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Welcome to Digication
Scholars Conversations.

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I'm your host, Jeff Yan.

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In this episode, you will hear
part two of my conversation with

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Abe Reshad, Director of Language
Technology and Academic Support at

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Oberlin College and Conservatory.

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More links and information about
today's conversation can be

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found on Digication's Twitter.

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Facebook and Instagram.

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Full episodes of Digication Scholars
Conversations can be found on

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YouTube or your favorite podcast app.

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I actually had a, um, recently a pretty
amazing experience myself with this.

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I was, um, traveling in, in Alaska,
um, and, um, and, uh, I visited,

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um, A group there and this group is
just really an unbelievable group

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and it's, um, it's a group, um, that
is part of what's called a Fab Lab.

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And so it's like the fabrication lab
and it's, it's, it's like a, it's a

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pretty big thing all around the world.

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It's, it's well funded and they do
a lot of 3D printing and whatnot.

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But what's amazing about this group
is that this entire lab there was

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established for native Alaskan, um, It's
so K 12 students can basically be there.

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It's their, you know, home away from home.

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Oh, wonderful.

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Program.

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However you, you know, like there's
a lot of ways to look at it.

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Look at it.

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And then I'm kind of always wondering,
well, so what do they do there?

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You know, they, they always,
you know, provide amazing.

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Examples that makes me just realize
how little I think, you know, and,

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and, and they were showing, um, they
had an object that they created that

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said, this is how we can study and see
how our answer students build canoes.

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Oh, wow.

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And these are native Alaskan
canoes that, I mean, they were.

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Like, you know, many, I don't know
how many years of experience had been

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put into this to perfect these canoes
because they use it, use this stuff

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to fish and they need it in order
to sustain, you know, they, they,

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you know, they don't fish for fun.

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They're fishing because they need.

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We need the, the fish for, you know, for
the oil, for the, for the, for, you know,

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for potentially for a different, um,
uh, day to day objects, you know, that

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they make with, et cetera, et cetera.

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So it's, it's a pretty amazing,
um, thing for them to be able to

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sort of use technology in that way
to, to understand and study it.

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Oh yeah, absolutely.

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And it's such a great age to do it where,
I mean, You have an audience where they're

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hungry for that kind of tactile experience
and a way to, you know, work those

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creative muscles and they're willing and
able to do it if they have the resources.

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I mean, our kids are pretty ready to go.

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And I think that this is the part too,
though, which is, um, where, and I just

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appreciate, appreciate this part so much.

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I wanted to just talk about it a little
bit more, which is, look, There is

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something, at least the geek inside
of me, just, you know, like, as soon

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as you said 3D, I already, I've been.

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And the 3D printing of objects and
like being able to, just the process of

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that, it just sounds awesome and fun.

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You know, like, the idea is
to create these things out of

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thin air, you know, it just.

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Well, it's not thin air, I guess it's
the filaments, but still, you know,

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it feels like it's thin air, right?

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Yep, so it's like so much about, you
know, being able to use your imagination

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and, you know, being able to see.

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To me, that's almost like just
the beginning part of, you know,

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getting people in the door.

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Because the real, the real
learning happens when you give

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them the space and the time to...

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Absorb themselves into being
able to touch this object and

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look at it and play with it.

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And, and that space and time
feels like to me is really the

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thing that is, if anything,
missing in higher education today.

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I think that all the people that
are saying, you know, we're not

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teaching the students enough.

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I actually think that we might
be trying to cramp in too much.

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We're not giving them.

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Space to, to just digest and reflect.

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Yeah, I'm in agreement with that.

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You know, I think that there's a
lot of knowledge that is gained.

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You have like, um, you have the activating
objectives and then you have these

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objectives that kind of carry out.

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Um, you know, as a result of what you're
doing, it's like, how do we, um, how do

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we leverage these kind of experiences
in such a way that we're kind of, you

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know, you know, we're succeeding in
meeting, uh, more than one objective at

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once, you know, I mean, I guess thinking
of that from a planning perspective,

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but then also, I mean, yeah, I mean,
it's, it's, there's a, a true need for

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these types of experiences for sure.

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Now let's switch gears for a minute,
because you had said that you, Obviously

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work with all the faculty members as well.

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What are some of the, what have your
experience been trying to get faculty

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members to get engaged into, you know,
3D printing, into portfolios, into the

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kind of, you know, you know, sort of
these new creative ways of teaching and

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learning, you know, how do you, how do you
get them, how do you get them on board?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think that that just, it
starts with a conversation like this.

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I think that, um, especially with, you
know, technology that may seem out of

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reach, you know, kind of, uh, like a
low stakes conversation about, you know,

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what we can do, um, collaboratively and,
and that's like relationship building.

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And then yeah.

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You know, um, and then kind of making
that a part of the conversation, you

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know, so the lab is in, um, Peters
Hall, which is kind of where a lot of

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the language faculty and staff are.

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And, and so that's like, that's been
the only way to really get it done.

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Um, and then there's also been, you know,
having some, having some programming

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too, to kind of invite people over.

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But I feel like the, The big
curricular, uh, projects to really

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get into the classroom have been just
conversations and, and, uh, having

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a fun, informal conversation like
this one and, and just seeing what's

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possible and then experimenting, you
know, that's been how it's been done

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here and at a small community, at a
small liberal arts college 3000, 000.

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Um, you know, students, we have a lot
of staff, but like, it's still a good

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environment for that type, I guess,
of that type of way of interacting and

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seeing if we can bring people in that way.

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Yeah.

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So in working, in your experience working
with faculty, you know, in, in adopting

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these things, has there, has there
been, I don't know, memorable hurdles or

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surprises that, that, that comes to mind?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think that, um, you know,
I think that, you know, that the,

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for me, For some, I think it's
that, that million dollar question,

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like, okay, what's this doing here?

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You know, um, and, uh, and so, and
answering it responded to that right away.

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Um, but like, but even then, it's,
um, there's, there's, uh, I mean.

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Every, every person, you know, I work
with people who've been teaching,

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uh, for years, you know, and it's
not enough to answer that question.

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They have years of experience of not
using that in the classroom and never

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felt feeling the need of doing it.

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And so, um, so, yeah, I mean, we have a
really kind of interesting conversation

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where I talk about how I've used it
and, uh, And then we see what happens,

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you know, and maybe not agree or
disagree, but still kind of, I feel

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like people, even though they might
disagree, they're still really curious.

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And they're, they're, and they
can, yeah, and my colleagues can

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definitely wrap their heads around
the possibilities of doing it.

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And so, and speaking of like space,
a lot of times it's like, when we

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talk about, um, you know, these
kind of curricular, um, advancements

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or like these new ideas, it's, we
still have to fit it in, you know?

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And so, uh, and so, you know, getting
them on board is one thing, but then like,

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you know, getting to that point where.

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Um, they make space for it in their
curriculum for the next class.

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Uh, so, you know, a lot of times
these conversations are happening

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like a year in advance, right?

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Uh, and so, uh, yeah.

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And so like, and that's a
different type of conversation.

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Uh, and that's a, that's
another leap, right?

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It's like that first leap is like, this
is, you know, this can make a difference.

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Oh, I can see how that
can make a difference.

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And the next leap is, okay,
we're going to put this in.

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In our, our classroom, we're going
to use it, you know, and, um, and the

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second part doesn't always happen, but,
you know, there's a lot of variables

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and doesn't mean that they can't
have, and there's a lot of like co

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curricular or extracurricular experiences
that we can still offer at the lab.

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Um, that can give those experiences
to students in another way.

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What are some of the, you know, like,
maybe not so much purely about them

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adopting new, you know, technologies.

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And it doesn't have to be that, right?

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Because they might be doing
something super innovative.

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Exactly.

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It's, it's just fine.

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But what are some of the, um, what,
what do you see as some of the

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biggest hurdles and issues that
faculty members face these days?

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I mean, I know that, you know, students,
for example, also face a lot of their

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own issues, you know, um, uh, um, and
talking to different people in this

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series of, um, you know, uh, podcasts,
um, and conversations, you know, people

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had talked about everything from mental
health to, you know, um, um, you know, the

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financial burdens and to whatever else.

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But, you know, as someone who's working
with faculty on a day to day basis

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and, um, what are some of the issues
that they, that you see them facing?

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Right.

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I, I do feel like, um, you know, I kind
of wonder if this is more a symptom

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than cause, but I think like, you
know, a symptom of just being kind

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of overwhelmed or having a plate full
is kind of that resistance to, you

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know, a new platform, whatever the
platform is, you know, um, even if it.

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Um, even if whatever platform can
help streamline things and provide a

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certain experience, um, you know, you
know, everyone's kind of overwhelmed.

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I feel like there is not
everyone, but I do think that,

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you know, um, faculty, staff.

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In general, and this is across the
board, I think in most higher ed

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institutions, like everyone's, we
were wearing multiple hats and it

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takes, you know, a lot of effort.

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And sometimes there's just not that
mental space to make room for it.

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And then there's that resistance.

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And, um, I can certainly
empathize with it.

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And, uh, And then just try to have a
normal con try to have kind of a, a

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conversation about things and demonstrate
it and uh, maybe brainstorm, um, but, you

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know, at the end of the day, you know,
there, I think that resistance is, well,

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you know, uh, people in their, you know,
I'm trying to be careful here, but like,

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you know, they're trying to carry all
of this weight, you know, and, I think

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that's what it is, you know what I mean?

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And whatever that might be, whether
it be like, you know, uh, getting

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an extra chair responsibility or
there's always new needs that come up.

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I think any good institution is, uh,
is sensitive to the needs of their

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students and is making sure that,
um, that the faculty and staff are

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able to kind of meet those needs.

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Um, but that also comes at a price.

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Where, you know, yeah, it gets tricky.

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It is, it is.

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I mean, there isn't actually,
if anything, an ever increasing

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amount of needs by students.

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Right.

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And it's not the fault
or anything like that.

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It's more, to me, it feels a lot more,
it's about, you know, a changing world.

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Also, a change of, you know,
Different sort of support

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structure that's necessary.

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I mean, look, people used to not be able
to come out if they are, you know, in the

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LGBTQ plus community and they, they may,
you know, coming out in college was not.

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You know, it was not a given, it
certainly wasn't a, you know, it

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would be a very scary thing to do.

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But because of that, college didn't
need to have to support people

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who could have had that need.

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But today, many, many students...

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I don't think that they necessarily choose
to come out during college, but during

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these formative years, during the years
when your brains are still, you know,

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trying to develop, you know, you, you
know, I, we know science, you know, in,

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in, in, in our bio, biology, that our
brains really don't get fully developed

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until, you know, at least 26 or so.

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Right.

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Um, and so these are some of
the years when, when certain

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aspects of life start to.

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Take charge.

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Yeah.

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And if we're not there
to support them, who is?

217
00:14:33,260 --> 00:14:33,709
Exactly.

218
00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:34,769
Exactly.

219
00:14:35,050 --> 00:14:40,639
So these are the types of things
that colleges, to me, has taken

220
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,200
on the role of doing that.

221
00:14:43,189 --> 00:14:48,940
Um, you know, and I'm really not sure.

222
00:14:49,925 --> 00:14:54,275
First of all, I'm not sure if people
would, I would imagine so many people

223
00:14:54,275 --> 00:14:58,705
won't agree with me, you know, that
that's what the colleges are doing.

224
00:14:58,845 --> 00:15:01,984
Now whether they're supposed to be
doing that, I don't, I also don't

225
00:15:01,984 --> 00:15:07,534
know, but it certainly doesn't say
that on the degree, on the certificate.

226
00:15:07,585 --> 00:15:10,755
Yeah, that's an interesting point
too, but there is a level of...

227
00:15:11,075 --> 00:15:17,815
Um, stakes were, you know, you're trying
to, uh, enable or facilitate students to

228
00:15:17,815 --> 00:15:23,935
participate in this academic community
to be, to have that buy it and to feel,

229
00:15:24,525 --> 00:15:27,965
you know, that responsibility that,
you know, they have something to offer.

230
00:15:28,115 --> 00:15:31,485
I mean, what does it take
to get them to that point?

231
00:15:31,605 --> 00:15:35,125
You know, um, it's a lot more
than what they did in the

232
00:15:35,125 --> 00:15:37,064
fifties for sure, you know?

233
00:15:37,394 --> 00:15:38,104
Right, right, right.

234
00:15:38,104 --> 00:15:40,865
You can't just go like, here's
a bunch of stuff, learn it,

235
00:15:40,885 --> 00:15:42,624
test it, we're done, right?

236
00:15:42,634 --> 00:15:42,904
Yeah.

237
00:15:43,424 --> 00:15:45,694
That, that sounds super clean and simple.

238
00:15:46,414 --> 00:15:48,135
I know, very naive, right?

239
00:15:48,154 --> 00:15:49,275
It's like, oh my god.

240
00:15:51,685 --> 00:15:53,735
You can, you can take
away the 3D printer now.

241
00:15:55,605 --> 00:15:55,915
Right.

242
00:15:56,325 --> 00:16:01,175
Um, but, but it's, it's just, yeah,
it's, it's, it feels like that.

243
00:16:01,595 --> 00:16:06,185
It feels like that the needs of
students have changed dramatically.

244
00:16:06,485 --> 00:16:06,765
Yeah.

245
00:16:07,145 --> 00:16:07,575
Absolutely.

246
00:16:08,025 --> 00:16:12,865
I mean, just, we were talking about, you
know, getting them to, to get a sense

247
00:16:12,865 --> 00:16:16,544
of, you know, sort of grounding and
developing their own passion and all that,

248
00:16:16,814 --> 00:16:19,304
that, that also sort of almost isn't.

249
00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:24,270
You know, like people say, what do you,
what are you going to school to study?

250
00:16:24,270 --> 00:16:25,400
What are you going to school for?

251
00:16:25,410 --> 00:16:28,970
And students are supposed to just
know that that's, that's hard, right?

252
00:16:29,010 --> 00:16:33,800
That's actually part of the, that's one
of the hard questions, you know, and you

253
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,859
are expecting them to just know, right?

254
00:16:37,059 --> 00:16:41,400
As if, as if, Oh, it was, it was
printed on your driver's license.

255
00:16:41,580 --> 00:16:42,819
You should know already.

256
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,060
You know, like you are supposed to
be, you know, an engineer, now go

257
00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:48,960
for it and then you'll be all set.

258
00:16:48,980 --> 00:16:49,530
That's not how it works.

259
00:16:50,420 --> 00:16:56,079
I mean, I think in my generation too,
I mean, like, um, you know, born in

260
00:16:56,079 --> 00:16:58,800
1978, went to college in the 90s.

261
00:16:58,850 --> 00:17:04,860
And, you know, I, I think that, um,
I guess from my context, my neck of

262
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:07,410
the woods where I grew up, you know,
there was still this understanding

263
00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:09,155
that like, it's like, Go to college.

264
00:17:09,345 --> 00:17:11,035
You'll just, you'll be just fine.

265
00:17:11,415 --> 00:17:13,335
You just pick a, pick a major.

266
00:17:13,734 --> 00:17:14,365
It'll be fine.

267
00:17:14,385 --> 00:17:14,845
You know what I mean?

268
00:17:14,845 --> 00:17:20,875
There wasn't a lot of support to really
kind of engage with, um, you know,

269
00:17:21,535 --> 00:17:25,664
to, to help you engage with yourself
or with the classes and way and make.

270
00:17:25,829 --> 00:17:27,819
Connections, which are vital.

271
00:17:28,420 --> 00:17:33,200
Um, I mean, we're basically, and that's
why there's a lot of second career, right?

272
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:38,429
You know, I think that myself and even
my partner as well, you know, we, you

273
00:17:38,429 --> 00:17:43,540
know, we've expanded beyond our degrees,
uh, you know, moved on to others,

274
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,839
uh, to do what we're doing right now.

275
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,920
Um, and, um, and not that
that wouldn't happen before.

276
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,589
I'm not, you know, I mean, I'm not,
uh, I guess I'm not, no regrets

277
00:17:54,589 --> 00:17:56,479
in terms of my own journey, but.

278
00:17:56,970 --> 00:18:03,930
There is that sense where, um, you're,
and then also there's the economic piece

279
00:18:03,930 --> 00:18:07,420
where, you know, you have to kind of,
uh, roll with the punches and see the

280
00:18:07,420 --> 00:18:13,600
market and see how you can retool to,
to, to partake and participate in that.

281
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:19,860
Um, but yeah, I, I wonder what that would
have, would have been like to, to have

282
00:18:19,860 --> 00:18:24,889
that type of engagement with, um, the
major with, with, with my fields of study.

283
00:18:24,909 --> 00:18:26,090
Even though I did feel like I was.

284
00:18:26,365 --> 00:18:30,855
Studying what I was really interested
in, you know, linguistics and language

285
00:18:30,855 --> 00:18:33,175
education, at least at the time.

286
00:18:33,175 --> 00:18:38,900
It, it, Uh, yeah, I just kind of wonder
what that would have been like, where

287
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:40,230
would that reflective process go?

288
00:18:40,230 --> 00:18:43,440
Because I, you know, I do wonder, I
mean, there are, you meet every now

289
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,429
and then students where this is a
part of their practice somehow when

290
00:18:47,429 --> 00:18:51,980
they grew up, they, they developed
this habit of keeping a journal.

291
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,650
You know, and, and, and always
kind of reflecting on what they're

292
00:18:56,659 --> 00:19:01,729
doing and who they are and, and,
and, and taking power from it.

293
00:19:01,740 --> 00:19:05,060
Like it's not, it's not this
thing you chuck off the list, you

294
00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:10,800
know, but it's like, Oh, I'm being
energized by this amazing practice.

295
00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:14,510
And you know, I feel like I've gotten
to that point now in my life for

296
00:19:14,510 --> 00:19:19,969
sure, uh, in the thirties, you know,
but it's like, but you know, um,

297
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:22,739
certainly it's, there's no reason why.

298
00:19:23,165 --> 00:19:28,535
You know, uh, students can start this
practice earlier, soon, you know.

299
00:19:30,255 --> 00:19:33,675
Well, I think that that's a, um,
there's a really interesting way for

300
00:19:33,684 --> 00:19:37,724
me to think about, you know, the value
of the type of education that you

301
00:19:37,724 --> 00:19:41,915
provide at Oberlin or it's similar,
actually many similar institutions

302
00:19:41,945 --> 00:19:43,935
are trying to crack this nut, right?

303
00:19:44,405 --> 00:19:44,505
Right.

304
00:19:44,525 --> 00:19:49,595
Which is how do you engage
students, um, beyond.

305
00:19:50,879 --> 00:19:55,890
You know, and, and try to, to
figure a way to dedicate themselves

306
00:19:55,890 --> 00:19:57,800
to, to doing things that matter.

307
00:19:58,199 --> 00:20:01,360
Um, and you get to
define also what matters.

308
00:20:01,389 --> 00:20:04,139
You don't get told what matters.

309
00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:07,969
Um, and that's, that's
a, that's actually a.

310
00:20:08,225 --> 00:20:12,264
Beautiful way of helping
them to see the world.

311
00:20:12,334 --> 00:20:15,475
And, and I think as a result can
make the world a better place.

312
00:20:15,735 --> 00:20:16,635
Oh, absolutely.

313
00:20:16,664 --> 00:20:21,554
I mean, like having a community of
enlightened people engages others.

314
00:20:22,554 --> 00:20:23,114
Sign me up.

315
00:20:23,764 --> 00:20:24,175
Right.

316
00:20:24,395 --> 00:20:24,774
You know.

317
00:20:26,185 --> 00:20:28,395
The problem, of course, is
that it takes a while, right?

318
00:20:28,465 --> 00:20:29,675
Oh, yeah, exactly.

319
00:20:29,784 --> 00:20:31,575
This group of students,
they're not gonna...

320
00:20:32,284 --> 00:20:39,254
You know, let's, let's take this cohort
of like 2021, you know, it'll, I mean,

321
00:20:39,254 --> 00:20:44,624
I'm sure some of them are doing great
things, um, already and, uh, but, you

322
00:20:44,624 --> 00:20:50,515
know, we're really not going to see the,
the, the, the bulk of the, the impact, you

323
00:20:50,515 --> 00:20:52,985
know, like 10, 20 years from now, right?

324
00:20:53,015 --> 00:20:56,774
Like when we come back and how
about we, we do it, the education

325
00:20:56,785 --> 00:20:58,935
scholars in 2000 and what is it?

326
00:20:59,074 --> 00:20:59,875
41.

327
00:20:59,875 --> 00:21:00,814
And yeah, there you go.

328
00:21:00,814 --> 00:21:01,745
Let's come back to it.

329
00:21:01,774 --> 00:21:02,135
Right.

330
00:21:02,195 --> 00:21:08,445
And try to figure out what the, what
the then, then cohort, you know, of, uh,

331
00:21:08,495 --> 00:21:11,235
Oberlin alum, what, what they are up to.

332
00:21:11,475 --> 00:21:11,804
Right.

333
00:21:11,804 --> 00:21:14,774
I mean, like, it's so interesting
how it's like, it's this

334
00:21:14,794 --> 00:21:16,715
investment that you're really.

335
00:21:16,980 --> 00:21:20,650
You really have to go in on and you're
not going to see the results right away.

336
00:21:20,650 --> 00:21:22,360
It's very much like climate change, right?

337
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,910
Where you're just kind of like,
okay, we have this problem.

338
00:21:24,910 --> 00:21:26,200
We don't really understand.

339
00:21:26,749 --> 00:21:30,989
And we're putting all this resources in
and you know, we're, we're trying to turn

340
00:21:30,989 --> 00:21:34,850
the dial and it's life or death for sure.

341
00:21:34,859 --> 00:21:36,730
But we got to do it anyways.

342
00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:39,970
I mean, um, anyways.

343
00:21:40,030 --> 00:21:40,300
Yeah.

344
00:21:40,350 --> 00:21:40,710
Sorry.

345
00:21:41,385 --> 00:21:42,325
I went a little dark there.

346
00:21:44,865 --> 00:21:45,255
All right.

347
00:21:45,795 --> 00:21:50,285
Um, what are some of the, maybe we'll
end with something positive too.

348
00:21:50,705 --> 00:21:57,054
What are some of the, what are some
of the, um, opportunities that you see

349
00:21:57,135 --> 00:22:00,444
students do with things like portfolios?

350
00:22:01,130 --> 00:22:01,400
Right.

351
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,640
You know, moving forward from here, what
are some of those like exciting new things

352
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,930
you want to try or things that you are
seeing a glimpse of that you're like, Oh,

353
00:22:09,930 --> 00:22:13,480
that's, that's the edge of the envelope
somewhere, you know, like you don't know

354
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:14,910
where it's going, but it looks cool.

355
00:22:15,220 --> 00:22:15,730
Yeah.

356
00:22:15,730 --> 00:22:21,400
Well, what I've been seeing, uh, and
this is also, um, you know, faculty

357
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,610
led, you know, or facilitated work.

358
00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:31,640
Um, we have, um, You know, professional
acting, um, class, you know, and

359
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,390
it basically the class is preparing
them for the field, you know, just

360
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,210
getting them out there and trying
to be more hands on as possible.

361
00:22:38,790 --> 00:22:43,910
So they, they, they can get start
like a digital professional footprint,

362
00:22:44,550 --> 00:22:46,570
um, to, to get their name out there.

363
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:52,409
And, and so, and so I guess this is
more of like a, a teacher project,

364
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:58,929
but it's an example of like, you know,
faculty member trying to, okay, let's.

365
00:22:59,010 --> 00:23:03,730
You know, I, I'm working with this,
um, professor and we're looking

366
00:23:03,730 --> 00:23:07,960
at example, um, portfolios and
we call them portfolios, right?

367
00:23:08,180 --> 00:23:12,020
And the acting industry, you know,
Of what, you know, how, um, what are

368
00:23:12,020 --> 00:23:14,180
these public facing websites look like?

369
00:23:15,110 --> 00:23:19,570
And let's try to create like a
template of sorts that students

370
00:23:19,570 --> 00:23:22,220
can use, uh, on the platform.

371
00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:27,639
Um, and, um, and a lot of times
these sites are quite simple, you

372
00:23:27,639 --> 00:23:31,810
know, it's, it's just a matter of
getting, um, you know, getting those

373
00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:35,899
really good professional looking
images, you know, putting together

374
00:23:35,899 --> 00:23:37,679
what's called like an acting real.

375
00:23:38,215 --> 00:23:41,815
Um, but really kind of, you know,
looking at what the industry is doing

376
00:23:41,835 --> 00:23:44,265
and trying to prepare them for it.

377
00:23:44,305 --> 00:23:48,624
And, um, and that's been, and so
I've seen a couple projects like

378
00:23:48,624 --> 00:23:53,005
that where there's this immediate
transfer, primarily in the fine arts,

379
00:23:53,675 --> 00:23:56,325
of what they're doing with that.

380
00:23:56,695 --> 00:23:59,515
And so I guess it's more teacher
related, but yeah, and so

381
00:23:59,515 --> 00:24:00,715
that's been kind of interesting.

382
00:24:01,580 --> 00:24:06,610
Because there, there is that kind of
excitement and, uh, to, to, to have

383
00:24:06,610 --> 00:24:11,040
those classes here that are, that
really can literally getting them ready

384
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,579
to, to move on to that next career.

385
00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:15,730
Um, and so that's been
kind of interesting.

386
00:24:16,385 --> 00:24:19,794
Um, trying to think of another example.

387
00:24:19,824 --> 00:24:24,984
I see, uh, one example I think is,
you know, I've seen a couple of

388
00:24:24,984 --> 00:24:31,514
students where they're using it as
a way to, um, to deliver content.

389
00:24:31,524 --> 00:24:36,065
So creating like a podcasting
site and, and then just kind of.

390
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:39,879
Um, using that as their
base for that project.

391
00:24:39,889 --> 00:24:44,090
So it's like, you know, students just
leveraging it for different projects.

392
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:48,389
And it's kind of neat to see
students, you know, and it's something

393
00:24:48,389 --> 00:24:51,629
you're not going to have with like
Blackboard or, I mean, nothing against

394
00:24:51,629 --> 00:24:52,879
Blackboard, nothing against Canva.

395
00:24:52,909 --> 00:24:55,850
I love those, um, great platforms.

396
00:24:56,310 --> 00:25:00,439
Um, but you know, it's, it's something
that you can't do, you know, where,

397
00:25:00,469 --> 00:25:03,820
uh, and so it, it's a couple of
really great examples of students

398
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:05,910
kind of using their creativity and.

399
00:25:07,810 --> 00:25:08,770
Um, okay.

400
00:25:08,860 --> 00:25:14,129
One more example I think is, is
from the entrepreneur office that

401
00:25:14,129 --> 00:25:18,619
I collaborate with in the Center
for Gage Liberal Arts and they're,

402
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,210
um, using, um, these portfolios.

403
00:25:23,465 --> 00:25:28,125
as a way for students to, to give,
if they have a product to, to give

404
00:25:28,125 --> 00:25:32,225
their sales pitch, you know, and so
they're, so they're doing that kind

405
00:25:32,225 --> 00:25:36,834
of typical sales pitch with the video
and then pictures of, you know, kind

406
00:25:36,835 --> 00:25:42,594
of pictures or images of the, the, the
service or product they're giving and,

407
00:25:42,594 --> 00:25:47,215
uh, pitching it to real investors,
you know, and getting feedback on.

408
00:25:47,505 --> 00:25:55,350
And so, um, Yeah, it's really kind of
cool stuff and, uh, love to, I'm really

409
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:56,810
excited to see what else comes up.

410
00:25:56,810 --> 00:26:01,899
And, uh, and I think like, um, and
this has just been year one, uh, with,

411
00:26:01,940 --> 00:26:03,329
uh, the Center for Engageable Arts.

412
00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:04,950
We, we have a physical space.

413
00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:07,939
We're all in this kind
of, um, place together.

414
00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:11,650
And, uh, I'm excited to see what
else we get, you know, I'm sure a lot

415
00:26:11,650 --> 00:26:12,900
more creativity should have come out.

416
00:26:14,970 --> 00:26:20,760
Well, it is, that is just, uh, awesome
and, and also very inspiring to, to

417
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:28,895
hear, um, I, uh, I, I almost feel like
that, uh, by the way, you and I are

418
00:26:29,524 --> 00:26:35,205
from the same generation and, and, and
I think that, um, looking back, I'm,

419
00:26:35,284 --> 00:26:39,034
I'm always kind of feel like, well,
man, I wish we had stuff like this.

420
00:26:39,884 --> 00:26:40,885
Yeah, totally.

421
00:26:40,935 --> 00:26:47,055
You know, it, I, I feel like
what you said earlier really.

422
00:26:47,465 --> 00:26:52,615
Um, I really identified with,
which was what probably took me

423
00:26:52,615 --> 00:26:57,485
10, 20 years to figure out, you
know, could have been condensed

424
00:26:57,905 --> 00:27:01,144
into a couple of years, four years.

425
00:27:01,445 --> 00:27:09,115
If I was given this space to like sort
of guided space to, and time to just

426
00:27:09,115 --> 00:27:13,135
go in and think about these things,
you know, I was spending, I was working

427
00:27:13,135 --> 00:27:17,445
hard, but I, You know, probably working
on the wrong thing, to be honest.

428
00:27:17,485 --> 00:27:18,255
For sure.

429
00:27:18,465 --> 00:27:22,875
I mean, like, you know, hard
working, you know, rewarding, like.

430
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:27,010
The good grades and engagement
with these platforms or, I mean,

431
00:27:27,010 --> 00:27:31,350
not platforms, but like whatever
academics you're pursuing or business.

432
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:38,289
But yeah, I mean, um, yeah, that
the, the heart, the, you know, that

433
00:27:38,289 --> 00:27:40,130
mindfulness piece, you know what I mean?

434
00:27:41,469 --> 00:27:42,349
It's priceless.

435
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:42,850
Yeah.

436
00:27:45,130 --> 00:27:45,580
All right.

437
00:27:45,580 --> 00:27:49,280
Well, uh, Abe, it's been just
so wonderful talking to you.

438
00:27:49,330 --> 00:27:51,280
It's been a long time coming.

439
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:53,769
I've, I've wanted to do this
with you for a long time.

440
00:27:53,770 --> 00:27:55,110
I'm glad we finally did it.

441
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:55,930
Yeah, me too.

442
00:27:55,940 --> 00:27:56,700
It's been a pleasure.

443
00:27:57,219 --> 00:27:57,729
Yeah.

444
00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:58,729
We should do this.

445
00:27:58,729 --> 00:27:58,919
Yeah.

446
00:27:58,919 --> 00:27:59,719
We should have drinks.

447
00:28:00,570 --> 00:28:01,179
Yes, we should.

448
00:28:01,179 --> 00:28:02,919
We should do this over drinks.

449
00:28:02,969 --> 00:28:04,959
You know, that should have been
Digication Conversation with

450
00:28:05,489 --> 00:28:07,850
Drinks, a special edition sometimes.

451
00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:08,850
Oh, yeah, exactly.

452
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:10,319
All right.

453
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:14,289
Um, listen, thanks again for
sharing all of your insights.

454
00:28:14,659 --> 00:28:16,999
It's, uh, it's, it's fascinating.

455
00:28:17,020 --> 00:28:21,379
Um, we have that, uh, date
marked in the future, 2042.

456
00:28:21,439 --> 00:28:22,759
Wait, 2041.

457
00:28:22,959 --> 00:28:23,379
Yeah.

458
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:27,709
Well, we're going to have to take a look
at where your alumni has gone and done.

459
00:28:27,709 --> 00:28:29,720
And let's see if your
hypothesis are correct.

460
00:28:29,810 --> 00:28:30,669
Oh, exactly.

461
00:28:30,929 --> 00:28:32,289
I suspect that it is.

462
00:28:32,429 --> 00:28:32,669
Yeah.

463
00:28:32,869 --> 00:28:34,090
Let's get that data together.

464
00:28:35,770 --> 00:28:37,590
Um, but, uh, actually no.

465
00:28:38,055 --> 00:28:42,425
Um, uh, I hope that we get to do
this more often as well, and I, I've,

466
00:28:42,485 --> 00:28:45,645
I've scheduled some additional time
with other folks at Oberlin too.

467
00:28:45,665 --> 00:28:50,915
So, uh, folks who are listening, you know,
um, uh, if you like this, you know, look

468
00:28:50,915 --> 00:28:55,365
out for more brilliant people from Oberlin
in, in, in future episodes as well.

469
00:28:56,085 --> 00:28:57,615
Um, all right, Abe.

470
00:28:58,115 --> 00:28:59,645
Thank you again so much.

471
00:28:59,715 --> 00:29:02,315
And, um, let's talk again soon.

472
00:29:02,315 --> 00:29:02,695
Okay.

473
00:29:02,865 --> 00:29:03,825
Absolute pleasure.

474
00:29:03,965 --> 00:29:04,495
Take care.

475
00:29:04,605 --> 00:29:05,115
Bye everyone.

476
00:29:05,775 --> 00:29:06,055
Bye.

477
00:29:08,025 --> 00:29:11,674
This concludes our conversation
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478
00:29:11,944 --> 00:29:16,424
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479
00:29:16,935 --> 00:29:18,949
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480
00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:24,060
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482
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483
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485
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487
00:29:39,470 --> 00:29:40,430
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