's great. 00:18:17.131 --> 00:18:19.111 And I'm looking forward to the outputs of that. 00:18:19.381 --> 00:18:22.441 One of the things you talked about, and maybe I know you had an economist 00:18:22.441 --> 00:18:27.361 on stage as well today, talking about workforce development, right? 00:18:27.361 --> 00:18:32.051 So obviously it's great to bring these roles. 00:18:32.071 --> 00:18:34.291 It's great to grow the industry. 00:18:34.781 --> 00:18:37.941 And yet it feels like when I talk to people, we're still 00:18:37.971 --> 00:18:39.631 in a bit of a talent shortage. 00:18:39.981 --> 00:18:45.191 The ability to attract people to the chemical industry, it 00:18:45.191 --> 00:18:47.271 can be tough at times, right? 00:18:47.271 --> 00:18:51.141 So there's a reason that many of the people that are in the industry have 00:18:51.501 --> 00:18:53.231 parents that have been in the industry. 00:18:53.231 --> 00:18:55.121 There's a lot of legacy that occurs. 00:18:55.277 --> 00:18:58.067 But I also know that SOCMA takes some, that you guys are really 00:18:58.067 --> 00:19:01.607 doing some work around workforce development and supporting that. 00:19:01.607 --> 00:19:02.807 So what does that look like for you? 00:19:03.102 --> 00:19:05.602 MIC2: And I think, you know, workforce development is such a 00:19:06.052 --> 00:19:12.632 large, and perennial concern, um, for all of the industry sectors. 00:19:12.632 --> 00:19:17.269 I know my colleagues that work in other sectors are also talking about workforce. 00:19:17.269 --> 00:19:20.499 We want to be looking for what are the ways that we can 00:19:20.499 --> 00:19:21.849 alleviate those pain points. 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:25.389 around trying to find literally the headcount, right? 00:19:25.929 --> 00:19:29.649 Or what are the ways that we can get people up to speed faster? 00:19:30.069 --> 00:19:35.529 And so we're trying to help, help employees work smarter, more efficiently, 00:19:35.539 --> 00:19:40.069 you know, be more informed, have early warning systems, all of those things 00:19:40.069 --> 00:19:45.779 that the people who are actually, you know, in the companies doing the work. 00:19:46.159 --> 00:19:51.289 If we can create efficiencies or, uh, you know, increase productivity, get 00:19:51.289 --> 00:19:55.819 them more knowledgeable, then that just helps the companies move faster. 00:19:56.169 --> 00:19:59.429 So we, we focus a lot around what are those opportunities. 00:19:59.479 --> 00:20:03.859 We're really proud of one of the, services that we have is a chemical 00:20:03.859 --> 00:20:05.819 operator operator training program. 00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:10.179 And a few years ago, about five years ago, we automated this and we 00:20:10.179 --> 00:20:13.339 really build it for kind of entry. 00:20:13.421 --> 00:20:14.131 Operators. 00:20:14.451 --> 00:20:19.811 And that is meant to provide a strong, stable and consistent 00:20:20.031 --> 00:20:26.361 foundation to understand what what a chemical operator needs to know. 00:20:26.841 --> 00:20:32.571 And we really say that it's built for day zero to the end of year two, right? 00:20:32.581 --> 00:20:35.801 So in the first two years, you really need to make sure that 00:20:35.801 --> 00:20:38.961 operator is fundamentally sound and they're going to stay. 00:20:39.934 --> 00:20:45.184 uh, program does not seek to, kick out your, your own training 00:20:45.274 --> 00:20:47.734 Victoria: Right, because, yeah, people have custom programs for their 00:20:48.134 --> 00:20:52.154 MIC2: right, like if we can take care of the fund foundation and the fundamentals 00:20:52.154 --> 00:20:56.594 and make sure that again, back to the industry needs consistency, right? 00:20:56.614 --> 00:21:00.534 So if we can do consistent training, then you can put your. 00:21:00.714 --> 00:21:05.424 Own company spin on that, and that's really important to us. 00:21:05.654 --> 00:21:05.884 Victoria: Yeah. 00:21:05.884 --> 00:21:06.334 Makes sense. 00:21:06.364 --> 00:21:09.754 And then, did I hear that you're also looking to roll out something for 00:21:09.764 --> 00:21:11.984 somewhat more experienced employees? 00:21:12.177 --> 00:21:13.767 MIC2: For the experienced employees. 00:21:13.767 --> 00:21:17.847 Well, I'll I'll tell you one of the really interesting things 00:21:17.847 --> 00:21:18.757 that we're excited about. 00:21:18.757 --> 00:21:23.317 And we have a company from Mexico Viacom that's been helping us with is 00:21:23.317 --> 00:21:25.187 to actually roll it out in Spanish. 00:21:25.737 --> 00:21:30.882 So That is something that, um, we've had, we have an advisory group of, 00:21:30.932 --> 00:21:35.012 manufacturer members that give us suggestions on how to make additions 00:21:35.012 --> 00:21:37.372 and what would be, additive to it. 00:21:37.862 --> 00:21:40.992 Uh, and so that was one of the things that they were looking for, but we've 00:21:40.992 --> 00:21:45.392 added things like chemical safety board videos in there and, process 00:21:45.392 --> 00:21:48.412 safety elements to it and, you know, really trying to build that out. 00:21:48.412 --> 00:21:54.632 Another 00:21:54.967 --> 00:21:58.907 Victoria: at the moment with the Trump administration coming in is just the 00:21:58.907 --> 00:22:05.297 effect of DOGE, the effect of the administrative changes, potentially, 00:22:05.677 --> 00:22:11.477 uh, federal employees leaving, getting skinny down, et cetera, and the effect 00:22:11.477 --> 00:22:16.932 that potentially has on, and Regulatory approvals, innovation, and more. 00:22:17.252 --> 00:22:19.532 Talk to me about that from a SOCMA perspective. 00:22:19.552 --> 00:22:20.017 MIC2: Yeah, 00:22:20.057 --> 00:22:25.087 I mean, living in Washington it has been an, an absolute crazy month. 00:22:25.412 --> 00:22:27.852 You know, I understand that. 00:22:27.871 --> 00:22:32.337 There is some, desire to find efficiencies in the federal government, 00:22:32.357 --> 00:22:33.887 and that makes perfect sense. 00:22:34.327 --> 00:22:35.637 We're about a month in now. 00:22:36.017 --> 00:22:40.327 Um, a lot of, a lot of sweeping changes have been, enacted. 00:22:40.687 --> 00:22:44.317 but we are really concerned about the ability of the federal 00:22:44.317 --> 00:22:50.727 workforce to perform the duties that we as Americans have become, 00:22:50.836 --> 00:22:54.896 Accustomed to and we take for granted because they work seamlessly. 00:22:55.010 --> 00:22:55.927 Victoria: So, you 00:22:56.286 --> 00:22:58.156 MIC2: So, you know, in thinking 00:22:58.222 --> 00:23:00.361 Victoria: So give me an example of what that could be. 00:23:00.526 --> 00:23:03.676 MIC2: I mentioned earlier that I have a passport that I need to renew, right? 00:23:03.686 --> 00:23:06.806 So I only have a few months before I need to be traveling or, you know, 00:23:06.806 --> 00:23:08.646 or I can't travel because it expires. 00:23:09.126 --> 00:23:11.126 Um, I don't know if. 00:23:11.466 --> 00:23:15.786 The State Department will have enough people to process my passport in, 00:23:15.876 --> 00:23:17.676 you know, in a normal time frame. 00:23:18.006 --> 00:23:23.126 So those are things that, you know, you're not thinking about, but all of us in this 00:23:23.166 --> 00:23:27.996 industry and listening to this podcast would be interested to, uh, to, to, to 00:23:28.191 --> 00:23:30.061 Victoria: I honestly hadn't thought about the passport 00:23:30.061 --> 00:23:31.491 processing until you mentioned it. 00:23:31.501 --> 00:23:31.791 I was like, 00:23:31.926 --> 00:23:36.696 MIC2: Yeah, I'm starting to panic. 00:23:36.696 --> 00:23:41.396 I'm gonna tomorrow go and take my forms back to, uh, to, the post office, 00:23:41.596 --> 00:23:43.396 which I hear is now getting privatized. 00:23:43.746 --> 00:23:45.256 So rumors. 00:23:45.516 --> 00:23:46.356 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:23:46.356 --> 00:23:48.076 At least the latest headlines on that. 00:23:48.506 --> 00:23:51.746 But coming back to how does that hit the industry? 00:23:52.001 --> 00:23:52.031 Victoria: And, 00:23:52.756 --> 00:23:55.476 MIC2: You know, it is, it is a concern, right? 00:23:55.476 --> 00:24:03.036 So on the one hand, we can feel somewhat confident that the number of new regs 00:24:03.036 --> 00:24:05.366 coming is probably pretty limited, right? 00:24:05.946 --> 00:24:11.636 Turning down that, that spigot on regulatory new, announcements. 00:24:12.266 --> 00:24:18.126 Um, but on the flip side, we know that new chemistries, new 00:24:18.126 --> 00:24:22.886 pharmaceuticals, All kinds of new entries to the market are already 00:24:22.966 --> 00:24:25.886 slowing or slower than they need to be. 00:24:25.966 --> 00:24:27.906 Innovation is getting throttled already. 00:24:28.296 --> 00:24:36.476 So what happens if your case manager either takes a federal buyout or they 00:24:36.496 --> 00:24:40.066 are part of the DOGE workforce reduction? 00:24:40.976 --> 00:24:42.806 What happens to the pile? 00:24:43.761 --> 00:24:48.021 already don't have enough employees to keep our businesses moving. 00:24:48.301 --> 00:24:50.391 So we're really concerned about that. 00:24:50.391 --> 00:24:53.081 And somebody is going to be that person, right? 00:24:53.081 --> 00:24:58.321 Some company that is is waiting right now is going to have their 00:24:58.321 --> 00:25:00.261 case manager not be there tomorrow. 00:25:00.771 --> 00:25:04.461 And then we're gonna have to see, what the realities are inside 00:25:04.461 --> 00:25:06.001 the agency to keep things moving. 00:25:06.136 --> 00:25:10.046 Victoria: and I've certainly heard really for the past several years that it's been 00:25:10.046 --> 00:25:13.546 very slow to get new products approved to 00:25:13.666 --> 00:25:14.141 MIC2: Absolutely. 00:25:14.381 --> 00:25:14.661 Yeah, 00:25:14.906 --> 00:25:17.686 Victoria: know, the cast numbers to get whatever it is that people 00:25:17.686 --> 00:25:21.436 need that they're relying on a government service to provide. 00:25:21.491 --> 00:25:25.561 MIC2: new chemicals has been the primary focus for SOCMA. 00:25:25.581 --> 00:25:25.871 Right? 00:25:25.871 --> 00:25:27.831 This is the pipeline of innovation. 00:25:27.831 --> 00:25:30.551 And that's what we focus on primarily is new chemistries. 00:25:31.031 --> 00:25:35.117 And we know that it's been a very long process. 00:25:35.117 --> 00:25:37.797 They're supposed to give you an answer in 90 days. 00:25:38.077 --> 00:25:40.057 Right now, it takes about a year and a half. 00:25:40.457 --> 00:25:45.647 But I just talked to an EPA, um, a new person that's going back to EPA 00:25:46.037 --> 00:25:49.067 and she says prepare for two years. 00:25:49.067 --> 00:25:53.177 If you put a new chemical in today, it's likely to take two years. 00:25:53.187 --> 00:25:55.307 So they really have a long backlog. 00:25:55.612 --> 00:25:58.282 Victoria: And the hard part of that of course is everybody's trying 00:25:58.282 --> 00:26:04.972 to, Innovate, grow, um, meet new sustainability targets, right? 00:26:04.972 --> 00:26:08.602 There's all kinds of things, and so if we can't get the products approved, it's hard 00:26:08.602 --> 00:26:12.632 to meet the targets that we've set for ourselves, or that others have set for us. 00:26:12.633 --> 00:26:13.042 Yeah. 00:26:13.042 --> 00:26:13.252 Yeah. 00:26:13.257 --> 00:26:14.367 MIC2: And, but we are hopeful. 00:26:14.367 --> 00:26:20.542 I mean, If we can tie together the aims of this new administration together 00:26:20.542 --> 00:26:26.102 with, you know, the areas of improvement, what can we do to fix things rather 00:26:26.102 --> 00:26:28.072 than to talk about what's broken? 00:26:28.492 --> 00:26:33.332 But let's put the solutions on the table and the more bite sized those solutions 00:26:33.332 --> 00:26:34.982 are, the more likely we are to get 00:26:35.247 --> 00:26:36.067 Victoria: Yeah, I love that. 00:26:36.067 --> 00:26:38.727 And I and I do think that I appreciate how you say that the 00:26:38.737 --> 00:26:43.717 aims of the the administration because it's not to decimate things. 00:26:43.807 --> 00:26:48.347 It's to make it better, more efficient, more cost effective. 00:26:48.627 --> 00:26:52.677 Because, you know, as you say, 12 to 18 months or two years 00:26:52.677 --> 00:26:53.737 to approve a new product. 00:26:53.797 --> 00:26:54.867 We know that that's wrong. 00:26:54.867 --> 00:26:56.017 So how do we fix it? 00:26:56.017 --> 00:26:56.297 Yeah, 00:26:56.346 --> 00:27:02.136 MIC2: We have a huge advantage in SOCMA because we, uh, represent, contract and 00:27:02.136 --> 00:27:07.426 toll and custom manufacturers, as well as, especially chemical producers themselves. 00:27:07.426 --> 00:27:10.026 So about 80 percent of our members do both. 00:27:10.076 --> 00:27:15.356 But in this survey that we asked about, what's the available capacity for your 00:27:15.356 --> 00:27:20.436 facilities right now, people are reporting anywhere from 10 to 20 percent seems to be 00:27:20.436 --> 00:27:23.596 the largest, but some are even over 30%. 00:27:23.596 --> 00:27:26.556 And you might say that's a negative thing that pipeline 00:27:26.556 --> 00:27:28.166 softness softness is happening. 00:27:28.996 --> 00:27:30.056 That may be true. 00:27:30.286 --> 00:27:33.866 But we've also we also know that there are a number of companies 00:27:33.896 --> 00:27:39.816 that use the Downturn in the end of 22 and 23 to actually do all the 00:27:39.816 --> 00:27:45.126 reinvestments after they were running so hot and so hard during COVID. 00:27:45.776 --> 00:27:49.976 It was a great time to actually take a pause, put in new assets. 00:27:50.246 --> 00:27:53.366 You know, I, I know of one company that literally took an entire building 00:27:53.366 --> 00:27:55.076 down and put another building back up. 00:27:55.076 --> 00:27:55.136 Wow. 00:27:55.286 --> 00:27:59.546 They had been waiting for an opportunity to take the their assets offline and 00:27:59.546 --> 00:28:02.576 this gave them the chance to kind of reset So we know people who have put it 00:28:02.606 --> 00:28:08.086 have put a lot of capex in for exactly this purpose because the expectation 00:28:08.086 --> 00:28:13.676 is That with all of the pressures and all of the the global dynamic shifts 00:28:14.166 --> 00:28:14.586 Victoria: that 00:28:14.986 --> 00:28:18.526 MIC2: North America is going to be a place where you need gonna want 00:28:18.536 --> 00:28:24.991 to do local production and having 30 percent capacity means that, you 00:28:24.991 --> 00:28:26.521 know, the opportunities are there. 00:28:26.646 --> 00:28:29.206 Victoria: Yeah, poised for growth is what it sounds like to me. 00:28:29.216 --> 00:28:30.676 That people are ready for that growth. 00:28:31.026 --> 00:28:31.326 Awesome. 00:28:31.626 --> 00:28:32.846 So Jennifer, this has been great. 00:28:32.856 --> 00:28:37.396 If there were things that you would tell people to, you know, keep your 00:28:37.396 --> 00:28:40.816 eye on, because these are signed posts for the year and signed posts 00:28:40.866 --> 00:28:42.486 as we go forward, what would they be? 00:28:42.556 --> 00:28:47.226 MIC2: Yeah, so I think we need to really understand the federal workforce, right? 00:28:47.606 --> 00:28:54.446 Paying attention to what happens after this initial surge of activities 00:28:54.456 --> 00:28:59.656 through executive orders, all of what Elon Musk is, uh, is, has been, 00:28:59.736 --> 00:29:03.866 effectuating right now, and some of the cabinet members are not in place yet. 00:29:04.356 --> 00:29:08.096 So then how do you transition from the White House led, 00:29:08.736 --> 00:29:11.496 initiatives into the agencies? 00:29:11.676 --> 00:29:14.696 So I think there's a bumpy part that's going to happen there. 00:29:14.896 --> 00:29:18.666 We're going to need to wait and see what happens, and then we're going to have 00:29:18.666 --> 00:29:26.301 to do a lot of proactive, supportive messaging to the administration 00:29:26.701 --> 00:29:28.781 on how we're going to help. 00:29:29.141 --> 00:29:31.951 And we are going to help with these aims. 00:29:32.901 --> 00:29:33.941 We are in a good 00:29:34.031 --> 00:29:34.881 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:29:35.081 --> 00:29:38.001 And I, I mean, obviously with you being based in Washington D. 00:29:38.001 --> 00:29:38.211 C. 00:29:38.211 --> 00:29:42.481 and I know just the efforts that SOCMA and its team puts in terms 00:29:42.481 --> 00:29:45.841 of helping to navigate this environment, it's so critical. 00:29:46.331 --> 00:29:46.651 Yeah. 00:29:46.961 --> 00:29:47.281 Awesome. 00:29:47.441 --> 00:29:48.051 Well, thank you. 00:29:48.061 --> 00:29:49.251 Thank you for joining me today. 00:29:49.251 --> 00:29:50.321 This has been really great. 00:29:50.331 --> 00:29:51.091 MIC2: Thank you for having 00:29:51.211 --> 00:29:51.621 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:29:51.621 --> 00:29:54.711 And thanks everyone for watching and listening today. 00:29:54.711 --> 00:29:57.161 Keep watching, keep listening, keep following, and we'll 00:29:57.161 --> 00:29:58.541 talk with you again soon.