Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear part two of my conversation with
Abe Reshad, Director of Language Technology and Academic Support at
Oberlin College and Conservatory.
More links and information about today's conversation can be
found on Digication's Twitter.
Facebook and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
I actually had a, um, recently a pretty amazing experience myself with this.
I was, um, traveling in, in Alaska, um, and, um, and, uh, I visited,
um, A group there and this group is just really an unbelievable group
and it's, um, it's a group, um, that is part of what's called a Fab Lab.
And so it's like the fabrication lab and it's, it's, it's like a, it's a
pretty big thing all around the world.
It's, it's well funded and they do a lot of 3D printing and whatnot.
But what's amazing about this group is that this entire lab there was
established for native Alaskan, um, It's so K 12 students can basically be there.
It's their, you know, home away from home.
Oh, wonderful.
Program.
However you, you know, like there's a lot of ways to look at it.
Look at it.
And then I'm kind of always wondering, well, so what do they do there?
You know, they, they always, you know, provide amazing.
Examples that makes me just realize how little I think, you know, and,
and, and they were showing, um, they had an object that they created that
said, this is how we can study and see how our answer students build canoes.
Oh, wow.
And these are native Alaskan canoes that, I mean, they were.
Like, you know, many, I don't know how many years of experience had been
put into this to perfect these canoes because they use it, use this stuff
to fish and they need it in order to sustain, you know, they, they,
you know, they don't fish for fun.
They're fishing because they need.
We need the, the fish for, you know, for the oil, for the, for the, for, you know,
for potentially for a different, um, uh, day to day objects, you know, that
they make with, et cetera, et cetera.
So it's, it's a pretty amazing, um, thing for them to be able to
sort of use technology in that way to, to understand and study it.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
And it's such a great age to do it where, I mean, You have an audience where they're
hungry for that kind of tactile experience and a way to, you know, work those
creative muscles and they're willing and able to do it if they have the resources.
I mean, our kids are pretty ready to go.
And I think that this is the part too, though, which is, um, where, and I just
appreciate, appreciate this part so much.
I wanted to just talk about it a little bit more, which is, look, There is
something, at least the geek inside of me, just, you know, like, as soon
as you said 3D, I already, I've been.
And the 3D printing of objects and like being able to, just the process of
that, it just sounds awesome and fun.
You know, like, the idea is to create these things out of
thin air, you know, it just.
Well, it's not thin air, I guess it's the filaments, but still, you know,
it feels like it's thin air, right?
Yep, so it's like so much about, you know, being able to use your imagination
and, you know, being able to see.
To me, that's almost like just the beginning part of, you know,
getting people in the door.
Because the real, the real learning happens when you give
them the space and the time to...
Absorb themselves into being able to touch this object and
look at it and play with it.
And, and that space and time feels like to me is really the
thing that is, if anything, missing in higher education today.
I think that all the people that are saying, you know, we're not
teaching the students enough.
I actually think that we might be trying to cramp in too much.
We're not giving them.
Space to, to just digest and reflect.
Yeah, I'm in agreement with that.
You know, I think that there's a lot of knowledge that is gained.
You have like, um, you have the activating objectives and then you have these
objectives that kind of carry out.
Um, you know, as a result of what you're doing, it's like, how do we, um, how do
we leverage these kind of experiences in such a way that we're kind of, you
know, you know, we're succeeding in meeting, uh, more than one objective at
once, you know, I mean, I guess thinking of that from a planning perspective,
but then also, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, there's a, a true need for
these types of experiences for sure.
Now let's switch gears for a minute, because you had said that you, Obviously
work with all the faculty members as well.
What are some of the, what have your experience been trying to get faculty
members to get engaged into, you know, 3D printing, into portfolios, into the
kind of, you know, you know, sort of these new creative ways of teaching and
learning, you know, how do you, how do you get them, how do you get them on board?
Yeah.
I mean, I think that that just, it starts with a conversation like this.
I think that, um, especially with, you know, technology that may seem out of
reach, you know, kind of, uh, like a low stakes conversation about, you know,
what we can do, um, collaboratively and, and that's like relationship building.
And then yeah.
You know, um, and then kind of making that a part of the conversation, you
know, so the lab is in, um, Peters Hall, which is kind of where a lot of
the language faculty and staff are.
And, and so that's like, that's been the only way to really get it done.
Um, and then there's also been, you know, having some, having some programming
too, to kind of invite people over.
But I feel like the, The big curricular, uh, projects to really
get into the classroom have been just conversations and, and, uh, having
a fun, informal conversation like this one and, and just seeing what's
possible and then experimenting, you know, that's been how it's been done
here and at a small community, at a small liberal arts college 3000, 000.
Um, you know, students, we have a lot of staff, but like, it's still a good
environment for that type, I guess, of that type of way of interacting and
seeing if we can bring people in that way.
Yeah.
So in working, in your experience working with faculty, you know, in, in adopting
these things, has there, has there been, I don't know, memorable hurdles or
surprises that, that, that comes to mind?
Yeah.
I mean, I think that, um, you know, I think that, you know, that the,
for me, For some, I think it's that, that million dollar question,
like, okay, what's this doing here?
You know, um, and, uh, and so, and answering it responded to that right away.
Um, but like, but even then, it's, um, there's, there's, uh, I mean.
Every, every person, you know, I work with people who've been teaching,
uh, for years, you know, and it's not enough to answer that question.
They have years of experience of not using that in the classroom and never
felt feeling the need of doing it.
And so, um, so, yeah, I mean, we have a really kind of interesting conversation
where I talk about how I've used it and, uh, And then we see what happens,
you know, and maybe not agree or disagree, but still kind of, I feel
like people, even though they might disagree, they're still really curious.
And they're, they're, and they can, yeah, and my colleagues can
definitely wrap their heads around the possibilities of doing it.
And so, and speaking of like space, a lot of times it's like, when we
talk about, um, you know, these kind of curricular, um, advancements
or like these new ideas, it's, we still have to fit it in, you know?
And so, uh, and so, you know, getting them on board is one thing, but then like,
you know, getting to that point where.
Um, they make space for it in their curriculum for the next class.
Uh, so, you know, a lot of times these conversations are happening
like a year in advance, right?
Uh, and so, uh, yeah.
And so like, and that's a different type of conversation.
Uh, and that's a, that's another leap, right?
It's like that first leap is like, this is, you know, this can make a difference.
Oh, I can see how that can make a difference.
And the next leap is, okay, we're going to put this in.
In our, our classroom, we're going to use it, you know, and, um, and the
second part doesn't always happen, but, you know, there's a lot of variables
and doesn't mean that they can't have, and there's a lot of like co
curricular or extracurricular experiences that we can still offer at the lab.
Um, that can give those experiences to students in another way.
What are some of the, you know, like, maybe not so much purely about them
adopting new, you know, technologies.
And it doesn't have to be that, right?
Because they might be doing something super innovative.
Exactly.
It's, it's just fine.
But what are some of the, um, what, what do you see as some of the
biggest hurdles and issues that faculty members face these days?
I mean, I know that, you know, students, for example, also face a lot of their
own issues, you know, um, uh, um, and talking to different people in this
series of, um, you know, uh, podcasts, um, and conversations, you know, people
had talked about everything from mental health to, you know, um, um, you know, the
financial burdens and to whatever else.
But, you know, as someone who's working with faculty on a day to day basis
and, um, what are some of the issues that they, that you see them facing?
Right.
I, I do feel like, um, you know, I kind of wonder if this is more a symptom
than cause, but I think like, you know, a symptom of just being kind
of overwhelmed or having a plate full is kind of that resistance to, you
know, a new platform, whatever the platform is, you know, um, even if it.
Um, even if whatever platform can help streamline things and provide a
certain experience, um, you know, you know, everyone's kind of overwhelmed.
I feel like there is not everyone, but I do think that,
you know, um, faculty, staff.
In general, and this is across the board, I think in most higher ed
institutions, like everyone's, we were wearing multiple hats and it
takes, you know, a lot of effort.
And sometimes there's just not that mental space to make room for it.
And then there's that resistance.
And, um, I can certainly empathize with it.
And, uh, And then just try to have a normal con try to have kind of a, a
conversation about things and demonstrate it and uh, maybe brainstorm, um, but, you
know, at the end of the day, you know, there, I think that resistance is, well,
you know, uh, people in their, you know, I'm trying to be careful here, but like,
you know, they're trying to carry all of this weight, you know, and, I think
that's what it is, you know what I mean?
And whatever that might be, whether it be like, you know, uh, getting
an extra chair responsibility or there's always new needs that come up.
I think any good institution is, uh, is sensitive to the needs of their
students and is making sure that, um, that the faculty and staff are
able to kind of meet those needs.
Um, but that also comes at a price.
Where, you know, yeah, it gets tricky.
It is, it is.
I mean, there isn't actually, if anything, an ever increasing
amount of needs by students.
Right.
And it's not the fault or anything like that.
It's more, to me, it feels a lot more, it's about, you know, a changing world.
Also, a change of, you know, Different sort of support
structure that's necessary.
I mean, look, people used to not be able to come out if they are, you know, in the
LGBTQ plus community and they, they may, you know, coming out in college was not.
You know, it was not a given, it certainly wasn't a, you know, it
would be a very scary thing to do.
But because of that, college didn't need to have to support people
who could have had that need.
But today, many, many students...
I don't think that they necessarily choose to come out during college, but during
these formative years, during the years when your brains are still, you know,
trying to develop, you know, you, you know, I, we know science, you know, in,
in, in, in our bio, biology, that our brains really don't get fully developed
until, you know, at least 26 or so.
Right.
Um, and so these are some of the years when, when certain
aspects of life start to.
Take charge.
Yeah.
And if we're not there to support them, who is?
Exactly.
So these are the types of things that colleges, to me, has taken
on the role of doing that.
Um, you know, and I'm really not sure.
First of all, I'm not sure if people would, I would imagine so many people
won't agree with me, you know, that that's what the colleges are doing.
Now whether they're supposed to be doing that, I don't, I also don't
know, but it certainly doesn't say that on the degree, on the certificate.
Yeah, that's an interesting point too, but there is a level of...
Um, stakes were, you know, you're trying to, uh, enable or facilitate students to
participate in this academic community to be, to have that buy it and to feel,
you know, that responsibility that, you know, they have something to offer.
I mean, what does it take to get them to that point?
You know, um, it's a lot more than what they did in the
fifties for sure, you know?
Right, right, right.
You can't just go like, here's a bunch of stuff, learn it,
test it, we're done, right?
Yeah.
That, that sounds super clean and simple.
I know, very naive, right?
It's like, oh my god.
You can, you can take away the 3D printer now.
Right.
Um, but, but it's, it's just, yeah, it's, it's, it feels like that.
It feels like that the needs of students have changed dramatically.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I mean, just, we were talking about, you know, getting them to, to get a sense
of, you know, sort of grounding and developing their own passion and all that,
that, that also sort of almost isn't.
You know, like people say, what do you, what are you going to school to study?
What are you going to school for?
And students are supposed to just know that that's, that's hard, right?
That's actually part of the, that's one of the hard questions, you know, and you
are expecting them to just know, right?
As if, as if, Oh, it was, it was printed on your driver's license.
You should know already.
You know, like you are supposed to be, you know, an engineer, now go
for it and then you'll be all set.
That's not how it works.
I mean, I think in my generation too, I mean, like, um, you know, born in
1978, went to college in the 90s.
And, you know, I, I think that, um, I guess from my context, my neck of
the woods where I grew up, you know, there was still this understanding
that like, it's like, Go to college.
You'll just, you'll be just fine.
You just pick a, pick a major.
It'll be fine.
You know what I mean?
There wasn't a lot of support to really kind of engage with, um, you know,
to, to help you engage with yourself or with the classes and way and make.
Connections, which are vital.
Um, I mean, we're basically, and that's why there's a lot of second career, right?
You know, I think that myself and even my partner as well, you know, we, you
know, we've expanded beyond our degrees, uh, you know, moved on to others,
uh, to do what we're doing right now.
Um, and, um, and not that that wouldn't happen before.
I'm not, you know, I mean, I'm not, uh, I guess I'm not, no regrets
in terms of my own journey, but.
There is that sense where, um, you're, and then also there's the economic piece
where, you know, you have to kind of, uh, roll with the punches and see the
market and see how you can retool to, to, to partake and participate in that.
Um, but yeah, I, I wonder what that would have, would have been like to, to have
that type of engagement with, um, the major with, with, with my fields of study.
Even though I did feel like I was.
Studying what I was really interested in, you know, linguistics and language
education, at least at the time.
It, it, Uh, yeah, I just kind of wonder what that would have been like, where
would that reflective process go?
Because I, you know, I do wonder, I mean, there are, you meet every now
and then students where this is a part of their practice somehow when
they grew up, they, they developed this habit of keeping a journal.
You know, and, and, and always kind of reflecting on what they're
doing and who they are and, and, and, and taking power from it.
Like it's not, it's not this thing you chuck off the list, you
know, but it's like, Oh, I'm being energized by this amazing practice.
And you know, I feel like I've gotten to that point now in my life for
sure, uh, in the thirties, you know, but it's like, but you know, um,
certainly it's, there's no reason why.
You know, uh, students can start this practice earlier, soon, you know.
Well, I think that that's a, um, there's a really interesting way for
me to think about, you know, the value of the type of education that you
provide at Oberlin or it's similar, actually many similar institutions
are trying to crack this nut, right?
Right.
Which is how do you engage students, um, beyond.
You know, and, and try to, to figure a way to dedicate themselves
to, to doing things that matter.
Um, and you get to define also what matters.
You don't get told what matters.
Um, and that's, that's a, that's actually a.
Beautiful way of helping them to see the world.
And, and I think as a result can make the world a better place.
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, like having a community of enlightened people engages others.
Sign me up.
Right.
You know.
The problem, of course, is that it takes a while, right?
Oh, yeah, exactly.
This group of students, they're not gonna...
You know, let's, let's take this cohort of like 2021, you know, it'll, I mean,
I'm sure some of them are doing great things, um, already and, uh, but, you
know, we're really not going to see the, the, the, the bulk of the, the impact, you
know, like 10, 20 years from now, right?
Like when we come back and how about we, we do it, the education
scholars in 2000 and what is it?
41.
And yeah, there you go.
Let's come back to it.
Right.
And try to figure out what the, what the then, then cohort, you know, of, uh,
Oberlin alum, what, what they are up to.
Right.
I mean, like, it's so interesting how it's like, it's this
investment that you're really.
You really have to go in on and you're not going to see the results right away.
It's very much like climate change, right?
Where you're just kind of like, okay, we have this problem.
We don't really understand.
And we're putting all this resources in and you know, we're, we're trying to turn
the dial and it's life or death for sure.
But we got to do it anyways.
I mean, um, anyways.
Yeah.
Sorry.
I went a little dark there.
All right.
Um, what are some of the, maybe we'll end with something positive too.
What are some of the, what are some of the, um, opportunities that you see
students do with things like portfolios?
Right.
You know, moving forward from here, what are some of those like exciting new things
you want to try or things that you are seeing a glimpse of that you're like, Oh,
that's, that's the edge of the envelope somewhere, you know, like you don't know
where it's going, but it looks cool.
Yeah.
Well, what I've been seeing, uh, and this is also, um, you know, faculty
led, you know, or facilitated work.
Um, we have, um, You know, professional acting, um, class, you know, and
it basically the class is preparing them for the field, you know, just
getting them out there and trying to be more hands on as possible.
So they, they, they can get start like a digital professional footprint,
um, to, to get their name out there.
And, and so, and so I guess this is more of like a, a teacher project,
but it's an example of like, you know, faculty member trying to, okay, let's.
You know, I, I'm working with this, um, professor and we're looking
at example, um, portfolios and we call them portfolios, right?
And the acting industry, you know, Of what, you know, how, um, what are
these public facing websites look like?
And let's try to create like a template of sorts that students
can use, uh, on the platform.
Um, and, um, and a lot of times these sites are quite simple, you
know, it's, it's just a matter of getting, um, you know, getting those
really good professional looking images, you know, putting together
what's called like an acting real.
Um, but really kind of, you know, looking at what the industry is doing
and trying to prepare them for it.
And, um, and that's been, and so I've seen a couple projects like
that where there's this immediate transfer, primarily in the fine arts,
of what they're doing with that.
And so I guess it's more teacher related, but yeah, and so
that's been kind of interesting.
Because there, there is that kind of excitement and, uh, to, to, to have
those classes here that are, that really can literally getting them ready
to, to move on to that next career.
Um, and so that's been kind of interesting.
Um, trying to think of another example.
I see, uh, one example I think is, you know, I've seen a couple of
students where they're using it as a way to, um, to deliver content.
So creating like a podcasting site and, and then just kind of.
Um, using that as their base for that project.
So it's like, you know, students just leveraging it for different projects.
And it's kind of neat to see students, you know, and it's something
you're not going to have with like Blackboard or, I mean, nothing against
Blackboard, nothing against Canva.
I love those, um, great platforms.
Um, but you know, it's, it's something that you can't do, you know, where,
uh, and so it, it's a couple of really great examples of students
kind of using their creativity and.
Um, okay.
One more example I think is, is from the entrepreneur office that
I collaborate with in the Center for Gage Liberal Arts and they're,
um, using, um, these portfolios.
as a way for students to, to give, if they have a product to, to give
their sales pitch, you know, and so they're, so they're doing that kind
of typical sales pitch with the video and then pictures of, you know, kind
of pictures or images of the, the, the service or product they're giving and,
uh, pitching it to real investors, you know, and getting feedback on.
And so, um, Yeah, it's really kind of cool stuff and, uh, love to, I'm really
excited to see what else comes up.
And, uh, and I think like, um, and this has just been year one, uh, with,
uh, the Center for Engageable Arts.
We, we have a physical space.
We're all in this kind of, um, place together.
And, uh, I'm excited to see what else we get, you know, I'm sure a lot
more creativity should have come out.
Well, it is, that is just, uh, awesome and, and also very inspiring to, to
hear, um, I, uh, I, I almost feel like that, uh, by the way, you and I are
from the same generation and, and, and I think that, um, looking back, I'm,
I'm always kind of feel like, well, man, I wish we had stuff like this.
Yeah, totally.
You know, it, I, I feel like what you said earlier really.
Um, I really identified with, which was what probably took me
10, 20 years to figure out, you know, could have been condensed
into a couple of years, four years.
If I was given this space to like sort of guided space to, and time to just
go in and think about these things, you know, I was spending, I was working
hard, but I, You know, probably working on the wrong thing, to be honest.
For sure.
I mean, like, you know, hard working, you know, rewarding, like.
The good grades and engagement with these platforms or, I mean,
not platforms, but like whatever academics you're pursuing or business.
But yeah, I mean, um, yeah, that the, the heart, the, you know, that
mindfulness piece, you know what I mean?
It's priceless.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, uh, Abe, it's been just so wonderful talking to you.
It's been a long time coming.
I've, I've wanted to do this with you for a long time.
I'm glad we finally did it.
Yeah, me too.
It's been a pleasure.
Yeah.
We should do this.
Yeah.
We should have drinks.
Yes, we should.
We should do this over drinks.
You know, that should have been Digication Conversation with
Drinks, a special edition sometimes.
Oh, yeah, exactly.
All right.
Um, listen, thanks again for sharing all of your insights.
It's, uh, it's, it's fascinating.
Um, we have that, uh, date marked in the future, 2042.
Wait, 2041.
Yeah.
Well, we're going to have to take a look at where your alumni has gone and done.
And let's see if your hypothesis are correct.
Oh, exactly.
I suspect that it is.
Yeah.
Let's get that data together.
Um, but, uh, actually no.
Um, uh, I hope that we get to do this more often as well, and I, I've,
I've scheduled some additional time with other folks at Oberlin too.
So, uh, folks who are listening, you know, um, uh, if you like this, you know, look
out for more brilliant people from Oberlin in, in, in future episodes as well.
Um, all right, Abe.
Thank you again so much.
And, um, let's talk again soon.
Okay.
Absolute pleasure.
Take care.
Bye everyone.
Bye.
This concludes our conversation to hear our next episode.
Be sure to subscribe to Digication Scholars Conversations on YouTube, iTunes,
Spotify, or your favorite podcast app.
The Digication Scholars Conversation series is brought to you by Digication,
a technology platform powering the most innovative e portfolio programs
in K 12 and higher education.
Our website can be found at digication.
com.
If you enjoyed today's conversation, please like,
subscribe, and share with a friend.
Thanks for tuning in.