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Rupert Isaacson: Welcome to Live Free
Ride Free, where we talk to people who

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have lived self-actualized lives on
their own terms, and find out how they

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got there, what they do, how we can
get there, what we can learn from them.

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How to live our best lives, find
our own definition of success,

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and most importantly, find joy.

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I'm your host, Rupert Isaacson.

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New York Times bestselling
author of the Horse Boy.

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Founder of New Trails Learning
Systems and long ride home.com.

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You can find details of all our programs
and shows on Rupert isaacson.com.

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Welcome back to Live Free Ride Free.

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It's all about self actualization.

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And we've got somebody pretty
self actualized Kansas Caridine.

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Should I say Caridine or Caridine?

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Kansas Carradine: It's actually Caridine.

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Rupert Isaacson: Caridine.

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Good job I asked.

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Those of you like me who are
5, 000 years old or so remember

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growing up with the series Kung Fu.

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At least you especially
do if you're a Brit.

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And and I think also if you're
American and what sort of cult that

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was and David Carradine, who was the
obviously the star of that coming

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out of a, of a, of an acting family.

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Well, his daughter Kansas has taken
a self actualized journey, which I

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think is unusual particularly for
coming out of a background like that.

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And I think it's one
we can all learn from.

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I think it's one that.

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We can all get some mentorship from I
know I certainly can so I'm not gonna

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preamble too much I'm just gonna say that
I I first met Kansas About four or 500

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years ago, I think it was in the early
2009 or 10, we were both at a place in

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Northern California where there was a
sort of equine assisted thing going on.

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And we had a brief conversation in
which I picked up a fallen deer antler,

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which I still have in this house.

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So every time I see that fallen deer
antler, I'm like, Kansas caridina.

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Yes, I remember.

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And always had this sort of feeling
that we would end up talking more.

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And then.

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Through the, his eminence, Warwick
Schiller we met again in San Antonio

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last year at the last summit and in a
raucous bar in the hotel, managed to

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work out the intention to chat further.

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So here we are.

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So Kansas, thank you very,
very much for making the time.

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I know the listeners have
a big treat in store.

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Can you tell us in brief who you are?

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Kansas Carradine: Oh, I think
that question for anybody is

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so interesting because who we
are exists in so many different

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domains, so many different levels.

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I'm a mother 1st and foremost
to be 2 beautiful daughters.

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I have been largely identified
in the question industry and

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when people ask, what do you do?

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I just get to say, I ride horses.

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I have been blessed to be able
to, have horses be threaded

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and woven throughout my life.

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When I was 11 years old, I decided
to leave home, the home that you

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referenced to was really in Hollywood,
like in the thick of it, and everything

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that you could imagine that is
associated with 1980s Hollywood, and

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I moved out when I was in grade six.

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And followed my nose into the horse
world deeply, and then lived in a really

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authentic California horse ranch that was
steeped in kind of cow horse tradition.

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And the family that cared for
that particular organization

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became my foster family.

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So I often refer to them as my cowboy
family or my foster family because I

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stayed there until I was 18 years old.

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That's the Riata

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Rupert Isaacson: Ranch, correct?

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Kansas Carradine: Correct.

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Yeah, we had a ranch.

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Rupert Isaacson: Tell us about that.

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And you say grade six.

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For those of us who are, who are
Brits and Europeans and can't think

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in those terms, how old was that?

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Kansas Carradine: I was 11.

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Okay.

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11 years old.

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Yeah.

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And when I made the negotiation and
I did, I really negotiated and I

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said, I'm going to go move into this
horse ranch and I'm going to leave.

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And I had, this is 1 of those
blessings that comes and we have

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different experience in life
that we could say are traumatic.

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And instead of that post traumatic stress,
it was really a post traumatic growth.

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That gave me the independence to
move along and say, Oh yeah, I can go

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move here and I can make that choice.

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And I moved in with a different family.

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I had already bounced around quite a bit.

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Rupert Isaacson: What made you think?

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Oh my gosh, aged 11.

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Absolutely gut feeling.

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I can trust this family.

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I can, I can make that sort of
a effectively self actualized

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decision at that age.

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What, what was going on with you
that you felt you not only had that

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confidence, but also that discernment.

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Kansas Carradine: Certainly.

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I mean, I think again, there's
so many answers to that.

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There is definitely a lot of intuition.

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And the intuition without thinking,
without questioning, without insecurity

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and self doubt that comes with
kind of, as we get older, we attach

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stories and we get a little bit more
in our mind and we, and we hesitate.

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But intuitively I had gone there
for horse for a two week horse camp.

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And initially I had just fallen in
love with the lifestyle with The horses

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with living and breathing and living
on a ranch that is attractive enough

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to, to, to grab any 11 year old girl.

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I think who has a passion for horses.

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And so to wake up and we had probably 40
head of horses on the ranch at the time,

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you know, over a dozen different trick
riding horses and just kind of a legacy.

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It was totally a dream world.

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The, I showed up in my
britches and hat and helmet.

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And the first thing that we did
is put on swimsuits and ride the

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horses bareback through the river.

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And then spend all night in tennis shoes,
practicing to stand up on horses or run

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beside them and really feel that blend.

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And so anyway, it was
all extremely alluring.

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But the decision to move in with them
is that they had created what I would

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say, a field of safety and security
that was a reliable energetic imprint

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that I was attracted to that stability.

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And truly what I was seeking at that
time was just grounding and stability

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and it was so wholesome and to have
foster parents who are basically a

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generation older, so they were really
still connected to, we could say the

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old ways there was something in my
soul that really felt drawn to that.

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And so I was following again,
something that's really beyond the

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mind, just this intuitive impulse.

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It's

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Rupert Isaacson: not every girl,
though, who would have grown up

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in, as you say, 1980s Hollywood
with all the sort of excess that

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one associates with that, who would
necessarily have been able to tap into.

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Her intuition to that degree, even
after, you know, a two week magical

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camp I guess what I'm fishing for
is a lot of people say I wish I was

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more in touch with my intuition.

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And obviously we know that children
generally are, and then it's sort

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of, you know, we told that we need to
separate from it as we get older, but it.

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It doesn't sound like 1980s Hollywood
was necessarily fantastic training ground

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for trusting one's intuition, or was it?

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And were your family actually
A family that despite all the

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Hollywoodness actually taught you how
to foster intuition to some degree

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or did it come from somewhere else?

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What do you think?

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Kansas Carradine: I honestly think
it came from somewhere else and

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something that had been cultivated
deep perhaps beyond different beyond

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this birth without a doubt because
there was not a lot of interaction.

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I think growing up with.

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Artists who have a different assigning
to heart and meaning that being in

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the field is definitely something.

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So there was always music around
and there's always the desire

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to, to follow your heart in terms
of being assigned with artistry.

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There was a certain amount of Eastern
influences as well as, you know, my

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father was involved in some projects that
worked with indigenous people and Native

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American church and things like that.

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I didn't know that.

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Okay.

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Yeah, so that was around the AIM, the
original, like, American Indian movement

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that was taking place in the 70s as well.

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But there was not a lot, you know,
the pendulum swings both ways in

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generations, and so I think my parents
generation was extremely conservative

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and very controlling, and therefore
they were very liberal to me, and so

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there was not a lot of, of, of teaching.

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Mentorship, it was just kind of, all
right, we'll let you grow like a wild a

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seed in, in a field and just let you be.

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And, and perhaps that in and of itself
allowed me to tap into my intuitive

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impulses because I didn't have a lot
of restrictions that being said, I

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was seeking more form and boundaries,
which is what I actually appreciated

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about having a German foster father.

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Okay, we had a very organized, you
know, clean running ship at the,

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at the stables that appealed to
me on many different dimensions.

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And then at the same time,
I would say that, you know.

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Also, when you're around somewhat
of a chaotic environment, then you

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start to rely a little bit more on
the awareness and perceptions of

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safety and be more present to it.

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And so, since that was switched on to
me at a very early age I think that made

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me aware of environments that where I
felt safe and secure or environments

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that I wanted to move away from.

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And so, hence that Riding stable this it
was truly a sanctuary and it had again

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the resonance of security and stability
that I was attracted and drawn to

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Rupert Isaacson: do you have siblings
and did they display the same degree

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of precocious intuition or is it

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Kansas Carradine: just you?

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I was raised pretty much as an only child,
so my siblings were quite a bit older and

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raised in different homes, so we didn't
spend that much time together at all.

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And they're artists as well, and we
have wonderful time together because

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we're quite iconoclast or magnet.

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We're not your average
conservative type of people at all.

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My sister and my brother both are,
we're, we're all pretty eclectic but not

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because we were under the same household.

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Rupert Isaacson: Okay, so you, now you
said that the couple that were running

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the Riata Ranch at that time, that the
the male half of the couple was German.

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What was a German doing being
running a trick riding ranch

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in California at that time?

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What was their story?

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Kansas Carradine: How did that?

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It's an amazing story and if I ever meet a
screenwriter one day that can help me put

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it out it's just fabulous, but You know,
he was actually from North Dakota and was

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raised on Will James Storytelling books.

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So the old Westerns always wanted to be
a cowboy and at 12 years old ended up

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hopping on a train Thinking that he was
going straight to Arizona, which is where

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Western life, and he ended up in Hollywood
as the stable boy for Will Rogers, who

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was the biggest movie star at the time.

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And, you know, slept in the, in the
mangers of the horses and end up becoming

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you know, a rider and some of the sale
yards, because he was a really good rider.

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Very good horseman because German
father would hook teams together and

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for plowing fields and things like
that and brought that tradition.

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In a very that lineage
was really established.

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So when he brought it to Hollywood, he
was actually doubling Jennifer Jones

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and do a little the sun as well as
Elizabeth Taylor in national velvet.

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And then he always wanted to be a
cowboy, so he quit the Hollywood

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thing himself and ended up in this
small town about 3 hours north.

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And he was a calf roper, but he had a
car accident that quit his rodeo career.

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And because he couldn't, find
a way to basically pay the

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bills for his young family.

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Somebody said, well, why don't you
teach a couple lessons to my kids?

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And that four students in the first
year grew into a hundred students.

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And there was a thriving, it was
just destiny created this crisis.

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And he became a mentor to over,
over, I want to say over 3000

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students between the 50s, 60s, 70s.

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And then I joined at the end of the 80s.

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And where did the

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Rupert Isaacson: trick
riding come from with this?

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Kansas Carradine: He was always
introducing lots of multidisciplinary

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masters to come in and teach the kids.

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So there was a lot of rain, cow,
horse, and then, you know, rodeo.

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And then somebody came who knew some
trick writing, you know, they did

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Rosenbach writing and Roman writing.

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And then the trick writing team
became a demonstration team.

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And in the late seventies, it just
got a lot of attention until there

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was a pivot and that became the
exclusive offering in the eighties.

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And then.

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Currently today, that team
still exists in a different

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incarnation, but it's still going.

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What's the name of the team now?

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It's still the Riata Ranch Cowboy Girls.

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Yeah, trick riding and trick roping.

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There's a famous old Hollywood cowboy
named Monty Montana who brought

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ropes into the program And so then
we started doing the trick roping

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and really I always explain it's
it's such an ancient art There's not

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many people who have ever seen trick
riding before much less know about it.

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And so it's wonderful that it's that's
one place where it can kind of be

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nourished and And then it helped me
later on, since being involved with

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Cavalia, find my path really into the
circus world and the performing arts,

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this kind of vaudevillian entertainment.

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Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

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So, so talk us through you, you
find yourself at the on this

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two week horse camp, you're
introduced to this wonderful world.

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You're ready.

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Horses are already clearly in your blood.

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And you then make this decision
to Basically move in and sort

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of be a daughter and, you
know, become a trip rider.

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You are 11 when this happens.

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You then go out and become a
performer, a public performer,

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sort of full time performer.

00:13:52.629 --> 00:13:52.979
At what

00:13:52.979 --> 00:13:53.279
Kansas Carradine: age?

00:13:55.199 --> 00:13:59.929
Well, I mean, I was doing the
highest level shows at 12, 13.

00:14:00.309 --> 00:14:01.379
So it started early.

00:14:01.979 --> 00:14:05.599
And then maintained, I mean, we had
done everything from, you know, Super

00:14:05.599 --> 00:14:10.719
Bowl, halftimes and 49er games to World
Equestrian Games and Aquitana and all

00:14:10.719 --> 00:14:15.209
of those Cheval Passion, which is in
Avignon, France, with a young Lorenzo,

00:14:15.209 --> 00:14:19.079
Lorenzo was there and Fred and Magalie who
ended up hiring me with Cavalia were also

00:14:19.079 --> 00:14:21.119
there performing at the, at that event.

00:14:21.199 --> 00:14:26.809
So, yeah, it started early, which is
which is a blessing in and of itself.

00:14:26.809 --> 00:14:31.569
I mean, I had a significant amount
of burnout early on because I'd

00:14:31.569 --> 00:14:34.779
already done so many things and had
been pushed to a very high level.

00:14:35.209 --> 00:14:39.769
And at the same time, I also didn't
have the same type of striving.

00:14:39.769 --> 00:14:40.879
Like, I need to prove this.

00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:45.199
I really want to be able to get to this
next level because it was It had already

00:14:45.199 --> 00:14:46.999
been attained, you know, quite early on.

00:14:47.449 --> 00:14:52.359
So my I guess my natural magnetism to
still be in work with horses without

00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:55.549
was with a true love and a true desire.

00:14:55.579 --> 00:14:59.149
It was not because I expected it to
bring me some sort of other means.

00:14:59.649 --> 00:15:02.139
And this is also the gift of
growing up, you know, around

00:15:02.139 --> 00:15:06.719
celebrity and fame is because I
saw really the impermanence of it.

00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:10.379
And it was never something
that I had to strive for.

00:15:10.859 --> 00:15:12.229
I was just really following what.

00:15:12.644 --> 00:15:17.334
What what felt nourishing on a soul
level, you know, the desire to be

00:15:17.334 --> 00:15:21.324
with horses and find that unity and
have that relationship, which was

00:15:21.374 --> 00:15:23.304
much more the reason that's the rub.

00:15:23.914 --> 00:15:26.084
Rupert Isaacson: So you, but you
talk about burnout and you're

00:15:26.084 --> 00:15:27.634
talking about burnout very young.

00:15:29.234 --> 00:15:32.514
How old were you in this
first of perhaps more than one

00:15:32.514 --> 00:15:34.954
burnout and what burned you out?

00:15:36.569 --> 00:15:39.189
Kansas Carradine: Yeah, so, there
was definitely a significant amount

00:15:39.189 --> 00:15:40.769
of pressure and inflexibility.

00:15:40.869 --> 00:15:44.249
So, all the 7 years through school
and through secondary school, there

00:15:44.249 --> 00:15:45.799
was no option to do other things.

00:15:46.249 --> 00:15:50.669
I had some other passions and interests,
and to be fair, I should say I was allowed

00:15:50.669 --> 00:15:55.199
to do you know, kind of mock trial debate
certain plays and things like that.

00:15:55.199 --> 00:15:59.679
But I wanted to focus And get really
deep into musical theater and focus

00:15:59.679 --> 00:16:01.929
a lot more on singing and voice.

00:16:02.289 --> 00:16:05.519
And that was not allowed
because my commitments with

00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:07.549
the writing team or so big.

00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:12.349
So that was kind of the 1st teenage
angst that I think I experienced.

00:16:12.839 --> 00:16:16.969
And then by the time I was
18, I really pulled back.

00:16:17.339 --> 00:16:21.989
And had to find my own way and I
didn't want to be introduced as

00:16:21.989 --> 00:16:23.519
David Carradine's daughter anymore.

00:16:23.819 --> 00:16:27.239
I did not want to be wearing just,
you know, the red, white and blue

00:16:27.269 --> 00:16:31.019
because I'd been doing that for so
long and kind of this Americana role.

00:16:31.389 --> 00:16:32.179
And so.

00:16:32.349 --> 00:16:37.979
I actually ended up handling a love for
the mountains and spending a lot of time

00:16:38.009 --> 00:16:42.369
up in Alpine environments and more, you
know, Yosemite and the Sierra's here

00:16:42.369 --> 00:16:47.719
where we live living up in ski areas
and following that passion and still

00:16:47.719 --> 00:16:50.219
doing some shows from time to time.

00:16:51.724 --> 00:16:56.374
And then it wasn't until I came back into
Los Angeles and started going more into

00:16:56.374 --> 00:17:00.754
the stunt world, actually coming back
into horses full time, but I was burnt

00:17:00.764 --> 00:17:06.724
out to the point that horses were, that
had become just a job and there was not so

00:17:06.724 --> 00:17:08.564
much like the joy and the love behind it.

00:17:08.984 --> 00:17:12.984
And when I was cast for Cavalia,
I had already auditioned and was

00:17:12.984 --> 00:17:14.484
hired before I'd ever seen the show.

00:17:15.019 --> 00:17:18.249
And the first time that I saw the show, I
was just weeping and weeping and weeping

00:17:18.249 --> 00:17:21.429
because it was so beautiful and I couldn't
believe that I was a part of something

00:17:21.909 --> 00:17:25.859
that really was much more in alignment
with my core values than being in rodeo.

00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:26.869
So I've never gone back.

00:17:27.169 --> 00:17:28.739
I appreciate my rodeo roots.

00:17:29.209 --> 00:17:30.599
I appreciate everything that it taught me.

00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:32.589
And I love a lot of things
about Western culture.

00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:35.799
But I haven't done a rodeo
since, since I was 18.

00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:38.923
Rupert Isaacson: What year
were you hired at Cavalia?

00:17:38.924 --> 00:17:40.623
2004.

00:17:42.504 --> 00:17:43.074
Kansas Carradine: So it's been 20

00:17:43.074 --> 00:17:43.494
years,

00:17:43.634 --> 00:17:44.084
Rupert Isaacson: right?

00:17:44.094 --> 00:17:46.894
So, and I think, I think
that was the show that I saw.

00:17:47.084 --> 00:17:52.324
I saw it in Dallas that year and I
remember also being absolutely gobsmacked

00:17:52.374 --> 00:17:56.864
because, you know, I'd seen beautiful
equestrian spectacles before and so on.

00:17:56.864 --> 00:17:58.584
So they're always, they're always amazing.

00:17:58.694 --> 00:18:02.304
But there, I remember that there was
a quality to that particular show.

00:18:03.034 --> 00:18:06.014
And I also remember, I, We, in
our preamble, where it said that

00:18:06.024 --> 00:18:07.804
I also, like you, lived in Quebec.

00:18:07.844 --> 00:18:09.214
We'll get there later.

00:18:09.224 --> 00:18:11.744
And I remember I was around in
Quebec when Cirque du Soleil

00:18:11.784 --> 00:18:15.124
first began, and I remember going
to a few of the early shows.

00:18:15.769 --> 00:18:20.669
And when it was still something
very, very new and being blown away.

00:18:20.709 --> 00:18:24.139
And then when that connection came
with horses thinking, Oh my gosh,

00:18:24.139 --> 00:18:30.299
this is, this is that absolute nexus
of art and passion and excellence.

00:18:30.659 --> 00:18:33.289
So it's, it's, it's interesting to me.

00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:33.989
What.

00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:43.169
What do you think was the, because
that, that show had a particular, I

00:18:43.169 --> 00:18:44.999
didn't see any further Cavalia shows.

00:18:45.029 --> 00:18:49.809
I think I almost didn't want
to because I, I felt that if it

00:18:49.829 --> 00:18:53.659
wasn't quite that magical again,
it would disappoint me, you know?

00:18:53.659 --> 00:18:57.469
And, and, and so I wanted to remain
with an, and I remember watching

00:18:57.469 --> 00:18:59.129
Frederick Pignon Magali doing.

00:19:01.149 --> 00:19:05.189
Taking liberty to a whole other
thing that none of us had seen

00:19:05.189 --> 00:19:09.709
before and the trick riding being
astonishing and mixed with humor and

00:19:09.739 --> 00:19:11.779
storytelling and just, just great.

00:19:12.379 --> 00:19:16.569
What do you think was going on
that you ended up in the right

00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:18.199
place at the right time there?

00:19:18.864 --> 00:19:22.784
Because, you know, I, I know lots
of people who've been in trick

00:19:22.784 --> 00:19:25.044
riding teams, good trick riding
teams and that sort of thing.

00:19:25.374 --> 00:19:28.334
And they're all very accomplished,
but this was something else.

00:19:28.334 --> 00:19:29.254
This was something special.

00:19:29.254 --> 00:19:31.874
It almost felt like there was
something almost a bit occult

00:19:31.874 --> 00:19:33.104
or supernatural at work there.

00:19:33.324 --> 00:19:36.444
What took us through your experience?

00:19:37.794 --> 00:19:40.614
Kansas Carradine: Yeah, I mean, I always
feel like there was, it was a ceremony.

00:19:40.654 --> 00:19:46.614
And at the time I had already been
attracted to Being engaged in sacred

00:19:47.204 --> 00:19:51.234
relationship and being engaged
in really meaningful ceremony

00:19:51.234 --> 00:19:55.794
and indigenous ceremonies and was
really wanting to align myself with

00:19:55.814 --> 00:20:05.424
things that had more of an impact in
ways that work on the non physical

00:20:05.424 --> 00:20:08.274
domain, but have really an energetic.

00:20:09.579 --> 00:20:11.529
Ripple effect, if that makes sense.

00:20:12.149 --> 00:20:16.249
So at the time I was living in Los Angeles
and when I became hired for Cavalia

00:20:16.249 --> 00:20:20.069
and saw that I was again attracted to
the resonance and this is something

00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.119
we'll get to heart math at some point,
but I started to notice when we're

00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.419
attracted to energy where it's like
there's a magnetism there that draws

00:20:26.419 --> 00:20:27.709
us in and there's a shared resonance.

00:20:27.719 --> 00:20:30.819
So we're really attracted to
frequency and the frequency that

00:20:30.819 --> 00:20:32.109
Fred and Magalie would choose.

00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:32.889
So, yeah.

00:20:33.174 --> 00:20:37.334
Authentically experienced on your
own, there was a way that they had

00:20:37.334 --> 00:20:41.514
this respect with horses that at
the time was not widely broadcast.

00:20:41.694 --> 00:20:42.954
It's not that it didn't exist.

00:20:43.734 --> 00:20:47.514
And I think I heard you speaking
about you know, those who are living

00:20:47.514 --> 00:20:50.934
a self actualized life that not
not necessarily are celebrities.

00:20:51.999 --> 00:20:54.049
You know, everybody is there undiscovered.

00:20:54.049 --> 00:20:56.179
There's some of the greatest
work has said that before.

00:20:56.179 --> 00:20:57.279
There's some of the
greatest horse trainers.

00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:01.609
We don't know they're in, they're
in doing their amazing stuff.

00:21:01.609 --> 00:21:03.579
Yeah, exactly.

00:21:03.889 --> 00:21:06.729
But this was an opportunity
that it was widely broadcast.

00:21:06.729 --> 00:21:10.599
And since I was already, you know,
a stage performer and a question

00:21:10.629 --> 00:21:15.039
artist for so many years, I
recognized that right along as right.

00:21:15.564 --> 00:21:20.424
Quickly as being exceptional and
unique and special, and if you gather

00:21:20.424 --> 00:21:24.254
2000 people under that big top every
night, which we would tease, it

00:21:24.254 --> 00:21:25.704
can make its own weather as it is.

00:21:25.714 --> 00:21:29.424
Like, there's something about the geometry
of that particular big top everywhere.

00:21:29.424 --> 00:21:33.254
We went, you know, that we have
would have the craziest storms.

00:21:33.284 --> 00:21:36.694
You know, Quebec City had a hurricane,
which it never should have had.

00:21:36.984 --> 00:21:41.414
Sedona or Sedona or Scott still was
flooding, so there was something about

00:21:41.434 --> 00:21:48.104
the ceremony of 2000 people coming in
to witness love between interspecies.

00:21:48.384 --> 00:21:50.484
In this case, it was equine and human.

00:21:51.174 --> 00:21:53.424
And the storytelling behind it was really.

00:21:53.774 --> 00:21:56.084
Touching in with that, which is ancient.

00:21:56.134 --> 00:21:59.974
So there was something about the tracking
internally that you feel on a soul level.

00:22:00.374 --> 00:22:03.644
There was no words and the
storytelling was very subtle.

00:22:03.934 --> 00:22:08.354
So it allowed you to go into this dream,
like, almost shamanic kind of state.

00:22:08.914 --> 00:22:13.394
And it was the first time that people
were truly witnessing compassion.

00:22:13.729 --> 00:22:18.592
On stage at a large scale, because what
people would remark about, we didn't

00:22:18.592 --> 00:22:22.369
really have language for it then,
but we were watching Fred Pignon and

00:22:22.369 --> 00:22:27.119
Magalie be compassionate to the horses
when they made quote unquote mistakes,

00:22:27.449 --> 00:22:33.139
because it was really feeling and flowing
with instead of following a hard line

00:22:33.159 --> 00:22:34.709
of, okay, this is how you execute.

00:22:34.709 --> 00:22:36.099
And this is the definition of success.

00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:39.279
So all of a sudden we stumbled upon it.

00:22:39.299 --> 00:22:43.199
This, it was like opening Pandora's
box or opening Alice in Wonderland's

00:22:43.639 --> 00:22:47.229
you know, falling down the rabbit hole
into a world that was really trying to

00:22:47.229 --> 00:22:52.339
strive for the ideals of compassion and
right relationship before they were even

00:22:52.339 --> 00:22:54.359
becoming common in our, in our language.

00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:55.859
Well, you, I mean,

00:22:55.949 --> 00:22:59.629
Rupert Isaacson: you talk about ceremony
and feeling a sense of that, were

00:22:59.629 --> 00:23:01.319
you thinking in those terms at that?

00:23:02.034 --> 00:23:02.414
age.

00:23:02.724 --> 00:23:04.724
And if so, where did you get that from?

00:23:05.094 --> 00:23:09.344
Because you by then were, as you
say, a very choreographed performer.

00:23:09.924 --> 00:23:15.424
And okay, yes, your, your parents
have been a bit around the American

00:23:15.424 --> 00:23:18.264
Indian movement and Native American
church and so on, but you've

00:23:18.284 --> 00:23:20.574
broken away from that environment.

00:23:20.794 --> 00:23:26.219
So, so where out of this highly
choreographed Sort of, as

00:23:26.219 --> 00:23:29.889
you say, Americana type, red,
white, and blue type show.

00:23:30.169 --> 00:23:32.909
Where were you getting these ideas
about ceremony and compassion?

00:23:33.979 --> 00:23:36.749
Kansas Carradine: I mean, I honestly
think a lot of it has to do with the

00:23:36.749 --> 00:23:39.139
privilege of being raised in California.

00:23:39.509 --> 00:23:42.149
And Southern California is
a pretty progressive place.

00:23:42.149 --> 00:23:46.869
And so coming back home I
decided It was a very specific,

00:23:46.869 --> 00:23:48.149
pivotal moment, to be honest.

00:23:48.149 --> 00:23:51.669
I moved back to Los Angeles in
2001, right after September 11th.

00:23:52.349 --> 00:23:55.039
And somebody said, hey, I can
get you a job serving tables.

00:23:55.049 --> 00:23:55.879
You just moved to L.

00:23:55.879 --> 00:23:56.109
A.

00:23:56.149 --> 00:23:57.339
at a really fancy.

00:23:57.339 --> 00:24:01.499
She, she rest sushi restaurant
on sunset Boulevard and it

00:24:01.499 --> 00:24:02.469
would have been an easy thing.

00:24:02.469 --> 00:24:03.719
So I showed up in line.

00:24:04.469 --> 00:24:04.969
Excuse me.

00:24:05.009 --> 00:24:05.879
And there was all of these.

00:24:07.044 --> 00:24:11.744
Professionals and people who not likely
with families and whatnot with attached

00:24:12.244 --> 00:24:16.154
cases and suits and they were all trying
to get a line because everything, you

00:24:16.154 --> 00:24:20.094
know, there's been all these massive
layoffs and we were in a huge recession

00:24:20.094 --> 00:24:22.264
now and I took 1, look at that line.

00:24:22.264 --> 00:24:23.684
And I was like, I don't need to do this.

00:24:23.684 --> 00:24:25.004
I don't need this job that bad.

00:24:25.264 --> 00:24:28.264
And I ended up working for
a crystal lady for like, 300

00:24:28.264 --> 00:24:29.604
dollars a week in Santa Monica.

00:24:29.604 --> 00:24:33.174
And she was an energetic
healer medium and.

00:24:33.384 --> 00:24:37.710
We worked with crystals and
that was the first time.

00:24:37.710 --> 00:24:39.447
Rupert Isaacson: I

00:24:39.447 --> 00:24:45.904
Kansas Carradine: was genuinely already
seek a spiritual seeker, you know,

00:24:45.904 --> 00:24:49.724
hungry and ravenous for everything
that I could read about spirituality.

00:24:50.034 --> 00:24:53.624
About, you know, at the time it was
really anything that kind of new

00:24:53.624 --> 00:24:55.954
age and really it's ancient wisdom.

00:24:55.964 --> 00:24:58.434
It's, it's the occult,
it's esoteric wisdom.

00:24:59.114 --> 00:25:04.294
And so ravenous and, and all of
that kind of feeding that desire I

00:25:04.294 --> 00:25:06.964
was looking at I can't remember the
name of it, but it was like a mind,

00:25:06.964 --> 00:25:10.104
body, spirit magazine that was quite
popular and there was an advertisement

00:25:10.114 --> 00:25:11.984
in it and that's what I answered.

00:25:12.634 --> 00:25:15.194
And, you know, when you go to an
interview and they ask you for your

00:25:15.224 --> 00:25:18.214
birth date with the time so that
they can do your astrology in order

00:25:18.214 --> 00:25:21.684
to get the job, it was that kind
of a thing, you know, 20 years ago.

00:25:23.209 --> 00:25:26.649
And at the same time, I had also
can't really remember how those

00:25:26.649 --> 00:25:30.879
contacts I just was setting out
the intention that I wanted to

00:25:30.879 --> 00:25:32.799
work again in native communities.

00:25:33.189 --> 00:25:37.459
And so I was involved in different long
dances with women's circles as well

00:25:37.459 --> 00:25:41.059
as with the, the Shumash nation here
in Southern California, which is part

00:25:41.059 --> 00:25:45.533
of, you know, my roots and I guess I'm
missing a really big piece, which yeah.

00:25:45.684 --> 00:25:49.204
Even though I haven't done any
DNA testing, I was told my whole

00:25:49.204 --> 00:25:52.194
life, my grandmother was from
the reservation in Oklahoma.

00:25:52.764 --> 00:25:56.334
And so my mother's grandmother
is Native American.

00:25:56.864 --> 00:25:59.883
We don't know which reservation is
a lot of reservations in Oklahoma.

00:25:59.884 --> 00:26:01.844
We don't know any of those stories.

00:26:01.874 --> 00:26:05.314
We just know that she came from
Oklahoma, ended up in Texas, and

00:26:05.314 --> 00:26:08.504
then married my great grandfather
and ended up in Southern California.

00:26:08.974 --> 00:26:12.734
And this was something that was
hidden from our history because

00:26:13.234 --> 00:26:16.634
my mother's maternal side of the
family was embarrassed by it.

00:26:17.224 --> 00:26:20.144
And so, you know, there's something
called Mongolian spots, which

00:26:20.144 --> 00:26:21.534
is an imprint that happens.

00:26:21.544 --> 00:26:25.474
It's like Appaloosa imprint on
like a birthmark that I have.

00:26:25.844 --> 00:26:28.844
And so I was always told that,
but there was really no support.

00:26:29.194 --> 00:26:30.984
It is it's around like, the sacrum.

00:26:30.994 --> 00:26:31.214
Yeah.

00:26:31.254 --> 00:26:31.544
Yeah.

00:26:31.594 --> 00:26:31.794
Yeah.

00:26:31.794 --> 00:26:31.934
Yeah.

00:26:32.074 --> 00:26:32.584
On your bum.

00:26:32.794 --> 00:26:37.474
Basically a little when you're a baby,
and then they kind of, you know, fade out.

00:26:38.074 --> 00:26:41.254
So I had always been connected to that.

00:26:41.624 --> 00:26:46.784
Internally, not because there was a
lot of external influence and so I was

00:26:46.844 --> 00:26:51.074
seeking out to be a part of ceremony
and had started doing, you know, sweat

00:26:51.074 --> 00:26:56.044
lodges and I ended up going to South
Dakota and spending time with, those that

00:26:56.044 --> 00:26:58.704
are actually outside of the reservation,
because they haven't signed the treaty

00:26:58.714 --> 00:27:03.014
in Lakota homes, is different than,
you know, being on Pine Ridge, but had

00:27:03.014 --> 00:27:07.964
always wanted to give back in any sort
of way, as well as learn to be more

00:27:07.974 --> 00:27:09.815
in alignment with the natural world.

00:27:09.815 --> 00:27:10.249
Was that

00:27:10.249 --> 00:27:12.224
Rupert Isaacson: happening, was that
happening during the same time that you

00:27:12.224 --> 00:27:16.514
were riding with the Riata Ranch, or
was this in that, in the interim period?

00:27:17.234 --> 00:27:17.754
Kansas Carradine: Correct.

00:27:17.764 --> 00:27:19.034
It was during that interim period.

00:27:19.034 --> 00:27:21.137
So you went, you went actively
out looking for this stuff?

00:27:21.137 --> 00:27:22.073
Right before I came to Kivalya.

00:27:22.534 --> 00:27:22.924
Right.

00:27:23.094 --> 00:27:23.784
Absolutely.

00:27:23.794 --> 00:27:24.084
Yeah.

00:27:24.534 --> 00:27:29.154
Now, for the point that I will laugh about
this because, you know, there's certain

00:27:29.154 --> 00:27:31.534
ways that you're supposed to follow.

00:27:31.584 --> 00:27:35.874
You know, trying to get work, for example,
in Los Angeles, you're supposed to stay

00:27:35.874 --> 00:27:40.524
in town and follow the momentum and I
would maybe get a little breadcrumb and

00:27:40.524 --> 00:27:41.944
that would kind of sustain me for a while.

00:27:41.944 --> 00:27:45.354
And then I would leave town and then
I would go to North Dakota and go

00:27:45.354 --> 00:27:50.934
spend time with native people or,
you know, end up out and in You know,

00:27:50.934 --> 00:27:54.794
my manager couldn't get a hold of me
because I was checked out and hiking

00:27:54.794 --> 00:27:56.804
up in, in, in the wilderness somewhere.

00:27:57.134 --> 00:27:59.234
So I was not a very good actor.

00:27:59.504 --> 00:27:59.814
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

00:27:59.854 --> 00:28:03.144
Well, but hold on where we,
where we left you was, in

00:28:03.144 --> 00:28:04.574
Santa Monica at a crystal shop.

00:28:05.144 --> 00:28:09.464
And now suddenly you've got a manager
and you're doing some Hollywood jobs.

00:28:09.744 --> 00:28:10.904
So what happened there?

00:28:11.064 --> 00:28:11.994
You, you decided

00:28:12.394 --> 00:28:12.484
Kansas Carradine: actually.

00:28:14.194 --> 00:28:14.564
Yeah.

00:28:14.564 --> 00:28:16.134
I mean, it all just kind of unfolded.

00:28:16.464 --> 00:28:19.754
I had moved down there to spend some
time because there was a certain amount

00:28:19.754 --> 00:28:24.454
of encouragement to be a part of the
family business and the family legacy.

00:28:24.964 --> 00:28:29.214
And so I was, you know, taking
acting classes and was going out

00:28:29.214 --> 00:28:32.033
on some auditions and my dad would
tease, you know, cause I would.

00:28:33.424 --> 00:28:34.644
He's like, wow, you're
about in a thousand.

00:28:34.644 --> 00:28:36.274
Everything you go out
on, you've been booking.

00:28:36.714 --> 00:28:38.194
But my, my heart wasn't in it.

00:28:38.244 --> 00:28:40.544
And so I was always trying to, was

00:28:40.544 --> 00:28:43.024
Rupert Isaacson: this straight up
acting or was this also riding?

00:28:43.754 --> 00:28:47.784
Kansas Carradine: So it
ended up taking both sides.

00:28:47.804 --> 00:28:50.574
So yes, there was some straight up
acting and that was always kind of

00:28:50.574 --> 00:28:56.174
like the desire for You know, the
family encouragement, but I, when I was

00:28:56.194 --> 00:29:01.484
visiting with a A livestock contractor,
he had worked with my grandfather.

00:29:01.484 --> 00:29:04.784
He had worked with my dad and
all my uncles and he said,

00:29:04.784 --> 00:29:05.764
oh, you went to be at a ranch.

00:29:05.764 --> 00:29:06.764
You sure can ride.

00:29:07.064 --> 00:29:08.274
I've got some work for you.

00:29:08.804 --> 00:29:12.504
And so my 1st job we're actually,
you know, for the screen actor skill.

00:29:12.504 --> 00:29:13.314
We're doing stunt work.

00:29:13.334 --> 00:29:18.354
I did both and then there's always,
they're always to have that judgment

00:29:18.394 --> 00:29:20.054
of like, well, you can't do both.

00:29:20.314 --> 00:29:23.194
You can either do the stunt
world or you can do be really

00:29:23.194 --> 00:29:25.014
focused on being a serious actor.

00:29:25.614 --> 00:29:30.504
So again, those were like the, you're,
you're in an artistic artistic environment

00:29:30.514 --> 00:29:33.484
and already you have these constructs
that society wants to put on you.

00:29:33.484 --> 00:29:35.014
You can't do it this way in that way.

00:29:35.794 --> 00:29:39.674
And I care for such labels.

00:29:40.204 --> 00:29:40.974
Rupert Isaacson: Quick rewind.

00:29:40.984 --> 00:29:43.984
You'd said that one of the reasons that
you burned out was that you, there were

00:29:43.984 --> 00:29:47.334
some other things you wanted to explore,
including singing in musical theatre.

00:29:47.874 --> 00:29:48.694
Well that's acting.

00:29:48.964 --> 00:29:50.214
And there you are in Hollywood.

00:29:50.414 --> 00:29:52.564
So, had you lost the
desire for that by then?

00:29:54.084 --> 00:29:58.994
Kansas Carradine: Yeah, because I realized
That I mean, I enjoyed performing and

00:29:58.994 --> 00:30:02.484
I enjoyed being on the live stage,
which is why when Cavalia came along,

00:30:02.484 --> 00:30:07.104
it was really easy to join the circus,
basically it's a little bit of a different

00:30:07.104 --> 00:30:08.904
texture as opposed to being on set.

00:30:09.594 --> 00:30:14.644
And so, you know, and then
there was a time when after I

00:30:14.644 --> 00:30:15.574
had been on the show for some.

00:30:15.834 --> 00:30:17.334
For a while, for a few years or something.

00:30:17.334 --> 00:30:19.984
My dad gave me, you know, when I
teased one of those left handed

00:30:19.984 --> 00:30:23.044
comments of, you know, what you're
doing is actually kind of cool.

00:30:23.134 --> 00:30:26.884
Like, Josh thinks, you
know, after all these years.

00:30:27.504 --> 00:30:28.024
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

00:30:28.244 --> 00:30:29.974
Parental encouragement
is an interesting thing.

00:30:30.324 --> 00:30:32.134
We've all got fun stories that way.

00:30:32.204 --> 00:30:36.524
I wanted to ask you though you, you were
reaching out also at this interim time

00:30:36.524 --> 00:30:39.644
before Kivala, I want to get back to
Kivala in a minute, but you said you were

00:30:39.644 --> 00:30:44.634
going up to North Dakota, spending time
with Lakota, going to spend time with the

00:30:44.634 --> 00:30:48.664
Chumash, who for those listeners who don't
know, the Native American world, that's

00:30:48.694 --> 00:30:52.894
the, that's the tribe that is sort of
the most prevalent in the California that

00:30:52.894 --> 00:30:57.594
we think of as California, that sort of
strip that goes up from Los Angeles North.

00:30:57.594 --> 00:30:58.058
I think that was really interesting.

00:30:58.429 --> 00:31:01.859
But what a lot of listeners might
not know particularly listeners from

00:31:01.859 --> 00:31:05.809
the UK and so forth, is that that's
not an easy world to penetrate.

00:31:05.869 --> 00:31:12.449
I've spent various bits of my life in and
around bits of Native America as well.

00:31:12.499 --> 00:31:17.099
And it's, it's not, it's, you know,
it's not necessarily a very inclusive

00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:20.009
world because of, you know, the
history and the trauma and so on.

00:31:20.369 --> 00:31:24.599
And particularly The Lakota
and particularly the Chumash.

00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:25.849
I just happened to know that.

00:31:26.089 --> 00:31:30.029
How did you, what was different
for you that you could penetrate

00:31:30.199 --> 00:31:32.499
those worlds so easily?

00:31:32.869 --> 00:31:33.889
Because it's not

00:31:33.889 --> 00:31:34.199
Kansas Carradine: easy.

00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:37.589
It's true.

00:31:37.619 --> 00:31:44.249
I think what's coming to my mind first
and foremost is the value that My mentors

00:31:44.269 --> 00:31:49.869
from Riata Ranch being more traditional
and teaching the value of silence and

00:31:49.869 --> 00:31:54.659
teaching the value of respect to elders
and teaching the value of humility

00:31:55.179 --> 00:32:01.599
and deep listening and that sense of
cultivated presence all of those things

00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:08.409
that I showed up with There's like an
energetic key signature that allows

00:32:08.959 --> 00:32:10.809
again, it's about establishing safety.

00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:12.549
Do we trust this person?

00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:16.229
Can their mind be quiet
to receive information?

00:32:16.899 --> 00:32:24.899
And so the aspects of, of, of humility and
respect I find were certainly part of the

00:32:24.899 --> 00:32:28.439
portals and really remaining authentic.

00:32:28.499 --> 00:32:34.369
I mean, I used to always say I prefer
to be around the horses in, in Hollywood

00:32:34.379 --> 00:32:38.909
because you can't Be fake around horses.

00:32:39.969 --> 00:32:41.909
You have to be authentic.

00:32:42.429 --> 00:32:45.249
And there's obviously a lot of
smoke and mirrors that take place

00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.799
with regards to the Westerns and
Hollywood and things like that.

00:32:48.169 --> 00:32:50.269
An actor will show up and
be like, yeah, I can ride.

00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:52.779
And very quickly, it will be
discovered that that was a lie.

00:32:53.169 --> 00:32:54.489
But by and large.

00:32:55.219 --> 00:32:59.589
The horses were teaching me about
being authentic and carrying

00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:01.199
that authenticity with me.

00:33:01.199 --> 00:33:04.489
It's, it's something that
you can, you know, there's a,

00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:06.139
there's a, it's a palpable,

00:33:06.269 --> 00:33:06.709
Rupert Isaacson: Oh, for sure.

00:33:06.719 --> 00:33:11.709
And I think within what you were doing
with that level of trip riding, I grew

00:33:11.709 --> 00:33:17.129
up in Leicestershire, partly in the UK,
which is the heavy, heavy fox hunting.

00:33:17.514 --> 00:33:21.404
It's team chasing, steeple chasing,
point to point, cross country riding,

00:33:21.404 --> 00:33:24.724
whether, you know, the fences are bananas
and you can't see on the other side

00:33:24.724 --> 00:33:27.884
of them and you just get, everyone's
getting mangled around you all the

00:33:27.884 --> 00:33:33.194
time and you have to trust your life
to the horse and you, you, you can't.

00:33:34.514 --> 00:33:38.764
As you say, sharp and authentically,
and I think all the people I know

00:33:38.764 --> 00:33:40.194
who, who trick write like that.

00:33:40.194 --> 00:33:49.384
It's, it's the same that, that the
trust it's insane, but the, the entry

00:33:49.434 --> 00:33:53.924
I'm, I'm hopping on this, the entry
into the Native American world that

00:33:53.924 --> 00:33:55.464
must have come through relationships.

00:33:55.924 --> 00:33:58.254
These things usually come
through human relationships.

00:33:58.584 --> 00:34:05.164
Was there a particular mentor or
set of mentors who helped you go in?

00:34:05.194 --> 00:34:08.164
And could you just talk a little
bit about those relationships?

00:34:09.824 --> 00:34:10.384
Kansas Carradine: Certainly.

00:34:10.884 --> 00:34:15.524
And I will say one of the things that I
was always present to is I think early

00:34:15.524 --> 00:34:22.429
on I decided I really didn't want my
my name to be At the forefront of an

00:34:22.439 --> 00:34:26.309
introduction, because I didn't want it
to color people's experience and I didn't

00:34:26.309 --> 00:34:31.809
want it to give me access that I wouldn't
have earned authentically on my own.

00:34:33.914 --> 00:34:37.814
And so I would, you know, have this
name Kansas and I would often just,

00:34:37.844 --> 00:34:40.404
you know, this is Kansas and I
would know people for years before

00:34:40.404 --> 00:34:41.554
they ever even knew my last name.

00:34:41.734 --> 00:34:41.974
Yeah.

00:34:42.034 --> 00:34:45.134
And it's, it's been very useful at times.

00:34:45.684 --> 00:34:49.634
And I think my, my genuine
introduction into the you know,

00:34:49.684 --> 00:34:53.334
Schumach community, there's a
particular elder named choice slow.

00:34:53.874 --> 00:35:01.284
Who's still with us, and I was
honored to have his instruction.

00:35:02.169 --> 00:35:07.299
As well as there was a woman nearby as
well named red branch and then another

00:35:07.349 --> 00:35:11.629
from that tribe named my wall and they
knew of my connection with horses.

00:35:11.969 --> 00:35:15.859
They knew of, I think my sincerity
to seek and understand and

00:35:15.879 --> 00:35:17.189
just to listen and to learn.

00:35:17.834 --> 00:35:23.584
And so, spending time with understanding
the listening and, and connection to

00:35:24.584 --> 00:35:28.514
the, the birds, those that fly, those
that crawl, the four legged, the two

00:35:28.514 --> 00:35:30.564
legged, and the inter species relations.

00:35:31.054 --> 00:35:35.264
It was the first time that I understood
that there's really, I mean, there's

00:35:35.264 --> 00:35:40.529
many worlds existing side by side, but
that there are certain Members of the

00:35:40.529 --> 00:35:46.819
community, for example, that wouldn't get
in cars, because that type of movement is,

00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:53.709
it disturbs your perception of movement
when you can have more stillness you

00:35:53.709 --> 00:35:57.859
know, choice low would mention oftentimes
that there's 3 beyonds, beyond, beyond,

00:35:57.869 --> 00:36:02.929
beyond, and that when we think that
we're going to this getting behind the

00:36:02.929 --> 00:36:07.249
meaning behind something, there's still
many more layers even to that yet.

00:36:08.034 --> 00:36:12.404
So, I always, I think with all my
teachers, I always want to move

00:36:12.404 --> 00:36:14.334
in just like I did when I was 11.

00:36:14.344 --> 00:36:20.774
There was something inside that when I
see mastery or recognize that type of

00:36:20.814 --> 00:36:25.614
information, there's that willingness
to really sit at the feet of the master.

00:36:26.799 --> 00:36:32.379
And recently, I was thinking that watching
Kung Fu, there's this discipleship, guru

00:36:32.379 --> 00:36:34.829
disciple relationship that is depicted.

00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.179
And I thought, wow, that was
imprinted on me at such a young age.

00:36:38.189 --> 00:36:42.049
And it's something that I really,
I really love apprenticeship.

00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:45.719
I think there's a real healthy
human experience within that.

00:36:45.779 --> 00:36:47.559
That's just something
that I've been coded for.

00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:51.259
So I really like to work with
math masters and really surrender

00:36:51.259 --> 00:36:54.859
my own idea of, of superiority.

00:36:55.094 --> 00:36:58.604
Like, I don't know what I don't know, so
please there's been many opportunities

00:36:58.634 --> 00:37:02.534
where I could share something, but if I'm
sharing, then I'm not able to receive.

00:37:02.544 --> 00:37:03.024
So go ahead.

00:37:03.494 --> 00:37:05.534
Rupert Isaacson: So you,
you, you mentioned a master

00:37:05.534 --> 00:37:06.944
a mentor, Choi Slow, right?

00:37:07.074 --> 00:37:07.664
Choi Slow?

00:37:07.664 --> 00:37:09.694
Have I said it correctly?

00:37:10.144 --> 00:37:12.124
How did you, how'd you meet him?

00:37:12.174 --> 00:37:19.134
And yeah, because it's, again, it's,
you don't just waltz up and down Venice

00:37:19.134 --> 00:37:21.914
beach running into Chumash elders.

00:37:22.294 --> 00:37:23.874
So what was the process?

00:37:25.689 --> 00:37:32.059
Kansas Carradine: So, he was living up
in a a small camp, I would say, up behind

00:37:32.089 --> 00:37:38.649
Ojai, and I was introduced to him by
Maewu, who's also Chumash, and it was at

00:37:38.649 --> 00:37:44.189
a time when I had decided I didn't want
to be assigned to traditional holidays,

00:37:44.489 --> 00:37:48.809
so this was actually the time when
Americans are having Thanksgiving and I

00:37:48.839 --> 00:37:53.509
decided that I would rather be involved in
something that was, you know, meaningful.

00:37:53.509 --> 00:37:57.779
And I was invited to go up and
spend time at this camp and.

00:37:58.409 --> 00:38:03.179
Choice low was staying there had been
there for, I believe, many, you know,

00:38:03.179 --> 00:38:08.289
weeks and months, even though the
reservation is several miles away.

00:38:08.299 --> 00:38:09.409
It was distance.

00:38:09.819 --> 00:38:13.089
And they were, there was some
efforts to be able to create

00:38:13.109 --> 00:38:15.039
another kind of community outside.

00:38:15.249 --> 00:38:17.909
If, you know, within indigenous
communities, there's.

00:38:18.812 --> 00:38:21.962
This is a minus is to 2 functions
happening in the reservation.

00:38:21.962 --> 00:38:22.252
Right?

00:38:22.592 --> 00:38:26.672
And so, oftentimes there's, there's a
necessity to have kind of a satellite

00:38:27.282 --> 00:38:30.182
location and this other place.

00:38:30.202 --> 00:38:32.072
Just the region was really
connected to the land and it's

00:38:32.072 --> 00:38:33.232
very close to where I'm born.

00:38:33.692 --> 00:38:37.352
And so, we were, there
was no other intention.

00:38:37.612 --> 00:38:42.032
Other than really just sitting and being
in presence and specifically the medicine,

00:38:42.092 --> 00:38:47.162
like understanding the, the animal
medicine and the different clans is what I

00:38:47.162 --> 00:38:49.272
was really I guess, being educated about.

00:38:49.272 --> 00:38:51.962
So it was talking a lot
about the nature of each.

00:38:52.757 --> 00:38:55.687
We would call it like a totem
animal and how they send

00:38:55.687 --> 00:38:57.217
messages to each of the clans.

00:38:57.597 --> 00:39:01.287
And at the time Troy Slough was
very connected to, to the birds.

00:39:01.977 --> 00:39:05.757
And now that I'm talking about it,
I'm remembering there was discussion

00:39:05.757 --> 00:39:08.817
about like the Phoenix birds and
my daughter's name is Phoenix.

00:39:09.177 --> 00:39:11.367
And I never really made the
connection until now that we're

00:39:11.367 --> 00:39:13.507
talking that he spoke a lot about.

00:39:13.897 --> 00:39:18.017
Phoenix's and he spoke a lot about the
regenerative nature of a lot of these

00:39:18.027 --> 00:39:22.537
birds and their spirits that humans
don't always see exactly what they're

00:39:22.557 --> 00:39:23.977
contributing to in the spirit world.

00:39:24.537 --> 00:39:28.497
But it's interesting now that I, I share
that with you that my daughter her name.

00:39:28.857 --> 00:39:31.337
I really feel like I
didn't choose the name.

00:39:31.337 --> 00:39:33.767
It just came through like, Oh,
her soul's name is Phoenix.

00:39:34.462 --> 00:39:40.902
And so, you know, my mentorship was
really brief, but the time with Choi he,

00:39:40.922 --> 00:39:44.622
it ended up coming full circle because
he actually performed, I would say

00:39:44.622 --> 00:39:46.652
the last rites at my father's funeral.

00:39:47.132 --> 00:39:52.412
And so he came with some other members
from the Chumash nation and they were

00:39:52.412 --> 00:39:56.642
there for the last moments when we
were putting the earth onto my father's

00:39:56.642 --> 00:39:56.902
Rupert Isaacson: grave.

00:39:56.902 --> 00:39:58.772
Did your father know them?

00:40:00.027 --> 00:40:01.167
Kansas Carradine: No, okay.

00:40:01.207 --> 00:40:02.517
No, he never was introduced.

00:40:02.537 --> 00:40:05.297
I would have liked to but
it just didn't happen.

00:40:05.557 --> 00:40:10.317
But I asked them to if they would
do me the honor to be there.

00:40:10.317 --> 00:40:12.547
And many people came up
afterward and said, thank you.

00:40:12.547 --> 00:40:14.627
That is what we needed foreclosure.

00:40:14.627 --> 00:40:19.567
That is what we really felt was
the, the most meaningful moment

00:40:19.697 --> 00:40:21.417
of that particular ceremony.

00:40:22.287 --> 00:40:25.417
Rupert Isaacson: Is that that
area, the Ojai area is that

00:40:25.637 --> 00:40:26.757
where you sort of grew up?

00:40:28.217 --> 00:40:30.937
Kansas Carradine: No, I grew up in
really the Santa Monica mountains.

00:40:30.937 --> 00:40:32.517
So just a bit more south.

00:40:32.597 --> 00:40:33.017
Okay.

00:40:33.117 --> 00:40:36.497
So yeah, I was born in Santa Monica
and then, you know, around Hollywood.

00:40:36.627 --> 00:40:36.707
And

00:40:37.777 --> 00:40:40.947
Rupert Isaacson: the reason I'm
asking is again, not every listener.

00:40:41.442 --> 00:40:46.652
Is coming out of the American context or,
you know, knows that geography, but again,

00:40:46.652 --> 00:40:50.972
so for those listeners who, who don't know
that there's a strip of coastal hills that

00:40:50.972 --> 00:40:56.382
goes up the sort of California coastal
hills and they, they, they go from more

00:40:56.382 --> 00:40:58.822
or less just a bit north of Los Angeles.

00:40:59.667 --> 00:41:06.207
Up to behind San Francisco, and
it's a particular landscape.

00:41:06.267 --> 00:41:10.357
I lived, you know, so being a bit
nomadic, I lived for a while in

00:41:10.727 --> 00:41:15.337
where Berkeley and Oakland meet, and
so I fell in love with those hills.

00:41:15.367 --> 00:41:23.897
There is a magic to that landscape
of these rounded, grassy, high hills,

00:41:23.927 --> 00:41:28.376
almost small mountains in some cases,
which are green in one season and

00:41:28.567 --> 00:41:32.327
Golden brown in another season with
these evergreen oak trees that snake

00:41:32.837 --> 00:41:36.777
up and then it's it up the valleys
and it's it's something rather unique.

00:41:36.987 --> 00:41:39.537
But it goes on for sort of
hundreds of miles of this strip.

00:41:39.977 --> 00:41:42.597
And so I just want listeners to picture.

00:41:43.112 --> 00:41:47.012
In their mind that that is
when you mentioned oh, hi.

00:41:47.242 --> 00:41:50.702
Oh, hi is probably one of
the most beautiful bits of an

00:41:50.702 --> 00:41:55.822
already sort of universally
beautiful landscape in this way.

00:41:56.282 --> 00:42:00.582
Did you just before we go to
Cavalia and and your performance

00:42:00.582 --> 00:42:02.222
there and what came after that?

00:42:02.862 --> 00:42:09.902
Can you describe as a child of those hills
and then, as you say, first growing up

00:42:09.902 --> 00:42:14.092
in the sort of Santa Monica disconnected
from the nature while still surrounded.

00:42:14.772 --> 00:42:17.432
Because everything that surrounds
Los Angeles is very beautiful.

00:42:18.092 --> 00:42:20.282
And then connecting.

00:42:21.192 --> 00:42:26.092
Can you just describe But people
who might be driving their car in

00:42:26.102 --> 00:42:29.832
New Zealand or Manchester or New
York or wherever, or Zimbabwe, you

00:42:29.832 --> 00:42:30.682
know, who are listening to this.

00:42:31.082 --> 00:42:36.352
Just, can you, can you describe
any moments where you really were

00:42:36.362 --> 00:42:40.422
brought into the occult connection
with an already occult landscape?

00:42:40.422 --> 00:42:43.372
And just, just, just, just put us there.

00:42:43.662 --> 00:42:44.482
Talk us through that.

00:42:44.682 --> 00:42:46.702
A lot of people have never
had these experiences.

00:42:47.467 --> 00:42:48.457
Kansas Carradine: Certainly, certainly.

00:42:48.837 --> 00:42:52.457
I mean, I was just speaking with a
naturalist when I was down in Patagonia

00:42:52.797 --> 00:42:56.517
about and asking and inquiring,
you know, what was your imprint of.

00:42:56.887 --> 00:43:00.587
Being in one with nature, being
really immersed in nature as a child,

00:43:01.067 --> 00:43:04.687
because obviously, you know, those
people that are still protecting

00:43:04.687 --> 00:43:06.187
endemic species and things like that.

00:43:06.197 --> 00:43:09.357
It's, it's so far beyond what
I believe I'm, I'm doing.

00:43:09.797 --> 00:43:15.057
But 1 of the things that stands really
clear is, my parents were living

00:43:15.057 --> 00:43:17.447
on the beach when I was very small.

00:43:17.757 --> 00:43:21.387
And so I spent a lot of
time in and on the ocean.

00:43:22.007 --> 00:43:28.407
And the beauty of having a very free
childhood is that there was no sense of

00:43:28.627 --> 00:43:32.987
urgency or a schedule, but everything in
terms of time, I was just able to spend

00:43:32.987 --> 00:43:38.257
hours and hours in the sand and hours
you know, looking at starfish and the

00:43:38.287 --> 00:43:42.537
little sand crabs that I would Pick up and
let them run through my fingers and the

00:43:42.557 --> 00:43:44.847
Pacific Ocean here is a little bit colder.

00:43:45.117 --> 00:43:48.527
But to me, and with the, the hot
summers that we have in Southern

00:43:48.527 --> 00:43:51.847
California, Southern California
really has a desert landscape.

00:43:51.847 --> 00:43:53.247
It's very much like Mexico.

00:43:54.577 --> 00:43:59.107
So many introduced species for the
landscaping, but as you described, the

00:43:59.167 --> 00:44:02.927
oaks are truly the signature of the
oaks and the sycamore trees, which have

00:44:02.927 --> 00:44:05.947
these beautiful kind of white marbled.

00:44:06.972 --> 00:44:10.352
Trunks and these very
wide 5 pointed leaves.

00:44:10.352 --> 00:44:17.082
And so I remember as a child really
being activated and fixated by the

00:44:17.082 --> 00:44:21.972
earth by the fennel, which would grow
wild by the trunks of the trees and

00:44:21.972 --> 00:44:23.862
the bark of the oaks and the sycamores.

00:44:24.497 --> 00:44:27.997
And then there was there is,
there's a lot of sandstone here.

00:44:28.017 --> 00:44:31.437
And as you mentioned, kind of steep
hills and cliffs, and there's a

00:44:31.437 --> 00:44:34.057
lot of fossils in there as well
as quartz and things like that.

00:44:34.357 --> 00:44:37.907
And I went to somewhat of an
alternative kindergarten here in,

00:44:38.267 --> 00:44:42.737
in, in LA, and we would cross this
little creek and it's really a desert.

00:44:42.737 --> 00:44:44.697
So it's hardly much, much water down here.

00:44:44.697 --> 00:44:48.397
So a little bit of a stream of
water was just it was like Eden.

00:44:49.472 --> 00:44:52.812
And it was something that anybody
else would look at and not even take a

00:44:52.812 --> 00:44:57.062
second glance, but for a little child
growing up in the desert, this little

00:44:57.062 --> 00:44:59.852
stream of water was just so magical.

00:45:00.172 --> 00:45:03.072
And I would cross this little stream
and I would go to the side and I would

00:45:03.072 --> 00:45:07.412
actually play with the quartz crystals
and things like this, and really having

00:45:07.412 --> 00:45:10.222
the time to just be absorbed deeply.

00:45:10.222 --> 00:45:10.982
I just feel like.

00:45:11.322 --> 00:45:14.902
The, the wind, we're famous
for the Santa Ana winds.

00:45:15.242 --> 00:45:17.762
My name Kansas actually means
child of the south wind.

00:45:17.782 --> 00:45:21.532
So there's something about the
wind in my in my blueprint.

00:45:21.542 --> 00:45:23.662
It, it, for me, it's invigorating.

00:45:23.672 --> 00:45:27.172
It feels the ones that
come from the warm south.

00:45:27.182 --> 00:45:29.092
It's a very feminine wind.

00:45:29.142 --> 00:45:32.792
And then you hear the, the wind
moving through the trees and.

00:45:33.767 --> 00:45:38.787
It was, it was as though nature was still
really breathing very deeply through

00:45:38.807 --> 00:45:44.037
all of my cells even though I went to
regular public school, I trusted nature

00:45:44.037 --> 00:45:49.617
and trusted horses and had a very deep
relationship with them, even before I

00:45:49.617 --> 00:45:53.887
trusted humans, I would say, and now when
I come back to California, because it's,

00:45:53.957 --> 00:45:57.102
it It is so deeply encoded in myself.

00:45:57.162 --> 00:46:00.322
I, I still pay homage to these sandstone.

00:46:00.412 --> 00:46:03.902
There's these huge rock formations, you
know, like Eagle Rock is one of them.

00:46:03.902 --> 00:46:06.542
There's Chumash painted cave, cave.

00:46:06.852 --> 00:46:09.702
The Chumash people were actually
a matriarchal society because

00:46:09.712 --> 00:46:11.582
the life here was so abundant.

00:46:11.982 --> 00:46:13.072
There was enough food.

00:46:13.072 --> 00:46:17.172
There was enough you know, both from the
seafood that, That came from the ocean.

00:46:17.172 --> 00:46:18.892
It was a a temperate climate.

00:46:18.892 --> 00:46:22.702
So there wasn't the same type of
warring society that we're familiar with

00:46:22.962 --> 00:46:26.802
the association with Plains Indians,
the matriarchal society out here in

00:46:26.802 --> 00:46:28.552
the Chumash was very, very balanced.

00:46:28.922 --> 00:46:32.822
And it was through working with them
that I also was able to learn more of

00:46:32.822 --> 00:46:37.172
the storytelling out in a place called
Point Conception, which is the far.

00:46:37.447 --> 00:46:39.947
Farthest western point of California.

00:46:40.447 --> 00:46:43.517
And I had spent some time out there
and then learned that that was the

00:46:43.517 --> 00:46:47.427
place that where they believe the
souls would leave Turtle Island,

00:46:47.937 --> 00:46:49.737
that that was the jumping off point.

00:46:50.497 --> 00:46:54.617
And so, you know, my husband
is a geologist and he'll always

00:46:54.617 --> 00:46:56.317
tell me the science behind stone.

00:46:56.917 --> 00:46:59.747
And to me, it kind of demystifies thing.

00:46:59.747 --> 00:47:02.767
It's like you, when you said
that you didn't want to watch

00:47:02.827 --> 00:47:05.967
Cavalia again, because it might
take away that initial imprint.

00:47:06.347 --> 00:47:09.087
And for me as well, I
prefer the creation stories.

00:47:09.127 --> 00:47:12.937
And when I was in the Lakota Nation,
I learned some of the star stories

00:47:12.967 --> 00:47:17.302
about, you know, the Pleiades, seven
sisters, one Six sisters, one whose

00:47:17.302 --> 00:47:22.552
back was turned, and it was only years
later that it was realized that they've

00:47:22.552 --> 00:47:26.172
known these stories for centuries,
but with modern instrumentation, we

00:47:26.172 --> 00:47:29.532
can see that there is a dark star
there in the Pleiades constellation.

00:47:29.532 --> 00:47:34.552
So all of that, to me, you know, the
preservation of our creation stories,

00:47:34.902 --> 00:47:38.952
and as you travel around and read
them all, you see the similarities

00:47:39.282 --> 00:47:41.392
that to me is what it is to be human.

00:47:43.532 --> 00:47:46.522
Rupert Isaacson: We're about
to go into Cavalia, but there

00:47:46.522 --> 00:47:48.162
you are with the Chumash.

00:47:48.702 --> 00:47:54.312
And they're introducing you
to bird medicine in details.

00:47:54.992 --> 00:48:03.922
Can you give us a moment, a story an
experience of being shown that medicine?

00:48:05.352 --> 00:48:06.887
Can you share something with us?

00:48:11.957 --> 00:48:15.477
Kansas Carradine: Yeah, I mean, what's
coming to mind is my personal struggle

00:48:15.477 --> 00:48:19.287
at that time is I really felt like I
wanted to contribute more and I didn't

00:48:19.287 --> 00:48:25.497
know how, and I just wanted to contribute
and be a servant to Mother Earth.

00:48:26.107 --> 00:48:30.047
And my life seems so superficial
and meaningless at the time.

00:48:30.047 --> 00:48:35.557
So those present knew that that
was part of my heart's inquiry.

00:48:36.727 --> 00:48:42.867
And in just sitting and sharing I
think there was tobacco, but there

00:48:42.867 --> 00:48:46.647
was nothing else in terms of, you
know, plant medicine being offered.

00:48:46.647 --> 00:48:50.857
We would, I was taught how to
properly harvest sage with respect

00:48:50.927 --> 00:48:52.637
to not hurting the plant and.

00:48:52.972 --> 00:48:56.302
To pick very quickly and make sure
that we do it at the right time

00:48:56.302 --> 00:48:59.702
of day and having that respect and
honoring for the plant kingdom.

00:49:00.162 --> 00:49:04.202
And as we sat down and we would burn
sage and sitting in a very simple

00:49:04.542 --> 00:49:06.352
kind of, you know, shed with a lot of.

00:49:07.032 --> 00:49:10.572
Wings of birds around and
talons of different birds.

00:49:10.612 --> 00:49:13.732
And I was taught how
to groom the feathers.

00:49:14.322 --> 00:49:19.472
So I was given an eagle feather and
the care that you bring all of the part

00:49:19.472 --> 00:49:23.472
of the plumage back into alignment,
even now, anytime I find a feather,

00:49:23.812 --> 00:49:27.212
I'll always spend time, you know,
grooming it because the feather itself

00:49:27.212 --> 00:49:31.642
is an instrument for medicine to
be able to clear the etheric field.

00:49:32.797 --> 00:49:36.057
And in this inquiry that I had, we
had stayed up most of the night,

00:49:36.627 --> 00:49:42.317
and then I was taken outside
and shown, here is your answer.

00:49:42.347 --> 00:49:44.357
My answer was really,
how can I be of service?

00:49:44.847 --> 00:49:51.037
And the sky had exploded, and this is
just behind Ojai, but the sky had exploded

00:49:51.047 --> 00:49:58.307
into a sunrise that was so deep and pink
and orange that it was, in my opinion,

00:49:59.247 --> 00:50:07.327
the pointing of, The, you are always on
the path, you can never be off the path,

00:50:07.877 --> 00:50:14.377
and to just surrender this idea of a
particular right way of being of service,

00:50:14.407 --> 00:50:18.557
just to continue to show up and allow
yourself to be open and flow with that.

00:50:18.577 --> 00:50:21.447
That's the language that
I'm giving it to it now.

00:50:22.142 --> 00:50:24.962
But so much of our teachings and
so much of that is experiential.

00:50:24.962 --> 00:50:26.412
It's really beyond language.

00:50:27.012 --> 00:50:33.812
And then very soon after is when I had
the audition to go to Cavalia and even

00:50:33.812 --> 00:50:37.962
though it seemed like I was chasing
after a dangling carrot, there was

00:50:37.962 --> 00:50:42.252
something about being a part of that
company, that cast that really felt

00:50:42.252 --> 00:50:46.852
like it was on point and in alignment
with a service oriented mission.

00:50:47.372 --> 00:50:50.332
And although it was hard to let go of my.

00:50:50.742 --> 00:50:55.152
Connection to land and the, some of the
alliances and relationships that I had

00:50:55.152 --> 00:51:00.612
made, I ended up dropping everything
and never looking back and just putting

00:51:00.612 --> 00:51:03.532
myself fully into that next transition.

00:51:03.582 --> 00:51:06.502
It was like, everything was
being prepared to step me into

00:51:06.502 --> 00:51:08.312
that next transition that was.

00:51:08.922 --> 00:51:12.912
definitely more public and it was
more, there was more rigor involved

00:51:12.932 --> 00:51:17.702
because I had a schedule and we had to
show up six days a week and completely

00:51:17.702 --> 00:51:19.152
give over your entire life to that.

00:51:19.512 --> 00:51:23.922
Whereas before I was, I was very
I was very, very free for those

00:51:23.942 --> 00:51:25.852
few years right before I became.

00:51:26.337 --> 00:51:27.657
Contractually involved.

00:51:27.687 --> 00:51:30.097
Rupert Isaacson: How did the,
how did the audition happen for

00:51:30.097 --> 00:51:31.037
Kansas Carradine: Cavalia?

00:51:32.417 --> 00:51:39.407
I was contacted by my colleague from Riata
Ranch, and she said that she didn't have

00:51:39.407 --> 00:51:43.027
anybody else who was of age, and I was
already over 18, so I could audition.

00:51:43.037 --> 00:51:43.827
Was I interested?

00:51:44.307 --> 00:51:48.347
And Because the Riata Ranch is famous
for having truck riders, right?

00:51:48.347 --> 00:51:51.177
When Fred and Magalie were in
town, one of the first riders that

00:51:51.177 --> 00:51:52.337
they had had actually got injured.

00:51:52.347 --> 00:51:53.137
She broke her leg.

00:51:53.347 --> 00:51:54.617
They needed another girl.

00:51:55.087 --> 00:51:58.827
So they started asking around and if, you
know, if you ask anybody in California

00:51:58.827 --> 00:52:01.307
where to find a truck rider, everybody's
going to point you to Riata Ranch.

00:52:02.437 --> 00:52:05.677
And so I actually went up to Berkeley
if you spent time in the Bay Area.

00:52:06.797 --> 00:52:09.877
The set was the Cavalia
tent was set up there.

00:52:10.677 --> 00:52:12.447
I got, we brought a saddle.

00:52:12.797 --> 00:52:14.627
I was introduced to a horse.

00:52:15.037 --> 00:52:21.537
I did a back bend, which is for those
who don't know, it's a full bridge on a

00:52:21.537 --> 00:52:25.847
horse running at full speed that I didn't
know, which was nothing to me at the time.

00:52:25.847 --> 00:52:27.677
And I look back and I
think that's kind of funny.

00:52:28.327 --> 00:52:30.857
And then some Cossack drags where
you hang upside down and some

00:52:30.857 --> 00:52:32.117
vaults and things like this.

00:52:32.727 --> 00:52:38.267
And I met Fred and Magalie Delgado, Fred
Pignon and Magalie Delgado, and we Joked

00:52:38.267 --> 00:52:42.697
a bit because I had spent that time in
Avignon as well for Cheval Passion that

00:52:42.697 --> 00:52:43.957
we thought, oh, we had seen each other.

00:52:43.957 --> 00:52:45.637
We'd been performing in the same show.

00:52:46.007 --> 00:52:48.177
But then I went home and I didn't
hear anything for a long time.

00:52:48.177 --> 00:52:51.877
And it was the longest two weeks
of my life because I was still soul

00:52:51.877 --> 00:52:53.947
searching and still seeking meaning.

00:52:54.677 --> 00:52:59.837
And then when I got the call to join,
it was it just started this waterfall

00:52:59.837 --> 00:53:05.117
effect of momentum that everything
snowballed and my life took a trajectory

00:53:05.117 --> 00:53:08.827
that, that everything else has
been really governed by since then.

00:53:09.567 --> 00:53:10.437
Rupert Isaacson: Well, okay.

00:53:10.437 --> 00:53:13.712
So for those, for those, again,
for those listeners who don't

00:53:13.712 --> 00:53:15.557
know what Cavalia is, was.

00:53:16.112 --> 00:53:22.802
And, but who have seen perhaps equestrian
spectacles, equestrian spectaculars.

00:53:23.082 --> 00:53:23.902
I live in Germany.

00:53:23.902 --> 00:53:27.562
We have one that travels every year
called it's now called Cavaluna.

00:53:27.562 --> 00:53:28.892
It used to be called Apache.

00:53:28.892 --> 00:53:29.652
It's fantastic.

00:53:29.882 --> 00:53:31.512
I know, I know the people who.

00:53:32.637 --> 00:53:34.067
put together some of the classical teams.

00:53:34.357 --> 00:53:35.287
It's wonderful.

00:53:36.127 --> 00:53:37.707
I hate to say it.

00:53:37.787 --> 00:53:42.097
It's not quite as wonderful
as that first Cavalia show.

00:53:42.847 --> 00:53:44.037
There was some magic there.

00:53:44.127 --> 00:53:46.897
I want to ask you about that,
that you said that there was

00:53:46.897 --> 00:53:48.387
an element of ceremony to it.

00:53:48.987 --> 00:53:51.507
You said that also that you felt
there was an element of service.

00:53:52.497 --> 00:53:54.787
That wasn't, I have to
say, apparent to me.

00:53:54.817 --> 00:53:59.457
When I saw the show, I just saw
something that was Art in its purest

00:53:59.457 --> 00:54:04.947
form, so it was, that was very moving.

00:54:05.857 --> 00:54:10.327
So was the element of service
just the bringing of joy,

00:54:11.447 --> 00:54:12.897
which that show definitely got?

00:54:13.067 --> 00:54:16.757
Or was there, are you, was there
some other element of service

00:54:16.757 --> 00:54:16.982
Kansas Carradine: there?

00:54:17.602 --> 00:54:24.562
My way of defining service is also
that when we are willing to give

00:54:24.582 --> 00:54:27.582
that much of ourselves for other.

00:54:27.612 --> 00:54:29.692
So that's bringing joy without a doubt.

00:54:30.192 --> 00:54:34.892
But also when we look at the horses, you
know, some later on in life, when I met

00:54:34.912 --> 00:54:39.062
Ariana and you and I both met in that
kind of equine, therapeutic context,

00:54:39.532 --> 00:54:44.502
I questioned bringing horses into any
stall environment or any structured

00:54:44.502 --> 00:54:49.402
environment and then through my own self
inquiry and meditations and whatnot,

00:54:49.402 --> 00:54:54.172
I realized that they are performing a
tremendous act of service in allowing

00:54:54.172 --> 00:54:57.422
themselves to be in that ceremony.

00:54:57.912 --> 00:55:02.802
Going into urban environments and
giving those people from cities, just a

00:55:02.802 --> 00:55:07.072
little bit of a picture of what it was
like, or what it can be like, again,

00:55:07.072 --> 00:55:11.102
at the highest octave of experience
of right relationship between horse

00:55:11.102 --> 00:55:12.792
and man or interspecies relationship.

00:55:13.392 --> 00:55:16.872
So there could be an idea of,
like, I don't want to be involved

00:55:16.872 --> 00:55:21.852
in this because X, Y, Z, so you
really have to be willing to.

00:55:22.222 --> 00:55:22.962
Surrender.

00:55:22.962 --> 00:55:23.342
Okay.

00:55:23.342 --> 00:55:30.432
I'm going to give my entire life because
there's nothing else when you show up at

00:55:30.432 --> 00:55:34.592
eight in the morning and you finish near
to midnight every night, six days a week.

00:55:35.052 --> 00:55:38.802
And you're definitely not there for the
money and you're not there for even the

00:55:38.802 --> 00:55:42.702
glamour because it's really part of a
company, which is different than it's

00:55:42.702 --> 00:55:45.272
like when you go to a Cirque du Soleil
show, can you name anybody who was in it?

00:55:45.632 --> 00:55:45.952
Hmm.

00:55:47.212 --> 00:55:48.712
It's a different experience.

00:55:48.712 --> 00:55:52.822
You're there for the sake of the whole
and it was wonderful to be around

00:55:52.862 --> 00:55:57.722
you know, Fred and I felt so blessed
obviously to be in that environment.

00:55:57.722 --> 00:56:01.292
So I, I know that I was getting a
lot out of it, but when I look back

00:56:01.292 --> 00:56:06.172
on it, you know, I, I always was
trying to make sure that I could

00:56:06.172 --> 00:56:07.832
find ways that it was of service.

00:56:07.842 --> 00:56:10.432
So the other piece that came in.

00:56:10.432 --> 00:56:10.519
Okay.

00:56:11.347 --> 00:56:14.297
And I'm a bit, I was a bit naughty,
like you talked about me being naughty

00:56:14.567 --> 00:56:21.137
earlier on I was giving away tickets
oftentimes to my friends, like my Lakota

00:56:21.137 --> 00:56:25.497
friends, and to anybody who works with
different nonprofits and things like

00:56:25.497 --> 00:56:29.957
that, because we often had empty seats,
and they, our ticket sales would be low.

00:56:30.277 --> 00:56:34.817
And so I was always trying to find
ways to share that joy with others

00:56:34.987 --> 00:56:38.997
who wouldn't be able to pay for it
because it was an exclusive event.

00:56:38.997 --> 00:56:42.777
It's very much assigned with elitism,
as is the entire equestrian world.

00:56:43.547 --> 00:56:47.437
And so, part of my little way
of contributing was making sure

00:56:47.437 --> 00:56:51.057
that, you know, Choi and some of
the Shumash friends were able to

00:56:51.057 --> 00:56:52.667
come as well as Lakota friends.

00:56:52.937 --> 00:56:55.787
And then around the world, because
I was with that company for so long.

00:56:56.187 --> 00:57:00.447
There was a lot of nonprofits that
I was able to, to get into see that.

00:57:00.447 --> 00:57:05.407
And basically these are people who have
given their whole life to a humanitarian

00:57:05.407 --> 00:57:09.107
causes and they don't have enough
money to buy four tickets to bring

00:57:09.107 --> 00:57:10.747
their, their kids to come and see that.

00:57:11.187 --> 00:57:15.057
And so this was a way that I
was just an instrument to help

00:57:15.097 --> 00:57:16.677
facilitate such an experience.

00:57:17.997 --> 00:57:22.167
Rupert Isaacson: I think that was
I've only met Frederic Pinal and

00:57:22.197 --> 00:57:24.747
Magali Delgado a couple of times.

00:57:24.807 --> 00:57:26.457
I'm hoping to have them on
the show actually, because

00:57:26.457 --> 00:57:29.097
I met them at Ana last year.

00:57:29.367 --> 00:57:31.257
And I've gotta give them a
ring and hope to get them on.

00:57:31.557 --> 00:57:35.007
And what I, what I think I recognize
immediately, I, I also met them

00:57:35.617 --> 00:57:39.937
backstage at that show that I
described, and I was immediately struck.

00:57:40.087 --> 00:57:42.037
Obviously one was struck by them on stage.

00:57:42.607 --> 00:57:47.677
What was so interesting is you,
you're prepared for people to be

00:57:47.677 --> 00:57:52.027
assholes, you know, and I also like
you grew up all through university.

00:57:52.027 --> 00:57:54.787
I financed myself by riding on film sets.

00:57:55.297 --> 00:57:59.977
So I did that, you know, the endless
waiting around, but for great money,

00:57:59.987 --> 00:58:03.317
you know, and Then you do something for
five seconds on a horse and then you

00:58:03.317 --> 00:58:05.037
know, you can sort of pay off your rent.

00:58:05.047 --> 00:58:09.937
It's wonderful but you know, you you you
are as a you're basically an extra and

00:58:09.937 --> 00:58:14.437
so you're your lowest of the low on that
very hierarchical food chain that you

00:58:14.437 --> 00:58:17.637
have in the movie industries It's it's for
those people who haven't experienced it.

00:58:17.647 --> 00:58:22.007
It is, you know, people aren't very
nice to each other Basically, there's

00:58:22.057 --> 00:58:28.147
the you know, the power structures are
fairly military really but I And of

00:58:28.147 --> 00:58:31.427
course, you know, with the horse world
and the arrogance and snobbery that

00:58:31.427 --> 00:58:35.247
goes with it and I'm sorry, but I spent
a lot of time in France and the French

00:58:35.247 --> 00:58:38.787
can be awful with this particularly
the ones who ride really, really well.

00:58:39.177 --> 00:58:42.487
And as can the Germans, as can the Brits,
as can the Americans, as can all of us.

00:58:42.487 --> 00:58:42.677
Right.

00:58:42.867 --> 00:58:44.167
And I think all of us who've.

00:58:44.452 --> 00:58:52.332
Achieved a certain level of equestrian
mastery in one field or another have

00:58:52.332 --> 00:58:56.072
gone through an asshole phase and I think
those of us that don't admit it are lying.

00:58:56.742 --> 00:59:00.102
Because it's a painful memory and I
think something has to bring it because

00:59:00.102 --> 00:59:03.522
the problem with horses, I think, is
they give you power when you're on a

00:59:03.522 --> 00:59:07.322
horse or with a horse, you are bigger,
faster, stronger, more beautiful.

00:59:07.857 --> 00:59:10.207
All of these things, and you
can easily forget that this

00:59:10.227 --> 00:59:11.457
power is just being lent to you.

00:59:11.837 --> 00:59:14.127
And that you're really just, you're just
a monkey, you know, and as soon as you're

00:59:14.127 --> 00:59:15.767
off that horse, you go back to monkeydom.

00:59:16.277 --> 00:59:20.037
But you know, and all the mythology
around horses is obviously about

00:59:20.037 --> 00:59:24.787
freedom, dream, empowerment, and so on.

00:59:25.647 --> 00:59:29.277
And so it's, we know what power does
to humans, and it's impossible not to

00:59:29.277 --> 00:59:30.857
get seduced by that to some degree.

00:59:31.087 --> 00:59:32.497
But what brings you out
on the other side of it?

00:59:32.497 --> 00:59:33.197
And I think.

00:59:33.562 --> 00:59:37.742
That was immediately apparent to me
when I met Frédéric Pignon and, and

00:59:37.812 --> 00:59:42.162
and Magali was that they had somehow
managed to achieve this mastery

00:59:42.782 --> 00:59:44.012
without turning into arseholes.

00:59:45.182 --> 00:59:50.032
And that when you, when you met them they
just engaged with you in this very, very

00:59:50.052 --> 00:59:52.272
sweet and authentic and rather humble way.

00:59:52.932 --> 00:59:57.947
And I remember thinking, how did
you get There at that stage of my

00:59:57.947 --> 01:00:00.107
life, because I think at that stage
of my life, I wasn't quite there.

01:00:00.107 --> 01:00:03.177
I was right at the beginning of my
adventure with autism, just coming out

01:00:03.177 --> 01:00:06.597
of my adventure with human rights, my
first adventure with human rights, and I

01:00:06.597 --> 01:00:07.947
was still struggling with these things.

01:00:07.957 --> 01:00:12.767
So it, it, what do you think was the
special quality that those two brought?

01:00:13.737 --> 01:00:15.587
Well, where does it come from?

01:00:15.587 --> 01:00:16.547
Do you think it's just innate in them?

01:00:16.787 --> 01:00:17.537
Or have they did that?

01:00:17.567 --> 01:00:19.977
Is there some experience that they
went through that I don't know about?

01:00:19.987 --> 01:00:24.127
Or, you know, because you must have gone
for the audition and gone, Oh my gosh,

01:00:24.127 --> 01:00:26.437
these people are like, unlike anyone else.

01:00:26.977 --> 01:00:29.657
Who seems to be out there at
that end of the equestrian world.

01:00:29.937 --> 01:00:31.087
What's going on with this?

01:00:31.237 --> 01:00:32.137
What do you think it was?

01:00:33.087 --> 01:00:35.247
Kansas Carradine: Certainly, I mean,
I think the whole feel and the vibe

01:00:35.257 --> 01:00:38.897
of it was just so much more like
I said, compassionate in general.

01:00:39.247 --> 01:00:44.567
And back then, Fred was very much ahead of
his, you know, I can't really pinpoint it.

01:00:44.587 --> 01:00:46.717
I don't know enough
about Fred's background.

01:00:46.727 --> 01:00:49.397
I know that his
exploration, you'll find it.

01:00:49.782 --> 01:00:52.812
If you have them as a guest on the
show, but I know more about his

01:00:52.902 --> 01:00:57.512
exploration into Liberty was truly
living amongst and observing how the

01:00:57.512 --> 01:00:58.932
horses interacted with each other.

01:00:58.932 --> 01:01:02.712
And so when he is on stage, even
though he's the trainer, he's really

01:01:02.712 --> 01:01:07.972
another stallion with his stallions,
and he just embodies that in his play.

01:01:08.497 --> 01:01:13.867
And the vibe that we had around
the company is everybody truly

01:01:13.867 --> 01:01:15.577
felt privileged to be there.

01:01:15.977 --> 01:01:21.937
Everybody was so specialized in
their own section sector of mastery.

01:01:22.397 --> 01:01:25.517
There was definitely a huge amount
of ego and insecurities that would

01:01:25.517 --> 01:01:30.667
come up because everybody wants to
retain their, their, their position

01:01:31.297 --> 01:01:33.817
and at the same time, nobody
was there to compete with Fred.

01:01:34.227 --> 01:01:35.727
Nobody was there to compete with Magalie.

01:01:36.047 --> 01:01:39.237
Nobody was there to compete with
those people who were, you know,

01:01:39.337 --> 01:01:40.717
at the high level of their.

01:01:41.167 --> 01:01:45.297
Acrobatics or their Roman writing or their
bareback writing because they had hired

01:01:45.307 --> 01:01:47.687
all specialists in their own mastery.

01:01:47.967 --> 01:01:49.527
There wasn't a lot of.

01:01:51.212 --> 01:01:54.832
Competition in the normal sense, because
we all did something so different

01:01:55.472 --> 01:01:59.792
and it arose a little bit in certain
group ensembles and numbers like that.

01:02:00.022 --> 01:02:03.462
But ultimately, we were all respected
because we were, we had been in

01:02:03.462 --> 01:02:05.652
the industry and in the performance
world for a really long time.

01:02:05.682 --> 01:02:07.832
And so Fred and Magalie gave that respect.

01:02:08.102 --> 01:02:09.472
And of course, we had it in.

01:02:09.977 --> 01:02:13.487
10 fold for them, and they
respected the horses in such a way.

01:02:13.487 --> 01:02:17.277
And I think that that created,
they respected the stable hands and

01:02:17.277 --> 01:02:18.537
who the grooms were going to be.

01:02:18.797 --> 01:02:21.977
They really took consideration to make
sure that the people that they hired to be

01:02:21.977 --> 01:02:24.607
around the horses were also of a certain.

01:02:25.057 --> 01:02:26.467
We could say compassionate nature.

01:02:26.467 --> 01:02:27.937
They had a certain character about them.

01:02:27.937 --> 01:02:28.877
That was desirable.

01:02:29.267 --> 01:02:32.187
And so when there's that much
attention to detail to really create

01:02:32.187 --> 01:02:36.237
the entire staff and environment,
it really makes a difference.

01:02:36.277 --> 01:02:37.187
And it's true.

01:02:37.207 --> 01:02:40.247
That particular 1st show was
quite unique in that sense.

01:02:40.627 --> 01:02:44.217
You know, there was a lot of other that
ideals were still, I would say, at the

01:02:44.217 --> 01:02:49.747
top of future creative collaborative
efforts, but the same attention to detail

01:02:49.787 --> 01:02:55.607
was lacking when that captain of the
ship mastery was, was no longer there.

01:02:55.957 --> 01:02:56.737
And it made sense.

01:02:56.737 --> 01:03:00.287
I mean, they spent a good seven years on
tour and then wanted to go back to France.

01:03:00.812 --> 01:03:01.102
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:03:01.162 --> 01:03:03.637
So how long did you spend
with CarVal in the end?

01:03:05.357 --> 01:03:09.087
Kansas Carradine: I mean, it, I
started in 2004 and I was in China

01:03:09.087 --> 01:03:11.757
in 2020 putting a show together
that was supposed to open there.

01:03:11.757 --> 01:03:15.237
So I was with the company off and on for
many years in many different incarnations,

01:03:15.237 --> 01:03:18.897
whether as I was hired originally as
an artist and then I had a contract

01:03:18.947 --> 01:03:22.127
buying and training the truck riding
and Roman riding horses for the show.

01:03:22.667 --> 01:03:23.927
And then I would.

01:03:24.152 --> 01:03:25.952
Come in and out kind of as a backup.

01:03:25.952 --> 01:03:29.972
So somebody got injured and then they
call me in and I would be a replacement.

01:03:30.292 --> 01:03:32.502
And then I would help adopt horses.

01:03:32.932 --> 01:03:37.462
I was involved with shipping
horses overseas from a California

01:03:37.542 --> 01:03:43.402
operation, but by and large, the,
the, the, it spanned 15 years.

01:03:44.277 --> 01:03:46.897
And then my husband is
a creator with the show.

01:03:46.897 --> 01:03:50.827
So when I was, for example, on
extended maternity leaves and taking

01:03:50.827 --> 01:03:53.817
care of children and homeschooling,
and that was where I put all of my

01:03:53.817 --> 01:03:56.297
energy, I was still there on the tour.

01:03:56.577 --> 01:04:02.347
And my husband was there six days a week
curating the artistic vision, basically.

01:04:02.427 --> 01:04:04.747
So we were very intrinsically connected.

01:04:05.147 --> 01:04:05.337
And

01:04:05.357 --> 01:04:08.007
Rupert Isaacson: your kids, I presume,
grew up with that as a background.

01:04:09.217 --> 01:04:09.827
Kansas Carradine: They did.

01:04:09.847 --> 01:04:13.837
And the first time that I left tour was
because they weren't learning how to ride.

01:04:15.227 --> 01:04:18.127
And I was like, my kids don't know how
to ride and here I am on this horse show.

01:04:18.397 --> 01:04:21.417
And to be, you know, the
horses, they put so much effort.

01:04:21.597 --> 01:04:23.357
They didn't need to pack
around kids all the time.

01:04:23.657 --> 01:04:25.027
I didn't want to ask that of them.

01:04:25.057 --> 01:04:29.227
And we had a lot of hot horses that
were too much for, you know, a three

01:04:29.227 --> 01:04:30.177
year old, a five year old to get on.

01:04:30.827 --> 01:04:31.777
So I, that.

01:04:32.192 --> 01:04:35.412
Helped steer me to a
different incarnation.

01:04:36.512 --> 01:04:39.452
Rupert Isaacson: Do you feel that the,
because I never saw Cavalli again after

01:04:39.452 --> 01:04:44.932
that do you feel that that same sense
of compassion and service remained?

01:04:45.202 --> 01:04:47.062
Or do you think it was
at a high point at that?

01:04:47.627 --> 01:04:53.607
Particular watershed that I saw what, what
described that's a 15 year trajectory.

01:04:53.627 --> 01:04:56.837
It's a long time to keep something
like that going in a certain way

01:04:56.837 --> 01:05:00.147
because lots of personalities coming
in and out, you know, different

01:05:00.337 --> 01:05:01.937
incarnations, different human.

01:05:01.937 --> 01:05:03.307
So, so just, yeah.

01:05:05.542 --> 01:05:07.472
Kansas Carradine: I think it
was definitely at a high point.

01:05:07.492 --> 01:05:10.242
It was just a magical
moment in history also.

01:05:10.662 --> 01:05:16.602
And then there was the attempt to
try and recreate it, but bigger

01:05:17.212 --> 01:05:18.892
and bigger is not always better.

01:05:20.332 --> 01:05:22.142
It still had the ideals.

01:05:22.142 --> 01:05:27.752
And I think everybody who was able to be
a part of that vision felt truly honored.

01:05:28.262 --> 01:05:36.642
Because we had high principles and it's
a human effort to navigate toward a, a

01:05:36.702 --> 01:05:40.432
North star, or just like when you put in
your course and chart a course at sea,

01:05:40.782 --> 01:05:46.342
it's not in a straight line, but you're
guiding toward that, that intention toward

01:05:46.342 --> 01:05:48.052
that goal toward that higher vision.

01:05:48.792 --> 01:05:51.362
And so we all did our best.

01:05:52.017 --> 01:05:57.027
In the face of adversity, but there
was magic in the very beginning, and

01:05:57.047 --> 01:05:58.647
Fred and Magalie were a part of it.

01:05:58.727 --> 01:06:01.717
They were they are wonderful individuals.

01:06:02.617 --> 01:06:04.847
Rupert Isaacson: Right, and there
must have been a certain amount of

01:06:04.847 --> 01:06:07.397
that magic keeping going where you
wouldn't have stayed with it, I presume.

01:06:07.957 --> 01:06:08.617
Or your husband.

01:06:09.017 --> 01:06:11.517
Who I'd also like to have on the show,
because he's a very interesting chap.

01:06:12.107 --> 01:06:13.407
If he's, if he's, if he's willing.

01:06:13.867 --> 01:06:15.737
So, okay.

01:06:17.212 --> 01:06:21.122
I want to move ahead a little bit
now to another chapter in your life.

01:06:21.122 --> 01:06:25.792
So you then begin to work more
in the equine assisted field.

01:06:25.922 --> 01:06:29.192
And this is right about the
time that you and I cross paths.

01:06:29.652 --> 01:06:31.382
You run into someone
called Arianna Strozzi.

01:06:31.442 --> 01:06:34.832
Strozzi, I don't know how she
pronounces her Italian American.

01:06:35.042 --> 01:06:37.022
Kansas Carradine: She's now,
yeah, she's now Mizuchi.

01:06:37.712 --> 01:06:37.902
Okay.

01:06:38.402 --> 01:06:39.192
Or Mizuki, yeah.

01:06:39.252 --> 01:06:40.877
So Arizana Mizuki.

01:06:40.877 --> 01:06:41.382
Rupert Isaacson: Mizuki.

01:06:41.432 --> 01:06:42.942
I want you to tell us about that.

01:06:43.252 --> 01:06:45.002
And then from there into heart math.

01:06:45.372 --> 01:06:48.642
Heart math is something that I
feel everyone should know about in

01:06:48.662 --> 01:06:52.142
horseboy method, for example, when
we are doing what we call sensory

01:06:52.142 --> 01:06:55.892
work, which just came from the way
my son used to lay on the horses.

01:06:55.892 --> 01:07:00.172
And it was clear that his really
agitated behaviors would just go

01:07:00.382 --> 01:07:03.062
when he did that, when he was body
to body on the horse like that.

01:07:03.322 --> 01:07:07.632
And then much, much later after we'd
done it with a bazillion other people and

01:07:07.632 --> 01:07:11.252
seen the same result, we talk to people
at heart math and realize, Oh, I see.

01:07:11.282 --> 01:07:15.362
That was what was going on
with the residents of fields.

01:07:15.392 --> 01:07:18.112
But I don't want to, I think you
should talk about this because, you

01:07:18.112 --> 01:07:19.842
know, a lot more about it than I do.

01:07:21.052 --> 01:07:24.722
So There's something you
talked about service, and I

01:07:24.742 --> 01:07:25.872
read a little question here.

01:07:26.302 --> 01:07:32.382
Is self actualization
possible without service?

01:07:32.962 --> 01:07:38.072
And I think that it sounds like you
might have Reached again, another

01:07:38.082 --> 01:07:43.172
watershed moment where your life then,
perhaps through your own children,

01:07:43.172 --> 01:07:48.502
I don't know, gets taken in this
way towards a much more obviously

01:07:48.502 --> 01:07:52.192
service oriented, um, with autism.

01:07:52.192 --> 01:07:52.492
Talk to

01:07:52.492 --> 01:07:53.012
Kansas Carradine: us about that.

01:07:54.002 --> 01:07:57.282
Sure, the conversation about
service is one way to describe it.

01:07:57.282 --> 01:07:59.882
And then the other act is,
I would say selflessness.

01:08:00.362 --> 01:08:05.762
And so when I had children, this for
the first time really reoriented my

01:08:05.762 --> 01:08:11.662
entire world externally to these other
beings, as opposed to internally and

01:08:11.662 --> 01:08:13.632
just focusing on myself, my own needs.

01:08:13.962 --> 01:08:17.642
So for the first time, what parenting
brought me is the opportunity

01:08:17.642 --> 01:08:20.802
to know what it was like to at
moments really be truly selfless.

01:08:21.272 --> 01:08:24.702
Because it's very rare to find
in society of it, I would say.

01:08:25.372 --> 01:08:29.782
And these moments where you
really forget your sense of self.

01:08:30.627 --> 01:08:31.747
So there's two aspects of it.

01:08:31.747 --> 01:08:35.737
It's one is not being selfish or
the absence of conceit, we could

01:08:35.737 --> 01:08:41.067
say, but there's also a sense where
your beingness or your your limited

01:08:41.067 --> 01:08:47.147
perception of personality dissolve and
you're just thinking of being involved.

01:08:47.707 --> 01:08:51.707
In an act and an action that's
caring for, for other, and

01:08:51.707 --> 01:08:52.947
it can be caring for horses.

01:08:52.957 --> 01:08:54.227
It can be caring for land.

01:08:54.537 --> 01:08:58.347
It can be caring for just the energetic
resonance of the planet, which is

01:08:58.347 --> 01:08:59.677
what we do a lot in heart math.

01:09:00.357 --> 01:09:04.557
But really, that to me is a
flow exchanging going outward.

01:09:05.297 --> 01:09:05.827
And.

01:09:07.077 --> 01:09:13.247
I, I, I find that in my personal human
journey, there has been one layer

01:09:13.267 --> 01:09:18.987
of it or one avenue that has become
more established or perhaps like I'm

01:09:18.987 --> 01:09:23.317
looking at it as like the limbs of
a tree and one branch comes off and

01:09:23.317 --> 01:09:27.477
then it becomes really strong and
that bow can support a lot more fruit.

01:09:27.497 --> 01:09:30.837
And then there's another branch that also
becomes strong and then that bow can also

01:09:31.147 --> 01:09:33.047
in turn support fruit that nourishes.

01:09:34.227 --> 01:09:39.007
And so there's these different branches
of selflessness or branches of service

01:09:39.527 --> 01:09:42.797
that I never thought that I would
be able to, that have continued.

01:09:42.797 --> 01:09:47.987
It's like, I'm now doing performances
sometimes, but they're always for

01:09:48.017 --> 01:09:51.787
nonprofits to really generate interest,
to raise funds and do fundraising

01:09:51.787 --> 01:09:54.267
for other charity organizations.

01:09:55.017 --> 01:10:00.117
And when I was able to shift
this very strongly established

01:10:00.147 --> 01:10:03.857
pattern of wanting to receive
something from doing a performance.

01:10:03.867 --> 01:10:06.347
Like I want to meet my
metric of excellence.

01:10:06.837 --> 01:10:10.497
Then I would shift that into how can
I give, how can I, I want people to

01:10:10.497 --> 01:10:15.677
feel joy and to feel enthusiasm or
feel youthfulness or feel inspiration

01:10:16.017 --> 01:10:19.837
from watching this as opposed to
I want to tick my boxes so that I

01:10:19.847 --> 01:10:21.407
get appreciation and validation.

01:10:22.397 --> 01:10:23.147
So when that.

01:10:23.507 --> 01:10:26.897
Could shift and that took a long
time again, being a child performer.

01:10:26.897 --> 01:10:29.897
I wasn't hip to that in my twenties.

01:10:29.927 --> 01:10:31.387
I wasn't trying to transform it then.

01:10:31.387 --> 01:10:35.207
I didn't understand it the same way
that now it's really conscious effort

01:10:35.557 --> 01:10:39.967
so that even before weeks, months
before I start to do a show, I'm

01:10:39.967 --> 01:10:44.087
already starting to make sure that
the, the outflow of energy is really

01:10:44.407 --> 01:10:46.617
caring for whatever audience that is.

01:10:46.617 --> 01:10:47.377
It's going to show up.

01:10:48.107 --> 01:10:48.807
And then.

01:10:49.362 --> 01:10:53.022
My work in the nonprofit sector,
actually, it's an interesting

01:10:53.022 --> 01:10:57.352
segue came from my association with
HeartMath, which I learned Thank you.

01:10:58.142 --> 01:11:01.672
About over 20 years ago, before
I joined Cavalia in my spiritual

01:11:01.682 --> 01:11:06.742
seeking, I was actually at a spiritual
teachers gathering her satsangs.

01:11:06.802 --> 01:11:12.662
Her name is Gangaji, and she was
a disciple of an Indian mystic

01:11:12.662 --> 01:11:15.502
known as Papaji, who was a direct
disciple of Ramana Maharshi.

01:11:16.152 --> 01:11:17.202
And so that's that.

01:11:17.362 --> 01:11:18.122
that lineage.

01:11:18.122 --> 01:11:21.932
And that's that meeting, that
fated meeting of self inquiry,

01:11:21.942 --> 01:11:24.592
which I'll never forget is where
I first learned about HeartMath.

01:11:25.192 --> 01:11:29.582
And it was just kind of being
in the vortex of transformation.

01:11:29.952 --> 01:11:32.412
You know, this is when I was still
doing this work with the Shumash

01:11:32.762 --> 01:11:34.262
and right before I joined Cavalia.

01:11:34.302 --> 01:11:34.722
Go ahead.

01:11:35.682 --> 01:11:36.352
Rupert Isaacson: I've just got a question.

01:11:36.362 --> 01:11:39.002
A lot of people, listeners will
not know what HeartMath is.

01:11:39.002 --> 01:11:40.452
Please tell us what is HeartMath?

01:11:43.372 --> 01:11:44.532
Kansas Carradine: So, let's see.

01:11:45.752 --> 01:11:50.062
HeartMath itself is the name of a, of
an organization that has done a huge

01:11:50.062 --> 01:11:55.892
amount of research and the, the crux
of it really started to prove that

01:11:55.902 --> 01:11:58.112
our emotions affect our physiology.

01:11:58.972 --> 01:12:04.427
So, it began to study the Heart rate
variability, which is really the beat

01:12:04.437 --> 01:12:07.857
to beat changes that are emitted from
our heart, which is an electrical organ.

01:12:08.327 --> 01:12:12.617
And those subtle fluctuations,
depending on whether we're experiencing

01:12:12.617 --> 01:12:17.167
a renewing emotion, such as
appreciation, care, or compassion.

01:12:17.557 --> 01:12:21.907
And then what that looks like when
we're experiencing a depleting emotion

01:12:21.907 --> 01:12:26.077
or a feeling that is discordant,
such as frustration or anger.

01:12:26.547 --> 01:12:32.047
And through the research, the Institute
of HeartMath has been able to really

01:12:32.177 --> 01:12:38.657
prove, and we can see now with spectral
analysis, when we are in a flow state,

01:12:38.657 --> 01:12:44.667
when we are in a state of love and feeling
good, really in the zone, that actually

01:12:44.667 --> 01:12:47.027
creates an organization of our physiology.

01:12:47.067 --> 01:12:49.937
And the term that's been
used now is called coherence.

01:12:50.637 --> 01:12:51.717
So when we have that.

01:12:51.867 --> 01:12:54.057
That coherence, that aligned state.

01:12:54.497 --> 01:12:56.397
It's when we have optimal functioning.

01:12:56.667 --> 01:12:58.827
It's when there is an organization.

01:12:59.147 --> 01:13:02.827
I, I equate it to a 72 piece orchestra.

01:13:03.097 --> 01:13:07.937
It's the conductor that really maintains
the harmony and can modulate with those

01:13:08.257 --> 01:13:13.427
Allegro moments where you increase your
speed or your timing or your rhythm, as

01:13:13.427 --> 01:13:18.397
well as those moments that are appropriate
and dynamic to be able to come into.

01:13:19.382 --> 01:13:20.272
Quiet state.

01:13:20.552 --> 01:13:25.542
So this is a symbolism for really
a healthy nervous system that

01:13:25.542 --> 01:13:29.052
can both increase and be alert
and respond to the needs at hand

01:13:29.562 --> 01:13:31.272
and then be able to downregulate.

01:13:31.312 --> 01:13:35.462
And when there's no threat, no perceived
threat, and when things are calm, your

01:13:35.462 --> 01:13:40.362
nervous system can go into a state of
rest and digest or really that expanded

01:13:40.362 --> 01:13:43.702
state of, of, of awareness itself.

01:13:44.317 --> 01:13:48.477
So, the research that has come out of
the Institute of HeartMath has been often

01:13:48.477 --> 01:13:54.427
referenced by equine therapy programs,
as well as other, we could say kind of

01:13:54.497 --> 01:13:58.337
quantum healing modalities throughout the
world, because it's starting to prove.

01:13:58.672 --> 01:14:02.512
What intuitively we already knew is that
there's an energetic, there's a quantum

01:14:02.512 --> 01:14:03.712
field that we're all connected to.

01:14:03.712 --> 01:14:06.782
We're all broadcasting and we're
all receiving at the same time.

01:14:07.122 --> 01:14:12.572
So then when we can start to turn the
dial manually and really have a manual

01:14:12.572 --> 01:14:17.542
transmission on our own nervous system,
we can start to decide how we are showing

01:14:17.542 --> 01:14:21.752
up in the world, really how we are,
what we want to resonate, what frequency

01:14:21.752 --> 01:14:23.102
we really want to be aligned with.

01:14:23.482 --> 01:14:25.552
And that's through the
discovery of the last.

01:14:25.802 --> 01:14:31.222
Two decades what I've been more focused
on and now I see it as the foundational

01:14:31.242 --> 01:14:35.072
practice and horsemanship because once
we can attune ourselves, then we can.

01:14:35.817 --> 01:14:40.647
Really clear out any of the debris that
might be in the way of communication.

01:14:41.137 --> 01:14:46.137
And so to have that clear dialogue
is what helps eliminate confusion.

01:14:46.517 --> 01:14:50.507
And then we, we have those experiences
of harmony, both with our human

01:14:50.507 --> 01:14:53.797
to human relationships, as well as
our human to animal relationships.

01:14:54.507 --> 01:14:59.287
And the inquiry You know, heart math
was very much a part of my life,

01:14:59.317 --> 01:15:04.077
already had been for five years before
I started going into the equine therapy.

01:15:04.457 --> 01:15:09.647
So when I looked at the horse
as healer modalities, because it

01:15:09.657 --> 01:15:11.307
is another shamanic experience.

01:15:11.657 --> 01:15:15.697
I saw the, how heart math was so
complimentary, but I didn't really

01:15:15.697 --> 01:15:17.427
know how to merge at the time.

01:15:17.427 --> 01:15:19.077
I didn't really know
how to give it language.

01:15:19.487 --> 01:15:24.717
And I realized now that it's kind of
been one of the ways to really prove

01:15:24.717 --> 01:15:28.217
with science, what's going on when
we get in the energetic field with

01:15:28.217 --> 01:15:30.337
the heart, excuse me, with the horse.

01:15:30.847 --> 01:15:33.947
So your heart and my heart are both
producing a field that's measurable

01:15:33.947 --> 01:15:35.177
at least three to five feet.

01:15:35.817 --> 01:15:36.877
Secretariat's heart was.

01:15:37.212 --> 01:15:41.732
21 pounds, so the field that
is created and generated by

01:15:41.772 --> 01:15:43.772
the horses is so much greater.

01:15:44.332 --> 01:15:48.362
And when we step into that, we can
have what's called an entrainment.

01:15:48.982 --> 01:15:52.252
And there's that co regulation
and that synchronization together

01:15:53.622 --> 01:15:55.082
and that's the beauty of.

01:15:56.057 --> 01:16:01.487
Being able to know now why we
had so intimately been connected

01:16:01.487 --> 01:16:05.337
with horse medicine is really
what it is, why it's working.

01:16:05.527 --> 01:16:08.267
And I don't really care why,
but it is kind of fun to be

01:16:08.267 --> 01:16:09.697
able to give language to it now.

01:16:09.997 --> 01:16:11.297
I would trust it anyway.

01:16:11.297 --> 01:16:13.107
But

01:16:13.367 --> 01:16:14.997
Rupert Isaacson: it's good
to be able to explain it.

01:16:16.012 --> 01:16:19.152
Because, yeah, when one's working
with programs and I go through,

01:16:19.192 --> 01:16:23.012
you know, before we started working
with neuroscientists and who started

01:16:23.012 --> 01:16:25.962
looking at what we were doing with
horseboy method and movement method

01:16:26.202 --> 01:16:28.552
you know, we were always getting
those questions are basically people

01:16:28.552 --> 01:16:31.732
coming along and say, well, tell me
why this doesn't suck then you write.

01:16:31.732 --> 01:16:33.532
Well, you know, it's really good for you.

01:16:33.752 --> 01:16:36.372
But then as soon as the neuroscientists
started back, I said, like, well, you

01:16:36.372 --> 01:16:38.152
know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:16:38.352 --> 01:16:39.697
And that sort of ended that one.

01:16:40.227 --> 01:16:42.767
Nicely that why doesn't
it suck conversation?

01:16:42.767 --> 01:16:45.407
You could get onto more interesting
conversations So I think that's you

01:16:45.407 --> 01:16:48.647
know, one of the great benefits of
heart math just for again for listeners

01:16:48.687 --> 01:16:54.137
heart math is not an equestrian thing
But a lot of equestrian people end up

01:16:54.917 --> 01:16:58.337
attracted to it because when you're
talking about the electromagnetic

01:16:58.367 --> 01:17:02.727
fields of arts, we all know that we
feel really good around those great

01:17:02.757 --> 01:17:04.637
big hearts that are pumping in horses.

01:17:04.807 --> 01:17:05.697
Why wouldn't we?

01:17:06.087 --> 01:17:09.727
But it's, it goes further than
that towards other electromagnetic.

01:17:09.897 --> 01:17:15.887
Resonances like trees, like
other people, like just about

01:17:15.887 --> 01:17:18.147
everything else on the planet,
that's putting out energy, which is

01:17:18.387 --> 01:17:18.797
Kansas Carradine: everything.

01:17:18.897 --> 01:17:19.637
Exactly.

01:17:20.157 --> 01:17:23.827
The outreach of the institute
has gone to encompass all of that

01:17:23.857 --> 01:17:26.917
as well, because in the study.

01:17:27.357 --> 01:17:31.457
When we look at coherence and how
we affect each other there's a lot

01:17:31.477 --> 01:17:34.997
of, there's another, our branch of
the Institute of HeartMath called

01:17:34.997 --> 01:17:36.627
the Global Coherence Initiative.

01:17:36.957 --> 01:17:42.047
And now it's really studying our
impact as a collective, as well as

01:17:42.047 --> 01:17:47.397
the impact of trees and on nature and
what meditators can do in different

01:17:47.397 --> 01:17:51.647
clusters when we're sending care to
a specific situation and how that is

01:17:51.647 --> 01:17:53.317
reflected in the Earth's harmonics.

01:17:55.472 --> 01:17:59.722
There's just not enough I would
say data or instrumentation yet.

01:17:59.732 --> 01:18:02.472
We're just starting to gather all
of it to really show and prove,

01:18:02.772 --> 01:18:05.022
yes, your energy makes a difference.

01:18:05.042 --> 01:18:08.772
And yes, the collective energy can
also have an, have a huge impact.

01:18:09.592 --> 01:18:12.792
And so this is a really empowering
aspect because I think a lot of

01:18:12.802 --> 01:18:16.082
people, and I certainly have felt
this many times, we feel helpless.

01:18:16.592 --> 01:18:19.852
Whether it's in the environmental
care or whether it's working with

01:18:19.852 --> 01:18:24.022
humanitation issues time and time
again, and part of this is like.

01:18:24.112 --> 01:18:29.152
The really gathering of stories that
your impact your heart, your coherent

01:18:29.242 --> 01:18:32.162
resonance is an act of service.

01:18:33.912 --> 01:18:36.752
So able to maintain coherence
is an act of service.

01:18:36.752 --> 01:18:37.192
Go ahead.

01:18:37.322 --> 01:18:37.562
So

01:18:37.562 --> 01:18:38.482
Rupert Isaacson: people are interested.

01:18:38.522 --> 01:18:42.292
Presumably then you're saying heart
math is a place that you can go,

01:18:42.702 --> 01:18:47.352
whether physically or probably
online these days and get trained.

01:18:48.097 --> 01:18:50.107
What did they train you in?

01:18:50.177 --> 01:18:51.527
What do they train people in?

01:18:52.237 --> 01:18:56.137
Do you come out of it with a
hot math level one practitioner,

01:18:56.587 --> 01:18:57.637
level five practitioner?

01:18:57.637 --> 01:19:00.177
What, what, what does it look like?

01:19:00.267 --> 01:19:01.317
What did you do?

01:19:02.017 --> 01:19:03.087
What do people generally do?

01:19:03.087 --> 01:19:06.697
And then how did that take you into the
equine assisted sort of horses medicine,

01:19:06.897 --> 01:19:09.077
equestrian therapy, equine therapy?

01:19:09.377 --> 01:19:09.397
Kansas Carradine: Whoa.

01:19:11.627 --> 01:19:13.217
So there's a couple of
different questions in there.

01:19:13.227 --> 01:19:14.987
I'll answer the latter first.

01:19:15.017 --> 01:19:18.707
So what drew me is synchronicities
as with everything.

01:19:18.707 --> 01:19:19.857
There's breadcrumbs in life.

01:19:19.857 --> 01:19:23.297
And a dear friend of mine had said,
you should check out this person

01:19:23.297 --> 01:19:24.807
who's doing equine therapy work.

01:19:24.807 --> 01:19:25.897
You might find it interesting.

01:19:26.357 --> 01:19:29.677
And little did I know that Arianna
Strozzi would become like family.

01:19:29.677 --> 01:19:31.587
There was just a soul
family connection there.

01:19:32.172 --> 01:19:37.742
As I mentioned earlier, I moved in and did
the apprenticeship for, for some time now.

01:19:37.742 --> 01:19:41.952
I had already been working with heart
math and learning about it as my own

01:19:41.952 --> 01:19:46.352
personal tool for self development and
to deal with depression and anxiety.

01:19:47.042 --> 01:19:50.142
So, as a younger person, I had
more symptoms of depression.

01:19:50.832 --> 01:19:50.852
So

01:19:51.392 --> 01:19:55.162
Rupert Isaacson: you moved in you moved in
with Arianna Strozzi You felt her as you

01:19:55.162 --> 01:19:56.742
you started an apprenticeship with her.

01:19:56.952 --> 01:19:58.302
What apprenticeship did you start?

01:19:59.492 --> 01:20:04.572
Kansas Carradine: I did so really
studying always being drawn to the horse

01:20:04.592 --> 01:20:09.322
medicine and because I had already been
introduced to Native American wisdom

01:20:09.322 --> 01:20:13.182
and understanding there's plant medicine
and there's The rock people and there's

01:20:13.642 --> 01:20:18.822
the medicine from each and every animal
and from the feathers themselves.

01:20:18.922 --> 01:20:25.142
So this exploration, this deep dive,
we could say into the equine therapy

01:20:25.142 --> 01:20:29.372
world for me was really assigning
meaning to that, which I had already.

01:20:30.092 --> 01:20:34.232
Dedicated so much of my life to,
I wanted to find what really is in

01:20:34.242 --> 01:20:36.262
the relationship with the equine.

01:20:36.542 --> 01:20:41.392
And I went through, you know, a deep soul
inquiry of, can we ever ride horses again?

01:20:41.412 --> 01:20:42.842
Is that truly right relationship?

01:20:43.392 --> 01:20:44.862
Should they be installed at all?

01:20:44.982 --> 01:20:46.502
I had a very difficult.

01:20:47.127 --> 01:20:51.697
Judgment about that for some time
and then the way that I rectified it.

01:20:51.697 --> 01:20:54.337
Rupert Isaacson: What, what, what,
what, at what point did that happen?

01:20:54.507 --> 01:20:58.307
Because was it just having
horses in stores for seven years

01:20:58.307 --> 01:20:59.557
going around doing the show?

01:21:00.677 --> 01:21:04.547
Because the horses seemed in Cavale
to be actually full of well being.

01:21:05.197 --> 01:21:06.727
So, what, what, what is it, what, what?

01:21:08.067 --> 01:21:11.087
Kansas Carradine: So because I had
been exposed to horses almost always

01:21:11.117 --> 01:21:15.797
being in a work environment or being
in a stable environment, I had not

01:21:15.797 --> 01:21:19.727
been around them as much when they
were free and able to live in a herd

01:21:20.037 --> 01:21:21.677
and specifically as a family herd.

01:21:22.077 --> 01:21:23.967
And that's something
that Ariana showed me.

01:21:23.967 --> 01:21:26.697
And once I saw it, I was,
it was so compelling.

01:21:27.037 --> 01:21:31.757
It was so powerful to see these natural
family herds and to see them all living

01:21:31.757 --> 01:21:33.817
on very steep terrain, which we would.

01:21:34.207 --> 01:21:39.807
Be worried and be an overcare of our short
horses, you know, so that created such a.

01:21:40.252 --> 01:21:44.442
A strong catalyst within me
that I thought, Oh, that's, it

01:21:44.442 --> 01:21:46.982
was like throwing out the baby
with the bathwater at the time.

01:21:46.982 --> 01:21:51.762
That's where my naivete was is saying,
how could I put any horse in stalls?

01:21:51.772 --> 01:21:53.972
Look at what they really
belong to be free.

01:21:54.212 --> 01:21:59.472
And, and at the same time, I had a
vision to create a show that was.

01:21:59.937 --> 01:22:06.757
Really extrovert and explicit
about its ceremonial aspects where

01:22:06.767 --> 01:22:08.437
the herd would be brought in.

01:22:08.697 --> 01:22:09.937
It would be outside.

01:22:09.947 --> 01:22:14.547
It would depict more of a Native
American environment with with horses.

01:22:14.547 --> 01:22:22.027
So, because I had that as my, as my apex
of the experience of being with horses, I.

01:22:22.752 --> 01:22:27.032
Had the pendulum swinging this this other
way and then through inquiry and through

01:22:27.032 --> 01:22:30.702
understanding and through really deep
journaling and inquiry with the horses.

01:22:30.722 --> 01:22:35.582
I saw their tremendous active
devotion and service to be.

01:22:35.722 --> 01:22:37.472
People will say, well, the
horses don't have a choice.

01:22:38.382 --> 01:22:43.252
And I believe that on a soul level,
each soul is really being brought into,

01:22:43.472 --> 01:22:48.662
relationship with each other, whether
it's interspecies that they do certainly

01:22:48.662 --> 01:22:53.022
come into that incarnation, that
embodiment and they go into the cities

01:22:53.062 --> 01:22:56.032
and they awaken the hearts of humanity.

01:22:56.192 --> 01:22:58.452
It's really no, nothing less than that.

01:22:59.322 --> 01:23:02.612
And so I would agree to learn more about.

01:23:03.092 --> 01:23:04.592
Yeah, to learn more about the magic.

01:23:04.592 --> 01:23:07.812
That's why I was drawn to the equine
therapy work, but I was insecure at

01:23:07.812 --> 01:23:11.302
the time and didn't feel like I knew
enough or had enough life experience to

01:23:11.302 --> 01:23:15.912
really carry and facilitate on my own
and make that the forefront of my offer.

01:23:16.402 --> 01:23:20.262
Ariana to me was such a shaman, you know,
how can you just take a certification for

01:23:20.262 --> 01:23:25.242
a couple of weeks and then think that you
are going to have that same magic really.

01:23:25.582 --> 01:23:27.762
So I never, I didn't.

01:23:28.732 --> 01:23:32.942
Right away, start to make that my, my
offer and I went back into the performance

01:23:32.942 --> 01:23:38.182
world, which I knew how, and then I was
still using HeartMath always as my own

01:23:38.372 --> 01:23:43.252
really tool for therapy and understanding
how to regulate my own emotional landscape

01:23:44.012 --> 01:23:50.892
and I became certified in HeartMath for,
to be a private coach back in 2011 and at

01:23:50.892 --> 01:23:57.212
the time that was the way that you would
offer it was really one on one and I also

01:23:57.212 --> 01:23:58.772
didn't do anything with it at that time.

01:23:58.772 --> 01:24:02.352
So even though my life externally seemed
like I was, it was glamorous and I was

01:24:02.352 --> 01:24:06.572
confident and I can hang and be brave
upside down on horses, I was still.

01:24:06.892 --> 01:24:12.462
Insecure and not confident
to be what one might term as.

01:24:13.047 --> 01:24:15.117
A spiritual guide or a coach for others.

01:24:15.957 --> 01:24:21.657
It took me another 15 years really to
get enough life experience and to have

01:24:21.687 --> 01:24:26.787
other shifts taking PLA in place in my
psyche that I could be rooted enough to

01:24:26.787 --> 01:24:28.707
really be able to hold space for others.

01:24:29.257 --> 01:24:33.127
And that was just part of like
ma the making of wine or just

01:24:33.127 --> 01:24:35.847
the, the curating of ripeness.

01:24:35.847 --> 01:24:35.907
Yeah.

01:24:36.427 --> 01:24:37.237
Maturation.

01:24:37.872 --> 01:24:39.492
to change about the maturation.

01:24:39.502 --> 01:24:40.082
Exactly.

01:24:40.692 --> 01:24:47.712
And so now since COVID, I was again,
really forced into a pivot and I became

01:24:47.712 --> 01:24:52.522
a HeartMath certified trainer, which
basically means that you can teach tools,

01:24:53.002 --> 01:24:57.642
the techniques, and a lot of it has to
start with a foundational practice that

01:24:57.652 --> 01:25:02.292
is breathwork and really understanding
that when we Actively set the intention

01:25:02.292 --> 01:25:06.042
to co create with our heart and to
breathe into the heart and chest area.

01:25:06.722 --> 01:25:12.892
Then that right away begins to activate
the neurons that exist within our hearts.

01:25:13.472 --> 01:25:17.252
And there's a facilitation that
begins to create again that

01:25:17.252 --> 01:25:18.842
synchronization, that coherence.

01:25:19.352 --> 01:25:22.652
And then there's other
tools that build upon that.

01:25:22.702 --> 01:25:29.492
And it's really focusing on how to start
to perceive our own somatic Perceptions or

01:25:29.492 --> 01:25:35.072
our somatic feelings as well as being able
to consciously direct our frequency and

01:25:35.072 --> 01:25:40.332
being aware of how what we are, how we are
broadcasting, what we are broadcasting.

01:25:40.752 --> 01:25:44.292
And then with that, with that
awareness, we, we discuss about

01:25:44.297 --> 01:25:47.412
how to make modulations or how
to make attunements and shifts,

01:25:48.032 --> 01:25:48.762
Rupert Isaacson: okay.

01:25:48.872 --> 01:25:51.872
You talked about, you just said something
there, you said neurons in your heart.

01:25:51.922 --> 01:25:56.002
I think a lot of listeners may be
aware, but perhaps some are not.

01:25:56.472 --> 01:26:00.702
Just as a context for that your
gut, your heart and your brain

01:26:00.702 --> 01:26:02.322
are all composed of neurons.

01:26:02.322 --> 01:26:07.142
It used to be thought that the neurons
were just all the preserve of the brain.

01:26:07.322 --> 01:26:08.122
It's not true at all.

01:26:08.422 --> 01:26:11.572
And it's just, I just wanted to chuck that
in there because if someone's listening

01:26:11.572 --> 01:26:13.092
to something like this for the first time.

01:26:13.732 --> 01:26:14.052
What?

01:26:14.122 --> 01:26:14.422
Hold on.

01:26:14.492 --> 01:26:15.132
Neurons in the heart?

01:26:15.322 --> 01:26:16.302
Yes, indeed.

01:26:16.412 --> 01:26:17.212
Heart, brain.

01:26:17.232 --> 01:26:20.092
So you could argue it's all one brain
or it's three brains or whatever, but

01:26:20.362 --> 01:26:24.532
that's why gut feelings, that's why heart
feelings, that's why These things are, you

01:26:24.532 --> 01:26:28.992
know, as valid as the intellect, if not
more so, and the intellect without them

01:26:29.032 --> 01:26:35.552
is limited because it's not the full thing
happening that the neurons can offer.

01:26:36.052 --> 01:26:38.772
Again, also for people that I
should have, I should have also

01:26:38.772 --> 01:26:44.322
said Ariana Storzi, now Mizuki, it's
that's the Sky Horse Academy, right?

01:26:44.477 --> 01:26:47.947
Why, what, and I hope to, I'd love
to get her on the show actually,

01:26:48.177 --> 01:26:52.987
what, what is it about that because,
because, you know, there's been a

01:26:53.047 --> 01:26:55.357
ton of equine assisted offerings.

01:26:55.357 --> 01:26:56.127
There still are.

01:26:56.197 --> 01:26:56.907
It's a good thing.

01:26:57.067 --> 01:27:00.407
You know, there ought to be, but what
was it about that particular one?

01:27:00.482 --> 01:27:03.172
Absolutely.

01:27:03.732 --> 01:27:06.792
Kansas Carradine: I, these questions
that you ask, ultimately, I go a

01:27:06.792 --> 01:27:09.082
lot of intuition and synchronicity.

01:27:09.152 --> 01:27:12.022
So, you know, it's being in the right
place at the right time, doing the right

01:27:12.022 --> 01:27:16.422
thing with the right people for the right
reasons, a lot of rights and alignments.

01:27:17.142 --> 01:27:20.822
And I didn't know until I got in
there, it was just a feeling, right?

01:27:20.862 --> 01:27:22.192
I wrote a letter to Ariana.

01:27:22.402 --> 01:27:26.162
She invited me in as soon
as we saw each other.

01:27:26.692 --> 01:27:27.222
So I was.

01:27:27.607 --> 01:27:32.187
As I mentioned a little bit earlier,
a dear friend of mine, he was actually

01:27:32.187 --> 01:27:38.197
interested in her partner's book,
where he was teaching Aikido to

01:27:38.417 --> 01:27:43.997
military and when he was looking at
this person, Richard Strozzi Heckler.

01:27:44.567 --> 01:27:47.887
He learned about Arianna and how she had
a horse ranch with self development and

01:27:47.887 --> 01:27:49.087
he said, Oh, you should check it out.

01:27:49.597 --> 01:27:53.307
And so when I started to explore, and
this is back in 2008, and I'd already

01:27:53.307 --> 01:27:57.257
had my first daughter and I just left
the Cavalia tour for the first time,

01:27:57.687 --> 01:28:00.537
did have a break back in California
after being all around the world.

01:28:01.187 --> 01:28:05.817
And then I went out there and when
we met, it was like, Oh, she, what

01:28:05.827 --> 01:28:08.997
the way she describes it as, Oh,
we'll be in the foxhole together.

01:28:09.152 --> 01:28:15.062
You know, we have probably many
births together and there was just,

01:28:15.072 --> 01:28:17.122
it was family and it still is.

01:28:17.182 --> 01:28:19.262
And we're very dear to each other.

01:28:19.262 --> 01:28:21.622
And I ended up moving in with my family.

01:28:21.622 --> 01:28:24.582
They're living on the ranch for
several years and helping to co

01:28:24.582 --> 01:28:27.822
facilitate the programs and really
just spending time, you know, deep.

01:28:28.307 --> 01:28:29.897
And I always say at
the feet of the master.

01:28:30.227 --> 01:28:34.577
And to answer your question, what makes
equine guided education is that model.

01:28:34.627 --> 01:28:38.627
There's so many different acronyms
and Arianna was at the forefront of

01:28:38.697 --> 01:28:43.007
a lot of the, the name building and
all the certification programs that

01:28:43.007 --> 01:28:44.857
were being developed at the time.

01:28:45.277 --> 01:28:49.617
And she always said, I hope there's a day
when there's an equine guided educator or

01:28:49.617 --> 01:28:51.877
an equine assisted facilitator, whatever.

01:28:52.757 --> 01:28:56.127
Acronyms you want to use on every
corner, just like you can always

01:28:56.127 --> 01:29:00.127
find a chiropractor and acupuncturist
that it will really serve the needs

01:29:00.497 --> 01:29:06.137
and I just feel really fortunate to
have seen that arc as we were all

01:29:06.157 --> 01:29:07.547
in the beginning of it together.

01:29:07.797 --> 01:29:11.817
So the difference that I would
say, or the uniqueness is Ariana,

01:29:11.887 --> 01:29:13.427
it's not exclusive to horses.

01:29:13.987 --> 01:29:18.267
It really is opening up to the
entire natural world and observation.

01:29:18.607 --> 01:29:24.497
You will have messages from the wind
and from The rabbit that comes through

01:29:24.807 --> 01:29:28.227
and the way that the sun passes,
that's all part of the equine guided

01:29:28.227 --> 01:29:33.527
experience, the integration of equine
therapy, really understanding that

01:29:33.527 --> 01:29:38.327
that's just the entry point into being in
relationship with the whole natural world.

01:29:38.437 --> 01:29:38.867
Right?

01:29:38.997 --> 01:29:39.277
Rupert Isaacson: Yeah.

01:29:39.387 --> 01:29:39.597
Yeah.

01:29:39.667 --> 01:29:41.577
The horses bring us into nature for sure.

01:29:42.137 --> 01:29:46.007
What are you doing with sky
horse currently and heart math?

01:29:46.367 --> 01:29:47.867
Where is this led you now?

01:29:48.247 --> 01:29:48.957
As we speak.

01:29:49.197 --> 01:29:51.437
You also mentioned that you
do do some performances.

01:29:51.437 --> 01:29:53.047
What kind of performances
are you doing now?

01:29:53.217 --> 01:29:54.197
And how's all that integrated?

01:29:55.567 --> 01:29:59.257
Kansas Carradine: Sure, I still
perform my lasso, which I can

01:29:59.257 --> 01:30:03.537
bring my ropes anywhere, and, you
know, there's actually a name in

01:30:03.677 --> 01:30:07.737
the Divine Mothers where she who's
holding the rope of love in her hand.

01:30:07.737 --> 01:30:12.947
So the rope of love is the Divine Mother's
way of really connecting all of us.

01:30:13.397 --> 01:30:17.497
You know, it's really in spiral
movements that the lasso moves around.

01:30:17.497 --> 01:30:21.797
So I still perform lasso with my
children and it'll, I can be hired.

01:30:21.897 --> 01:30:25.327
Oftentimes I'm only giving
it to charity organizations.

01:30:25.337 --> 01:30:28.527
So as part of a fundraiser, that's
kind of been the thing that's

01:30:28.527 --> 01:30:29.797
happened over the last few years.

01:30:30.417 --> 01:30:33.787
And then I haven't had horses because
I travel so much and because I really

01:30:33.787 --> 01:30:40.447
have devoted a lot of my life to the
spiritual journey and means that.

01:30:40.677 --> 01:30:44.987
I'm always riding for other people
or riding with other people, and

01:30:44.987 --> 01:30:47.687
it's a great opportunity because
I ride so many different horses.

01:30:48.167 --> 01:30:52.777
So I don't have my own trick riding
horses that I perform on, but last summer

01:30:52.777 --> 01:30:56.557
I made, I don't know, three or four
Roman, Roman riding teams at different.

01:30:56.807 --> 01:31:01.167
Barns and different stable stables
and different causes, and really the

01:31:01.167 --> 01:31:07.447
bulk of my work has now become the
EGE philosophy that's been threaded

01:31:07.452 --> 01:31:08.527
throughout everything that I do.

01:31:08.527 --> 01:31:11.497
So that's equine guided education,
working with skyhorse as a,

01:31:12.057 --> 01:31:13.797
as a, an instructor basically.

01:31:14.397 --> 01:31:18.807
And I do private coaching as well as
group retreats with integrating the

01:31:18.807 --> 01:31:23.487
HeartMath and horsemanship and the
equine guided education philosophy.

01:31:24.257 --> 01:31:25.277
What I find.

01:31:25.612 --> 01:31:28.872
Lately is a lot of people who want to
have a better connection with their

01:31:28.872 --> 01:31:35.082
horses are carrying some sort of residual
trauma or residual guilt or shame that

01:31:35.162 --> 01:31:37.372
get it's an impediment to connection.

01:31:37.892 --> 01:31:40.922
And so 1 of the 1st things we do
is I will guide people into their

01:31:40.932 --> 01:31:45.152
hearts and through some basic breath,
working practices breath, work

01:31:45.152 --> 01:31:47.642
practices that will help to open up.

01:31:48.037 --> 01:31:49.367
A compassionate space.

01:31:49.827 --> 01:31:55.447
And that compassionate frequency
will allow for any sort of emotional

01:31:55.977 --> 01:32:00.627
residual energy to be spun off or to
be let go of, and just really create

01:32:00.627 --> 01:32:02.627
that sacred container, that safe space.

01:32:02.977 --> 01:32:09.067
And then the interactions with the, with
their horses can really take a new form.

01:32:09.367 --> 01:32:14.217
They can expand beyond, because there's
not those old patterns or stories that

01:32:14.217 --> 01:32:17.137
might be still holding back into the past.

01:32:17.437 --> 01:32:22.117
And that really helps, whether it's
working on groundwork, or wanting

01:32:22.117 --> 01:32:24.977
to do something with liberty, or
doing mounted exercises, either in

01:32:24.987 --> 01:32:28.977
dressage, or in you know, reigning
cowhorse, whatever the desire is.

01:32:30.017 --> 01:32:35.817
It doesn't matter, but first rooting in
what is the frequency that is desired.

01:32:36.372 --> 01:32:39.572
And then the discipline or then
the technique can be applied

01:32:39.592 --> 01:32:42.832
after the attunement has happened
in the vibrational realm.

01:32:43.912 --> 01:32:44.222
Rupert Isaacson: So.

01:32:44.652 --> 01:32:48.682
If somebody wants to, are you, for
example, I'm looking at you over Zoom,

01:32:49.032 --> 01:32:52.572
and I know you're in California currently,
are you at Skyhorse Ranch now, where

01:32:52.572 --> 01:32:56.537
are you, and if somebody wants to come
and do these things with you, where do

01:32:56.537 --> 01:33:00.962
they, you go into where they are, or
they come to a place where you are, how

01:33:00.962 --> 01:33:01.432
Kansas Carradine: does it work?

01:33:02.187 --> 01:33:02.717
Yeah.

01:33:02.767 --> 01:33:04.947
I go to, to where I'm invited.

01:33:04.947 --> 01:33:08.157
So I still have been living
this, you know, circus

01:33:08.167 --> 01:33:10.307
cowgirl, gypsy life lifestyle.

01:33:10.637 --> 01:33:11.837
And so I travel quite a bit.

01:33:11.847 --> 01:33:14.357
I mean, I did, we haven't talked about
that at all, but I did just come back

01:33:14.357 --> 01:33:17.997
from the Patagonia where I spent the last
month connecting with the gaucho horses.

01:33:19.437 --> 01:33:23.057
And so that is, has been its own
other amazing shamanic experience.

01:33:23.457 --> 01:33:27.097
But I will be at Skyhorse this
summer doing programs with Ariana.

01:33:27.407 --> 01:33:32.587
There's a few clinics that'll be
throughout California and then a base out

01:33:32.587 --> 01:33:39.237
of Canada, but really wherever there's
an invitation and honestly, it's, it's

01:33:39.237 --> 01:33:41.037
much more of following the energy.

01:33:41.267 --> 01:33:44.807
And that's also a principle of equine
guided education that in Ariana's

01:33:44.857 --> 01:33:48.637
apprenticeship, it was like, where is
there energy and where's there's not.

01:33:48.787 --> 01:33:51.987
And when there's a flow, and right now
there's been a huge amount of energy,

01:33:51.987 --> 01:33:55.457
just bringing me back to my homeland,
back to California, where I've been

01:33:55.857 --> 01:33:57.667
distanced from for quite some time.

01:33:58.247 --> 01:34:02.007
So I've been coming back and connecting
with the land here and really finding

01:34:02.007 --> 01:34:07.317
myself in all kinds of wonderful little
neighborhoods and stables and these.

01:34:07.332 --> 01:34:11.462
pods, if you will, these circles of
connection, circles of compassion,

01:34:11.902 --> 01:34:15.932
and to continue to just facilitate
so that we can let go of the judgment

01:34:15.932 --> 01:34:20.002
that we have that gets in the way and
be compassionate for our own journey.

01:34:20.232 --> 01:34:23.362
You know, the horses are so
infinitely compassionate.

01:34:23.802 --> 01:34:24.742
We make mistakes.

01:34:24.742 --> 01:34:25.962
We're going to be clumsy.

01:34:25.972 --> 01:34:28.092
We're going to do things
without proper timing.

01:34:28.747 --> 01:34:33.137
And oftentimes just acknowledging
that and allowing people to really

01:34:33.137 --> 01:34:37.687
rest in that compassionate latitude,
that's a huge healing in and of itself.

01:34:37.727 --> 01:34:40.797
And so my greatest joy is to
help facilitate those moments.

01:34:42.747 --> 01:34:45.477
Rupert Isaacson: So, Patagonia and India.

01:34:45.672 --> 01:34:49.182
Kansas Carradine: So

01:34:49.762 --> 01:34:52.082
Rupert Isaacson: last year, you
know, we all know, right, that we're

01:34:52.092 --> 01:34:55.472
at war, unfortunately, I'm sitting
here in Germany, we're at war,

01:34:56.312 --> 01:34:58.052
and it's war is in Europe again.

01:34:58.842 --> 01:34:59.992
And it really is.

01:35:00.367 --> 01:35:06.447
I'm sitting, oh, just 200 meters from
where there's, I don't know, quite

01:35:06.447 --> 01:35:10.747
a bunch of Ukrainian families and,
you know, we know what's going on.

01:35:11.087 --> 01:35:17.057
And you found yourself in India
doing something rather extraordinary

01:35:17.107 --> 01:35:21.797
at this historic moment last year.

01:35:21.797 --> 01:35:22.957
Please talk to us about that.

01:35:23.017 --> 01:35:23.757
What did you do?

01:35:24.057 --> 01:35:25.087
And why, how did you end up

01:35:25.257 --> 01:35:25.287
Kansas Carradine: there?

01:35:27.497 --> 01:35:33.107
So part of the service oriented outreach
of HeartMath and specifically with a

01:35:33.107 --> 01:35:37.237
group called the Heart Ambassadors that
I've been involved with for over a decade

01:35:37.747 --> 01:35:45.757
is outreach internationally, both for
helping improve the status of women, as

01:35:45.787 --> 01:35:50.407
well as working to teach emotional self
regulation to children, street children,

01:35:50.427 --> 01:35:53.237
and Also teaching sustainable agriculture.

01:35:53.237 --> 01:35:56.977
So there's a lot of different
avenues and all of those.

01:35:58.837 --> 01:36:05.057
Aspects, all of those projects really
came together for an opportunity to

01:36:05.067 --> 01:36:10.027
discuss and to give back for the G20
that took place in India last year.

01:36:10.337 --> 01:36:15.677
So I went along as the delegate for
the FIERA Foundation and for Heart

01:36:15.677 --> 01:36:21.611
Ambassadors, we presented along with
my daughter, which was amazing because

01:36:21.611 --> 01:36:23.872
it was actually her inclination that.

01:36:24.782 --> 01:36:27.002
That we went, I thought that she was
going to be going with a different

01:36:27.002 --> 01:36:29.472
chaperone and we couldn't find one.

01:36:29.482 --> 01:36:32.162
And so I ended up going along with her.

01:36:33.272 --> 01:36:37.222
So the first summit that we attended was
integrated holistic health and teaching

01:36:37.222 --> 01:36:41.972
about heart math principles and how
that can actually remove bias that is

01:36:41.972 --> 01:36:47.322
so present because a lot of the data
that we have is also very gender biased.

01:36:47.882 --> 01:36:52.022
At the same time, being able to have
integrated holistic health to be able to

01:36:52.022 --> 01:36:57.602
merge both Western and, you know, Arya
Vedic and other holistic principles is

01:36:57.642 --> 01:37:02.182
part of where the conversations were
being steered in that particular summit.

01:37:02.602 --> 01:37:07.012
Then we also were participating
in the gender equality summit and.

01:37:07.587 --> 01:37:12.437
Creating policy declaration and across
the board, whether it was digital

01:37:12.457 --> 01:37:16.657
technology and security, whether it was
education or the net zero targets where

01:37:16.657 --> 01:37:20.867
we attended the programs that were in
Sikkim, which is the northern part of

01:37:20.877 --> 01:37:27.877
India, close to the border of Nepal,
Bhutan and China, Tibet, every single

01:37:28.087 --> 01:37:35.707
sector said that mental health was at the
top of their list of concern and One of

01:37:35.707 --> 01:37:40.327
the things that we were advocating for
was the acknowledgement for emotional

01:37:40.327 --> 01:37:43.827
self regulation, both at the highest
levels in government organizations, as

01:37:43.827 --> 01:37:50.657
well as the being at the foundation for
education in schools and employment.

01:37:51.207 --> 01:37:51.707
So.

01:37:52.157 --> 01:37:59.097
It was such a gift to see how we can, a
lot of people have judgment about the G20

01:37:59.097 --> 01:38:02.687
itself and saying that it could be, it's,
it can be deemed as very ineffective.

01:38:03.007 --> 01:38:06.787
But what happens there is that you
meet other NGOs, all the other CSOs,

01:38:06.787 --> 01:38:10.417
the civil service organizations
that gather together who are doing

01:38:10.417 --> 01:38:14.577
incredible work, their grassroots
organizations, connecting with them.

01:38:15.067 --> 01:38:19.657
Created such a renewed sense of optimism
when you walk away and you see all of

01:38:19.657 --> 01:38:24.857
these projects that are happening on the
front lines that in and of itself creates

01:38:24.857 --> 01:38:28.967
a resonance because the optimism feeling
that we optimistic feeling that we have

01:38:29.257 --> 01:38:34.387
that generates momentum and so the ripple
effect that is we're still feeling that.

01:38:34.747 --> 01:38:37.657
From that incredible six weeks that
we ended up spending, I was supposed

01:38:37.657 --> 01:38:41.627
to be there for two weeks and we ended
up staying for six and traveling from

01:38:41.637 --> 01:38:46.707
the southern tip of Kerala, we were in
Delhi, Bhuvaneshwar, as well as Sikkim

01:38:46.757 --> 01:38:49.157
for all of the different G20 conferences.

01:38:49.727 --> 01:38:52.787
Rupert Isaacson: And in that time,
is there a time when you then

01:38:52.797 --> 01:39:00.387
stand in front of Biden, Mosey,
Rishi Sunak and say, listen chaps.

01:39:01.122 --> 01:39:05.812
I'm going to tell you about this hot math
thing, or is it more diffused than that?

01:39:06.012 --> 01:39:07.232
How, what's the structure of it?

01:39:08.022 --> 01:39:12.082
Kansas Carradine: Well, the process
is there's a very long bureaucratic

01:39:12.082 --> 01:39:17.402
process of creating policy declaration
because just to give you an idea,

01:39:17.412 --> 01:39:21.292
when the G20 took the civil, the
CSO civil service organizations as

01:39:21.292 --> 01:39:23.962
part of the C20 branch of the G20.

01:39:24.242 --> 01:39:24.822
And so.

01:39:25.072 --> 01:39:28.882
That took place in Indonesia in 2022.

01:39:29.192 --> 01:39:33.442
They had, I think, over 500
NGOs that came together for it.

01:39:33.962 --> 01:39:36.552
And that was inclusive of all
of the different working groups.

01:39:37.017 --> 01:39:39.767
This year, just for the integrated
holistic health in India,

01:39:39.767 --> 01:39:42.767
they had over 800 and there's
14 different working groups.

01:39:43.017 --> 01:39:46.817
So it's a massive amount of
input and data and contributions

01:39:46.837 --> 01:39:50.487
and opinions that everybody is
trying to collect and assemble.

01:39:50.777 --> 01:39:55.877
And my, extreme deep bow of
respect goes to the organizers

01:39:55.877 --> 01:39:57.197
who were able to process.

01:39:57.487 --> 01:39:58.257
They didn't use it.

01:39:58.327 --> 01:40:04.357
Use AI to do this, but to really go
and listen to the concerns to the

01:40:04.357 --> 01:40:07.897
suggestions to the policy declarations
to each and every individual who

01:40:07.897 --> 01:40:11.767
was there gathered at the table for
the separate working working groups.

01:40:13.007 --> 01:40:15.517
So we would gather and have
forum, and each person might

01:40:15.517 --> 01:40:16.887
get just a minute to speak.

01:40:17.227 --> 01:40:21.047
And then we would be crafting policy
declarations, and then it would be

01:40:21.047 --> 01:40:24.527
whittled down to another, say, 350 words.

01:40:24.767 --> 01:40:28.617
And then white papers could be
added, so supported research papers

01:40:28.617 --> 01:40:30.257
could be added as an addendum.

01:40:30.537 --> 01:40:35.767
But ultimately, there was a whole policy
declaration packet that G20 leaders

01:40:35.777 --> 01:40:41.717
in September, after months of delegate
input, and then editing processes.

01:40:43.207 --> 01:40:43.777
And what did,

01:40:43.797 --> 01:40:47.437
Rupert Isaacson: what did those leaders
do with those policy declarations

01:40:47.447 --> 01:40:48.677
that you guys provided them?

01:40:49.177 --> 01:40:50.367
Did they use them as toilet paper?

01:40:50.637 --> 01:40:51.977
Did they roll joints with them?

01:40:52.247 --> 01:40:53.537
Did they actually read them?

01:40:53.577 --> 01:40:54.507
What did they do with them?

01:40:55.647 --> 01:40:58.347
Kansas Carradine: Well, like I
said, The end result, I think

01:40:58.387 --> 01:41:00.177
humans, we can get quite fixated on.

01:41:00.187 --> 01:41:01.327
You have to make a policy.

01:41:01.367 --> 01:41:02.707
You have to make a change right now.

01:41:02.707 --> 01:41:04.467
We want to see this
implemented immediately.

01:41:04.857 --> 01:41:08.567
And to me, the gathering of
the group is really something

01:41:08.567 --> 01:41:09.957
to highlight and focus upon.

01:41:10.437 --> 01:41:14.627
They were given the policy packet
recommendations, and then there was

01:41:14.807 --> 01:41:18.807
certain targets that they will implement.

01:41:18.837 --> 01:41:25.377
And so, for example, by 2025, it
was, we could say, mandated that.

01:41:25.772 --> 01:41:30.312
Emotional self regulation, emotional
self regulation tools will be taught

01:41:30.522 --> 01:41:35.162
through all government agencies as
well as schools in the G20 countries.

01:41:35.502 --> 01:41:35.682
Right?

01:41:35.682 --> 01:41:37.112
So that's 1 example.

01:41:38.092 --> 01:41:39.692
The the.

01:41:40.782 --> 01:41:43.932
For example, the disability
working group was bracketed

01:41:43.972 --> 01:41:45.532
underneath the gender equality.

01:41:45.532 --> 01:41:47.412
It was kind of sandwiched in there.

01:41:47.792 --> 01:41:51.472
And 1 of the changes that we were a
part of is that needs to be its own

01:41:51.492 --> 01:41:53.382
separate working group and delegation.

01:41:53.402 --> 01:41:59.512
And so that was another win that came
out of the 2023 conferences and each time

01:41:59.942 --> 01:42:02.542
that everybody gathers, there's small.

01:42:02.862 --> 01:42:08.482
Incremental steps toward really what we
all want to see, but the conversations

01:42:08.482 --> 01:42:12.062
that happen around it and the connections
that are made, because ultimately it's

01:42:12.062 --> 01:42:13.472
the people on the ground that implement.

01:42:14.322 --> 01:42:17.642
So, whether or not it comes from the heads
of state, the people on the ground say,

01:42:17.662 --> 01:42:19.102
oh, this is what's working in my country.

01:42:19.102 --> 01:42:20.242
Oh, this is a great program.

01:42:20.272 --> 01:42:20.742
Let's emulate.

01:42:21.082 --> 01:42:22.752
Okay, let's network on this.

01:42:22.802 --> 01:42:25.422
And then we start to really see that grow.

01:42:25.432 --> 01:42:31.812
And that movement creates, I would
say a larger waterfall of change than

01:42:31.812 --> 01:42:33.012
anything coming from the top down.

01:42:33.302 --> 01:42:33.642
Rupert Isaacson: Right.

01:42:33.672 --> 01:42:37.822
And would you say that then the,
the policy recommendations that

01:42:37.822 --> 01:42:42.242
are made, is it also way to sub
telegraphing to those leaders?

01:42:42.242 --> 01:42:45.772
And of course the apparatus is around
those leaders, which are, as you say,

01:42:46.662 --> 01:42:50.832
longer there than any elected official,
you know, the state department will

01:42:50.832 --> 01:42:54.412
be the state department, no matter who
is in who the president is currently.

01:42:54.957 --> 01:42:57.507
British Civil Service will be the
British Civil Service, no matter who

01:42:57.607 --> 01:42:58.987
happens to be Prime Minister right now.

01:42:59.407 --> 01:43:03.507
Is it, is it signaling to those
policy makers, listen, this is

01:43:03.527 --> 01:43:05.157
where the zeitgeist is right now.

01:43:05.177 --> 01:43:08.497
This is where people want to go.

01:43:08.887 --> 01:43:12.987
So if you don't go this way, you're
sort of going against history.

01:43:12.997 --> 01:43:18.177
If you go this way, you're going with the
constituency, and it's evolving this way.

01:43:18.177 --> 01:43:19.307
So we recommend that you.

01:43:19.822 --> 01:43:20.262
Do these things.

01:43:20.262 --> 01:43:21.332
Is it sort of like

01:43:21.332 --> 01:43:21.682
Kansas Carradine: that?

01:43:22.752 --> 01:43:23.372
Certainly.

01:43:23.452 --> 01:43:27.832
I mean, I think like, like I said,
with the fact that mental health came

01:43:27.832 --> 01:43:29.562
up at the top of the list for so many.

01:43:30.072 --> 01:43:37.092
This was an indisputable concern
that really needed to be addressed.

01:43:37.092 --> 01:43:41.362
And so it has more gravity
associated with that.

01:43:41.442 --> 01:43:42.102
Rupert Isaacson: That's brilliant.

01:43:42.212 --> 01:43:42.932
Okay.

01:43:43.172 --> 01:43:44.902
What was the name of the foundation again?

01:43:45.102 --> 01:43:47.742
I know I'm playing devil's
advocate, but I think people need

01:43:47.742 --> 01:43:48.252
Kansas Carradine: to hear this.

01:43:49.252 --> 01:43:49.572
Sure.

01:43:49.602 --> 01:43:53.812
It's the Fiera Foundation,
F Y E R A Foundation.

01:43:53.842 --> 01:43:54.762
F Y E R A.

01:43:54.762 --> 01:43:58.842
And the Fiera Foundation has also been
involved with the United Nations for quite

01:43:58.842 --> 01:44:01.322
some time and speaks on the Who are they?

01:44:01.322 --> 01:44:02.174
Commission for the Status of Women.

01:44:02.174 --> 01:44:03.532
And why are you involved in them?

01:44:04.212 --> 01:44:09.612
And it's started, it's a non profit that
began by my mentor through HeartMath.

01:44:10.102 --> 01:44:14.152
And it started out She was
working, her name is Sheva Kaur.

01:44:14.722 --> 01:44:19.842
And Sheva Is another person that you
could have on the show is is amazing.

01:44:20.692 --> 01:44:27.602
She was working in Nicaragua during
the war and she was so impacted

01:44:27.602 --> 01:44:30.502
by her experience there that she
wanted to be able to give back and

01:44:30.502 --> 01:44:33.082
started at 1st, a nonprofit that was.

01:44:34.002 --> 01:44:38.662
Just feeding and clothing and
bringing education to rural,

01:44:39.082 --> 01:44:40.462
mostly rural street children.

01:44:40.852 --> 01:44:45.172
And then that expanded to also creating
some sustainable agriculture programs

01:44:45.492 --> 01:44:46.912
as well as teaching heart math.

01:44:47.452 --> 01:44:54.362
And then that organization grew to being
able to also have programs in Zimbabwe.

01:44:54.937 --> 01:44:56.047
Bringing clean water.

01:44:56.437 --> 01:45:01.127
There's been teaching emotional
self-regulation to refugees in different

01:45:01.607 --> 01:45:07.067
war torn situations, as well as working on
negotiations between Israel and Palestine.

01:45:07.677 --> 01:45:11.667
There's an outreach that is in California
helping those who've been dealing with

01:45:12.057 --> 01:45:17.697
disaster from fires and, and things like
that, and being displaced from climate.

01:45:18.592 --> 01:45:21.182
Emergencies and teaching
heart math as well.

01:45:21.182 --> 01:45:21.432
So.

01:45:22.087 --> 01:45:25.977
If it makes sense to really bring
in the actual tools of heart

01:45:25.977 --> 01:45:27.547
math, then that can come in.

01:45:27.547 --> 01:45:33.287
But ultimately, we we've also learned
that just having basic needs, then you

01:45:33.287 --> 01:45:35.987
can start to share and teach tools.

01:45:35.997 --> 01:45:41.527
So, if the need at the time is really
just providing basic sustenance or

01:45:41.527 --> 01:45:45.737
basic education or basic supplies so
that they can go to school, then that's

01:45:45.747 --> 01:45:47.377
the means the needs that are met.

01:45:47.377 --> 01:45:51.217
So there's many different, projects
that the fear foundation has been

01:45:51.217 --> 01:45:52.367
involved in for quite some time.

01:45:52.497 --> 01:45:55.047
Rupert Isaacson: And the fear foundation
was actually originally sending your

01:45:55.087 --> 01:45:58.952
daughter and you were going along with
Shafira and then of course got involved.

01:45:58.952 --> 01:45:59.223
Why

01:45:59.223 --> 01:46:00.577
Kansas Carradine: was it
sending your daughter?

01:46:00.857 --> 01:46:02.417
She as a youth delegate.

01:46:02.657 --> 01:46:03.007
Okay.

01:46:03.007 --> 01:46:03.484
How old

01:46:03.484 --> 01:46:04.201
Rupert Isaacson: is your daughter?

01:46:04.201 --> 01:46:04.917
How old was

01:46:05.197 --> 01:46:05.567
Kansas Carradine: she then?

01:46:05.577 --> 01:46:06.267
She's 18.

01:46:06.557 --> 01:46:07.247
She's 18.

01:46:07.247 --> 01:46:08.117
She was 17.

01:46:09.007 --> 01:46:09.337
Yeah.

01:46:09.367 --> 01:46:11.537
So we ended up going, going together.

01:46:11.717 --> 01:46:13.607
I haven't traveling so much at the time.

01:46:13.647 --> 01:46:16.387
I thought, Oh, I can't, I had
just gotten back into the country,

01:46:16.387 --> 01:46:17.937
been gone for seven months.

01:46:17.957 --> 01:46:20.347
And I thought, I can't leave
for India in two weeks.

01:46:20.927 --> 01:46:23.697
But I did, and I went for, for six.

01:46:24.477 --> 01:46:31.687
So that's part of just really following
my heart and, and being able and

01:46:31.687 --> 01:46:33.517
willing to be of service in that way.

01:46:34.367 --> 01:46:34.777
Okay.

01:46:35.497 --> 01:46:40.477
Rupert Isaacson: So now I happen to know
that you and my great friend, Warwick

01:46:40.477 --> 01:46:47.397
Schiller, have been down more recently
in Patagonia and you've been doing a

01:46:47.737 --> 01:46:52.257
very fun and rather crazy adventure down
there that people call the Gaucho Derby.

01:46:54.447 --> 01:46:54.937
Why?

01:46:56.047 --> 01:47:00.587
It's, I know it's like a 500 mile ride
through Patagonia, which of course anyone

01:47:00.587 --> 01:47:03.417
would want to do just for its own sake,
because it's an awesome thing to do.

01:47:03.977 --> 01:47:04.897
Is it just.

01:47:06.332 --> 01:47:11.072
A wealthy, horsey person's fun month.

01:47:11.137 --> 01:47:17.557
And there's nothing wrong with that,
or is it something else as well?

01:47:17.707 --> 01:47:18.917
What was going on with that?

01:47:18.957 --> 01:47:21.197
Why, why were you going down
there and doing that thing?

01:47:22.307 --> 01:47:23.307
And tell us about it.

01:47:23.307 --> 01:47:24.127
What is

01:47:24.127 --> 01:47:25.267
Kansas Carradine: the Gaucho Derby?

01:47:25.747 --> 01:47:26.227
Certainly.

01:47:26.417 --> 01:47:30.157
So the Gaucho Derby itself,
it's a 500 kilometer track.

01:47:30.567 --> 01:47:34.407
When we were there, they decided
to explain to us all the, the truth

01:47:34.407 --> 01:47:36.227
behind it is it's not a horse race.

01:47:36.657 --> 01:47:40.967
It is a survivalist,
orienteering, mountaineering race.

01:47:41.207 --> 01:47:45.297
On horses, self navigated
so there is no real trail.

01:47:45.297 --> 01:47:48.107
You have GPS points that
you follow along the way.

01:47:48.107 --> 01:47:50.347
There's 19 of those until
you get to the finish line.

01:47:50.797 --> 01:47:55.217
It's supposed to be 500 kilometers,
however, work and I tracked 687.

01:47:56.267 --> 01:48:01.587
So that's about 425 miles and
you have 10 days to complete it.

01:48:02.047 --> 01:48:05.387
The, the leaders came in, I believe
at eight days, we came in at

01:48:05.387 --> 01:48:07.597
nine and then the rest came in at

01:48:07.597 --> 01:48:07.677
Rupert Isaacson: 10.

01:48:07.677 --> 01:48:11.047
Are you like hundreds of riders strung
out over the same landscape or do you?

01:48:11.217 --> 01:48:13.807
You all start at different
times in little teams.

01:48:13.807 --> 01:48:14.387
How's it go?

01:48:14.517 --> 01:48:14.887
Well,

01:48:15.257 --> 01:48:17.927
Kansas Carradine: we all start off
this start line at the same time.

01:48:18.187 --> 01:48:20.237
There's not hundreds of
writers from what I understand.

01:48:20.237 --> 01:48:24.077
There's a couple hundred applicants,
but there's only about 40 writers.

01:48:24.077 --> 01:48:28.557
I think we had 38 from several different
countries and everybody converges and

01:48:28.557 --> 01:48:32.557
has three days of orientation that
include intense medical briefings.

01:48:32.987 --> 01:48:33.622
And yeah, Yeah.

01:48:33.802 --> 01:48:37.122
Understanding how to work the GPS, as
well as being able to pack all of your

01:48:37.122 --> 01:48:39.332
equipment on your horses securely.

01:48:39.872 --> 01:48:44.242
That was definitely tested, especially
within the 1st week or 1st few days of

01:48:44.242 --> 01:48:47.322
riding is invariably saddle would turn.

01:48:47.602 --> 01:48:50.102
Horses would go off and
gear would go everywhere.

01:48:50.502 --> 01:48:53.002
So arriving early to get all of that.

01:48:53.752 --> 01:48:56.282
Dialed in, it was really useful.

01:48:56.292 --> 01:49:01.362
So the reason that I did it, Rupert, is
Warwick had actually invited me or told

01:49:01.362 --> 01:49:03.912
me about it and said, Hey, would you be
interested in doing this about a year

01:49:03.912 --> 01:49:06.232
ago when I ran into him at Aquitana?

01:49:06.847 --> 01:49:11.147
And I thought immediately I said, no,
I don't need to put myself in that

01:49:12.127 --> 01:49:17.207
either ego trip or kind of this race
that just seems like an adventure thing.

01:49:17.527 --> 01:49:19.967
And I don't want to put myself
in a situation where I could

01:49:19.967 --> 01:49:21.657
compromise my horse's welfare.

01:49:21.937 --> 01:49:24.257
That to me was a big red flag.

01:49:24.657 --> 01:49:26.127
Then a year passed.

01:49:26.927 --> 01:49:32.787
I like many of us have been modulating
and I think in huge hinge points and

01:49:32.787 --> 01:49:36.277
there's just tremendous amount of growth
taking place on the planet right now.

01:49:37.257 --> 01:49:39.587
And when I spoke with Warwick
about it again, I thought,

01:49:39.667 --> 01:49:41.847
gosh, what an interesting, I
learned more about the Derby.

01:49:41.847 --> 01:49:45.207
I learned more about Stevie Della Hunt,
who was his coach, who's been down there

01:49:45.207 --> 01:49:46.617
and she's one of the event organizers.

01:49:47.147 --> 01:49:50.317
And I thought, and was really
captivated by the horses.

01:49:51.247 --> 01:49:54.837
So, he said that somebody dropped out
last minute and if I was interested,

01:49:54.837 --> 01:49:56.127
I could contact this other person.

01:49:56.787 --> 01:49:57.947
Basically most people.

01:49:58.502 --> 01:50:02.562
Plan for a year or more and I had
about 6 weeks to get everything

01:50:02.562 --> 01:50:05.962
together and I had to get really
clear about why I was doing it.

01:50:05.982 --> 01:50:08.422
And number 1 was by far to
connect with those horses.

01:50:09.042 --> 01:50:13.112
I had heard amazing things about them
and how they have really retained their

01:50:13.202 --> 01:50:19.232
spirit and their connection to their
authentic self and their authentic

01:50:19.322 --> 01:50:26.162
capabilities of full Full embodiment
of the equine is just next level.

01:50:26.172 --> 01:50:32.212
How, how those horses are so agile and
so adept at carrying humans on their

01:50:32.212 --> 01:50:34.652
back across treacherous landscapes.

01:50:35.582 --> 01:50:39.842
And at the same time, I also
wanted to go there to connect

01:50:39.842 --> 01:50:42.442
with the land and to really.

01:50:42.857 --> 01:50:46.937
I was able to get a first hand
experience about the Patagonia region.

01:50:47.397 --> 01:50:51.337
It was the only country that I had our
continent that I hadn't really been on and

01:50:51.337 --> 01:50:56.897
I know that the Patagonia has sensitive,
delicate, specialized landscape that I

01:50:56.947 --> 01:51:00.587
was interested in learning more about it
and seeing what I could do to give back.

01:51:00.717 --> 01:51:04.207
I was shocked at how many people
did not know that the Patagonia

01:51:04.217 --> 01:51:05.807
region was in South America.

01:51:06.142 --> 01:51:11.842
That I encountered so always wanting
to bring that back for education,

01:51:11.852 --> 01:51:15.142
both to some of the clients and
nonprofits that I work with.

01:51:15.182 --> 01:51:21.632
I still work with at risk youth and
different inner city context and then to

01:51:21.632 --> 01:51:25.452
be able to share the wisdom that I felt.

01:51:25.737 --> 01:51:29.717
Those were the two reasons that I wanted
to go there, and my experience was

01:51:29.977 --> 01:51:32.417
exceeded my expectations in all ways.

01:51:32.987 --> 01:51:38.027
I was able to connect with those horses
and feel, again, I talked about it

01:51:38.037 --> 01:51:41.837
at the beginning of our discussion,
when one has safety, the resonance

01:51:41.837 --> 01:51:44.657
of safety, when that is present,
then you can be of service to others.

01:51:44.657 --> 01:51:48.577
And so because I felt really safe and
secure on my horses, I was able to help.

01:51:49.057 --> 01:51:52.397
Whether it was just holding another
person's horse, because they needed

01:51:52.397 --> 01:51:56.337
to reset their saddle or whether
it was giving extra food, because

01:51:56.337 --> 01:52:00.617
somebody's resupply bag hadn't shown
up and just offering kind words and

01:52:00.617 --> 01:52:04.497
guidance and support and compassion,
because everybody was tested out there.

01:52:04.507 --> 01:52:08.067
It was really challenging
the weather, the.

01:52:08.472 --> 01:52:09.902
Just being on demand all the time.

01:52:09.912 --> 01:52:11.192
You're setting up your own tent.

01:52:11.442 --> 01:52:13.592
You're riding about 10 to 12 hours a day.

01:52:14.082 --> 01:52:17.292
You have to draw the number out
of hat for the horse that you get

01:52:17.302 --> 01:52:18.512
and then go in and catch them.

01:52:19.072 --> 01:52:20.192
And none of that is easy.

01:52:20.752 --> 01:52:24.072
It went really well for me,
and I'm grateful for that.

01:52:24.102 --> 01:52:24.472
I had a.

01:52:25.222 --> 01:52:27.952
Fantastic experience and just
adored every 1 of my horses and

01:52:27.952 --> 01:52:28.812
would have brought them back home.

01:52:29.682 --> 01:52:35.832
And I also met my growth edge, which is,
in the beginning, I had also imagined

01:52:35.832 --> 01:52:41.462
that we might be able to flow along
closer to the front of the pack and right

01:52:41.462 --> 01:52:44.652
at the beginning work and I had decided
that we would stay with each other.

01:52:44.652 --> 01:52:48.792
And on day 2, he actually
cut a horse out of a fence.

01:52:48.822 --> 01:52:51.542
And so that created a little bit of a
delay as we were going into a vet check.

01:52:51.542 --> 01:52:55.582
So we were held back and then he cut
another horse out of a fence that got.

01:52:56.052 --> 01:52:59.492
All 4 legs stuck into some
wires and I was teasing.

01:52:59.492 --> 01:53:02.292
Oh, I'm just going to hang around with
work while he helps rescue horses.

01:53:02.812 --> 01:53:04.092
But he had a horse that came up lame.

01:53:04.092 --> 01:53:08.332
And so we went all the way back and there
was a certain amount of disappointment

01:53:08.342 --> 01:53:12.772
that I had to unpack because it sure
would have been fun to be up there

01:53:12.772 --> 01:53:13.902
with some of our other friends.

01:53:14.432 --> 01:53:15.252
But as.

01:53:15.752 --> 01:53:19.082
The universe would create
a perfect situation.

01:53:19.512 --> 01:53:26.132
We had no idea that we actually were
all going to meet because it was, you

01:53:26.132 --> 01:53:27.662
know, 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

01:53:27.662 --> 01:53:30.802
You never know how it was going to happen
and how people were going to reconvene.

01:53:30.812 --> 01:53:31.042
But.

01:53:31.887 --> 01:53:35.877
There was, there was definitely an
elasticity to, you know, who the

01:53:35.877 --> 01:53:40.377
leaders were and, and what the metric
of success would be and could be.

01:53:40.977 --> 01:53:46.347
And as soon, I felt really blessed
that on day 2, I had to shed that

01:53:46.347 --> 01:53:48.207
metric of success immediately.

01:53:48.787 --> 01:53:51.817
And so then it allowed me to just
really be open and available.

01:53:52.102 --> 01:53:56.412
The entire experience because success
for me was being able to be present,

01:53:56.432 --> 01:54:02.002
being able to have that security and
that connection with the horses and

01:54:02.032 --> 01:54:08.002
to stay safe and complete it while
feeling good and and in that sense,

01:54:08.002 --> 01:54:12.222
it was extremely successful and I
adored all of those horses and it was.

01:54:12.607 --> 01:54:13.547
Right, good fun as well.

01:54:15.687 --> 01:54:17.307
Rupert Isaacson: I won't tell
anyone about the fun bit.

01:54:17.797 --> 01:54:21.577
What's the element of service that you
think you're gonna now you've had your

01:54:21.577 --> 01:54:23.227
eyes open to this part of the world?

01:54:23.277 --> 01:54:26.087
I know that there are, I happen to know,
because I'm involved in the conservation

01:54:26.087 --> 01:54:29.867
world, so I happen to know that there
are large scale, large, large scale

01:54:29.877 --> 01:54:31.857
conservation measures going on down there.

01:54:32.507 --> 01:54:35.717
Through, you know, the company
Patagonia, the clothing company, and

01:54:35.717 --> 01:54:37.327
all sorts of private philanthropists.

01:54:37.327 --> 01:54:37.807
But.

01:54:37.947 --> 01:54:41.137
What, what, you know, what,
what element of service do you

01:54:41.137 --> 01:54:43.707
feel is your next chapter now?

01:54:43.707 --> 01:54:45.567
It's clearly you've been drawn down there.

01:54:45.897 --> 01:54:47.227
What, what's, what's next for you?

01:54:47.227 --> 01:54:48.427
Are you going to do something down there?

01:54:48.427 --> 01:54:48.577
Something

01:54:48.597 --> 01:54:49.037
Kansas Carradine: interesting?

01:54:50.017 --> 01:54:52.207
Well, I would like to continue to educate.

01:54:52.237 --> 01:54:55.847
And so I would really be attracted
to bringing groups down there so

01:54:55.847 --> 01:54:58.597
that they can see firsthand and
learn and understand the vastness.

01:54:58.617 --> 01:55:00.827
It's really the undeveloped aspect of it.

01:55:01.307 --> 01:55:04.537
And so there's a pristine
quality to the land and that

01:55:04.537 --> 01:55:06.237
when we are truly removed from.

01:55:06.757 --> 01:55:09.907
Both wifi signals, as well as cities
and roads and infrastructures, because

01:55:09.907 --> 01:55:13.947
those roads themselves disrupt migratory
patterns, as you know, very well.

01:55:14.587 --> 01:55:17.297
There's less development civilization.

01:55:17.297 --> 01:55:24.967
So one can experience a lot of
stillness that is quite rare.

01:55:24.997 --> 01:55:29.247
I find in other aspects or
in other places in society.

01:55:29.697 --> 01:55:34.092
So there's something to be said for
just Being able to drop in deeply and

01:55:34.092 --> 01:55:38.862
then at the same time, there's actual
opportunities for outreach that right now.

01:55:39.472 --> 01:55:42.482
I was able to meet somebody who
is aligned with that particular

01:55:42.542 --> 01:55:44.502
Patagonia conservations where
they're giving back land.

01:55:44.502 --> 01:55:47.432
So they're buying massive amounts
of land and then giving it back

01:55:47.452 --> 01:55:48.962
and creating national park systems.

01:55:49.482 --> 01:55:51.722
And I saw some of the land that.

01:55:52.037 --> 01:55:56.777
Is still being contested, still
estancias, and there's private

01:55:56.777 --> 01:55:59.867
ownerships in between parks, for
example, that they want to conserve.

01:56:00.137 --> 01:56:04.517
And there's different endemic species
that basically just need funding

01:56:04.517 --> 01:56:06.017
to be able to research properly.

01:56:06.287 --> 01:56:10.547
For example, there's the hooded
grid, which is a water bird that.

01:56:10.967 --> 01:56:14.747
I think it was 40 years ago, they
had 5000 and now the numbers are

01:56:14.747 --> 01:56:16.407
down to like 400 mating pairs.

01:56:16.987 --> 01:56:21.337
And part of it is because of a loss
of habitat, not just because of less

01:56:21.497 --> 01:56:25.057
snow, which those lagoons create
a specific environment, but also

01:56:25.057 --> 01:56:28.957
the introduction introduction of
invasive species, the American mink.

01:56:30.077 --> 01:56:34.787
That really does a number on the
population, but being able to

01:56:34.947 --> 01:56:37.647
bring awareness to that and say,
oh, there's things that we can do.

01:56:37.647 --> 01:56:39.217
We just need to be able
to get more research.

01:56:39.457 --> 01:56:43.277
We need to have a little bit more
support down here so that we can, make

01:56:43.287 --> 01:56:45.177
an impact, it can happen right now.

01:56:45.207 --> 01:56:46.917
Right now, a time is of the essence.

01:56:47.357 --> 01:56:52.267
And then there was also another endemic
species a type of chinchilla that has been

01:56:52.297 --> 01:56:54.367
hunted both for its fur and for its meat.

01:56:54.777 --> 01:56:58.807
And those are also protective in those
conservation lands, which you know,

01:56:58.807 --> 01:57:00.877
Douglas and Chris Thompson were very.

01:57:01.137 --> 01:57:04.597
A Tompkins, excuse me, we're
very instrumental in creating

01:57:04.607 --> 01:57:05.897
that particular sanctuary.

01:57:06.677 --> 01:57:11.287
So, I have always said, I just want to
align myself to really be an instrument.

01:57:11.307 --> 01:57:15.407
And if that is just to be able to create
a pathway of information to start to

01:57:15.407 --> 01:57:19.737
come back and then be able to show people
firsthand how they can make an impact.

01:57:20.087 --> 01:57:23.727
It's about education and creating
educational opportunities.

01:57:23.957 --> 01:57:27.597
I had discussions with somebody who
was actually the, secretary of the

01:57:27.597 --> 01:57:33.137
environment for the Santa Cruz state
and already has a lot of ideas to

01:57:33.167 --> 01:57:37.877
educate the local community, but just
needs some help with, like, developing

01:57:37.907 --> 01:57:42.357
apps and being able to create a kind
of the technology to support around it.

01:57:42.357 --> 01:57:45.727
So, I'm interested in collaborating
with some of my friends that are in tech

01:57:45.757 --> 01:57:47.407
to see if we can do that to help him.

01:57:47.947 --> 01:57:48.187
Rupert Isaacson: Cool.

01:57:48.397 --> 01:57:49.937
So you're going to be doing
more stuff down there.

01:57:51.052 --> 01:57:53.632
Kansas Carradine: I'd like to
absolutely sounds like I just

01:57:53.662 --> 01:57:55.332
got back like a couple weeks ago.

01:57:55.332 --> 01:57:59.242
So, I mean, I think I
came back eight days ago.

01:57:59.242 --> 01:58:00.212
So this is very recent.

01:58:01.212 --> 01:58:03.352
Rupert Isaacson: And you're also doing
stuff that's much more close to home.

01:58:03.352 --> 01:58:06.972
For example, you know, you sent
me a link, which I'd seen of you

01:58:06.972 --> 01:58:08.582
doing work with the Compton Cowboys.

01:58:08.582 --> 01:58:10.602
Those again, listeners that
don't know what that is.

01:58:10.722 --> 01:58:12.982
That's an in city Los Angeles.

01:58:12.982 --> 01:58:13.682
We all, you know.

01:58:14.052 --> 01:58:17.752
Straight out of Compton, et cetera,
rap, but with that comes, of

01:58:17.752 --> 01:58:20.112
course, inner city unpleasantnesses.

01:58:20.552 --> 01:58:25.602
And they have a long standing equestrian
project there called the Compton Cowboys.

01:58:25.852 --> 01:58:27.202
I know you've been involved with them.

01:58:27.592 --> 01:58:28.332
That's quite recent.

01:58:28.332 --> 01:58:30.962
Can you tell us a little bit
about that and that sort of work?

01:58:32.062 --> 01:58:33.842
Kansas Carradine: Sure,
yeah, it's a friend of mine.

01:58:34.152 --> 01:58:37.612
Actually, she has headed up
the show jumping arm of it.

01:58:37.962 --> 01:58:44.102
And so for the last 15 years, the
children who's really put their time

01:58:44.102 --> 01:58:49.712
into the program and show a high
level of commitment actually get it

01:58:49.752 --> 01:58:51.742
and the opportunity to compete in.

01:58:52.002 --> 01:58:57.172
Hunter jumper and show jumping at a very
high level because of the endowment and

01:58:57.172 --> 01:59:01.962
the donations that have been given because
ultimately, as, as, you know, it's a very

01:59:01.962 --> 01:59:05.562
difficult for it to penetrate, even if
you're a middle class and right now to

01:59:05.562 --> 01:59:10.212
be able to give that it's an opportunity
to not only create more diversity in it,

01:59:10.622 --> 01:59:12.462
but I think anybody can attest there's.

01:59:12.652 --> 01:59:16.552
There's a huge amount of self
mastery that one can learn also when

01:59:16.562 --> 01:59:19.612
being in partnership with a horse
in that powerful and over fences

01:59:19.942 --> 01:59:21.542
and in a competitive environment.

01:59:21.842 --> 01:59:27.492
So what I've been able to do is spend
some time with both the beginners down in

01:59:27.502 --> 01:59:31.132
Compton that are just learning the basics,
just balance and handling and horsemanship

01:59:31.132 --> 01:59:35.442
and horse care, as well as those that
are in the, the youth show jumping team

01:59:35.872 --> 01:59:37.822
to help them understand about what.

01:59:37.972 --> 01:59:43.292
Their energy brings into the interaction
with the horse and to start to perceive

01:59:43.682 --> 01:59:50.402
again, a wider view a bigger picture, if
you will, or a bird's eye view of how we

01:59:50.402 --> 01:59:52.852
relate to these species and how we can.

01:59:53.182 --> 01:59:57.352
Honor and respect and treat all of
our interactions with them as sacred.

01:59:57.642 --> 02:00:01.312
This is really what, what I do every time
I, I interact with anybody in regards

02:00:01.312 --> 02:00:06.062
to horses is just help them remind and
cultivate visceral experiences that

02:00:06.062 --> 02:00:09.742
they can remember to bring more sacred
sacredness into their interactions.

02:00:10.322 --> 02:00:12.212
Rupert Isaacson: It's interesting
that that's where we started.

02:00:12.252 --> 02:00:16.822
I mean, when you were talking about, you
know, Cavalia would show up in the cities.

02:00:17.692 --> 02:00:21.882
And I remember, yeah, in Dallas where,
where you guys were performing, it was.

02:00:23.547 --> 02:00:24.427
Very much in the city.

02:00:24.657 --> 02:00:28.267
And we used to do, and bringing
that magic we used to do that a lot

02:00:28.317 --> 02:00:29.537
in the early days with Horseboy.

02:00:29.537 --> 02:00:32.987
We would go and set up in
city parks in Austin, Texas.

02:00:32.987 --> 02:00:35.847
And we'd just show up with the horses
in a trailer, show up by a playground,

02:00:36.727 --> 02:00:39.177
and the kids would just go, and
we'd just start working with them.

02:00:39.447 --> 02:00:42.487
Because it was, it was, you know,
just the riding down the street, just.

02:00:42.887 --> 02:00:45.677
I remember that when I was a little
boy in London, just the appearance of a

02:00:45.677 --> 02:00:48.617
horse and you know, reality of change.

02:00:48.877 --> 02:00:54.417
So this thing about the shifting of
reality is sort of where I want to, I

02:00:54.417 --> 02:00:58.457
could, I could go on for another hour,
but I know you're tired and I would

02:00:58.457 --> 02:01:00.847
like to have you back on because there's
actually a lot more I'd like to ask you.

02:01:01.367 --> 02:01:04.897
But you're, you're, you're
clearly somebody who has lived.

02:01:06.202 --> 02:01:08.332
consecutive and parallel lives.

02:01:08.332 --> 02:01:17.152
And one of the questions which I often
get and which I often hear posed to people

02:01:17.152 --> 02:01:19.402
like that is, how do you find the time?

02:01:20.322 --> 02:01:26.032
And one of the, you said something in our
preamble before we hit the record button.

02:01:26.222 --> 02:01:30.042
So I just want to have you
speak to this a little bit.

02:01:30.702 --> 02:01:33.072
And I loved what you said,
it's in a quote, so this is

02:01:33.072 --> 02:01:35.112
a quote from Kansas Caroline.

02:01:35.392 --> 02:01:40.002
It's, time itself is up for inquiry.

02:01:42.012 --> 02:01:43.392
Tell us, tell us what you mean by that.

02:01:45.622 --> 02:01:49.902
Kansas Carradine: Well, I, we, you and
I both have spent a fair bit of time,

02:01:49.902 --> 02:01:51.842
Rupert, in Indigenous communities.

02:01:52.202 --> 02:01:58.102
And anyone who has will notice
that the Western concept of time

02:01:58.362 --> 02:02:01.722
is very fixed and inflexible.

02:02:02.402 --> 02:02:04.902
In a way, and it creates
this sense of pressure.

02:02:05.182 --> 02:02:07.672
It's also something that I speak to
a lot when we're working with horses.

02:02:07.682 --> 02:02:11.642
Anytime you start to put this idea of,
Oh, I want to get faster, whether it's

02:02:11.642 --> 02:02:15.672
in calf roping or whether I need to get
done because I have a dentist appointment.

02:02:15.682 --> 02:02:17.242
Those are both ways that.

02:02:17.652 --> 02:02:22.912
Time synthetically dilutes
really the experience or kind

02:02:22.912 --> 02:02:26.782
of corrodes the experience of
relationship and being present.

02:02:26.782 --> 02:02:28.187
It's toxic time, almost, yeah.

02:02:28.187 --> 02:02:32.912
It creates it, yeah, it's like there's
a pervasive toxicity that comes into it

02:02:33.332 --> 02:02:41.012
and when you spend time with time, with
native people and in, on the reservations

02:02:41.052 --> 02:02:46.522
and with indigenous communities,
you start to realize that time is.

02:02:47.002 --> 02:02:51.352
When it feels right, as opposed to
because of a number on a digital clock

02:02:51.682 --> 02:02:59.052
or the, when a hand moves to a particular
position and there's a beauty to that

02:02:59.052 --> 02:03:04.612
because with it comes relaxation and with
that relaxation, there's an openness.

02:03:04.612 --> 02:03:09.572
We think of it as, like, there's a
breath that decontracts and when we

02:03:09.572 --> 02:03:15.652
have that true presence, awareness,
relaxation, it can create an open

02:03:15.652 --> 02:03:17.712
up to other possibilities and.

02:03:18.307 --> 02:03:22.457
I find that my relationship with
time was different because being an

02:03:22.467 --> 02:03:27.147
artist, you don't have to clock in,
clock out in the same way and working

02:03:27.147 --> 02:03:32.177
with horses, I didn't have to follow a
fixed instructor program where I said,

02:03:32.177 --> 02:03:33.457
okay, I've got a 30 minute lesson.

02:03:33.457 --> 02:03:33.647
Okay.

02:03:33.647 --> 02:03:34.897
I've got another 30 minute lesson.

02:03:34.897 --> 02:03:36.167
And it wasn't as fixed.

02:03:37.077 --> 02:03:40.517
If I was working with a horse and
everything was accomplished in 15 minutes,

02:03:40.927 --> 02:03:43.357
then we would allow that to settle.

02:03:43.832 --> 02:03:46.592
And if it took two hours,
then that was okay, too.

02:03:46.942 --> 02:03:50.932
So being able to have that freedom
is definitely something that comes

02:03:50.932 --> 02:03:55.332
of privilege, but it allows for a
different communication to unfold.

02:03:55.752 --> 02:04:01.122
And that elegant unfolding also is present
in our lives when we can slow down.

02:04:01.802 --> 02:04:09.672
And my children, I would say, and being a
homeschooling parent, and being with them,

02:04:10.147 --> 02:04:13.707
Child time or horse time and nature time.

02:04:14.127 --> 02:04:17.507
It all just allowed a little
bit more of an expanded space.

02:04:18.137 --> 02:04:22.537
I chose deliberately not to engage in a
lot of social media for the last 15 years.

02:04:23.547 --> 02:04:27.717
I'd say I chose to then because only
recently in the last two months since

02:04:27.717 --> 02:04:32.527
the Gaucho Derby, I have entered on to
it a little bit, but that freed up a

02:04:32.527 --> 02:04:35.657
lot of time because I was never posting.

02:04:35.687 --> 02:04:41.307
I was never scrolling on those
type of things and my children,

02:04:41.317 --> 02:04:45.787
for example, didn't have phones,
like my older daughter is now 18.

02:04:46.577 --> 02:04:51.617
She didn't have a phone at all until
she was 16 and at the time it seemed so

02:04:52.292 --> 02:04:56.172
So bizarre, people just really didn't
understand it, but it allowed us to

02:04:56.172 --> 02:05:00.972
really drop in deeply with each other and
be present with each other more often.

02:05:01.302 --> 02:05:07.372
And I think that that has
Contributed to finding more space

02:05:07.382 --> 02:05:08.992
for that, which is meaningful.

02:05:10.122 --> 02:05:15.692
And now, when I notice that rushed
energy coming in immediately, I'll have

02:05:15.692 --> 02:05:20.492
the reflex to try and create that decom
track, trying to create that expansion.

02:05:21.192 --> 02:05:23.252
We shared about this at the beginning
of the call, but there's a friend

02:05:23.252 --> 02:05:26.592
of mine who works in indigenous
communities in Thailand and the

02:05:26.622 --> 02:05:31.932
government was trying to schedule a
tourist a tourist calendar that would

02:05:31.932 --> 02:05:35.352
allow them to proceed to observe these
cultural events that were taking place.

02:05:35.352 --> 02:05:37.622
And so they asked the
elders when they would.

02:05:37.917 --> 02:05:42.377
When they could put it on the calendar,
basically, to which they replied,

02:05:42.527 --> 02:05:44.027
well, there is no calendar for it.

02:05:44.037 --> 02:05:45.117
It's not by the moon.

02:05:45.127 --> 02:05:46.387
It's just when it's time.

02:05:46.387 --> 02:05:47.597
It's just when it feels right.

02:05:48.587 --> 02:05:51.707
And to, I mean, just imagine
that for a moment, what would

02:05:51.707 --> 02:05:53.497
it be like to go through life?

02:05:54.342 --> 02:05:59.742
And decide to bring a teaching forward,
for example, when it feels right,

02:06:00.162 --> 02:06:05.062
not because the clock has ticked or
because this is the next thing in

02:06:05.062 --> 02:06:06.932
the order of a very linear process.

02:06:07.772 --> 02:06:09.702
It would create a whole
different experience.

02:06:09.742 --> 02:06:14.957
And so, the more that we can find
opportunities for going by feel, As

02:06:14.957 --> 02:06:18.657
opposed to just going by, you know,
the intellect, the logic, or this

02:06:18.677 --> 02:06:23.267
time construct, it gives us at least
a little bit of a balance because,

02:06:23.267 --> 02:06:25.147
yes, we do need organization in life.

02:06:25.547 --> 02:06:28.387
It's not about, I mentioned
earlier this term, throwing the

02:06:28.387 --> 02:06:29.657
baby out with the bathwater.

02:06:30.107 --> 02:06:36.402
It's about finding the blend, the both
and, but the, The inquiry of how can I

02:06:36.412 --> 02:06:38.312
have a different relationship with time?

02:06:38.842 --> 02:06:44.102
How can I recognize and befriend that
idea of going with feel as opposed to the

02:06:44.102 --> 02:06:48.092
metric of measurement that is is relative?

02:06:48.172 --> 02:06:48.572
Would you

02:06:48.572 --> 02:06:51.412
Rupert Isaacson: say, would you,
is it fair to say that what you're

02:06:51.422 --> 02:06:55.762
effectively, one of the things you're
effectively saying is in order to

02:06:55.882 --> 02:06:58.952
Create more time to do more things.

02:06:59.762 --> 02:07:00.922
You don't need to speed up.

02:07:00.922 --> 02:07:01.842
You need to slow down.

02:07:04.262 --> 02:07:09.022
Kansas Carradine: I like that That's gonna
be the quote for our call Absolutely.

02:07:09.412 --> 02:07:10.322
Absolutely.

02:07:10.332 --> 02:07:16.402
And that's such a beautiful,
this is a beautiful statement

02:07:16.412 --> 02:07:18.902
for horses because we have this.

02:07:21.057 --> 02:07:26.427
Opposing idea that we need to rush
in and save something, you know,

02:07:26.427 --> 02:07:28.907
when things get big and there's
an accident and whatnot, we think

02:07:28.907 --> 02:07:30.717
we need to rush around and fix it.

02:07:30.717 --> 02:07:31.747
And it's opposite.

02:07:31.797 --> 02:07:36.417
If you feel that need to rush in,
really take that extra pause and come

02:07:36.427 --> 02:07:40.317
back and come to a place where we're
responding as opposed to reacting.

02:07:42.897 --> 02:07:43.707
Rupert Isaacson: Absolutely.

02:07:44.437 --> 02:07:46.937
Past, present and future all
together at the same time.

02:07:47.637 --> 02:07:49.907
You know, this.

02:07:49.972 --> 02:07:54.762
I, I, I, well, in my own
equestrian endeavour.

02:07:55.352 --> 02:08:00.942
More and more I don't like to, I try
not to use the word working my horse

02:08:00.942 --> 02:08:03.842
anymore, you know, I've got to go
work on my flying change, I've got to

02:08:03.872 --> 02:08:08.692
go work, it's like, I'm not working,
I'm playing, I'm playing, and this

02:08:08.692 --> 02:08:16.242
horse is generously, you know, playing
with me, could be doing other things.

02:08:16.792 --> 02:08:21.562
And as you say, connecting me to nature
because I'm there I am on my horse, so

02:08:21.562 --> 02:08:25.972
I might be doing some dressage thing or
something, but then I'm also looking up

02:08:25.972 --> 02:08:29.702
at the birds and I'm also noticing how the
clouds go across the sky and I'm thinking

02:08:29.702 --> 02:08:31.242
about the weather system that's coming in.

02:08:31.452 --> 02:08:34.002
And I'd be doing that if I was
walking on the land as well.

02:08:34.757 --> 02:08:37.347
I like to be on the horse,
so I'm more likely to be on

02:08:37.347 --> 02:08:38.417
the land if I'm on the horse.

02:08:38.877 --> 02:08:42.217
And it, then I'm going to notice
and notice and notice and notice

02:08:42.217 --> 02:08:46.687
and notice where the mice have gone
because they leave their trails in the,

02:08:47.517 --> 02:08:49.857
in the sand by the arena and so on.

02:08:50.037 --> 02:08:52.417
Then you're thinking mouse,
then you're thinking, you know,

02:08:52.527 --> 02:08:53.747
insect, then you're thinking.

02:08:54.247 --> 02:08:59.747
And it was, it was lovely the other
day we were quote unquote, working on.

02:09:00.862 --> 02:09:06.062
Something or other contact, I think, in
a workshop, and I noticed that several

02:09:06.112 --> 02:09:10.972
of the people's attention had strayed
as I was trying to explain something,

02:09:10.972 --> 02:09:13.452
and I looked, I said, what are you,
what are you looking at down there?

02:09:13.722 --> 02:09:15.682
They just found a very
early season bumblebee.

02:09:16.607 --> 02:09:20.077
Who was out, who'd come out
of hibernation a bit early,

02:09:20.087 --> 02:09:21.057
and they'd called her Barbara.

02:09:21.517 --> 02:09:24.217
And they were trying to, they
were trying to make sure that

02:09:24.217 --> 02:09:25.217
Barbara didn't get too cold.

02:09:25.267 --> 02:09:29.887
And I was like, this is absolutely
what we should be doing right now.

02:09:29.887 --> 02:09:31.477
Absolutely.

02:09:31.477 --> 02:09:33.327
You know, and you could see the
horses going, yeah, absolutely.

02:09:33.507 --> 02:09:34.347
You should go do that.

02:09:34.347 --> 02:09:35.197
We'll still be here.

02:09:36.307 --> 02:09:37.532
Go attend to that bee.

02:09:37.922 --> 02:09:40.932
And then suddenly there was all this
metaphor for what is contact, what is

02:09:40.932 --> 02:09:45.512
contact, contact is contact with the
planet, contact is, you know, and but, you

02:09:45.512 --> 02:09:48.922
know, in my, in a previous incarnation,
I might have gone, Oh, my gosh, these

02:09:48.922 --> 02:09:49.822
people are paying me to be here.

02:09:50.102 --> 02:09:52.962
I've got to deliver this,
you know, contact thing.

02:09:53.502 --> 02:09:53.942
And.

02:09:54.902 --> 02:09:58.562
Now it's much more, well, gosh, no,
this is what's happening right here.

02:09:59.132 --> 02:10:00.302
The horses have led us here.

02:10:00.362 --> 02:10:01.422
This is a wonderful thing.

02:10:01.882 --> 02:10:04.132
But really we're just playing.

02:10:04.152 --> 02:10:07.822
I feel that playfulness, you know, that
all the time that I've spent living with

02:10:08.062 --> 02:10:11.862
hunting and gathering cultures, which
is sort of the blueprint of humanity.

02:10:12.772 --> 02:10:14.392
It's a supremely playful.

02:10:14.882 --> 02:10:18.382
way of existing that they
don't talk about work.

02:10:19.162 --> 02:10:21.272
You know, we thought it
must be so hard to survive.

02:10:21.532 --> 02:10:21.852
Yes.

02:10:21.852 --> 02:10:23.062
If they've been kicked off their land.

02:10:23.062 --> 02:10:23.372
Yes.

02:10:23.372 --> 02:10:25.892
If their resources have
been depleted, sure.

02:10:26.032 --> 02:10:32.672
But if, if, if humans are in areas where
the resources are abundant, which is

02:10:32.672 --> 02:10:36.042
of course, the entire planet, really,
it's just that, you know, lack of,

02:10:36.082 --> 02:10:37.702
you know, scarcity has been created.

02:10:38.262 --> 02:10:41.912
The original affluent cultures,
you know, there is this time

02:10:42.842 --> 02:10:44.382
that we often associate with.

02:10:46.027 --> 02:10:51.687
material wealth, because material wealth
can buy one time, but then, of course,

02:10:51.687 --> 02:10:52.867
one has to go look after that wealth.

02:10:53.037 --> 02:10:56.617
And I suppose you could say
a hunter gatherer has to also

02:10:56.667 --> 02:10:59.787
conserve their environment, but
that, and that's very joyful work.

02:10:59.907 --> 02:11:00.377
Is it work?

02:11:00.427 --> 02:11:01.277
Is it even work?

02:11:01.547 --> 02:11:06.937
Why are we, you know, so we do,
are we really born to work or

02:11:06.937 --> 02:11:09.787
are we born to play and explore?

02:11:10.467 --> 02:11:11.487
Be in relationship.

02:11:11.597 --> 02:11:13.307
And that's about it.

02:11:13.867 --> 02:11:17.767
And I think you're what you said
is time itself is up for inquiry.

02:11:20.277 --> 02:11:22.047
Sort of brought those
things into focus for me.

02:11:22.047 --> 02:11:23.277
So I'm really grateful you said that.

02:11:27.977 --> 02:11:31.457
Kansas Carradine: Yeah, it's it's
the ongoing aspects and the layers.

02:11:31.467 --> 02:11:33.437
I think of perception as well.

02:11:34.817 --> 02:11:40.777
Continue to unfold and as the veils go
back and you know, there's different

02:11:40.777 --> 02:11:43.767
learnings that we'll have maybe had
20 years ago and then they come back

02:11:43.767 --> 02:11:45.047
and they teach you all over again.

02:11:45.047 --> 02:11:51.587
So, in that sense, time is, is
truly here always and really making

02:11:51.587 --> 02:11:58.027
a commitment to staying as present
as we can to not be stuck in those

02:11:58.037 --> 02:12:03.087
thoughts of future anticipation or
reactivity from past imprinting.

02:12:03.557 --> 02:12:08.307
It requires a certain amount of
awareness and, and in a way discipline

02:12:09.167 --> 02:12:13.497
because there's these well worn grooves
of, well, this is what I always do,

02:12:13.497 --> 02:12:14.967
or this is where I need to go down.

02:12:15.377 --> 02:12:17.307
This is where my thoughts naturally flow.

02:12:17.787 --> 02:12:19.207
And then to have that.

02:12:19.727 --> 02:12:23.187
Awareness and really stop
that before it starts again.

02:12:23.207 --> 02:12:29.807
We can go back to the horse interactions
where people eventually over time begin

02:12:29.807 --> 02:12:36.607
to notice what happens before the change
the signals of communication, whether

02:12:36.607 --> 02:12:38.757
it's if you're on the ground and you're.

02:12:39.217 --> 02:12:42.097
just getting ready to find out if you
have permission or consent to be able to

02:12:42.097 --> 02:12:47.407
catch a horse, just before there's the
acceptance or the actual big movement,

02:12:47.417 --> 02:12:52.017
there might be a breath or there might be
a change in the tension around the eye and

02:12:52.017 --> 02:12:56.557
starting to recognize all that, and then
we could argue that the imperceptible,

02:12:56.587 --> 02:12:59.207
that's just relying off of visual imagery.

02:12:59.867 --> 02:13:04.537
There's other things that are less
measurable and More of the subtle as

02:13:04.537 --> 02:13:08.807
opposed to the gross that are around
us all the time and that can only

02:13:08.807 --> 02:13:10.627
happen when we're really truly present.

02:13:14.417 --> 02:13:17.867
Rupert Isaacson: What comes through what
you're talking about, everything that

02:13:17.867 --> 02:13:23.287
you've described, and I've been writing
down, you know, apprenticeship, mentoring

02:13:23.617 --> 02:13:28.567
moving in with sitting at the feet of the
master, allowing oneself to be mentored.

02:13:28.937 --> 02:13:29.327
This is a.

02:13:29.857 --> 02:13:35.897
Difficult thing, you know, for a
lot of us service, what seems to be

02:13:35.897 --> 02:13:38.617
synthesized out of those words is joy.

02:13:39.307 --> 02:13:43.667
And it seems to me that, you know,
we talk about self actualization, you

02:13:43.667 --> 02:13:48.277
know, in this show, just that, that was
the theme, but really, what is that?

02:13:48.277 --> 02:13:49.557
But joy, what is that?

02:13:49.707 --> 02:13:54.387
But a joyful life, and it seems that
that is what you have been involved

02:13:54.387 --> 02:13:56.947
with really from the get go and that.

02:13:57.437 --> 02:14:02.217
Whatever, you know, dark nights of
the soul, you might have gone through

02:14:02.237 --> 02:14:07.617
from one incarnation to another
incarnation that seemed, you know,

02:14:07.627 --> 02:14:11.827
the bringing of joy, going back to
Kabbalah, going back to that thing you,

02:14:11.877 --> 02:14:14.607
you, you were bringing a palpable joy.

02:14:15.502 --> 02:14:19.892
Into those communities and it seems that
you have kept right on going with that.

02:14:19.902 --> 02:14:19.912
Mm

02:14:20.622 --> 02:14:21.022
Kansas Carradine: hmm.

02:14:21.352 --> 02:14:23.722
Well, like you mentioned,
there's an evolution with it.

02:14:24.132 --> 02:14:27.782
I would definitely say, and I mean,
I could do the Derby with joy.

02:14:28.442 --> 02:14:30.152
I had so much joy.

02:14:30.182 --> 02:14:34.312
It was, it was almost People were
teasing me because I would just be

02:14:34.642 --> 02:14:36.662
laughing my way through all of this.

02:14:36.662 --> 02:14:43.892
And, and It's because I met so many
parts of myself that were fractured

02:14:43.952 --> 02:14:48.822
and disharmonious and all of it really
had to do with either pleasing other

02:14:49.452 --> 02:14:52.622
or being worried about approval.

02:14:53.337 --> 02:14:58.757
The insecurity that comes with self
judgment and self criticism, which

02:14:58.757 --> 02:15:03.817
is why the thing that I find I can
really help and be of service to teach

02:15:04.217 --> 02:15:10.887
is to help let go of our judgments of
ourselves and to be more compassionate

02:15:11.537 --> 02:15:14.027
to our fellow earth travelers.

02:15:15.612 --> 02:15:19.612
Rupert Isaacson: The travel aspect there,
you know, that's I was just flapping

02:15:19.612 --> 02:15:22.762
my hands for the listeners that can't
see and I did a little clappy thing.

02:15:23.092 --> 02:15:27.062
So I got excited what you were saying
that the reason I got excited was,

02:15:27.062 --> 02:15:30.202
you know, as you were describing your
journey across Patagonia, of course, what

02:15:30.212 --> 02:15:31.912
that sounds to me like is pilgrimage.

02:15:33.107 --> 02:15:43.617
And I am more and more of the conviction
that, because we are hunter gatherer

02:15:44.037 --> 02:15:47.367
people, we're not necessarily nomads
in that, hunter gatherers are more

02:15:47.367 --> 02:15:52.997
circular nomads, they tend to, as you
know, occupy different hunting and

02:15:52.997 --> 02:15:58.347
gathering camps in a sort of a circular,
seasonal round rather than a, you

02:15:58.347 --> 02:16:01.987
know, we just sort of wander aimlessly
at will, that people misunderstand

02:16:01.987 --> 02:16:04.447
I think what nomadism is, but.

02:16:05.487 --> 02:16:14.207
Nonetheless, it's deeply rooted in us to
move over the land in deep relationship

02:16:14.277 --> 02:16:22.487
with it and It sounds like very much
that's what you did down there and that

02:16:22.517 --> 02:16:27.167
I think it's very hard to be a joyful
human if you're not doing that and you

02:16:27.197 --> 02:16:28.697
don't have to go as far as Patagonia.

02:16:28.697 --> 02:16:31.717
You don't have to do the Mongolia
thing that I did or whatever.

02:16:31.737 --> 02:16:33.427
You don't have to do that at all.

02:16:33.437 --> 02:16:35.247
It can be very much in the backyard.

02:16:35.277 --> 02:16:38.127
You can, you can go up in Santa
Monica mountains right now.

02:16:38.127 --> 02:16:39.777
You can go walk along the beach.

02:16:40.057 --> 02:16:43.727
You could do, you could go to your local,
you know, if you're sitting in England.

02:16:44.497 --> 02:16:49.477
You can go walk the Ridgeway, the ancient
chalk track going across the, the Connect

02:16:49.477 --> 02:16:51.457
Stonehenge and all of these other things.

02:16:51.637 --> 02:16:53.827
You can, you, you know, you can
drive there and take a train

02:16:53.827 --> 02:16:56.677
there and walk up there and walk
it for half an hour, you know?

02:16:57.177 --> 02:16:57.297
Mm-hmm.

02:16:57.737 --> 02:17:00.857
The connection with the ancestors
that, that, that the, the earth

02:17:00.887 --> 02:17:02.417
is the bones of our ancestors.

02:17:02.417 --> 02:17:06.617
It's the dust of, it's the actually died
there and they actually composed of them.

02:17:07.227 --> 02:17:13.237
And of course any indigenous person would
say, well, yeah, of course we divorced

02:17:13.237 --> 02:17:14.587
ourselves from that in our culture.

02:17:14.587 --> 02:17:15.727
So I think.

02:17:17.137 --> 02:17:22.467
You know, when I was groping for
what's the value of going into

02:17:22.467 --> 02:17:25.007
something like the, the, the Derby?

02:17:25.047 --> 02:17:29.117
Well, of course, you, you pilgrimage,
you pilgrimage to another area,

02:17:30.037 --> 02:17:36.197
one of the last intact ecosystems,
wild areas of the planet that could

02:17:36.287 --> 02:17:38.997
sure use our attention and help.

02:17:39.097 --> 02:17:42.717
And by pilgrimaging there,
you'll go into service to it.

02:17:43.367 --> 02:17:46.187
Kansas Carradine: So, yeah,
I want to say one thing too.

02:17:46.237 --> 02:17:51.397
I'm so glad that you brought that forward
that when I was down there, it also gave

02:17:51.397 --> 02:17:55.767
me a huge appreciation for what is in
my homeland from my particular place

02:17:55.767 --> 02:17:58.537
where I was set down on this planet.

02:17:58.577 --> 02:18:00.117
This is Turtle Island here.

02:18:01.027 --> 02:18:05.277
I'm currently in an area that is
unceded land of the Paiute and Washoe

02:18:05.287 --> 02:18:10.207
people, and every time I began my
online courses or in person clinics

02:18:10.237 --> 02:18:12.097
we give a land acknowledgement.

02:18:12.797 --> 02:18:20.257
So the connection to where you are
right now on the planet is Everything

02:18:20.477 --> 02:18:23.957
you don't have to go outside of
yourself or outside of your own city.

02:18:24.287 --> 02:18:28.567
And part of the beauty of when I was
traveling for work in all of these

02:18:28.567 --> 02:18:34.257
different in urban areas is it helped
me find the connection to nature in a

02:18:34.257 --> 02:18:39.207
city car park in the busyness of, you
know, the bus transit and all of that, we

02:18:39.207 --> 02:18:41.417
don't have to only be in national parks.

02:18:41.697 --> 02:18:44.307
It's a wonderful thing when we have
the opportunity, cause it gives us.

02:18:44.542 --> 02:18:50.702
different expanded idea of divinity,
but those same trunks that when I was a

02:18:50.702 --> 02:18:53.862
little girl were that were so captivating.

02:18:54.262 --> 02:18:58.482
Those are present in many different
urban environments as well.

02:18:58.482 --> 02:18:58.813
Yeah.

02:18:58.813 --> 02:18:59.475
How are

02:18:59.475 --> 02:19:00.469
Rupert Isaacson: the pigeons flying?

02:19:00.469 --> 02:19:02.202
How are the raccoons?

02:19:03.607 --> 02:19:05.767
Flipping across your view
at night as you drive.

02:19:05.827 --> 02:19:06.147
Absolutely.

02:19:06.517 --> 02:19:06.907
Absolutely.

02:19:07.767 --> 02:19:11.047
Kansas Carradine: How a dandelion
can push through the concrete and has

02:19:11.067 --> 02:19:13.187
no recollection of being oppressed.

02:19:13.927 --> 02:19:15.477
It just reaches the sun.

02:19:15.937 --> 02:19:16.207
Rupert Isaacson: It's just.

02:19:16.497 --> 02:19:18.417
And if it does get
oppressed, it doesn't care.

02:19:18.417 --> 02:19:19.327
It comes up again.

02:19:19.327 --> 02:19:20.407
Yeah.

02:19:20.587 --> 02:19:20.957
Yeah.

02:19:21.047 --> 02:19:21.297
Yeah.

02:19:21.297 --> 02:19:21.987
Exactly.

02:19:21.987 --> 02:19:23.487
Exactly.

02:19:23.767 --> 02:19:24.647
Kansas has been brilliant.

02:19:24.657 --> 02:19:29.087
Look, I think we should draw it to a close
here, but I, if you would, I would like

02:19:29.087 --> 02:19:33.197
you to come back on, 'cause there's quite
a few things more I'd like to ask you

02:19:33.837 --> 02:19:37.327
around your work for people to find you.

02:19:37.327 --> 02:19:40.297
What are the resources if people
want to study with you, if people

02:19:40.302 --> 02:19:42.997
want to do things, can you reel
off the websites and emails

02:19:42.997 --> 02:19:43.447
Kansas Carradine: please?

02:19:44.257 --> 02:19:45.487
Certainly, yes.

02:19:45.487 --> 02:19:49.947
So circus cowgirl.com has the
best way to contact me, then

02:19:50.242 --> 02:19:52.322
circus and then cowgirl Circus.

02:19:53.057 --> 02:19:53.737
cowgirl.

02:19:54.017 --> 02:19:54.377
com.

02:19:54.857 --> 02:19:58.267
And there's also a Circus Cowgirl
Facebook page now, which is

02:19:58.687 --> 02:20:00.437
my sojourn into social media.

02:20:01.047 --> 02:20:08.677
And I'm always available for one to one
on one communication because for me,

02:20:08.677 --> 02:20:13.567
what I believe is that the interaction,
like you and I are having the live

02:20:13.567 --> 02:20:18.537
interaction is, you know, it's like a
lot of the courses that I do, I don't

02:20:18.547 --> 02:20:22.727
like to record them because I feel like
it can be taken flippantly or we can.

02:20:23.607 --> 02:20:27.447
listen to the recording without the same
amount of attention that we do in presence

02:20:27.787 --> 02:20:29.977
than when we are live interaction.

02:20:30.817 --> 02:20:35.647
So being able to have that reach out,
ask me a question, ask me anything, I

02:20:35.647 --> 02:20:39.837
really like to be available for both
private one on one coaching or coming out

02:20:39.857 --> 02:20:41.577
in person and doing an in person clinic.

02:20:42.347 --> 02:20:45.167
Rupert Isaacson: And that, you can
be people, if they want to learn more

02:20:45.167 --> 02:20:49.007
about heart math, if they want to learn
more about the again, give it the name.

02:20:49.007 --> 02:20:49.917
Fiera Foundation.

02:20:50.527 --> 02:20:50.937
Kansas Carradine: One more time.

02:20:50.937 --> 02:20:52.037
The Fiera Foundation.

02:20:52.087 --> 02:20:53.197
F Y E R A.

02:20:53.197 --> 02:20:53.757
Fiera.

02:20:53.757 --> 02:20:54.977
Fiera Foundation.

02:20:55.637 --> 02:20:56.127
Absolutely.

02:20:56.357 --> 02:20:57.217
Please spell it again.

02:20:58.057 --> 02:20:59.312
F Y E R A.

02:20:59.952 --> 02:21:02.802
ERA Fiera

02:21:03.387 --> 02:21:04.562
Rupert Isaacson: Fiera Foundation.

02:21:06.177 --> 02:21:08.672
Kansas Carradine: And if they
want, and it's fiera.org.

02:21:09.097 --> 02:21:09.317
Dot

02:21:09.317 --> 02:21:09.517
Rupert Isaacson: org.

02:21:09.887 --> 02:21:11.317
Fiera do org.

02:21:11.582 --> 02:21:15.552
F-Y-E-R-A, HeartMath Institute.

02:21:15.552 --> 02:21:16.932
People want to know more about that.

02:21:16.932 --> 02:21:17.592
Where do they go?

02:21:18.822 --> 02:21:22.392
Kansas Carradine: That's also
heartmath.com or heartmath.org.

02:21:22.422 --> 02:21:28.372
There's tons of resources, peer reviewed
research articles free educational

02:21:28.372 --> 02:21:30.562
material, as well as the more.

02:21:32.892 --> 02:21:37.682
embodied courses for certification
that are all available through there.

02:21:38.102 --> 02:21:38.562
Rupert Isaacson: Okay.

02:21:39.032 --> 02:21:39.352
Yes.

02:21:39.872 --> 02:21:43.412
And then obviously Skyhorse Academy for

02:21:43.762 --> 02:21:44.042
Kansas Carradine: Arianna.

02:21:44.042 --> 02:21:46.922
Mentorship with Arianna Mazzucchi.

02:21:47.142 --> 02:21:48.672
Yes, absolutely.

02:21:48.732 --> 02:21:49.352
Skyhorse

02:21:49.352 --> 02:21:49.782
Rupert Isaacson: Academy.

02:21:50.132 --> 02:21:50.952
Skyhorse Academy.

02:21:51.192 --> 02:21:55.122
And then if people want to email you
and set something up with you, they

02:21:55.122 --> 02:21:56.862
can, they can just, there's an email on.

02:21:57.507 --> 02:21:58.397
circuscowgirl.

02:21:58.397 --> 02:21:58.667
com.

02:21:59.447 --> 02:22:01.697
Kansas Carradine: Yes, you can
contact me through the website.

02:22:01.807 --> 02:22:02.797
That's the easiest way.

02:22:03.057 --> 02:22:06.267
Or you can also just send me an
email at info at circuscowgirl.

02:22:07.067 --> 02:22:07.147
Rupert Isaacson: com.

02:22:07.207 --> 02:22:09.087
info at circuscowgirl.

02:22:09.087 --> 02:22:12.692
com.

02:22:14.602 --> 02:22:15.332
Kansas Carradine: Yes.

02:22:15.382 --> 02:22:16.602
Thank you so much, Robert.

02:22:16.692 --> 02:22:19.382
It's been over a decade.

02:22:19.572 --> 02:22:23.192
This, this conversation has
been percolating in the field.

02:22:23.342 --> 02:22:24.002
Rupert Isaacson: No kidding.

02:22:24.312 --> 02:22:27.022
I mean, when I first met you there,
there was no Horseboy Method.

02:22:27.022 --> 02:22:31.962
I was just, I just published the book
and Made the film about being in Mongolia

02:22:31.962 --> 02:22:35.842
with my son and I didn't know that it
was going to take off in this way and

02:22:35.842 --> 02:22:39.712
that we were going to create an equine.

02:22:39.842 --> 02:22:44.202
Yeah, I, I, I knew that I wanted to
give back and I knew that I was going

02:22:44.202 --> 02:22:49.822
to create a place where I could offer
other families and kids the same

02:22:50.812 --> 02:22:53.562
chance for the magic that my son had.

02:22:54.187 --> 02:22:59.277
Found but I didn't know it would do what
it did and I remember with you I could

02:22:59.277 --> 02:23:02.467
tell at the time that you were also in
a slightly liminal place I think you

02:23:02.467 --> 02:23:08.367
were you were at that you had you'd
recently left Cavalia and you were Looking

02:23:08.437 --> 02:23:10.287
towards where you were going to go next.

02:23:10.287 --> 02:23:14.557
It's Extraordinary now to meet
you say well, you've been up

02:23:14.567 --> 02:23:15.967
to some busy shit, haven't you?

02:23:18.187 --> 02:23:20.147
And it's joyful shit

02:23:22.052 --> 02:23:23.402
Kansas Carradine: It is a lot of joy.

02:23:23.412 --> 02:23:27.272
Yeah, letting go of our shit and looking
at our shit and shoveling shit, they're

02:23:27.272 --> 02:23:30.092
all wonderful ways to cultivate more joy.

02:23:30.692 --> 02:23:31.102
That's true.

02:23:31.112 --> 02:23:31.152
A few

02:23:31.192 --> 02:23:32.592
Rupert Isaacson: diapers
along the way, yep.

02:23:33.432 --> 02:23:34.402
Kansas Carradine: Oh, plenty of those.

02:23:34.472 --> 02:23:38.282
Lots of, especially for, yeah,
cloth nappies in my world.

02:23:39.007 --> 02:23:39.477
Well, yes,

02:23:39.497 --> 02:23:42.897
Rupert Isaacson: that's hardcore.

02:23:42.977 --> 02:23:44.827
That's a podcast in and of itself.

02:23:45.377 --> 02:23:45.797
All right.

02:23:45.797 --> 02:23:47.367
Well, listen, thank you again.

02:23:47.697 --> 02:23:51.317
If it's all right with you, I'll
be in touch about going further

02:23:51.317 --> 02:23:52.457
into some of these themes.

02:23:52.817 --> 02:23:56.277
And I don't know if you know, we
also have another, another podcast

02:23:56.337 --> 02:23:57.517
called Equine Assisted World.

02:23:58.207 --> 02:24:03.177
So perhaps you could come on that
and talk much more in depth about

02:24:03.247 --> 02:24:06.867
the actual therapies and equine
assistive work that you're doing and

02:24:07.117 --> 02:24:09.337
others that we should be aware of.

02:24:09.567 --> 02:24:13.777
I'll be in touch about that shortly,
probably as soon as I click end.

02:24:14.792 --> 02:24:15.322
Kansas Carradine: Okay.

02:24:15.362 --> 02:24:16.272
Yeah, no problem.

02:24:16.272 --> 02:24:20.752
And thank you for all the service that
you're doing and sharing these ideas and

02:24:20.752 --> 02:24:24.312
disseminating information and holding
the resonance that you do for the field.

02:24:24.482 --> 02:24:25.072
It's wonderful.

02:24:25.292 --> 02:24:25.832
Rupert Isaacson: Thank you.

02:24:25.842 --> 02:24:30.022
It's a, it's a conversation I think
we all have benefited from and

02:24:30.032 --> 02:24:31.662
want other people to benefit from.

02:24:31.702 --> 02:24:34.262
So, you know, it keeps it live.

02:24:34.862 --> 02:24:38.462
All right, then I'm going to
hit this dreaded red button.

02:24:38.462 --> 02:24:41.082
Is there anything before I hit
the dreaded red button that you?

02:24:41.597 --> 02:24:43.667
Feel that we didn't say
that you'd like to say.

02:24:44.497 --> 02:24:46.227
Kansas Carradine: Oh, I'm so
grateful for the time that we've

02:24:46.227 --> 02:24:49.977
had and I know that we'll find many
more things to discuss next time.

02:24:50.437 --> 02:24:50.827
Rupert Isaacson: I'm grateful too.

02:24:51.567 --> 02:24:54.367
Gratitude is actually what I'd
like to talk about on the next one.

02:24:54.537 --> 02:24:55.647
So awesome.

02:24:56.127 --> 02:24:56.617
All right.

02:24:56.795 --> 02:24:57.905
Thank you for joining us.

02:24:57.935 --> 02:24:59.765
We hope you enjoyed today's podcast.

02:25:00.003 --> 02:25:05.043
Join our website, new trails
learning.com, to  check out our online

02:25:05.043 --> 02:25:10.233
courses and live workshops in Horse Boy
Method, movement Method, and Athena.

02:25:10.941 --> 02:25:15.589
These evidence-based programs have
helped children, veterans, and people

02:25:15.589 --> 02:25:17.599
dealing with trauma around the world.

02:25:17.926 --> 02:25:21.676
We also offer a horse training
program and self-care program

02:25:21.676 --> 02:25:24.916
for riders on long ride home.com.

02:25:25.215 --> 02:25:29.265
These include easy to do online
courses and tutorials that

02:25:29.265 --> 02:25:31.185
bring you and your horse joy.

02:25:31.721 --> 02:25:36.281
For an overview of all shows and
programs, go to rupert isaacson.com.

02:25:36.611 --> 02:25:37.541
See you on the next show.

02:25:37.954 --> 02:25:40.644
And please remember to
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