1 00:00:00,820 --> 00:00:03,020 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 2 00:00:03,580 --> 00:00:04,830 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 3 00:00:05,330 --> 00:00:08,800 In this episode, you will hear part one of my conversation with J. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:09,029 T. 5 00:00:09,029 --> 00:00:12,020 Torres, Director of the Center for Teaching and Learning 6 00:00:12,380 --> 00:00:13,420 at Quinnipiac University. 7 00:00:14,119 --> 00:00:17,749 More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's 8 00:00:17,770 --> 00:00:19,210 Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. 9 00:00:20,019 --> 00:00:23,319 Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on 10 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:24,630 YouTube or your favorite podcast app. 11 00:00:27,010 --> 00:00:29,510 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 12 00:00:29,610 --> 00:00:31,110 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 13 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:36,190 My guest today is JT Torres, Director of the Center for Teaching and 14 00:00:36,190 --> 00:00:38,310 Learning at Quinnipiac University. 15 00:00:39,790 --> 00:00:41,479 Welcome, JT. 16 00:00:41,559 --> 00:00:42,030 Yeah, thank you. 17 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:43,099 Thank you for having me on. 18 00:00:43,099 --> 00:00:45,179 It's a pleasure to speak with you again. 19 00:00:45,899 --> 00:00:52,340 Yes, um, uh, we've had the fortune of working with Quinnipiac University Um, 20 00:00:52,350 --> 00:00:58,100 for a number of years and you've been an instrumental part of, um, um, using, 21 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,850 um, you know, ePortfolios at Quinnipiac. 22 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,750 Um, I'm sure we'll talk a lot more about that later when appropriate, but first 23 00:01:05,780 --> 00:01:07,469 I really want to learn more about you. 24 00:01:07,919 --> 00:01:14,130 Um, I did, uh, I, I know that you have, um, been, uh, instrumental 25 00:01:14,140 --> 00:01:17,930 in many things, not, not just ePortfolio at the university. 26 00:01:17,930 --> 00:01:19,990 You're the director for teaching and learning. 27 00:01:20,260 --> 00:01:26,229 Why don't you tell us a little bit about, um, maybe Quinnipiac University and What 28 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,530 a Center for Teaching and Learning means for those who don't know what that is. 29 00:01:31,149 --> 00:01:32,190 Yeah, for sure, for sure. 30 00:01:32,190 --> 00:01:37,079 So, I've learned that centers for teaching and learning are very different based 31 00:01:37,079 --> 00:01:38,710 on the institution where they're based. 32 00:01:38,730 --> 00:01:44,029 Uh, so, Quinnipiac, um, prides itself on being a professional private institution. 33 00:01:44,330 --> 00:01:45,970 That word professional carries a lot of weight. 34 00:01:45,990 --> 00:01:50,040 It means that we are really dedicated to career readiness and we're also 35 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:55,029 dedicated to thinking about what it means to prepare students to not only join. 36 00:01:55,710 --> 00:02:00,429 Uh, the economic force or the job market, um, but to also change it, right? 37 00:02:00,429 --> 00:02:04,170 To have that agency to change it, um, hopefully with the social justice 38 00:02:04,179 --> 00:02:06,700 element in terms of, you know, we're, we're changing our economy. 39 00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:12,210 So it works for everybody, not just those with wealth, um, but also how do I make 40 00:02:12,210 --> 00:02:14,010 sure that I can put food on the table? 41 00:02:14,010 --> 00:02:15,730 So I can do that work of change, right? 42 00:02:15,730 --> 00:02:17,329 So it's not, job placement... 43 00:02:17,519 --> 00:02:21,170 It's also professionalization that requires a certain amount 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,910 of critical thinking skills, creative thinking skills, right? 45 00:02:25,300 --> 00:02:27,600 Again, we're not just matching people to a workforce. 46 00:02:27,810 --> 00:02:30,980 We also want them to take charge and lead that workforce based on 47 00:02:31,019 --> 00:02:32,300 ethical decisions that they make. 48 00:02:32,819 --> 00:02:35,970 That funnels down into our Center for Teaching and Learning in these 49 00:02:35,970 --> 00:02:39,890 pretty ambitious ways and these pretty interesting ways, right? 50 00:02:39,890 --> 00:02:43,829 So here at Quinnipiac, a lot of the work that we do is backward 51 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,080 design is reverse engineered from. 52 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,170 The current market, you know, what are those current jobs? 53 00:02:49,510 --> 00:02:51,350 Um, what are the skills needed for those jobs? 54 00:02:51,350 --> 00:02:56,929 For instance, um, we know through surveys like Glassdoor that curiosity and creative 55 00:02:56,930 --> 00:02:59,859 thinking, a curious mindset and creative thinking are really, really important. 56 00:03:00,059 --> 00:03:01,780 People are saying they want, right. 57 00:03:01,830 --> 00:03:04,879 Our tomorrow's leaders need to be able to look at problems in new 58 00:03:04,889 --> 00:03:06,679 ways, and they need to be curious. 59 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,410 They need to not just follow standard protocols, especially if we know 60 00:03:10,410 --> 00:03:13,359 those protocols don't work for everybody, but how do we change those? 61 00:03:13,630 --> 00:03:17,970 So when If we're reverse engineering and we're designing backwards from 62 00:03:17,970 --> 00:03:22,580 that, the center here, it really works closely with courses to 63 00:03:22,580 --> 00:03:24,290 help align classroom assignments. 64 00:03:24,690 --> 00:03:27,400 Um, I'm really big on authentic assessment, where like, don't 65 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,709 just assess knowledge for the sake of assessing knowledge. 66 00:03:29,940 --> 00:03:33,479 Assess knowledge in the same way that students will be assessed when they are 67 00:03:33,490 --> 00:03:37,250 in their particular fields of study or their disciplines or their professions. 68 00:03:37,590 --> 00:03:37,790 Right. 69 00:03:37,790 --> 00:03:41,270 So how can projects become aligned with the real world? 70 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,430 Um, how can we break down that binary between the classroom is one world and 71 00:03:45,430 --> 00:03:46,630 then the real world is another world. 72 00:03:46,630 --> 00:03:48,080 How can the classroom become a real world? 73 00:03:48,350 --> 00:03:51,370 So it's a lot of, um, a makerspace approach, right? 74 00:03:51,370 --> 00:03:54,490 So the teach, the teaching and learning center here works with faculty chairs 75 00:03:54,490 --> 00:03:58,000 and program program directors to reflect on what those goals are. 76 00:03:58,020 --> 00:03:58,670 What are we doing? 77 00:03:58,670 --> 00:03:59,280 What we're doing. 78 00:03:59,490 --> 00:04:01,610 And then how do we start making those changes? 79 00:04:01,885 --> 00:04:05,655 So it becomes less of a classroom space and more of a space that 80 00:04:05,655 --> 00:04:07,364 transitions us into that real world. 81 00:04:07,364 --> 00:04:10,355 So a lot of case studies, lots of problem solving, there's particular 82 00:04:10,355 --> 00:04:14,114 pedagogical approaches that align with a university like Quinnipiac that calls 83 00:04:14,114 --> 00:04:15,575 itself a professional institution. 84 00:04:15,894 --> 00:04:20,655 Um, and so I, I have to adapt and make sure that, you know, my 85 00:04:20,655 --> 00:04:24,125 training in educational psychology provides the relevant resources and 86 00:04:24,125 --> 00:04:25,865 approaches for the context here. 87 00:04:27,315 --> 00:04:27,935 That's lovely. 88 00:04:27,955 --> 00:04:31,855 And I, I think that that's, I'm sure we'll, we'll, we'll have a chance 89 00:04:31,855 --> 00:04:37,535 to talk about, you know, today's sort of people's percept, general 90 00:04:37,535 --> 00:04:39,125 perception of higher education. 91 00:04:39,265 --> 00:04:39,705 ...oh yeah. 92 00:04:40,065 --> 00:04:46,110 You know, um, And there are, I mean, statistically, we have seen a drop 93 00:04:46,150 --> 00:04:52,710 in enrollment, especially in, um, in, uh, community colleges, um, and some 94 00:04:52,710 --> 00:04:57,310 of the numbers are stark, you know, it does not, it's, it's not, it's 95 00:04:57,310 --> 00:05:02,140 not just a slight decrease in some of it, maybe have kickstarts by COVID or 96 00:05:02,140 --> 00:05:04,150 maybe enhanced by COVID that dropped. 97 00:05:04,795 --> 00:05:10,965 Um, but it's, it's a little bit scary, the general perception that, that exists in, 98 00:05:10,985 --> 00:05:13,175 in, in, you know, for higher education. 99 00:05:13,625 --> 00:05:20,655 I, I sort of, I want to, I want to talk a little bit about, I, I, I, I, by the 100 00:05:20,655 --> 00:05:24,605 way, been following a lot of your work throughout, you know, the years and 101 00:05:24,605 --> 00:05:28,105 I've, I've read some articles, I've been to many of your presentations, so I'm a 102 00:05:28,105 --> 00:05:37,105 little fanboy, fanboying um, you know, and, um, I, I remember that, um, you have, 103 00:05:38,095 --> 00:05:45,340 um, done some work in doing inclusive, um, sort of designing, um, Um, designing 104 00:05:45,340 --> 00:05:50,169 your classroom to be inclusive, designing assignments, designing your whole course, 105 00:05:50,169 --> 00:05:52,460 the nature of the course to be inclusive. 106 00:05:53,169 --> 00:05:55,159 Um, what does that mean? 107 00:05:55,169 --> 00:06:00,090 And, you know, like you talked about this idea of balancing, Hey, you know, 108 00:06:00,090 --> 00:06:02,870 there's workforce development and, you know, trying to make sure that 109 00:06:02,870 --> 00:06:07,369 people can, can, can, can benefit financially and, you know, being 110 00:06:07,369 --> 00:06:11,689 able to support themselves, but also there's this other part, which is. 111 00:06:12,205 --> 00:06:17,505 Making society better, making changes, making it the way, you know, equipping 112 00:06:17,505 --> 00:06:20,155 them with the ability to do all of that. 113 00:06:20,625 --> 00:06:24,875 And I have this feeling that this inclusive classroom was something that 114 00:06:24,885 --> 00:06:26,694 I've always been so interested in. 115 00:06:27,094 --> 00:06:27,955 What does that mean? 116 00:06:29,005 --> 00:06:30,575 And what can you talk a little bit about that? 117 00:06:30,835 --> 00:06:31,705 Yeah, absolutely. 118 00:06:31,715 --> 00:06:32,015 Thank you. 119 00:06:32,015 --> 00:06:33,614 That's, that's one of my favorite topics. 120 00:06:33,635 --> 00:06:36,835 And, um, right now we're doing our semester kickstart at Quinnipiac. 121 00:06:36,835 --> 00:06:40,494 So, um, about three presentations this week on that topic. 122 00:06:40,814 --> 00:06:46,704 Um, so I'll start at what everyone thinks is the starting point, um, of what does 123 00:06:46,705 --> 00:06:50,075 it mean to have classrooms that are diverse, equitable and inclusive, right? 124 00:06:50,075 --> 00:06:50,364 We get. 125 00:06:50,445 --> 00:06:53,605 Stuck on that acronym of DEI because of how it's been taken up 126 00:06:53,605 --> 00:06:57,585 in popular press, um, covered in popular media where we think that 127 00:06:57,585 --> 00:06:59,505 means critical race theory, right? 128 00:06:59,505 --> 00:07:03,764 We think that like every child from kindergarten to college is being taught 129 00:07:04,354 --> 00:07:08,025 this legal theory of critical race theory, or we think it means that we need to 130 00:07:08,025 --> 00:07:12,574 know the right terminology and we need to almost compete in the diversity Olympics 131 00:07:13,004 --> 00:07:17,534 to show like how inclusive we are, that we have all the right language, right? 132 00:07:18,485 --> 00:07:21,044 And I'm sharing this as a starting point because I think, you know, 133 00:07:21,335 --> 00:07:25,085 We look at the climate that we're in and it's so politically charged. 134 00:07:25,085 --> 00:07:28,665 You know, you're talking about, um, the drop off in college enrollment. 135 00:07:28,675 --> 00:07:30,225 A lot of that is politically motivated. 136 00:07:30,235 --> 00:07:34,415 Like you can look, um, I'm talking about, um, some data that's, that I 137 00:07:34,415 --> 00:07:37,784 read from the book, "What We Value", published by Lynn Pasquerella, 138 00:07:37,805 --> 00:07:41,205 president of AAC&U (American Association of Colleges and Universities.). 139 00:07:41,475 --> 00:07:47,155 And historically, um, from around the sixties, we've seen this drop 140 00:07:47,155 --> 00:07:52,595 off in trust, largely from people who register as Republican voters, right? 141 00:07:53,055 --> 00:07:55,005 But that's not the case so much anymore. 142 00:07:55,005 --> 00:07:59,205 Now we're starting to see trust in public colleges and universities. 143 00:07:59,564 --> 00:08:02,665 Almost, it's not completely level, but almost level out where even 144 00:08:02,665 --> 00:08:05,635 people who are registered as Democratic, who historically, again, 145 00:08:05,885 --> 00:08:08,115 um, in recent history, have been supportive of higher education. 146 00:08:08,465 --> 00:08:12,104 There are issues as well around trust and it's coming around DEI, right? 147 00:08:12,125 --> 00:08:14,465 Like, are we as inclusive as we say we are? 148 00:08:14,734 --> 00:08:17,215 Um, and so challenges are everywhere. 149 00:08:17,495 --> 00:08:19,874 And I think a lot of it is focusing on competence. 150 00:08:19,924 --> 00:08:21,884 Like, are we competent in DEI? 151 00:08:22,144 --> 00:08:24,905 And then we have, you know, the workforce is also responding in 152 00:08:24,905 --> 00:08:26,155 these really interesting ways. 153 00:08:26,455 --> 00:08:30,435 Um, when it comes to, you know, ESG or DEI initiatives in certain 154 00:08:30,435 --> 00:08:33,694 corporations, depending on where you are in the company or in the country. 155 00:08:34,064 --> 00:08:38,394 So there's also a skillset that's expected by particular employers in 156 00:08:38,394 --> 00:08:40,975 terms of being able to be inclusive. 157 00:08:41,224 --> 00:08:43,804 And so it's a lot of noise and that's really what I'm just trying to say. 158 00:08:43,804 --> 00:08:45,165 There's a lot of noise around it. 159 00:08:45,175 --> 00:08:48,954 And for me, when I work with educators, I see. 160 00:08:49,060 --> 00:08:51,980 Inclusivity as being a very human thing. 161 00:08:52,210 --> 00:08:56,290 For me, it just comes down to can a student see themself in this class? 162 00:08:56,850 --> 00:09:00,540 And there's so many ways that they can or cannot see themselves in that class. 163 00:09:00,950 --> 00:09:05,479 If I'm, um, a student and I sit down in the class and I look day one, I'm 164 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,640 looking at the syllabus, I'm looking at the reading list and I notice No, no 165 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,590 scientists, um, are of a Latino heritage. 166 00:09:12,790 --> 00:09:14,900 No scientists share my backstory. 167 00:09:15,430 --> 00:09:17,850 I might be a little bit more disengaged, right? 168 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,760 Um, I might not be as invested or maybe I still am for other reasons, but now 169 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,480 those are largely external because I don't see myself in this space. 170 00:09:24,910 --> 00:09:27,829 Um, and so for me, that's all we're talking about when we meet 171 00:09:28,060 --> 00:09:30,630 in the inclusive classroom, are we giving opportunities for everybody 172 00:09:30,670 --> 00:09:32,240 to see themselves in this room? 173 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,010 So I think about the word belonging. 174 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:35,319 I think that carries a lot of weight. 175 00:09:35,660 --> 00:09:38,860 In terms of how we design an inclusive class, are we creating communities 176 00:09:38,860 --> 00:09:40,230 where people feel connected? 177 00:09:40,530 --> 00:09:43,760 Are we creating communities where my goals and my interests are aligned 178 00:09:43,780 --> 00:09:45,080 with the outcomes of this course? 179 00:09:45,469 --> 00:09:49,279 Um, but the content makes sense to me and has personal relevance, right? 180 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:50,929 Like I'm just talking about human connection. 181 00:09:50,929 --> 00:09:52,010 I'm talking about empathy. 182 00:09:52,239 --> 00:09:53,299 I'm talking about belonging. 183 00:09:53,310 --> 00:09:56,850 I'm talking about being excited to come to class because I not only feel safe 184 00:09:56,850 --> 00:10:01,170 there, but also encouraged to be my best self, regardless of my race, my 185 00:10:01,170 --> 00:10:03,499 gender, my identity, my ability, right? 186 00:10:03,540 --> 00:10:06,895 I have that encouragement, and I feel that I can do that here. 187 00:10:08,385 --> 00:10:09,814 Man, I want to be your student. 188 00:10:10,905 --> 00:10:16,395 It's the exactly the type of things that it feels so much more so just common 189 00:10:16,395 --> 00:10:20,594 sense, you know, like, do you feel engaged as someone that you can see yourself? 190 00:10:21,675 --> 00:10:25,844 You know, you have that very natural sort of, um, do you feel that warm and 191 00:10:25,844 --> 00:10:29,944 fuzzy feeling about, hey, when I'm here, you know, do I, do I feel that way? 192 00:10:30,114 --> 00:10:30,624 Exactly. 193 00:10:31,204 --> 00:10:33,185 I feel like, oh man, I'm getting shunned. 194 00:10:33,945 --> 00:10:37,545 Even if it's no one said anything to you in your face about it. 195 00:10:37,545 --> 00:10:38,225 Exactly. 196 00:10:38,245 --> 00:10:41,145 You know, I, and again, my background's in educational psychology. 197 00:10:41,145 --> 00:10:46,085 So I see inclusive classrooms as not just being a trendy moment or not 198 00:10:46,134 --> 00:10:48,484 just being warm and fuzzy, although I know what you mean and that's 199 00:10:48,485 --> 00:10:51,544 really important, but there's also cognitive effects to it, right? 200 00:10:51,544 --> 00:10:57,395 So if I'm in a class and Somehow, in some way, my defensiveness is triggered. 201 00:10:57,435 --> 00:11:00,815 Maybe, again, like, maybe there was a microaggression, an unintentional 202 00:11:00,815 --> 00:11:04,854 microaggression, or maybe the faculty member can't pronounce my name or 203 00:11:04,855 --> 00:11:08,414 won't pronounce my name, and any kind of defensiveness that's triggered, I 204 00:11:08,415 --> 00:11:12,245 have cortisol production, my amygdala is activated, and it's, I'm worried 205 00:11:12,245 --> 00:11:16,005 more about self preservation than I am about what's being done in class. 206 00:11:16,325 --> 00:11:18,855 Now, if I get those warm and fuzzy feelings as you talked about, right, I 207 00:11:18,855 --> 00:11:22,694 get, If the instructor made an intentional choice to help me feel welcome, to 208 00:11:22,694 --> 00:11:27,665 help me feel connected, to encourage me explicitly that I belong here and I can 209 00:11:27,665 --> 00:11:31,824 do what this class is designed for me to do, that defensiveness comes down. 210 00:11:32,134 --> 00:11:33,154 I feel more relaxed. 211 00:11:33,244 --> 00:11:38,354 I am literally, I have opened up more cognitive resources to be available to 212 00:11:38,354 --> 00:11:39,935 do the hard work of learning, right? 213 00:11:40,375 --> 00:11:42,615 It's not just like a trendy movement. 214 00:11:42,615 --> 00:11:44,115 It's not just social justice. 215 00:11:44,305 --> 00:11:45,775 It's literally how our brains work. 216 00:11:46,815 --> 00:11:50,495 And I think that's, I think I've heard you and others talk about this as being 217 00:11:50,495 --> 00:11:52,215 sort of like growth mindset by design. 218 00:11:52,315 --> 00:11:53,044 Yeah, exactly. 219 00:11:53,044 --> 00:11:53,324 Yeah. 220 00:11:53,765 --> 00:11:58,055 If you can get into that mindset, how could you be receptive of the 221 00:11:58,055 --> 00:12:00,295 kind of things that you're going to try to try to learn and try 222 00:12:00,295 --> 00:12:01,985 to experience in the classroom? 223 00:12:02,065 --> 00:12:02,905 Absolutely. 224 00:12:02,965 --> 00:12:03,385 Yeah. 225 00:12:04,025 --> 00:12:12,789 Um, so I want to learn a little bit more about how JT Torres come to be. 226 00:12:12,930 --> 00:12:17,099 Because you have these, I mean, look, you are, you obviously, 227 00:12:17,099 --> 00:12:20,439 you have your PhD in education psychology and, you know, a lot of. 228 00:12:20,885 --> 00:12:26,745 There's a lot of knowledge, you know, from sort of the institutions, but you 229 00:12:26,745 --> 00:12:33,875 also are, if I believe I'm right, you are, you are, you are, um, uh, from Cuba 230 00:12:33,935 --> 00:12:35,674 originally or your family's from Cuba? 231 00:12:35,675 --> 00:12:35,984 Is that right? 232 00:12:35,985 --> 00:12:36,464 My family, yeah. 233 00:12:36,464 --> 00:12:37,605 I was born in Miami, Florida. 234 00:12:37,685 --> 00:12:37,925 Yeah. 235 00:12:38,265 --> 00:12:39,025 My family's from Cuba. 236 00:12:39,145 --> 00:12:39,465 What? 237 00:12:39,465 --> 00:12:44,385 Tell us a little bit about what you were like growing up and how will that 238 00:12:44,415 --> 00:12:50,034 sort of shape you to, to be, you know, um, to, to, to who you are today. 239 00:12:50,285 --> 00:12:54,145 Yeah, I think, um, I'm not sure how controversial you want this podcast to be. 240 00:12:54,385 --> 00:13:02,525 Um, but so, um, yeah, so I, I've had a rocky road with education. 241 00:13:02,824 --> 00:13:06,615 Um, you know, part of it is because of my, my family's background, but. 242 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:07,860 I actually don't know. 243 00:13:07,860 --> 00:13:10,060 I don't, I'm not going to even attempt to try to psychoanalyze 244 00:13:10,060 --> 00:13:13,910 myself, but I did have a rocky road with education where I largely did 245 00:13:13,910 --> 00:13:16,040 not see myself in it as a child. 246 00:13:16,319 --> 00:13:22,239 Um, I like, not only was I growing up in Miami, Florida, which is a highly, highly 247 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:27,610 diverse, uh, city, a city that grew in diversity before it was able to grow in 248 00:13:27,610 --> 00:13:29,580 the infrastructure to support diversity. 249 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:30,120 Right. 250 00:13:30,140 --> 00:13:34,540 Um, so not only did I grow up in that environment, but I also have ADHD. 251 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,510 So sitting down in classrooms for a very long time as a child 252 00:13:38,510 --> 00:13:40,810 was very, very difficult for me. 253 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,890 Um, so there were lots of calls home to my, to my parents. 254 00:13:45,180 --> 00:13:49,380 Um, you know, there, I had to go to speech therapy because not only did my 255 00:13:49,380 --> 00:13:53,970 brain work in different ways than my mouth could, but I was also juggling, 256 00:13:54,169 --> 00:13:57,360 right, the broken Spanish at home with the broken English I was trying 257 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,410 to learn and combining them together. 258 00:13:59,685 --> 00:14:01,485 Yes, I went to speech therapy. 259 00:14:01,745 --> 00:14:07,005 Um, I had all sorts of behavioral issues and episodes in high school 260 00:14:07,005 --> 00:14:10,634 that led to problematic, um, outcomes. 261 00:14:10,635 --> 00:14:12,335 Like, for example, I'll tell this one story. 262 00:14:12,685 --> 00:14:17,184 I, I hit this band in high school where I was frequently skipping school. 263 00:14:17,435 --> 00:14:19,115 Um, I, I didn't see myself there. 264 00:14:19,115 --> 00:14:21,235 So if I didn't see myself there, then why would I want to go there? 265 00:14:21,375 --> 00:14:24,735 I felt more connected with my friends when we would skip school and go 266 00:14:24,735 --> 00:14:27,774 home and play video games, because playing video games, I felt capable. 267 00:14:27,804 --> 00:14:29,085 I was in control of the world. 268 00:14:29,085 --> 00:14:31,885 Even if it was a virtual world, I had the agency to do 269 00:14:31,895 --> 00:14:33,074 whatever it is I wanted to do. 270 00:14:33,375 --> 00:14:36,995 And so that's what I would do for a little bit until my mom. 271 00:14:37,324 --> 00:14:40,985 Got a job in the attendance office at the, at the high school. 272 00:14:42,225 --> 00:14:42,444 Wow. 273 00:14:42,555 --> 00:14:44,545 She went, she, she really went for it. 274 00:14:44,805 --> 00:14:45,074 Yeah. 275 00:14:45,074 --> 00:14:48,654 I mean, do you know, do you know how much trouble you you're in when your mom has to 276 00:14:48,655 --> 00:14:53,224 do a career change just to like, just to like, make sure you're, you're in school. 277 00:14:53,515 --> 00:14:57,388 Um, and then, and even then, you know, like we would drive to school 278 00:14:57,388 --> 00:15:01,344 and I, I went to this large urban high school in central Florida 279 00:15:01,615 --> 00:15:03,125 that looked a lot like a prison. 280 00:15:03,145 --> 00:15:03,944 I mean, there were, there were. 281 00:15:03,965 --> 00:15:05,265 Barbed wire fences around it. 282 00:15:05,265 --> 00:15:06,755 There was a police guard you had to go into. 283 00:15:06,755 --> 00:15:08,185 It was not a welcoming environment. 284 00:15:08,505 --> 00:15:11,965 And so my mom would drive me into school, park in the parking lot. 285 00:15:12,165 --> 00:15:14,735 She would go into the attendance office to start her day. 286 00:15:15,014 --> 00:15:17,255 And then I would just walk to my friend's car. 287 00:15:17,275 --> 00:15:20,164 We would leave school and then come back at three o'clock so I can meet 288 00:15:20,164 --> 00:15:23,444 her in front of the attendance office to get in the car and despite all 289 00:15:23,445 --> 00:15:26,215 that scheming, you would get in the car and she would still ask me, 290 00:15:26,215 --> 00:15:27,405 she was like, how was school today? 291 00:15:27,415 --> 00:15:29,745 And, you know, I would, I would try to give her, you know, the normal. 292 00:15:30,050 --> 00:15:32,510 You know, BS answers that we would always give, like, it was fine. 293 00:15:32,930 --> 00:15:36,650 But then, like, after some follow up questions, she would just call me out and 294 00:15:36,650 --> 00:15:38,930 say, You do realize I work in attendance. 295 00:15:38,940 --> 00:15:40,680 I know you were not at school today. 296 00:15:40,770 --> 00:15:42,140 What is wrong with you? 297 00:15:42,530 --> 00:15:46,049 Um, you know, and I, I, I didn't have the language to explain to her, 298 00:15:46,049 --> 00:15:49,799 like, why I felt that I had more agency at my friend's house playing 299 00:15:49,869 --> 00:15:51,340 video games than being at school. 300 00:15:51,650 --> 00:15:54,570 Um, And, and so like these, these challenges happen. 301 00:15:54,570 --> 00:15:55,870 I went to a community college. 302 00:15:56,130 --> 00:16:00,050 Um, I, first semester, I did pretty well, but then I, I 303 00:16:00,050 --> 00:16:01,770 stopped, um, attending college. 304 00:16:01,820 --> 00:16:05,549 I, I, I started working at a restaurant on Disney property. 305 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,549 Um, this is in Orlando, Florida, and started making some good cash 306 00:16:09,599 --> 00:16:13,980 working at a, at this restaurant, and in my very short sighted life 307 00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:17,785 at that moment, I, I could just do cash and then not do college. 308 00:16:18,244 --> 00:16:21,655 And so I did that for a while until I had this random professor. 309 00:16:21,655 --> 00:16:25,174 I say it's random because it was in an elective that I 310 00:16:25,174 --> 00:16:26,214 never really saw myself in. 311 00:16:26,214 --> 00:16:28,564 It was a computer science class and I never really had 312 00:16:28,785 --> 00:16:30,374 aspirations to do computer science. 313 00:16:30,374 --> 00:16:33,034 I was in the class cause I loved video games and someone told me that 314 00:16:33,035 --> 00:16:34,254 I should learn a computer science. 315 00:16:34,604 --> 00:16:35,165 And so. 316 00:16:35,634 --> 00:16:39,454 I was in this class not doing well in community college and the faculty 317 00:16:39,454 --> 00:16:43,545 member emailed me and said, um, asked me why I don't come to class. 318 00:16:43,975 --> 00:16:48,025 And so I wrote, I was honest and I wrote back and told him what I do and told him 319 00:16:48,025 --> 00:16:49,924 about the video game obsession that I had. 320 00:16:50,175 --> 00:16:53,874 And then he said, can you come to class next week and then stay after class? 321 00:16:53,875 --> 00:16:54,935 I promise you're not in trouble. 322 00:16:54,944 --> 00:16:55,725 I just want to introduce you to som... 323 00:16:55,725 --> 00:16:55,995 to somebody. 324 00:16:56,015 --> 00:17:01,465 Um, so I did, and he introduced me to a group of students who were designing their 325 00:17:01,465 --> 00:17:03,335 own games, programming their own games. 326 00:17:03,345 --> 00:17:04,744 He's like, they're forming a club. 327 00:17:04,944 --> 00:17:06,135 Why don't you just hang out with them? 328 00:17:06,464 --> 00:17:08,165 And that changed everything. 329 00:17:08,175 --> 00:17:13,404 Like, once I realized that my interest could connect with what I was learning, 330 00:17:13,435 --> 00:17:16,095 even though I didn't become a computer scientist, I never took another computer 331 00:17:16,095 --> 00:17:20,245 science class again, but that faculty member, through that connection, um, 332 00:17:20,255 --> 00:17:21,625 helped me get into creative writing. 333 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,780 And that's what I majored in as an undergrad, creative writing. 334 00:17:24,810 --> 00:17:29,640 And then I became fascinated with the story that I'm telling, um, in 335 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,020 the video games that we were, you know, with my group of friends. 336 00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:33,949 We're writing video games, we're designing them. 337 00:17:34,340 --> 00:17:37,739 A lot of them, like 90 percent of them, never came to fruition, but just 338 00:17:37,739 --> 00:17:40,659 the thinking through what this game would be and what these stories are. 339 00:17:40,919 --> 00:17:45,479 I became very fascinated with, um, the cognitive effects of storytelling, um, 340 00:17:45,479 --> 00:17:49,260 how that shapes our identities, how I'm a totally different person in two years 341 00:17:49,479 --> 00:17:51,199 because of my new love of storytelling. 342 00:17:51,509 --> 00:17:55,399 Um, and then that took me from the MFA inquiry to writing to Ed Sykes. 343 00:17:55,399 --> 00:17:57,059 It was just, it was a blur. 344 00:17:57,059 --> 00:17:58,029 It was like a montage. 345 00:17:58,029 --> 00:18:02,009 Like imagine you're watching a movie, just a montage of clips to some pop music 346 00:18:02,249 --> 00:18:06,389 from that moment of constantly getting in trouble, constantly trying my best 347 00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:10,649 to get out of the education system, to staying in it for the rest of my life 348 00:18:10,659 --> 00:18:12,299 because I realized that's where I belong. 349 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,229 Because of this one random encounter where someone said, that thing you're 350 00:18:15,229 --> 00:18:16,770 interested in, it matters here. 351 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,800 That's, that's just amazing. 352 00:18:19,810 --> 00:18:20,419 That's awesome. 353 00:18:20,590 --> 00:18:21,350 What was. 354 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:28,760 What was the, your favorite video game or games when you were to, you know, doing, 355 00:18:28,830 --> 00:18:30,140 playing that with your friends house? 356 00:18:30,380 --> 00:18:31,090 Oh, easy, easy. 357 00:18:31,090 --> 00:18:31,529 Oh, yeah. 358 00:18:31,529 --> 00:18:33,230 Legend of Zelda, for sure. 359 00:18:33,260 --> 00:18:33,930 Legend of Zelda. 360 00:18:33,930 --> 00:18:38,199 And the, and the reason, right, um, there's so, if you have any 361 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,070 experience with Legend of Zelda, it's a lot of implied storytelling. 362 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,420 There's no voice acting in the game. 363 00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:43,430 It's a lot of reading. 364 00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:47,250 Um, there are kind of episodic events through this epic narrative. 365 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:52,030 That you piece together in your own mind, um, I think this is true. 366 00:18:52,050 --> 00:18:56,280 I think the main character of Zelda, like Zelda's the princess that you ultimately 367 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,500 save, the game's named after her, but the character you control is named Link. 368 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,349 The reason, I think, the reason his name is Link is because that protagonist was 369 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,920 ultimately designed for the player to project themself into that protagonist. 370 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,480 So no matter, you know, Link is kind of androgynous, um, he's kind of, you know, 371 00:19:14,139 --> 00:19:17,800 Ambivalent and who this character is, and that's by design because the whole 372 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,040 idea I think from Nintendo was that you would see yourself in this character 373 00:19:22,060 --> 00:19:26,830 and that's, that fascination for me, um, just completely captured all my interest. 374 00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:34,310 And, and I could imagine that many of you are, I mean, I'm not, I don't know 375 00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:36,250 what the, what the competition is. 376 00:19:36,260 --> 00:19:41,559 So, so, so if you weren't doing that, which you just described 377 00:19:41,559 --> 00:19:43,210 with so much passion, right? 378 00:19:43,210 --> 00:19:44,180 I think anyone can. 379 00:19:44,575 --> 00:19:47,575 Here, and if you are watching the video, you can like literally see him light 380 00:19:47,575 --> 00:19:49,965 up, like talking about Legend of Zelda. 381 00:19:50,355 --> 00:19:53,385 Um, but, so what's the competition on the other end? 382 00:19:53,495 --> 00:19:55,715 In the classroom, what would you be doing instead? 383 00:19:56,244 --> 00:19:57,784 Instead of playing Legend of Zelda? 384 00:19:57,925 --> 00:19:58,205 Yeah. 385 00:19:58,335 --> 00:20:02,134 Yeah, um, yeah, this might be the good transition into ePortfolios, but like, 386 00:20:02,134 --> 00:20:04,015 doing meaningless, uh, Assessments, right? 387 00:20:04,015 --> 00:20:06,675 Like doing meaningless work, like work that I don't see the 388 00:20:06,675 --> 00:20:09,485 relevance in my, in my life, right? 389 00:20:09,485 --> 00:20:11,115 Um, at that time, at that time, right? 390 00:20:11,115 --> 00:20:13,535 And, um, I learned how to make those connections later. 391 00:20:13,535 --> 00:20:17,294 And then I also was fortunate enough to have faculty members who explicitly 392 00:20:17,294 --> 00:20:18,475 made those connections for me. 393 00:20:18,674 --> 00:20:21,265 Like this, um, computer science professor I had years ago. 394 00:20:21,525 --> 00:20:25,305 But yeah, the alternative to a video game, to someone like Link, 395 00:20:25,425 --> 00:20:29,565 who lets me project myself into the environment is, do busy work. 396 00:20:29,889 --> 00:20:34,379 Um, you know, how often have we been told in school, you need to know this 397 00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:36,560 in case you need to know it, right? 398 00:20:36,610 --> 00:20:37,830 Like it's no math. 399 00:20:38,049 --> 00:20:41,619 Um, you don't need to like algebra, for instance, it's like, just in 400 00:20:41,620 --> 00:20:42,979 case you might need to know algebra. 401 00:20:42,979 --> 00:20:44,300 Like I've never used algebra. 402 00:20:44,339 --> 00:20:45,529 Like maybe I have, I don't know. 403 00:20:45,530 --> 00:20:46,699 Like I didn't retain enough. 404 00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:49,929 My background's in English language arts, so sorry for the, the math 405 00:20:50,679 --> 00:20:51,879 shade that I just threw there. 406 00:20:52,090 --> 00:20:52,979 But, um, right. 407 00:20:52,979 --> 00:20:54,669 It's, it's, if we don't. 408 00:20:54,929 --> 00:20:57,060 Use it if you don't see that relevance, right? 409 00:20:57,070 --> 00:20:58,820 Then we don't practice it. 410 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,279 We don't incorporate it into our memory. 411 00:21:00,310 --> 00:21:03,449 And yes, so much of education has always been just in case. 412 00:21:03,889 --> 00:21:10,270 So this approach, like video games, have directly impacted how I approach education 413 00:21:10,270 --> 00:21:13,290 and how I approach the Center for Teaching and Learning, where I want everything to 414 00:21:13,290 --> 00:21:15,810 be just in time, not just in case, right? 415 00:21:15,810 --> 00:21:19,219 I want people to be so immersed in the moment that when they run up against 416 00:21:19,219 --> 00:21:23,105 the challenge and they don't know how to respond to that challenge, The 417 00:21:23,105 --> 00:21:26,245 faculty member swoops in with, here's what you need to know right now. 418 00:21:26,645 --> 00:21:28,135 And then I can incorporate that. 419 00:21:28,135 --> 00:21:29,995 Here's what I need to know to overcome this challenge 420 00:21:30,305 --> 00:21:31,545 that develops in the schema. 421 00:21:31,815 --> 00:21:32,075 Right. 422 00:21:32,085 --> 00:21:33,635 That develops in the long term memory. 423 00:21:33,824 --> 00:21:35,395 That's what we call active learning. 424 00:21:35,635 --> 00:21:37,115 And that's also what we call agency. 425 00:21:39,915 --> 00:21:40,685 You are awesome. 426 00:21:40,915 --> 00:21:41,845 Oh, you're awesome. 427 00:21:41,855 --> 00:21:42,205 Thank you. 428 00:21:43,395 --> 00:21:44,044 Well, I'm awesome. 429 00:21:44,044 --> 00:21:44,814 Just listening. 430 00:21:45,724 --> 00:21:46,514 I feel it. 431 00:21:46,530 --> 00:21:48,540 I love that. 432 00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:55,750 Um, you, you are talking about, you know, engaging students and doing things 433 00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:57,890 that, that mean something for them. 434 00:21:58,030 --> 00:22:00,709 You know, things that are like, you know, their projects. 435 00:22:00,709 --> 00:22:05,750 There are, there are things that are not, you know, I actually, I don't know 436 00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:10,220 whether you hear this a lot, but I see this a lot, which is people talk about 437 00:22:10,220 --> 00:22:13,250 project-based learning, but there are really sort of a couple of different 438 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,020 levels of project-based learning. 439 00:22:15,250 --> 00:22:17,849 I think there's like the project-based learning where someone designed the 440 00:22:17,849 --> 00:22:21,830 whole project to just every step that you are supposed to go through. 441 00:22:21,869 --> 00:22:23,219 To me, that's not really a project. 442 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:28,074 It's kind of better than like the truly non project-based learning, but 443 00:22:28,074 --> 00:22:30,225 it's not really like a real project. 444 00:22:30,274 --> 00:22:33,305 It's not a project that you, you get to be part of. 445 00:22:33,445 --> 00:22:35,415 You're just like, you know, almost like following Legos. 446 00:22:35,415 --> 00:22:38,424 Like, step one, step two, step three. 447 00:22:38,574 --> 00:22:39,625 Look, it's not bad. 448 00:22:39,635 --> 00:22:43,435 But, it's like way better than that in my mind. 449 00:22:44,184 --> 00:22:44,954 Absolutely. 450 00:22:45,084 --> 00:22:48,945 And, and so, can you talk a little bit about project-based learning 451 00:22:48,955 --> 00:22:53,189 or these kind of more, You know, active learning is a more, more, 452 00:22:53,419 --> 00:22:57,760 much more engaged kind of learning, the just in time kind of learning 453 00:22:57,770 --> 00:22:59,419 that, that, that you were talking. 454 00:22:59,419 --> 00:23:00,740 Can you give us some examples? 455 00:23:00,740 --> 00:23:03,420 And I think you had, we were talking, you were about to talk 456 00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:05,099 about potentially ePortfolio. 457 00:23:05,309 --> 00:23:06,810 Please feel free to throw that in there. 458 00:23:07,219 --> 00:23:09,229 Um, how, what's an example of that? 459 00:23:09,229 --> 00:23:11,970 What does it look like in the real classroom for someone who, 460 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,270 you know, so far has said, all right, this is abstract idea. 461 00:23:15,270 --> 00:23:16,340 Yeah, of course. 462 00:23:16,340 --> 00:23:16,879 You're telling me. 463 00:23:17,379 --> 00:23:19,020 You know, dessert tastes good. 464 00:23:19,020 --> 00:23:21,040 I get it, but give me a real dessert. 465 00:23:21,060 --> 00:23:21,530 Describe it. 466 00:23:22,949 --> 00:23:24,080 Yeah, absolutely. 467 00:23:24,129 --> 00:23:29,419 Um, I think a lot of it comes down to the gradual release of responsibility. 468 00:23:29,449 --> 00:23:32,399 I know that's a contested term in educational spaces, but I think it's 469 00:23:32,399 --> 00:23:37,939 helpful, um, as a heuristic to think about how much as faculty are we willing to 470 00:23:37,939 --> 00:23:41,620 gradually release of our responsibility over the learning environment, 471 00:23:41,649 --> 00:23:43,399 over the students, over the course. 472 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,550 Um, we want that to be gradual and want that to be part of a process. 473 00:23:47,909 --> 00:23:51,620 If I do the single assignment prompt as you just described it, where I lay out 474 00:23:51,620 --> 00:23:55,060 every single step and students get that up front, they're just following a script. 475 00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:57,800 I have not released any kind of responsibility. 476 00:23:57,820 --> 00:24:00,429 I've kept it all, I've marked it all down. 477 00:24:00,659 --> 00:24:02,920 Um, students don't get much of a choice in the matter. 478 00:24:03,415 --> 00:24:05,475 That word choice is the, is the secret sauce. 479 00:24:05,764 --> 00:24:06,784 That's key, right? 480 00:24:06,784 --> 00:24:10,365 We want multiple opportunities in project-based learning, um, active 481 00:24:10,365 --> 00:24:14,115 learning, flipped classrooms, no matter what the model is, no matter what the 482 00:24:14,115 --> 00:24:18,754 fad is, um, I think of these, these pedagogical terms like diets, right? 483 00:24:18,754 --> 00:24:21,885 Like a new diet comes out and then people follow it for a little bit. 484 00:24:21,905 --> 00:24:25,385 They fall off the diet, the same diet comes out, but it's repackaged under a 485 00:24:25,385 --> 00:24:29,064 different name and then everybody jumps on it again, but it's still the same thing. 486 00:24:29,345 --> 00:24:32,185 Um, and that's essentially what we're talking about with active learning. 487 00:24:32,185 --> 00:24:32,399 It's. 488 00:24:32,509 --> 00:24:35,679 How many opportunities do students have to make decisions 489 00:24:36,030 --> 00:24:37,169 based on what they're learning? 490 00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:40,300 They don't get a lot of opportunities to make decisions, right? 491 00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:42,250 Like we tell them how they're going to be assessed. 492 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:44,100 We tell them what assignments to complete. 493 00:24:44,159 --> 00:24:45,290 We tell them what to know. 494 00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:49,140 And part of that is justified because yes, we are the content experts. 495 00:24:49,140 --> 00:24:50,290 We know what they should know. 496 00:24:50,290 --> 00:24:53,519 And you, it kind of defies the definition of being a student. 497 00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,159 If you already know what you need to know. 498 00:24:55,570 --> 00:24:59,600 That's why it's a gradual release of responsibility and it's more Um, it's 499 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,460 more collaborative than it is linear. 500 00:25:01,660 --> 00:25:06,210 Now, what this looks like, I think AI has actually really helped us 501 00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:10,660 clarify what this looks like for, because of chat GPT, for example, 502 00:25:10,940 --> 00:25:12,979 um, the single assignment prompt. 503 00:25:13,540 --> 00:25:14,110 It's dead. 504 00:25:14,150 --> 00:25:15,850 It has to be dead by now, right? 505 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,190 If you're a student in my class and I give you that single assignment prompt 506 00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:22,199 that tells you everything you should do step by step, all you have to do 507 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,850 is copy and paste that in the chat GPT and you'll get your final product. 508 00:25:25,259 --> 00:25:29,169 But if I take that single assignment prompt and I break it up, and I say, 509 00:25:29,219 --> 00:25:32,339 instead of having one prompt or one description, we're going to go through 510 00:25:32,340 --> 00:25:34,530 this in phases and steps, like step one. 511 00:25:34,909 --> 00:25:36,659 Decide a topic for your project. 512 00:25:36,820 --> 00:25:38,189 That's a lot of cognitive work. 513 00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:39,100 We overlooked that. 514 00:25:39,110 --> 00:25:42,850 We think because, you know, we've pursued our interests as faculty, as scholars. 515 00:25:43,250 --> 00:25:46,290 We've pursued our interests for so long that interest is second nature to us. 516 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,129 We don't remember what it's like for me and, you know, being that video game 517 00:25:50,129 --> 00:25:53,979 player who was skipping school to not realize that my interests mattered here. 518 00:25:53,980 --> 00:25:57,919 That takes a lot of cognitive and socio-emotional work to know, you know, 519 00:25:57,929 --> 00:26:01,169 what counts and what's included and do I feel safe enough to include that. 520 00:26:01,445 --> 00:26:05,794 So, choosing a topic and having people, having students have time to decide 521 00:26:05,794 --> 00:26:06,855 what they would like to explore. 522 00:26:06,855 --> 00:26:09,155 That takes feedback, that takes community, that takes process. 523 00:26:09,644 --> 00:26:13,854 Once they have that topic, maybe asking them for a justification. 524 00:26:13,865 --> 00:26:14,655 Why that topic? 525 00:26:14,684 --> 00:26:17,485 What about your lived experience has led you to this topic? 526 00:26:17,485 --> 00:26:19,814 The same way you asked me, um, how did J. 527 00:26:19,815 --> 00:26:20,004 T. 528 00:26:20,004 --> 00:26:20,865 Torres came to be? 529 00:26:20,895 --> 00:26:22,365 I literally asked my students that. 530 00:26:22,645 --> 00:26:25,095 Almost the second week of the semester when they're deciding their topics. 531 00:26:25,105 --> 00:26:26,615 How did you arrive here in this room? 532 00:26:26,855 --> 00:26:29,155 Why did you select this topic and what are you hoping to do with it? 533 00:26:29,435 --> 00:26:30,695 Lots of thinking with that. 534 00:26:30,995 --> 00:26:32,585 They don't know what's coming next. 535 00:26:32,595 --> 00:26:36,274 They don't know that this topic is going to actually outline their semester 536 00:26:36,274 --> 00:26:38,005 project is going to become their capstone. 537 00:26:38,005 --> 00:26:39,095 It's going to become their career. 538 00:26:39,455 --> 00:26:40,685 They don't have to think about that. 539 00:26:40,685 --> 00:26:42,875 It's right here, right now in this moment, what matters. 540 00:26:43,204 --> 00:26:44,635 And then breaking that down. 541 00:26:44,665 --> 00:26:45,985 Okay, well now you have a topic. 542 00:26:46,175 --> 00:26:47,565 Now you've told your life story. 543 00:26:47,845 --> 00:26:50,815 Next thing we need to know as scholars is what's been written about it, right? 544 00:26:50,815 --> 00:26:52,955 Like what, What is the literature out there? 545 00:26:52,955 --> 00:26:53,875 What's the landscape? 546 00:26:53,885 --> 00:26:54,805 What are the theories? 547 00:26:54,805 --> 00:26:55,585 What's the evidence? 548 00:26:55,935 --> 00:27:00,295 And then doing some kind of literature review and gathering, um, information and 549 00:27:00,295 --> 00:27:02,884 sources with or without AI and chat GPT. 550 00:27:02,925 --> 00:27:05,785 This is where ePortfolio comes in really, really handy because 551 00:27:05,785 --> 00:27:07,014 it makes learning visible. 552 00:27:07,215 --> 00:27:10,615 It makes that process visible as a digital story that we can visually see. 553 00:27:10,885 --> 00:27:13,895 And maybe with hyperlinks and videos and all these modalities to just 554 00:27:13,925 --> 00:27:16,225 deepen our engagement with the topic. 555 00:27:17,275 --> 00:27:19,175 And, and then from that literature review, right? 556 00:27:19,175 --> 00:27:20,725 Like, all right, now we have all these sources. 557 00:27:20,965 --> 00:27:24,205 What did you notice as the missing elements, right? 558 00:27:24,205 --> 00:27:27,025 Like, this is what we claim that to know about this topic. 559 00:27:27,025 --> 00:27:28,695 Like, let's say someone chooses climate justice. 560 00:27:29,035 --> 00:27:33,175 Um, and we know that, um, there are much higher rates of pollution or 561 00:27:33,185 --> 00:27:36,425 ecological disaster around communities of color or communities who are 562 00:27:36,425 --> 00:27:39,255 living in low, um, income, um, areas. 563 00:27:39,615 --> 00:27:42,265 And so if we know that to be true, then what's the missing element? 564 00:27:42,275 --> 00:27:43,275 What can we do? 565 00:27:43,535 --> 00:27:48,005 To advance this conversation to provide some kind of social change 566 00:27:48,155 --> 00:27:49,265 based on this knowledge, right? 567 00:27:49,265 --> 00:27:51,385 And so we're just taking it step by step. 568 00:27:51,435 --> 00:27:54,045 I've thrown away the single assignment description. 569 00:27:54,045 --> 00:27:55,685 I don't use it at all anymore. 570 00:27:55,685 --> 00:27:58,904 And I was, I was not using it before AI, but definitely not now. 571 00:27:59,165 --> 00:28:00,105 Um, because. 572 00:28:00,250 --> 00:28:01,510 I want students to stay on their toes. 573 00:28:01,510 --> 00:28:03,330 I don't want them to know exactly what's coming next. 574 00:28:03,330 --> 00:28:07,020 I like that element of surprise and dramatic tension since I pull from 575 00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:08,600 my experience as a creative writer. 576 00:28:08,690 --> 00:28:12,430 But also, if they don't know what's coming next, they can't game the system. 577 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,530 And if, and that fact that that suspense is there and that tense, 578 00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:17,100 That, that tension is there. 579 00:28:17,250 --> 00:28:19,790 That also means engagement and interest and curiosity are there. 580 00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:20,850 I love that. 581 00:28:20,860 --> 00:28:23,550 It is basically thinking of classes like playing a video game. 582 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,919 It's just Yep, exactly. 583 00:28:24,929 --> 00:28:25,290 Awesome. 584 00:28:26,169 --> 00:28:27,999 That's, so like now it's pretty transparent. 585 00:28:28,009 --> 00:28:29,279 Like, why I do what I do. 586 00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:30,489 It's all because of Legend of Zelda. 587 00:28:30,859 --> 00:28:36,129 Well, it all goes down to the There is something that I, I want to 588 00:28:36,129 --> 00:28:38,979 circle back to that I, I just love. 589 00:28:39,329 --> 00:28:45,110 Um, you know, you had From the very get go, you talked about Quinnipiac 590 00:28:45,129 --> 00:28:49,460 being a professional school that cares about students that can come out to 591 00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:53,060 change society, to make changes to the world, right, in meaningful ways. 592 00:28:53,730 --> 00:29:01,689 Um, I think that this is a big part of something that I, I see in, in 593 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,379 all different kind of contexts. 594 00:29:03,610 --> 00:29:09,500 Um, when I, you know, a lot of people talk about critical thinking skills, you know. 595 00:29:10,330 --> 00:29:13,260 Oftentimes critical thinking skills, people are referring to almost as 596 00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:15,550 a, as a problem solving skills. 597 00:29:15,550 --> 00:29:19,089 It's like, yeah, the questions, how do you get to the answer? 598 00:29:19,399 --> 00:29:25,085 And I think that there's that critical making skills that Questions forming 599 00:29:25,085 --> 00:29:29,745 skills that actually, I think some people can easily, easily argue that's 600 00:29:29,785 --> 00:29:33,354 actually part of critical thinking as well, but that's not how it usually 601 00:29:33,365 --> 00:29:34,875 translates into the classroom. 602 00:29:35,525 --> 00:29:39,045 Oftentimes, you know, it's like, here's all the questions you get to answer, 603 00:29:39,575 --> 00:29:43,724 but what I really love about what you're doing is, no, no, no, no, hold on. 604 00:29:44,004 --> 00:29:48,445 You are coming with the questions and you're answering them because if they 605 00:29:48,445 --> 00:29:54,055 don't get a chance to ask questions, how, how are they going to be able to. 606 00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,370 Feel the agency and the responsibility and the rights to go on and make 607 00:30:00,370 --> 00:30:01,670 changes to the, in the world. 608 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:02,860 Exactly. 609 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,710 Cause if they, they're always like, no, no, no. 610 00:30:04,710 --> 00:30:06,849 The question to be asked, you just have to answer it. 611 00:30:07,210 --> 00:30:08,070 Well, hold on a minute. 612 00:30:08,499 --> 00:30:10,110 Who gets to ask the questions? 613 00:30:10,230 --> 00:30:11,170 Exactly. 614 00:30:11,369 --> 00:30:11,739 Right. 615 00:30:11,860 --> 00:30:14,620 Do you just like, does questions just always exist? 616 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,720 There's just like facts, you know, somewhere in the air, we can just 617 00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:20,540 go in and answer it, it doesn't, it doesn't work like that, right? 618 00:30:20,740 --> 00:30:22,680 Someone's actually coming up with the questions. 619 00:30:22,690 --> 00:30:23,320 It's in the view. 620 00:30:23,730 --> 00:30:28,440 If everyone's just answering, you know, um, answering them, it's just half of 621 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,440 the, it's just half the experience. 622 00:30:30,490 --> 00:30:32,100 To me, that's just not good, you know? 623 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,339 Exactly, exactly. 624 00:30:33,340 --> 00:30:36,000 And you're also defining critical thinking really well. 625 00:30:36,030 --> 00:30:39,669 Um, and I say that because I, I know that the definition for critical 626 00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:40,780 thinking is very subjective. 627 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,040 Um, APA has one definition. 628 00:30:43,310 --> 00:30:46,140 Um, if you look at critical pedagogy and critical scholars, 629 00:30:46,140 --> 00:30:46,810 they have a different definition. 630 00:30:46,895 --> 00:30:49,965 Definition that focuses more on critiquing systems of power, right? 631 00:30:49,965 --> 00:30:51,325 So it's, it's all over the place. 632 00:30:51,595 --> 00:30:55,715 Um, but I think one of that universal elements is that ability to ask questions. 633 00:30:56,025 --> 00:30:59,275 Um, and that is, and I think that is something that we take for granted. 634 00:30:59,305 --> 00:31:01,994 I teach a lot of first year courses, first year writing. 635 00:31:02,275 --> 00:31:05,915 Um, I really, really love the first year experience of higher 636 00:31:05,915 --> 00:31:09,215 education because it's this massive transition for human beings. 637 00:31:09,565 --> 00:31:13,484 Um, not just for students, just for humans to take, to embark on this new journey. 638 00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:16,870 Regardless of whether they're traditional students and they're, um, exploring 639 00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:20,260 independence for the first time, or if they're students who are making 640 00:31:20,260 --> 00:31:24,880 career changes, students returning from, um, returning from military 641 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,580 service, or students transitioning. 642 00:31:28,355 --> 00:31:32,255 Um, from prison back into the community, um, these populations are 643 00:31:32,255 --> 00:31:33,485 going through massive transformation. 644 00:31:33,485 --> 00:31:37,525 So I love this identity because how can you not be full of questions in 645 00:31:37,525 --> 00:31:39,105 this massive transformative moment? 646 00:31:39,345 --> 00:31:43,990 But teaching first year courses, one thing that I have found is When I, when 647 00:31:43,990 --> 00:31:48,490 I first started teaching, I would come in right away, day one, and the introduction 648 00:31:48,490 --> 00:31:51,800 to the course, our icebreaker was, what question do you have about the world? 649 00:31:51,850 --> 00:31:53,090 What questions do you have about the world? 650 00:31:53,530 --> 00:31:55,830 At first, it was just silence, right? 651 00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:58,959 Like, it was almost like people were waiting for me to tell them what questions 652 00:31:58,999 --> 00:32:03,219 they should have about the world and how I've had to learn to scaffold that 653 00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:06,680 Even that process in terms of first, you start with some kind of narrative. 654 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:07,950 Like, who are you and why are you here? 655 00:32:07,980 --> 00:32:08,170 All right. 656 00:32:08,170 --> 00:32:10,230 Based on that, what questions do you have about the world? 657 00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:12,900 Or what was your past experience right before this one? 658 00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:14,260 Um, where were you working? 659 00:32:14,270 --> 00:32:14,929 Where were you living? 660 00:32:14,930 --> 00:32:15,580 Who were you living with? 661 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,180 What questions do you have based on that? 662 00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:19,570 But it had to provide some kind of context or starting point 663 00:32:19,829 --> 00:32:23,860 because we don't offer a lot of opportunities to ask those questions. 664 00:32:23,860 --> 00:32:26,740 And that is a fundamental element of critical thinking. 665 00:32:27,290 --> 00:32:29,130 And there's also a politics to it, right? 666 00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:29,760 So I've, um. 667 00:32:30,395 --> 00:32:35,435 I showed this example, um, when I, when I taught, um, Environmental Literacy, um, 668 00:32:35,525 --> 00:32:41,080 in, at Quinnipiac in our Interdisciplinary Studies program, um, The politics 669 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,040 of, as you said, who gets to ask a question is latent with power, right? 670 00:32:45,050 --> 00:32:47,880 Who has the power to ask a question is very different, right? 671 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,110 Like that's, that's not the same for everyone. 672 00:32:50,130 --> 00:32:55,009 And we could see those politics play out in terms of certain dominant systems. 673 00:32:55,550 --> 00:32:57,020 Preferring one question over another. 674 00:32:57,020 --> 00:33:00,440 So the example that I share with my class is the green revolution. 675 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,190 Um, in the sixties, where we, where we figured out, um, how to mass produce 676 00:33:05,309 --> 00:33:09,310 food, because the question we were asking was, how do we feed the world? 677 00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:12,549 Now, if you look behind the scenes, who was asking that question, a lot 678 00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:17,329 of it was the large agricultural industry who wanted to increase profits. 679 00:33:17,669 --> 00:33:20,359 And so feeding the world more cheaply. 680 00:33:21,485 --> 00:33:24,635 Incentive, but the rest of us heard that question of social justice. 681 00:33:24,735 --> 00:33:26,415 We were like, yeah, we should feed the world. 682 00:33:26,625 --> 00:33:30,984 But what we know about the introduction of synthetic fertilizers and all 683 00:33:30,984 --> 00:33:35,524 these harmful farming techniques is we actually created a more dangerous. 684 00:33:35,905 --> 00:33:39,115 Ecological Environment, and I use the word ecological to say like not just 685 00:33:39,115 --> 00:33:42,215 for the soil, but also for the kinds of foods we were creating, which were 686 00:33:42,215 --> 00:33:46,494 much more process based, much more sugar based, much more carb based, and 687 00:33:46,495 --> 00:33:50,775 we actually introduced new problems that weren't there because we were 688 00:33:50,815 --> 00:33:56,024 asking a very profit seeking question rather than a truly equitable question. 689 00:33:57,455 --> 00:34:01,005 Here's a preview of what's coming up next in part two of my conversation with J. 690 00:34:01,005 --> 00:34:01,215 T. 691 00:34:01,215 --> 00:34:04,345 Torres, Director of the Center for Teaching and Learning 692 00:34:04,345 --> 00:34:05,805 at Quinnipiac University. 693 00:34:06,395 --> 00:34:10,134 You know, first thing, plagiarism is older than AI, right? 694 00:34:10,145 --> 00:34:14,654 Like, we know that that this has been a concern for many years, um, 695 00:34:14,674 --> 00:34:19,494 for everybody, and this goes back to our, our relationship with assessment 696 00:34:19,494 --> 00:34:22,805 that's more about accountability than it is about improvement, right? 697 00:34:22,805 --> 00:34:24,275 And, and it's not. 698 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:29,340 We haven't been so concerned with, let me assess where you are, low stakes, so 699 00:34:29,340 --> 00:34:32,870 I can see where you are, so I can help you improve wherever you are, right? 700 00:34:32,870 --> 00:34:35,979 It's always been, let me assess where you are because this assessment is going 701 00:34:35,979 --> 00:34:39,250 to have implications for your financial aid, for your scholarship, for your 702 00:34:39,250 --> 00:34:40,620 career, for your ability to say it. 703 00:34:40,620 --> 00:34:43,970 Like we just create all these pressures that we inadvertently 704 00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:48,350 message to students, you better pass regardless of how you pass, right?